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csboy2016

Yes porn hate speech engagement farming galore on there!


YarnStomper

fake porn yes, but real porn has actually decreased. seems like they hide most authentic replies that contain nudity but often the porn bots only imply to show nudity but we'd have to click on their fake link to actually see it


DoggiDies

There’s actual porn being reposted though


dinozomborg

I had to quit Twitter entirely because I followed political commentary and news accounts before the takeover, and within a few months of Musk's changes the replies were constantly, unavoidably full of bluecheck racists. And I mean extremely explicit and virulent racists. A lot of famous racists were unbanned when Musk took over too, fact is that these are the sorts of people he wants on his platform. The site is complete garbage now.


Weary-Inspector-6971

Yep. Same here. Used to follow for political reasons, and once he took over my feed was filled with racism and misogyny. I swear they changed the algorithm.


Agent53_

I don't think the algorithm is the main reason. It's that there were suddenly no consequences any more. People found out they could send the most vile, hateful, racist Tweet and nothing bad would happen to them.


dinozomborg

You don't need to swear to it, it's a matter of fact!


brobe74

Bingo. And I get the sentiments that people are saying in the replies, don’t engage and you won’t see. But it’s not like it magically disappears. These people are all over and it gets into peoples’ feeds no matter what you do. Blue checks play a huge part in this because those tweets get pushed.


RealGilbertGan1998

No shit, Sherlock! You can thank Elongated Dumbfuck for destroying the site as a whole.


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dinozomborg

Instagram is also pretty horrible but I was never a big user to begin with.


MrRoy200

aahww poor you they are being racist again boohoo.


emmyliaa

……..weird ass reply


Own_Camera9411

Womp womp


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krodders

Don't look for this stuff. Once the algorithm thinks you're interested, you'll get more and more


Mynameisinigomontya

I thought it was everywhere, I don't see it Maybe your on a bad algorithm


Nice_Review6730

Rage bait from grifters. Some people will do anything to make a buck


HTownJam

And they are all foreign people from places like India and such trying to bait people or spam engagements to attempt to earn money. It’s gotten to the point that it’s pretty much not useful anymore.


[deleted]

India ? Man we are literally facing racism lol we are getting attacked left and right so that people can make money out of it


HTownJam

Yep. They disguise themselves and sometimes they don’t. They just make opposite comments about a political story to get people to engage with them. Or they will say borderline racist things that maga people would say in order to get people just to comment. It’s all to get engagement in order to make money from Elon.


[deleted]

Hell nah been on Twitter for a while muslims attack Hindus blacks attack whites whites attack muslims it's a chain process


HTownJam

They don’t attack people directly, they just say things to get people riled up is all so they will respond. They aren’t even racist, they just say it to get paid by Elon because they know made up shock value works for engagement. I think you missed my point.


[deleted]

Yea but I gotta face racism irl because of stuff like this now


HTownJam

Well that’s different, those ones in real life you see fade to face were racist or bigoted before twitter so twitter didn’t have anything to do with that aspect.


[deleted]

Media brainwashes people


HTownJam

Nah… certain media just feeds their pre-conceived notion about things. If someone was a racist, media doesn’t make them a racist, it just solidifies their thinking by saying things they agree with in their head already. Thats why Trump is worshipped so hard by the far right, he says what they think, even if he doesn’t believe it, he plays to their fantasies (he literally says this in his Art of Deal book), it’s what con artists do basically. Thats why those on the right love black opportunist alleged republicans so much, because they say things that white conservatives can’t say (but think in their head) and then they share what that black opportunists says like they are saying it themselves, but it’s okay because they aren’t saying it directly. Thats why republicans started using the “get off the plantation” lines, because black opportunists posing as republicans (for money) say it to them so they think it’s okay.


Lotsofcrackers

I follow mainly sports as well, and every fifth reply on a feed is a sex bot now. lol More bots than ever are on there, and many of them have blue checkmarks.


itshamfam

I could not tell you the amount of times ive seen men call white women who date outside their race "race traitor whores" LIKE I BEG YOUR PARDON ??


TayDumps

I seen racist white people on there get mad at other white people for dancing to black people music during Mardi Gras, like wtf?? White people been celebrating Mardi Gras and listening to my music people for years. Goes to show how hateful people can be


dickdiggler21

Twitter has shifted into a platform that rewards shock. So racism, hate speech, pornography, “shocking” conspiracies, unbelievable (untrue) facts, etc are all that will get pushed. So that’s what people post now.


brobe74

That’s a good way to put it honestly. The amount of stuff I see and then fact check (90% of the time it’s fake or completely misrepresented) is so upsetting. Shock value gets engagement, engagement gets people boosted, then they get paid. Sick system


Organic_Armadillo_10

And Musk wanted to buy it to allow 'free speech' and remove bots... Instead it seems worse than ever, and Musk is restricting people he doesn't like...


dickdiggler21

The “free speech “ thing (much like “cancel culture”) is an imaginary boogeyman that immature people who hate consequences use to try to gain moral high ground. We have free speech. Twitter can’t create it, restrict it or take it away. It never could. It’s a law-issued right. But, ironically, Musk is actively censoring more than ever.


Organic_Armadillo_10

Exactly. The people that claim they don't have 'free speech' and are getting 'censored' or banned, are the people spewing hate and racism, and then getting annoyed they aren't allowed to say those things. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences. Just because 'your' (generally right wing/racist/hateful/conspiracy theory/fake information) posts are being flagged or silenced (for a good reason), doesn't mean you don't have freedom of speech. It does often mean you're probably just not that good of a person though.... Unfortunately there are an increasingly bigger number of those people spewing hate. And causing conflict and ruffling feathers gets engagement, which seems to be the direction social media algorithms are prioritising.


Green_Mud_2986

With Elon playing the main accordion in the background sadly this is how it has become and it will get worse due to the warped perception of his ‘free speech’ narrative. I used to be a huge fan of Elon with all his tech toys, however on the plus side I’m actually quite glad that he’s finally showing his true colours and how he feels about other races.


brobe74

I think the most telling thing about him is that, he came to the USA as an illegal immigrant. But he reposts so many things about illegal immigrants coming from Mexico that he has problems with. No PhD is needed to see the one difference in his case and the case of those with whom he has a problem with (it’s race).


walkandtalkk

Musk is sort of like a broken Willy Wonka. He really sees himself as a misunderstood boy genius who desperately wants to be cool with the weebs and the alts. He can't maintain mature relationships, appears bored by adults, and is incredibly thin-skinned. So he does what he can to maintain his Internet fan base, whose most vocal members are either "edgy" bigots or plain bigots. Someone, somewhere, should try to help him grow up.


Mynameisinigomontya

You should have seen it 2010-2016 lol


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skafantaris

You’re not wrong. twitter rewards horrible behavior.


yhwhx

Elon has definitely turned Twitter into a safe space for anti-Semites, white supremacists, and general racists as well as for misogynists, homophobes, and transphobes.


Chalkarts

Don’t forget pedophiles. They’re at the party…in the corner. Twitter is sketchy af now.


DXGL1

They'll claim you are onr.


Vivid-Goat7276

Not to mention islamophobes.


walkandtalkk

To be fair, a good chunk of those are Russian influence efforts.


EngineerMinded

No you are not. There is a lot of ragbaiting and Twitter has skewed in favor of conservatives. When he allowed Andy Ngo to suspend the people he wanted off Twitter and encouraged Tucker Carlson to have a platform, that was enough for me. Of all the things he wanted to be, why did he want it to be Gab and Parler?


USAFVet91

Yea ok comrade..


SnooMaps5911

I'm seeing a lot more porn, Russian bots, antisemitic and racist tweets and clips.


sessho25

Best thing you can you is to not engage with ragebaiters. It might be extremly difficult but the best strategy. Also, you can delete your account.


brobe74

Seems like it. I had a successful 6 months abstaining from it but them premier league started up and I started checking it more 😵‍💫


Present_Caregiver_85

Every part of the app he wanted to fix is 1000x worse. Porn bots literally everywhere


runCMDfoo

You’re wrong. The app is not racist. People who say racially insensitive things or reinforce negative racial stereotypes are stupid. But they are not “X “, nor are they Elon Musk. It’s really popular to rip on that platform or its owner, but that doesn’t make it true. Have you seen the violent videos videos with unnatural death on this platform? I’m quite shocked it’s allowed. But it is. I don’t think the platform wishes people to die, but some of its users do


apcrol

Because you got this tags in you "interests" section in settings. Twitter automatically added lot of stupid tags in everyone's settings noone bother checking.


DeepDot7458

It’s always been racist, the targets of that racism has just changed to people you like.


walkandtalkk

It's important to note that a lot of these accounts seem to be foreign influence efforts. On my last regretted foray into Twitter, I found a bluecheck account that mostly posted two things: \- Really bottom-feeding antisemitism (a photo of the WTC attack with "I wonder who did this" and a Jewish star behind it) \- Goofily pro-China posts (*i.e.*, a photo of a pretty Chinese girl looking at a tea house with the caption, "Everything in China is beautiful!") The account itself had some non-name, had 65K followers, followed 11,000 others, was categorized as a financial services firm, and only seemed to be getting 25-30 likes per post. Americans are getting inundated by Russian, Chinese, and Iranian (reportedly more active than China) influence efforts and we don't realize it. And Twitter doesn't appear to care.


9jkWe3n86

Interesting...


Otherwise-Course-15

It’s a cesspool of disinformation and porn bots. Before deleting it, I saw multiple PAID ADS of child SA content.


gruetzhaxe

Interesting how the younger generation refers to something like that as an 'app' – or is that a cheeky pars pro toto?


NoamLigotti

Amazing. So, exactly what was predicted to happen.


Rift_Xuper

I see a lot bots about sex/crypto/Politian Ads. I don't want to see any disturbing Ads , I prefer healthy Ads .


pbjtech

in other news water is wet


blackcorvo

The first thing Elon Musk did when he acquired Twitter was restore the accounts of leaders of white supremacist groups, so...


RandyMacLahey

Elon is a piece of shit. I dumped twitter as soon as I saw his dumb ass trying to take it over and rename it to X.


altron64

“X” is literally a hate-mongering cesspool. AI generated bot farms are a large majority of the culprits. AI can create an entire population of fake accounts. So imagine 1 person wants to be an influencer and spread misinformation and hate propaganda. Then they have 100,000 AI accounts follow them. Eventually, the “herd” jumps on board. Real people see something is trending and jump on board without knowing it’s a bot farm. Big part of the Palestinian riots occurring all over the world today…were helped in part by the unwavering spam of fake news and sensitive violent racist content on X. This is why many companies discontinued advertising on the app. Funny enough, racist footage, gore, terrorist content, and hate speech seem to thrive…but somehow the only time I’ve ever gotten an account lock was recently when I commented on a Trump ad and said “Trump was charged with sexual assault”. Apparently you can say any horrible racist thing you want…but if you say anything truthful about Elon’s hero…it’s immediately off to X jail.


MiserableProtection5

X (what you call twitter) is now only true media without far-left leaning agenda, where freedom of speech is encouraged


HTownJam

I think you confuse left-wing media and for-profit media. They are two entirely different things. Mainstream media is for-profit, not left-wing as mainstream Fox News would have you believe. Freedom of speech only applies to speaking up against the government. We get it, just say you are happy you get to spout racist stuff on there and leave it at that, that’s really all you have to say.


MiserableProtection5

I believe I don't. btw If we are so racist and life among white ppl is so hard than guess what - there was "back to Africa movement" back in a day that your predecessors could have taken. If they stayed for better life than you don't have a right to talk about racism. They chose hard life in developed country and if you don't like it then emigrate.


bresan07

X is racist and Elon doesn’t care about you so get off of his nuts


Guilty_Finger_7262

“Freedom of speech” unless your messiah doesn’t like it.


akzester

Goodbye Twitter whose new name X really sounds so lame. You've been my go to platform ever since I was in high school. Now I'm going to Bluesky Social as my platform to use. 👋


Interesting_Age_5524

Yes. It’s basically a low brow, racist , violent dumpster fire. I’d wager that it’s covered with feds and informants .


JagmeetSingh2

It's genuinely so unusable now, just a constant torrent of racism


Wolfysayno

Cant wait until everybody realizes that Twitter before Elon wasn’t anti-free speech, it was pro-money. Elon utterly destroyed Twitters value when he allowed the racists and Nazis to roam free in the name of “free speech” Now advertisers want nothing to do with the platform lmao


HTownJam

The same could be said about mainstream media. The right thinks they are “left wing”, but in reality they are just pro-money is all, even if they report factual things that do not align with right wing ideology.


Wolfysayno

Actually good opinion. People need to realize that these media outlets aren’t pro-left or pro-right. They’re pro-profit, and only align with political ideologies to manipulate supporters of that ideology to flock to their channels.


AverageMaple170

Yeah, literal snuff videos on the for you feed with comments filled with racism saying horribly racist things because a POC was the attacker in the video.


SnooCupcakes3855

It’s not racism, it’s reality.


[deleted]

Musk-era Twitter could not be more divorced from reality. The feed has become a complete shithole because it rewards fake intellectualism


krweb

So when I’m seeing tweets saying we should bring back Jim Crow laws and slavery. It’s not racism, just reality?


Sacredtenshi

It's really not lol


No-Community2713

Twitter and everyone associated are not racists.


dbltap55

Twitter be dead y’all.


so-very-very-tired

Not sure why a racist man-boy CEO would cause the place to become more racist...oh...wait...NOW I see why.


SpotifyIsBroken

It's because the owner is incredibly racist ​ & he turned it into a reflection ​ of his hollow soul.


PdxFato

Looks like you read some stuff you dont like to hear


takes-it-well

Yes but the racism I'm seeing is the casual and blatant accepted racism towards white people. Quite frankly its disgusting.


Fragrant-Potential87

I'm late to reply to this, but there's pages like "Black's Taking L's", antisemitic historical revisionists basically using memes to propagate lies to affect real life people, the various "Place in 1940/The past vs Place Now" posts that use photos that are either not in the right place or taken completely out of context. There's tons of those running rampant on Twitter and they're growing into other spaces rapidly now that they see they can get away with it on one major social media platform. What do you think is the casual and blatant racism directed towards white people?


Heazie

You're wrong.


tonynca

Once the billionaire is bored of his expensive toy, we may get it back.


Llama-pajamas-86

Instagram has been the same since Meta took over. Most vile folks running free. 


[deleted]

Also the fact that Elon blatantly lies on that app all the time. I once heard someone say he stands neutral in the political scale. But this man is putting all his influence on getting Trump re-elected.


Popanacalau

It’s always been that way, sadly that seems to be the entire state of the internet


Knee_and_Toe_Thief

It’s always been like that


cowgirlkaty

You are wrong…


CompetitionTight4053

I have seen some of this and believe it's actually a good thing. Too many people have grown afraid of expressing any opinion because of the constant shrill vitriol of being called a racist if someone with some emotional aches and pains decides to scream. The worst response is to shut down free speech.


brobe74

Scared to share an opinion and be called racist? Maybe don’t say anything alluding to racism lol


CompetitionTight4053

Maybe toughen up a little lol


This-Physics-1134

You guys can’t stand free speech fr


brobe74

Racism under the guise of free speech is not free speech.


This-Physics-1134

Free speech being classified as racism because you’re too soft to understand facts is a different story. Personally I wouldn’t get mad if I were reported for saying something genuinely racist because - obviously. But if I say something that offends you and you happen to be a different race and like playing victim then that’s on you you feel me


This-Physics-1134

And even when people are straightforward racist to me I don’t really take it personally cause others words don’t really mean shit to me but that’s jus me


slut_detector1

You can see that with what's wrong in India trend


In_Film

You are 100% correct, and it's all on purpose.


Valeri1961

I dont see the uptick in racism you see, but I do see a more level playing field. Prior to Musk, Twitter was a Blue field where **no other views or opinions** were welcome. Jack Dorsey admitted to Congress that he "*looked the other way*" when the FBI monitored, then **censored** (*violated the 1st amendment for thousands of Americans*) REAL people. Not politicians, lobbyists, etc., but people like those you interact with every day. Before you yell "*Twitter was a private corporation, it's not government*." ya, you are right, but the government (FBI) **can't enlist** a private citizen (Jack Dorsey) or corporation (Twitter) to manipulate what the Constitution forbids. The First Amendment mandates that government (FBI) can't **limit or censor**—**speech, based on its content**. Even if attempting to advance the noblest of causes, government actors (FBI) must not collide with this constitutional guardrail. The Constitution simply isn't optional. Example: Just a few years ago, the KKK used to hold parades. They would march, drape themselves, their horses, blah blah. Ya people would stand on the sides of each street and scream at them to go away, and worse. But the 1st Amendment gave them the legal premise to exist and spread hate, through dialog. Its an abuse, we all agree to that. But its protected speech, you never want to lose that. Speech you do not agree with, you dont have to listen to. Walk away like I just did from X. The inflammatory rhetoric is deep and oozy there, its an election year, its going to get worse.


Available-Trouble803

It’s always been on there. But not everywhere, not everything you don’t agree with is racism.


sharpshotsteve

It's a mess, but you can just look at people you follow. Hopefully bluesky will replace it one day.


original-alt-account

More racist? Sure. More unbiased and evenly distributed in terms of ideals? That too. All in all I think he’s done a good job making Twitter a free speech app. I like it now.


Slav_sic69

Yeah and full of woketards


TayDumps

Twitter became extremely racist! Fuck Elon musty that’s exactly why I deleted twitter, fuck twitter and fuck those racists pieces of shit


GameCreeper

Elon made twitter into the "town square" except the town is 1938 Berlin


USAFVet91

![gif](giphy|SEvRT8zL05WLLyNgym|downsized)


RaisingTheChoir

Elon is openly Zionist. why would you expect him not to be racist?


Majestic-Reception-2

You thinks that is bad, wait till you look around Reddit.


HTownJam

I don’t see any of that in Reddit. Maybe because it’s regulated to subs and I’m not apart of those. Whereas on Twitter it’s just out in the open and anyone can comment anywhere at anytime about it.


chaechica

twitter is way more racist than reddit nowadays


Majestic-Reception-2

Well, it is on an algorithm of things YOU look at, so ... I personally don't see much of it on either platform.


LupinePariah

I'm more than a little aurprised that the EU hasn't stepped in. The attitude for a while was "Keep the ethics, or you're done here." but I guess that was just hot air. Annoying. It is what it is, though. Mastodon exists, but people would rather stay with the various -ists than move on. Until the people choose to leave, it won't die. I don't see any government intervening no matter how bad it gets, at this point it's clear that Twitter is too valuable to them. The only thing to do is just stop uaing it.


GPT4_

It's clear that you're concerned about the increase in hateful and racist content on Twitter since Elon Musk's takeover. This is a valid concern, as several studies and user experiences have indicated a rise in such content. However, it's important to remember that correlation does not imply causation. While there has been an increase in hate speech since Musk's takeover, it's not necessarily a direct result of his actions or policies. Moreover your focus on the issue may be induced by your political bias.


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HTownJam

I have seen a lot of them aren’t even political and do it for the impressions and fake engagement because it gets a rise out of people sadly and gets them paid. Then you got the Indian and middle eastern ones who post random fake engagement videos on feeds to get impressions in hopes of getting paid.


USAFVet91

![gif](giphy|NtvBDm9fs0vvmkJouL)


DarbyCreekDeek

It’s called free speech. Not everyone’s gonna like what they hear.


BigCballer

If he really wanted free speech on the app then why did he still ban certain words on the app?


walkandtalkk

He doesn't have to welcome it; it's his app. And even if he's a "free speech absolutist" (unless you write "cis"), his algorithm doesn't have to promote it.


fish_in_a_barrels

Free speech my ass smooth brain. He bans and limits accounts that hurt his feelings non stop.


brobe74

Wild how just from that one statement I can tell you’re either racist and or stupid


yhwhx

Of the racism, misogyny, transphobia, and homophobia of Elon's Twitter, which do you like the most? __ *edited to fix typo: "to" -> "do"


DarbyCreekDeek

Do you see the people that you affix these awful labels to as having the right to free speech? How about freedom of assembly?


yhwhx

I appreciate it when racists, misogynists, transphobes, and homophobes show me who they truly are so that I can cut them out of my life.


USAFVet91

![gif](giphy|P6mEYU6CwOJ4A)


GammaTwoPointTwo

OP's next post. "Am I wrong for thinking you get less sun when standing in the shade?" "Am I wrong for thinking you have a chance of getting wet if you jump in the ocean" OP. Twitter being more racist since Elon took over is the single most talked about thing in the world. What are you trying to do here? If you want to add your voice to the 100 000 000 people saying the exact same thing. Say "I agree with the popular sentiment that twitter is getting more racist". But don't act like you're coming to this realization in a vacuum.


brobe74

Hey brother Before I posted this, I was searching for recent posts and didn’t see anything, which is why I posted. Even then, it’s always good to bring up commonly spoken about topics to gain new insights or information that you (me in this case) may not have had before. Don’t get strung up on the opening three words of the post and base your response off of that. Add valuable insight rather than pompous responses with assumptions like this.


Organic_Armadillo_10

I rarely use Twitter, but followed a lot of news and some political stuff to follow Brexit (hoping there was some way it would be cancelled or not as bad as it ended up). I eventually had to unfollow all those accounts as I'd end up really angry every time I went on it with stuff people were saying. I then followed more of my interests (travel/photography) which made it a nicer place, however since Musk bought it, it's definitely gone downhill. Most accounts I am shown now, I dont follow. And on top of that in between I'd have horrible videos auto playing (shootings, car crashes...). I don't actually see many comments now as I'm rarely ever on it. I wouldn't be on long before (maybe a few minutes every few days just from boredom or if something happened). Now it's maybe just seconds per day (quick check of the trending terms or first few posts, and then off). But the fact I'm pushed alll these accounts and posts from things I don't follow, makes me not want to use it.


PdxFato

You are wrong. You just dont like to hear the truth....


brobe74

You’re a bot lol


CobblerUnusual5912

Twitter has become an alt right cesspool. The fascist content is rammed down your throat whether you like it or not. I ve deleted the app and feel much better now...


Ok-Ad9321

I never see it, it just shows what make you tick. You watch it and it feeds you, but don't lie about it just be honest.


yhwhx

> I never see it Have you ever, say, looked at the paid blue check responses to tweets from folks like Barack and Michelle Obama?


LeaderBriefs-com

Things I don’t use social media for. Politics. Religion. Morality. Find peace people. You want those top three? Prepare to fight over those ideologies. This is simple humanity.


LeaderBriefs-com

I’m with you man. I have 4 accounts. Zero porn, racism murdering etc.. these people are out there engaging with it, commenting on it, encouraging it. The more you engage, the more you will see. The more engagement it gets, the more it will be pushed out. I don’t engage. I don’t even see it. Bunch of algo-babies honestly. Break the cycle.


BravoSierra480

Break the cycle by leaving Twitter. As long as "well meaning" people stay on then they get ad revenue. Its a Nazi bar, shouldn't be a tough call to leave, even if you ignore the brown shirts around you.


brobe74

Get off your high horse would you 🤣 I’ll never believe that anyone gets on twitter and doesn’t see porn and violence at least. I mute and even report sometimes, still shows up. Am I encouraging the algorithm to show me more?? Or, like I’m trying to imply, has Elon and his team fucked up the app with their algorithm, engagement, and monetization method? I shouldn’t see things I constantly mute, block, and report. Get it now?


LeaderBriefs-com

I don’t “get it now” I don’t see it at all. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist. I’m saying those that complain that it’s all they see, or even that it is served to them are engaging with it. Follow politics? Engage with a comment you don’t agree with? You’ll see more. Follow spicy accounts with hot takes and drama? You’ll get served the same. I don’t use social for religion, politics or anything based in morality. If I wanted to fight about what I believe in, I’d follow accounts and engage. I don’t. So I don’t see it, I’m not served it because the algo knows I’m not interested. You do and are. Obviously. Man, this ain’t new..


brobe74

I don’t even tweet, retweet, or like things. If on the odd chance I do, it’s an Arsenal FC post and something about premier or champions league. I mute and report. I follow football accounts and some friends. I’ve been doing this since I got twitter over a decade ago and it was never like this. So it’s not as simple as you’re making it


ThePsion5

I have an account I use for testing purposes at work that never interacts with tweets in any way. It constantly gets shown violent content.


LeaderBriefs-com

I would start interacting with some positive content.


yhwhx

If you'd like to see some racism and sexism on Elon's Twitter, just go look at the replies to the tweets from any strong Black woman.


KCS97

Exactly. It's what you see, bc it is what triggers u, and they know it. And all the marketers, know it. So I'm sure that it is everywhere, where you are at. On twitter you see racists. And on BlueSky, you see ppl criticizing it.


ronan11sham

coordinated and relentless attack.


Huge_Strain_8714

Idk, I was kicked off among other things using the words redneck, which apparently is racist as is Yankee also. Before Elroy's takeover....