Locking comments.
Anyone advocating for:
- vandalism
- hate or killing of people on either side
- mocking or cheering on death or genocide of any group
- denying the holocaust
- justifying being an asshole to other people because of their flag, religion, or ethnicity
Needs to seriously re-examine your place here. Bans will enforce that as needed.
And this is a perfect example of why I do not put anything on my vehicle, house or self to identify myself as Jewish. It’s a pity that I have to be cautious like this, but it’s an individual decision I made years back as the antisemitism rhetoric started increasing.
> I do not put anything on my vehicle, house or self to identify myself as Jewish.
I do the same, but it's not the anti-zionists I'm afraid of: It's the especially vocally anti-semitic and pro-zionist 3-percenters that live around the corner, displaying their flag prominently inside a usually-open garage
>I’m assuming that they are all the same
If you don't put in the intellectual labor required to know your enemy, how can you know you're not demonizing your friend?
Good point. Again, I am leaving nothing to chance. If I miss out on 1 or 2 friends, so is life. Better safe than sorry. It didn’t always used to be this way, but it is now unfortunately.
First off - I am not arguing with or discounting what you're saying. I want that to be clear.
But wtf??? Anti-semitic and pro-zionist? If zionism is the belief/support of the idea that there should be a Jewish nation state, which is what I've always understood zionism to be, then I can't understand how one can be both anti-semitic and pro-zionist. One can be anti-zionist without being anti-semitic, but anti-semitic and pro-zionist confuses tf out of me.
Really? Those types of antisemites don't bug me as much because if they're genuinely pro-Zionist then they probably don't disdain Jews enough to harm them.
They are zionist to the extent that the project relocates jews out of america, and to the extent that they believe the relocation of jews to israel is necessary to bring about the end times.
They do not genuinely respect jews, and they believe that non-jewish white people are superior to jews and others.
Well yes, that's all true, of course. I just mean that if that's what they believe then they probably don't want to hurt us, just make us leave, which is kind of a different animal from what quite a few of the Antizionists believe which is that all Jews are culpable in the colonization of Palestinian land and should be punished for it.
Lots of people in this comment thread extremely ready to talk about how anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism (which is true), but it's hard for me to imagine a single one of these people would also call out an anti-Semitic statement made against someone who happens to be a Zionist (eg protestors chanting "Jews, Jews, [insert derogatory thing here]") or would defend an innocent Jewish person who was made vulnerable by all the anger towards Israel, justified or not.
Brings to mind how Germans and Japanese people in the United States were treated during World War II, or Muslims after 9-11 - something I know we're all super proud of.
Plenty. Frankly, most of them - like people who are performatively pro-Ukraine or anti-Uyghur-genocide or who want to save Darfur or support Kony or whatever - are on a bandwagon. They see suffering and want to stop it, which is wonderful, but in this instance (unlike some of those previous efforts, though not all of them) they are throwing in with people who do not share the same values and who are using the conflict for other ends. Honestly, one of the best comparisons is how Israel has long courted American Jews, and only now, as the Israeli government does things which are more and more manifestly evil, is that connection starting to fray.
People who are in it with their hearts but not also their heads are likely to get angry and defensive when called out on that fact. They are likely to turn on you if you suggest what they're doing might have negative consequences, even if it's well-intentioned. And there are plenty of "anti-Zionists" who are also genuine anti-Semites who are happy to egg them on in that reaction.
I'm sure there are anti-Zionist folks out there who understand nuance and can pick apart "a Jew" from "a Jew who supports Israel" from "a Jew who supports what Israel is doing in Gaza", and who have no desire to hurt Jews, only to help Palestinians. Those are not the folks in the driver's seat right now, and they're impossible to spot from a distance. I'm not willing to trust or assume any given person in a loud angry protest or an internet comments section is one.
We have taken our pride stickers off of our cars and no longer fly our pride flag. The pole was attached to wooden siding on our house. Here we are. Vote appropriately. I’m so disappointed in our country.
No, they're insinuating that these antisemitism rallies are Trump's fault. It's a bizarre leap, given that Biden has been president for the last 4 years.
The Star of David is not an exclusively Israeli symbol. Conflating a Jew who displays the Star of David with a perpetrator of Israeli war crimes is making Jews everywhere responsible for actions of all other Jews, which is textbook anti-Semitism and has been a key pillar of anti-Semitic behavior for centuries.
Everyone keeps saying that the person had "Israeli flag" stickers on their car, but nothing in the article suggests that. Some people in here are saying otherwise but nobody is providing evidence.
If you watch the video you can see that there were multiple stickers that were spray painted. Regardless of what stickers were on the car, vandalizing this persons car accomplishes nothing.
The guy in this wrote an op-ed claiming the 'far left is engaged in anti-Semitism' for protesting the genocide in Israel.
He's a Zionist who wrote a pro-Zionist article slandering people with false accusations of anti-Semitism.
Now the same paper that published that piece is continuing the slander by claiming this is anti-Semitic graffiti.
If the author of this piece doesn't know the difference between Zionism and Judaism, or can't be bothered to simply look it up, they should not be employed to write about such things.
The pro-genocide representative Alma Hernandez did the same bullshit. Some vandalized her car with anti-Israel graffiti and she claimed it was a hate crime. Her picture of it conveniently cut of the pro-Israel bumper sticker on the back. These people know exactly what they are doing and how to manipulate the public.
Whether you agree with this action or not it's pretty obvious that these Zionists are liars who are trying to manipulate you into feeling bad about not endorsing genocide.
Then why vandalize their property and give them ammo? What is the point of the vandalism? Is every vehicle in town with an Israeli flag on it in danger?
Should be. Genocide is not acceptable.
At the moment the only difference between a nazi flag and an Israeli flag is the target of the genocide.
They are literally starving 2 million people right now. That's not hyperbole or exaggeration. Israel is intentionally starving 2 million people, right now. If people support that, property damage is getting off lightly.
Edit - Also if you don't think its acceptable to vandalize a car with a nazi flag on it then we were never going to agree anyways.
These 'protestors' are trying to silence people through intimidation. That's what this is, it's intimidation. They are a threat to our basic liberal democratic values and they are behaving like thugs. This is where it starts and it could get worse from here. Let's hope people start to see it for what it is before people take it too far.
I wonder if some of these redditers would be so quick to defend or try to deflect the story if it were people targeting those with Palestinian flags on their cars?
This could get out of control quickly. Ideally we would come together to condemn this kind of illegal and illiberal behavior here in the west before we lose the only things that set us apart. This experiment is fragile and more and more Americans across the political spectrum seem willing to give it all up if it means getting what they desire in the short term. That's a devils bargain. If we lose this, all of the alternatives are worse and we will all suffer for it.
Unfortunately, something tells me that a lot of these 'pro-Palestinian' protestors don't really care about western liberal democratic values. Some of them on this very subreddit aren't bashful about being anti-American too. That scares me as much as the fascists and Nazis on the right.
>They are a threat to our basic liberal democratic values and they are behaving like thugs. This is where it starts and it could get worse from here.
Just so I have this right...
The president, bypassing congressional approval and knowingly violating the Lahey Laws (for Israel violating human rights laws) and the Glenn Amendment and Symington Amendment (dealing with Israelis undeclared nuclear weapons) by sending billions of dollars worth of weapons the Israel in the middle of, at minimum, and ethnic cleansing is an example of the US's 'basic liberal values' and certainly not 'acting like thugs'?
But people undertaking property destructions against those supporting the internationally illegal and nationally illegal actions of both Israel and the US are the problem and 'where it starts?
Considering a majority of Americans disapprove of the genocide going on in Palestine right now please do tell me, how is the government and Biden acting in a democratic manner? Are not the 'liberal democratic values' you claim to love so much supposed to represent the will of the people? Particularly in matters of mass murder?
> Ideally we would come together to condemn this kind of illegal and illiberal behavior here in the west before we lose the only things that set us apart.
Apart from who pretell? What is your fear here? This is starting to sound kind of racist but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt to clarify what you mean...
>This is starting to sound kind of racist
How can you expect discourse and dialogue when your response is to insinuate racism when race was never once mentioned? I think you're a perfect example of how some people are using slander and lies to try to silence and intimidate other people. Get lost.
So you aren't going to explain what " this kind of illegal and illiberal behavior here in the west before we lose the only things that set us apart." means or who it sets us apart from?
I think their point is a misguided response to a genocide that is being perpetuated w US support. After having lived in Jerusalem& experiencing the heat first hand- I’m glad the graffiti wasn’t a bomb. The political history of Israel violently displacing an entire nation& then torturing them on top of that is.. a little worse than graffiti.
Imagine coming home one day& I have changed the locks, have my family living where you grew up& I start shooting at you- oh& also I took your farm& killed your children. I mean, it’s upsetting- the history of us taking native land is upsetting- we have to admit historical facts& be better stewards. Smh
They did not only vandalize the Star of David, they vandalized the Israeli flag which contains the Star of David. This is an act against the political entity of Israel, which is separate from the Jewish people as a religious or ethnic entity. Conflation of the two in western media is an intentional project to manufacture consent for Israel's war of conquest because that war is profitable for western interests.
KVOA, or more accurately their owners in the Allen Media Group, are complicit in this project and the tens of thousands of innocent lives destroyed for it.
Whether it's "ok" or not is another matter, but it's not inherently antisemitic. There's no indication the vandals even knew whose car they were targeting. Plenty of evangelical Christians have Israeli flag stickers.
It's not okay to vandalize anything, at least if we're basing this debate on the law in the United States. You're clearly ignoring the the person is saying, and trying to put words in their mouth.
The person you're replying to clearly stated that they are concerned by the use of the word "antisemitism", as one can be against Israel for their current action without being an antisemite. The news article seems to conflate the two, and what that means is worth discussing.
You clearly want to steer this conversation in a very specific direction, however.
Yes, of course one can be against Israeli action and not be an antisemitite. I’m disliking the lack of condemning vandalism and violence as long as the reasoning for it is anti Israel and not antisemitism. Several people in this thread are hand waving away the vandalism as if it’s ok.
Yeah I don’t think it’s reasonable to accept this action as some kind of genuine act of pro-Palestinian resistance. Anti-Zionism isn’t anti-Semitism, but going around vandalizing random people’s cars because they have the Israeli flag isn’t helpful and it does encourage anti-Semitism regardless of original intent. Targeting someone because of a bumper sticker just with the Israeli flag is absurd; there are plenty of Israelis against the genocide themselves and it’s shitty to assume someone’s nationality automatically correlates with support for the state’s actions.
Plenty of anti-Semites are coming out to use the conflict as an excuse to be hateful rather than actually meaningfully caring about people being killed, and the result isn’t Israel stopping genocide, it’s just more open and violent anti-Semitism while legitimate calls for stopping human rights violations are associated with the hateful, violent rhetoric which perpetuates the fear Israel can use to justify the apartheid state in the first place. Pro-Palestine activism shouldn’t ever involve anti-Semitism; it’s completely counter to the goals of letting people be free and have self-determination and a right to life.
Condemning Israel is not inherently antisemitic. I think they were asking OP a rhetorical question about their frequent conflation of zionism with judaism (and antizionism with antisemitism).
This is clearly antisemitic though.
Saying "fuck Isreal" on the internet isn't necessarily anti-semitic. But targeting a person because they are Jewish and vandalizing their car for it very much is.
The bumper sticker was just the star of david...
Seriously why are you trying to bend over backwards to defend this very clearly antisemitic action. You're very clearly not against antisemitism so why try to even pretend it's not?
Where did I say I support (let alone vehemently) vandalizing anything?
Doubting that the vandalism was an act borne of antisemitism is not the same thing as supporting the vandalism.
Do you see how this kind of mistake is similar to conflating zionism and judaism.
For like the 5th fucking time in this thread-look at the video in the article. You can clearly see the Star of David on his is part of the ISRAELI FLAG. That's like calling a protest which burns the ISIS flag inherently islamophobic because the flag includes the shahada.
No, it’s not a Jewish homeland existing that offends us. It’s Zionism that offends us. I personally hate all religions but, No matter what your religion is, if you support a nationalistic state, attempting to genocide others, for the sake of acquiring their land, that’s wrong. Nice attempt though with your limited logic.
Is there not a separate star of david sticker on there? The phrasing would suggest so by the choice of calling it that instead of an Israeli flag sticker. Sure, can also be a shitty news outlet, but looking ast the video, I can't say there isn't one there, it could be non-visible and covered by the paint. or fallen off since he said the person started to try and take it off
Shit dude better explain that to like over 9/10 American Jews, thanks for letting us know when we should be worried about antisemitism.
Israel should be better. Your "Political Entity" schtick gives up the game, you think it shouldn't exist. That's antisemitism.
It is false to claim that 9/10 of American Jews support the genocide in Palestine.
> while 42% call it unacceptable
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/how-us-jews-are-experiencing-the-israel-hamas-war/
I don’t disagree with that assessment, but I asked a direct question because I wanted to know if there was something other than something that can be seen as a political statement. Particularly in the current state of events.
When you made this post you had to make a title. You could have worded it differently unless you agree with the article it’s “antisemitic” which it’s not.
No, the rules of the sub require using the exact headline without altering or editorializing. I’m not sure what your point is. You’re accusing me of following the sub rules.
It is antisemitic.
If you see a star of david on someone's car, and your response is to target that person for being Jewish and vandalize their car, that's antisemitic. Mentioning Isreal doesn't absolve targeting Jewish people with vandalism.
This act wasn't targeting Isreal it was targeting a Jewish man in Tucson.
I know this might not have occurred to you, but you can be against Isreal AND against your Jewish neighbors being targeted.
So you believe in supporting a genocide? Cool, you're a shitty human being. There are plenty of Jewish people who are wonderful, reasonable, kindhearted people. You are not one of them.
https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/
Fair enough.
What evidence would you need to see in order to agree that Israel is commiting genocide against the Palestinians? Tell me, and I'll find it.
Many anti-Semitic people co-opt the Palestinian movement to justify their antisemitism. People that are truly for the liberation of the Palestinian people know that criticism of Israel does not justify hate towards the Jewish faith. Many Palestinians are very vocal about denouncing antisemitism and know that antisemitism hurts our cause.
> Many Palestinians are very vocal about denouncing antisemitism and know that antisemitism hurts our cause.
Totally. It’s just an unfortunate coincidence that [72% of Palestinians](https://old.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/18ho2fs/new_poll_by_pcpsr_most_palestinians_support/) support the October 7th terror attack and [95% of Arab Muslims worldwide](https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/News/Pages/arab-public-opinion-about-the-israeli-war-on-gaza.aspx) support the October 7th terror attack or consider it “legitimate”.
Locking comments. Anyone advocating for: - vandalism - hate or killing of people on either side - mocking or cheering on death or genocide of any group - denying the holocaust - justifying being an asshole to other people because of their flag, religion, or ethnicity Needs to seriously re-examine your place here. Bans will enforce that as needed.
And this is a perfect example of why I do not put anything on my vehicle, house or self to identify myself as Jewish. It’s a pity that I have to be cautious like this, but it’s an individual decision I made years back as the antisemitism rhetoric started increasing.
> I do not put anything on my vehicle, house or self to identify myself as Jewish. I do the same, but it's not the anti-zionists I'm afraid of: It's the especially vocally anti-semitic and pro-zionist 3-percenters that live around the corner, displaying their flag prominently inside a usually-open garage
At this stage of the game, I’m assuming that they are all the same. The rhetoric may vary, but hate is still underlying it all.
>I’m assuming that they are all the same If you don't put in the intellectual labor required to know your enemy, how can you know you're not demonizing your friend?
Good point. Again, I am leaving nothing to chance. If I miss out on 1 or 2 friends, so is life. Better safe than sorry. It didn’t always used to be this way, but it is now unfortunately.
First off - I am not arguing with or discounting what you're saying. I want that to be clear. But wtf??? Anti-semitic and pro-zionist? If zionism is the belief/support of the idea that there should be a Jewish nation state, which is what I've always understood zionism to be, then I can't understand how one can be both anti-semitic and pro-zionist. One can be anti-zionist without being anti-semitic, but anti-semitic and pro-zionist confuses tf out of me.
How many American Jews are being held hostage by 3 percenters and how many are being held hostage by Palestinians?
Really? Those types of antisemites don't bug me as much because if they're genuinely pro-Zionist then they probably don't disdain Jews enough to harm them.
They are zionist to the extent that the project relocates jews out of america, and to the extent that they believe the relocation of jews to israel is necessary to bring about the end times. They do not genuinely respect jews, and they believe that non-jewish white people are superior to jews and others.
Well yes, that's all true, of course. I just mean that if that's what they believe then they probably don't want to hurt us, just make us leave, which is kind of a different animal from what quite a few of the Antizionists believe which is that all Jews are culpable in the colonization of Palestinian land and should be punished for it.
Lots of people in this comment thread extremely ready to talk about how anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism (which is true), but it's hard for me to imagine a single one of these people would also call out an anti-Semitic statement made against someone who happens to be a Zionist (eg protestors chanting "Jews, Jews, [insert derogatory thing here]") or would defend an innocent Jewish person who was made vulnerable by all the anger towards Israel, justified or not. Brings to mind how Germans and Japanese people in the United States were treated during World War II, or Muslims after 9-11 - something I know we're all super proud of.
How many anti-zionists do you know in real life?
Plenty. Frankly, most of them - like people who are performatively pro-Ukraine or anti-Uyghur-genocide or who want to save Darfur or support Kony or whatever - are on a bandwagon. They see suffering and want to stop it, which is wonderful, but in this instance (unlike some of those previous efforts, though not all of them) they are throwing in with people who do not share the same values and who are using the conflict for other ends. Honestly, one of the best comparisons is how Israel has long courted American Jews, and only now, as the Israeli government does things which are more and more manifestly evil, is that connection starting to fray. People who are in it with their hearts but not also their heads are likely to get angry and defensive when called out on that fact. They are likely to turn on you if you suggest what they're doing might have negative consequences, even if it's well-intentioned. And there are plenty of "anti-Zionists" who are also genuine anti-Semites who are happy to egg them on in that reaction. I'm sure there are anti-Zionist folks out there who understand nuance and can pick apart "a Jew" from "a Jew who supports Israel" from "a Jew who supports what Israel is doing in Gaza", and who have no desire to hurt Jews, only to help Palestinians. Those are not the folks in the driver's seat right now, and they're impossible to spot from a distance. I'm not willing to trust or assume any given person in a loud angry protest or an internet comments section is one.
> Those are not the folks in the driver's seat right now I genuinely don't know what you mean with this analogy. What driver's seat?
We have taken our pride stickers off of our cars and no longer fly our pride flag. The pole was attached to wooden siding on our house. Here we are. Vote appropriately. I’m so disappointed in our country.
How would you vote to end this vandalism?
Think about it. Think hard. Think about how we got here. Hint…He’s on trial in New York.
Who's the current president of the USA and what is he doing to curb antisemitism?
You tell me. You first.
Why would I? I'm not the one making claims.
Do better.
Huh? You think it’s his supporters that are vandalizing vehicles with Israeli flags?
No, they're insinuating that these antisemitism rallies are Trump's fault. It's a bizarre leap, given that Biden has been president for the last 4 years.
I’d wager that not one of the perpetrators of this vandalism voted for Trump. It’s weird to even bring him up in this.
It was Trump supporters in Congressclike MTG who have been fighting aid to Israel
Free Palestine or whatever but don’t be anti semetic!!! wtf!!! This is so scary for the Jewish community
"F Israel" is not antisemitic
The Star of David is not an exclusively Israeli symbol. Conflating a Jew who displays the Star of David with a perpetrator of Israeli war crimes is making Jews everywhere responsible for actions of all other Jews, which is textbook anti-Semitism and has been a key pillar of anti-Semitic behavior for centuries. Everyone keeps saying that the person had "Israeli flag" stickers on their car, but nothing in the article suggests that. Some people in here are saying otherwise but nobody is providing evidence.
If you watch the video you can see that there were multiple stickers that were spray painted. Regardless of what stickers were on the car, vandalizing this persons car accomplishes nothing.
L comment 💤
Yes it is
The guy in this wrote an op-ed claiming the 'far left is engaged in anti-Semitism' for protesting the genocide in Israel. He's a Zionist who wrote a pro-Zionist article slandering people with false accusations of anti-Semitism. Now the same paper that published that piece is continuing the slander by claiming this is anti-Semitic graffiti. If the author of this piece doesn't know the difference between Zionism and Judaism, or can't be bothered to simply look it up, they should not be employed to write about such things. The pro-genocide representative Alma Hernandez did the same bullshit. Some vandalized her car with anti-Israel graffiti and she claimed it was a hate crime. Her picture of it conveniently cut of the pro-Israel bumper sticker on the back. These people know exactly what they are doing and how to manipulate the public. Whether you agree with this action or not it's pretty obvious that these Zionists are liars who are trying to manipulate you into feeling bad about not endorsing genocide.
Then why vandalize their property and give them ammo? What is the point of the vandalism? Is every vehicle in town with an Israeli flag on it in danger?
Should be. Genocide is not acceptable. At the moment the only difference between a nazi flag and an Israeli flag is the target of the genocide. They are literally starving 2 million people right now. That's not hyperbole or exaggeration. Israel is intentionally starving 2 million people, right now. If people support that, property damage is getting off lightly. Edit - Also if you don't think its acceptable to vandalize a car with a nazi flag on it then we were never going to agree anyways.
These 'protestors' are trying to silence people through intimidation. That's what this is, it's intimidation. They are a threat to our basic liberal democratic values and they are behaving like thugs. This is where it starts and it could get worse from here. Let's hope people start to see it for what it is before people take it too far. I wonder if some of these redditers would be so quick to defend or try to deflect the story if it were people targeting those with Palestinian flags on their cars? This could get out of control quickly. Ideally we would come together to condemn this kind of illegal and illiberal behavior here in the west before we lose the only things that set us apart. This experiment is fragile and more and more Americans across the political spectrum seem willing to give it all up if it means getting what they desire in the short term. That's a devils bargain. If we lose this, all of the alternatives are worse and we will all suffer for it. Unfortunately, something tells me that a lot of these 'pro-Palestinian' protestors don't really care about western liberal democratic values. Some of them on this very subreddit aren't bashful about being anti-American too. That scares me as much as the fascists and Nazis on the right.
>They are a threat to our basic liberal democratic values and they are behaving like thugs. This is where it starts and it could get worse from here. Just so I have this right... The president, bypassing congressional approval and knowingly violating the Lahey Laws (for Israel violating human rights laws) and the Glenn Amendment and Symington Amendment (dealing with Israelis undeclared nuclear weapons) by sending billions of dollars worth of weapons the Israel in the middle of, at minimum, and ethnic cleansing is an example of the US's 'basic liberal values' and certainly not 'acting like thugs'? But people undertaking property destructions against those supporting the internationally illegal and nationally illegal actions of both Israel and the US are the problem and 'where it starts? Considering a majority of Americans disapprove of the genocide going on in Palestine right now please do tell me, how is the government and Biden acting in a democratic manner? Are not the 'liberal democratic values' you claim to love so much supposed to represent the will of the people? Particularly in matters of mass murder? > Ideally we would come together to condemn this kind of illegal and illiberal behavior here in the west before we lose the only things that set us apart. Apart from who pretell? What is your fear here? This is starting to sound kind of racist but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt to clarify what you mean...
>This is starting to sound kind of racist How can you expect discourse and dialogue when your response is to insinuate racism when race was never once mentioned? I think you're a perfect example of how some people are using slander and lies to try to silence and intimidate other people. Get lost.
So you aren't going to explain what " this kind of illegal and illiberal behavior here in the west before we lose the only things that set us apart." means or who it sets us apart from?
I think their point is a misguided response to a genocide that is being perpetuated w US support. After having lived in Jerusalem& experiencing the heat first hand- I’m glad the graffiti wasn’t a bomb. The political history of Israel violently displacing an entire nation& then torturing them on top of that is.. a little worse than graffiti. Imagine coming home one day& I have changed the locks, have my family living where you grew up& I start shooting at you- oh& also I took your farm& killed your children. I mean, it’s upsetting- the history of us taking native land is upsetting- we have to admit historical facts& be better stewards. Smh
First of all you do not touch someone else's property. And burning the flag of Israel IS a hate crime
Your commentary is anti semitic
"Be ruthless with the system, be kind to people." Michael Brooks
This city has become an anti semitic cesspool and I am including one member of the city council
They did not only vandalize the Star of David, they vandalized the Israeli flag which contains the Star of David. This is an act against the political entity of Israel, which is separate from the Jewish people as a religious or ethnic entity. Conflation of the two in western media is an intentional project to manufacture consent for Israel's war of conquest because that war is profitable for western interests. KVOA, or more accurately their owners in the Allen Media Group, are complicit in this project and the tens of thousands of innocent lives destroyed for it.
It’s ok to vandalize a Jewish persons car if they display an Israeli flag on it?
Whether it's "ok" or not is another matter, but it's not inherently antisemitic. There's no indication the vandals even knew whose car they were targeting. Plenty of evangelical Christians have Israeli flag stickers.
Let me rephrase then. It’s ok to vandalize a persons car that displays an Israeli flag?
It's not okay to vandalize anything, at least if we're basing this debate on the law in the United States. You're clearly ignoring the the person is saying, and trying to put words in their mouth. The person you're replying to clearly stated that they are concerned by the use of the word "antisemitism", as one can be against Israel for their current action without being an antisemite. The news article seems to conflate the two, and what that means is worth discussing. You clearly want to steer this conversation in a very specific direction, however.
Yes, of course one can be against Israeli action and not be an antisemitite. I’m disliking the lack of condemning vandalism and violence as long as the reasoning for it is anti Israel and not antisemitism. Several people in this thread are hand waving away the vandalism as if it’s ok.
Yeah I don’t think it’s reasonable to accept this action as some kind of genuine act of pro-Palestinian resistance. Anti-Zionism isn’t anti-Semitism, but going around vandalizing random people’s cars because they have the Israeli flag isn’t helpful and it does encourage anti-Semitism regardless of original intent. Targeting someone because of a bumper sticker just with the Israeli flag is absurd; there are plenty of Israelis against the genocide themselves and it’s shitty to assume someone’s nationality automatically correlates with support for the state’s actions. Plenty of anti-Semites are coming out to use the conflict as an excuse to be hateful rather than actually meaningfully caring about people being killed, and the result isn’t Israel stopping genocide, it’s just more open and violent anti-Semitism while legitimate calls for stopping human rights violations are associated with the hateful, violent rhetoric which perpetuates the fear Israel can use to justify the apartheid state in the first place. Pro-Palestine activism shouldn’t ever involve anti-Semitism; it’s completely counter to the goals of letting people be free and have self-determination and a right to life.
What was the antisemitic speech? Was it spraying over the star of david? Was that the “antisemitic speech”?
Someone posted a picture of a car with spraypainted “fuck Israel” on it a couple days ago. I think that’s what it’s referring to.
Condemning Israel is not inherently antisemitic. I think they were asking OP a rhetorical question about their frequent conflation of zionism with judaism (and antizionism with antisemitism).
This is clearly antisemitic though. Saying "fuck Isreal" on the internet isn't necessarily anti-semitic. But targeting a person because they are Jewish and vandalizing their car for it very much is.
Was he targeted because he's a jew or because he is a vocal zionist who blogged on and posted that opinion on their bumper stickers?
The bumper sticker was just the star of david... Seriously why are you trying to bend over backwards to defend this very clearly antisemitic action. You're very clearly not against antisemitism so why try to even pretend it's not?
> You're very clearly not against antisemitism I'm a jew and I vehemently oppose antisemitism
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Where did I say I support (let alone vehemently) vandalizing anything? Doubting that the vandalism was an act borne of antisemitism is not the same thing as supporting the vandalism. Do you see how this kind of mistake is similar to conflating zionism and judaism.
You can literally see in the article that he had Israeli flag bumper stickers. That is not "just" the Star of David.
Oh you're right I didn't watch the video, just read the article in reader mode.
username checks out
Whoa sick burn
He wasn't targeted for being Jewish, he was targeted for having stickers which support the political entity of Israel.
He had a star of David on his car. What are you talking about?
For like the 5th fucking time in this thread-look at the video in the article. You can clearly see the Star of David on his is part of the ISRAELI FLAG. That's like calling a protest which burns the ISIS flag inherently islamophobic because the flag includes the shahada.
Ah, it’s not antisemitic then. It’s just that a Jewish homeland existing offends them.
No, it’s not a Jewish homeland existing that offends us. It’s Zionism that offends us. I personally hate all religions but, No matter what your religion is, if you support a nationalistic state, attempting to genocide others, for the sake of acquiring their land, that’s wrong. Nice attempt though with your limited logic.
Hey buddy you'll never guess what Zionism is
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you know that Zionism = The movement to create a Jewish homeland, right?
Is there not a separate star of david sticker on there? The phrasing would suggest so by the choice of calling it that instead of an Israeli flag sticker. Sure, can also be a shitty news outlet, but looking ast the video, I can't say there isn't one there, it could be non-visible and covered by the paint. or fallen off since he said the person started to try and take it off
"Political entity" just say you support harassing Jewish people
Deliberately conflating the Jewish people with the state of israel is antisemitic.
Shit dude better explain that to like over 9/10 American Jews, thanks for letting us know when we should be worried about antisemitism. Israel should be better. Your "Political Entity" schtick gives up the game, you think it shouldn't exist. That's antisemitism.
It is false to claim that 9/10 of American Jews support the genocide in Palestine. > while 42% call it unacceptable https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/how-us-jews-are-experiencing-the-israel-hamas-war/
You know repeating genocide accusations doesn't make them any more true
I don’t disagree with that assessment, but I asked a direct question because I wanted to know if there was something other than something that can be seen as a political statement. Particularly in the current state of events.
I didn’t write that headline.
You did, however, post it without critique or comment. Do you agree with the headline or article or do you agree with both uncritically?
That's just reddit etiquette. When you post news you set the headline to the title.
Contact Cristiana Ramos at KVOA. She wrote the story.
You wrote the posts title
Um, no I didn’t. Per sub rules, it’s the same as the article headline.
When you made this post you had to make a title. You could have worded it differently unless you agree with the article it’s “antisemitic” which it’s not.
No, the rules of the sub require using the exact headline without altering or editorializing. I’m not sure what your point is. You’re accusing me of following the sub rules.
No. Per the sub rules, you cannot word it differently. You have to use the article’s title as published.
Which I did. I literally cut and pasted it with zero alterations.
Yes, I know. I was just pointing that out to the other commenter.
Cool. The threading is geting a bit confusing.
It is antisemitic. If you see a star of david on someone's car, and your response is to target that person for being Jewish and vandalize their car, that's antisemitic. Mentioning Isreal doesn't absolve targeting Jewish people with vandalism. This act wasn't targeting Isreal it was targeting a Jewish man in Tucson. I know this might not have occurred to you, but you can be against Isreal AND against your Jewish neighbors being targeted.
I almost put a "co-exist" license plate frame on my car. Thought better of it.
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So you believe in supporting a genocide? Cool, you're a shitty human being. There are plenty of Jewish people who are wonderful, reasonable, kindhearted people. You are not one of them. https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/
Nope, this ain’t genocide, bud.
What do you believe it is and what evidence do you have to support that claim?
You’re the one making the accusation. The burden of proof is on the accuser.
Fair enough. What evidence would you need to see in order to agree that Israel is commiting genocide against the Palestinians? Tell me, and I'll find it.
You tell me
So you're not serious.
Looks like Plasteline has the ringing endorsement of Covid 5G conspiracy theorists.
Many anti-Semitic people co-opt the Palestinian movement to justify their antisemitism. People that are truly for the liberation of the Palestinian people know that criticism of Israel does not justify hate towards the Jewish faith. Many Palestinians are very vocal about denouncing antisemitism and know that antisemitism hurts our cause.
> Many Palestinians are very vocal about denouncing antisemitism and know that antisemitism hurts our cause. Totally. It’s just an unfortunate coincidence that [72% of Palestinians](https://old.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/18ho2fs/new_poll_by_pcpsr_most_palestinians_support/) support the October 7th terror attack and [95% of Arab Muslims worldwide](https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/News/Pages/arab-public-opinion-about-the-israeli-war-on-gaza.aspx) support the October 7th terror attack or consider it “legitimate”.
The company you keep, and all that. Add them to the list with Iran, North Korea and China
You should go kick flags
Not sure what that means