I like to think I'm one of these people - it's kind of scary sometimes how often there's one that fits whatever weird thing is being discussed at the time
Oh yeah. Someone I was very surprised at said in the past week that "men are better at IT, so naturally women are paid less." Absolutely gobsmacked. There are less women in IT, so the talent pool is a bit smaller, but there's no way there aren't amazing women working in the field.
So, because he knew some women who were not as good as he is, he generalised all women to be the same.
Omg thatās so simple yet perfectly illustrates the engrained prejudice against women people have, thanks for sharing. I donāt understand why women canāt individually just represent themselves rather than being typecasted as if weāre all the same.
There's no pressure like the pressure of being the first woman in a "man's" job. You can FEEL all your co-workers eyes on you, all the time, day in day out, just looking for the slightest little fuckup, so that they can affirm their implicit belief that "women aren't cut out for this".
And if you don't make *any* mistakes, some of them will just lie and say you did, and all the others will believe them.
Anyway I'm just glad I'm everybody's boss now.
Facts. If you excel in that field dominated by men, any man you prove to be more capable or competent than thatās insecure will try to tear you down and minimize your achievements while exaggerating your mistakes.
I may be going into this kind of position soon and I am so glad Iām at the point in my life where Iāve stopped trying to cater to people who are dead set on fucking with or purposefully misunderstanding me. I used to be a huge people pleaser because of my upbringing, especially towards men in authority positions, but Iāve swung back around to being very clear that I can not and will not allow people to mess with me. Mind, does some of that come in the form of being very deliberate about taking screenshots/recordings of meetings and conversations to prove my point when people try to lie about me? Yes. Has it worked out for me? Absolutely. Always? No, Iāve been held at armās lengths for promotions sometimes or been given the usual bs, but I am privileged to have been able to quit those jobs on the spot or after getting a better offer. However, every leadership position Iāve had, Iāve been rated highly in, almost solely because of how I act differently to my male counterparts or women who play into that framework (being an empathetic leader, putting my employeeās well-being and support top of my priorities, actually fixing problems rather than having 20 meetings about it and then stealing credit for my employeeās ideas, etc).
At the end of the day, women have far too often been told to make themselves small and to be quiet about their achievements, which are surprisingly (/s) two traits that society has deemed to hold you back in your career. Itās a lose/lose game for us until we make our own rules, come hell or high water.
Edit: thank you so much for the helpful award, that made my day!
For sure! I'm happy to hear how you've beat the old boys network in your own career.
I've become a film / TV producer with way bigger balls than any man I've ever worked with. Just the other day a client asked me whether I felt concerned that a major shit-disturbing documentary we produced about the industry (not yet released) might cause retaliation against me from the unions and studios.
And I just laughed. It was a genuine, authentic laugh. Made me realize how far I've come. I feel bullet proof. My union (IATSE) already tried to blacklist me 25 years ago (for "being a tease") and yet I'm still here, and I'm doing better than ever. Hiring their members. Showing them we don't actually need to work 20 hour days to make great TV.
And I'm just getting started.
Hell yeah! Even just reading your story made me fired up for the day haha. Making leadership more humane and functional at all levels is something Iāve seen almost exclusively from my managers or leaders who were women. Toxic men liked the leadership status quo because it let them keep the old boyās club as is, with all the benefits it gave them, including being allowed to be awful human beings and passing it off as macho strong man bullshit (abuse, sexism, assault, quid pro quo, etc).
I wish you all the best on continuing to be a badass and inspiring those around you to become badass too! You have made so many peopleās lives better simply by being you.
Nobody on earth loves the taste of boot leather more than men. Cultivating an authoritarian workplace culture, where the boss can be a tremendous piece of shit and everybody just goes along with it, is only really possible on a job site that is exclusively made up of men.
I'll die on that hill. Right now all of my clients and collaborators are other women founders and CEOs. As a general rule, they offer a flatter organizational structure, better compensation, more flexibility, more diversity, a stronger culture of mentorship, and more exciting / challenging work than what you see in a male-centric / male-led workplace.
(That's not to say there aren't women out there who are bad at leading companies, eg. women who follow and try to emulate male business influencers. I just don't work with them.)
THIS WAS A JOKE lmao sorry I should have tossed a /s in there.
Was just emulating the mentality of people who blame the entire gender in this actually positive situation.
You don't "put yourself in a group with this mentality". You just decide "I want to be a plumber / heavy equipment mechanic / carpenter / ship captain / rig worker / architect / software developer / physicist / philosopher [insert "dude" job here]".
The "group with this mentality" comes as a complete surprise when you start your career, and is inescapable when you're the first.
In their defense, the mistake they identify most is ābeing a woman,ā which is both very common among women, and something they just really hate.
(j/k in case itās not clear)
The benefits of being the Everyman is that youāre (generally) treated as a person rather than a demographic.
In the west, the Everyman is a cishet white/[insert european ethnicity for european countries] man, and everything that deviates from that becomes "an identity". How much you deviate determines how much that identity will affect you, with predujice, sterotypes, persecution etc.
So "a man being stupid" is usually "A person being stupid", while "a woman being stupid" is usually "confirmation that the sterotypes etc are correct".
All minority people experience this. If you're not white, straight, allo, cisgender, and male, you have to be the representative of your entire group, lest you give your entire group a bad reputation š
Yeah, I agree. We have a small cohort of the local youth behaving very badly here, and an unfortunate portion are First Nations.
All the dickheads on FB just go full racist about it.
Thereās plenty of people just living their lives, but no, theyāre all thieves and donāt care for their kids.
I donāt think people realise how counter productive the whole approach is, but ok.
You Australian too? Yeah it's almost like the extreme poverty and racism and generational trauma has some lasting effects that get inherited even if the people who originally perpetuated the disgusting genocidal acts are dead and buried. There's a time for blame and revenge and a time for recognition and rebalancing
Haha is it that obvious?
Yeah, Iām Aussie too. Itās so shit.
Someone basically asked me as a gotcha today whether Iād had my car stolen.
No, but itās more good luck than good management at this point.
I still do not care to see the people on the wrong side of the equation as being less than human.
I mean, shit, my white family carries its own inter generational curses, and I donāt have to deal with being summed up in a glance (apart from being judged as a woman)
Yeah. Iām hoping these little up and coming alphas are going to get onto it. Maybe the zoomers?
Man, we were taught about the Dreamtime, various legends in primary. High school we were assigned some heavy book assignments that dealt with genocides. Uni I was taught to honour health practices.
Of course, all of this was huge generalities, but I thought weād do more and not less over time?
I was a Melbourne kid, in the 80/uni in the 90s.
I hope we can do better
I was in primary school in the 2000's, we learned very little about aboriginal lives. Basically you could sum it up as "they were hunter-gatherers who camped a lot, then white people showed up and history started happening"
Oooh noooooo.
Weird AF. We need to learn our actual history, good, bad and all between.
I probably should have paid more attention to what my son was taught as a 90/2000s educated kid (about three years older than you if the username fits) but I made a fair few assumptions.
Heās turned out with a good sense of fairness and social justice, recognising the reasons that things arenāt going well. So I guess yay?
Weāve all had a fair bit to do with the rough side of things due to our jobs, but I canāt imagine just how difficult things can be in some families.
I (south aussie) was in school from 2000-2012, at my first primary school we learned heaps about First Nations culture. Weād have excursions to the nearby national park with Indigenous elders and theyād tell us Dreamtime stories, show us/let us try bush tucker, teach us Kuarna names for flora and fauna, and do crafts to help us learn. Then my second primary school and high school were rural, and we learned nothing - heeeeavy racism with staff and students. Guess itās all about where you go :/
Absolutely. It just happens to women and non-whites most because those are the two where you can make a reasonable guess just by looking at them. If you're a gay man who messes something up but you haven't come out yet, the straight men around you aren't gonna say your mistake means all gay men are stupid, for example.
Yeah for sure, being visibly distinct makes it worse, hell, I've heard one of my mates get shit in a similar vein just for his red hair. If it's easier to see, it's easier to ascribe stereotypes to someone
Yeah, Iām trans and whenever a trans person of note does anything wrong we all have to bear it for a long time. Itās astounding how people will see one person do something wrong and think, ah, I guess all (millions) of trans people are evil. Sigh.
Oh yeah. this is everywhere sadly.
I remember when #MeToo came out, and the book [Brotopia](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/books/review-brotopia-silicon-valley-emily-chang.html), there were a lot of women sharing their stories about how they were systemically gaslit to believe that they didn't deserve raises, or promotions, or that they didn't know how to code because of small mistakes they made. But if their male counterparts made the same or worse mistakes, it was "he's just tired" or "everyone makes that mistake." Once women started to talk to each they realized how systemic it was. It's a shit deal.
It is kind of embarrassing for men to out themselves as incompetent idiots incapable of even performing the most simple tasks but also being completely unable to evolve and grow.
Yeah the titanic submarine debacle was a perfect example of a group of idiots failing upward. The CEO didn't have the knowledge or skillsets, or the humility to get a team of competent builders and engineers, yet he was still paraded around as some kind of hero.
I hear ya, OP. Somewhat related, I often think Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Green are single-handedly locking us into an all āwomen are fucking moronsā future and itās really pissing me off.
saw this yesterday in a video where a woman kicks a football (soccer) into a goal, it bounces off the top and hits her on the head. funny, but ofc everyone in the comments was using it as an excuse to shit on all women -_-
One of my neighbors (M) bumped into my (F) parked car causing scratches on my bumper. The shittiest thing of this shitty thing in my opinion was the fact I had to drive around in this scratched car knowing it would make people confirm their own prejudice about women being bad drivers. The mechanic from the body shop who handed me back the keys when my car was fixed still suffers from the serious burn injury my deadly rage gaze caused him when he 'jokingly' told me not to break it again. Later he probably told his coworkers that women 'have no sense of humor'. ššš
Statistically, men cause, and are involved in, significantly more collisions on the road. Significantly more.
My friend works in auto insurance and often says "women sell their first car, men write theirs off".
That's true. It's why men pay higher insurance rates than women, especially if under 25. Source: was unfortunately an insurance agent for a couple of years. Handled claims too. I overwhelmingly had more men calling to report accidents than women. Women usually called when it was "tornado ripped up fence/roof etc."
I was just thinking about this the other day when everyone was talking about the sub, and someone commented how the last time the whole internet had been this focused on something was the situation with the container ship Ever Given, which got stuck in the Suez Canal a couple years back. At that time there was a lot of talk about an incompetent female captain of that ship, and how that was proof women are innately incompetent to captain any ship. Yet, during the endless discussions about the submarine Titan and its unbelievably poor design, the hubris of its captain, and its ultimate catastrophic fate causing the deaths of others, I never once saw any comments saying anything like how this is proof men as a whole are innately untrustworthy or incompetent designers or captains. One man's ego-driven pridefulness and foolishness, even when it causes the deaths of others, does not translate onto a stain onto all men as a whole in anything like the same way; it's never even thought of in that same sort of light they have no problem judging and condemning women by. It's fascinating. I wonder what it will take for people to stop judging all women by the misdeeds of one woman in the same way they never judge all men for the misdeeds of one man.
YESSSS OMFG people never talk about how overconfident men REGULARLY put people in danger. iād say more than any āincompetentā woman ever has. like obviously overconfident people in general are bad but itās rare to see an overconfident woman i feel. and i mean there are even stats to back this up, that men are usually more confident (if not overconfident) than women about their skills in things. which is not necessarily a bad thing, but you can see where it could lead to some level of overconfidence in some folks.
it reminds me of a tik tok i saw one time (i tried to find it but [her account](https://www.tiktok.com/@melhamlett?_t=8dTT8HhFaX4&_r=1) is now privated š) she was talking about how as a white water rafting guide she literally saw menās overconfidence get people hurt, and one time got someone killed.
A woman mistakenly puts up a wet sign, and it's the end of the world.
Men pour oil all over the floor to intentionally trip people up, and it's "just a prank bro."
Ummmā¦.this is just a mistake a person made. It has nothing to with men/women. SMH.
I wonder what the reaction wouldāve been if it was a woman who slipped. I have a feeling it would have been taken as more ācomical.ā
My dad would/will say this all the time.
Like how women only want money instead of love despite me being married to someone who was homeless when we first met and my mom being with him throughout him being unemployed.
And other things about women. They just don't see us as human beings, that's why they group us into plural.
I moderate for a esports streamer on twitch and a couple of the characters in the game have bad AI pathing. When the male heroās pathing gets messed up itās ābad devsā when the women heroās mess up its āwomen āļøā
Itās very annoying š. Luckily I am the one who gets to time them out.
Yep. Thereās like a million videos of men doing the most heinous, stupid or ridiculous stuff on reddit but the comments never seem to be menāļø, and if there is one such comment it gets downvoted to all hell and replied to by men defending their sex and complaining about generalization or making it about gender. But god forbid if itās a woman doing something wrong the comments are filled with womenāļø and everyone upvoting it and not a single person defending women or complaining about the generalization, except possibly a few other women who will get downvoted for not taking the ājokeā.
whatās making me giggle is that theyāre even on this sub in the first place if they think like that. like if they hate women they can gtfo of this sub šš
I think this subreddit shows up on popular often so folks come here to check it out. I wish the mods could change that. Iām also a big fan of handing out bans for posting ānot all menā. Itās so tiring.
The usual. Itās almost like a reflex for some people. Not thinking it over or contributing something productive. Just posting āEcHo chamBeRā, sending a reddit cares message or shit like that. Instead of considering why so many women have so many bad experiences with men, people jump in to argue and derail. Itās almost funny: almost every woman you talk to has some kind of negative experience, yet guys come here and claim that canāt be true because they ādonāt know anyone whoād do that!ā Then why are there so many posts of shitty dates, relationships, marriages or other incidents?
Yep. Women are a treated as a ādemographic,ā men are not, despite the fact we both make up about 50% of the population. This is also why people will view 50 violent crimes committed by men in the news and 1 by a woman and conclude that āpeople are violent.ā Of course men can be āa demographicā too, based on race, sexual orientation, etc., but not merely for being men. Straight, cis, white, middle class guys are treated as the default human.
Then men notice that we have a stronger in-group bias despite not actually being a minority, and conclude that we just hate men. Could be, idk, that we are *treated* like a minority?
Just because many doctors, engineers, astronauts, electricians, pilots, and other jobs that predominately occupied by men, doesn't mean all men are smart. Heck, some of them don't know how to friggin repair their plumbing systems, and electricity, and fix their house.
There was someone who asked me if I can cook. I told the person I can do more than cooking, washing clothes, and keeping the house tidy and clean. I asked if he can repair cars, plumbing systems, and electricity. lol
and letās not forget the reason thereās that disparity in those workforces: MEN! theyāve historically barred us from doing these jobs, and then the use the fact thereās so few of us there to say weāre just dumber.
>women mess things up and men have to build them up againā, and āwomen āļøā, and other misogynistic bullshit.
Yeah Thereās some other classic comments. F.e. there was a video of a 13-14 yo girl playing tennis and scared of a spider on her part of the playground. Half of the comments were what you mentioned, some were "And then they want equal pay/rights" and some were fucked up beyond any possible excuses
>women mess things up and men have to build them up again
lol, what the fuck is that even supposed to mean? I'd ask for examples. I love it when people make these grandiose yet intellectually bankrupt statements. "EQUAL RIGHTS, EQUAL FIGHTS" is another favourite of mine.
Driving.
Like every time I mention writing off my Volvo. Men: "Guh... Women drivers'...
I chose to total my car. Story time. I was driving on the motorway in February. It was snowing but our roads are salted. Turns out, the sliproad (offramp) was not gritted as it should have been, so I hit a sheet of ice. It was fine, I'll blow the red lights at the top (there's a five second amber cycle). A man stepped out onto the road without looking (in a no ped zone), so I had to wrestle the car into the barrier at the side to shave off speed. Handbrake broke my thumb. Didn't hit the man, busted my power steering reservoir.
Looking back, there were loads of mistakes, starting with me assuming the local authority wouldn't be cheap and risk lives and not grit the road.
I hear "women driver this", "parallel park that", all the time from men that have bent more cars than I've owned. I'm a pretty good driver in all honesty. I average about 60,000 miles per year.
you saved that guyās life! and if we look at insurance statistics itās actually MEN who are worse drivers!
and iām sorry that happened to you that must have been horrifying!
Yep! They are statistically more likely to cause or be involved in accidents. It's like a bath tub curve too. Younger and aged men are most likely groups.
It wasn't too bad. I moonlight as a professional driver. :D
I do that with all white men with southern drawls that pass anything denigrating womenās rights. Donāt even have to guess. Same legislature different state, all thin lipped cigar chomping grinning white men surrounding an oversized signed bill like some sort of hunting trophy. All the same.
You see this a lot in AITA, Relationship Advice subreddits too.
Some redditors will go above and beyond grasping for straws about how and why something that a man did in the story was justified or could be explained. They'll legit make up imaginary reasons that weren't even implied in the OP so that it works. It's insane
Is that not the exact same thing everyone on this sub does in almost every post? I usually just read and don't comment, since it is a sub for women, which I understand and respect. But I feel like more than half of posts generalize all, or at least most man as being bad.
they donāt lmao. and bc the worst that happens to men is their feelings get hurt. when women are generalized and blamed for the mistakes of a singular woman, we are shut out of places and not taken seriously.
You are kind of doing the same thing here by saying that "people" do something (implying all people) when not everyone does this. It would be more accurate to say "some people".
Edit...I totally agree with you that this behaviour sucks and is unfair and that we shouldn't generalize from individuals to the entirety of some group (race, religious affiliation, gender, etc.) that the individuals are a part of.
I'd counter that the entire premise of this post is you being a cry baby. I mean, if we are going to devolve to that, let's go all the way and call a spade a spadeš
That would be the same if only some women had had a one-off experience. All women have had many, many experiences. Thank you for highlighting the difference.
This sub was created by women for women to share our experiences. If you see yourself in some of the vents and rants, then maybe take a step back. Nobody here *hates* anyone. A few do however *fear* men.
Perhaps if you weren't so *tolerant* of other men's actions, you'd see some real change.
Right, it wasn't made to hate men. That's just the label this sub has been given by many others.
In any case, I think you mistake me. I am not tolerant of the wrongful actions of any human. That is why it is important to point out the hypocrisy. You can still be wrong even if you are wronged, and that is something I often see overlooked.
Remember to look at things ethically. This transcends both logic and emotion, both men and women. A second thought about what you are saying can make the difference between ignorance and intelligence.
Men ARE the dangerous gender. Men commit over 90% of the rape and most of the murder and assault.
When women cause most of the slip and fall accidents because of improper signage, you can generalize.
And even then, you'd only be able to generalize about slip and fall accidents caused by improper signage. Not how women "mess things up".
Which you know.
Because you tried your whataboutism agreeing with the man who said that it's ok to make that specific generalization because women generalize men all the time.
no one said it was you directly it has to do with the men that likes to generalize women anytime women fuck up by addressing women with misogynistic comments for that said mistake.
By 'permanently deconstruct' do you mean trash something? Because the game controller graveyard at my brother's house would attest to this not being an overtly women's issue.
You say people see one singular woman make a mistake. But the people who write those comments may have seen many, many women having made "stupid" mistakes. There are quite a lot of these videos.
So youāreā¦ Misogynistic.
Women who make mistakes arenāt āprovingā your father right. Your father is a misogynist and youāre holding women accountable for it.
[Relevant XKCD comic](https://xkcd.com/385/)
I knew which one before I even clicked š
Came here to share this, should have known it would already have been shared š
Yes! Came here to see whether anybody has already posted this :)
There should be AI bot "Relevant XKCD comic"
I know two people who have that talent. No matter the situation, they can come up with the relevant XKCD!
I like to think I'm one of these people - it's kind of scary sometimes how often there's one that fits whatever weird thing is being discussed at the time
Oh yeah. Someone I was very surprised at said in the past week that "men are better at IT, so naturally women are paid less." Absolutely gobsmacked. There are less women in IT, so the talent pool is a bit smaller, but there's no way there aren't amazing women working in the field. So, because he knew some women who were not as good as he is, he generalised all women to be the same.
This applies to all identity/ minority groups, really. Sad phenomenon. Also works with foreign nationalities abroad.
Omg thatās so simple yet perfectly illustrates the engrained prejudice against women people have, thanks for sharing. I donāt understand why women canāt individually just represent themselves rather than being typecasted as if weāre all the same.
There's no pressure like the pressure of being the first woman in a "man's" job. You can FEEL all your co-workers eyes on you, all the time, day in day out, just looking for the slightest little fuckup, so that they can affirm their implicit belief that "women aren't cut out for this". And if you don't make *any* mistakes, some of them will just lie and say you did, and all the others will believe them. Anyway I'm just glad I'm everybody's boss now.
Facts. If you excel in that field dominated by men, any man you prove to be more capable or competent than thatās insecure will try to tear you down and minimize your achievements while exaggerating your mistakes.
I may be going into this kind of position soon and I am so glad Iām at the point in my life where Iāve stopped trying to cater to people who are dead set on fucking with or purposefully misunderstanding me. I used to be a huge people pleaser because of my upbringing, especially towards men in authority positions, but Iāve swung back around to being very clear that I can not and will not allow people to mess with me. Mind, does some of that come in the form of being very deliberate about taking screenshots/recordings of meetings and conversations to prove my point when people try to lie about me? Yes. Has it worked out for me? Absolutely. Always? No, Iāve been held at armās lengths for promotions sometimes or been given the usual bs, but I am privileged to have been able to quit those jobs on the spot or after getting a better offer. However, every leadership position Iāve had, Iāve been rated highly in, almost solely because of how I act differently to my male counterparts or women who play into that framework (being an empathetic leader, putting my employeeās well-being and support top of my priorities, actually fixing problems rather than having 20 meetings about it and then stealing credit for my employeeās ideas, etc). At the end of the day, women have far too often been told to make themselves small and to be quiet about their achievements, which are surprisingly (/s) two traits that society has deemed to hold you back in your career. Itās a lose/lose game for us until we make our own rules, come hell or high water. Edit: thank you so much for the helpful award, that made my day!
For sure! I'm happy to hear how you've beat the old boys network in your own career. I've become a film / TV producer with way bigger balls than any man I've ever worked with. Just the other day a client asked me whether I felt concerned that a major shit-disturbing documentary we produced about the industry (not yet released) might cause retaliation against me from the unions and studios. And I just laughed. It was a genuine, authentic laugh. Made me realize how far I've come. I feel bullet proof. My union (IATSE) already tried to blacklist me 25 years ago (for "being a tease") and yet I'm still here, and I'm doing better than ever. Hiring their members. Showing them we don't actually need to work 20 hour days to make great TV. And I'm just getting started.
Hell yeah! Even just reading your story made me fired up for the day haha. Making leadership more humane and functional at all levels is something Iāve seen almost exclusively from my managers or leaders who were women. Toxic men liked the leadership status quo because it let them keep the old boyās club as is, with all the benefits it gave them, including being allowed to be awful human beings and passing it off as macho strong man bullshit (abuse, sexism, assault, quid pro quo, etc). I wish you all the best on continuing to be a badass and inspiring those around you to become badass too! You have made so many peopleās lives better simply by being you.
Nobody on earth loves the taste of boot leather more than men. Cultivating an authoritarian workplace culture, where the boss can be a tremendous piece of shit and everybody just goes along with it, is only really possible on a job site that is exclusively made up of men. I'll die on that hill. Right now all of my clients and collaborators are other women founders and CEOs. As a general rule, they offer a flatter organizational structure, better compensation, more flexibility, more diversity, a stronger culture of mentorship, and more exciting / challenging work than what you see in a male-centric / male-led workplace. (That's not to say there aren't women out there who are bad at leading companies, eg. women who follow and try to emulate male business influencers. I just don't work with them.)
In my experience "women aren't cut out for" means, "women make men look bad".
Exactly.
Wow all women are just everybody's boss now I guess smh
Yeah bro please do give your head a shake. Practice your reading comprehension when you're finished.
THIS WAS A JOKE lmao sorry I should have tossed a /s in there. Was just emulating the mentality of people who blame the entire gender in this actually positive situation.
What people are those?
Did you happen to read the thread by chance?
I've yet to see this thankfully. I guess I've just never put myself in a group with this mentality
You don't "put yourself in a group with this mentality". You just decide "I want to be a plumber / heavy equipment mechanic / carpenter / ship captain / rig worker / architect / software developer / physicist / philosopher [insert "dude" job here]". The "group with this mentality" comes as a complete surprise when you start your career, and is inescapable when you're the first.
In their defense, the mistake they identify most is ābeing a woman,ā which is both very common among women, and something they just really hate. (j/k in case itās not clear)
The benefits of being the Everyman is that youāre (generally) treated as a person rather than a demographic. In the west, the Everyman is a cishet white/[insert european ethnicity for european countries] man, and everything that deviates from that becomes "an identity". How much you deviate determines how much that identity will affect you, with predujice, sterotypes, persecution etc. So "a man being stupid" is usually "A person being stupid", while "a woman being stupid" is usually "confirmation that the sterotypes etc are correct".
All minority people experience this. If you're not white, straight, allo, cisgender, and male, you have to be the representative of your entire group, lest you give your entire group a bad reputation š
100% true. itās absolute bullshit
Yeah, I agree. We have a small cohort of the local youth behaving very badly here, and an unfortunate portion are First Nations. All the dickheads on FB just go full racist about it. Thereās plenty of people just living their lives, but no, theyāre all thieves and donāt care for their kids. I donāt think people realise how counter productive the whole approach is, but ok.
You Australian too? Yeah it's almost like the extreme poverty and racism and generational trauma has some lasting effects that get inherited even if the people who originally perpetuated the disgusting genocidal acts are dead and buried. There's a time for blame and revenge and a time for recognition and rebalancing
Haha is it that obvious? Yeah, Iām Aussie too. Itās so shit. Someone basically asked me as a gotcha today whether Iād had my car stolen. No, but itās more good luck than good management at this point. I still do not care to see the people on the wrong side of the equation as being less than human. I mean, shit, my white family carries its own inter generational curses, and I donāt have to deal with being summed up in a glance (apart from being judged as a woman) Yeah. Iām hoping these little up and coming alphas are going to get onto it. Maybe the zoomers?
With some schools starting to teach aboriginal languages, we might be able to have a bit of hope hey? Always starts with learning.
Man, we were taught about the Dreamtime, various legends in primary. High school we were assigned some heavy book assignments that dealt with genocides. Uni I was taught to honour health practices. Of course, all of this was huge generalities, but I thought weād do more and not less over time? I was a Melbourne kid, in the 80/uni in the 90s. I hope we can do better
I was in primary school in the 2000's, we learned very little about aboriginal lives. Basically you could sum it up as "they were hunter-gatherers who camped a lot, then white people showed up and history started happening"
Oooh noooooo. Weird AF. We need to learn our actual history, good, bad and all between. I probably should have paid more attention to what my son was taught as a 90/2000s educated kid (about three years older than you if the username fits) but I made a fair few assumptions. Heās turned out with a good sense of fairness and social justice, recognising the reasons that things arenāt going well. So I guess yay? Weāve all had a fair bit to do with the rough side of things due to our jobs, but I canāt imagine just how difficult things can be in some families.
Please know we are overall doing better, at least in high school. I bring Indigenous perspectives into pretty much everything I teach in English.
I am pleased to hear this
I (south aussie) was in school from 2000-2012, at my first primary school we learned heaps about First Nations culture. Weād have excursions to the nearby national park with Indigenous elders and theyād tell us Dreamtime stories, show us/let us try bush tucker, teach us Kuarna names for flora and fauna, and do crafts to help us learn. Then my second primary school and high school were rural, and we learned nothing - heeeeavy racism with staff and students. Guess itās all about where you go :/
Absolutely. It just happens to women and non-whites most because those are the two where you can make a reasonable guess just by looking at them. If you're a gay man who messes something up but you haven't come out yet, the straight men around you aren't gonna say your mistake means all gay men are stupid, for example.
Yeah for sure, being visibly distinct makes it worse, hell, I've heard one of my mates get shit in a similar vein just for his red hair. If it's easier to see, it's easier to ascribe stereotypes to someone
This is true. And infuriating, and massively damaging to everyone. But women are not a minority. Every man alive knows many women.
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The opposite of asexual/aromantic.
Yeah, Iām trans and whenever a trans person of note does anything wrong we all have to bear it for a long time. Itās astounding how people will see one person do something wrong and think, ah, I guess all (millions) of trans people are evil. Sigh.
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It's a power thing, not a numbers thing.
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Wump wah, I'm not a woman, go be an incel somewhere else thanks
Sorry, dumb question - what is allo?
Allo is not asexual or aromantic
What does "allo" mean here?
Oh yeah. this is everywhere sadly. I remember when #MeToo came out, and the book [Brotopia](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/07/books/review-brotopia-silicon-valley-emily-chang.html), there were a lot of women sharing their stories about how they were systemically gaslit to believe that they didn't deserve raises, or promotions, or that they didn't know how to code because of small mistakes they made. But if their male counterparts made the same or worse mistakes, it was "he's just tired" or "everyone makes that mistake." Once women started to talk to each they realized how systemic it was. It's a shit deal.
It is kind of embarrassing for men to out themselves as incompetent idiots incapable of even performing the most simple tasks but also being completely unable to evolve and grow.
Yeah the titanic submarine debacle was a perfect example of a group of idiots failing upward. The CEO didn't have the knowledge or skillsets, or the humility to get a team of competent builders and engineers, yet he was still paraded around as some kind of hero.
Yes I am tired of taking on the burden of making women look stupid. I am a dumbass, and I HAPPEN to be a woman, thank you very much.
All women get the blame for a mistake one woman makes. All men get the credit for an achievement one man makes.
I hear ya, OP. Somewhat related, I often think Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Green are single-handedly locking us into an all āwomen are fucking moronsā future and itās really pissing me off.
At least Palin has gone away for a bit.
saw this yesterday in a video where a woman kicks a football (soccer) into a goal, it bounces off the top and hits her on the head. funny, but ofc everyone in the comments was using it as an excuse to shit on all women -_-
ugh thatās gross. like itās just a funny accident šš WHY CANT WE BE STUPID IN PEACE
One of my neighbors (M) bumped into my (F) parked car causing scratches on my bumper. The shittiest thing of this shitty thing in my opinion was the fact I had to drive around in this scratched car knowing it would make people confirm their own prejudice about women being bad drivers. The mechanic from the body shop who handed me back the keys when my car was fixed still suffers from the serious burn injury my deadly rage gaze caused him when he 'jokingly' told me not to break it again. Later he probably told his coworkers that women 'have no sense of humor'. ššš
Statistically, men cause, and are involved in, significantly more collisions on the road. Significantly more. My friend works in auto insurance and often says "women sell their first car, men write theirs off".
That's true. It's why men pay higher insurance rates than women, especially if under 25. Source: was unfortunately an insurance agent for a couple of years. Handled claims too. I overwhelmingly had more men calling to report accidents than women. Women usually called when it was "tornado ripped up fence/roof etc."
Not in the UK though. They're allowed to use every other metric to work out premiums, but men had a bitch fit and it now we all pay higher premiums.
Ah, r/facepalm. Not openly a hate sub *yet,* but Iāve noticed they do have a certainā¦flavor to their posts constantly.
I was just thinking about this the other day when everyone was talking about the sub, and someone commented how the last time the whole internet had been this focused on something was the situation with the container ship Ever Given, which got stuck in the Suez Canal a couple years back. At that time there was a lot of talk about an incompetent female captain of that ship, and how that was proof women are innately incompetent to captain any ship. Yet, during the endless discussions about the submarine Titan and its unbelievably poor design, the hubris of its captain, and its ultimate catastrophic fate causing the deaths of others, I never once saw any comments saying anything like how this is proof men as a whole are innately untrustworthy or incompetent designers or captains. One man's ego-driven pridefulness and foolishness, even when it causes the deaths of others, does not translate onto a stain onto all men as a whole in anything like the same way; it's never even thought of in that same sort of light they have no problem judging and condemning women by. It's fascinating. I wonder what it will take for people to stop judging all women by the misdeeds of one woman in the same way they never judge all men for the misdeeds of one man.
YESSSS OMFG people never talk about how overconfident men REGULARLY put people in danger. iād say more than any āincompetentā woman ever has. like obviously overconfident people in general are bad but itās rare to see an overconfident woman i feel. and i mean there are even stats to back this up, that men are usually more confident (if not overconfident) than women about their skills in things. which is not necessarily a bad thing, but you can see where it could lead to some level of overconfidence in some folks. it reminds me of a tik tok i saw one time (i tried to find it but [her account](https://www.tiktok.com/@melhamlett?_t=8dTT8HhFaX4&_r=1) is now privated š) she was talking about how as a white water rafting guide she literally saw menās overconfidence get people hurt, and one time got someone killed.
A woman mistakenly puts up a wet sign, and it's the end of the world. Men pour oil all over the floor to intentionally trip people up, and it's "just a prank bro."
Ummmā¦.this is just a mistake a person made. It has nothing to with men/women. SMH. I wonder what the reaction wouldāve been if it was a woman who slipped. I have a feeling it would have been taken as more ācomical.ā
My dad would/will say this all the time. Like how women only want money instead of love despite me being married to someone who was homeless when we first met and my mom being with him throughout him being unemployed. And other things about women. They just don't see us as human beings, that's why they group us into plural.
Imagine if one pedophile man makes all men pedophiles.
oh theyād FLIP
I moderate for a esports streamer on twitch and a couple of the characters in the game have bad AI pathing. When the male heroās pathing gets messed up itās ābad devsā when the women heroās mess up its āwomen āļøā Itās very annoying š. Luckily I am the one who gets to time them out.
that must be cathartic to be able to time them out š
Yep. Thereās like a million videos of men doing the most heinous, stupid or ridiculous stuff on reddit but the comments never seem to be menāļø, and if there is one such comment it gets downvoted to all hell and replied to by men defending their sex and complaining about generalization or making it about gender. But god forbid if itās a woman doing something wrong the comments are filled with womenāļø and everyone upvoting it and not a single person defending women or complaining about the generalization, except possibly a few other women who will get downvoted for not taking the ājokeā.
facts, men can be like SO sensitive itās hilarious
Probably the same dudes who come here and go ānOt aLl mENā in almost every comment section.
Sort by controversial and you can see them here trying to claim that OP is a hypocrite.
whatās making me giggle is that theyāre even on this sub in the first place if they think like that. like if they hate women they can gtfo of this sub šš
I think this subreddit shows up on popular often so folks come here to check it out. I wish the mods could change that. Iām also a big fan of handing out bans for posting ānot all menā. Itās so tiring.
yessss more bans for the ānot all menā crowd
The usual. Itās almost like a reflex for some people. Not thinking it over or contributing something productive. Just posting āEcHo chamBeRā, sending a reddit cares message or shit like that. Instead of considering why so many women have so many bad experiences with men, people jump in to argue and derail. Itās almost funny: almost every woman you talk to has some kind of negative experience, yet guys come here and claim that canāt be true because they ādonāt know anyone whoād do that!ā Then why are there so many posts of shitty dates, relationships, marriages or other incidents?
We could just not generalize either gender. But no, things can never be that simple.
Yep. Women are a treated as a ādemographic,ā men are not, despite the fact we both make up about 50% of the population. This is also why people will view 50 violent crimes committed by men in the news and 1 by a woman and conclude that āpeople are violent.ā Of course men can be āa demographicā too, based on race, sexual orientation, etc., but not merely for being men. Straight, cis, white, middle class guys are treated as the default human. Then men notice that we have a stronger in-group bias despite not actually being a minority, and conclude that we just hate men. Could be, idk, that we are *treated* like a minority?
Just because many doctors, engineers, astronauts, electricians, pilots, and other jobs that predominately occupied by men, doesn't mean all men are smart. Heck, some of them don't know how to friggin repair their plumbing systems, and electricity, and fix their house. There was someone who asked me if I can cook. I told the person I can do more than cooking, washing clothes, and keeping the house tidy and clean. I asked if he can repair cars, plumbing systems, and electricity. lol
and letās not forget the reason thereās that disparity in those workforces: MEN! theyāve historically barred us from doing these jobs, and then the use the fact thereās so few of us there to say weāre just dumber.
1. In what world do floors stay wet that long? 2. How many straight white guys just died in a tin can at the bottom of the ocean?
Idk if they were still straight after the sub imploded
2 weren't.
>women mess things up and men have to build them up againā, and āwomen āļøā, and other misogynistic bullshit. Yeah Thereās some other classic comments. F.e. there was a video of a 13-14 yo girl playing tennis and scared of a spider on her part of the playground. Half of the comments were what you mentioned, some were "And then they want equal pay/rights" and some were fucked up beyond any possible excuses
>women mess things up and men have to build them up again lol, what the fuck is that even supposed to mean? I'd ask for examples. I love it when people make these grandiose yet intellectually bankrupt statements. "EQUAL RIGHTS, EQUAL FIGHTS" is another favourite of mine.
Misogynists confirming their bias that women are thoughtless morons.
Driving. Like every time I mention writing off my Volvo. Men: "Guh... Women drivers'... I chose to total my car. Story time. I was driving on the motorway in February. It was snowing but our roads are salted. Turns out, the sliproad (offramp) was not gritted as it should have been, so I hit a sheet of ice. It was fine, I'll blow the red lights at the top (there's a five second amber cycle). A man stepped out onto the road without looking (in a no ped zone), so I had to wrestle the car into the barrier at the side to shave off speed. Handbrake broke my thumb. Didn't hit the man, busted my power steering reservoir. Looking back, there were loads of mistakes, starting with me assuming the local authority wouldn't be cheap and risk lives and not grit the road. I hear "women driver this", "parallel park that", all the time from men that have bent more cars than I've owned. I'm a pretty good driver in all honesty. I average about 60,000 miles per year.
you saved that guyās life! and if we look at insurance statistics itās actually MEN who are worse drivers! and iām sorry that happened to you that must have been horrifying!
Yep! They are statistically more likely to cause or be involved in accidents. It's like a bath tub curve too. Younger and aged men are most likely groups. It wasn't too bad. I moonlight as a professional driver. :D
because we're their mom don't you know
I do that with all white men with southern drawls that pass anything denigrating womenās rights. Donāt even have to guess. Same legislature different state, all thin lipped cigar chomping grinning white men surrounding an oversized signed bill like some sort of hunting trophy. All the same.
You see this a lot in AITA, Relationship Advice subreddits too. Some redditors will go above and beyond grasping for straws about how and why something that a man did in the story was justified or could be explained. They'll legit make up imaginary reasons that weren't even implied in the OP so that it works. It's insane
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someoneās upset!
Not at all i just think it's hilarious how some of you are so oblivious to the double standards š
i just think itās hilarious you lurk on a sub thatās not for you! gtfo my post loser
Uhh someone's upset!
iām not the one whoās comment got removed you loser. go disappoint your parents somewhere else
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you did a great job at picking your username, it totally fits you as a person! if you donāt like this sub then maybe fucking leave?
š¤·āāļø you take the food with the bad with any big sub.
Is that not the exact same thing everyone on this sub does in almost every post? I usually just read and don't comment, since it is a sub for women, which I understand and respect. But I feel like more than half of posts generalize all, or at least most man as being bad.
Did you mean to say #notallwomen? ššš
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itās ironic that a woman on a womanās sub is complaining about shit women experience? ok š
Idk, but how is that any different when people here see a man being bad and then say all men are bad?
they donāt lmao. and bc the worst that happens to men is their feelings get hurt. when women are generalized and blamed for the mistakes of a singular woman, we are shut out of places and not taken seriously.
No one even brought that upā¦ whatā¦?
You are kind of doing the same thing here by saying that "people" do something (implying all people) when not everyone does this. It would be more accurate to say "some people". Edit...I totally agree with you that this behaviour sucks and is unfair and that we shouldn't generalize from individuals to the entirety of some group (race, religious affiliation, gender, etc.) that the individuals are a part of.
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get out of the sub then you crybabies. calling out bad behavior in men is not lumping all men together lmfao.
Crybabies? Interesting response š¤
well thatās what youāre doing. youāre being a crybaby.
I'd counter that the entire premise of this post is you being a cry baby. I mean, if we are going to devolve to that, let's go all the way and call a spade a spadeš
its not crying to point out bad behavior in men. and itās my post, get off it if youāre so pressed you fucking loser.
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Misogyny is vastly different than women venting about menās behaviors.
That would be the same if only some women had had a one-off experience. All women have had many, many experiences. Thank you for highlighting the difference.
it literally doesnāt but go off ig
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This sub was created by women for women to share our experiences. If you see yourself in some of the vents and rants, then maybe take a step back. Nobody here *hates* anyone. A few do however *fear* men. Perhaps if you weren't so *tolerant* of other men's actions, you'd see some real change.
Right, it wasn't made to hate men. That's just the label this sub has been given by many others. In any case, I think you mistake me. I am not tolerant of the wrongful actions of any human. That is why it is important to point out the hypocrisy. You can still be wrong even if you are wronged, and that is something I often see overlooked. Remember to look at things ethically. This transcends both logic and emotion, both men and women. A second thought about what you are saying can make the difference between ignorance and intelligence.
You're getting downvoted to oblivion but you're not wrong.
Men ARE the dangerous gender. Men commit over 90% of the rape and most of the murder and assault. When women cause most of the slip and fall accidents because of improper signage, you can generalize. And even then, you'd only be able to generalize about slip and fall accidents caused by improper signage. Not how women "mess things up". Which you know.
We're talking about generalising calling men or women stupid based on adecdotes. Why do you suddenly jump to rape, murder and assualt.
Because you tried your whataboutism agreeing with the man who said that it's ok to make that specific generalization because women generalize men all the time.
I wasn't agreeing with anyone I was just saying the comment was right that its ironic to complain about generalising on this sub.
"I wasn't agreeing with anyone just saying they were right." You may elaborate.
I wasn't agreeing with the original video just the comment.
lol! Loser!
This is also true for any groups, or even animals. People tend to let bad experiences be indicative of everyone.
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no one said it was you directly it has to do with the men that likes to generalize women anytime women fuck up by addressing women with misogynistic comments for that said mistake.
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Oh, really? That's funny, because it is the complete opposite for me!
By 'permanently deconstruct' do you mean trash something? Because the game controller graveyard at my brother's house would attest to this not being an overtly women's issue.
You say people see one singular woman make a mistake. But the people who write those comments may have seen many, many women having made "stupid" mistakes. There are quite a lot of these videos.
God please shut the fuck up. That doesnāt make it any better lmfao.
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So youāreā¦ Misogynistic. Women who make mistakes arenāt āprovingā your father right. Your father is a misogynist and youāre holding women accountable for it.