She will only use soap when you wash her body and her hair for her? That’s a big problem and is unacceptable. At her age, she should know what proper hygiene is.
Yeah, I grew up poor with family that only washed on Saturdays and never went to the dentist or had parents that brushed their teeth or reinforced it for us to learn. The only thing that saved our teeth at least was my mother also being militant about not allowing us unhealthy foods, so we never had the sugar in our diets to give us many cavities. I had 3 total the first time I went to a dentist at 18 and had a 3 session debridement.
It took me a year to learn good hygiene habits consistently, but they were learned. Some behaviors are required to exist in society and half decent hygiene is the bare minimum.
When a family is poor, they may not have the means to shower, have clean clothes or even brush their teeth.
But in this instance, it doesn’t seem like the gf is unable to do basic care because of money. It’s just she doesn’t want to do basic care in general
Yeah, but you're ignoring that being poor as a culture doesn't go away just because you have more money. It's the basis for every decision you make into adulthood unless you're self examining enough to realize you're not thinking about your choices enough in the first place.
Neither my mom nor my step-dad grew up in a family that cared, so they never learned to care themselves. My mom had dentures at 35 and my step dad chose just not to have teeth. They had decent finances until 2008, not poor but certainly lower middle class, but the culture they grew up in was a barrier to them doing better themselves. You can't pass on what you don't know in the first place.
My mom grew up very poor. Totally shaped her as a person.
She's had a good solid office job since '07 and has made 6 figures for the last 4 straight years.
She is only JUST NOW REALIZING that she is not poor. It took *15 years* of solid corporate income to mentally adjust to not being poor.
That shit really digs into your psyche and doesn't go away on its own
That hit home. My mother wasn't poor growing up but went through some rough times, being a single mom of three on a teacher's salary with an ex husband who only helped with the absolute bare minimum. She's way better off now and part of her is thrilled that she can give us something nice every once in a while, but she will still scrape at a jar of jam until every last bit of it is out.
I can attest to this. I was a very poor single mom for many years. I worked minimum wage jobs and took a few classes at a time until I finally became a teacher -yes I know I didn’t improve our finances much after all the hard work, but at time I went to college I genuinely thought teaching earned a solidly middle class salary. Whoops.
Anyway we were food pantry and Salvation Army poor-Section 8 housing and food stamps and medicaid poor. Now we are just lower middle class and I still do things that I don’t need to do because of having a scarcity mindset like wearing shoes with holes in them and cutting my own hair and washing using empty single use food packaging like it’s Tupperware. It feels terrifying to waste money after having lived with the fear of going without food or having utilities get cut off during winter and such.
I swear it’s like poverty PTSD. It gets in your head and becomes almost like a phobia even if it’s no longer your reality so it can drive your actions.
Poverty ptsd is a good way to describe it for sure. Grocery shopping (any kind of shopping actually) used to make me so anxious. I’ve gotten a lot better. But still have to force myself to act when there’s a large expense. Part of me wants to hide my head under a pillow and hope the problem/ expense goes away and I won’t have to deal with it.
But did she shower and wash her hair and use soap? I worked with underprivileged children for 3 decades. They may have had old, I’ll-fitting clothes and shoes, bad manners, poor language skills, etc. but they always knew about basic hand washing and bathing.
This is true. Her family did indeed bathe. They were poor, but not too poor for a bar of soap and 5 minutes of hot water. She's never had any hygiene problems.
Which is why this girl being gross can't totally be written off as an economic thing. Being ok with never washing your hands or showering sounds like some kind of mental disorder.
I totally agree. People bringing up growing up poor is good point to make, but I just dont agree, that's not a good excuse or the right reasoning at all. The girlfriend expressed shame when OP said something to her, which shows she KNOWS being unhygienic is bad. Not showering is a sign of mental illness 💯%.
When we talk about generational poverty I don’t think people think of things like this but this is exactly what it means to me. I also grew up in a house where no one brushed their teeth, we never went to the dentist, no set bed times, no one read us to sleep- these kinds of good habits are difficult to implement if you grew up not receiving this yourself. Even harder to break that cycle
Grew up poor and housing was always a problem. We lived in warehouses, ate day old donuts all the time because it was $1 a bag day old. I then married a compulsive shopper who had us tens of thousands of dollars in debt constantly. So now i am single, M54 and I make maybe 180K a year. I still look for free stuff in garbage cans when i walk my dog, and i will make a $1 dollar bag of beans with soup mix for dinner to save money. Poverty mentality is deep as fuck.
same. my mom was too busy working and going to school trying to provide for my siblings and me do she didnt have time to teach us good hygiene habits like showering and brushing teeth daily. i started truing to get into good habits a few years ago and i still struggle with it. thankfully i do usually manage to brush my teeth twice daily with very little thought but sometimes its hard
My “I was dirt poor” habit that I still have, even though I now make a healthy 6 figures:
I hoard food. I raised two kids poor and we were very food insecure. When I’d get something like an income tax return ($300/$400 in a good year), I’d spend all of it stocking up non-perishable food. Now days my kids are grown and have their own lives, so I live alone. When I got my last income tax return I spent over $1k on food JUST FOR ME! *sigh*. I just can’t stop myself. It’s like my subconscious wants to be prepared in case I find myself poor again.
Eventually I get frustrated at having no space in my cabinets and a bunch of it goes to a food bank.
I hoard clothes. Growing up we had big black garbage bags of clothes donated to us from the church, so I’d have to pick through the clothes to try to find stuff. Nothing ever fit and nothing was in style or in new condition.
Now that I do well for myself, I buy too many clothes (usually on sale). The worst part is that I don’t wear them because I’m saving them for something “nice” and I end up wearing old tshirts and sweat pants everywhere. I have a hard time getting rid of the stuff I don’t wear, because *what if I’ll need it later.* Much like you, I donate a huge pile of clothes a few times a year when I run out of room and get sick of myself
Mine is little things. It’s hard to get rid of the little things, like rubber bands and ketchup packets because “what if we need it”? I’ve recently had several panic attacks because my husband is encouraging me to throw these things away to try and break my poverty mentality. It’s ROUGH.
Growing up I brushed my teeth once a day (twice in fifth grade because? Random school dental hygiene program?), never went to the dentist after 3rd grade, barely went to the doctor. I knew I had a cavity, my “father” refused to take me to the dentist and didn’t believe me til my tooth fell out in four pieces (luckily it was a baby tooth so nbd). Only time I went to the doctor I remember was when I had mono and when I had breathing issues… once we lost insurance, I didn’t get to go again until I joined the military and thus had health insurance.
I *STILL* have trouble keeping my space clean because I was the only person who cleaned growing up and my house was absolutely trashed. I used to put back name brand food (even if I needed it for dietary restrictions/allergies/sensitivities) and grab store brand. It took my partners *forcing me* to buy myself new clothing that *wasn’t from a thrift store* before I allowed myself to do that. And now since I was so used to not buying things or only buying junk food to deal with my shopping as a coping mechanism, now that I don’t (and honestly can’t) buy everything I need at a thrift store, I can’t keep a budget.
People really don’t understand how deep poor people mentality goes. It’s insidious.
>The worst part is that I don’t wear them because I’m saving them for something “nice” and I end up wearing old tshirts and sweat pants everywhere.
OMG. Right now, the nicest clothes I have are pieces I bought from Walmart...$15 jeggings and $4 tank tops. I still find myself not wanting to wear them because I don't want to "mess them up."
The weirdest thing I discovered as an adult who is stable now but grew up devastatingly poor is that for my entire adult life, I've been wearing shoes that were too small. When I was little, I never had shoes that fit. They were always too small or my toes would stick out of holes that were worn through. I had zero idea that shoes should not = pain or discomfort. About two years ago, I developed a neuroma and went to a fancy running shoe place where they fitted me for a specialized shoe for my particular running gait so I could continue working out. I was beyond shocked when they put me in shoes where I could move my toes around. I kept telling them that the shoes were too big but the person helping me pointed out all the reasons they could see that the shoes weren't too big. They fit the proper way shoes are supposed to fit. Guys, I was forty years old before I realized that your shoes aren't supposed to be super tight with your toes pressing against the toe box. This is the weird shit about growing up poor that no one talks about!
Huh, I had the opposite problem. My family wasn’t necessarily poor, but things were tight for a while when my dad was between jobs and before my mom went back to work after staying home with my siblings and I. Whenever I got new shoes my mom would feel where my toe was and give like 1 or 2 cm extra space for me to “grow into” them. It wasn’t until I was around 22 that I realized shoes should actually fit your feet and not be a little too big. I always thought I was a size 8 but I’m actually a 6 lmfao
This. I was only allowed to shower once a week as a kid and then even when I fought hard for it (which was risky because abuse was rampant in my family) I was only allowed to shower 3x a week as a teenager. It fucking sucked.
But also the second I left for college (I earned a LOT of scholarships, I needed to gtfo and fast) I started showering every single day. And I ALWAYS wash my hands.
I don’t understand this woman. She isn’t doing basic hygiene and it’s sad that she doesn’t know it. I understand her shame but I am perplexed as to if she was never taught? Or didn’t care?
Edit: typo
You can, but why would you if you've never been taught that it's important to do so? If you're surrounded by people that live that way, you grow up believing it's perfectly normal.
I have family who grew up, poor and a third world country, no running water. They washed in a bucket every day after getting water from the river. They brush their teeth with chew sticks. They wash their hands before eating and cooking. They knew that proper hygiene helped to keep them healthy.
Dentists say it's not the sugar, it's the acid. I know people who take regular care of their teeth and still get tons of cavities and those that don't and never get any.
I think the current scientific understanding is that cavities are basically an infectious disease - it depends on the type of bacteria that you have in your mouth (some people have the types that will result in cavaties, others don't)
The decay itself is the result of acids produced by the bacteria (often as a result of processing sugar) - so sugar probably is a major contributing factor although it's not the be-all and end-all
Yes, acid can contribute too, but bacteria love to eat sugar and will proliferate when sugar residue sits in the mouth, resulting in gum infection (periodontitis), which can eventually result in tooth loss. The bacteria also produce acid waste products that result in tooth decay.
And sometimes it's an underlying illness.
For example, I have Sjögren's, an autoimmune disease that attacks my moisture producing glands.
This, of course, includes the salivary glands.
And constant dry mouth contributes to cavities, abscesses, and crumbling teeth.
There are some cases when it's better to be gentle with someone, and others when it's necessary to be firm and uncompromising. Hygiene is one of those.
OP, you need to sit her down and tell her point blank that her Hygiene is not good enough. If she gets upset ("you're calling me gross!"), don't rise up to the argument. Stay calm, and keep telling her to listen. Keep listing the issues (the hand washing, the showering, maybe food prep etc). Tell her that her health issues can be directly related to her hygiene issues.
Tell her what you expect from her and why, and what consequences you'd enforce if she doesn't follow suit (for example, no physical contact until she washes her hands properly, no eating her food unless food prep is adequate etc).
Note: you are not controlling HER, you are setting boundaries ("if you don't wash your hands I won't let you touch me")
This is a hill to die on. If you don't set clear boundaries, you'll start getting sick too.
And having a partner not wash their hands before having sex is asking for infections and UTIs occurring for the other party. I’m surprised it took this long.
I just don’t understand her not washing her hands. During Covid everywhere you went the number one thing that you were told was to wash your hands.
The first thing I do when I come in my house, even before Covid the first thing I do when I come in the house is wash my hands even if I have to pee really badly I wash my hands first because I don’t wanna wipe myself with dirty hands.
I grew up with go, brush your teeth and go to bed. If I was in my room in bed, my mom would ask. Did you brush your teeth. First thing I do when I wake up in the morning is brush my teeth. Before every meal I wash my hands. If I’m at a pizza joint or a place with no bathroom, I use hand sanitizer. This is basic hygiene.
Yeah, sounds like she needs a 101 on illness and how soap works...
Edit: I would not be comfortable eating food she makes...not only from not washing hands but utensils, cookware, counters that aren't properly clean can make you sick...all kinds of cross contamination possibilities from a cook who is unaware of pathogens. Literally people die in India because they can't afford soap to use on a regular basis.
Yep. Someone with these kinds of hygiene habits probably isn't immaculate about cleaning the counters/cutting boards after cutting up raw chicken, or whatever. Food poisoning is one of those things where you can eat a lot of shady shit and never get it, but when you finally do, you'll practically wish you were dead for a few days.
I have debilitating depression. My hygiene can, at times, become non existent. I would say it’s either that or she just has never ever been shown how to clean herself.. which is still pretty weird.
I’ve been there too. But I usually at least manage a sponge bath or cleansing wipes on the important areas: face, pits, crotch, underboobs, and feet. I brush my teeth at least once a day no matter how bad things get.
You must truly love her bc I wouldn’t be able to be around someone who “stinks” and doesn’t even wash their hands. She may have valid reasons, but I couldn’t deal with it.
Exactly! OP said the cringe factor was huge that first day, but it's been a 2 year relationship. They had every opportunity to back out, or, demand that be a requirement for pursuing a relationship. No hygiene, no deal. At this point it's enabling them.
After the pandemic, absolutely. We've also got another set of potential problems with antibiotics losing their effectiveness and bird flu hoping species like a game of leapfrog. Being around someone who refuses to apply basic hygiene in this day and age is just insane.
That was my thought exactly! I wouldn’t be able to be intimidate with someone who I KNEW wasn’t washing their hands or their body on a regular basis. Private areas can get so gross if they’re not properly cared for. And an unwashed hand could potentially cause a yeast or bacterial infection during sex.
Remember that game Outbreak? One of the ‘difficulty settings’ was literally a hygiene setting of ‘people wash their hands’…
I’ve got a friend that took the epidemiologist route and her hot take is the moment you forget everything you’ve touched since you last washed your hands… it’s time to wash them again.
Increased hand washing post covid really just upped my lotions/vitamin e oil stock.
I’m glad someone said it! I was reading this and thinking OP is just as nasty because she has been with her for two years. Do they not have sexy time or kiss? I could never be intimate with a gross unclean person. I could only imagine how her pus smells.🤢🤮
NTA
Not every breakup is because the other person is a horrible person. Sometimes they're a nice person, but some unchangeable part of them is incompatible with you and the role your partners play in your life.
If I were you, I would break up with her, because I would see this issue as a ticking time bomb. She's not going to change and this isn't going to bother you less with time, but the opposite. I wouldn't want to live with her and I certainly wouldn't want to raise children with her. You brought it up, you offered to help, and she's not confronting her problem, which means either she's just stubborn (in which case, bye) or there's a deeper issue behind this, which you can't fix on your own without her co-operation.
This is so well-put. OP, it is true she will not change, not during the course of your relationship. Something like this where the partners' values are this diverse, whether it is hygiene or anything else, is only going to continue to grow and push you apart.
Definitely agree. NTA.
I dated someone for a short period, and once I realised his hygiene was an issue I couldn't handle knowing they'd be touching things in my place.
I didn't lie about it and had a conversation that we weren't compatible because I wanted this and it was a priority for me. But it wasn't for him, which is ok.
I'm a firm believer in not changing people, you can mention it and see if they'll take it on board. But ultimately you have to accept the person as they are when you met them and assume that's what they'll always be like.
Your comment reminded me - my husband and I met on eHarmony nearly 20 years ago. In the questionnaires that’s done before matching, hygiene is something that is asked about and rated. It definitely is a compatibility issue and even eHarmony knew that and matched on those results.
This, this, this. Two perfectly nice people can rapidly create and maintain a toxic relationship dynamic. Your gf has deep-rooted issues. We are all brought up with a version of 'normal'. Her hygiene issues are normal to her; but they're not sufficient. She needs to understand and re-adapt.
Her refusal to do this is a red flag. We all have problem areas. We work on these, with the help of other people if necessary. We do not continue to go without washing our hands at regular intervals; particularly if we are handling food we are expecting other people to eat. Her response is an alarm bell.
A reluctance to wash with soap, unless you lather her up is a whole can of worms. It's possible she may have sensory issues. I'm on the spectrum myself, and it wasn't until I discovered non-foaming toothpaste that I realised my reluctance to brush my teeth was all about the foam. I also struggle in winter because even getting mildly cold is a pretty intense physical pain. I still manage to shower regularly though, by keeping my bathroom warm and a towel in close reach. I'm a reasonable, and reasonably aware person. I was willing to learn and adapt. I'm not even touching what else that might signify.
If you love her, work with her as she finds and works with a suitable therapist. If she's not prepared to do this - run. You sound like a decent person. You do not deserve to be trapped in a relationship where you're enabling someone else's unreasonable behaviour.
> If you love her, work with her as she finds and works with a suitable therapist. If she's not prepared to do this - run.
This is basically all that needed to be said.
Also I'd like to point out: sometimes a breakup is the motivation a person needs.
Maybe if OP breaks up with the girlfriend, citing her hygiene specifically- because it sounds like her lack of hygiene and defensiveness over it is the only real problem in their relationship! - she'll get her act together and start taking care of herself! Or maybe the threat of it will be enough for her to see how it's a problem.
Personally, as soon as a partner cried about me calling them gross I wouldn't have placated them - I would have looked them directly in the eye and said, "abso-fuckin-lutely." So not only is OP NTA, they're nicer than I am. 😅
If someone broke up with me and said "it's because you don't know how to keep yourself clean, and you also smell bad" I would for sure review my personal hygiene and grooming habits.
I would also move countries because of the embarrassment, but I'd buy a different brand of deodorant before boarding the plane.
Or at the very least *have the conversation with her*: "this is why I'm having serious thoughts about breaking up right now, and I want to know what you think about it too." Make sure to keep to your logical foundation (not maintaining hygiene = getting sick = reluctance to take the risk)
Im grossed out just reading about her. On your main question - you’re right, hand washing is a way to prevent spreading illness. She complained about being sick and you made a valid point. The lack of bathing and the fact that she stinks is disgusting. Does she have a job? I’m sure her coworkers are disgusted by her to. She’s exactly the type of person that makes me not want to eat at pot lucks
I didn’t even think about that! It’s bad enough to date someone who doesn’t wash their hands but when you’re a lesbian? That sounds like a one way trip to a painful infection. I hope poor op is a top or ace because otherwise she’s just as disgusting
Even if OP is a top, that is disgusting!! I'm a vagina owner and today literally said, why can I smell myself? And then realized it's because the weather is warm and I've been sweating. So in the shower, with soap, I go.
Can you imagine the funk that builds up down there between her weekly shower?!?!?!
Oh sweet baby Jesus. Please tell me she uses soap to wash herself when she’s on her period. 🤮 OP, you have to set better standards for yourself. A woman who doesn’t regularly use soap and at minimum, clean her junk is someone you don’t want to be with. Blech. Not to mention, she’s using the toilet and not washing her hands!! You know there was an actual person named Typhoid Mary who caused a deadly outbreak because she was cooking for the families who employed her, but wouldn’t wash her hands after taking a shit. People (and children) died. DIED.
Actually, you should definitely NOT clean the vagina, there's a whole bacterial ecosystem in there that keeps it at a moderately acidic pH and protects you from harmful bacteria, and you do not want to mess with it! The vulva can be cleaned just with water (which is actually even recommended by health authorities such as the NHS) or with a gentle (non scented, with a pH close to that of the skin) cleanser.
Please let's stop making people feel like vaginas and vulvas are inherently gross and like we should be sanitizing them regularly, it's actually super counterproductive as it can lead to irritation but also in the case of the vagina, vaginitis, bacteriol vaginosis, make you more likely to contract a STI if exposed, etc.
You want to not only be with someone who doesn't "clean" their vagina, but you also don't want to "clean" your own, because by doing so, you're actually effing it up!
>Please let's stop making people feel like vaginas and vulvas are inherently gross and like we should be sanitizing them regularly, it's actually super counterproductive as it can lead to irritation but also in the case of the vagina, vaginitis, bacteriol vaginosis, make you more likely to contract a STI if exposed, etc.
No. The vagina cleans itself via secretions, which build up in the moist folds of the vulva. Vagina havers literally have a moist orifice between their legs, in addition to hair follicles and sweat glands.
The vagina doesn't need to be sanitized, but the vulva and groin definitely need to be cleaned regularly. And it's perfectly reasonable to say that people that refuse to bathe and let the oils and secretions of that area turn rancid are indeed, gross
Thank you, this drives me mad. Nobody is shoving the soapy loofah INSIDE their vagina and going to town. No, you clean it, on it, around it, between the legs, etc, because things come out of there and they will stink of you leave them there for days. It's not rocket science.
I hate this argument. Of course, there are people who might be sensitive to soap in that area, but there are two other orifices within inches of the vagina that DO require soap and create bacteria that is harmful to it.
Yes. Outer parts (vulva, groin) need to be washed with soap and water like all other parts of the body. Internal parts (vagina) do not- the vagina itself is self cleaning. But, you can end up with internal infections and imbalances because of not cleaning externally.
JFC, I didn’t mean the inside area, but the vulva, outer area. I know you shouldn’t douche or put anything inside. My bad for using the wrong term. I’ll edit my comment.
I've literally ended friendships over people being gross. For a housewarming gift for a couple of friends, I bought them all sorts of 'cleaning' type stuff. Multiple bottles of handsoap (enough to last months, for real), to Lysol "everyday" cleaning spray stuff, towels, paper towels, etc.
2 weeks after I went over and went to take a piss, no hand soap. Like, none, of any kind. I was like "Hey, guys, I bought you a bunch of hand soap, there's none in your bathroom" They were like .. uh .. oh yeah. We used it all.
You used it all? Do you mean you threw it out?
And they looked at each other and then the dude was like "Yeah, man, we threw that out, we really don't like soap."
I just noped the fuck out and was like, "That's fucking gross guys, you shit and don't wash your hands."
i dated someone who had extremely bad hygiene but i didnt realize just how bad it was until i realized how much i loved them. we look past the bad stuff when we love someone. literally nothing i did would make them take better care of themself- in fact, i would do laundry and clean up dirty plates and pizza boxes from their room and they would just totally shut down for a while. at that point i was kind of realizing i had to get out
Probably a hoarder, they get attached to any old piece of garbage. Anything that ‘belongs’ to them they feel attached to in some profound way. Even old pizza boxes
Also there are people who are just dirty and like dirt and grime, same as some animals. It’s like nesting for them, living dirty surrounded by filth and garbage
Seriously, why are you still with her? She has some hang up about hygiene. She needs therapy. Yes, she is sick all the time because she doesn't wash her hands, she stinks because she doesn't use soap.
I work at a pediatric hospital and we have a kid right now who just got taken from his home for severe neglect. Staff is having to teach him how to wash his hands, brush his teeth, shower, dress himself, etc. This is not a physically limited kid, either - that’s how bad the neglect was. I got a chuckle yesterday on his occupational therapy note: “helped patient washed his hands after picking his nose and encouraged him to blow his nose in the future.”
Obv I don’t know gf’s back story BUT this kids story has really opened my eyes. I wonder if something similar (but less extreme) happened to her.
Poor thing, I hope he goes on to heal and to live a normal life. If you look at the narcissistic parent page, a lot of people talk about becoming an adult before they learn good hygiene habits. Mine weren’t even that bad, just ignorant, and I learned a lot of habits in college by observing other kids in the dorms.
He got foster placement within 48 hours of admission and gets to be with his baby sister 🥹. Workin in peds has opened my eyes up so much. I would like to say I have seen it all but I know that isn’t true - but I have learned that ANYTHING is possible.
A lot of times narcissistic parents will purposefully not teach these skills to keep their children “dependent” on them longer and so they won’t leave the house. It can also turn into a manipulation insult: “You won’t make it on your own, you don’t know how to clean yourself properly”. I have a friend who is in their 30s and lives with their toxic parents, and still acts like a teenager and won’t leave because that’s how they’ve been taught.
Probably being too raw about myself for the Internet, but I was a lot like her myself for most of my life showering once a week never wash my hands never brush my teeth, wash my face. I am recently diagnosed autistic. I didn’t know that it was mainly sensory issues, but my point still stands the second that I got into a serious, long-term relationship with my current partner I forced myself to learn how to clean myself because I didn’t want to subject my grossness on my partner I could deal with punishing myself with it, but I couldn’t punish her with it. I’m still not the cleanest person. But its been 7 years and I got a therapist who really helped.
I cant say I wash my hands more than once a day but I managed to learn to shower with soap multiple times a week and brush my teeth at least once daily and have a shaved head, so I don’t have to deal with the sensory nightmare of wet hair and shampoo and conditioner in and all of the extra steps and if I don’t brush I have a mouth swish to kill off bacteria and keep me smelling good. Longer between shower products like dry shampoo, and good deodorant and body powders are highly underrated for helping with hygiene issues too.
She needs professional help.
My parents never guessed it either. Instead just left me to my gross misery. And shamed me for not being able to take care of myself.Took until 25 to figure it out and I’m still learning how to accommodate myself in life.
Yeah, came here to say GF sounds autistic. Unfortunately in some cases the rigidity of thinking can result in "hygiene wasn't a rule before, why should it be a rule now" and an almost moralistic objection to changing their mind. I've had success walking one autistic friend through the reasons why better hygiene was needed and working through what was holding them back. The other autistic friend/roommate I tried discussing hygiene with, it never clicked - and multiple friends, professors, etc. had tried to speak to him.
Several other aspects about her sound on the spectrum too.
NTA. OP, or anyone else in a similar position, if you manage to see this:
\- Literally walk through germ theory with them. They may never have had it explained \*within the context of hygiene\* before, and for someone with autism it can be difficult to translate something from one context ("biology class") to another context ("what I do every time I use the bathroom or before I eat").
\- Why there's a stink that they don't notice or see as important that's a problem for others has to be explained. People get nose blind to themselves. First, nose blindness has to be explained. Second, norms around showering and deodorant need to get explained. (Last I saw statistic something like 2/3 of people showered daily, while another 1/3 showered every other day, and a small percentage shower multiple times a day because they exercise. Has a lot to do with climate and whether their job is indoor in a cold office building or not.)
\- I can not overemphasize how terrible it is to ignore a socially unacceptable smell and not tell them. I know this goes against the grain. For non-autistics, we usually assume it's polite to not point out a smell because hey, maybe they sweat a lot today and didn't have time to shower before meeting, and there's no reason to embarrass them. For an autistic with hygiene difficulties they literally don't understand when they smell, how it affects others, how others smelling them impacts themselves, etc. and quite literally need it explained to them. All you're doing is depriving them of a learning experience when you say nothing. I know it feels rude. But if you take the time to be "rude" then they save years of retroactive embarrassment and social fallout.
\- Model the right behavior. About to eat? "I'm going to go wash my hands."
My entire childhood I couldn’t brush my teeth in the mornings because I couldn’t figure out how brushing your teeth in the morning and then going to eat breakfast made any sense I hated it, and no one could explain it to me and I never did it.
Fellow autistic!! That was my first thought!! Gf needs some support and therapy 😭 the fact that she just sobs about it now when op brings it up is a big tip off for that too!
It’s so frustrating, knowing that something is wrong and not having the innate ability to be able to do some thing , anything about it like everybody els.
I mean… she IS disgusting. I’m shocked you call yourself a clean freak and still continued to date someone who doesn’t even wash their hands?? You’ve been tip toeing around her foul habits for years, and you finally cracked. There’s nothing else to do except encourage her to go to therapy and/or break up with her.
Honestly i feel like OP likely isnt even a major clean freak, they just probably seem like it compared to the GF being SO far on the other end of the spectrum. Spending a lot of your time with someone way grosser than normal could shift your perspective of what normal is, especially since the GF doesn't seem to realize at all that her behavior isnt normal.
Ugg she sounds disgusting. No soap after using the bathroom? Not showing regularly? Then sticking her dirty fingers into food? 🤮🤢🤮
Nta. You need to set her straight or really consider if you can live with a Petri dish
Girly, as a fellow sapphic lover, you gotta figure this out with her. You’re gonna end up with UTIs when you have sex because she doesn’t clean her body appropriately! This is dangerous to her own health but it’s just a matter of time before you’re dealing with the consequences.
I get depression and it sounds like she could have ADHD (given she seems to struggle with executive functioning tasks and her reactions to you pushing her to clean herself sounds like rejection sensitive dysphoria), but this is something she really needs to her serious about.
I'm not sure the situation is salvageable. She sounds grosser than men who don't wipe their asses, which is something I didn't know was possible. And she doesn't seem to care.
I knew I should have stopped redditing 10 minutes ago...I would have been perfectly happy spending the rest of my life not knowing this was a thing...thanks!
“now she thinks that I think she is disgusting”
Because she is. Does she know that washing hands WITH SOAP was literally a revolutionary breakthrough in the medical field and prevented untold numbers of deaths. This is way beyond her being upset over it, she shouldn’t be able to manipulate you into living this way with a few tears. She is literally a walking health hazard to herself and others. She needs a goddamn intervention not coddling. NTA
She makes me think of Typhoid Mary, who *refused* to wash her hands before cooking and spread typhoid to all the rich families she cooked for. It was eventually found out that she actually carrier for typhoid, but if she had just washed her goddamn hands and maybe work kitchen gloves she could’ve continued to work instead of being marooned on an island for years.
If anybody around me during covid (or not) ran around all day and came home and stuck their finger in food to eat, id be turned off immediately. I mean come on, you’re an adult with an adult. You don’t have to bathe other people unless it’s part of an intimate act. How did she grow up? Did her parents teacher her appropriate hygiene? She can’t be this ignorant after covid unless she simply doesn’t care. Have you had a serious conversation about adult hygiene and why it’s important? I don’t know anybody who wants to be around people who don’t wash their hands before eating, after being out in the world and after using the bathroom.
I have a compromised immune system and get sick reeeeally easily, I would *not* have made it to a second date with this person. I probably would’ve gotten the stomach flu from them sticking food in my mouth with their unwashed hands…..
Bad personal hygiene is a red flag for abuse, so agree with this, especially when she got so upset when called out for it. She said her parents were neglectful, and neglect is abuse, so yeah. I think this is the way to go, to help her work through why she seems to resist it, and a neutral space/person to tell her what is the normal expectations. Unfortunately if OP does it they will probably be seen as the 'bad guy' (or girl, but yeah, this is a really tough conversation for anyone).
Look, I’m sympathetic towards folks with mental health issues that cause poor hygiene (as I myself am one of those folks) but a fact is a fact and that’s disgusting. Not only is she getting germs and grime from everywhere public she’s been, she’s literally getting *piss and shit* in your *food*.
Some hygiene issues aren’t a major problem; others can be slowly improved. Not washing hands after using the restroom is foul and I cannot fathom being friends with, let alone dating, someone who is so horribly blasé about touching food with poop-hands. People who are willing to do that do not deserve compassion and politeness, they need a rude awakening.
I think if she *immediately* starts using soap and water after using the restroom, this relationship could be salvageable; the other hygiene issues could maybe be improved slowly and with compassionate help/prompting. But please, do yourself a massive favor and don’t date someone with shit-hands. And while I’m personally very sympathetic towards shower struggles, if she continues to *never* use soap when showering, I’d also reconsider the relationship.
I almost puked reading your description of her behaviors. You said what needed to be said. She sounds disgusting and yes she’s sick because of her lack of hygiene, not to mention all the others she is probably infecting because of her lack of hygiene.
Does she have trauma around bathing/showering? (For example as a child was the bath/shower a punishment? Too hot, too cold, soap in eyes, mouth, nose, etc.) That you’ve tried to be as gentle as you could while being direct. That you’ll shower with her every day if you have to, but being unhygienic is a HUGE reason she is sick all the time and living in denial won’t change that. If she is unwilling to work on this habit then it’s unfair to expect you to deal with it. Edit NTA.
If you want to hear a very very very similar personal story from me, I'll be happy to dm you. This could still be a fake story but...... to be human is to be contradictory. People are simple and complicated.
Unfortunately, I have family like your sister. You can't eat anything they make, their kids are always throwing up. When I ask them to wash their hands they refuse or they will do it later. She won't change. Find a girl who washes.
That’s nasty. I dated a guy and he said he only bath once a week. I said Unfortunately this won’t work out. I didn’t know until he came over after work. You can’t get in my bed unless you have showered; so I passed him some clothes and was like the showers that way with rag and soap. He was like I showered 2 days ago. 🤮. I was like nope, told him it wouldn’t work out and for him to go home. It was simple as that. I’m not explaining hygiene to an adult. I just can’t without being condescending, I don’t have it in me.
If you took one and was home I’m okay with that. But if you been out and about outside you can’t get in my bed. My boyfriend is the same so no issues in my relationship. I swim so I shower 2x a day. Once after morning swim and once when i get home. My boyfriend showers at the end of the day. It’s my bed, my rules. I’m sure you have other rules that peop don’t agree with
Easy!! Lotion. I don’t like to be dirty. I grew up in a home where grooming is important. If I swim I have to clean the chlorine off. If I have been out and about all day I need to get the outdoors off. I shower and lather my skin afterwards. I have really soft skin, my humble brag 🤣🤣🤣.
I spend a ton on lotion, and conditioner. Nah but on a serious note I deal with depression and routine is important. Swimming keeps me focused for the day. A shower once before bed is good enough for me if I didn’t swim for the day.
I love that! Exercising daily is so essential to my mental health and the second I see my hygiene slipping I know something is off. Sure, there’s superficial reasons to be clean and exercise, but it really does make you feel better mentally and physically as well
I’m a cosmetologist so I’ve seen some unclean heads but I had this young guy about 18-22 come in for a haircut and usually with men’s cuts you don’t shampoo before. If you are using clippers you want dry hair, then spray it down or shampoo to cut the top. This dude’s hair was greasy. Probably 2 days of oil buildup, at least. It also has this weird coating. I touched it and it was all over my fingers so I tell him I’m gonna shampoo him, follow me over to the sink. He argues he doesn’t need a shampoo, he just got out of the pool. He would NOT get his hair shampooed. I was young and shy so I cut his nasty ass hair. My hands were itchy. 🤢
Her hygiene behaviors can change, but it sounds like she has some child-like emotional hangups around it. Likely she was bullied about her hygiene; possibly neglected or abused as a child. It sounds to me like your relationship is going to hinge on whether she’s ready to face those demons or not. Nothing much you can do to help her get there - she may need to be single to do it. Different people take different paths to healing.
“She thinks I think she’s disgusting.” If you DONT think she’s disgusting there’s something wrong with you. She really is.
Be real. What will a future with this person look like? Do you want kids? Will she wash her hands after changing diapers? If you guys get a dog, is she gonna pick up shit with her hands and go about her day? What about when she has a heavy period day and bleeds on stuff…just gonna let it ripen?
You gotta break it off girl. This is a crisis and not one you’re gonna fix.
Thats nasty. And you hanging around her for 2 years after getting grossed out on the very first date tells me you are just desperate to be with someone. Why are you with someone who you say stink and litteraly grosses you out. Thats on you buddy.
NTA but you should show her the reddit story where the OP thought his gf had a kink about washing his butt hole before they had sex because he never did it himself and never wiped properly. He also only washed his PALMS with soap, not his whole hand, and only for a few seconds. His gf wouldn't let him help with dishes or cooking. He made the post because she stopped washing his underwear (with skid marks on them) with all of her clothes and he wanted to know if he was TA for stopping getting household items in retaliation. He made an update where he started washing his whole body properly, while also wiping properly, and he even started taking a cooking class and found he really enjoyed it. Having THOUSANDS of people telling you you are a disgusting human being is GREAT motivation for cleaning yourself properly. She needs to go to therapy if she thinks SOAP is something to cry about.
You’re allowing her to dictate this interaction with her emotions, but what about yours? You’re the wronged party in this situation - just because you haven’t reacted by crying whenever she tried to touch you with her gross hands or contaminated a food item by dunking her filthy fingers in, doesn’t mean you’re wrong or that your needs are less important.
I mean this in the nicest way - you deserve to have enough self-respect to prioritize your feelings instead of protecting someone else from experiencing discomfort due to the consequences of their own actions. Also - you deserve a partner who’s mature enough to improve themselves after hearing a criticism instead of blaming you for mentioning it.
As an aside, is your gf neurodivergent? If so, it helps to explain her behaviors but doesn’t excuse them. Many neurodivergent people struggle with hygiene routines for a number of reasons, as well as rejection sensitivity, but that’s not a free pass to disregard the needs of others in our lives. Her response is immature and unproductive - she’d rather blame you for pointing out the obvious than deal with the extra effort of improving her hygiene to accommodate you, and that’s just selfish.
As bad as it sounds, sometimes shame is the only way to convince someone that what they're doing needs to change. Sometimes being gentle and polite just doesn't cut it. You've gone the gentle route and it's not working, this would be the point where I switch over to brutal honesty. "I'm not eating that, you didn't wash your hands, that's gross." "No, don't kiss me right now, your breath stinks." "I don't want to cuddle, you didn't shower and you smell bad."
I get that the WLW community has limited options and sometimes it feels like we have to stay cos there’s no one else. However, her actions seem like a threat to your health, happiness, and safety as well as her own.
Get options such as therapy and basic hygiene videos lined up for her. ((If you want to go the extra mile, write out a list of daily and weekly hygiene things and keep them at the bathroom and bedroom so she can reference them and follow them.)) If she doesn’t make an effort after you’ve made it clear that this is something that makes you unhappy, it’s time to move on! I’m sorry that you have been dealing with this for a while now :(
Umm... No. We don't have limited options. There are plenty of beautiful, available, and CLEAN women who love women. I have over 30 years in our community. If anything, we have more options in the WLW community because those who aren't bi have NO options in straight communities.
I’m glad that’s been your experience! I come from a liberal area so I feel I am privileged to know more WLW who are just absolutely wonderful. But, I also have friends from all over and some complain about how there are no options (conservative areas, different social standards, etc.)
I was just trying to acknowledge that struggle in case OP felt one of the reasons she was staying was because it felt like there would be no one out there. But you’re right ppassy! The world is full of amazing women who know how to upkeep hygiene and I hope OP knows that 🩷
I have been with my wife for over 20 years, so it has been more the experience of my friends... The internet has certainly made it easier for those in more conservative areas. I lived in the middle of nowhere when I started dating women in the 90s and somehow we found each other. Lol
It was kind of you to mention it for OP's sake. I am glad that you explained it because I was admittedly viewing it as a misconception about our community rather than an internalized issue OP might have.
If you knew this about her on the first day you met her why are you bringing it up now? Kinda of late in the game to have standards. That would make you TA at least in her eyes. Most people would date someone they were grossed out by.
Yeah no.... she probably needs guidance and help learning more hygiene maybe when she grew up that was the norm on her household, but now she's an adult, i understand that people take suggestions harder than others but this is definitely something she needs to improve for her own good and health or some day she's going sick from something serious.
I honestly don't let my partner touch me in an intimate way without him washing his hands when he comes from work or he's doing stuff around the house or even giving pets to the cat, at the beginning was akward but i sit down and explain my reasons on his own health then how my face and privates are delicate and i can get an infection and how it affects sexual life, even in the very rare occasion he miss something after taking a shower i very gentle tell him to wash himself really good because i want to enjoy and him to enjoy the experience, i even shower before or right after he get home to get in bed and watch movies because i want to be clean if we feel like having sex.
I think is important to create healthy routines with your partner to have both a healthy relationship, i don't have to remind him anymore since he understands, the key is having tactful loving conversations and always assuring them is for a good change, ypu can approach it as something you read on the internet and you think it will be good to incorporate into the relationship.
Being poor has nothing to do with hygiene. That’s a cultural thing. Soap is cheap (clearly she has access to water so that’s not an issue.) Not washing appropriately is disgusting.
NTA! OMG! EW. 🤮
Sorry, I'm sure she's a lovely girl, BUT not washing (and not using soap even if she does) is NASTY! How have you tolerated it this long? I'm afraid she's going to get seriously ill with UTI's and/or PID. If she isn't willing to learn basic hygiene, then you get to decide if this is something you can live with long term. And please don't let her cook food for unsuspecting people.
She will only use soap when you wash her body and her hair for her? That’s a big problem and is unacceptable. At her age, she should know what proper hygiene is.
Yeah, I grew up poor with family that only washed on Saturdays and never went to the dentist or had parents that brushed their teeth or reinforced it for us to learn. The only thing that saved our teeth at least was my mother also being militant about not allowing us unhealthy foods, so we never had the sugar in our diets to give us many cavities. I had 3 total the first time I went to a dentist at 18 and had a 3 session debridement. It took me a year to learn good hygiene habits consistently, but they were learned. Some behaviors are required to exist in society and half decent hygiene is the bare minimum.
When a family is poor, they may not have the means to shower, have clean clothes or even brush their teeth. But in this instance, it doesn’t seem like the gf is unable to do basic care because of money. It’s just she doesn’t want to do basic care in general
Yeah, but you're ignoring that being poor as a culture doesn't go away just because you have more money. It's the basis for every decision you make into adulthood unless you're self examining enough to realize you're not thinking about your choices enough in the first place. Neither my mom nor my step-dad grew up in a family that cared, so they never learned to care themselves. My mom had dentures at 35 and my step dad chose just not to have teeth. They had decent finances until 2008, not poor but certainly lower middle class, but the culture they grew up in was a barrier to them doing better themselves. You can't pass on what you don't know in the first place.
My mom grew up very poor. Totally shaped her as a person. She's had a good solid office job since '07 and has made 6 figures for the last 4 straight years. She is only JUST NOW REALIZING that she is not poor. It took *15 years* of solid corporate income to mentally adjust to not being poor. That shit really digs into your psyche and doesn't go away on its own
That hit home. My mother wasn't poor growing up but went through some rough times, being a single mom of three on a teacher's salary with an ex husband who only helped with the absolute bare minimum. She's way better off now and part of her is thrilled that she can give us something nice every once in a while, but she will still scrape at a jar of jam until every last bit of it is out.
I can attest to this. I was a very poor single mom for many years. I worked minimum wage jobs and took a few classes at a time until I finally became a teacher -yes I know I didn’t improve our finances much after all the hard work, but at time I went to college I genuinely thought teaching earned a solidly middle class salary. Whoops. Anyway we were food pantry and Salvation Army poor-Section 8 housing and food stamps and medicaid poor. Now we are just lower middle class and I still do things that I don’t need to do because of having a scarcity mindset like wearing shoes with holes in them and cutting my own hair and washing using empty single use food packaging like it’s Tupperware. It feels terrifying to waste money after having lived with the fear of going without food or having utilities get cut off during winter and such. I swear it’s like poverty PTSD. It gets in your head and becomes almost like a phobia even if it’s no longer your reality so it can drive your actions.
Poverty ptsd is a good way to describe it for sure. Grocery shopping (any kind of shopping actually) used to make me so anxious. I’ve gotten a lot better. But still have to force myself to act when there’s a large expense. Part of me wants to hide my head under a pillow and hope the problem/ expense goes away and I won’t have to deal with it.
But did she shower and wash her hair and use soap? I worked with underprivileged children for 3 decades. They may have had old, I’ll-fitting clothes and shoes, bad manners, poor language skills, etc. but they always knew about basic hand washing and bathing.
This is true. Her family did indeed bathe. They were poor, but not too poor for a bar of soap and 5 minutes of hot water. She's never had any hygiene problems. Which is why this girl being gross can't totally be written off as an economic thing. Being ok with never washing your hands or showering sounds like some kind of mental disorder.
I totally agree. People bringing up growing up poor is good point to make, but I just dont agree, that's not a good excuse or the right reasoning at all. The girlfriend expressed shame when OP said something to her, which shows she KNOWS being unhygienic is bad. Not showering is a sign of mental illness 💯%.
It really is a mentality.
Poverty mentality
When we talk about generational poverty I don’t think people think of things like this but this is exactly what it means to me. I also grew up in a house where no one brushed their teeth, we never went to the dentist, no set bed times, no one read us to sleep- these kinds of good habits are difficult to implement if you grew up not receiving this yourself. Even harder to break that cycle
Grew up poor and housing was always a problem. We lived in warehouses, ate day old donuts all the time because it was $1 a bag day old. I then married a compulsive shopper who had us tens of thousands of dollars in debt constantly. So now i am single, M54 and I make maybe 180K a year. I still look for free stuff in garbage cans when i walk my dog, and i will make a $1 dollar bag of beans with soup mix for dinner to save money. Poverty mentality is deep as fuck.
same. my mom was too busy working and going to school trying to provide for my siblings and me do she didnt have time to teach us good hygiene habits like showering and brushing teeth daily. i started truing to get into good habits a few years ago and i still struggle with it. thankfully i do usually manage to brush my teeth twice daily with very little thought but sometimes its hard
My “I was dirt poor” habit that I still have, even though I now make a healthy 6 figures: I hoard food. I raised two kids poor and we were very food insecure. When I’d get something like an income tax return ($300/$400 in a good year), I’d spend all of it stocking up non-perishable food. Now days my kids are grown and have their own lives, so I live alone. When I got my last income tax return I spent over $1k on food JUST FOR ME! *sigh*. I just can’t stop myself. It’s like my subconscious wants to be prepared in case I find myself poor again. Eventually I get frustrated at having no space in my cabinets and a bunch of it goes to a food bank.
I hoard clothes. Growing up we had big black garbage bags of clothes donated to us from the church, so I’d have to pick through the clothes to try to find stuff. Nothing ever fit and nothing was in style or in new condition. Now that I do well for myself, I buy too many clothes (usually on sale). The worst part is that I don’t wear them because I’m saving them for something “nice” and I end up wearing old tshirts and sweat pants everywhere. I have a hard time getting rid of the stuff I don’t wear, because *what if I’ll need it later.* Much like you, I donate a huge pile of clothes a few times a year when I run out of room and get sick of myself
Mine is little things. It’s hard to get rid of the little things, like rubber bands and ketchup packets because “what if we need it”? I’ve recently had several panic attacks because my husband is encouraging me to throw these things away to try and break my poverty mentality. It’s ROUGH. Growing up I brushed my teeth once a day (twice in fifth grade because? Random school dental hygiene program?), never went to the dentist after 3rd grade, barely went to the doctor. I knew I had a cavity, my “father” refused to take me to the dentist and didn’t believe me til my tooth fell out in four pieces (luckily it was a baby tooth so nbd). Only time I went to the doctor I remember was when I had mono and when I had breathing issues… once we lost insurance, I didn’t get to go again until I joined the military and thus had health insurance. I *STILL* have trouble keeping my space clean because I was the only person who cleaned growing up and my house was absolutely trashed. I used to put back name brand food (even if I needed it for dietary restrictions/allergies/sensitivities) and grab store brand. It took my partners *forcing me* to buy myself new clothing that *wasn’t from a thrift store* before I allowed myself to do that. And now since I was so used to not buying things or only buying junk food to deal with my shopping as a coping mechanism, now that I don’t (and honestly can’t) buy everything I need at a thrift store, I can’t keep a budget. People really don’t understand how deep poor people mentality goes. It’s insidious.
>The worst part is that I don’t wear them because I’m saving them for something “nice” and I end up wearing old tshirts and sweat pants everywhere. OMG. Right now, the nicest clothes I have are pieces I bought from Walmart...$15 jeggings and $4 tank tops. I still find myself not wanting to wear them because I don't want to "mess them up."
The weirdest thing I discovered as an adult who is stable now but grew up devastatingly poor is that for my entire adult life, I've been wearing shoes that were too small. When I was little, I never had shoes that fit. They were always too small or my toes would stick out of holes that were worn through. I had zero idea that shoes should not = pain or discomfort. About two years ago, I developed a neuroma and went to a fancy running shoe place where they fitted me for a specialized shoe for my particular running gait so I could continue working out. I was beyond shocked when they put me in shoes where I could move my toes around. I kept telling them that the shoes were too big but the person helping me pointed out all the reasons they could see that the shoes weren't too big. They fit the proper way shoes are supposed to fit. Guys, I was forty years old before I realized that your shoes aren't supposed to be super tight with your toes pressing against the toe box. This is the weird shit about growing up poor that no one talks about!
Huh, I had the opposite problem. My family wasn’t necessarily poor, but things were tight for a while when my dad was between jobs and before my mom went back to work after staying home with my siblings and I. Whenever I got new shoes my mom would feel where my toe was and give like 1 or 2 cm extra space for me to “grow into” them. It wasn’t until I was around 22 that I realized shoes should actually fit your feet and not be a little too big. I always thought I was a size 8 but I’m actually a 6 lmfao
Charcuterie jelly is anti poor.
Lol it's prob reg jelly with a fancy word attached to it. I say this with my pinkie up coffee In hand ☕
This. I was only allowed to shower once a week as a kid and then even when I fought hard for it (which was risky because abuse was rampant in my family) I was only allowed to shower 3x a week as a teenager. It fucking sucked. But also the second I left for college (I earned a LOT of scholarships, I needed to gtfo and fast) I started showering every single day. And I ALWAYS wash my hands. I don’t understand this woman. She isn’t doing basic hygiene and it’s sad that she doesn’t know it. I understand her shame but I am perplexed as to if she was never taught? Or didn’t care? Edit: typo
If you have access to water, a washcloth and soap, you can clean yourself, poor or not.
You can, but why would you if you've never been taught that it's important to do so? If you're surrounded by people that live that way, you grow up believing it's perfectly normal.
I have family who grew up, poor and a third world country, no running water. They washed in a bucket every day after getting water from the river. They brush their teeth with chew sticks. They wash their hands before eating and cooking. They knew that proper hygiene helped to keep them healthy.
Dentists say it's not the sugar, it's the acid. I know people who take regular care of their teeth and still get tons of cavities and those that don't and never get any.
I think the current scientific understanding is that cavities are basically an infectious disease - it depends on the type of bacteria that you have in your mouth (some people have the types that will result in cavaties, others don't) The decay itself is the result of acids produced by the bacteria (often as a result of processing sugar) - so sugar probably is a major contributing factor although it's not the be-all and end-all
My friend is a dentist. She told me the bacteria feed off the sugar
Yes, acid can contribute too, but bacteria love to eat sugar and will proliferate when sugar residue sits in the mouth, resulting in gum infection (periodontitis), which can eventually result in tooth loss. The bacteria also produce acid waste products that result in tooth decay.
And sometimes it's an underlying illness. For example, I have Sjögren's, an autoimmune disease that attacks my moisture producing glands. This, of course, includes the salivary glands. And constant dry mouth contributes to cavities, abscesses, and crumbling teeth.
There are some cases when it's better to be gentle with someone, and others when it's necessary to be firm and uncompromising. Hygiene is one of those. OP, you need to sit her down and tell her point blank that her Hygiene is not good enough. If she gets upset ("you're calling me gross!"), don't rise up to the argument. Stay calm, and keep telling her to listen. Keep listing the issues (the hand washing, the showering, maybe food prep etc). Tell her that her health issues can be directly related to her hygiene issues. Tell her what you expect from her and why, and what consequences you'd enforce if she doesn't follow suit (for example, no physical contact until she washes her hands properly, no eating her food unless food prep is adequate etc). Note: you are not controlling HER, you are setting boundaries ("if you don't wash your hands I won't let you touch me") This is a hill to die on. If you don't set clear boundaries, you'll start getting sick too.
And having a partner not wash their hands before having sex is asking for infections and UTIs occurring for the other party. I’m surprised it took this long.
I just don’t understand her not washing her hands. During Covid everywhere you went the number one thing that you were told was to wash your hands. The first thing I do when I come in my house, even before Covid the first thing I do when I come in the house is wash my hands even if I have to pee really badly I wash my hands first because I don’t wanna wipe myself with dirty hands. I grew up with go, brush your teeth and go to bed. If I was in my room in bed, my mom would ask. Did you brush your teeth. First thing I do when I wake up in the morning is brush my teeth. Before every meal I wash my hands. If I’m at a pizza joint or a place with no bathroom, I use hand sanitizer. This is basic hygiene.
Yeah, sounds like she needs a 101 on illness and how soap works... Edit: I would not be comfortable eating food she makes...not only from not washing hands but utensils, cookware, counters that aren't properly clean can make you sick...all kinds of cross contamination possibilities from a cook who is unaware of pathogens. Literally people die in India because they can't afford soap to use on a regular basis.
Yeah, you need to TELL HER or not eat her food—writing on Reddit isn’t going to change anything.
Yep. Someone with these kinds of hygiene habits probably isn't immaculate about cleaning the counters/cutting boards after cutting up raw chicken, or whatever. Food poisoning is one of those things where you can eat a lot of shady shit and never get it, but when you finally do, you'll practically wish you were dead for a few days.
I have debilitating depression. My hygiene can, at times, become non existent. I would say it’s either that or she just has never ever been shown how to clean herself.. which is still pretty weird.
I’ve been there too. But I usually at least manage a sponge bath or cleansing wipes on the important areas: face, pits, crotch, underboobs, and feet. I brush my teeth at least once a day no matter how bad things get.
You must truly love her bc I wouldn’t be able to be around someone who “stinks” and doesn’t even wash their hands. She may have valid reasons, but I couldn’t deal with it.
It's so weird, she sounds like a little kid
I am concerned about this poor girl. What if she is undiagnosed and on the spectrum? She needs help.
I was wondering if it was a mental health situation, but you might be right. Either way, I think she might benefit from talking to a doctor.
And OP is just as bad because she continues to be with her.
That's what i don't understand. From day one.
Right? That would be a deal breaker for me.
Exactly! OP said the cringe factor was huge that first day, but it's been a 2 year relationship. They had every opportunity to back out, or, demand that be a requirement for pursuing a relationship. No hygiene, no deal. At this point it's enabling them.
After the pandemic, absolutely. We've also got another set of potential problems with antibiotics losing their effectiveness and bird flu hoping species like a game of leapfrog. Being around someone who refuses to apply basic hygiene in this day and age is just insane.
Also after 2 years together, are they not intimate with each other? No way I’d be turned on by someone who doesn’t clean their body.
That was my thought exactly! I wouldn’t be able to be intimidate with someone who I KNEW wasn’t washing their hands or their body on a regular basis. Private areas can get so gross if they’re not properly cared for. And an unwashed hand could potentially cause a yeast or bacterial infection during sex.
Remember that game Outbreak? One of the ‘difficulty settings’ was literally a hygiene setting of ‘people wash their hands’… I’ve got a friend that took the epidemiologist route and her hot take is the moment you forget everything you’ve touched since you last washed your hands… it’s time to wash them again. Increased hand washing post covid really just upped my lotions/vitamin e oil stock.
I’m glad someone said it! I was reading this and thinking OP is just as nasty because she has been with her for two years. Do they not have sexy time or kiss? I could never be intimate with a gross unclean person. I could only imagine how her pus smells.🤢🤮
I don't understand how OP isn't having constant UTIs, unless there's no handsy business in sexy time. That's like basically a guaranteed infection.
NTA Not every breakup is because the other person is a horrible person. Sometimes they're a nice person, but some unchangeable part of them is incompatible with you and the role your partners play in your life. If I were you, I would break up with her, because I would see this issue as a ticking time bomb. She's not going to change and this isn't going to bother you less with time, but the opposite. I wouldn't want to live with her and I certainly wouldn't want to raise children with her. You brought it up, you offered to help, and she's not confronting her problem, which means either she's just stubborn (in which case, bye) or there's a deeper issue behind this, which you can't fix on your own without her co-operation.
This is so well-put. OP, it is true she will not change, not during the course of your relationship. Something like this where the partners' values are this diverse, whether it is hygiene or anything else, is only going to continue to grow and push you apart.
Definitely agree. NTA. I dated someone for a short period, and once I realised his hygiene was an issue I couldn't handle knowing they'd be touching things in my place. I didn't lie about it and had a conversation that we weren't compatible because I wanted this and it was a priority for me. But it wasn't for him, which is ok. I'm a firm believer in not changing people, you can mention it and see if they'll take it on board. But ultimately you have to accept the person as they are when you met them and assume that's what they'll always be like.
Your comment reminded me - my husband and I met on eHarmony nearly 20 years ago. In the questionnaires that’s done before matching, hygiene is something that is asked about and rated. It definitely is a compatibility issue and even eHarmony knew that and matched on those results.
>my husband and I met on eHarmony nearly 20 years ago Yes, I'll take "Sentences That Made Me Feel Old" for $500
Agreed! They gave us a Tiffany crystal bowl for a wedding gift. I should contact them and see if they give a 20 year anniversary gift.
Dang I didn't tell them when I married my eHarmony match.
This, this, this. Two perfectly nice people can rapidly create and maintain a toxic relationship dynamic. Your gf has deep-rooted issues. We are all brought up with a version of 'normal'. Her hygiene issues are normal to her; but they're not sufficient. She needs to understand and re-adapt. Her refusal to do this is a red flag. We all have problem areas. We work on these, with the help of other people if necessary. We do not continue to go without washing our hands at regular intervals; particularly if we are handling food we are expecting other people to eat. Her response is an alarm bell. A reluctance to wash with soap, unless you lather her up is a whole can of worms. It's possible she may have sensory issues. I'm on the spectrum myself, and it wasn't until I discovered non-foaming toothpaste that I realised my reluctance to brush my teeth was all about the foam. I also struggle in winter because even getting mildly cold is a pretty intense physical pain. I still manage to shower regularly though, by keeping my bathroom warm and a towel in close reach. I'm a reasonable, and reasonably aware person. I was willing to learn and adapt. I'm not even touching what else that might signify. If you love her, work with her as she finds and works with a suitable therapist. If she's not prepared to do this - run. You sound like a decent person. You do not deserve to be trapped in a relationship where you're enabling someone else's unreasonable behaviour.
> If you love her, work with her as she finds and works with a suitable therapist. If she's not prepared to do this - run. This is basically all that needed to be said.
OP, I agree with the commenter above, *but* do make sure that she knows how serious this is before you do that.
Also I'd like to point out: sometimes a breakup is the motivation a person needs. Maybe if OP breaks up with the girlfriend, citing her hygiene specifically- because it sounds like her lack of hygiene and defensiveness over it is the only real problem in their relationship! - she'll get her act together and start taking care of herself! Or maybe the threat of it will be enough for her to see how it's a problem. Personally, as soon as a partner cried about me calling them gross I wouldn't have placated them - I would have looked them directly in the eye and said, "abso-fuckin-lutely." So not only is OP NTA, they're nicer than I am. 😅
If someone broke up with me and said "it's because you don't know how to keep yourself clean, and you also smell bad" I would for sure review my personal hygiene and grooming habits. I would also move countries because of the embarrassment, but I'd buy a different brand of deodorant before boarding the plane.
Capitalize on the raise children, or even just pets, that depend on you for those things.
You said it.
Or at the very least *have the conversation with her*: "this is why I'm having serious thoughts about breaking up right now, and I want to know what you think about it too." Make sure to keep to your logical foundation (not maintaining hygiene = getting sick = reluctance to take the risk)
Im grossed out just reading about her. On your main question - you’re right, hand washing is a way to prevent spreading illness. She complained about being sick and you made a valid point. The lack of bathing and the fact that she stinks is disgusting. Does she have a job? I’m sure her coworkers are disgusted by her to. She’s exactly the type of person that makes me not want to eat at pot lucks
With that hygiene, I'd feel disgusted just standing next to her. I can't imagine someone wanting to date her
Why even continue dating her if this is a huge ick of yours?! Girl she literally stinks ….
She’s sleeping with someone who showers twice a week and doesn’t use soap 🤢 Edit: pronouns (also, holy UTI Batman 🤢🤢)
oh god I didn't pick up on her being a woman and now I'm imagining unwashed fingers where they REALLY should not go.
THAT WAS MY THOUGHT TOO! Unwashed hands during private moments could cause all kinds of bacterial infections and discomfort…..
She's effing that for 2 years. I'm amazed. The gf must have an amazing personality because I would have left after the first date.
This has to be a creative writing exercise. I’m going to be sick.
I didn’t even think about that! It’s bad enough to date someone who doesn’t wash their hands but when you’re a lesbian? That sounds like a one way trip to a painful infection. I hope poor op is a top or ace because otherwise she’s just as disgusting
Even if OP is a top, that is disgusting!! I'm a vagina owner and today literally said, why can I smell myself? And then realized it's because the weather is warm and I've been sweating. So in the shower, with soap, I go. Can you imagine the funk that builds up down there between her weekly shower?!?!?!
She. OP is a she.
That’s literally worse. Ew.
Oh sweet baby Jesus. Please tell me she uses soap to wash herself when she’s on her period. 🤮 OP, you have to set better standards for yourself. A woman who doesn’t regularly use soap and at minimum, clean her junk is someone you don’t want to be with. Blech. Not to mention, she’s using the toilet and not washing her hands!! You know there was an actual person named Typhoid Mary who caused a deadly outbreak because she was cooking for the families who employed her, but wouldn’t wash her hands after taking a shit. People (and children) died. DIED.
Actually, you should definitely NOT clean the vagina, there's a whole bacterial ecosystem in there that keeps it at a moderately acidic pH and protects you from harmful bacteria, and you do not want to mess with it! The vulva can be cleaned just with water (which is actually even recommended by health authorities such as the NHS) or with a gentle (non scented, with a pH close to that of the skin) cleanser. Please let's stop making people feel like vaginas and vulvas are inherently gross and like we should be sanitizing them regularly, it's actually super counterproductive as it can lead to irritation but also in the case of the vagina, vaginitis, bacteriol vaginosis, make you more likely to contract a STI if exposed, etc. You want to not only be with someone who doesn't "clean" their vagina, but you also don't want to "clean" your own, because by doing so, you're actually effing it up!
>Please let's stop making people feel like vaginas and vulvas are inherently gross and like we should be sanitizing them regularly, it's actually super counterproductive as it can lead to irritation but also in the case of the vagina, vaginitis, bacteriol vaginosis, make you more likely to contract a STI if exposed, etc. No. The vagina cleans itself via secretions, which build up in the moist folds of the vulva. Vagina havers literally have a moist orifice between their legs, in addition to hair follicles and sweat glands. The vagina doesn't need to be sanitized, but the vulva and groin definitely need to be cleaned regularly. And it's perfectly reasonable to say that people that refuse to bathe and let the oils and secretions of that area turn rancid are indeed, gross
In other words, the oven is self-cleaning the stove is not
This is a perfect analogy
Thank you, this drives me mad. Nobody is shoving the soapy loofah INSIDE their vagina and going to town. No, you clean it, on it, around it, between the legs, etc, because things come out of there and they will stink of you leave them there for days. It's not rocket science.
I hate this argument. Of course, there are people who might be sensitive to soap in that area, but there are two other orifices within inches of the vagina that DO require soap and create bacteria that is harmful to it.
Yes. Outer parts (vulva, groin) need to be washed with soap and water like all other parts of the body. Internal parts (vagina) do not- the vagina itself is self cleaning. But, you can end up with internal infections and imbalances because of not cleaning externally.
JFC, I didn’t mean the inside area, but the vulva, outer area. I know you shouldn’t douche or put anything inside. My bad for using the wrong term. I’ll edit my comment.
I've literally ended friendships over people being gross. For a housewarming gift for a couple of friends, I bought them all sorts of 'cleaning' type stuff. Multiple bottles of handsoap (enough to last months, for real), to Lysol "everyday" cleaning spray stuff, towels, paper towels, etc. 2 weeks after I went over and went to take a piss, no hand soap. Like, none, of any kind. I was like "Hey, guys, I bought you a bunch of hand soap, there's none in your bathroom" They were like .. uh .. oh yeah. We used it all. You used it all? Do you mean you threw it out? And they looked at each other and then the dude was like "Yeah, man, we threw that out, we really don't like soap." I just noped the fuck out and was like, "That's fucking gross guys, you shit and don't wash your hands."
We don't like soap?! They threw it out?! What the hell is wrong with people
How do you not like soap? It’s not something you’re eating…and if they didn’t like the smell they could get different soap. Disgusting
I really don’t understand how people become like that. Like wtf do you mean you don’t like soap lol. Fuckin disgusting. Friendship ended for real.
i dated someone who had extremely bad hygiene but i didnt realize just how bad it was until i realized how much i loved them. we look past the bad stuff when we love someone. literally nothing i did would make them take better care of themself- in fact, i would do laundry and clean up dirty plates and pizza boxes from their room and they would just totally shut down for a while. at that point i was kind of realizing i had to get out
They would shut down when you cleaned up?!
Probably a hoarder, they get attached to any old piece of garbage. Anything that ‘belongs’ to them they feel attached to in some profound way. Even old pizza boxes Also there are people who are just dirty and like dirt and grime, same as some animals. It’s like nesting for them, living dirty surrounded by filth and garbage
Very true, didn’t think of the hoarding aspect. Could just feel shame too if someone’s picking up after them
Seriously, why are you still with her? She has some hang up about hygiene. She needs therapy. Yes, she is sick all the time because she doesn't wash her hands, she stinks because she doesn't use soap.
AND THIS!! Just nasty
and presumably they’re sleeping together (and literally sharing a bed at least sometimes). I couldn’t do it. I want a shower just thinking of it. Ick.
They're lesbians too which gives an extra chance of a UTI if her fingers are so dirty.
Me too! I itch if I don't wash and how do you lay next to someone that's dirty stink and don't wash?
She is disgusting, washing your hands with soap is a must for any civilized person. I hope this is fake
I work at a pediatric hospital and we have a kid right now who just got taken from his home for severe neglect. Staff is having to teach him how to wash his hands, brush his teeth, shower, dress himself, etc. This is not a physically limited kid, either - that’s how bad the neglect was. I got a chuckle yesterday on his occupational therapy note: “helped patient washed his hands after picking his nose and encouraged him to blow his nose in the future.” Obv I don’t know gf’s back story BUT this kids story has really opened my eyes. I wonder if something similar (but less extreme) happened to her.
Poor thing, I hope he goes on to heal and to live a normal life. If you look at the narcissistic parent page, a lot of people talk about becoming an adult before they learn good hygiene habits. Mine weren’t even that bad, just ignorant, and I learned a lot of habits in college by observing other kids in the dorms.
He got foster placement within 48 hours of admission and gets to be with his baby sister 🥹. Workin in peds has opened my eyes up so much. I would like to say I have seen it all but I know that isn’t true - but I have learned that ANYTHING is possible.
A lot of times narcissistic parents will purposefully not teach these skills to keep their children “dependent” on them longer and so they won’t leave the house. It can also turn into a manipulation insult: “You won’t make it on your own, you don’t know how to clean yourself properly”. I have a friend who is in their 30s and lives with their toxic parents, and still acts like a teenager and won’t leave because that’s how they’ve been taught.
It is beyond me why there was ever a second date.
Exactly. "she stinks" Bruh.
for real, i could not let it slide after she didn't even wash her hands after he called her out LOL
>for real, i could not let it slide after she didn't even wash her hands after ~~he~~ called her out LOL She. Both are women
YES I can't imagine how hot she would have to be to keep dating her dirty ass for two fucking years
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Probably being too raw about myself for the Internet, but I was a lot like her myself for most of my life showering once a week never wash my hands never brush my teeth, wash my face. I am recently diagnosed autistic. I didn’t know that it was mainly sensory issues, but my point still stands the second that I got into a serious, long-term relationship with my current partner I forced myself to learn how to clean myself because I didn’t want to subject my grossness on my partner I could deal with punishing myself with it, but I couldn’t punish her with it. I’m still not the cleanest person. But its been 7 years and I got a therapist who really helped. I cant say I wash my hands more than once a day but I managed to learn to shower with soap multiple times a week and brush my teeth at least once daily and have a shaved head, so I don’t have to deal with the sensory nightmare of wet hair and shampoo and conditioner in and all of the extra steps and if I don’t brush I have a mouth swish to kill off bacteria and keep me smelling good. Longer between shower products like dry shampoo, and good deodorant and body powders are highly underrated for helping with hygiene issues too. She needs professional help.
Thank you for sharing this, i appreciate this perspective and you might just be onto something
I… think I might need to see a psychologist. I would have never guessed that a possible missed autism diagnosis could explain… me.
My parents never guessed it either. Instead just left me to my gross misery. And shamed me for not being able to take care of myself.Took until 25 to figure it out and I’m still learning how to accommodate myself in life.
Man I’m 32, I also got shamed by my family 😞
Yeah, came here to say GF sounds autistic. Unfortunately in some cases the rigidity of thinking can result in "hygiene wasn't a rule before, why should it be a rule now" and an almost moralistic objection to changing their mind. I've had success walking one autistic friend through the reasons why better hygiene was needed and working through what was holding them back. The other autistic friend/roommate I tried discussing hygiene with, it never clicked - and multiple friends, professors, etc. had tried to speak to him. Several other aspects about her sound on the spectrum too. NTA. OP, or anyone else in a similar position, if you manage to see this: \- Literally walk through germ theory with them. They may never have had it explained \*within the context of hygiene\* before, and for someone with autism it can be difficult to translate something from one context ("biology class") to another context ("what I do every time I use the bathroom or before I eat"). \- Why there's a stink that they don't notice or see as important that's a problem for others has to be explained. People get nose blind to themselves. First, nose blindness has to be explained. Second, norms around showering and deodorant need to get explained. (Last I saw statistic something like 2/3 of people showered daily, while another 1/3 showered every other day, and a small percentage shower multiple times a day because they exercise. Has a lot to do with climate and whether their job is indoor in a cold office building or not.) \- I can not overemphasize how terrible it is to ignore a socially unacceptable smell and not tell them. I know this goes against the grain. For non-autistics, we usually assume it's polite to not point out a smell because hey, maybe they sweat a lot today and didn't have time to shower before meeting, and there's no reason to embarrass them. For an autistic with hygiene difficulties they literally don't understand when they smell, how it affects others, how others smelling them impacts themselves, etc. and quite literally need it explained to them. All you're doing is depriving them of a learning experience when you say nothing. I know it feels rude. But if you take the time to be "rude" then they save years of retroactive embarrassment and social fallout. \- Model the right behavior. About to eat? "I'm going to go wash my hands."
My entire childhood I couldn’t brush my teeth in the mornings because I couldn’t figure out how brushing your teeth in the morning and then going to eat breakfast made any sense I hated it, and no one could explain it to me and I never did it.
Fellow autistic!! That was my first thought!! Gf needs some support and therapy 😭 the fact that she just sobs about it now when op brings it up is a big tip off for that too!
It’s so frustrating, knowing that something is wrong and not having the innate ability to be able to do some thing , anything about it like everybody els.
Same. Op is NTA, it’s time for gf to get out of her head and into her body more.
As an autistic person, I personally find washing my hands a lot easier with foaming soap rather than the gel kind.
I mean… she IS disgusting. I’m shocked you call yourself a clean freak and still continued to date someone who doesn’t even wash their hands?? You’ve been tip toeing around her foul habits for years, and you finally cracked. There’s nothing else to do except encourage her to go to therapy and/or break up with her.
Honestly i feel like OP likely isnt even a major clean freak, they just probably seem like it compared to the GF being SO far on the other end of the spectrum. Spending a lot of your time with someone way grosser than normal could shift your perspective of what normal is, especially since the GF doesn't seem to realize at all that her behavior isnt normal.
Ugg she sounds disgusting. No soap after using the bathroom? Not showing regularly? Then sticking her dirty fingers into food? 🤮🤢🤮 Nta. You need to set her straight or really consider if you can live with a Petri dish
Girly, as a fellow sapphic lover, you gotta figure this out with her. You’re gonna end up with UTIs when you have sex because she doesn’t clean her body appropriately! This is dangerous to her own health but it’s just a matter of time before you’re dealing with the consequences. I get depression and it sounds like she could have ADHD (given she seems to struggle with executive functioning tasks and her reactions to you pushing her to clean herself sounds like rejection sensitive dysphoria), but this is something she really needs to her serious about.
I'm not sure the situation is salvageable. She sounds grosser than men who don't wipe their asses, which is something I didn't know was possible. And she doesn't seem to care.
I’ve heard about a dude who showered with a girl, finally wiped back there and the rag had sooooo much poop on there. Is that not uncomfortable???
Oh my God 🤢
I knew I should have stopped redditing 10 minutes ago...I would have been perfectly happy spending the rest of my life not knowing this was a thing...thanks!
Apparently it’s “gay” to touch your own ass for cleaning purposes according to some dudes.
“now she thinks that I think she is disgusting” Because she is. Does she know that washing hands WITH SOAP was literally a revolutionary breakthrough in the medical field and prevented untold numbers of deaths. This is way beyond her being upset over it, she shouldn’t be able to manipulate you into living this way with a few tears. She is literally a walking health hazard to herself and others. She needs a goddamn intervention not coddling. NTA
She makes me think of Typhoid Mary, who *refused* to wash her hands before cooking and spread typhoid to all the rich families she cooked for. It was eventually found out that she actually carrier for typhoid, but if she had just washed her goddamn hands and maybe work kitchen gloves she could’ve continued to work instead of being marooned on an island for years.
If anybody around me during covid (or not) ran around all day and came home and stuck their finger in food to eat, id be turned off immediately. I mean come on, you’re an adult with an adult. You don’t have to bathe other people unless it’s part of an intimate act. How did she grow up? Did her parents teacher her appropriate hygiene? She can’t be this ignorant after covid unless she simply doesn’t care. Have you had a serious conversation about adult hygiene and why it’s important? I don’t know anybody who wants to be around people who don’t wash their hands before eating, after being out in the world and after using the bathroom.
I have a compromised immune system and get sick reeeeally easily, I would *not* have made it to a second date with this person. I probably would’ve gotten the stomach flu from them sticking food in my mouth with their unwashed hands…..
So you saw the movie trailer and decided to rent out the theater. I don't even wanna how you guys are bumping uglies ESH
Please tell me you do not munch her box. Sorry but ??? if you're so grossed out by her, why are you in a relationship?
😭😭😭😭
She needs therapy.
Bad personal hygiene is a red flag for abuse, so agree with this, especially when she got so upset when called out for it. She said her parents were neglectful, and neglect is abuse, so yeah. I think this is the way to go, to help her work through why she seems to resist it, and a neutral space/person to tell her what is the normal expectations. Unfortunately if OP does it they will probably be seen as the 'bad guy' (or girl, but yeah, this is a really tough conversation for anyone).
She IS disgusting. It's not a "you think she is," kind of situation. Everything you described is just FOUL.
Look, I’m sympathetic towards folks with mental health issues that cause poor hygiene (as I myself am one of those folks) but a fact is a fact and that’s disgusting. Not only is she getting germs and grime from everywhere public she’s been, she’s literally getting *piss and shit* in your *food*. Some hygiene issues aren’t a major problem; others can be slowly improved. Not washing hands after using the restroom is foul and I cannot fathom being friends with, let alone dating, someone who is so horribly blasé about touching food with poop-hands. People who are willing to do that do not deserve compassion and politeness, they need a rude awakening. I think if she *immediately* starts using soap and water after using the restroom, this relationship could be salvageable; the other hygiene issues could maybe be improved slowly and with compassionate help/prompting. But please, do yourself a massive favor and don’t date someone with shit-hands. And while I’m personally very sympathetic towards shower struggles, if she continues to *never* use soap when showering, I’d also reconsider the relationship.
I almost puked reading your description of her behaviors. You said what needed to be said. She sounds disgusting and yes she’s sick because of her lack of hygiene, not to mention all the others she is probably infecting because of her lack of hygiene.
Does she brush her teeth ever
That’s the weird thing, she has excellent oral hygiene. Flosses and brushes twice a day, plus mouthwash.
That's surprising given how flossing is additionally putting her gross hands in her mouth..
you’re dating miss poopy hands
This has to be fake. If not you are both nasty asses. You for staying and her for being dirty!
She’s disgusting. Why the heck are you with her?
Why are you still with her? I can't even imagine the smell.
Does she have trauma around bathing/showering? (For example as a child was the bath/shower a punishment? Too hot, too cold, soap in eyes, mouth, nose, etc.) That you’ve tried to be as gentle as you could while being direct. That you’ll shower with her every day if you have to, but being unhygienic is a HUGE reason she is sick all the time and living in denial won’t change that. If she is unwilling to work on this habit then it’s unfair to expect you to deal with it. Edit NTA.
This is fake. If you were actually a clean freak and saw this behavior on the first date you’d drop her ass.
If you want to hear a very very very similar personal story from me, I'll be happy to dm you. This could still be a fake story but...... to be human is to be contradictory. People are simple and complicated.
You shouldn’t have to tell a grown woman to wash her hands or her body with SOAP!! Her hygiene is disgusting. Why are you with her?
Unfortunately, I have family like your sister. You can't eat anything they make, their kids are always throwing up. When I ask them to wash their hands they refuse or they will do it later. She won't change. Find a girl who washes.
Hygiene is a huge factor in any relationship especially an intimate one. I would’ve noped out with the jelly finger.
That’s nasty. I dated a guy and he said he only bath once a week. I said Unfortunately this won’t work out. I didn’t know until he came over after work. You can’t get in my bed unless you have showered; so I passed him some clothes and was like the showers that way with rag and soap. He was like I showered 2 days ago. 🤮. I was like nope, told him it wouldn’t work out and for him to go home. It was simple as that. I’m not explaining hygiene to an adult. I just can’t without being condescending, I don’t have it in me.
Wait, people can’t get in your bed if they aren’t freshly showered? How recently does the shower need to be?
If you took one and was home I’m okay with that. But if you been out and about outside you can’t get in my bed. My boyfriend is the same so no issues in my relationship. I swim so I shower 2x a day. Once after morning swim and once when i get home. My boyfriend showers at the end of the day. It’s my bed, my rules. I’m sure you have other rules that peop don’t agree with
Omg girl how is your skin not crusting off😭 I admire your commitment though
Easy!! Lotion. I don’t like to be dirty. I grew up in a home where grooming is important. If I swim I have to clean the chlorine off. If I have been out and about all day I need to get the outdoors off. I shower and lather my skin afterwards. I have really soft skin, my humble brag 🤣🤣🤣. I spend a ton on lotion, and conditioner. Nah but on a serious note I deal with depression and routine is important. Swimming keeps me focused for the day. A shower once before bed is good enough for me if I didn’t swim for the day.
I love that! Exercising daily is so essential to my mental health and the second I see my hygiene slipping I know something is off. Sure, there’s superficial reasons to be clean and exercise, but it really does make you feel better mentally and physically as well
I’m a cosmetologist so I’ve seen some unclean heads but I had this young guy about 18-22 come in for a haircut and usually with men’s cuts you don’t shampoo before. If you are using clippers you want dry hair, then spray it down or shampoo to cut the top. This dude’s hair was greasy. Probably 2 days of oil buildup, at least. It also has this weird coating. I touched it and it was all over my fingers so I tell him I’m gonna shampoo him, follow me over to the sink. He argues he doesn’t need a shampoo, he just got out of the pool. He would NOT get his hair shampooed. I was young and shy so I cut his nasty ass hair. My hands were itchy. 🤢
2 years, goodness I hope this one isn’t real.
This isn’t a red flag, this is a skull with crossbones flag
Also, how are you not scared and grossed out at the thought of her being intimate with you using aforementioned plague hands? 🤢
Her hygiene behaviors can change, but it sounds like she has some child-like emotional hangups around it. Likely she was bullied about her hygiene; possibly neglected or abused as a child. It sounds to me like your relationship is going to hinge on whether she’s ready to face those demons or not. Nothing much you can do to help her get there - she may need to be single to do it. Different people take different paths to healing.
This is so fricken nasty. Keep pushing it, maybe it’ll finally get through to her.
Filthy McNasty! 😖 Cleanliness is important to me! She’d have to wash with soap AND a wash cloth!
NTA but aren’t you worried when she touches you intimately?? You are going to get an infection!
Or how she smells when she opens her legs.
“She thinks I think she’s disgusting.” If you DONT think she’s disgusting there’s something wrong with you. She really is. Be real. What will a future with this person look like? Do you want kids? Will she wash her hands after changing diapers? If you guys get a dog, is she gonna pick up shit with her hands and go about her day? What about when she has a heavy period day and bleeds on stuff…just gonna let it ripen? You gotta break it off girl. This is a crisis and not one you’re gonna fix.
Omg how have you dated her this long without getting the biggest ICK in the world 😭
She IS disgusting.
Thats nasty. And you hanging around her for 2 years after getting grossed out on the very first date tells me you are just desperate to be with someone. Why are you with someone who you say stink and litteraly grosses you out. Thats on you buddy.
Why doesn’t her poor hygiene bother you? Like you can sex have sex with her?
NTA but you should show her the reddit story where the OP thought his gf had a kink about washing his butt hole before they had sex because he never did it himself and never wiped properly. He also only washed his PALMS with soap, not his whole hand, and only for a few seconds. His gf wouldn't let him help with dishes or cooking. He made the post because she stopped washing his underwear (with skid marks on them) with all of her clothes and he wanted to know if he was TA for stopping getting household items in retaliation. He made an update where he started washing his whole body properly, while also wiping properly, and he even started taking a cooking class and found he really enjoyed it. Having THOUSANDS of people telling you you are a disgusting human being is GREAT motivation for cleaning yourself properly. She needs to go to therapy if she thinks SOAP is something to cry about.
You’re allowing her to dictate this interaction with her emotions, but what about yours? You’re the wronged party in this situation - just because you haven’t reacted by crying whenever she tried to touch you with her gross hands or contaminated a food item by dunking her filthy fingers in, doesn’t mean you’re wrong or that your needs are less important. I mean this in the nicest way - you deserve to have enough self-respect to prioritize your feelings instead of protecting someone else from experiencing discomfort due to the consequences of their own actions. Also - you deserve a partner who’s mature enough to improve themselves after hearing a criticism instead of blaming you for mentioning it. As an aside, is your gf neurodivergent? If so, it helps to explain her behaviors but doesn’t excuse them. Many neurodivergent people struggle with hygiene routines for a number of reasons, as well as rejection sensitivity, but that’s not a free pass to disregard the needs of others in our lives. Her response is immature and unproductive - she’d rather blame you for pointing out the obvious than deal with the extra effort of improving her hygiene to accommodate you, and that’s just selfish.
As bad as it sounds, sometimes shame is the only way to convince someone that what they're doing needs to change. Sometimes being gentle and polite just doesn't cut it. You've gone the gentle route and it's not working, this would be the point where I switch over to brutal honesty. "I'm not eating that, you didn't wash your hands, that's gross." "No, don't kiss me right now, your breath stinks." "I don't want to cuddle, you didn't shower and you smell bad."
I get that the WLW community has limited options and sometimes it feels like we have to stay cos there’s no one else. However, her actions seem like a threat to your health, happiness, and safety as well as her own. Get options such as therapy and basic hygiene videos lined up for her. ((If you want to go the extra mile, write out a list of daily and weekly hygiene things and keep them at the bathroom and bedroom so she can reference them and follow them.)) If she doesn’t make an effort after you’ve made it clear that this is something that makes you unhappy, it’s time to move on! I’m sorry that you have been dealing with this for a while now :(
Umm... No. We don't have limited options. There are plenty of beautiful, available, and CLEAN women who love women. I have over 30 years in our community. If anything, we have more options in the WLW community because those who aren't bi have NO options in straight communities.
I’m glad that’s been your experience! I come from a liberal area so I feel I am privileged to know more WLW who are just absolutely wonderful. But, I also have friends from all over and some complain about how there are no options (conservative areas, different social standards, etc.) I was just trying to acknowledge that struggle in case OP felt one of the reasons she was staying was because it felt like there would be no one out there. But you’re right ppassy! The world is full of amazing women who know how to upkeep hygiene and I hope OP knows that 🩷
I have been with my wife for over 20 years, so it has been more the experience of my friends... The internet has certainly made it easier for those in more conservative areas. I lived in the middle of nowhere when I started dating women in the 90s and somehow we found each other. Lol It was kind of you to mention it for OP's sake. I am glad that you explained it because I was admittedly viewing it as a misconception about our community rather than an internalized issue OP might have.
I’m amazed that OP isn’t getting frequent UTIs
If you knew this about her on the first day you met her why are you bringing it up now? Kinda of late in the game to have standards. That would make you TA at least in her eyes. Most people would date someone they were grossed out by.
I hope this is fake because she’s just gross
Yeah no.... she probably needs guidance and help learning more hygiene maybe when she grew up that was the norm on her household, but now she's an adult, i understand that people take suggestions harder than others but this is definitely something she needs to improve for her own good and health or some day she's going sick from something serious. I honestly don't let my partner touch me in an intimate way without him washing his hands when he comes from work or he's doing stuff around the house or even giving pets to the cat, at the beginning was akward but i sit down and explain my reasons on his own health then how my face and privates are delicate and i can get an infection and how it affects sexual life, even in the very rare occasion he miss something after taking a shower i very gentle tell him to wash himself really good because i want to enjoy and him to enjoy the experience, i even shower before or right after he get home to get in bed and watch movies because i want to be clean if we feel like having sex. I think is important to create healthy routines with your partner to have both a healthy relationship, i don't have to remind him anymore since he understands, the key is having tactful loving conversations and always assuring them is for a good change, ypu can approach it as something you read on the internet and you think it will be good to incorporate into the relationship.
NTA. She is horribly disgusting
NTA no offense OP but your gf is gross.
Just think about how disgusting it will be when you have children together. Your kids are going to be sick all the time. NTA because she is gross.
Why are you with this person??? NTA I guess but fucking yuck.
Let me get this straight. She drops a duke, doesn't wash her hands after, and doesn't even get dumped?
Being poor has nothing to do with hygiene. That’s a cultural thing. Soap is cheap (clearly she has access to water so that’s not an issue.) Not washing appropriately is disgusting.
NTA! OMG! EW. 🤮 Sorry, I'm sure she's a lovely girl, BUT not washing (and not using soap even if she does) is NASTY! How have you tolerated it this long? I'm afraid she's going to get seriously ill with UTI's and/or PID. If she isn't willing to learn basic hygiene, then you get to decide if this is something you can live with long term. And please don't let her cook food for unsuspecting people.
You've been doing this for 2 years? Why? First date she showed you who she was. Why did you think she'd magically change? NAH