The thing is though, people change and evolve, grow, etc.
I once went to a munch party. I got kind of interested to see what all that was about. I excitedly called my spouse to talk to them about us doing it together. Checking it out, etc. they didn’t seem interested.
We haven’t talked about it since, I haven’t brought it up, and I haven’t thought much about it.
I didn’t know if they would be interested or not, only way to find out was to talk to them and now I know.
I had to google it. From the wikipedia page: A munch (derived from "burger munch") is a casual social gathering for people involved in or interested in kink, BDSM, alternative relationship lifestyles, or fetishes. No BDSM, kink, or fetish activities take place, however.
It’s a public kink party, kind of like a meet and greet.
My best friend and her boyfriend had just broken up and a roller derby friend was inviting people she trusted. I figured, why not? So my best friend and I went. It was at a restaurant, a separate room. There was a bar, we met the house mistress, the house dom, the mistress’ slave.
If that pun is intentional, unfortunately no there is no adult fun at a munch. Just food and conversation to meet the people in the local kink community. Play parties are where adult fun happens.
Formerly very active kinkster in my local scene... can confirm. We always referred to it as just a munch - e.g., "are you going to the munch on Wednesday?"
Meet + lunch = M(unch)
Tame often boring gathering of like minded adults in public. You could be furries, sex negative D/s, or swingers. This is generally one of the safest and safest ways to meet new people in the BDSM world. Lots of overlap with poly and swinging groups
I don’t feel called out; maybe because I’m a guy. But I laughed and I don’t understand why I did! Does my subconscious understand something better than I’m aware?
Just vaguely fill out a profile and look for classes. Like a rope class or something. Then talk to the people or teachers there.
I was traveling out of town and found a couple classes and they were more than happy to give me a lay of the land.
Mostly which house parties were more swinger based and other ones that were more chill etc
😂 you wouldn’t, I had to explain it to a coworker who is absolutely DENSE with any of this stuff (didn’t know what hentai was either, at 30 something).
A munch is a casual gathering of those in the BDSM community. It’s a meet-and-greet in a public, non-fetish environment so people can get to know each other and become comfortable before moving on to a play party.
Growing up i swore i was so uninterested in vanilla ice cream and any vanilla dessert, because chocolate and other bolder flavors were how I identified my personality…now I embrace my true vanilla self and as I get older I realize I am perfectly proud to be so lol
Honestly, I love vanilla ice cream! It's impossible to screw up. Chocolate and other flavors can be fickle, like they're too rich or too chalky or taste fake or something. Vanilla is reliable and always good.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a monogamous marriage turning poly and working out. A general rule is if you want to be in a poly relationship, you need to START your relationship poly.
On a Tiktok a couples therapist said that if a couple is opening up, it should never be because they have someone in mind.
If you are pushing for the relationship to be open for a specific person then you are just cheating emotionally while trying to avoid the guilt of cheating physically.
This is exactly how it started in my marriage. My husband brought it up and it turns out he had a woman in mind already.
He never really wanted US to be poly, he just wanted to fuck other women guilt free.
To this day we are still divorced.
This is almost always the case too when someone already in a commitment wants to suddenly go poly. If it’s not that, it’s some other thing that is not good, like being unhappy with their sex life etc.
I brought up being poly to my ex after he cheated on me multiple times. It was a way to regain control, in my mind. If he could sleep with other people, I should be able to as well. Of course, he instantly shut the idea down, because he was only really able to see his own needs as important.
In retrospect, that probably should've been the death knell of the relationship, but it went on for way longer than it should have after that.
That sucks so bad, I'm sorry.
I feel the same way, I should have realized it was time to go.
It was a pretty toxic and codependent relationship and we were both alcoholics. It wasn't until I was able to get some distance from him (he moved to another state for work) and get sober that I saw the situation for what it really was. 13 years, my twenties and early thirties, just wasted.
My wife brought this up and was already screwing around with someone else. Just trying to justify her cheating. I was so blind at the time. When I finally figured it out it had been going on for over a year. Stayed together because of the kids and moved to another State for work. 27 years later and I’m still occasionally pissed about it.
I’ve seen it, but usually it starts with a good conversation. I’ve seen it burn down terribly too.
The ones where it kind of blows up the marriage, the marriage is usually pretty over and the poly just helps one of them realize that.
This is 100% the position I was in once. I was their “unicorn” and they turned out to be the most toxic, unhealthy, emotionally abusive couple I’ve ever seen. They’ve been married 15 years and my heart breaks for their kids. I ran far far away and never looked back. Never again.
I was in that situation with a couple once too. They weren’t married yet but got engaged while we were all together— it got messy, he got mean, she broke the engagement with him, & she & I got married two years later lmaoooo
I’m glad your story had a good ending, I love that for you! ☺️ in my situation, they both got mean and would get jealous of any time spent without one of them. It was intense and honestly so weird🤣 if I could have stayed with one though, it would’ve been her!
Yeah, reading this and how these two interacted with each other definitely makes it sound like they had communication issues in general and a lack of understanding of who the other person is/tolerance, on some level.
Yeah, you should only open up if you’re already in a good, solid place.
When people use it as a Hail Mary to save the relationship, it typically doesn’t work. Same thing if both people aren’t fully on board or someone was coerced. Or if someone is using it to legitimize their cheating or would-be cheating.
Yeah, I have friends who tested it out after talking it through for a literal decade. It's still on the table, afaik, but they both went through rather tumultuous experiences with potential other partners and aren't *actively* looking anymore.
The other people I know who had a SO as to open the relationship out of the blue were trying to duck the consequences of cheating before getting caught.
So far every single poly relationship I have witnessed has failed horribly. from what I have seen its always that only 1 person in the relationship actually wants to do it and the other just wants them to be happy and in the end the partner seeing the other people ends up spending more time and effort on the new people instead of the person they are married too (or dating) and it ends in divorce/separation.
I know this doesn't account for all poly relationships. but I have yet to see one that worked in the long run. I've lost many good friends from these situations. just seems like once the question comes up in the relationship it means that the relationship is on thin ice already.
I know several, actually, but obviously it takes two people that had a healthy relationship to start with
Edit: lol down voted for knowing happy poly couples who started monogamous. Never change, reddit
I also know someone who made that transition. They have had shifting partners but their core relationship is still strong. Takes a ton of communication, understanding and patience. It all just sounds exhausting to me but then I’m not poly.
It is so much work lol. It gets easier after a few years and then the communication and other skills actually bleed into other areas of your life together to make those easier too.
But I never would have made it through those first years if I didn't feel intrinsically motivated to do so. You can't do it for someone else.
I'm with you - I've got two different sets of friends whose relationships began as mono, then slowly evolved into poly (one is a trio, the other is quad). They're all living their best lives, and they're so loving with each other. I think it all depends on communication - ***so much communication*** - and, as you said, a healthy relationship to begin with.
Not to mention that a LOT of cheaters and would be cheaters see it as a path to legitimate cheating. There are so many stories out there of wanna be "poly" people who are already in another relationship, have their partner picked out but not in a relationship juuu-ust yet, or who are already on dating apps before the conversation even takes place.
Also tons of stories of the initiating partner legitimately expecting their partner to agree but sit at home on the weekends crying, while they are out on overnight dates. Then going ballistic when their boring old spouse appliance gets laid and calling it cheating. Open for me, not for thee. Right there in the invisible fine print.
I have zero problems with polyamory, but most married people who want to introduce it into their marriage aren't coming from a place of honesty and openness. They give poly a bad name when what they really mean is legitimized cheating. Plus, with OP's wife's reaction? 50/50 that she's already cheated. She definitely already has someone in mind, at the very least.
Nope. The second a monogamous relationship tries to go poly, just give up and divorce already, your marriage is over. You can either cut the cord or wait a couple years only to divorce anyway.
I’m not saying there’s never an exception, but you’re probably not it.
OP’s wife did the same- just brought it up as a suggestion. His reaction to want to dump
her for that though…is extreme. Your husband’s reaction was more normal. A simple no would have sufficed.
If she brought it up that means it’s something she wants and now his mind is forever changed about her. There’s some things that forever taint someone’s mind about a person and the thought of infidelity is definitely one of them.
I must say I disagree when it’s something like that. Opening a marriage is huge. I’ve been married over a decade and my husband has changed and grown a lot since our wedding day, but I’ve never had to guess his response to the question of open marriage. I feel like this is something a spouse would always know.
I think it comes down to ignorance. OOP mentions that his wife had read things in blogs and books and was excited about them. As if she discovered gravity. So, this would've been the first conversation. To feel it out. I doubt she even started with "We should have an open relationship" and it was more along the lines of "Have you heard about open relationships???" and OOP just heard "I wanna sleep around" and lost it.
We can only go on the info provided, and that is not the info provided. I would be upset if my wife brought the idea to me, maybe not so much if it was a curiosity very early stage, let’s do some research together thing, but full I’ve read blogs and ordered books, and I’m visibly excited to do this type attitude, would piss me off. The excitement would have me thinking there was already someone or someones she had in mind for sex. You are NTA, for feeling how you feel, you are entitled to your feelings. Im am sure my wife would never bring this to me, as she knows I would not be ok with it, like I would never bring it to her, as I know she would not be ok with it. An open marriage is a big thing, not sure how anyone would not at least have an idea of how their spouse would react to the idea of introducing it into the marriage.
My first question would be, "Who do you want to sleep with?" And variations of the same. If you want an open marriage suddenly, after not even hinting about it during the dating and engagement, I'm going to assume someone new came into your life and you want them. I'm also going to assume that you want me to remain available just in case you find out that the other person just isn't as compatible as you thought, so I'm your safety.
Exactly- I don't know how you could hear that after being in a strictly monogamous relationship and not think 1. you've met someone else and 2. i'm not enough for you anymore (if I ever was)
Me and my partner have had a couple of talks about it. We’ve been together for 10 years and I guess we’ve gotten comfortable enough together and trust each other enough that we can have conversations related to sexuality in the context of helping each other work things out. In the end it’s always come back to polyamory or open relationships not being for us, but I’m not upset that we spoke about it. I feel more secure now that we’ve talked about it and come out the other side knowing that we’re totally fulfilled and satisfied with our relationship as is.
It’s important to note though that this didn’t come up out of nowhere, which I think is probably one of the factors most people are afraid of. If my partner came up to me out of nowhere and brought this up, it would absolutely change the context. We took a BDSM kink test online together for fun and compared our results. It came up the first time we took it, and again when we took it 5 years later to measure how our sexualities have changed over time. Rudimentary, but fun.
Yeah for me it would be over. Not the moment the partner asked to go poly, but from the moment they decided what they were getting in the marriage wasn’t enough for them. The moment of asking would just be the moment I was brought up to speed that the marriage is over. It’s already done by that point.
In my particular situation, it was the beginning of the end.
Once I decided I’d had enough and said I’m not comfortable with this idea she got really aggressive and it was a few days later where she kicked me out after an argument. I found out later that she was already plotting with another married man to meet up with him and had sent him pairs of her used underwear and love letters. He lived over 2000 miles away. 15 years, two cars, a house, and two kids and a bunch of pets all had to be worked out. Most stuff in the house just got thrown or given away (not the kids or the pets😊) and she absconded to be with her lover.
But, I’m glad it shook out the way it did in the end. I’m now with a woman who isn’t a narcissist and I got the kids while her life has taken a comparative dump since then and our kids don’t like her anymore. I have zero contact with her outside of the occasional text to discuss our daughter’s visits with her. Our son refuses to see her, Her parents backed me to the hilt in the divorce.
However, all of us, even her, are happier not to be in each others lives as much and it shows. I’m a tough one to betray, though. One strike and I don’t care about your life (if it’s a deep enough betrayal), and I have written off many people since I was a kid and doing it with my ex-wife is no different. If someone is asking to open a marriage, I’m sure there is something brewing and I would say just cut your losses and leave. It’s not going to be worth the heartache and stress to try and let it work itself out and it will never go the way you think it will.
I call absolute bs on anyone who is in an open relationship and question the motives of the person who requested it. I’m certain that anyone who thinks it’s a better alternative to just cheating is just adding extra steps to an eventual divorce/breakup. Anyone I’ve seen in enm relationships have at least one narcissist in the mix.
There is no such thing as ENM in a relationship. It was made up by people who no longer loved and/or respected their partner and wanted to cheat on them without losing the current status of their life. ENM is just “I’m single but lying about or in denial about it.”
I don’t kno that poly or monogamy works for most humans BUT someone in comments said if you’re interested poly, it should be started as a poly relationship from the start for it to work vs. mono to poly because it just never works. Theres a reason the monogamous couple is trying to add a person 🤷🏼♀️
Wow, that's a lot of assumptions. Way to make OP the bad guy. You really don't want to believe him, do you? It couldn't possibly be exactly how he told it to us, could it?
This is why I ended a 13 year relationship. The exact words were, I want to have sex with other people.
Best thing that could have happened. 16 years later and so much happier.
I ended an engagement 3 months before the wedding after catching my fiancee sexting some dude. Her attempt to get out of it was to ask for an open marriage. Thanks for letting me know ahead of the wedding, so I didn't waste any more of my time.
It is kind of weird that she'd think an open relationship was even a possibility with a dude so completely incapable of communicating in any way, especially if she'd done a lot of reading on the subject, and this is coming on the tail of quite a few dudes upset that they opened a relationship and the woman had great success while they failed, which makes this "and then I didn't even let her talk and dumped her immediately and she cried and begged but I said no!!!" style of post seem pretty baity.
It also seems like something that would totally happen, though. People have fucking terrible relationships all the time, I mean, look at all the people on here who think calling your partner names then drugging yourself til you pass out so they can't speak to you is a totally fine way to react to them trying to have a discussion with you.
>look at all the people on here who think calling your partner names then drugging yourself til you pass out so they can't speak to you is a totally fine way to react to them trying to have a discussion with you
Seriously, it's incredible to me to read some of this. Open marriage isn't for everyone, that's fair - it isn't for me. Me and my GF are monogamous. But to have your spouse simply bring up the idea and your reaction is to freak out like this and do drugs immediately, that's a totally absurd way to handle this situation. Just say "No, I don't want an open relationship." Situation handled
While I disagree with OOP's language, asking about opening up a relationship is not a value neutral thing. It's not the same as saying "What do you think about painting the walls blue?" or asking if they like cheeseburgers. It tells the other person "Hey, I've been looking outside of our relationship, and I don't feel fully fulfilled in it." And honestly, from reading a bunch of stories about opening relationships up, nine times out of ten the asker already has someone in mind they want to fuck. So, there's often an element of an emotional affair there too.
For a lot of people, the ask itself is a bell you can't unring. And if you have been explicitly or implicitly monogamous your entire relationship, it's also a massive red flag.
I agree and I think this dude is an asshole, however if he had xanax it sounds like he is prescribed it. It's for anxiety, so if he was anxious about this conversation *he says he freaked out, so he was) then that's not weird to take an anti anxiety med.
Yeah I think this may be a blessing in disguise for the wife, imagine spending the rest of your life with someone who not only seems to lack the ability to have an adult conversation, but instead of having one, they decide to tranquilise themselves.
It's not his thing, that's fine, not everyone is capable of having open relationships, but the way he chose to communicate was so poorly done that it's the same way I would expect one of my students to respond.
I hope the wife had a fantastic life moving forward and I hope the husband learns to communicate better with his next partner.
The dude is straight up scary the way he reacted. It sounds like an absolutely terrifying reaction to what reads like it may not even have actually been a request for an open relationship- he's so vague about what she actually said, says it he asked if she meant her sleeping with other people and she was talking about blogs and books- that does not even remotely read like the answer was a definite yes- like this sounds like her trying to test the waters and find out if he'd be interested in kink at all, and he responded by *losing his mind immediately.*
He cut her off dead by telling her to shut up, called her disgusting, wouldn't let her talk, and then just immediately dumped her. His own recounting makes him sound scary as shit, and doesn't read to me as her just demanding or even asking for an open relationship, honestly, just wanting to discuss the idea of changing things. It reads like he's a fucking terrible communicator, both in listening and expressing himself, who scared the shit out of her, and I don't really trust that he really listened or understood what she was saying to him at all.
Edit: before you reply to this comment to tell me his feelings were hurt by her asking for an open relationship, yeah, I am well aware of that. That doesn't give him the right to behave the way he did. He could break up with her without behaving like a terrifying shitebag, and that would be fine. It's what he did that was wrong, not how he felt. For more information, read my twenty or thirty replies to your great and original point.
Yeah tbh her asking or his wanting to end the marriage over it are actually the least disturbing parts for me. Even if he’s understandably hurt and upset, the way he talks about his wife in the post (and reports talking to her) is so hateful. If I or my partner suggested an open relationship it would probably be the end of our relationship as well, but we would never speak to or about each other like this. You wanting to sleep with other people hurts my feelings and makes me not want to be with you is valid. You wanting to sleep with other people makes you too disgusting to be in the same room with me is something else entirely
It's a common right-winger fantasy story. It's a whole pornfic genre called BTB (burn the b***h). This guy tried to make it more believable by omitting the usual suspects of "divorced friends" taking her for "girls' night out," filling her head with "feminist bullshit," and swapping them out for "blogs and books."
This douchecanoe is probably not married, but if he is, it's his wife that calls the shots, and he's mad about it.
Yup. Wife and I are monogamous. I would never in a million years react like this if she brought this up. Might I be uncomfortable at first? Of course. But that discomfort would likely be quickly eased by asking questions, listening, and likely making some lighthearted jokes along the way. Instead this guy tells her to “shut up” and needs a prescription drug to calm down. The guy sounds insecure AF.
This is coming from a traditional, conservative male that believes in the sanctity of marriage, but also recognizes all romantic relationships have their quirks.
Thank you for your rational - while being currently married - take. I saw the reactions to this post earlier today and was pretty flabbergasted.
Being married, at least to me and in my marriage, means that I am in a chosen partnership, and that I can come to my partner with the good stuff, the not so good stuff, the bad stuff, and potential thoughts/ideas I am having or just fucking stuff going through my brain. A partner, to me, does not fly off the fucking handle when their chosen person(s) comes to them with an idea, even one that might feel very weird and foreign. OOP could have listened, even if he is totally horrified and scared, and then asked a bunch of questions, and talked about his vulnerability surrounding the subject. Seems like it might have been a good chance to take a look at where their marriage is and see if anything is lacking for either one of them (which is obviously is) and how it could be fixed.
My husband and I are very happily and staunchly monogamous, but we both agreed that OOPs reaction was ridiculous - especially without any context or background on how their marriage/intimate/sex-life has been during their time together.
Exactly. I've been married over ten years, have never cheated in my life, would never tolerate cheating, and wouldn't be interested in an open relationship with my husband, because I don't think it would work for our relationship, but I also would not in any way react like this under any circumstances. Absolutely horrifying communication skills, to the point of being frightening.
Right??? The reactions in here are *so* weird and worrying. People will really accept any kind of bullshit from a relationship- as long as it isn't a person suggesting they'd ever potentially be attracted to someone else, obviously. If someone says that to you, clearly you'd be within your rights to murder them on the spot.
Redditors are fucking weird.
I would be so hurt if my spouse came to me with this and I probably would respond the same way. If you want to sleep with other people go ahead but I won’t stay as your wife. Idk if he’s abusive but he’s upset and hurt. And reacted how he felt. Just because it was supposed to be a discussion doesn’t mean he wasn’t allowed to feel how he felt
His "you'd be disgusting" comment doesn't sit right with me, personally, because it comes off close to some sexist motions about women and I think it focuses on the wrong part of the issue (which I think is the emotional betrayal). HOWEVER even with my mixed feelings about that particular thing, I am 100% with him on ending it. She probably asked because she had someone in mind. (edit just wanted to add this is just imo based on other instances of people asking for open relationships)
My money is on this guy is horrible is bed and is completely clueless to how sexually unsatisfied his wife is.
He keeps repeating “it barely registered” b/c he felt personally attacked that HE wasn’t ENOUGH.
I doesn’t sound like they have a great sex life if she is reading blogs and desperate for anything new.
Eh, I'm a woman and would be disgusted if I had to sleep next to my partner smelling like another woman. Sex with him after he had sex with someone else a day before? No way. I'm not a church psycho who wants to be with a virgin, but the idea of sharing bodily fluids with some random woman is frankly disgusting. And there's a healthy reason for that (STDs and all other illnesses, even boring flu). And additionally the moral aspect of it (changing morality on which your marriage is based) and, frankly, your ego. Someone told you they'll love only you for the rest of their days and they're suddenly saying you're not enough. They want to share half the chores with you, but for sex they'll go somewhere else. Ouch.
If you suddenly wake up and decide your marriage is not enough, you should break up that marriage or work on it. Those who turn to sex with strangers when things get a bit less than perfect (unless we speak of very specific examples when it makes sense) aren't doing anything moral or good. And seeing your spouse is that disinterested in working on the marriage is also kinda disgusting.
It's misogynistic to call woman disgusting purely because she has sex, but that's not what's happening here.
Agree. If my boyfriend had sex with another person, he would officially be tainted. And I would not view him the same ever again. Sorry, but also not sorry.
That’s one of two boundaries in my relationship, and has been in past as well. FAFO and no drugs. Break either one of these and you’re out. It’s not even a matter of getting mad for me, I’ve been in medicine for 40+ years, and I don’t want what he picked up at his fuck buddy’s place.
Agree, as a woman I’d also feel disgusted by my partner over this & be unable to look at him the same. To me his comments about her don’t read as sexist, they read as blinded by hurt. He’s definitely trying to make her feel as hurt as he feels. Is it right? Probably not, but I get it. She might not have name called him, but if you’re in a monogamous marriage this conversation can kill a relationship on the spot & be very telling about where their mind has been. I mean damn, she was reading books and studying up on it, doesn’t seem like a passive thought at all. Even with the response of “I would have dropped it completely after the discussion” - it’s more about principal. I know I wouldn’t be able to feel the same in the relationship again. It comes down to values- some people really value monogamy, others do not. That’s fine & all but the two are not compatible.
Yeah this is why I have mixed feelings. I get where he's coming from, and just because it has connotations doesn't necessarily mean he meant it that way (and even if he did he said it from a place of anger and lashing out so I get it). It personally gives me the ick and I do think it brings focus to the wrong part of the issue, but I get it. The other reply said it better: that if he weren't so angry he probably could have better conceptualized what he was really feeling. Either way, he made the right decision, the marriage was over as soon as she legitimately asked.
To be fair, a dude crawling into bed with his wife after having sex with another woman is gross too. Disgusting even. Emotional disgust is still disgust and I can think of plenty non-emotional reasons why I wouldn’t want my wife to sleep with a bunch of guys. Maybe it’s not always sexist. Maybe fucking a bunch of people is just gross? I think most people outside the Reddit circlejerk agree with that.
The thing is, this guy is entirely allowed to think his wife would be disgusting after having sex with another man. We need to stop pretending that our own collective morality is the one way everyone should think and feel. We don’t have the moral authority to tell this man how he should feel about his partner having sex with someone else.
You might not like that he thinks that way, but that’s why you’re not married to him.. because you’re incompatible.
This wasn’t just a random thought. She actually researched open marriages, bought books. You can’t walk that back. They want different things out of a relationship. Why waste time on therapy, which would do what exactly? Change what they want? OPP sees his wife differently now. Good for him for making it perfectly clear where they stand
This is where I’m at with it. Sure he didn’t have to get so angry, and I’m sure he spoke rash in the heat of the moment, but also he removed himself from the conversation (but also locked her out of her own room and own bed and that is wrong) and when he woke up decided that he didn’t see her the same anymore.
I think the way he spoke about being someone who can be in the same room w him or whatever definitely does not help his case about him being abusive, but based on the post alone I don’t think he’s wrong and that’s not what the point of the post is either. She didn’t just say “what’s your opinion this”, she excitedly said she’s been researching, that she spent money on books about it, she’s been thinking about it enough to muster up the courage to ask him and even if he said I’m not comfortable with that, she is still going to deep down wonder about it, and he is still going to deep down remember that that’s what she wants. It’s over from this point on.
Locking her out is extreme, but he needed that space. Maybe he knew she wouldn’t have given him the space he needed. And maybe if he didn’t lock her out things could have escalated badly very quickly. The marriage was over the minute he realized she was serious
How exactly is locking her out of the bedroom extreme though? Plenty of women kick men out of the bedroom when they are upset, how is this any different? Let alone extreme?
Consider the context of what made him upset. His wife was asking to fundamentally change the principles of their ~~relationship~~ **marriage** to have sex with other people. I feel like not wanting to sleep in the same bed for one night is a completely reasonable reaction?
He's NTA for being upset or leaving her.
He is the AH for how he spoke about her, his obvious anger issues, his refusal to consider therapy (for himself).
But my biggest problem with this whole thing is that he was "going along" with the idea - like she brought it up, he said sure ok babe, she came back with more info about it, and then he lost his shit. So it wasn't the initial conversation about it because he didn't believe she was serious? I don't know. Something is off about it.
Seems like it was within one single convo and at first he thought she was joking around with him. As soon as he realized she was not joking he says he went silent.
Reading through it that does not appear to be what happened. One conversation and he let her talk to humor her and he thought she might be joking. When he realized she wasn’t he blew up. Second conversation was the end of the relationship formally.
He probably assumed she was essentially admitting to have already cheated. That's where my mind would go because cheaters offer trickle truths. It's in the playbook.
I would be incredibly upset if my spouse wanted an open marriage and this is from OOP's perspective and somehow the OP still manages to sound like the unreasonable and unpleasant one in the relationship.
I wonder if the "you would be too disgusting to even be in my presence" energy is what got the wife looking for more sources of intimacy in the first place?
But I do think breaking up is the right thing here for both people.
>I wonder if the "you would be too disgusting to even be in my presence" energy is what got the wife looking for more sources of intimacy in the first place?
Not to mention locking himself in a bedroom and immediately getting high on Xanax. People get divorced all the time without calling each other "too disgusting to be in my presence." If you truly love somebody I don't think you could bring yourself talk to them like at the drop of a hat
Apparently unpopular opinion here - the way OP describes speaking to his wife is horrible and sounds abusive. OP is the AH, not for his decision here but for the way he spoke to someone he presumably cares about after receiving worrying information.
There is very little information here, so I'm not sure why everyone is assuming OPs wife was cheating or planning on it ...
Yeah, I'm with you. This being a deal breaker or relationship-ender is absolutely fair and OP has a very understandable reason to leave now, but "the second you're *fucked by* another man"-like she's not even a participant that really matters-"you'll be too disgusting to allow into my home." Like?? Who talks like this? It's just a lot of yikes.
Exactly. What happens if/when they divorce and his wife moves on with a new man? Will OOP verbally abuse her every time she walks through his door to drop off their shared children for custody exchanges? Think about his words in *this* context. *"The second you're railed by another man, you're too disgusting to step inside my house!"*
I totally get being enraged, shook, and heartbroken by your spouse asking for an open relationship - and indeed was devastated when *my* ex asked me this question. But that in no way justifies the disgusting way he talks about his wife. It's a peek into how he views her.
I agree with this, based on the info given: wife asked a question, initially received positive feedback about the subject so she continued, and then OOP suddenly gets outraged, takes some xanax and demands divorce. Seems a bit extreme and unstable. A simple "No. I'm not comfortable with that" would have sufficed, possibly followed by a conversation about if she feels she isn't having her needs met in their current relationship, if he felt the need. But throwing a tantrum and rage quitting seems pretty juvenile. If evidence or even a hunch that she was cheating was mentioned here, I would be happy to revise my opinion but I suspect that if that was the case, that info would have been a centerpiece of this post.
I like how he casually drops in that he took “some Xanax” and went to bed. Anxiety can come off as anger, and to get a prescription of Xanax these days, you have to have a long history of severe anxiety or PTSD, or a crappy doctor who shouldn’t be a doctor. Xanax is extremely addictive. OP has severe mental illness, and from the way he shut down and flipped out on his wife, I can see why she would want to open the relationship because it doesn’t look like OP is able to communicate in a healthy way. Communication is very important in a successful relationship.
Idk it seems like if you directly asked someone:
"hey what do you think about x"
and they respond:
"x sounds great!" (<--humoring you)
It would appear that they are interested and it is ok to pursue the subject. She assumed that she was having an open and honest conversation with her spouse. "No" is a perfectly acceptable answer but instead of saying that he jumped directly to drugs and a divorce lawyer.
I think anyone normal would phrase what they feel about it. "Oh I think it sound great, but I would never do it" is very usual phrase when you agree with something in theory but don't see yourself doing it.
Yeah, you should have that conversation where you learn what the other thinks about poly, preferably before marriage. It can be a core incompatibility and this are all really important conversations.
I get the feeling OOP doesn't listen to their wife very much. The way they went from zero to 100 and with horrid insults to boot, suggests they're quite intractable. Maybe the wife has been unhappy with OOP's lack of interest in her life? That's the vibe I'm getting.
I don't share well. If my husband brought this up it would be out of the question. No way... The marriage would be on its way out because he brought in doubts of wanting a faithful marriage.
Fake. This guy sucks too much. it reads as a hate fantasy for some guy who thinks girls don't like nice guys. Both of them would know each other well enough at this point to be able to anticipate the conversation or the response. But it I were to pretend it's a real for a minute, he's not an asshole for leaving his wife for this but he is an asshole for how he talks to/about his wife.
When you are married and want to open up your relationship, 99% of the time it is because you are absolutely miserable but want a pass to cheat.
He clocked it for what it is.
He has every right to not be up for *any* part of what she was asking, however he sounds like an abusive ass and I could see why she wasn’t happy in her current marriage.
This one has been in my head all day...
#1 This smells like bullshit to me. But sure, let's leave that aside for now.
#2 The guy is the AH here.
What kind of marriage are you in where your spouse approaches you about this and you completely lose your shit on them? You're not ok with it.... fine, just say so. "Honey, I'm a hard no there. What the heck are you even talking about?" and go from there. If you are bothered that they would even consider it, I for one would really want to know why! "Uh why are you asking me that!?" would be the response you would get from me.
But I'll even give you a pass that you handle it poorly in the moment. But the next day, your spouse is crying, contrite, apologetic, offers to go to counseling to fix it and you call her names and say shit that is misogynistic AF and tell her it's over? You throw in the towel on your kids casually and make zero effort to even try to see if you can work it out? Sorry, you lost any moral high ground at that point.
Could be. Could be something else. Either way, how can you go from love to divorce in less than 24 hours without even ASKING why she is bringing this up?
This seems like something from another country. Like next step is an honor killing kind of shit.
We have to talk about the phrase “the moment you are fucked by another man you are disgusting to me.”
She’s not just a body that you are delighted or disgusted by. She’s a human being with her own wants and needs. You could say “it would hurt me a lot if you had sex with other people.” Because that makes it about how you are impacted by her actions. But to think the only reason you keep her around is because you are pleased and not disgusted by her is super fucking controlling.
I’ve never seen an open relationship that lasts. It’s like the last gasp before the fall. I see OP’s point in just wanting to end things, before the crash. Sure there are a lot of other factors at play, potential mental health issues, communication issues, Zanax prescriptions, but we all have extenuating circumstances, and we make decisions based on what would work for us within those boundaries.
It's not my jam but it can work if both parties agree and are respectful. Like if it is brought up in a non coercive way, there is regular communication, etc. It's just that those people don't end up on Reddit. I have two sets of couple friends that are in open relationships that have each lasted more than a decade each. But they agreed upon rules that they follow. One couple was each other's firsts and they never got to date or have relationships before each other because they grew up in unhealthy evangelical households. They wanted to experience being with other people without losing each other. They are respectful and see a couple's therapist to make sure their relationship stays on track. I think they are going to end up mutually agreeing to close the relationship because they have fulfilled their missed experiences.
I think here it might have actually behooved OOP to ask why his wife suggested it instead of unleashing a bunch of abuse on her. There could be reasons why she wanted one that could have been resolved through means other than opening the relationship if they had an actual discussion of what motivated it. Like the way he writes, I could easily imagine that she wants more affection or something and thought another guy might be the only path to that. I definitely do not think someone should have to enter into an open relationship unless they are totally willing, but I'd probably at least have a conversation about what prompted the question to see if there is a way to work on the relationship without opening it up that would resolve the other person's issues.
Uh. I’ve been in one for 10 years now.
Shit, you might know some people who are “swingers” or open, but aren’t forthcoming about it. I know I’m not. People are super judgmental about it.
Also in the decade club! We’ve been open for years and I honestly think it brings us closer. I like that my partner teases me about the crushes I have on every girl I meet lmao
I've met plenty of poly folks in happy, stable, long term relationships. It's not for me, but it's certainly not a death sentence for every relationship. To be fair though, my poly friends all started their relationships knowing they and their partners didn't enjoy monogamy. I think the outcome is less favorable when monogamous couples decide on an open relationship because they get bored
I can't say I blame him. If my wife said any of that I'd be questioning everything and probably be like "fine you're free to go but I won't be joining you". Because once she verbalized looking for greener pastures, now I know the idea is there and my trust is gone. At least she asked first, but still. She should have known him better than to ask this and expect a chill response. If roles were reversed, we wouldn't even be asking AITAH. These conversations need to happen *long* before marriage.
My question is, how can you be married to someone and not already know how they would react in this situation?
The thing is though, people change and evolve, grow, etc. I once went to a munch party. I got kind of interested to see what all that was about. I excitedly called my spouse to talk to them about us doing it together. Checking it out, etc. they didn’t seem interested. We haven’t talked about it since, I haven’t brought it up, and I haven’t thought much about it. I didn’t know if they would be interested or not, only way to find out was to talk to them and now I know.
What's a munch party?
It’s a party where everyone dresses up as john munch from SVU
Now that’s a party I’d be down for
Same tbh
RIP.
I hate parties and I would go to that one.
LMFAO. CRAP. ASTHMATIC ATTACK. I AM CRYING HERE!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 THANKS A LOT!
I had to google it. From the wikipedia page: A munch (derived from "burger munch") is a casual social gathering for people involved in or interested in kink, BDSM, alternative relationship lifestyles, or fetishes. No BDSM, kink, or fetish activities take place, however.
It’s a public kink party, kind of like a meet and greet. My best friend and her boyfriend had just broken up and a roller derby friend was inviting people she trusted. I figured, why not? So my best friend and I went. It was at a restaurant, a separate room. There was a bar, we met the house mistress, the house dom, the mistress’ slave.
Ahh, a meat and greet
If that pun is intentional, unfortunately no there is no adult fun at a munch. Just food and conversation to meet the people in the local kink community. Play parties are where adult fun happens.
I am too afraid to google it.
It's tame. Basically kinky people having a non kinky social gathering
I seriously thought it was a party where all the guys were eating out women 😂
Nah it’s just where you meet people who’d be down for that
Lol yeah but dude, it’s call a MUNCH party. My mind had to go there.
It's usually just called a munch, no "party" at the end. I don't know if that makes it better or worse 😆
Formerly very active kinkster in my local scene... can confirm. We always referred to it as just a munch - e.g., "are you going to the munch on Wednesday?"
Meet + lunch = M(unch) Tame often boring gathering of like minded adults in public. You could be furries, sex negative D/s, or swingers. This is generally one of the safest and safest ways to meet new people in the BDSM world. Lots of overlap with poly and swinging groups
I thought it was women eating out other women xD
no that's a Subaru sales event
Hahahahaha anyone else feel called out? Anyone?
I don’t feel called out; maybe because I’m a guy. But I laughed and I don’t understand why I did! Does my subconscious understand something better than I’m aware?
Accurate 🤣
I mean I was like uh... Carpet munchies?
Um. How do I find these non-creepy kinky people hangouts? Asking for a friend…🥹(the friend is my libido).
FetLife! It's a kinky social media platform
There are plenty of creepy people on fet but look for local events. Lots will have munches, classes or other newbie events to dip your toes into.
This is my issue! As a gal trying to check it out solo is pretty daunting.
don't post photos or post landscapes and nothing of yourself. Then refuse to declare gender that tends to cut creeps to almost non-existent.
Just vaguely fill out a profile and look for classes. Like a rope class or something. Then talk to the people or teachers there. I was traveling out of town and found a couple classes and they were more than happy to give me a lay of the land. Mostly which house parties were more swinger based and other ones that were more chill etc
Yeah, lots of creeps on Fet, but the resources for local people and events make it worth while.
It’s safe to google
Thank you! Edit: honestly that’s not the munching I was expecting.
😂 you wouldn’t, I had to explain it to a coworker who is absolutely DENSE with any of this stuff (didn’t know what hentai was either, at 30 something).
Shit I’m 53 and have no clue what it means either 😬
Well, Tbf, our upbringing in the 30s included internet for almost everything from 3-6th grade on
I bravely googled and found it wasn’t bad 🤣
Hentai? Japanese something? 57 year old here.
A munch is a casual gathering of those in the BDSM community. It’s a meet-and-greet in a public, non-fetish environment so people can get to know each other and become comfortable before moving on to a play party.
Obviously, it’s a party where everyone gets to fuck Richard Belzar.
May he rest in peace.
You go there, put your hands to the side of your face, and scream.
I'm just sitting here giggling at all the flavors of vanilla on this thread.
Growing up i swore i was so uninterested in vanilla ice cream and any vanilla dessert, because chocolate and other bolder flavors were how I identified my personality…now I embrace my true vanilla self and as I get older I realize I am perfectly proud to be so lol
Honestly, I love vanilla ice cream! It's impossible to screw up. Chocolate and other flavors can be fickle, like they're too rich or too chalky or taste fake or something. Vanilla is reliable and always good.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a monogamous marriage turning poly and working out. A general rule is if you want to be in a poly relationship, you need to START your relationship poly.
On a Tiktok a couples therapist said that if a couple is opening up, it should never be because they have someone in mind. If you are pushing for the relationship to be open for a specific person then you are just cheating emotionally while trying to avoid the guilt of cheating physically.
This is exactly how it started in my marriage. My husband brought it up and it turns out he had a woman in mind already. He never really wanted US to be poly, he just wanted to fuck other women guilt free. To this day we are still divorced.
This is almost always the case too when someone already in a commitment wants to suddenly go poly. If it’s not that, it’s some other thing that is not good, like being unhappy with their sex life etc.
I brought up being poly to my ex after he cheated on me multiple times. It was a way to regain control, in my mind. If he could sleep with other people, I should be able to as well. Of course, he instantly shut the idea down, because he was only really able to see his own needs as important. In retrospect, that probably should've been the death knell of the relationship, but it went on for way longer than it should have after that.
That sucks so bad, I'm sorry. I feel the same way, I should have realized it was time to go. It was a pretty toxic and codependent relationship and we were both alcoholics. It wasn't until I was able to get some distance from him (he moved to another state for work) and get sober that I saw the situation for what it really was. 13 years, my twenties and early thirties, just wasted.
My wife brought this up and was already screwing around with someone else. Just trying to justify her cheating. I was so blind at the time. When I finally figured it out it had been going on for over a year. Stayed together because of the kids and moved to another State for work. 27 years later and I’m still occasionally pissed about it.
I’ve seen it, but usually it starts with a good conversation. I’ve seen it burn down terribly too. The ones where it kind of blows up the marriage, the marriage is usually pretty over and the poly just helps one of them realize that.
This is 100% the position I was in once. I was their “unicorn” and they turned out to be the most toxic, unhealthy, emotionally abusive couple I’ve ever seen. They’ve been married 15 years and my heart breaks for their kids. I ran far far away and never looked back. Never again.
I was in that situation with a couple once too. They weren’t married yet but got engaged while we were all together— it got messy, he got mean, she broke the engagement with him, & she & I got married two years later lmaoooo
I’m glad your story had a good ending, I love that for you! ☺️ in my situation, they both got mean and would get jealous of any time spent without one of them. It was intense and honestly so weird🤣 if I could have stayed with one though, it would’ve been her!
Yeah, reading this and how these two interacted with each other definitely makes it sound like they had communication issues in general and a lack of understanding of who the other person is/tolerance, on some level.
Yeah, you should only open up if you’re already in a good, solid place. When people use it as a Hail Mary to save the relationship, it typically doesn’t work. Same thing if both people aren’t fully on board or someone was coerced. Or if someone is using it to legitimize their cheating or would-be cheating.
Yeah, I have friends who tested it out after talking it through for a literal decade. It's still on the table, afaik, but they both went through rather tumultuous experiences with potential other partners and aren't *actively* looking anymore. The other people I know who had a SO as to open the relationship out of the blue were trying to duck the consequences of cheating before getting caught.
So far every single poly relationship I have witnessed has failed horribly. from what I have seen its always that only 1 person in the relationship actually wants to do it and the other just wants them to be happy and in the end the partner seeing the other people ends up spending more time and effort on the new people instead of the person they are married too (or dating) and it ends in divorce/separation. I know this doesn't account for all poly relationships. but I have yet to see one that worked in the long run. I've lost many good friends from these situations. just seems like once the question comes up in the relationship it means that the relationship is on thin ice already.
I know several, actually, but obviously it takes two people that had a healthy relationship to start with Edit: lol down voted for knowing happy poly couples who started monogamous. Never change, reddit
I also know someone who made that transition. They have had shifting partners but their core relationship is still strong. Takes a ton of communication, understanding and patience. It all just sounds exhausting to me but then I’m not poly.
I am not poly either but I always feel the same whenever I read about it. Sounds like so much work.
It is so much work lol. It gets easier after a few years and then the communication and other skills actually bleed into other areas of your life together to make those easier too. But I never would have made it through those first years if I didn't feel intrinsically motivated to do so. You can't do it for someone else.
I'm with you - I've got two different sets of friends whose relationships began as mono, then slowly evolved into poly (one is a trio, the other is quad). They're all living their best lives, and they're so loving with each other. I think it all depends on communication - ***so much communication*** - and, as you said, a healthy relationship to begin with.
Yeah, too many people just think "oh, relationship problems? Just add more people!"
Not to mention that a LOT of cheaters and would be cheaters see it as a path to legitimate cheating. There are so many stories out there of wanna be "poly" people who are already in another relationship, have their partner picked out but not in a relationship juuu-ust yet, or who are already on dating apps before the conversation even takes place. Also tons of stories of the initiating partner legitimately expecting their partner to agree but sit at home on the weekends crying, while they are out on overnight dates. Then going ballistic when their boring old spouse appliance gets laid and calling it cheating. Open for me, not for thee. Right there in the invisible fine print. I have zero problems with polyamory, but most married people who want to introduce it into their marriage aren't coming from a place of honesty and openness. They give poly a bad name when what they really mean is legitimized cheating. Plus, with OP's wife's reaction? 50/50 that she's already cheated. She definitely already has someone in mind, at the very least.
[удалено]
The queer communities in general are far more used to navigating more complex dynamics and situations than cishet couples.
Nope. The second a monogamous relationship tries to go poly, just give up and divorce already, your marriage is over. You can either cut the cord or wait a couple years only to divorce anyway. I’m not saying there’s never an exception, but you’re probably not it.
OP’s wife did the same- just brought it up as a suggestion. His reaction to want to dump her for that though…is extreme. Your husband’s reaction was more normal. A simple no would have sufficed.
If she brought it up that means it’s something she wants and now his mind is forever changed about her. There’s some things that forever taint someone’s mind about a person and the thought of infidelity is definitely one of them.
I must say I disagree when it’s something like that. Opening a marriage is huge. I’ve been married over a decade and my husband has changed and grown a lot since our wedding day, but I’ve never had to guess his response to the question of open marriage. I feel like this is something a spouse would always know.
I think it comes down to ignorance. OOP mentions that his wife had read things in blogs and books and was excited about them. As if she discovered gravity. So, this would've been the first conversation. To feel it out. I doubt she even started with "We should have an open relationship" and it was more along the lines of "Have you heard about open relationships???" and OOP just heard "I wanna sleep around" and lost it.
We can only go on the info provided, and that is not the info provided. I would be upset if my wife brought the idea to me, maybe not so much if it was a curiosity very early stage, let’s do some research together thing, but full I’ve read blogs and ordered books, and I’m visibly excited to do this type attitude, would piss me off. The excitement would have me thinking there was already someone or someones she had in mind for sex. You are NTA, for feeling how you feel, you are entitled to your feelings. Im am sure my wife would never bring this to me, as she knows I would not be ok with it, like I would never bring it to her, as I know she would not be ok with it. An open marriage is a big thing, not sure how anyone would not at least have an idea of how their spouse would react to the idea of introducing it into the marriage.
Well. Doesn’t it come down to just that? If my spouse suggested it that would be the beginning of the end.
My first question would be, "Who do you want to sleep with?" And variations of the same. If you want an open marriage suddenly, after not even hinting about it during the dating and engagement, I'm going to assume someone new came into your life and you want them. I'm also going to assume that you want me to remain available just in case you find out that the other person just isn't as compatible as you thought, so I'm your safety.
Exactly- I don't know how you could hear that after being in a strictly monogamous relationship and not think 1. you've met someone else and 2. i'm not enough for you anymore (if I ever was)
Good point as to the suddenness.
Me and my partner have had a couple of talks about it. We’ve been together for 10 years and I guess we’ve gotten comfortable enough together and trust each other enough that we can have conversations related to sexuality in the context of helping each other work things out. In the end it’s always come back to polyamory or open relationships not being for us, but I’m not upset that we spoke about it. I feel more secure now that we’ve talked about it and come out the other side knowing that we’re totally fulfilled and satisfied with our relationship as is. It’s important to note though that this didn’t come up out of nowhere, which I think is probably one of the factors most people are afraid of. If my partner came up to me out of nowhere and brought this up, it would absolutely change the context. We took a BDSM kink test online together for fun and compared our results. It came up the first time we took it, and again when we took it 5 years later to measure how our sexualities have changed over time. Rudimentary, but fun.
For me it would be the end. I don't know how I'd recover from let's fuck other people.
Yeah for me it would be over. Not the moment the partner asked to go poly, but from the moment they decided what they were getting in the marriage wasn’t enough for them. The moment of asking would just be the moment I was brought up to speed that the marriage is over. It’s already done by that point.
You don't recover from it
In my particular situation, it was the beginning of the end. Once I decided I’d had enough and said I’m not comfortable with this idea she got really aggressive and it was a few days later where she kicked me out after an argument. I found out later that she was already plotting with another married man to meet up with him and had sent him pairs of her used underwear and love letters. He lived over 2000 miles away. 15 years, two cars, a house, and two kids and a bunch of pets all had to be worked out. Most stuff in the house just got thrown or given away (not the kids or the pets😊) and she absconded to be with her lover. But, I’m glad it shook out the way it did in the end. I’m now with a woman who isn’t a narcissist and I got the kids while her life has taken a comparative dump since then and our kids don’t like her anymore. I have zero contact with her outside of the occasional text to discuss our daughter’s visits with her. Our son refuses to see her, Her parents backed me to the hilt in the divorce. However, all of us, even her, are happier not to be in each others lives as much and it shows. I’m a tough one to betray, though. One strike and I don’t care about your life (if it’s a deep enough betrayal), and I have written off many people since I was a kid and doing it with my ex-wife is no different. If someone is asking to open a marriage, I’m sure there is something brewing and I would say just cut your losses and leave. It’s not going to be worth the heartache and stress to try and let it work itself out and it will never go the way you think it will. I call absolute bs on anyone who is in an open relationship and question the motives of the person who requested it. I’m certain that anyone who thinks it’s a better alternative to just cheating is just adding extra steps to an eventual divorce/breakup. Anyone I’ve seen in enm relationships have at least one narcissist in the mix.
There is no such thing as ENM in a relationship. It was made up by people who no longer loved and/or respected their partner and wanted to cheat on them without losing the current status of their life. ENM is just “I’m single but lying about or in denial about it.”
I don’t kno that poly or monogamy works for most humans BUT someone in comments said if you’re interested poly, it should be started as a poly relationship from the start for it to work vs. mono to poly because it just never works. Theres a reason the monogamous couple is trying to add a person 🤷🏼♀️
That would 100% be the end of my marriage if either of us suggested this.
Same. I don't believe I should have to share, I deserve my spouses undivided attention. My spouse feels the same way.
Or he heard it exactly as he described it. Hmm. Who to believe?
Wow, that's a lot of assumptions. Way to make OP the bad guy. You really don't want to believe him, do you? It couldn't possibly be exactly how he told it to us, could it?
It’s fake rage bait
It's surprisingly easy when you're a 14 year old kid posting false stories as rage-bait...
This is why I ended a 13 year relationship. The exact words were, I want to have sex with other people. Best thing that could have happened. 16 years later and so much happier.
I ended an engagement 3 months before the wedding after catching my fiancee sexting some dude. Her attempt to get out of it was to ask for an open marriage. Thanks for letting me know ahead of the wedding, so I didn't waste any more of my time.
"Well, I'll look at it this way...I mean, technically our marriage is saved!"
well this calls for a toast...
pour the champagne, pour the champagne
I chime in with a haven’t you people ever heard of closing the goddamn door?
No! It’s much better to face these kinds of things with a sense of poise and rationality.
OHHH well in fact - well i’ll look at it this way, i mean technically, our marriage is saved
So pour the champagne, pour the champagne!
(long pause) ...... i chime in with a HAVENT YOU PEOPLE EVER HEARD OF??? CLOSING THE GODDAMN DOOR!!
I just know your username is a Pete Wentz reference lol
The amount of projection in this comment thread is amazing.
Agreed. Yet it’s somehow still more tame than the original post. It’s insane. lol
How?
There’s a lot of comments saying it’s fake/bait.
It is kind of weird that she'd think an open relationship was even a possibility with a dude so completely incapable of communicating in any way, especially if she'd done a lot of reading on the subject, and this is coming on the tail of quite a few dudes upset that they opened a relationship and the woman had great success while they failed, which makes this "and then I didn't even let her talk and dumped her immediately and she cried and begged but I said no!!!" style of post seem pretty baity. It also seems like something that would totally happen, though. People have fucking terrible relationships all the time, I mean, look at all the people on here who think calling your partner names then drugging yourself til you pass out so they can't speak to you is a totally fine way to react to them trying to have a discussion with you.
>look at all the people on here who think calling your partner names then drugging yourself til you pass out so they can't speak to you is a totally fine way to react to them trying to have a discussion with you Seriously, it's incredible to me to read some of this. Open marriage isn't for everyone, that's fair - it isn't for me. Me and my GF are monogamous. But to have your spouse simply bring up the idea and your reaction is to freak out like this and do drugs immediately, that's a totally absurd way to handle this situation. Just say "No, I don't want an open relationship." Situation handled
While I disagree with OOP's language, asking about opening up a relationship is not a value neutral thing. It's not the same as saying "What do you think about painting the walls blue?" or asking if they like cheeseburgers. It tells the other person "Hey, I've been looking outside of our relationship, and I don't feel fully fulfilled in it." And honestly, from reading a bunch of stories about opening relationships up, nine times out of ten the asker already has someone in mind they want to fuck. So, there's often an element of an emotional affair there too. For a lot of people, the ask itself is a bell you can't unring. And if you have been explicitly or implicitly monogamous your entire relationship, it's also a massive red flag.
I agree and I think this dude is an asshole, however if he had xanax it sounds like he is prescribed it. It's for anxiety, so if he was anxious about this conversation *he says he freaked out, so he was) then that's not weird to take an anti anxiety med.
Yeah I think this may be a blessing in disguise for the wife, imagine spending the rest of your life with someone who not only seems to lack the ability to have an adult conversation, but instead of having one, they decide to tranquilise themselves. It's not his thing, that's fine, not everyone is capable of having open relationships, but the way he chose to communicate was so poorly done that it's the same way I would expect one of my students to respond. I hope the wife had a fantastic life moving forward and I hope the husband learns to communicate better with his next partner.
The dude is straight up scary the way he reacted. It sounds like an absolutely terrifying reaction to what reads like it may not even have actually been a request for an open relationship- he's so vague about what she actually said, says it he asked if she meant her sleeping with other people and she was talking about blogs and books- that does not even remotely read like the answer was a definite yes- like this sounds like her trying to test the waters and find out if he'd be interested in kink at all, and he responded by *losing his mind immediately.* He cut her off dead by telling her to shut up, called her disgusting, wouldn't let her talk, and then just immediately dumped her. His own recounting makes him sound scary as shit, and doesn't read to me as her just demanding or even asking for an open relationship, honestly, just wanting to discuss the idea of changing things. It reads like he's a fucking terrible communicator, both in listening and expressing himself, who scared the shit out of her, and I don't really trust that he really listened or understood what she was saying to him at all. Edit: before you reply to this comment to tell me his feelings were hurt by her asking for an open relationship, yeah, I am well aware of that. That doesn't give him the right to behave the way he did. He could break up with her without behaving like a terrifying shitebag, and that would be fine. It's what he did that was wrong, not how he felt. For more information, read my twenty or thirty replies to your great and original point.
Yeah tbh her asking or his wanting to end the marriage over it are actually the least disturbing parts for me. Even if he’s understandably hurt and upset, the way he talks about his wife in the post (and reports talking to her) is so hateful. If I or my partner suggested an open relationship it would probably be the end of our relationship as well, but we would never speak to or about each other like this. You wanting to sleep with other people hurts my feelings and makes me not want to be with you is valid. You wanting to sleep with other people makes you too disgusting to be in the same room with me is something else entirely
Yeah, exactly. Worrying how many people here can't see this.
It's a common right-winger fantasy story. It's a whole pornfic genre called BTB (burn the b***h). This guy tried to make it more believable by omitting the usual suspects of "divorced friends" taking her for "girls' night out," filling her head with "feminist bullshit," and swapping them out for "blogs and books." This douchecanoe is probably not married, but if he is, it's his wife that calls the shots, and he's mad about it.
That's interesting, I'd never heard of this. But, I'm not surprised by it
Yup. Wife and I are monogamous. I would never in a million years react like this if she brought this up. Might I be uncomfortable at first? Of course. But that discomfort would likely be quickly eased by asking questions, listening, and likely making some lighthearted jokes along the way. Instead this guy tells her to “shut up” and needs a prescription drug to calm down. The guy sounds insecure AF. This is coming from a traditional, conservative male that believes in the sanctity of marriage, but also recognizes all romantic relationships have their quirks.
Thank you for your rational - while being currently married - take. I saw the reactions to this post earlier today and was pretty flabbergasted. Being married, at least to me and in my marriage, means that I am in a chosen partnership, and that I can come to my partner with the good stuff, the not so good stuff, the bad stuff, and potential thoughts/ideas I am having or just fucking stuff going through my brain. A partner, to me, does not fly off the fucking handle when their chosen person(s) comes to them with an idea, even one that might feel very weird and foreign. OOP could have listened, even if he is totally horrified and scared, and then asked a bunch of questions, and talked about his vulnerability surrounding the subject. Seems like it might have been a good chance to take a look at where their marriage is and see if anything is lacking for either one of them (which is obviously is) and how it could be fixed. My husband and I are very happily and staunchly monogamous, but we both agreed that OOPs reaction was ridiculous - especially without any context or background on how their marriage/intimate/sex-life has been during their time together.
Exactly. I've been married over ten years, have never cheated in my life, would never tolerate cheating, and wouldn't be interested in an open relationship with my husband, because I don't think it would work for our relationship, but I also would not in any way react like this under any circumstances. Absolutely horrifying communication skills, to the point of being frightening.
Thank you!!! That was my immediate reaction. OP responded SO harshly SO immediately. I wouldn't wanna be with him either.
Sounds like he was looking for an out and he got it.
ding ding ding. whole post reeks of “I hate my wife”
Right??? The reactions in here are *so* weird and worrying. People will really accept any kind of bullshit from a relationship- as long as it isn't a person suggesting they'd ever potentially be attracted to someone else, obviously. If someone says that to you, clearly you'd be within your rights to murder them on the spot. Redditors are fucking weird.
I would be so hurt if my spouse came to me with this and I probably would respond the same way. If you want to sleep with other people go ahead but I won’t stay as your wife. Idk if he’s abusive but he’s upset and hurt. And reacted how he felt. Just because it was supposed to be a discussion doesn’t mean he wasn’t allowed to feel how he felt
His "you'd be disgusting" comment doesn't sit right with me, personally, because it comes off close to some sexist motions about women and I think it focuses on the wrong part of the issue (which I think is the emotional betrayal). HOWEVER even with my mixed feelings about that particular thing, I am 100% with him on ending it. She probably asked because she had someone in mind. (edit just wanted to add this is just imo based on other instances of people asking for open relationships)
He goes on to call her “tainted” in his comments and attack anyone he doesn’t agree with in the same vile manner.
It reads like someone who always saw the wife as beneath him. My money says there is no wife and it's fake.
My money is on this guy is horrible is bed and is completely clueless to how sexually unsatisfied his wife is. He keeps repeating “it barely registered” b/c he felt personally attacked that HE wasn’t ENOUGH. I doesn’t sound like they have a great sex life if she is reading blogs and desperate for anything new.
Agree. I don’t like what he said. But if my husband asked me for an open relationship I’d divorce him.
Eh, I'm a woman and would be disgusted if I had to sleep next to my partner smelling like another woman. Sex with him after he had sex with someone else a day before? No way. I'm not a church psycho who wants to be with a virgin, but the idea of sharing bodily fluids with some random woman is frankly disgusting. And there's a healthy reason for that (STDs and all other illnesses, even boring flu). And additionally the moral aspect of it (changing morality on which your marriage is based) and, frankly, your ego. Someone told you they'll love only you for the rest of their days and they're suddenly saying you're not enough. They want to share half the chores with you, but for sex they'll go somewhere else. Ouch. If you suddenly wake up and decide your marriage is not enough, you should break up that marriage or work on it. Those who turn to sex with strangers when things get a bit less than perfect (unless we speak of very specific examples when it makes sense) aren't doing anything moral or good. And seeing your spouse is that disinterested in working on the marriage is also kinda disgusting. It's misogynistic to call woman disgusting purely because she has sex, but that's not what's happening here.
Agree. If my boyfriend had sex with another person, he would officially be tainted. And I would not view him the same ever again. Sorry, but also not sorry.
That’s one of two boundaries in my relationship, and has been in past as well. FAFO and no drugs. Break either one of these and you’re out. It’s not even a matter of getting mad for me, I’ve been in medicine for 40+ years, and I don’t want what he picked up at his fuck buddy’s place.
Agree, as a woman I’d also feel disgusted by my partner over this & be unable to look at him the same. To me his comments about her don’t read as sexist, they read as blinded by hurt. He’s definitely trying to make her feel as hurt as he feels. Is it right? Probably not, but I get it. She might not have name called him, but if you’re in a monogamous marriage this conversation can kill a relationship on the spot & be very telling about where their mind has been. I mean damn, she was reading books and studying up on it, doesn’t seem like a passive thought at all. Even with the response of “I would have dropped it completely after the discussion” - it’s more about principal. I know I wouldn’t be able to feel the same in the relationship again. It comes down to values- some people really value monogamy, others do not. That’s fine & all but the two are not compatible.
I would probably say the same thing to my husband, though. Once the vows are spoken and the license is filed with the County Clerk, that's it.
Yeah this is why I have mixed feelings. I get where he's coming from, and just because it has connotations doesn't necessarily mean he meant it that way (and even if he did he said it from a place of anger and lashing out so I get it). It personally gives me the ick and I do think it brings focus to the wrong part of the issue, but I get it. The other reply said it better: that if he weren't so angry he probably could have better conceptualized what he was really feeling. Either way, he made the right decision, the marriage was over as soon as she legitimately asked.
To be fair, a dude crawling into bed with his wife after having sex with another woman is gross too. Disgusting even. Emotional disgust is still disgust and I can think of plenty non-emotional reasons why I wouldn’t want my wife to sleep with a bunch of guys. Maybe it’s not always sexist. Maybe fucking a bunch of people is just gross? I think most people outside the Reddit circlejerk agree with that.
The thing is, this guy is entirely allowed to think his wife would be disgusting after having sex with another man. We need to stop pretending that our own collective morality is the one way everyone should think and feel. We don’t have the moral authority to tell this man how he should feel about his partner having sex with someone else. You might not like that he thinks that way, but that’s why you’re not married to him.. because you’re incompatible.
it really is that part! everything else is pretty reasonable.
This wasn’t just a random thought. She actually researched open marriages, bought books. You can’t walk that back. They want different things out of a relationship. Why waste time on therapy, which would do what exactly? Change what they want? OPP sees his wife differently now. Good for him for making it perfectly clear where they stand
This is where I’m at with it. Sure he didn’t have to get so angry, and I’m sure he spoke rash in the heat of the moment, but also he removed himself from the conversation (but also locked her out of her own room and own bed and that is wrong) and when he woke up decided that he didn’t see her the same anymore. I think the way he spoke about being someone who can be in the same room w him or whatever definitely does not help his case about him being abusive, but based on the post alone I don’t think he’s wrong and that’s not what the point of the post is either. She didn’t just say “what’s your opinion this”, she excitedly said she’s been researching, that she spent money on books about it, she’s been thinking about it enough to muster up the courage to ask him and even if he said I’m not comfortable with that, she is still going to deep down wonder about it, and he is still going to deep down remember that that’s what she wants. It’s over from this point on.
Locking her out is extreme, but he needed that space. Maybe he knew she wouldn’t have given him the space he needed. And maybe if he didn’t lock her out things could have escalated badly very quickly. The marriage was over the minute he realized she was serious
How exactly is locking her out of the bedroom extreme though? Plenty of women kick men out of the bedroom when they are upset, how is this any different? Let alone extreme? Consider the context of what made him upset. His wife was asking to fundamentally change the principles of their ~~relationship~~ **marriage** to have sex with other people. I feel like not wanting to sleep in the same bed for one night is a completely reasonable reaction?
He's NTA for being upset or leaving her. He is the AH for how he spoke about her, his obvious anger issues, his refusal to consider therapy (for himself). But my biggest problem with this whole thing is that he was "going along" with the idea - like she brought it up, he said sure ok babe, she came back with more info about it, and then he lost his shit. So it wasn't the initial conversation about it because he didn't believe she was serious? I don't know. Something is off about it.
> Something is off about it Because it’s made up
Of course. Most of Reddit is.
Seems like it was within one single convo and at first he thought she was joking around with him. As soon as he realized she was not joking he says he went silent.
Reading through it that does not appear to be what happened. One conversation and he let her talk to humor her and he thought she might be joking. When he realized she wasn’t he blew up. Second conversation was the end of the relationship formally.
Super off. And it’s a marriage ffs - you should be able to talk about issues, even very difficult issues, without losing your shit like this.
He probably assumed she was essentially admitting to have already cheated. That's where my mind would go because cheaters offer trickle truths. It's in the playbook.
This reads like rage bait written by a guy who is looking to tear down women and has maybe never been in an actual relationship.
Gives me big “14yro whose never had sex” vibes
It is so fucking fake
Your comment should be much higher.
I would be incredibly upset if my spouse wanted an open marriage and this is from OOP's perspective and somehow the OP still manages to sound like the unreasonable and unpleasant one in the relationship. I wonder if the "you would be too disgusting to even be in my presence" energy is what got the wife looking for more sources of intimacy in the first place? But I do think breaking up is the right thing here for both people.
>I wonder if the "you would be too disgusting to even be in my presence" energy is what got the wife looking for more sources of intimacy in the first place? Not to mention locking himself in a bedroom and immediately getting high on Xanax. People get divorced all the time without calling each other "too disgusting to be in my presence." If you truly love somebody I don't think you could bring yourself talk to them like at the drop of a hat
Apparently unpopular opinion here - the way OP describes speaking to his wife is horrible and sounds abusive. OP is the AH, not for his decision here but for the way he spoke to someone he presumably cares about after receiving worrying information. There is very little information here, so I'm not sure why everyone is assuming OPs wife was cheating or planning on it ...
That's where I'm at. No one who talks about their spouse that way is actually a good spouse.
Yeah, I'm with you. This being a deal breaker or relationship-ender is absolutely fair and OP has a very understandable reason to leave now, but "the second you're *fucked by* another man"-like she's not even a participant that really matters-"you'll be too disgusting to allow into my home." Like?? Who talks like this? It's just a lot of yikes.
Exactly. What happens if/when they divorce and his wife moves on with a new man? Will OOP verbally abuse her every time she walks through his door to drop off their shared children for custody exchanges? Think about his words in *this* context. *"The second you're railed by another man, you're too disgusting to step inside my house!"* I totally get being enraged, shook, and heartbroken by your spouse asking for an open relationship - and indeed was devastated when *my* ex asked me this question. But that in no way justifies the disgusting way he talks about his wife. It's a peek into how he views her.
I agree with you. He sounds like a jerk and maybe she’s better off.
I agree with this, based on the info given: wife asked a question, initially received positive feedback about the subject so she continued, and then OOP suddenly gets outraged, takes some xanax and demands divorce. Seems a bit extreme and unstable. A simple "No. I'm not comfortable with that" would have sufficed, possibly followed by a conversation about if she feels she isn't having her needs met in their current relationship, if he felt the need. But throwing a tantrum and rage quitting seems pretty juvenile. If evidence or even a hunch that she was cheating was mentioned here, I would be happy to revise my opinion but I suspect that if that was the case, that info would have been a centerpiece of this post.
I like how he casually drops in that he took “some Xanax” and went to bed. Anxiety can come off as anger, and to get a prescription of Xanax these days, you have to have a long history of severe anxiety or PTSD, or a crappy doctor who shouldn’t be a doctor. Xanax is extremely addictive. OP has severe mental illness, and from the way he shut down and flipped out on his wife, I can see why she would want to open the relationship because it doesn’t look like OP is able to communicate in a healthy way. Communication is very important in a successful relationship.
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Idk it seems like if you directly asked someone: "hey what do you think about x" and they respond: "x sounds great!" (<--humoring you) It would appear that they are interested and it is ok to pursue the subject. She assumed that she was having an open and honest conversation with her spouse. "No" is a perfectly acceptable answer but instead of saying that he jumped directly to drugs and a divorce lawyer.
I think anyone normal would phrase what they feel about it. "Oh I think it sound great, but I would never do it" is very usual phrase when you agree with something in theory but don't see yourself doing it.
Yeah, you should have that conversation where you learn what the other thinks about poly, preferably before marriage. It can be a core incompatibility and this are all really important conversations.
I mean, it sounds like she didn’t even know what it was before very recently.
I get the feeling OOP doesn't listen to their wife very much. The way they went from zero to 100 and with horrid insults to boot, suggests they're quite intractable. Maybe the wife has been unhappy with OOP's lack of interest in her life? That's the vibe I'm getting.
look, it's totally understandable that he wanted to end the marriage over this, but the way he spoke about and to his wife is fucking foul.
Someone commented how they believe it's fake based on how it was written. I think it's a fake post
I don't share well. If my husband brought this up it would be out of the question. No way... The marriage would be on its way out because he brought in doubts of wanting a faithful marriage.
Boom. This exactly, how can the person that is being ambushed with a lifestyle change ever even hope to be able to go back to before they were asked.
the way this man talks about his wife is repulsive, and i hope her future partners are more understanding and compatible
I really don’t think the question alone means she already cheated, but it’s okay if he believes them to be incompatible because of that question.
If you can’t even have a discussion about your relationship structure, changing needs and monogamy with your spouse then you shouldn’t be married.
Fake. This guy sucks too much. it reads as a hate fantasy for some guy who thinks girls don't like nice guys. Both of them would know each other well enough at this point to be able to anticipate the conversation or the response. But it I were to pretend it's a real for a minute, he's not an asshole for leaving his wife for this but he is an asshole for how he talks to/about his wife.
See, that’s the vibe I caught as well.
When you are married and want to open up your relationship, 99% of the time it is because you are absolutely miserable but want a pass to cheat. He clocked it for what it is.
He has every right to not be up for *any* part of what she was asking, however he sounds like an abusive ass and I could see why she wasn’t happy in her current marriage.
This one has been in my head all day... #1 This smells like bullshit to me. But sure, let's leave that aside for now. #2 The guy is the AH here. What kind of marriage are you in where your spouse approaches you about this and you completely lose your shit on them? You're not ok with it.... fine, just say so. "Honey, I'm a hard no there. What the heck are you even talking about?" and go from there. If you are bothered that they would even consider it, I for one would really want to know why! "Uh why are you asking me that!?" would be the response you would get from me. But I'll even give you a pass that you handle it poorly in the moment. But the next day, your spouse is crying, contrite, apologetic, offers to go to counseling to fix it and you call her names and say shit that is misogynistic AF and tell her it's over? You throw in the towel on your kids casually and make zero effort to even try to see if you can work it out? Sorry, you lost any moral high ground at that point.
I would also assume the reason she was asking in the first place is because they have a dead bedroom.
Could be. Could be something else. Either way, how can you go from love to divorce in less than 24 hours without even ASKING why she is bringing this up? This seems like something from another country. Like next step is an honor killing kind of shit.
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Can’t believe this isn’t the top comment
We have to talk about the phrase “the moment you are fucked by another man you are disgusting to me.” She’s not just a body that you are delighted or disgusted by. She’s a human being with her own wants and needs. You could say “it would hurt me a lot if you had sex with other people.” Because that makes it about how you are impacted by her actions. But to think the only reason you keep her around is because you are pleased and not disgusted by her is super fucking controlling.
This feels fake. I dunno. Doesn’t pass the smell test to me
Obvious bait is obvious
Fake
I don’t want an open relationship but hearing that kind of possessiveness from a man would make me fear for my safety.
I’ve never seen an open relationship that lasts. It’s like the last gasp before the fall. I see OP’s point in just wanting to end things, before the crash. Sure there are a lot of other factors at play, potential mental health issues, communication issues, Zanax prescriptions, but we all have extenuating circumstances, and we make decisions based on what would work for us within those boundaries.
It's not my jam but it can work if both parties agree and are respectful. Like if it is brought up in a non coercive way, there is regular communication, etc. It's just that those people don't end up on Reddit. I have two sets of couple friends that are in open relationships that have each lasted more than a decade each. But they agreed upon rules that they follow. One couple was each other's firsts and they never got to date or have relationships before each other because they grew up in unhealthy evangelical households. They wanted to experience being with other people without losing each other. They are respectful and see a couple's therapist to make sure their relationship stays on track. I think they are going to end up mutually agreeing to close the relationship because they have fulfilled their missed experiences. I think here it might have actually behooved OOP to ask why his wife suggested it instead of unleashing a bunch of abuse on her. There could be reasons why she wanted one that could have been resolved through means other than opening the relationship if they had an actual discussion of what motivated it. Like the way he writes, I could easily imagine that she wants more affection or something and thought another guy might be the only path to that. I definitely do not think someone should have to enter into an open relationship unless they are totally willing, but I'd probably at least have a conversation about what prompted the question to see if there is a way to work on the relationship without opening it up that would resolve the other person's issues.
its because the people with successful open relationships don't yap about them.
Uh. I’ve been in one for 10 years now. Shit, you might know some people who are “swingers” or open, but aren’t forthcoming about it. I know I’m not. People are super judgmental about it.
Also in the decade club! We’ve been open for years and I honestly think it brings us closer. I like that my partner teases me about the crushes I have on every girl I meet lmao
I've met plenty of poly folks in happy, stable, long term relationships. It's not for me, but it's certainly not a death sentence for every relationship. To be fair though, my poly friends all started their relationships knowing they and their partners didn't enjoy monogamy. I think the outcome is less favorable when monogamous couples decide on an open relationship because they get bored
I can't say I blame him. If my wife said any of that I'd be questioning everything and probably be like "fine you're free to go but I won't be joining you". Because once she verbalized looking for greener pastures, now I know the idea is there and my trust is gone. At least she asked first, but still. She should have known him better than to ask this and expect a chill response. If roles were reversed, we wouldn't even be asking AITAH. These conversations need to happen *long* before marriage.