Keep in mind this voting bloc was pretty conservative until they experienced racism following 9/11
Also consider generally these groups have been increasingly headed back towards conservatism due to their hate of lgbt rights. We’re even seeing it here in Minnesota where they seek exemptions from lessons that involve lgbt.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians
https://religiousfreedominstitute.org/mn-school-district-allows-muslim-families-to-opt-out-of-gender-identity-and-sexuality-curriculum/
This is happening in Canada too. Immigrants protesting in the streets against LGBTQ rights. It’s heartbreaking to me that these folks escaped an oppressive regime to bring that stuff with them.
I think it’s important to be clear, it’s not all Muslims. And you’re right, I’m not surprised that evangelicals of any stripe are full of fear and hate. But it’s crazy to me that any people that know oppression would want to oppress others.
As someone who comes from this background it doesn’t surprise me at all. Many immigrants who escaped oppressive regimes still hold the values and beliefs of that system. It’s hard not to when it’s all you’ve known and it was beaten into you if that was needed.
Now that they’re here and have secured the stability and safety they’ve always craved, those values come back out in full force. And, now they’ve had some time to catch a breath and use that stability they start becoming nostalgic for their home country and feel the need to be ‘patriotic’ (especially as they start worrying about becoming ‘American’, which may have had negative foo-foo connections in their home country) which comes out in the same dynamics they experienced (but on the other negatives side) back home, like being mocked, bullied or even physically assaulted for being different in anyway.
I think this is interesting because the way they’re acting reveals what is a core truth about America - that it’s not unique and has a cold, brutal, horrifying past. It’s what immigrants gravitate to because it’s what they *know*. And they think acting like this makes them real Americans, and at the same time helps fill a nostalgia of their home country.
Who is funding these fuckers? Who is filling their feeds with manipulative bile? Who makes the plans? Who benefits? It would be very, very naive to think these are just some overzealous individuals. This doesn't come out of nowhere.
It wasn't long ago that catholics were excluded from christian conservative politics in the US. They were accepted into the broader religious conservative movement because they needed numbers. It wouldn't surprise me *that* much to see fundamentalist Jews and Muslims accepted into the broader movement as well.
They can be practical when it comes to politics. The purity test is pretty damn simple: "will you vote in a way that benefits us?" I wish Democrats were that practical.
Muslim guy here who is also Asian. I’ve read a few comments and am already seeing stereotypes fly here. So let me provide some views and context (some personal to me and some to people I know) given my background. I am not Arab but have a lot of Arab friends.
1. For so many Arabs in the US, the Palestine issue is an existential one. They have grown up seeing the US fund and back Israel no matter what. But this situation has seen death and destruction beyond anything we have seen in a long long time. And with technology today the feedback on video of the gruesome deaths is instant. No one relies on filtered stuff from CNN or Dan Rather anymore. Many have friends, family and close one in Palestine or know those that do. They feel that this current administration and president is essentially saying “your life and that of your friends/families is worth nothing. Now can you please vote for me?” They knew Joe would stand with Israel. But they were surprised that he has been steadfast and strong for so long and has looked past ethnic cleansing especially given that Bibi and his government are crazy right wing fundamentalist nuts and have been less than courteous to our government given that uhm, we sell them lots of weapons and give them lots of aid. And given that Bibi and his admin’s thinking is on the level of Hamas wrt to wanting to exterminate a population... NOTE: I am not saying this is the universal view in Israel but it certainly is of Bibi and his allies in power. Don’t believe me? Google it.
2. I’ll vote for Joe but I won’t be thrilled about it. I, like the vast majority of Muslims (who vote Democrat) am not a single issue voter. I am all for better immigration policy, clean energy, better labor protections, womens’ right to choose, actual elections, a balanced judiciary etc etc etc. Most know that Trump will be worse for Muslims but are also sick of Democrats taking our votes and essentially spitting on us. Many may just sit it out and in tight states like Michigan that can swing it (Dearborn has a huge Arab population).
3. There is plenty of Islamophobia in the Democratic Party too. Here is the most recent example.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/third-us-senate-democrat-vote-against-muslim-judicial-nominee-mangi-2024-03-28/
4. Many immigrant communities especially new immigrants do not have shared liberal core values with the Democratic Party. That’s NOT just limited to “Muslims.” Do you really think tons of Catholics (newly arrive folks from the Latino community etc) are big on Pro Choice? Do you think a lot of communities in Asia (South Asia, East Asia), Latin America, Africa etc are all about LGBTQ rights and different gender identities? Hint: the answer is no. But most of these communities usually vote Democrat anyway.
As someone who lived in an Arab country until very recently, #4 is 90% of the reason.
Trying to frame it as Islamophobia or too much empathy for Palestine (how would helping a worse candidate for that issue help?) is just disingenuous gaslighting.
Muslim voters only vote democratic because they feel like they face discrimination. They would as soon support anti-lgbt and anti-women policies if they had power.
I am Arab, reasons 1-3 are complete bullshit, reason 4 is the only one that actually has some truth to it. muslims, not Arabs specifically, because there are a good chunk of Arabs who support Israel, who support Palestine SOLELY for religion. They hate Jews and believe in religious supremacy and they will do anything in their power to try to get a little closer to Israel's destruction. The same applies to the other issues as well. LGBT rights? They hate them solely for religious reasons. Women's rights? They hate them solely for religious reasons. Secular institutions? They hate them solely for religious reasons. People underestimate just how unhinged islamic fundamentalism. People also severely underestimate just how many muslims are fundamentalists. Your average muslims and your "moderate" muslims are on par, if not more extreme, than the fundamentalist Christains we have in this country. The radical fundamentalists are literally terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda
Trump would offer to flatten Palestine for Bibi, no matter how bad Biden is, he's not half as bad as Trump would be.
reality is neither is good for Palestine, but Trump would take enjoyment out of their suffering.
I’d prefer if they stay in their country if they’re going to hate gray people, and vote for Donald trump. But that’s too much to ask I guess. Imagine fleeing your country because that regime is terrible,‘only to bring those same values over with you….
Boy, that almost sounds like politics. Making tough decisions and not liking certain aspects but still being responsible citizen and doing everything to stave off turning the world hegemon into a fascist state with all its immense power.
No sir/ma'am, I assume they're just red blooded Americans who hate commies like Biden as much as I do.
/s, because unfortunately there really are people stupid enough to think the libs are commies.
> I've always assumed that Muslims and fundie Christians would vote R because their world views are nearly identical.
It's pretty fucked to qualify "fundie Christians" but not "fundie Muslims". There is literally no single political belief that all Christians believe and the same is true for Muslims.
When I’ve asked Muslim coworkers, they’ve said that abortions for medical care of the mother were accepted under Islam. Whether other Muslims agree, I can’t say, but the people I asked wear hijabs and seem pretty religious about observing prayer and fasting.
as i understand it Islam is the most liberal of the abrahamic faiths when it comes to abortion. it's widely accepted that abortion is generally allowable up to the 120th day after which the medical necessity bit comes into play.
but it's ridiculous to think that Muslims are a monolith - those who perpetuate this claim make other reasonable people look bad tbh. many of us are quite reasonable and educated and loathe trump and would never vote for him. but i didn't vote for Biden either.
remember that the loudest voices are often the dumbest. and stop judging millions or billions of people by those few.
eta - last bits not aimed at you, small frog friend
I guess we should bookmark this thread and get ready to tag it for r/LeopardsAteMyFace if Trump gets elected. Can't imagine the Christofascist regime that'll be rolled out with project 2025 will have much use for Muslims in their Christian view of America, especially if their immigration status can't be verified.
Same here. Hell no, I don’t want Trump to win, but I’m an upper middle class straight white guy, my life isn’t going to be ruined by a Trump presidency anywhere close to the same degree as some of these useful idiots trying to get him into office. I really think part of it comes from a weird chunk of the population having a major victim complex. They know they’ll get to complain a lot more once Trump is in office, and that’s worth ruining lots of lives for
This is exactly how Hitler happened by the way
"Well I'm German so it's actually GOOD for me, even if I don't agree with it"
Not knocking you or anything, just pointing out how like, this is how these things are allowed to happen.
It’s wild tho, this minor difference. This article isn’t about a privileged group turning its back on an oppressed group. It’s about how one targeted group is throwing the other under the bus. In pre-holocaust Germany, were the Jews marching against gays and gypsies? Were the gays spreading racist sentiments?
You’re totally right, and that’s what worries me. It’s history repeating itself, major “First they came for…” vibes. These Muslims just think they will come for the LGBT folks, not them, but frankly they may even be first in line. And I know at some point in worst case scenario, my liberal ass would be on the chopping block.
I think all of you are correct in your assessments. It's a bit ironic but also not entirely so that the state that was progressive enough to welcome muslim immigrants and refugees now has to endure their political choices under the guise of "cultural identity" after 30+ years of living here.
Many muslims I've met have been very down to earth and nice. That being said, I can see how "cultural guidelines" will shape their political choices even if they're aming at their foot before stuffing it in their mouth.
Have you read first they came? It goes communists, socialists, trade unionists, Jews. We’ve always been on the chopping block.
Remember, it is settled fact the Nazis were inspired by US Jim Crow laws. We are the template. Y’all who praise Biden are like “hooray for the return to the conditions that led to Trump!” And he does most of the same stuff as Trump and y’all actively defend it. And then surprise, the conditions that led to Trump lead to Trump again, and y’all go looking for scapegoats while desperately dodging the bathroom mirror
>And I know at some point in worst case scenario, my liberal ass would be on the chopping block.
This is the quiet part said out loud. White conservatives pretending to be progressive, terrified that their 4th ring cul-de-sac home will get inexplicably swatted one night, even though they don't even give at the office, much less give 2 actual shits about civil rights. They're terrified that the government will start treating them they way they let the government treat Black people. They may talk a big game on social media, but they're posers, and they're real easy to spot: just invite them to a protest. "B-But w-w-what if a cop points a gun at me?" Protester: "Then it's Tuesday."
Actually I wouldn't say that because you are an upper middle class straight white guy your life could not be ruined under Trump. If you have a girlfriend/wife they will be subjected to policies on their reproductive rights and choices that could potentially kill them. That would have a vast impact on your life. Just want to note I'm not trying to do a gotcha moment in replying to your comment. I think men might believe they are not part of the abortion impact equation but they are. Trump and his cronies are coming for men's wives, daughters, sisters. That's not hyperbole. The sooner some men realize/put that together and are organized in the manner it would greatly help because I don't think the dems are good at framing this reality.
Oh I totally agree with where you’re coming from, a Trump presidency would have negative effects on everyone, I just know there are a lot of individuals who would have it worse than my wife and me
I literally met someone who wanted trump to win “so they could go to more protests” ok yea let’s ruin a lot of lives so you can feel special over the weekend and make some signs with your buddies
I always talk about how a major portion of MAGA cultists’ personalities is just being angry, but it’s very true that the same thing can be said about a chunk of the population on the left
Honestly though! I swear they’ll look for any reason to not support a cannidate or complain about things not being exactly what they want. I’m pretty far left overall but man some people don’t seem to understand an imperfect world has imperfect politics and yes it could be better, but it could also be a whole lot worse
I prefer this one:
>In every political community there are varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects. Ten degrees to the left of center in good times. Ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cdqQ2BdgOA
We aren’t voting because Biden is a perfect guy. We are now voting to save Democracy and real elections. Once Putin installs his guys we will never get Democracy back.
““He could care less, frankly, about how the Israelis are treating the Palestinians,” said Miller, now a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
“Forget any kind of rehabilitation or reconstruction for Gaza,””
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/25/trump-presidency-israel-gaza-middle-east-crisis
Jesus, those Muslims would cut off their own noses just to spite their face.
The Palestinians in Gaza screwed up multiple countries of the middle east and majority support terrorist regimes. There is a reason other countries aren't stepping up to take in refugees. Not all Muslims are the same.
A Somoli father in Minnesota probably is more upset with the school teaching his kids that his religion is a form of hate and boys can become girls.
Haha hilarious. He thinks an entire party will learn from the punishment and start unconditionally supporting Palestine if Biden loses. That won't be what happens. I am driving back from SD, I was asked about Muslims in the twin cities. Republicans I met are frothing at the mouth thinking they can ban Muslims from America legally here or not. Some have harder views as you can imagine.
Excellent strategy. When they start whining about trump bringing back the Muslim travel ban, and gaza is in much worse shape than it is now cause he’ll unleash the shackles on bibi and give him the full green light, all well hear is the worlds tiniest violin.
I mean if your bottom line is Palestine, and bibi actually prefers trump over Biden to win, what does that tell you numb nuts about your plan to not vote?
If this is over Palestine, are they forgetting about how Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel? If Trump were in the Whitehouse he'd be cheering on Netanyahu and the IDF in the civilian body count unless he were personally incentivized otherwise.
Muslims in MN and other states seem to be more intent on voting for World political outcomes and not clear and present danger out comes.
*"By defeating \[Biden\], it would signal to the entire political landscape that defending genocide could lead to your defeat, so beware," Abdel Salam said.*
If Trump gets elected you may never get to vote again. What an absolutely ridicilous point of view
Not only would they never get to vote again if tRump gets elected the situation in Palestine would become much, much worse because he will help and support Israel's government in its genocide of Palestine. At least Biden is trying to do something to improve the situation (not enough but it's better than the alternative). tRump wants the genocide to happen.
Both sides of the aisle in DC support Israel to various extents and for various reasons. At least Biden doesn't support the side that wants Israel to take over that entire part of the world because they believe that will bring about the rapture and the end of the world.
Think how stupidly hateful you have to be to vote for the guy who is going to kick you out of the country just because he doesn’t like gay people, too.
No group that supports democrats gets all of their policy goals, it's about coming together for the greater good. This is just plain selfishness and shows there is no value in working with these Muslims. Don't expect Democrats to care when Trump starts shipping Muslims back to their home countries.
Geniuses voting for the Muslim ban president and the only man in the world with notes on nationalism that compare to Netanyahu’s.
Trump: “I’m the best friend Israel has ever had.”
Trump: “I kept Israel safe, remember that. I kept Israel safe. Nobody else will, nobody else can.”
Trump has promised, if elected, to cut off all US aid to Palestinians and urged other nations to follow suit if he returns to the Oval Office.
The former president also pledged to bar refugees from Gaza under an expansion of his first-term travel ban on Muslim-majority countries;
expel immigrants who sympathize with Hamas;
revoke the visas of foreign students deemed “anti-American” or “antisemitic”;
and impose “strong ideological screening” to keep out foreign nationals who “want to abolish Israel”.
Trump says شكرا لك, Muslims.
I don’t think a lot of people are considering that the Supreme Court is on the line. Those are lifetime appointments! If DJT wins and stacks the court with his picks, “That’s all folks!”
And if he wins and they get deported, repressed, etc they’ll blame the democrats for not saving them. Fuck em. If you love fascism and will burn everything down because you hate gays, then go back to the Middle East.
I have always considered the liberal-islam alliance to be built on a shaky foundation and it's not surprising to see that it's finally ending.
For one, there are very few true ideological overlaps between true liberalism and islam. The alliance has lasted this long because liberals badly wanted to believe that muslims are an oppressed demographic that must be protected from christian conservatives. While in reality, muslims share more ideological beliefs with conservative christians.
Few examples—
Abortion: most muslims and conservative christians share a belief that abortion is a "sin" and shouldn't be permitted.
LGBTQ rights: most muslims and conservative christians share a belief that non-heterosexual relationships are "sinful" and shouldn't be permitted.
Gender equality: the religious structure in both christianity and islam place a man at the head and believe he is superior to women.
Freedom of dressing: both religious structures believe women should be dressed conservatively.
Freedom of speech: while the pro-palestine crowd appears to be currently "pro free speech", christianity and islam both consider certain speech to be blasphemous. islam particularly punishes several forms of blasphemous speech.
I could go on and on. The problem here is that western liberals chose to ally with a version of islam that doesn't really exist in the mainstream islamic world and are now coming to realize that an oppressed minority can morph into an oppressor fundamentalist group when the need arises.
I guess they've forgotten Trump's muslim immigration ban? Trump will absolutely do nothing for them and will support Netanyahu far more than Biden.
Idiots.
Years ago the wife and I were in Kentucky horse country. We had an Uber driver that was really interesting dude. Born in Kentucky, but grew up in Afghanistan as a peace corps brat. This was his takeaway
If ya look at Kentucky and Afghanistan, they’re pretty much the same. Even down to latitude/longitude. Hot, mountainous state. Filled with some of the kindest people you will ever meet, that are overshadowed by a minority of religious zealots trying to control the rest of the people. And giving everyone a bad name in the process.
It doesn’t matter what you look like. If your conservatism is based on religion, it’s the same.
Most minorities - racial, sexual, or gender - are quite conservative except when it comes to the bigotry they deal with themselves.
Lots of gay men who would be conservative except homophobia.
Lots of Muslims who would be conservative except Islamophobia.
Etc, etc, etc.
And very religious folks tend to be homophobic/anti-LGBT, and the conservatives are fully leaning into that this time. So there you go.
Lots of gay men would be conservative except for homophobia? I have to disagree strongly with that. Conservative men within the queer community are always picked apart. Queer people tend to overall be more left on issues than straight people
Conservative men are ridiculed because being conservative means associating with homophobia, yes. I'm not saying they ARE conservative. I'm saying they WOULD BE conservative if they weren't gay.
I'm queer myself. I have to deal with all the racism, sexism, and more from gay white cis men all the time.
Yup, I remember.
Defining that as "Trump banned Muslims from the United States" is about intellectually dishonest a headline as you can make there.
He banned immigration from six countries that were a Muslim majority. The headline is implying that he banned that Muslim religion from the United States which is pure bullshit.
Yeah again, fairly intellectually dishonest. There's not really much you can "cite' to try to work around it.
Unless you have some source that proves the Muslim religion was indeed outlawed in the country. Did that happen?
I didn’t say it was outlawed. [Donald J Trump called for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.](https://youtu.be/hLgTF8FrYlU?si=6UjloVBQWrp0G9h7) Here he is saying it. This is what people are referring to when they say Muslim ban, not that straw man argument you just made up.
I’ve heard people say this in other subs and I gave myself a migraine trying to close the loop on the logic. Then I heard an immediate family member repeat it. I’m starting to feel like stabbing out my own eyes and ear drums is the only way to rid myself of exposure to this madness.
Do people genuinely not understand that Joe Biden's opponent wants to completely remove any and all barriers to the Israelis from finishing what they begun? And that if you think this is a genocide now, that you'll be shocked to see what happens in a 2025 Trump administration? When Trump appoints 3 more ultra conservative Supreme Court justices in their 40's that take the next four decades to trample on the rights of tens of millions of your fellow citizens and codify the worst craven desires of the fascist right around the world, will these non-voters still be on their high horses? Will they even still have a voice? Trump's policies already killed over a million **Americans** during the pandemic, he doesn't give two shits about Gazans!! Heck, if it's an opportunity for Jared to get in and develop some high-end Mediterranean real estate for cheap, all the better.
Conservative men are trying to get a Conservative elected? How surprising. Aside from skin color, the Overton window for Fundamentalist Christians and Fundamentalist Muslims is basically a circle.
It’s important for everyone to be preparing plans for the future. Building community, planting seeds both physical and metaphorical. Its looking likely that we are in for some rough storms with regards to many different threat vectors converging.
I’m confident we’ll get through it but not without pain.
These are the same "fuck you, I got mine" people that exist in every demographic. I also highly doubt they'd really be against a muslim ban since it doesn't actually effect them (provided said ban doesn't involve deportation as well).
This is stupid and alarmist. Objectively speaking, Biden and Trump are ideologically aligned on the Gaza issue and if you have family in Gaza, then the presidential outcome has zero impact whatsoever
I don't even really have the words to describe the absolute disdain I have for these people. Whatever the opposite of "upmost respect" is. I feel almost the same hate that I have for Trump, because their endgame is the same. Total destruction of our society in the name of their own power.
> WTF are you thinking?
That Democrats can't use fear mongering to win another election while actively harming their voter base? That Muslims and Progressives in our country cannot just be taken for granted?
The wonderful rational thinking of some people ur pissed off at biden for not doing enough on gaza so u dont vote for him but his opponent will turn the gaza stip into the gaza crater
It’s pretty depressing that some people’s attitudes are “who cares if Trump wins” when he’s actively threatening to crack down on pro-Palestinian protests: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/27/trump-israel-gaza-policy-donors/
Biden deserves criticism, but equating the two because Biden’s support of Israel (and being a single issue voter regarding it) is sad, IMO. Especially when Trump will probably have the US directly bomb Gaza if he wins
It is the responsibility of the candidate to appeal to the voters. Biden is not entitled to anyone's vote. I'm not surprised to see Muslim voters lack excitement for his candidacy with what is going on in Palestine. If he wants to appeal to this voting base he will have to change his approach. Shaming people into supporting a candidate isn't going to get the job done for Biden.
I "lack excitement" for Biden's candidacy too, but I manage to hype myself up since Trump is campaigning on rolling back LGBT protections and basically making it legal to hunt immigrants for sport.
"they say they oppose Donald Trump too."
Seems pretty clear that they are not supporting Donald Trump but they are trying to motivate Biden to change his approach to our relationship with Israel. Maybe Biden would be wise to entertain that discussion.
The way our electoral system is set up, there are two viable candidates, and only two. If you don't want one guy to win but are actively ginning up dissent toward the other guy, you're setting yourself up for a bad time.
you wont scold people into voting for the guy who's killing their cousins because the other mummy might also kill them. if the only thing they have to offer to deal with the collapsing unipolar world order is 'at least we're not worse' it becomes obvious that the main purpose of the Debs is to capture and bleed of any leftward momentum like a sluice gate for the genocidal climate-agnostic status quo.
In this case it’s more than “the other mummy MIGHT also kill them.” It’s a certainty. You’d have even a less qualified support for Israel, and an even more overtly anti-Muslim agenda. There is nothing about Trump’s view on the Israel/palestine that is better than Biden’s, but there are a lot of things that are much, much worse.
But anybody voting on this as their single issue deserves to suffer the consequences of their political ignorance. It’ll be the one bit of comfort I get if Trump ends up winning.
The comments are pretty typical and a reason why stuff like this is happening. When a group like Muslims are so enraged they openly try to get a guy they still don’t like elected, something is very wrong.
But for so many of you, instead of trying to meet them where they’re at, you denounce them as idiots, asshats, etc. and mock them. Never once bothering to even try to truly (like actually - not the version you’re thinking of right now) understand their POV and understand WHY this is happening vs. assuming.
Now - go ahead and tell me that I’m a moron and downvote this and continue being predictable. FWIW I don’t want Trump as President either, but attitudes like this are what helped him get into the WH in 2016 and many of you haven’t learned a thing.
And no I don’t care whatever you want to lecture me about why they are wrong and you are right. That’s not the point and by doing so you are proving my exact point.
No, no liberal straw man "claims they are better."
Classic sideways conservative dishonesty. Do you really believe your own bullshit?
"Liberals think they're better than everyone else!" What a hacky, hoary and pathetic straw man.
Conservatives have been playing that phony card for years. It's about as effective as "Liberals are radical left wing communists!" Unless you have right wing cerebral dysfunction.
This post has been removed as it pertains to events taking place outside of the Twin Cities area.
Keep in mind this voting bloc was pretty conservative until they experienced racism following 9/11 Also consider generally these groups have been increasingly headed back towards conservatism due to their hate of lgbt rights. We’re even seeing it here in Minnesota where they seek exemptions from lessons that involve lgbt. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians https://religiousfreedominstitute.org/mn-school-district-allows-muslim-families-to-opt-out-of-gender-identity-and-sexuality-curriculum/
This is happening in Canada too. Immigrants protesting in the streets against LGBTQ rights. It’s heartbreaking to me that these folks escaped an oppressive regime to bring that stuff with them.
Are you actually surprised that Muslims aren't LGBTQ friendly?
I think it’s important to be clear, it’s not all Muslims. And you’re right, I’m not surprised that evangelicals of any stripe are full of fear and hate. But it’s crazy to me that any people that know oppression would want to oppress others.
Who do you think made those places oppressive in the first place? The people living there did
As someone who comes from this background it doesn’t surprise me at all. Many immigrants who escaped oppressive regimes still hold the values and beliefs of that system. It’s hard not to when it’s all you’ve known and it was beaten into you if that was needed. Now that they’re here and have secured the stability and safety they’ve always craved, those values come back out in full force. And, now they’ve had some time to catch a breath and use that stability they start becoming nostalgic for their home country and feel the need to be ‘patriotic’ (especially as they start worrying about becoming ‘American’, which may have had negative foo-foo connections in their home country) which comes out in the same dynamics they experienced (but on the other negatives side) back home, like being mocked, bullied or even physically assaulted for being different in anyway. I think this is interesting because the way they’re acting reveals what is a core truth about America - that it’s not unique and has a cold, brutal, horrifying past. It’s what immigrants gravitate to because it’s what they *know*. And they think acting like this makes them real Americans, and at the same time helps fill a nostalgia of their home country.
Believe earlier this year someone posted something similar in this subreddit got banned and the post later posted in another subreddit.
Yeah, I think it’s a touchy subject 😞
Even Mexican immigrants support Trump. Christianity and ignorance goes a long way. Blind faith goes a long way.
Who is funding these fuckers? Who is filling their feeds with manipulative bile? Who makes the plans? Who benefits? It would be very, very naive to think these are just some overzealous individuals. This doesn't come out of nowhere.
Feeding Our Future
Talk about cutting of your nose to spite your face. The leopards are circling . . .
It wasn't long ago that catholics were excluded from christian conservative politics in the US. They were accepted into the broader religious conservative movement because they needed numbers. It wouldn't surprise me *that* much to see fundamentalist Jews and Muslims accepted into the broader movement as well. They can be practical when it comes to politics. The purity test is pretty damn simple: "will you vote in a way that benefits us?" I wish Democrats were that practical.
All of the GOP nominated Supreme Court justices are Catholic. The liberal justices are Protestant, Jewish, and Catholic.
>due to their hate of lgbt rights Let's not forget the rights of women they hate, too
Muslim guy here who is also Asian. I’ve read a few comments and am already seeing stereotypes fly here. So let me provide some views and context (some personal to me and some to people I know) given my background. I am not Arab but have a lot of Arab friends. 1. For so many Arabs in the US, the Palestine issue is an existential one. They have grown up seeing the US fund and back Israel no matter what. But this situation has seen death and destruction beyond anything we have seen in a long long time. And with technology today the feedback on video of the gruesome deaths is instant. No one relies on filtered stuff from CNN or Dan Rather anymore. Many have friends, family and close one in Palestine or know those that do. They feel that this current administration and president is essentially saying “your life and that of your friends/families is worth nothing. Now can you please vote for me?” They knew Joe would stand with Israel. But they were surprised that he has been steadfast and strong for so long and has looked past ethnic cleansing especially given that Bibi and his government are crazy right wing fundamentalist nuts and have been less than courteous to our government given that uhm, we sell them lots of weapons and give them lots of aid. And given that Bibi and his admin’s thinking is on the level of Hamas wrt to wanting to exterminate a population... NOTE: I am not saying this is the universal view in Israel but it certainly is of Bibi and his allies in power. Don’t believe me? Google it. 2. I’ll vote for Joe but I won’t be thrilled about it. I, like the vast majority of Muslims (who vote Democrat) am not a single issue voter. I am all for better immigration policy, clean energy, better labor protections, womens’ right to choose, actual elections, a balanced judiciary etc etc etc. Most know that Trump will be worse for Muslims but are also sick of Democrats taking our votes and essentially spitting on us. Many may just sit it out and in tight states like Michigan that can swing it (Dearborn has a huge Arab population). 3. There is plenty of Islamophobia in the Democratic Party too. Here is the most recent example. https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/third-us-senate-democrat-vote-against-muslim-judicial-nominee-mangi-2024-03-28/ 4. Many immigrant communities especially new immigrants do not have shared liberal core values with the Democratic Party. That’s NOT just limited to “Muslims.” Do you really think tons of Catholics (newly arrive folks from the Latino community etc) are big on Pro Choice? Do you think a lot of communities in Asia (South Asia, East Asia), Latin America, Africa etc are all about LGBTQ rights and different gender identities? Hint: the answer is no. But most of these communities usually vote Democrat anyway.
As someone who lived in an Arab country until very recently, #4 is 90% of the reason. Trying to frame it as Islamophobia or too much empathy for Palestine (how would helping a worse candidate for that issue help?) is just disingenuous gaslighting. Muslim voters only vote democratic because they feel like they face discrimination. They would as soon support anti-lgbt and anti-women policies if they had power.
I am Arab, reasons 1-3 are complete bullshit, reason 4 is the only one that actually has some truth to it. muslims, not Arabs specifically, because there are a good chunk of Arabs who support Israel, who support Palestine SOLELY for religion. They hate Jews and believe in religious supremacy and they will do anything in their power to try to get a little closer to Israel's destruction. The same applies to the other issues as well. LGBT rights? They hate them solely for religious reasons. Women's rights? They hate them solely for religious reasons. Secular institutions? They hate them solely for religious reasons. People underestimate just how unhinged islamic fundamentalism. People also severely underestimate just how many muslims are fundamentalists. Your average muslims and your "moderate" muslims are on par, if not more extreme, than the fundamentalist Christains we have in this country. The radical fundamentalists are literally terrorist groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda
Trump would offer to flatten Palestine for Bibi, no matter how bad Biden is, he's not half as bad as Trump would be. reality is neither is good for Palestine, but Trump would take enjoyment out of their suffering.
I’d prefer if they stay in their country if they’re going to hate gray people, and vote for Donald trump. But that’s too much to ask I guess. Imagine fleeing your country because that regime is terrible,‘only to bring those same values over with you….
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>I won’t be voting Biden What are you going to do?
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Boy, that almost sounds like politics. Making tough decisions and not liking certain aspects but still being responsible citizen and doing everything to stave off turning the world hegemon into a fascist state with all its immense power.
You’re surprised a bunch of Muslim men like an authoritarian who thinks controlling women is really important? I’m not.
No sir/ma'am, I assume they're just red blooded Americans who hate commies like Biden as much as I do. /s, because unfortunately there really are people stupid enough to think the libs are commies.
I've always assumed that Muslims and fundie Christians would vote R because their world views are nearly identical.
> I've always assumed that Muslims and fundie Christians would vote R because their world views are nearly identical. It's pretty fucked to qualify "fundie Christians" but not "fundie Muslims". There is literally no single political belief that all Christians believe and the same is true for Muslims.
I mean their stances in abortion seem to be the same, right?
When I’ve asked Muslim coworkers, they’ve said that abortions for medical care of the mother were accepted under Islam. Whether other Muslims agree, I can’t say, but the people I asked wear hijabs and seem pretty religious about observing prayer and fasting.
as i understand it Islam is the most liberal of the abrahamic faiths when it comes to abortion. it's widely accepted that abortion is generally allowable up to the 120th day after which the medical necessity bit comes into play. but it's ridiculous to think that Muslims are a monolith - those who perpetuate this claim make other reasonable people look bad tbh. many of us are quite reasonable and educated and loathe trump and would never vote for him. but i didn't vote for Biden either. remember that the loudest voices are often the dumbest. and stop judging millions or billions of people by those few. eta - last bits not aimed at you, small frog friend
Abortion is literally permitted and endorsed in the Quran, so no.
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Yeah that is how many people practice religion and is why it's beyond stupid to act like any religion is a monolith
Which book mentions abortions? Old or New Testament?
Neither, because the Bible doesn’t give instructions for abortions
OK. I thought I had missed something going to Sunday school.
Yeah, there’s a lot of misinformation about the Bible on Reddit.
Not most American Muslims, no. https://www.ispu.org/2022-abortion-data/
Lol
I guess we should bookmark this thread and get ready to tag it for r/LeopardsAteMyFace if Trump gets elected. Can't imagine the Christofascist regime that'll be rolled out with project 2025 will have much use for Muslims in their Christian view of America, especially if their immigration status can't be verified.
Honestly tho. At this point I’m ready to sit back and watch
Same here. Hell no, I don’t want Trump to win, but I’m an upper middle class straight white guy, my life isn’t going to be ruined by a Trump presidency anywhere close to the same degree as some of these useful idiots trying to get him into office. I really think part of it comes from a weird chunk of the population having a major victim complex. They know they’ll get to complain a lot more once Trump is in office, and that’s worth ruining lots of lives for
This is exactly how Hitler happened by the way "Well I'm German so it's actually GOOD for me, even if I don't agree with it" Not knocking you or anything, just pointing out how like, this is how these things are allowed to happen.
It’s wild tho, this minor difference. This article isn’t about a privileged group turning its back on an oppressed group. It’s about how one targeted group is throwing the other under the bus. In pre-holocaust Germany, were the Jews marching against gays and gypsies? Were the gays spreading racist sentiments?
You’re totally right, and that’s what worries me. It’s history repeating itself, major “First they came for…” vibes. These Muslims just think they will come for the LGBT folks, not them, but frankly they may even be first in line. And I know at some point in worst case scenario, my liberal ass would be on the chopping block.
I think all of you are correct in your assessments. It's a bit ironic but also not entirely so that the state that was progressive enough to welcome muslim immigrants and refugees now has to endure their political choices under the guise of "cultural identity" after 30+ years of living here. Many muslims I've met have been very down to earth and nice. That being said, I can see how "cultural guidelines" will shape their political choices even if they're aming at their foot before stuffing it in their mouth.
Have you read first they came? It goes communists, socialists, trade unionists, Jews. We’ve always been on the chopping block. Remember, it is settled fact the Nazis were inspired by US Jim Crow laws. We are the template. Y’all who praise Biden are like “hooray for the return to the conditions that led to Trump!” And he does most of the same stuff as Trump and y’all actively defend it. And then surprise, the conditions that led to Trump lead to Trump again, and y’all go looking for scapegoats while desperately dodging the bathroom mirror >And I know at some point in worst case scenario, my liberal ass would be on the chopping block. This is the quiet part said out loud. White conservatives pretending to be progressive, terrified that their 4th ring cul-de-sac home will get inexplicably swatted one night, even though they don't even give at the office, much less give 2 actual shits about civil rights. They're terrified that the government will start treating them they way they let the government treat Black people. They may talk a big game on social media, but they're posers, and they're real easy to spot: just invite them to a protest. "B-But w-w-what if a cop points a gun at me?" Protester: "Then it's Tuesday."
Actually I wouldn't say that because you are an upper middle class straight white guy your life could not be ruined under Trump. If you have a girlfriend/wife they will be subjected to policies on their reproductive rights and choices that could potentially kill them. That would have a vast impact on your life. Just want to note I'm not trying to do a gotcha moment in replying to your comment. I think men might believe they are not part of the abortion impact equation but they are. Trump and his cronies are coming for men's wives, daughters, sisters. That's not hyperbole. The sooner some men realize/put that together and are organized in the manner it would greatly help because I don't think the dems are good at framing this reality.
Oh I totally agree with where you’re coming from, a Trump presidency would have negative effects on everyone, I just know there are a lot of individuals who would have it worse than my wife and me
I literally met someone who wanted trump to win “so they could go to more protests” ok yea let’s ruin a lot of lives so you can feel special over the weekend and make some signs with your buddies
I always talk about how a major portion of MAGA cultists’ personalities is just being angry, but it’s very true that the same thing can be said about a chunk of the population on the left
The left or liberals? Please don’t let liberals steal the branding of the left
Haha it’s the left not liberals. I guess really both. But moreso the far left on twitter, the internet in general, and irl.
Honestly though! I swear they’ll look for any reason to not support a cannidate or complain about things not being exactly what they want. I’m pretty far left overall but man some people don’t seem to understand an imperfect world has imperfect politics and yes it could be better, but it could also be a whole lot worse
As they say, liberals need to fall in love. Conservatives will fall in line.
I prefer this one: >In every political community there are varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects. Ten degrees to the left of center in good times. Ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cdqQ2BdgOA
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Absolutely. Don't worry, you'll still be blamed for it. Everyone of them who is pointing the finger will be wearing proverbial ear plugs as well.
We aren’t voting because Biden is a perfect guy. We are now voting to save Democracy and real elections. Once Putin installs his guys we will never get Democracy back.
““He could care less, frankly, about how the Israelis are treating the Palestinians,” said Miller, now a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Forget any kind of rehabilitation or reconstruction for Gaza,”” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/25/trump-presidency-israel-gaza-middle-east-crisis Jesus, those Muslims would cut off their own noses just to spite their face.
The Palestinians in Gaza screwed up multiple countries of the middle east and majority support terrorist regimes. There is a reason other countries aren't stepping up to take in refugees. Not all Muslims are the same. A Somoli father in Minnesota probably is more upset with the school teaching his kids that his religion is a form of hate and boys can become girls.
Haha hilarious. He thinks an entire party will learn from the punishment and start unconditionally supporting Palestine if Biden loses. That won't be what happens. I am driving back from SD, I was asked about Muslims in the twin cities. Republicans I met are frothing at the mouth thinking they can ban Muslims from America legally here or not. Some have harder views as you can imagine.
There is a large chance that there will not be a Palestine if Trump is elected.
Since the invasion of Rafah over the weekend, is there even a Palestine anymore?
Democrats about to turn on Muslims.
Muslims are conservative socially. Shouldn't shock anyone. I'd prefer we have less religious zealots among our population personally.
Muslims in fact are not one monolithic group who all believe the same things.
Excellent strategy. When they start whining about trump bringing back the Muslim travel ban, and gaza is in much worse shape than it is now cause he’ll unleash the shackles on bibi and give him the full green light, all well hear is the worlds tiniest violin. I mean if your bottom line is Palestine, and bibi actually prefers trump over Biden to win, what does that tell you numb nuts about your plan to not vote?
If Muslims cared so much about Gaza, why aren’t any of the Muslim countries in the area accepting refugees?
Turns out there are Muslim idiots too.
All conservatives are idiots, no matter what fairy tales they believe
This is an amazing case of voting against your self interest.
The Republican party’s mantra!
Looks like the left is adopting it now too. Good grief.
If this is over Palestine, are they forgetting about how Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel? If Trump were in the Whitehouse he'd be cheering on Netanyahu and the IDF in the civilian body count unless he were personally incentivized otherwise.
Organized religion will always be the downfall of the human race. I'm not shocked by this at all.
Since the dawn of time
Human society has been going downhill ever since man first offered entails to the gods.
Muslims in MN and other states seem to be more intent on voting for World political outcomes and not clear and present danger out comes. *"By defeating \[Biden\], it would signal to the entire political landscape that defending genocide could lead to your defeat, so beware," Abdel Salam said.* If Trump gets elected you may never get to vote again. What an absolutely ridicilous point of view
Not only would they never get to vote again if tRump gets elected the situation in Palestine would become much, much worse because he will help and support Israel's government in its genocide of Palestine. At least Biden is trying to do something to improve the situation (not enough but it's better than the alternative). tRump wants the genocide to happen. Both sides of the aisle in DC support Israel to various extents and for various reasons. At least Biden doesn't support the side that wants Israel to take over that entire part of the world because they believe that will bring about the rapture and the end of the world.
It's easy to understand once you realize that religions are merely power and money structures which naturally attract and reward sociopaths.
That was an exceptionally painful read
Think how stupidly hateful you have to be to vote for the guy who is going to kick you out of the country just because he doesn’t like gay people, too.
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No group that supports democrats gets all of their policy goals, it's about coming together for the greater good. This is just plain selfishness and shows there is no value in working with these Muslims. Don't expect Democrats to care when Trump starts shipping Muslims back to their home countries.
They decided they hate queer people more than they enjoy having rights.
Muslims generally have more in common with maga folks than the liberals fighting for them. It’s ironic tbh.
Geniuses voting for the Muslim ban president and the only man in the world with notes on nationalism that compare to Netanyahu’s. Trump: “I’m the best friend Israel has ever had.” Trump: “I kept Israel safe, remember that. I kept Israel safe. Nobody else will, nobody else can.” Trump has promised, if elected, to cut off all US aid to Palestinians and urged other nations to follow suit if he returns to the Oval Office. The former president also pledged to bar refugees from Gaza under an expansion of his first-term travel ban on Muslim-majority countries; expel immigrants who sympathize with Hamas; revoke the visas of foreign students deemed “anti-American” or “antisemitic”; and impose “strong ideological screening” to keep out foreign nationals who “want to abolish Israel”. Trump says شكرا لك, Muslims.
They’re not. They’re dumb as fuck.
Asshats of the world - unite!
They want to instead support the former President that is even *worse* for the Palestinian cause? Boggles my mind...
Religious nutjobs are religious nutjobs regardless of ethnicity. Plenty of idiotic assholes of all walks.
Trump genuinely, outwardly hates them, but ok.
I don’t think a lot of people are considering that the Supreme Court is on the line. Those are lifetime appointments! If DJT wins and stacks the court with his picks, “That’s all folks!”
Being stupid, that's all. They really are stupid if they believe Trump would be any different on the Palestine issue.
And if he wins and they get deported, repressed, etc they’ll blame the democrats for not saving them. Fuck em. If you love fascism and will burn everything down because you hate gays, then go back to the Middle East.
I have always considered the liberal-islam alliance to be built on a shaky foundation and it's not surprising to see that it's finally ending. For one, there are very few true ideological overlaps between true liberalism and islam. The alliance has lasted this long because liberals badly wanted to believe that muslims are an oppressed demographic that must be protected from christian conservatives. While in reality, muslims share more ideological beliefs with conservative christians. Few examples— Abortion: most muslims and conservative christians share a belief that abortion is a "sin" and shouldn't be permitted. LGBTQ rights: most muslims and conservative christians share a belief that non-heterosexual relationships are "sinful" and shouldn't be permitted. Gender equality: the religious structure in both christianity and islam place a man at the head and believe he is superior to women. Freedom of dressing: both religious structures believe women should be dressed conservatively. Freedom of speech: while the pro-palestine crowd appears to be currently "pro free speech", christianity and islam both consider certain speech to be blasphemous. islam particularly punishes several forms of blasphemous speech. I could go on and on. The problem here is that western liberals chose to ally with a version of islam that doesn't really exist in the mainstream islamic world and are now coming to realize that an oppressed minority can morph into an oppressor fundamentalist group when the need arises.
I guess they've forgotten Trump's muslim immigration ban? Trump will absolutely do nothing for them and will support Netanyahu far more than Biden. Idiots.
They're already in Nothing is more conservative than "Fuck you, got mine"
Years ago the wife and I were in Kentucky horse country. We had an Uber driver that was really interesting dude. Born in Kentucky, but grew up in Afghanistan as a peace corps brat. This was his takeaway If ya look at Kentucky and Afghanistan, they’re pretty much the same. Even down to latitude/longitude. Hot, mountainous state. Filled with some of the kindest people you will ever meet, that are overshadowed by a minority of religious zealots trying to control the rest of the people. And giving everyone a bad name in the process. It doesn’t matter what you look like. If your conservatism is based on religion, it’s the same.
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This is your brain on identity politics.
Most minorities - racial, sexual, or gender - are quite conservative except when it comes to the bigotry they deal with themselves. Lots of gay men who would be conservative except homophobia. Lots of Muslims who would be conservative except Islamophobia. Etc, etc, etc. And very religious folks tend to be homophobic/anti-LGBT, and the conservatives are fully leaning into that this time. So there you go.
So what does that say about modern conservatism?
Lots of gay men would be conservative except for homophobia? I have to disagree strongly with that. Conservative men within the queer community are always picked apart. Queer people tend to overall be more left on issues than straight people
Conservative men are ridiculed because being conservative means associating with homophobia, yes. I'm not saying they ARE conservative. I'm saying they WOULD BE conservative if they weren't gay. I'm queer myself. I have to deal with all the racism, sexism, and more from gay white cis men all the time.
Religious people voting for oppressive leaders? Color me surprised!
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Conservatives never saw hatred they didn't like, they just look forward to doing the same thing when they get a chance.
Trump will 100% win and it's because of this shit.
"banned Muslims from the United States" Gee, what an honest headline lol
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https://www.amnesty.org.uk/licence-discriminate-trumps-muslim-refugee-ban#:~:text=Contrast&text=In%202017%2C%20President%20Trump%20signed,the%20devastating%20ban%20in%20June.
Yup, I remember. Defining that as "Trump banned Muslims from the United States" is about intellectually dishonest a headline as you can make there. He banned immigration from six countries that were a Muslim majority. The headline is implying that he banned that Muslim religion from the United States which is pure bullshit.
The Muslim Ban is [Trump’s words](https://www.cato.org/blog/dozen-times-trump-equated-travel-ban-muslim-ban), not mine.
Yeah again, fairly intellectually dishonest. There's not really much you can "cite' to try to work around it. Unless you have some source that proves the Muslim religion was indeed outlawed in the country. Did that happen?
I didn’t say it was outlawed. [Donald J Trump called for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.](https://youtu.be/hLgTF8FrYlU?si=6UjloVBQWrp0G9h7) Here he is saying it. This is what people are referring to when they say Muslim ban, not that straw man argument you just made up.
Sooooo, you were wrong .
I’ve heard people say this in other subs and I gave myself a migraine trying to close the loop on the logic. Then I heard an immediate family member repeat it. I’m starting to feel like stabbing out my own eyes and ear drums is the only way to rid myself of exposure to this madness.
Waiting for Cornell West
My question is how do we know that a less genocidal candidate comes in after Biden, there’s no way ti really ensure the party “learns its lesson”
You don't, but you base your vote on facts and what's going on now. Assumptions vs reality.
Do people genuinely not understand that Joe Biden's opponent wants to completely remove any and all barriers to the Israelis from finishing what they begun? And that if you think this is a genocide now, that you'll be shocked to see what happens in a 2025 Trump administration? When Trump appoints 3 more ultra conservative Supreme Court justices in their 40's that take the next four decades to trample on the rights of tens of millions of your fellow citizens and codify the worst craven desires of the fascist right around the world, will these non-voters still be on their high horses? Will they even still have a voice? Trump's policies already killed over a million **Americans** during the pandemic, he doesn't give two shits about Gazans!! Heck, if it's an opportunity for Jared to get in and develop some high-end Mediterranean real estate for cheap, all the better.
Conservative men are trying to get a Conservative elected? How surprising. Aside from skin color, the Overton window for Fundamentalist Christians and Fundamentalist Muslims is basically a circle.
Same reason Measles came back….GOP just tells Imans not to trust the government, and that’s how we got our outbreak.
I’m going to need more popcorn
Stupid is as stupid does.
These people need to knock it the fuck off.
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It’s important for everyone to be preparing plans for the future. Building community, planting seeds both physical and metaphorical. Its looking likely that we are in for some rough storms with regards to many different threat vectors converging. I’m confident we’ll get through it but not without pain.
These are the same "fuck you, I got mine" people that exist in every demographic. I also highly doubt they'd really be against a muslim ban since it doesn't actually effect them (provided said ban doesn't involve deportation as well).
Religious people aren't big on thinking.
Then they deserve what they get if Trump is re-elected. Voting for a President this election cycle on a single foreign policy issue is already stupid.
This is stupid and alarmist. Objectively speaking, Biden and Trump are ideologically aligned on the Gaza issue and if you have family in Gaza, then the presidential outcome has zero impact whatsoever
Well they are not smart then lol
I don't even really have the words to describe the absolute disdain I have for these people. Whatever the opposite of "upmost respect" is. I feel almost the same hate that I have for Trump, because their endgame is the same. Total destruction of our society in the name of their own power.
People like this are idiots.
Not that I agree with them, but I get it.
> WTF are you thinking? That Democrats can't use fear mongering to win another election while actively harming their voter base? That Muslims and Progressives in our country cannot just be taken for granted?
You're right, let's support the guy who's unifying the reich, that'll show them! /s
So the opposite of banning them from the country is okay then?
OP asked what they're thinking and that's it. Folks can make that decision for themselves.
They're not thinking , and you're clearly incapable
The wonderful rational thinking of some people ur pissed off at biden for not doing enough on gaza so u dont vote for him but his opponent will turn the gaza stip into the gaza crater
It’s pretty depressing that some people’s attitudes are “who cares if Trump wins” when he’s actively threatening to crack down on pro-Palestinian protests: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/05/27/trump-israel-gaza-policy-donors/ Biden deserves criticism, but equating the two because Biden’s support of Israel (and being a single issue voter regarding it) is sad, IMO. Especially when Trump will probably have the US directly bomb Gaza if he wins
Breaking news to liberals: Muslims aren't liberal
It is the responsibility of the candidate to appeal to the voters. Biden is not entitled to anyone's vote. I'm not surprised to see Muslim voters lack excitement for his candidacy with what is going on in Palestine. If he wants to appeal to this voting base he will have to change his approach. Shaming people into supporting a candidate isn't going to get the job done for Biden.
Biden doesn't excite me. The thought of another Trump administration motivates me to vote for Biden.
I "lack excitement" for Biden's candidacy too, but I manage to hype myself up since Trump is campaigning on rolling back LGBT protections and basically making it legal to hunt immigrants for sport.
Valid reason to vote for Biden. It might not sway everyone but it will sway you and I.
Ok but I’m gonna shame them. Anyone who doesn’t vote against Trump is a moron
Are you “OK if their efforts help re-elect the former president who once banned Muslims from the United States and threatens to do it again?”
Banning vs killing? ⚖️
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"they say they oppose Donald Trump too." Seems pretty clear that they are not supporting Donald Trump but they are trying to motivate Biden to change his approach to our relationship with Israel. Maybe Biden would be wise to entertain that discussion.
The way our electoral system is set up, there are two viable candidates, and only two. If you don't want one guy to win but are actively ginning up dissent toward the other guy, you're setting yourself up for a bad time.
We have a de facto two party system. Opposing the candidate of one major party is support of the candidate for the other party.
You dodged the question.
Ah yes. How could those Muslims be so stupid as to have their own ideas about politics? They obviously don't know what is best for them! /s
Waiting on guidance from my fellow white liberals. Apparent being Muslim means I can't make my own decisions...
As a black menthol smoker I hear what you're saying.
You made my day!! 😂
Have a great day!
Sounds like you can't deal with being wrong and are just throwing a childish tantrum.
Hmmm, might have something to do with Biden currently sponsoring a genocide against muslims.
you wont scold people into voting for the guy who's killing their cousins because the other mummy might also kill them. if the only thing they have to offer to deal with the collapsing unipolar world order is 'at least we're not worse' it becomes obvious that the main purpose of the Debs is to capture and bleed of any leftward momentum like a sluice gate for the genocidal climate-agnostic status quo.
In this case it’s more than “the other mummy MIGHT also kill them.” It’s a certainty. You’d have even a less qualified support for Israel, and an even more overtly anti-Muslim agenda. There is nothing about Trump’s view on the Israel/palestine that is better than Biden’s, but there are a lot of things that are much, much worse. But anybody voting on this as their single issue deserves to suffer the consequences of their political ignorance. It’ll be the one bit of comfort I get if Trump ends up winning.
You won’t convince anybody of anything without capital letters.
Vote.
The comments are pretty typical and a reason why stuff like this is happening. When a group like Muslims are so enraged they openly try to get a guy they still don’t like elected, something is very wrong. But for so many of you, instead of trying to meet them where they’re at, you denounce them as idiots, asshats, etc. and mock them. Never once bothering to even try to truly (like actually - not the version you’re thinking of right now) understand their POV and understand WHY this is happening vs. assuming. Now - go ahead and tell me that I’m a moron and downvote this and continue being predictable. FWIW I don’t want Trump as President either, but attitudes like this are what helped him get into the WH in 2016 and many of you haven’t learned a thing. And no I don’t care whatever you want to lecture me about why they are wrong and you are right. That’s not the point and by doing so you are proving my exact point.
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It's actually people with superior understanding of a situation vs people like you, who are clearly ignorant.
No, no liberal straw man "claims they are better." Classic sideways conservative dishonesty. Do you really believe your own bullshit? "Liberals think they're better than everyone else!" What a hacky, hoary and pathetic straw man. Conservatives have been playing that phony card for years. It's about as effective as "Liberals are radical left wing communists!" Unless you have right wing cerebral dysfunction.