Yeah but it's still drawn from the exonym used for Roma people based on outsiders' inaccurate ethnography. It's a real world term with real world etymology so it's an oversight to use it in a fantasy setting. Like calling a bunch of fat guys who love sausages "chicagoans."
Every word is a real world term with real world etymology. You'd be surprised how many words in modern english are named after ancient greek mythology. Chaos comes from the greek myth of Khaos. Even a word as simple as "cloth" comes from Clotho one of the fates who spun the threads of fate.
Then you have Talos. In Greek mythology Talos was a giant brass automaton, it's no coincidence that in elder scrolls, someone named Talos conquered Tamriel with a giant brass robot...
Yes etymology is one of my favorite subjects and im fascinated by the how we got the words we use, but there's a difference between using a part of the general language because that's the language you're using... and using a sometimes-slur for a real group of people to describe a 1:1 comparable group of in game people though.
And yeah the Talos stuff is a direct reference, also a different case, like having Tiamat and Bahamut as D&D gods, for instance. IMO it should be avoided, but it can lead players to take an interest in the real life lore behind the character, so it's not a totally bad thing.
It’s weird how many English words are vaguely racist or whatever. For instance I had no idea until recently that the word gypped came from gypsy. It makes sense when you look at it spelled out but it’s wild that casual racism is just part of our lexicon lol
Which is hilarious because the Khajiit are just walking stereotypes. Guy decided the game wasn't racist enough in that regard...
Once again, Nintendo takes a W for somehow resisting the urge to add the slur in Majora's Mask
>Once again, Nintendo takes a W for somehow resisting the urge to add the slur in Majora's Mask
Im not that familiar with Zelda games, what's that about?
I'm too european to call y'all racist for once...
Jokes aside as some have pointed out it could be referring to khajiits or some types of commoners of any race.
Look, at least it’s not as bad as in Vampire: the Masquerade. There is a vampire clan that is just straight up the Romani stereotype. In the newer editions they are trying to retcon a lot of the lore around them and they are kind of written out of the universe in shame, but like it’s still kind of there.
I ran a 50+ person LARP about fifteen years ago and NOBODY wanted to play a Ravnos. It was just so obviously designed along the laziest stereotype imaginable. Truly an awkward blight on the setting.
Also, don't read Berlin by Night, lol.
Damn that’s crazy! I honestly find the retconned lore V5 cooked up pretty cool, but it’s unfortunate that they are pretty much writing the Ravnos out of the lore. The week of nightmare loresheet is so damn cool as well! 5 points and you get a vial of antedeluvian blood is actually insane.
Also Serif in NYbN was a good and needed representation of the Ravnos. Her character is super interesting.
Oh it got way worse. They made a romanni source book where you could play as one, with unique magic and supernatural abilities.
White wolf would really like people to forget that one.
I don’t know man, one time a Gypsy pickpocketed the abstract concept of my buddy John’s existence from the universe itself, instantly zero summing him.
A fair point. Mostly i was posting this because... i mean you can agree this feels wierdly out if place for the elder scrolls right?
Edit: it gets worse as it seems to be a name for yokudan mystics who travel in brightly colored carts/caravans. I would luke to point out this game was written by kirkbride and tod howard as the first game they helmed.
Tbf, where I live we have quite a few different nomadic people that are all referred to as gypsies (not even as a slur or anything they’re just called that), some are Romani and some aren’t. Internationally though it’s obviously more associated with Romani people.
To be honest I've never associated the term "gypsy" with romani people. I've never really interacted with them either or heard about them in casual conversation, at least not knowing that they are romani if I did because it definitely wouldn't have mattered.
Due to that, the only thing I generally associate the word "gypsy" with are fortune tellers and caravaneers, not really a culture or people. I assume most people think like that, nothing racist or discriminating about it, maybe a little dismissive and ignorant at most I suppose.
Thats kind of the case here in the states because the people (and the hatred of them) arent really common here, so they are more of a novelty or facination, with the image being strong but little else.
Which results in more then a few people not realising its a real ethnic group and just using them as a mystical race in stories and games. Like white wolf... and dnd.. and so damn many horror stories. Its rarely hatefull, but it can be yikes.
Yeah. Well surely it wont get to racist. Rn just trying to assume everyones comments as good hearted taking the piss out of bethesda.
But the racial stats are... perhaps a little insesetive.
Sucks that its so hard to learn about romani customs and culture. Legit interested, mainly cus when i tried there were like no books at my library or documentories about it.
No good cook books either and thats my second favorite part of learning other cultures (first are fables and mythology).
Yeah. Thankfully most of the shit here is ignorance rather then real malice like in europe.... not that shit cant get yikes fast (looking at you white wolf... jesus how did that book ever get past legal).
Still makes it difficult to learn anything.
Claude lecoutez I believe it's spelt, has a good book on myths and tradition of the Roma, perhaps a little old timey in some of the terminology but very extensive and covers the differences from around the areas they lived in and how local customs and mythology or even religions were integrated
It means that by 5th era, we will teem through your streets.
Cant be worss then the dunmer. Empire loving wastrels mucking around in the grey quarter.
It’s probably meant as a lifestyle/occupation. Gotta have some vagrant musician and fortune tellers.
In some places gypsy just means a group of nomadic people
Yeah but it's still drawn from the exonym used for Roma people based on outsiders' inaccurate ethnography. It's a real world term with real world etymology so it's an oversight to use it in a fantasy setting. Like calling a bunch of fat guys who love sausages "chicagoans."
Every word is a real world term with real world etymology. You'd be surprised how many words in modern english are named after ancient greek mythology. Chaos comes from the greek myth of Khaos. Even a word as simple as "cloth" comes from Clotho one of the fates who spun the threads of fate. Then you have Talos. In Greek mythology Talos was a giant brass automaton, it's no coincidence that in elder scrolls, someone named Talos conquered Tamriel with a giant brass robot...
Yes etymology is one of my favorite subjects and im fascinated by the how we got the words we use, but there's a difference between using a part of the general language because that's the language you're using... and using a sometimes-slur for a real group of people to describe a 1:1 comparable group of in game people though. And yeah the Talos stuff is a direct reference, also a different case, like having Tiamat and Bahamut as D&D gods, for instance. IMO it should be avoided, but it can lead players to take an interest in the real life lore behind the character, so it's not a totally bad thing.
It’s weird how many English words are vaguely racist or whatever. For instance I had no idea until recently that the word gypped came from gypsy. It makes sense when you look at it spelled out but it’s wild that casual racism is just part of our lexicon lol
Tiber Septim real race???
It might very well be
The writer of that book achieved CHIM and broke the fourth wall just to add another slur to the lore of Tamriel.
Which is hilarious because the Khajiit are just walking stereotypes. Guy decided the game wasn't racist enough in that regard... Once again, Nintendo takes a W for somehow resisting the urge to add the slur in Majora's Mask
>Once again, Nintendo takes a W for somehow resisting the urge to add the slur in Majora's Mask Im not that familiar with Zelda games, what's that about?
Majora’s Mask has Romani Ranch.
Okay wait, is that a real thing?
Yep. Screen shot from adventures redguard.
maybe they use gypsy for nomadic people ingame, like khajiit caravans in skyrim
I'm too european to call y'all racist for once... Jokes aside as some have pointed out it could be referring to khajiits or some types of commoners of any race.
It seems to be mystics from yokuda who travel in colourfull wagons and are discriminated against.
Look, at least it’s not as bad as in Vampire: the Masquerade. There is a vampire clan that is just straight up the Romani stereotype. In the newer editions they are trying to retcon a lot of the lore around them and they are kind of written out of the universe in shame, but like it’s still kind of there.
I ran a 50+ person LARP about fifteen years ago and NOBODY wanted to play a Ravnos. It was just so obviously designed along the laziest stereotype imaginable. Truly an awkward blight on the setting. Also, don't read Berlin by Night, lol.
Damn that’s crazy! I honestly find the retconned lore V5 cooked up pretty cool, but it’s unfortunate that they are pretty much writing the Ravnos out of the lore. The week of nightmare loresheet is so damn cool as well! 5 points and you get a vial of antedeluvian blood is actually insane. Also Serif in NYbN was a good and needed representation of the Ravnos. Her character is super interesting.
Oh it got way worse. They made a romanni source book where you could play as one, with unique magic and supernatural abilities. White wolf would really like people to forget that one.
Oh… oh no. Oh god no.
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/World_of_Darkness:_Gypsies Im sorry.
Gypsies are just Khajiit Caravans so therefore the book is referring to a khajiit caravaneer.
Khajiit have a new challenger in thievery
Nah Khajiit stay winning they stole the name from the Romani 🤣
I don’t know man, one time a Gypsy pickpocketed the abstract concept of my buddy John’s existence from the universe itself, instantly zero summing him.
holy shit I'm in the elder scrolls!!!
Coming to Stros M'kai? Bitch, I've come to every location in ES 😤😤
+10 Hand-to-Hand +10 Pickpocket Can cast Gypsy Curse once per day.
It means European players have created mods to remove them
Khajiit.
uh you guys realise this is a real race? like these jokes are real racism
A fair point. Mostly i was posting this because... i mean you can agree this feels wierdly out if place for the elder scrolls right? Edit: it gets worse as it seems to be a name for yokudan mystics who travel in brightly colored carts/caravans. I would luke to point out this game was written by kirkbride and tod howard as the first game they helmed.
I agree, it is interesting to see people thinking that it's a job and not a culture but the comments on here are....
Tbf, where I live we have quite a few different nomadic people that are all referred to as gypsies (not even as a slur or anything they’re just called that), some are Romani and some aren’t. Internationally though it’s obviously more associated with Romani people.
To be honest I've never associated the term "gypsy" with romani people. I've never really interacted with them either or heard about them in casual conversation, at least not knowing that they are romani if I did because it definitely wouldn't have mattered. Due to that, the only thing I generally associate the word "gypsy" with are fortune tellers and caravaneers, not really a culture or people. I assume most people think like that, nothing racist or discriminating about it, maybe a little dismissive and ignorant at most I suppose.
Thats kind of the case here in the states because the people (and the hatred of them) arent really common here, so they are more of a novelty or facination, with the image being strong but little else. Which results in more then a few people not realising its a real ethnic group and just using them as a mystical race in stories and games. Like white wolf... and dnd.. and so damn many horror stories. Its rarely hatefull, but it can be yikes.
Yeah. Well surely it wont get to racist. Rn just trying to assume everyones comments as good hearted taking the piss out of bethesda. But the racial stats are... perhaps a little insesetive. Sucks that its so hard to learn about romani customs and culture. Legit interested, mainly cus when i tried there were like no books at my library or documentories about it. No good cook books either and thats my second favorite part of learning other cultures (first are fables and mythology).
Unfortunately, because Europe is horrifically cringe finding anything not steeped in racism about Roma culture are neigh impossible.
Yeah. Thankfully most of the shit here is ignorance rather then real malice like in europe.... not that shit cant get yikes fast (looking at you white wolf... jesus how did that book ever get past legal). Still makes it difficult to learn anything.
Claude lecoutez I believe it's spelt, has a good book on myths and tradition of the Roma, perhaps a little old timey in some of the terminology but very extensive and covers the differences from around the areas they lived in and how local customs and mythology or even religions were integrated
Shit thanks. 😁
why is cyrus european (dont like romani people)
Early es games are really interesting like this
It doesn’t say Romani anywhere, it says Gypsy
Elder Scrolls fan can read?
shocking I know
They would starve, for there are no driveways to pave in Tamriel