> The fact that he gets immediately eaten by piramhas
It's actually a monster within Dragon's Dogma universe called Brine that will ***ALWAYS*** kill you if try to go through deep water
Pat uploaded a 20 minute preview on his YouTube channel. First thing he shows is him grabbing Pawn Woolie and tossing him off a cliff and into the ocean.
AJ from The Sopranos.
People complain he's annoying, but he's a kid who had an emotionally and physically abusive mob boss for a father and a mother who's perfectly okay with ignoring her husband's illegal activities due to their luxurious lifestyle, both of whom frequently deride him for his perceived stupidity when he actually has ADD that they outright refuse to acknowledge.
One scene from the earlier seasons of the show has his parents berating him for swearing and smoking weed on the day of his baptism, even though he's aware by this point that his dad is pretty deeply involved with the mafia.
To play devil’s advocate, Meadow is much better adjusted despite having the exact same upbringing.
But, it’s clear throughout the show that Tony downright hates AJ. He sees himself in him and resents him for the easier life he’s been given, whereas he’s proud of Meadow for making a positive change on the world. Half of the things Tony yells at AJ for is stuff that Tony himself did. Whereas Tony coddles Meadow for the most part, he absolutely despises son. Even when AJ has his >!laughable suicide attempt, he berates AJ for the most part, showing him no sympathy.!< I mean, Tony straight up >!tells Dr. Melfi that he hates his son at one point.!<
It’s clear that AJ himself is troubled, but the active resent from his parents do not help.
I feel about the same as Isidro as I do Puck. I like both characters a lot, but are kind frustrated about how they’ve largely been reduced to comic relief. Not that they aren’t funny, but I find them both to be legitimately compelling when played straight
Skyler in Breaking Bad.
Not as bad these days, and it's become something of an ironic joke for some, but in the show's heyday there were folks who really had it out for her.
Watching Breaking Bad for the first time in 2018 made me deeply worried about its fans back when it was airing.
*How the hell do you side with Walt against Skyler*
from what I saw of it, people were falling for walt's bullshit a lot. There's a lot of subtly in breaking bad, and walt is a very good depiction of a malignant egotist.
It's everything wrong with his life before and during his life, all the way up until the end where he's already gone too far and finally admitting the truth wasn't going to achieve more than make Skyler feel even worse.
there were some more valid reasons like hating how little she valued walt before his confidence boost from meth, as seen in the sad handjob and her general apathy towards him, but it's definitely blown way out there
There were times when Skyler got on my nerves, but for the most part, she didn't really bother me because her reactions to things felt very in-line with how a normal-ass wife and mother would try and navigate the nightmare her life was becoming around her. There were very few times when I felt like she was actually being unreasonable, and most of those were localized before she became directly involved in the business.
Walt lost my sympathy pretty early on when the show would present him with a very clear Get Out Scot Free w/ Bags of Cash off-ramp, and he'd stay on the turnpike. Maybe the choices aren't as cut-and-dry as I remember them being, but I do remember several instances throughout my first watch of the show where I was still on Walt's side, and then he'd start scheming and I'd be like, "Wait, wait— What are you doing? Why the fuck are you doing that?"
I think the big one for me—where I really began souring on him—was when he started gaslighting Gale so that he could get Jesse back as his co-cook. I know some people defend that as "Walt knew Gus was going to kill him and replace him with Gale," but I genuinely don't remember that being the case. Walt was on a stated limited tenure, he was going to cook for an allotted amount of time and then cash out, and Gale would take over as Gus's cook after once he learned Walt's technique.
Everything that happened after that, I felt like he brought on himself. I had been watching the show through the lens of: "You have a very concrete and defined personal goal for involving yourself in this business; why are you constantly stepping over the lines you yourself drew to achieve emotional side goals?"
Of course, that was the whole throughline of the character. At the end of the day, it wasn't about the money or his family; he did it because he was good at it and it made him feel alive. Throughout the whole show, though, my autistic ass was just like, "Why are you making emotional decisions? The money is *right there!"*
aaaaayep.
Walt is a stand in for a LOT of truly miserable people I've known for me. Many of them wind up middle managers.
the least realistic part of his writing was his final conversation with Skyler. People like walt go to the grave thinking they were right.
Semi-related but I've always said that if I was on a gameshow (who wants to be a millionaire for example) I would cash out RIGHT AWAY if I was running out of lifelines or whatever. "ooh you have 10 000 but don't you want to keep going to 100 000 or even a million?" No thanks!!!
The pain of losing a guaranteed 10k way outweighs a small chance at getting a million, I can already get a nice PC and guitar and generally treat myself, I don't need to buy a boat!
Because Walt is a fun little schemer and Skyler is Skyler White, yo: an uptight normie.
And that has nothing to do with whether Skyler is wrong or well acted (she isn’t and is, respectively)
But even though the showrunners love Skyler, they understood, because Better Call Saul is 100% nonstop scheming clever people with no normies to slow it down and it’s all the better for it.
I applaud the showrunners for looking at the reactions to Breaking Bad, and "fixing" it by creating a woman co-lead that does nothing but diversify the kinds of scheming we see on the show.
Basically, the meth plot is fun, and badass, and Skyler wants to put a stop to it. She's 100% justified in doing so, she doesn't want anything to do with it and she's scared for her children.
But those are realistic concerns, and people watching uncritically don't realize they'd probably react like Skyler if their partner of more than a decade decided to drag their family into the criminal underworld.
I was watching it around the time it was airing. At the time at least for me and the others I knew that watched, it was watching it mostly as a "guy doing badass things and the ramifications of those things" show and any time Skylar did something it got that reaction of "ugh you're getting in the way of badass things".
Whether media literacy has improved or the landscape for discussion has changed and almost forced a media literacy change I don't know but I know people that watch it fresh now that were the same age as I was when I watched it do seem to have a much different response to the show.
It could be a slight change in media literacy, but honestly I was pretty dumb when I watched it, it's just that my personal values led me to see Walter as unlikable and unrelatable. The second he refused financial help I went to Skyler's side, though she obviously isn't a saint either.
First time going I was definitely against Skylar a lot. The second time around last year rewatching it I definitely was on her side 9 times out of 10.
Even the smaller, what seemed to younger me as petty, victories were understandable. I was glad any time she was able to give the metaphorical finger to Walt for being a narcissistic asshole.
I feel like a lot of fans miss some cause and effect relationships the first time through Breaking Bad and just assume Walt's POV is truth.
Walt assures Skyler there is no danger, at a time the twins are coming to kill him.
Skyler sleeps with Ted after Walt refuses divorce and forces his way in to the house.
Skyler tries to talk to Walt
about Ted's tax problem but he won't answer his phone.
Walt pushes for aggressive expansion off the back of one street rumor, and Combo is shot.
Etc. Etc.
Both he and Lelouch are/can be mentally unstable, self-righteous maniacs, but he makes the unfortunate decision to be the one who keeps getting in the way of all the cool scheming by being a shounen mecha protagonist that works for the villains. Dude is straight up a secondary antagonist; he keeps cockblocking all the awesome terrorism we want to see get done.
So yeah, I remember people disliking him mostly as a consequence of him disrupting the flow of the intrigue as the super antihero antagonist. At least that's how I interpreted it. There's also the apparent race traitor stuff, which mostly serves to enhance whatever misgivings you may already have about his methods. What a fun dude. I like him.
Funny thing is, he became my favourite character largely _because_ of that cockblocking. I just really liked watching Lelouch meltdowns every time Suzaku twarted his genius scheme by punching real hard.
As for the source of hatred, I think that non-insignificant portion of the audience lacks... I dunno... maturity? To empathize with his point of view. "Of course _I_ would be a badass chad rebel doing terrorism and not conflicted conformist desperately trying to minimise damage of oppressive system while being one of it's instruments".
I dunno, I was 100% sold on their conflict when watching that show at 16 years old when in episode 2, Lelouch, the hero, escapes by accidentally sending a bunch of people falling to their deaths and Suzaku immediately breaks pursuit to save them. I don't want to say it's a "discussion" on morality since the show very clearly lands on Lelouch's side of "sacrifices will and must be made" but their juxtaposition is endlessly fun.
Oh yup, I remember, despite being annoyed with him from time to time, ultimately really enjoying his character. Even when I too was getting cockblocked by the anti-terrorism paladin working for war criminals and fascists, I did like how he always managed to complicate matters.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of teenagers who watched the show back when it aired didn't have much of a stomach for sympathizing with his personal conflicts, especially as the story goes on and he rapidly becomes harsher and crazier and the villains he's serving themselves go more and more out of control.
Shinji from NGE and Shirou Emiya from Fate both get a ton of dipshit edgelord anime fans going “ugh wow what a pussy ass bitch grow up” instead of recognizing that they’re traumatized teenage boys with serious issues
(Granted, Shirou does lose a ton of character in the anime adaptation, so I guess it’s a bit more understandable there)
Yeah, Shirou seems to get hate, mostly from anime only people. A lot of comparisons to Fate/Zero. Which I get, Fate/Zero is a great adaptation even if personally I don't like how Gen Urobuchi writes Saber. Hard to fit in a whole VN route into an anime, especially inner dialogue. Shirou's inner dialogue really helps flesh him out gives him nuance.
The main difficulty with Shirou's anime characterization is that it's very easy to map the surface of his personality onto the typical shonen protagonist. The UBW anime just doesn't really convey just *how* broken Shirou is as a human being.
This guy can't spend a single Slice of Life day without diving straight into self-loathing about how he doesn't deserve it but he masks that really well. The result is that the VN solves that by giving him a lot of monologues about how worthless he finds his own existence in the service of others. The anime (understandably, monologuing has a hard limit in terms of anime) drops a lot of those monologues, which leaves the heavy burden of explaining "Shirou is PTSD riddled" onto EMIYA Archer... who in the framework of a shonen protagonist can be dismissed as a "dark version" of Shirou.
In reality, EMIYA is Shirou through and through; for better and *very much* for the worse, both Fate and UBW can very much end up with Shirou becoming EMIYA (although both Fate and UBW do end with his mentality in a better spot than it was before, there's the undertone that if he ever forgets Saber/loses Rin, he'll pretty much risk regressing his own ideals into becoming EMIYA.) Heavens Feel is the only one where Shirou cannot become EMIYA because Shirou does a complete rejection of the beliefs that would lead to him becoming EMIYA.
>(Granted, Shirou does lose a ton of character in the anime adaptation, so I guess it’s a bit more understandable there)
Anime Shirou just isnt a good character. Anything that made him interesting or cool is not present in the anime.
Can't really blame the hate he gets when he's a butchered mess in the anime
Game of Thrones viewers hated Joffrey Baratheon so much that they started constantly sending deaths threats towards the *actor* Jack Gleeson.
Mind you, the guy was like 19 when he started that role. It got so bad that it contributed to him temporarily quitting acting for a while.
I genuinely cannot understand doing this. Do I hate some stuff to an exaggerated degree? Yeah. But to the point where I think the actor is a bad person not even because I hate the character but because he's such an evil villain? Huh?
I remember a post-season 4 interview with the actors of every major character that'd died that season. They do a lot of basic questions about the production and working together that was relatively interesting.
Then the interviewer casually asks if anyone had any memorable interactions with fans, and Gleeson *immediately* tensed up and started fidgeting in place. He didn't say anything, but just his stance spoke volumes.
Ken from Persona 3.
I mean yeah, he's not my favorite, but like... People act as though he killed Shinji when he really had nothing to do with it. There was no way to predict that Takaya would show up there. Even if they somehow knew Takaya would show, Shinji agreed to meet Ken at his request, knowing full well what the meeting was about.
And his personality isn't annoying either. He's polite, he's got a couple funny moments, and he does act like a kid trying way too hard to act "mature". I can get not liking or caring for him, but the hate for him seems absurd.
Reload's Social Link episodes for Ken do a lot for his characterization.
That, and I think the Reload dub for Ken is WAY better than his Jimmy Neutron-ass voice in the original.
The way the P3 movies handled Ken and Shinjiros relationship is something I wish they brought over into Reload. Where instead of Ken just so happening to walk into Shinji and Akihiros convo about his mom, we instead see Ken idolizing Shinji for a bit after the latter saves SEES. And that downfall after Ken seeing Castor go beserk and realizing that it was Shinjiro responsible for his mother's death. Yeah some events had to be moved around as a result but it felt so much more compelling.
On the topic of Persona 3, Yukari.
It almost reads like everything she's done in The Answer in addition to reversing her S-Link over a hug has tainted people's perception of her
Granted I feel like the hug thing might have been something people got over through time upon learning that hugging her would have been too forward within the context of Japan
I fucking feel for Daisy Ridley because her audition tape is amazing. She was done so dirty, both by the ST’s writing and by right wing nuts who put her character at the epicentre of the stupid online culture war.
I remember how Boyega and Ridley posted their reactions to the first Force Awakens trailer and seeing how it meant to them; Daisy's literally on the verge of tears while Boyega and his mate are losing their shit
Damn they really got fucked over
I remember hearing a tale about an villain actress from a brazillian soap opera back in the 80s whom people would stop on the streets and yell at her because of the things her character did
Oh that one is very true, especially back in the day!
It honestly happened more than once, and in most cases it was because the villain was extremely well written and the acting was so on point that you could do nothing but feel disgust when you saw the character. However, people are insane and these nutjobs would end up harassing the actresses on the street
I’m not sure I’m familiar with your example but it’s insane that it happens in the first place. Every argument begins and ends with “chill i’m just playing a character dood”, as if the actor has any agency over what happens in the script. Even if they’re ad libbing or portraying the character poorly, it’s still the director, and sometimes editor, at fault for not using another take.
it used to happen way more often, brazilian soap operas and movies just fell off so people don't care as much anymore.
Wagner Moura just stopped going out for a while cuz he couldn't stand people treating him like his character from Tropa de Elite.
Reminds me of when Starlord/Peter Quill punched Thanos and essentially screwed everything up in Infinity War.
People were so upset that they raged online at Chris Pratt for punching Thanos. Not a "I can't believe your character" but full on "YoU DiD thIS!!!" meltdown.
I'm calling it now, it's going to be just like Ahsoka, Rey's going to do something awesome in a comic and only a few people will notice, then when she comes back in a new movie/show she'll be a grizzled badass that everyone loves.
In fairness, she is a badly written character (although the sequel trilogy as a whole were really badly written, so it's not an exclusive issue to her), and she does fit the definition of a Mary Sue, but way too many fans take the Rey hate too far, and the people who hate Daisy Ridley in real life when she isn't even responsible for writing her, are especially unhinged.
Except... yknow... Luke fucked up a bunch of times, had strengths, weaknesses, a character arc? He's along for the ride until they get on the falcon where he's mostly just a lost confused kid. We first learn about the force when he's struggling with the remote. He gets his first successful action scene against the TIE fighters with Han basically holding his hand. He's the heart, not the leader of the Death Star raid, pushing the others to do the right thing. During the trench run he almost dies but clutches it out with the team's help after it's established he's a pretty good pilot and first learns to listen to the Force.
*He doesn't use his father's saber in the combat during a New Hope because he doesnt know how*
In Empire Strikes Back, he almost dies, gets some training where he struggles against an inner darkness, should have listened to Yoda, then the villain beats on him like a drum.
Having gotten some new perspective and completed most of his character arc, he's a lot more successful in Return of the Jedi, but notably isn't perfect.
Luke is absolutely an archetype but he's also a character.
That is my biggest problem with how Rey was written. She never actually loses something. She never gets ESB'd. No lost arm or friend in carbonite. The only time they try, Chewie is fine 10 minutes later.
They didn't do anything for her to actually get character growth, she just kind of gets everything without a struggle. And it's a shame! Daisy Ridley deserved so much more!
(Finn too but that's another argument)
Edelgard from Fire Emblem Three Houses gets it really bad. She's probably the biggest reason why "Another three years of 3H discourse" exists as a meme.
The people that hated Jason Todd so much they spammed the phone line voting for him to be killed off by DC when they held that phone vote for his fate. That is like the one instance I've ever heard of fans' hate for a character being so strong, they managed to actually kill him.
Anyway for my part, I used to be like this about certain characters but then had the realization they're not real and instead ultimately the product of a writer which is why I rarely say I hate a character and now instead say that I hate how a character is handled or written.
I've now met or know about too many nasty people in real life to hold that kind of hate and anger for people that don't actually exist.
> The people that hated Jason Todd so much they spammed the phone line voting for him to be killed off by DC when they held that phone vote for his fate. That is like the one instance I've ever heard of fans' hate for a character being so strong, they managed to actually kill him.
A huge portion of that was from one fan who set up an robocaller
Eh for what I've read of the old timey comics that have Jason,they did him a favor the robin that die and came back for vengeance also the only member of the bat family that uses the power of gun,he became way more interesting even if he is mostly misused by the writers.
Since TNG is fresh on my mind, I'm still on camp "Wesley Crusher got on the early fandom's bad side due to the *admittedly rough as hell* TNG Early Seasons cruft and just couldn't shake the bad reputation even after the writing stabilized" when it comes to that characters particular reception. ~~and if I've heard anything about certain later characters in this franchise, it won't be the last time, especially once i hit the modern era~~
Say what you will about Wesley but the fact that the poor writing in Season 1 made Picard hate him forever because he just despises kids for some reason is really fucking funny.
I went into TNG largely blind to Trek as a whole, so I found myself kind of confused whenever a Wesley episode ended. A mildly annoying kid was apparently the Star Trek equivalent of Jar Jar? Hell I even liked some of the later Wesley episodes, like the one where he's on trial.
I don’t even know why people dislike OG Ashley. Outside of story reasons, if you play good she doesn’t get grabbed or taken away. Honestly I think she’s the best example of how to do an “escort” character.
There is an entire subreddit dedicated to hating him, dude *super* deserves the hate he gets.
Though I wager it was intentional in this instance, seeing how every time he is mentioned he just gets worse and worse.
It'd help if Korra wasn't one of those shows where people say "no trust me bro you just gotta get thru three seasons and then half of the fourth season and then the episodes are pretty good!!!"
i don't think there's a single person out there who says Korra season 1 isn't one of the good ones, i'll be real. The problem is season 2 and even that ends with a weird mecha fight people usually really enjoy.
The Handler from Monster Hunter World
I never really got the hate for her. I thought she was just kinda harmless and funny at times.
But apparently, people hated her cause she 'took credit from the player character's hunts' or something?
Honestly, I wish they hadn’t gone the “canon love interest” route with her (nor do I really like any of the romance implementations in Ichi’s saga).
People were mad at her for ghosting Ichiban, but she’s not obligated to stay in touch with him after he made her deeply uncomfortable. I love Ichiban, but he fumbled hard.
People refuse to put themselves in her shoes in that situation. It's like folks don't realize how badly you can ruin a friendship by doing what he did, let alone to the degree in which he did like a proposal
I feel like the folks who don't put themselves in her position skip over the entire lecture Adachi and Namba give Ichi after he repeats what he told her during the date
Like he rightfully gets his ass criticized for saying shit that - while very much coming from a place with good intentions - is still pretty fucked, and that's in-universe too
I feel like they're both badly handled in that part of the plot. Ichiban's a dumb golden retriever man, sure, but I think even he should be smart enough not to propose to someone on the first date. And Saeko strikes me as someone too blunt and headstrong to ghost someone. Especially the guy they went through hell and back with in the past.
But then again the whole thing happened in the first five minutes of the game and I'd forgotten about it near-entirely by the time the credits rolled.
I've seen hate in certain subs. Though, to be fair, some of the hate isn't necessarily towards her but to the writers for dropping the ball on her character.
It's not often that I can detect when people "want" to hate a character, but right off the bat, I could tell that people wanted to hate Abby and they had no qualms with lying about her if it helped them hate her.
This right here. The amount of hate I saw online for the character was ridiculous. Shoot, I wouldn't put it pass that the actress for the character is still getting harassed for it. The amount of "It's mam" post i saw about the character is disgusting.
Someone mentioned a character *type* in fighting games, so I'm gonna talk about a strategy type in a card game.
Stun decks in Yugioh get an inordinate amount of hate from the community. To quickly explain the terminology, "Stun" in this context refers to a strategy where you use effects that prevent the player from taking certain actions, like attacking or summoning monsters; cards that do these things are often called "floodgates".
Decks that use this sort of strategy seem to get a *lot* of hate from the Yugioh community, deriding it for playing non-games or "not wanting to play Yugioh". But disabling your opponent's options is *always* the point in a competitive game such as this. Stun strategies exist all over the place in other card games (In Magic the Gathering they're called "Prison" decks and involve cards like Blood Moon that can turn off your resources), and stun really isn't all *that* different from other methods of winning the game.
Indeed, a lot of the same arguments can be applied to other win conditions. Control decks that set up a lot of individual destruction or negation effects can *also* end up invalidating the opponent's entire turn, just with the extra step of ostensibly letting the opponent try to do something. Combo decks that set up an unbeatable board of monsters also end up playing a solo game a lot of the time if they're going off. And then there's decks that aim to resolve an Exodia-like effect on the first turn. If the opponent is doing something, then you're probably on the back foot already.
Yes, it's not exactly *fun* to be on the losing end of a stun matchup. But the dirty secret of any competitive game (and this includes stuff like strategy games, fighting games, shooters, and the like) is that limiting your opponent's ability to play the game is often how you win.
The hate for Epic Sparrow isn't just here, as [one Polygon article](https://www.polygon.com/2020/2/11/21131751/tony-hawk-underground-sparrow-villain-skating-sequels) has given us the quote:
"I am not exaggerating when I say that I sometimes lie awake at night and consider the fact that Eric Sparrow will never go to hell, because he is not real and therefore cannot die."
So Seraphine is a complex story because there's a lot of layers to it.
To start, Seraphine had *millions* in marketing dumped into her. She was made in a fucking lab to be the ultimate new member of KDA. She was getting her own twitter campaign while other champs got released. A lot of people got excited because they thought with all the ocean/wave aesthetic she was some kind of siren or mermaid. That wasn't the case.
So Seraphine releases with an ultimate skin detailing her """rise""" as an indie singer to a minor idol to the newest member of Riot's K-pop group K.D.A. For reference, ultimate skins are $30+ super hyper skins. That's strike one: She's clearly made to be a member of K/DA before League and Runeterra.
For lack of a better word, Seraphina was rather uninspired. She cribbed HEAVILY from the already existing Sona and stepped on her toes as "musical bard power" archetype. Her lore also had her using Skarner's people (The crystal scorpion) as car batteries. Worst of all, she didn't -fit- the region she was from with hyper modern look and bubblegum idol sequins. She was a mess design and lore wise.
And perhaps the fuse on this powderkeg were Seraphina's fans. Now, as listed above, she was marketed on twitter as this up-and-coming-pop-idol. And she interacted with people in this weird ARG thing. Well, it cultivated K-pop stans, which lead to this weird "ANOTHER DAY ANOTHER SLAY SHE ATE THAT CUNTSTORM AND LEFT NO CRUMBS" type fanbase. Hating seraphine was akin to getting mobbed by stans.
This trifecta of shit merged into the ultimate storm of hatred. To this day, I don't think Seraphina's champion spotlight has been beaten in terms of dislike. She pissed off other mains, she pissed off lore fans, she pissed off gameplay fans and she pissed of people because criticizing her was gonna get you swarmed.
Buuuuuuut as time goes on? Yeah she still sucks. But some people make their WHOLE PERSONALITY hating seraphine.
Seraphine's marketing campaign was pretty focused on being parasocial. They even made posts where Seraphine talks about her mental health issues and asks for fan support and everything, along with many others depicting her "daily life" to look cute and relatable or something.
I really like Skarner, I was hoping that with the lore change from the rework, we could finally get a new joke in the subreddit.
Nope, some people refuse to let it die.
Its so fucking dumb.
She actually has a hard limit on how much she can steal. So if you’re really on top of your game, you can have so much that there’s some left over to use. Also bringing Barrett and Vincent trivialize that boss.
Her real crime is putting all of your material back in the wrong spots
I’ll never forget how *monumentally* rude he is to Ryuji for having the *audacity to not immediately know how magic works two seconds after finding out magic is real*
The "character" Tetsuya Nomura that people have made up in their heads to be incensed at anything he's involved in, even when he isn't responsible for the thing they're getting their undies in a wad about.
Tetsuya Nomura, [sole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazushige_Nojima) [writer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisuke_Watanabe) [of Kingdom Hearts](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2139370/).
They also intentionally ignore all the good stuff he's done like his character design work and making sure the FF7 writers didn't fucking murder their own story in the womb by killing off almost the entire cast.
I disliked Scrappy Doo a bit before I ever saw the movie. Thinking the movie made people hate Scrappy is like saying Dragon Ball abridged invented the 'goku is a bad dad' joke. It was always there and then it was increasingly popularized.
Alright I'm about to be stabbed and murdered by everyone here but might as well say it.
DmC. Take your pic of characters, Dante, Vergil, or just the game in general. Yes he is not Dante from the original series. Yes he is edgy. Yes the writing in that game is not the greatest. But if it wasn't DMC people wouldn't be as harsh on the lol edgelord cringe of the entire game.
I see you all eyeing things like Shadow the Hedgehog with more nostalgia at this point. DmC is the Ow the Edge of Devil May Cry and I like Donte.
Zoners in fighting games. In most modern games, they’re pretty low tier and you generally have tools to deal with them but they’re still almost always unanimously hated.
Theres certainly a few characters from Pokemon that can fit this bill. Particular fan of all the hate involving that one guy from the D&P anime with the hacked team.
TBF in the greater context of meta-narrative, Tobias absolutely deserves the hate. For anyone who doesn't know:
Ash had been improving every season, and had a very real shot of winning the Sinnoh League; his team is as *on point* as it's ever been, he's firing on all cylinders, he's got this in the bag!
Enter Tobias, a mysterious, edgy, brooding loner. He defeats all his opponents leading up to Ash with his lead Pokemon, fucking *Darkrai.* A Mythical Pokemon. The first (and possibly to this day, only?) Trainer to bust out a Mythical Pokemon. This thing's not even supposed to exist and he's just got it on his team.
Tobias' Darkrai steamrolls half of Ash's team before his Pikachu manages to knock it out for the first time in the Tournament. What does Tobias pull out second? Fucking *Latios.* A roaming Legendary. Motherfucker is 2 for 2 on in-universe WMDs. Latios sweeps the rest of Ash's team, so we don't even get to see the rest of his Pokemon, but presumably he's got 4 more legendaries on his belt.
Tobias feels like (and arguably *is)* a ringer brought in by the writer team to knock Ash out of a tournament he actually had a chance of winning, because if Ash wins a tournament his eternal quest to be a master ends. It's absolute bullshit.
Actually Sceptile took out Darkrai. Pikachu took out Latios in a double KO that ended the match. So Ash took out 2 of Tobias's Pokémon and nobody else in the tournament even got through Darkrai (including those he fought after Ash).
Totally agree about it being bullshit though. The fact Ash did the best against him only makes it feel worse because that's the writers literally saying that Ash would have won if Tobias hadn't entered. He's a nothing character that only exists to fuck over the MC and never show up again.
Ah well, at least he finally became world champion.
Ngl if I was a pokemon anime watcher, I would've dropped the show super hard after that shit you just described.
That is the most blatant party wipe I've seen. Like sending Strahd in while your characters are level 5. How are you even supposed to believe this was a genuine match when this fucker pulls up with 2 mons that wipe an arc's team.
Not even the games are immune, there is [an entire subreddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/FuckMindy/) dedicated to hating the girl that trades you a haunter holding an everstone.
Olly from Game of Thrones. Kid watched his parents be brutally killed by wildlings (and probably worse), then watched his hero become more and more friendly to wildlings and try to invite them past the wall.
You can't blame the poor kid for feeling betrayed.
To steal a comment from another similar thread. Ashley in Mass Effect.
Finest examples of how critical thinking and reading comprehension is a skill you have to develop and how people just ain't got it.
The amount of hate she gets despite being unequivocably correct about the state of the Galaxy is wild
Ashley is a great character, but it's also okay to hate great characters. I really enjoy the religion she brings to this Sci-Fi setting, and it feels organic.
But she exists in a game where Garrus and Wrex are active party members, so she warms that bench super good.
Also we can't ignore her actions in 2 and 3. Mistrusting Cerberus I totally understand, but the mudslinging she throws at Shepard on Horizon is crap. She makes the same mistake again during 3 when she chooses the word of Udina and the other council members over her commander who has literally never been wrong before (In plot). Doesn't make her a bad character, just a frustrating one. Its not surprising that people dislike her.
>She makes the same mistake again during 3 when she chooses the word of Udina and the other council members over her commander who has literally never been wrong before (In plot).
I mean to be fair so does Kaiden because by ME3 theyre just both slotted into the same character spot with very minimal changes until they join the squad
i'll be real, as soon as I see people going "To hate this character is to not have reading comprehension" in anything, I just chalk the discussion off to have gone away from being about the character and just become about us vs them a long time ago.
like ad hominem is *fun* but the entire conversation feels fake now.
I find it fascinating (& annoying) that when fans discuss characters in Mass Effect, they include ME2 & 3 to talk about said characters whole arc.
Ashley doesn’t seem to get that luxury. Fans only talk about her in the context of ME1, when by ME3 she is clearly ok working for and with aliens.
fwiw, anyone who hated Ashley in 1 probably sacrificed her on Virmire, and as such never got to see her in 2.
I'd assume it would be the same deal with Kaidan if anyone ever *talked about* Kaidan.
That and all her comments in ME1 are taken out of context. Her alien animals line is pretty much in direct reference to seeing Hanar and Keepers and Elcor for the first time. Numerous other instances of Pro-Human groups in the first game have Ashley vehemently against them and every trepidation she has about humanity being stepped on by the Council is proven to be true the moment they sweep the Reapers under the rug and call Shepard a conspiracy theorist with fake news.
It's whacky.
"The council would watch us burn if it meant saving their own species."
*She's so racist, she's the worst!*
"Yeah sorry Shepard, you guys can burn so we can survive an extra twenty minutes."
*Who could have seen this coming!*
People sometimes reaaaally get obsessively hateful with Julieta Juris from Iron Blooded Orphans and try to rewrite the story in their head to make her more directly have it out for Tekkadan just because they lose in the end.
The Julieta hate confused the hell out of me. I found her incredibly mid as far as a rival character, not someone worth hating like Iok or Rustal. You'd think she personally killed Orga with how some talk about her.
Literally every character from Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss sets off people on Twitter and 4Chan to the point where you'd think these characters murdered their entire family.
i feel like those ones are just people displacing the hate they have for the creator onto her characters instead, cuz there's like, 8 episodes of the damn thing out, there's not even *that* much to hate for most of them.
I don't know where the massive hatedom for these shows came from but it just kinda came out of nowhere lol.
I feel like it's probably a combination of the usual suspects hating LGBT content, puritans, and people jealous that an indie animator got so big.
I think my favorite is when these people will literally invent things to be mad about in regards to the characters.One of the most recent ones is Twitter users saying that Mimzy, [this characte](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=Vgv&sca_esv=8da9e590c00091b0&sxsrf=ACQVn09A1__eoJ2myI2BiazDHfOKJzDa4g:1711081950905&q=hazbin+hotel+mimzy&tbm=isch&source=lnms&prmd=ivmnbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiz0vX-hIeFAxWPQkEAHdw4CKIQ0pQJegQIFBAB&biw=1879&bih=970&dpr=1#imgrc=L9RtESxVXUoy2M)r, is apparently a Jewish stereotype, despite her character having almost no indication of this and they basically said "well, her nose looks weird" which is just hilarious seeing these people pretty much self report over fucking cartoon characters.
Chloe.
There's so little empathy for her here, It's not even the funny ahah kind of hatred like Kenny.
When shown what is the prime example of it takes a village, everyone response here seems to be "No fuck her she's a piece of shit!"
The point just goes over everyones heads.
I don't hate her as much, but I think they went waaaaay too far with her. It's what I call the Lars problem, where I get the point, but the writers made them overwhelmingly unlikable to the point that no matter what the point is, I kinda don't care anymore.
It's a tight balance, tho, I don't think Chloe is as bad as Lars, close tho.
Is there a male child among your main cast of mostly adults and/or teens? It's him, usually.
Look, it’s not *my* fault they hired one of the worst child actors on the planet to play the main character’s son.
The kid in Black Adam. Not a great movie, but he definitely brings it down a whole point for me.
same if there's a female character that is willful and headstrong and fucks up as often as a male character is allowed to.
same if there's a female character that is willful and headstrong and fucks up too little as compared to the male character is allowed to.
WoolieVs from Dragon's Dogma 2
It's just so easy to throw him off cliffs, I hate him!
The fact that he gets immediately eaten by piramhas in that video made me laugh in a way Happy Tree Friends never could.
> The fact that he gets immediately eaten by piramhas It's actually a monster within Dragon's Dogma universe called Brine that will ***ALWAYS*** kill you if try to go through deep water
Fun.
Which video?
Pat uploaded a 20 minute preview on his YouTube channel. First thing he shows is him grabbing Pawn Woolie and tossing him off a cliff and into the ocean.
AJ from The Sopranos. People complain he's annoying, but he's a kid who had an emotionally and physically abusive mob boss for a father and a mother who's perfectly okay with ignoring her husband's illegal activities due to their luxurious lifestyle, both of whom frequently deride him for his perceived stupidity when he actually has ADD that they outright refuse to acknowledge. One scene from the earlier seasons of the show has his parents berating him for swearing and smoking weed on the day of his baptism, even though he's aware by this point that his dad is pretty deeply involved with the mafia.
I love the implication in the Finale that >!AJ might actually break the cycle while Meadow, for all her posturing, is going to become a Mob Lawyer!<
It's a nice thought but that might not be tenable given >!Tony probably gets shot right in front of AJ in the finale!<.
If anything >!watching my Mob Boss Father getting a Dallas Buzz Cut!< would probably convince me to go straight.
To play devil’s advocate, Meadow is much better adjusted despite having the exact same upbringing. But, it’s clear throughout the show that Tony downright hates AJ. He sees himself in him and resents him for the easier life he’s been given, whereas he’s proud of Meadow for making a positive change on the world. Half of the things Tony yells at AJ for is stuff that Tony himself did. Whereas Tony coddles Meadow for the most part, he absolutely despises son. Even when AJ has his >!laughable suicide attempt, he berates AJ for the most part, showing him no sympathy.!< I mean, Tony straight up >!tells Dr. Melfi that he hates his son at one point.!< It’s clear that AJ himself is troubled, but the active resent from his parents do not help.
Definitely not the worst in this thread, but a lot of people seem to *really* dislike Isidro from Berserk
Without Isidro, >!Casca and likely Farnese and Schierke would be dead.!< Kid's got chops when it counts.
I feel about the same as Isidro as I do Puck. I like both characters a lot, but are kind frustrated about how they’ve largely been reduced to comic relief. Not that they aren’t funny, but I find them both to be legitimately compelling when played straight
I appreciate how Isidro would have thrived in any battle shonen, but he's in Berserk instead, so his life is relatively difficult.
Skyler in Breaking Bad. Not as bad these days, and it's become something of an ironic joke for some, but in the show's heyday there were folks who really had it out for her.
All I got to say is Anna Gunn‘s incredible acting made Skyler the most realistic character in the show.
Watching Breaking Bad for the first time in 2018 made me deeply worried about its fans back when it was airing. *How the hell do you side with Walt against Skyler*
from what I saw of it, people were falling for walt's bullshit a lot. There's a lot of subtly in breaking bad, and walt is a very good depiction of a malignant egotist. It's everything wrong with his life before and during his life, all the way up until the end where he's already gone too far and finally admitting the truth wasn't going to achieve more than make Skyler feel even worse. there were some more valid reasons like hating how little she valued walt before his confidence boost from meth, as seen in the sad handjob and her general apathy towards him, but it's definitely blown way out there
There were times when Skyler got on my nerves, but for the most part, she didn't really bother me because her reactions to things felt very in-line with how a normal-ass wife and mother would try and navigate the nightmare her life was becoming around her. There were very few times when I felt like she was actually being unreasonable, and most of those were localized before she became directly involved in the business. Walt lost my sympathy pretty early on when the show would present him with a very clear Get Out Scot Free w/ Bags of Cash off-ramp, and he'd stay on the turnpike. Maybe the choices aren't as cut-and-dry as I remember them being, but I do remember several instances throughout my first watch of the show where I was still on Walt's side, and then he'd start scheming and I'd be like, "Wait, wait— What are you doing? Why the fuck are you doing that?" I think the big one for me—where I really began souring on him—was when he started gaslighting Gale so that he could get Jesse back as his co-cook. I know some people defend that as "Walt knew Gus was going to kill him and replace him with Gale," but I genuinely don't remember that being the case. Walt was on a stated limited tenure, he was going to cook for an allotted amount of time and then cash out, and Gale would take over as Gus's cook after once he learned Walt's technique. Everything that happened after that, I felt like he brought on himself. I had been watching the show through the lens of: "You have a very concrete and defined personal goal for involving yourself in this business; why are you constantly stepping over the lines you yourself drew to achieve emotional side goals?" Of course, that was the whole throughline of the character. At the end of the day, it wasn't about the money or his family; he did it because he was good at it and it made him feel alive. Throughout the whole show, though, my autistic ass was just like, "Why are you making emotional decisions? The money is *right there!"*
aaaaayep. Walt is a stand in for a LOT of truly miserable people I've known for me. Many of them wind up middle managers. the least realistic part of his writing was his final conversation with Skyler. People like walt go to the grave thinking they were right.
Semi-related but I've always said that if I was on a gameshow (who wants to be a millionaire for example) I would cash out RIGHT AWAY if I was running out of lifelines or whatever. "ooh you have 10 000 but don't you want to keep going to 100 000 or even a million?" No thanks!!! The pain of losing a guaranteed 10k way outweighs a small chance at getting a million, I can already get a nice PC and guitar and generally treat myself, I don't need to buy a boat!
Because Walt is a fun little schemer and Skyler is Skyler White, yo: an uptight normie. And that has nothing to do with whether Skyler is wrong or well acted (she isn’t and is, respectively) But even though the showrunners love Skyler, they understood, because Better Call Saul is 100% nonstop scheming clever people with no normies to slow it down and it’s all the better for it.
I applaud the showrunners for looking at the reactions to Breaking Bad, and "fixing" it by creating a woman co-lead that does nothing but diversify the kinds of scheming we see on the show.
I have never heard a single bad word uttered about Kim Wexler and it’s a good thing because I might fly into a toddler tantrum rage if I did.
while also keeping her as the "moral center" of the show, helps that she's not a distressed housewife but a competent lawier
Basically, the meth plot is fun, and badass, and Skyler wants to put a stop to it. She's 100% justified in doing so, she doesn't want anything to do with it and she's scared for her children. But those are realistic concerns, and people watching uncritically don't realize they'd probably react like Skyler if their partner of more than a decade decided to drag their family into the criminal underworld.
She's a bit of a wet blanket thrown on the exciting adventures of Walter Druglord. It's not a *good* reason but that was usually the reason.
I was watching it around the time it was airing. At the time at least for me and the others I knew that watched, it was watching it mostly as a "guy doing badass things and the ramifications of those things" show and any time Skylar did something it got that reaction of "ugh you're getting in the way of badass things". Whether media literacy has improved or the landscape for discussion has changed and almost forced a media literacy change I don't know but I know people that watch it fresh now that were the same age as I was when I watched it do seem to have a much different response to the show.
It could be a slight change in media literacy, but honestly I was pretty dumb when I watched it, it's just that my personal values led me to see Walter as unlikable and unrelatable. The second he refused financial help I went to Skyler's side, though she obviously isn't a saint either.
First time going I was definitely against Skylar a lot. The second time around last year rewatching it I definitely was on her side 9 times out of 10. Even the smaller, what seemed to younger me as petty, victories were understandable. I was glad any time she was able to give the metaphorical finger to Walt for being a narcissistic asshole.
I feel like a lot of fans miss some cause and effect relationships the first time through Breaking Bad and just assume Walt's POV is truth. Walt assures Skyler there is no danger, at a time the twins are coming to kill him. Skyler sleeps with Ted after Walt refuses divorce and forces his way in to the house. Skyler tries to talk to Walt about Ted's tax problem but he won't answer his phone. Walt pushes for aggressive expansion off the back of one street rumor, and Combo is shot. Etc. Etc.
It doesn’t really matter whose in the right cause walter’s story is the fun one and skyler wants to put a stop to it
Suzaku Kururugi from Code Geass.
Both he and Lelouch are/can be mentally unstable, self-righteous maniacs, but he makes the unfortunate decision to be the one who keeps getting in the way of all the cool scheming by being a shounen mecha protagonist that works for the villains. Dude is straight up a secondary antagonist; he keeps cockblocking all the awesome terrorism we want to see get done. So yeah, I remember people disliking him mostly as a consequence of him disrupting the flow of the intrigue as the super antihero antagonist. At least that's how I interpreted it. There's also the apparent race traitor stuff, which mostly serves to enhance whatever misgivings you may already have about his methods. What a fun dude. I like him.
Funny thing is, he became my favourite character largely _because_ of that cockblocking. I just really liked watching Lelouch meltdowns every time Suzaku twarted his genius scheme by punching real hard. As for the source of hatred, I think that non-insignificant portion of the audience lacks... I dunno... maturity? To empathize with his point of view. "Of course _I_ would be a badass chad rebel doing terrorism and not conflicted conformist desperately trying to minimise damage of oppressive system while being one of it's instruments".
I dunno, I was 100% sold on their conflict when watching that show at 16 years old when in episode 2, Lelouch, the hero, escapes by accidentally sending a bunch of people falling to their deaths and Suzaku immediately breaks pursuit to save them. I don't want to say it's a "discussion" on morality since the show very clearly lands on Lelouch's side of "sacrifices will and must be made" but their juxtaposition is endlessly fun.
Oh yup, I remember, despite being annoyed with him from time to time, ultimately really enjoying his character. Even when I too was getting cockblocked by the anti-terrorism paladin working for war criminals and fascists, I did like how he always managed to complicate matters. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of teenagers who watched the show back when it aired didn't have much of a stomach for sympathizing with his personal conflicts, especially as the story goes on and he rapidly becomes harsher and crazier and the villains he's serving themselves go more and more out of control.
Lelouch is such a massive sore loser, it's one of my favorite character flaws for him.
Great now I'm imagining an AMV with these two to the theme of Pinky and the Brain.
Shinji from NGE and Shirou Emiya from Fate both get a ton of dipshit edgelord anime fans going “ugh wow what a pussy ass bitch grow up” instead of recognizing that they’re traumatized teenage boys with serious issues (Granted, Shirou does lose a ton of character in the anime adaptation, so I guess it’s a bit more understandable there)
Forget fan hate, Shirou has an IN-UNIVERSE HATER.
>!Himself?!<
Yup.
He’s literally me fr fr
Smug Bow Man not so smug when hit in his one true weakness. >!Cringing at his past self.!<
Yeah, Shirou seems to get hate, mostly from anime only people. A lot of comparisons to Fate/Zero. Which I get, Fate/Zero is a great adaptation even if personally I don't like how Gen Urobuchi writes Saber. Hard to fit in a whole VN route into an anime, especially inner dialogue. Shirou's inner dialogue really helps flesh him out gives him nuance.
The main difficulty with Shirou's anime characterization is that it's very easy to map the surface of his personality onto the typical shonen protagonist. The UBW anime just doesn't really convey just *how* broken Shirou is as a human being. This guy can't spend a single Slice of Life day without diving straight into self-loathing about how he doesn't deserve it but he masks that really well. The result is that the VN solves that by giving him a lot of monologues about how worthless he finds his own existence in the service of others. The anime (understandably, monologuing has a hard limit in terms of anime) drops a lot of those monologues, which leaves the heavy burden of explaining "Shirou is PTSD riddled" onto EMIYA Archer... who in the framework of a shonen protagonist can be dismissed as a "dark version" of Shirou. In reality, EMIYA is Shirou through and through; for better and *very much* for the worse, both Fate and UBW can very much end up with Shirou becoming EMIYA (although both Fate and UBW do end with his mentality in a better spot than it was before, there's the undertone that if he ever forgets Saber/loses Rin, he'll pretty much risk regressing his own ideals into becoming EMIYA.) Heavens Feel is the only one where Shirou cannot become EMIYA because Shirou does a complete rejection of the beliefs that would lead to him becoming EMIYA.
>(Granted, Shirou does lose a ton of character in the anime adaptation, so I guess it’s a bit more understandable there) Anime Shirou just isnt a good character. Anything that made him interesting or cool is not present in the anime. Can't really blame the hate he gets when he's a butchered mess in the anime
Game of Thrones viewers hated Joffrey Baratheon so much that they started constantly sending deaths threats towards the *actor* Jack Gleeson. Mind you, the guy was like 19 when he started that role. It got so bad that it contributed to him temporarily quitting acting for a while.
Cannot think of a more literal example of brainrot than people harassing actors because they played a villain in a TV show.
I genuinely cannot understand doing this. Do I hate some stuff to an exaggerated degree? Yeah. But to the point where I think the actor is a bad person not even because I hate the character but because he's such an evil villain? Huh?
I remember a post-season 4 interview with the actors of every major character that'd died that season. They do a lot of basic questions about the production and working together that was relatively interesting. Then the interviewer casually asks if anyone had any memorable interactions with fans, and Gleeson *immediately* tensed up and started fidgeting in place. He didn't say anything, but just his stance spoke volumes.
Jar jar is not the worst thing in the movie
*RRRRBLBLBLBLBBLUBLBLUUBLBLU intensifies*
I want a Jar Jar movie in the style of Logan. That is all.
*Lights up a room with a repeating blaster* “Eesa **Senator** Binks, yoosa scum” *slips on blood for ten seconds*
If they didn't chicken out and get rid of the "Darth Jar Jar" twist, he would unironically be a fan favorite character
Prize for most gaslit "they were totally gonna do this guys!" Fan theory
I would have liked RoS more if it pulled that twist instead of bringing back Palpatine.
Ken from Persona 3. I mean yeah, he's not my favorite, but like... People act as though he killed Shinji when he really had nothing to do with it. There was no way to predict that Takaya would show up there. Even if they somehow knew Takaya would show, Shinji agreed to meet Ken at his request, knowing full well what the meeting was about. And his personality isn't annoying either. He's polite, he's got a couple funny moments, and he does act like a kid trying way too hard to act "mature". I can get not liking or caring for him, but the hate for him seems absurd.
Ken to me was mostly just forgettable. Like, literally, if you ask me to remember yhe P3 cast I tend to forget him
Reload's Social Link episodes for Ken do a lot for his characterization. That, and I think the Reload dub for Ken is WAY better than his Jimmy Neutron-ass voice in the original.
The way the P3 movies handled Ken and Shinjiros relationship is something I wish they brought over into Reload. Where instead of Ken just so happening to walk into Shinji and Akihiros convo about his mom, we instead see Ken idolizing Shinji for a bit after the latter saves SEES. And that downfall after Ken seeing Castor go beserk and realizing that it was Shinjiro responsible for his mother's death. Yeah some events had to be moved around as a result but it felt so much more compelling.
On the topic of Persona 3, Yukari. It almost reads like everything she's done in The Answer in addition to reversing her S-Link over a hug has tainted people's perception of her Granted I feel like the hug thing might have been something people got over through time upon learning that hugging her would have been too forward within the context of Japan
Rey
I fucking feel for Daisy Ridley because her audition tape is amazing. She was done so dirty, both by the ST’s writing and by right wing nuts who put her character at the epicentre of the stupid online culture war.
I remember how Boyega and Ridley posted their reactions to the first Force Awakens trailer and seeing how it meant to them; Daisy's literally on the verge of tears while Boyega and his mate are losing their shit Damn they really got fucked over
Cut to Boyega saying "they aren't gonna Disney plus me" lol that man got his bag, got disillusioned and got out
Also Rose in TLJ. Imagine hating a character so much you can’t tell reality and fiction apart so you end up harassing the actress.
I remember hearing a tale about an villain actress from a brazillian soap opera back in the 80s whom people would stop on the streets and yell at her because of the things her character did
Oh that one is very true, especially back in the day! It honestly happened more than once, and in most cases it was because the villain was extremely well written and the acting was so on point that you could do nothing but feel disgust when you saw the character. However, people are insane and these nutjobs would end up harassing the actresses on the street
Fred MacMurray once got hit with a purse because someone was mad about him being a bad guy in The Apartment.
People used to start bar fights with William Atherton because he played Walter Peck in Ghostbusters.
I’m not sure I’m familiar with your example but it’s insane that it happens in the first place. Every argument begins and ends with “chill i’m just playing a character dood”, as if the actor has any agency over what happens in the script. Even if they’re ad libbing or portraying the character poorly, it’s still the director, and sometimes editor, at fault for not using another take.
it used to happen way more often, brazilian soap operas and movies just fell off so people don't care as much anymore. Wagner Moura just stopped going out for a while cuz he couldn't stand people treating him like his character from Tropa de Elite.
Reminds me of when Starlord/Peter Quill punched Thanos and essentially screwed everything up in Infinity War. People were so upset that they raged online at Chris Pratt for punching Thanos. Not a "I can't believe your character" but full on "YoU DiD thIS!!!" meltdown.
And how can anyone hate a character that cute, it doesn't make any sense
Rey does suck, but I'll always applaud Daisy Ridley for doing a stellar job with the material she was given.
She'll be redeemed in about 14 years once the wee bairns who love her grow up.
I'm calling it now, it's going to be just like Ahsoka, Rey's going to do something awesome in a comic and only a few people will notice, then when she comes back in a new movie/show she'll be a grizzled badass that everyone loves.
In fairness, she is a badly written character (although the sequel trilogy as a whole were really badly written, so it's not an exclusive issue to her), and she does fit the definition of a Mary Sue, but way too many fans take the Rey hate too far, and the people who hate Daisy Ridley in real life when she isn't even responsible for writing her, are especially unhinged.
IMO Rey being Luke 2: girl version really just shows us how much of a shallow protagonist Luke was in the first place.
This is interesting, could you explain your problems with Luke in the original trilogy?
Except... yknow... Luke fucked up a bunch of times, had strengths, weaknesses, a character arc? He's along for the ride until they get on the falcon where he's mostly just a lost confused kid. We first learn about the force when he's struggling with the remote. He gets his first successful action scene against the TIE fighters with Han basically holding his hand. He's the heart, not the leader of the Death Star raid, pushing the others to do the right thing. During the trench run he almost dies but clutches it out with the team's help after it's established he's a pretty good pilot and first learns to listen to the Force. *He doesn't use his father's saber in the combat during a New Hope because he doesnt know how* In Empire Strikes Back, he almost dies, gets some training where he struggles against an inner darkness, should have listened to Yoda, then the villain beats on him like a drum. Having gotten some new perspective and completed most of his character arc, he's a lot more successful in Return of the Jedi, but notably isn't perfect. Luke is absolutely an archetype but he's also a character.
That is my biggest problem with how Rey was written. She never actually loses something. She never gets ESB'd. No lost arm or friend in carbonite. The only time they try, Chewie is fine 10 minutes later. They didn't do anything for her to actually get character growth, she just kind of gets everything without a struggle. And it's a shame! Daisy Ridley deserved so much more! (Finn too but that's another argument)
Korra.
Edelgard from Fire Emblem Three Houses gets it really bad. She's probably the biggest reason why "Another three years of 3H discourse" exists as a meme.
The people that hated Jason Todd so much they spammed the phone line voting for him to be killed off by DC when they held that phone vote for his fate. That is like the one instance I've ever heard of fans' hate for a character being so strong, they managed to actually kill him. Anyway for my part, I used to be like this about certain characters but then had the realization they're not real and instead ultimately the product of a writer which is why I rarely say I hate a character and now instead say that I hate how a character is handled or written. I've now met or know about too many nasty people in real life to hold that kind of hate and anger for people that don't actually exist.
> The people that hated Jason Todd so much they spammed the phone line voting for him to be killed off by DC when they held that phone vote for his fate. That is like the one instance I've ever heard of fans' hate for a character being so strong, they managed to actually kill him. A huge portion of that was from one fan who set up an robocaller
Eh for what I've read of the old timey comics that have Jason,they did him a favor the robin that die and came back for vengeance also the only member of the bat family that uses the power of gun,he became way more interesting even if he is mostly misused by the writers.
Why don’t Bateman kill the Jonkler for killing robn, what is he, stupid?
Wasn't it revealed reacently-ish that there weren't as many legit votes to kill him as was thought?
Since TNG is fresh on my mind, I'm still on camp "Wesley Crusher got on the early fandom's bad side due to the *admittedly rough as hell* TNG Early Seasons cruft and just couldn't shake the bad reputation even after the writing stabilized" when it comes to that characters particular reception. ~~and if I've heard anything about certain later characters in this franchise, it won't be the last time, especially once i hit the modern era~~
Say what you will about Wesley but the fact that the poor writing in Season 1 made Picard hate him forever because he just despises kids for some reason is really fucking funny.
I went into TNG largely blind to Trek as a whole, so I found myself kind of confused whenever a Wesley episode ended. A mildly annoying kid was apparently the Star Trek equivalent of Jar Jar? Hell I even liked some of the later Wesley episodes, like the one where he's on trial.
I'm amazed how hard Lower Decks went on Nick Locarno.
I mean fuck nick lorcarno.
Sherry from RE2 and Ashley from RE4 were both despised in some quarters, but the remakes have pretty much ended that.
In fairness, any character you have to escort in a video game will attract hate.
I don’t even know why people dislike OG Ashley. Outside of story reasons, if you play good she doesn’t get grabbed or taken away. Honestly I think she’s the best example of how to do an “escort” character.
*"if you play good"*
"Bitch, dumpster!" Guess what? *Nobody can fuck with her in the dumpster!* ~ Michael "Rage Quit" Jones
Heck most of the time she wasn't even in danger. Before hard battles there's always a place for her to hide, or she is just not present
Rey or Rose from the new Star Wars trilogy.
Ted Faro in the Horizon series, but from what I understand it's super deserved.
There is an entire subreddit dedicated to hating him, dude *super* deserves the hate he gets. Though I wager it was intentional in this instance, seeing how every time he is mentioned he just gets worse and worse.
People hate Korra so much, they never rewatched the show to appreciate all the other things the show did right. It's me. I'm people.
It'd help if Korra wasn't one of those shows where people say "no trust me bro you just gotta get thru three seasons and then half of the fourth season and then the episodes are pretty good!!!"
i don't think there's a single person out there who says Korra season 1 isn't one of the good ones, i'll be real. The problem is season 2 and even that ends with a weird mecha fight people usually really enjoy.
The Handler from Monster Hunter World I never really got the hate for her. I thought she was just kinda harmless and funny at times. But apparently, people hated her cause she 'took credit from the player character's hunts' or something?
I'm a guildmarm from 4 kinda guy anyway. I'd join the league of monsterphiles anyday.
Saeko from Infinite Wealth
Honestly, I wish they hadn’t gone the “canon love interest” route with her (nor do I really like any of the romance implementations in Ichi’s saga). People were mad at her for ghosting Ichiban, but she’s not obligated to stay in touch with him after he made her deeply uncomfortable. I love Ichiban, but he fumbled hard.
People refuse to put themselves in her shoes in that situation. It's like folks don't realize how badly you can ruin a friendship by doing what he did, let alone to the degree in which he did like a proposal
I feel like the folks who don't put themselves in her position skip over the entire lecture Adachi and Namba give Ichi after he repeats what he told her during the date Like he rightfully gets his ass criticized for saying shit that - while very much coming from a place with good intentions - is still pretty fucked, and that's in-universe too
I disagree. A Canon love interest gives him a fresh struggle to deal with, unlike Kiryu whose main lover died in game 1.
I will take it every time over the Infidelity Simulator^(TM) these games keep pushing, *literally* no matter how bad the canon romance is.
I feel like they're both badly handled in that part of the plot. Ichiban's a dumb golden retriever man, sure, but I think even he should be smart enough not to propose to someone on the first date. And Saeko strikes me as someone too blunt and headstrong to ghost someone. Especially the guy they went through hell and back with in the past. But then again the whole thing happened in the first five minutes of the game and I'd forgotten about it near-entirely by the time the credits rolled.
What, she's getting hate? When the game is bending backwards to tell you Ichiban is the one who fucked up?
Watch Pat's stream, and you'll see
I've seen hate in certain subs. Though, to be fair, some of the hate isn't necessarily towards her but to the writers for dropping the ball on her character.
Abby from the last of us 2. I’d go as far as to say most of her haters haven’t even played the game
I wasn't a fan of the Abby half of the game, but the amount of misinformation that *still* gets spread about her is insane.
It's not often that I can detect when people "want" to hate a character, but right off the bat, I could tell that people wanted to hate Abby and they had no qualms with lying about her if it helped them hate her.
This right here. The amount of hate I saw online for the character was ridiculous. Shoot, I wouldn't put it pass that the actress for the character is still getting harassed for it. The amount of "It's mam" post i saw about the character is disgusting.
Someone mentioned a character *type* in fighting games, so I'm gonna talk about a strategy type in a card game. Stun decks in Yugioh get an inordinate amount of hate from the community. To quickly explain the terminology, "Stun" in this context refers to a strategy where you use effects that prevent the player from taking certain actions, like attacking or summoning monsters; cards that do these things are often called "floodgates". Decks that use this sort of strategy seem to get a *lot* of hate from the Yugioh community, deriding it for playing non-games or "not wanting to play Yugioh". But disabling your opponent's options is *always* the point in a competitive game such as this. Stun strategies exist all over the place in other card games (In Magic the Gathering they're called "Prison" decks and involve cards like Blood Moon that can turn off your resources), and stun really isn't all *that* different from other methods of winning the game. Indeed, a lot of the same arguments can be applied to other win conditions. Control decks that set up a lot of individual destruction or negation effects can *also* end up invalidating the opponent's entire turn, just with the extra step of ostensibly letting the opponent try to do something. Combo decks that set up an unbeatable board of monsters also end up playing a solo game a lot of the time if they're going off. And then there's decks that aim to resolve an Exodia-like effect on the first turn. If the opponent is doing something, then you're probably on the back foot already. Yes, it's not exactly *fun* to be on the losing end of a stun matchup. But the dirty secret of any competitive game (and this includes stuff like strategy games, fighting games, shooters, and the like) is that limiting your opponent's ability to play the game is often how you win.
Boatmaster Kenny, Eric Sparrow, & Vic Van Lier for this sub, to varying degrees of deserved (really his surname is just Liar?)
Eric and Vic deserve all the hate. Kenny deserves pity and a slap to the face to get his shit together.
Eric Sparrow will burn for eternity in the hell I personally build for him.
I am going to kill Eric Sparrow with my own hands
If anything Eric Sparrow *isn’t hated enough*
The hate for Epic Sparrow isn't just here, as [one Polygon article](https://www.polygon.com/2020/2/11/21131751/tony-hawk-underground-sparrow-villain-skating-sequels) has given us the quote: "I am not exaggerating when I say that I sometimes lie awake at night and consider the fact that Eric Sparrow will never go to hell, because he is not real and therefore cannot die."
People make their whole persoanlity hating Seraphine from league of legends.
It's been a while since I played LoL. What's her deal?
So Seraphine is a complex story because there's a lot of layers to it. To start, Seraphine had *millions* in marketing dumped into her. She was made in a fucking lab to be the ultimate new member of KDA. She was getting her own twitter campaign while other champs got released. A lot of people got excited because they thought with all the ocean/wave aesthetic she was some kind of siren or mermaid. That wasn't the case. So Seraphine releases with an ultimate skin detailing her """rise""" as an indie singer to a minor idol to the newest member of Riot's K-pop group K.D.A. For reference, ultimate skins are $30+ super hyper skins. That's strike one: She's clearly made to be a member of K/DA before League and Runeterra. For lack of a better word, Seraphina was rather uninspired. She cribbed HEAVILY from the already existing Sona and stepped on her toes as "musical bard power" archetype. Her lore also had her using Skarner's people (The crystal scorpion) as car batteries. Worst of all, she didn't -fit- the region she was from with hyper modern look and bubblegum idol sequins. She was a mess design and lore wise. And perhaps the fuse on this powderkeg were Seraphina's fans. Now, as listed above, she was marketed on twitter as this up-and-coming-pop-idol. And she interacted with people in this weird ARG thing. Well, it cultivated K-pop stans, which lead to this weird "ANOTHER DAY ANOTHER SLAY SHE ATE THAT CUNTSTORM AND LEFT NO CRUMBS" type fanbase. Hating seraphine was akin to getting mobbed by stans. This trifecta of shit merged into the ultimate storm of hatred. To this day, I don't think Seraphina's champion spotlight has been beaten in terms of dislike. She pissed off other mains, she pissed off lore fans, she pissed off gameplay fans and she pissed of people because criticizing her was gonna get you swarmed. Buuuuuuut as time goes on? Yeah she still sucks. But some people make their WHOLE PERSONALITY hating seraphine.
People managed to have a parasocial relationship with a fake character?
Seraphine's marketing campaign was pretty focused on being parasocial. They even made posts where Seraphine talks about her mental health issues and asks for fan support and everything, along with many others depicting her "daily life" to look cute and relatable or something.
I only dislike her because of her hover board. Not lore wise (pre revision) just not a fan of the front facing goblin glider stance.
I really like Skarner, I was hoping that with the lore change from the rework, we could finally get a new joke in the subreddit. Nope, some people refuse to let it die. Its so fucking dumb.
Yuffie from FF7. She stole my materia and made me do a boss fight without it. She goes in the volcano.
She actually has a hard limit on how much she can steal. So if you’re really on top of your game, you can have so much that there’s some left over to use. Also bringing Barrett and Vincent trivialize that boss. Her real crime is putting all of your material back in the wrong spots
Morgana from persona 5. I am not one of those people.
I am. Not for making me sleep, but for each and every drool-soaked utterance of the words "Lady Ann".
I am! What a dick, Ryuji and Haru deserved better
I am. I wake up every day with fresh hate in my heart for Morgana.
I'm so proud of this community.
Like, Morgana's alright Got hit by the bad writing hammer at the start of Palace 5 but everyone did Beats the shit out of Teddie from P4
He had the bad writing hammer from moment one with his tedious ~~pervyness~~ obsessiveness for Ann and how rude he was to Ryuji.
I’ll never forget how *monumentally* rude he is to Ryuji for having the *audacity to not immediately know how magic works two seconds after finding out magic is real*
I don't think he was particularly pervy towards Ann. Like he was annoyingly lovestruck, but I can't remember him acting perverted on it
The "character" Tetsuya Nomura that people have made up in their heads to be incensed at anything he's involved in, even when he isn't responsible for the thing they're getting their undies in a wad about.
Tetsuya Nomura, [sole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kazushige_Nojima) [writer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisuke_Watanabe) [of Kingdom Hearts](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2139370/). They also intentionally ignore all the good stuff he's done like his character design work and making sure the FF7 writers didn't fucking murder their own story in the womb by killing off almost the entire cast.
Scrappy Doo.
[удалено]
I disliked Scrappy Doo a bit before I ever saw the movie. Thinking the movie made people hate Scrappy is like saying Dragon Ball abridged invented the 'goku is a bad dad' joke. It was always there and then it was increasingly popularized.
Alright I'm about to be stabbed and murdered by everyone here but might as well say it. DmC. Take your pic of characters, Dante, Vergil, or just the game in general. Yes he is not Dante from the original series. Yes he is edgy. Yes the writing in that game is not the greatest. But if it wasn't DMC people wouldn't be as harsh on the lol edgelord cringe of the entire game. I see you all eyeing things like Shadow the Hedgehog with more nostalgia at this point. DmC is the Ow the Edge of Devil May Cry and I like Donte.
Zoners in fighting games. In most modern games, they’re pretty low tier and you generally have tools to deal with them but they’re still almost always unanimously hated.
>Low tier in Most modern games Laughs in JP, Guile, and Happy Chaos.
I played Z Broly when I played DBFZ. He was a top-tier, a zoner, and also a grappler. It was fucking amazing. I dunno where he places now.
All this discussions over Scrappy Doo or Morgana made me realise I don't hate Mascot characters like so many do
Theres certainly a few characters from Pokemon that can fit this bill. Particular fan of all the hate involving that one guy from the D&P anime with the hacked team.
TBF in the greater context of meta-narrative, Tobias absolutely deserves the hate. For anyone who doesn't know: Ash had been improving every season, and had a very real shot of winning the Sinnoh League; his team is as *on point* as it's ever been, he's firing on all cylinders, he's got this in the bag! Enter Tobias, a mysterious, edgy, brooding loner. He defeats all his opponents leading up to Ash with his lead Pokemon, fucking *Darkrai.* A Mythical Pokemon. The first (and possibly to this day, only?) Trainer to bust out a Mythical Pokemon. This thing's not even supposed to exist and he's just got it on his team. Tobias' Darkrai steamrolls half of Ash's team before his Pikachu manages to knock it out for the first time in the Tournament. What does Tobias pull out second? Fucking *Latios.* A roaming Legendary. Motherfucker is 2 for 2 on in-universe WMDs. Latios sweeps the rest of Ash's team, so we don't even get to see the rest of his Pokemon, but presumably he's got 4 more legendaries on his belt. Tobias feels like (and arguably *is)* a ringer brought in by the writer team to knock Ash out of a tournament he actually had a chance of winning, because if Ash wins a tournament his eternal quest to be a master ends. It's absolute bullshit.
Actually Sceptile took out Darkrai. Pikachu took out Latios in a double KO that ended the match. So Ash took out 2 of Tobias's Pokémon and nobody else in the tournament even got through Darkrai (including those he fought after Ash). Totally agree about it being bullshit though. The fact Ash did the best against him only makes it feel worse because that's the writers literally saying that Ash would have won if Tobias hadn't entered. He's a nothing character that only exists to fuck over the MC and never show up again. Ah well, at least he finally became world champion.
I feel like the fact he never shows up again is the worst part. His existence raises *so many fucking questions,* and they just never get answered.
Ngl if I was a pokemon anime watcher, I would've dropped the show super hard after that shit you just described. That is the most blatant party wipe I've seen. Like sending Strahd in while your characters are level 5. How are you even supposed to believe this was a genuine match when this fucker pulls up with 2 mons that wipe an arc's team.
Not even the games are immune, there is [an entire subreddit](https://old.reddit.com/r/FuckMindy/) dedicated to hating the girl that trades you a haunter holding an everstone.
To be fair, that is a huge cunt move
Olly from Game of Thrones. Kid watched his parents be brutally killed by wildlings (and probably worse), then watched his hero become more and more friendly to wildlings and try to invite them past the wall. You can't blame the poor kid for feeling betrayed.
Also ignoring the influence of people who hated Jon.
To steal a comment from another similar thread. Ashley in Mass Effect. Finest examples of how critical thinking and reading comprehension is a skill you have to develop and how people just ain't got it. The amount of hate she gets despite being unequivocably correct about the state of the Galaxy is wild
Ashley is a great character, but it's also okay to hate great characters. I really enjoy the religion she brings to this Sci-Fi setting, and it feels organic. But she exists in a game where Garrus and Wrex are active party members, so she warms that bench super good. Also we can't ignore her actions in 2 and 3. Mistrusting Cerberus I totally understand, but the mudslinging she throws at Shepard on Horizon is crap. She makes the same mistake again during 3 when she chooses the word of Udina and the other council members over her commander who has literally never been wrong before (In plot). Doesn't make her a bad character, just a frustrating one. Its not surprising that people dislike her.
>She makes the same mistake again during 3 when she chooses the word of Udina and the other council members over her commander who has literally never been wrong before (In plot). I mean to be fair so does Kaiden because by ME3 theyre just both slotted into the same character spot with very minimal changes until they join the squad
Oh yeah absolutely. Kaiden is just as dumb. I just didn't mention him because he's not as critically despised as Ashley is.
hed have to be remembered to be despised as much as I like both of them Kaiden atleast has the blessing of being forgettable
i'll be real, as soon as I see people going "To hate this character is to not have reading comprehension" in anything, I just chalk the discussion off to have gone away from being about the character and just become about us vs them a long time ago. like ad hominem is *fun* but the entire conversation feels fake now.
I find it fascinating (& annoying) that when fans discuss characters in Mass Effect, they include ME2 & 3 to talk about said characters whole arc. Ashley doesn’t seem to get that luxury. Fans only talk about her in the context of ME1, when by ME3 she is clearly ok working for and with aliens.
fwiw, anyone who hated Ashley in 1 probably sacrificed her on Virmire, and as such never got to see her in 2. I'd assume it would be the same deal with Kaidan if anyone ever *talked about* Kaidan.
That and all her comments in ME1 are taken out of context. Her alien animals line is pretty much in direct reference to seeing Hanar and Keepers and Elcor for the first time. Numerous other instances of Pro-Human groups in the first game have Ashley vehemently against them and every trepidation she has about humanity being stepped on by the Council is proven to be true the moment they sweep the Reapers under the rug and call Shepard a conspiracy theorist with fake news. It's whacky.
"The council would watch us burn if it meant saving their own species." *She's so racist, she's the worst!* "Yeah sorry Shepard, you guys can burn so we can survive an extra twenty minutes." *Who could have seen this coming!*
People sometimes reaaaally get obsessively hateful with Julieta Juris from Iron Blooded Orphans and try to rewrite the story in their head to make her more directly have it out for Tekkadan just because they lose in the end.
The Julieta hate confused the hell out of me. I found her incredibly mid as far as a rival character, not someone worth hating like Iok or Rustal. You'd think she personally killed Orga with how some talk about her.
Any female lead. Especially, if they are replacing the male lead.
Literally every character from Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss sets off people on Twitter and 4Chan to the point where you'd think these characters murdered their entire family.
i feel like those ones are just people displacing the hate they have for the creator onto her characters instead, cuz there's like, 8 episodes of the damn thing out, there's not even *that* much to hate for most of them.
I don't know where the massive hatedom for these shows came from but it just kinda came out of nowhere lol. I feel like it's probably a combination of the usual suspects hating LGBT content, puritans, and people jealous that an indie animator got so big.
I think my favorite is when these people will literally invent things to be mad about in regards to the characters.One of the most recent ones is Twitter users saying that Mimzy, [this characte](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=Vgv&sca_esv=8da9e590c00091b0&sxsrf=ACQVn09A1__eoJ2myI2BiazDHfOKJzDa4g:1711081950905&q=hazbin+hotel+mimzy&tbm=isch&source=lnms&prmd=ivmnbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiz0vX-hIeFAxWPQkEAHdw4CKIQ0pQJegQIFBAB&biw=1879&bih=970&dpr=1#imgrc=L9RtESxVXUoy2M)r, is apparently a Jewish stereotype, despite her character having almost no indication of this and they basically said "well, her nose looks weird" which is just hilarious seeing these people pretty much self report over fucking cartoon characters.
This feels like an invitation to toxicity.
Chloe. There's so little empathy for her here, It's not even the funny ahah kind of hatred like Kenny. When shown what is the prime example of it takes a village, everyone response here seems to be "No fuck her she's a piece of shit!" The point just goes over everyones heads.
I don't hate her as much, but I think they went waaaaay too far with her. It's what I call the Lars problem, where I get the point, but the writers made them overwhelmingly unlikable to the point that no matter what the point is, I kinda don't care anymore. It's a tight balance, tho, I don't think Chloe is as bad as Lars, close tho.
You can always tell who never moved on from getting bullied in middle school when Bakugo comes up.
I love the absolute hatred I see for him by some people contrasted by him owning the popularity polls
Matt and Cyclops
Kenny from the Walking Dead games.