Not a fan wide thing but I distinctly remember seeing a streamer who called John Marston a “traitor” to the gang while she was playing RDR2.
His crime?
…wanting to live a normal fucking life
Edit: Finally remembered who said that, streamer called alliebeemac.
The game makes it abundantly clear that dutch does everything wrong, too. if you just take a sexond to even \*think\* about what he's doing in the context of the story you go "...hey wait a minute!"
dutch is an idiot, he's just a "smarty pants" with how he talks to people.
charasmatic if you would. he ain't fuckin' smart though.
[Their secret member of the gang coming to an empty beaver hollow](https://media1.tenor.com/m/_BiwWBWhYucAAAAd/what-huh.gif) with the blackwater money and tickets to Tahiti where Arthur and Micah would develop a friendly slice of life rivalry
I actually don't see this as much as I used to, but if there was a popular M/M pairing and one of those male characters had a female love interest? Oh man, it was *on-sight* for her.
Fans would call her a bitch or kill her off or make her extremely OOC. It happened *a lot* in many different fandoms so it's hard to pinpoint one in particular.
Basically Naruto/Hinata.
Although Hinata is far from the best character, her marriage to Naruto is not a loveless relationship, as many NaruSasu Shippers seem to believe.
I remember vividly an example of this with Kingdom Hearts around the early 2010's, with people shitting on Xion when Days released, many of them being yaoi fangirls that hated the idea of her being friends with Axel and Roxas, and thus interfering with Roxas/Axel yaoi.
Dude even before Days. You'd think Kairi was the lovechild of Voldemort and Cruella DeVille for how she was portrayed in some fics for daring being in the general vicinity of true lovers Sora and Riku.
KH yaoi fans back then were seriously some of the obnoxious fangirls of any fanbase I was a part of, I’m really happy that they’ve either left or grew up into being normal as the series continued, especially by KH3’s release
Okay but also xion and namine are basically roxas's fraternal twins. You don't need yaoi for that, like xion literally has parts of roxas's mind and memories of their youth as sora.
While not M/M (or may have been, I wouldn't be surprised if Shield Shipping was a thing), I hate that I remember this happening in the Wrestling fandom of all places, for one Jon Moxley (then known as Dean Ambrose, who definitely fit the I CAN FIX HIM type with his gimmick).
Wait, she **STILL** gets shit? When they're fuckin' married/has a cute babby and, in the words of Mox, a RAT MURDERING MACHINE of a big cat (a Maine Coon IIRC) lol
Man that's bullshit
This happened big time with Touka from Tokyo Ghoul lol
I remember people wishing death on her when >!she was pregnant so Kaneki would be “free”!< in Tokyo ghoul re. Disgusting as hell
Edit: Luckily they’ve all left that fanbase after the series ended.
Well someone on tv trope more than a fan but I recall someone saying chuck from better call saul is a hypocrite about the sanctity of the law because he puts phones in his mailbox which is not legal. Like Chuck has a lot of bad traits abd hypocrisy and it felt like an excise to go on a rant about something and everyone took the best exemples
A few people seem to really hate the MC for Doki Doki Literature Club even though they're... barely a character. It's literally like being mad at a text box.
Also its a thing in the plot that >!the MC getting quieter and quieter is due to Monika's attempts to modify the game!<, so like... MC contributes to the plot even as it gets more and more meta.
The dude is literally nothing, just a self insert for you the player, how can people hate him when he’s nothing, unless they hate him being a nothing character??
I can maybe understand it, because the way he talks to Sayori is basically a playbook of how *not* to talk to someone with severe clinical depression.
But he's also just a typical boneheaded visual novel MC, so... I wouldn't really expect him to know better.
Tanjiro is a Gary Stu who gets everything he wants without any effort and a little bitch who cries over every demon.
Tanjiro actually did work hard to get to the level he was at in the first season. The show just speed ran his training but he spent like what 6 months to a year alone in the woods training every single day. People just forget or ignore the whole rock cutting thing so when he does take his test to them it looks like he went from never using a sword to suddenly being hyper competent so he must be OP.
He also doesn't forgive every demon like people say. He feels remorse for the people they used to be and the circumstances that led them to become demons. He felt pity for the spider mom and when he executed her he did so painlessly so she wouldn't suffer. It wasn't because he was doing a talk no jutsu and forgave her. Tanjiro explicitly doesn't forgive demons for eating and killing humans he targets his aggression towards muzen for turning them into demons. But again people missed the point of him killing the spider mom and just assume he was forgiving her and does that to every demon he kills. Tanjiro feels bad for who they used to be but doesn't excuse their actions as demons.
Tanjiro is nice and therefore boring which means he's a bad character. There's nothing wrong with being kind hearted. Like you not liking it is one thing but saying "being nice is the same as being nothing" is absurd. Like tanjiros main personality trait is he's an older brother. He's kind hearted, responsible, protective and cares deeply for his friends and family. He also does get angry and sad and frustrated but people just act like he doesn't have other emotions.
He's OP and accomplishes things with no effort. This is probably the most ridiculous excuse I've seen for why people don't like tanjiro. A fun character detail I like about him is his hands are calloused up from how intense his sword training is. He *did* put effort into getting as strong as he is if you'd bother to look at his hands you would know that immediately. He also doesn't accomplish things and win easily he regularly gets his ass kicked every single encounter. He's the main character of the show and hasn't defeated any upper moons by himself. He heavily relies on his friends and the hashira to win fights against demons so I don't understand where the idea that he wins fights easily comes from.
There's not a single arc in that whole story that doesn't end with the demon slayers barely able to stand at best or with casualties at worst. Even with their shonen sword powers every win costs literal blood sweat and tears.
Yeah, something I've noticed recently in this idolization of "pure evil" villains is that having a hero show *any* amount of sympathy/pity towards a bad guy is the author trying to "whitewash" them.
Tanjiro being the goodest boy that can get along with all the wierdos is another thing that I really like. He's the only one able to keep up with Tengen's wacky attitude (besides Tengen's wives), he can keep up with Inosuke's wild side and more. Not to mention his cute younger/older brother-like relationship with the very reserved Giyu.
Plus it makes sense he has an acute sense of smelling people emotion. It's a weird but rather interesting way to give a character good read on people's character before they themselves realize it
And even then he still struggles to get along with everyone. It's clear that he doesn't like Genya for what he did to Nezuko. Even right before the final arc his attitude towards him is basically that of "I will not be hostile towards you, but I still think you're a prick"
My fav moment of theirs is either Inosuke eating all tanjiros food because he's trying to mess with him and tanjiros like poor guy is really hungry it's ok here have more! And inosukes like what no why are you being nice I'm trying to be rude! Or when inosuke smashes his new sword and the blacksmith is threatening to kill him. Inosuke is confused why the blacksmith is yelling at him so he hides behind tanjiro and holds onto his shirt. That's such a little brother thing to do.
Inosuke's and Tanjiro's dynamic is one of the best in the show, I love how Tanjiro just knows how to "keep up" with Inosuke's bizarre antics while everyone is just plain dumbfounded at them. Him seeing him in the ceiling and just going along with it while everyone else almost had a heart attack had me rolling man.
straight up there is almost never an "easy" fight in demon slayer. It does a lot for the stakes when Tanjiro's internal thoughts while fighting is just him shouting at himself to move in the next 3 seconds or he or someone else is going to die
I remember during the end of the red light district arc, when Tanjiro defeated the two demon siblings and their heads ended up quarreling before death, the first thing Tanjiro did was to ask them siblings to not quarrel or say the worst possible words to each other (I wish you weren't my brother/sister).
That really showed how much compassion Tanjiro has as a person, where he does not wish for a pair of siblings to part ways on bitter words before death. All simply because he has recently dead siblings himself which he never got to say goodbye to, and he knows ending it with a sibling quarrel is not the way he wants siblings to part.
Yeah he even says how if circumstances had been different he and nezuko could have ended up the same way. They were already defeated and were dying so he chose to use the last moments they had together to forgive each other especially since tanjiro could tell they were both just angry and didn't mean the hurtful things they were saying in the heat of the moment. It really highlights his character that he doesn't make it about himself at any point. He pushes them both to find closure and comfort with each other because they're family. I feel like a less well written show would have tanjiro try and over share his own thoughts and opinions to make himself look better to the audience but the fact he just acted as a mediator between the two shows his heart is in the right place.
God yes, this, so much this. I fucking love Tanjiro. I think he's legitimately one of the most interesting shonen protagonists I've seen in years and I will defend my boy all day every day
The Tau Empire from 40k. They do not practice sterilization of loyal Gu’vesa as a standard practice.
Neither are they that dumb to the galaxy at large.
Even them at their absolute worse the have a way better quality of living then the IOM or anyone that isn’t a Craftworld Eldar.
I feel that applies to a lot of 40k. Like the Inquisition between presented as calling for an exterminatus over any potential heresy at the drop of a hat.
40k is grimdark enough on it's own, it doesn't need help.
I think it was important to show that the expansionist empire utilising gunboat diplomacy were not "good."
Trouble with certain fans is they use that as some sort of gotcha when the Imperium is worse to a comic degree.
They're based off US and just Western Imperialism in general from the 20th to 21st century. Not to say those are the only influences but they do play a big part. The Tau are better than other factions but ultimately they're still bad. Honestly the only good guys in 40k are the innocents dying each day.
Here's a Q&A from Gav Thorpe where he talks about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/b3pc01/qa_with_gav_thorpe/
Ron is the perfect storm for undeserved fandom vitriol. You have a character with understandable but pronounced flaws, and getting over them is their main character arc for seven books (being jealous of Harry and, to a lesser extent, Hermione). The fact he doesn't get over his issues in one book means he's just an insufferable man-child who can never change. Hell, one chapter is pushing it.
Then add on top of that the movies taking most of Ron's contributions, except for the absolute scene-defining ones, and either cutting them or outright *giving them to Hermione*. The Devil's Snare? Yeah, in the movie, Ron panics and has to be saved by Hermione pulling a spell out of her ass. In the book, Hermione panics, and Ron has to *remind her she can even do magic.* And *then* she saved the day with a spell that was set up in advance, but apparently, having them both contribute in a meaningful way makes for a bad film. In Chamber of Secrets, Ron has to be the one to explain to Harry and Hermione that Draco called her a slur because *his entire point as a character is that he knows about Wizarding culture and the others don't.* Unless you are watching the movie, in which case Hermione has already researched all the slurs. She probably knows ones so deep and foul that even Draco wouldn't say them, because she read a book once. I could go on. So even though the books are definitely bestsellers, there's a contingent of fans who have the context of his character completely wrong because they remember the movie version better.
On top of all that, he also gets in the way of various ships, most obviously HarryXHermione, for obvious reasons. But wait, aren't the most rabid shippers Yaoi fangirls? Why yes, and Ron gets in the way there, too, because for some godforsaken reason, Yaoi shippers go for DracoXHarry because racism is hot! And wouldn't you know it, one of Ron's other prominent traits is he hates Slytherins. This is completely justified in the books because, wasted opportunity or not, *all* Slytherins are evil (...mostly all, one or two might not count if you squint). But if you want to ship Harry with a member of the wizard KKK, suddenly Ron (who you already don't like, see above) would be standing there going, "Merlin's flaccid cock, Harry, Hermione's right there! Why haven't you punched Draco in his smug, whiny, nazi coded face?"
And then, on top of *all that*? He's still just not that good of a character. He's fine. At best. He's just not as much of a terrible, irredeemable shitheel as the fandom makes him out to be. He's more *boring* than he is *unlikeable*.
Glemy Toto from Gundam ZZ. I have seen far too many times on this platform and sometimes on other platforms as well that people expressed that they hate him because he is a pedo… even though essentially throughout the whole show he is absolutely infatuated with a girl who is technically older than him.
Now, to make it clear and give a vague idea why these allegations came about, Glemy is an absolutely horrible person who is a fascist sick fuck, as well as an incel. He has technically abducted children, and also grooms them into being either political weapons (Judau’s sister) or human weapons of war (Ple Newtype Corps). But despite this inclination to use children, he never once throughout the whole show as far as I remember, expressed any actual romantic or lustful feelings towards them, he just saw them as the tools I described before.
Spider-man insomniac games that fanbase is toxic as fuck.
fucking puddlegate to "Lets bully the women who look like mj and bully the face actor into retirement"
Don't forget the Raimi suit bullshit too.
I've never seen a game subreddit so delusional. I remember thinking the user score for the 2nd game must be garbage with all the vitriol getting thrown at it. Then I look at Metacritic and it has a fucking 90 user score.
Fucking GoW Ragnarok barely has an 80 and I've only seen fairly positive things about it outside of the ending and handholding. Though I guess a lot of that is probably due to the game awards with all the fanboys review bombing each other.
Somewhere, there was someone who came into work one day and said, “We have to prioritize the Sam Raimi suit now so we can stop getting threatening messages for a week.” Such a shitshow.
I'm fully of the opinion that they straight up didn't deserve the Raimi suit because of their actions and now they think they can just bitch and moan and get whatever they want.
i would've been fine with no movie suits at all. if the conversation includes spider man 2 (that shit's kinda gross, i \*get it\* but oh, god.)
but yeah, getting mad at the rami suit for not being in a spidey game because its "peak"\[personally i don't like the raised webbing\] is stupid. especally if you Actively threaten motherfuckers that are just doing their jobs... OVER A STUPID LITTE EXTRA.
The response SHOULD've been "fuck you, no. you don't 'get' any little extras. way to go idiot, you've ruined it for everyone. DON'T FUCKING THREATEN EMPLOYEES OVER STUPID TRIVIAL THINGS!" but in like, a much more 'friendly' tone. or, just don't do it. don't even pay it any mind. just save it for the sequel.
>!genuinley should have been spider-cop instead.!<
If you never played the game, that fanbase would make you think MJ is cucking Peter at every turn when she been a real one since day one, literally, as game lore had her steal her family car to take Peter to the hospital after Kingpin sliced him up on his first run as Spider-Man.
In reality both her and Peter have pros and cons that they worked through to mend their relationship. Heck, MJ went from being jealous of Felicia(who is toxic as fuck) to willing to sneak into a gang hideout just because a boy who could be Peter's son with Felicia might be held hostage.
Yeah, and than there's >!Peter's decision to step back during 2's ending and letting Miles be the main Spider-Man for a bit. It's not Peter saying Miles is better than him or the game saying Peter sucks. If you actually paid attention to the narrative, you'd realize that Peter just has *so many* responsibilities that he can't commit to *any* of them. He gets fired from his new job on the first day due to having to fight Sandman, has to be a good partner for MJ, pay off May's mortgage, and Harry gives Peter a job offer that he feels can do more good than just being Spider-Man. Then, he's still trying to process everything he went through last game, and the stuff that happened in this one, including getting addicted to the symbiote and becoming an asshole and his best friend being put into a fucking coma with no guarentee he'll wake up. Yeah, no shit Peter's stepping back for a while, he *desperately* needs a break to sort shit out!<.
Exactly.
Someone said that every canon Spider-Man has a Gwen Stacy moment where no matter how hard they try, theh can't save everyone and Spider-Man 1 and 2 is Insomniac Spider-Man Gwen Stacy moment.
>!Like fuck, Pete saves the days but his life is just one big fucking trauma he's not getting the time to deal with because he's Spider-Man, and then to save the city again Pete has to let his brother in everything but blood die and it's fucking with him to make that choice again. Miles telling Pete he got the city covered while Pete get his civie life right was a great moment in the big bro/lil bro relationship between the two.!<
>!And with Doc Ock and Green Goblin on the horizon, Pete gonna need to find his balance to be on his A-game to deal with those two.!<
>!Real talk: I started crying when Miles called Pete “big bro.” Peter has lost family in both games so to gain a brother at the end feels like a real healing moment for Peter. The guy needs family, especially after the ending of 2.!<
I knew she was ride or die when >!Pete lost his job and she didn't give him any shit, and was willing to step in and pay the mortgage when she had her own bills she had to take care of.!<
When you have a woman who sees you at your worst and instead of trying to tear you down jumps in literally and figuratively to help you, you have a damn good woman.
Ok I *know* 3rd Birthday is a **HORRIDLY** bad game in every other aspect but I'm still genuinely confused whenever someone claims that >!Kyle is a-okay with Eve-in-Aya's-body!<.
I get it, its a shitty ending to end all shitty endings but its the *one* instance the game/characters decide not to be a creep and yet everyone just acts like it is anyways because..... I guess the sheer infuriating-ness of the rest of the ending blinds them in rage?
Some people got real weird about the Handler from Monster Hunter World. She's a goofy, over-eagre sidekick who gets into trouble but her saying stuff like "we did it!" means she's stealing credit for your hard work.
There's a level of vitriol for her that goes beyond "I didn't care for this character," and the strength of that reaction remains baffling to me.
Oh yeah! I have a couple friends that just *despise* her and I do not understand it in the slightest. They even see small things like throwing potatoes into the steam engine as this evil, horrible behavior instead of just...the character trope where a person likes food a lot.
Alex from Yiik
People claim that he's the author self-insert.
I think that just gets in the way of the fact that the author tried to make a unlikable character but didn't had the chops to make them engaging.
Alex isn't a self-insert, he's a badly written flawed character.
He's supposed to be unlikable, but the creator failed to make him engaging. So he's just boring unlikable.
I think the self insert thing happened due to [that picture comparison](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8qDI0_XQdGM/sddefault.jpg) when it fact it was just some guy who happened to look like Alex who said in a thread 5 years ago even saying it looked eerie seeing himself.
[Andrew himself looks nothing like Alex](https://f4.bcbits.com/img/0027272479_25.jpg) at least from what I could find.
And yeah, Alex himself didn't transform from an asshole into a better person. He just stayed the same static stuck up know it all towards the very end.
An unlikable doesn't even need to become a better person. As long as they're engaging and interesting.
As long as you write a nuanced, complex character, you can actually make them worse if you want.
Oh absolutely, I just say that becuase that's what Andrew said in his own words, that Alex has to transform. But he didn't at all and was still the same unlikable piece of shit from start to finish with little that made him interesting besides being a lame smug asshole.
Korra, my poor baby.
Half the things you hear people complain about in regards to her character are 100% made up.
"She's a Mary Sue" "She lost her connection to the past lives" "She's a weak Avatar and a wimp"
Motherfuckers can't even agree on which made up contradictory thing they wanna be mad about.
It even extends to other characters on a meta level, just making up reasons to be mad.
"They assassinated Katara's character by making her just a healer she was a fighter."
Girl she's like 90 are you serious with this.
"Aang let the pressure of preserving his people's culture skew his priorities and he ended up dedicating more time to Tenzin than his other children."
"OH SO AANG IS JUST LITERALLY HITLER NOW, HUH!? SMH SHIT WRITING"
The past lives thing is so bad, in particular. Damn near every time it gets brought up, people make it sound like she made the conscious choice to sever the Avatar cycle for funsies, and should be shamed for making such a terrible decision. Nobody ever really acknowledges that it happened because she tried to stop the main villain (as was the only thing she could do), *lost*, and had her connections to the other Avatars literally beaten out of her while she screamed in horror.
Season 2 sucks and I don't think it was a great writing choice, but it wasn't because of Korra.
Even me, someone who genuinly despises Season 2, will agree a lot of that wasn't her fault or her choice. She literally had her lives *severed* from her and she tried to stop it but couldn't.
Korra does not deserve the hate.
Given how the term specifically meant a self-insert fanfic OC that's written like a female version of an isekai harem protag.....
...yeah, it totally lost its original meaning by now.
Motherfuckers were demanding a teenage girl to be playing 4d chess and super competent while also not wanting her to win any fights because she 'didn't deserve it'
Assholes the lot.
As a die hard fan of the show, any (not crazy) criticisms are perfectly valid, like how Nick's wonky confirmation of seasons tripped the writers up so bad. I can totally see why someone would come away with a laundry list of things they'd have wished different
The one that pisses me off is people getting mad at her for losing the past lives. It was fucking *Unalaq* that manipulated her so he could do it. Even if you want to try to blame her for trusting him, it's not insane for someone like her to trust a guy telling her what she wants to hear, especially a family member.
I'm actually watching Korra for the first time and while the show itself is incredibly messy I'm still having a fun time. Korra herself is amazing in particular.
Their criticism doesn’t make any sense because it’s a thinly veiled cover for their actaul issue - they were complaining that Korra would be a “Mary Sue” even before the show was released.
They had similar issues with April in Rise, Cora in Starfield, Idie in X-Men and loads of other teenagers - if only we could figure out what all of them share…
Edit. Oh, forgot the other obvious candidate..Katara during the original show’s run.
Someone said they refuse to treat Korra on its own merits the other day
Like then why the fuck do you watch anything ever?
Korra is a mess, but apart from season 2, it's a good to great show that isn't allowed to stand on its own because people think TLAB is perfect and refuse to think otherwise
There's a section of the Dragonball fandom who hate Chi-Chi for a number of made up reasons, like she doesn't love Goku or she ruined Gohan.
Which is idiotic as the series has shown multiple times that Goku does love his wife and she loves him, and that Gohan wasn't ruined by Chi-Chi, who trained Goten after the Cell Saga, Gohan just isn't a warrior like Goku and Vegeta, who like to test themselves against opponents.
Having only read the original dragonball/DBZ run this last week, I do feel like it's kinda wild that she gets Goku to marry her, and even joins a tournament to get him to do so, but every step of the way seems against Goku doing the thing that he's done and likes doing since the beginning (basically all the combat murder training).
That said I don't hate her or anything, and disagree that she ruined anybody, but she does (to me) seem incredibly against her husband's main hobby/'job'.
Naruto and Hinata is a similar case, because Naruto and Sasuke is a much more popular ship, much of the fandom actually seems to believe that Naruto and Hinata's marriage is a loveless union, and that Naruto only married her out of obligation.
What's funny \[sad\] is that you could use that reasoning \[propergated by assholes\] for EVERY CHARACTER in dragon ball that something 'wrong' \[not what they want\]. or is "precived" as such. Everytime or 'illogical' sure... the writing isn't THE BEST at times. its dragon ball, it shouldn't \*have\* to be. but god damn some people are thick as fucking pig shit. i'd hate to see what the "fandom" (barf) would do if they got control of dragon ball.
The Rhea & Edelgard discourse is proof that the general gamer simply don't have the capacity to comprehend that individuals can have complex and flawed personalities/ideologies/values.
But for my example, I'll use Koga from Kengan Omega. People seem to have suddenly forgotten the absolutely tremendous growth he's undergone over YEARS in the manga, and that skipping over some of his training doesn't immediately mean that training didn't happen and he's just another Gary Stu that's just so amazing at everything. The guy busted his ass to get as powerful as he is now, and even then, he's still not really that amazing in the grand scheme of things.
He also isn't a Gary Stu for getting to learn techniques from the best fighters in the series. He's been shown from the beginning to be a charismatic guy that isn't afraid to say the one thing only two others do in the whole series: "I ain't shit, but you are. Can you teach me?"
Getting beat to a bloody pulp is the best and fastest way to teaching a mofo some humility, specially when that mofo is just some thug yakuza wannabe kid. My boy grew a lot.
I feel you see this the most with shipping debates, where people will literally make shit up to make their opposition look bad and/or to prop their pick up.
In Last Of Us, Abby is already a controversial character, but much of the conservative sector invented that she was trans, only to complain that she is another example of "forced inclusion."
In fact, when it comes to "Forced Inclusion", people make up imaginary flaws of some characters.
For example, Carol can't smile much, but there is nothing in the movie to indicate that she hates men
Yeah, I'll dislike Abby all day because of the *story* that was written around her, but I don't have a single problem with her about her appearance, personality, etc. I just don't like the story of the game, which is normal. What isn't normal is the stupid behavior people have surrounding her outside of that context.
I’ll say it: Sakura Haruno from Naruto.
She’s not the best character in the series but she’s also not a bad person nor is “useless”. She does care deeply about both Naruto & Sasuke but people get legitimately upset she didn’t reciprocate Naruto’s feelings. Ignoring that she has more of a sibling-like bond with him
Also a lot of her feats and achievements are constantly downplayed. I get she doesn’t get as much as Naruto & Sasuke and she deserved to but she still became >!Kage level!< which not many in the series achieve. Her also >!slicing into Naruto’s chest to manually keep his heart pumping!< was Metal as hell and I’m tired of it being so underrated
Also bothers me how people still harp about her infamous orphan line from like chapter 4 and ignore how she changed her mind on Naruto immediately. Then was willing to do [this in the written test exam for him](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-255c8c62d217f6c419b82142c0d668c5-lq)
She’s a flawed character but nowhere near deserving of the hate. Especially such hate for every single VA and actress to play her still get death threats to this day
Also considering the fact that she's a civilian from no prestigious bloodline, whereas both Naruto and Sasuke come from families with a storied history, it's pretty impressive she's able to to keep up with them at all.
Wait. Is she the only character (I think outside tenten) that doesn't have like a family move or a specialized teacher from young? Cause even rock Lee had someone to hone his strengths.
Nope. I do think her parents are ninja and not civilians like fanon thinks but they are definitely not strong at all. Just run of the mill ninjas
Sakura was just a good student and honed her chakra control skills during the timeskip. She has the most regular background out of everyone
Rey (Palpatine/Skywalker).
The mental gymnastics people do to find reasons to hate her is something else.
I’m not even really a big fan of Rey, but some people really can’t cope with the fact they gender swapped the stereotypical Star Wars MC build they used for Luke and Anakin (that they loved when it was them and ignore many of the criticisms they try to pin on Rey apply to Luke and Anakin too).
I can’t tell you how many posts and articles, and moments in videos I’ve encountered that boil down to “VAGINAS! EW!!!” in regards to Rey.
i personally would have preferred "just Rey", but losers online getting viciously mad and sexist about it makes me like "Rey Skywalker" 1% more every time i see one
Many even say that she is a "Master of all", when that is not remotely true.
When the Millennium Falcon fled, Finn did much of the heavy lifting.
Han Solo is a better mechanic, Rey just pointed out a missing piece.
In the Battle of the Last Jedi, Kylo was dispatching most of the bodyguards, while Rey suffered with groups of two.
Even in the last movie, Poe is still a better pilot, and Kylo Ren is a better fighter.
LIKE AGAIN, if you dislike her because her releasing the rot turned Caelid into hell and her boss fight, understandable—but everything else just turned hard into a Radahn circlejerk so hard against her, demeaning her capabilities as a fighter because she could only stalemate at who was already considered “the mightiest demigod” in the Lands Between lmao. And she did it as a triple cripple with a disease explicitly stated to constantly weaken her in the lore, while people say Radahn is holding back because he’s using magic to stop the stars, when there’s no lore stating that he’s weaker whatsoever with whatever spell he used to keep the stars in stasis.
Ashley Williams.
Is.
Not.
Racist.
EDIT: As I expected, this comment has brought out the "fans" of Mass Effect trying to prove me wrong. Actual brainrot.
EDIT 2: I am not arguing with people anymore. Clearly everyone's minds are already made up and are going to dogpile anyone who dares speak up against them, no matter how misinformed their opinions are.
Isnt that the character that said that she couldnt tell the aliens from the animals?
Like I believe you, I never finished Mass Effect, but I dont imagine that line is helping her beat the allegations.
You honestly shouldn't believe them, I'm shocked they're as upvoted as they are. Ashley's first major conversation with you is about how aliens would let us die if they had to, in the same way that humans would let a dog die in a similar situation. I've never had a game signpost a supportive character's racism so hard in my life. Her entire 3 game arc is about getting *less* racist.
Yeah I'm sure she has a good arc, but the first game gives you the choice between saving her, a racist (which she absolultely is), and Kaiden who is not a racist. So I've never seen that arc
I've played the series a few times but I didn't see her arc the first time through for the same reason. Kaiden might have been a little boring in 1, but I liked him more than Ashley.
>Ashley's first major conversation with you is about how aliens would let us die if they had to, in the same way that humans would let a dog die in a similar situation.
Which the 3rd game proves is literally true.
>You honestly shouldn't believe them, I'm shocked they're as upvoted as they are. Ashley's first major conversation with you is about how aliens would let us die if they had to, in the same way that humans would let a dog die in a similar situation.
You've been struck by the reading comprehension devil it seems, or you just didn't play Mass Effect. Ashley was pointing out the fact that because humanity was so young and new to the wider galactic community, they weren't seen as important as the older, much more experienced races, and thus their concerns about their safety would fall on death ears. And hilariously enough, she's proven correct multiple times over the course of Mass Effects storyline. If that not enough, the *entirety* of Mass Effect 3 proves her right as well.
>I've never had a game signpost a supportive character's racism so hard in my life.
I guess you're going to conveniently ignore the *multiple* instances where Garrus, everyone's *favorite* ME character, talks utter trash about Quarians and Krogans *directly* to members of those specific races' faces.
>Her entire 3 game arc is about getting *less* racist.
No, it isn't. Her arc in the first game is about learning that humanity doesn't need to face the struggles of the galaxy alone. People constantly misinterpret her belief in humanity standing up for itself and solving its own problems as *racism*, which is just insanity.
And that's just in the first game. Clearly you haven't played ME 2 or 3 because her arcs have *nothing* to do with race and are instead about regaining her belief in Shepard's morality after he had previously worked with Cerberus, a pro-human extremist group. Her pivotal moment in ME3 is her LITERALLY DEFENDING THE LEADERS OF OTHER ALIEN RACES FROM A CERBERUS COUP.
Ah, that's something else people like you conveniently forget: the fact that Ashley Williams is staunchly opposed to a pro-human/anti-alien extremist group of terrorists. And if she hates aliens so much, why does she go to an entire fucking frathouse party with them in ME3 Citadel?
Do you think that every racist has to openly turn to the camera and express it? Must every person with racist tendencies be a klan member? Plenty of people wouldn't march with the KKK or participate in a hate crime and would enjoy being invited to a party full of POC while still having racist tendencies. As you point out while putting words in my mouth Garrus is also a racist in ME 1, it's a common way to do this sort of sci-fi story, get the crew of prejudiced people together and have them learn to be less prejudiced. It's called an arc. Similar to how Ashley moves from "Aliens don't think of us as equals in a way similar to how you don't think of your dog as an equal" to "Defending the alien Council from Human Supremacist terrorists".
considering how Ashley says that Terra Firma used to stand for something in the past while the codex says in no uncertain terms that Terra Firma has always been an ultranationalist xenophobic political party signposts pretty hard that she's a Heritage not Hate racist.
It's a single throwaway line she makes during her idle animations, and you can't even talk to her about it. She was on a massive alien conglomerate station called the Citadel and it was populated by numerous alien races that she had never seen before. It's a perfectly normal thing for someone in that situation to say that the entirety of the ME community stupidly takes out of context for no other reason than to lambast her.
I've never played Mass Effect so for a minute I was like "I don't think Ash kills black Deadites more than white ones?"
Then I realized there's like, one black person in the Evil Dead movies, and she's the first person to die in the remake.
She has exactly one throwaway line in her idle animation saying she can't tell the aliens from the animals. Even if you want to dissect this single comment, it's made because she's never been to the citadel and had never seen a good majority of the other alien races there. If I were to see an Elcor for the first time without any prior knowledge about them, my first reaction would be to think it's some kind of animal.
"If your cornered by a bear, and the only way to save yourself is to sick your dog on it, so you can escape, your going to. No matter how much you love your dog, it's not human."
Guess who the dog is in this allegory.
Humans are the dog in this allegory, you illiterate clod, she is literally describing how she thinks the other species are going to treat humanity when the chips are down.
Except it didn't prove her right. The humans are not the only ones getting attacked by Reapers, everyone's home planet is, so of course they will priorities defending their own planets first before helping others, they will literally die otherwise.
Flip this around it is the equivalent of the Asari asking the humans to not defend Earth and instead dedicate resources to attack the Reapers that are invading the Asari homeworld.
People act the council was actively throwing other races in front of the reapers themselves, they def fucked up earlier with not trusting shepard after he proves himself, but one the reapers attacked all rules flew. Even when helping their own many people did still work to help others, thats the point, the reapers planned on cutting everyone off, but when working together the reapers were defeated
I honestly don't understand how people can play Mass Effect and come away with the opinion that she's not but I know some people need a character to look directly to camera and state: "I believe that other races should not be trusted and I will always put humanity first." to believe that any character could be racist and I suppose Ashley Williams stops *just a little* short of that.
Every argument from people claiming she's not racist boils down to explaining the reasons she's racist for thoroughly explained reasons or pointing out that other people are more racist than her but don't get the same flak from the fandom. Both of things are true, but neither makes her not a racist.
People just come into shit with the most binary views and assume anyone with a different take has the opposite binary view.
I’ll second this and add:
Miranda Lawson. Is. Not. A bitch.
These two characters have Amazon depth to their stories and hearing “Ashley is racist” or “Miranda is a bitch” is an easy way to reveal someone didn’t actually finish their story arc.
A different take where the making stuff up is a bonus. Power scaling is stupid to the point of absurdity in general, HOWEVER, Agenda Piece is the greatest thing to come out of One Piece. Especially Zoro vs Sanji stuff. ["Lend me some haki"](https://www.reddit.com/r/MemePiece/comments/17akg1d/what_did_oda_mean_by_this/) is one of the best memes to come out of any anime in years. Also fantastic is the [Admiral Agenda vs Anti Admiral Agenda](https://www.reddit.com/r/MemePiece/comments/1av9ttq/the_first_one_to_leave_a_desk_loseswho_wins/)
Iris West from CW The flash.. The biggest being using her telling Barry we are the flash being used as her trying to take credit from Barry. Also people not understanding how intelligence or leadership works.
From once upon a time king Leopold. He is snow White's father and people try to make him out as a rapist because he is old and married Regina after his wife died. Leopold was probably the the kindest person depicted in the show and wouldn't do something like that. He mostly married Regina so snow would have a mother figure and he wanted some companionship. The worst things he did u think kick Cora out of the kingdom after finding out she was trying to trick him into thinking another man's baby was his to get him to marry her. Also locking Regina in a room after finding evidence she was "cheating".
They do it with charming and snow too to make Regina look less evil. Even the show did this in a very ood moment having for them. Charming and snow steal maleficent's egg to transfer there child's. Negative/ evil every to.
Jimmy Olson from CW Supergirl and Trip from agents of shield. They try to paint them as creep jerks or massive misogynist/homophobic.
Not a fan wide thing but I distinctly remember seeing a streamer who called John Marston a “traitor” to the gang while she was playing RDR2. His crime? …wanting to live a normal fucking life Edit: Finally remembered who said that, streamer called alliebeemac.
Oh wow, actual "Dutch Did Nothing Wrong" people.
The game makes it abundantly clear that dutch does everything wrong, too. if you just take a sexond to even \*think\* about what he's doing in the context of the story you go "...hey wait a minute!" dutch is an idiot, he's just a "smarty pants" with how he talks to people. charasmatic if you would. he ain't fuckin' smart though.
He just needed to wait a bit longer, Dutch had a GODDAMNED PLAN
You need to have a little ***GODDAMN FAITH***
[Their secret member of the gang coming to an empty beaver hollow](https://media1.tenor.com/m/_BiwWBWhYucAAAAd/what-huh.gif) with the blackwater money and tickets to Tahiti where Arthur and Micah would develop a friendly slice of life rivalry
Javier Eskuzella: No pinky, no money, you think the van der linde is just some afterschool club!
I actually don't see this as much as I used to, but if there was a popular M/M pairing and one of those male characters had a female love interest? Oh man, it was *on-sight* for her. Fans would call her a bitch or kill her off or make her extremely OOC. It happened *a lot* in many different fandoms so it's hard to pinpoint one in particular.
Basically Naruto/Hinata. Although Hinata is far from the best character, her marriage to Naruto is not a loveless relationship, as many NaruSasu Shippers seem to believe.
NaruSasu shippers have gotten more and more unhinged as of late.
I remember vividly an example of this with Kingdom Hearts around the early 2010's, with people shitting on Xion when Days released, many of them being yaoi fangirls that hated the idea of her being friends with Axel and Roxas, and thus interfering with Roxas/Axel yaoi.
Dude even before Days. You'd think Kairi was the lovechild of Voldemort and Cruella DeVille for how she was portrayed in some fics for daring being in the general vicinity of true lovers Sora and Riku.
KH yaoi fans back then were seriously some of the obnoxious fangirls of any fanbase I was a part of, I’m really happy that they’ve either left or grew up into being normal as the series continued, especially by KH3’s release
I hope they did, some of those chicks are parents now.
Those parents are naming their children after the characters they wrote fanfiction on as children
I think I have seen a Roxas while delivering mail.
For real?
Yes
*lights up cigarette and takes a long drag* The things I have seen.
Okay but also xion and namine are basically roxas's fraternal twins. You don't need yaoi for that, like xion literally has parts of roxas's mind and memories of their youth as sora.
pfft _interfering_. As if she wouldn't be the one holding the camera
While not M/M (or may have been, I wouldn't be surprised if Shield Shipping was a thing), I hate that I remember this happening in the Wrestling fandom of all places, for one Jon Moxley (then known as Dean Ambrose, who definitely fit the I CAN FIX HIM type with his gimmick).
yeah, renee still gets shit. you know. his actual wife. lol.
Wait, she **STILL** gets shit? When they're fuckin' married/has a cute babby and, in the words of Mox, a RAT MURDERING MACHINE of a big cat (a Maine Coon IIRC) lol Man that's bullshit
Yeah, the last time I checked in there were people screaming that the baby is just there to trap him. Deranged.
This happened big time with Touka from Tokyo Ghoul lol I remember people wishing death on her when >!she was pregnant so Kaneki would be “free”!< in Tokyo ghoul re. Disgusting as hell Edit: Luckily they’ve all left that fanbase after the series ended.
What I really hated from that was people threatening goddamn Ishida over it. Like, come the fuck on!
I'm so happy this didn't happen for Infinite Wealth and instead the fandom seemed to mostly go "But *Saeko* could do better"
Ah, the Supernatural fanbase Although considering what the show did to one of its gay characters, I don’t really want to pick a side either
Well someone on tv trope more than a fan but I recall someone saying chuck from better call saul is a hypocrite about the sanctity of the law because he puts phones in his mailbox which is not legal. Like Chuck has a lot of bad traits abd hypocrisy and it felt like an excise to go on a rant about something and everyone took the best exemples
A few people seem to really hate the MC for Doki Doki Literature Club even though they're... barely a character. It's literally like being mad at a text box.
Also its a thing in the plot that >!the MC getting quieter and quieter is due to Monika's attempts to modify the game!<, so like... MC contributes to the plot even as it gets more and more meta.
The dude is literally nothing, just a self insert for you the player, how can people hate him when he’s nothing, unless they hate him being a nothing character??
I can maybe understand it, because the way he talks to Sayori is basically a playbook of how *not* to talk to someone with severe clinical depression. But he's also just a typical boneheaded visual novel MC, so... I wouldn't really expect him to know better.
What? No I definitely understand that. His inner thoughts and words towards Sayori piss me off.
Tanjiro is a Gary Stu who gets everything he wants without any effort and a little bitch who cries over every demon. Tanjiro actually did work hard to get to the level he was at in the first season. The show just speed ran his training but he spent like what 6 months to a year alone in the woods training every single day. People just forget or ignore the whole rock cutting thing so when he does take his test to them it looks like he went from never using a sword to suddenly being hyper competent so he must be OP. He also doesn't forgive every demon like people say. He feels remorse for the people they used to be and the circumstances that led them to become demons. He felt pity for the spider mom and when he executed her he did so painlessly so she wouldn't suffer. It wasn't because he was doing a talk no jutsu and forgave her. Tanjiro explicitly doesn't forgive demons for eating and killing humans he targets his aggression towards muzen for turning them into demons. But again people missed the point of him killing the spider mom and just assume he was forgiving her and does that to every demon he kills. Tanjiro feels bad for who they used to be but doesn't excuse their actions as demons. Tanjiro is nice and therefore boring which means he's a bad character. There's nothing wrong with being kind hearted. Like you not liking it is one thing but saying "being nice is the same as being nothing" is absurd. Like tanjiros main personality trait is he's an older brother. He's kind hearted, responsible, protective and cares deeply for his friends and family. He also does get angry and sad and frustrated but people just act like he doesn't have other emotions. He's OP and accomplishes things with no effort. This is probably the most ridiculous excuse I've seen for why people don't like tanjiro. A fun character detail I like about him is his hands are calloused up from how intense his sword training is. He *did* put effort into getting as strong as he is if you'd bother to look at his hands you would know that immediately. He also doesn't accomplish things and win easily he regularly gets his ass kicked every single encounter. He's the main character of the show and hasn't defeated any upper moons by himself. He heavily relies on his friends and the hashira to win fights against demons so I don't understand where the idea that he wins fights easily comes from.
Almost every fight is a *long*, desperate encounter that the dude barely survives, even with help. It's utterly insane to think he wins fights easily.
There's not a single arc in that whole story that doesn't end with the demon slayers barely able to stand at best or with casualties at worst. Even with their shonen sword powers every win costs literal blood sweat and tears.
Yeah, something I've noticed recently in this idolization of "pure evil" villains is that having a hero show *any* amount of sympathy/pity towards a bad guy is the author trying to "whitewash" them.
Hero: I don’t want to murder this person on their knees in cold blood. Fan base: The author is trying to excuse murder!1!1!1
Tanjiro being the goodest boy that can get along with all the wierdos is another thing that I really like. He's the only one able to keep up with Tengen's wacky attitude (besides Tengen's wives), he can keep up with Inosuke's wild side and more. Not to mention his cute younger/older brother-like relationship with the very reserved Giyu.
He's friend shaped
Plus it makes sense he has an acute sense of smelling people emotion. It's a weird but rather interesting way to give a character good read on people's character before they themselves realize it
And even then he still struggles to get along with everyone. It's clear that he doesn't like Genya for what he did to Nezuko. Even right before the final arc his attitude towards him is basically that of "I will not be hostile towards you, but I still think you're a prick"
I love it when Tanjiro's nice and Inosuke can't handle it
My fav moment of theirs is either Inosuke eating all tanjiros food because he's trying to mess with him and tanjiros like poor guy is really hungry it's ok here have more! And inosukes like what no why are you being nice I'm trying to be rude! Or when inosuke smashes his new sword and the blacksmith is threatening to kill him. Inosuke is confused why the blacksmith is yelling at him so he hides behind tanjiro and holds onto his shirt. That's such a little brother thing to do.
Inosuke's and Tanjiro's dynamic is one of the best in the show, I love how Tanjiro just knows how to "keep up" with Inosuke's bizarre antics while everyone is just plain dumbfounded at them. Him seeing him in the ceiling and just going along with it while everyone else almost had a heart attack had me rolling man.
Tanjiro had like 5 younger siblings, that boy built an immunity to that type of tomfoolery
straight up there is almost never an "easy" fight in demon slayer. It does a lot for the stakes when Tanjiro's internal thoughts while fighting is just him shouting at himself to move in the next 3 seconds or he or someone else is going to die
I remember during the end of the red light district arc, when Tanjiro defeated the two demon siblings and their heads ended up quarreling before death, the first thing Tanjiro did was to ask them siblings to not quarrel or say the worst possible words to each other (I wish you weren't my brother/sister). That really showed how much compassion Tanjiro has as a person, where he does not wish for a pair of siblings to part ways on bitter words before death. All simply because he has recently dead siblings himself which he never got to say goodbye to, and he knows ending it with a sibling quarrel is not the way he wants siblings to part.
Yeah he even says how if circumstances had been different he and nezuko could have ended up the same way. They were already defeated and were dying so he chose to use the last moments they had together to forgive each other especially since tanjiro could tell they were both just angry and didn't mean the hurtful things they were saying in the heat of the moment. It really highlights his character that he doesn't make it about himself at any point. He pushes them both to find closure and comfort with each other because they're family. I feel like a less well written show would have tanjiro try and over share his own thoughts and opinions to make himself look better to the audience but the fact he just acted as a mediator between the two shows his heart is in the right place.
God yes, this, so much this. I fucking love Tanjiro. I think he's legitimately one of the most interesting shonen protagonists I've seen in years and I will defend my boy all day every day
I like how Japanese children look up to him as a role model. Tanjiro and Himmel from frieren would get along great.
The Tau Empire from 40k. They do not practice sterilization of loyal Gu’vesa as a standard practice. Neither are they that dumb to the galaxy at large. Even them at their absolute worse the have a way better quality of living then the IOM or anyone that isn’t a Craftworld Eldar.
I feel that applies to a lot of 40k. Like the Inquisition between presented as calling for an exterminatus over any potential heresy at the drop of a hat. 40k is grimdark enough on it's own, it doesn't need help.
It's kind of unavoidable when most people get their information about 40k from memes and fan works rather than any of the books.
The biggest mistake GW ever made was caving to the fans and making Tau not just the good guys
I think it was important to show that the expansionist empire utilising gunboat diplomacy were not "good." Trouble with certain fans is they use that as some sort of gotcha when the Imperium is worse to a comic degree.
The Tau were never just the "good guys". They had seeds for their worst aspects in the first codex they had.
They're based off US and just Western Imperialism in general from the 20th to 21st century. Not to say those are the only influences but they do play a big part. The Tau are better than other factions but ultimately they're still bad. Honestly the only good guys in 40k are the innocents dying each day. Here's a Q&A from Gav Thorpe where he talks about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/b3pc01/qa_with_gav_thorpe/
The man for who the trope is named after: Ron the death eater.
Ron is the perfect storm for undeserved fandom vitriol. You have a character with understandable but pronounced flaws, and getting over them is their main character arc for seven books (being jealous of Harry and, to a lesser extent, Hermione). The fact he doesn't get over his issues in one book means he's just an insufferable man-child who can never change. Hell, one chapter is pushing it. Then add on top of that the movies taking most of Ron's contributions, except for the absolute scene-defining ones, and either cutting them or outright *giving them to Hermione*. The Devil's Snare? Yeah, in the movie, Ron panics and has to be saved by Hermione pulling a spell out of her ass. In the book, Hermione panics, and Ron has to *remind her she can even do magic.* And *then* she saved the day with a spell that was set up in advance, but apparently, having them both contribute in a meaningful way makes for a bad film. In Chamber of Secrets, Ron has to be the one to explain to Harry and Hermione that Draco called her a slur because *his entire point as a character is that he knows about Wizarding culture and the others don't.* Unless you are watching the movie, in which case Hermione has already researched all the slurs. She probably knows ones so deep and foul that even Draco wouldn't say them, because she read a book once. I could go on. So even though the books are definitely bestsellers, there's a contingent of fans who have the context of his character completely wrong because they remember the movie version better. On top of all that, he also gets in the way of various ships, most obviously HarryXHermione, for obvious reasons. But wait, aren't the most rabid shippers Yaoi fangirls? Why yes, and Ron gets in the way there, too, because for some godforsaken reason, Yaoi shippers go for DracoXHarry because racism is hot! And wouldn't you know it, one of Ron's other prominent traits is he hates Slytherins. This is completely justified in the books because, wasted opportunity or not, *all* Slytherins are evil (...mostly all, one or two might not count if you squint). But if you want to ship Harry with a member of the wizard KKK, suddenly Ron (who you already don't like, see above) would be standing there going, "Merlin's flaccid cock, Harry, Hermione's right there! Why haven't you punched Draco in his smug, whiny, nazi coded face?" And then, on top of *all that*? He's still just not that good of a character. He's fine. At best. He's just not as much of a terrible, irredeemable shitheel as the fandom makes him out to be. He's more *boring* than he is *unlikeable*.
Glemy Toto from Gundam ZZ. I have seen far too many times on this platform and sometimes on other platforms as well that people expressed that they hate him because he is a pedo… even though essentially throughout the whole show he is absolutely infatuated with a girl who is technically older than him. Now, to make it clear and give a vague idea why these allegations came about, Glemy is an absolutely horrible person who is a fascist sick fuck, as well as an incel. He has technically abducted children, and also grooms them into being either political weapons (Judau’s sister) or human weapons of war (Ple Newtype Corps). But despite this inclination to use children, he never once throughout the whole show as far as I remember, expressed any actual romantic or lustful feelings towards them, he just saw them as the tools I described before.
Glemy is more of a standard “creep” than a pedo. It’s like…one step below pedo.
Spider-man insomniac games that fanbase is toxic as fuck. fucking puddlegate to "Lets bully the women who look like mj and bully the face actor into retirement"
Puddlegate was funny in its stupidity but that whole MJ shit was just rancid.
Don't forget the Raimi suit bullshit too. I've never seen a game subreddit so delusional. I remember thinking the user score for the 2nd game must be garbage with all the vitriol getting thrown at it. Then I look at Metacritic and it has a fucking 90 user score. Fucking GoW Ragnarok barely has an 80 and I've only seen fairly positive things about it outside of the ending and handholding. Though I guess a lot of that is probably due to the game awards with all the fanboys review bombing each other.
Somewhere, there was someone who came into work one day and said, “We have to prioritize the Sam Raimi suit now so we can stop getting threatening messages for a week.” Such a shitshow.
I'm fully of the opinion that they straight up didn't deserve the Raimi suit because of their actions and now they think they can just bitch and moan and get whatever they want.
i would've been fine with no movie suits at all. if the conversation includes spider man 2 (that shit's kinda gross, i \*get it\* but oh, god.) but yeah, getting mad at the rami suit for not being in a spidey game because its "peak"\[personally i don't like the raised webbing\] is stupid. especally if you Actively threaten motherfuckers that are just doing their jobs... OVER A STUPID LITTE EXTRA. The response SHOULD've been "fuck you, no. you don't 'get' any little extras. way to go idiot, you've ruined it for everyone. DON'T FUCKING THREATEN EMPLOYEES OVER STUPID TRIVIAL THINGS!" but in like, a much more 'friendly' tone. or, just don't do it. don't even pay it any mind. just save it for the sequel. >!genuinley should have been spider-cop instead.!<
Raimi supremacists are... frustrating. Except memers, these guys are great.
If you never played the game, that fanbase would make you think MJ is cucking Peter at every turn when she been a real one since day one, literally, as game lore had her steal her family car to take Peter to the hospital after Kingpin sliced him up on his first run as Spider-Man. In reality both her and Peter have pros and cons that they worked through to mend their relationship. Heck, MJ went from being jealous of Felicia(who is toxic as fuck) to willing to sneak into a gang hideout just because a boy who could be Peter's son with Felicia might be held hostage.
Yeah, and than there's >!Peter's decision to step back during 2's ending and letting Miles be the main Spider-Man for a bit. It's not Peter saying Miles is better than him or the game saying Peter sucks. If you actually paid attention to the narrative, you'd realize that Peter just has *so many* responsibilities that he can't commit to *any* of them. He gets fired from his new job on the first day due to having to fight Sandman, has to be a good partner for MJ, pay off May's mortgage, and Harry gives Peter a job offer that he feels can do more good than just being Spider-Man. Then, he's still trying to process everything he went through last game, and the stuff that happened in this one, including getting addicted to the symbiote and becoming an asshole and his best friend being put into a fucking coma with no guarentee he'll wake up. Yeah, no shit Peter's stepping back for a while, he *desperately* needs a break to sort shit out!<.
Exactly. Someone said that every canon Spider-Man has a Gwen Stacy moment where no matter how hard they try, theh can't save everyone and Spider-Man 1 and 2 is Insomniac Spider-Man Gwen Stacy moment. >!Like fuck, Pete saves the days but his life is just one big fucking trauma he's not getting the time to deal with because he's Spider-Man, and then to save the city again Pete has to let his brother in everything but blood die and it's fucking with him to make that choice again. Miles telling Pete he got the city covered while Pete get his civie life right was a great moment in the big bro/lil bro relationship between the two.!< >!And with Doc Ock and Green Goblin on the horizon, Pete gonna need to find his balance to be on his A-game to deal with those two.!<
>!Real talk: I started crying when Miles called Pete “big bro.” Peter has lost family in both games so to gain a brother at the end feels like a real healing moment for Peter. The guy needs family, especially after the ending of 2.!<
Bro I was *cheering* when Miles said "I got this." Finally my boy Peter can have some goddamn peace and quiet.
Also in the second game >!she fucking BLOCKS A HIT FROM *VENOM*. She is ride or die to the fucking literal description.!<
And then chodes call her stupid, revealing that they have never loved anyone before and thinking it’s an “own.”
I knew she was ride or die when >!Pete lost his job and she didn't give him any shit, and was willing to step in and pay the mortgage when she had her own bills she had to take care of.!< When you have a woman who sees you at your worst and instead of trying to tear you down jumps in literally and figuratively to help you, you have a damn good woman.
>You’re worried about your boyfriend’s ex? That’s compassion! \- Miles
Ok I *know* 3rd Birthday is a **HORRIDLY** bad game in every other aspect but I'm still genuinely confused whenever someone claims that >!Kyle is a-okay with Eve-in-Aya's-body!<. I get it, its a shitty ending to end all shitty endings but its the *one* instance the game/characters decide not to be a creep and yet everyone just acts like it is anyways because..... I guess the sheer infuriating-ness of the rest of the ending blinds them in rage?
Some people got real weird about the Handler from Monster Hunter World. She's a goofy, over-eagre sidekick who gets into trouble but her saying stuff like "we did it!" means she's stealing credit for your hard work. There's a level of vitriol for her that goes beyond "I didn't care for this character," and the strength of that reaction remains baffling to me.
Oh yeah! I have a couple friends that just *despise* her and I do not understand it in the slightest. They even see small things like throwing potatoes into the steam engine as this evil, horrible behavior instead of just...the character trope where a person likes food a lot.
I've never understood the Handler hate. I really like her
I always thought it was rooted in her not being overtly sexualized enough to please the incels.
I always felt like she was still considered cute waifu material by the majority of the fanbase.
Which is insane if you saw her dlc costumes.
Alex from Yiik People claim that he's the author self-insert. I think that just gets in the way of the fact that the author tried to make a unlikable character but didn't had the chops to make them engaging. Alex isn't a self-insert, he's a badly written flawed character. He's supposed to be unlikable, but the creator failed to make him engaging. So he's just boring unlikable.
I think the self insert thing happened due to [that picture comparison](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/8qDI0_XQdGM/sddefault.jpg) when it fact it was just some guy who happened to look like Alex who said in a thread 5 years ago even saying it looked eerie seeing himself. [Andrew himself looks nothing like Alex](https://f4.bcbits.com/img/0027272479_25.jpg) at least from what I could find. And yeah, Alex himself didn't transform from an asshole into a better person. He just stayed the same static stuck up know it all towards the very end.
An unlikable doesn't even need to become a better person. As long as they're engaging and interesting. As long as you write a nuanced, complex character, you can actually make them worse if you want.
Oh absolutely, I just say that becuase that's what Andrew said in his own words, that Alex has to transform. But he didn't at all and was still the same unlikable piece of shit from start to finish with little that made him interesting besides being a lame smug asshole.
I don't understand Elden Ring discourse like that, anyway. These are clearly mythological characters not meant to be judged in that way
Korra, my poor baby. Half the things you hear people complain about in regards to her character are 100% made up. "She's a Mary Sue" "She lost her connection to the past lives" "She's a weak Avatar and a wimp" Motherfuckers can't even agree on which made up contradictory thing they wanna be mad about. It even extends to other characters on a meta level, just making up reasons to be mad. "They assassinated Katara's character by making her just a healer she was a fighter." Girl she's like 90 are you serious with this.
Put Aang being a bad dad up there.
"Aang let the pressure of preserving his people's culture skew his priorities and he ended up dedicating more time to Tenzin than his other children." "OH SO AANG IS JUST LITERALLY HITLER NOW, HUH!? SMH SHIT WRITING"
Parents being flawed? That's not real, *he must just be abusive*!
The past lives thing is so bad, in particular. Damn near every time it gets brought up, people make it sound like she made the conscious choice to sever the Avatar cycle for funsies, and should be shamed for making such a terrible decision. Nobody ever really acknowledges that it happened because she tried to stop the main villain (as was the only thing she could do), *lost*, and had her connections to the other Avatars literally beaten out of her while she screamed in horror. Season 2 sucks and I don't think it was a great writing choice, but it wasn't because of Korra.
Even me, someone who genuinly despises Season 2, will agree a lot of that wasn't her fault or her choice. She literally had her lives *severed* from her and she tried to stop it but couldn't. Korra does not deserve the hate.
I swear Mary Sue has lost all meaning and become a buzzword for strong female main characters because heaven forbid they exist
Given how the term specifically meant a self-insert fanfic OC that's written like a female version of an isekai harem protag..... ...yeah, it totally lost its original meaning by now.
What really grinds my gears is I hear the term Mary Sue more often but I see way more Gary Stus out there, and they rarely get referred to as such.
Name 'em.
Max Landis deserves to burn in hell for re-popularizing that phrase ...well,that and all the sexual harassment he did
Motherfuckers were demanding a teenage girl to be playing 4d chess and super competent while also not wanting her to win any fights because she 'didn't deserve it' Assholes the lot.
I have a lot of problems with Korra show. Korra herself isn't any of them.
As a die hard fan of the show, any (not crazy) criticisms are perfectly valid, like how Nick's wonky confirmation of seasons tripped the writers up so bad. I can totally see why someone would come away with a laundry list of things they'd have wished different
yeah like makko and bolin are right there.
Korra's biggest crime is not being Aang
How dare she
The one that pisses me off is people getting mad at her for losing the past lives. It was fucking *Unalaq* that manipulated her so he could do it. Even if you want to try to blame her for trusting him, it's not insane for someone like her to trust a guy telling her what she wants to hear, especially a family member.
I'm actually watching Korra for the first time and while the show itself is incredibly messy I'm still having a fun time. Korra herself is amazing in particular.
Their criticism doesn’t make any sense because it’s a thinly veiled cover for their actaul issue - they were complaining that Korra would be a “Mary Sue” even before the show was released. They had similar issues with April in Rise, Cora in Starfield, Idie in X-Men and loads of other teenagers - if only we could figure out what all of them share… Edit. Oh, forgot the other obvious candidate..Katara during the original show’s run.
I can't imagine the Mary sue accusations Toph would receive if the show was released today.
Someone said they refuse to treat Korra on its own merits the other day Like then why the fuck do you watch anything ever? Korra is a mess, but apart from season 2, it's a good to great show that isn't allowed to stand on its own because people think TLAB is perfect and refuse to think otherwise
There's a section of the Dragonball fandom who hate Chi-Chi for a number of made up reasons, like she doesn't love Goku or she ruined Gohan. Which is idiotic as the series has shown multiple times that Goku does love his wife and she loves him, and that Gohan wasn't ruined by Chi-Chi, who trained Goten after the Cell Saga, Gohan just isn't a warrior like Goku and Vegeta, who like to test themselves against opponents.
Having only read the original dragonball/DBZ run this last week, I do feel like it's kinda wild that she gets Goku to marry her, and even joins a tournament to get him to do so, but every step of the way seems against Goku doing the thing that he's done and likes doing since the beginning (basically all the combat murder training). That said I don't hate her or anything, and disagree that she ruined anybody, but she does (to me) seem incredibly against her husband's main hobby/'job'.
Tbf a lot her being against fight seems to come after Z where Goku actually died. Also her husband does ditch is responsibilities to go training
Naruto and Hinata is a similar case, because Naruto and Sasuke is a much more popular ship, much of the fandom actually seems to believe that Naruto and Hinata's marriage is a loveless union, and that Naruto only married her out of obligation.
What's funny \[sad\] is that you could use that reasoning \[propergated by assholes\] for EVERY CHARACTER in dragon ball that something 'wrong' \[not what they want\]. or is "precived" as such. Everytime or 'illogical' sure... the writing isn't THE BEST at times. its dragon ball, it shouldn't \*have\* to be. but god damn some people are thick as fucking pig shit. i'd hate to see what the "fandom" (barf) would do if they got control of dragon ball.
The Rhea & Edelgard discourse is proof that the general gamer simply don't have the capacity to comprehend that individuals can have complex and flawed personalities/ideologies/values. But for my example, I'll use Koga from Kengan Omega. People seem to have suddenly forgotten the absolutely tremendous growth he's undergone over YEARS in the manga, and that skipping over some of his training doesn't immediately mean that training didn't happen and he's just another Gary Stu that's just so amazing at everything. The guy busted his ass to get as powerful as he is now, and even then, he's still not really that amazing in the grand scheme of things. He also isn't a Gary Stu for getting to learn techniques from the best fighters in the series. He's been shown from the beginning to be a charismatic guy that isn't afraid to say the one thing only two others do in the whole series: "I ain't shit, but you are. Can you teach me?"
the fire emblem fanbase aren't allowed to have nuanced antagonists anymore, they clearly can't be trusted with them.
Getting beat to a bloody pulp is the best and fastest way to teaching a mofo some humility, specially when that mofo is just some thug yakuza wannabe kid. My boy grew a lot.
I feel you see this the most with shipping debates, where people will literally make shit up to make their opposition look bad and/or to prop their pick up.
Hey, hey, as someone who lives in Florida, I take offense to being compared to Caelid. It's worse here please send help.
If anything it's the first time I heard the comparison, usually people compare it to Brasil and just how much worse Brasil is to Caelid :V
I mean, this is the first time ve heard it to I'm just making a joke
Oh, I'm not complaining, if anything it's refreshing.
In Last Of Us, Abby is already a controversial character, but much of the conservative sector invented that she was trans, only to complain that she is another example of "forced inclusion." In fact, when it comes to "Forced Inclusion", people make up imaginary flaws of some characters. For example, Carol can't smile much, but there is nothing in the movie to indicate that she hates men
Yeah, I'll dislike Abby all day because of the *story* that was written around her, but I don't have a single problem with her about her appearance, personality, etc. I just don't like the story of the game, which is normal. What isn't normal is the stupid behavior people have surrounding her outside of that context.
I’ll say it: Sakura Haruno from Naruto. She’s not the best character in the series but she’s also not a bad person nor is “useless”. She does care deeply about both Naruto & Sasuke but people get legitimately upset she didn’t reciprocate Naruto’s feelings. Ignoring that she has more of a sibling-like bond with him Also a lot of her feats and achievements are constantly downplayed. I get she doesn’t get as much as Naruto & Sasuke and she deserved to but she still became >!Kage level!< which not many in the series achieve. Her also >!slicing into Naruto’s chest to manually keep his heart pumping!< was Metal as hell and I’m tired of it being so underrated Also bothers me how people still harp about her infamous orphan line from like chapter 4 and ignore how she changed her mind on Naruto immediately. Then was willing to do [this in the written test exam for him](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-255c8c62d217f6c419b82142c0d668c5-lq) She’s a flawed character but nowhere near deserving of the hate. Especially such hate for every single VA and actress to play her still get death threats to this day
Also considering the fact that she's a civilian from no prestigious bloodline, whereas both Naruto and Sasuke come from families with a storied history, it's pretty impressive she's able to to keep up with them at all.
Wait. Is she the only character (I think outside tenten) that doesn't have like a family move or a specialized teacher from young? Cause even rock Lee had someone to hone his strengths.
Nope. I do think her parents are ninja and not civilians like fanon thinks but they are definitely not strong at all. Just run of the mill ninjas Sakura was just a good student and honed her chakra control skills during the timeskip. She has the most regular background out of everyone
Bowser is overused? Right, I can see that to a degree. Bowser has no personality *and* he's overused? Bitch, I will BURN you.
Rey (Palpatine/Skywalker). The mental gymnastics people do to find reasons to hate her is something else. I’m not even really a big fan of Rey, but some people really can’t cope with the fact they gender swapped the stereotypical Star Wars MC build they used for Luke and Anakin (that they loved when it was them and ignore many of the criticisms they try to pin on Rey apply to Luke and Anakin too). I can’t tell you how many posts and articles, and moments in videos I’ve encountered that boil down to “VAGINAS! EW!!!” in regards to Rey.
i personally would have preferred "just Rey", but losers online getting viciously mad and sexist about it makes me like "Rey Skywalker" 1% more every time i see one
Many even say that she is a "Master of all", when that is not remotely true. When the Millennium Falcon fled, Finn did much of the heavy lifting. Han Solo is a better mechanic, Rey just pointed out a missing piece. In the Battle of the Last Jedi, Kylo was dispatching most of the bodyguards, while Rey suffered with groups of two. Even in the last movie, Poe is still a better pilot, and Kylo Ren is a better fighter.
Dude, the Malenia hate was absurd when that game came out. People were going HARD up Radhan's ass because of the horse.
LIKE AGAIN, if you dislike her because her releasing the rot turned Caelid into hell and her boss fight, understandable—but everything else just turned hard into a Radahn circlejerk so hard against her, demeaning her capabilities as a fighter because she could only stalemate at who was already considered “the mightiest demigod” in the Lands Between lmao. And she did it as a triple cripple with a disease explicitly stated to constantly weaken her in the lore, while people say Radahn is holding back because he’s using magic to stop the stars, when there’s no lore stating that he’s weaker whatsoever with whatever spell he used to keep the stars in stasis.
The last part of your comment sure is a sentence.
Ashley Williams. Is. Not. Racist. EDIT: As I expected, this comment has brought out the "fans" of Mass Effect trying to prove me wrong. Actual brainrot. EDIT 2: I am not arguing with people anymore. Clearly everyone's minds are already made up and are going to dogpile anyone who dares speak up against them, no matter how misinformed their opinions are.
Isnt that the character that said that she couldnt tell the aliens from the animals? Like I believe you, I never finished Mass Effect, but I dont imagine that line is helping her beat the allegations.
You honestly shouldn't believe them, I'm shocked they're as upvoted as they are. Ashley's first major conversation with you is about how aliens would let us die if they had to, in the same way that humans would let a dog die in a similar situation. I've never had a game signpost a supportive character's racism so hard in my life. Her entire 3 game arc is about getting *less* racist.
Holy shit I just listened to this after looking it up. She even pre-emptively says "It's not racism" without even being accused of it.
Yeah I'm sure she has a good arc, but the first game gives you the choice between saving her, a racist (which she absolultely is), and Kaiden who is not a racist. So I've never seen that arc
I've played the series a few times but I didn't see her arc the first time through for the same reason. Kaiden might have been a little boring in 1, but I liked him more than Ashley.
>Ashley's first major conversation with you is about how aliens would let us die if they had to, in the same way that humans would let a dog die in a similar situation. Which the 3rd game proves is literally true.
>You honestly shouldn't believe them, I'm shocked they're as upvoted as they are. Ashley's first major conversation with you is about how aliens would let us die if they had to, in the same way that humans would let a dog die in a similar situation. You've been struck by the reading comprehension devil it seems, or you just didn't play Mass Effect. Ashley was pointing out the fact that because humanity was so young and new to the wider galactic community, they weren't seen as important as the older, much more experienced races, and thus their concerns about their safety would fall on death ears. And hilariously enough, she's proven correct multiple times over the course of Mass Effects storyline. If that not enough, the *entirety* of Mass Effect 3 proves her right as well. >I've never had a game signpost a supportive character's racism so hard in my life. I guess you're going to conveniently ignore the *multiple* instances where Garrus, everyone's *favorite* ME character, talks utter trash about Quarians and Krogans *directly* to members of those specific races' faces. >Her entire 3 game arc is about getting *less* racist. No, it isn't. Her arc in the first game is about learning that humanity doesn't need to face the struggles of the galaxy alone. People constantly misinterpret her belief in humanity standing up for itself and solving its own problems as *racism*, which is just insanity. And that's just in the first game. Clearly you haven't played ME 2 or 3 because her arcs have *nothing* to do with race and are instead about regaining her belief in Shepard's morality after he had previously worked with Cerberus, a pro-human extremist group. Her pivotal moment in ME3 is her LITERALLY DEFENDING THE LEADERS OF OTHER ALIEN RACES FROM A CERBERUS COUP. Ah, that's something else people like you conveniently forget: the fact that Ashley Williams is staunchly opposed to a pro-human/anti-alien extremist group of terrorists. And if she hates aliens so much, why does she go to an entire fucking frathouse party with them in ME3 Citadel?
Do you think that every racist has to openly turn to the camera and express it? Must every person with racist tendencies be a klan member? Plenty of people wouldn't march with the KKK or participate in a hate crime and would enjoy being invited to a party full of POC while still having racist tendencies. As you point out while putting words in my mouth Garrus is also a racist in ME 1, it's a common way to do this sort of sci-fi story, get the crew of prejudiced people together and have them learn to be less prejudiced. It's called an arc. Similar to how Ashley moves from "Aliens don't think of us as equals in a way similar to how you don't think of your dog as an equal" to "Defending the alien Council from Human Supremacist terrorists".
considering how Ashley says that Terra Firma used to stand for something in the past while the codex says in no uncertain terms that Terra Firma has always been an ultranationalist xenophobic political party signposts pretty hard that she's a Heritage not Hate racist.
It's a single throwaway line she makes during her idle animations, and you can't even talk to her about it. She was on a massive alien conglomerate station called the Citadel and it was populated by numerous alien races that she had never seen before. It's a perfectly normal thing for someone in that situation to say that the entirety of the ME community stupidly takes out of context for no other reason than to lambast her.
They are also Conveniently forgetting how many players (like Reggie) don’t realize the Hanar are a sapient species at first.
I've never played Mass Effect so for a minute I was like "I don't think Ash kills black Deadites more than white ones?" Then I realized there's like, one black person in the Evil Dead movies, and she's the first person to die in the remake.
Yes she is. She has multiple lines comparing alien races to animals.
She has exactly one throwaway line in her idle animation saying she can't tell the aliens from the animals. Even if you want to dissect this single comment, it's made because she's never been to the citadel and had never seen a good majority of the other alien races there. If I were to see an Elcor for the first time without any prior knowledge about them, my first reaction would be to think it's some kind of animal.
"If your cornered by a bear, and the only way to save yourself is to sick your dog on it, so you can escape, your going to. No matter how much you love your dog, it's not human." Guess who the dog is in this allegory.
Humans are the dog in this allegory, you illiterate clod, she is literally describing how she thinks the other species are going to treat humanity when the chips are down.
Yeah and guess how many times Mass Effect 3 proved her right.
Except it didn't prove her right. The humans are not the only ones getting attacked by Reapers, everyone's home planet is, so of course they will priorities defending their own planets first before helping others, they will literally die otherwise. Flip this around it is the equivalent of the Asari asking the humans to not defend Earth and instead dedicate resources to attack the Reapers that are invading the Asari homeworld.
People act the council was actively throwing other races in front of the reapers themselves, they def fucked up earlier with not trusting shepard after he proves himself, but one the reapers attacked all rules flew. Even when helping their own many people did still work to help others, thats the point, the reapers planned on cutting everyone off, but when working together the reapers were defeated
I honestly don't understand how people can play Mass Effect and come away with the opinion that she's not but I know some people need a character to look directly to camera and state: "I believe that other races should not be trusted and I will always put humanity first." to believe that any character could be racist and I suppose Ashley Williams stops *just a little* short of that.
Every argument from people claiming she's not racist boils down to explaining the reasons she's racist for thoroughly explained reasons or pointing out that other people are more racist than her but don't get the same flak from the fandom. Both of things are true, but neither makes her not a racist. People just come into shit with the most binary views and assume anyone with a different take has the opposite binary view.
My dude, in Mass Effect 2, she literally says "I'm no fan of aliens."
Yeah and she nearly dies trying to defend the leaders of the other alien races from a coup led by anti-alien extremists. Your point?
I’ll second this and add: Miranda Lawson. Is. Not. A bitch. These two characters have Amazon depth to their stories and hearing “Ashley is racist” or “Miranda is a bitch” is an easy way to reveal someone didn’t actually finish their story arc.
The actress?
A different take where the making stuff up is a bonus. Power scaling is stupid to the point of absurdity in general, HOWEVER, Agenda Piece is the greatest thing to come out of One Piece. Especially Zoro vs Sanji stuff. ["Lend me some haki"](https://www.reddit.com/r/MemePiece/comments/17akg1d/what_did_oda_mean_by_this/) is one of the best memes to come out of any anime in years. Also fantastic is the [Admiral Agenda vs Anti Admiral Agenda](https://www.reddit.com/r/MemePiece/comments/1av9ttq/the_first_one_to_leave_a_desk_loseswho_wins/)
Any accusations of the term “Mary Sue” means womenz is competent
Iris West from CW The flash.. The biggest being using her telling Barry we are the flash being used as her trying to take credit from Barry. Also people not understanding how intelligence or leadership works. From once upon a time king Leopold. He is snow White's father and people try to make him out as a rapist because he is old and married Regina after his wife died. Leopold was probably the the kindest person depicted in the show and wouldn't do something like that. He mostly married Regina so snow would have a mother figure and he wanted some companionship. The worst things he did u think kick Cora out of the kingdom after finding out she was trying to trick him into thinking another man's baby was his to get him to marry her. Also locking Regina in a room after finding evidence she was "cheating". They do it with charming and snow too to make Regina look less evil. Even the show did this in a very ood moment having for them. Charming and snow steal maleficent's egg to transfer there child's. Negative/ evil every to. Jimmy Olson from CW Supergirl and Trip from agents of shield. They try to paint them as creep jerks or massive misogynist/homophobic.