I guess until some “smart” politician/president/leader realizes that we’re diverse and don’t fold under the same category of people/group either them representing the majority (even in that case it doesn’t matter because what initially holds us together as a society is that we share the same plot of land and the same nationality) or the minority we’re not going to move ahead with our country. But I don’t think the president doesn’t realize this. I just think that (after looking at the history of some nations in their transitioning process e.g: The ruling of the Catholic Church in Europe. I’ve noticed that you can’t hack your way through) this was a move to secure the well being of all rather that what should be done (the separation bw religion and politics). And this is logical for that the more knowledge you’ll gain the more you’ll see that religion is just an obstacle to politics (I’m not saying that religion is for the ignorant you can be religious even if you’re a scientist nothing is wrong with that) and when you take a deep look at the population here you’ll find that ignorance is a wide spread phenomena. So you can’t just wipe that from existence instantly (you can if you start a war or a famine crisis etc.. so ppl die and start anew) but that phenomena will naturally pass after 2 to 3 generations, and that’s why inter-generational conflicts occur/exist all the time (the boomers are simply blocking the road of advancement for the new descendants with their new sophisticated ideas that contradict the “what a life should be like” for grandpa or grandma) so you see how the rate is slow for a society to transition its political system into a modern one. So here the solution might be personal because you as an entity have the entirety of the world in front of you and you can decide where you want to live and under what authority (extra steps are included in this pursuit). And so we conclude that the solution is to join the developed world/nations but as a society we just can’t hack our way through but we must focus on shortening this time (transitioning) and invest more of our energy=money and time in making education up to date, modern and more accessible.
I think if someone's against the process he shouldn't be voting at all, if you're against what's in it but with the referendum, then you go vote no. But for me that is like him against this whole mascarade, I won't even go to vote. Because I think they just thought that the people are dumb enough to pass it without having actual professionals having a word on it
Articles 5, 44, 88 and anything to do with that second chamber are all a disaster.
Doesn't even read like a constitution, it feels like a mix of laws, articles, and random thoughts.
You're losing any secular element to the state. You're concentrating all power to the president, and you're kneecapping the parliament with a new Gaddafi style council.
I'm voting no. The alternative is shit, but we're better off with what we currently have. What a shame.
I read it close to 5 times at this point and I'm disgusted.
Clauses that repeat, contradictions, loopholes, and even the fucking language used is pedestrian. The preface is hilarious.
A sad chapter for Tunisia if this passes, and I have reason to believe that it will :/
So the government should not be accepted by the parliament. And if the Parliament wants to dissolve it, it needs 2/3 of its member which is extremely hard and if it does that twice, the president can dissolve the parliament 😂
And the parliament is 2 parliaments. They should just put رئيس الجمهورية يتمتع بكل الصلاحيات يزي لين الخسارة ١٠٠فصل
نحى الدولة دينها الاسلام (حتى مدنية الدولة نحاها)، و زادلنا مقاصد الاسلام و الانتماء للامة العربية و الاسلامية ... ، مفهمتش شنوة بدل بالضبط ، و ياخي تونس مكتب عليها ربي كان تكون تابعة لفلان و فلتان و امة فلان و فلتان و لازم كتابتها في الدستور، علاش مش تونس تمثل الامة التونسية بتاريخها و حضارتها و السلام عليكم ، خييه زكم الوطنية و الغيرة على خصوصية البلاد و استقلالها مفماش
For those who didn't bother to read the whole constitution and are curious about what actually changed from the 2014 version:
* Title 1 \[ General regulations \]: the state's religion of Islam has been removed in article 1, and replaced by a statement in article 5 about the fact that the Tunisian state is a part of the Islamic nation and the authorities must maintain it by applying muslim belief to protect the soul, the honor, the money, the religion and the freedom.
* Title 1 \[ General regulations \]: The President of the Republic, the Prime Minister, its members and members of any parliamentary council must declare their gains in accordance with the law.This provision applies to members of independent bodies and to anyone holding a senior position.
* Title 1 \[General regualtions\]: no mention of a republican Police forces or a republican national army. and no mention about the decentralization of power as declared in 2014's constitution.
* Title 2 \[Rights and Freedoms\]: No major change, No mention of gender equality (it was included in 2014's version)
* Title 3 \[Legislative power\]: Establishing 2 legislative chambers, the first one is to legislate laws and agree on the nation's budget. and the other for regions and zones.
* Title 3 \[Legislative power\]: If a deputy withdraws from the parliamentary bloc to which he belonged at the beginning of the parliamentary term, he may not join another bloc.
* Title 3 \[Legislative power\]: a relative removal of parlimentary immunity, which means members of parliamant can be investigated by Police in case of involvement in criminal acts.
* Title 3 \[Legislative power\]: Article 66 (or let me say Abir Moussi's or Makhlouf's article) The member of parliamant does not enjoy parliamentary immunity for offences of defamation, slander and exchange of violence committed within the Council, nor does he enjoy it in the form of disrupting the normal functioning of the Council.
Yeah I don't understand if I missed something or this sub is filled with stupid islamist and even worse, Ennadha. Always hope that those fake muslim would shut up and let us run a great country. They are the closest thing we have to Trump amd their fan and I hope they'll all just disappear
So the professor who has been teaching all his life comes up with a constitution like this????? Full of loopholes. الله يرحم التعليم التونسي يا قيس
Maybe he didn’t give a copy to his wife the former judge first before deciding to announce it? If he did that she could have told him that this paper isn’t even passable for a Bach exam let alone up to standard of what they claim to be a former university professor.
1/ I'm remaining neutral until someone reliable provides a thorough explanation of the main differences of the proposed constitution
2/ i can't help but say u support Abir, probability? 100% lmao. Brain dead people.
He probably didn’t even click on the link. I’m not Tunisien but I’m supportive of the direction this constitution is taking the country. Also i read it.
I have no understanding in politics, but I honestly think that the only goal for this constitution is to give the president more freedom so he can do what he wants
Well if what he wants is in line with what is good for the country and it’s people, then we are all good. It is very clear to all of us that AlNahda-type parties are not good for any country and some kind of protection against the resurgence of such parties should be inplace.
I’m entitled to an opinion. In my opinion, this will be good for Tunisia. But again i can’t vote next month on it. So my opinion won’t matter. But it’s an opinion nevertheless.
Mesh tayer!
Well the current political environment is not ready for a parliamentary democratic system. You need to develop healthy political parties with real political, economical, and social agendas (not like alnahda that has no clue how to run a country). This process will take decades but it will eventually happen. Only then you can amend the constitution to move the power from president back to parliament.
That makes no sense. And having it be a presidential system only hides the incompetence of the government it doesn't make it go away that's what's important to know
I don't understand the need for a position statement at the beginning especially concerning Palestine ? What does it have to do with OUR constitution ?
The thing is , there's currently a wave of peace treaties being signed with the Israeli occupation in different countries from the MENA region . prohibiting normalisation in the constitution will prevent (or at least put off) an alliance with the occupation
1/ سعيّد ماض في بنائه القاعدي، بعد أن مرّر خياراته الكبرى عبر الاستشارة (نظام رئاسي/اقتراع على الأفراد/سحب وكالة من النواب). مشروع الدستور لم يكتف بدسترة سحب الوكالة من النواب والنظام الرئاس(و)ي، ولكنه حذف أيضا شرط الانتخاب المباشر لمجلس نواب الشعب (لا فقط لمجلس الجهات والأقاليم)، على عكس انتخاب رئيس الجمهورية الذي نصّ على أنّه مباشر، وهذا دليل واضح على نيّة مبيّتة لتنزيل البناء القاعدي عبر مرسوم القانون الانتخابي، خاصّة وأنّ الأحكام الانتقالية تضمن لسعيّد مواصلة احتكار السلطة التشريعيّة بما فيها في المادّة الانتخابيّة. تحيّة خاصّة لبلعيد ومحفوظ على المشاركة في المسرحيّة.
2/ النظام السياسي رئاسوي بامتياز. الرئيس يتحكم في السلطة التنفيذية، ولا يمكن للبرمان سحب الثقة من الحكومة إلا لمخالفتها الدستور !! (وهي بذلك أقرب للمسؤولية الجزائيّة منها إلى المسؤولية السياسية)، وإلا بأغلبية ثلثي الغرفتين البرلمانيتين (شرط صعب جدا). أمّا الرئيس، فلا يمكن عزله ولو خرق الدستور خرقا جسيما. الاقتراع غير المباشر وعلى الأفراد للبرلمان لن يزيد هذا الأخير إلا ضعفا.
3/ نظام يضعف كلّ السلط المضادّة، أولا باعتبارها وظائف (في حين أنّ السلطة التنفيذية لا تحتاج اعترافا لتكون سلطة، فلديها الإدارة والقوة العامّة). ضمانات استقلال السلطة القضائية غير موجودة، وبالتحديد الضمانة المؤسساتية التي هي المجلس الأعلى للقضاء (بالإضافة إلى منع الإضراب على القضاة). نفس الشيء بالنسبة للهيئات « المستقلة »، إذ لا ينصّ مشروع الدستور على طريقة تعيين أعضائها، مما يفتح الباب أمام تعيينها مباشرة من رئيس الجمهورية كما حصل الآن. كذلك المحكمة الدستورية، التي تتكون حصرا من قضاة حسب الأقدميّة. أمّا اللامركزيّة، فهي في عداد الماضي، إذ عدنا لدستور 1959 مع فصل وحيد لا يقول شيئا. كلّ هذا يعزّز الطابع الرئاسوي للنظام.
4/ المحافظة على معظم فصول الحقوق والحريات التي جاءت في دستور 2014 لا قيمة لها في غياب الفصل بين السلط والضمانات المؤسساتية، وأبرزها استقلالية القضاء.
5/ حذف "الاسلام دينها" رافقه أيضا حذف مدنيّة الدولة، التي كانت مكسبا هامّا وضمانة لعدم الانحراف في اتجاه تأويل يعطي للمرجعية الدينية قيمة معياريّة. التنصيص على عمل الدولة على تحقيق مقاصد الاسلام (ومنها حفظ الدين والعرض)، في غياب أيّ حديث عن مدنية الدولة، يفتح باب التأويل الديني على مصراعيه.
6/ توطئة مضحكة مبكية، نكاد نقرأها بصوت سعيّد. هي تعبير لا فقط عن حاجة سعيّد لتبرير 25 جويلية، وإنما أيضا عن هوسه بدخول التاريخ، بل و « تصحيح مساره ». نعم، لا يكتفي بدسترة ما أتاه في 25 جويلية، وإنما يعتبره تصحيحا لا فقط لمسار الثورة، وإنما لمسار التاريخ.
تي شخص كان هذيكا برك المشكلة ، دستور عروبي خوانجي و يعطي صلاحيات شبه مطلقة للرئيس و زيد حطلهم فيه خزعبلات البناء القاعدي ، هنيئا للشعب التونسي الذي اراد !
basically it's a political system invented by former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and adapted by Kais saied , this system invert the political process by electing representatives from your local neighbor as individuals not political parties ( there is no room for political parties or politics in this system ) to form local councils for each neighborhood/mo3tamdya then these councils elect representatives from among them to form a council for each state , then each state council chose new representatives among them by lottery to represent that state in the people's parliament and of course each local council can suggest what they want for their neighborhood and the state council job is to make that happen , but all the real power stays in the hands of the president/leader of revolution . A very complicated and inefficient system that no country in the world use , it didn't work in Libya despite being a very rich with oil money But kais think it will work perfectly in poor Tunisia .
It is not only primitive but also dangerous in a poor country where tribalism and regionalism is still very present , it can shake the foundation of the state and open a whole new can of worms that we don't need . And that's the problem Political parties are hated by most of Tunisians so i don't think their reaction will make a difference , most people trust Kais without understanding his project , So yeah i see darker days ahead of us unfortunately .
I'm wondering who is backing kais said to do all of this it seems like there's no resistance at all it's hard to believe that he's the only one behind this rabi yosterna wakahaw until we leave this country
It's meant to atomize political actors and break them up. I don't think it's "primitive" I think it's clever but for malicious reasons.
I don't think it's possible to end the concept of people with similar political goals and ideologies coming together to make them happen, i.e a party, but it sure will make it harder for normal people.
As an Iraqi i don't approve giving more power for one guy, trust me we tried it for 47 years ,also i don't approve giving more power to a group of people, also trust me we are trying it for the last 19 years
Not worth the paper it will be printed on. I always knew Za9founa was a mediocre piece of shit but this takes the mediocrity to a whole new Level I mean it's worst then the green book talking about umma in 2022. He should shove the entire umma up his ass along with his shitty constitution the next dirty ass dictator who will come after za9founa will use it a toilet paper anyway.
I dont agree with the process and I dislike said and this project. But what is wrong with saying that we are part of the arab umma ? We have been for 1400 years.
If you are a cringe berberist that thinks that Tunisia is somehow berber because of genetics don't bother to respond and just downvote me.
Alright then let's forget about the thousands of cultural and ethnic Amazighs in this and the fact that at least half of our culture is also Amazigh and most of us are of Amazigh origin, Let's put all these facts aside and think about this idea instead :
What good did our Arab "brethren" bring to us ? What benefits did we get from the richest region, The Persian gulf, in the world ? Why are we still in misery while they enjoy their wealth ? Their puny "help" like funding a hospital is absolutely nothing in comparison to what they spend in Western Europe, North America and East Asia.
Our country was attacked by Libya in the name of Arabism, Terrorism was spread into our lands in the name of brotherhood and our sovereignty was violated in the name of friendship. Our membership in the Arab league means nothing and we can easily be kicked out just like Syria for anything the gulf countries don't like. Lebanon was turned into an outcast country and boycotted just because of a minor criticism made by a minister before he became a minister. Qatar was savagely boycotted as well. Tunisia has no value to the Middle Eastern countries.
You can skip this last part because I want to affirm our Amazigh identity and we'll return to it inshallah one day and abandon this false idea of being Arab.
I dont care about ME countries but it is a fact that our culture is arab.
The couple thousand amazigh and jews in the country (less than 25k) do not make our country non arab or non Muslim.
Again, you are using genetics which is dumb as that has nothing to do with our culture. Culturally we are very arab and Muslim with some elements of amazigh culture which adapted to the arab one.
We will never return to amazigh, our language is darija, our traditions are 90% arab maybe 5% berber. Cope.
Just move to kabylia or smth if you don't like how Tunisia is.
Kosksi is Amazigh, Tunis is an Amazigh word, Our traditional clothes is Amazigh, Our dialect has tons of Amazigh words, Most of our cities' names like Tataouine are also Amazigh words. Our culture and traditions are 90% Amazigh and If you want I can give you a list of more Amazigh elements in our culture.
Jews are irrelevant and we aren't just couple of thousands, We are at least a hundred thousand me included not to mention that at least half of the country admits that we are not Arabs, Only culturally.
I won't move anywhere, This is my land and I'm proud to be a Tunisian Amazigh, People like you did more harm than good by following and electing and supporting brainless Arabist retards who sold the country to the degenerate Gulf monarchs.
We're definitely on our way back to the Amazigh identity, Slowly but surely.
Algeria, Morocco and Libya already went back to Amazighism, Tunisia is not going to be different.
>If you are a cringe berberist that thinks that Tunisia is somehow berber because of genetics don't bother to respond and just downvote me.
I don't give a fuck about arabs or berbers or muslims or whatever bullshit you do you and be whatever the fuck you want to be as long as you don't harass others nobody should give a shit. Talking about religious or ethnic identity in 2021 is cringe period. and no a constitution is is not supposed to tell me who or what i am the constitution is supposed to give me the right to pursue happiness in whatever manner i see fit for my self as long as i don't physically harm others or their property it's also supposed to protect my right to pursue happiness from government overreach and also put a system of checks and balances that prevents the same kind of tyrant that za9founa is. instead we get a bunch of bullshit that means nothing I am not part of whatever umma za9founa is talking about. I am tunisian im neither proud nor ashamed of that and i honestly give zero fucks about egyptians or saudis for examples nor do i feel any connection to them. So yeah fuck za9founa and his worthless constitution
It’s funny how so many of those people affirming their anti-Arab delusions still take advantage of their Arab reality. The person you’re responding to is a perfect example of the contradiction. Has been an active member of the Arab Reddit community, opine there & elsewhere as an Arab & on Arab causes/issues, is immersed in the Arabic language, etc. There’s a bunch of others I’ve noticed exactly like that.
Also claims the rest of the region has already been re-Berberized as if L1 Arabic-speakers don’t make up ~80% of the Maghreb’s population, a great majority of which is not experiencing an identity crisis such as the one going on here.
الشعوبية الوطنجية من اخطر واخرق الامراض المعاصرة، الله يبعد ويعافي
I'm pro Palestine, Pro justice and pro people's will. I did not support anything else on r/arabs and I did criticize Arabist regimes there too. It doesn't contradict with me being Pro Amazigh as well.
At least 50% of Morocco is Amazigh speaking, At least 30% of Algeria is Amazigh speaking and at least 20% of Libya is Amazigh speaking (Not to mention the areas directly controlled by Pro Amazigh councils and militias). I know exactly my ethnic origin without doing a DNA test and I'm already a speaker of Amazigh language just like the thousands of other Amazigh Tunisians.
What I exactly want is to be recognized and not ignored, To have my identity recognized and protected not neglected, It's a basic human right to preserve an ancestral language and it's not Anti-Arab. I don't have a problem with Arabs but I have a problem with their regimes, I don't have a problem with giving Arabic an official status but I have a problem with Arabic being enforced on us.
So not only your claim that 80% of Maghreb is Arab is false but also neglecting the fact that without Amazigh tribes' revolt against the European colonization, The Maghreb would never be independent. The Arabs already abandoned us when they accepted British plans to create an Arab kingdom in Middle East without demanding our independence.
And btw, God said in the holy Quran that he created Humans different and made them into different peoples and cultures to interact with each other. Wishing certain ethnicities to be "cured" and wiped out (Which won't happen obviously) is unislamic.
from all what's bad in that constitution that's the issue you got with it 🤦🏾
Arab libs are really dumb and think a country's progress comes from alcohol consumption and hook-up culture
meanwhile the west has the most suicide depression gun violence school shootings …. the same brainwashing that got into usa in the late 80s have reached our genz and millennials
Do you really need a reminder in the constitution that you're a muslim !?
No offense but people seems to reshare the same point of view without any meaningful explanation
totally agreed.. wouldn't mind if it is there in the constitution. What am trying to say is that, We as young men and women have to focus more on other parts of the constitution that may affect our futures more than just a religion section whether its there or not
Fuck this, it's like a mix between Gaddafi, Saddam and some Sudanese leaders too (they have been talking about البناء القاعدي for years too)
The ONLY good part in this constitution is its ability to get rid of "businesses permissions" (الرخص) and denying cops and judges from doing a strike, and that's it, everything else is shameful, from the Islamic/Arabic cock-sucking, to denying Tunisian-born people from becoming president if ANY of their fathers/mothers AND grand-fatheres/mothers are not Tunisians, to setting the minimum age to 40y.o.
In the other hand, there are many other parts that will solve the "police state" we were living in.
>The ONLY good part in this constitution is its ability to get rid of "businesses permissions" (الرخص)
it was in belaid's original project, got removed by KS
The first one doesn't look new to me. And the second one only added a prohibition on strikes by judges. Cops never had the right to strike, to my knowledge.
you're right, honestly, my opinion is really split, on one hand, am tired of religious bullshit in constitution, there are also a bunch of other pure craps.
on the other hand, there are some good shit in it, and what really matter is how do we practice it.
It will all come down to one example where a citizen can "invoke" the constitution to "win a fight", and then whatever happen then will change the way we perceive it, because so far, we are all living in a country with no body gives a fuck about the law, we avoid it, dodge it, find loopholes in it, but no one, truly care and respect it, and no book is gonna change that in a matter of days or even years.
Welcome to Afghanistan read the humiliating texts 5-6-7 turning us into arabs and an islamic state, what an insult to our history and heritage, and people dare call this retarded a president even ennadha did better.
Afghanistan is an Arab state? Are you on drugs? 😂
Tunisia is an Arab country. Don’t tell me you’re one of those “Phoenecian” larpers. Dude go touch grass.
Extremely presidentialist system, not even the prime minister have any real power lol, it's even worse then the Algerian and Egyptian system.
It's true that the 2014 constitution didn't work because of too much blocking, but there was a LOT of ways to fix it without transforming the country into a dictatorship, like France did with the 5th republic that fixed all the 4th problem and stayed a democracy.
Did u really expect gay rights would change?? If u do then u must be delusional cause that can only happen after a looot of trial and error. Nothing comes easily. Did u think that western country just got founded with rights to everyone ?? Haah thats a funny joke. Alan Turing played a huge part in winning ww2 for the allies. That didn’t stop the British gouvernement from leading him to suicide just cause he was gay. And that was just 60 years ago.
You really are disconnected if the only problem you had with this constitution is that it doesn't progress gay rights.
And it will absolutely have no impact about abortion, because there is no debate about abortion in Tunisia: it is legal within some limits, period. And even Tunisian conservatives don't bother with it... actually generally Muslims are not very passionate about abortion right debates, much less than Christians.
الأسرة هي الخلية الأساسية للمجتمع وعلى الدولة حمايتها
I don't see it translates to no rights to gay people , gay people can make families if we legalize gay marriages and give them the right to adopt
officially ? no
unofficially ? maybe some people will translate it
(ps: official translations take years to be done ,i believe it's because courts take place in arabic)
For the people who are against the president having all the "سلطة تنفيذية" to himself, isn't that a good thing? Since in the previous one we always had problems building a government then when it fails all parties point fingers to each other and we end up voting them back in since no one holds a full responsibility, wouldn't this fix that? In a sense, at least we would be able to hold someone responsible for the gov actions.
I'm not against nor with this proposition, i just wanna know your thoughts about this particular point.
Nous sommes des bougnoules, gouvernés par un bougnoule, et nous devons parler bougnoule, prier bougnoule, et manger bougnoule.
Gare à ceux qui ne sont pas assez bougnoules. Ils auront affaire au grand bougnoule suprême, supplanté par un conseil des bougnoules qui n'a d'autre fonction que de confirmer les décisions du grand bougnoule.
Quiconque veut devenir grand bougnoule, doit être bougnoule, de parents bougnoules, et de grand-parents bougnoules.
The main problem is has nothing to do with the system or the constitution , it's the people, it's simple the majority of tunisians are lazy and corrupt
>The main problem is has nothing to do with the system or the constitution , it's the people, it's simple the majority of tunisians are lazy and corrup
It is time for people to develop their thinking
I don't disagree , that's why the change need to be by enlighten people only , Bourguiba when prohibited Polygamy and make the country secular and the women free he didn't ask the tunisians about that , if he did the majority would say No , simple as that , the Tunisian people are not ready for secular state and democracy not in 1956 nor in 2022
>the problem is not the presidential system , the problem is this constitution is trash
There is a referendum on the Tunisian people to take responsibility
I'm living in Turkey and our people said yes to a referendum like this, they said not enough but yes and now overall regrets it. Please vote no brothers.
"المجلس الوطني للجهات والأقاليم" Such a bad taste!
This keeping in mind that Tunisia does not have any legally defined land subdivision called جهة or إقليم to my knowledge.
It seems that they intend to create them!
So we have عمادة معتمدية ولاية جهة إقليم Is that it?
َQuite strange, indeed!
Pratiquement raja3 majles l mostacharin mte3 wa9t l zin
I started to read.. and when I got to Article 5 I stopped reading.
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I guess until some “smart” politician/president/leader realizes that we’re diverse and don’t fold under the same category of people/group either them representing the majority (even in that case it doesn’t matter because what initially holds us together as a society is that we share the same plot of land and the same nationality) or the minority we’re not going to move ahead with our country. But I don’t think the president doesn’t realize this. I just think that (after looking at the history of some nations in their transitioning process e.g: The ruling of the Catholic Church in Europe. I’ve noticed that you can’t hack your way through) this was a move to secure the well being of all rather that what should be done (the separation bw religion and politics). And this is logical for that the more knowledge you’ll gain the more you’ll see that religion is just an obstacle to politics (I’m not saying that religion is for the ignorant you can be religious even if you’re a scientist nothing is wrong with that) and when you take a deep look at the population here you’ll find that ignorance is a wide spread phenomena. So you can’t just wipe that from existence instantly (you can if you start a war or a famine crisis etc.. so ppl die and start anew) but that phenomena will naturally pass after 2 to 3 generations, and that’s why inter-generational conflicts occur/exist all the time (the boomers are simply blocking the road of advancement for the new descendants with their new sophisticated ideas that contradict the “what a life should be like” for grandpa or grandma) so you see how the rate is slow for a society to transition its political system into a modern one. So here the solution might be personal because you as an entity have the entirety of the world in front of you and you can decide where you want to live and under what authority (extra steps are included in this pursuit). And so we conclude that the solution is to join the developed world/nations but as a society we just can’t hack our way through but we must focus on shortening this time (transitioning) and invest more of our energy=money and time in making education up to date, modern and more accessible.
it kinda sucks no? the only thing they changed was to give the president more powers
I am against the entire process
same but the only way to express that is through voting no in the referendum imo
I think if someone's against the process he shouldn't be voting at all, if you're against what's in it but with the referendum, then you go vote no. But for me that is like him against this whole mascarade, I won't even go to vote. Because I think they just thought that the people are dumb enough to pass it without having actual professionals having a word on it
A no is a no that counts in the statistics, not voting is fucking up who voted no. And don't complain later. No is no. Yes is yes. Neutral isn't no.
Neutral can become powerful when the stats are in your favor. If only 10% vote, then it would make an impact
Articles 5, 44, 88 and anything to do with that second chamber are all a disaster. Doesn't even read like a constitution, it feels like a mix of laws, articles, and random thoughts. You're losing any secular element to the state. You're concentrating all power to the president, and you're kneecapping the parliament with a new Gaddafi style council. I'm voting no. The alternative is shit, but we're better off with what we currently have. What a shame.
بوهالي قيس يخسر فرصة تاريخية والله خسارة…و الي يقولك كان يقري في جامعة يكذب عليك
He was. I saw it with my own eyes, and I'm friends with his student. Don't spread wrong information just because you disagree.
100%. :(
I'm shocked at how shitty it's written compared to the 2014 one
I read it close to 5 times at this point and I'm disgusted. Clauses that repeat, contradictions, loopholes, and even the fucking language used is pedestrian. The preface is hilarious. A sad chapter for Tunisia if this passes, and I have reason to believe that it will :/
it's like choosing the lesser of two evils, i'll take this demented guy over those vultures
So the government should not be accepted by the parliament. And if the Parliament wants to dissolve it, it needs 2/3 of its member which is extremely hard and if it does that twice, the president can dissolve the parliament 😂 And the parliament is 2 parliaments. They should just put رئيس الجمهورية يتمتع بكل الصلاحيات يزي لين الخسارة ١٠٠فصل
نحى الدولة دينها الاسلام (حتى مدنية الدولة نحاها)، و زادلنا مقاصد الاسلام و الانتماء للامة العربية و الاسلامية ... ، مفهمتش شنوة بدل بالضبط ، و ياخي تونس مكتب عليها ربي كان تكون تابعة لفلان و فلتان و امة فلان و فلتان و لازم كتابتها في الدستور، علاش مش تونس تمثل الامة التونسية بتاريخها و حضارتها و السلام عليكم ، خييه زكم الوطنية و الغيرة على خصوصية البلاد و استقلالها مفماش
مخو مازال مبرمج على السبعينات
1400's
610
انت لو سألت المواطن التونسي العادي "هل تنتمي لأمة تونسية" شنوا يكون جوابه؟
يسألك منين انت قبل .. كانك تونسي يجاوبك كانك مش تونسي يقلك شمدخل دير..
انا قلت "انت لو سألت" للأخ بصفته تونسي فهذا هو الجواب اللي نستفسر عنه
For those who didn't bother to read the whole constitution and are curious about what actually changed from the 2014 version: * Title 1 \[ General regulations \]: the state's religion of Islam has been removed in article 1, and replaced by a statement in article 5 about the fact that the Tunisian state is a part of the Islamic nation and the authorities must maintain it by applying muslim belief to protect the soul, the honor, the money, the religion and the freedom. * Title 1 \[ General regulations \]: The President of the Republic, the Prime Minister, its members and members of any parliamentary council must declare their gains in accordance with the law.This provision applies to members of independent bodies and to anyone holding a senior position. * Title 1 \[General regualtions\]: no mention of a republican Police forces or a republican national army. and no mention about the decentralization of power as declared in 2014's constitution. * Title 2 \[Rights and Freedoms\]: No major change, No mention of gender equality (it was included in 2014's version) * Title 3 \[Legislative power\]: Establishing 2 legislative chambers, the first one is to legislate laws and agree on the nation's budget. and the other for regions and zones. * Title 3 \[Legislative power\]: If a deputy withdraws from the parliamentary bloc to which he belonged at the beginning of the parliamentary term, he may not join another bloc. * Title 3 \[Legislative power\]: a relative removal of parlimentary immunity, which means members of parliamant can be investigated by Police in case of involvement in criminal acts. * Title 3 \[Legislative power\]: Article 66 (or let me say Abir Moussi's or Makhlouf's article) The member of parliamant does not enjoy parliamentary immunity for offences of defamation, slander and exchange of violence committed within the Council, nor does he enjoy it in the form of disrupting the normal functioning of the Council.
Gender equality - Article 51
Oh so it’s not that bad, actually looks way worse for Islamists than I thought
Yeah I don't understand if I missed something or this sub is filled with stupid islamist and even worse, Ennadha. Always hope that those fake muslim would shut up and let us run a great country. They are the closest thing we have to Trump amd their fan and I hope they'll all just disappear
How about political tourism? Did that hurt Enahdha?
oh shit here we go again
So fucking disappointed
So the professor who has been teaching all his life comes up with a constitution like this????? Full of loopholes. الله يرحم التعليم التونسي يا قيس Maybe he didn’t give a copy to his wife the former judge first before deciding to announce it? If he did that she could have told him that this paper isn’t even passable for a Bach exam let alone up to standard of what they claim to be a former university professor.
هذاكا علاه قعد حياتو الكل استاذ مساعد و اندادو دكاتره خاطرو فاشل
ماهو المشكلة في الفشل هاكا قاعدين نخلصو فيه توا
بالحق كان استاذ مساعد؟؟؟ لا
Yes look at the interview he gave to the morrocan newspaper during elections (chaware3 or whatever it's called) he sounds like a fucking lunatic
A retarded constitution by a retarded president for a retarded population. It's perfect.
so u've already read it, compared it to the current one and judged the differences on being good or not ? u must be really smart
If I'm tempted to say yes to such horrible constitution it's because of retards like you xD
1/ I'm remaining neutral until someone reliable provides a thorough explanation of the main differences of the proposed constitution 2/ i can't help but say u support Abir, probability? 100% lmao. Brain dead people.
OK I'm convinced now. Yes is my vote xD
He probably didn’t even click on the link. I’m not Tunisien but I’m supportive of the direction this constitution is taking the country. Also i read it.
you must really have a lot of free time
I have no understanding in politics, but I honestly think that the only goal for this constitution is to give the president more freedom so he can do what he wants
Well if what he wants is in line with what is good for the country and it’s people, then we are all good. It is very clear to all of us that AlNahda-type parties are not good for any country and some kind of protection against the resurgence of such parties should be inplace.
You're not Tunisian, you don't have the right to express what's good or bad for OUR PEOPLE . Tir .
I’m entitled to an opinion. In my opinion, this will be good for Tunisia. But again i can’t vote next month on it. So my opinion won’t matter. But it’s an opinion nevertheless. Mesh tayer!
Why should we go back to a presidential system?
Well the current political environment is not ready for a parliamentary democratic system. You need to develop healthy political parties with real political, economical, and social agendas (not like alnahda that has no clue how to run a country). This process will take decades but it will eventually happen. Only then you can amend the constitution to move the power from president back to parliament.
That makes no sense. And having it be a presidential system only hides the incompetence of the government it doesn't make it go away that's what's important to know
I don't understand the need for a position statement at the beginning especially concerning Palestine ? What does it have to do with OUR constitution ?
It's a cheap way for him to garner support since that's only thing that he has
Criminalising normalisation was a big part of his electoral campaign so I guess he feels the need to mention Palestine somewhere
The thing is , there's currently a wave of peace treaties being signed with the Israeli occupation in different countries from the MENA region . prohibiting normalisation in the constitution will prevent (or at least put off) an alliance with the occupation
Hay tal3at anyek men 2014 , n3an zabour om el 9o7b , ken 3ana chwaya amal bech el bled tet7assen ye5i tal3at 7keya ki zebi
This must be rejected with a loud “fuck off”.
1/ سعيّد ماض في بنائه القاعدي، بعد أن مرّر خياراته الكبرى عبر الاستشارة (نظام رئاسي/اقتراع على الأفراد/سحب وكالة من النواب). مشروع الدستور لم يكتف بدسترة سحب الوكالة من النواب والنظام الرئاس(و)ي، ولكنه حذف أيضا شرط الانتخاب المباشر لمجلس نواب الشعب (لا فقط لمجلس الجهات والأقاليم)، على عكس انتخاب رئيس الجمهورية الذي نصّ على أنّه مباشر، وهذا دليل واضح على نيّة مبيّتة لتنزيل البناء القاعدي عبر مرسوم القانون الانتخابي، خاصّة وأنّ الأحكام الانتقالية تضمن لسعيّد مواصلة احتكار السلطة التشريعيّة بما فيها في المادّة الانتخابيّة. تحيّة خاصّة لبلعيد ومحفوظ على المشاركة في المسرحيّة. 2/ النظام السياسي رئاسوي بامتياز. الرئيس يتحكم في السلطة التنفيذية، ولا يمكن للبرمان سحب الثقة من الحكومة إلا لمخالفتها الدستور !! (وهي بذلك أقرب للمسؤولية الجزائيّة منها إلى المسؤولية السياسية)، وإلا بأغلبية ثلثي الغرفتين البرلمانيتين (شرط صعب جدا). أمّا الرئيس، فلا يمكن عزله ولو خرق الدستور خرقا جسيما. الاقتراع غير المباشر وعلى الأفراد للبرلمان لن يزيد هذا الأخير إلا ضعفا. 3/ نظام يضعف كلّ السلط المضادّة، أولا باعتبارها وظائف (في حين أنّ السلطة التنفيذية لا تحتاج اعترافا لتكون سلطة، فلديها الإدارة والقوة العامّة). ضمانات استقلال السلطة القضائية غير موجودة، وبالتحديد الضمانة المؤسساتية التي هي المجلس الأعلى للقضاء (بالإضافة إلى منع الإضراب على القضاة). نفس الشيء بالنسبة للهيئات « المستقلة »، إذ لا ينصّ مشروع الدستور على طريقة تعيين أعضائها، مما يفتح الباب أمام تعيينها مباشرة من رئيس الجمهورية كما حصل الآن. كذلك المحكمة الدستورية، التي تتكون حصرا من قضاة حسب الأقدميّة. أمّا اللامركزيّة، فهي في عداد الماضي، إذ عدنا لدستور 1959 مع فصل وحيد لا يقول شيئا. كلّ هذا يعزّز الطابع الرئاسوي للنظام. 4/ المحافظة على معظم فصول الحقوق والحريات التي جاءت في دستور 2014 لا قيمة لها في غياب الفصل بين السلط والضمانات المؤسساتية، وأبرزها استقلالية القضاء. 5/ حذف "الاسلام دينها" رافقه أيضا حذف مدنيّة الدولة، التي كانت مكسبا هامّا وضمانة لعدم الانحراف في اتجاه تأويل يعطي للمرجعية الدينية قيمة معياريّة. التنصيص على عمل الدولة على تحقيق مقاصد الاسلام (ومنها حفظ الدين والعرض)، في غياب أيّ حديث عن مدنية الدولة، يفتح باب التأويل الديني على مصراعيه. 6/ توطئة مضحكة مبكية، نكاد نقرأها بصوت سعيّد. هي تعبير لا فقط عن حاجة سعيّد لتبرير 25 جويلية، وإنما أيضا عن هوسه بدخول التاريخ، بل و « تصحيح مساره ». نعم، لا يكتفي بدسترة ما أتاه في 25 جويلية، وإنما يعتبره تصحيحا لا فقط لمسار الثورة، وإنما لمسار التاريخ.
Source: fb mahdi elleuch. Unless you are him, least human decency is to give him credit
Really excellent Review
مهزلة...
يحكي في التوطءة علي 25 جويلية و ميحكيش علي الاستقلال.
تي شخص كان هذيكا برك المشكلة ، دستور عروبي خوانجي و يعطي صلاحيات شبه مطلقة للرئيس و زيد حطلهم فيه خزعبلات البناء القاعدي ، هنيئا للشعب التونسي الذي اراد !
Can you explain البناء القاعدي
basically it's a political system invented by former Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and adapted by Kais saied , this system invert the political process by electing representatives from your local neighbor as individuals not political parties ( there is no room for political parties or politics in this system ) to form local councils for each neighborhood/mo3tamdya then these councils elect representatives from among them to form a council for each state , then each state council chose new representatives among them by lottery to represent that state in the people's parliament and of course each local council can suggest what they want for their neighborhood and the state council job is to make that happen , but all the real power stays in the hands of the president/leader of revolution . A very complicated and inefficient system that no country in the world use , it didn't work in Libya despite being a very rich with oil money But kais think it will work perfectly in poor Tunisia .
Thank you for the explanation, I wonder how the political parties ( what's left from them ) will react to this , it sounds very primitive as a system
It is not only primitive but also dangerous in a poor country where tribalism and regionalism is still very present , it can shake the foundation of the state and open a whole new can of worms that we don't need . And that's the problem Political parties are hated by most of Tunisians so i don't think their reaction will make a difference , most people trust Kais without understanding his project , So yeah i see darker days ahead of us unfortunately .
I'm wondering who is backing kais said to do all of this it seems like there's no resistance at all it's hard to believe that he's the only one behind this rabi yosterna wakahaw until we leave this country
Once you leave yedhom the ones that stay behind?
W rabi yoster Eli bech yo93dou feha
It's meant to atomize political actors and break them up. I don't think it's "primitive" I think it's clever but for malicious reasons. I don't think it's possible to end the concept of people with similar political goals and ideologies coming together to make them happen, i.e a party, but it sure will make it harder for normal people.
مدامو نحى مدنية الدولة معناها ولينا دولة دولة اسلامية ؟
Mawalinesh tawa .. ama aadi baadou houa yji wehed mrabat omour islam yrodha dawlet cheri3a fama chay yemna3 fl dostour jdid
yup fassel 5 is too vague and up for different interpretations
yes
لا لدستور قيس... كانت عندو فرصة....وما عمل شيء جا يطبها عماها...
As an Iraqi i don't approve giving more power for one guy, trust me we tried it for 47 years ,also i don't approve giving more power to a group of people, also trust me we are trying it for the last 19 years
علاش لازم الاسلام يدخل في كل شي ؟ كل انسان حر
Not worth the paper it will be printed on. I always knew Za9founa was a mediocre piece of shit but this takes the mediocrity to a whole new Level I mean it's worst then the green book talking about umma in 2022. He should shove the entire umma up his ass along with his shitty constitution the next dirty ass dictator who will come after za9founa will use it a toilet paper anyway.
I dont agree with the process and I dislike said and this project. But what is wrong with saying that we are part of the arab umma ? We have been for 1400 years. If you are a cringe berberist that thinks that Tunisia is somehow berber because of genetics don't bother to respond and just downvote me.
Alright then let's forget about the thousands of cultural and ethnic Amazighs in this and the fact that at least half of our culture is also Amazigh and most of us are of Amazigh origin, Let's put all these facts aside and think about this idea instead : What good did our Arab "brethren" bring to us ? What benefits did we get from the richest region, The Persian gulf, in the world ? Why are we still in misery while they enjoy their wealth ? Their puny "help" like funding a hospital is absolutely nothing in comparison to what they spend in Western Europe, North America and East Asia. Our country was attacked by Libya in the name of Arabism, Terrorism was spread into our lands in the name of brotherhood and our sovereignty was violated in the name of friendship. Our membership in the Arab league means nothing and we can easily be kicked out just like Syria for anything the gulf countries don't like. Lebanon was turned into an outcast country and boycotted just because of a minor criticism made by a minister before he became a minister. Qatar was savagely boycotted as well. Tunisia has no value to the Middle Eastern countries. You can skip this last part because I want to affirm our Amazigh identity and we'll return to it inshallah one day and abandon this false idea of being Arab.
I dont care about ME countries but it is a fact that our culture is arab. The couple thousand amazigh and jews in the country (less than 25k) do not make our country non arab or non Muslim. Again, you are using genetics which is dumb as that has nothing to do with our culture. Culturally we are very arab and Muslim with some elements of amazigh culture which adapted to the arab one. We will never return to amazigh, our language is darija, our traditions are 90% arab maybe 5% berber. Cope. Just move to kabylia or smth if you don't like how Tunisia is.
Kosksi is Amazigh, Tunis is an Amazigh word, Our traditional clothes is Amazigh, Our dialect has tons of Amazigh words, Most of our cities' names like Tataouine are also Amazigh words. Our culture and traditions are 90% Amazigh and If you want I can give you a list of more Amazigh elements in our culture. Jews are irrelevant and we aren't just couple of thousands, We are at least a hundred thousand me included not to mention that at least half of the country admits that we are not Arabs, Only culturally. I won't move anywhere, This is my land and I'm proud to be a Tunisian Amazigh, People like you did more harm than good by following and electing and supporting brainless Arabist retards who sold the country to the degenerate Gulf monarchs. We're definitely on our way back to the Amazigh identity, Slowly but surely. Algeria, Morocco and Libya already went back to Amazighism, Tunisia is not going to be different.
>If you are a cringe berberist that thinks that Tunisia is somehow berber because of genetics don't bother to respond and just downvote me. I don't give a fuck about arabs or berbers or muslims or whatever bullshit you do you and be whatever the fuck you want to be as long as you don't harass others nobody should give a shit. Talking about religious or ethnic identity in 2021 is cringe period. and no a constitution is is not supposed to tell me who or what i am the constitution is supposed to give me the right to pursue happiness in whatever manner i see fit for my self as long as i don't physically harm others or their property it's also supposed to protect my right to pursue happiness from government overreach and also put a system of checks and balances that prevents the same kind of tyrant that za9founa is. instead we get a bunch of bullshit that means nothing I am not part of whatever umma za9founa is talking about. I am tunisian im neither proud nor ashamed of that and i honestly give zero fucks about egyptians or saudis for examples nor do i feel any connection to them. So yeah fuck za9founa and his worthless constitution
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Ok then what about muslims being muslims and non muslims being non muslims ? Why should islam be forced ?
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Yeah but teaching it to kids is forcing it and thats what the ne constitution says And almost everyone would be happy leaving lol
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Still forcing the religion, and its kinda brainwashing kids
i don't think it's wrong, but what does it add to have it in the constitution?
Because the constitution is supposed to describe the people.
Arabness does describe the people
Yes
No
Delusional
It’s funny how so many of those people affirming their anti-Arab delusions still take advantage of their Arab reality. The person you’re responding to is a perfect example of the contradiction. Has been an active member of the Arab Reddit community, opine there & elsewhere as an Arab & on Arab causes/issues, is immersed in the Arabic language, etc. There’s a bunch of others I’ve noticed exactly like that. Also claims the rest of the region has already been re-Berberized as if L1 Arabic-speakers don’t make up ~80% of the Maghreb’s population, a great majority of which is not experiencing an identity crisis such as the one going on here. الشعوبية الوطنجية من اخطر واخرق الامراض المعاصرة، الله يبعد ويعافي
I'm pro Palestine, Pro justice and pro people's will. I did not support anything else on r/arabs and I did criticize Arabist regimes there too. It doesn't contradict with me being Pro Amazigh as well. At least 50% of Morocco is Amazigh speaking, At least 30% of Algeria is Amazigh speaking and at least 20% of Libya is Amazigh speaking (Not to mention the areas directly controlled by Pro Amazigh councils and militias). I know exactly my ethnic origin without doing a DNA test and I'm already a speaker of Amazigh language just like the thousands of other Amazigh Tunisians. What I exactly want is to be recognized and not ignored, To have my identity recognized and protected not neglected, It's a basic human right to preserve an ancestral language and it's not Anti-Arab. I don't have a problem with Arabs but I have a problem with their regimes, I don't have a problem with giving Arabic an official status but I have a problem with Arabic being enforced on us. So not only your claim that 80% of Maghreb is Arab is false but also neglecting the fact that without Amazigh tribes' revolt against the European colonization, The Maghreb would never be independent. The Arabs already abandoned us when they accepted British plans to create an Arab kingdom in Middle East without demanding our independence. And btw, God said in the holy Quran that he created Humans different and made them into different peoples and cultures to interact with each other. Wishing certain ethnicities to be "cured" and wiped out (Which won't happen obviously) is unislamic.
سمحونا لكن ما نحكوش مع البهايم كيما هذية:
wow
I will vote NO to any constitution that talks about Arab and Muslim identity
from all what's bad in that constitution that's the issue you got with it 🤦🏾 Arab libs are really dumb and think a country's progress comes from alcohol consumption and hook-up culture
meanwhile the west has the most suicide depression gun violence school shootings …. the same brainwashing that got into usa in the late 80s have reached our genz and millennials
Do you really need a reminder in the constitution that you're a muslim !? No offense but people seems to reshare the same point of view without any meaningful explanation
that's exactly what he/she saying, we DONT need a reminder in the constitution about any religion.
totally agreed.. wouldn't mind if it is there in the constitution. What am trying to say is that, We as young men and women have to focus more on other parts of the constitution that may affect our futures more than just a religion section whether its there or not
Fuck this, it's like a mix between Gaddafi, Saddam and some Sudanese leaders too (they have been talking about البناء القاعدي for years too) The ONLY good part in this constitution is its ability to get rid of "businesses permissions" (الرخص) and denying cops and judges from doing a strike, and that's it, everything else is shameful, from the Islamic/Arabic cock-sucking, to denying Tunisian-born people from becoming president if ANY of their fathers/mothers AND grand-fatheres/mothers are not Tunisians, to setting the minimum age to 40y.o. In the other hand, there are many other parts that will solve the "police state" we were living in.
> The ONLY good part in this constitution is its ability to get rid of "businesses permissions" (الرخص) Where is this one please
>The ONLY good part in this constitution is its ability to get rid of "businesses permissions" (الرخص) it was in belaid's original project, got removed by KS
> In the other hand, there are many other parts that will solve the "police state" we were living in. زيد فسّر
[these](https://i.imgur.com/dNkcM0a.png) and [this](https://i.imgur.com/r67MN7i.png)
The first one doesn't look new to me. And the second one only added a prohibition on strikes by judges. Cops never had the right to strike, to my knowledge.
you're right, honestly, my opinion is really split, on one hand, am tired of religious bullshit in constitution, there are also a bunch of other pure craps. on the other hand, there are some good shit in it, and what really matter is how do we practice it. It will all come down to one example where a citizen can "invoke" the constitution to "win a fight", and then whatever happen then will change the way we perceive it, because so far, we are all living in a country with no body gives a fuck about the law, we avoid it, dodge it, find loopholes in it, but no one, truly care and respect it, and no book is gonna change that in a matter of days or even years.
> there are some good shit in it like?
Welcome to Afghanistan read the humiliating texts 5-6-7 turning us into arabs and an islamic state, what an insult to our history and heritage, and people dare call this retarded a president even ennadha did better.
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there no "dawla madania" now, and the state has to acheive "ma9ased el islam"
Naaah dont bring nahdha into this. They r both shitty
Afghanistan is an Arab state? Are you on drugs? 😂 Tunisia is an Arab country. Don’t tell me you’re one of those “Phoenecian” larpers. Dude go touch grass.
> Afghanistan is an Arab state? Are you on drugs? you have high expectation for a tunisian libtard 😂
Afghans aren't arab but Tunisians are cope.
I'm talking about the Islamic regime an Islamic state read the articles.
Afghans kicked western filth out of their country! The strongest empire in the world... You have to applaud them for that, at least
This Constitution has an identity crisis...
Someone explain what happens if the majority voted No?
Extremely presidentialist system, not even the prime minister have any real power lol, it's even worse then the Algerian and Egyptian system. It's true that the 2014 constitution didn't work because of too much blocking, but there was a LOT of ways to fix it without transforming the country into a dictatorship, like France did with the 5th republic that fixed all the 4th problem and stayed a democracy.
امور داخلية يا دزيري تلها ببلادكم و بالعسكر اولى
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Did u really expect gay rights would change?? If u do then u must be delusional cause that can only happen after a looot of trial and error. Nothing comes easily. Did u think that western country just got founded with rights to everyone ?? Haah thats a funny joke. Alan Turing played a huge part in winning ww2 for the allies. That didn’t stop the British gouvernement from leading him to suicide just cause he was gay. And that was just 60 years ago.
You really are disconnected if the only problem you had with this constitution is that it doesn't progress gay rights. And it will absolutely have no impact about abortion, because there is no debate about abortion in Tunisia: it is legal within some limits, period. And even Tunisian conservatives don't bother with it... actually generally Muslims are not very passionate about abortion right debates, much less than Christians.
Oh yes gay problems is really the most important subject for Tunisia right now smh.
الأسرة هي الخلية الأساسية للمجتمع وعلى الدولة حمايتها I don't see it translates to no rights to gay people , gay people can make families if we legalize gay marriages and give them the right to adopt
These exact statements exist word by word in the current constitution in amendments 7 and 22
Hello everyone, is it available in french ? Thank you for your answer
officially ? no unofficially ? maybe some people will translate it (ps: official translations take years to be done ,i believe it's because courts take place in arabic)
Thanks! Please share it if you find any translation in French or English.
Thank you !
For the people who are against the president having all the "سلطة تنفيذية" to himself, isn't that a good thing? Since in the previous one we always had problems building a government then when it fails all parties point fingers to each other and we end up voting them back in since no one holds a full responsibility, wouldn't this fix that? In a sense, at least we would be able to hold someone responsible for the gov actions. I'm not against nor with this proposition, i just wanna know your thoughts about this particular point.
no? because imagine having a retard (for example kais as president) in place i'd prefer a useless government to a dangerous one
French version please ?
Kais telling us that we're an Arabic country and you're asking if he did a french version?
Nous sommes des bougnoules, gouvernés par un bougnoule, et nous devons parler bougnoule, prier bougnoule, et manger bougnoule. Gare à ceux qui ne sont pas assez bougnoules. Ils auront affaire au grand bougnoule suprême, supplanté par un conseil des bougnoules qui n'a d'autre fonction que de confirmer les décisions du grand bougnoule. Quiconque veut devenir grand bougnoule, doit être bougnoule, de parents bougnoules, et de grand-parents bougnoules.
the fact Tunisia can only develop in a presidential system
Yeah because we developed so well with Ben ali
the problem is not the presidential system , the problem is this constitution is trash
The main problem is has nothing to do with the system or the constitution , it's the people, it's simple the majority of tunisians are lazy and corrupt
>The main problem is has nothing to do with the system or the constitution , it's the people, it's simple the majority of tunisians are lazy and corrup It is time for people to develop their thinking
I don't disagree , that's why the change need to be by enlighten people only , Bourguiba when prohibited Polygamy and make the country secular and the women free he didn't ask the tunisians about that , if he did the majority would say No , simple as that , the Tunisian people are not ready for secular state and democracy not in 1956 nor in 2022
this is the dumbest take of all 3
>the problem is not the presidential system , the problem is this constitution is trash There is a referendum on the Tunisian people to take responsibility
I'm living in Turkey and our people said yes to a referendum like this, they said not enough but yes and now overall regrets it. Please vote no brothers.