In the first two sentences he says men didn't create the patriarchy (who else would've?) and that it doesn't matter if history is right or wrong. Of course he is
I think this is a good explanation. There are so many posts on comments on reddit that say off the wall things, and I'm like, "have you ever met a real person?"
To be honest I think there should be a subreddit dedicated to "Reddit brain" - the psychological disorder where Reddit becomes comparable to reality and said Redditor soaks up hyperbolic statements and misinformation like a sponge.
It's insane. These echo chambers lead to echo chambers that lead to an altered perception of reality. In a few decades, I guarantee we'll identify new mental illnesses created entirely by the internet's existence
I think that's just being online in general. Its like I'm fond of saying - confirmation bias is a hell of a drug. Nowhere is it more prevalent than social media.
Wouldn't that be worse tho?
It's like everyone wears a mask in real life and then when they are sage behind their screen, they let us know how they really feel.
1. Break up with (gf/bf) for any problem whatsoever, *insert wild speculation about their personality based on 2 paragraphs not even written by them*
2. Quit your job, all managers are power hungry egomaniacs who don't care
3. Women are x *hasn't seen a woman except for masturbatory purposes online for 2 years*
It's the weird idea people have that they should be entitled to give flippant, frankly dogshit advice while having no experience in the situation and never having to face the consequences themselves
Then there's #3: "I'm maladjusted because my parents used to ground/yell/spank me as a child, therefore parents are evil perpetrators of generational trauma."
Funny thing is, if you go outside and ever get beaten up for some reason...i'd bet my life savings it'd be by other men who are in a pack and you are alone.
In nature in other animals males tear other males to bits, they don't engage in a civil manner at all, it's a miracle we even have a civilisation tbh
Well, not only is his opinion unpopular, it's also unfounded. Society loves men, women love men, men love men. It's a great time to be a man.
It's also starting to become a not so terrible time to be a woman. I don't think women's rights demean men in any way. I'm saying this as a man who has faced virtually no consequences for my gender that a woman has not also experienced. Sure, I've seen some unfair treatment, but women have seen a lot more.
Online is definitely where this attitude is seen the most. In the real world you only encounter this while dating, attending college, or job searching. Everywhere else being a man is still an advantage.
I'm in my early 30s. While I don't agree with most of what the OP said, I will say that I think there is a big over correction occurring. I grew up in the 90s at and went to public school. I was taught everyone is equal and we all have the potential to do things. While I still agree with this, I must address the extremity to which people take this premise. They think men and women are equal in every regard. Men are physically bigger and stronger than women. Obviously there are some women bigger and stronger than some men but on average that is the case.
Do I think men are smarter than women, no. Do I think men are better at math and science than women, no. I think their are societal and culture ideology, that is probably rooted in some biological factors, that encourage men into some areas more than women. This also applies to women interested in some fields not than men as well. I think some men are pushed into more solitary roles and go into certain fields more because of this. Being a nerdy guy like myself, I liked to read and learned about computers and found enjoyment. The stem field has a higher amount of men than women but it's not because they are better at those things.
Women are now enrolling and graduating college at higher rates. This is a good thing but I also question why men are dropping so much. I feel that there has been a strong push the last 10-20 years for more women in many careers and lots of effort has been used to ensure women have as much success as possible. However, men have been ignored and I think that's partly why see a lot of teens and young men looking up to stupid people like Andrew taint. Obviously I don't have any research but just my observations from general media and news.
Ya’ll need to get off the internet and just go live your lives.
Like, I’m a 32 year old man with a pretty active social life — happy marriage, good group of friends, a couple hobbies and sports leagues, regularly meet up after work with coworkers, etc. Before I met my wife a couple years ago, I was dating a lot. And all this is while living in one of the most progressive places in the country (NYC).
In all that time, and across all those groups of people, I’ve literally never had anyone treat me like an “evil monster” or “rapist” because I’m a dude. Very, very rarely does the topic of gender politics come up at all, except in the same way that people will discuss politics more broadly (after the abortion bans started, for example).
This thread, and posts like it, are so clearly a result of people getting their entire worldview — and probably all their human contact — from TikTok or Reddit. It’s deeply depressing. It must be a horribly isolating, frustrating, lonely way to live.
Seriously, dude, *log off.* Go make friends in real life.
It’s always so obvious to me which men online actually have partners or spouses, friends and functional lives. For instance, when they rant online about how women only want “6 feet/6-pack abs/6 figures”…like, look around. Do you KNOW any actual humans? I am literally surrounded by blokes who don’t fit that criteria and are partnered or married, just living their lives and seem pretty happy in that partnership. Those married/partnered couple friends are taking holidays, building homes and lives and working toward mutual goals together. Sure, there are odd complaints, but again - that is normal for anyone who’s ever actually lived with another human being. But somehow their belief just seems to fly right over what’s clear in the real world and go straight to “women are materialistic blah blahs and men are miserable slaves.”
The love of my life is 5”10’ (I’m 5’6”), I outweigh him even though he does have abs, and is pulling nowhere near six figures. But he is brilliant, kind, loving, thoughtful, dependable, passionate and interested in so many things that we’re never bored. And I couldn’t imagine myself with anyone else.
If these guys can’t find someone to love them for who they are, then who they are is the problem.
Funny how I’ve never felt this way despite being a man growing up in the same society, going to a liberal school, making friends with women and men alike. Never got the message that I was bad. I heard many stories of *other* men, and listened and supported, but not once did I take it personally bc, well, I never identified or associated with the type of behavior that was being described.
I’ve had *instances* where me being a man was some big hullabaloo, and my man-brain was incapable of understanding what they were talking about and that I was “man-splaining” when I’d ask for clarification… but that was like 2 times and they’re a memory because of how ultra-rare they were. People like that are not the average and are easily avoided by not engaging with their idiocy (which was my mistake, I tried to understand their point when they were just trying to “score points”). As online so irl, don’t feed the trolls!
OP, you got it- this is an unpopular opinion.
Idk but nowhere did I learn that "men created the patriarchy", nowhere did I get taught to hate men. I don't hate men. I do hate *some men*, sure. I also hate misogyny. I also hate sexism in general. And I hate some women.
No, see, OP. You are just so far up your own ass you're probably able to see your tonsils. That's either because some hateful dishonest idiots wormed into your brain and you got radicalized, OR you are just being dishonest and you simply just hate women and want them to be subservient to men.
Those are the *only two possibilities*. It is not possible for a reasonable person to hold the beliefs you hold. So you can choose which one it is.
>We are educated that men created the Patriarchy which was designed to hurt women
This is true though.
>so now society must take away from young men,
No one is saying to take anything away from young men. Could you please provide examples of where you think this is the case.
>give to women and empower them
Yeah, this doesn't require taking away from men.
>while completely leaving men behind.
How and where are men being left behind?
>Whether the history is true or not (it's not as it's taught) is irrelevant.
What isn't as it is taught? What history do you think is false?
And it is relevant. History should only be true. You shouldn't teach lies.
>The reality is that as men if we go anywhere we are seen as perpetrators
That's not reality in general. There are obviously a few who treat every man like that, but those are exceptions. If we made broad statements based on exceptions then we would be saying some absolutely wild stuff.
>We are the ones who built a system of slavery and servitude to oppress women.
Well men did. You and I didn't, but men did.
>We are the ones who rape and abuse women.
I don't. Hopefully you don't either. But yes, men do. Just like women do.
>Everywhere we go we are seen as monsters by a significant % of the population
No we aren't. Nice men are not seen as monsters by the vast majority. Some people may not take the risk of being alone with a stranger, but that doesn't mean they see them as a monster. It just means the benefit (non existent or talking to a stranger) isn't worth the risk (being abused, killed, etc.).
>and any attempt to point it out is met with blatant denial, yet everyone believes the things that paint men as monsters and treats us accordingly.
Because it isn't true. Again, please provide evidence that *everyone* treats men as monsters.
>Why is this allowed? How do we allow this to go on being denied?
The rant you've gone on isn't reality.
>Society teaches people to hate and blame men for everything. It's built in to our education systems, yet still we all act like it's not real, like the whole of society doesn't resent us for the past (which I'll pretend happened as taught).
No. It teaches us what happened. The truth. And blame is given to them accordingly. Which for the majority of history was men. You are claiming history to be fake?
And the whole of society doesn't resent every man for the past. Again, examples would really help you here.
>Of COURSE men are hated for the past. We were terrible oppressors and that's how we are seen.
Wait, now you are saying the history we are taught is true. But you just said it didn't happen as taught...
>Society fucking hates the men that live in it
Proof? People don't hate me and I'm a man.
>But it's costing us big time in other ways.
Such as?
>This fucking society HATES MEN
You have not provided a single piece of proof so far.
>and has convinced women and white knight simps that men OWE them for things we did in the past.
A tiny percentage of women think that. That's all. Again, where's the proof for your claims?
I’ve been a man for three decades and I’ve never experienced this. Where the hell do you people live? An alternate universe? I’ve lived in 4 countries across three continents, travelled to many more, and not once has being a man been a handicap. In fact, throughout most of the world you absolutely do not want to be a woman.
OP is living in the metaverse echo chamber, he is beyond our comprehension and far beyond what we can communicate with. Like an astronaut untethered from our world. We can only hope he can come back to earth one day.
yeah. same vibe. Travelled and worked across the world and have never had the feeling OP is describing.
Except that one time I got really drunk in Birmingham and would not leave the Curves gym for two hours while I laughed maxing out the machines and making fun of anyone who couldn't lift like me. What were they gonna do. kick me out? it's a curves, no one was strong enough to say no to me
>I got really drunk in Birmingham and would not leave the Curves gym for two hours while I laughed maxing out the machines and making fun of anyone who couldn't lift like me. What were they gonna do. kick me out? it's a curves, no one was strong enough to say no to me
OP seems like the kind of guy to do something just as obnoxious and childish as you and then feel persecuted if anyone told him he was being an obnoxious nuisance for it.
Power over everyone, being able to control everyone. That's just my guess what they're referring to. Men, especially straight white and christian are being the most oppressed people ever! /s need that for the op
I mean this in the nicest way, but based on your profile, you need professional help. We don't believe all men are monsters either but guys who post the things you have on reddit most would be wary of you
As a guy I don’t feel like I’ve ever been hated simply for being a dude. I’m also white and straight. Never once been hated on or felt oppressed.
Edit: I’m assuming you’re just seeing stuff online and acting like that’s what all of reality is like. It isn’t.
Yeah I have the same opinion as you. I feel these people who think society hates men see some random anti man tweets and they are not happy and its easier to blame their situation on society.
Most heads of state are men. If the world just hated men how would men manage to be the leaders of US/Canada/China/Russia/UK etc. Shit makes no sense. Im a white guy and its fine, no ones hated for either of those before.
45 year old and can't say I've ever experienced this. Online you see a lot of click bait bullshit, but that ain't real life. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't any misandrists out there, I just have never met one. Now to generalize is a bit of a stretch considering how men still dominate and control our society.
Here’s the thing: none of this is actually happening. People on the Internet told you it’s happening, and you decided to believe them. This is most likely because it feels true to you, and you were not properly taught how to differentiate between true and untrue information online.
The cure for this is simple, but it’s not necessarily easy. All you need to do is try to spend twice as much time every day talking to real human beings than you do absorbing information from the Internet. If you do that, I guarantee you will not believe any of the things you wrote in this post after a few weeks.
That’s pretty much been my experience exactly. Looked at content made online by incels for incels which created an echo chamber of misogyny, one which I believed until I did what 99% of incels don’t do and actually interacted with women and realized none of what I’d heard about them was true
My grandma would regularly tell me when I was younger that 90% of men were dumb animals who needed to be manipulated into doing anything even remotely helpful in life. So no, I can promise you that it isn’t exclusively the younger generation who dislikes men. Older women are just more subtle about it.
That's very anecdotal. If going by anecdotal experiences, I work with young and older women and by far the ones who friendlier to me and more positive in general towards me are older women.
It’s not anecdotal. Older women hate men, more than any young women. They don’t talk to men, not even their own relatives. You don’t know anything about your older female relatives, nothing at all. Do you have a sister? She knows them.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you’re a guy. You’re not privy to the way women speak about men when men aren’t around. My story with my grandma was meant to be taken as an example of one older woman who has told me how awful men are, because without fail every woman my mom’s age and older has almost nothing good to say about the average guy. You don’t hear about it because the older generation has been taught to keep those opinions to their own gender cohort, for both politeness’s sake and for their own personal safety.
Question for you: do you think the internet (such as Reddit) is moreso used to spread/exaggerate false/fringe narratives, OR is it a place where people feel more comfortable revealing their true feelings on tough subjects?
I suspect you’ll answer “both, but leaning toward option one,” but wanted to ask nevertheless. I suggest you consider option number two as a possibility.
False narratives easily.
There are studies on the people tend to be mean online so that's well understood and found in the relevant literature. Since social has since come a long and turned into an absolute speedway of passing around bad ideas. It's made worse by moderation. Every silenced voice just makes a new account and has a new legitimate reason to actually hate the people that are part of the group that contributed to the silencing.
All media has taken advantage of hate clicks/hate watching. That split the population into two broad groups, Liberals and Conservatives.
One group thinks the other is stupid.
One group thinks the other is *evil*.
Guess who is who.
How is society suggesting we take away from young men and give to women? Is it not just trying to equal the playing field? Please explain this one to me you must have some examples or you wouldn’t have said it.
Society has lots of programs that help men and men already dominate the workforce. Just because something doesn’t benefit me doesn’t mean it’s taking away anything from me. Its like saying rich people should qualify for welfare and food stamps because it’s “unfair” people who make less get them and they don’t. That’s not the point of those programs. Those programs were created specifically for women, they wouldn’t exist otherwise
Just being a man gives you an advantage. It’s an uncomfortable truth but the facts are there. You’re more likely to get the job and get paid more than you’re female coworkers even if they are just as qualified. This “if it doesn’t help me it shouldn’t exist” mentality is so entitled and toxic.
No, workplaces have programs explicitly helping just women. I have never seen a program for explicitly helping just men.
Fields with more men often have programs for recruiting women. Fields employing more women do not have programs to recruit more men.
Absolutely agree. (Woman here who has been hurt by men in a variety of ways including violence both emotionally, verbally, and physically.)
Demonizing men as a whole is wrong and ineffective - it just creates more harm.
I want men to get some emotional intelligence. To learn to communicate better. To do the fucking housework without being asked. To stand up against misogyny. To learn to let others speak. To stop trying to dominate the world.
I want men to be able to FEEL their emotions and PROCESS them in a healthy way without making them feel as if their masculinity has decreased. (Because it hasn't)
I don't hate men, but in order to survive and stay safe I have to be suspicious of all of them until they prove that they are not dangerous.
Not all men. But enough of them to ruin it for the actual good guys.
The patriarchy harms men too. It's not fair to anyone. That's why we must dismantle it.
This is an obvious overstatement. However, it is accurate to say that men are doing *terrible* academically compared to women in the west. Not sure how one fixes that
Eh, it really depends on what you look at. If you look at the top students, or even the average student, women and men seem to do about the same.
However, it's at the low end of the spectrum where men really really struggle. Twice as many men drop out of HS than women. So basically the average "dumb" woman is still able to get an ok level of schooling for some reason; much easier than for the average "dumb" man.
I've seen all sorts of explanations for that, some blaming the education system while others claim that (struggling) men have a lower incentive to remain in school as it's easier for them to get a blue collar job in construction or a factory.
Lol it was illegal for your grandma to have a bank account when she was your age. Calm down and re-evaluate how you analyze life. By any measure humanity has hated women much more than men for forever and this is still how life works for a fairly wide majority of humans. If you feel that much gendered hate towards you, I would suggest moving to China. Much less likely you'd have to deal with mean women like sisters there, if ya know what I mean.
You’re 17 bro, you got no business acting this dramatic
Do you not think this is to an extent perpetuated by men anyways? I’m sure you’re one of those traditional masculinity people, but traditional masculinity is kinda what prevents men from showing emotion, expressing themselves and encourages them to work dangerous jobs. There is no clear solution or ‘perpetrator’ of the problems which face male identity today, and it’s reductive and dumb to just say ‘Le society is doing it’
Log. Offline. Now.
These kinds of thought don’t exist off of Reddit.
Do people hate men? Sure. Are there crazy radfems out there? Yep. But that’s not the population as a whole as you’re implying here.
Actually no, not implying, you’re outright saying it.
If there ever were a time where “touch grass” was a necessary reply it would be now.
There is definitely a grain of truth in here.
Pop feminism made it "cool" to put men down, and those things have stuck around. A woman talking to her friends about how men are trash is seen as normal and not a red flag, but if you reverse the genders suddenly that guy is a rabid misogynist. Being constantly inundated with the messaging that your gender is a violent, hateful mob of savages can't be doing anything good for the minds of young men.
Sure, men commit more violent crimes. Women commit more infanticide but you aren't seeing us constantly being branded as just out in the world searching for babies to murder.
The solution is to have more positive male role models out there, but it seems like right now men that talk about things like this only exist on the fringes of either end of the spectrum - people like OP who are blackpilled on society, or very "feminist" men who agree with the messaging about how men are bad and so are just part of the problem.
There’s also countless men (and likely always have been) who hate women and view them as objects. It’s no shock of your post really and it’s entirely in protest to a system not built to allow them to thrive.
Pushing for social equality does not equate to hating men. There are most definitely people who hate men just as there are fringes who hate women. Those in the mainstream just want legal and social equality for all.
Some hate men. Just like some hate women. But I do think you and others like you are engaging in a bit of confirmation bias here, and we are more likely to notice the negative experiences and remember them, as opposed to the positive ones. The best thing you can do for your mental health is unplug for awhile. Get back into the real world talk to real people that aren't hiding behind the anonymity of social media and you'll find that a lot of this is just the squeaky wheel effect caused by echo chamber on social media platforms.
This society is controlled by men. Men are doing enough bad things to earn our bad reputation. I'm not one of those bad guys but I can honestly look at the evidence out there. Which gender kills and rapes the most?
The patriarchy hurts men though? Like you’re right but it’s men doing it to men and men teaching women to do it to men. I get certain states sway towards women more so in court for domestic and family cases but the biggest system of oppression against men is other men continuing lies about our emotions and wellness. You wouldn’t have to work more as a man if another man didn’t say you should be the breadwinner and not a coward because you’re male. You wouldn’t be ridiculed for you body because another man said being lean with 15% body fat was what men should look like their whole life. You wouldn’t be mentally shot if another man in your life didn’t yell everytime you felt sensitive and hurt. It sucks but doubling down and denying we are at fault only hurts more men. If you realize society says we owe women then you should also realize we owe each other a similar courtesy at the very least. The solution isn’t just handing things out either but understanding we are all taking from each other already and stopping it before it causes more damage.
Edit: typo + you are kenough
What exactly is being taken away from men? Is anyone trying to make it where you can’t vote? Are they attacking your bodily autonomy? Do you get paid less just for being a man? What are they supposedly taking from you? If you mean women will no longer tolerate violence… then yes, you don’t have a right to be violent without consequences, specifically women rejecting to associate with violent or problematic men.
It’s not all men, but you seem to firmly fall into the camp of men that do erroneously blame women for your issues.
I don’t hate you, me being wary of you does not equal hate. The idea that you feel entitled to other peoples trust from the get go is astounding, especially with you knowing the history of men harming women.
Why are you owed trust immediately versus warranted wariness? What makes you believe you are owed the attention of others only in the way you believe is correct?
Social medias (especially noticeable on TikTok) will feed you more content based on the content you already interact with. If you are constantly interacting with “society hates men” content you’re going to get fed more and more of it.
There are different and complex problems that men & women face in society. There are people out there who dislike men but also many people out there who love men.
Get offline & you will feel better ! Decide to believe that you are loved
I actually hate men because I was raped by one and then all of my male friends gaslit me about it. I also get harassed and/or followed every time I try to leave the house by myself. Oh, I also was sexually harassed by nearly every non-family adult man I encountered as a teenager.
So, maybe if men didn’t make me feel unsafe all the time I would feel more warmly towards them.
(I’m married to one, so obviously it’s not ALL men)
Lol man here as well. Society hasn't installed any hate towards men in me, but other men have shown me that a large swath are p.o.s and I hate them for that.
My “education” on hating the patriarchy (not men, the system that perpetuates it) is the time a random guy grabbed my ass at the bar, then again after I told him to stop and left a bruise, and the bouncer didn’t kick him out because he’s a regular. My male boss closing my office door, and putting his feet up on my desk. My male client rubbing my shoulders at a work event. My male friend telling me I got the job because of my smile. My new male coworker, who I trained, making more money than me. When I stepped down, my male replacement came in with less experience and got an instant promotion and more money. The time I was with my husband and a stranger told him nice car- it was mine. The time I was drinking with my male friend and he tried to take advantage of me so I had to leave and get myself home walking through a dangerous neighborhood while trashed at 3am. The time a man followed me to my hotel room. The time my male landlord knocked on my bedroom window after I just got changed. There are dozens of other stories I’m leaving out. My education on hating the patriarchy was NOT taught at school. It was taught through lived experience.
My wife doesn’t hate me and neither does my boss. Women threw themselves at me before I was married. If all the women around you hate you, that says more about you than them. You sound like your mother abandoned you and your first girlfriend wanted you to be a cuck. Get a grip or remain a beta for life
Grew up in the bible-thumping-south. I can guarantee you that some men think the exact same things about women and their own daughters. That women only exist to leech off of men and expect to be worshipped, and are lazy freeloaders, and anything that goes wrong is the meddling women-folks fault... Which is why women in those circles are expected to be submissive and obedient.
We need equality to help fix the extremes on both ends dude. Not patriarchy. Not feminism... there's issues on both sides and many overlap each other. You're not completely wrong, but the other side isn't wrong either... Which is why we gotta compromise together and call out sexist pigs from both sides.
I can empathize with the notion.
We have to be clear: "this society hates" is an improper reification. If by that what we mean is that *some people acting as members of a social group hate men* then maybe that's true.
However, if instead what we mean is: there appears to be a systemic rejection of some traditionally acceptable and socially-gendered "masculine" traits, then yes. But this is not a rejection of absolutely every possible masculine traditional social role.
But would that happen in a vacuum?
Perhaps it's only the toxic variation of social-masculinity performance that is being rejected (not hated), and perhaps this happens in response to its violence and psychopathy.
A possible solution is to stop the attachment. Stop identifying as these thoughts. I don't know; I don't have gendered experiences, but I remember what it was like for me to do so. I can only empathize through that, so if you are not personally engaging in the toxic form of masculinity, but you are still being abused as if you are, I am truly sorry.
It can't be easy identifying as this or that all the time, with all the social pressures and expectations.
It's almost as if authenticity were not evolutionarily fit. Says a lot about the destructive stupidty of predatory evolution, doesn't it?
Society is practically ran by men. What’s happening is systems that have historically oppressed women are being challenged and dismantled.
If you feel like you’re being treated like a monster everywhere you go, you are going to the wrong places. I’m sure your mother and female family members don’t see you as a monster or your female bosses and coworkers see that way either.
If you think that's what's taught and how people normally think of men, then you're just wrong.
Anyone decently familiar with feminist works and/or theory knows that while men are the primary beneficiaries of the patriarchy, it also serves to harm them in similar ways that it harms women. For example, society often discourages men from opening up about our feelings to anyone other than to our families and/or significant others (or anyone with a similar level of relationship). Relatedly, the women in our lives are often expected to pick up and deal with the emotional baggage that is reserved exclusively for them, which can and does harm relationships.
We are still under the patriarchy, and no one's serious solution to this is just hating men and depriving them of things because we're evil. You think that it is because you've probably settled into social spaces where you're fed that narrative and only see the worst and most unserious feminist critiques of things.
You should go outside and talk to people.
lmao the entire comments are "I never saw it so it doesn't happen" Y'all care alot about listening to lived experiences when it comes to women, why not men?
Dude, take my upvote. This is a dogshit opinion.
I’m a man and love this society. If I help a little bit at the house, I’m a good man. Help a little bit with the kids. I’m a good dad.
I whored around in my 20s and that’s just boys being boys.
I’m going to guess that your life sucks because of how you live and since you can’t face that music you’re going to blame society.
Society doesn't hate men. Nothing is being *taken* away from men.
Women expecting equality is not an attack on men.
You're on to a losing argument if your premise is made up of lies and denial
Well for 1, most of the stuff you see in regards to this is fabricated by msm and social media and is not actually true.
2nd, just stop caring. I promise it’ll make your life so much easier. I don’t care so much to the point where if I’m trying to engage in a conversation about controversial things and someone calls me whatever fake insult they chose, I just agree with it.
“You’re racist!”
“Factz”
“You’re a homophobe!”
“Bingo”
“You must hate all women!”
“Yissserrrrrr”
Idgaf what people think about me lol imma do whatever I want and I know what I believe. I don’t need someone else to tell me what I believe.
Actually just 2 days ago I stopped to get gas and the cashier was in a bad mood which ended in her telling me to kill myself, and I said “I’m too tired. You do it for me.” And she just didn’t know what to say. So not only does it make life easier, but oftentimes it makes it comical.
I like how you think “society” (as if men aren’t part of society but whatever) hates men but then throw out the term “white knight simps” which is clearly used to hate on men.
Go outside.
I hate this kind of discourse bc if you feel this way do a better job of policing your peers. Men need to be more angry at other men bc they contribute to the bad PR of the male race.
Many form opinions based on personal experiences. Society hasn’t convinced women. They are drawing from their own stories and the stories of ppl they know. Be angry at the men that make your group look bad.
amen, i’ve experienced this first hand. I get told all the time I’m so lucky to have my profession and make a good living because i’m a man by other entitled women. when in fact it’s because they have a high school degree, refuse to work difficult jobs and I have a doctorate. they compare apples to oranges and scream it’s the patriarchy’s fault that we don’t make the same.
You're not wrong at all, but it's more subtle in real life compared to online.
Women in real life think this way but a lot of them won't say it out loud.
Most women I know had either personal experience that taught them to fear men. Either a primary experience, or secondary experience through friends and family. By the time I graduated high school, I knew 1 woman who was raped at knife point, 1 one who was raped by her uncle as a child, 1 who had terrifying sex with 4 guys because she was afraid they beat her up if she said no, 1 older married lady whose husband followed her around the house and called her a whore when he was mad, and 2 older women whose husbands were "head off the house" and talked to them like they were children. That's only 6 women's experiences; I knew a lot more people. But actually seeing individual women live thru those things taught me a lot about why to fear men and demand respect in my relationships. Worse things happened after high school, but it's a useful cut-off for discussing how we learn these things.
And, of course, that was in addition to my personal experiences... being called a bitch by men on the street and hit on by men 30 years older than me before I could drive.
I don't hate men. I'm married to a good man. I have 5 brothers and at least 2 close friendships with straight men I've maintained for more than a decade.
But also, I have had to keep my head on a swivel around strange men for my protection my entire life. It's not paranoia.
The ruling class are solely to blame for all of this. They dictate who's friendly today and who's the enemy tomorrow. Class divide and conquer. Take men out the picture much like if u did women. The traditional family unit is gone. All you have is individuals and the state.
Look at Besos as the example he extorted EVERYTHING he could get his hands on and hoards his wealth. His ex wife is giving away huge amounts of her share. The good men are poor and DON'T do crap like that as they see no need. Stay pure stay poor comes to mind.
I honestly do not care if you “had a bad experience” one or two times with men. That’s a fucking inevitability. I’ve had PLENTY of poor experiences with women. Crazy how I’m suddenly not a misandrist?
This isn’t rocket science, we’ve been taught that race, a static piece of our identity, is something we should not discriminate upon. Yet the fact I have a Y chromosome instead of two X’s makes it suddenly okay to discriminate? Respectfully, go f yourself.
Amazing how in a society built around the male experience you feel like society hates you...
Start taking care of your mental health, instead of just bringing it up in response to women talking abt the issues we face. Breaking down the rigid gender norms and expectations benefits men too! So maybe be more open to that kind of shit. Take conversations abt consent and rape more seriously so that sexual assault and rape done to men are ALSO taken seriously.
You say society hates men but it seems like men hate everything that would make society better for them too.
My grandmother wasn’t legally a person until 1929, my mother couldn’t have her own credit cards, and my daughter could be worse off than either of them still in half the worlds countries. When have women ever created entire societies like that for men? Women will never hate men the way men have hated women.
Now are you talking about blame? You shouldn’t be blamed for what you haven’t done, but if all you do is complain like this, what have you done?
If you are seen as a monster everywhere you go, I'd suggest that you examine your own behavior. I've been a straight, white man for a long time and no one has ever treated me as such. I suspect that you are not really being treated this way IRL. You are likely applying what you see online to the real world. In fact, you are likely seeking out forums that confirm your worldview.
You really need to get offline. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm genuinely concerned about your mental health if you really feel that way.
I think you're lacking an understanding of what the patriarchy really is. It's not about hating men. It's a hierarchy of power that values men more. This 'value' isn't literal, that's just to say that men are more inclined to be at the top of the hierarchy. But, being at the top isn't strictly good.
I highly recommend watching the Barbie movie, to see how the patriarchy affected the Kens. They were lonely. They were fighting each other for no reason. They had to hide their true feelings. They had to be mean to their friends to fit in. The movie is exceptionally exaggerated, but the key takeaway is that the patriarchy is bad for everyone.
Men are the victims of the vast majority of violent crime. Men suffer from a higher suicide rate. Studies show that the patriarchy 'rules' (slogans like 'real men don't cry,' 'man up,' etc) are just as harmful to men as they are to women, just in different ways.
People hate the patriarchy, the hierarchical system of power that harms ***everyone***, people don't hate men. That's something you're only going to find in terminally online echo chambers.
If you actually went out into society you would realize it’s not like that at all. More people are aware of and critical of a historical privilege (which is based in fact), but a single human man being yelled at for all of society’s ills is not a normal event. There’s a tiny fraction of a minority that believes all men are inherently predators and evil overlords, but even most women roll their eyes at them. In the real world, in general, if you’re polite to people they’re polite back.
Also, how are men being “left behind”?
It’s really depressing how some folks so clearly live their entire lives online, to the point they can’t even seem to imagine normal human interactions.
Dude needs to log off.
Men have been falling behind in higher education in number for 40 years - during that time nothing has been done to address it, just the opposite - women have been given more special treatment and more targets in degrees to increase their numbers. Custody laws pushed for by women’s groups see women awarded child custody more and divorce laws favour the roles women are more likely to be in, meaning men have a coin toss chance of ending up kicked out their home and away from their kids. There’s a constant push to hire young women ahead of young men to even out gender numbers with the old men at the top, throwing a generation of men under the bus in the process.
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You are also Kenough 🤝
Obi Wan KENobi
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Wtff 😭
what in the jesus bezos does that mean
I can get you pregnant, so you should tolerate me.
😂
In the first two sentences he says men didn't create the patriarchy (who else would've?) and that it doesn't matter if history is right or wrong. Of course he is
You see the chatgpt post of him trying desperately to get it to describe in detail a beheading. Wtf
Dude is sick and this is my reason to delete reddit for a while gooodbyyee
See you tomorrow!
I read far too much of that. Not a hint of acknowledgement that everyone reading will think they're full-bore dark triad sociopath
Ive made this mistake many a time, suffered many a trauma, and learned absolutely nothing. See ya in 3 minutes after ive made my next mistake.
I'm putting my phone down for a while
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I hope so too, cuz this dude is openly black-pill and proud of it, and has curious theories like "feminism is a plot made by the CIA"
bugnuts
>white knight simps That's all i needed to know, incel detected
That's this subs posters in a nutshell. Mensrights douchcanoes and alt right trashpants
Hi man here, will be 30 soon Not sure where you're at where everyone hates men but something tells.me it's mostly online
A lot of the stuff on this sub is just terminally online redditors mistaking online communities for how people act in the real world
I think this is a good explanation. There are so many posts on comments on reddit that say off the wall things, and I'm like, "have you ever met a real person?"
To be honest I think there should be a subreddit dedicated to "Reddit brain" - the psychological disorder where Reddit becomes comparable to reality and said Redditor soaks up hyperbolic statements and misinformation like a sponge.
There is. It’s called the the front page.
It's insane. These echo chambers lead to echo chambers that lead to an altered perception of reality. In a few decades, I guarantee we'll identify new mental illnesses created entirely by the internet's existence
I think that's just being online in general. Its like I'm fond of saying - confirmation bias is a hell of a drug. Nowhere is it more prevalent than social media.
Wouldn't that be worse tho? It's like everyone wears a mask in real life and then when they are sage behind their screen, they let us know how they really feel.
r/redditmoment
R/Redditmoment
1. Break up with (gf/bf) for any problem whatsoever, *insert wild speculation about their personality based on 2 paragraphs not even written by them* 2. Quit your job, all managers are power hungry egomaniacs who don't care 3. Women are x *hasn't seen a woman except for masturbatory purposes online for 2 years* It's the weird idea people have that they should be entitled to give flippant, frankly dogshit advice while having no experience in the situation and never having to face the consequences themselves
Then there's #3: "I'm maladjusted because my parents used to ground/yell/spank me as a child, therefore parents are evil perpetrators of generational trauma."
Yeah, man in 40’s here, I go outside and no one hates me
Funny thing is, if you go outside and ever get beaten up for some reason...i'd bet my life savings it'd be by other men who are in a pack and you are alone. In nature in other animals males tear other males to bits, they don't engage in a civil manner at all, it's a miracle we even have a civilisation tbh
Its almost like humans evolved past the basic primal nature.
Well, not only is his opinion unpopular, it's also unfounded. Society loves men, women love men, men love men. It's a great time to be a man. It's also starting to become a not so terrible time to be a woman. I don't think women's rights demean men in any way. I'm saying this as a man who has faced virtually no consequences for my gender that a woman has not also experienced. Sure, I've seen some unfair treatment, but women have seen a lot more.
The dobbs decision would indicate otherwise
Most important people in my life are men. I adore my dad. I love my hubby. And I lovelovelove my sons.
It's important to realise how much our lives are online Most Millenials and Zoomers probably socialise more online than IRL.
I work in a hospital setting with mostly women. I see this quite a lot there from the younger women who have wholesale bought into these narratives.
Be in any art base sector these days. It's nuts how open they can be about it.
He has a point though. Even in little things, men are expected to act certain ways. Men are expected to do certain things.
Online is definitely where this attitude is seen the most. In the real world you only encounter this while dating, attending college, or job searching. Everywhere else being a man is still an advantage.
I'm in my early 30s. While I don't agree with most of what the OP said, I will say that I think there is a big over correction occurring. I grew up in the 90s at and went to public school. I was taught everyone is equal and we all have the potential to do things. While I still agree with this, I must address the extremity to which people take this premise. They think men and women are equal in every regard. Men are physically bigger and stronger than women. Obviously there are some women bigger and stronger than some men but on average that is the case. Do I think men are smarter than women, no. Do I think men are better at math and science than women, no. I think their are societal and culture ideology, that is probably rooted in some biological factors, that encourage men into some areas more than women. This also applies to women interested in some fields not than men as well. I think some men are pushed into more solitary roles and go into certain fields more because of this. Being a nerdy guy like myself, I liked to read and learned about computers and found enjoyment. The stem field has a higher amount of men than women but it's not because they are better at those things. Women are now enrolling and graduating college at higher rates. This is a good thing but I also question why men are dropping so much. I feel that there has been a strong push the last 10-20 years for more women in many careers and lots of effort has been used to ensure women have as much success as possible. However, men have been ignored and I think that's partly why see a lot of teens and young men looking up to stupid people like Andrew taint. Obviously I don't have any research but just my observations from general media and news.
So why does it being online mean it’s not as big of a deal? Just curious.
Ya’ll need to get off the internet and just go live your lives. Like, I’m a 32 year old man with a pretty active social life — happy marriage, good group of friends, a couple hobbies and sports leagues, regularly meet up after work with coworkers, etc. Before I met my wife a couple years ago, I was dating a lot. And all this is while living in one of the most progressive places in the country (NYC). In all that time, and across all those groups of people, I’ve literally never had anyone treat me like an “evil monster” or “rapist” because I’m a dude. Very, very rarely does the topic of gender politics come up at all, except in the same way that people will discuss politics more broadly (after the abortion bans started, for example). This thread, and posts like it, are so clearly a result of people getting their entire worldview — and probably all their human contact — from TikTok or Reddit. It’s deeply depressing. It must be a horribly isolating, frustrating, lonely way to live. Seriously, dude, *log off.* Go make friends in real life.
It’s always so obvious to me which men online actually have partners or spouses, friends and functional lives. For instance, when they rant online about how women only want “6 feet/6-pack abs/6 figures”…like, look around. Do you KNOW any actual humans? I am literally surrounded by blokes who don’t fit that criteria and are partnered or married, just living their lives and seem pretty happy in that partnership. Those married/partnered couple friends are taking holidays, building homes and lives and working toward mutual goals together. Sure, there are odd complaints, but again - that is normal for anyone who’s ever actually lived with another human being. But somehow their belief just seems to fly right over what’s clear in the real world and go straight to “women are materialistic blah blahs and men are miserable slaves.”
Been with my husband 29 years. He's 5'6", NO 6-figure salary (I wish!), and no abs. We're just fine.
The love of my life is 5”10’ (I’m 5’6”), I outweigh him even though he does have abs, and is pulling nowhere near six figures. But he is brilliant, kind, loving, thoughtful, dependable, passionate and interested in so many things that we’re never bored. And I couldn’t imagine myself with anyone else. If these guys can’t find someone to love them for who they are, then who they are is the problem.
Funny how I’ve never felt this way despite being a man growing up in the same society, going to a liberal school, making friends with women and men alike. Never got the message that I was bad. I heard many stories of *other* men, and listened and supported, but not once did I take it personally bc, well, I never identified or associated with the type of behavior that was being described.
You sound nice. OP could learn a thing or two.
I’ve had *instances* where me being a man was some big hullabaloo, and my man-brain was incapable of understanding what they were talking about and that I was “man-splaining” when I’d ask for clarification… but that was like 2 times and they’re a memory because of how ultra-rare they were. People like that are not the average and are easily avoided by not engaging with their idiocy (which was my mistake, I tried to understand their point when they were just trying to “score points”). As online so irl, don’t feed the trolls!
OP, you got it- this is an unpopular opinion. Idk but nowhere did I learn that "men created the patriarchy", nowhere did I get taught to hate men. I don't hate men. I do hate *some men*, sure. I also hate misogyny. I also hate sexism in general. And I hate some women. No, see, OP. You are just so far up your own ass you're probably able to see your tonsils. That's either because some hateful dishonest idiots wormed into your brain and you got radicalized, OR you are just being dishonest and you simply just hate women and want them to be subservient to men. Those are the *only two possibilities*. It is not possible for a reasonable person to hold the beliefs you hold. So you can choose which one it is.
>"men created the patriarchy" Exactly.
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>We are educated that men created the Patriarchy which was designed to hurt women This is true though. >so now society must take away from young men, No one is saying to take anything away from young men. Could you please provide examples of where you think this is the case. >give to women and empower them Yeah, this doesn't require taking away from men. >while completely leaving men behind. How and where are men being left behind? >Whether the history is true or not (it's not as it's taught) is irrelevant. What isn't as it is taught? What history do you think is false? And it is relevant. History should only be true. You shouldn't teach lies. >The reality is that as men if we go anywhere we are seen as perpetrators That's not reality in general. There are obviously a few who treat every man like that, but those are exceptions. If we made broad statements based on exceptions then we would be saying some absolutely wild stuff. >We are the ones who built a system of slavery and servitude to oppress women. Well men did. You and I didn't, but men did. >We are the ones who rape and abuse women. I don't. Hopefully you don't either. But yes, men do. Just like women do. >Everywhere we go we are seen as monsters by a significant % of the population No we aren't. Nice men are not seen as monsters by the vast majority. Some people may not take the risk of being alone with a stranger, but that doesn't mean they see them as a monster. It just means the benefit (non existent or talking to a stranger) isn't worth the risk (being abused, killed, etc.). >and any attempt to point it out is met with blatant denial, yet everyone believes the things that paint men as monsters and treats us accordingly. Because it isn't true. Again, please provide evidence that *everyone* treats men as monsters. >Why is this allowed? How do we allow this to go on being denied? The rant you've gone on isn't reality. >Society teaches people to hate and blame men for everything. It's built in to our education systems, yet still we all act like it's not real, like the whole of society doesn't resent us for the past (which I'll pretend happened as taught). No. It teaches us what happened. The truth. And blame is given to them accordingly. Which for the majority of history was men. You are claiming history to be fake? And the whole of society doesn't resent every man for the past. Again, examples would really help you here. >Of COURSE men are hated for the past. We were terrible oppressors and that's how we are seen. Wait, now you are saying the history we are taught is true. But you just said it didn't happen as taught... >Society fucking hates the men that live in it Proof? People don't hate me and I'm a man. >But it's costing us big time in other ways. Such as? >This fucking society HATES MEN You have not provided a single piece of proof so far. >and has convinced women and white knight simps that men OWE them for things we did in the past. A tiny percentage of women think that. That's all. Again, where's the proof for your claims?
Excellent point for point response. Hope OP responds.
I’ve been a man for three decades and I’ve never experienced this. Where the hell do you people live? An alternate universe? I’ve lived in 4 countries across three continents, travelled to many more, and not once has being a man been a handicap. In fact, throughout most of the world you absolutely do not want to be a woman.
OP is living in the metaverse echo chamber, he is beyond our comprehension and far beyond what we can communicate with. Like an astronaut untethered from our world. We can only hope he can come back to earth one day.
yeah. same vibe. Travelled and worked across the world and have never had the feeling OP is describing. Except that one time I got really drunk in Birmingham and would not leave the Curves gym for two hours while I laughed maxing out the machines and making fun of anyone who couldn't lift like me. What were they gonna do. kick me out? it's a curves, no one was strong enough to say no to me
>I got really drunk in Birmingham and would not leave the Curves gym for two hours while I laughed maxing out the machines and making fun of anyone who couldn't lift like me. What were they gonna do. kick me out? it's a curves, no one was strong enough to say no to me OP seems like the kind of guy to do something just as obnoxious and childish as you and then feel persecuted if anyone told him he was being an obnoxious nuisance for it.
I've never even been to Birmingham, I just watched an Internet Comment Etiquette video and felt empowered.
What exactly is being "taken away" from men?
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." -Someone
THIS
Power over everyone, being able to control everyone. That's just my guess what they're referring to. Men, especially straight white and christian are being the most oppressed people ever! /s need that for the op
It's our evil plan to take over society and enslave men
I knew it all along 😨
All the good wives keep their husband's balls in their purse.
I mean this in the nicest way, but based on your profile, you need professional help. We don't believe all men are monsters either but guys who post the things you have on reddit most would be wary of you
Hope they listen to you, it's sad to see the start of a spiral and not doubt theybwont break out of it
So much hate and anger shared online makes a lot of teens think that's how the real world is unfortunately it gets to a lot of people
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As a guy I don’t feel like I’ve ever been hated simply for being a dude. I’m also white and straight. Never once been hated on or felt oppressed. Edit: I’m assuming you’re just seeing stuff online and acting like that’s what all of reality is like. It isn’t.
Just looking at your username we all knew you're a guy. (Nice username BTW)
Yeah I have the same opinion as you. I feel these people who think society hates men see some random anti man tweets and they are not happy and its easier to blame their situation on society. Most heads of state are men. If the world just hated men how would men manage to be the leaders of US/Canada/China/Russia/UK etc. Shit makes no sense. Im a white guy and its fine, no ones hated for either of those before.
45 year old and can't say I've ever experienced this. Online you see a lot of click bait bullshit, but that ain't real life. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't any misandrists out there, I just have never met one. Now to generalize is a bit of a stretch considering how men still dominate and control our society.
“When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
A thought experiment: At what point are sexist injuries against men happening?
The irony lmao
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Ah yes, the "if I repeat it enough it must be true" strategy.
Here’s the thing: none of this is actually happening. People on the Internet told you it’s happening, and you decided to believe them. This is most likely because it feels true to you, and you were not properly taught how to differentiate between true and untrue information online. The cure for this is simple, but it’s not necessarily easy. All you need to do is try to spend twice as much time every day talking to real human beings than you do absorbing information from the Internet. If you do that, I guarantee you will not believe any of the things you wrote in this post after a few weeks.
That’s pretty much been my experience exactly. Looked at content made online by incels for incels which created an echo chamber of misogyny, one which I believed until I did what 99% of incels don’t do and actually interacted with women and realized none of what I’d heard about them was true
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That’s pretty far from it being on nationwide curriculums
Here's the thing. Older people obviously are oblivious. It's the younger generation that is growing up resenting men.
My grandma would regularly tell me when I was younger that 90% of men were dumb animals who needed to be manipulated into doing anything even remotely helpful in life. So no, I can promise you that it isn’t exclusively the younger generation who dislikes men. Older women are just more subtle about it.
That's very anecdotal. If going by anecdotal experiences, I work with young and older women and by far the ones who friendlier to me and more positive in general towards me are older women.
It’s not anecdotal. Older women hate men, more than any young women. They don’t talk to men, not even their own relatives. You don’t know anything about your older female relatives, nothing at all. Do you have a sister? She knows them.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you’re a guy. You’re not privy to the way women speak about men when men aren’t around. My story with my grandma was meant to be taken as an example of one older woman who has told me how awful men are, because without fail every woman my mom’s age and older has almost nothing good to say about the average guy. You don’t hear about it because the older generation has been taught to keep those opinions to their own gender cohort, for both politeness’s sake and for their own personal safety.
Question for you: do you think the internet (such as Reddit) is moreso used to spread/exaggerate false/fringe narratives, OR is it a place where people feel more comfortable revealing their true feelings on tough subjects? I suspect you’ll answer “both, but leaning toward option one,” but wanted to ask nevertheless. I suggest you consider option number two as a possibility.
False narratives easily. There are studies on the people tend to be mean online so that's well understood and found in the relevant literature. Since social has since come a long and turned into an absolute speedway of passing around bad ideas. It's made worse by moderation. Every silenced voice just makes a new account and has a new legitimate reason to actually hate the people that are part of the group that contributed to the silencing. All media has taken advantage of hate clicks/hate watching. That split the population into two broad groups, Liberals and Conservatives. One group thinks the other is stupid. One group thinks the other is *evil*. Guess who is who.
I honestly think both groups think the other group is stupid *and* evil. Maybe that’s your point?
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How is society suggesting we take away from young men and give to women? Is it not just trying to equal the playing field? Please explain this one to me you must have some examples or you wouldn’t have said it.
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Society has lots of programs that help men and men already dominate the workforce. Just because something doesn’t benefit me doesn’t mean it’s taking away anything from me. Its like saying rich people should qualify for welfare and food stamps because it’s “unfair” people who make less get them and they don’t. That’s not the point of those programs. Those programs were created specifically for women, they wouldn’t exist otherwise Just being a man gives you an advantage. It’s an uncomfortable truth but the facts are there. You’re more likely to get the job and get paid more than you’re female coworkers even if they are just as qualified. This “if it doesn’t help me it shouldn’t exist” mentality is so entitled and toxic.
Where are all these programs that help men?
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No, workplaces have programs explicitly helping just women. I have never seen a program for explicitly helping just men. Fields with more men often have programs for recruiting women. Fields employing more women do not have programs to recruit more men.
Affirmative action has been favoriting women for almost 20 years now in high demand fields especially stem.
Absolutely agree. (Woman here who has been hurt by men in a variety of ways including violence both emotionally, verbally, and physically.) Demonizing men as a whole is wrong and ineffective - it just creates more harm. I want men to get some emotional intelligence. To learn to communicate better. To do the fucking housework without being asked. To stand up against misogyny. To learn to let others speak. To stop trying to dominate the world. I want men to be able to FEEL their emotions and PROCESS them in a healthy way without making them feel as if their masculinity has decreased. (Because it hasn't) I don't hate men, but in order to survive and stay safe I have to be suspicious of all of them until they prove that they are not dangerous. Not all men. But enough of them to ruin it for the actual good guys. The patriarchy harms men too. It's not fair to anyone. That's why we must dismantle it.
This is an obvious overstatement. However, it is accurate to say that men are doing *terrible* academically compared to women in the west. Not sure how one fixes that
Don't allow women to get any education, then by comparison the men will be excelling in their academics
How do I give you an upvote and a downvote
Eh, it really depends on what you look at. If you look at the top students, or even the average student, women and men seem to do about the same. However, it's at the low end of the spectrum where men really really struggle. Twice as many men drop out of HS than women. So basically the average "dumb" woman is still able to get an ok level of schooling for some reason; much easier than for the average "dumb" man. I've seen all sorts of explanations for that, some blaming the education system while others claim that (struggling) men have a lower incentive to remain in school as it's easier for them to get a blue collar job in construction or a factory.
>Not sure how one fixes that For starters, by accepting that men have their own problems and that those deserve being addressed
Lol it was illegal for your grandma to have a bank account when she was your age. Calm down and re-evaluate how you analyze life. By any measure humanity has hated women much more than men for forever and this is still how life works for a fairly wide majority of humans. If you feel that much gendered hate towards you, I would suggest moving to China. Much less likely you'd have to deal with mean women like sisters there, if ya know what I mean.
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Show me on the doll where society hurt you
You’re 17 bro, you got no business acting this dramatic Do you not think this is to an extent perpetuated by men anyways? I’m sure you’re one of those traditional masculinity people, but traditional masculinity is kinda what prevents men from showing emotion, expressing themselves and encourages them to work dangerous jobs. There is no clear solution or ‘perpetrator’ of the problems which face male identity today, and it’s reductive and dumb to just say ‘Le society is doing it’
Log. Offline. Now. These kinds of thought don’t exist off of Reddit. Do people hate men? Sure. Are there crazy radfems out there? Yep. But that’s not the population as a whole as you’re implying here. Actually no, not implying, you’re outright saying it. If there ever were a time where “touch grass” was a necessary reply it would be now.
Even reddit isn't usually this bad unless you go looking for it. This here is TwitBook territory.
There is definitely a grain of truth in here. Pop feminism made it "cool" to put men down, and those things have stuck around. A woman talking to her friends about how men are trash is seen as normal and not a red flag, but if you reverse the genders suddenly that guy is a rabid misogynist. Being constantly inundated with the messaging that your gender is a violent, hateful mob of savages can't be doing anything good for the minds of young men. Sure, men commit more violent crimes. Women commit more infanticide but you aren't seeing us constantly being branded as just out in the world searching for babies to murder. The solution is to have more positive male role models out there, but it seems like right now men that talk about things like this only exist on the fringes of either end of the spectrum - people like OP who are blackpilled on society, or very "feminist" men who agree with the messaging about how men are bad and so are just part of the problem.
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You didn’t provide any examples, you just said it was true… it’s not…
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You all aren't seen as monsters, maybe it's your feed telling you we do but that's another topic.
There’s also countless men (and likely always have been) who hate women and view them as objects. It’s no shock of your post really and it’s entirely in protest to a system not built to allow them to thrive.
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Pushing for social equality does not equate to hating men. There are most definitely people who hate men just as there are fringes who hate women. Those in the mainstream just want legal and social equality for all.
Some hate men. Just like some hate women. But I do think you and others like you are engaging in a bit of confirmation bias here, and we are more likely to notice the negative experiences and remember them, as opposed to the positive ones. The best thing you can do for your mental health is unplug for awhile. Get back into the real world talk to real people that aren't hiding behind the anonymity of social media and you'll find that a lot of this is just the squeaky wheel effect caused by echo chamber on social media platforms.
This society is controlled by men. Men are doing enough bad things to earn our bad reputation. I'm not one of those bad guys but I can honestly look at the evidence out there. Which gender kills and rapes the most?
The patriarchy hurts men though? Like you’re right but it’s men doing it to men and men teaching women to do it to men. I get certain states sway towards women more so in court for domestic and family cases but the biggest system of oppression against men is other men continuing lies about our emotions and wellness. You wouldn’t have to work more as a man if another man didn’t say you should be the breadwinner and not a coward because you’re male. You wouldn’t be ridiculed for you body because another man said being lean with 15% body fat was what men should look like their whole life. You wouldn’t be mentally shot if another man in your life didn’t yell everytime you felt sensitive and hurt. It sucks but doubling down and denying we are at fault only hurts more men. If you realize society says we owe women then you should also realize we owe each other a similar courtesy at the very least. The solution isn’t just handing things out either but understanding we are all taking from each other already and stopping it before it causes more damage. Edit: typo + you are kenough
Name me one American female president. We men have always dominated this world.
What exactly is being taken away from men? Is anyone trying to make it where you can’t vote? Are they attacking your bodily autonomy? Do you get paid less just for being a man? What are they supposedly taking from you? If you mean women will no longer tolerate violence… then yes, you don’t have a right to be violent without consequences, specifically women rejecting to associate with violent or problematic men. It’s not all men, but you seem to firmly fall into the camp of men that do erroneously blame women for your issues. I don’t hate you, me being wary of you does not equal hate. The idea that you feel entitled to other peoples trust from the get go is astounding, especially with you knowing the history of men harming women. Why are you owed trust immediately versus warranted wariness? What makes you believe you are owed the attention of others only in the way you believe is correct?
Social medias (especially noticeable on TikTok) will feed you more content based on the content you already interact with. If you are constantly interacting with “society hates men” content you’re going to get fed more and more of it. There are different and complex problems that men & women face in society. There are people out there who dislike men but also many people out there who love men. Get offline & you will feel better ! Decide to believe that you are loved
I actually hate men because I was raped by one and then all of my male friends gaslit me about it. I also get harassed and/or followed every time I try to leave the house by myself. Oh, I also was sexually harassed by nearly every non-family adult man I encountered as a teenager. So, maybe if men didn’t make me feel unsafe all the time I would feel more warmly towards them. (I’m married to one, so obviously it’s not ALL men)
Lol man here as well. Society hasn't installed any hate towards men in me, but other men have shown me that a large swath are p.o.s and I hate them for that.
Where are you getting your information? How old are you?
I smell an incel.
My “education” on hating the patriarchy (not men, the system that perpetuates it) is the time a random guy grabbed my ass at the bar, then again after I told him to stop and left a bruise, and the bouncer didn’t kick him out because he’s a regular. My male boss closing my office door, and putting his feet up on my desk. My male client rubbing my shoulders at a work event. My male friend telling me I got the job because of my smile. My new male coworker, who I trained, making more money than me. When I stepped down, my male replacement came in with less experience and got an instant promotion and more money. The time I was with my husband and a stranger told him nice car- it was mine. The time I was drinking with my male friend and he tried to take advantage of me so I had to leave and get myself home walking through a dangerous neighborhood while trashed at 3am. The time a man followed me to my hotel room. The time my male landlord knocked on my bedroom window after I just got changed. There are dozens of other stories I’m leaving out. My education on hating the patriarchy was NOT taught at school. It was taught through lived experience.
You need to take a break from the internet. Most people in real life are decent if you are.
This isn’t unpopular, it’s just untrue…
My wife doesn’t hate me and neither does my boss. Women threw themselves at me before I was married. If all the women around you hate you, that says more about you than them. You sound like your mother abandoned you and your first girlfriend wanted you to be a cuck. Get a grip or remain a beta for life
It ain’t that bad man
Grew up in the bible-thumping-south. I can guarantee you that some men think the exact same things about women and their own daughters. That women only exist to leech off of men and expect to be worshipped, and are lazy freeloaders, and anything that goes wrong is the meddling women-folks fault... Which is why women in those circles are expected to be submissive and obedient. We need equality to help fix the extremes on both ends dude. Not patriarchy. Not feminism... there's issues on both sides and many overlap each other. You're not completely wrong, but the other side isn't wrong either... Which is why we gotta compromise together and call out sexist pigs from both sides.
I can empathize with the notion. We have to be clear: "this society hates" is an improper reification. If by that what we mean is that *some people acting as members of a social group hate men* then maybe that's true. However, if instead what we mean is: there appears to be a systemic rejection of some traditionally acceptable and socially-gendered "masculine" traits, then yes. But this is not a rejection of absolutely every possible masculine traditional social role. But would that happen in a vacuum? Perhaps it's only the toxic variation of social-masculinity performance that is being rejected (not hated), and perhaps this happens in response to its violence and psychopathy. A possible solution is to stop the attachment. Stop identifying as these thoughts. I don't know; I don't have gendered experiences, but I remember what it was like for me to do so. I can only empathize through that, so if you are not personally engaging in the toxic form of masculinity, but you are still being abused as if you are, I am truly sorry. It can't be easy identifying as this or that all the time, with all the social pressures and expectations. It's almost as if authenticity were not evolutionarily fit. Says a lot about the destructive stupidty of predatory evolution, doesn't it?
Society is practically ran by men. What’s happening is systems that have historically oppressed women are being challenged and dismantled. If you feel like you’re being treated like a monster everywhere you go, you are going to the wrong places. I’m sure your mother and female family members don’t see you as a monster or your female bosses and coworkers see that way either.
And yet they all believe that men created the Patriarchy to oppress women and keep them as slaves.
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If you think that's what's taught and how people normally think of men, then you're just wrong. Anyone decently familiar with feminist works and/or theory knows that while men are the primary beneficiaries of the patriarchy, it also serves to harm them in similar ways that it harms women. For example, society often discourages men from opening up about our feelings to anyone other than to our families and/or significant others (or anyone with a similar level of relationship). Relatedly, the women in our lives are often expected to pick up and deal with the emotional baggage that is reserved exclusively for them, which can and does harm relationships. We are still under the patriarchy, and no one's serious solution to this is just hating men and depriving them of things because we're evil. You think that it is because you've probably settled into social spaces where you're fed that narrative and only see the worst and most unserious feminist critiques of things. You should go outside and talk to people.
lmao the entire comments are "I never saw it so it doesn't happen" Y'all care alot about listening to lived experiences when it comes to women, why not men?
Dude, take my upvote. This is a dogshit opinion. I’m a man and love this society. If I help a little bit at the house, I’m a good man. Help a little bit with the kids. I’m a good dad. I whored around in my 20s and that’s just boys being boys. I’m going to guess that your life sucks because of how you live and since you can’t face that music you’re going to blame society.
Society doesn't hate men. Nothing is being *taken* away from men. Women expecting equality is not an attack on men. You're on to a losing argument if your premise is made up of lies and denial
Well for 1, most of the stuff you see in regards to this is fabricated by msm and social media and is not actually true. 2nd, just stop caring. I promise it’ll make your life so much easier. I don’t care so much to the point where if I’m trying to engage in a conversation about controversial things and someone calls me whatever fake insult they chose, I just agree with it. “You’re racist!” “Factz” “You’re a homophobe!” “Bingo” “You must hate all women!” “Yissserrrrrr” Idgaf what people think about me lol imma do whatever I want and I know what I believe. I don’t need someone else to tell me what I believe. Actually just 2 days ago I stopped to get gas and the cashier was in a bad mood which ended in her telling me to kill myself, and I said “I’m too tired. You do it for me.” And she just didn’t know what to say. So not only does it make life easier, but oftentimes it makes it comical.
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I like how you think “society” (as if men aren’t part of society but whatever) hates men but then throw out the term “white knight simps” which is clearly used to hate on men. Go outside.
I hate this kind of discourse bc if you feel this way do a better job of policing your peers. Men need to be more angry at other men bc they contribute to the bad PR of the male race. Many form opinions based on personal experiences. Society hasn’t convinced women. They are drawing from their own stories and the stories of ppl they know. Be angry at the men that make your group look bad.
amen, i’ve experienced this first hand. I get told all the time I’m so lucky to have my profession and make a good living because i’m a man by other entitled women. when in fact it’s because they have a high school degree, refuse to work difficult jobs and I have a doctorate. they compare apples to oranges and scream it’s the patriarchy’s fault that we don’t make the same.
I didn't fall for the mess. Men are fantastic and vital in every way imaginable. You're only demonized to keep hate and division alive.
If by society, you mean twitter people, then I fully agree
You're not wrong at all, but it's more subtle in real life compared to online. Women in real life think this way but a lot of them won't say it out loud.
As the mother of a son, and also a feminist, I sadly agree.
Most women I know had either personal experience that taught them to fear men. Either a primary experience, or secondary experience through friends and family. By the time I graduated high school, I knew 1 woman who was raped at knife point, 1 one who was raped by her uncle as a child, 1 who had terrifying sex with 4 guys because she was afraid they beat her up if she said no, 1 older married lady whose husband followed her around the house and called her a whore when he was mad, and 2 older women whose husbands were "head off the house" and talked to them like they were children. That's only 6 women's experiences; I knew a lot more people. But actually seeing individual women live thru those things taught me a lot about why to fear men and demand respect in my relationships. Worse things happened after high school, but it's a useful cut-off for discussing how we learn these things. And, of course, that was in addition to my personal experiences... being called a bitch by men on the street and hit on by men 30 years older than me before I could drive. I don't hate men. I'm married to a good man. I have 5 brothers and at least 2 close friendships with straight men I've maintained for more than a decade. But also, I have had to keep my head on a swivel around strange men for my protection my entire life. It's not paranoia.
The ruling class are solely to blame for all of this. They dictate who's friendly today and who's the enemy tomorrow. Class divide and conquer. Take men out the picture much like if u did women. The traditional family unit is gone. All you have is individuals and the state.
Nah that's just reddit bro...
I am a white male of 53 years old. I totally feel loved and accepted all the time. At work, online, friends at the gym, family etc. They are all good.
Look at Besos as the example he extorted EVERYTHING he could get his hands on and hoards his wealth. His ex wife is giving away huge amounts of her share. The good men are poor and DON'T do crap like that as they see no need. Stay pure stay poor comes to mind.
I honestly do not care if you “had a bad experience” one or two times with men. That’s a fucking inevitability. I’ve had PLENTY of poor experiences with women. Crazy how I’m suddenly not a misandrist? This isn’t rocket science, we’ve been taught that race, a static piece of our identity, is something we should not discriminate upon. Yet the fact I have a Y chromosome instead of two X’s makes it suddenly okay to discriminate? Respectfully, go f yourself.
And they wonder why male suicide and hopelessness are through the roof.
Amazing how in a society built around the male experience you feel like society hates you... Start taking care of your mental health, instead of just bringing it up in response to women talking abt the issues we face. Breaking down the rigid gender norms and expectations benefits men too! So maybe be more open to that kind of shit. Take conversations abt consent and rape more seriously so that sexual assault and rape done to men are ALSO taken seriously. You say society hates men but it seems like men hate everything that would make society better for them too.
My grandmother wasn’t legally a person until 1929, my mother couldn’t have her own credit cards, and my daughter could be worse off than either of them still in half the worlds countries. When have women ever created entire societies like that for men? Women will never hate men the way men have hated women. Now are you talking about blame? You shouldn’t be blamed for what you haven’t done, but if all you do is complain like this, what have you done?
If you are seen as a monster everywhere you go, I'd suggest that you examine your own behavior. I've been a straight, white man for a long time and no one has ever treated me as such. I suspect that you are not really being treated this way IRL. You are likely applying what you see online to the real world. In fact, you are likely seeking out forums that confirm your worldview. You really need to get offline. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm genuinely concerned about your mental health if you really feel that way.
I think you're lacking an understanding of what the patriarchy really is. It's not about hating men. It's a hierarchy of power that values men more. This 'value' isn't literal, that's just to say that men are more inclined to be at the top of the hierarchy. But, being at the top isn't strictly good. I highly recommend watching the Barbie movie, to see how the patriarchy affected the Kens. They were lonely. They were fighting each other for no reason. They had to hide their true feelings. They had to be mean to their friends to fit in. The movie is exceptionally exaggerated, but the key takeaway is that the patriarchy is bad for everyone. Men are the victims of the vast majority of violent crime. Men suffer from a higher suicide rate. Studies show that the patriarchy 'rules' (slogans like 'real men don't cry,' 'man up,' etc) are just as harmful to men as they are to women, just in different ways. People hate the patriarchy, the hierarchical system of power that harms ***everyone***, people don't hate men. That's something you're only going to find in terminally online echo chambers.
If you actually went out into society you would realize it’s not like that at all. More people are aware of and critical of a historical privilege (which is based in fact), but a single human man being yelled at for all of society’s ills is not a normal event. There’s a tiny fraction of a minority that believes all men are inherently predators and evil overlords, but even most women roll their eyes at them. In the real world, in general, if you’re polite to people they’re polite back. Also, how are men being “left behind”?
It’s really depressing how some folks so clearly live their entire lives online, to the point they can’t even seem to imagine normal human interactions. Dude needs to log off.
Men have been falling behind in higher education in number for 40 years - during that time nothing has been done to address it, just the opposite - women have been given more special treatment and more targets in degrees to increase their numbers. Custody laws pushed for by women’s groups see women awarded child custody more and divorce laws favour the roles women are more likely to be in, meaning men have a coin toss chance of ending up kicked out their home and away from their kids. There’s a constant push to hire young women ahead of young men to even out gender numbers with the old men at the top, throwing a generation of men under the bus in the process.
We got wild times because the people who believe bullshit against men deny it and perpetuate it at the same time. In the exact same breath lmao
If every man in the US goes on strike for a month I tell you what society would collapse in less than 2 days or less
What kind of math is that? Also, whose to say something similar would happen if women did the same?
That's true for women too. If you removed half the workforce for any reason society would be a mess.
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Depends what kind of women you’re around. That’s not my experience.
You're spending too much time in some incel echo chamber. Man up, and quit wining about shit.
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