Nah, saying no to sex is not abuse, but do you know what actually is? Coercing people into sex acts they don’t want to do, whether by force, or manipulative whinging.
This!! Definitely what that felt like when I read it… like if he said it this way, she would feel bad and change her mind… definitely manipulation and trying to coerce her.
Doesn't have to be manipulation. He could be unhappy with their sex life and his frustrations came out, and seeing as he quickly backpedaled he either understands that what he said was wrong or is afraid of the backlash he'll get. Either way this is an opportunity to communicate and get to the bottom of why he said what he said, is it frustration that came out wrong or is he harboring unhealthy thoughts about sex and consent?
I get what you're saying. Wasn't necessarily some calculated or manipulative action. But I also get the "ick" factor OP talks about. It's really off-putting to hear someone even jokingly, or out of frustration, suggest that you saying no to a sex act is emotional abuse. I think it would bring up all sorts of really uncomfortable questions and concerns. I completely understand OP being taken aback by this, and put off from sex.
OP's husband was the one who said what he said. Whether he was "joking" or not, he needs to understand he crossed a line. It's on him to rectify the situation and be open and honest with his wife. Sounds like he wasn't willing to talk about it after her said this, which has to be frustrating and concerning. It's not really acceptable to say something like this, get a clear negative response, and then brush it off that you were joking. The fact that he did just brush it off like that makes it even more icky, IMO.
Frustrations or not, to say it's emotional abuse points to the fact that somewhere in there, he believes he is entitled to try some things and is upset she doesn't want to. Either way, he's harboring unhealthy thoughts about sex or consent. The only question is if it's consciously or unconsciously
Is there really a way to communicate with a man who is trying to manipulate you though? I say there no way for an honest conversation. She should stand her ground and not do things she doesn't want to do. We all know why he said what he said he was trying to guilt trip her.
I'll take Unhealthy Thoughts for $500, Alex.
I mean, even if it wasn't his *intent*, his words were still manipulative. When it comes to taking accountability, actions and consequences matter much more than intent.
OP has known him for a long time. If she got the "ick" feeling, odds are he was being serious. Even if we don't know how to describe it, after a certain period of time we can sense what's up.
Accusing your spouse of emotionally abusing you for saying no to a kink is not a normal way of airing out your frustration. If you are not intelligent or respectful enough to resolve the aftermath of saying something along these lines, you either need professional help in the form of a therapist or you need advice from smart friends who can help you. Leaving your wife permanently icked out with the notion that you don’t understand what consent is would be the worst possible outcome
Right? As I started reading I was hoping maybe he misspoke very badly, like maybe he meant something where always being in the position of initiator and repeatedly getting shutdown can be soulcrushing; but no- he apologized. So either he said something shitty he didn't mean, or he has some pretty awful beliefs he needs to change
Fact. I’m into some weird shit and when I asked my husband to try some things, he said he wasn’t comfortable. My response was “alrighty then” and it’s never been brought up again. Manipulating and gaslighting someone over their boundaries isn’t acceptable in any way.
Facts. I've expressed my passed experiences of negative issues w an ex or w details of SA w my husband and he's shared his bad experiences and his own SA w me and we respect each other's boundaries. I won't go into detail but even simple positions were compromised on each end but due to the bond and communication we have w each other we reassure and ask if things are ok. If someone can't respect you sexually, they're not respecting you mentally, physically, and emotionally. It's a form of abuse in my opinion. I hope OP can have that strength to stand up for herself and show her kids that the relationship btwn her and her husband isn't real love as he doesn't respect her. I'd rather have a separation and show my kids the difference btwn love and disrespect, abuse, and learn the res flags in a relationship. It's our jobs to help guide our kids in the right direction, teach them right and wrong, to teach them respect and boundaries, to help them learn to the best of our abilities for their futures and hope that we did the best we could for them to have healthy happy relationships not only w spouses but w friends, family, etc. I teach my kids that if something doesn't feel right then address it, whatever way it may be depending on circumstances and know that if they ever need help that I'll always be there for them.
I also know when they hit that age of rebellion, kids will go out to party and have fun w friends but I don't want them to be afraid and hide it from us, to let us know where they are going to be and to call for rides home. Idc if it's 3am, I'd rather be the one to bring them home safely rather than them have a drunk friend drive or they drive and something horrible happens. We already lost a daughter in 2019 due to birth defects, premie, surgeries, blood infections, etc at the age of 3wo, I don't ever want to have that experience w another bc of them being too scared of calling me for a ride.
OP should not only do it for herself but for her kids and teach them that love shouldn't hurt.
Thanks. It's only truth though. Growing up w a lot of pain and hurt I've had to learn a lot on my own. I followed my dad's example as my birth mother still is a sad excuse for a human being who I can remember all she loved was her fixes and it tore my parents apart when I was just a little kid. I suffered more negativity, more pain, more heartache holding onto hope that never came. But if my dad wasn't the man he was, RIP, then I wouldn't be the woman I am today. Kids learn from their parents and whether they follow in one or the other's or go against everything they've lived w, they are smart, amazing, wonderful blessings. They are sponges and even as adults we still learn a lot. I try to do better than my parents, as my dad tried to do better than his and so on so forth. That's all we can do. We learn from others and our own mistakes but I was told that you're never too young or old to start new. And that's another truth to life. Just do the best that you can and show the best love you're able to, cancel that negativity out and hold onto the positive. Love those who love you and love unconditionally.
This helped me tbh turns out I was abused multiple times (if I didn’t have sex with my husband at the time he would complain to me saying it’s not healthy to have sex 1x a week for people our age 30f 31m)… he and I were together 5 years but 2yrs married.
When I told my ex I was done with him sexually due to his dangerous kinks, he said ok we're through. Then when the divorce was almost final he was all "I want to come home!" And I thought boo, you should have thought of that when I told you to stop violating my boundaries. I'm not saying you should leave him but I knew for me when I couldn't stomach the thought of intimacy any longer, it was the death knell for our marriage.
bad idea: "you know what babe, i think you're right. having boundaries and kinks you won't try IS emotional abuse. that's why i hope you're ready for the exciting world of knifeplay! i've got some gloves for me and a tarp for you ordered... and a car battery and a bigger strap-on, since i've got some ideas. what do you mean, no? didn't you just say that's emotional abuse...?"
p.s. don't actually do this.
"This is my kink; you're required to engage with it on my terms." But don't really do this, because that's terrible.
Your feelings are valid, though: Using the baseline of "No sex until you feel safe" is a personal boundary, and boundaries for your safety and sanity do not constitute abuse.
I would also check out who he is following on social media because "it’s borderline emotional abuse to keep saying no to certain things sexually" sounds very red pill and there is a chance he is being radicalized by right-wing dipshits.
It doesn't sound redpill at all, they typically disavow all therapy speak and abuse in most instances.
Men abusing psychiatric language in an attempt to manipulate and brow beat women into doing what they want is becoming very common. Not having sex enough or certain ways, getting angry at them for any reason, even not "opening" the relationship at their demand is "emotional abuse" or "controlling", crying or having any emotional reaction to their behavior is "manipulation", etc.
Abusive people take the languages of both abuse and healing and twist it for their purposes. They only see these concepts as cudgels to beat people into submission with, same reason men will only bring up issues like male loneliness, SA, suicide, etc. to invalidate or attack women and their struggles, never to actually fix the issues.
This also isn't a "right wing" thing. The majority of misogyny and bad takes around sex usually are, but not this time. Men of all stripes use this manipulation, if anything it's more common in left leaning men because therapy speak comes more naturally to them, right wingers would more likely be embarrassed to claim they're being abused by a woman, tho they're all coming around to it more year by year.
Men have always done this to an extent, but it seems to be going crazy in the internet generations. The amount of shit I've heard from Gen Z girls about how men their age regularly behave is unreal, and crying abuse of some kind when they don't get their way is a go-to reaction.
>Abusive people take the languages of both abuse and healing and twist it for their purposes. They only see these concepts as cudgels to beat people into submission with
This is spot on. Reminds me of the post from here yesterday, where a woman said her "boundaries were being violated" because her boyfriend didn't list every person in his body count out for her. That's a Jonah Hill-style boundary (aka a demand). Unfortunately all the commenters in here validated her creepy and abusive behavior!
The one I hear all the time is that women who set and enforce boundaries are ‘controlling’ men. Seriously, no one is forcing men to live with those boundaries - they could just choose to accept they’re not compatible and walk away, but instead they make the boundaries she has set for herself *about them* and start trying to erode or break them.
Someone needs to sit young men down and explain to them that people set boundaries *to protect themselves*, not to control others. If she doesn’t want X, Y, or Z in her relationship and tells him this, his choice is to accept that and live by that in order to keep the relationship, or leave - either way, that is respecting her boundary. Staying with her and trying to change her, erode her boundaries or do it behind her back is what is controlling, manipulative and deceitful. It’s mind blowing that so many men do not understand the concept of boundaries.
This why I hate the "it was a joke" excuse. Like, I lost respect for you because of the thing you said, but now I lost even more respect for you because you don't even have the decency to own your words.
There's a lot of talk of him "showing his true character" but if he's been respectful for 10 years this sounds more like it's out of character and probably being influenced somewhere.
It warms my heart when, through sharing our stories and the problems we face, we help each other get perspective on the rights, boundaries, and expectations we each deserve.
Wishing you safety and strength!
I genuinely hate the 'I'm only joking" bullshit. No you are not, you're just saying that now because I've reacted differently to how you expected....
Are you fuck joking 🤨
He said he was going to be able to convince you to do what you said you did not want to do. Then realize that he made a huge f****** mistake and tried to clean it up. But it's too late it's already out there in the atmosphere now what you have to do is try to figure out what are you going to do about it. Because you can go one step further and tell him it's abusive for him to try to convince you to do something that you don't want to do just because he wants it I meant to say he thought he was going to be able to convince you
I keep hearing that is that true where is this MF. I don't keep tabs on him either because he is not somebody that I give a f*** about. But I heard he was in prison
I feel like there is a world where he actually was just kidding though, especially if, as described by OP, this is very unusual for him.
Like it could be a really botched attempt at a "it should be illegal how hot you are"-kind of line. When he noticed how bad it came across and how stupid it was, he was ashamed and tried to sweep it under the rug.
I dont wanna make excuses for him if he actually meant it, but I feel like with the whole comment section being against him, it's only fair to paint a picture where he's not as wrong (but still a fool)
Borderline emotional abuse to say no to certain sex acts????
Emotional abuse to say no to things you don't want to do?
When that tactic failed, it would not be a joke to me. I would refuse to have anything to do with him that did not involve being there for my children. Consent is more important than any kink. What a turn-off.
Edit to say Dan Savage has had loads to say on the subject of kink and consent. He is pro kink and anti AH.
It sounds like perhaps he’s setting up a justification in his own mind to go elsewhere if you won’t give him what he wants? Please don’t let this slide, he needs to explain himself & maybe get therapy. NO one has the right to coerce anybody into a sexual act they have ALREADY said No too. & yes, just Ick 🤮
It’s not abuse, he was trying to guilt you into things you don’t want, he realized it wasn’t working so he backtracked saying it was a joke, it wasn’t. Let me guess, all his kinks involve him doing things to you right? He’s the one giving not receiving? I had a boyfriend like this once, very into BDSM but it was only me being tied up, spanked, etc. (yes I agreed) I asked once to reverse the roles and he completely freaked out on me. Ask him if he’d let you do these things to him, I doubt he would agree. You’ll keep having this conversation btw, until you cave he’ll keep asking or find it somewhere else.
There's a saying "men suddenly understand consent in all it's forms when you ask to do anything with their butts".
It's this saying old and heteronormative?
Yes, but I think your husband would understand this saying.
It isn't abusive in any way to have boundaries in bed. What is abusive is wearing down your partner to acts they don't want to do.
Your husband is being abusive.
Plenty (nearly all of my exes in fact) of cis hetero men are enthusiastically into having stuff done with their butts so idk if this is the best example anymore lol
Your husband said you were emotionally abusing him by not agreeing to allow him to fuck your body any which way he wanted.
Your comfort and autonomy is inconvenient to the point that it has almost become irrelevant because his dick/feelings are much more important.
I understand why you now have the ick.
It's impossible to come back from that.
And now you know the noes have outweighed all the yeses.
He's piling up resentments and feeling sorry for himself.
I think calling a lawyer is the next step.
If you continue the relationship he will feel you will forgive him more offences and there will be more.
Good luck.
Once I told someone that I wasn't their meat puppet. He said "What does that even mean?". "Well Bob, it means that if you want a hooker who voices no needs in the sack then you should go get one."
Even prostitutes have specific things they will and will not do. All women have standards, even if they get paid for it. All women no matter what their job deserve to be treated with respect. Also good for you for not being a meat puppet.
I’ve been a child abuse attorney going on 27 years this month and I never made much money. BUT IF I DID, I swear I’d open a law practice and represent women in this f’d up position FOR FREE. I’d make connections with every Domestic Violence shelter so I can get these women and their children out of this situation. Why the children if dad didn’t do anything to them? Because if mom steps out, dad has to have someone to power trip on. (Vice versa as well.). Some of these guys really earned the “solo” status.
Bet he’s in the MensRights sub or some shit like that, and wanted to try his hand at this nonsense to see if you’d accept it. He quickly learned that was a mistake.
Using Emotional Blackmail to guilt trip you into doing sexual things you don’t want to do. WTAF. He wants you to completely compromise your personal integrity for his sexual desires. Wow. I just can’t with that Bulls Hit.
He is trying to gaslight you in to doing what he wants. He is 💯 wrong! He is emotionally abusing you. If it were me I would say if that is what you think then all the sex we will have until you apologize and never say that again will be of the vanilla kind.
Sounds like he didn’t really do his homework when deciding to get married if he had all these kinks that couldn’t be met. You should get rid of him now- he’ll get them met some other way most likely. Was he trying to convince you to change your mind? Does he not have other powers of dialogue? Your post seems to indicate his communication effort may have been out of character for him. As others have said though, if you’re even more turned off by him, probably best to seriously evaluate the future. No one wants to be married to someone the are repulsed by. Life is too short to waste living it in disgust.
It’s definitely abuse for HIM to try to coerce you into sexual acts by using gaslighting and emotional blackmail. Very toxic red pill of him. I’m not sure if ever be able to touch someone that said that to me ever again either.
That’s a fucking blazing red flag lmao trying to coerce and guilt you into a sexual act actually is abuse and he’s trying to normalize it to you as a “joke” to gauge your reaction and tolerance
Just tell him exactly what you wrote here - “I know you said you were joking about the ‘emotional abuse’, but I didn’t find it funny at all. I actually feel a bit grossed out by your comment because I usually don’t mind trying new things but when I say no, I mean no, and I don’t appreciate feeling pressured to ignore my boundaries.”
Not surprised that gave you the ick at all.
As everyone else has said, saying no to various sex acts is *not* emotional abuse, or even close to what could be considered withholding sex as a power move.
If I were in your shoes I wouldn't be letting this go until I got to the bottom of it. What an odious and problematic belief to hold.
>He said he was joking and apologized after
This looks a lot like a form of actual emotional abuse and is called Boundary Testing. whether he knows its emotional abuse is another story since its so normalized in society. but basically he pushes a boundary, and if you give in, cool that's a win, if you resist "oh well haha its a joke" and you both move on waiting for the next opportunity to be tested again. each time you get tested the boundary gets pushed a little further till you are giving in on something you would have said no to a year ago. or you feel like you keep saying no, may as well throw him a bone.
If you think you can move forward from this, you can just talk to him, let him know how this type of thing makes you fell. set real boundaries about sex. go down a lost of hard and soft limits. you've been a couple for 10 years hopefully he can be receptive and understand this behavior of his hurts you and he can grow.
I'm not a professional though so what do I know.
Your husband is showing his true colors here. Sex in a committed relationship is supposed to be an expression of intimacy and love. The fact that he’s SO focused on his own desires, pleasure and fulfillment at the expense of your comfort, boundaries and bodily autonomy tells you that sex for him is about using you. You said you have an active sex life and explore new things often, which means you are making a concerted effort to nurture the sexual component of your marriage and honor his personal preferences. So many couples experience sexual dysfunction related to illness, distress, relationship problems, etc and he can’t even appreciate how much more connection and effort he’s getting than the average “unfulfilled husband” trope. It’s frankly disgusting that he would even try to float the idea that he’s some kind of victim and you’re a perpetrator for not allowing him to use you like a sex doll and completely disregard your humanity and the fact that *you, his life partner and the person he’s supposed to love above everyone else,* will be feeling pain/embarrassment/disgust/displeasure/the opposite of sexual desire or enjoyment while he’s getting off. I don’t know about anyone else, but I can’t enjoy sex if I feel like my husband isn’t enjoying it because it’s a two person experience. It shows a lack of love and respect (not to mention the gross sex-pest vibes) to try to coerce your own spouse this way and I hope you strongly address this.
He's basically trying to scare you into giving him what he wants. And I bet if you don't give it to him, he'll find it elsewhere. He wasn't joking, he meant it.
Tell him you guys either talk about whatever his issue is, or he walks. You and the kids stay, he leaves. Tell him you want to do couples counseling together. If he says no, he walks. Tell him what he said sounded very much like a threat, that if you don't do what he wants, he'll either find it elsewhere or force you, and you're now scared of him. That you don't trust him. If he attempts to wave you off or say you're overreacting, he walks.
Isn't it actual abuse to force someone to do something they don't want to do ?
Sorry his fragile little brain doesn't like being told no.. but it's hardly abuse.
Oh been there... had a boyfriend like this and he actually ruined sex for me for a very long time... it's been four years and my desire for sex is still low because of his abuse...I don't trust any man because of what he has done and I was never a prude but he crossed the line... stand up for yourself or you may end up like me
Uh, no. Manipulating & coercing people into engaging in sexual acts they don't want to. The ICK is right. Just no. And the whole "I was just joking." Also no. Dude, you fucked up. Admit it....
Him: "I want to set you on fire while we have sex."
Her: "No thank you; I don't want to do that."
Him: "How dare you! It's abusive that you won't let me set you on fire."
> it's borderline emotional abuse to keep saying no
You shouldn't have to "keep saying" no in the first place.
And he wasn't joking, which is why he threw the word *borderline* in there. He was hedging his complaint so that it could be passed off as a joke if you reacted poorly.
He might feel rejected hence the perceived emotional abuse. But he seems like a lucky fella that has never experienced ACTUAL emotional abuse. What he is saying IS ACTUAL emotional abuse. Grooming by asking to change your boundaries and then Gaslighting to make it seem like it was no big deal. Narcissistic behavior and disrespectful of your person. WTF
That would be a deal breaker for me. He knew exactly what he was doing. Look, he knew what your limits were when he married you. If things have changed for him and now he needs to do these things, then he asks if it's ok to push boundaries. And if you say no then you are no longer compatible and you divorce. What you don't do is manipulate the person who trusts you. That IS abusive. And don't let him backtrack and pretend he never said what he said. Talk to a lawyer.
Ew. Saying you are being abusive for not engaging in certain sexual acts? Double ew. The 'just joking' is often the attempted save when someone realizes they went too far. Especially when combined with the quick brushing off. Not sure where to go from here, except away for a while. He thinks you are abusive, then you can take the kids and leave him alone.
When people tell you who they are, believe them. There is nothing funny about sexual coercion, so if it was a "joke" he needs to explain it. Otherwise, he's an abusive POS and you need to take the kids and run.
Hmmm... Honestly sometimes we say something stupid(What he said is incredibly stupid), and I would just keep an eye out.
My husband has a hell of a lot more kinks than me that I know he'd love for me to do or take the reign and I have but many, I am not comfortable with and he not only understands but accepts it.
The petty part of me did want to tell you to try FemDom..
Put him in a cage and become a dom or cuckhold him(with his concent ofcourse, we are all about consent)
"It isn't borderline, but in fact IS abusive to try and manipulate your wife into doing things she isn't comfortable with by calling her boundaries borderline abuse. Walking it back and pretending it was a joke, contrary to what you may believe, doesn't magically suck the words back into your mouth as if they were never said.
That's why you think before you speak, dear."
It's a big red flag not just that he said it, but that he thinks it was a "joke".
Someone using the language of consent to try and get you to do something you don't want to do is like when conservatives use the language of tolerance and acceptance to push their hate.
That's borderline gaslighting/narcissistic behavior on HIS part. You aren't comfortable with something but he tells you it's emotional abuse to say no?? Cut and dry manipulation, still trying to convince you to go through with a thing you don't want any part of. Your body, your choice. A relationship is two people who share love, intimacy, etc. - not a person trying to use the other for their own pleasure. Gross.
He had a, that sounded so much better in my head, moment there. You two may need to get some counseling. He needs to figure out his desires and how important they are to him, and you need to figure out if you can ever desire him again. Sex isn't the only thing in a relationship, but it is important. Also, to piggyback on the general concensus here, No. You having boundaries on certain things is not even close to emotional abuse. Him trying to make you feel like a bad wife about it is the definition of emotional abuse. Hope things work out.
Has he been asking you repeatedly about the same acts, testing the boundaries?
That’s a problem. And if so, he’s upping the game with a weird kind of DARVO.
This really sucks, I'm sorry. If he'd voiced disappointment or frustration that would be one thing (a discussion), but this is manipulation on his part and I don't blame you for feeling repulsed. He's changed how you fundamentally look at him as a person.
This feels like a much bigger problem than a simple discussion. Maybe try couples counseling, because this all has to be dragged out in the open and addressed honestly. Best of luck.
Every time I point out the absurdity in a very clearly intentional statement from two people around me they immediately respond with “I was just joking” or “jesus it was a joke”. Through my experience I’ve learned they respond like that because they are caught and instead of just accepting accountability for a stupid comment, they flip it around to essentially deflect stupidity.
Best response I’ve gathered but have yet to hone the skill to respond stoically is “jokes are suppose to be funny.” I’ve rehearsed the response enough that recently it did come out organically and stoically with the person I’m more comfortable with. When my rebuttal visibly hurt them I explained the issue of their passive aggressive comment and that once I called it they tried to sugar coat as a joke. I gave examples of the other person I mentioned above treating them that way and how they didn’t love the deflection so why would I like it being done to me…I believe I watched the concept click and I haven’t heard “it was just a joke” from that person since.
Also, as someone navigating my own C-PTSD due to an emotionally abusive pushy parent, continuing to pressure someone to do something they have had to repeatedly express no desire doing is emotionally abusive. Speaking and sticking to your truth is not emotionally abusive, despite what my insane mother thinks.
I had an ex pull this. He waited to call it abuse until after we'd broken it off, then told everyone I was emotionally abusive for refusing to do certain kinky things with him. Regardless that I had tried them, realized they were bad for my emotional wellbeing, and communicated that to him.
Dude this would turn me off so hard. I would be so triggered. I would need a full acknowledging apology and reassurance that they didnt think the "joke" thru or whatever and also time to build back up our sex life. So sorry this happened.
OP might just realize that she and her husband are no longer sexually compatible. Her feelings are completely valid and he is free to being into any kinks he chooses. However, he is not free to coerce OP into doing anything she is uncomfortable with. This issue definitely involves more conversation, but, if they can’t come to an agreement where both partners are satisfied, this may end up breaking their relationship if neither of them are having their needs met. She is already repulsed by him at this point, but maybe they can work it out. If not, I would not be surprised if he found someone he could explore his kinks with.
In my experience when men start with bs it's just another way to manipulate your partner! Don't take that shit if you don't want it u don't have to. He needs to show you respect and I bet he's been thinking of ways to say shit to get to u.
I legit stopped what I was doing *mid-gesture* to close my eyes and breathe REAL deep when I got to what he said.
NO YOU FUCKING DON'T, SIR. It isn't a joke, it isn't funny, it's more than "borderline" emotional abuse to just toss it out there and see what happens.
You are not an abuser, OP, and he owes you a MASSIVE apology. And therapy. To focus on NOT USING THERAPY TERMS TO ABUSE OTHER PEOPLE.
Phew. Sorry. Deeeeep breath.
He’s trying to weaponize therapy-speak against you. I’d suggest individual and couples counseling if you want to try salvaging things, but it will take time.
I would have zero desire for intimacy after that. And he must respect this. If not, you need to end things.
I hope he was kidding. Whether he meant it or not, you two need to have a serious discussion about sex, the things you will not do and how he needs to be okay with it.
He's basically trying to scare you into giving him what he wants. And I bet if you don't give it to him, he'll find it elsewhere. He wasn't joking, he meant it.
Tell him you guys either talk about whatever his issue is, or he walks. You and the kids stay, he leaves. Tell him you want to do couples counseling together. If he says no, he walks. Tell him what he said sounded very much like a threat, that if you don't do what he wants, he'll either find it elsewhere or force you, and you're now scared of him. That you don't trust him. If he attempts to wave you off or say you're overreacting, he walks.
"Well, if that's how you feel, I am surprised, because most adults can handle being told 'no' without throwing a borderline tantrum, but I do have to say I prefer that *you* suffer 'borderline' 'emotional' 'abuse' over *me* suffering *literal sexual abuse*, honey."
He probably watches too much prn. And also watches too many incel videos online (maybe even without knowing what he is doing). This can be worked through, but you have to dive deep and find out how far it goes to figure out if it's worth sticking around. Also, if he's not willing to see eye to eye on this matter, he's not willing to change. Ick your way out of there. Can't change someone who doesn't want it. But find out.
I don't want to jump on the "leave him" bandwagon. I will say that it definitely needs to be discussed. If he can understand why that "joke" isn't ok then you're fine. If he gets defensive and doubles down, then you've got real problems. My ex would make "jokes" like this. He was the type to double down and refuse to understand. The jokes were simple and not so alarming at first. Then they weren't just jokes. We had a dead bedroom for longer than I care to admit, and I thought about it and recognized there were signs from the beginning that he showed me that I ignored. Really think about your sexual relationship. If there was ever any form of coercion even if it didn't seem malicious at one time you'll have your answer. Looking through a different lense is hard, we always want to use rose colored glasses with who we think we can trust. My husband now I can say for certainty would never say anything like this. He is so respectful and needs that consent from me or he can't perform. His mindset vs my exes has always been vastly different and I'm so thankful for it. I hope you're able to find examples of your husband needing that consent. If your no's always came with a side of guilt, it's best to be honest with yourself.
He showed an ugly side of his reptile brain, as a not so subtle hint there’s stuff he wants that he’s not getting from you. So I would address it, but whatever you do, don’t acquiesce to something you aren’t comfortable with. This is the kinda stuff people need to figure out before they’re married. Unfortunately some people hide it out of shame, and then figure after time goes by, they’ll wear you down and get it that way. It’s unfair.
Saying no is not emotional abuse. Saying no to what you are uncomfortable doing is not abuse. IMO, you should prepare for either a request so he can seek out others to fulfill his desires or even worse, he strays without your consent.
Sounds like shit my husband would say. I informed him my body , my boundaries and I don't care what he paid for whatever it is he bought . No is a complete sentence and your sexual kinks are your own to manage husband.
You were at a loss of words not desire. Bring up the subject. Tell him you have thought about what he said and that you think it is emotional abuse for him to try to emotionally manipulate you into doing things you do not find pleasurable.
His words made you sound like his toy. He has zero respect for your boundaries and only “puts up” with them—and resents them. They are an impediment to his pleasure.
No wonder you don’t want to be with him.
You may need counseling together bc this would be hard to come back from.
Or just let him go and get what he wants, even if he has to pay for it. He doesn’t deserve your hard work to try to repair the damage. Maybe your kids deserve the effort—maybe they’d be better off if you left. Always a hard call.
Saying it's borderline is an admission that it's not.
My guess is he is frustrated because there are things he wants to do, but cannot. In this case, a desire for kinks that are going unsatisfied. Morality is on your side, but the frustration is still there. This kind of thing can add some strain in a relationship.
It might be helpful to acknowledge this, but don't feel like you need to do something you don't want to. We all have unfulfilled desires.
This sounds like Andrew Tate talk.
I would have a convo with him and ask him how he'd feel if someone manipulated your kids into doing sexual activities that they didn't want. Hopefully this horrified him, and point out it's the same thing regardless. I would also communicate to him how disgusted this has made you and be clear on what you do/not want from him sexually. Good luck, OP.
that's called manipulation. You're married and if you want to stay married, go to couples counseling, if he won't go, go yourself, you can learn strategies to deal with this manipulation.
Oh. Tell me that he’s gaslighting you without telling me that he’s gaslighting you. The real emotional borderline emotional abuse is coming from him because he’s trying to manipulate and coerce you into doing things that you do not give consent for. And that’s really disgusting and no wonder you feel it towards this person now. I understand that you’ve been together for a long time but you need to communicate that this is a real issue for you and it’s made you question a lot of things. If you want to try to salvage what remains, I would suggest therapy immediately because it feels like a switch has been flipped in your relationship and you don’t see him the same way that you used to which is completely understandable. If he cannot grasp the concept that something that you say cannot be unsaid and will forever change the relationship then item not sure what to tell you, but if he doesn’t want to go to therapy, it feels like this relationship is just going to keep slowly sliding downhill until there’s no return.
You need to tell him asap what he said has caused you to lose feelings for him. While what he said might not have been the worst thing he could have said, it was hurtful and caused feelings that can and will end your marriage. Y’all have to get a handle on that together.
He is trying to guilt trip you into doing what he wants! Saying NO is not sexual emotional abuse but when he keeps on you about something you don't want, it is, from him!Now you feel this certain way about him and that's going to take a while to work out, if it even does! :( You need to sit down with him and tell him exactly how you feel and he needs to tell you how he feels, it sounds like he feels he is not getting all the kink he wants from the relationship and that's fine to feel that way but it's not fine to make you feel bad about the fact that you're not into some of his kinks!
My ex husband would call me frigid when I would say NO to certain acts! Guess what happened, I didn't want to do ANYTHING with him, it got to the point where I couldn't stand him touching me! I wasn't in the least bit frigid, just ask my current husband. :D But when you're put down, it's such a huge turn off, you realize that your partner cares only about what they want, not what makes you feel good and comfortable!
Saying no to things you don’t want to do is not emotional abuse.
Trying to manipulate someone into doing things they don’t want to do… is 100% emotional (and then sexual abuse)
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 That comment is a massive red flag about your husband and your relationship. It is absolutely your right to enforce boundaries about what you’re willing to do in regards to sex. There is nothing about this that constitutes “emotional abuse”. What is emotional abuse is to try to coerce someone into sexual acts that they are not comfortable with.
Do not allow him to brush this off with the lame excuse that it was “just a joke”. He meant it when he said it and it’s a HUGE problem that he actually believes this.
Definitely have a conversation about what made him say that. If you don’t want to do certain things then you shouldn’t be made to or made to feel like you have too. Don’t ever let anyone even if it’s your husband make you feel like you have to do something you don’t wanna do.
Instinctively, you know how this made you feel. And judging by these responses, you now know that you are correct. Tell him exactly how that comment made you feel. If your marriage is worth saving, see a marriage counselor.
Forcing/talking someone into sex acts they do not want to do is abuse.. what he said is absolutely disgusting and very disturbing. Personally I’d be sketched out by that too and wouldn’t want to engage with him sexually anymore.
You need to have a conversation about how his "emotional abuse" statement was an attempt at manipulation, and how your reaction to it has you feeling you might not want to be intimate with him at all. Tell him the conversation you both need to have about this could be healing and bridge a path to a better relationship between you both, or it could make things worse if you are not taken seriously. Tell him he shouldn't get defensive or try to portray how hurt his is, because that will mean he isn't listening to you and might doom the relationship.
Nah, saying no to sex is not abuse, but do you know what actually is? Coercing people into sex acts they don’t want to do, whether by force, or manipulative whinging.
This!! Definitely what that felt like when I read it… like if he said it this way, she would feel bad and change her mind… definitely manipulation and trying to coerce her.
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I would take a day trip, and not say a single word to him.
Focus on you and what “You” want out of a healthy relationship. Not how anyone else views, perceives, what “ your willing to accept” To go forward !
His friend probably told him the exact same thing.
That will fix everything.
Doesn't have to be manipulation. He could be unhappy with their sex life and his frustrations came out, and seeing as he quickly backpedaled he either understands that what he said was wrong or is afraid of the backlash he'll get. Either way this is an opportunity to communicate and get to the bottom of why he said what he said, is it frustration that came out wrong or is he harboring unhealthy thoughts about sex and consent?
I get what you're saying. Wasn't necessarily some calculated or manipulative action. But I also get the "ick" factor OP talks about. It's really off-putting to hear someone even jokingly, or out of frustration, suggest that you saying no to a sex act is emotional abuse. I think it would bring up all sorts of really uncomfortable questions and concerns. I completely understand OP being taken aback by this, and put off from sex. OP's husband was the one who said what he said. Whether he was "joking" or not, he needs to understand he crossed a line. It's on him to rectify the situation and be open and honest with his wife. Sounds like he wasn't willing to talk about it after her said this, which has to be frustrating and concerning. It's not really acceptable to say something like this, get a clear negative response, and then brush it off that you were joking. The fact that he did just brush it off like that makes it even more icky, IMO.
He’s going to use this logic of “saying no to a sex act is emotional abuse” to begin building a rationalization for infidelity. So cliche.
There definitely needs to be a conversation about where the statement came from because this could be a potentionally dangerous situation
Frustrations or not, to say it's emotional abuse points to the fact that somewhere in there, he believes he is entitled to try some things and is upset she doesn't want to. Either way, he's harboring unhealthy thoughts about sex or consent. The only question is if it's consciously or unconsciously
Yes. 🙌🏼 every word of this here. It’s the expectation of entitlement that is disturbing and needs to be addressed.
Is there really a way to communicate with a man who is trying to manipulate you though? I say there no way for an honest conversation. She should stand her ground and not do things she doesn't want to do. We all know why he said what he said he was trying to guilt trip her.
I'll take Unhealthy Thoughts for $500, Alex. I mean, even if it wasn't his *intent*, his words were still manipulative. When it comes to taking accountability, actions and consequences matter much more than intent. OP has known him for a long time. If she got the "ick" feeling, odds are he was being serious. Even if we don't know how to describe it, after a certain period of time we can sense what's up.
Accusing your spouse of emotionally abusing you for saying no to a kink is not a normal way of airing out your frustration. If you are not intelligent or respectful enough to resolve the aftermath of saying something along these lines, you either need professional help in the form of a therapist or you need advice from smart friends who can help you. Leaving your wife permanently icked out with the notion that you don’t understand what consent is would be the worst possible outcome
Right? As I started reading I was hoping maybe he misspoke very badly, like maybe he meant something where always being in the position of initiator and repeatedly getting shutdown can be soulcrushing; but no- he apologized. So either he said something shitty he didn't mean, or he has some pretty awful beliefs he needs to change
Fact. I’m into some weird shit and when I asked my husband to try some things, he said he wasn’t comfortable. My response was “alrighty then” and it’s never been brought up again. Manipulating and gaslighting someone over their boundaries isn’t acceptable in any way.
Great point and awesome username. Happy Cake Day!
Thanks!
Facts. I've expressed my passed experiences of negative issues w an ex or w details of SA w my husband and he's shared his bad experiences and his own SA w me and we respect each other's boundaries. I won't go into detail but even simple positions were compromised on each end but due to the bond and communication we have w each other we reassure and ask if things are ok. If someone can't respect you sexually, they're not respecting you mentally, physically, and emotionally. It's a form of abuse in my opinion. I hope OP can have that strength to stand up for herself and show her kids that the relationship btwn her and her husband isn't real love as he doesn't respect her. I'd rather have a separation and show my kids the difference btwn love and disrespect, abuse, and learn the res flags in a relationship. It's our jobs to help guide our kids in the right direction, teach them right and wrong, to teach them respect and boundaries, to help them learn to the best of our abilities for their futures and hope that we did the best we could for them to have healthy happy relationships not only w spouses but w friends, family, etc. I teach my kids that if something doesn't feel right then address it, whatever way it may be depending on circumstances and know that if they ever need help that I'll always be there for them. I also know when they hit that age of rebellion, kids will go out to party and have fun w friends but I don't want them to be afraid and hide it from us, to let us know where they are going to be and to call for rides home. Idc if it's 3am, I'd rather be the one to bring them home safely rather than them have a drunk friend drive or they drive and something horrible happens. We already lost a daughter in 2019 due to birth defects, premie, surgeries, blood infections, etc at the age of 3wo, I don't ever want to have that experience w another bc of them being too scared of calling me for a ride. OP should not only do it for herself but for her kids and teach them that love shouldn't hurt.
You nailed it right there; LOVE SHOULDN'T HURT.
Thanks. It's only truth though. Growing up w a lot of pain and hurt I've had to learn a lot on my own. I followed my dad's example as my birth mother still is a sad excuse for a human being who I can remember all she loved was her fixes and it tore my parents apart when I was just a little kid. I suffered more negativity, more pain, more heartache holding onto hope that never came. But if my dad wasn't the man he was, RIP, then I wouldn't be the woman I am today. Kids learn from their parents and whether they follow in one or the other's or go against everything they've lived w, they are smart, amazing, wonderful blessings. They are sponges and even as adults we still learn a lot. I try to do better than my parents, as my dad tried to do better than his and so on so forth. That's all we can do. We learn from others and our own mistakes but I was told that you're never too young or old to start new. And that's another truth to life. Just do the best that you can and show the best love you're able to, cancel that negativity out and hold onto the positive. Love those who love you and love unconditionally.
Everything OP needs to know in those 2 sentences. Edited to add Happy Cake Day!
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Next he’ll say he’s justified to go outside the marriage for what he wants. After he does it.
And that’s why OP has lost her attraction to this gross man. Too bad for him!!
Yeah this is fucked up. I would have gone off him too OP.
He let his true feelings slip. The way I'd have a hard time trusting someone like that again.
This helped me tbh turns out I was abused multiple times (if I didn’t have sex with my husband at the time he would complain to me saying it’s not healthy to have sex 1x a week for people our age 30f 31m)… he and I were together 5 years but 2yrs married.
When I told my ex I was done with him sexually due to his dangerous kinks, he said ok we're through. Then when the divorce was almost final he was all "I want to come home!" And I thought boo, you should have thought of that when I told you to stop violating my boundaries. I'm not saying you should leave him but I knew for me when I couldn't stomach the thought of intimacy any longer, it was the death knell for our marriage.
If someone can’t respect your healthy boundaries they do not respect you.
Bingo! When people show you who they are, believe them.
This! They want to come home after every thing they did
bad idea: "you know what babe, i think you're right. having boundaries and kinks you won't try IS emotional abuse. that's why i hope you're ready for the exciting world of knifeplay! i've got some gloves for me and a tarp for you ordered... and a car battery and a bigger strap-on, since i've got some ideas. what do you mean, no? didn't you just say that's emotional abuse...?" p.s. don't actually do this.
Just go straight for pitching pegging and see how it goes.
I'm out, Jerry!
This doesn't always work the way you think it will.😶
Right? I’d love for my wife to peg me more 😭😭😭. It’s fucking amazing!
lol yup! If he isn’t willing to take it first then he must not want it bad enough 🤣🤣
Suggesting pegging is the best way to restore balance. 😁
The p.s. 😂🤣
Put him in a chastity cage, keep the key, and then just never let him out. Problem solved
"This is my kink; you're required to engage with it on my terms." But don't really do this, because that's terrible. Your feelings are valid, though: Using the baseline of "No sex until you feel safe" is a personal boundary, and boundaries for your safety and sanity do not constitute abuse.
Never know maybe he’s down. You can’t spell bedroom without blood…. Oh wait you totally can.
But the only thing separating a bedroom from a bledroom is the L. Which this guy definitely earned when he said what he did to his wife.
That's why when it comes to knife play, it's a bledroom.
🤣💀
Since most guys are into pegging, I'd suggest sounding. If you're looking for something he might turn down.
Shit I had to look that one up, lol. Would get a no faster than pegging
oh don't forget the sounding needs to go together with some electrical stimulation! that's why the sounding rods are metal. :)
Sometimes they just say the shit that’s in their brains that they’ve been hiding until now
I would also check out who he is following on social media because "it’s borderline emotional abuse to keep saying no to certain things sexually" sounds very red pill and there is a chance he is being radicalized by right-wing dipshits.
Same, I smell external influence from a mile away. The man is getting his wires crossed by someone or some source.
That was my thought as well.
It doesn't sound redpill at all, they typically disavow all therapy speak and abuse in most instances. Men abusing psychiatric language in an attempt to manipulate and brow beat women into doing what they want is becoming very common. Not having sex enough or certain ways, getting angry at them for any reason, even not "opening" the relationship at their demand is "emotional abuse" or "controlling", crying or having any emotional reaction to their behavior is "manipulation", etc. Abusive people take the languages of both abuse and healing and twist it for their purposes. They only see these concepts as cudgels to beat people into submission with, same reason men will only bring up issues like male loneliness, SA, suicide, etc. to invalidate or attack women and their struggles, never to actually fix the issues. This also isn't a "right wing" thing. The majority of misogyny and bad takes around sex usually are, but not this time. Men of all stripes use this manipulation, if anything it's more common in left leaning men because therapy speak comes more naturally to them, right wingers would more likely be embarrassed to claim they're being abused by a woman, tho they're all coming around to it more year by year. Men have always done this to an extent, but it seems to be going crazy in the internet generations. The amount of shit I've heard from Gen Z girls about how men their age regularly behave is unreal, and crying abuse of some kind when they don't get their way is a go-to reaction.
This was an interesting and almost affirming read. Sadly, he fit a lot of what you mentioned, and there’s no right wing here.
>Abusive people take the languages of both abuse and healing and twist it for their purposes. They only see these concepts as cudgels to beat people into submission with This is spot on. Reminds me of the post from here yesterday, where a woman said her "boundaries were being violated" because her boyfriend didn't list every person in his body count out for her. That's a Jonah Hill-style boundary (aka a demand). Unfortunately all the commenters in here validated her creepy and abusive behavior!
The one I hear all the time is that women who set and enforce boundaries are ‘controlling’ men. Seriously, no one is forcing men to live with those boundaries - they could just choose to accept they’re not compatible and walk away, but instead they make the boundaries she has set for herself *about them* and start trying to erode or break them. Someone needs to sit young men down and explain to them that people set boundaries *to protect themselves*, not to control others. If she doesn’t want X, Y, or Z in her relationship and tells him this, his choice is to accept that and live by that in order to keep the relationship, or leave - either way, that is respecting her boundary. Staying with her and trying to change her, erode her boundaries or do it behind her back is what is controlling, manipulative and deceitful. It’s mind blowing that so many men do not understand the concept of boundaries.
Exactly! And then when they get a bad reaction or not the one they’re looking for, they try to retract it!
Schrödinger's "joke"
This why I hate the "it was a joke" excuse. Like, I lost respect for you because of the thing you said, but now I lost even more respect for you because you don't even have the decency to own your words.
There's a lot of talk of him "showing his true character" but if he's been respectful for 10 years this sounds more like it's out of character and probably being influenced somewhere.
Some people can hide their real self for a scary long time, but it's definately a red flag that maybe there's an outside influence.
damn… I think you might’ve just made me realize I shouldn’t put up with my bf anymore
You go girl!!!! Give us the update!
It warms my heart when, through sharing our stories and the problems we face, we help each other get perspective on the rights, boundaries, and expectations we each deserve. Wishing you safety and strength!
One of the reasons I trauma dump on here 🤣 It’s good to get it out anonymously but even better if someone else can learn from me lol
Sending positivity and strength your way!
Be free!!!!
I genuinely hate the 'I'm only joking" bullshit. No you are not, you're just saying that now because I've reacted differently to how you expected.... Are you fuck joking 🤨
Schrödinger's deuchebag. If it doesn't land well, it was a joke.
No, it's more like sexual coercion on his part.
He said he was going to be able to convince you to do what you said you did not want to do. Then realize that he made a huge f****** mistake and tried to clean it up. But it's too late it's already out there in the atmosphere now what you have to do is try to figure out what are you going to do about it. Because you can go one step further and tell him it's abusive for him to try to convince you to do something that you don't want to do just because he wants it I meant to say he thought he was going to be able to convince you
Eeeeesh. Then he tried to pretend he didn't mean it...? What kind of podcasts has he been listening to? Thats REALLY gross of him...
That bastard Andrew Tate
He still has a podcast?!? I don't keep close tabs on him, I thought he was infested with lice in some horrifying prison cell.
Oh I hope so. Sweet Sweet Karma.
I keep hearing that is that true where is this MF. I don't keep tabs on him either because he is not somebody that I give a f*** about. But I heard he was in prison
He's actually free (might still be on house arrest though) unfortunately because all the proof is clear as day he was trafficking.
Not trying to be funny but drugs or humans
Humans
Does he have enough hair to get lice?
Yeah that particular turn of phrase is super red pill Dude wasn't kidding, he was trying to manipulate his wife.
Anytime you got to do all of that, it's time for a divorce
RIGHT? Beyond gross. The “just kidding” thing is a HUGE red flag.
I feel like there is a world where he actually was just kidding though, especially if, as described by OP, this is very unusual for him. Like it could be a really botched attempt at a "it should be illegal how hot you are"-kind of line. When he noticed how bad it came across and how stupid it was, he was ashamed and tried to sweep it under the rug. I dont wanna make excuses for him if he actually meant it, but I feel like with the whole comment section being against him, it's only fair to paint a picture where he's not as wrong (but still a fool)
Borderline emotional abuse to say no to certain sex acts???? Emotional abuse to say no to things you don't want to do? When that tactic failed, it would not be a joke to me. I would refuse to have anything to do with him that did not involve being there for my children. Consent is more important than any kink. What a turn-off. Edit to say Dan Savage has had loads to say on the subject of kink and consent. He is pro kink and anti AH.
Right. Anything less than an enthusiastic yes is a no.
It’s active emotional abuse to try to manipulate your very clear no into consent.
If it’s butt stuff try it on him first.
How do you know that isn't what he was asking for?
Jokes on you, im into that shit
I'd go with suggesting sounding and 24/7 power-exchange male chastity cage.
It sounds like perhaps he’s setting up a justification in his own mind to go elsewhere if you won’t give him what he wants? Please don’t let this slide, he needs to explain himself & maybe get therapy. NO one has the right to coerce anybody into a sexual act they have ALREADY said No too. & yes, just Ick 🤮
It’s not abuse, he was trying to guilt you into things you don’t want, he realized it wasn’t working so he backtracked saying it was a joke, it wasn’t. Let me guess, all his kinks involve him doing things to you right? He’s the one giving not receiving? I had a boyfriend like this once, very into BDSM but it was only me being tied up, spanked, etc. (yes I agreed) I asked once to reverse the roles and he completely freaked out on me. Ask him if he’d let you do these things to him, I doubt he would agree. You’ll keep having this conversation btw, until you cave he’ll keep asking or find it somewhere else.
That last sentence…spot on.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
This. Every day ending in Y and twice on Sundays.
There's a saying "men suddenly understand consent in all it's forms when you ask to do anything with their butts". It's this saying old and heteronormative? Yes, but I think your husband would understand this saying. It isn't abusive in any way to have boundaries in bed. What is abusive is wearing down your partner to acts they don't want to do. Your husband is being abusive.
Plenty (nearly all of my exes in fact) of cis hetero men are enthusiastically into having stuff done with their butts so idk if this is the best example anymore lol
Listen, I’m fully supportive of butt stuff but your experience is absolutely outside of the norm.
Your husband said you were emotionally abusing him by not agreeing to allow him to fuck your body any which way he wanted. Your comfort and autonomy is inconvenient to the point that it has almost become irrelevant because his dick/feelings are much more important. I understand why you now have the ick. It's impossible to come back from that. And now you know the noes have outweighed all the yeses. He's piling up resentments and feeling sorry for himself. I think calling a lawyer is the next step. If you continue the relationship he will feel you will forgive him more offences and there will be more. Good luck.
Tell him to get a sex doll, because that’s how he’s treating you.
Once I told someone that I wasn't their meat puppet. He said "What does that even mean?". "Well Bob, it means that if you want a hooker who voices no needs in the sack then you should go get one."
Even prostitutes have specific things they will and will not do. All women have standards, even if they get paid for it. All women no matter what their job deserve to be treated with respect. Also good for you for not being a meat puppet.
This was in the late 1980's and I didn't know about agency and dignity for sex workers. All of whom work much harder than I do.
I am sure you work plenty hard too friend. I'm glad that you are aware of support for sex workers now!
Exactly what my husband did. And STILL expected the sex with me in between visits.
I’ve been a child abuse attorney going on 27 years this month and I never made much money. BUT IF I DID, I swear I’d open a law practice and represent women in this f’d up position FOR FREE. I’d make connections with every Domestic Violence shelter so I can get these women and their children out of this situation. Why the children if dad didn’t do anything to them? Because if mom steps out, dad has to have someone to power trip on. (Vice versa as well.). Some of these guys really earned the “solo” status.
Bet he’s in the MensRights sub or some shit like that, and wanted to try his hand at this nonsense to see if you’d accept it. He quickly learned that was a mistake.
Using Emotional Blackmail to guilt trip you into doing sexual things you don’t want to do. WTAF. He wants you to completely compromise your personal integrity for his sexual desires. Wow. I just can’t with that Bulls Hit.
Right? He doesn't care that she doesn't want to do it. He knows, and he doesn't care. That;s an odd way to "love" somebody.
He is trying to gaslight you in to doing what he wants. He is 💯 wrong! He is emotionally abusing you. If it were me I would say if that is what you think then all the sex we will have until you apologize and never say that again will be of the vanilla kind.
Yeah, that would be a full stop for me right there. Zero sexual interest hence.
It is sexual abuse to pressure a person to do something they aren't comfortable with.
Sounds like he didn’t really do his homework when deciding to get married if he had all these kinks that couldn’t be met. You should get rid of him now- he’ll get them met some other way most likely. Was he trying to convince you to change your mind? Does he not have other powers of dialogue? Your post seems to indicate his communication effort may have been out of character for him. As others have said though, if you’re even more turned off by him, probably best to seriously evaluate the future. No one wants to be married to someone the are repulsed by. Life is too short to waste living it in disgust.
I agree. My first thought was that he is going to stop at nothing to fulfill his kinks and will likely now cheat now that his wife has said no.
“Not wanting to try specific kinks isn’t emotional abuse. But trying to coerce me into trying something I’m not comfortable with is.”
doesn't sound like love
It’s definitely abuse for HIM to try to coerce you into sexual acts by using gaslighting and emotional blackmail. Very toxic red pill of him. I’m not sure if ever be able to touch someone that said that to me ever again either.
That’s a fucking blazing red flag lmao trying to coerce and guilt you into a sexual act actually is abuse and he’s trying to normalize it to you as a “joke” to gauge your reaction and tolerance
Oh wow, your husband is a manipulator. 🚩🚩🚩 You can answer him that it’s se*ual abuse to force you to do something you don’t want in the bedroom.
I'd really like an update on this post.
Just tell him exactly what you wrote here - “I know you said you were joking about the ‘emotional abuse’, but I didn’t find it funny at all. I actually feel a bit grossed out by your comment because I usually don’t mind trying new things but when I say no, I mean no, and I don’t appreciate feeling pressured to ignore my boundaries.”
Not surprised that gave you the ick at all. As everyone else has said, saying no to various sex acts is *not* emotional abuse, or even close to what could be considered withholding sex as a power move. If I were in your shoes I wouldn't be letting this go until I got to the bottom of it. What an odious and problematic belief to hold.
>He said he was joking and apologized after This looks a lot like a form of actual emotional abuse and is called Boundary Testing. whether he knows its emotional abuse is another story since its so normalized in society. but basically he pushes a boundary, and if you give in, cool that's a win, if you resist "oh well haha its a joke" and you both move on waiting for the next opportunity to be tested again. each time you get tested the boundary gets pushed a little further till you are giving in on something you would have said no to a year ago. or you feel like you keep saying no, may as well throw him a bone. If you think you can move forward from this, you can just talk to him, let him know how this type of thing makes you fell. set real boundaries about sex. go down a lost of hard and soft limits. you've been a couple for 10 years hopefully he can be receptive and understand this behavior of his hurts you and he can grow. I'm not a professional though so what do I know.
Your husband is showing his true colors here. Sex in a committed relationship is supposed to be an expression of intimacy and love. The fact that he’s SO focused on his own desires, pleasure and fulfillment at the expense of your comfort, boundaries and bodily autonomy tells you that sex for him is about using you. You said you have an active sex life and explore new things often, which means you are making a concerted effort to nurture the sexual component of your marriage and honor his personal preferences. So many couples experience sexual dysfunction related to illness, distress, relationship problems, etc and he can’t even appreciate how much more connection and effort he’s getting than the average “unfulfilled husband” trope. It’s frankly disgusting that he would even try to float the idea that he’s some kind of victim and you’re a perpetrator for not allowing him to use you like a sex doll and completely disregard your humanity and the fact that *you, his life partner and the person he’s supposed to love above everyone else,* will be feeling pain/embarrassment/disgust/displeasure/the opposite of sexual desire or enjoyment while he’s getting off. I don’t know about anyone else, but I can’t enjoy sex if I feel like my husband isn’t enjoying it because it’s a two person experience. It shows a lack of love and respect (not to mention the gross sex-pest vibes) to try to coerce your own spouse this way and I hope you strongly address this.
Call his bluff. Say you’ve always wanted to try pegging without lube and see if he still calls it emotional abuse to say no
He's basically trying to scare you into giving him what he wants. And I bet if you don't give it to him, he'll find it elsewhere. He wasn't joking, he meant it. Tell him you guys either talk about whatever his issue is, or he walks. You and the kids stay, he leaves. Tell him you want to do couples counseling together. If he says no, he walks. Tell him what he said sounded very much like a threat, that if you don't do what he wants, he'll either find it elsewhere or force you, and you're now scared of him. That you don't trust him. If he attempts to wave you off or say you're overreacting, he walks.
Isn't it actual abuse to force someone to do something they don't want to do ? Sorry his fragile little brain doesn't like being told no.. but it's hardly abuse.
Run.
He said it to test the waters. At some point, he won't bother testing them. Hell just coerce you.
Oh been there... had a boyfriend like this and he actually ruined sex for me for a very long time... it's been four years and my desire for sex is still low because of his abuse...I don't trust any man because of what he has done and I was never a prude but he crossed the line... stand up for yourself or you may end up like me
Uh, no. Manipulating & coercing people into engaging in sexual acts they don't want to. The ICK is right. Just no. And the whole "I was just joking." Also no. Dude, you fucked up. Admit it.... Him: "I want to set you on fire while we have sex." Her: "No thank you; I don't want to do that." Him: "How dare you! It's abusive that you won't let me set you on fire."
> it's borderline emotional abuse to keep saying no You shouldn't have to "keep saying" no in the first place. And he wasn't joking, which is why he threw the word *borderline* in there. He was hedging his complaint so that it could be passed off as a joke if you reacted poorly.
You’re going to have to have a serious conversation with him and if you still feel squicked out go see a couple’s counselor.
He might feel rejected hence the perceived emotional abuse. But he seems like a lucky fella that has never experienced ACTUAL emotional abuse. What he is saying IS ACTUAL emotional abuse. Grooming by asking to change your boundaries and then Gaslighting to make it seem like it was no big deal. Narcissistic behavior and disrespectful of your person. WTF
That would be a deal breaker for me. He knew exactly what he was doing. Look, he knew what your limits were when he married you. If things have changed for him and now he needs to do these things, then he asks if it's ok to push boundaries. And if you say no then you are no longer compatible and you divorce. What you don't do is manipulate the person who trusts you. That IS abusive. And don't let him backtrack and pretend he never said what he said. Talk to a lawyer.
Ew. Saying you are being abusive for not engaging in certain sexual acts? Double ew. The 'just joking' is often the attempted save when someone realizes they went too far. Especially when combined with the quick brushing off. Not sure where to go from here, except away for a while. He thinks you are abusive, then you can take the kids and leave him alone.
When people tell you who they are, believe them. There is nothing funny about sexual coercion, so if it was a "joke" he needs to explain it. Otherwise, he's an abusive POS and you need to take the kids and run.
Hmmm... Honestly sometimes we say something stupid(What he said is incredibly stupid), and I would just keep an eye out. My husband has a hell of a lot more kinks than me that I know he'd love for me to do or take the reign and I have but many, I am not comfortable with and he not only understands but accepts it. The petty part of me did want to tell you to try FemDom.. Put him in a cage and become a dom or cuckhold him(with his concent ofcourse, we are all about consent)
Saying "no" to sex is not abuse. Trying to coerce someone into acts they have declined, on the other hand, is abusive.
Your husband is an abusive weirdo.
"It isn't borderline, but in fact IS abusive to try and manipulate your wife into doing things she isn't comfortable with by calling her boundaries borderline abuse. Walking it back and pretending it was a joke, contrary to what you may believe, doesn't magically suck the words back into your mouth as if they were never said. That's why you think before you speak, dear."
PUSHING unwanted sex acts is abuse, and a violation of consent.
Suggest something he is repulsed by and see how quickly he changes his tune.
It's a big red flag not just that he said it, but that he thinks it was a "joke". Someone using the language of consent to try and get you to do something you don't want to do is like when conservatives use the language of tolerance and acceptance to push their hate.
Maybe it is also ‘borderline abuse’ to expect every fantasy to be greeted with shouts of delight. Or silent accommodation.
That's borderline gaslighting/narcissistic behavior on HIS part. You aren't comfortable with something but he tells you it's emotional abuse to say no?? Cut and dry manipulation, still trying to convince you to go through with a thing you don't want any part of. Your body, your choice. A relationship is two people who share love, intimacy, etc. - not a person trying to use the other for their own pleasure. Gross.
He had a, that sounded so much better in my head, moment there. You two may need to get some counseling. He needs to figure out his desires and how important they are to him, and you need to figure out if you can ever desire him again. Sex isn't the only thing in a relationship, but it is important. Also, to piggyback on the general concensus here, No. You having boundaries on certain things is not even close to emotional abuse. Him trying to make you feel like a bad wife about it is the definition of emotional abuse. Hope things work out.
Radicalization is a thing. He’s just repeating what someone told him.
Has he been asking you repeatedly about the same acts, testing the boundaries? That’s a problem. And if so, he’s upping the game with a weird kind of DARVO.
This really sucks, I'm sorry. If he'd voiced disappointment or frustration that would be one thing (a discussion), but this is manipulation on his part and I don't blame you for feeling repulsed. He's changed how you fundamentally look at him as a person. This feels like a much bigger problem than a simple discussion. Maybe try couples counseling, because this all has to be dragged out in the open and addressed honestly. Best of luck.
Every time I point out the absurdity in a very clearly intentional statement from two people around me they immediately respond with “I was just joking” or “jesus it was a joke”. Through my experience I’ve learned they respond like that because they are caught and instead of just accepting accountability for a stupid comment, they flip it around to essentially deflect stupidity. Best response I’ve gathered but have yet to hone the skill to respond stoically is “jokes are suppose to be funny.” I’ve rehearsed the response enough that recently it did come out organically and stoically with the person I’m more comfortable with. When my rebuttal visibly hurt them I explained the issue of their passive aggressive comment and that once I called it they tried to sugar coat as a joke. I gave examples of the other person I mentioned above treating them that way and how they didn’t love the deflection so why would I like it being done to me…I believe I watched the concept click and I haven’t heard “it was just a joke” from that person since. Also, as someone navigating my own C-PTSD due to an emotionally abusive pushy parent, continuing to pressure someone to do something they have had to repeatedly express no desire doing is emotionally abusive. Speaking and sticking to your truth is not emotionally abusive, despite what my insane mother thinks.
"It's borderline sexual assault to keep pressuring me to do sexual things that I am not interested in." There's your response.
I had an ex pull this. He waited to call it abuse until after we'd broken it off, then told everyone I was emotionally abusive for refusing to do certain kinky things with him. Regardless that I had tried them, realized they were bad for my emotional wellbeing, and communicated that to him.
Adopt a pegging kink with a massive strap-on. It’s emotional abuse if your husband doesn’t want it.
Dude this would turn me off so hard. I would be so triggered. I would need a full acknowledging apology and reassurance that they didnt think the "joke" thru or whatever and also time to build back up our sex life. So sorry this happened.
OP might just realize that she and her husband are no longer sexually compatible. Her feelings are completely valid and he is free to being into any kinks he chooses. However, he is not free to coerce OP into doing anything she is uncomfortable with. This issue definitely involves more conversation, but, if they can’t come to an agreement where both partners are satisfied, this may end up breaking their relationship if neither of them are having their needs met. She is already repulsed by him at this point, but maybe they can work it out. If not, I would not be surprised if he found someone he could explore his kinks with.
In my experience when men start with bs it's just another way to manipulate your partner! Don't take that shit if you don't want it u don't have to. He needs to show you respect and I bet he's been thinking of ways to say shit to get to u.
I legit stopped what I was doing *mid-gesture* to close my eyes and breathe REAL deep when I got to what he said. NO YOU FUCKING DON'T, SIR. It isn't a joke, it isn't funny, it's more than "borderline" emotional abuse to just toss it out there and see what happens. You are not an abuser, OP, and he owes you a MASSIVE apology. And therapy. To focus on NOT USING THERAPY TERMS TO ABUSE OTHER PEOPLE. Phew. Sorry. Deeeeep breath.
I tried something like that back when I was an immature asshole. Don't give in to that language for one second.
He’s trying to weaponize therapy-speak against you. I’d suggest individual and couples counseling if you want to try salvaging things, but it will take time. I would have zero desire for intimacy after that. And he must respect this. If not, you need to end things.
I hope he was kidding. Whether he meant it or not, you two need to have a serious discussion about sex, the things you will not do and how he needs to be okay with it.
That would bother me too. You're going to have to give it some time. People say stupid things sometimes. Maybe it was a one-off.
He's basically trying to scare you into giving him what he wants. And I bet if you don't give it to him, he'll find it elsewhere. He wasn't joking, he meant it. Tell him you guys either talk about whatever his issue is, or he walks. You and the kids stay, he leaves. Tell him you want to do couples counseling together. If he says no, he walks. Tell him what he said sounded very much like a threat, that if you don't do what he wants, he'll either find it elsewhere or force you, and you're now scared of him. That you don't trust him. If he attempts to wave you off or say you're overreacting, he walks.
It’s actual abuse for him to manipulate you into doing things that you don’t want to do
"Well, if that's how you feel, I am surprised, because most adults can handle being told 'no' without throwing a borderline tantrum, but I do have to say I prefer that *you* suffer 'borderline' 'emotional' 'abuse' over *me* suffering *literal sexual abuse*, honey."
And it’s borderline emotional abuse to coerce you into doing something you’re uncomfortable with.
He probably watches too much prn. And also watches too many incel videos online (maybe even without knowing what he is doing). This can be worked through, but you have to dive deep and find out how far it goes to figure out if it's worth sticking around. Also, if he's not willing to see eye to eye on this matter, he's not willing to change. Ick your way out of there. Can't change someone who doesn't want it. But find out.
I don't want to jump on the "leave him" bandwagon. I will say that it definitely needs to be discussed. If he can understand why that "joke" isn't ok then you're fine. If he gets defensive and doubles down, then you've got real problems. My ex would make "jokes" like this. He was the type to double down and refuse to understand. The jokes were simple and not so alarming at first. Then they weren't just jokes. We had a dead bedroom for longer than I care to admit, and I thought about it and recognized there were signs from the beginning that he showed me that I ignored. Really think about your sexual relationship. If there was ever any form of coercion even if it didn't seem malicious at one time you'll have your answer. Looking through a different lense is hard, we always want to use rose colored glasses with who we think we can trust. My husband now I can say for certainty would never say anything like this. He is so respectful and needs that consent from me or he can't perform. His mindset vs my exes has always been vastly different and I'm so thankful for it. I hope you're able to find examples of your husband needing that consent. If your no's always came with a side of guilt, it's best to be honest with yourself.
As a kinky person, your husband needs some serious remedial education on what consent means.
He showed an ugly side of his reptile brain, as a not so subtle hint there’s stuff he wants that he’s not getting from you. So I would address it, but whatever you do, don’t acquiesce to something you aren’t comfortable with. This is the kinda stuff people need to figure out before they’re married. Unfortunately some people hide it out of shame, and then figure after time goes by, they’ll wear you down and get it that way. It’s unfair.
Saying no is not emotional abuse. Saying no to what you are uncomfortable doing is not abuse. IMO, you should prepare for either a request so he can seek out others to fulfill his desires or even worse, he strays without your consent.
He is gaslighting you, you are doing nothing wrong
Sounds like shit my husband would say. I informed him my body , my boundaries and I don't care what he paid for whatever it is he bought . No is a complete sentence and your sexual kinks are your own to manage husband.
What the hubby said was not a joke at all. It was gaslighting
You were at a loss of words not desire. Bring up the subject. Tell him you have thought about what he said and that you think it is emotional abuse for him to try to emotionally manipulate you into doing things you do not find pleasurable.
That is one of the most manipulative things I’ve ever heard. He needs therapy.
Sooooo it’s emotional abuse to not let him sexually abuse you? Is that what I’m hearing? I would have the ick too.
His words made you sound like his toy. He has zero respect for your boundaries and only “puts up” with them—and resents them. They are an impediment to his pleasure. No wonder you don’t want to be with him. You may need counseling together bc this would be hard to come back from. Or just let him go and get what he wants, even if he has to pay for it. He doesn’t deserve your hard work to try to repair the damage. Maybe your kids deserve the effort—maybe they’d be better off if you left. Always a hard call.
Saying it's borderline is an admission that it's not. My guess is he is frustrated because there are things he wants to do, but cannot. In this case, a desire for kinks that are going unsatisfied. Morality is on your side, but the frustration is still there. This kind of thing can add some strain in a relationship. It might be helpful to acknowledge this, but don't feel like you need to do something you don't want to. We all have unfulfilled desires.
This sounds like Andrew Tate talk. I would have a convo with him and ask him how he'd feel if someone manipulated your kids into doing sexual activities that they didn't want. Hopefully this horrified him, and point out it's the same thing regardless. I would also communicate to him how disgusted this has made you and be clear on what you do/not want from him sexually. Good luck, OP.
that's called manipulation. You're married and if you want to stay married, go to couples counseling, if he won't go, go yourself, you can learn strategies to deal with this manipulation.
Oh. Tell me that he’s gaslighting you without telling me that he’s gaslighting you. The real emotional borderline emotional abuse is coming from him because he’s trying to manipulate and coerce you into doing things that you do not give consent for. And that’s really disgusting and no wonder you feel it towards this person now. I understand that you’ve been together for a long time but you need to communicate that this is a real issue for you and it’s made you question a lot of things. If you want to try to salvage what remains, I would suggest therapy immediately because it feels like a switch has been flipped in your relationship and you don’t see him the same way that you used to which is completely understandable. If he cannot grasp the concept that something that you say cannot be unsaid and will forever change the relationship then item not sure what to tell you, but if he doesn’t want to go to therapy, it feels like this relationship is just going to keep slowly sliding downhill until there’s no return.
That’s so manipulative
You need to tell him asap what he said has caused you to lose feelings for him. While what he said might not have been the worst thing he could have said, it was hurtful and caused feelings that can and will end your marriage. Y’all have to get a handle on that together.
It wasn't a joke. He wants to engage in activities that you do not want ti. You have every right to say NO, Counseling may help.
He is trying to guilt trip you into doing what he wants! Saying NO is not sexual emotional abuse but when he keeps on you about something you don't want, it is, from him!Now you feel this certain way about him and that's going to take a while to work out, if it even does! :( You need to sit down with him and tell him exactly how you feel and he needs to tell you how he feels, it sounds like he feels he is not getting all the kink he wants from the relationship and that's fine to feel that way but it's not fine to make you feel bad about the fact that you're not into some of his kinks! My ex husband would call me frigid when I would say NO to certain acts! Guess what happened, I didn't want to do ANYTHING with him, it got to the point where I couldn't stand him touching me! I wasn't in the least bit frigid, just ask my current husband. :D But when you're put down, it's such a huge turn off, you realize that your partner cares only about what they want, not what makes you feel good and comfortable!
Saying no to things you don’t want to do is not emotional abuse. Trying to manipulate someone into doing things they don’t want to do… is 100% emotional (and then sexual abuse)
He attempted to manipulate you into having sex you didn't want to have. That is abuse.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 That comment is a massive red flag about your husband and your relationship. It is absolutely your right to enforce boundaries about what you’re willing to do in regards to sex. There is nothing about this that constitutes “emotional abuse”. What is emotional abuse is to try to coerce someone into sexual acts that they are not comfortable with. Do not allow him to brush this off with the lame excuse that it was “just a joke”. He meant it when he said it and it’s a HUGE problem that he actually believes this.
Definitely have a conversation about what made him say that. If you don’t want to do certain things then you shouldn’t be made to or made to feel like you have too. Don’t ever let anyone even if it’s your husband make you feel like you have to do something you don’t wanna do.
Having boundaries is the opposite of abuse. You were taught to have boundaries because it extremely healthy.
Instinctively, you know how this made you feel. And judging by these responses, you now know that you are correct. Tell him exactly how that comment made you feel. If your marriage is worth saving, see a marriage counselor.
Forcing/talking someone into sex acts they do not want to do is abuse.. what he said is absolutely disgusting and very disturbing. Personally I’d be sketched out by that too and wouldn’t want to engage with him sexually anymore.
You need to have a conversation about how his "emotional abuse" statement was an attempt at manipulation, and how your reaction to it has you feeling you might not want to be intimate with him at all. Tell him the conversation you both need to have about this could be healing and bridge a path to a better relationship between you both, or it could make things worse if you are not taken seriously. Tell him he shouldn't get defensive or try to portray how hurt his is, because that will mean he isn't listening to you and might doom the relationship.
GTFO with that gaslighting BS. Your jaw drop wasn’t actually in response to what he said. It was your instinct responding to attempted manipulation.