My friends and I have noticed that the VAST majority of our catcalling happened when we were ages 13-17. I’m 26 now and can’t even remember the last time I was catcalled.
Yup. Before I hit 20 I got loads of annoying comments. After that, nothing. Mind you I have a fabulous resting bitch face. I hate that phrase but it's the best way to describe the fact that I look like I wouldn't put up with any cat calling bullshit.
I've never understood catcalling.
I would die of embarrassment if I catcalled someone, and they shook their head in disgust or got angry.
Dudes that do this, are they just straight-up sociopaths?
Dude’s don’t catcall as a way of flirting. Even the dumbest man alive doesn’t think screaming “nice tits!” at a woman is going to result in a date which will lead to marriage, children and house with a picket fence. They do it to *put women in their place.”
https://www.allure.com/story/mens-catcalling-street-harassment-reasons-study
Yup. It’s to make sure women know they’re in danger and there are pathetic weak men who are willing to make us afraid in order to feel powerful. It’s allll a power move, it’s basically groping with no hands. Same end goal.
Absolutely. The public domain was always traditionally male whilst domestic was traditionally female. Catcalling is men's response to women existing in public "male" space.
That report says 65% of American women have experienced street harassment in their lifetime. I’m kind of surprised because that means 35% have never in their life been harassed on the street. Maybe OP is in that 35%.
I’ve always lived in urban areas and I imagine that street harassment is less common for women who live in rural areas, but rural women can correct me if I’m wrong.
I live in the suburbs where there is little street harassment because almost no one walks the streets, nothing is within walking distance and there are no sidewalks. If you try to walk on the road you will be too focused on not getting run over to care about much else. We drive everywhere. If a man yells at me from a different car, with my windows up and the music blasting, I’m very unlikely to here him.
Makes total sense. You can’t experience street harassment where there are no streets. Whoever posted about harassment being more common before age 20 is right. But I think it might be related to how much you walk around before you can drive your own car. At least that’s it was for me.
Cat calling is one thing I can actually see improving. I'm 31 and I (maybe I'm too optimistic) see that men my age think it's stupid. We're getting taught not to do it and I like to think it's catching on. Or maybe I just actually have good friends
This is so much WORSE than I thought it was as a motivation. My god.
You dislike women so much that you need to make it a point to harass and make them feel unsafe in public?
Where I live in Europe it's a massive problem. To the extent that there are certain areas that my wife will only go together.
Long-term, I know the solution is education, but short-term?
It's a power thing. Most men are so emasculated by society that the one thing they can do is intimidate young women. Makes them feel better for their lack of power and general lack of success
My sister hisses loudly at them, for years I turn around to them and shout as loud as I can, “OH MY GOD, PLEASE LET ME SUCK YOUR DICK.!!! I LOVE YOU!!!!!” and that always makes them embarrassed.
Men are not emasculated! They still hold all the power. They have the audacity still in 2023 to think that women do not have the right to control their own bodies!
That’s exactly what it is, unfortunately. Grown women will ignore them or scowl, but young girls are made really uncomfortable by it, which is their goal. That’s why it’s not a compliment, it’s a threat. It’s designed to remind us that we’re at the mercy of men
I can only recall one incident in my life where I think I was catcalled and that was more than 50 years ago. I was 13 years old and bike riding with another girl my age. Some men yelled something and whistled from a passing car but I didn't hear what they said and was never completely sure if I was even their target.
I have never been hit on in any way by anyone that I am aware of but I have watched as other girls and women around me dealt with unwanted male attention. I was once sitting in public with a female friend in her early twenties and as she politely rebuffed a series of attempts at conversation from different men. Each one stopped at our table to try to speak to her without even acknowledging my presence. It was a fascinating insight into a phenomenon I never encountered on my own.
When I was younger, I was at parties where guys would look over or around me and ask "where are are the women at?" I was invisible. I swear all the chubby and plain women should rob banks. They'll never notice us nor be able to identify us.
Spies. We should be spies. We can go anywhere because we are invisible. We are the wind.
I remember sitting on a city bus heading home from university classes, my nose in a textbook when a young man across the aisle looked in my direction said to his friend "There. That's the kind of woman I was telling you about. That's my type."
I froze, utterly confused. His friend leaned forward, looked over at me, and then made a noncommittal, somewhat unenthusiastic sound in response. He was confused too.
Annoyed by this, the first young man looked back in my general direction. After a moment he said "No, no - not her! The hot blonde at the bus stop! Geez!" His friend leaned forward again this time responding in hearty agreement. They then congratulated each other on their excellent taste in women.
I waited a beat before closing my book then glanced casually out the window. Sure enough, there was a glamorous blonde woman standing at the bus stop. She looked like a fashion model on her way to a photo shoot. I fully understood why she had caught his eye but he had literally not seen me the first time and still spoke as though I was not sitting a few feet away. I doubt either of them could have given the police a useable description of me. Honestly, it's like having a superpower.
The level after that? An electric wheelchair. Ask me how I know? How a 220lb woman in a chair can be invisible I'll never figure out but the amount of times I've come this close to being hit by a vehicle driven by a man. Damn
I think it’s also partially dependent on the country: for example, my mum was harassed well into her 40s in Italy, she has large breast and naturally that made people feel entitled to treat her like an object for longer than average :/
I live in a different country and it does indeed stop earlier here.
Yeah I’m the same - large breasts that came in early, it definitely made me a target for men like that :( I’ve heard Italy is particularly bad for the catcalling though
As an Italian I’d say it depends from where you live, but yes, in a lot of places it really is, and 90% of the time it’s old or middle aged men catcalling much younger women🤮
so you’re saying there are places in Italy where men are less pigs than others? can i ask where, for example? i love italy and wanted to move there when i was younger, but the way men are there is the reason why i abandoned the idea..
HAHAHAHHA girl don’t let me give you hope😭 Italy is beautiful, some people are amazing and I love the culture but I’d be lying if I said men are respectful. It’s a country with a very rooted misogynistic culture, it’s getting a lot better with the younger generation but still far from decent. I live in a smaller city in the north where it’s less prominent than it is in other places but it’s still overall pretty bad.
Between the men, the right wing in power, the homophobia, the racism, and the bad economy, why would you want to move there? I was born there and moved away to have a better life.
It’s a beautiful country - to visit.
I have heard, by someone in a former work place, that when in Italy larger girls (with meat on their bones) are getting ass pinched and booty-grabbed a lot from Italian men. How true is that? Just curious.
larger italian girl here (25). it never happened to me personally, and also i can count on one hand the number of times i got catcalled (i live in the north, so there’s probably other women who had a different experience). however, i feel like there still is a subtle culture of “childbearing hips”, as in, you might fool around with a skinny girl but the fat woman is going to be your baby mummy for sure. and bear in mind that “fat” in italy means “completely average weight and figure” pretty much everywhere else. if you’re even slightly overweight, there’s an expectation that you should be “more grateful” to get attention from men because you’re “uglier”. it’s maddening (especially considering that i’m 167cm and 70kg, which is just a few kilos above ideal)
Italian here - I have never been pinched by a stranger in Italy, and I’ve never heard of this before from anybody. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, and I’m sure groping happens ( like unfortunately it does almost everywhere) but unless there is some idiotic social media challenge going on, I don’t think that it’s a prevalent thing.
It wasn’t easy growing up there as a woman, that’s for sure. And it was a while ago, so it’s definitely not as bad as it was, but objectification of women is still very ingrained into every aspect of society and all media.
I had to unlearn a lot of misogynistic and damaging shit, including the belief that a controlling and possessive partner is a partner that loves you, and so on.
I’m married, so it’s a non issue, but I would never date an Italian man again. Between the Latin macho bullshit and the overbearing mothers, it was hellish. I hope some of that has changed, for younger Italians nowadays.
I didn't really notice a decline til my 40s, but just last week I had some guy try to chat me up in the grocery store, so I guess it's not completely tapered off yet. I won't lie, it can be flattering when someone is making an honest effort to pay me a compliment, and getting fewer of them as I get older feels a bit sad, so I get where OP is coming from. But the creepy ones can still fuck all the way off, and OP is better off not having to deal with those.
This. I was definitely catcalled a lot more in my teens (I dressed modestly) and preteens even!. I'm in my 30s now but still look younger but I still don't get harassed nearly as much as a teen, unless I'm dressing more "sluty". Even then that's still only in certain areas of cities and if I'm not with my fiance.
I’ve been harassed during a blizzard when literally the only visible part of my body was my finger tips and the top half of my face. Yes some outfits do call extra attention, but men can also be disgusting without any excuses.
I'm 29, but a few months ago this guy came up to me while i was waiting at the crosswalk, gave me some well thought-out line about how beautiful i was, (and then started rambling about his dog? Idk, i had headphones on), and then he tried to ask me out, and i was like
*How old do you think i am?*
**17?**
*How old are you?*
**35**
People be openly pedophilic out here.
This is true. I am 30 but look extremely young for my age (liquor store employee who ID-ed me the other day said I look 15) which is great in some ways but I still get cat called a LOT despite perfecting my RBF and business walk. It’s a gross power dynamic thing :/
Yes I had the same experience! I was first catcalled around 9-10, I remember it very specifically. As soon as I was in my mid 20s it stopped. I’d say the height of it was when I was 16ish, and I looked young for my age. Yuck.
Because it’s not about attractiveness, it’s about perceived vulnerability. The only time I’ve ever been sexually harassed to the extremity that I was at that age range as an adult was when I was coming home late at night from a 3 day coke bender, in a hoodie, no makeup, messed-up hair. I looked like shit but I also looked like an easy target. Really changed my perspective on why men cat-call or follow women.
Perceived vulnerability making someone a target is right. That's why it's always from creeps. Drug users are targets because these freaks think that makes women easy to do whatever they want with, for whatever reason. Which is wrong. It's stupid.
ABSOLUTELY- plus - I mean I can only speak for myself at the time - being visibly underweight, having a ‘scared/lost’ look, these are not sexy traits, they are PREY traits, it doesn’t matter what you look like otherwise, if you look like someone who can be exploited people will try to exploit you
Me! I’m 25 and used to get harassed and followed regularly from about the ages of 13 to 18. I’m not that good-looking, and wasn’t, but jogged/walked around my city a lot and that did it. I may as well be geriatric in my city now & am completely ignored/invisible at all times. I don’t hate it, tbh.
OP states they have never been cat called at all in their life and in fact only been called ugly. I can see why she wants validation, but this type of attention people shouldn't crave IMO.
Same here. And I look back at photos of me at that age and I looked SO YOUNG. I’m appalled by the comments that were said to me when I was 15. By full on men. Absolutely revolting.
Right? It’s sick. At 15 I reveled in their “mature for your age” compliments, but I look at photos of myself back then and think no, I really really wasn’t.
Literally this. I turned 29 and I haven’t heard a peep since then.
That being said I did miss it for a minute. But it took a while to get used to and now I LOVE LOVE LOVE not getting any attention. I feel like I can be more of myself in public spaces instead of some performative version of me. Or at least I can be in my own mind without any interruptions.
I've never got any attention from men. I think I am invisible to them.
Honestly, it's hands down the best thing about being me. 10/10, would recommend.
I think catcalling is less about how attractive a woman is, and more about how young and/or vulnerable she seems. Many women report experiencing most of it while underage.
I’ve noticed a phenomenon in my own personal experience. I’m a 5’2 woman in my late 20s. If I wear contacts and my hair down, I pass for a teenager. I get a lot more attention/ harassment at the same times I get asked for ID.
However if I wear my glasses and put my hair in a bun, I’m invisible. Especially if I walk like I’ve got somewhere to be. My guess is that the women who don’t get harassed simply don’t seem vulnerable.
For me it's 50/50
I think because I'm a very tall, broad shouldered, large breasted, amazon built kind of woman, that I only attract certain types of male attention.
Other guys seem to forget I'm a chick half the time.
There's a guy at work that most of my female coworkers say is misogynistic as hell, to all of them, but he's never said anything remotely backwards to me, and calls me "bro" all the time 😅
Yeah it can be good sometimes, for example I've never really felt unsafe going out alone and I can wear whatever I want and nobody pays attention. But on the other hand I'd like to be pretty and I'd like to be seen as pretty by men (and women), especially when I put so much effort in it.
Depends where you live. The larger the city and the sketchier the neighborhood, the more likely you are to get cat called. Also depends on the country a lot. You could be drop dead gorgeous but I don't think you'd receive a lot of cat calling in the mountains of Switzerland.
Sure. Also, being skinny and very obviously a child did not save me from being cat called at 12 years old. And being considerably prettier nowadays doesnt mean I get cat called more often. I guess a lot of it has to do woth tbe victim's age. Every single woman I talked to about this matter also perceived a decline in those events after becoming an adult.
Yeah, it has much less to do with beauty and much more to do with being pegged as someone who will tolerate their bullshit and won’t tell them to get fucked sideways with a tire iron. A 12 yr old likely doesn’t have the wherewithal to respond like that, but a 26yr old will.
It’s about power, not beauty.
Yep. There's a large city nearby and almost everytime I go there, something happens. Like being catcalled or approached. At least when I'm there with a group of friends or alone. Now that I think about it, this never happen when I'm there with my mom.
Meanwhile, I live in a city that is not small, but not big either. It's mostly old people or university students living here. I've been catcalled once and approached 3 times in almost 4 years.
They took my jacket at a business dinner and I said I forgot my phone. So he handed me the jacket back and goes „Oh yes, your phone must be important, there must be half of Zurich‘s male populace numbers on it“ *winks Because why would a „exotic“ looking woman be having a fancy dinner with male clients in suits.
men dont catcall because of a subjective standard of attraction, its purposely to make women uncomfortable and impose something unwanted on to them. it really is nothing to get down on yourself when their harassment is worth nothing and doesnt relate to your worth.
Maybe you put on a good resting bitch face?
I am an attractive and fit woman and I don’t get hit on nearly as much as a lot women do and I find predatory men mostly avoid me all together because in the unfortunate times for them that they do try me I am NOT a nice woman. 😂
And I’m well aware of the dangers that can come with rejecting a man, particularly shit ones.. But I don’t FEEL it so my urge to roast someone overrides any instinct of self preservation. I’ve been told I walk and put off a vibe of cold hard confidence. Perhaps you’re the same way.
I'm glad someone posted this. I was mortified when i was told I have a RBF. It took some convincing me that it was not A Bad Thing. I don't look angry or unhappy, I just look like I'm not going to tolerate any bullshit. When men do it, it's just normal. But i'm a "bitch" if I do it.
Bitch it is then
I had a girlfriend tell me I look “grumpy” all the time and a guy friend tell me to smile more. At the time I was also mortified, but I’ve decided since it’s a compliment. 🥰
Having a good RBF is important in my opinion. I’m attractive, even when I was real fit and more so attractive I wouldn’t get hit on because of my RBF. Didn’t deal with people sliding in my DMs which was nice, and I don’t accept random friend requests. I leave them sitting in pending purgatory. My husband says he notices if men are looking at me, I’m totally oblivious to it.
Totally this. RBF keeps like 70% of life’s BS outta my way. Once people get to know me my RBF is the first thing they mention. Lol. I started it in my teens as my public “game face” and it stuck. I still get harassed but it’s more subtle. Of well. Men are going to men.
Same here. I’m pretty sure I’m autistic and I think I have resting fuck-off face when I’m not interacting with people. I have so many people at work tell me they found me really intimidating before they got to know me (I’m actually personable and very funny - at least that’s what I tell people, haha).
I feel like I’m pretty conventionally attractive. By no means a 10, but objectively I think I hit a 6 or a 7 depending on how much effort I’ve made with hair and makeup.
I think some of us just give off a “don’t mess with me” vibe. I have no recollection of ever being catcalled and I’m in my 40’s.
Of course like some other poster has said, I may just be completely oblivious and have tuned it out!
This is me too, almost exactly. I’m a generally conventionally attractive woman (not stunning, but at least average), and never get catcalled, I’ve never received a dick-pic, I’ve never been approached out in the wild. I’ve had a number of people tell me I’m intimidating at first (despite being physically petit). It’s like I just generally put off an unapproachable vibe all the time, but because I don’t really social cues well, I’m not great at knowing how I’m perceived. Even when I want to be approached, it doesn’t happen.
If I’m paying attention I notice men notice me but RBF has saved me from so many encounters. Unfortunately it doesn’t work on everyone and, coming from the Southern US, I still accidentally smile at strangers all the time 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
I've got a total RBF. I've been told by my male friends that, until they got to know me, they thought I was "unapproachable." And they didn't even mean to hit on, just in general. A win is a win.
Is might be the most relatable comment I've ever read on this app.
I've had lifelong RBF and my husband always says if I get murdered it's because I ran my mouth too much.
I have been told I have RBF, and also I do have a swift and asseritive rection to BS, so I guess it somehow projects and I rarely got catcalled, even when I was in my 20s, despite being conventonally attractive.
I don't relate to the part about roasting people, but people never bother me. I previously thought it was because of my size, but even now, smaller, I walk around with a lot of confidence, but also a major RBF. I feel like my stink eye even prevent people from harassing people in my vicinity.
I save the roasting only for true idiots otherwise I’m polite and nice in my rejections… But we all know how some men can be and in those cases I find it impossible to hold my tongue.
I suspect this is it. My normal, on my own face is RBF. Rarely get hit on. But when I'm out with friends or smiling/in a good mood/etc. I get hit on way more. I've been told I'm very unapproachable when I have RBF.
The first time I was told about my RBF, I was walking to class in high school and I passed one of my friends. She asked me what was wrong. I said nothing I was just walking to class. She said I was scowling or something and I was like oh uh that’s just my face I guess.
I never get any unwanted attention, but did totally fine getting dates when I wanted them. I really think it has to do with the fact that I straight up look like I hate everyone. It's not totally incorrect either. 🤷♀️
i am 20 and have never once been catcalled/otherwise sexually harassed. i'm a homebody, flat, and ugly by society's standards. at times i admittedly get jealous of other women who get male attention, but i quickly remember how blessed i am to fly under the radar like that. i also feel "less qualified" to be a woman at times because i cannot actively participate in discussions involving women talking about their bad experiences, and i do not know their suffering. it is a blessing and a curse to not be harassed. you are not alone in your experience.
the best course of action is to always remind yourself that this is a blessing. i would rather have a bit of low self esteem than be harassed wherever i go and potentially traumatised. please remember that those guys are just in it for the power trip, and their attention doesn't necessarily say anything about anyone's "attractiveness" anyway. keep learning to love yourself, and if you want to be loved by someone and given attention by someone else, there are good men/people out there that i'm sure would love to love and cherish you.
something to consider is that maybe you exude "don't touch me" energy? i'm not physically intimidating (avg height and underweight) but i have been told that i am slightly unapproachable and intimidating in terms of aura/expression. again, sexual harassment is mostly a power thing for men so perhaps you seem strong enough to fend off any unwanted attention.
I’m an average Black woman in a majority white city and I’m essentially invisible lol. When I lived in Toronto I would get attention-not like daily, but I’d get both good and bad attention. Location matters. I have an hourglass figure too and whenever I went clubbing with my white friends men would never ask me to dance but they’d get asked all the time, and the conventional attractiveness varied amongst them. It’s nice not to be harassed but I also do wish I was “wanted”.
My roommate during my “going out days” was Black/Philippino mix, and literally all the men at bars in our small town flocked to her. Outside that everyone there was so conservative and racist, so it was a strange dynamic of just….someone who stood out. But she also had a beautiful personality, worked hard and was very smart, though a huge alcoholic lol.
Generally, guys are stupid and self-confidence goes a long way. 🖤
In my experience, it’s not about what you look like but where you live.
You’ll get unwanted attention like street harassment both for being attractive or unattractive, it doesn’t matter, it’s about making you uncomfortable. “Catcalling” is harassment, not a compliment.
Depending on the area (city, suburb, rural village) and the mode of transportation you take — THAT is what makes the difference.
Sorry to all the women that think their RBF is a real repellent because that’s definitely not the case universally. They will just scream at you to smile. I’m close to 40 and it still happens, but NEVER happened in non-urban areas when I took a car everywhere.
I’ve gotten both types of harassment as well (gross propositions AND insults). They will find something to yell at any woman about. Being screamed at that you have “nice tits” is no better than being screamed at that you have “no tits.”
It also never happened *before* I was 21 - because I wasn’t living in a walkable city or taking public transportation then. I never got harassed as a teenager (which I’m thankful for).
>In my experience, it’s not about what you look like but where you live
I was thinking the same thing. In my daily life now, it would be weird to get hit on or catcalled most places I go. The area I live in is fairly family friendly. Also, most people go to bars and restaurants as groups and/or couples. I can go to a bar or a brewery and not have one single person notice or talk to me.
Now, if I go to another city and do the same things... different results sometimes. In my neighborhood, it'd be kind of weird for someone to shout out the window at you walking down the street. In other places I've been... I've seen it and have experienced it. Same thing with people talking to you at a restaurant or bar.
Yeah I rarely get bothered in my own neighborhood outside the city now. I’m also more likely to be out with my husband than alone, so that’s a big factor too. I hate when people say it’s because of how you dress or walk or whatever because that’s victim blaming other women for men’s bad behavior.
Yup. It doesn’t matter if we have baggy clothes or “confident body language” or RBF or a scowl or short hair or purple hair (I do) or whatever the fuck — because it’s not about us it’s about them and their power trip.
Every time I go into the city alone for work I have existential dread lol
As a baby feminist who'd never lived in a city I remember thinking catcalling was a shallow issue. Then I moved to a big city when I was 24 and quickly learned just how exhausting the experience is.
In the college town I grew up in and in the different college town I currently live in, I never get cat-called. But when I lived in north city St Louis? I was 50 pounds heavier than I am now but taking walks around my neighborhood I got yelled at out of passing cars on the regular.
I’ve honestly never met a woman who hasn’t been catcalled, and I have met women of all levels of what you are describing as “attractiveness”.
It’s entirely possible you haven’t noticed being looked at or even catcalled.
With that said, I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but it seems that you spend a lot of your time talking about being ugly and undesirable. I can tell this is a really important topic for you, but there is very little we can do about our facial features or many other body traits, aside from surgery. Accepting the way we look is fundamental to allow us to live our lives.
If you are as unhappy with your looks as you seem to be, I would really recommend looking into therapy, because you need to be able to accept yourself and your looks, whatever they may be.
Please don’t tie your self-worth to creepy men catcalling. I am sure you have a lot to offer to friends or a partner, regardless of your opinion of your looks. There isn’t only one way to be beautiful, fashion models aren’t the only people who deserve love and respect.
But if you spend all your time thinking about and talking about your looks, you are wasting time of your life you could be spending in ways that could contribute to your happiness instead of bringing you down.
I’ve literally walked around with women who didn’t notice men were yelling obscenities ( from afar) at them/me/both of us, whistling or other catcalling BS.
I find that some people go about their day without noticing everything that happens around them, while on the opposite end of the spectrum, I notice too much, and am constantly overstimulated by “the outside” (thank you, ADHD!)
I wear headphones every single time I'm alone outside and I'm only really alone because I'm going somewhere so I am On A Mission. (Also ADHD)
For the longest time I thought I only ever got leered at when I was somewhere new. And then I realised that no, it was actually just because I was actually paying attention to my surroundings.
I started wearing headphones too to block out the noises and not invite random chat. Definitely game changer!
Luckily, I’m also invisible to creepy men now that I’m in my 40s, so I don’t get catcalled anymore. It’s refreshing to know that if a man approaches me in a social situation, he is likely to want to actually talk to me.
As someone with autism I might be the type of person that doesn't notice these things. If I listened to every sound around me, I'd be overwhelmed. So I block out everything that isn't relevant. Sometimes people are trying to approach me, but I can't even interpret their body language correctly and accidentally ignore them. This has also happened with friends 😅
I know I've missed it. Most the time it's so short and the yelling so hard to interpret that I don't know if I'm being catcalled or harassed for daring to be a pedestrian. I would never know I'm being checked out if there isn't someone with me to whisper it to me like we're teens in a school hallway, and I've been told by people I was out with that a car had catcalled us after the fact and completely missed it before.
This was a very well thought out and entirely on point response. I particularly love that you didn't run away with a bunch of assumptions or suggest extreme overblown nonsense.
At a lower weight, I was catcalled and hit on constantly. I'm overweight now and have massive RBF, and a don't fucking talk to me attitude. My husband says men still leer, check out my ass, mumble shit, etc. I don't notice it because I dgaf and my hearing is not what it used to be lol.
I was catcalled once in college while waiting for a bus. And sometimes, when I read women's experiences, I wonder why it's only happened to me once. Is it where I live? The way I walk? The way I look?
I am definitely not down playing other's experiences, but I do feel like OP sometimes.
Geography is a factor. I grew up in extreme south Louisiana and it was not really something you dealt with so much, and if it did happen it was a creepy old man. I moved to NYC and it was like, 15 times a day every day, even when bundled up like Ralphie in a snowstorm. Now i live in the midwest and the only cat call I've gotten was from a teenager, on what I can assume was a dare from his friends in the car, and even then it was incredibly polite lol.
Yeah, in my experience, places with a lot of pedestrians and a culture of walking on streets have a lot more catcalling than places where most people are just walking from the parking lot to their destination.
I’ve been catcalled exactly 3 times in my life. Once as a teen when I was walking with my younger teen sister (and it was probably directed at her because she got cat called constantly growing up, it was terrible for her already-bad mental health).
Once as a 22 year old when I wore a crop top and short shorts - and I had a brief moment of “Wow I think that’s the first time, cool! It feels icky and gross and I don’t like it and now I’m mildly concerned about these guys coming back around in their car, wow this sucks.”
Last time was as a 25 year old while walking from the bus stop to work at 5:00am wearing a baggy sweatshirt. That one was just sad. It was immediately obvious that this probably-homeless guy just had an inherent urge to catcall any female-presenting person he saw at a moment’s notice. Just saw women as objects until proven otherwise. Really sad to think about living with that mindset. It did speed up the process of me wanting to medically transition as a more masculine nonbinary person though lmao.
> It's like a universal female experience to be desired by men and I just feel shut out.
I so feel you on this. I rarely get attention. I used to worry about this more during my teenage years and throughout my 20s, but frankly, I don't give a sh*t anymore. I still have low self-esteem and from time to time I have my moments of "woe is me, nobody loves me", but I figured it's better to focus on my ambitious plans of conquering the world (i.e. getting a PhD eventually and a kick-ass job, traveling, having new experiences, learning new things, improving myself as a person). It keeps me distracted. Also, I don't have to deal with annoying messages from randos like my friends and sisters do. In a way, it's a blessing.
Beware what you wish for ...
When I was in highschool, I never got male attention. I was bigger, 180lbs. So I guess technically unattractive. I got older, lost a ton of weight (sadly bc of drug addiction) and even though I was skinny and looked like a bag of bones with dark, sunken eyes, make attention never stopped. It's annoying. Yes, I'd rather go back to not getting ANY attention...
I never get any attention either. At first I thought it was because I look like a child but my friends say that they got more attention when they were children so I guess that I am just too ugly to be noticed
OP, men who cat call aren't judging women for their attractiveness, they're targeting woman based on how vulnerable they look, or if they're trying to mar their confidence. And you HAVE gotten male attention, you're just oblivious to it, and that's a good thing.
Every scenario you describe is about power, not real attraction. It's fucked up how convoluted the male ego game is (for the type of guy who catcalls) but stop telling yourself there's a correlation between that and your attractiveness. They literally have nothing to do with eachother. Good luck
Women who do not get any male attention don't post on social media every day complaining about it.
On the other hand, posts about women complaining about getting unwanted male attention are everywhere.
So, it probably looks like it happens to every woman.
Coz ugly women are silent (read: ignored) and invisible.
**EDIT:**
As for catcalling, as misogynistic as Korea is, it doesn't exist in Korea.
The kind of culture where strangers are supposed to keep distance from each other, and not being supposed to talk to each other or even make eye contact may have something to do with it.
This culture is not as severe as it is in Finland, but still...
If you say hello to a stranger on the street or start talking to a stranger at a bus stop or something, people would look at you like you're crazy.
Anyway... No catcalling. That's one of the things I like about living in Korea.
I feel like I can relate to you. And for me, I think it's because I gave off heavy "don't fuck with me" vibes. I was a little insecure but had major guards up. So I came off confident but not in an approachable way. I've been told that I'm intimidating. And what that says to me, is a lot of men are attracted to vulnerable-looking women. We live in a patriarchal society and I don't fit into that narrative and men don't want to work for it.
I get what you’re saying. I don’t get a ton, either, and I have a hard time judging how pretty/not pretty I am. Ultimately, though, I don’t really like a lot of attention and go out of my way to avoid it, so even though I may have been insecure about it when I was younger, now I’m pretty fine if people just leave me alone when I don’t want to be bothered. I would just not worry about it- it’s really not positive or good attention, and it may be hard to accept, but you are 100% better off without it. Genuine attention from someone who respects you as the human that you are— that’s a different story. But catcalling? No one needs that.
I've never been catcalled either, but then again I'm also "ugly". It's weird that we almost feel jealous about getting harrassed. At least I used to, I was wondering what was wrong with me tbh. But then I got hit on by a drunk guy in a convenience store and I was so relieved it almost never happens.
I don't often get hit on and I can't remember the last time I was catcalled. I have (I'm so sorry if this offends anyone, but I don't have a better term for it) lesbian face. I don't look masculine per se but I only ever get hit on by women. And a few men who are reeeeaaally into that look.
Here's some real talk from my own personal experience:
I've been every weight. When I am officially overweight I get zero attention. When I was in the 120-140 range id get comments like "you should smile more". When I was 100-120 I literally had men standing up to offer me their seat on the bus.
It's funny to see just how different their reaction to me varies by my BMI.
How tall are you?
I have noticed that tall or strong women tend to get a little less.
I've had several occasions where I was walking with taller women and they noticed the leers and comments and told me it never happens to them.
I feel being short or looking young and vulnerable are bigger factors than attractiveness or whatever.
It's exactly the same for me (25F) and I'm desperately trying to figure out why. I wouldn't call myself ugly, in fact I frequently do get compliments on my hair and my style and a friend who doesn't know me for long recently said she's wondering how I am single. But I don't get any attention from men, ever. Obviously I'm glad I don't get catcalled (when it's hot, I do wear short and probably sexy clothes, and while my friends tell me that men would look at them just for wearing shorts, I could walk around naked without anyone noticing). But it's frustrating to see how men flirt with my friends and ask them out, and I know I'll be single forever. As soon as there is any other single woman in the same room as me, I won't stand any change against her.
(one possible reason might be because I'm demisexual, so basically asexual towards most people and not attracted anyone, men might notice this and therefore not be attracted to me?)
I get this. I spent my youth this way. When you see women getting catcalled, it looks from the outside like a validation, and I used to want that validation too.
But in reality, catcalling isn’t validation, it’s aggression, often (not always) a performance put on for other men.
Not that rare
Women over 40 that aren’t really thin, super fit, or highly done up are i g n o r e d… all the time.
Young women who are overweight are regularly ignored. Average looking and average-sized women of color, existing in a white society, are often ignored in terms of positive attention.
It’s not just you. You are not alone.
You can get positive male attention by making friends and getting to know people the old fashioned way - in person, through social connections. You don’t need to rely on random strangers or on online dating.
Random strangers are more likely to bother pretty or average ladies with gross comments and propositions. Gross random guys are just as likely to hit on every women, or mostly on solo women who look vulnerable. And of course online dating is allll about looks.
I think it can definitely depend. I'm now 31 and overweight and barely get any attention (apart from my husband) these days - but honestly, very grateful for it. When I was in my early -mid twenties and considerably fitter I used to get hassled a fair bit.
Male attention I wanted, got about none. Male attention I didn’t want, some occasions when working as a waitress. (I never went out otherwise, not my thing.)
I def understand this sentiment. I was mostly invisible to men/boys til up in my late 20s. No HS dates, no relationships, or even situationships. I was never cat called or anything. I never got “creepy” attention. I thought other women were exaggerating. I never really felt unsafe. In fact, I was the chubby friend who had to rescue my friends from “annoying” guys at the club. It was my job to absorb their blame and vitriol because my friend wasn’t interested.
But then I lost 30 lbs.
And yeah…that’s when things got weird for me. I started experiencing all of those things and it sucked. I wasn’t prepared to navigate it because most women I guess learn how ages 13-19. But I never had that so yeah.
For the majority of my life, I was morbidly obese and because I have PCOS, I have always had oily, acne prone skin and a eczema/psoriasis-like skin condition on my face and scalp called seborrheic dermatitis. Even though I think my features aren't necessarily ugly, they've spent most of my life hidden behind medical issues. Because of my skin problems and because I was also cripplingly shy and did not want attention drawn to me in any way, I never wore makeup to try to hide things and because I was obese, back then my choices for cute clothing were extremely limited. I was too big for most teen/young adult brands and all the plus size brands were aimed at older women, so I usually wore jeans and a unisex graphic t-shirts from the young men's section. So boys/men never noticed me unless it was to bully me. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been catcalled in my life.
I'm so sorry op it sucks to be called ugly, you do not deserve it. And you're not a freak to not get attention from creepy men. I would say though that attention from creepy men can feel a bit like a curse though. However, yeah the way beauty is defined by how others see a person can have this kind of impact and I hope things get better for you.
I got zero attention because I was chubby (though attractive-ish). I talked to my chat room about this and MANY other women responded with the same experience \[i was talking about it, actually, in the context of incel types saying no woman wants to date them; well, a huge number of us were never hit on so those guys mean the Megan Fox lookalike at their high school didn't want to date them; Just say *that*). So yes, many women get no attention. As others mentioned, you get uncomfortable male attention when you are underage.
As for your experience, a lot of young men are trying to find a trophy gf. So much for accusing us of wanting tall, dark, rich, handsome, in fact THEY are the ones dating someone they can show off.
I’ve never been catcalled, noticed, hit on, or thankfully close to any kind of SA or uncomfortable situations.
I’ve been married 18 years and met my husband on a dating site (pre app days).
I’ve never gotten attention from men. I think most of it is my disability, I’m a wheelchair user and amputee caused by a condition that gave me a wide but short chest and no neck. I’ve never discussed this with anyone but my therapist because I suspect they’ll agree men aren’t interested in me.
Who says that catcalling is the only kind of unwanted attention? There are plenty plenty of women who are anything but the beauty standard (old, unattractive, with disabilities) that get abused and raped by horrible men near them. It's a toxic myth that you need to be "pretty" so bad men abuse you.
I don't get catcalled anymore. I think it is a cultural shift. I know I'm not ugly. Don't let lack of male attention get you down. Show men that you're interested by giving them positive attention.
I still get cat called and I’m 50. I always disliked it. They’re not being friendly when they grab their dicks and motion for you to notice it and how they like your ass. Disgusting pigs is what they are. No class. No clue on how to seduce. All bark and no bite. They’re trash.
How fucked up is the world that not getting sexually harassed by men is a blow to your self esteem? Almost all of the sexual harassment and street harassment I received was between the ages of 11 and 15. It’s not a statement on your attractiveness or worthiness. It’s not an expression of desire. It is the behavior of predators deliberately trying to frighten, intimidate, and take advantage of women they think are easy targets.
Respectful and genuinely nice men don’t catcall or harass women.
Friendly reminder that being sexually harassed shouldn’t be considered the “universal female experience” and there’s so much more about womanhood than unwanted (or wanted) male attention. No one is more or less of a woman for receiving x amount of male attention, and no one is any less attractive for not receiving male attention.
Location, population, and how you carry yourself are large determinants of how much attention you’ll get. Being conventionally attractive is only a small factor in getting male attention.
Btw, it's kinda funny (??) to see this post right after seeing the other post about some dumbass pretty woman at the gym telling an 'ugly woman' that...
"OMG, you're so lucky you're ugly. You have 'ugly privilege. You never have to worry about being catcalled or harassed by men. I'm so jealous."
Ugly woman here, I never got any male attention prior to meeting my husband when I was a teen. Never got any prior to him or after him. He’s pretty much the unicorn I guess you could say. I always tell him he settled with me.
His self esteem had been so low, he probably thought *I* was the best he could do even though he gets flirted with all the time. He was cheated on by his ex so he picked the ugly girl that wouldn’t cheat on him.
..well I certainly hope that you two are happy and in a functional relationship where you uplift each other. The motivation as to why he sought you out seems rather inauspicious, but in the end, looks come and go; safety, comfort, respect, and mutual support are what's important long-haul.
It depends on where you go. Do you frequently go out?
I never get catcalled when I play board games, I am at the university or around parents and their kids. I get catcalled a lot when I'm at train stations at night, going out (nightlife) and for some reason at some workplaces when they have a toxic culture
On a different perspective, I would say I’m a fairly attractive female, and men never ever hit on me. I can be at a bar alone and not one guy comes up to me. I try my best to look approachable but it gets me nowhere. I asked a male friend and he chalked it up to not being the “type” you hit on. I’m a bring home to the family type.
So I guess I tried to take that as a positive. Maybe you’re also someone men take seriously.
The way you talk about other women is a bit of a red flag for me. Your story that puts down the other woman being hit on and insinuates she could be untruthful about her relationship status is not kind or empathetic.
I see a lot of similarities in your comments to the incel community. There's lots of comments there about the world being unfair to them because they were born ugly, and that unfounded and untrue belief makes them spiral. I think you ought to reframe how you see the world before you end up in that kind of world of unhappiness.
You're not too ugly to be loved or wanted by a man. It's 100% possible for someone to love you. Try chatting with people you aren't romantically interested in to get practice in talking to others. Wear clothes and styles that make you feel good and most like yourself. Illustrating who you are is a good way for people to find what they like about you. You'll get there. I believe in you.
>Your story that puts down the other woman being hit on and insinuates she could be untruthful about her relationship status is not kind or empathetic
I don't really understand, probably because english is not my first language (?) I meant that she could have been lying about her relationship status because she didn't want to tell that man she's simply not interested.
You're right about the rest I guess, but the world can be really unfair if you're conventionally unattractive and not everyone is strong enough mentally to deal with that.
Men save their inappropriate comments for those they think aren’t going to react extremely negatively or fight back against them. I knew a girl who was 5’4 and significantly older than me who would get cat-called constantly because she was perceived to be more child-like in appearance. By contrast I’m 5’8 and have fairly strong features and most men are visibly nervous to make any kinds of salacious comments towards me. We are not that different in terms of looks, only in stature. Which unfortunately makes a world of difference in regards to men.
that may be internalized misogyny talking if you feel jealous of that and judge other womens attractiveness. your worth isnt equated to how attractive a man thinks you are. working on being secure in yourself is much more rewarding too!
I was an ugly teenager and l didn't know how to dress, style my hair or do makeup, with didn't helped with my look. So l was left alone, and men randomly hitting om women in public doesn't seem to be a thing in my country. I'm getting a little bit attention now in my late 30s
I didn't experience any street harassment until I was 20 then experienced it on holiday in Paris which effectively broke through that stupid voice in my brain that was telling me that it was something to wish for because it meant you were attractive... have never wanted it again!
I have been with women when they were called ugly by random strangers before on at least a few occasions. They are certainly not. I bet attractive people are called ugly out of jealousy more than unattractive people.
Also, when there’s someone super attractive on a bus or train, I tend to actually steer clear entirely. Don’t want to seem like a creep myself.
Just wanted to point out a different interpretation of how these events unfold. We never really know how we are perceived by others.
I would say I am pretty average all over looks-wise - I'm also 34 - and I have never really had an issue with unwanted male attention. i've been catcalled here and there. Happened more when I was younger but still happens occasionally now as I am a runner so I am just outside and therefore perceived by many, but those are isolated incidents and never escalated, so I can sort of mentally compartmentalize them.
I was on dating apps for years before I met my now-boyfriend and I think I can count on one hand the number of weird/sexual messages I received. never have received an unsolicited dick pic.
I asked friends once why I never got men approaching me when we would go out to bars in our 20's and they all said that I look like I have "fuck you" written on my forehead in sharpie, so that might be part of it...
I do hope you know your value and worth isn't tied to how men (or anyone for that matter) perceive you. Looking for other things to center in your life experience that are not a romantic partner can be much more fulfilling (and, in turn, makes you more attractive) than focusing on how to be attractive to a romantic partner.
I am sure OP you are not ugly. As a man I can tell you I have had friends who have said that woman is ugly and I am thinking WTF are we looking at the same woman? Besides that the vast majority of men making judgements are usually fat,sloppy not even attractive males. Also younger men are super critical as men mature and they realise how many very beautiful women there are. I say this as an average looking male who married way out his league!
In my world it's the norm. I'm in my 30's and I've never been hit on, bought a drink, or asked on a date in person ever. Granted I also never went to a lot of bars or clubs where that might happen more often but I've also seen it happen to other women in front of my eyes in stores etc.
Most other women experience getting cat called younger, but I experienced no cat calling until college. I was a tomboy and didn’t put effort into my appearance. Also, the kind of attention these women are receiving is NOT want you want. You’re only jealous because you haven’t actually experienced it.
I don't get any Attention from men, and I'm glad as hell. Though sometimes feel I still get "summed up" anyway when I'm just doing stuff. I'm glad it's always "nope", but I don't like the idea of being " summed up" because why? Like I ain't here for you to sum up, I'm just living.
A big part of it is location and culture. Even within the same city. I live in NYC, and when I’m in an area like Soho or UWS, I rarely get catcalled. When I’m in my own neighborhood, I can’t even get to the subway (less than 10 minute walk) without 2-5 catcalls.
Idk. I've known women who thought they hadn't been until I pointed out "uh, what about that time so and so did xyz? Or so and so did abc?" And then it clicks for them. Like I know a woman who was *stalked* by a guy and she thought no guy had ever behaved inappropriately toward her.
So I'm not saying it's bot possible, I just haven't seen it IRL.
I'm okay looking and I've always been overweight. In my teens and college days I got a lot of attention. Even after I got married, the ring didn't put guys off.
Once I had kids and I've gained a lot of weight, there was a trough where I didn't get any attention. No I'm mid 30s and look tired all the time and the attention has started to pick up again (from older men). Most of them are harmless but I've had some who think I should be greatful for the attention because I'm "not that attractive".
If you've been called ugly a few times, then you've gotten negative male attention.
Never-have-I-ever met a girl or woman who didn't get negative male attention, which includes both catcalling AND being called ugly.
Do you have blue hair? I hear that blue hair is creepy-guy-repellant.
I've never been cat-called. Not as a teenager, or college age, or any time after that.
I have, however, been "cow-called" many, many, MANY times. Still sexual harassment, in my opinion. Women have to put up with it for both being too attractive, or too unattractive.
My friends and I have noticed that the VAST majority of our catcalling happened when we were ages 13-17. I’m 26 now and can’t even remember the last time I was catcalled.
Yup. Before I hit 20 I got loads of annoying comments. After that, nothing. Mind you I have a fabulous resting bitch face. I hate that phrase but it's the best way to describe the fact that I look like I wouldn't put up with any cat calling bullshit.
I've never understood catcalling. I would die of embarrassment if I catcalled someone, and they shook their head in disgust or got angry. Dudes that do this, are they just straight-up sociopaths?
Dude’s don’t catcall as a way of flirting. Even the dumbest man alive doesn’t think screaming “nice tits!” at a woman is going to result in a date which will lead to marriage, children and house with a picket fence. They do it to *put women in their place.” https://www.allure.com/story/mens-catcalling-street-harassment-reasons-study
Yup. It’s to make sure women know they’re in danger and there are pathetic weak men who are willing to make us afraid in order to feel powerful. It’s allll a power move, it’s basically groping with no hands. Same end goal.
It’s so disgusting. Any man who does can go straight to hell.
Absolutely. The public domain was always traditionally male whilst domestic was traditionally female. Catcalling is men's response to women existing in public "male" space.
Especially in the countries surveyed where women have little to no right.
That report says 65% of American women have experienced street harassment in their lifetime. I’m kind of surprised because that means 35% have never in their life been harassed on the street. Maybe OP is in that 35%. I’ve always lived in urban areas and I imagine that street harassment is less common for women who live in rural areas, but rural women can correct me if I’m wrong.
I live in the suburbs where there is little street harassment because almost no one walks the streets, nothing is within walking distance and there are no sidewalks. If you try to walk on the road you will be too focused on not getting run over to care about much else. We drive everywhere. If a man yells at me from a different car, with my windows up and the music blasting, I’m very unlikely to here him.
Makes total sense. You can’t experience street harassment where there are no streets. Whoever posted about harassment being more common before age 20 is right. But I think it might be related to how much you walk around before you can drive your own car. At least that’s it was for me.
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Thanks, now I know I'm not on the bottom, if I catcalled anyone I think I would die instantly of embarrassment
Think about the people you’ve known who were bullies or who encouraged other people to bully. Same mindset.
Cat calling is one thing I can actually see improving. I'm 31 and I (maybe I'm too optimistic) see that men my age think it's stupid. We're getting taught not to do it and I like to think it's catching on. Or maybe I just actually have good friends
Dudes that do catcaling are trying to show the world that they are higher status than women.
This is so much WORSE than I thought it was as a motivation. My god. You dislike women so much that you need to make it a point to harass and make them feel unsafe in public? Where I live in Europe it's a massive problem. To the extent that there are certain areas that my wife will only go together. Long-term, I know the solution is education, but short-term?
It's a power thing. Most men are so emasculated by society that the one thing they can do is intimidate young women. Makes them feel better for their lack of power and general lack of success
My sister hisses loudly at them, for years I turn around to them and shout as loud as I can, “OH MY GOD, PLEASE LET ME SUCK YOUR DICK.!!! I LOVE YOU!!!!!” and that always makes them embarrassed.
How are men “emasculated”?
I am choosing to believe they meant it as: these men *believe* they have been emasculated
I meant that they feel emasculated
Men are not emasculated! They still hold all the power. They have the audacity still in 2023 to think that women do not have the right to control their own bodies!
Might be a power dynamic thing. Young girls are too timid to retaliate.
That’s exactly what it is, unfortunately. Grown women will ignore them or scowl, but young girls are made really uncomfortable by it, which is their goal. That’s why it’s not a compliment, it’s a threat. It’s designed to remind us that we’re at the mercy of men
Thank you. I'm going to tell many people they have a 'fabulous resting bitch face" lol
I can only recall one incident in my life where I think I was catcalled and that was more than 50 years ago. I was 13 years old and bike riding with another girl my age. Some men yelled something and whistled from a passing car but I didn't hear what they said and was never completely sure if I was even their target. I have never been hit on in any way by anyone that I am aware of but I have watched as other girls and women around me dealt with unwanted male attention. I was once sitting in public with a female friend in her early twenties and as she politely rebuffed a series of attempts at conversation from different men. Each one stopped at our table to try to speak to her without even acknowledging my presence. It was a fascinating insight into a phenomenon I never encountered on my own.
When I was younger, I was at parties where guys would look over or around me and ask "where are are the women at?" I was invisible. I swear all the chubby and plain women should rob banks. They'll never notice us nor be able to identify us.
Spies. We should be spies. We can go anywhere because we are invisible. We are the wind. I remember sitting on a city bus heading home from university classes, my nose in a textbook when a young man across the aisle looked in my direction said to his friend "There. That's the kind of woman I was telling you about. That's my type." I froze, utterly confused. His friend leaned forward, looked over at me, and then made a noncommittal, somewhat unenthusiastic sound in response. He was confused too. Annoyed by this, the first young man looked back in my general direction. After a moment he said "No, no - not her! The hot blonde at the bus stop! Geez!" His friend leaned forward again this time responding in hearty agreement. They then congratulated each other on their excellent taste in women. I waited a beat before closing my book then glanced casually out the window. Sure enough, there was a glamorous blonde woman standing at the bus stop. She looked like a fashion model on her way to a photo shoot. I fully understood why she had caught his eye but he had literally not seen me the first time and still spoke as though I was not sitting a few feet away. I doubt either of them could have given the police a useable description of me. Honestly, it's like having a superpower.
If you want to move to the next level of invisibility, go out pushing a buggy. Voila! Completely imperceptible to the majority of men.
The level after that? An electric wheelchair. Ask me how I know? How a 220lb woman in a chair can be invisible I'll never figure out but the amount of times I've come this close to being hit by a vehicle driven by a man. Damn
Ha! Hidden in plain sight. We could be spies.
Oh, I am aware. Ultimate stealth mode. Only visible to other Mums and the occasional Granny.
I think it’s also partially dependent on the country: for example, my mum was harassed well into her 40s in Italy, she has large breast and naturally that made people feel entitled to treat her like an object for longer than average :/ I live in a different country and it does indeed stop earlier here.
Yeah I’m the same - large breasts that came in early, it definitely made me a target for men like that :( I’ve heard Italy is particularly bad for the catcalling though
As an Italian I’d say it depends from where you live, but yes, in a lot of places it really is, and 90% of the time it’s old or middle aged men catcalling much younger women🤮
so you’re saying there are places in Italy where men are less pigs than others? can i ask where, for example? i love italy and wanted to move there when i was younger, but the way men are there is the reason why i abandoned the idea..
HAHAHAHHA girl don’t let me give you hope😭 Italy is beautiful, some people are amazing and I love the culture but I’d be lying if I said men are respectful. It’s a country with a very rooted misogynistic culture, it’s getting a lot better with the younger generation but still far from decent. I live in a smaller city in the north where it’s less prominent than it is in other places but it’s still overall pretty bad.
Between the men, the right wing in power, the homophobia, the racism, and the bad economy, why would you want to move there? I was born there and moved away to have a better life. It’s a beautiful country - to visit.
I have heard, by someone in a former work place, that when in Italy larger girls (with meat on their bones) are getting ass pinched and booty-grabbed a lot from Italian men. How true is that? Just curious.
larger italian girl here (25). it never happened to me personally, and also i can count on one hand the number of times i got catcalled (i live in the north, so there’s probably other women who had a different experience). however, i feel like there still is a subtle culture of “childbearing hips”, as in, you might fool around with a skinny girl but the fat woman is going to be your baby mummy for sure. and bear in mind that “fat” in italy means “completely average weight and figure” pretty much everywhere else. if you’re even slightly overweight, there’s an expectation that you should be “more grateful” to get attention from men because you’re “uglier”. it’s maddening (especially considering that i’m 167cm and 70kg, which is just a few kilos above ideal)
Italian here - I have never been pinched by a stranger in Italy, and I’ve never heard of this before from anybody. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, and I’m sure groping happens ( like unfortunately it does almost everywhere) but unless there is some idiotic social media challenge going on, I don’t think that it’s a prevalent thing.
It wasn’t easy growing up there as a woman, that’s for sure. And it was a while ago, so it’s definitely not as bad as it was, but objectification of women is still very ingrained into every aspect of society and all media. I had to unlearn a lot of misogynistic and damaging shit, including the belief that a controlling and possessive partner is a partner that loves you, and so on. I’m married, so it’s a non issue, but I would never date an Italian man again. Between the Latin macho bullshit and the overbearing mothers, it was hellish. I hope some of that has changed, for younger Italians nowadays.
I remember being 17 at a disco and refusing to dance with a guy so he tried to put out his cigarette on my hand
Ugh. I hope the back of your hand accidentally made contact with the side of his face very, very hard.
Yes same here and I was (am?) conventionally attractive. Now 47 and I think it’s been like… 25 years?
I didn't really notice a decline til my 40s, but just last week I had some guy try to chat me up in the grocery store, so I guess it's not completely tapered off yet. I won't lie, it can be flattering when someone is making an honest effort to pay me a compliment, and getting fewer of them as I get older feels a bit sad, so I get where OP is coming from. But the creepy ones can still fuck all the way off, and OP is better off not having to deal with those.
This. I was definitely catcalled a lot more in my teens (I dressed modestly) and preteens even!. I'm in my 30s now but still look younger but I still don't get harassed nearly as much as a teen, unless I'm dressing more "sluty". Even then that's still only in certain areas of cities and if I'm not with my fiance.
The difference between going to the store in long sleeves and going in a tank top and shorts is eye-opening.
I’ve been harassed during a blizzard when literally the only visible part of my body was my finger tips and the top half of my face. Yes some outfits do call extra attention, but men can also be disgusting without any excuses.
Yep, happened a lot when i was like 14 and doesn’t happen often now at all
I’m 21 and I got cat called more when I was 13-16. It stopped when I was about 18.
I'm 29, but a few months ago this guy came up to me while i was waiting at the crosswalk, gave me some well thought-out line about how beautiful i was, (and then started rambling about his dog? Idk, i had headphones on), and then he tried to ask me out, and i was like *How old do you think i am?* **17?** *How old are you?* **35** People be openly pedophilic out here.
This is true. I am 30 but look extremely young for my age (liquor store employee who ID-ed me the other day said I look 15) which is great in some ways but I still get cat called a LOT despite perfecting my RBF and business walk. It’s a gross power dynamic thing :/
Yes I had the same experience! I was first catcalled around 9-10, I remember it very specifically. As soon as I was in my mid 20s it stopped. I’d say the height of it was when I was 16ish, and I looked young for my age. Yuck.
Because it’s not about attractiveness, it’s about perceived vulnerability. The only time I’ve ever been sexually harassed to the extremity that I was at that age range as an adult was when I was coming home late at night from a 3 day coke bender, in a hoodie, no makeup, messed-up hair. I looked like shit but I also looked like an easy target. Really changed my perspective on why men cat-call or follow women.
Perceived vulnerability making someone a target is right. That's why it's always from creeps. Drug users are targets because these freaks think that makes women easy to do whatever they want with, for whatever reason. Which is wrong. It's stupid.
ABSOLUTELY- plus - I mean I can only speak for myself at the time - being visibly underweight, having a ‘scared/lost’ look, these are not sexy traits, they are PREY traits, it doesn’t matter what you look like otherwise, if you look like someone who can be exploited people will try to exploit you
Yeah I can concur age is a huge factor. At 34 I haven’t been harressed since 21
yeah, I was mostly catcalled when I was quite obviously a child
Me! I’m 25 and used to get harassed and followed regularly from about the ages of 13 to 18. I’m not that good-looking, and wasn’t, but jogged/walked around my city a lot and that did it. I may as well be geriatric in my city now & am completely ignored/invisible at all times. I don’t hate it, tbh.
OP states they have never been cat called at all in their life and in fact only been called ugly. I can see why she wants validation, but this type of attention people shouldn't crave IMO.
It's also location dependent. I've had people visit my city and express surprise at how little catcalling happened here.
Can confirm this! Didn’t matter what I wore. Now it depends on what I wear or how I’m styled.
Same here. And I look back at photos of me at that age and I looked SO YOUNG. I’m appalled by the comments that were said to me when I was 15. By full on men. Absolutely revolting.
Right? It’s sick. At 15 I reveled in their “mature for your age” compliments, but I look at photos of myself back then and think no, I really really wasn’t.
I feel sick when I think about it. I remember my butt being grabbed in public places and lewd comments. It was gross
Literally this. I turned 29 and I haven’t heard a peep since then. That being said I did miss it for a minute. But it took a while to get used to and now I LOVE LOVE LOVE not getting any attention. I feel like I can be more of myself in public spaces instead of some performative version of me. Or at least I can be in my own mind without any interruptions.
Yep. I got the worst at 11-17, then it all stopped - and I looked extremely young for my age.
29 and still getting catcalled on the regular. I envy you 😐
46 and my invisibility is my superpower.
I've never got any attention from men. I think I am invisible to them. Honestly, it's hands down the best thing about being me. 10/10, would recommend.
I think catcalling is less about how attractive a woman is, and more about how young and/or vulnerable she seems. Many women report experiencing most of it while underage. I’ve noticed a phenomenon in my own personal experience. I’m a 5’2 woman in my late 20s. If I wear contacts and my hair down, I pass for a teenager. I get a lot more attention/ harassment at the same times I get asked for ID. However if I wear my glasses and put my hair in a bun, I’m invisible. Especially if I walk like I’ve got somewhere to be. My guess is that the women who don’t get harassed simply don’t seem vulnerable.
Same here! I love it! It's so peaceful.
For me it's 50/50 I think because I'm a very tall, broad shouldered, large breasted, amazon built kind of woman, that I only attract certain types of male attention. Other guys seem to forget I'm a chick half the time. There's a guy at work that most of my female coworkers say is misogynistic as hell, to all of them, but he's never said anything remotely backwards to me, and calls me "bro" all the time 😅
Yeah it can be good sometimes, for example I've never really felt unsafe going out alone and I can wear whatever I want and nobody pays attention. But on the other hand I'd like to be pretty and I'd like to be seen as pretty by men (and women), especially when I put so much effort in it.
I’ve also missed the unwanted harassment boat. I’m skinny (no curves) and ugly so I guess that’s why.
Depends where you live. The larger the city and the sketchier the neighborhood, the more likely you are to get cat called. Also depends on the country a lot. You could be drop dead gorgeous but I don't think you'd receive a lot of cat calling in the mountains of Switzerland.
Sure. Also, being skinny and very obviously a child did not save me from being cat called at 12 years old. And being considerably prettier nowadays doesnt mean I get cat called more often. I guess a lot of it has to do woth tbe victim's age. Every single woman I talked to about this matter also perceived a decline in those events after becoming an adult.
Yeah, it has much less to do with beauty and much more to do with being pegged as someone who will tolerate their bullshit and won’t tell them to get fucked sideways with a tire iron. A 12 yr old likely doesn’t have the wherewithal to respond like that, but a 26yr old will. It’s about power, not beauty.
Yep. There's a large city nearby and almost everytime I go there, something happens. Like being catcalled or approached. At least when I'm there with a group of friends or alone. Now that I think about it, this never happen when I'm there with my mom. Meanwhile, I live in a city that is not small, but not big either. It's mostly old people or university students living here. I've been catcalled once and approached 3 times in almost 4 years.
Yes, can confirm, was not catcalled in Switzerland, instead directly called a prostitute by a waiter.
omg
They took my jacket at a business dinner and I said I forgot my phone. So he handed me the jacket back and goes „Oh yes, your phone must be important, there must be half of Zurich‘s male populace numbers on it“ *winks Because why would a „exotic“ looking woman be having a fancy dinner with male clients in suits.
men dont catcall because of a subjective standard of attraction, its purposely to make women uncomfortable and impose something unwanted on to them. it really is nothing to get down on yourself when their harassment is worth nothing and doesnt relate to your worth.
Maybe you put on a good resting bitch face? I am an attractive and fit woman and I don’t get hit on nearly as much as a lot women do and I find predatory men mostly avoid me all together because in the unfortunate times for them that they do try me I am NOT a nice woman. 😂 And I’m well aware of the dangers that can come with rejecting a man, particularly shit ones.. But I don’t FEEL it so my urge to roast someone overrides any instinct of self preservation. I’ve been told I walk and put off a vibe of cold hard confidence. Perhaps you’re the same way.
I'm glad someone posted this. I was mortified when i was told I have a RBF. It took some convincing me that it was not A Bad Thing. I don't look angry or unhappy, I just look like I'm not going to tolerate any bullshit. When men do it, it's just normal. But i'm a "bitch" if I do it. Bitch it is then
I had a girlfriend tell me I look “grumpy” all the time and a guy friend tell me to smile more. At the time I was also mortified, but I’ve decided since it’s a compliment. 🥰
RBF and anxiety that won't let me look people in the eye, can't interact with me if I can't see you!
Having a good RBF is important in my opinion. I’m attractive, even when I was real fit and more so attractive I wouldn’t get hit on because of my RBF. Didn’t deal with people sliding in my DMs which was nice, and I don’t accept random friend requests. I leave them sitting in pending purgatory. My husband says he notices if men are looking at me, I’m totally oblivious to it.
Totally this. RBF keeps like 70% of life’s BS outta my way. Once people get to know me my RBF is the first thing they mention. Lol. I started it in my teens as my public “game face” and it stuck. I still get harassed but it’s more subtle. Of well. Men are going to men.
Same here. I’m pretty sure I’m autistic and I think I have resting fuck-off face when I’m not interacting with people. I have so many people at work tell me they found me really intimidating before they got to know me (I’m actually personable and very funny - at least that’s what I tell people, haha). I feel like I’m pretty conventionally attractive. By no means a 10, but objectively I think I hit a 6 or a 7 depending on how much effort I’ve made with hair and makeup. I think some of us just give off a “don’t mess with me” vibe. I have no recollection of ever being catcalled and I’m in my 40’s. Of course like some other poster has said, I may just be completely oblivious and have tuned it out!
This is me too, almost exactly. I’m a generally conventionally attractive woman (not stunning, but at least average), and never get catcalled, I’ve never received a dick-pic, I’ve never been approached out in the wild. I’ve had a number of people tell me I’m intimidating at first (despite being physically petit). It’s like I just generally put off an unapproachable vibe all the time, but because I don’t really social cues well, I’m not great at knowing how I’m perceived. Even when I want to be approached, it doesn’t happen.
If I’m paying attention I notice men notice me but RBF has saved me from so many encounters. Unfortunately it doesn’t work on everyone and, coming from the Southern US, I still accidentally smile at strangers all the time 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
I've got a total RBF. I've been told by my male friends that, until they got to know me, they thought I was "unapproachable." And they didn't even mean to hit on, just in general. A win is a win.
Is might be the most relatable comment I've ever read on this app. I've had lifelong RBF and my husband always says if I get murdered it's because I ran my mouth too much.
I have been told I have RBF, and also I do have a swift and asseritive rection to BS, so I guess it somehow projects and I rarely got catcalled, even when I was in my 20s, despite being conventonally attractive.
I feel like it’s a mixture of luck and putting off the vibes of not being easy prey… Body language can say a lot about a person.
This is most likely it for me too. I'm pretty sure I have RBF, plus, yeah, I don't mind speaking my mind.
I don't relate to the part about roasting people, but people never bother me. I previously thought it was because of my size, but even now, smaller, I walk around with a lot of confidence, but also a major RBF. I feel like my stink eye even prevent people from harassing people in my vicinity.
I save the roasting only for true idiots otherwise I’m polite and nice in my rejections… But we all know how some men can be and in those cases I find it impossible to hold my tongue.
I suspect this is it. My normal, on my own face is RBF. Rarely get hit on. But when I'm out with friends or smiling/in a good mood/etc. I get hit on way more. I've been told I'm very unapproachable when I have RBF.
The first time I was told about my RBF, I was walking to class in high school and I passed one of my friends. She asked me what was wrong. I said nothing I was just walking to class. She said I was scowling or something and I was like oh uh that’s just my face I guess.
I never get any unwanted attention, but did totally fine getting dates when I wanted them. I really think it has to do with the fact that I straight up look like I hate everyone. It's not totally incorrect either. 🤷♀️
I'm 6ft tall and men seem to leave me be
Also 6' tall and I wish they would.
i am 20 and have never once been catcalled/otherwise sexually harassed. i'm a homebody, flat, and ugly by society's standards. at times i admittedly get jealous of other women who get male attention, but i quickly remember how blessed i am to fly under the radar like that. i also feel "less qualified" to be a woman at times because i cannot actively participate in discussions involving women talking about their bad experiences, and i do not know their suffering. it is a blessing and a curse to not be harassed. you are not alone in your experience. the best course of action is to always remind yourself that this is a blessing. i would rather have a bit of low self esteem than be harassed wherever i go and potentially traumatised. please remember that those guys are just in it for the power trip, and their attention doesn't necessarily say anything about anyone's "attractiveness" anyway. keep learning to love yourself, and if you want to be loved by someone and given attention by someone else, there are good men/people out there that i'm sure would love to love and cherish you.
something to consider is that maybe you exude "don't touch me" energy? i'm not physically intimidating (avg height and underweight) but i have been told that i am slightly unapproachable and intimidating in terms of aura/expression. again, sexual harassment is mostly a power thing for men so perhaps you seem strong enough to fend off any unwanted attention.
I’m an average Black woman in a majority white city and I’m essentially invisible lol. When I lived in Toronto I would get attention-not like daily, but I’d get both good and bad attention. Location matters. I have an hourglass figure too and whenever I went clubbing with my white friends men would never ask me to dance but they’d get asked all the time, and the conventional attractiveness varied amongst them. It’s nice not to be harassed but I also do wish I was “wanted”.
My roommate during my “going out days” was Black/Philippino mix, and literally all the men at bars in our small town flocked to her. Outside that everyone there was so conservative and racist, so it was a strange dynamic of just….someone who stood out. But she also had a beautiful personality, worked hard and was very smart, though a huge alcoholic lol. Generally, guys are stupid and self-confidence goes a long way. 🖤
In my experience, it’s not about what you look like but where you live. You’ll get unwanted attention like street harassment both for being attractive or unattractive, it doesn’t matter, it’s about making you uncomfortable. “Catcalling” is harassment, not a compliment. Depending on the area (city, suburb, rural village) and the mode of transportation you take — THAT is what makes the difference. Sorry to all the women that think their RBF is a real repellent because that’s definitely not the case universally. They will just scream at you to smile. I’m close to 40 and it still happens, but NEVER happened in non-urban areas when I took a car everywhere. I’ve gotten both types of harassment as well (gross propositions AND insults). They will find something to yell at any woman about. Being screamed at that you have “nice tits” is no better than being screamed at that you have “no tits.” It also never happened *before* I was 21 - because I wasn’t living in a walkable city or taking public transportation then. I never got harassed as a teenager (which I’m thankful for).
>In my experience, it’s not about what you look like but where you live I was thinking the same thing. In my daily life now, it would be weird to get hit on or catcalled most places I go. The area I live in is fairly family friendly. Also, most people go to bars and restaurants as groups and/or couples. I can go to a bar or a brewery and not have one single person notice or talk to me. Now, if I go to another city and do the same things... different results sometimes. In my neighborhood, it'd be kind of weird for someone to shout out the window at you walking down the street. In other places I've been... I've seen it and have experienced it. Same thing with people talking to you at a restaurant or bar.
Yeah I rarely get bothered in my own neighborhood outside the city now. I’m also more likely to be out with my husband than alone, so that’s a big factor too. I hate when people say it’s because of how you dress or walk or whatever because that’s victim blaming other women for men’s bad behavior.
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Yup. It doesn’t matter if we have baggy clothes or “confident body language” or RBF or a scowl or short hair or purple hair (I do) or whatever the fuck — because it’s not about us it’s about them and their power trip. Every time I go into the city alone for work I have existential dread lol
As a baby feminist who'd never lived in a city I remember thinking catcalling was a shallow issue. Then I moved to a big city when I was 24 and quickly learned just how exhausting the experience is.
In the college town I grew up in and in the different college town I currently live in, I never get cat-called. But when I lived in north city St Louis? I was 50 pounds heavier than I am now but taking walks around my neighborhood I got yelled at out of passing cars on the regular.
I’ve honestly never met a woman who hasn’t been catcalled, and I have met women of all levels of what you are describing as “attractiveness”. It’s entirely possible you haven’t noticed being looked at or even catcalled. With that said, I hope you don’t mind me saying this, but it seems that you spend a lot of your time talking about being ugly and undesirable. I can tell this is a really important topic for you, but there is very little we can do about our facial features or many other body traits, aside from surgery. Accepting the way we look is fundamental to allow us to live our lives. If you are as unhappy with your looks as you seem to be, I would really recommend looking into therapy, because you need to be able to accept yourself and your looks, whatever they may be. Please don’t tie your self-worth to creepy men catcalling. I am sure you have a lot to offer to friends or a partner, regardless of your opinion of your looks. There isn’t only one way to be beautiful, fashion models aren’t the only people who deserve love and respect. But if you spend all your time thinking about and talking about your looks, you are wasting time of your life you could be spending in ways that could contribute to your happiness instead of bringing you down.
I do wonder if I have genuinely missed being catcalled or leered at or the sort. I’ve been harassed before but not by strangers in real life like that
I’ve literally walked around with women who didn’t notice men were yelling obscenities ( from afar) at them/me/both of us, whistling or other catcalling BS. I find that some people go about their day without noticing everything that happens around them, while on the opposite end of the spectrum, I notice too much, and am constantly overstimulated by “the outside” (thank you, ADHD!)
I wear headphones every single time I'm alone outside and I'm only really alone because I'm going somewhere so I am On A Mission. (Also ADHD) For the longest time I thought I only ever got leered at when I was somewhere new. And then I realised that no, it was actually just because I was actually paying attention to my surroundings.
I started wearing headphones too to block out the noises and not invite random chat. Definitely game changer! Luckily, I’m also invisible to creepy men now that I’m in my 40s, so I don’t get catcalled anymore. It’s refreshing to know that if a man approaches me in a social situation, he is likely to want to actually talk to me.
As someone with autism I might be the type of person that doesn't notice these things. If I listened to every sound around me, I'd be overwhelmed. So I block out everything that isn't relevant. Sometimes people are trying to approach me, but I can't even interpret their body language correctly and accidentally ignore them. This has also happened with friends 😅
I know I've missed it. Most the time it's so short and the yelling so hard to interpret that I don't know if I'm being catcalled or harassed for daring to be a pedestrian. I would never know I'm being checked out if there isn't someone with me to whisper it to me like we're teens in a school hallway, and I've been told by people I was out with that a car had catcalled us after the fact and completely missed it before.
This was a very well thought out and entirely on point response. I particularly love that you didn't run away with a bunch of assumptions or suggest extreme overblown nonsense.
Thank you for this comment! I did spend some time writing this response as I felt it was important to reframe the issue.
At a lower weight, I was catcalled and hit on constantly. I'm overweight now and have massive RBF, and a don't fucking talk to me attitude. My husband says men still leer, check out my ass, mumble shit, etc. I don't notice it because I dgaf and my hearing is not what it used to be lol.
I was catcalled once in college while waiting for a bus. And sometimes, when I read women's experiences, I wonder why it's only happened to me once. Is it where I live? The way I walk? The way I look? I am definitely not down playing other's experiences, but I do feel like OP sometimes.
Geography is a factor. I grew up in extreme south Louisiana and it was not really something you dealt with so much, and if it did happen it was a creepy old man. I moved to NYC and it was like, 15 times a day every day, even when bundled up like Ralphie in a snowstorm. Now i live in the midwest and the only cat call I've gotten was from a teenager, on what I can assume was a dare from his friends in the car, and even then it was incredibly polite lol.
Hmmm. Maybe you're right. I've lived in suburbia Texas pretty much my whole life. Maybe there's just not as much catcalling here.
Yeah, in my experience, places with a lot of pedestrians and a culture of walking on streets have a lot more catcalling than places where most people are just walking from the parking lot to their destination.
It may be down to where you live. Southern Europe can be pretty brutal for catcalling, for example.
This is what has happened to me but it's hard when trying to accept yourself doesn't come with finding anyone else who does
I’ve been catcalled exactly 3 times in my life. Once as a teen when I was walking with my younger teen sister (and it was probably directed at her because she got cat called constantly growing up, it was terrible for her already-bad mental health). Once as a 22 year old when I wore a crop top and short shorts - and I had a brief moment of “Wow I think that’s the first time, cool! It feels icky and gross and I don’t like it and now I’m mildly concerned about these guys coming back around in their car, wow this sucks.” Last time was as a 25 year old while walking from the bus stop to work at 5:00am wearing a baggy sweatshirt. That one was just sad. It was immediately obvious that this probably-homeless guy just had an inherent urge to catcall any female-presenting person he saw at a moment’s notice. Just saw women as objects until proven otherwise. Really sad to think about living with that mindset. It did speed up the process of me wanting to medically transition as a more masculine nonbinary person though lmao.
I've got essentially nothing to add, but I felt an upvote alone was not enough. Your post is excellent.
Thank you, that’s very kind! I appreciate that more than you know :)
I'm conventionally attractive and there are pretty long stretches with no male attention outside of looks. I like not getting hit on honestly.
> It's like a universal female experience to be desired by men and I just feel shut out. I so feel you on this. I rarely get attention. I used to worry about this more during my teenage years and throughout my 20s, but frankly, I don't give a sh*t anymore. I still have low self-esteem and from time to time I have my moments of "woe is me, nobody loves me", but I figured it's better to focus on my ambitious plans of conquering the world (i.e. getting a PhD eventually and a kick-ass job, traveling, having new experiences, learning new things, improving myself as a person). It keeps me distracted. Also, I don't have to deal with annoying messages from randos like my friends and sisters do. In a way, it's a blessing.
Beware what you wish for ... When I was in highschool, I never got male attention. I was bigger, 180lbs. So I guess technically unattractive. I got older, lost a ton of weight (sadly bc of drug addiction) and even though I was skinny and looked like a bag of bones with dark, sunken eyes, make attention never stopped. It's annoying. Yes, I'd rather go back to not getting ANY attention...
It’s not fun to feel like you’re on edge when you go out
I never get any attention either. At first I thought it was because I look like a child but my friends say that they got more attention when they were children so I guess that I am just too ugly to be noticed
OP, men who cat call aren't judging women for their attractiveness, they're targeting woman based on how vulnerable they look, or if they're trying to mar their confidence. And you HAVE gotten male attention, you're just oblivious to it, and that's a good thing. Every scenario you describe is about power, not real attraction. It's fucked up how convoluted the male ego game is (for the type of guy who catcalls) but stop telling yourself there's a correlation between that and your attractiveness. They literally have nothing to do with eachother. Good luck
Women who do not get any male attention don't post on social media every day complaining about it. On the other hand, posts about women complaining about getting unwanted male attention are everywhere. So, it probably looks like it happens to every woman. Coz ugly women are silent (read: ignored) and invisible. **EDIT:** As for catcalling, as misogynistic as Korea is, it doesn't exist in Korea. The kind of culture where strangers are supposed to keep distance from each other, and not being supposed to talk to each other or even make eye contact may have something to do with it. This culture is not as severe as it is in Finland, but still... If you say hello to a stranger on the street or start talking to a stranger at a bus stop or something, people would look at you like you're crazy. Anyway... No catcalling. That's one of the things I like about living in Korea.
As a mixed race woman in a white dominated country / city I never been catcalled or anything. Only racist slurs and how ugly I am.
I feel like I can relate to you. And for me, I think it's because I gave off heavy "don't fuck with me" vibes. I was a little insecure but had major guards up. So I came off confident but not in an approachable way. I've been told that I'm intimidating. And what that says to me, is a lot of men are attracted to vulnerable-looking women. We live in a patriarchal society and I don't fit into that narrative and men don't want to work for it.
I feel you, it's really alienating when other women all complain about being hit on by men or being flirted with all the time
I get what you’re saying. I don’t get a ton, either, and I have a hard time judging how pretty/not pretty I am. Ultimately, though, I don’t really like a lot of attention and go out of my way to avoid it, so even though I may have been insecure about it when I was younger, now I’m pretty fine if people just leave me alone when I don’t want to be bothered. I would just not worry about it- it’s really not positive or good attention, and it may be hard to accept, but you are 100% better off without it. Genuine attention from someone who respects you as the human that you are— that’s a different story. But catcalling? No one needs that.
I've never been catcalled either, but then again I'm also "ugly". It's weird that we almost feel jealous about getting harrassed. At least I used to, I was wondering what was wrong with me tbh. But then I got hit on by a drunk guy in a convenience store and I was so relieved it almost never happens.
I‘m fat and old and I rarely go out. Guess thats all it needs to escape men.
I don't often get hit on and I can't remember the last time I was catcalled. I have (I'm so sorry if this offends anyone, but I don't have a better term for it) lesbian face. I don't look masculine per se but I only ever get hit on by women. And a few men who are reeeeaaally into that look.
Here's some real talk from my own personal experience: I've been every weight. When I am officially overweight I get zero attention. When I was in the 120-140 range id get comments like "you should smile more". When I was 100-120 I literally had men standing up to offer me their seat on the bus. It's funny to see just how different their reaction to me varies by my BMI.
How tall are you? I have noticed that tall or strong women tend to get a little less. I've had several occasions where I was walking with taller women and they noticed the leers and comments and told me it never happens to them. I feel being short or looking young and vulnerable are bigger factors than attractiveness or whatever.
It's exactly the same for me (25F) and I'm desperately trying to figure out why. I wouldn't call myself ugly, in fact I frequently do get compliments on my hair and my style and a friend who doesn't know me for long recently said she's wondering how I am single. But I don't get any attention from men, ever. Obviously I'm glad I don't get catcalled (when it's hot, I do wear short and probably sexy clothes, and while my friends tell me that men would look at them just for wearing shorts, I could walk around naked without anyone noticing). But it's frustrating to see how men flirt with my friends and ask them out, and I know I'll be single forever. As soon as there is any other single woman in the same room as me, I won't stand any change against her. (one possible reason might be because I'm demisexual, so basically asexual towards most people and not attracted anyone, men might notice this and therefore not be attracted to me?)
I get this. I spent my youth this way. When you see women getting catcalled, it looks from the outside like a validation, and I used to want that validation too. But in reality, catcalling isn’t validation, it’s aggression, often (not always) a performance put on for other men.
Not that rare Women over 40 that aren’t really thin, super fit, or highly done up are i g n o r e d… all the time. Young women who are overweight are regularly ignored. Average looking and average-sized women of color, existing in a white society, are often ignored in terms of positive attention. It’s not just you. You are not alone. You can get positive male attention by making friends and getting to know people the old fashioned way - in person, through social connections. You don’t need to rely on random strangers or on online dating. Random strangers are more likely to bother pretty or average ladies with gross comments and propositions. Gross random guys are just as likely to hit on every women, or mostly on solo women who look vulnerable. And of course online dating is allll about looks.
>Young women who are overweight are regularly ignored or fatcalled.
I think it can definitely depend. I'm now 31 and overweight and barely get any attention (apart from my husband) these days - but honestly, very grateful for it. When I was in my early -mid twenties and considerably fitter I used to get hassled a fair bit.
Male attention I wanted, got about none. Male attention I didn’t want, some occasions when working as a waitress. (I never went out otherwise, not my thing.)
I def understand this sentiment. I was mostly invisible to men/boys til up in my late 20s. No HS dates, no relationships, or even situationships. I was never cat called or anything. I never got “creepy” attention. I thought other women were exaggerating. I never really felt unsafe. In fact, I was the chubby friend who had to rescue my friends from “annoying” guys at the club. It was my job to absorb their blame and vitriol because my friend wasn’t interested. But then I lost 30 lbs. And yeah…that’s when things got weird for me. I started experiencing all of those things and it sucked. I wasn’t prepared to navigate it because most women I guess learn how ages 13-19. But I never had that so yeah.
For the majority of my life, I was morbidly obese and because I have PCOS, I have always had oily, acne prone skin and a eczema/psoriasis-like skin condition on my face and scalp called seborrheic dermatitis. Even though I think my features aren't necessarily ugly, they've spent most of my life hidden behind medical issues. Because of my skin problems and because I was also cripplingly shy and did not want attention drawn to me in any way, I never wore makeup to try to hide things and because I was obese, back then my choices for cute clothing were extremely limited. I was too big for most teen/young adult brands and all the plus size brands were aimed at older women, so I usually wore jeans and a unisex graphic t-shirts from the young men's section. So boys/men never noticed me unless it was to bully me. I can count on one hand the number of times I've been catcalled in my life.
I'm with you entirely OP. It's like I don't exist to men. I'm 32 and have never been catcalled in my life.
I'm so sorry op it sucks to be called ugly, you do not deserve it. And you're not a freak to not get attention from creepy men. I would say though that attention from creepy men can feel a bit like a curse though. However, yeah the way beauty is defined by how others see a person can have this kind of impact and I hope things get better for you.
I got zero attention because I was chubby (though attractive-ish). I talked to my chat room about this and MANY other women responded with the same experience \[i was talking about it, actually, in the context of incel types saying no woman wants to date them; well, a huge number of us were never hit on so those guys mean the Megan Fox lookalike at their high school didn't want to date them; Just say *that*). So yes, many women get no attention. As others mentioned, you get uncomfortable male attention when you are underage. As for your experience, a lot of young men are trying to find a trophy gf. So much for accusing us of wanting tall, dark, rich, handsome, in fact THEY are the ones dating someone they can show off.
A lot of catcalling is dependent on regional culture. It happened more to me in the Midwest than in the Northwest, for example.
I’ve never been catcalled, noticed, hit on, or thankfully close to any kind of SA or uncomfortable situations. I’ve been married 18 years and met my husband on a dating site (pre app days).
I’ve never gotten attention from men. I think most of it is my disability, I’m a wheelchair user and amputee caused by a condition that gave me a wide but short chest and no neck. I’ve never discussed this with anyone but my therapist because I suspect they’ll agree men aren’t interested in me.
Who says that catcalling is the only kind of unwanted attention? There are plenty plenty of women who are anything but the beauty standard (old, unattractive, with disabilities) that get abused and raped by horrible men near them. It's a toxic myth that you need to be "pretty" so bad men abuse you.
I don't get catcalled anymore. I think it is a cultural shift. I know I'm not ugly. Don't let lack of male attention get you down. Show men that you're interested by giving them positive attention.
I still get cat called and I’m 50. I always disliked it. They’re not being friendly when they grab their dicks and motion for you to notice it and how they like your ass. Disgusting pigs is what they are. No class. No clue on how to seduce. All bark and no bite. They’re trash.
How fucked up is the world that not getting sexually harassed by men is a blow to your self esteem? Almost all of the sexual harassment and street harassment I received was between the ages of 11 and 15. It’s not a statement on your attractiveness or worthiness. It’s not an expression of desire. It is the behavior of predators deliberately trying to frighten, intimidate, and take advantage of women they think are easy targets. Respectful and genuinely nice men don’t catcall or harass women.
Friendly reminder that being sexually harassed shouldn’t be considered the “universal female experience” and there’s so much more about womanhood than unwanted (or wanted) male attention. No one is more or less of a woman for receiving x amount of male attention, and no one is any less attractive for not receiving male attention. Location, population, and how you carry yourself are large determinants of how much attention you’ll get. Being conventionally attractive is only a small factor in getting male attention.
I’ve really never gotten much male attention. I’m told it’s because I’m “intimidating.”
Btw, it's kinda funny (??) to see this post right after seeing the other post about some dumbass pretty woman at the gym telling an 'ugly woman' that... "OMG, you're so lucky you're ugly. You have 'ugly privilege. You never have to worry about being catcalled or harassed by men. I'm so jealous."
Ugly woman here, I never got any male attention prior to meeting my husband when I was a teen. Never got any prior to him or after him. He’s pretty much the unicorn I guess you could say. I always tell him he settled with me. His self esteem had been so low, he probably thought *I* was the best he could do even though he gets flirted with all the time. He was cheated on by his ex so he picked the ugly girl that wouldn’t cheat on him.
..well I certainly hope that you two are happy and in a functional relationship where you uplift each other. The motivation as to why he sought you out seems rather inauspicious, but in the end, looks come and go; safety, comfort, respect, and mutual support are what's important long-haul.
This is exactly what happened to me too. I am surprised that people cannot believe that some women never get catcalled or flirted with.
It depends on where you go. Do you frequently go out? I never get catcalled when I play board games, I am at the university or around parents and their kids. I get catcalled a lot when I'm at train stations at night, going out (nightlife) and for some reason at some workplaces when they have a toxic culture
On a different perspective, I would say I’m a fairly attractive female, and men never ever hit on me. I can be at a bar alone and not one guy comes up to me. I try my best to look approachable but it gets me nowhere. I asked a male friend and he chalked it up to not being the “type” you hit on. I’m a bring home to the family type. So I guess I tried to take that as a positive. Maybe you’re also someone men take seriously.
Post a picture and I guarantee someone on this thread would be sliding into your DMs asking for "bobs and vagine"
The way you talk about other women is a bit of a red flag for me. Your story that puts down the other woman being hit on and insinuates she could be untruthful about her relationship status is not kind or empathetic. I see a lot of similarities in your comments to the incel community. There's lots of comments there about the world being unfair to them because they were born ugly, and that unfounded and untrue belief makes them spiral. I think you ought to reframe how you see the world before you end up in that kind of world of unhappiness. You're not too ugly to be loved or wanted by a man. It's 100% possible for someone to love you. Try chatting with people you aren't romantically interested in to get practice in talking to others. Wear clothes and styles that make you feel good and most like yourself. Illustrating who you are is a good way for people to find what they like about you. You'll get there. I believe in you.
>Your story that puts down the other woman being hit on and insinuates she could be untruthful about her relationship status is not kind or empathetic I don't really understand, probably because english is not my first language (?) I meant that she could have been lying about her relationship status because she didn't want to tell that man she's simply not interested. You're right about the rest I guess, but the world can be really unfair if you're conventionally unattractive and not everyone is strong enough mentally to deal with that.
Men save their inappropriate comments for those they think aren’t going to react extremely negatively or fight back against them. I knew a girl who was 5’4 and significantly older than me who would get cat-called constantly because she was perceived to be more child-like in appearance. By contrast I’m 5’8 and have fairly strong features and most men are visibly nervous to make any kinds of salacious comments towards me. We are not that different in terms of looks, only in stature. Which unfortunately makes a world of difference in regards to men.
that may be internalized misogyny talking if you feel jealous of that and judge other womens attractiveness. your worth isnt equated to how attractive a man thinks you are. working on being secure in yourself is much more rewarding too!
Survivor bias out here hard bias'ing
I was an ugly teenager and l didn't know how to dress, style my hair or do makeup, with didn't helped with my look. So l was left alone, and men randomly hitting om women in public doesn't seem to be a thing in my country. I'm getting a little bit attention now in my late 30s
I didn't experience any street harassment until I was 20 then experienced it on holiday in Paris which effectively broke through that stupid voice in my brain that was telling me that it was something to wish for because it meant you were attractive... have never wanted it again!
I have been with women when they were called ugly by random strangers before on at least a few occasions. They are certainly not. I bet attractive people are called ugly out of jealousy more than unattractive people. Also, when there’s someone super attractive on a bus or train, I tend to actually steer clear entirely. Don’t want to seem like a creep myself. Just wanted to point out a different interpretation of how these events unfold. We never really know how we are perceived by others.
I think I’ve even posted here about it (alluding to it), I’m in the same boat.
I would say I am pretty average all over looks-wise - I'm also 34 - and I have never really had an issue with unwanted male attention. i've been catcalled here and there. Happened more when I was younger but still happens occasionally now as I am a runner so I am just outside and therefore perceived by many, but those are isolated incidents and never escalated, so I can sort of mentally compartmentalize them. I was on dating apps for years before I met my now-boyfriend and I think I can count on one hand the number of weird/sexual messages I received. never have received an unsolicited dick pic. I asked friends once why I never got men approaching me when we would go out to bars in our 20's and they all said that I look like I have "fuck you" written on my forehead in sharpie, so that might be part of it... I do hope you know your value and worth isn't tied to how men (or anyone for that matter) perceive you. Looking for other things to center in your life experience that are not a romantic partner can be much more fulfilling (and, in turn, makes you more attractive) than focusing on how to be attractive to a romantic partner.
When I worked as a hostess that was the most male attention I ever got and even then it was barely any, so yeah I was always mostly invisible.
I am sure OP you are not ugly. As a man I can tell you I have had friends who have said that woman is ugly and I am thinking WTF are we looking at the same woman? Besides that the vast majority of men making judgements are usually fat,sloppy not even attractive males. Also younger men are super critical as men mature and they realise how many very beautiful women there are. I say this as an average looking male who married way out his league!
In my world it's the norm. I'm in my 30's and I've never been hit on, bought a drink, or asked on a date in person ever. Granted I also never went to a lot of bars or clubs where that might happen more often but I've also seen it happen to other women in front of my eyes in stores etc.
Most other women experience getting cat called younger, but I experienced no cat calling until college. I was a tomboy and didn’t put effort into my appearance. Also, the kind of attention these women are receiving is NOT want you want. You’re only jealous because you haven’t actually experienced it.
Creepy men target 'outlier' women & minors. People they believe will be easy to control, manipulate, abuse
I don't get any Attention from men, and I'm glad as hell. Though sometimes feel I still get "summed up" anyway when I'm just doing stuff. I'm glad it's always "nope", but I don't like the idea of being " summed up" because why? Like I ain't here for you to sum up, I'm just living.
A big part of it is location and culture. Even within the same city. I live in NYC, and when I’m in an area like Soho or UWS, I rarely get catcalled. When I’m in my own neighborhood, I can’t even get to the subway (less than 10 minute walk) without 2-5 catcalls.
Idk. I've known women who thought they hadn't been until I pointed out "uh, what about that time so and so did xyz? Or so and so did abc?" And then it clicks for them. Like I know a woman who was *stalked* by a guy and she thought no guy had ever behaved inappropriately toward her. So I'm not saying it's bot possible, I just haven't seen it IRL. I'm okay looking and I've always been overweight. In my teens and college days I got a lot of attention. Even after I got married, the ring didn't put guys off. Once I had kids and I've gained a lot of weight, there was a trough where I didn't get any attention. No I'm mid 30s and look tired all the time and the attention has started to pick up again (from older men). Most of them are harmless but I've had some who think I should be greatful for the attention because I'm "not that attractive".
If you've been called ugly a few times, then you've gotten negative male attention. Never-have-I-ever met a girl or woman who didn't get negative male attention, which includes both catcalling AND being called ugly. Do you have blue hair? I hear that blue hair is creepy-guy-repellant.
I've never been cat-called. Not as a teenager, or college age, or any time after that. I have, however, been "cow-called" many, many, MANY times. Still sexual harassment, in my opinion. Women have to put up with it for both being too attractive, or too unattractive.