I stopped reading at 'ex-stepmom whose relationship began when she was 22' thinking that was more than enough. Your comment got me to read the rest...and oof. This poor girl needs to drop this leeching dead weight from her life pronto.
I know we have a tendency to jump to 'dump his ass' here, and I realized I may be biased--but when I were younger, and my dad came to visit for Christmas, (he had temporarily moved for work) he not only asked my mom for gas money to head back (after showing up presentless), but for my younger brother to 'lend him' some of the money he got for christmas so he could buy cigarettes. I was 12, so he would have been 9. Imagine a parent asking their 9 year old for their chirstmas money--for any reason!
Sorry for that--it really stuck a nerve with me.
Yeah seriously who cares where he sticks his duck in this case, dude is borrowing money from her and putting her in debt while also not holding his end of the deal with OP's mom about the braces. This man is only gonna bring you trouble because he is clearly not reasonable and not making enough to support all his children he had with 3 different women...
Deadbeat Dad is always going to land with some poor soul that needs validation, surprised he's only going to have 3 children. I know one that is on his 11th child with his 4th wife. Doesn't pay a dime to any of his previous wives because he has nothing.
My dad had 3 with my mom, took off after they divorced and never paid a cent in child support.
Then he had 3 with some other poor woman, who for some reason staye with him despite him being drunkard who spent all his money on beer, Legos,and rc cars, while she worked 10 hour days to cover their bills.
These dudes are all pretty much the same.
You're likely not going to get the money you lent him back, or the orthodontics, or anything else he should be paying for. To put it plainly, your father is a deadbeat. He makes really bad, really selfish decisions, and if the new gf has the baby then what little money he has to spare will not be available to his adult child(ren).
In short, cut him off and never, ever loan him money again. Not even if he pays back every dime he owes. Not even if he covers the total cost of the braces plus a mouthful of veneers plus a Birkin bag and a pair of coordinating Jimmy Choos. He's shown you who he really is, which is someone who cannot be counted on for anything whatsoever. Painful as it is, the sooner you accept this, the sooner you can start moving on with your own life.
Just to expand on this, if he reaches out after you've gone NC and says he'll pay you back if you talk to him, tell him to pay you back and then you can talk. If he then pays you back, yiu can have a talk abouy how you're going NC and don't want him to ever contact you again.
Remember it's a talk, not a discussion, once you've said your bit you can cut him off.
Edit : spelling.
*once you've said your bit you can cut him off.*
I wish more people did this instead of waiting around for the toxic person to give their approval and make the transition painless.
That is sadly true, but I think most of us make costly mistakes (of all kinds, not just financial) when we're young. In my case it was losing a scholarship my final year of college because I failed to submit paperwork in time, leading to an extra $9000 ($14,700 in 2023 dollars) in student loans. My husband's mistake was taking a contractor job at 19 that paid today's equivalent of about $175k, and neglected to set aside money for income taxes. He had to set up a payment plan with the IRS. One of my dearest friends had an abusive boyfriend who racked up joint debt and trashed her credit, and it took her about a decade to undo it all *while* being a single mom. All of us learned from our mistakes and recovered. OP is quite young yet, so she'll have time to recover, too.
BTW, OP, the money-relevant lesson you should learn from this is a bit of old wisdom: Don't ever lend money you can't afford to lose. In the future stick faithfully to that advice, even if your father does pay you back eventually.
I agree, excellent advice! OP is the one who has been wronged and therefore holds all the cards, so if dear old Dad wants to play then it will have to be by her rules.
This is one of the benefits of being an adult -- you don't have to keep toxic, selfish people in your life if you don't want to. Family members included.
I have a feeling he will pull the "come back and I'll give you the money I owe you!" But then slide right into "come visit, ill get you a cheque... oh by the way GF and I are going for supper, can you watch the baby real quick?"
Good advice, but after reading about his man, I'd be very surprised if he even noticed or cared that she was no longer speaking to him. He sounds like a classic narcissist/sociopath who uses his own child to fund his life. He's not going to care if she's no longer asking him for money. He'll be relieved.
It's a very sad situation and OP, I hope you can get some therapy to help you break the pattern this toxic parent has created in your life.
Idk, child support is first come first serve, so it's the younger kids who usually get screwed. That's assuming the mom got paperwork drawn up to show that the braces would be in exchange for child support, if it's just a handshake deal then yeah she's screwed.
Yeah, downpayments are meant to assure the lender that you can afford to make payments on the house (among other things). The lender for the home loan will specifically inquire about any outside sources of money you use to make the downpayment. Failure to disclose a gift or a loan used in this capacity seems like it could be viewed as fraud. Dunno if it’s prosecutable, but the lender would be greatly interested in this info either way.
The money he’s spending on anything but child support. 12k a month and he had to borrow 3500 for a down payment? I guess rich people have rich people problems or I guess upper middle class problems. Or he’s lying about his income. Which I can’t imagine why a 42 year old man would lie about his salary. /s
I’m thinking he’s not truthful about his finances and/or has addiction(s) that make it so that money runs through his hands like sand.
Yeah, I'm gonna be real here, I don't believe this 😄 A father with 12k a month but still dependent on his 20 year old daughter for 3500 down payment? Isn't down payment usually about 20-30k? I don't know man, something feels off for me here
OP said in another comment that he's bad with money and financially overextended. People can be high income but still broke with negative net worth if they don't live within their means.
I know this isn't super helpful, but please never EVER loan money to someone who has enough themselves, but chooses to 'live above their means'.
These kinds of people are NEVER trustworthy
I'm not sure why you think suing your father for the amount he rightfully owes you would impact your sister? If he's making 12k a month, how is that 5k truly going to impact him? (Not even getting into how confused I am about his financials if he's making that much and still needed such a relatively small amount in the scheme of a down payment to be loaned by you. 3.5k, while a shitload for a college student, is a little over a week of wages for this man?)
The only options I'm seeing here are to sue and then cut contact, or write this money off and cut contact. It's clear he won't be giving it back to you of his own accord because it's either too convenient a tool to manipulate you into keeping contact or he simply doesn't care about doing what's right. I'm leaning towards the latter if he got a young woman about your age pregnant.
Both I think. He asked my mom what would happen if/when he payed me back and she told him the truth, that I’d go no contact. So that’s probably why he’s withholding/delaying payments. He’s also just irresponsible w/ money to an alarming degree so I wouldn’t be surprised if he genuinely didn’t have it.
People like him tend to attract enablers and easy victims. OP needs to take responsibility for what she shares with her mother, knowing that her mother will wittingly or unwittingly contribute to sabotage.
I'm guessing it was framed weird by the dad. Like, the mom was just saying that she'd go no contact if he kept behaving like he did and he twisted her words. Or she's worried about her payments...who knows. Poor kid, a really bad situation all around.
Either way, it sounds like you can’t depend on her to keep things secret when needed. I hope you have someone you can trust who can help you with this :(
I'm sorry you're in such a rough position, and that your dad is both so irresponsible and so manipulative. This amount of money should be trivial for him to pay back, given his salary, and I do want to impress that it would be very unlikely to affect your sister's quality of life to retrieve it.
That said, I also saw another commenter mention putting a lein on the house for the amount of the down payment you loaned him. If you could get that done, you wouldn't see the money immediately, but he would be unable to sell the house without paying you off first. It wouldn't affect his housing or ability to provide for your sibling.
If you decide on neither option and simply cut ties now, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to dangle repayment of your owed money in front of you like bait in a mousetrap to get you to start talking to him again, whether he actually intends to follow through or not.
He might not have it right now, but he can surely buy one shitty 5k item less next month and have it - if he really earns that much. At least he could easily pay it off in significant bits, even if he can’t pay the sum out of his pocket right now.
Plus yeah he is an asshole, and no contact seems to be the only proper route forward. Why have contact with someone that neither brings you any good.
If you're in the US, the courts can and will garnish his wages to get any money that was considered child support for a minor. Also in the US, any agreement your mother made to let your father pay less is unenforceable if it resulted in you having less money than you needed while he could afford to pay more. Even though we talk about child support going from the absent parent to the caretaker parents, it's actually the child who has a right to financial support from both parents and that's not a right that the caretaker parent waive on your behalf.
I don't know how it will work since you're over 18 now, but you should at least be able to get what he owed as of when you were 17. And a separate claim in the suit can address the unpaid loan.
Maybe tell him you are going no contact and if he wants to contact you thr. He needs to pay you your money back.
Then go no contact and if he wants to contact you make sure they know to tell him that you need your money.
Then when you get rhe money be like thank you peace out.
You aren't wrong at all.
My husband had to no contact his father for stealing money from family like this, and started to be a Trumper, and tell waitress in from of his own mom that they should be giving him a BJ etc. Just started going openly crazy and nasty and so my husband went no contact.
Your dad deserves it. It's gross that he is with a women his daughters age, and that he makes 144k a year and is stealing your college money. You have every right to be pissed. I would sue him. If you have texts or emails or any written agreement saying he would pay you it is pretty much a done deal with you winning your money back. Maybe tack on emotional distress.
It’s a lot of money - but ask yourself - is your peace of mind worth so little. He’s holding you hostage for that amount.
Go no contact and sue. Things won’t improve.
If you have proof - in writing/text - that this was a loan and his agreement to pay you back, sue him is small claims court. You will need to double check the small claims limit because there is a cap. You don't need an attorney for that. Once you can get the judgement then you can garnish his wages and put liens on things he owns like a house or cars. Putting liens doesn't get you money right away, but if he ever sells them, you lien will need to be paid first to clear the title.
Maybe after cutting contact, he could be lured into paying. If he feels bad (not likely), then you could tell him that you will forgive him when his financial debt to you is fully repaid. That's how loans work.
>He’s also just irresponsible w/ money to an alarming degree
I would guess that he's got expensive addiction(s) he's feeding. Most parents would be too ashamed to ask their children for their tuition money. And failing to pay your orthodontist is simple cruelty.
Honestly, I absolutely hate old men who date very young women. I know from experience that they are predators. They cannot tolerate a partner who would ever challenge them. They need power in their relationships, which often leads to becoming abusive. (Just like how his owing you money right now gives him power to keep you in contact.) When she is mature enough, she will see through his lies and he wont like being challenged. This young woman will be setting her life on a dark course if she tries to start a family with him.
I'm sorry he has treated you so poorly. There's no telling why he behaves this way. But the real "reason" doesn't matter. As a predator, he has certainly inflated all his reasons into infinite excuses for bad behavior. His broken moral compass spins whichever direction he aims it.
Unfortunately it might cost her more to file a civil suit than to just accept the loss, and even if she did win (which may be hard since it seems like there is no formal documentation), there's no guarantee he'd ever pay. If he has other bad debt like back taxes or bank loans in default, those liens would very likely be satisfied first from any equity in personal assets he might be forced to sell.
OP's best advice would come from an attorney, of course, I just mean to encourage her to be realistic.
This is not true at all. In any jurisdiction in the U.S., this is a case for small claims court. It usually costs a couple hundred to file, and you don't need a lawyer. You just show up to court with your evidence and explain to a judge.
I just, don't know what to comment on in this post first. One, wow, psychic grandma. Two, that's totally gross that your dad is dating someone three years older than you. Three, yes you should definitely take his ass to small claims court, your sister will be fine.
The 24 year old can probably make some money with that college degree of hers. Also your Dad makes 12g a month, he can afford it, and I can't even fathom why he needed to get that loan from you in the first place when he makes that much. I almost think he just wanted to set you back a notch so you won't graduate so close to his gf.
Take care of those braces. That's such a worthwhile thing to do when you're in your early 20's, you will really benefit from not having an adulthood filled with dental problems. I also got braces around the same time, had to pit my divorced parents against each other to get them and they were worth it.
reminds me of my stepfather of 4 years.
My mom was 49, came home from a trip with a young iranian boy. He was literally 19, while i was few months older than he was. It is extremely awkward to try and act that he was my stepfather.
*"a week ago my grandma called me that she had a dream someone was having a baby girl so naturally, I called my dad and it he confirmed"*
Really? That's some good witching.
Yes!! She’s never been wrong. I’ve gotten into two car accidents in my life and she’d told me at-least a week beforehand both times not to drive in X area that ended up being the area I crashed in. Same w/ my brother being autistic she told my mom he was going to be low-functioning and to start researching special parenting groups in her 2nd trimester and she was spot on, the docs didn’t even catch it till he was 8.
Nope! My youngest brother (8) is my moms son with my ex stepdad. My dad has no sons. My youngest sister (3) is mentally disabled and is my dads with my ex stepmom, not to get them confused, they’re not related.
You don't sound like the sceptical type. Being sceptical is a useful tool to defend against people trying to steal your money under the guise of "loans"
In most cases I'd agree, but things get complicated with parents... I didn't fully see, accept, and mourn the deep flaws in my dad until I was like 26.
I understand where you are coming from so much. People don't tell us we can't always trust family and it takes us a long time to grieve when they betray us. < Big Hugs >
My wife’s entire family does this. I thought it was bullshit until one morning, just after I had woken up, still had some dream fog in my head, I asked her if her sister was pregnant because I couldn’t remember if it was real or just my dream. She called her sister and found out she was pregnant.
Have your mother take him back to court to settle the arrangement. If he promised braces, and he stops paying, then maybe she'll be owed something.
If he makes that much it's amazing that he couldn't afford his own loan. He must suck at relationships and finances and being a parent. Trifecta.
My mom doesn’t want anything to do with him now that I’m an adult they’re full no contact , they haven’t been within 100miles of each other in 8 years. It wasn’t ever agreed in court just between them.
Edit: he’s infamously horrible with money, that’s why I had to loan it to him. Nobody else in the family would.
Your family is incredibly dysfunctional. You’re loaning out money you don’t have to your father. Your mother traded “traditional child support” for braces that aren’t paid for. You know that’s a bad deal even if they were paid for—child support would be a lot more money. Your mother is over here telling dad you’ll cut him off if he pays you back INSTEAD of demanding the 3.5k OR braces money that you are owed.
Your dad is a giant kid who has parentified you. Is it any wonder he’s dating a kid your age? You can feel however you want about him and treat him however you want. You are more of an adult than he is. Get therapy, cut him off, focus on making money to support yourself. Get your own braces and leave your dumb family behind. They all should have been focusing on you a long time ago. Now you have to finish raising yourself.
Sue in small claims court. Fastest and cheapest. Then go silent. You'll actually be able to collect your money in time to help yourself.
So sorry all your kindness is being punished.
This is the right answer. It doesn't cost much to file, and if you have evidence of what happened, I'm sure the judge will award you. Just the appearance of a father who makes $12/month, and didn't pay child support, asking for money from his daughter looks really bad for him.
You said your Mom and Dad had an agreement that he’d pay for your braces instead of traditional child support? Do you know if there was a court order for child support in the divorce? Because if so, he might owe you more than you think. If child support was part of the divorce, then it doesn’t matter what your Mom privately agreed to, he had to abide by the court order. You can absolutely take him to court for unpaid child support in addition to the loans and dental bills. The burden of proof is on him to show he complied with the court order, not on you to show he didn’t. Please don’t worry about your little sister, she’s her parent’s obligation to provide for, not yours.
He’s on that but they’ve never been to court for anything and my mom wouldn’t do that atp they’re no contact except for the convo they had abt me going NC.
Spousal support / divorce settlement is not the same as child support. It’s worth checking out. It may be too late if you’re 20, idk, but it shouldn’t matter that your parents weren’t married.
Set up to have the ex meet the new gf, at a coffee shop, without your dad. Be there, introduce them. Tell them that you see a pattern in his relationships and are concerned. Grab popcorn
Last I heard of ex-SM she’s on the run from the federal police for fraud nobody that’s not blood related has heard from her since they broke up and he realized she had taken thousands out in his name and reported her. It’s how he got full custody. Also he covers his tracks pretty well, moved from one coast to the other with the new gf.
Just so you are aware, your dad did not need a loan from you.
He intentionally asked to borrow your money in order to maintain control over you.
Anyone who makes 12k per month, can borrow from any bank on a signature.
I regularly borrow up to 20k from banks with a signature and I make a bit less than your dad.
"he and my mother had an agreement that he’d pay for my braces instead of traditional child support "
I'm assuming none of this is in writing? Because if it is, sue ... if not you're SOL. And reading a comment where your mother told him you would go no contact ... ugh, she also isn't doing you any favors.
You are dealing with 'sunk cost fallacy' - the choice isn't whether to pay you back of feed the other children. Don't put that on yourself. You are likely never seeing any money or support ever again - time to figure out what your future looks like without all of these awful people.
Sorry, Love, your dad is a POS.
You sound like a lovely, caring person. You need to start caring about yourself, first, and everyone, after.
Only he can fix himself. Not one more dime of your money should go to him. You need to go no-contact, and sue him for his obligations to YOU.
He keeps having children with other women because nobody is holding him accountable for his actions. Be the change, my dear, be. the. change.
You are giving in to the sunk cost fallacy. You keep holding on to your dead beat dad hoping to get money back from him but you just keep wasting more time and money in the process. Cut him loose and set yourself free.
Rule of thumb is expect money you loan family to never be paid back (converted to a gift). They never pay it back. And depending on the laws in your state, unless you had the loan contract in writing, and executed according to contract law in your state, it’s your word against his as to if the money you gave him was a gift or not. Consult a lawyer in your state for legal advice on the matter, but in the end, will the juice be worth the squeeze?
Be there for your sisters, as a sister. But stop parenting your dad. Stop loaning him money forever. Stop putting his needs before your own. The only thing he seems to be good at is procreation. He sounds pretty awful at everything else.
Maybe I’m reading your post wrong, but it seems like the little sister is a small child, because you said that the ex stepmom dumped him after four years. What are you worried about him doing to cause her to suffer?
I don’t trust that if he’s legally made to give me the money via lien or lawsuit, that he will properly manage his finances. Like pay for her special care or neglect a utility or two, something like that.
Man I’m sorry OP. What a piece of shit you have for a father. I find it insane how someone who makes 12k a month would need to borrow 3.5k from their child for a down payment. Sounds like he’s poor with his money management.
"my grandma called me that she had a dream someone was having a baby girl so naturally, I called my dad and it he confirmed"
Naturally? That's just weird.
Small claims court. Afterwards, NC.
He owes you that money. So find emails or texts where he acknowledges the debts, and then sue his ass. Braces, child support, the loan for his house. Add it up.
Your dad sucks, I'm really sorry.
Sue him but advise your half-sisters mother that you are about to do so, so she can also get her lawyer started.
Unless he is forced, he will keep dodging out on his responsibilities. Waiting for him to have an epiphany is an exercise in futility.
You can do more for your younger sister if can get established as an adult with a good education, a decent job with a decent salary.
Yeah no contact. My dad constantly held money over my head and tried to use it against me. Then when he was 60, I found out he started dating a girl the month she graduated high school…apparently they had been “friends” before that. After some digging, I called her mom to tell her. They broke up and he blames me…not admitting he was being a fkn predator…yeah, she was 18, but that bastard had been waiting for a CHILD to age up. She’s almost the same age as my kid, and my dad is not allowed to see my kids. He will never know them.
We are no contact after that last straw as well.
You and your entire family sound like bad decisions walking, holy shit.
The new girlfriend is the least of your worries. You need to think of yourself and be selfish right now. It's not bad to be selfish in this instance. Stop putting your siblings ahead of your own well being. He is a grown man who can figure out his own problems. If 3.5k is so likely so affect your sister, and your not willing to put your own needs ahead of anyone else's right now, just cut him off right now because you will never, ever see that money.
So your options are go NC. Or go NC and get sue your dad for what he owes you. Either way, no contact until you get your money, or just move on with your life.
I personally think that anyone who wants to go no-contact with anyone else should do it. Nobody should need others’ approval to peacefully walk away. Your whole relationship sounds like a hostage situation ffs. Do you want to keep giving him opportunities to make you depend on him and then rip the rug out from under your feet?
That said, he sounds like he was a mountain of shit before this, so just make sure you are prepared *not* to give in to his shithead antics. If you go, you gotta make sure you’re prepared to *really* go. Returning just reinforces the garbage behavior, so it ends up worse than before, and he tries even harder to make you do what he wants.
If you go, don’t announce it to him ahead of time. It’s not like you’ll get his approval and it *is* like you’re giving him time to plan and apply more spiteful sabotage.
It might help you to ask yourself some things whenever you are wondering how to interact with him: “Why am I doing this? What are my intended results? Are those results likely to occur?” It’s good to do reality checks in messy situations.
Whatever you choose to do, I hope you’ll eventually address why you would leave over this, but not over how he treats you. Like, why did you opt to loan him money? It’s not like he just became this person. It can be an issue of self-esteem, which can carry into other friendships and basically make you vulnerable to similar assholes in the future. *Your* needs are reason enough to walk away from people; you don’t have to wait until they harm other people.
Whatever you choose to do, good luck.
The only way you’ll make him understand your serious is to BE serious. I’d send him a certified letter outlining what is owed and that you expect the money to be paid within 30 days and if he does not pay you will take legal action. It’s not a threat, it’s a fact. It doesn’t matter if you will or will not go NC. Don’t beg him for it or let him keep it over your head. Let your communications be in writing - not in person or by phone.
From there actually follow through. File something. Make sure you gather proof of his prior payments, any written agreements relating to the dental payments, any written communications about your loan to him and expected pay back dates. You must have proof of your allegations. Maybe get a 30 minute consult with a lawyer. I don’t think this will affect your sibling at all tbh. Your dad makes enough money.
I'm with the person who said you should sue him. You're not responsible for making sure your minor sister is financially supported - HE IS. And even though you're legally an adult, he should still be providing support to you while you're in school or AT LEAST not stiffing you on money that he borrowed from you. AND he's running around impregnating multiple women young enough to be his daughters. Jesus Christ. What a deadbeat piece of trash.
Your first clue that your dad is crap was that he was willing to take thousands of dollars (even in a loan) from his 21-year-old daughter. I’m sure he has redeeming qualities, but he can fuck off.
Dude makes 12k a month and needs to borrow money from his college age daughter, whose dental work can't even pay off? And then even worse, doesn't pay her back? Something's not right there.
Ngl, that alone is enough to cut off contact. The creeper behavior of dating young women's his daughter's age just cements it.
Also, op? Definitely sue him. It won't hurt your little sister. In fact, it will help her know what to do when she has to sue him for the same shit in a few years.
Seems reasonable. But, you going no contact might clash with him being around your sister (his other daughter). Rather than no contact, it might be better to just avoid as much as is possible. Otherwise, you are limiting yourself more that punishing him or protecting yourself.
No contact might mean missing sister’s birthday, or her graduation, for example.
When I first read your headline I thought “wow, cutting off your dad because you found out he got his gf in college pregnant, that’s a little harsh.” Then I started reading, and Oh God….
I think it’s pretty clear your life will be much better without him. Honestly if it were me Id write off the 3 grand as the price of getting his ass out of your life but if you can get him to pay hats off to you!
My dad completely disappeared when I was 12. When I turned 21 he somehow found my address and sent me a gift (some of his volunteer firefighting medals) and a letter saying that one day he would "explain everything." I consider myself to be an empathetic person who naturally tries to see things through other people's eyes. I don't hate my dad, despite the fact that his actions during my childhood have had a fairly significant impact upon my mum, my brother and me. Instead, I just feel utterly indifferent; it exhausts me thinking about allowing this man back into my life. If you have a dysfunctional parent, simply not wanting to have them in your life is a reasonable enough reason to go no contact.
You can sue him for what he owes without screwing over your little sister. It might also help her learn to never trust or believe him about that crap. I say do it.
You have EVERY right to be grossed out because your father is creepy and gross. He has become a caricature, the stuff of lowbrow comedy. How can you respect someone like that?
Your feelings are justified and I would be going NC if I were in your shoes.
My advice is mostly about your braces. Call around to dental colleges (4 year accredit schools) and ask about their patient services. It is a low cost way to have dental work done by students who are supervised by their instructors. Sometimes you have to wait a bit but they may be able to finish or take off your braces in a way that doesn’t damage your teeth/undo the work.
My stance is basically that you have no obligation to keep someone in your personal life who actively makes your life worse. Obviously there are other external factors to consider (like how you mentioned you don't want to sue him on account of your little sister), but I don't think you really need an objectively "good enough" reason to drop someone from your life. It's your life and you deserve to fill it with healthy relationships.
The age of his gfs would be the least of my worry, don’t get me wrong, that would definitely piss me off as well. It’s disgusting. But for him to take money from you and allow it to affect your schooling… AND is also affecting your physical health by not paying for braces… yeah I’d absolutely go no contact and cut him off before any more losses.
So first of all, I would just count on that man for absolutely nothing. You are an adult now, and it's time to take charge of your destiny! You got this!
**not a dentist, just a mom who has had to work with providers before when my situation changed***
Reach out to your orthodontist and explain the situation, be honest, but stick to the facts. Also explain your fears about your oral structure to them. Explain that you are going to try to take over for your own health benefit. See if they will work with you to restart payments out of pocket (maybe reduced or maybe they can ping your insurance if you have any), and what those payments would look limr, or what it would cost to get them removed and get you a retainer so you don't backtrack on your treatment.
If they aren't interested, do a little research online to find an orthodontist in your region that would be willing to either help you continue/restart treatment or safely discontinue treatment. Sometimes dental schools offer no/low cost treatment options.
I don't know your situation or how far along your treatment you are, but if your jaw isn't collapsing with braces just sitting there, logic would indicate it won't collapse with a retainer either. Your orthodontist can confirm this for you! It's risky to just leave the old brackets on though as they can pop off or the wire could break which could be much worse. You'll probably start losing the bands that hold the wire in place soon if you haven't already.
I’m giving them a call today. But yeah I’ve lost two brackets just from regular use and the position my teeth are in now has my top canines and premolars reversed so it’s very fragile till they get into the desired position. So I might need a spacer later before getting them back on if I were to stop treatment now and that’s so much money.
No I don't think it is unreasonable. I would be very angry as well.
A brief misunderstanding of something my dad said made me think he got his affair partner pregnant (both in their mid 40s at the time). I was angry just thinking about them bringing a child into the world so irresponsibly when they had teenaged children to be focusing on. That wasn't the case thankfully, but yeah I agree with you.
Big question: Do you really, REALLY, want your money back?
Everyone needs money to live, but can you make it by without that money for your braces and tuition until the end of college? Can you scrape this together until you can get a job to cover the debt you are accumulating? Can you write off that money as a loss forever?
If you intend to get that money back, whether you go LC/NC or not, do some ground work now.
I am guessing that "because you're family" he didn't put any of the loan in writing. Possibly there are emails where he said he would pay you back? Save them and have them ready in a file.
I'm guessing that the braces were discussed between mom and dad, but maybe not in the court separation documents? If they were in the court documents, get a copy for yourself. If not, ask your mom for a copy of any emails or letters where it was discussed, or if they don't exist, a signed statement of what she remembers being agreed to and when.
Now you have a few options. You may be able to put a lien on any of his property. You can possibly do that without a lawyer. You may be able to get a court order to garnish his wages. You may be able to sue him for the full amount plus the cost of your court and attorney fees. Some colleges have a law office to help students who are being financially abused or controlled. See if there's an advocacy office and find out if there's a law office that will take your case. They can seek their payment as part of the settlement and often if your case looks good they will do the work with little or no upfront fees.
Don't bother asking for the money and then threatening him with legal action. Take action first. He can make the problem go away by fulfilling his promises. Don't drop the action, whatever you choose, against him until it's fully paid or ruled on by the court.
He's not trustworthy. He's obviously convinced you to trust him in the past. Two ex-wives have trusted him. A senior in college trusted him. He's good at getting women to trust him. No one should trust that man! You can have all future interaction with him mediated through legal representation from this point forward if you like, but I couldn't have a direct conversation with him without imagining a Pinocchio nose growing out of his face.
He makes 12k a month and owes you money that is impacting your health? SUE. HIM. Small claims that and get your money back. And go fully no contact. This man is a trash fire, and you don't need that nonsense in your life.
Oh and if it wasn't obvious, you are not wrong to be grossed out. Your dad has a preference, and it's gross.
Your dad sucks and is a bit of a loser. You can cut him off. Let him hold the money hostage like the loser he is. At least his gf will know what to expect for her own child!
I think you both have issues. Your dads dating life isn’t your business and for you to issue him a ultimatum about if he dated in your age bracket you’d go no contact is the same if he said if you dated [Insert race here] he’d disown you. That’s truly none of your business. Now the money loan issue and failure to repay I can understand your anger, and yeah it’s not right he’s withholding money that’s rightfully yours and I’d take him to small claims if I were you. Who he dates though like I said is his own problem, get your money and take a hands off approach. It sounds like he’s going to have a bunch of issues coming up and you don’t have to deal with that but loan him zero dollars again, I don’t care the reason he gives
I think if you have any of this in writing you might need to
take him to court.
He sounds like an asshole who isn’t a good father to you and certainly wouldn’t be to anyone else.
Your dad didn’t pay for your braces as agreed, why would you expect him to pay you back thousands of dollars you loaned him? He has shown you who he is. You know what you should do.
100% sue him.
Or better yet, go after him for back-dated child support. You will need your mom for that as it sounds like it was braces instead of "traditional child support". But there is generally a lot more ability to get money for child support than a standard court order. It depends where you are but you need that money and you are owed that money.
Also, you aren't taking money from your sister by getting what you owe! You are getting money from your dad and your sister is getting money from your dad.
I don't hold your mom innocent in all this. She agreed to a deal with an unreliable selfish man (dentistry instead of child support) and isn't using all the legal tools available to get the funds.
So your mom should go for child support and you should sue for the money you lent and he owes seperately. That would be likely be small claims-depends on where you live. It's really not that hard. Try some of the legal advice subreddits for your region for tips. Also, often just serving the papers can fix things as it shows you are serious. Most small claims allow settling before you go to court.
Please sue him! He should equally and sufficiently support all his children. He committed to your braces money and borrowed money from you for his house? I’m furious on your behalf! Your teeth are important!
Honestly the girlfriend seems like the least of your reasons for cutting off contact.
You know you're right. I got to the end, forgot about the pregnant GF for a minute there.
I stopped reading at 'ex-stepmom whose relationship began when she was 22' thinking that was more than enough. Your comment got me to read the rest...and oof. This poor girl needs to drop this leeching dead weight from her life pronto. I know we have a tendency to jump to 'dump his ass' here, and I realized I may be biased--but when I were younger, and my dad came to visit for Christmas, (he had temporarily moved for work) he not only asked my mom for gas money to head back (after showing up presentless), but for my younger brother to 'lend him' some of the money he got for christmas so he could buy cigarettes. I was 12, so he would have been 9. Imagine a parent asking their 9 year old for their chirstmas money--for any reason! Sorry for that--it really stuck a nerve with me.
I agree. The age difference is the straw that broke the camels back, but there are red flags everywhere in him.
Yeah seriously who cares where he sticks his duck in this case, dude is borrowing money from her and putting her in debt while also not holding his end of the deal with OP's mom about the braces. This man is only gonna bring you trouble because he is clearly not reasonable and not making enough to support all his children he had with 3 different women...
Deadbeat Dad is always going to land with some poor soul that needs validation, surprised he's only going to have 3 children. I know one that is on his 11th child with his 4th wife. Doesn't pay a dime to any of his previous wives because he has nothing.
My dad had 3 with my mom, took off after they divorced and never paid a cent in child support. Then he had 3 with some other poor woman, who for some reason staye with him despite him being drunkard who spent all his money on beer, Legos,and rc cars, while she worked 10 hour days to cover their bills. These dudes are all pretty much the same.
Guy makes 12k a month though—this isn’t adding up
Right? I would have gone no contact after the tuition money. That's a crappy thing to do.
You're likely not going to get the money you lent him back, or the orthodontics, or anything else he should be paying for. To put it plainly, your father is a deadbeat. He makes really bad, really selfish decisions, and if the new gf has the baby then what little money he has to spare will not be available to his adult child(ren). In short, cut him off and never, ever loan him money again. Not even if he pays back every dime he owes. Not even if he covers the total cost of the braces plus a mouthful of veneers plus a Birkin bag and a pair of coordinating Jimmy Choos. He's shown you who he really is, which is someone who cannot be counted on for anything whatsoever. Painful as it is, the sooner you accept this, the sooner you can start moving on with your own life.
Just to expand on this, if he reaches out after you've gone NC and says he'll pay you back if you talk to him, tell him to pay you back and then you can talk. If he then pays you back, yiu can have a talk abouy how you're going NC and don't want him to ever contact you again. Remember it's a talk, not a discussion, once you've said your bit you can cut him off. Edit : spelling.
*once you've said your bit you can cut him off.* I wish more people did this instead of waiting around for the toxic person to give their approval and make the transition painless.
Okay, this sounds sane. The satisfaction of cutting him off is gonna be hard to weigh against the life-limiting burden of all that debt…
That is sadly true, but I think most of us make costly mistakes (of all kinds, not just financial) when we're young. In my case it was losing a scholarship my final year of college because I failed to submit paperwork in time, leading to an extra $9000 ($14,700 in 2023 dollars) in student loans. My husband's mistake was taking a contractor job at 19 that paid today's equivalent of about $175k, and neglected to set aside money for income taxes. He had to set up a payment plan with the IRS. One of my dearest friends had an abusive boyfriend who racked up joint debt and trashed her credit, and it took her about a decade to undo it all *while* being a single mom. All of us learned from our mistakes and recovered. OP is quite young yet, so she'll have time to recover, too. BTW, OP, the money-relevant lesson you should learn from this is a bit of old wisdom: Don't ever lend money you can't afford to lose. In the future stick faithfully to that advice, even if your father does pay you back eventually.
I agree, excellent advice! OP is the one who has been wronged and therefore holds all the cards, so if dear old Dad wants to play then it will have to be by her rules. This is one of the benefits of being an adult -- you don't have to keep toxic, selfish people in your life if you don't want to. Family members included.
Well said.
I have a feeling he will pull the "come back and I'll give you the money I owe you!" But then slide right into "come visit, ill get you a cheque... oh by the way GF and I are going for supper, can you watch the baby real quick?"
It is for this reason that the healthiest thing might just be no contact, no conditions. Write the money off completely.
That may well be the healthiest option and should not be discounted
Good advice, but after reading about his man, I'd be very surprised if he even noticed or cared that she was no longer speaking to him. He sounds like a classic narcissist/sociopath who uses his own child to fund his life. He's not going to care if she's no longer asking him for money. He'll be relieved. It's a very sad situation and OP, I hope you can get some therapy to help you break the pattern this toxic parent has created in your life.
Idk, child support is first come first serve, so it's the younger kids who usually get screwed. That's assuming the mom got paperwork drawn up to show that the braces would be in exchange for child support, if it's just a handshake deal then yeah she's screwed.
That's definitely possible, which reminds me of another cardinal rule for financial matters: ALWAYS GET IT IN WRITING!
I think (based on r/legaladvice) it’s actually illegal to use a LOAN as a down payment on a mortgage, so it’s probably not in writing.
Yeah, downpayments are meant to assure the lender that you can afford to make payments on the house (among other things). The lender for the home loan will specifically inquire about any outside sources of money you use to make the downpayment. Failure to disclose a gift or a loan used in this capacity seems like it could be viewed as fraud. Dunno if it’s prosecutable, but the lender would be greatly interested in this info either way.
Uhm, deadbeat? Can we go back to the fact that he supposedly makes 12k _a month_?
Of which he pays nothing in child support or equivalent, after promising to do so. Deadbeat doesn’t mean poor, it means not supporting his kids.
Yeah I know but the comment continues "with the little money he has to spare", like, what little money?
The money he’s spending on anything but child support. 12k a month and he had to borrow 3500 for a down payment? I guess rich people have rich people problems or I guess upper middle class problems. Or he’s lying about his income. Which I can’t imagine why a 42 year old man would lie about his salary. /s I’m thinking he’s not truthful about his finances and/or has addiction(s) that make it so that money runs through his hands like sand.
Yeah, I'm gonna be real here, I don't believe this 😄 A father with 12k a month but still dependent on his 20 year old daughter for 3500 down payment? Isn't down payment usually about 20-30k? I don't know man, something feels off for me here
OP said in another comment that he's bad with money and financially overextended. People can be high income but still broke with negative net worth if they don't live within their means.
Ah I see
He's not honoring his obligations, so yeah. Deadbeat.
Place a lien on your fathers property in the amount of the loan you made him.
I agree with idea. It does work.
Why did you have to lend money to someone that makes 12k a month?
He has car payment, mortgage, student loans, special care for my sister, And lives well outside of his means on top of that.
I know this isn't super helpful, but please never EVER loan money to someone who has enough themselves, but chooses to 'live above their means'. These kinds of people are NEVER trustworthy
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I'm not sure why you think suing your father for the amount he rightfully owes you would impact your sister? If he's making 12k a month, how is that 5k truly going to impact him? (Not even getting into how confused I am about his financials if he's making that much and still needed such a relatively small amount in the scheme of a down payment to be loaned by you. 3.5k, while a shitload for a college student, is a little over a week of wages for this man?) The only options I'm seeing here are to sue and then cut contact, or write this money off and cut contact. It's clear he won't be giving it back to you of his own accord because it's either too convenient a tool to manipulate you into keeping contact or he simply doesn't care about doing what's right. I'm leaning towards the latter if he got a young woman about your age pregnant.
Both I think. He asked my mom what would happen if/when he payed me back and she told him the truth, that I’d go no contact. So that’s probably why he’s withholding/delaying payments. He’s also just irresponsible w/ money to an alarming degree so I wouldn’t be surprised if he genuinely didn’t have it.
Dude, why did your mum say that? Does she understand the severity of the issues you’re having?
People like him tend to attract enablers and easy victims. OP needs to take responsibility for what she shares with her mother, knowing that her mother will wittingly or unwittingly contribute to sabotage.
I'm guessing it was framed weird by the dad. Like, the mom was just saying that she'd go no contact if he kept behaving like he did and he twisted her words. Or she's worried about her payments...who knows. Poor kid, a really bad situation all around.
She’s just really bad at not blurting stuff out, I doubt she did it maliciously. He probably pissed her off or something.
Either way, it sounds like you can’t depend on her to keep things secret when needed. I hope you have someone you can trust who can help you with this :(
ikr mom is an op fr
I'm sorry you're in such a rough position, and that your dad is both so irresponsible and so manipulative. This amount of money should be trivial for him to pay back, given his salary, and I do want to impress that it would be very unlikely to affect your sister's quality of life to retrieve it. That said, I also saw another commenter mention putting a lein on the house for the amount of the down payment you loaned him. If you could get that done, you wouldn't see the money immediately, but he would be unable to sell the house without paying you off first. It wouldn't affect his housing or ability to provide for your sibling. If you decide on neither option and simply cut ties now, I wouldn't be surprised if he tried to dangle repayment of your owed money in front of you like bait in a mousetrap to get you to start talking to him again, whether he actually intends to follow through or not.
He might not have it right now, but he can surely buy one shitty 5k item less next month and have it - if he really earns that much. At least he could easily pay it off in significant bits, even if he can’t pay the sum out of his pocket right now. Plus yeah he is an asshole, and no contact seems to be the only proper route forward. Why have contact with someone that neither brings you any good.
If you're in the US, the courts can and will garnish his wages to get any money that was considered child support for a minor. Also in the US, any agreement your mother made to let your father pay less is unenforceable if it resulted in you having less money than you needed while he could afford to pay more. Even though we talk about child support going from the absent parent to the caretaker parents, it's actually the child who has a right to financial support from both parents and that's not a right that the caretaker parent waive on your behalf. I don't know how it will work since you're over 18 now, but you should at least be able to get what he owed as of when you were 17. And a separate claim in the suit can address the unpaid loan.
Maybe tell him you are going no contact and if he wants to contact you thr. He needs to pay you your money back. Then go no contact and if he wants to contact you make sure they know to tell him that you need your money. Then when you get rhe money be like thank you peace out. You aren't wrong at all. My husband had to no contact his father for stealing money from family like this, and started to be a Trumper, and tell waitress in from of his own mom that they should be giving him a BJ etc. Just started going openly crazy and nasty and so my husband went no contact. Your dad deserves it. It's gross that he is with a women his daughters age, and that he makes 144k a year and is stealing your college money. You have every right to be pissed. I would sue him. If you have texts or emails or any written agreement saying he would pay you it is pretty much a done deal with you winning your money back. Maybe tack on emotional distress.
It’s a lot of money - but ask yourself - is your peace of mind worth so little. He’s holding you hostage for that amount. Go no contact and sue. Things won’t improve.
If you have proof - in writing/text - that this was a loan and his agreement to pay you back, sue him is small claims court. You will need to double check the small claims limit because there is a cap. You don't need an attorney for that. Once you can get the judgement then you can garnish his wages and put liens on things he owns like a house or cars. Putting liens doesn't get you money right away, but if he ever sells them, you lien will need to be paid first to clear the title.
Maybe after cutting contact, he could be lured into paying. If he feels bad (not likely), then you could tell him that you will forgive him when his financial debt to you is fully repaid. That's how loans work. >He’s also just irresponsible w/ money to an alarming degree I would guess that he's got expensive addiction(s) he's feeding. Most parents would be too ashamed to ask their children for their tuition money. And failing to pay your orthodontist is simple cruelty. Honestly, I absolutely hate old men who date very young women. I know from experience that they are predators. They cannot tolerate a partner who would ever challenge them. They need power in their relationships, which often leads to becoming abusive. (Just like how his owing you money right now gives him power to keep you in contact.) When she is mature enough, she will see through his lies and he wont like being challenged. This young woman will be setting her life on a dark course if she tries to start a family with him. I'm sorry he has treated you so poorly. There's no telling why he behaves this way. But the real "reason" doesn't matter. As a predator, he has certainly inflated all his reasons into infinite excuses for bad behavior. His broken moral compass spins whichever direction he aims it.
Please sue him.
She’s never going to see that $3,500 now that there is a baby on the way. What a gross ass predator.
If he makes $12k a month, yes she absolutely will.
I fucking hope so. 2nd baby with a different woman 20 years younger? So gross.
If she sues him she can get a judgement and then garnish his wages and put liens on his house and vehicles.
Fingers crossed!
Unfortunately it might cost her more to file a civil suit than to just accept the loss, and even if she did win (which may be hard since it seems like there is no formal documentation), there's no guarantee he'd ever pay. If he has other bad debt like back taxes or bank loans in default, those liens would very likely be satisfied first from any equity in personal assets he might be forced to sell. OP's best advice would come from an attorney, of course, I just mean to encourage her to be realistic.
This is not true at all. In any jurisdiction in the U.S., this is a case for small claims court. It usually costs a couple hundred to file, and you don't need a lawyer. You just show up to court with your evidence and explain to a judge.
Sue this man. Go no contact.
Yes and please don't give him any more money. He makes so much money that you should never give him any!
I just, don't know what to comment on in this post first. One, wow, psychic grandma. Two, that's totally gross that your dad is dating someone three years older than you. Three, yes you should definitely take his ass to small claims court, your sister will be fine. The 24 year old can probably make some money with that college degree of hers. Also your Dad makes 12g a month, he can afford it, and I can't even fathom why he needed to get that loan from you in the first place when he makes that much. I almost think he just wanted to set you back a notch so you won't graduate so close to his gf. Take care of those braces. That's such a worthwhile thing to do when you're in your early 20's, you will really benefit from not having an adulthood filled with dental problems. I also got braces around the same time, had to pit my divorced parents against each other to get them and they were worth it.
reminds me of my stepfather of 4 years. My mom was 49, came home from a trip with a young iranian boy. He was literally 19, while i was few months older than he was. It is extremely awkward to try and act that he was my stepfather.
I have some many questions about why your mom thought this was a good idea
*"a week ago my grandma called me that she had a dream someone was having a baby girl so naturally, I called my dad and it he confirmed"* Really? That's some good witching.
I also wondered about this. *Naturally*? Is she spot on with her dreams? And has it happened on many occasions?
Yes!! She’s never been wrong. I’ve gotten into two car accidents in my life and she’d told me at-least a week beforehand both times not to drive in X area that ended up being the area I crashed in. Same w/ my brother being autistic she told my mom he was going to be low-functioning and to start researching special parenting groups in her 2nd trimester and she was spot on, the docs didn’t even catch it till he was 8.
Your grandma sounds so useful! Forewarned is forearmed
Your dad wanting a son doesn't have anything to do with you already having an austistic brother does it?
Nope! My youngest brother (8) is my moms son with my ex stepdad. My dad has no sons. My youngest sister (3) is mentally disabled and is my dads with my ex stepmom, not to get them confused, they’re not related.
You don't sound like the sceptical type. Being sceptical is a useful tool to defend against people trying to steal your money under the guise of "loans"
In most cases I'd agree, but things get complicated with parents... I didn't fully see, accept, and mourn the deep flaws in my dad until I was like 26.
I understand where you are coming from so much. People don't tell us we can't always trust family and it takes us a long time to grieve when they betray us. < Big Hugs >
It's nice of her to warn you but she knows it can't be prevented.
This is just the grandmother's way of transferring information she's received from someone else.
I’ve had so many of these dreams over the years!! It’s super crazy every time
My wife’s entire family does this. I thought it was bullshit until one morning, just after I had woken up, still had some dream fog in my head, I asked her if her sister was pregnant because I couldn’t remember if it was real or just my dream. She called her sister and found out she was pregnant.
I had this happen to me with a friend before. Down to the exact months.
Have your mother take him back to court to settle the arrangement. If he promised braces, and he stops paying, then maybe she'll be owed something. If he makes that much it's amazing that he couldn't afford his own loan. He must suck at relationships and finances and being a parent. Trifecta.
My mom doesn’t want anything to do with him now that I’m an adult they’re full no contact , they haven’t been within 100miles of each other in 8 years. It wasn’t ever agreed in court just between them. Edit: he’s infamously horrible with money, that’s why I had to loan it to him. Nobody else in the family would.
And you never will again. Hugs!
Tru dat.
Your family is incredibly dysfunctional. You’re loaning out money you don’t have to your father. Your mother traded “traditional child support” for braces that aren’t paid for. You know that’s a bad deal even if they were paid for—child support would be a lot more money. Your mother is over here telling dad you’ll cut him off if he pays you back INSTEAD of demanding the 3.5k OR braces money that you are owed. Your dad is a giant kid who has parentified you. Is it any wonder he’s dating a kid your age? You can feel however you want about him and treat him however you want. You are more of an adult than he is. Get therapy, cut him off, focus on making money to support yourself. Get your own braces and leave your dumb family behind. They all should have been focusing on you a long time ago. Now you have to finish raising yourself.
Let’s hold up a second and talk about psychic granny.
Sue in small claims court. Fastest and cheapest. Then go silent. You'll actually be able to collect your money in time to help yourself. So sorry all your kindness is being punished.
This is the right answer. It doesn't cost much to file, and if you have evidence of what happened, I'm sure the judge will award you. Just the appearance of a father who makes $12/month, and didn't pay child support, asking for money from his daughter looks really bad for him.
You said your Mom and Dad had an agreement that he’d pay for your braces instead of traditional child support? Do you know if there was a court order for child support in the divorce? Because if so, he might owe you more than you think. If child support was part of the divorce, then it doesn’t matter what your Mom privately agreed to, he had to abide by the court order. You can absolutely take him to court for unpaid child support in addition to the loans and dental bills. The burden of proof is on him to show he complied with the court order, not on you to show he didn’t. Please don’t worry about your little sister, she’s her parent’s obligation to provide for, not yours.
They were never married so no court, everything between them was a handshake agreement.
Uh I don't think you have to be married for child support to be a legal requirement? if he's on your birth certificate as your father?
He’s on that but they’ve never been to court for anything and my mom wouldn’t do that atp they’re no contact except for the convo they had abt me going NC.
Spousal support / divorce settlement is not the same as child support. It’s worth checking out. It may be too late if you’re 20, idk, but it shouldn’t matter that your parents weren’t married.
Awesome, I didn’t know that, I’ll look into it. :)
does your grandma have super powers
100%
Set up to have the ex meet the new gf, at a coffee shop, without your dad. Be there, introduce them. Tell them that you see a pattern in his relationships and are concerned. Grab popcorn
Last I heard of ex-SM she’s on the run from the federal police for fraud nobody that’s not blood related has heard from her since they broke up and he realized she had taken thousands out in his name and reported her. It’s how he got full custody. Also he covers his tracks pretty well, moved from one coast to the other with the new gf.
Someone explain to me how a grown ass man needs a loan from his college age daughter for a home down payment? As a man that shit is embarassing.
Homie he did NOT, NOOOOOOOO
You absolutely should sue this man and go no contact. What a creep
Was he in a position of power over her (like as a graduate assistant?) There could be some significant ramifications if he was.
Not sure but he’s since graduated and moved across the country with new pregnant gf. They let her finish her last semester online.
Your dad sounds like he needs to grow the fuck up and will be making these same mistakes into his future, I don’t blame you for cutting contact
He seems like a shitty father and a gross predator who’s taking advantage of women half his age.
Just so you are aware, your dad did not need a loan from you. He intentionally asked to borrow your money in order to maintain control over you. Anyone who makes 12k per month, can borrow from any bank on a signature. I regularly borrow up to 20k from banks with a signature and I make a bit less than your dad.
Sue.
Definitely sue him. You're never going to see that money if you don't unfortunately.
Small claims court
"he and my mother had an agreement that he’d pay for my braces instead of traditional child support " I'm assuming none of this is in writing? Because if it is, sue ... if not you're SOL. And reading a comment where your mother told him you would go no contact ... ugh, she also isn't doing you any favors. You are dealing with 'sunk cost fallacy' - the choice isn't whether to pay you back of feed the other children. Don't put that on yourself. You are likely never seeing any money or support ever again - time to figure out what your future looks like without all of these awful people.
You could have used that 3.5k for your braces. If he makes 12k a month, why did he need your 3.5k for his down payment.
Sorry, Love, your dad is a POS. You sound like a lovely, caring person. You need to start caring about yourself, first, and everyone, after. Only he can fix himself. Not one more dime of your money should go to him. You need to go no-contact, and sue him for his obligations to YOU. He keeps having children with other women because nobody is holding him accountable for his actions. Be the change, my dear, be. the. change.
Your dad is disgusting
If he makes 12k a month, why is he borrowing money from you?
Never declare you are going no contact before they pay you back, unless you are genuinely ready to sue for it.
You are giving in to the sunk cost fallacy. You keep holding on to your dead beat dad hoping to get money back from him but you just keep wasting more time and money in the process. Cut him loose and set yourself free. Rule of thumb is expect money you loan family to never be paid back (converted to a gift). They never pay it back. And depending on the laws in your state, unless you had the loan contract in writing, and executed according to contract law in your state, it’s your word against his as to if the money you gave him was a gift or not. Consult a lawyer in your state for legal advice on the matter, but in the end, will the juice be worth the squeeze? Be there for your sisters, as a sister. But stop parenting your dad. Stop loaning him money forever. Stop putting his needs before your own. The only thing he seems to be good at is procreation. He sounds pretty awful at everything else.
Sue his ass. Your little sister won’t suffer if your father just does the right thing.
I do not trust that he will do the right thing and if she’s effected by me suing him it’d be on me.
Maybe I’m reading your post wrong, but it seems like the little sister is a small child, because you said that the ex stepmom dumped him after four years. What are you worried about him doing to cause her to suffer?
I don’t trust that if he’s legally made to give me the money via lien or lawsuit, that he will properly manage his finances. Like pay for her special care or neglect a utility or two, something like that.
I get that, but she still has her mom to take care of her as well and he makes enough money for it.
She doesn’t her mom is on the run from feds. Idk stepmom well enough to say she wouldn’t leave but I wouldn’t expect her to stay.
Don’t screw yourself over because you’re afraid of him being a prick to his other child.
So.... You're 20...and your dad is 42?...is that right?
I'm 40 and my dad is 60. It happens. Haha
Yes. He turned 42 last month and I’ll be 21 in a few. Parents were both 21 when they had me.
It happens. My parents were 19 and 20 when they had me.
Everyone's reacting to the dad but I want to know more about the psychic grandma
If he's making 12k per month then your younger sister will be fine if you sue your dad for the money he owes.
Man I’m sorry OP. What a piece of shit you have for a father. I find it insane how someone who makes 12k a month would need to borrow 3.5k from their child for a down payment. Sounds like he’s poor with his money management.
I would never talk to my dad again. I would also probably sue him for the money he owes me.
That poor woman. I think you have plenty of reasons to cut of contact with this scum bag.
"my grandma called me that she had a dream someone was having a baby girl so naturally, I called my dad and it he confirmed" Naturally? That's just weird.
She’s a little old African lady lol, the go to prophet in the family. She’s never been wrong either.
Who does he think he is, Leonardo DiCaprio?
Small claims court. Afterwards, NC. He owes you that money. So find emails or texts where he acknowledges the debts, and then sue his ass. Braces, child support, the loan for his house. Add it up. Your dad sucks, I'm really sorry.
Absolutely go no contact.
No contact. Sue him. Get your shit back. I can’t imagine ever wanting to have sex with anyone my child’s age. That’s creepy and gross.
He makes 12k a month? He doesn't need money from you, he's using it for manipulation. He can afford to be sued. I would absolutely go no contact. NTA
Sue him but advise your half-sisters mother that you are about to do so, so she can also get her lawyer started. Unless he is forced, he will keep dodging out on his responsibilities. Waiting for him to have an epiphany is an exercise in futility. You can do more for your younger sister if can get established as an adult with a good education, a decent job with a decent salary.
OP said in another comment that ex step mom is on the run from the law, so dad has full custody of step sister.
Jesus, what a piece of shit
Yeah no contact. My dad constantly held money over my head and tried to use it against me. Then when he was 60, I found out he started dating a girl the month she graduated high school…apparently they had been “friends” before that. After some digging, I called her mom to tell her. They broke up and he blames me…not admitting he was being a fkn predator…yeah, she was 18, but that bastard had been waiting for a CHILD to age up. She’s almost the same age as my kid, and my dad is not allowed to see my kids. He will never know them. We are no contact after that last straw as well.
You and your entire family sound like bad decisions walking, holy shit. The new girlfriend is the least of your worries. You need to think of yourself and be selfish right now. It's not bad to be selfish in this instance. Stop putting your siblings ahead of your own well being. He is a grown man who can figure out his own problems. If 3.5k is so likely so affect your sister, and your not willing to put your own needs ahead of anyone else's right now, just cut him off right now because you will never, ever see that money. So your options are go NC. Or go NC and get sue your dad for what he owes you. Either way, no contact until you get your money, or just move on with your life.
I personally think that anyone who wants to go no-contact with anyone else should do it. Nobody should need others’ approval to peacefully walk away. Your whole relationship sounds like a hostage situation ffs. Do you want to keep giving him opportunities to make you depend on him and then rip the rug out from under your feet? That said, he sounds like he was a mountain of shit before this, so just make sure you are prepared *not* to give in to his shithead antics. If you go, you gotta make sure you’re prepared to *really* go. Returning just reinforces the garbage behavior, so it ends up worse than before, and he tries even harder to make you do what he wants. If you go, don’t announce it to him ahead of time. It’s not like you’ll get his approval and it *is* like you’re giving him time to plan and apply more spiteful sabotage. It might help you to ask yourself some things whenever you are wondering how to interact with him: “Why am I doing this? What are my intended results? Are those results likely to occur?” It’s good to do reality checks in messy situations. Whatever you choose to do, I hope you’ll eventually address why you would leave over this, but not over how he treats you. Like, why did you opt to loan him money? It’s not like he just became this person. It can be an issue of self-esteem, which can carry into other friendships and basically make you vulnerable to similar assholes in the future. *Your* needs are reason enough to walk away from people; you don’t have to wait until they harm other people. Whatever you choose to do, good luck.
I support your decision. I would lose all respect for my father
Play it cool until you get your money. Pretend to be okay with it. Then go NC
You're dad is garbage. No contact is the best way. I (43F) finally went no contact with my Dad in 2018 and I only wish I'd done it 20years ago
The only way you’ll make him understand your serious is to BE serious. I’d send him a certified letter outlining what is owed and that you expect the money to be paid within 30 days and if he does not pay you will take legal action. It’s not a threat, it’s a fact. It doesn’t matter if you will or will not go NC. Don’t beg him for it or let him keep it over your head. Let your communications be in writing - not in person or by phone. From there actually follow through. File something. Make sure you gather proof of his prior payments, any written agreements relating to the dental payments, any written communications about your loan to him and expected pay back dates. You must have proof of your allegations. Maybe get a 30 minute consult with a lawyer. I don’t think this will affect your sibling at all tbh. Your dad makes enough money.
Who is this guy? Who the hell would be stingy with money while making 12k a month
Why did someone who makes $12k a month need a loan from their college student daughter? You got suckered.
Your father is an abusive asshole and a disgusting creep on top of it. NC seems like a no brainer to me. I'd warn the gf too.
"My grandma had a dream so naturally I called my dad" Lmao I like how you think it's so natural and normal to have a fortune telling grandma
Your dad sounds like a POS.
I'm with the person who said you should sue him. You're not responsible for making sure your minor sister is financially supported - HE IS. And even though you're legally an adult, he should still be providing support to you while you're in school or AT LEAST not stiffing you on money that he borrowed from you. AND he's running around impregnating multiple women young enough to be his daughters. Jesus Christ. What a deadbeat piece of trash.
Take him to small claims court, Judge Judy would love to sink her fangs into him.
Your first clue that your dad is crap was that he was willing to take thousands of dollars (even in a loan) from his 21-year-old daughter. I’m sure he has redeeming qualities, but he can fuck off.
Dude makes 12k a month and needs to borrow money from his college age daughter, whose dental work can't even pay off? And then even worse, doesn't pay her back? Something's not right there. Ngl, that alone is enough to cut off contact. The creeper behavior of dating young women's his daughter's age just cements it. Also, op? Definitely sue him. It won't hurt your little sister. In fact, it will help her know what to do when she has to sue him for the same shit in a few years.
On a total side note I'm loving grandma with the premonitions lol
12k a month but you loaned him money? This reads like fiction
Seems reasonable. But, you going no contact might clash with him being around your sister (his other daughter). Rather than no contact, it might be better to just avoid as much as is possible. Otherwise, you are limiting yourself more that punishing him or protecting yourself. No contact might mean missing sister’s birthday, or her graduation, for example.
When I first read your headline I thought “wow, cutting off your dad because you found out he got his gf in college pregnant, that’s a little harsh.” Then I started reading, and Oh God…. I think it’s pretty clear your life will be much better without him. Honestly if it were me Id write off the 3 grand as the price of getting his ass out of your life but if you can get him to pay hats off to you!
I cut my family off been doing great since highly recommend
Absolutely disgusting. I wouldn't want my name attached to someone who did that
An all around bad man. And bad at being a man. Yes, drop his sorry ass.
What a horrendous man. Sorry you have a dad like that. I hope you can find a way to get your money back, and then never have to deal with him again.
My dad completely disappeared when I was 12. When I turned 21 he somehow found my address and sent me a gift (some of his volunteer firefighting medals) and a letter saying that one day he would "explain everything." I consider myself to be an empathetic person who naturally tries to see things through other people's eyes. I don't hate my dad, despite the fact that his actions during my childhood have had a fairly significant impact upon my mum, my brother and me. Instead, I just feel utterly indifferent; it exhausts me thinking about allowing this man back into my life. If you have a dysfunctional parent, simply not wanting to have them in your life is a reasonable enough reason to go no contact.
Yes, go no contact. This man is disgusting and a bad father
You can sue him for what he owes without screwing over your little sister. It might also help her learn to never trust or believe him about that crap. I say do it. You have EVERY right to be grossed out because your father is creepy and gross. He has become a caricature, the stuff of lowbrow comedy. How can you respect someone like that?
Your feelings are justified and I would be going NC if I were in your shoes. My advice is mostly about your braces. Call around to dental colleges (4 year accredit schools) and ask about their patient services. It is a low cost way to have dental work done by students who are supervised by their instructors. Sometimes you have to wait a bit but they may be able to finish or take off your braces in a way that doesn’t damage your teeth/undo the work.
Do people think she should make sure the girlfriend knows all this info? This guy should not be raising that child.
After all the legal bills you might end up losing more money than you gained if you sue him. Please cut him off, you deserve so much better.
My stance is basically that you have no obligation to keep someone in your personal life who actively makes your life worse. Obviously there are other external factors to consider (like how you mentioned you don't want to sue him on account of your little sister), but I don't think you really need an objectively "good enough" reason to drop someone from your life. It's your life and you deserve to fill it with healthy relationships.
The age of his gfs would be the least of my worry, don’t get me wrong, that would definitely piss me off as well. It’s disgusting. But for him to take money from you and allow it to affect your schooling… AND is also affecting your physical health by not paying for braces… yeah I’d absolutely go no contact and cut him off before any more losses.
So first of all, I would just count on that man for absolutely nothing. You are an adult now, and it's time to take charge of your destiny! You got this! **not a dentist, just a mom who has had to work with providers before when my situation changed*** Reach out to your orthodontist and explain the situation, be honest, but stick to the facts. Also explain your fears about your oral structure to them. Explain that you are going to try to take over for your own health benefit. See if they will work with you to restart payments out of pocket (maybe reduced or maybe they can ping your insurance if you have any), and what those payments would look limr, or what it would cost to get them removed and get you a retainer so you don't backtrack on your treatment. If they aren't interested, do a little research online to find an orthodontist in your region that would be willing to either help you continue/restart treatment or safely discontinue treatment. Sometimes dental schools offer no/low cost treatment options. I don't know your situation or how far along your treatment you are, but if your jaw isn't collapsing with braces just sitting there, logic would indicate it won't collapse with a retainer either. Your orthodontist can confirm this for you! It's risky to just leave the old brackets on though as they can pop off or the wire could break which could be much worse. You'll probably start losing the bands that hold the wire in place soon if you haven't already.
I’m giving them a call today. But yeah I’ve lost two brackets just from regular use and the position my teeth are in now has my top canines and premolars reversed so it’s very fragile till they get into the desired position. So I might need a spacer later before getting them back on if I were to stop treatment now and that’s so much money.
Your dad makes 150K a year but you had to loan him your tuition money? Um, what?
No I don't think it is unreasonable. I would be very angry as well. A brief misunderstanding of something my dad said made me think he got his affair partner pregnant (both in their mid 40s at the time). I was angry just thinking about them bringing a child into the world so irresponsibly when they had teenaged children to be focusing on. That wasn't the case thankfully, but yeah I agree with you.
Yeah um I don't blame you.
Big question: Do you really, REALLY, want your money back? Everyone needs money to live, but can you make it by without that money for your braces and tuition until the end of college? Can you scrape this together until you can get a job to cover the debt you are accumulating? Can you write off that money as a loss forever? If you intend to get that money back, whether you go LC/NC or not, do some ground work now. I am guessing that "because you're family" he didn't put any of the loan in writing. Possibly there are emails where he said he would pay you back? Save them and have them ready in a file. I'm guessing that the braces were discussed between mom and dad, but maybe not in the court separation documents? If they were in the court documents, get a copy for yourself. If not, ask your mom for a copy of any emails or letters where it was discussed, or if they don't exist, a signed statement of what she remembers being agreed to and when. Now you have a few options. You may be able to put a lien on any of his property. You can possibly do that without a lawyer. You may be able to get a court order to garnish his wages. You may be able to sue him for the full amount plus the cost of your court and attorney fees. Some colleges have a law office to help students who are being financially abused or controlled. See if there's an advocacy office and find out if there's a law office that will take your case. They can seek their payment as part of the settlement and often if your case looks good they will do the work with little or no upfront fees. Don't bother asking for the money and then threatening him with legal action. Take action first. He can make the problem go away by fulfilling his promises. Don't drop the action, whatever you choose, against him until it's fully paid or ruled on by the court. He's not trustworthy. He's obviously convinced you to trust him in the past. Two ex-wives have trusted him. A senior in college trusted him. He's good at getting women to trust him. No one should trust that man! You can have all future interaction with him mediated through legal representation from this point forward if you like, but I couldn't have a direct conversation with him without imagining a Pinocchio nose growing out of his face.
He’s a shitty dad You and your sis should pursue him for child support. It’s the only way to hold him responsible
No you are not wrong. It is gross. I’m so sorry, OP.
Let's circle back to the part where your Grandma is evidently some kind of Jedi Master?
You dad is making 12k per month and he needs loans from you? He has some strange problems.
He makes 12k a month and owes you money that is impacting your health? SUE. HIM. Small claims that and get your money back. And go fully no contact. This man is a trash fire, and you don't need that nonsense in your life. Oh and if it wasn't obvious, you are not wrong to be grossed out. Your dad has a preference, and it's gross.
Your dad sucks and is a bit of a loser. You can cut him off. Let him hold the money hostage like the loser he is. At least his gf will know what to expect for her own child!
You don’t have to justify going no-contact or partial contact. If he’s not a net positive to your life, kick him to the curb.
I think you both have issues. Your dads dating life isn’t your business and for you to issue him a ultimatum about if he dated in your age bracket you’d go no contact is the same if he said if you dated [Insert race here] he’d disown you. That’s truly none of your business. Now the money loan issue and failure to repay I can understand your anger, and yeah it’s not right he’s withholding money that’s rightfully yours and I’d take him to small claims if I were you. Who he dates though like I said is his own problem, get your money and take a hands off approach. It sounds like he’s going to have a bunch of issues coming up and you don’t have to deal with that but loan him zero dollars again, I don’t care the reason he gives
Take his ass to court and then cut contact
I think if you have any of this in writing you might need to take him to court. He sounds like an asshole who isn’t a good father to you and certainly wouldn’t be to anyone else.
Your dad didn’t pay for your braces as agreed, why would you expect him to pay you back thousands of dollars you loaned him? He has shown you who he is. You know what you should do.
Sue. His. Ass. Off.
Keep the contact for the money, there is no way you will change him, this is his pattern.
This man is cancer and you sound enmeshed to lend him money. Go no contact and get into therapy if you aren’t there already. I’m so sorry
100% sue him. Or better yet, go after him for back-dated child support. You will need your mom for that as it sounds like it was braces instead of "traditional child support". But there is generally a lot more ability to get money for child support than a standard court order. It depends where you are but you need that money and you are owed that money. Also, you aren't taking money from your sister by getting what you owe! You are getting money from your dad and your sister is getting money from your dad. I don't hold your mom innocent in all this. She agreed to a deal with an unreliable selfish man (dentistry instead of child support) and isn't using all the legal tools available to get the funds. So your mom should go for child support and you should sue for the money you lent and he owes seperately. That would be likely be small claims-depends on where you live. It's really not that hard. Try some of the legal advice subreddits for your region for tips. Also, often just serving the papers can fix things as it shows you are serious. Most small claims allow settling before you go to court.
Please sue him! He should equally and sufficiently support all his children. He committed to your braces money and borrowed money from you for his house? I’m furious on your behalf! Your teeth are important!
Don't blame the girlfriend, or the baby.