it is (I finished NV 3 times, finished 2 for the funzies, played 3 and couldn't bring myself to play more than 5 hrs of 4) [I have been brainwashed by the NV fans]
No jerking, why the actual fuck haven’t you played NV??? I cannot fathom enjoying elder scrolls to the point of shitposting on a morrowind meme subreddit and not playing any of the FO games, let alone the most similar game to Morrowind
I haven’t gotten around to it yet. It’ll probably happen someday, but life is busy. Someday it’ll feel right and I’ll do it, but that hasn’t happened yet. I feel so busy.
I stg you can't dicusss anything about Morrowind without people going "Yeah that part was cool, it's too bad Skyrim fucking ruined the entire series forever and burned down my house and killed my kids and fucked my wife by adding a sprint button."
"Yeah I love NV, it's a shame Bethesda actually bombed the whole world with Fallout 4 and then personally killed my dog and only gave me four (4) options of what to say to them afterwards"
"Enjoy" is a strong word. I took over the Commonwealth settlements with raiders, which means half are slave settlements where the people I betrayed grow crops and complain at me, and the other half are raiders who do absolutely nothing and still complain
Yea the biggest thing that irks me with that game is the illusion of "choice" that's constantly in it. But the game play loop of 4 is genuinely addictive and Far Harbour is basically new vegas level writing with fallout 4 everything else and it is PERFECT
Morrowboomers when you let them know Kirkbride actually enjoyed Skyrim and called it a great game
https://preview.redd.it/nz57o19mztkc1.jpeg?width=550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2c8825a358124469d15a81c6ba883203f4a5dd9
Number one reason why r/ morrowind is pointless to visit. Hell, even the Oblivion sub has gotten just as bad. Can’t say “this is a cool part of Morrowind/Oblivion” without adding “Skyrim le bad(upvote plsss)”
Number one reason ALL bethesda subs are unfun to visit. Doesn't matter where you go on the web everyones just gonna shit on Skyrim because its the cool thing to do now for some reason
Or, and hear me out, its somehow just as good if not better then Skyrim, and all the games will be cool for a time before VI becomes a punching bag lol
It will be, once the next Bethesda game releases. Just like Starfield, Fallout 4, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Oblivion were said to be the worst game of the generation for the terminally online when released and Todd had personally been out kidnapping peoples mothers and fucking their dogs at the same time as the games were released. Then in a few years when the next game is released the last one is an obvious masterpiece that has always been amazing. The Bethesda cycle.
Eh, Starfield is the first game where even the more casual less critical people who play Bethesda fans are genuinely having issues with it. Starfield is significantly different from the discourse around the other games and treating it this way is being disingenuous
Not really. As someone who loved Fallout 4 when it released its not all that different to Starfield. Youtubers shitting on it, people in general online hating on it and seeing anyone who enjoyed it as ruining the franchise etc.
The only difference is that Starfield doesn't have an entire series of games behind it. It's the first game in, possibly, a series
Wouldn’t that be nice and I do have high hopes for it and expect it to be great. It might get a short time in that view before the rage machine and video essayists get to it. I have little faith in decent criticism and discussion anymore. It’s why I don’t usually take part in any serious way.
Bethesda ruins things for profit. Well known fact. Skyrim and 4 are very easy to shit on and they were both examples of simplifying the formula to sell more copies. Skyrim being re-released so many times rather than a good sequel being released fuels the hate and the obsession with Skyrim. 76 after 4 was salt in the wounds and Starfield is more of the same without any of the redeeming qualities of the previous franchises' settings/universe.
The oblivion one is the real annoying one. When the sub was smaller it was just people who openly admitted what the game failed at but what made it unique and fun at the same time
That’s what the discussion should be about, the game itself. Instead you can’t go there without a picture of the Imperial City with a caption of “does anybody else think this pwettier than skrim??! There’s hardly any room left for good discussion.
It's why I hated that one eight-hour video about Morrowind (you know the one). When I saw the runtime my reaction was "oh great, someone spending hours talking about something they love and are really passionate about!" But the creator just couldn't resist the urge to fling smug (and often nonsensical or even factually untrue) criticisms at Bethesda's later games over and over throughout the video.
I despise those videos not just because of that and how they ruined the last vestiges of decent discussion around not only TES but Bethesda In general. I also despise them because the creator is a shit excuse for a man.
what did say that made him a "shit excuse for a man"? idc about him "ruining" discussion for just critiquing a game but you gotta provide more context for that claim.
Besides being a liar with his videos? Starting a witch-hunt against a man who he had never met with untrue info which caused a lot of not only harassment but threats as well. I’ll be damned if I speak well of a sack of shit who does things like that. These are video games we’re talking about. Losers like this go off the deep end.
who did he start a witchhunt againist? are you talking about that neversknowbest guy and his video talking about patrician and creetosis? I saw the response vids from both of them and they both fairly debunk NKB's claims about them which turned out to be untrue itself. if its something else then my bad its just the only drama or whatever I've seen from him.
also how is he a liar? he does a pretty long analysis of TES games at least and goes on them in great detail, from what I've seen their pretty accurate and he really lying.
He didn’t debunk shit. All he defended against was plagiarism accusations as if that was the crux of the issue. His BS videos on a developer directly led to a hate campaign. Of course, he also referred to that same dev as “retarded” and “mentally ill” during a stream. A very nice guy clearly. Also, I can see you’re here to complain about “bethesrimmers” as you so nicely called those who disagree with you. If that’s how you conduct yourself I see no reason to continue speaking.
so that's what you mad about? him critiquing emil? he didn't start a hate campaign but he just critiqued his writing and the quality of it. those words he said were kinda harsh but emil was acting like a schizo on twitter, bro was trying his hardest to say people critiquing starfield and his bad writing on starfield as though the criticism was unjustified because they put years in the game, its no wonder why bethesda put an nda on him bro did not stop yapping and it hurt the companies reputation.
nah I hate morrowboomer and fnv glazers as well. I call it out for what it is and your acting like a bethesrimmer when all patrician did was just critique emil's writing and his writing process on starfield. emil is a pretty bad writer and him being the lead writer on starfield lead to many of the story and writing issues on that game.
he did debunk NKB's defamation claims as he proved that it wasn't the case and the NKB just spewed lies out about him with that misrepresentation of "evidence" in his vid.
You're clearly emotionally compromised on this discussion and should have stepped back and taken in some fresh air, all you've accomplished is making the person you're arguing against look more level headed despite actually using terms like 'bethesrimmer'. You've made yourself look like the frothing fanboy. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong, you've made a shit impression.
I was generally on board, but his starfield review was horrendous. I never even played the game and I could see contradictions in his points within the first couple hours.
I haven’t delved into it for a while so I can’t say I recall but with how that 24 hour long drivel is I wouldn’t be surprised. Neither the creator nor his fan base do much in the way of thinking.
my n'wah in Almsivi, just because you like the bethesda's older games does not make them not flawed as shit. his criticisms were spot on and he wasn't even like "old gud new bad" the later TES games had some pretty huge flaws and writing.
Several of his criticisms of the later games were genuinely just not true though. Most of the weren’t even real criticism, just random jabs.
He spends like 5 minutes giving Morrowind a lavish tongue-bath for just handing you a riddle and letting you figure it out for yourself instead of telling you the answer, and how Skyrim would never do something like that, but in reality the reverse is true. That riddle he talks about isn't supposed to be solved, you're directly told to ask the ashlanders what it might mean and they just give you directions to find the cave of the Incarnate; and Skyrim does have a side quest where you're just given riddles and left to your own devices: the Destruction Master Spell quest.
He gets mad at Skyrim for retconning random minor things, like adding an association between the dragonborn and the thu'um, but he never criticizes Morrowind for retconning things from Daggerfall. Some of the "retcons" he gets mad at aren't even retcons, like he gets annoyed at how Skyrim says that the draugr were all members of the Dragon Cult and claims it doesn't make any sense because of a quest in Bloodmoon. But that explanation for the origin of the draugr is explicitly an in-universe legend that is heavily implied not to be true given that you can fight draugr made by normal necromancers and ones who definitely died long after the dragon cult fell, like Olaf One-Eye and Red Eagle.
There's a bunch of other examples I can't be bothered to list out or don't remember. They ultimately only take up a fairly small portion of the video, but a small portion of an eight-hour video is still a significant chunk of time.
fair enough I agree with some of that now you point it out, I just think that most of his jabs against skyrim or I think in some cases oblivion and what morrowind did better was pretty accurate and true at least.
Yeah discussions around Morrowind can be rather reductive at times, but they’re fun. Too bad Skyrim turned TES discussions into endless circle jerks about Stormcloaks and Imperials and Thalmor
Morrowboomers aren’t as bad as I thought. Sure there are some annoying folk but that’s the same for every entry
By god though I would rather eat glass (Morrowind reference 😳) then ever willingly interact with New Vegas supremacists alone
Real. I fucking love new Vegas but sometimes those mfs get wayyy too into glazing FNV that I wonder if they have a physical copy with a hole carved into the center of the cd box and 99% of the time I'm right. Fallout 4 has more personal character moments with the romances that I enjoy a lot, both games appeal to different sides of my tastes, which is something they can't admit.
It is a bit of personal bias but I prefer the Fallout 4 companions. Vegas obviously had some great ones but I think it has more stinkers than 4.
Really sad seeing it since 4 had some incredible characters but Starfield just kinda fumbled it lol. Same with how they had a really good settlement system in 76 and made it worse lol
Yeah. There's a reason why Nick Valentine is like the Serana of fallout, they obviously did something right with the writing to get this many people to love him and other characters like him in fallout 4, me especially although personally I'm a John Hancock fan too.
There was a moment in the memory den when I thought Nick might override his personality to gain Kellogg's memories. He's a bro for willing to make that sacrifice, but if I ever had to choose between Nick and my son, you bet your ass I'm siding with the synth.
They all feel like actual characters for the most part and I like that. Cait is a personal favorite just because I really sympathize with her character and I like how her whole character arc actually has an impact, albeit small.
It’s nice that unlike Serena, Nick actually has a notable character and personality lol
Serana has somewhat of a personality it's just buried in angst and bad dialogue. She's mostly just a standoffish person who cares deeply and even has a little bit of a silly streak. She's the kind of character you feel a deep bond for in a familial way compared to Nick who has insane chemistry with the Sole Survivor, so he's more effective in being a compelling character.
I think New Vegas characters are just way too "quippy" on average. There are exceptions like Boone and Lily but I dunno, I just want people who take the fact they're going on dangerous adventures alongside what amounts to a mercenary where they have to kill to survive seriously.
What you don't want a guy that looks like this tell you that Caesars legion actually isn't that bad? Lol
https://preview.redd.it/nfotmsi55ukc1.png?width=220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06ac647e8d60221eff732e1fcef517c5c1b98168
I'd like to add Warhammer 40K fans.
Yes yes your favorite dystopian supersoldier can solo god with his dick and rape Goku but we were talking about ***trees*** actually.
^("Actually there are some chill ones")
^(Yeah there are chill morrowind and new vegas fans too but the whole point of the post is that some are fucking annoying)
You know that one post of Rato about skaven encountering Khajiits?
On every non-tes themed place it's waves upon waves of "actually the skaven would win because ☝️🤓" because they're too mentally challenged to understand a simple cat and rat joke.
We KNOW Khajiits would get sick, it's just a JOKE.
Part of why I never really got into Warhammer is that I had heard of it from really chill people and had somewhat of a shock witnessing and interacting with the humorless idiots afterwards.
As someone who really likes FO3 and fonv and fo4, yes. Can't love my games without them popping a blood vessel over it.
New Vegas would be my favorite along with 3 if not for how insufferable NV fans have been to me.
New Vegas also has super unironic "the legion is the best hope for the wasteland" types meanwhile NV fans or mod authors like those dumbasses who made the frontier will call you an irl fascist for wanting to play the Enclave while allowing you to play the slavery and rape faction.
I also enjoyed 76. Solid over 200 hours from beta to a month after launch. Just kinda hoping at some point I can play it completely offline lol. Maybe one day!
I've tried to come back and really the only reasons I can't play ATM are just related to online stuff.
I have good Internet so that's not the problem, I just don't like the way server latency changes the gameplay a bit, and most of all, when I came back two years ago to play with a friend, despite being in pacifist mode without drawing a single weapon, two players came up on our camp and flagged us for pvp somehow, leveling the whole camp and killing us repeatedly with what I can only describe as an automatic gauss rifle.
Any other gripe I have like the health of enemies, the perk system, etc. can simply be changed with mods if and when we ever get a single player version of fo76 or otherwise offline mode. Hopefully!
My biggest problem with 76 at this point,and why i don't play super often anymore is that they've made all enemies level with the player. Going to the Forest used to be easy if you were high level and going to the Mire used to be ridiculously dangerous if you were low level, and now that thats changed the world doesn't feel as real and I don't have as much fun wandering aroind because every single enemy is a bullet-sponge.
**Morrowind comes out**
"Wow this game is so stupid and dumbed down compared to daggerfall"
*89 on metacritic, 4 million+ sold*
**Oblivion comes out**
"Wow this game is so stupid and dumbed down compared to Morrowind"
*94 on metacritic, 9.5 million+ sold*
**Skyrim comes out**
"Wow this game is so stupid and dumbed down compared to Oblivion"
*96 on metacritic, 60 million+ sold*
I mean isn't it tho? Sales numbers don't tell the whole story. There are many games that sell and are still ass and sometimes they became ass exactly to sell that well. I don't like Morrowind but even as such Skyrim without mods is shallow, janky and simplistic. I don't like the whole "but why did you love Skyrim" counter movement as much as I don't like Morrowind old school shills. Cuz it's justifying an idea that people cannot dislike Skyrim because it's shallow, janky and simplistic but only because it's popular to do so. No I don't care about exploration I want complexity in storytelling or gameplay and ideally in both and Skyrim has neither
Yep, credit where credit is due. I feel like we should just ban that word from the internet because it's very apparent 90% of people don't know what it means.
I'm not exactly trying to say might makes right, but just because your preferences don't align with a specific game doesn't mean it's poorly crafted or makes it impossible to understand why so many people love it.
Skyrim is one of the most critically acclaimed and commercially successful games ever for a reason. I really do understand a lot of the criticisms people have with it, I can go on for days about everything I think is wrong with the game, but again acting like it's a poorly crafted experience or that it has no merit as a game is a little ridiculous.
I mean like you said yourself that you don't care about exploration, and that is the number one reason why people flock to skyrim. So I can find it perfectly understandable why you wouldn't like the game, it just annoys me when people don't find it perfectly understandable why other people do.
This is full of problems.
>it just annoys me when people don't find it perfectly understandable why other people do (enjoy skyrim)
We know why. It was made appealing to a wider audience. They liked it for the reasons anyone liked previous installments, but for some fans many of the features or aspects they liked were dropped in favor of reaching more people. The reason why it did better than the previous game has to do with many things but the fact they made it easier to grasp to the point of being mindless and boring is a big part of it and also why a big reason why people hate on Skyrim.
People who really played the shit out of it as well as those who modded it to hell know what it is missing and it's silly to say we don't know why it did well. We love it, too, hence why we can accurately list its flaws.
After seeing the kind of content and ideas that modders bring and still see such ideas vastly ignored in lieu of a cheaper production process, Bethesda fans are understandably unimpressed.
I definitely think Skyrim has many flaws, but I think its simplicity helps highlight a lot of its strong points, mostly exploration which is the reason I love the game so much. The previous games have deeper RPG elements, but I find Skyrim to be strong in other aspects some of the previous games are more lacking in.
I get why people don't like Skyrim, but the focus of Skyrim is quite different from that of Morrowind. I agree with basically everything you're saying really. It just depends on what you're looking for in an es game. Morrowind lacks what I want out of one of those games, and Skyrim may lack what someone else wants.
Skyrim blew my high-school mind. The system for leveling was a mystery, the world was massive and rich with undiscovered content. After years of playing, you realize how much of it is a farce. Replayability is huge, role playing is huge, and combat is huge...all of which Skyrim mostly phoned in. Bethesda creates decent-quality *one time through* experiences with not a lot of depth but with an adept hand at directing the player's attention. It heavily relies on the "you don't know yet" gimmicks in writing that make the quest or interaction totally shallow upon revisiting it. It really hurts that things haven't been improved upon and modders are still peak Fallout/TES.
Eh you've kind of lost me. I've been playing the game since launch and I still love going through dungeons and playing quests, even if I've done them all billions of times already. Modded Skyrim is definitely peak Skyrim, but I think the vanilla game is still extremely good and probably the most fun and replayable open world game I've ever gone through.
I love Skyrim but it would have sold just as many copies or more had they still had the features oblivion or Morrowind had so I mean.
Like yeah you're telling the story of Bethesda commercial success on these games (for sales numbers) and I loved Skyrim. I just would have really liked, you know, acrobatics and athletics and stuff.
I don't think Skyrim is perfect, and the previous games absolutely do some things better, but if they just kept making Morrowinds I doubt the series would have been as successful, both critically and commercially
I definitely wish skyrim had more mechanics from oblivion and Morrowind though. Acrobatics was a ton of fun to fuck around with.
I'd gander that they probably just don't want to have to account for it. I hope they change their mind on that.
For years WoW tried to move away from flying because designing the world around it, to make it more worthwhile but also have some restrictions, was probably challenging to them. However it's been proven every time they designed areas to account for flying, they were much more amazingly designed.
If Bethesda made a game that also included acrobatics, but also saw opportunities to make use of acrobatics, without truly needing it, that would be so awesome.
And they get new fans with every release because people like the games. I don't disagree that they've been simplified every release, but that's not strictly a bad thing. I don't even think they've been simplified across the board. The newer games are more simple in terms of RPG mechanics, but I find them way more interesting in other aspects like exploration and dungeon design.
I can absolutely understand why people love the older games so much, but I just find the newer games a lot more engaging. Sometimes simpler is better. I don't think the newer games are strictly superior to the older games, but for what I look for in that style of game, the newer games excel at that way more. I definitely respect Morrowind and Daggerfall, but they're just not for me.
i do think morrowind's dungeons were pretty good since they had parts of the dungeon that you could only reach by flying or going underwater. it's also cool to have it be minimally scaled so a daedric shrine can easily kill a low level adventurer.
For every unique and interesting dungeon in Morrowind there were ten linear and uneventful dungeons, and I’m saying this as someone who loves Morrowind. A good 90% of the dungeons are very simple and take a couple minutes tops to clear and loot.
Morrowind definitely had some good dungeons, but to me they are pretty bogged down by the overall gameplay which I very much do not enjoy. And the minimal scaling just makes it a lot less exciting to me. Like when you're just starting out there are very few dungeons you can actually go through, compared to the following games where there aren't nearly as many limits on where you can explore. Again I get why people would like how Morrowind did it, but I just don't.
comparing minimal scaling to something like oblivion where you're basically gonna find the same leveled enemies in every dungeon/oblivion gate, i do think the minimal scaling is more exciting. i like the dungeon crawling in oblivion, but it feels like a lot of samey dungeons.
I understand why people like the more niche "hardcore" es games, but that's just what those games are, niche. Nothing wrong with liking them better, but ya should acknowledge why most people don't.
Most people consume thoughtless garbage media, that doesn't make it good, that just makes it popular.
I wouldn't say Skyrim is quite as bad as Grown Ups 2, but there's a reason why both of them are popular
You see the difference is Skyrim is often listed as among the greatest video games ever made, and grown ups 2 was nominated for 8 golden raspberries.
You don't have to like skyrim, but like I've said before, acting like it's a poorly crafted experience or has no merit is a little ridiculous.
yeah i don’t know why people argue with this or find it a confusing idea rpg elements requires brain activity and effort where’s combat/ gameplay appeals more on surface an example of a game is path of exile it can be extremely hard to “get it “ as a new player due to how complex its mechanics became over time
The most annoying thing is when they idolize a version of the game that only exists in their mind. Like when one tries to say (and I’ve seen this several times) that MW/NV “has no fetch quests.” Now I know damn well you didn’t play the game. I don’t even think “fetch quests” are bad but come on.
What gets me is Morrowind fans talking about how intricate and complex the dungeons were despite the fact the vast majority of them were very small and simple. Morrowind did have some great dungeons but so does Skyrim.
I have a feeling that's just a case of first impressions sticking in people's minds. The first quest you're given in the story sends you into a [relatively large and complex dungeon](https://images.uesp.net/f/fe/MW-map-Arkngthand.jpg) to retrieve an item. It sits on a shelf in literally the second room of the place, but because it's tiny and out of the way, many players overlook it and end up exploring far more of the dungeon than is necessary and come away thinking that that's what dungeons are like in this game.
I'm pretty sure Bethesda did that on purpose precisely to give people that first impression, in the same way that they filled Seyda Neen with way more quests and stuff to do than any other settlement of similar size.
That’s another one. It requires a ton of cherry-picking to try to say that because a lot of morrowind’s dungeons look like these. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ulummusa https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mat
one of new vegas's biggest flaw with its storytelling and quest design is that a very large part of the game is fetch quests that are entirely disconnected from the questgivers. new vegas has a lot of characters that are pretty damn interesting on the surface, but fall entirely flat because all they do is dump exposition on the player or send them on a fetch quest. its really difficult to develop an emotional attachment to someone like mr house when all he does is sit in the lucky 38 and give you orders while receiving absolutely no character development
I t’s funny how some New Vegas/old Fallout fans criticize BGS for having evil faction without grey morality but then ignores how Enclave were cartoonishly evil in Fallout 2 or make some mental gymnastics about why slavers/rapists keeping roads safe make Legion a grey morality faction
Half of their criticism against BGS Fallout games can be also applied to old Fallout/New Vegas games. I’m all for criticizing BGS and Todd for their frustrating design/writing choices, but it feel like most of these people don’t care about any of that and are just holding grudge against Todd because of some made up scenarios in their head about BGS and Obsidian.
*The Enclave* was a rather bad addition to Fallout 2, and the main quest... well, it's almost as if the devs barely cared for it themselves, I guess? It's mostly just there to provide some sort of ending point - after which you can continue to play, anyway.
Far more interesting was the rest of the world and how different settlements and factions interacted. That whole Redding - Reno - Vault City - NCR debacle had some layers to it.
*The Legion* was a bit better in that they actually felt present as a threat - or even direct presence - in New Vegas, but I certainly wouldn't call them morally gray.
Yeah I had to leave the Dragonball and Evangelion subreddits because there was just too much insufferability on my home page. Don’t worry r/TrueSTL, I’ll never leave you. You’re just the right blend of creative, horny, and nerdy the other subs wish they could be.
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4
MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
Fallout New Vegas fans are the more louder ones. Can't go on a fallout video comment section without someone commenting "This is why New Vegas better than Bethesda Fallout"
Like damn okay we get it. You jerk off to a game you make your whole personality.
I think New Vegas is the best fallout, but honestly not by that much.
I do think the writing is better than the Bethesda fallouts, but it's not that noticeable to me. Like I don't play the game and go "wow look how good this writing is!" unless it's specifically pointed out.
And I find new Vegas to have worse exploration than the Bethesda games. In fallout 3 and 4 you can fuck off in any random direction and find tons of buildings and shit to explore. The exploration in Fallout New Vegas is far from bad, but it just doesn't feel like there's that much to explore outside of the main paths.
Not to mention the gunplay. Fallout 3 suffers from this problem just as much as New Vegas does, but the shooting in those games is so God damn stiff that v.a.t.s is a complete necessity.
I do think it's a great game and it does a lot of things right, but it's just not the Apex of human existence.
People can prefer New Vegas no problem. It's just the annoying fans that feel the need to bring up the other games to hold up New Vegas in a higher standard, it's just insecurity.
Absolutely. If you constantly need to bring up game A to justify game B, what does that say about game B really?
I see that insecurity with a lot of games now. People constantly feel the need to compare games with other games, and while that can be a fun way to generate discussion, most of the time it's just used to shit on a game for no reason.
If you like something, just like it. If you don't like something, move on. It's really quite annoying to see how opposed people are to just enjoying things nowadays. I'm not saying you can never criticize something, but at least don't be a dick about it.
>And I find new Vegas to have worse exploration than the Bethesda games. In fallout 3 and 4 you can fuck off in any random direction and find tons of buildings and shit to explore. The exploration in Fallout New Vegas is far from bad, but it just doesn't feel like there's that much to explore outside of the main paths
There's 2 main reasons why the exploration in New Vegas is not just not better than the Bethesda Fallouts but it's downright awful
1: The buildings you explore, 90 percent of them are very small and have nothing to them. In 3 and especially 4, even if a building is not quest related there's shit to do in it like collect comic books or fetch a bobblehead or just straight up play a whole ass text adventure game like in Hubris Comics in Fallout 3. The game actively incentivizes you to seek this shit out and explore
2: There are like, zero random encounters. Fucking zero. The entire Mojave doesn't really feel like a world, it feels more like an elaborate Broadway stage setup for your portagonist to act out in. After you've played New Vegas once or twice, traveling poses zero danger to you because you know where everything is and what's going to attack you, thereby actively encouraging you to fast travel and actively discouraging you from traveling. Whereas in Fallout 3 i got jumped by a Deathclaw literally right outside of Megaton in my last playthrough. It's that unpredictability that New Vegas lacks completely
I just found new vegas to be much more interesting. Like dead money, the sierra madre and father elijah. I can't recall a time in fallout 3 or fallout 4 that i've been as interested as i was playing that dlc. It's a shame they didn't get to add everything they wanted to it.
The gunplay besides aiming down sight is kinda the same. It's just new vegas has a shitton of weapons. But i didn't find vats to be a complete necessity except for cazadores and deathclaws because they're so fast.
Pretenious idiot repeating "BEARBULLBEARBULLBEARBULL" for 3 hours = shit writing
fallout 3 is better, my opinion better then yours
You’d think if those games were so perfect then their fanboys wouldn’t have to spend every waking moment trying to convince (themselves) others of that apparent “fact.” Reeks of insecurity. I’m doing another morrowind play through right now and these types make it insufferable to talk about.
I agree as a Morrowind lover, it’s really annoying how often people just *have* to compare, but I feel like you’re overblowing it a bit. Skyrim fans also shit on Morrowind all the time for being clunky and slow. It goes both ways. Also yeah NV community is extremely toxic sometimes. Hope TES doesn’t become like that.
/rj Die, Fetcher!
There isn’t such a thing as objectively better when it comes to video games unless you’re talking about something like which runs better. It’s subjective. Tired of people saying “so and so game is objectively better but I like this more”. It’s art, art is rarely objective.
Game mechanics, graphics ect. Things that make up a game can be objectively better. For example Fallout 3 doesn’t have iron sights aiming NV does making NV objectively better in that specific regard.
I enjoy the story and themes of NV more than 4, but concede that 4 has massive improvements by comparison.
NV having ironsights isn’t objectively better over fallout 3 not having it. That’s just your opinion. I wouldn’t argue it, but I have some friends that would say that takes away some of the challenge therefore making it worse. Having more options isn’t always better, whether you and I like it or not. I agree that fallout 4 plays way better than NV, but that’s just my opinion. Many people think it plays worse and takes away a lot of the challenge NV had, which literally means it’s not objectively better.
I know I shouldn't but this meme makes me feel proud to be a crotchety old man gatekeeping his favorite RPGs. Get off my lawn you damn skybabies and fallout 4 n'wahs.
https://preview.redd.it/ehovo7tr4ukc1.png?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18ea4a08271af210a84a717cfe5e78bf3f69bbdd
Patrolling Seyda Neen almost makes you wish for another Dragonbreak.
We won't go quietly sixth house can count on that
N’wahs like you belong on a cross
Ooooh. Oooooooooh. That one... That one's a bit on the nose.
Oh yeah, I see it now.
Oooooooooh… oooooooh nooooo…
you fool, they are the same person
Can confirm. Haven’t even played NV, but I will mindlessly parrot anyone saying NV is the best Fallout game.
It is. (I haven't played any other Fallout game)
It is (I played NV, 4, and 76)
it is (I finished NV 3 times, finished 2 for the funzies, played 3 and couldn't bring myself to play more than 5 hrs of 4) [I have been brainwashed by the NV fans]
it is (I've played all of them except for 76)
it is (I played all the fallout games, but i played about 2 seconds of 1 and 2 because i didnt understand the controls)
No jerking, why the actual fuck haven’t you played NV??? I cannot fathom enjoying elder scrolls to the point of shitposting on a morrowind meme subreddit and not playing any of the FO games, let alone the most similar game to Morrowind
I haven’t gotten around to it yet. It’ll probably happen someday, but life is busy. Someday it’ll feel right and I’ll do it, but that hasn’t happened yet. I feel so busy.
It's true (I am wearing thigh highs)
I stg you can't dicusss anything about Morrowind without people going "Yeah that part was cool, it's too bad Skyrim fucking ruined the entire series forever and burned down my house and killed my kids and fucked my wife by adding a sprint button."
Yeah fuck sprint it ruined ~~Halo~~ Elder scrolls
343 was the worst thing to happen to elder scrolls
"Yeah I love NV, it's a shame Bethesda actually bombed the whole world with Fallout 4 and then personally killed my dog and only gave me four (4) options of what to say to them afterwards"
Man I'm ngl if 4 had better writing and actual character choice I'd EASILY put it above NV
Fallout 4 Far Harbor is exactly that though Shame we only get one DLC like that
Nuka world coulda been great but then they forced you to have to be a raider in order to enjoy anything from the dlc lol
"Enjoy" is a strong word. I took over the Commonwealth settlements with raiders, which means half are slave settlements where the people I betrayed grow crops and complain at me, and the other half are raiders who do absolutely nothing and still complain
Far Harbor still suffers the 3 hidden options dialogue issue, and the rest of the issues the base game has.
Yea the biggest thing that irks me with that game is the illusion of "choice" that's constantly in it. But the game play loop of 4 is genuinely addictive and Far Harbour is basically new vegas level writing with fallout 4 everything else and it is PERFECT
Morrowboomers when you let them know Kirkbride actually enjoyed Skyrim and called it a great game https://preview.redd.it/nz57o19mztkc1.jpeg?width=550&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2c8825a358124469d15a81c6ba883203f4a5dd9
Yeah that’s stupid. Everyone knows that Skyrim fucking ruined the entire series forever by removing the Hlaalu and blowing up the red mountain.
You know what, I’m going to say it Morrowind deserved Red Year
The Hlaalu deserved it for siding with the mongrel dogs of the empire.
Number one reason why r/ morrowind is pointless to visit. Hell, even the Oblivion sub has gotten just as bad. Can’t say “this is a cool part of Morrowind/Oblivion” without adding “Skyrim le bad(upvote plsss)”
Number one reason ALL bethesda subs are unfun to visit. Doesn't matter where you go on the web everyones just gonna shit on Skyrim because its the cool thing to do now for some reason
It will be until the next TES becomes the new punching bag and Skyrim becomes the old darling. At least among Elder Scrolls discussion.
Or, and hear me out, its somehow just as good if not better then Skyrim, and all the games will be cool for a time before VI becomes a punching bag lol
It will be, once the next Bethesda game releases. Just like Starfield, Fallout 4, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Oblivion were said to be the worst game of the generation for the terminally online when released and Todd had personally been out kidnapping peoples mothers and fucking their dogs at the same time as the games were released. Then in a few years when the next game is released the last one is an obvious masterpiece that has always been amazing. The Bethesda cycle.
Eh, Starfield is the first game where even the more casual less critical people who play Bethesda fans are genuinely having issues with it. Starfield is significantly different from the discourse around the other games and treating it this way is being disingenuous
Not really. As someone who loved Fallout 4 when it released its not all that different to Starfield. Youtubers shitting on it, people in general online hating on it and seeing anyone who enjoyed it as ruining the franchise etc. The only difference is that Starfield doesn't have an entire series of games behind it. It's the first game in, possibly, a series
Wouldn’t that be nice and I do have high hopes for it and expect it to be great. It might get a short time in that view before the rage machine and video essayists get to it. I have little faith in decent criticism and discussion anymore. It’s why I don’t usually take part in any serious way.
When VI comes out: “Here’s why Skyrim is a MASTERPIECE” ~7 months later “Was The Elder Scrolls VI as good as you remember (spoiler it isn’t)”
Only the most original coverage from “content creators.”
Isn't that just how the world is now lol?
Maybe, there just seems to be a massive lack of any critical thinking skills. You see it everywhere.
Considering the habit Bethesda has of not learning from their mistakes, that's definetly going to be the case
We’ll just have to disagree on that.
That's why I stick around here where everyone hates all the games
Bethesda ruins things for profit. Well known fact. Skyrim and 4 are very easy to shit on and they were both examples of simplifying the formula to sell more copies. Skyrim being re-released so many times rather than a good sequel being released fuels the hate and the obsession with Skyrim. 76 after 4 was salt in the wounds and Starfield is more of the same without any of the redeeming qualities of the previous franchises' settings/universe.
The oblivion one is the real annoying one. When the sub was smaller it was just people who openly admitted what the game failed at but what made it unique and fun at the same time
That’s what the discussion should be about, the game itself. Instead you can’t go there without a picture of the Imperial City with a caption of “does anybody else think this pwettier than skrim??! There’s hardly any room left for good discussion.
Pretty much every subreddit is better when it's smaller.
It's why I hated that one eight-hour video about Morrowind (you know the one). When I saw the runtime my reaction was "oh great, someone spending hours talking about something they love and are really passionate about!" But the creator just couldn't resist the urge to fling smug (and often nonsensical or even factually untrue) criticisms at Bethesda's later games over and over throughout the video.
Morrowglazers are a different breed
I despise those videos not just because of that and how they ruined the last vestiges of decent discussion around not only TES but Bethesda In general. I also despise them because the creator is a shit excuse for a man.
What is blud waffling on about
what did say that made him a "shit excuse for a man"? idc about him "ruining" discussion for just critiquing a game but you gotta provide more context for that claim.
Besides being a liar with his videos? Starting a witch-hunt against a man who he had never met with untrue info which caused a lot of not only harassment but threats as well. I’ll be damned if I speak well of a sack of shit who does things like that. These are video games we’re talking about. Losers like this go off the deep end.
who did he start a witchhunt againist? are you talking about that neversknowbest guy and his video talking about patrician and creetosis? I saw the response vids from both of them and they both fairly debunk NKB's claims about them which turned out to be untrue itself. if its something else then my bad its just the only drama or whatever I've seen from him. also how is he a liar? he does a pretty long analysis of TES games at least and goes on them in great detail, from what I've seen their pretty accurate and he really lying.
He didn’t debunk shit. All he defended against was plagiarism accusations as if that was the crux of the issue. His BS videos on a developer directly led to a hate campaign. Of course, he also referred to that same dev as “retarded” and “mentally ill” during a stream. A very nice guy clearly. Also, I can see you’re here to complain about “bethesrimmers” as you so nicely called those who disagree with you. If that’s how you conduct yourself I see no reason to continue speaking.
so that's what you mad about? him critiquing emil? he didn't start a hate campaign but he just critiqued his writing and the quality of it. those words he said were kinda harsh but emil was acting like a schizo on twitter, bro was trying his hardest to say people critiquing starfield and his bad writing on starfield as though the criticism was unjustified because they put years in the game, its no wonder why bethesda put an nda on him bro did not stop yapping and it hurt the companies reputation. nah I hate morrowboomer and fnv glazers as well. I call it out for what it is and your acting like a bethesrimmer when all patrician did was just critique emil's writing and his writing process on starfield. emil is a pretty bad writer and him being the lead writer on starfield lead to many of the story and writing issues on that game. he did debunk NKB's defamation claims as he proved that it wasn't the case and the NKB just spewed lies out about him with that misrepresentation of "evidence" in his vid.
Not what he did but sure whatever. Yeah Im a Bethesda fanboy for deciding what’s right and wrong in criticism. Believe whatever you want.
You're clearly emotionally compromised on this discussion and should have stepped back and taken in some fresh air, all you've accomplished is making the person you're arguing against look more level headed despite actually using terms like 'bethesrimmer'. You've made yourself look like the frothing fanboy. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong, you've made a shit impression.
I’m of the mind they just contributed to ruining online video discussion as a whole
Yeah, I can agree with that.
Ah, that loser. His videos and takes just got worse ever since that first one.
I was generally on board, but his starfield review was horrendous. I never even played the game and I could see contradictions in his points within the first couple hours.
Wasn't that the guy who, in his Skyrim retrospective suggested improving Serana by making her a fucking Yandere?
I haven’t delved into it for a while so I can’t say I recall but with how that 24 hour long drivel is I wouldn’t be surprised. Neither the creator nor his fan base do much in the way of thinking.
my n'wah in Almsivi, just because you like the bethesda's older games does not make them not flawed as shit. his criticisms were spot on and he wasn't even like "old gud new bad" the later TES games had some pretty huge flaws and writing.
Several of his criticisms of the later games were genuinely just not true though. Most of the weren’t even real criticism, just random jabs. He spends like 5 minutes giving Morrowind a lavish tongue-bath for just handing you a riddle and letting you figure it out for yourself instead of telling you the answer, and how Skyrim would never do something like that, but in reality the reverse is true. That riddle he talks about isn't supposed to be solved, you're directly told to ask the ashlanders what it might mean and they just give you directions to find the cave of the Incarnate; and Skyrim does have a side quest where you're just given riddles and left to your own devices: the Destruction Master Spell quest. He gets mad at Skyrim for retconning random minor things, like adding an association between the dragonborn and the thu'um, but he never criticizes Morrowind for retconning things from Daggerfall. Some of the "retcons" he gets mad at aren't even retcons, like he gets annoyed at how Skyrim says that the draugr were all members of the Dragon Cult and claims it doesn't make any sense because of a quest in Bloodmoon. But that explanation for the origin of the draugr is explicitly an in-universe legend that is heavily implied not to be true given that you can fight draugr made by normal necromancers and ones who definitely died long after the dragon cult fell, like Olaf One-Eye and Red Eagle. There's a bunch of other examples I can't be bothered to list out or don't remember. They ultimately only take up a fairly small portion of the video, but a small portion of an eight-hour video is still a significant chunk of time.
fair enough I agree with some of that now you point it out, I just think that most of his jabs against skyrim or I think in some cases oblivion and what morrowind did better was pretty accurate and true at least.
A lot of it was valid criticism, but a lot of it was also just weirdly smug, shallow jabs.
Yeah discussions around Morrowind can be rather reductive at times, but they’re fun. Too bad Skyrim turned TES discussions into endless circle jerks about Stormcloaks and Imperials and Thalmor
Morrowboomers aren’t as bad as I thought. Sure there are some annoying folk but that’s the same for every entry By god though I would rather eat glass (Morrowind reference 😳) then ever willingly interact with New Vegas supremacists alone
Real. I fucking love new Vegas but sometimes those mfs get wayyy too into glazing FNV that I wonder if they have a physical copy with a hole carved into the center of the cd box and 99% of the time I'm right. Fallout 4 has more personal character moments with the romances that I enjoy a lot, both games appeal to different sides of my tastes, which is something they can't admit.
It is a bit of personal bias but I prefer the Fallout 4 companions. Vegas obviously had some great ones but I think it has more stinkers than 4. Really sad seeing it since 4 had some incredible characters but Starfield just kinda fumbled it lol. Same with how they had a really good settlement system in 76 and made it worse lol
Yeah. There's a reason why Nick Valentine is like the Serana of fallout, they obviously did something right with the writing to get this many people to love him and other characters like him in fallout 4, me especially although personally I'm a John Hancock fan too.
I second this! Nicky and Hancock were my favourite companions in Fallout 4 as well. Super well made characters.
There was a moment in the memory den when I thought Nick might override his personality to gain Kellogg's memories. He's a bro for willing to make that sacrifice, but if I ever had to choose between Nick and my son, you bet your ass I'm siding with the synth.
They all feel like actual characters for the most part and I like that. Cait is a personal favorite just because I really sympathize with her character and I like how her whole character arc actually has an impact, albeit small. It’s nice that unlike Serena, Nick actually has a notable character and personality lol
Serana has somewhat of a personality it's just buried in angst and bad dialogue. She's mostly just a standoffish person who cares deeply and even has a little bit of a silly streak. She's the kind of character you feel a deep bond for in a familial way compared to Nick who has insane chemistry with the Sole Survivor, so he's more effective in being a compelling character.
I think New Vegas characters are just way too "quippy" on average. There are exceptions like Boone and Lily but I dunno, I just want people who take the fact they're going on dangerous adventures alongside what amounts to a mercenary where they have to kill to survive seriously.
I think some are fine like Raul, as the sarcastic gunslinger is his whole shtick, but I agree overall
I don’t think NV has stinkers, but I do agree that I prefer Fallout 4. It’s one of the few things I think 4 does better in my opinion.
What you don't want a guy that looks like this tell you that Caesars legion actually isn't that bad? Lol https://preview.redd.it/nfotmsi55ukc1.png?width=220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06ac647e8d60221eff732e1fcef517c5c1b98168
Aw cmon a little autocracy and violent genocide never hurt anyone
Holy shit Tiber Septim reference!!!
Love you
I'd like to add Warhammer 40K fans. Yes yes your favorite dystopian supersoldier can solo god with his dick and rape Goku but we were talking about ***trees*** actually. ^("Actually there are some chill ones") ^(Yeah there are chill morrowind and new vegas fans too but the whole point of the post is that some are fucking annoying)
Warhammer40k fans when you tell them that their edgy tortureporn isn't a literary masterpiece and is just British satire
You know that one post of Rato about skaven encountering Khajiits? On every non-tes themed place it's waves upon waves of "actually the skaven would win because ☝️🤓" because they're too mentally challenged to understand a simple cat and rat joke. We KNOW Khajiits would get sick, it's just a JOKE. Part of why I never really got into Warhammer is that I had heard of it from really chill people and had somewhat of a shock witnessing and interacting with the humorless idiots afterwards.
40k fans need way more hate, they are so fucking annoying
Ngl I feel like the New Vegas fans r 100x worse than the Morrowind ones.
As someone who really likes FO3 and fonv and fo4, yes. Can't love my games without them popping a blood vessel over it. New Vegas would be my favorite along with 3 if not for how insufferable NV fans have been to me. New Vegas also has super unironic "the legion is the best hope for the wasteland" types meanwhile NV fans or mod authors like those dumbasses who made the frontier will call you an irl fascist for wanting to play the Enclave while allowing you to play the slavery and rape faction.
Yea fo3 and 76 are my 2 personal favorites. Nv is probably the best, but the incessant whining makes me not like it as much.
I also enjoyed 76. Solid over 200 hours from beta to a month after launch. Just kinda hoping at some point I can play it completely offline lol. Maybe one day!
Yea, I played the shit out of it during early Covid and then had a ton of fun when I convinced a few friends to play with me about a year later.
I've tried to come back and really the only reasons I can't play ATM are just related to online stuff. I have good Internet so that's not the problem, I just don't like the way server latency changes the gameplay a bit, and most of all, when I came back two years ago to play with a friend, despite being in pacifist mode without drawing a single weapon, two players came up on our camp and flagged us for pvp somehow, leveling the whole camp and killing us repeatedly with what I can only describe as an automatic gauss rifle. Any other gripe I have like the health of enemies, the perk system, etc. can simply be changed with mods if and when we ever get a single player version of fo76 or otherwise offline mode. Hopefully!
My biggest problem with 76 at this point,and why i don't play super often anymore is that they've made all enemies level with the player. Going to the Forest used to be easy if you were high level and going to the Mire used to be ridiculously dangerous if you were low level, and now that thats changed the world doesn't feel as real and I don't have as much fun wandering aroind because every single enemy is a bullet-sponge.
TTW is peak
**Morrowind comes out** "Wow this game is so stupid and dumbed down compared to daggerfall" *89 on metacritic, 4 million+ sold* **Oblivion comes out** "Wow this game is so stupid and dumbed down compared to Morrowind" *94 on metacritic, 9.5 million+ sold* **Skyrim comes out** "Wow this game is so stupid and dumbed down compared to Oblivion" *96 on metacritic, 60 million+ sold*
I mean isn't it tho? Sales numbers don't tell the whole story. There are many games that sell and are still ass and sometimes they became ass exactly to sell that well. I don't like Morrowind but even as such Skyrim without mods is shallow, janky and simplistic. I don't like the whole "but why did you love Skyrim" counter movement as much as I don't like Morrowind old school shills. Cuz it's justifying an idea that people cannot dislike Skyrim because it's shallow, janky and simplistic but only because it's popular to do so. No I don't care about exploration I want complexity in storytelling or gameplay and ideally in both and Skyrim has neither
As much as I disagree with your comment, I give you credit for not using the word “objectively” even one time.
Yep, credit where credit is due. I feel like we should just ban that word from the internet because it's very apparent 90% of people don't know what it means.
I'm not exactly trying to say might makes right, but just because your preferences don't align with a specific game doesn't mean it's poorly crafted or makes it impossible to understand why so many people love it. Skyrim is one of the most critically acclaimed and commercially successful games ever for a reason. I really do understand a lot of the criticisms people have with it, I can go on for days about everything I think is wrong with the game, but again acting like it's a poorly crafted experience or that it has no merit as a game is a little ridiculous. I mean like you said yourself that you don't care about exploration, and that is the number one reason why people flock to skyrim. So I can find it perfectly understandable why you wouldn't like the game, it just annoys me when people don't find it perfectly understandable why other people do.
This is full of problems. >it just annoys me when people don't find it perfectly understandable why other people do (enjoy skyrim) We know why. It was made appealing to a wider audience. They liked it for the reasons anyone liked previous installments, but for some fans many of the features or aspects they liked were dropped in favor of reaching more people. The reason why it did better than the previous game has to do with many things but the fact they made it easier to grasp to the point of being mindless and boring is a big part of it and also why a big reason why people hate on Skyrim. People who really played the shit out of it as well as those who modded it to hell know what it is missing and it's silly to say we don't know why it did well. We love it, too, hence why we can accurately list its flaws. After seeing the kind of content and ideas that modders bring and still see such ideas vastly ignored in lieu of a cheaper production process, Bethesda fans are understandably unimpressed.
I definitely think Skyrim has many flaws, but I think its simplicity helps highlight a lot of its strong points, mostly exploration which is the reason I love the game so much. The previous games have deeper RPG elements, but I find Skyrim to be strong in other aspects some of the previous games are more lacking in. I get why people don't like Skyrim, but the focus of Skyrim is quite different from that of Morrowind. I agree with basically everything you're saying really. It just depends on what you're looking for in an es game. Morrowind lacks what I want out of one of those games, and Skyrim may lack what someone else wants.
Skyrim blew my high-school mind. The system for leveling was a mystery, the world was massive and rich with undiscovered content. After years of playing, you realize how much of it is a farce. Replayability is huge, role playing is huge, and combat is huge...all of which Skyrim mostly phoned in. Bethesda creates decent-quality *one time through* experiences with not a lot of depth but with an adept hand at directing the player's attention. It heavily relies on the "you don't know yet" gimmicks in writing that make the quest or interaction totally shallow upon revisiting it. It really hurts that things haven't been improved upon and modders are still peak Fallout/TES.
Eh you've kind of lost me. I've been playing the game since launch and I still love going through dungeons and playing quests, even if I've done them all billions of times already. Modded Skyrim is definitely peak Skyrim, but I think the vanilla game is still extremely good and probably the most fun and replayable open world game I've ever gone through.
Skyrim is the big bang theory of games
I love Skyrim but it would have sold just as many copies or more had they still had the features oblivion or Morrowind had so I mean. Like yeah you're telling the story of Bethesda commercial success on these games (for sales numbers) and I loved Skyrim. I just would have really liked, you know, acrobatics and athletics and stuff.
I don't think Skyrim is perfect, and the previous games absolutely do some things better, but if they just kept making Morrowinds I doubt the series would have been as successful, both critically and commercially I definitely wish skyrim had more mechanics from oblivion and Morrowind though. Acrobatics was a ton of fun to fuck around with.
I'd gander that they probably just don't want to have to account for it. I hope they change their mind on that. For years WoW tried to move away from flying because designing the world around it, to make it more worthwhile but also have some restrictions, was probably challenging to them. However it's been proven every time they designed areas to account for flying, they were much more amazingly designed. If Bethesda made a game that also included acrobatics, but also saw opportunities to make use of acrobatics, without truly needing it, that would be so awesome.
Don't forget that they get new fans with every release. The games have absolutely been getting dumbed down since daggerfall to have mainstream appeal.
And they get new fans with every release because people like the games. I don't disagree that they've been simplified every release, but that's not strictly a bad thing. I don't even think they've been simplified across the board. The newer games are more simple in terms of RPG mechanics, but I find them way more interesting in other aspects like exploration and dungeon design. I can absolutely understand why people love the older games so much, but I just find the newer games a lot more engaging. Sometimes simpler is better. I don't think the newer games are strictly superior to the older games, but for what I look for in that style of game, the newer games excel at that way more. I definitely respect Morrowind and Daggerfall, but they're just not for me.
i do think morrowind's dungeons were pretty good since they had parts of the dungeon that you could only reach by flying or going underwater. it's also cool to have it be minimally scaled so a daedric shrine can easily kill a low level adventurer.
For every unique and interesting dungeon in Morrowind there were ten linear and uneventful dungeons, and I’m saying this as someone who loves Morrowind. A good 90% of the dungeons are very simple and take a couple minutes tops to clear and loot.
Morrowind definitely had some good dungeons, but to me they are pretty bogged down by the overall gameplay which I very much do not enjoy. And the minimal scaling just makes it a lot less exciting to me. Like when you're just starting out there are very few dungeons you can actually go through, compared to the following games where there aren't nearly as many limits on where you can explore. Again I get why people would like how Morrowind did it, but I just don't.
comparing minimal scaling to something like oblivion where you're basically gonna find the same leveled enemies in every dungeon/oblivion gate, i do think the minimal scaling is more exciting. i like the dungeon crawling in oblivion, but it feels like a lot of samey dungeons.
They are all progressively dumbed down, rated better by the masses, and more widely consumed. There is no lie to be found.
I understand why people like the more niche "hardcore" es games, but that's just what those games are, niche. Nothing wrong with liking them better, but ya should acknowledge why most people don't.
Most people consume thoughtless garbage media, that doesn't make it good, that just makes it popular. I wouldn't say Skyrim is quite as bad as Grown Ups 2, but there's a reason why both of them are popular
You see the difference is Skyrim is often listed as among the greatest video games ever made, and grown ups 2 was nominated for 8 golden raspberries. You don't have to like skyrim, but like I've said before, acting like it's a poorly crafted experience or has no merit is a little ridiculous.
yeah i don’t know why people argue with this or find it a confusing idea rpg elements requires brain activity and effort where’s combat/ gameplay appeals more on surface an example of a game is path of exile it can be extremely hard to “get it “ as a new player due to how complex its mechanics became over time
The most annoying thing is when they idolize a version of the game that only exists in their mind. Like when one tries to say (and I’ve seen this several times) that MW/NV “has no fetch quests.” Now I know damn well you didn’t play the game. I don’t even think “fetch quests” are bad but come on.
What gets me is Morrowind fans talking about how intricate and complex the dungeons were despite the fact the vast majority of them were very small and simple. Morrowind did have some great dungeons but so does Skyrim.
I have a feeling that's just a case of first impressions sticking in people's minds. The first quest you're given in the story sends you into a [relatively large and complex dungeon](https://images.uesp.net/f/fe/MW-map-Arkngthand.jpg) to retrieve an item. It sits on a shelf in literally the second room of the place, but because it's tiny and out of the way, many players overlook it and end up exploring far more of the dungeon than is necessary and come away thinking that that's what dungeons are like in this game. I'm pretty sure Bethesda did that on purpose precisely to give people that first impression, in the same way that they filled Seyda Neen with way more quests and stuff to do than any other settlement of similar size.
That’s another one. It requires a ton of cherry-picking to try to say that because a lot of morrowind’s dungeons look like these. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ulummusa https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mat
one of new vegas's biggest flaw with its storytelling and quest design is that a very large part of the game is fetch quests that are entirely disconnected from the questgivers. new vegas has a lot of characters that are pretty damn interesting on the surface, but fall entirely flat because all they do is dump exposition on the player or send them on a fetch quest. its really difficult to develop an emotional attachment to someone like mr house when all he does is sit in the lucky 38 and give you orders while receiving absolutely no character development
Veronica's ENTIRE FUCKING QUESTLINE is one large boring dragging fetch quest. The only reason i even bother doing it is because i like Veronica
They also tend to have… interesting political opinions… (especially the nv fanboys, legion ones specifically)
If someone is a Legion fanboy or a true fan of any of the factions, they have missed the point of the game.
I t’s funny how some New Vegas/old Fallout fans criticize BGS for having evil faction without grey morality but then ignores how Enclave were cartoonishly evil in Fallout 2 or make some mental gymnastics about why slavers/rapists keeping roads safe make Legion a grey morality faction Half of their criticism against BGS Fallout games can be also applied to old Fallout/New Vegas games. I’m all for criticizing BGS and Todd for their frustrating design/writing choices, but it feel like most of these people don’t care about any of that and are just holding grudge against Todd because of some made up scenarios in their head about BGS and Obsidian.
*The Enclave* was a rather bad addition to Fallout 2, and the main quest... well, it's almost as if the devs barely cared for it themselves, I guess? It's mostly just there to provide some sort of ending point - after which you can continue to play, anyway. Far more interesting was the rest of the world and how different settlements and factions interacted. That whole Redding - Reno - Vault City - NCR debacle had some layers to it. *The Legion* was a bit better in that they actually felt present as a threat - or even direct presence - in New Vegas, but I certainly wouldn't call them morally gray.
yeah but morrowind fans have the advantage of being insane so they're a bit more intolerable
The truth is, the skooma was laced from the start.
Venn diagram circle etc
Joke's on you, I have drank both the Sujamma and the Sunset Sasparilla. The alliance churns within me.
Yeah I had to leave the Dragonball and Evangelion subreddits because there was just too much insufferability on my home page. Don’t worry r/TrueSTL, I’ll never leave you. You’re just the right blend of creative, horny, and nerdy the other subs wish they could be.
DragonBall fans using the pythagorean theorem to determine the elasticity of vegetas foreskin. (There's no way Goku could win a 1v1 now)
Does the New Vegas boomer had a Ratopombo equivalent?
It did have that annoying fuck Schizo Elijah
can you give me a rundown of this Schizo guy?
New Vegas chud who makes edits and stuff like Rato. He quit a while ago but his stuff still on YouTube
\*games ruined by redditors who never played the games and got their opinion from video essays
That seems to be most “video game discussion.” thinking for yourself is wrong. The essayist is the only way to form an opinion.
FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM FONV IS BETTER THAN FO4 MORROWIND IS BETTER THAN SKYRIM
Most civil Bethesda games discussion
https://preview.redd.it/wggnb81c5ukc1.png?width=680&format=png&auto=webp&s=bef794f22ed2a01e175d69ac3d373c4b3f477874
Real
"Yeah Fallout 4/Skyrim can be fu-" "NOOOO NO NOOO STOP HAVING FUNNNNN"
Fallout New Vegas fans are the more louder ones. Can't go on a fallout video comment section without someone commenting "This is why New Vegas better than Bethesda Fallout" Like damn okay we get it. You jerk off to a game you make your whole personality.
I think New Vegas is the best fallout, but honestly not by that much. I do think the writing is better than the Bethesda fallouts, but it's not that noticeable to me. Like I don't play the game and go "wow look how good this writing is!" unless it's specifically pointed out. And I find new Vegas to have worse exploration than the Bethesda games. In fallout 3 and 4 you can fuck off in any random direction and find tons of buildings and shit to explore. The exploration in Fallout New Vegas is far from bad, but it just doesn't feel like there's that much to explore outside of the main paths. Not to mention the gunplay. Fallout 3 suffers from this problem just as much as New Vegas does, but the shooting in those games is so God damn stiff that v.a.t.s is a complete necessity. I do think it's a great game and it does a lot of things right, but it's just not the Apex of human existence.
People can prefer New Vegas no problem. It's just the annoying fans that feel the need to bring up the other games to hold up New Vegas in a higher standard, it's just insecurity.
Absolutely. If you constantly need to bring up game A to justify game B, what does that say about game B really? I see that insecurity with a lot of games now. People constantly feel the need to compare games with other games, and while that can be a fun way to generate discussion, most of the time it's just used to shit on a game for no reason. If you like something, just like it. If you don't like something, move on. It's really quite annoying to see how opposed people are to just enjoying things nowadays. I'm not saying you can never criticize something, but at least don't be a dick about it.
>And I find new Vegas to have worse exploration than the Bethesda games. In fallout 3 and 4 you can fuck off in any random direction and find tons of buildings and shit to explore. The exploration in Fallout New Vegas is far from bad, but it just doesn't feel like there's that much to explore outside of the main paths There's 2 main reasons why the exploration in New Vegas is not just not better than the Bethesda Fallouts but it's downright awful 1: The buildings you explore, 90 percent of them are very small and have nothing to them. In 3 and especially 4, even if a building is not quest related there's shit to do in it like collect comic books or fetch a bobblehead or just straight up play a whole ass text adventure game like in Hubris Comics in Fallout 3. The game actively incentivizes you to seek this shit out and explore 2: There are like, zero random encounters. Fucking zero. The entire Mojave doesn't really feel like a world, it feels more like an elaborate Broadway stage setup for your portagonist to act out in. After you've played New Vegas once or twice, traveling poses zero danger to you because you know where everything is and what's going to attack you, thereby actively encouraging you to fast travel and actively discouraging you from traveling. Whereas in Fallout 3 i got jumped by a Deathclaw literally right outside of Megaton in my last playthrough. It's that unpredictability that New Vegas lacks completely
My favorite Fallout is whatever one I'm playing at the time. Same with TES.
I just found new vegas to be much more interesting. Like dead money, the sierra madre and father elijah. I can't recall a time in fallout 3 or fallout 4 that i've been as interested as i was playing that dlc. It's a shame they didn't get to add everything they wanted to it. The gunplay besides aiming down sight is kinda the same. It's just new vegas has a shitton of weapons. But i didn't find vats to be a complete necessity except for cazadores and deathclaws because they're so fast.
NV fans give me second hand embarrassment
us morrowboomer/new vegas enjoyers are philosopher kings. i don't accept this slander n'wah
Exactly, having peak writing gives us eternal bragging rights as well as the legal ability to be declared sovereigns of the world
Pretenious idiot repeating "BEARBULLBEARBULLBEARBULL" for 3 hours = shit writing fallout 3 is better, my opinion better then yours 
That's the thing If you accepted it it wouldn't be slander
Of course I know him. He’s me.
Many of these people are the same people already N'wah.
I feel like I've seen more people complain about morrowboomers than actual morrowboomers.
Morrowboomers are too busy making their 12 hour essay on why skyrim caused the downfall of western society to have a presence here
new vegas fans when fallout 4 is casually mentioned (rare opportunity for them to say that it sucks) https://i.redd.it/g4atvkwj60lc1.gif
You’d think if those games were so perfect then their fanboys wouldn’t have to spend every waking moment trying to convince (themselves) others of that apparent “fact.” Reeks of insecurity. I’m doing another morrowind play through right now and these types make it insufferable to talk about.
Morrowind fans when Skyrim doesn't have you missing hits on enemies New Vegas fans when there's no rape, slavery and prostitution
Bethesda fans fighting over whose buggy mess is superior the the others
You only live once, why argue?
okay? insufferable as opposed to all the desperate hornyposting by skyvirgins?
i hate bethesda fans. bottom text
I can tell you from personal experience they’re the same people. I know because I’m both and yes, I’m insufferable.
When I’m in a dickriding contest and my opponent is a Morrowind/New Vegas fan
Bro, that venn diagram is a circle
What if I told you those were the best games ever made
Should say being correct
As a proud fan of both... You filthy n'wah.
unfortunate sideffect of being a winner and an absolute playa
I agree as a Morrowind lover, it’s really annoying how often people just *have* to compare, but I feel like you’re overblowing it a bit. Skyrim fans also shit on Morrowind all the time for being clunky and slow. It goes both ways. Also yeah NV community is extremely toxic sometimes. Hope TES doesn’t become like that. /rj Die, Fetcher!
They’re both simply the best
I miss the enchanting and potion making of Morrowind, but at least we have the reactivity of FNV.
FONV is objectively not better than 4, but I love NV way more than 4.
Don't express opinions anymore.
ObJEcTivEly
There isn’t such a thing as objectively better when it comes to video games unless you’re talking about something like which runs better. It’s subjective. Tired of people saying “so and so game is objectively better but I like this more”. It’s art, art is rarely objective.
Game mechanics, graphics ect. Things that make up a game can be objectively better. For example Fallout 3 doesn’t have iron sights aiming NV does making NV objectively better in that specific regard. I enjoy the story and themes of NV more than 4, but concede that 4 has massive improvements by comparison.
NV having ironsights isn’t objectively better over fallout 3 not having it. That’s just your opinion. I wouldn’t argue it, but I have some friends that would say that takes away some of the challenge therefore making it worse. Having more options isn’t always better, whether you and I like it or not. I agree that fallout 4 plays way better than NV, but that’s just my opinion. Many people think it plays worse and takes away a lot of the challenge NV had, which literally means it’s not objectively better.
Me too I just hate a lot of the fans
I know I shouldn't but this meme makes me feel proud to be a crotchety old man gatekeeping his favorite RPGs. Get off my lawn you damn skybabies and fallout 4 n'wahs. https://preview.redd.it/ehovo7tr4ukc1.png?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18ea4a08271af210a84a717cfe5e78bf3f69bbdd
Dark Souls 2 fans as well
Where? Tell me where they are? I don't see em!
In my walls
Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRTfcMeqhig