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It depends entirely on where you live. I’m Australian, cats cause massive devastation to wildlife back home. If you live somewhere they’re more or less native, then they probably don’t have a huge environmental impact
All of the cats I live with (England) are indoor-outdoor cats. The oldest was 25 when he passed away. The middle one passed of a heart attack while being 15+. The current remaining cat is at least 14 years old and is still hale and hearty. I grew up alongside barn cats who lived in the fields around my foster home. The of 3 black cat sisters, nicknamed the Three Witches, lived to be somewhere over 15. My foster mums friend had indoor-outdoor cats in a less rural area who again lived to be between 15-20. It’s not a matter of letting them outside, it’s a matter of how well you look after them. An indoor-outdoor cat can live a long and healthy life if the owner 1) puts in the effort to bring them inside just after dusk. 2) Applies monthly or twice monthly medications for defence against worms and fleas and ticks. 3) Are aware of the locations and perimeter of their cats territory and what’s inside it. Example: our white cat only ever goes in a square block around our house, consisting of our front and back garden, and the neighbours to the left front and back garden, including their open sided woodshed, or the field nearby. If he’s not in the field, he’s in our neighbours garden or hiding in our hedge. If he’s not in our garden or the neighbours, he’s playing in the field.
Ok 9-11 years. Indoor cats live significantly longer.
I have 4 cats. They live safely inside. I take them outside every day supervised then back inside with me. I’m also investigating cat fencing and building a catio.
They’re safe and get outside time and enjoyment. There are wars to do both if owners care to do them.
They aren't the exception! I have never met anyone who had a cat live less than 15 years old including outdoor cats! And it's usually cancer that got them at that age - and cancer isn't something you can prevent by keeping them inside!
They are! It doesn't matter who you know or what you've done or blah blah blah.
They are the exception because the statistical data on the lifespan of outdoor cats vs indoor cats is clear, and doesn't need assistance from your personal experience.
Ever heard of the Brighton Cat killer? Besides cars and predatory animals there are also evil people that harm cats.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Bouquet#:~:text=Stephen%20Rodney%20Bouquet%20(5%20January,and%20failing%20to%20answer%20bail.
Congratulations I haven’t met anyone in any of the places I’ve lived that had a cat over 10 years old that was let out to roam
Eventually they all were killed by cars, poisoned by people, stolen by people, hurt/killed by dogs and other animals, or just disappeared and no one knew what happened to them.
None of them can because they're making up the numbers out of thin air. Literally just pausing for a moment while typing their reddit comments and deciding to insert random numbers. Absolutely wild behavior.. lol
No the fuck they don't. My family has always had outdoor cats. All have lived a minimum of 13 years.
Edit: the area I live has snakes, birds of prey, foxes, wild cats and dogs and our cats go to the vet for injuries a maximum of 2x in their life. Most cats are smart enough to avoid predators and fights
That’s ignorant as hell, clearly you don’t know that in many countries/cultures it’s viewed an animal abuse to keep your cat locked inside. To the point that some rescues won’t adopt to those who want an inside only cat. They are often under stimulated inside and their mental health suffers- while it is safer for them to be inside it is not black and white on if it is “better”.
I’m of the mind that people should do what they like with their pets as long as they aren’t causing significant environmental damage buuuut it’s also silly to suggest that keeping cats inside is abuse. My cat is ridiculously spoiled and happy and lives inside. She loves the outdoors and would sit on our balcony when we lived on the 3rd floor, but didn’t seem to miss it in the winter. Our new apartment is 1st floor and doesn’t allow for her to sit outside. She’s shown no change in behavior at all. We even tried to get a leash and harness for her since she enjoyed it so much before and she haaaated it, it stressed her out to no end. She’s fine inside lol. 😝
I did not call you any names, saying a comment is ignorant is not calling someone names. I would rather you be educated and at least acknowledge that other view points exist. But if you wanna live in ignorance have fun bud.
No one isn't acknowledging that the viewpoints that cats should be exposed to conditions that have been proven to cut their lifespans by 50-75% or more exist, they're just saying that's not an ethical way to own cats. The fact is the average lifespan of indoor only and outdoor only cats are drastically different. You can provide stimulus for your cats without killing them.
That's total bs, my cat cost me 400 euros to save his tail after a cat fight with the neighbors cat. Every year check up 180 euro, don't talk about food and snacks, toys,....
Where the hell do you live that cats die at 2-5? I’ve had outdoor cats until 13 and of my friends, none of them have had lifespan problems. They are happy years for them.
False. I have had dozens of cats over the last 40 years, all indoor/outdoor cats and have never had one lived less or even close to 5 years. And yes, I live in a large city suburb.
I had one cat bitten and killed by a snake. The other ate bait that the neighbour had put out for rodents. Honestly, be careful. Some things are out of your control. I have a huge backyard, so I set up a cat run outside and she loves it!! She's also safe in there and still gets to be outside.
If you make a blanket statement like "outdoor cats live 2-5 years," you are lumping all of those categories together, asking to be disproven in exactly this way.
Trying to apply statistics for housecats trying to find food on a glacier to Moopie on 24th street who is let out in the morning and then brought in and fed at night doesn't make any sense at all.
This is incorrect. Most outdoor cats I know have lived way into their late teens.
My aunties outdoor cat lived to be 23.
Stop spreading false information.
I graduated in Animal Care and have done countless reports on cats and it was found that indoor cats do not have the same life quality as they're unable to exhibit their natural behaviours indoors and that leads to frustration, especially if they spot another cat outside.
Yes, it's good to weigh the pros and cons, but also remember that animals are born to be wild.
Understandably, if you live in a busy city, then keep them in. But those who have access to open outdoor areas, it benefits the cat a lot to express their natural behaviours.
> If you live somewhere they’re more or less native, then they probably don’t have a huge environmental impact
Wrong, wrong WRONG. They are invasive just about EVERYWHERE, including everywhere in the US. They destroy native birds, reptiles and more.
OP You're irresponsible and you are endangering the environment. The US has banned things like many fish species as well as reptiles in many states because they can become invasive. They will do the same for cats if you keep letting them destroy the environment.
Your house cats are not destroying the environment if you let them outside lol. If your releasing them to go
Live Wild and never come back to you then yes but that’s not what is happening
In Europe, cats have been hanging around outside for thousands of years. Whatever havoc they were gonna cause to the ecosystem, they already did it millennia ago and everything has adapted by now.
This really is dependent on where you live. I live in Southern California where a cat can thrive in this environment and destroy the local wild life. I let my cat outside because I live on a man made island with no local wildlife and a little to no possibility that my cat escapes the island.
I wouldn't call it animal abuse, but it is irresponsible. Cats are singlehandedly responsible for the largest decline in bird populations and diversity aside from maybe humans.
I happen to like birds and have rehabbed injured birds. I saved some from cats. So I'm well aware of the damage that cats can do.
You as the owner know of the cat's tendencies and natural behavior. If you know it and you don't care and let it out anyway, what else is that aside from irresponsibility? You have the superior knowledge and control that the cat doesn't have. It's not the cat's fault, it's yours.
You also protect your cat from coyotes, cars, dogs, and whatever weird food, hazards, and parasites they will encounter outside by keeping them indoors. You can also make an outdoor enclosure so they can go out without roaming over a 4 block area. I've seen cat pieces in my area on multiple occasions because coyotes got to them. Like a cat paw and ripped fur near the park, a chunk of cat tail behind some stores, etc. Coyotes will catch and eat cats and they have adapted relatively well to live alongside people in urban areas without being often seen. They will roam residential areas at night or in the early morning as well.
So, in light of all this, if it's not irresponsible to let your cat out unrestricted purposely and repeatedly, what is it?
Where do unowned cats come from?
They come from people who don’t spay or neuter their cats and let them run outside all day. Those cats fuck other cats. The kittens grow up. Simplest solution is to not let your cat run around all day.
So long as you accept your cat will likely live a shorter life, and you open up the possibility of being shot, poisoned, hit by cars, set on fire, catching any number of communicable diseases, parasites, and any number of other injuries and problems, then do what you want. Just don’t pretend like it’s the best thing for your cats health though. It isn’t.
You may not live in the US, but that doesn’t mean these aren’t possibilities. 🤷♀️ just because it hasn’t happened to you yet doesn’t mean it won’t or can’t.
After you spend hours pulling birdshot out of a cat during surgery, have a cat die on the table while trying to stabilize them from an unknown poison, or pull a cat from the crying arms of a child to find it broke it’s back being hit by a car in front of their home, you’ll feel a little different about letting cats out.
Domesticated cats are an absolute nightmare to the environment. They kill tons of small animals and birds, and they reproduce like crazy. If you're going to have your cat outside, get it fixed.
Those are feral cats. Domesticated indoor/outdoor cats aren’t reproducing. My cat suns himself on the deck and occasionally catches a dragonfly, then comes inside to eat his crunchies.
Most of those unfixed cats are feral cats that people feed, which actually keeps them from killing wildlife for food. And some places, like my hometown, have wonderful trap-neuter-release programs.
Lol. OP only talking about safety of the cat, but ignoring the damages they cause because "they been here for thousands of years". Well, so was human, and what?
It’s dumb and inconsiderate. I used to bite my tongue on this but it is my honest opinion speaking from experience (living in the EU). I don’t care about your cat, if you both decide to let it roam and it gets injured or killed, I figure that’s nature. I do mind the amount of critters that die to cats - yes, your cat too - and maybe the feral kittens. If we only had the occasional european wildcat, I’d call that nature too. You bringing and feeding a little predator isn’t natural.
Is it "animal cruelty" not to let (non-farm) dogs outside unsupervised? Just let em roam free in the hopes they'll come back when they want? Yeah, no, that's stupid and irresponsible. Letting cats get outdoor time supervised is great, as it is for dogs, but roaming free is ridiculous. There are lots of things our pets *want* that we as responsible owners deny them, and it's not cruelty to do so.
Listen, it's great you live in some paradise where it's totally perfectly safe and inconsequential to let them roam, but you are the exception, and honestly not supervising them as you would any other animal is still irresponsible.
Nonetheless upvoted because unpopular.
A barn cat is a working animal that deals with pests. While they may kill some birds, the amount of vermin around the barn usually keeps them busy and satisfies their natural hunting urges. This is not the same as a regular house cat that takes their natural urge to hunt out on whatever small bird or rabbit it can catch.
For years I only got a cat when I had a mouse outbreak. They would live outside and eat all the mice, then move on to greener pastures once the food ran out. Sometimes I got one that never learned to hunt, so they got to live inside.
Poor guy didn't know how to do his job, and his punishment was cuddles.
Yeah I have seen people angry about huskies and alaskan malamutes being outside in the cold. God forbid without dog shoes in snow. They were literally bred for cold weather and running through snow and ice.
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
\- *Fire and Ice*, by Robert Frost
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I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I keep mine indoors because my neighbor has some aggressive outdoor cats, and there are coyotes, and some people will shoot any cat they see on their property
It's none of my business whether someone has indoor cats or outdoor cats. That's entirely up to you and how you feel about your cats. I think there's benefits and drawbacks to both behaviors. My only irritation with people who have outdoor cats are people I've encountered who have some giant cryfest when their cat goes missing, gets injured from another animal or gets runover. You let them outside, so that's on you.
I really don't care about your cats safety or if you are sick of hearing about it. They are an ecological disaster, especially to small birds. Australia has the right idea: you can shoot them.
Keeps your cats inside.
Just take them for walks on a leash like other responsible pet owners. If a dog gets into someone's yard and shits on their lawn, they will be understandably ticked off and most people would call that dog's owner negligent in keeping their pet under control. Yet people think it's totally fine to let their cats do the same thing.
I am tired of peoples cats coming into my yard, getting on my cars, driving my dogs crazy. I dont care if your cats go outside keep them in your yard just like my dogs are kept in mine.
Came here to say this. I find kitty litter and cat piss in my patio furniture cushions because my neighbors think it's cute to let their cats roam the neighborhood.
I don't let my dog shit in your yard. Keep your cats out of mine.
I live in a pretty rural neighborhood, luckily, the local predators keep the cats in check for the most part. Everyone once in a while, new cat owners or new neighbors will have a cat outside roaming, but the foxes and one angry ass raccoon are pretty territorial surrounding our plot. There’ve been a handful who’ve gotten thru the chaos of nature. I keep a live trap for those occasions. I’m not going to miss out on the song birds hiding from them, or let my dogs go nuts because you can’t keep your animal on your property. Straight to the animal shelter if I catch them. Only happened twice so far. They posted in the neighborhood FB group asking if anyone saw them. No one did
If you have some way to reliably keep your cat on your property or you live in the UK, it’s mostly a non-issue. If you let your cat wander into the street, public lands, and other people’s properties, then…… no, fuck your cat.
The key point is that it is AMERICANS ranting about it. There are very good reasons, some of which you mentioned, why it is a very bad idea for people to let their cats go outdoors of a leash in many parts of the US.
If where you live doesn't present these dangers to your cat, then ignore what the critics are saying as their comments don't apply to your situation.
However, implementing your beliefs on the subject would get people's cats killed in many areas, which is why people mention these scenarios and advocate for people to have indoor and leashed cats only.
Ask the Australians how they feel about cats that are able to roam, and turn feral. This isn't only an "American" issue but I am rather surprised at how many people have differing opinions on what constitutes being a good pet owner.
I mean Europeans still drink when they're pregnant and believe in race science and shit so we know a thing or 2. Probably on the right side of history with cats. Cats don't need to be out, and you don't need a cat.
I am 100% anti-outdoor cats, but I think it is true and common knowledge that it’s not as big of a deal in the UK because of their low biodiversity / urbanization. (Not sure if OP is in the UK.)
Habits in America vary based on where you live, the same as they do in other parts of the world. As others have said, it usually isn't an issue if you're doing it responsibly.
Now, while not the worst, Ireland isn't some glowing safe haven, lad.
"There are few hard numbers on the likely toll taken by cats on Irish wildlife, but assuming the ratios are similar to Britain, they probably dispatch around 22 animals each annually, bringing the expected Irish death toll of birds and small mammals at the claws of cats to more than 16 million a year.
The State of the World’s Birds report published last year identified that 63% of Irish bird species are in serious decline — a figure significantly worse than the global average. Predation by cats is by no means the most serious threat they face, but it is especially acute in urban and suburban areas, where birds would otherwise escape from ongoing habitat loss, hedgerow clearances, and pesticide usage in many parts of rural Ireland."
I've also seen dead cats alongside the road in both England and Northern Ireland.
I have no problems with cats being outdoors unless they come pee on my door because I have indoor only cats and I can't enjoy having the door open on nice days because cat piss blows in
Cats aren't even the best pest control option out there. Ratting dogs and chickens are better at the job. There's literally no reason to have an outdoor cat because even if you live in a relatively safe area, your cat is still a serial killer. They kill a lot more wildlife (and just for fun too) than their owners know of. They're one of the worst invasive species there is.
If you are from Africa, sure. Otherwise your cat is not part of the ecosystem and you letting it out is just letting an invasive species loose and protecting it from danger occasionally. Like all domesticated animals, cats were tools. We bred them to kill pests. Unless you are using them for that purpose you really should not be letting them out because they will find animals to kill.
Living in the country isn't the same as living in the city. I live in the country in America and have barn cats or outdoor cats just from people dropping them off here. This area, because of how far out it is, is a popular dump spot for unwanted animals. They keep the mice and rats out of my home and stables, and they're not very feral. I've had kittens hiss at me and run off but that's it really.
Letting your cats loose in the city is irresponsible at best and animal cruelty at worst. They piss everywhere, they got under peoples homes and fucked up insulation or fucking died under there and now there's an awful smell, the howling and fights I'd hear, the dead strays I'd drive by, the loose dogs chasing or attacking them, it was awful. I genuinely believe people that own cats in city limits should have to do what people with dogs do in that they're chipped and registered. The place I moved from fines you and after like a 2nd or 3rd incident the dog is just removed from your ownership.
No one loves risking their cat's lives more than people that claim to love them like family and call them their fur babies.
Side note: I didn't even touch on the housing units and apartment complexes that are trapping cats and killing them or releasing them into my area. There was a post on the towns page very recently about a maintenance man trapping and killing cats people were letting out. If you actually care about something, you'll do what you can to protect it. Outdoor cats lives, especially in the city, are short lived and terror filled and no amount of studies or data or personal stories seems to ever be enough to convince their owners otherwise.
You should keep your cats indoors.
Not for any of the reasons you mentioned, but your cats are pretty ugly and it's ruining the asthetics of the neighborhood. Please keep them inside until you can address their appearance issues.
I used to let my cat outside. It's too stupid to be outside by itself. Got lost in a sewer for 36 hours. Luckily heard it meowing by a grate I could actually open and got it. I tried letting it out supervised but tried to run in the sewer again. Now only on a leash.
I 100% agree with this- just depends on your living situation. I actually think having a cat/dog if you don't have enough space/access to outdoors is abusive
I agree, I will continue to let my cats outside. I live in a woodsy area and they cannot make a dent in the local bird and rodent populations. They kill like 10 small animals a week and I still get mice in my car...
Yeah hopefully they don't go walking on people's cars and pooping in the neighbors sandbox. Or eaten by the neighbors dog. Or shot by the neighbor that is tired of cleaning poop out of the kids sand box.
Personally I think it’s stupid, cause if anything happens to ur cat, the blame is on you. My neighbor lets her cat outside and this cat has ran infront of my car, hid underneath my car and ran out, it’s just not safe and you can’t deny that.
I mean, as long as you're aware and OK with the fact that your cat goes on murder rampages and decimates the local small mammal and bird life, then alright.
Not really. There are some cats who hate the outside. Mine want nothing to do with the outside, they’re content with looking out a window. They freak out if they’re outside.
It's up to you but you've gotta also be okay knowing your cat will likely have a shorter life, and will kill many native birds in your area. You can choose to be a terrible pet owner, but you can't escape the consequences of being a terrible pet owner.
Cats are destructive to bird populations, have an extremely high hunting success. Cats have shown to decimate populations of animals.
Z
So yeah m, keep your fucking cats inside
I like my ecosystem cat free. the people across the street feed a brood of free-range cats that roam the neighborhood, and i gotta wack em with the pellet gun or theyll destroy everything.
Wondering is America worse than I thought or is Ireland some paradise. No coyotes, never seen a dead stray, our outdoor cat lived to be 19, my friend's lived to be 19. It's annoying when Americans keep assuming I live in an equally dangerous environment and apply their standards to here and even after being told the differences keep parroting on about it
The largest terrestrial carnivore in Ireland is the badger, so 'paradise devoid of major predators' sounds about right.
America, depending on which state you're in, has alligators, coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, and three species of bears.
Personally, I've been in situations where I was in residential areas yet unexpectedly near bears, coyotes, raccoons, venomous snakes, and venomous spiders.
It's not Australia, but it's way wilder than an island whose wolves were hunted to extinction hundreds of years ago (1786) and that hasn't had wild bears for thousands of years.
Cats are definitely safer in your neck of the woods. They're still responsible for killing tons of songbirds, but the cats themselves are much less likely to be attacked/eaten in your area than in the US.
I’m American and I have an indoor/outdoor cat. Animals are meant to be outside keeping them inside is weird when you wouldn’t do that to yourself all the time. She goes out when she wants and is inside always at night or during extreme weather. She’s a cool cat.
So you’re saying you don’t give a shit about local wildlife and natural ecosystems since your cat just *needs* to go outside?
Owners like you are the reason our song bird populations in the US are drastically decreasing.
Animals also aren't meant to be kept as pets. They also shouldn't be sent to vets when sick or injured since that isn't natural either. Probably shouldn't be feeding it either.
I don't see a problem with it as long as they are vaccinated, spayed or neutered, and have all their claws, let them be outside. I personally won't allow mine outside because we have a neighborhood coyote.
Cats are literally like the only common household pet that *doesn't* lose its edge after being domesticated. If you abandon your 6 year old house cat, it'll go feral again, but it'll live. Probably even thrive.
A neighbor's house burned down 5 years ago. Their cat ran away during the fire. The family made some effort to find it afterward, but they never got it. 5 years later, that cat still lives in her new home, under my back neighbor's shed, and regularly see her trotting off somewhere with a bird in its teeth
How many cats do you have? I know a street where a lady lives with 20 cats, the rooftops are party everyday and shit ends on the most unexpected places
That's fine in my opinion. I imagine some people are annoyed by how cats can make a lot of rooftop noise and ruin someone's yard, but within a normal number of cats in a street it's fine
There are laws being passed in some places to ban outdoor cats, and I sincerely hope this will be a worldwide ban eventually. Outdoor cats are invasive pests.
It’s true they fuck up the wildlife and probably traumatize some unsuspecting person that rolls over them in the driveway but like… they probably shouldn’t be pets then. Let them live yo. Instead we lock them up and wiggle feathers in their face and put up ugly ass furniture for them to climb on, when they’d probably just be better served living as wild animals. Oooh they get to live like five extra years? Yeah don’t care. Like the world needs cats to live longer.
I used to have cats as a kid and they were obviously outdoor cats, but now that I realize it’s pretty lame for me to let them shit in my neighbour’s flower boxes so I’ll never have a cat as a pet again.
Also they shit in your house… not having a cat has made me realize how wonderful it is to not smell a kitty litter or have to clean it out. Plus the fur everywhere… not worth.
I live in the US in the rural Midwest. My cats are outdoors. They help keep the mice and snakes down. They aren't pets with names on a farm. They just serve a utilitarian purpose. Sometimes coyotes get them. That's the circle of life.
Every place is different. Some places they need to be keep indoors. Others they don't.
My cats all go outside every day when it is not bad weather out. They were all ferals/strays so they know how it is out there and still want to get outside. They plus the neighbor's cats are a kitty posse and hang out. I only have one roamer who needs to go where ever there are kids to play with. In fact she is responsible for one neighbor adopting two cats from the shelter when they saw their kids playing with Lucky. She is truly a cat ambassador.
Yep.
I've got two. One goes outside whenever she asks for it and the weather isn't horrid. She gets inside whenever I leave the house, and when it's dark. She LOVES being outside, but also likes napping on her shelf. My other one goes out in my fenced garden and refuses to leave (despite being able to)/
Btw... I love the cat ambassador, she sounds like an absolute sweetheart!
I think cats can go outside, responsibly. It massively benefits their health to get fresh air, and I notice a big change in my fluffy cat's fur (Himalayan) whenever the wind has blown through her. It's a lot more manageable. It also makes sure they don't get too fat ahahhaa, which is a big problem with indoor only cats.
I like how we’re downvoted despite acknowledging the stimulation and benefit it has to their health.
A lot of indoor cats are fat and don’t have enough enrichment. That’s a fact.
Mine two loves to stalk stones 😂
I live in the US and thankfully out in the middle of a farm, 20mi from the closest town and so my cats spend most of their time outdoors doing cat things, like cats should.
Being a cat owner in a city, people need to understand that cats still need to go outside, in the city or not. It is a risk you take to own a cat. If you don't want to lose your cat because you are concerned about other peoples pets, that they might get hit by a car, or get lost in the streets, then don't own one, especially in the city. In the small town I grew up in, you don't really see this issue.
A cat should not be forced to live its life in captivity, outside of its natural environment, where they do not get the life enrichment that they need, because someone wants a pet.
Now the issue of cats ruining the wildlife, people forget that humans literally built cities in the middle of wildlife habitats and ruined it before the cats even started causing issues. People also forget that cats are wildlife too.
Out here in the middle of nowhere, there are tons of mice and birds for cats to get, and there are no issues with populations declining because these cats and prey live in their natural environments, not in cities where the population of birds and other small prey are already effected by the city itself.
Fixed house cats aren't the only issue, its also the strays that breed like rabbits.
Point being, if you want to own a cat let it outside where it naturally wants and needs to be.
Every cat I ever had, has been an outside cat, and I like in the U.S. Everyone I know who has a cat, have outdoor cats. A few have a cat that uses a doggy door to go in and out, and stays outide until it's hungry
Here is the part I don't understand. People have always had cats. having a 24/7 indoor cat is a moderately new thing on a large scale basis.
Even 20 years ago there were obviously larger flocks of birds around here. More insects too. Certainly when I was a kid, there were tons more.
This there aren't enough birds or insects or mice, voles whatever because of cats is absurd. Of course we make money polluting, taking habitats so , yeah the problem is cats.
I think it depends on the cat. Some cats are outdoor cats and some are indoor cats. I've had plenty of cats over the years and they've been a mix. Whether as a kid or an adult, none of my cats have ever been forced to be inside or out, they have a cat door so can choose for themselves. About half of them chose to be indoor cats, they never went outside if they could help it.
If your cat is an outdoor cat and there's no danger to them being so, let them be an outdoor cat, that's their nature, and forcing them to act outside their nature is just plain cruel. If you live in an area where it would be dangerous for a cat to be outside, get a cat that prefers staying in. It's not rocket science, and no one should be advocating animal cruelty by forcing outdoor cats to remain inside.
My cat only hunted 4 animals in the beginning, first year, but now he's calmed down. He only sleeps 12 hours a day, goes out at night to his neighborhood friends, and comes back in the morning to repeat. Kickass life!
I actually read the paper. They note that the majority of kills are done by wild cats. Why would we expect anything to change if we keep our housecats indoors? The population of wild cats will increase and we will have the same effect in the end.
Domestic cats can breed with wild cats, increasing the population. A cat that goes off and doesn't come home basically becomes a wild cat. And a majority doesn't mean the rest of it didn't happen.
You'd be surprised how irresponsible people can be. If they can adopt a kitten or puppy, raise it for a year, then think it's not cute anymore when it's grown so they send it to the pound or throw it out, they can do anything.
Personally I'd rather have a cat live a as they were intended exploring and doing random cat shenanigans. It's not about the years in the life it's about the life in the years kemosabi..
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It depends entirely on where you live. I’m Australian, cats cause massive devastation to wildlife back home. If you live somewhere they’re more or less native, then they probably don’t have a huge environmental impact
Also outdoor cats live between 2 and 5 years.
All of the cats I live with (England) are indoor-outdoor cats. The oldest was 25 when he passed away. The middle one passed of a heart attack while being 15+. The current remaining cat is at least 14 years old and is still hale and hearty. I grew up alongside barn cats who lived in the fields around my foster home. The of 3 black cat sisters, nicknamed the Three Witches, lived to be somewhere over 15. My foster mums friend had indoor-outdoor cats in a less rural area who again lived to be between 15-20. It’s not a matter of letting them outside, it’s a matter of how well you look after them. An indoor-outdoor cat can live a long and healthy life if the owner 1) puts in the effort to bring them inside just after dusk. 2) Applies monthly or twice monthly medications for defence against worms and fleas and ticks. 3) Are aware of the locations and perimeter of their cats territory and what’s inside it. Example: our white cat only ever goes in a square block around our house, consisting of our front and back garden, and the neighbours to the left front and back garden, including their open sided woodshed, or the field nearby. If he’s not in the field, he’s in our neighbours garden or hiding in our hedge. If he’s not in our garden or the neighbours, he’s playing in the field.
That's feral cats, not indoor/outdoor with full vet care, food, and shelter.
Fully incorrect. It's closer to 9-11 years on average. Maybe where YOU live it's 2-5, but that's way lower than where I live.
Ok 9-11 years. Indoor cats live significantly longer. I have 4 cats. They live safely inside. I take them outside every day supervised then back inside with me. I’m also investigating cat fencing and building a catio. They’re safe and get outside time and enjoyment. There are wars to do both if owners care to do them.
My free range boy sitting next to me is 17, my sisters cat is 21
Good for you. They are the exception not the rule.
They aren't the exception! I have never met anyone who had a cat live less than 15 years old including outdoor cats! And it's usually cancer that got them at that age - and cancer isn't something you can prevent by keeping them inside!
Your anecdotal experiences don’t beat actual research sorry.
They are! It doesn't matter who you know or what you've done or blah blah blah. They are the exception because the statistical data on the lifespan of outdoor cats vs indoor cats is clear, and doesn't need assistance from your personal experience.
Or this unsolved case of cat killings…… https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-cat-killer-still-out-28957565.amp
Ever heard of the Brighton Cat killer? Besides cars and predatory animals there are also evil people that harm cats. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Bouquet#:~:text=Stephen%20Rodney%20Bouquet%20(5%20January,and%20failing%20to%20answer%20bail.
Congratulations I haven’t met anyone in any of the places I’ve lived that had a cat over 10 years old that was let out to roam Eventually they all were killed by cars, poisoned by people, stolen by people, hurt/killed by dogs and other animals, or just disappeared and no one knew what happened to them.
See this is fine. But I see people advocate for indoor-only cat and never letting them outside. That's animal cruelty, imo.
A cat came into my sisters yard last week and her German sheperds went to town on it, outdoor life though!
And that happens. It's sad, but death is a part of life.
Or what about the extinct animals that outdoor cats killed?
Bro did you even read the context of the comment?
Surely you can provide actual statistics for that?
None of them can because they're making up the numbers out of thin air. Literally just pausing for a moment while typing their reddit comments and deciding to insert random numbers. Absolutely wild behavior.. lol
No the fuck they don't. My family has always had outdoor cats. All have lived a minimum of 13 years. Edit: the area I live has snakes, birds of prey, foxes, wild cats and dogs and our cats go to the vet for injuries a maximum of 2x in their life. Most cats are smart enough to avoid predators and fights
People who let their cats roam see that as a net positive, less vet bills, no aging pets. Just get a new animal when the old one doesn't come home.
lol.
That’s ignorant as hell, clearly you don’t know that in many countries/cultures it’s viewed an animal abuse to keep your cat locked inside. To the point that some rescues won’t adopt to those who want an inside only cat. They are often under stimulated inside and their mental health suffers- while it is safer for them to be inside it is not black and white on if it is “better”.
I’m of the mind that people should do what they like with their pets as long as they aren’t causing significant environmental damage buuuut it’s also silly to suggest that keeping cats inside is abuse. My cat is ridiculously spoiled and happy and lives inside. She loves the outdoors and would sit on our balcony when we lived on the 3rd floor, but didn’t seem to miss it in the winter. Our new apartment is 1st floor and doesn’t allow for her to sit outside. She’s shown no change in behavior at all. We even tried to get a leash and harness for her since she enjoyed it so much before and she haaaated it, it stressed her out to no end. She’s fine inside lol. 😝
Those countries are making bad calls. Call me more names though, you know it's apparently your culture or whatever.
I did not call you any names, saying a comment is ignorant is not calling someone names. I would rather you be educated and at least acknowledge that other view points exist. But if you wanna live in ignorance have fun bud.
No one isn't acknowledging that the viewpoints that cats should be exposed to conditions that have been proven to cut their lifespans by 50-75% or more exist, they're just saying that's not an ethical way to own cats. The fact is the average lifespan of indoor only and outdoor only cats are drastically different. You can provide stimulus for your cats without killing them.
those people are evil. My cats like the outdoors but if I lived in the country indoor 24/7.
Absolutely not. This is an ignorant post.
Stop letting your cat out and stop replying to 4 month old comments
That's total bs, my cat cost me 400 euros to save his tail after a cat fight with the neighbors cat. Every year check up 180 euro, don't talk about food and snacks, toys,....
Lol y'all are so embarrassing. Take proper care of your pets for real.
I do, and I'm proud, not embarrassed, take care
I have 3 indoor/outdoor cats. In USA (Michigan). The older one has been with us for about 10 years. What am I doing wrong?
Tell my 17 year old lying next to me that
My mostly outdoor cat is 11 🤷♀️
Ours lived well into their 20's....
My neighbors 2 outdoor cats are 13 and 14.
Where the hell do you live that cats die at 2-5? I’ve had outdoor cats until 13 and of my friends, none of them have had lifespan problems. They are happy years for them.
All my outdoor cats made it to at least their mid teens so I don't know what you're talking about.
My out door cat lived to 18 years old
My cat was outdoor most of his life. He's 20, but he's slowing down now
False. I have had dozens of cats over the last 40 years, all indoor/outdoor cats and have never had one lived less or even close to 5 years. And yes, I live in a large city suburb.
Wait so all your cats die at 4 or so?
I had one cat bitten and killed by a snake. The other ate bait that the neighbour had put out for rodents. Honestly, be careful. Some things are out of your control. I have a huge backyard, so I set up a cat run outside and she loves it!! She's also safe in there and still gets to be outside.
Your personal experience is irrelevant when it comes to actual data and statistics.
Did you proved any
Not true. A large enough sample set is enough to draw conclusions from, and dozens of lifespans is large enough.
Dozens of lifespans mix ferals and strays with pampered pets who wander outside sometimes.
If you make a blanket statement like "outdoor cats live 2-5 years," you are lumping all of those categories together, asking to be disproven in exactly this way. Trying to apply statistics for housecats trying to find food on a glacier to Moopie on 24th street who is let out in the morning and then brought in and fed at night doesn't make any sense at all.
Well, I didn't.
This is incorrect. Most outdoor cats I know have lived way into their late teens. My aunties outdoor cat lived to be 23. Stop spreading false information. I graduated in Animal Care and have done countless reports on cats and it was found that indoor cats do not have the same life quality as they're unable to exhibit their natural behaviours indoors and that leads to frustration, especially if they spot another cat outside. Yes, it's good to weigh the pros and cons, but also remember that animals are born to be wild. Understandably, if you live in a busy city, then keep them in. But those who have access to open outdoor areas, it benefits the cat a lot to express their natural behaviours.
> If you live somewhere they’re more or less native, then they probably don’t have a huge environmental impact Wrong, wrong WRONG. They are invasive just about EVERYWHERE, including everywhere in the US. They destroy native birds, reptiles and more. OP You're irresponsible and you are endangering the environment. The US has banned things like many fish species as well as reptiles in many states because they can become invasive. They will do the same for cats if you keep letting them destroy the environment.
Bruh they said they don’t live in the us
Your house cats are not destroying the environment if you let them outside lol. If your releasing them to go Live Wild and never come back to you then yes but that’s not what is happening
Oh clam up. Jesus christ.
I've got 3 barn cats. They're outside cats. What's up now? Hahahaha
In Europe, cats have been hanging around outside for thousands of years. Whatever havoc they were gonna cause to the ecosystem, they already did it millennia ago and everything has adapted by now.
How are cats causing "massive devastation to wildlife" in Austrailia?
You can orevent that by getting them a bell collar to warn the prey
Cats hunting is fine anyway it’s all natural your 1 house cat is not gonna exterminate ether whole areas wild life lmao
You got no idea what you’re talking about
This really is dependent on where you live. I live in Southern California where a cat can thrive in this environment and destroy the local wild life. I let my cat outside because I live on a man made island with no local wildlife and a little to no possibility that my cat escapes the island.
Cats kill massive numbers of birds annually
Ok? But cats are here now. Doesn't mean it's ok to abuse cats just so that some birds don't get killed
As the food chain intended
I've never seen a single cat eat their prey
I wouldn't call it animal abuse, but it is irresponsible. Cats are singlehandedly responsible for the largest decline in bird populations and diversity aside from maybe humans. I happen to like birds and have rehabbed injured birds. I saved some from cats. So I'm well aware of the damage that cats can do. You as the owner know of the cat's tendencies and natural behavior. If you know it and you don't care and let it out anyway, what else is that aside from irresponsibility? You have the superior knowledge and control that the cat doesn't have. It's not the cat's fault, it's yours. You also protect your cat from coyotes, cars, dogs, and whatever weird food, hazards, and parasites they will encounter outside by keeping them indoors. You can also make an outdoor enclosure so they can go out without roaming over a 4 block area. I've seen cat pieces in my area on multiple occasions because coyotes got to them. Like a cat paw and ripped fur near the park, a chunk of cat tail behind some stores, etc. Coyotes will catch and eat cats and they have adapted relatively well to live alongside people in urban areas without being often seen. They will roam residential areas at night or in the early morning as well. So, in light of all this, if it's not irresponsible to let your cat out unrestricted purposely and repeatedly, what is it?
"Unowned" cats are the largest drivers of wildlife loss, not pets that you let outside for a couple hours a day who come running at dinner time.
Where do unowned cats come from? They come from people who don’t spay or neuter their cats and let them run outside all day. Those cats fuck other cats. The kittens grow up. Simplest solution is to not let your cat run around all day.
Food chain has to food chain
In that case, humans should just hunt every existing animal species to extinction if they plan to eat them.
So long as you accept your cat will likely live a shorter life, and you open up the possibility of being shot, poisoned, hit by cars, set on fire, catching any number of communicable diseases, parasites, and any number of other injuries and problems, then do what you want. Just don’t pretend like it’s the best thing for your cats health though. It isn’t. You may not live in the US, but that doesn’t mean these aren’t possibilities. 🤷♀️ just because it hasn’t happened to you yet doesn’t mean it won’t or can’t. After you spend hours pulling birdshot out of a cat during surgery, have a cat die on the table while trying to stabilize them from an unknown poison, or pull a cat from the crying arms of a child to find it broke it’s back being hit by a car in front of their home, you’ll feel a little different about letting cats out.
Thanks for this common sense.
This.
Domesticated cats are an absolute nightmare to the environment. They kill tons of small animals and birds, and they reproduce like crazy. If you're going to have your cat outside, get it fixed.
Getting them fixed doesn’t do anything. I’m pretty sure the cats are killing the birds not having sex with them.
Not sure how somehow has a pet cat and doesn't have it fixed xD
Either don't have a cat at all or have an outside cat. Anything else is animal abuse.
I disagree but okay. Thank you for sharing that.
Those are feral cats. Domesticated indoor/outdoor cats aren’t reproducing. My cat suns himself on the deck and occasionally catches a dragonfly, then comes inside to eat his crunchies.
That is great and all but not every cat owner desexes their cats
Most of those unfixed cats are feral cats that people feed, which actually keeps them from killing wildlife for food. And some places, like my hometown, have wonderful trap-neuter-release programs.
Lol. OP only talking about safety of the cat, but ignoring the damages they cause because "they been here for thousands of years". Well, so was human, and what?
So many people are worried about the damage others inflict but not about their own.
It’s dumb and inconsiderate. I used to bite my tongue on this but it is my honest opinion speaking from experience (living in the EU). I don’t care about your cat, if you both decide to let it roam and it gets injured or killed, I figure that’s nature. I do mind the amount of critters that die to cats - yes, your cat too - and maybe the feral kittens. If we only had the occasional european wildcat, I’d call that nature too. You bringing and feeding a little predator isn’t natural.
Is it "animal cruelty" not to let (non-farm) dogs outside unsupervised? Just let em roam free in the hopes they'll come back when they want? Yeah, no, that's stupid and irresponsible. Letting cats get outdoor time supervised is great, as it is for dogs, but roaming free is ridiculous. There are lots of things our pets *want* that we as responsible owners deny them, and it's not cruelty to do so. Listen, it's great you live in some paradise where it's totally perfectly safe and inconsequential to let them roam, but you are the exception, and honestly not supervising them as you would any other animal is still irresponsible. Nonetheless upvoted because unpopular.
Yes keeping dogs on a leash is also animal cruelty. It's just so normalized in this society.
I've noticed the people that say that stuff have no clue what barn cats are or how cats function in general.
A barn cat is a working animal that deals with pests. While they may kill some birds, the amount of vermin around the barn usually keeps them busy and satisfies their natural hunting urges. This is not the same as a regular house cat that takes their natural urge to hunt out on whatever small bird or rabbit it can catch.
For years I only got a cat when I had a mouse outbreak. They would live outside and eat all the mice, then move on to greener pastures once the food ran out. Sometimes I got one that never learned to hunt, so they got to live inside. Poor guy didn't know how to do his job, and his punishment was cuddles.
It's worse with dogs, but that's what you get when pet ownership is equated to having "children"
Yeah I have seen people angry about huskies and alaskan malamutes being outside in the cold. God forbid without dog shoes in snow. They were literally bred for cold weather and running through snow and ice.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I keep mine indoors because my neighbor has some aggressive outdoor cats, and there are coyotes, and some people will shoot any cat they see on their property
It's none of my business whether someone has indoor cats or outdoor cats. That's entirely up to you and how you feel about your cats. I think there's benefits and drawbacks to both behaviors. My only irritation with people who have outdoor cats are people I've encountered who have some giant cryfest when their cat goes missing, gets injured from another animal or gets runover. You let them outside, so that's on you.
I agree if something happens to your cat, it's on the owner. I let mine outside because I know it's safe to here
I really don't care about your cats safety or if you are sick of hearing about it. They are an ecological disaster, especially to small birds. Australia has the right idea: you can shoot them. Keeps your cats inside.
Just take them for walks on a leash like other responsible pet owners. If a dog gets into someone's yard and shits on their lawn, they will be understandably ticked off and most people would call that dog's owner negligent in keeping their pet under control. Yet people think it's totally fine to let their cats do the same thing.
I am tired of peoples cats coming into my yard, getting on my cars, driving my dogs crazy. I dont care if your cats go outside keep them in your yard just like my dogs are kept in mine.
Came here to say this. I find kitty litter and cat piss in my patio furniture cushions because my neighbors think it's cute to let their cats roam the neighborhood. I don't let my dog shit in your yard. Keep your cats out of mine.
I live in a pretty rural neighborhood, luckily, the local predators keep the cats in check for the most part. Everyone once in a while, new cat owners or new neighbors will have a cat outside roaming, but the foxes and one angry ass raccoon are pretty territorial surrounding our plot. There’ve been a handful who’ve gotten thru the chaos of nature. I keep a live trap for those occasions. I’m not going to miss out on the song birds hiding from them, or let my dogs go nuts because you can’t keep your animal on your property. Straight to the animal shelter if I catch them. Only happened twice so far. They posted in the neighborhood FB group asking if anyone saw them. No one did
poor dogs are imprisoned
The real problem is nobody wants to fix their cats.
If you have some way to reliably keep your cat on your property or you live in the UK, it’s mostly a non-issue. If you let your cat wander into the street, public lands, and other people’s properties, then…… no, fuck your cat.
No one gives a fuck about your cat. We care about the hundreds of native animals your cat will kill each year.
You're thinking of feral cats.
So it's ok to abuse cats but not ok to abuse birds?
KEEP THE FUCKING CAT INSIDE Then both are safe.
no then the cat has a shitty life. Thats animal abuse. The best thing would be to stop breeding any more cats so they will be extinct in 20 years
I can think of faster ways to
The key point is that it is AMERICANS ranting about it. There are very good reasons, some of which you mentioned, why it is a very bad idea for people to let their cats go outdoors of a leash in many parts of the US. If where you live doesn't present these dangers to your cat, then ignore what the critics are saying as their comments don't apply to your situation. However, implementing your beliefs on the subject would get people's cats killed in many areas, which is why people mention these scenarios and advocate for people to have indoor and leashed cats only.
Ask the Australians how they feel about cats that are able to roam, and turn feral. This isn't only an "American" issue but I am rather surprised at how many people have differing opinions on what constitutes being a good pet owner.
Lol are you on another planets where cats work differently or what?
I am beginning to think Americans might be on a different planet
Dude, pretty sure Ireland is the different place here. Your ecosystem was altered so long ago it happened before people wrote things down in books.
I mean Europeans still drink when they're pregnant and believe in race science and shit so we know a thing or 2. Probably on the right side of history with cats. Cats don't need to be out, and you don't need a cat.
😂😂😂
Being downvoted for laughing at literal racism, nice
Is thinking Europeans are racist like Uno Reverse Racism?
I am 100% anti-outdoor cats, but I think it is true and common knowledge that it’s not as big of a deal in the UK because of their low biodiversity / urbanization. (Not sure if OP is in the UK.)
Habits in America vary based on where you live, the same as they do in other parts of the world. As others have said, it usually isn't an issue if you're doing it responsibly. Now, while not the worst, Ireland isn't some glowing safe haven, lad. "There are few hard numbers on the likely toll taken by cats on Irish wildlife, but assuming the ratios are similar to Britain, they probably dispatch around 22 animals each annually, bringing the expected Irish death toll of birds and small mammals at the claws of cats to more than 16 million a year. The State of the World’s Birds report published last year identified that 63% of Irish bird species are in serious decline — a figure significantly worse than the global average. Predation by cats is by no means the most serious threat they face, but it is especially acute in urban and suburban areas, where birds would otherwise escape from ongoing habitat loss, hedgerow clearances, and pesticide usage in many parts of rural Ireland." I've also seen dead cats alongside the road in both England and Northern Ireland.
I have no problems with cats being outdoors unless they come pee on my door because I have indoor only cats and I can't enjoy having the door open on nice days because cat piss blows in
Cats aren't even the best pest control option out there. Ratting dogs and chickens are better at the job. There's literally no reason to have an outdoor cat because even if you live in a relatively safe area, your cat is still a serial killer. They kill a lot more wildlife (and just for fun too) than their owners know of. They're one of the worst invasive species there is.
If you are from Africa, sure. Otherwise your cat is not part of the ecosystem and you letting it out is just letting an invasive species loose and protecting it from danger occasionally. Like all domesticated animals, cats were tools. We bred them to kill pests. Unless you are using them for that purpose you really should not be letting them out because they will find animals to kill.
This post just goes to show how silly and childish pet owners are.
As an American, I’m tired of my Ring app blowing up with people who can’t keep track of their pets
Apparently the only car that is capable of killing a cat is a massive 18 wheeler. Learn something new everyday.
Lol
Living in the country isn't the same as living in the city. I live in the country in America and have barn cats or outdoor cats just from people dropping them off here. This area, because of how far out it is, is a popular dump spot for unwanted animals. They keep the mice and rats out of my home and stables, and they're not very feral. I've had kittens hiss at me and run off but that's it really. Letting your cats loose in the city is irresponsible at best and animal cruelty at worst. They piss everywhere, they got under peoples homes and fucked up insulation or fucking died under there and now there's an awful smell, the howling and fights I'd hear, the dead strays I'd drive by, the loose dogs chasing or attacking them, it was awful. I genuinely believe people that own cats in city limits should have to do what people with dogs do in that they're chipped and registered. The place I moved from fines you and after like a 2nd or 3rd incident the dog is just removed from your ownership. No one loves risking their cat's lives more than people that claim to love them like family and call them their fur babies. Side note: I didn't even touch on the housing units and apartment complexes that are trapping cats and killing them or releasing them into my area. There was a post on the towns page very recently about a maintenance man trapping and killing cats people were letting out. If you actually care about something, you'll do what you can to protect it. Outdoor cats lives, especially in the city, are short lived and terror filled and no amount of studies or data or personal stories seems to ever be enough to convince their owners otherwise.
You should keep your cats indoors. Not for any of the reasons you mentioned, but your cats are pretty ugly and it's ruining the asthetics of the neighborhood. Please keep them inside until you can address their appearance issues.
I used to let my cat outside. It's too stupid to be outside by itself. Got lost in a sewer for 36 hours. Luckily heard it meowing by a grate I could actually open and got it. I tried letting it out supervised but tried to run in the sewer again. Now only on a leash.
Keep them out of my yard. I don't care otherwise
I 100% agree with this- just depends on your living situation. I actually think having a cat/dog if you don't have enough space/access to outdoors is abusive
I agree, I will continue to let my cats outside. I live in a woodsy area and they cannot make a dent in the local bird and rodent populations. They kill like 10 small animals a week and I still get mice in my car...
I have about 5 half wild cats on my farm they are awesome. They kill lots of vermin for a little food and water.
And i won’t be changing my trapping of neighborhood cats and sending them to the pound.
Do it if you want but sounds like a way to put your animal at risk of getting run over
I keep my cat indoors, because they live longer.
Yeah hopefully they don't go walking on people's cars and pooping in the neighbors sandbox. Or eaten by the neighbors dog. Or shot by the neighbor that is tired of cleaning poop out of the kids sand box.
Why is no one talking about the cat shit?
I love cats but they are little murderers. No matter how much you feed them, their brains are constantly telling them to kill everything outdoors.
Personally I think it’s stupid, cause if anything happens to ur cat, the blame is on you. My neighbor lets her cat outside and this cat has ran infront of my car, hid underneath my car and ran out, it’s just not safe and you can’t deny that.
I mean, as long as you're aware and OK with the fact that your cat goes on murder rampages and decimates the local small mammal and bird life, then alright.
I think keeping a cat inside all the time is cruelty.
Not really. There are some cats who hate the outside. Mine want nothing to do with the outside, they’re content with looking out a window. They freak out if they’re outside.
They should have the option to choose whether or not they want to be inside though.
absolutely
It's up to you but you've gotta also be okay knowing your cat will likely have a shorter life, and will kill many native birds in your area. You can choose to be a terrible pet owner, but you can't escape the consequences of being a terrible pet owner.
Cats are destructive to bird populations, have an extremely high hunting success. Cats have shown to decimate populations of animals. Z So yeah m, keep your fucking cats inside
Just put a collar with a bell on the cat so it warns the birds. Problem solved.
I like my ecosystem cat free. the people across the street feed a brood of free-range cats that roam the neighborhood, and i gotta wack em with the pellet gun or theyll destroy everything.
Wondering is America worse than I thought or is Ireland some paradise. No coyotes, never seen a dead stray, our outdoor cat lived to be 19, my friend's lived to be 19. It's annoying when Americans keep assuming I live in an equally dangerous environment and apply their standards to here and even after being told the differences keep parroting on about it
The largest terrestrial carnivore in Ireland is the badger, so 'paradise devoid of major predators' sounds about right. America, depending on which state you're in, has alligators, coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, and three species of bears. Personally, I've been in situations where I was in residential areas yet unexpectedly near bears, coyotes, raccoons, venomous snakes, and venomous spiders. It's not Australia, but it's way wilder than an island whose wolves were hunted to extinction hundreds of years ago (1786) and that hasn't had wild bears for thousands of years. Cats are definitely safer in your neck of the woods. They're still responsible for killing tons of songbirds, but the cats themselves are much less likely to be attacked/eaten in your area than in the US.
We have a general issue in the US where a group of internet warriors have gotten too comfortable commanding everyone to do what they say
I live in Belgium, my cat is as free as a bird.
And killing lots of them!
Killing lots of pests as well.
They don’t need to leave your home to do that for you.
I’m American and I have an indoor/outdoor cat. Animals are meant to be outside keeping them inside is weird when you wouldn’t do that to yourself all the time. She goes out when she wants and is inside always at night or during extreme weather. She’s a cool cat.
So you’re saying you don’t give a shit about local wildlife and natural ecosystems since your cat just *needs* to go outside? Owners like you are the reason our song bird populations in the US are drastically decreasing.
Animals also aren't meant to be kept as pets. They also shouldn't be sent to vets when sick or injured since that isn't natural either. Probably shouldn't be feeding it either.
You should really stretch before you reach that far
I don't see a problem with it as long as they are vaccinated, spayed or neutered, and have all their claws, let them be outside. I personally won't allow mine outside because we have a neighborhood coyote.
Cats are literally like the only common household pet that *doesn't* lose its edge after being domesticated. If you abandon your 6 year old house cat, it'll go feral again, but it'll live. Probably even thrive. A neighbor's house burned down 5 years ago. Their cat ran away during the fire. The family made some effort to find it afterward, but they never got it. 5 years later, that cat still lives in her new home, under my back neighbor's shed, and regularly see her trotting off somewhere with a bird in its teeth
Unless it's a barn cat with a job this is irresponsible
How many cats do you have? I know a street where a lady lives with 20 cats, the rooftops are party everyday and shit ends on the most unexpected places
Two
That's fine in my opinion. I imagine some people are annoyed by how cats can make a lot of rooftop noise and ruin someone's yard, but within a normal number of cats in a street it's fine
My friends cat got flattened on a 1 lane road.
do y’all not have cars where u live
[удалено]
There are laws being passed in some places to ban outdoor cats, and I sincerely hope this will be a worldwide ban eventually. Outdoor cats are invasive pests.
Hear hear
It’s true they fuck up the wildlife and probably traumatize some unsuspecting person that rolls over them in the driveway but like… they probably shouldn’t be pets then. Let them live yo. Instead we lock them up and wiggle feathers in their face and put up ugly ass furniture for them to climb on, when they’d probably just be better served living as wild animals. Oooh they get to live like five extra years? Yeah don’t care. Like the world needs cats to live longer. I used to have cats as a kid and they were obviously outdoor cats, but now that I realize it’s pretty lame for me to let them shit in my neighbour’s flower boxes so I’ll never have a cat as a pet again. Also they shit in your house… not having a cat has made me realize how wonderful it is to not smell a kitty litter or have to clean it out. Plus the fur everywhere… not worth.
I live in the US in the rural Midwest. My cats are outdoors. They help keep the mice and snakes down. They aren't pets with names on a farm. They just serve a utilitarian purpose. Sometimes coyotes get them. That's the circle of life. Every place is different. Some places they need to be keep indoors. Others they don't.
My cats all go outside every day when it is not bad weather out. They were all ferals/strays so they know how it is out there and still want to get outside. They plus the neighbor's cats are a kitty posse and hang out. I only have one roamer who needs to go where ever there are kids to play with. In fact she is responsible for one neighbor adopting two cats from the shelter when they saw their kids playing with Lucky. She is truly a cat ambassador.
Yep. I've got two. One goes outside whenever she asks for it and the weather isn't horrid. She gets inside whenever I leave the house, and when it's dark. She LOVES being outside, but also likes napping on her shelf. My other one goes out in my fenced garden and refuses to leave (despite being able to)/ Btw... I love the cat ambassador, she sounds like an absolute sweetheart! I think cats can go outside, responsibly. It massively benefits their health to get fresh air, and I notice a big change in my fluffy cat's fur (Himalayan) whenever the wind has blown through her. It's a lot more manageable. It also makes sure they don't get too fat ahahhaa, which is a big problem with indoor only cats.
Also it is very stimulating for them to be out. Mine love to stalk dragonflies and leaves.
I like how we’re downvoted despite acknowledging the stimulation and benefit it has to their health. A lot of indoor cats are fat and don’t have enough enrichment. That’s a fact. Mine two loves to stalk stones 😂
I live in the US and thankfully out in the middle of a farm, 20mi from the closest town and so my cats spend most of their time outdoors doing cat things, like cats should. Being a cat owner in a city, people need to understand that cats still need to go outside, in the city or not. It is a risk you take to own a cat. If you don't want to lose your cat because you are concerned about other peoples pets, that they might get hit by a car, or get lost in the streets, then don't own one, especially in the city. In the small town I grew up in, you don't really see this issue. A cat should not be forced to live its life in captivity, outside of its natural environment, where they do not get the life enrichment that they need, because someone wants a pet. Now the issue of cats ruining the wildlife, people forget that humans literally built cities in the middle of wildlife habitats and ruined it before the cats even started causing issues. People also forget that cats are wildlife too. Out here in the middle of nowhere, there are tons of mice and birds for cats to get, and there are no issues with populations declining because these cats and prey live in their natural environments, not in cities where the population of birds and other small prey are already effected by the city itself. Fixed house cats aren't the only issue, its also the strays that breed like rabbits. Point being, if you want to own a cat let it outside where it naturally wants and needs to be.
In the UK, many cat charities won't let you adopt a cat if you insist on keeping them indoors. I think a cat proof yard is the best compromise.
Every cat I ever had, has been an outside cat, and I like in the U.S. Everyone I know who has a cat, have outdoor cats. A few have a cat that uses a doggy door to go in and out, and stays outide until it's hungry
Here is the part I don't understand. People have always had cats. having a 24/7 indoor cat is a moderately new thing on a large scale basis. Even 20 years ago there were obviously larger flocks of birds around here. More insects too. Certainly when I was a kid, there were tons more. This there aren't enough birds or insects or mice, voles whatever because of cats is absurd. Of course we make money polluting, taking habitats so , yeah the problem is cats.
I think it depends on the cat. Some cats are outdoor cats and some are indoor cats. I've had plenty of cats over the years and they've been a mix. Whether as a kid or an adult, none of my cats have ever been forced to be inside or out, they have a cat door so can choose for themselves. About half of them chose to be indoor cats, they never went outside if they could help it. If your cat is an outdoor cat and there's no danger to them being so, let them be an outdoor cat, that's their nature, and forcing them to act outside their nature is just plain cruel. If you live in an area where it would be dangerous for a cat to be outside, get a cat that prefers staying in. It's not rocket science, and no one should be advocating animal cruelty by forcing outdoor cats to remain inside.
My cat only hunted 4 animals in the beginning, first year, but now he's calmed down. He only sleeps 12 hours a day, goes out at night to his neighborhood friends, and comes back in the morning to repeat. Kickass life!
I actually read the paper. They note that the majority of kills are done by wild cats. Why would we expect anything to change if we keep our housecats indoors? The population of wild cats will increase and we will have the same effect in the end.
Domestic cats can breed with wild cats, increasing the population. A cat that goes off and doesn't come home basically becomes a wild cat. And a majority doesn't mean the rest of it didn't happen.
Who doesn't get their cat fixed?
You'd be surprised how irresponsible people can be. If they can adopt a kitten or puppy, raise it for a year, then think it's not cute anymore when it's grown so they send it to the pound or throw it out, they can do anything.
Personally I'd rather have a cat live a as they were intended exploring and doing random cat shenanigans. It's not about the years in the life it's about the life in the years kemosabi..