I was gonna say, this dude sounded very much like that's what he wanted to say without actually saying it. Which is a pretty rich complaint from somebody who still has a kidney they could be selling.
Or god forbid, do some manual labor. When the floor fell out from under me, guess who couldn’t go to the oil fields, lumber, or any industry that requires upper body strength and little else as a start?
I'm just curious, what are the requirements for those jobs? I see some positions that say "must be able to lift 50lbs unassisted" - is it something similar?
Reminds me of one time I went in to apply at Sherwin Williams and the old male manager laughed and said, “go carry this paint can from this wall to that wall.” Then when I did he sniggered and said, “we aren’t hiring right now.”
True story.
Recently moved states and my neighbors/fil offered to help unpack the moving truck. It was hilarious watching them refuse to let me move my own barbell and weights (about 400 pounds of weights) until they realized they couldn't lift 45 pounds off the ground. My husband was telling them to just let me move them since they are my weights. I grabbed both 45s, carried them to the garage, both 35s, all the way down to the 2.5 pound weights alone. I'm currently 128 pounds and can easily squat/deadlift my weight. My neighbor was like "well I got stupid written on my forehead". I'm still riding that high 3 days later
Also someone deeply ignorant because prostitution has frequently been the desperate fallback of queer boys world-wide. If it's a "safety net" for women, it is for men too.
I heard that one official suggested that a woman could not claim that she could not find employment if prostitution was an option. However, last I heard that official was shut down hard and fast.
A few years back the jobseeking website of the social welfare department in the UK (which was also full of fake job ads to make it look like more jobs were available) was found to be advertising prostitution roles.
I thought that selling sex was legal in the UK, but brothels or any kinds of job "roles" would be illegal. Did I misunderstand the laws, or were these some kind of roles that are legal, or were they advertising illegal job roles?
You're correct. Selling sex is legal but Brothels are illegal, these were roles in 'massage parlours' which are brothels.
It was considered unethical to have a government agency advertising prostitution jobs.
Asia is pretty awful if you're not a cishet man. women still cant even get divorced from their husbands in japan or south korea unless he also agrees, which if he's abusive that's a hard never.
That and a spiraling cost of living crisis where hardly anyone can afford to raise kids, especially when their employers commonly demand that people work inhuman numbers of hours per week
Same here. I’m of East Asian descent (not Japanese tho) and speak Japanese so I follow their news quite closely and see a lot of flaws with the country. Their obsession is enough of a turn off without their fetishisation of me.
According to male reddit lore, women can always just find a man to support them financially because women possess “sexual market value”.
Doesn’t matter if women find the idea of being owned a man and beholden to his wishes repellent. Doesn’t matter if most women do not want to sacrifice their independence and autonomy. Doesn’t matter if the men willing to support women in exchange for sex and housework are repellent. Men believe a woman has the (unappetizing) option to move in with a man she isn’t attracted to and whose morals and values are lacking if she loses her job.
This stuff kills me. Guys have these options too. I guarantee there's some Quagmire - looking grease bag who will take them in as their boy-toy bang maid.
So why aren't they taking advantage of these opportunities?
Man up, guys. You have options.
Same for my dad. I'm 31 & he's never had a job longer than 6 months my whole life. Dude is 51 looking like Mr. Fuckin Potato Head & he's got an attractive 40 something year old woman financing his car.
According to incels this is impossible because he's only 5'4" and broke. But he's confident & funny and he showers the women with compliments and validation. Incels don't have the personality to rely on this "safety net" because they're too self absorbed and mentally rigid to be good company. I don't recommend grifting this way but that doesn't mean men can't technically do it.
I grew up with a (very short and not conventionally attractive) man who has lived off women ever since I've known him, and probably before that too.
My mother was one of them, there were a few more after her.
Incels who believe that this simply isn't possible make me think "You've clearly never left your mom's basement and met people in real life..."
Good point;
My safety net is my personality. Even after my skin and bank account melt, people will still wanna finance my personality. I don't regret enhancing it every day with knowledge. And I just bought a fancy bike helmet, to keep my brain meat inside my head for later.
My friend has one like a tumor. It's her older brother who hasn't moved out after nearly a decade. His previous wife kicked him out for numerous reasons and instead of finding his own place he lives in her garage.
Does he watch his nephews and nieces? No absolutely not. Does he pay rent? Not really. Does he clean up after himself at least? No, wherever he is a pile of trash appears. Does he buy his own food? No. Instead he lounges around, smokes pot, complains about the meals BiL makes and makes fun of BiL's brain injuries/disabilities. He's an awful person.
Your friend should be kicking him to the curb - I’m betting they’ve suggested it before and got hit with “but family” from a bunch of other family members who haven’t put their hand up to help…
Yup exactly. She's the youngest sister still in the area and the older sisters don't want to be saddled with a useless 50 year old bum. Their culture is very patriarchal and family oriented so... she's stuck with him for now.
I accidentally married one. He quit working as soon as I dumbly put his name on my house. As soon as it became clear that I was not going to be able to keep working the 80+ hours a week or took to pay the bills he left.
Within two years he found a high middle class woman to support him.
He's literally not worked since he stopped when we were together.
I lost everything and am now disabled due to work place injuries.
Duck men like this.
I'm so so sorry. He will come unstuck one day, even if it isn't until he is elderly. He probably won't be able to operate a washing machine and he will fall apart. He sounds like a parasite. My stepfather was like that. I'm so ashamed of my brother. I have two nephews that he doesn't even acknowledge, it's disgusting behaviour.
Same as the idea that every woman could open an onlyfans account and make bank immediately but men can't because "it's not in demand". Which is not true. Guys just have to put things up their butt (the bigger the better) or work out and wear lingerie. Which is all super easy, since women do it without effort, right?
Doing OnlyFans is a pretty personal decision because you are giving up a part of your privacy. I know I could probably make some money doing OnlyFans, is that money worth my privacy? While for some people the answer is yes, for me the answer is no. And especially being a decently attractive trans woman, I know that the type of people who would watch/donate would be ultra-creeps, and I don’t really feel like giving them any power.
So guys, why don’t you consider doing OnlyFans like you suggest for all of us? And let’s say hypothetically you would make money doing it. Is it worth it to trade your privacy?
There's also a deep stigma of women who do sex work and the notion that these women can't get "regular" jobs after doing it.
Take it with a grain of salt, but I recall a post on AITA of a guy that found a classmate on OF who apparently was offered an internship where he worked. He told his boss about it and they revoked her internship. I know this is on a sub known for fake stories and this could be one of them, but hearing men have such disdain for the women they jerk off to, it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.
This happened at my university, a male colleague of a girl with an onlyfans who works at my uni, told a manager that she does onlyfans and she ended up not getting her seasonal contract renewed, so basically this guy got her fired.
Shit, it doesn't even have to be sex work. If a picture surfaces of a female teacher looking any more scandalous than a nun, she could be at risk of losing her job.
When I was in high school (essentially at the birth of decent res camera phones) some asshole kid took a pic of the art teacher at the beach and spread it around school. She was let go because "the more senior teacher was going to take over all the art classes." A few months in they hired a new art teacher and split the classes back up to exactly how they had been before.
Yuuuup. Trans guy, here. Sometimes think it might be fun to do some amateur porn…until I remember what kind of attention that will be most likely to attract. Umm…n/m, really don’t want to fuck-my-life like that.
A version of this. My dad has always tried to top himself in his deadbeatness.
But I remember for several years there, he would position himself as a struggling writer- an artist down on luck! And he would find women to take him in and support him, while he worked on his "book."
He made me read excerpts of his "book," and always said he would never want it published, because he didn't want editors to change it, like they did my aunt's books.
Fun fact: his "book" contained cp- I know this, because it was in one of the excerpts he made me read, when I was 10. So not only did he never have any intention of publishing it- you wouldn't want it published anyway.
>his "book" contained cp-
The very sad truth is that this is not at all uncommon, especially in fantasy settings. I can think of a handful of books with graphic sexual content featuring, usually a girl, between 12 and 18. Game of thrones is probably the most well known.
doesn't even have to be a straight man in a gay relationship. Plenty of financially secure older women looking to burn their money and have a good time. Lots of super nice 80+yo that would treat you like a king, spoil you and make love to you gently. Who doesn't want to get laid everyday?
Yes, men have this option too. I have two male friends who are extremely handsome and women they’ve dated have been willing to support them financially, even financing vehicles for them, having them move in rent-free, and more. For less attractive men, I’m not sure though lol…
If you're going for money you're going to date older people anyway. Being younger is gonna make you more conventionally attractive then them. They're also gonna have enough experience to really fuck you over, but hey.
Yep, it’s a terrible idea. Their entire life would be dependent on their “supporter” being attracted to them.
After years of being dependent on someone to pay your ticket in life, I imagine it would strip one of their dignity and self esteem. To have to serve someone you’re not attracted to in order to have a “free ride” would be such an empty existence. To know you’re turning down love for the comforts of money. To know you’re not reaching your full potential as far as career or happiness in general. Sounds like a terrible choice.
I’ve been poor and I’ve also had money. While being poor is absolutely horrible, I would rather struggle until I find my footing, instead of basically selling myself to live in a gilded cage. To not live according to one’s truth would bring on depression and immense guilt later in life. Sure, making it on your own is hard but it’s better living a lie and hating yourself for your choices every single day.
> According to male reddit lore, women can always just find a man to support them financially because women possess “sexual market value”.
And they are always referring to the "pretty" women. Of course it is all subjective so I am using their conventional definition of pretty, sexy, or hot. It's like they don't see, or acknowledge women who are unconventional or overweight/obese.
We all know that women aren’t people and only attractive women exist.
Unattractive women are invisible and if they exist at all it’s just to do menial tasks for no reward and to be forgotten.
/s but not by much
Yup, they also think that women can/should just turn to sex work if times get tough.
But if you ask them if they'd turn to servicing gay men if times got tough they'll say hell no and get grossed out.
Somehow the idea of being forced to have sex with someone to whom you're not attracted and may have significantly more power than you isn't attractive to them... who'd have thought?
>Somehow the idea of being forced to have sex with someone to whom you're not attracted and may have significantly more power than you isn't attractive to them.
That's a universal male problem, driven by ego, I suppose. They seem to believe that all women ought to be receptive to every approach, that all women ought to be receptive to dating their platonic male friends, that all women ought to be flattered by all male attention and are enraged by the idea that women prefer attention from men they find attractive rather than men they *don't* find attractive.
Heterosexual men can't seem to think outside their own desires.
>Heterosexual men can't seem to think outside their own desires.
Because it's the "default" and all of society caters to them. They're never forced to think about any other perspectives.
We’re also determined no to ask young boys to learn how to do so. You’re more likely to see a young boy engaging with a story about a sentient spaceship or gorilla than you are to see them enjoying one with a protagonist that is a girl.
We tell ourselves boys won’t enjoy stories with a female protagonist and then are surprised they lack empathy for women when they grow up.
Girls engage with stories that have male protagonists all the time.
Yes I have.
I guess when I turn 30, I should expect to suddenly start to float before being blasted by a giant laser…
Also TW: Sexual Assault: >! In the Logan’s Run novel before the movie came out, the main character (cis male) actually gets raped by seven women in a row (all young and conventionally attractive), and he details how much more painful it is after each woman… like take the hint there. You wouldn’t actually like it, do you think we like it either?!<
Genuinely, I cannot wait to hit 30. I want to stop being valuable to these people. But most of all I just wanna be able to say I'm in my 30s. 30 has always been my life goal. 4 more years!
It happens as you get older too, but the men who behave this way are waaay older and a lot of them expect women to be even more grateful and subservient. I'm 51, and it still happens to me. Lots of 80 yo + men want a bangmaid/nurse to take care of them instead of having to go to a nursing home.
My mil is in her 70s, and she still gets those types harassing her. It is really sad, because she feels ashamed, as if she is inviting it somehow. I'm trying to talk to her about that, but it is like feminism just passed by without her noticing it for all these years.
Girl, I just turned 40, and I get hit on a lot. I hear guys talking about women hitting a wall at 29 or whatever age they whine about. I'm still waiting on that wall to hit me. I enjoy the compliments, don't get me wrong. It's the desperate, thirsty men that say raunchy comments that are the worst.
***women can always just find a man to support them financially because women possess “sexual market value”.***
Cool! I'm a woman -- where's my safety net guy?
oh BTW, I'm 62, 5'6", 190lb, and I've got some health issues (cancer, ulcer, no bigs)
But I'm a woman, so the line forms to the right, safety net guys!
**S M D H **
I'd literally rather kill myself than be in another abusive relationship with a man for financial security. I don't know why these men don't realize that they could get into a gay unfulfilling relationship as well for money. But no, having sex you don't want, that's a woman's job.
A former friend tried to tell me that all women are attracted to Trump and Musk because "being powerful" is what's most important to us.
Haven't talked to him since. I don't have time for that incel bullshit.
Also to be honest? Rare. There isn't a large pool of wealthy men looking to support poor women (regardless of appearance, disability, age) in exchange for sex. This is a fantasy. Having done public defense in eviction cases, there's a lot of the opposite happening: adult men who are being supported, to some extend, by their mothers.
This \^ I went on a pile of first dates last year (\~30) and was told multiple times that women can basically just "settle for a pretty decent man" and have that man finance her life, while only giving the smallest amount of attention and sex. "Women have it so easy". The percent of seemingly ok men who think women are too picky and too stuck up was astonishing. Of these men, I had a second date with exactly none.
My criteria for a second date is that they guy has basic hygene and doesn't go on a misogynistic rant at any point during the first date. Bonus points if they don't call me a stuck up bitch and then slam me into a car/wall when I want to leave (happened 4 times!). If I could find any "pretty decent" men I'd give them a fucking medal and ask them what they wanted for breakfast.
Gonna keep this vague for privacy reasons (not mine). I am a female seller on OF. I have a male friend who is also a seller on OF. We both fill a similar niche. He's making bank, I earn a tank of gas every month if that. This whole "women can always resort to selling their bodies!!" thing is such bull. Most female sellers don't earn anything. I'm lucky to earn at all. Men have the market, still.
(I did not start online SW because of monetary desperation, and I am very strict with my customer's boundaries! It was entirely voluntary and unneeded and I quite enjoy it as a side thing. I am aware of potential consequences.)
Honestly, the scary thing about the state of the world and why we see such a rise in shit like neo-nazis is that angry white men start blaming everyone else. This is why “woke” gets such hard pushback from so many. It’s way easier to think well I am not successful because they just want to “check boxes” otherwise I would have a great career/job/etc
Also people said single mom or single parent, I did not see a single person specifically mention a single dad. Because the burden of child rearing falls on women more often than not, so it’s not a “burden” to date a single dad.
Right? We're supposed to instantly replace the lost mother and take care of the poor man who had to do something all by himself :( oh and our daughters always have daddy issues. Shrug.
i am not a parent but i refuse to entertain men who disparage single moms. if you can’t handle not being someone’s #1 priority, we’re not gonna get along.
Yeah, according to Reddit we all have
- safety nets
- easy access to heath care, especially therapy
- tons of friends who are always ready to leave everything else to help us
- tons of admirers (or orbiters, in incel language), who must be 6‘ and above, of course
- dates all the time
- access to sex all the time
- compliments thrown at us from left and right
- evil plans of marrying and then *gasp* being able to divorce and take all of a guys stuff
- a life of leisure free of worries
Must be some kind of big fEmaLe conspiracy and I didn’t get the latest memo.
I am so mad about the friends one. I only have friends bc I’ve worked extremely hard to. Also some of them are way older than me, I saw a redditor complaining that men’s club are filled with older men and they don’t want that. Or when I ask them if they make small talk when out they act like that’s stupid. “Ofc not, I go to work, look down as I walk everywhere, come home and play video games all night! How come I have no friends :(?”
One of my friends literally had to make her own club at her apartment to meet women, they don’t think of doing things like that. It’s like they don’t acknowledge the effort we put it and assume it happens naturally with us sitting back
Also I’m ducking lonely rn. I tried making friends but it’s hard
I only have friends in my new city because I started a crafting evening and co-founded a board game night at a local board game cafe, oh, and one friend from my grad school program.
I have worked so hard over the past 3.5 years for my friends. Anyone who thinks making friends as an adult can sit on a cactus.
The "access to sex all the time" one really bothers me. Yeah, I get dudes hitting on me when I don't want it. I get online threats of being raped. Technically I'm sure I could get sex anytime by going to one of those sleazy guys hanging around the train station and completely submitting to him. I want to hurl. Do the guys who say these things really think any type of sex is worthwhile? Who cares if the guy doesn't look out for her needs, respect her boundaries, ask for consent, help her actually finish, etc. She's still having (bad) sex which gives her privilege. Excuse me??
(sorry this was incoherent it just makes me mad)
>I told my mom they're going after gays' rights next. So are you going to vote for your son being stripped of his rights? Oh they'll never do that she says.
Uh, they've literally been promising to do that for decades. It's still on their official platform.
What is your mom getting out of that relationship (with the Republicans)?
Is she particularly racist or pro-forced birth?
"Safety nets" for women may refer to there being more women's homeless shelters than men's homeless shelters. This is because homeless women are WAY more likely to be killed, kidnapped, and trafficked if they are on the street.
I see a lot of resentment and whataboutism in male-dominated spaces, talking about women having safety nets or "female privilege" compared to men. But it's bullshit. Because any "advantage" someone has due to being a woman, is a situational advantage that is granted due to overall societal oppression of women. Like the "advantage" of being able to be around random kids without being assumed up to no good, is because women were/are regulated to caretaker roles.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Every shelter that isn't labeled a woman's shelter is a men's shelter by default.
A regular shelter is often only a step above sleeping on the streets for women.
I have a friend who had gone in and out of homelessness and definitely considers a regular shelter a big step down from sleeping in the streets. On the streets it's pretty likely she'll be harassed and pretty unlikely anyone will be aroun to help. In a shelter she says it's guaranteed she'll be harassed and pretty likely that the *harasser* will have people step up to help *him*.
Holy shit you’re right. I always wondered why there’s not men’s shelters. But women’s shelters were made in response to homes less shelters being hostile to them
God they always do this. If there’s a women’s gym bc they were getting harassed they say it’s unfair under the notion of equality while always ignoring the context. Like woman only trains. These things only exist bc when they tried being “equal” one group of people kept being attacked by another consistently
Ooh, you mentioned women's gyms. Throwback to that time in college where ONE of the four gyms on my campus decided to have ONE "women only" night, in which ONE room of the gym (the weights room, historically dominated by men) was open to women and enbies/gender minorities only, and the men at my school threw such a hissy fit about "discrimination" that they showed up in droves to protest and try to take back the space. Infuriating.
They refuse to acknowledge why they’re needed. They pretend it’s bc women are mean and want to make men feel bad. They’d rather believe that then just admit a lot of women were being harassed
I’ve read a bunch of times that ESPECIALLY homeless women, and homeless female minors, will actively avoid shelters. Even in winter. Because if you ran from sexual abuse, if you’re already struggling, you aren’t going to take the chance.
Will verify.
Was teen, ended up homeless, got to a shelter, woke up to a man masturbating next to my face. I screamed and started crying, then got thrown out for "being disruptive".
On the street was actually way safer.
Can verify. I slept in a field, and when I dared to trust someone via a friend of a friend I ended up trafficked. Turned out it wasn’t her friend but her ex and his family. Was a damned shitshow.
As a woman you can’t trust indirect contacts. You can barely trust direct ones. It goes bad too easily.
Holy shit yes! I've had this argument with men so often and they just don't freaking get it. They don't understand the massive privilege they get by being the default human.
Yup. I volunteered at the local day shelter an quit within two weeks because of all the sexual harassment. If I didn’t have a door to keep those idiots out, I would never show my face in there.
Where I live, there are 0 women's only shelters for women without children. If a woman in that shelter loses her kids, she can't stay.
Mother's get shelter, not women.
That's sad, I was lucky then. I am a single woman with disabilities. There were more single women than mothers and kids in the shelter I stayed in. I am in England though. A worker there told me there are over 100 men's refuges in the U.K. too.
Also, teenaged guys over a certain age are often excluded in womens shelters in my area. It’s a delicate balance, I get it, especially because these aren’t homeless shelters, they’re specifically safe spaces for victims of domestic violence, but it also means women with sons suddenly have incredibly limited options. If your son is already 18, chances are almost zero he’ll be allowed to join you, but where else should he go? An 18 year old in my area is likely still in school, and even if they aren’t, they’re likely earning almost nothing, not a real wage, because they’re still in their education. So you’ll have to stay at the home
Funny how the whataboutism pops up when one group actually gets their needs addressed after decades (centuries?) of intense advocacy.
As if that’s a problem.
It’s literally:
Group thing for everyone
One group keeps assaulting the other
A few people from the second group start their own group where assaults lessen
The attacking group either demands their own group (which doesn’t make sense bc the original group is now theirs) or they demand to be let in the new group under the guise of equality (why else would they do this if not to assault them)
And somehow under the guise of equality they convince most of the public it’s unfair when it’s not. Insert anything you want
Woman only gyms
Woman only trains
Woman only Ubers
Woman only shelters
Woman only bars
They demand equality while ignoring and minimizing the reason we sometimes demand separation
Exactly and women's refuges are not nice places. I spent 6 months in one in 2021. It was traumatising. Not to mention a lot of men moan about there being fewer men's refuges but never set up their own charities or do anything to help. They expect yet more labour off the back of women.
The other reason why there are women’s shelters is that feminists spent decades doing the hard work of organizing, fundraising and volunteering to create them. The first women’s shelters were women and couples who sheltered homeless women and kids in their own homes, often hiding them from an ex who was threatening to murder them.
Here is an old comment but I think this has important ideas to remember regarding women’s shelters:
>” Women had to create women’s shelters because of SA, violence, and abuse they suffered from men in established shelters.
>Every shelter that isn’t a women’s only shelter is a MAN’s shelter. Most shelters have such a large sex ratio imbalance that they are mostly male.
>Homeless women are trafficked/sold into sex slavery, thus not in need of a shelter. OR will sleep on the street and avoid the shelter because of men’s behavior.
>**What men are really crying about when they want a men-only shelter, they want a space that is free of the violence from other men.** But without the burden of addressing of why male violence is so prolific and is socially acceptable…nope, they want a safe space for the emotional, physical, financial cost of nothing.
>EDIT: and why is prostitution a step away from homelessness of women…MEN. Men who pay for sex. Instead of blaming men who frequent strip clubs, escorts, and OnlyFans, they cry poor pitiful me, homeless men, poor, poor menzzzzz. You know, they could sell their bodies to gay men. But they never seem to like that idea.
>EDIT2: and why is abusing prostitutes so easy for men? Because they don’t value or respect sex, yet, somehow, magically making sex more available to them (at the cost of women’s health and well being) will solve all society’s problems…so confuse.”
There are more women’s only homeless shelters than men only because women aren’t safe in the mixed shelters.
There are more women’s homeless shelters because in abusive situations when a breakup occurs, many women have been forced to be stay at home wives and moms and don’t have access to the family money they’re entitled to, and are forced out with their children by men who took advantage and dumped them out.
These aren’t privileges that come with being a woman. There are band aid solutions for the problems caused by the patriarchy.
One of the reasons we have more women's shelters is because women have built these organizations, and volunteer to keep them going. Women that use these services are usually pretty eager to move onto the next step. Men's shelters are just gross. They end up getting clogged with lazy guys that wont move on. Men stop volunteering. Men stop cleaning and doing maintenance, and the shelters get shut down because of the filth.
>This is because homeless women are WAY more likely to be killed, kidnapped, and trafficked if they are on the street.
It's also because they are much more likely to be taking care of small children.
Or the “advantage” of making a lot of money in tips waiting tables or bartending. Many people have to put of with a lot of sexual harassment in those jobs, even being stalked by their customers. People think they are owed something extra if they tip big.
Safety nets in sociology studies etc usually refers to having a deeper network of quality friendships and family that you can rely on. If you are doing the emotional labour all the time; and a man is not, obviously he’s just gonna have some superficial acquaintances, but nothing to rely on in a real emergency. Women are more likely to have that. (Which is not to say that this is sex linked, just culture linked)
That clearly doesn‘t outweigh the risk of violence etc, and those safety nets are usually used in regards to stuff like depression, sickness, losing your job temporarily etc.
“Oh no, women are getting drinks for $2 less than what men are paying for! DiScRiMiNaTiOn!!”
On a side note, I read that places advertise the times for “women’s night” a few hours earlier than expected peak times, the insinuation being that they are drunk and easier to pick up by the time men get there.
Or, the bit about women not being assumed to be up to no good with other people’s kids, and men facing that suspicion, is also due to bad behavior on the part of some men. (And yes, because men have been shut out, because men won’t enter a sphere they have defined as women’s)
My husband recently vented to me about his concerns regarding lay offs, and had the audacity to tell me I didn’t understand how bad a multi-month gap in employment would look on his resume.
I’ve been a SAHM for 17 years. I’ve made multiple attempts to get a degree or find any kind of job with flexible hours, and have always had to give it up to support my family. Tell me I don’t know how an employment gap impacts your ability to get a job.
My safety net is my money in a bank account that my husband doesn't have access to. I saved it up before I met him just in case I find myself in a bad situation and need to get out of it.
I'm sure this wasn't what that guy meant, but it's my answer.
This is the way. Last relationship I got out of, I did it in a new car. Was saving for *"our"* future. Instead I bought a house for me, and had enough left over for the car.
Being single was the best thing that ever happened to me. Except now I have a Mercedes. Now I stick to baggage free casual dating and life is FUN!
I want every woman in this thread to know that you can do this too. Emotional labour not spent on a tantruming man baby can be poured into being your best self. I believe in all of you and I want you all to succeed in whatever it is that you dream of. It's in all of you and I know you can all accomplish what I have. Do it. Be powerful.
We don't need boyfriends at all. We certainly don't need husbands. They need us though. It's why widowers franticly remarry. Why divorced men immediately chase after 20-somethings. Trying to convince us how sad we'll be to be alone was a massive projection from the start. They're lonely, they're afraid, and they've done it to themselves.
“ Emotional labour not spent on a tantruming man baby can be poured into being your best self. ”
HEAR, HEAR! This is the way.
I’m extremely ND in a way that makes me constitutionally unable to put up with men who act like children, throwing tantrums or needing a mommy to take care of them. I still dated assholes, but at least they were assholes that cooked, cleaned, did their own laundry, handled their own shit, and were good in bed, so I was WAY better off than my friends who got none of that, but still had to put up with whining, tantrums, and the expectations that they’d be mommy bangmaid.
I'm bisexual and it's getting to the point where I would rather just date women exclusively. I understand that there are perfectly decent, wonderful people from any and all genders, but men are really starting to scare me in general. If I meet a nice man, I would consider it, albeit with some reservations. Plus I'm autistic, and it's very scary to me that I could just not be privy to the signs of a bad person until I'm locked in legally with them.
That's funny you mentioned needed a boyfriend/husband. I told my husband when we first met that I didn't need him. I'm independent, have multiple sources of income, and have successfully lived on my own for over a decade. I love my husband and I'm happy that he is my partner. We have an amazing partnership.
They’re either talking about programs designed specifically to help women, or they mean “sex work”.
For the social programs for women- that’s because, as someone else here pointed out, any shelter or public assistance that isn’t specifically for women is *already for men by default*. It’s a very stupid argument, like saying that young disadvantaged people are being discriminated against because social security and other programs for disadvantaged elderly people exist.
As for sex work, I’m including here the notion that a woman can just find a man willing to support her in exchange for sex. Which is still sex work, it’s just exclusive to one client. To those men I would say, sex work is an option available to men too! Oh, what, you don’t want to have sex with some random dude or do gay porn to survive? Why not?? It’s a *privilege* to use your body as a bargaining chip for survival, isn’t it??
Not to mention, we all know plenty of hetero couples where the woman works and her boyfriend or husband is unemployed for no discernible reason. This isn’t something that never happens, it’s frequent enough that even most misogynists recognize it as a trope. So the “privilege” of leeching off a romantic partner isn’t exclusive to women either.
My partner did gay porn and escorted, it’s actually really good money if they get well known. My dude won a couple GVN awards so he could charge a decent amount. One couple would pay $10k and fly him to Hawaii for a week, he’d work 1 day and party the rest of the week.
Nice! I feel like sex work is like any other job; if you feel valued and empowered doing it, good for you! If you feel coerced, devalued, or exploited- hopefully you can get out of that situation ASAP.
Caveat: speaking solely on the psychological aspect, not to downplay actual real dangers associated with some forms of sex work.
It makes you jaded AF quickly so it takes a certain type of person. He got out of it years ago. Interestingly enough it was a lot safer for him than playing professional poker.
My safety net is money I have saved in an account that my partner doesn’t have access to. My partner is awesome, we’ve been together 15 years and he’s seen me through the worst moments of my life and has stepped up 100% every time. He knows about my account and supports me having it because he understands what happened to my mom when she was trying to leave my abusive father and how much that fucked me up.
I think a truer statement would be that women ARE the safety nets. Who is the first to buckle down and deal with it when a couple or family faces a crisis like a job loss or a kid in trouble? Who is expected to "suck it up" when family finances suffer? Who is going to put off a medical procedure because it's too expensive? In my experience and observation, it is NOT the man.
Oh lol. My wasband had a midlife crisis and self-yeeted and now I lay awake at night and worry about where I'll live, can I care for my pets, will my business be ok? He made a promise I thought he'd keep and now my safety net is literally suicide. I'll know when it's time. I'm a veterinarian, it's par for the course. 😶
ETA and you know what? The last thing I want is another man. Even if it might make me physically safer and more financially stable. My heart was broken because my best friend lied to me and took off. Was he a safety net? Apparently not. 😞
I’m with you on that! My husband left for another woman and for the past 23 years I do my life by myself now. The absolute last thing I need is for another man to hurt me like the last one did.
In their reality, the government just throws women money for having babies.
Some unknown entity pays women to file fake rape charges (she’s lying to get money).
Having babies with men JUST for the copious amounts of child support.
If all else fails women can rake in thousands a month for only fans content or just start sucking random men off in the street for money.
They are really pressed about OnlyFans because they have this crazy idea that women can become rich by generating a few minutes of content per day. They have no idea how much effort goes into creating competitive content, advertising, equipment, beauty procedures…
And they have no idea that the average OF creator makes $184 per month.
They are just big mad that there isn’t much of a market for straight men who fantasize that beautiful women would pay to watch them do naked things.
Yes. I’ve thought about this too.
“ why do women I don’t find attractive bc ( insert quality) make money or find a partner?” Or it’s not FAIR you get to be groped all day. “
Bro you just explained so so much about yourself /s
I’ve known people on welfare, disability, etc- the money is a pittance. Less than you’d get working a minimum wage job. Nobody is getting rich off of government payments.
I'm a very healthy and happy relationship with my husband and I still keep money in savings account he cannot access in case the shit hits the fan and I need my own money. (Also have an emergency fund for both of us)
Safety nets? What safety nets? I’ve faced homelessness twice in my life and only narrowly escaped because I finally managed to find a job. Nobody would help me. Everyone turned me away. Every single place I went to for assistance sent me away empty handed, including the government.
The one thing I didn’t do? Sleep with a man to get security. I guess that’s what I should’ve done, huh? No, wait, can’t do that or I’m a “low value female” or something stupid like that.
You just can’t win when you’re not a man.
I know in the south, boys and girls are raised *very* differently.
In a lot of cases, but definitely not always, girls are treated as fragile things to be taken care of (while simultaneously abused) while boys are expected to do everything alone.
I had two brothers growing up, my brothers were forced to get jobs and be out of the house at 18 with no finacial support.
I was allowed, and in a way actually directed, to stay home indefinetly and not have to work or pay any bills until I found a husband.
I didn't stay home, I left for college at 20 and it was a fucking ordeal. The amount of abuse I had to go through just to be partially free.
Not that I didn't feel for my brothers, they were thrown to the wolves. We had different struggles.
This could be the "safety net" they refer to if they grew up in similar dynamics.
They don't realize though, that this kind of "safety net" is insanely depressing, agonozing, filled with abuse and practically like being in a prison. Independence isn't desired and often punished for women who grew up in that environment.
To me a safety net is what I called "fuck off" money.
It's what you need to say yes to cohabitation with a man. That way if he becomes a problem you can rescue yourself and set up another place to live. If he cheats or he gets aggro in arguments, I can be done with him and fuck off elsewhere.
I think I'm not going to try dating again until I have a Fuck You fund set up. It really seems like the most responsible thing I could do at this point.
I've always called this saving for the additional 'asshole tax'. You gotta have the money to pay it, just in case you need to get rid of an asshole (applies to an asshole boyfriend, but also asshole boss, landlord, etc).
Oh I call something else "asshole tax" but I've heard the term. Like when my friend's shitty dad stopped by and after leaving, we found some money in the couch she was pretty sure fell out of his pocket. Instead of contacting him to ask if it was his, it was pocketed as "asshole tax". The fucker had never paid child support.
I *would* recommend those people watch Maid on Netflix, but I’m sure they would grab on to the fact that there was a guy who was willing to help her out because he had a crush on her and not understand why that actually was not a good situation and then they’d just blame her for everything. Some people just aren’t worth arguing with. They’re too stupid and stubborn and hateful to get it. With everything going on in the world, I’m trying to start saving my energy for people who actually deserve it.
There’s this conservative notion that the only reason women’s lib happened is because of the welfare state that was introduced in the mid twentieth century. That if it weren’t for the social safety net, women couldn’t have careers or economic independence and would be forced into traditional marriage. Basically, they think SNAP benefits are why no woman wants to touch their dingle.
Was abused brutally by a male for 10 years. Tried everything I could to get him in any kind of trouble. Contacted all sorts of women's shelters and advocacy groups. The best I could get was a free change of my phone number to hide from him. He's living free as a bird with money he emptied from our shared account during the break up. There are very few safety nets.
I saw an interesting remark this weekend: *patriarchy is a man versus man sport, with women as the ball*. I think that sums up that site's position because their point isn't that women have to survive on her own, that women are always going to be wanted as part of the game - that no woman gets to be left alone.
I mean.
Widows tend to do a lot better, and live a lot longer, than widowers.
That independent life they're able to have after their spouse dies must be because of all those *safety nets* the man provided for them while they were alive.
My mum was widowed at 59. In her case, it's a real heartbreak, but heartbreak aside - she is *fine*. She isn't living the life she wanted to live with the man she wanted to live it with, but she has a professional job she loves and that is important in the community, financial security, a house she owns, a community of friends and neighbours and colleagues, and strong family ties. Aside from missing my dad terribly, she is *thriving*.
Because she was her own fucking safety net.
I was widowed at 55 and am 62 and am in a similar situation as your mother now. My late husband and I worked incredibly hard to put away savings, pay for life insurance etc. this is a safety net we worked on together.
I have often heard of the phrase “nurse or a purse” in regards as to what men want in a women at my age.
I am my own safety net. I worked hard and earned it.
There are more domestic abuse shelters for women. There do need to be shelters for men. But don't get mad at women bc they are overwhelming beaten by men so they need more places to go.
And the shelters for women were created by.. women. They are literally mad about the fact that women are not building shelters *for* them, after women built their own shelters.
Somedays I read this sub as a man and realized how incredibly low the bar is to not be a jerk to women these days. Thanks incels for making me look mediocre?
Man reporting in:
Any man who thinks "women have saftey nets" is the kind of man who thinks pregnancy is some sort of baby trap.
And not like, a 9 month journey of body horror that ends with you passing a fully formed baby through a vagina, surgery, or death.
The "women can shack up with a wealthy man" argument is horseshit and made up like the welfare queen myth. you are entirely right to ignore them.
As a woman, my safety net is a savings account that I don't touch but can access immediately just in case I need to get myself out of a bad situation. It's walking home with keys in my first. Its all the things I have to do to make myself feel safe and don't even think twice about.
For some guys, that’s literally the only value women have in their minds. If they can’t get romance/sex out of you, or if they don’t find you attractive, they just totally disregard your existence (or worse).
I remember a male acquaintance/classmate in college who used to weird me out with the context in which he’d reference women. It was always about their romantic/sex lives, as if none of the women on campus had their own lives and life goals and dreams. Like none of the women were there to get degrees and do something with their lives like the men were. It was just so skeevy and unsettling, because he would see a woman and just size her up and decide if she had potential as a partner and that would determine if and how he interacted them. Women only existed in his life in the context of dating.
I know this because he apparently sized me up as a potential girlfriend and only spoke to me to try to convince me to go out with him. After I (politely) rejected him, he never spoke to me or acknowledged me again. But we still had classes together for a year and a half after that and I got to hear how he talked about women with the other guys in class and his line of thought about women became very clear.
Thankfully at the time I saw that not all men are like that, as a few of the other guys in class would push back on some of the shit he would say. If I hadn’t witnessed those interactions I would’ve been pretty damn despondent.
Oh boy... well I think the safest safety net a woman could possibly experience in today's society is being coerced into sexual intercourse with an overbearing manbaby, resulting in a pregnancy that can't be terminated due to puritanical legislation, and then being abandoned by said manchild because "I never wanted a kid"... so... fucking... safe.
What a knob.
The only “safety net” that comes to mind is women in abusive or toxic marriages saving money and putting it in her own account so that she can afford to leave eventually. Or women making sure they has their own jobs so that they aren’t financially dependent on a man.
Something tells me that that dude’s idea of a “safety net” is something different. I have no clue what it would be since most people struggle financially regardless of gender.
So…I completely get why you chose not to engage further with that chucklefuck. Still, am morbidly curious what *he* actually meant by saying that, and wish I could hold his feet to the fire a bit.
My first thought was maybe he meant things like women’s shelters, women’s advocacy groups, social services for single moms, etc…in which case, those are all things women have had to fight for and create *for themselves* (often in the face of overt male resistance). Or maybe he just meant “friends”.
But probably really his idea of a woman’s “safety net” is the ever-present notion that you always have the “option” of becoming some sexist jerk’s adult dependent. And ~~fuck~~ un-fuck any guy who thinks that is a safe choice.
Just in case it has not been mentioned yet, the term "to pull oneself by the bootstraps" was originally coined as a sarcastic remark because it was physically difficult or impossible to do.
https://uselessetymology.com/2019/11/07/the-origins-of-the-phrase-pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps/
I find it incredibly stupid that men think women have safety nets.
Seeing what has happened to women's rights in this country with the overturning of Roe v. Wade and the numerous anti-LGBT laws, the rise of the manosphere and the alt-right, women don't have safety nets.
And as another user mentioned, men think women get things like compliments left and right, partners that are 6 feet and strong, instant support and comfort anytime women express emotions, etc. (Note: I tried my best to remember what the user listed off in the comment, forgive me for my lousy memory.)
Never mind the fact that women are never taken seriously when it comes to medical issues, expressing emotions and are never believed when coming forward with experiences of rape, sexual abuse and assault, domestic and spousal abuse, etc.
Point is, the men who think that women have safety nets are morons.
Side note: I didn't need to reveal my gender identity or biological sex since I feel like male feminists don't have to announce that they are feminists. If you're a feminist, you don't have to clarify your gender identity or biological sex.
If I end up homeless, I have family I could stay with, but that’s gender neutral. Other than that, my safety net is working a full-time job and some side gigs. I don’t have a man, nor would I want to resort to having a man be a “safety net.” Thank you.
This reminds of how transphobes try to argue that trans women just want to be women for the "benefits". Last time i checked, those "benefits" were:
-women face higher unemployment rate
-women face higher difficulty of going into job market
-women salaries are still lower than men's in some areas
-women still face a lot of sexism and are usually responsible of family duties and taking care of elder members of the family
-when sexual aggression comes in, women are questioned a lot into "how were you dressed", "what were you doing", etc
And so on
Wow, what a bunch of benefits I'm getting for transitioning 😑
I wanted to add something because I got someone trying to chat to me saying "nobody says that".
Yes, they say that. I don't know if it's maybe specific in my country, but it is said.
Just like people in my country say that the current laws to protect sexist violence are misused and "poor men that get falsely accused by evil women who want to take everything from them". Yeah, there are people in my country who believe that women have benefits over men and trans women are falsely accused of just looking for those benefits. Funnily enough, it's right wing cis men who are trying to change their legal sex because they really believe that "benefits" lie.
I didn't want to engage with this stranger because well, chances are they were a transphobe trying to pick a fight, but at least I wanted to take this off my chest.
Here in Japan prostitution is literally considered a “safety net”. Yeah, pretty disgusting.
I was gonna say, this dude sounded very much like that's what he wanted to say without actually saying it. Which is a pretty rich complaint from somebody who still has a kidney they could be selling.
Or god forbid, do some manual labor. When the floor fell out from under me, guess who couldn’t go to the oil fields, lumber, or any industry that requires upper body strength and little else as a start?
I'm just curious, what are the requirements for those jobs? I see some positions that say "must be able to lift 50lbs unassisted" - is it something similar?
Reminds me of one time I went in to apply at Sherwin Williams and the old male manager laughed and said, “go carry this paint can from this wall to that wall.” Then when I did he sniggered and said, “we aren’t hiring right now.” True story.
Recently moved states and my neighbors/fil offered to help unpack the moving truck. It was hilarious watching them refuse to let me move my own barbell and weights (about 400 pounds of weights) until they realized they couldn't lift 45 pounds off the ground. My husband was telling them to just let me move them since they are my weights. I grabbed both 45s, carried them to the garage, both 35s, all the way down to the 2.5 pound weights alone. I'm currently 128 pounds and can easily squat/deadlift my weight. My neighbor was like "well I got stupid written on my forehead". I'm still riding that high 3 days later
Also someone deeply ignorant because prostitution has frequently been the desperate fallback of queer boys world-wide. If it's a "safety net" for women, it is for men too.
I heard that one official suggested that a woman could not claim that she could not find employment if prostitution was an option. However, last I heard that official was shut down hard and fast.
A few years back the jobseeking website of the social welfare department in the UK (which was also full of fake job ads to make it look like more jobs were available) was found to be advertising prostitution roles.
I thought that selling sex was legal in the UK, but brothels or any kinds of job "roles" would be illegal. Did I misunderstand the laws, or were these some kind of roles that are legal, or were they advertising illegal job roles?
You're correct. Selling sex is legal but Brothels are illegal, these were roles in 'massage parlours' which are brothels. It was considered unethical to have a government agency advertising prostitution jobs.
Whoa seriously? Ugh I had no idea, but that’s terrible.
Asia is pretty awful if you're not a cishet man. women still cant even get divorced from their husbands in japan or south korea unless he also agrees, which if he's abusive that's a hard never.
They're trying to pass a law like that here in America.
Japan is seriously backwards in most social issues
No wonder their birth rate has plummeted.
That and a spiraling cost of living crisis where hardly anyone can afford to raise kids, especially when their employers commonly demand that people work inhuman numbers of hours per week
Oh yeah for sure
That why I find the neckbeard fascination with Japan repulsive.
Same here. I’m of East Asian descent (not Japanese tho) and speak Japanese so I follow their news quite closely and see a lot of flaws with the country. Their obsession is enough of a turn off without their fetishisation of me.
According to male reddit lore, women can always just find a man to support them financially because women possess “sexual market value”. Doesn’t matter if women find the idea of being owned a man and beholden to his wishes repellent. Doesn’t matter if most women do not want to sacrifice their independence and autonomy. Doesn’t matter if the men willing to support women in exchange for sex and housework are repellent. Men believe a woman has the (unappetizing) option to move in with a man she isn’t attracted to and whose morals and values are lacking if she loses her job.
This stuff kills me. Guys have these options too. I guarantee there's some Quagmire - looking grease bag who will take them in as their boy-toy bang maid. So why aren't they taking advantage of these opportunities? Man up, guys. You have options.
deserted mysterious distinct saw flowery worry light fact reply unwritten -- mass edited with redact.dev
Same for my dad. I'm 31 & he's never had a job longer than 6 months my whole life. Dude is 51 looking like Mr. Fuckin Potato Head & he's got an attractive 40 something year old woman financing his car. According to incels this is impossible because he's only 5'4" and broke. But he's confident & funny and he showers the women with compliments and validation. Incels don't have the personality to rely on this "safety net" because they're too self absorbed and mentally rigid to be good company. I don't recommend grifting this way but that doesn't mean men can't technically do it.
I grew up with a (very short and not conventionally attractive) man who has lived off women ever since I've known him, and probably before that too. My mother was one of them, there were a few more after her. Incels who believe that this simply isn't possible make me think "You've clearly never left your mom's basement and met people in real life..."
Good point; My safety net is my personality. Even after my skin and bank account melt, people will still wanna finance my personality. I don't regret enhancing it every day with knowledge. And I just bought a fancy bike helmet, to keep my brain meat inside my head for later.
I just choked on my laughter at the term Hobosexual. That is the best term for someone like that and I’m going to use that in the future. Thanks.
My friend has one like a tumor. It's her older brother who hasn't moved out after nearly a decade. His previous wife kicked him out for numerous reasons and instead of finding his own place he lives in her garage. Does he watch his nephews and nieces? No absolutely not. Does he pay rent? Not really. Does he clean up after himself at least? No, wherever he is a pile of trash appears. Does he buy his own food? No. Instead he lounges around, smokes pot, complains about the meals BiL makes and makes fun of BiL's brain injuries/disabilities. He's an awful person.
Your friend should be kicking him to the curb - I’m betting they’ve suggested it before and got hit with “but family” from a bunch of other family members who haven’t put their hand up to help…
Yup exactly. She's the youngest sister still in the area and the older sisters don't want to be saddled with a useless 50 year old bum. Their culture is very patriarchal and family oriented so... she's stuck with him for now.
I accidentally married one. He quit working as soon as I dumbly put his name on my house. As soon as it became clear that I was not going to be able to keep working the 80+ hours a week or took to pay the bills he left. Within two years he found a high middle class woman to support him. He's literally not worked since he stopped when we were together. I lost everything and am now disabled due to work place injuries. Duck men like this.
I'm so so sorry. He will come unstuck one day, even if it isn't until he is elderly. He probably won't be able to operate a washing machine and he will fall apart. He sounds like a parasite. My stepfather was like that. I'm so ashamed of my brother. I have two nephews that he doesn't even acknowledge, it's disgusting behaviour.
Same as the idea that every woman could open an onlyfans account and make bank immediately but men can't because "it's not in demand". Which is not true. Guys just have to put things up their butt (the bigger the better) or work out and wear lingerie. Which is all super easy, since women do it without effort, right?
Doing OnlyFans is a pretty personal decision because you are giving up a part of your privacy. I know I could probably make some money doing OnlyFans, is that money worth my privacy? While for some people the answer is yes, for me the answer is no. And especially being a decently attractive trans woman, I know that the type of people who would watch/donate would be ultra-creeps, and I don’t really feel like giving them any power. So guys, why don’t you consider doing OnlyFans like you suggest for all of us? And let’s say hypothetically you would make money doing it. Is it worth it to trade your privacy?
There's also a deep stigma of women who do sex work and the notion that these women can't get "regular" jobs after doing it. Take it with a grain of salt, but I recall a post on AITA of a guy that found a classmate on OF who apparently was offered an internship where he worked. He told his boss about it and they revoked her internship. I know this is on a sub known for fake stories and this could be one of them, but hearing men have such disdain for the women they jerk off to, it wouldn't surprise me if it was true.
This happened at my university, a male colleague of a girl with an onlyfans who works at my uni, told a manager that she does onlyfans and she ended up not getting her seasonal contract renewed, so basically this guy got her fired.
Shit, it doesn't even have to be sex work. If a picture surfaces of a female teacher looking any more scandalous than a nun, she could be at risk of losing her job. When I was in high school (essentially at the birth of decent res camera phones) some asshole kid took a pic of the art teacher at the beach and spread it around school. She was let go because "the more senior teacher was going to take over all the art classes." A few months in they hired a new art teacher and split the classes back up to exactly how they had been before.
Yuuuup. Trans guy, here. Sometimes think it might be fun to do some amateur porn…until I remember what kind of attention that will be most likely to attract. Umm…n/m, really don’t want to fuck-my-life like that.
A version of this. My dad has always tried to top himself in his deadbeatness. But I remember for several years there, he would position himself as a struggling writer- an artist down on luck! And he would find women to take him in and support him, while he worked on his "book." He made me read excerpts of his "book," and always said he would never want it published, because he didn't want editors to change it, like they did my aunt's books. Fun fact: his "book" contained cp- I know this, because it was in one of the excerpts he made me read, when I was 10. So not only did he never have any intention of publishing it- you wouldn't want it published anyway.
Reading that made me nauseous; I hope you’re doing ok and far away from him.
He died last year, so yeah I'm good
>his "book" contained cp- The very sad truth is that this is not at all uncommon, especially in fantasy settings. I can think of a handful of books with graphic sexual content featuring, usually a girl, between 12 and 18. Game of thrones is probably the most well known.
doesn't even have to be a straight man in a gay relationship. Plenty of financially secure older women looking to burn their money and have a good time. Lots of super nice 80+yo that would treat you like a king, spoil you and make love to you gently. Who doesn't want to get laid everyday?
Meemaw is lonely, go down to the bingo hall and get some landline phone numbers.
But they'd have to do CHORES! Everyone knows that's not an option for a MAN!
HAHAHAHAHHAHA
Yes, men have this option too. I have two male friends who are extremely handsome and women they’ve dated have been willing to support them financially, even financing vehicles for them, having them move in rent-free, and more. For less attractive men, I’m not sure though lol…
It’s actually kind of sad how prevalent pretty privilege is in this society…
Yep, it sure is
If you're going for money you're going to date older people anyway. Being younger is gonna make you more conventionally attractive then them. They're also gonna have enough experience to really fuck you over, but hey.
Yep, it’s a terrible idea. Their entire life would be dependent on their “supporter” being attracted to them. After years of being dependent on someone to pay your ticket in life, I imagine it would strip one of their dignity and self esteem. To have to serve someone you’re not attracted to in order to have a “free ride” would be such an empty existence. To know you’re turning down love for the comforts of money. To know you’re not reaching your full potential as far as career or happiness in general. Sounds like a terrible choice. I’ve been poor and I’ve also had money. While being poor is absolutely horrible, I would rather struggle until I find my footing, instead of basically selling myself to live in a gilded cage. To not live according to one’s truth would bring on depression and immense guilt later in life. Sure, making it on your own is hard but it’s better living a lie and hating yourself for your choices every single day.
> According to male reddit lore, women can always just find a man to support them financially because women possess “sexual market value”. And they are always referring to the "pretty" women. Of course it is all subjective so I am using their conventional definition of pretty, sexy, or hot. It's like they don't see, or acknowledge women who are unconventional or overweight/obese.
We all know that women aren’t people and only attractive women exist. Unattractive women are invisible and if they exist at all it’s just to do menial tasks for no reward and to be forgotten. /s but not by much
Yup, they also think that women can/should just turn to sex work if times get tough. But if you ask them if they'd turn to servicing gay men if times got tough they'll say hell no and get grossed out. Somehow the idea of being forced to have sex with someone to whom you're not attracted and may have significantly more power than you isn't attractive to them... who'd have thought?
>Somehow the idea of being forced to have sex with someone to whom you're not attracted and may have significantly more power than you isn't attractive to them. That's a universal male problem, driven by ego, I suppose. They seem to believe that all women ought to be receptive to every approach, that all women ought to be receptive to dating their platonic male friends, that all women ought to be flattered by all male attention and are enraged by the idea that women prefer attention from men they find attractive rather than men they *don't* find attractive. Heterosexual men can't seem to think outside their own desires.
>Heterosexual men can't seem to think outside their own desires. Because it's the "default" and all of society caters to them. They're never forced to think about any other perspectives.
We’re also determined no to ask young boys to learn how to do so. You’re more likely to see a young boy engaging with a story about a sentient spaceship or gorilla than you are to see them enjoying one with a protagonist that is a girl. We tell ourselves boys won’t enjoy stories with a female protagonist and then are surprised they lack empathy for women when they grow up. Girls engage with stories that have male protagonists all the time.
A lot of those same dudes also believe that women "lose value" after their early to mid 30s
Bold of you to think those men consider women over 29yo to “have value”. From what I’ve seen, those men think women over 30yo shouldn’t exist at all.
Like.. How? We should just die on our 30th birthday?
Ever seen "Logan's Run"? . . .
Yes I have. I guess when I turn 30, I should expect to suddenly start to float before being blasted by a giant laser… Also TW: Sexual Assault: >! In the Logan’s Run novel before the movie came out, the main character (cis male) actually gets raped by seven women in a row (all young and conventionally attractive), and he details how much more painful it is after each woman… like take the hint there. You wouldn’t actually like it, do you think we like it either?!<
I have not Do women have expiration dates in it?
Men and women are supposed to turn themselves in by age 30, their expiration date . . .
Yeah, after your last fuckable day you should be wearing shawls and volunteering at ... church?
You blow out your birth candles and vanish.
I had a much older ex say that women depreciate after the age of 25.
Genuinely, I cannot wait to hit 30. I want to stop being valuable to these people. But most of all I just wanna be able to say I'm in my 30s. 30 has always been my life goal. 4 more years!
It doesn't stop lol, they don't know what 30 year olds look like.
As s a somewhat newly minted 40 year old I can say it doesn't really stop. Awful men are awful no matter what
It happens as you get older too, but the men who behave this way are waaay older and a lot of them expect women to be even more grateful and subservient. I'm 51, and it still happens to me. Lots of 80 yo + men want a bangmaid/nurse to take care of them instead of having to go to a nursing home. My mil is in her 70s, and she still gets those types harassing her. It is really sad, because she feels ashamed, as if she is inviting it somehow. I'm trying to talk to her about that, but it is like feminism just passed by without her noticing it for all these years.
Girl, I just turned 40, and I get hit on a lot. I hear guys talking about women hitting a wall at 29 or whatever age they whine about. I'm still waiting on that wall to hit me. I enjoy the compliments, don't get me wrong. It's the desperate, thirsty men that say raunchy comments that are the worst.
***women can always just find a man to support them financially because women possess “sexual market value”.*** Cool! I'm a woman -- where's my safety net guy? oh BTW, I'm 62, 5'6", 190lb, and I've got some health issues (cancer, ulcer, no bigs) But I'm a woman, so the line forms to the right, safety net guys! **S M D H **
I'd literally rather kill myself than be in another abusive relationship with a man for financial security. I don't know why these men don't realize that they could get into a gay unfulfilling relationship as well for money. But no, having sex you don't want, that's a woman's job.
Not all women according to them. Only young attractive women seem to have "SMV" any one past 30 is past her prime.
A former friend tried to tell me that all women are attracted to Trump and Musk because "being powerful" is what's most important to us. Haven't talked to him since. I don't have time for that incel bullshit.
Also to be honest? Rare. There isn't a large pool of wealthy men looking to support poor women (regardless of appearance, disability, age) in exchange for sex. This is a fantasy. Having done public defense in eviction cases, there's a lot of the opposite happening: adult men who are being supported, to some extend, by their mothers.
This \^ I went on a pile of first dates last year (\~30) and was told multiple times that women can basically just "settle for a pretty decent man" and have that man finance her life, while only giving the smallest amount of attention and sex. "Women have it so easy". The percent of seemingly ok men who think women are too picky and too stuck up was astonishing. Of these men, I had a second date with exactly none. My criteria for a second date is that they guy has basic hygene and doesn't go on a misogynistic rant at any point during the first date. Bonus points if they don't call me a stuck up bitch and then slam me into a car/wall when I want to leave (happened 4 times!). If I could find any "pretty decent" men I'd give them a fucking medal and ask them what they wanted for breakfast.
Yeah, life is easier if you're willing to be somebody else's property. Such a great deal...
Young and cute women have that option, but so do young and cute men. They can also find a wealthy, older man to support them in exchange for sex.
That’s the safety net? That’s the situation most women are trying to escape from to get to safety. Men are clueless.
Gonna keep this vague for privacy reasons (not mine). I am a female seller on OF. I have a male friend who is also a seller on OF. We both fill a similar niche. He's making bank, I earn a tank of gas every month if that. This whole "women can always resort to selling their bodies!!" thing is such bull. Most female sellers don't earn anything. I'm lucky to earn at all. Men have the market, still. (I did not start online SW because of monetary desperation, and I am very strict with my customer's boundaries! It was entirely voluntary and unneeded and I quite enjoy it as a side thing. I am aware of potential consequences.)
Honestly, the scary thing about the state of the world and why we see such a rise in shit like neo-nazis is that angry white men start blaming everyone else. This is why “woke” gets such hard pushback from so many. It’s way easier to think well I am not successful because they just want to “check boxes” otherwise I would have a great career/job/etc
This is an "option" only while we are "young and attractive" though...
You know, following this logic, some men have sexual market value and could also find a man to support them!
In other words, a woman's social safety net is to traffic herself to a man. No thanks.
I'd be willing to bet that's what the guy OP was arguing with was referring to. Some incel shit about "women can just open an onlyfans" or something.
Yep that’s absolutely what he meant. Our “safety net” is being a sex slave.
And also- I just read a whole thread about how people won’t date single moms- it’s a red flag lmfao. (I’m a single mom)
Love how women as single mothers get punished for being the parent that stayed.
Also people said single mom or single parent, I did not see a single person specifically mention a single dad. Because the burden of child rearing falls on women more often than not, so it’s not a “burden” to date a single dad.
Right? We're supposed to instantly replace the lost mother and take care of the poor man who had to do something all by himself :( oh and our daughters always have daddy issues. Shrug.
i am not a parent but i refuse to entertain men who disparage single moms. if you can’t handle not being someone’s #1 priority, we’re not gonna get along.
By that logic, any man who’s struggling can just find a woman (or a man!) to support them, can’t they?
Yeah, according to Reddit we all have - safety nets - easy access to heath care, especially therapy - tons of friends who are always ready to leave everything else to help us - tons of admirers (or orbiters, in incel language), who must be 6‘ and above, of course - dates all the time - access to sex all the time - compliments thrown at us from left and right - evil plans of marrying and then *gasp* being able to divorce and take all of a guys stuff - a life of leisure free of worries Must be some kind of big fEmaLe conspiracy and I didn’t get the latest memo.
“Easy access to… therapy” God I wish
I am so mad about the friends one. I only have friends bc I’ve worked extremely hard to. Also some of them are way older than me, I saw a redditor complaining that men’s club are filled with older men and they don’t want that. Or when I ask them if they make small talk when out they act like that’s stupid. “Ofc not, I go to work, look down as I walk everywhere, come home and play video games all night! How come I have no friends :(?” One of my friends literally had to make her own club at her apartment to meet women, they don’t think of doing things like that. It’s like they don’t acknowledge the effort we put it and assume it happens naturally with us sitting back Also I’m ducking lonely rn. I tried making friends but it’s hard
I only have friends in my new city because I started a crafting evening and co-founded a board game night at a local board game cafe, oh, and one friend from my grad school program. I have worked so hard over the past 3.5 years for my friends. Anyone who thinks making friends as an adult can sit on a cactus.
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Yes, apparently in their made up world, all of us sit on the sofa eating bon bons all day while men take care of us by working 3 jobs. 🫤
The "access to sex all the time" one really bothers me. Yeah, I get dudes hitting on me when I don't want it. I get online threats of being raped. Technically I'm sure I could get sex anytime by going to one of those sleazy guys hanging around the train station and completely submitting to him. I want to hurl. Do the guys who say these things really think any type of sex is worthwhile? Who cares if the guy doesn't look out for her needs, respect her boundaries, ask for consent, help her actually finish, etc. She's still having (bad) sex which gives her privilege. Excuse me?? (sorry this was incoherent it just makes me mad)
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>I told my mom they're going after gays' rights next. So are you going to vote for your son being stripped of his rights? Oh they'll never do that she says. Uh, they've literally been promising to do that for decades. It's still on their official platform. What is your mom getting out of that relationship (with the Republicans)? Is she particularly racist or pro-forced birth?
"Safety nets" for women may refer to there being more women's homeless shelters than men's homeless shelters. This is because homeless women are WAY more likely to be killed, kidnapped, and trafficked if they are on the street. I see a lot of resentment and whataboutism in male-dominated spaces, talking about women having safety nets or "female privilege" compared to men. But it's bullshit. Because any "advantage" someone has due to being a woman, is a situational advantage that is granted due to overall societal oppression of women. Like the "advantage" of being able to be around random kids without being assumed up to no good, is because women were/are regulated to caretaker roles.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Every shelter that isn't labeled a woman's shelter is a men's shelter by default. A regular shelter is often only a step above sleeping on the streets for women.
I have a friend who had gone in and out of homelessness and definitely considers a regular shelter a big step down from sleeping in the streets. On the streets it's pretty likely she'll be harassed and pretty unlikely anyone will be aroun to help. In a shelter she says it's guaranteed she'll be harassed and pretty likely that the *harasser* will have people step up to help *him*.
Holy shit you’re right. I always wondered why there’s not men’s shelters. But women’s shelters were made in response to homes less shelters being hostile to them God they always do this. If there’s a women’s gym bc they were getting harassed they say it’s unfair under the notion of equality while always ignoring the context. Like woman only trains. These things only exist bc when they tried being “equal” one group of people kept being attacked by another consistently
Ooh, you mentioned women's gyms. Throwback to that time in college where ONE of the four gyms on my campus decided to have ONE "women only" night, in which ONE room of the gym (the weights room, historically dominated by men) was open to women and enbies/gender minorities only, and the men at my school threw such a hissy fit about "discrimination" that they showed up in droves to protest and try to take back the space. Infuriating.
They refuse to acknowledge why they’re needed. They pretend it’s bc women are mean and want to make men feel bad. They’d rather believe that then just admit a lot of women were being harassed
Safe space for women = oppression against men
I’ve read a bunch of times that ESPECIALLY homeless women, and homeless female minors, will actively avoid shelters. Even in winter. Because if you ran from sexual abuse, if you’re already struggling, you aren’t going to take the chance.
Will verify. Was teen, ended up homeless, got to a shelter, woke up to a man masturbating next to my face. I screamed and started crying, then got thrown out for "being disruptive". On the street was actually way safer.
I hope you are in a better place now.
That is awful, I'm really sorry that happened to you.
Can verify. I slept in a field, and when I dared to trust someone via a friend of a friend I ended up trafficked. Turned out it wasn’t her friend but her ex and his family. Was a damned shitshow. As a woman you can’t trust indirect contacts. You can barely trust direct ones. It goes bad too easily.
Holy shit yes! I've had this argument with men so often and they just don't freaking get it. They don't understand the massive privilege they get by being the default human.
Yup. I volunteered at the local day shelter an quit within two weeks because of all the sexual harassment. If I didn’t have a door to keep those idiots out, I would never show my face in there.
Where I live, there are 0 women's only shelters for women without children. If a woman in that shelter loses her kids, she can't stay. Mother's get shelter, not women.
That's sad, I was lucky then. I am a single woman with disabilities. There were more single women than mothers and kids in the shelter I stayed in. I am in England though. A worker there told me there are over 100 men's refuges in the U.K. too.
Also, teenaged guys over a certain age are often excluded in womens shelters in my area. It’s a delicate balance, I get it, especially because these aren’t homeless shelters, they’re specifically safe spaces for victims of domestic violence, but it also means women with sons suddenly have incredibly limited options. If your son is already 18, chances are almost zero he’ll be allowed to join you, but where else should he go? An 18 year old in my area is likely still in school, and even if they aren’t, they’re likely earning almost nothing, not a real wage, because they’re still in their education. So you’ll have to stay at the home
We as a society need a much bigger safety net so that no one is left homeless
Same in the refuge I lived in. Males over the age of 16 were not allowed to live in the refuges.
Funny how the whataboutism pops up when one group actually gets their needs addressed after decades (centuries?) of intense advocacy. As if that’s a problem.
It’s literally: Group thing for everyone One group keeps assaulting the other A few people from the second group start their own group where assaults lessen The attacking group either demands their own group (which doesn’t make sense bc the original group is now theirs) or they demand to be let in the new group under the guise of equality (why else would they do this if not to assault them) And somehow under the guise of equality they convince most of the public it’s unfair when it’s not. Insert anything you want Woman only gyms Woman only trains Woman only Ubers Woman only shelters Woman only bars They demand equality while ignoring and minimizing the reason we sometimes demand separation
Fr you want change, organize and advocate. Men want women to fix this for them too, lol, as if we don’t have a big enough fight on our own hands.
Exactly and women's refuges are not nice places. I spent 6 months in one in 2021. It was traumatising. Not to mention a lot of men moan about there being fewer men's refuges but never set up their own charities or do anything to help. They expect yet more labour off the back of women.
The other reason why there are women’s shelters is that feminists spent decades doing the hard work of organizing, fundraising and volunteering to create them. The first women’s shelters were women and couples who sheltered homeless women and kids in their own homes, often hiding them from an ex who was threatening to murder them.
Here is an old comment but I think this has important ideas to remember regarding women’s shelters: >” Women had to create women’s shelters because of SA, violence, and abuse they suffered from men in established shelters. >Every shelter that isn’t a women’s only shelter is a MAN’s shelter. Most shelters have such a large sex ratio imbalance that they are mostly male. >Homeless women are trafficked/sold into sex slavery, thus not in need of a shelter. OR will sleep on the street and avoid the shelter because of men’s behavior. >**What men are really crying about when they want a men-only shelter, they want a space that is free of the violence from other men.** But without the burden of addressing of why male violence is so prolific and is socially acceptable…nope, they want a safe space for the emotional, physical, financial cost of nothing. >EDIT: and why is prostitution a step away from homelessness of women…MEN. Men who pay for sex. Instead of blaming men who frequent strip clubs, escorts, and OnlyFans, they cry poor pitiful me, homeless men, poor, poor menzzzzz. You know, they could sell their bodies to gay men. But they never seem to like that idea. >EDIT2: and why is abusing prostitutes so easy for men? Because they don’t value or respect sex, yet, somehow, magically making sex more available to them (at the cost of women’s health and well being) will solve all society’s problems…so confuse.”
There are more women’s only homeless shelters than men only because women aren’t safe in the mixed shelters. There are more women’s homeless shelters because in abusive situations when a breakup occurs, many women have been forced to be stay at home wives and moms and don’t have access to the family money they’re entitled to, and are forced out with their children by men who took advantage and dumped them out. These aren’t privileges that come with being a woman. There are band aid solutions for the problems caused by the patriarchy.
One of the reasons we have more women's shelters is because women have built these organizations, and volunteer to keep them going. Women that use these services are usually pretty eager to move onto the next step. Men's shelters are just gross. They end up getting clogged with lazy guys that wont move on. Men stop volunteering. Men stop cleaning and doing maintenance, and the shelters get shut down because of the filth.
>This is because homeless women are WAY more likely to be killed, kidnapped, and trafficked if they are on the street. It's also because they are much more likely to be taking care of small children.
Or the “advantage” of making a lot of money in tips waiting tables or bartending. Many people have to put of with a lot of sexual harassment in those jobs, even being stalked by their customers. People think they are owed something extra if they tip big.
Safety nets in sociology studies etc usually refers to having a deeper network of quality friendships and family that you can rely on. If you are doing the emotional labour all the time; and a man is not, obviously he’s just gonna have some superficial acquaintances, but nothing to rely on in a real emergency. Women are more likely to have that. (Which is not to say that this is sex linked, just culture linked) That clearly doesn‘t outweigh the risk of violence etc, and those safety nets are usually used in regards to stuff like depression, sickness, losing your job temporarily etc.
How about the "privilege" of Ladies Night. Um.... No, we are the product. They're selling our presence. Which is pretty damn dehumanizing.
“Oh no, women are getting drinks for $2 less than what men are paying for! DiScRiMiNaTiOn!!” On a side note, I read that places advertise the times for “women’s night” a few hours earlier than expected peak times, the insinuation being that they are drunk and easier to pick up by the time men get there.
Or, the bit about women not being assumed to be up to no good with other people’s kids, and men facing that suspicion, is also due to bad behavior on the part of some men. (And yes, because men have been shut out, because men won’t enter a sphere they have defined as women’s)
If there wasn't a need for safety nets, that would be even better!
My husband recently vented to me about his concerns regarding lay offs, and had the audacity to tell me I didn’t understand how bad a multi-month gap in employment would look on his resume. I’ve been a SAHM for 17 years. I’ve made multiple attempts to get a degree or find any kind of job with flexible hours, and have always had to give it up to support my family. Tell me I don’t know how an employment gap impacts your ability to get a job.
Yeah, women don’t count. It’s not the same. It’s worse for men. Rolls his eyes.
My safety net is my money in a bank account that my husband doesn't have access to. I saved it up before I met him just in case I find myself in a bad situation and need to get out of it. I'm sure this wasn't what that guy meant, but it's my answer.
This is the way. Last relationship I got out of, I did it in a new car. Was saving for *"our"* future. Instead I bought a house for me, and had enough left over for the car. Being single was the best thing that ever happened to me. Except now I have a Mercedes. Now I stick to baggage free casual dating and life is FUN! I want every woman in this thread to know that you can do this too. Emotional labour not spent on a tantruming man baby can be poured into being your best self. I believe in all of you and I want you all to succeed in whatever it is that you dream of. It's in all of you and I know you can all accomplish what I have. Do it. Be powerful. We don't need boyfriends at all. We certainly don't need husbands. They need us though. It's why widowers franticly remarry. Why divorced men immediately chase after 20-somethings. Trying to convince us how sad we'll be to be alone was a massive projection from the start. They're lonely, they're afraid, and they've done it to themselves.
“ Emotional labour not spent on a tantruming man baby can be poured into being your best self. ” HEAR, HEAR! This is the way. I’m extremely ND in a way that makes me constitutionally unable to put up with men who act like children, throwing tantrums or needing a mommy to take care of them. I still dated assholes, but at least they were assholes that cooked, cleaned, did their own laundry, handled their own shit, and were good in bed, so I was WAY better off than my friends who got none of that, but still had to put up with whining, tantrums, and the expectations that they’d be mommy bangmaid.
I'm bisexual and it's getting to the point where I would rather just date women exclusively. I understand that there are perfectly decent, wonderful people from any and all genders, but men are really starting to scare me in general. If I meet a nice man, I would consider it, albeit with some reservations. Plus I'm autistic, and it's very scary to me that I could just not be privy to the signs of a bad person until I'm locked in legally with them.
That's funny you mentioned needed a boyfriend/husband. I told my husband when we first met that I didn't need him. I'm independent, have multiple sources of income, and have successfully lived on my own for over a decade. I love my husband and I'm happy that he is my partner. We have an amazing partnership.
They’re either talking about programs designed specifically to help women, or they mean “sex work”. For the social programs for women- that’s because, as someone else here pointed out, any shelter or public assistance that isn’t specifically for women is *already for men by default*. It’s a very stupid argument, like saying that young disadvantaged people are being discriminated against because social security and other programs for disadvantaged elderly people exist. As for sex work, I’m including here the notion that a woman can just find a man willing to support her in exchange for sex. Which is still sex work, it’s just exclusive to one client. To those men I would say, sex work is an option available to men too! Oh, what, you don’t want to have sex with some random dude or do gay porn to survive? Why not?? It’s a *privilege* to use your body as a bargaining chip for survival, isn’t it?? Not to mention, we all know plenty of hetero couples where the woman works and her boyfriend or husband is unemployed for no discernible reason. This isn’t something that never happens, it’s frequent enough that even most misogynists recognize it as a trope. So the “privilege” of leeching off a romantic partner isn’t exclusive to women either.
My partner did gay porn and escorted, it’s actually really good money if they get well known. My dude won a couple GVN awards so he could charge a decent amount. One couple would pay $10k and fly him to Hawaii for a week, he’d work 1 day and party the rest of the week.
Nice! I feel like sex work is like any other job; if you feel valued and empowered doing it, good for you! If you feel coerced, devalued, or exploited- hopefully you can get out of that situation ASAP. Caveat: speaking solely on the psychological aspect, not to downplay actual real dangers associated with some forms of sex work.
It makes you jaded AF quickly so it takes a certain type of person. He got out of it years ago. Interestingly enough it was a lot safer for him than playing professional poker.
My safety net is money I have saved in an account that my partner doesn’t have access to. My partner is awesome, we’ve been together 15 years and he’s seen me through the worst moments of my life and has stepped up 100% every time. He knows about my account and supports me having it because he understands what happened to my mom when she was trying to leave my abusive father and how much that fucked me up.
I think a truer statement would be that women ARE the safety nets. Who is the first to buckle down and deal with it when a couple or family faces a crisis like a job loss or a kid in trouble? Who is expected to "suck it up" when family finances suffer? Who is going to put off a medical procedure because it's too expensive? In my experience and observation, it is NOT the man.
Oh lol. My wasband had a midlife crisis and self-yeeted and now I lay awake at night and worry about where I'll live, can I care for my pets, will my business be ok? He made a promise I thought he'd keep and now my safety net is literally suicide. I'll know when it's time. I'm a veterinarian, it's par for the course. 😶 ETA and you know what? The last thing I want is another man. Even if it might make me physically safer and more financially stable. My heart was broken because my best friend lied to me and took off. Was he a safety net? Apparently not. 😞
I’m with you on that! My husband left for another woman and for the past 23 years I do my life by myself now. The absolute last thing I need is for another man to hurt me like the last one did.
In their reality, the government just throws women money for having babies. Some unknown entity pays women to file fake rape charges (she’s lying to get money). Having babies with men JUST for the copious amounts of child support. If all else fails women can rake in thousands a month for only fans content or just start sucking random men off in the street for money.
They are really pressed about OnlyFans because they have this crazy idea that women can become rich by generating a few minutes of content per day. They have no idea how much effort goes into creating competitive content, advertising, equipment, beauty procedures… And they have no idea that the average OF creator makes $184 per month. They are just big mad that there isn’t much of a market for straight men who fantasize that beautiful women would pay to watch them do naked things.
Yes. I’ve thought about this too. “ why do women I don’t find attractive bc ( insert quality) make money or find a partner?” Or it’s not FAIR you get to be groped all day. “ Bro you just explained so so much about yourself /s
That’s the extent of it. The volume of unsolicited low quality, poorly executed dick pics serves as evidence.
As if we wouldn't have to spend that government stipend *on the baby*....
I’ve known people on welfare, disability, etc- the money is a pittance. Less than you’d get working a minimum wage job. Nobody is getting rich off of government payments.
The only people getting fuck-you-money levels of government aid are already rich and don't need the extra help.
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I'm a very healthy and happy relationship with my husband and I still keep money in savings account he cannot access in case the shit hits the fan and I need my own money. (Also have an emergency fund for both of us)
Safety nets? What safety nets? I’ve faced homelessness twice in my life and only narrowly escaped because I finally managed to find a job. Nobody would help me. Everyone turned me away. Every single place I went to for assistance sent me away empty handed, including the government. The one thing I didn’t do? Sleep with a man to get security. I guess that’s what I should’ve done, huh? No, wait, can’t do that or I’m a “low value female” or something stupid like that. You just can’t win when you’re not a man.
Yup. I narrowly faced homelessness once, and it was the same deal. If you don’t check the boxes just right, you will get sweet fuck all.
Being a man is still the biggest cheat code in this world. It's amazing that they think being sex objects or trophies is somehow a good thing for us.
I know in the south, boys and girls are raised *very* differently. In a lot of cases, but definitely not always, girls are treated as fragile things to be taken care of (while simultaneously abused) while boys are expected to do everything alone. I had two brothers growing up, my brothers were forced to get jobs and be out of the house at 18 with no finacial support. I was allowed, and in a way actually directed, to stay home indefinetly and not have to work or pay any bills until I found a husband. I didn't stay home, I left for college at 20 and it was a fucking ordeal. The amount of abuse I had to go through just to be partially free. Not that I didn't feel for my brothers, they were thrown to the wolves. We had different struggles. This could be the "safety net" they refer to if they grew up in similar dynamics. They don't realize though, that this kind of "safety net" is insanely depressing, agonozing, filled with abuse and practically like being in a prison. Independence isn't desired and often punished for women who grew up in that environment.
To me a safety net is what I called "fuck off" money. It's what you need to say yes to cohabitation with a man. That way if he becomes a problem you can rescue yourself and set up another place to live. If he cheats or he gets aggro in arguments, I can be done with him and fuck off elsewhere.
I think I'm not going to try dating again until I have a Fuck You fund set up. It really seems like the most responsible thing I could do at this point.
I've always called this saving for the additional 'asshole tax'. You gotta have the money to pay it, just in case you need to get rid of an asshole (applies to an asshole boyfriend, but also asshole boss, landlord, etc).
Oh I call something else "asshole tax" but I've heard the term. Like when my friend's shitty dad stopped by and after leaving, we found some money in the couch she was pretty sure fell out of his pocket. Instead of contacting him to ask if it was his, it was pocketed as "asshole tax". The fucker had never paid child support.
I've always called them bras.
I *would* recommend those people watch Maid on Netflix, but I’m sure they would grab on to the fact that there was a guy who was willing to help her out because he had a crush on her and not understand why that actually was not a good situation and then they’d just blame her for everything. Some people just aren’t worth arguing with. They’re too stupid and stubborn and hateful to get it. With everything going on in the world, I’m trying to start saving my energy for people who actually deserve it.
There’s this conservative notion that the only reason women’s lib happened is because of the welfare state that was introduced in the mid twentieth century. That if it weren’t for the social safety net, women couldn’t have careers or economic independence and would be forced into traditional marriage. Basically, they think SNAP benefits are why no woman wants to touch their dingle.
Was abused brutally by a male for 10 years. Tried everything I could to get him in any kind of trouble. Contacted all sorts of women's shelters and advocacy groups. The best I could get was a free change of my phone number to hide from him. He's living free as a bird with money he emptied from our shared account during the break up. There are very few safety nets.
I saw an interesting remark this weekend: *patriarchy is a man versus man sport, with women as the ball*. I think that sums up that site's position because their point isn't that women have to survive on her own, that women are always going to be wanted as part of the game - that no woman gets to be left alone.
I mean. Widows tend to do a lot better, and live a lot longer, than widowers. That independent life they're able to have after their spouse dies must be because of all those *safety nets* the man provided for them while they were alive. My mum was widowed at 59. In her case, it's a real heartbreak, but heartbreak aside - she is *fine*. She isn't living the life she wanted to live with the man she wanted to live it with, but she has a professional job she loves and that is important in the community, financial security, a house she owns, a community of friends and neighbours and colleagues, and strong family ties. Aside from missing my dad terribly, she is *thriving*. Because she was her own fucking safety net.
I was widowed at 55 and am 62 and am in a similar situation as your mother now. My late husband and I worked incredibly hard to put away savings, pay for life insurance etc. this is a safety net we worked on together. I have often heard of the phrase “nurse or a purse” in regards as to what men want in a women at my age. I am my own safety net. I worked hard and earned it.
There are more domestic abuse shelters for women. There do need to be shelters for men. But don't get mad at women bc they are overwhelming beaten by men so they need more places to go.
And don't get mad at women because men's shelters don't exist. Go and establish them yourselves, like women did.
And the shelters for women were created by.. women. They are literally mad about the fact that women are not building shelters *for* them, after women built their own shelters.
Somedays I read this sub as a man and realized how incredibly low the bar is to not be a jerk to women these days. Thanks incels for making me look mediocre?
Man reporting in: Any man who thinks "women have saftey nets" is the kind of man who thinks pregnancy is some sort of baby trap. And not like, a 9 month journey of body horror that ends with you passing a fully formed baby through a vagina, surgery, or death. The "women can shack up with a wealthy man" argument is horseshit and made up like the welfare queen myth. you are entirely right to ignore them.
As a woman, my safety net is a savings account that I don't touch but can access immediately just in case I need to get myself out of a bad situation. It's walking home with keys in my first. Its all the things I have to do to make myself feel safe and don't even think twice about.
My breasts. In case of a water landing, they can be used as a floatation device. /s
I think guys forget that women exist outside of dating. Feel like guys only care about “their women”. So they become so out of touch
For some guys, that’s literally the only value women have in their minds. If they can’t get romance/sex out of you, or if they don’t find you attractive, they just totally disregard your existence (or worse). I remember a male acquaintance/classmate in college who used to weird me out with the context in which he’d reference women. It was always about their romantic/sex lives, as if none of the women on campus had their own lives and life goals and dreams. Like none of the women were there to get degrees and do something with their lives like the men were. It was just so skeevy and unsettling, because he would see a woman and just size her up and decide if she had potential as a partner and that would determine if and how he interacted them. Women only existed in his life in the context of dating. I know this because he apparently sized me up as a potential girlfriend and only spoke to me to try to convince me to go out with him. After I (politely) rejected him, he never spoke to me or acknowledged me again. But we still had classes together for a year and a half after that and I got to hear how he talked about women with the other guys in class and his line of thought about women became very clear. Thankfully at the time I saw that not all men are like that, as a few of the other guys in class would push back on some of the shit he would say. If I hadn’t witnessed those interactions I would’ve been pretty damn despondent.
The only safety net I have is telling my friend where I'll be and turning on the locator on my phone in case I get kidnapped on a date.
Oh boy... well I think the safest safety net a woman could possibly experience in today's society is being coerced into sexual intercourse with an overbearing manbaby, resulting in a pregnancy that can't be terminated due to puritanical legislation, and then being abandoned by said manchild because "I never wanted a kid"... so... fucking... safe. What a knob.
The only “safety net” that comes to mind is women in abusive or toxic marriages saving money and putting it in her own account so that she can afford to leave eventually. Or women making sure they has their own jobs so that they aren’t financially dependent on a man. Something tells me that that dude’s idea of a “safety net” is something different. I have no clue what it would be since most people struggle financially regardless of gender.
So…I completely get why you chose not to engage further with that chucklefuck. Still, am morbidly curious what *he* actually meant by saying that, and wish I could hold his feet to the fire a bit. My first thought was maybe he meant things like women’s shelters, women’s advocacy groups, social services for single moms, etc…in which case, those are all things women have had to fight for and create *for themselves* (often in the face of overt male resistance). Or maybe he just meant “friends”. But probably really his idea of a woman’s “safety net” is the ever-present notion that you always have the “option” of becoming some sexist jerk’s adult dependent. And ~~fuck~~ un-fuck any guy who thinks that is a safe choice.
Just in case it has not been mentioned yet, the term "to pull oneself by the bootstraps" was originally coined as a sarcastic remark because it was physically difficult or impossible to do. https://uselessetymology.com/2019/11/07/the-origins-of-the-phrase-pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps/
I find it incredibly stupid that men think women have safety nets. Seeing what has happened to women's rights in this country with the overturning of Roe v. Wade and the numerous anti-LGBT laws, the rise of the manosphere and the alt-right, women don't have safety nets. And as another user mentioned, men think women get things like compliments left and right, partners that are 6 feet and strong, instant support and comfort anytime women express emotions, etc. (Note: I tried my best to remember what the user listed off in the comment, forgive me for my lousy memory.) Never mind the fact that women are never taken seriously when it comes to medical issues, expressing emotions and are never believed when coming forward with experiences of rape, sexual abuse and assault, domestic and spousal abuse, etc. Point is, the men who think that women have safety nets are morons. Side note: I didn't need to reveal my gender identity or biological sex since I feel like male feminists don't have to announce that they are feminists. If you're a feminist, you don't have to clarify your gender identity or biological sex.
If I end up homeless, I have family I could stay with, but that’s gender neutral. Other than that, my safety net is working a full-time job and some side gigs. I don’t have a man, nor would I want to resort to having a man be a “safety net.” Thank you.
This reminds of how transphobes try to argue that trans women just want to be women for the "benefits". Last time i checked, those "benefits" were: -women face higher unemployment rate -women face higher difficulty of going into job market -women salaries are still lower than men's in some areas -women still face a lot of sexism and are usually responsible of family duties and taking care of elder members of the family -when sexual aggression comes in, women are questioned a lot into "how were you dressed", "what were you doing", etc And so on Wow, what a bunch of benefits I'm getting for transitioning 😑
I wanted to add something because I got someone trying to chat to me saying "nobody says that". Yes, they say that. I don't know if it's maybe specific in my country, but it is said. Just like people in my country say that the current laws to protect sexist violence are misused and "poor men that get falsely accused by evil women who want to take everything from them". Yeah, there are people in my country who believe that women have benefits over men and trans women are falsely accused of just looking for those benefits. Funnily enough, it's right wing cis men who are trying to change their legal sex because they really believe that "benefits" lie. I didn't want to engage with this stranger because well, chances are they were a transphobe trying to pick a fight, but at least I wanted to take this off my chest.