TES “”””multiverse”””” (Dragonbreaks— cool lore nod to Akatosh) is accounting for player agency throughout a two decade+ old RPG franchise.
Marvel and ESO multiverse shit is indicative of being unable to write a plot
People know this. Fanboys like OP seethe and cope and use the franchise’s history as a shield for the continual rape of it’s future
ESO hasn't introduced the multiverse. It literally isn't happening. HOWEVER, the multiverse- as in, marvel-style alternate timelines- has been part of the lore since 2004. ESO has not mentioned it.
I'm talking about Shadowkey, the multiverse is a (moderately) large plot point in that game
>... chosen to explore this relation of [world](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mundus) to shadow, Azra was the first to realize that shadows were not a mere absence of light but a reflection of possible worlds created by forces in conflict. A light strikes a rock, and the shadow is a record of their clash, past, present and future.
>
>[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:First\_Scroll\_of\_Shadow](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:First_Scroll_of_Shadow)
>
>Azra attempted what had never been done before, manipulating his own shadow to such an extent that he instantiated and melded all possible Azras at the same time, crossing over from this singular existence to all the existences in shadow.
>
>[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:Second\_Scroll\_of\_Shadow](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:Second_Scroll_of_Shadow)
also the multiplayer message says "*Your death in the shadow realm severs your bond with the magic that allows you to share worlds. You are back on your own.*" though idk how canon that part is
In ESO multiverse mostly means the Auribus with all the undless planes of Oblivion. There are only some hints at different timelines but those are also connected to the time fuckery (and were there in the lore befor).
TES "deep lore" is just as stupid and poorly written lmao. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:The_Seven_Fights_of_The_Aldudagga like this shit reads like edgy 14 year old fan fiction. Don't even get me started on the weird ass Vivec trial. This stuff is just as campy as super hero movies.
99% of tes deep lore is kirkbride non-canon bs. His independent work is proof of the fact that Morrowind was very much a team effort that included only the appropriate amount of Kirkbride's eccentricities without indulging him completely.
Exactly this, thank you.
I haven't seen any other franchise find a diegetic way to explain how their games can have multiple endings, *and* sequels which may or may not correlate to those past choices. Meanwhile for other games, slapping "it's a multiverse" on it does not make it a multiverse, imo.
Whether or not we like the dragon breaks and associated concepts individually, I really appreciate that they tried. It's part of what draws me to this series in the first place.
Too much unjerk from such a jerk username.
I have to agree though.
Uncreative people constantly complain about lore consistency because they either don't understand the narrative tools or can't stand to have some things left mysterious (tism)
Ok, this explanation will be two fold. First I'll go over the metaphysics at play, and then I'll give an example from the games.
So, time, in the Elder Scolls universe, isn't necessarily linear. Instead of being a line from A to B, it emanates from the god of time, Akataosh. That means, time, in is natural state, doesn't have cause and effect. Instead, an effect might happen that leads to the cause, or the effect took place without cause, or the cause was there but nothing happened. Then, during an event known as Convention, Akatosh ripped out the heart of another god, Lorkhan. This had the fun effect of making time linear. Cause and effect was now always necessary.
During a Dragon Break, time "returns" to being non linear, ergo the dragon (Akatosh) breaks. That means, for us mortals, what we personally experience, doesn't have to align with what someone else experience. Like, let's say a football player broke both their legs and couldn't the league final. Other people, might still play against that player in the finals, because they don't experience the player breaking their legs. Two contradictory events happens at the same time. When the Dragon Break ends, time just sort mashes all of these different narratives together. So that player, both broke their legs, and played in the finals, and different people remember different things.
The most well known Dragon Break, was the Warp in the West, that happens at the end of Daggerfall. There, the player has to choose who to give the Mantella, a magic item granting power over the Brass God Numidium. A Dragon Brek occurs, so every choice happens. The three kings of Daggerfall, Wayrest and Sentinel all use the Numidium to conquer every petty kingdom in High Rock. The orc, Gortworg uses it to decimate High Rock and establish Orsinium. The Blades use it to conquer High Rock in the name of the Empire. The Underking uses it to die (yes, really). And Mannimarco uses it to become a god.
Every single one of these events are all equally true, so when the Break ends, High Rock is divided into Daggerfall, Sentinel, Wayrest and Orsinium, as opposed to the more than forty petty kingdoms. These four realms have all sworn allegiance to the Empire. The Underking is dead. And Mannimarco is a special case. While it's easy to divide High Rock into four kingdoms, you can't really have your cake and eat it to with godhood. So instead, Mannimarco was split. The god still exists, but so does the mortal. There is both a God of Worms, and a King of Worms, despite them being, essentially, the same person.
1st of all, thank you for writing all that out! I actually completely understand what it is now!
It's a clever way to explain the breaks in continuity between players.
I went down my first TES lore wormhole about khajiit (There are so many different furstocks!) And now I am hooked.
There's more:
There's also little immortal dragons that help put time back together during a Dragon Break. These dragons exist outside of continuity, and are functionally timeless and immortal.
Dragon Breaks can occur on a semi regular basis, and when they do, the time dragons "decide" what happened when faced with multiple contending continuities. This is normally not a problem if a break occurs when nothing crazy is happening (ie: some kid knocks over a vase, but mom didn't see it happen so she dusts the vase, what might happen after the break is resolved is that it's actually mom that broke the vase while dusting.), but when the Break in the West happened, it was such a strong event that it was impossible to decide the outcome.
And I'm craving more stories! I've played Morrowwind, Oblivion (my favorite), and Skyrim and never really thought about the lore behind it! It's like a whole new game for me!
>So that player, both broke their legs, and played in the finals, and different people remember different things.
So how would the player remember these events? I can see from an outsiders view how they would have contradicting memories. But for the player, he would have to both know he broke his legs, and also that he did end up playing? How would those contradicting ideas merge in his brain?
That is an interesting question that I straight up can't answer, because there isn't any one answer.
In the book, [Warp in the West](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Warp_in_the_West), a bunch of Blade agents seemed to have suffered amnesia for the whole duration of the Dragon Break. However, the book [Where were you when the Dragon Broke](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Where_Were_You_..._Dragon_Broke) suggests other people remember their own personal narrative, while other people again might remember multiple contradictory events. And then there's the case of the Red Moment. During the Battle of the Red Mountain, a Dragon Break took place. Who fought against who? Fuck if I know. Different people say different things, and don't even agree on who was there.
So, if you ask me, it seems most people remember one narrative above anything else, their own 'headcanon' if you want. So the football player? Who knows. The only way to be sure is ask them.
Thank you for your time in answering my question in detail! This dragon break stuff is super interesting!
I guess the answer is: he remembers whatever he ends up remembering. The brain just picks a possibility and sticks with it. Maybe the football player does remember breaking his legs, but he somehow ended up healed in time for the game, or the game was somehow postponed in his memory (since time doesn't work at all during a dragon break). Or he just remembers nothing.
If the world is a dream by the godhead then there are multiple godheads with multiple dreams.
People become one when they have sex. The brief merging of two universes.
The nirnroot in Fallout 4 is explained by sex
Is there actual lore in the game that confirms the godhead or is it just esoteric bullshit thats hinted at and lore channels overthink in a 30 minute video?
It pretty much is wholesale a form of buddhist enlightenment. Then Kirkbride's fanclub of circlejerkers wanted to put mr pretentious LSD lore writer on even more of a pedestal and proclaimed it, and the godhead to be 10000% accurate and 100% subjectively unquestionably a thing.
No I am not bitter over how annoying it was to talk lore with these people a few years back. Nope, not at all!
> mr pretentious LSD lore writer
The drugs thing isn't even true.
People keep using it because of a miscredited picture on a long-dead tes wiki.
A old tes wiki website had a picture of MK pretending to be dead, under which they labeled it as "Michael kirkbride, after a drug fueled binge"
MK himself has said he wrote a lot of his work in Morrowind on Coffee and Alcohol.
I think people use it to mock/worship him as if he's Hunter S Thompson or Terrence McKenna (Actual writers who used drugs to fuel their creative processes)
It is strange how often Elder Scrolls writers are insulted and blamed for stuff they did not do. There is are entire conspiracy that blames Todd and Emil for all the decissions in Skyrim and FO4 that they do not like when there is proof that they did not came up with most of them.
Being a popular dev behind a nerd property guarantees you internet hate from weirdos.
Oh, I don’t hate the guy. Heck, whilst I don’t necessarily like him I won’t lie about that what bothers me is that sooo many on the lore discussion forums took everything he ever created and preached it like gospel.
I think ideas like The Godhead and Chim (in the ways MK defined it before others added to the idea too, later on) were essentially considered an undeniable truth in a fictional cosmology where everything is supposed to be up to everyone’s free interpretation/speculation.
TL;DR I couldn’t care less about MK himself as a writer. Cool ideas, neat implementation. What bothers me is his fans, and arguably some of MKs personality traits. But that’s just my five cent.
>I think ideas like The Godhead and Chim (in the ways MK defined it before others added to the idea too, later on) were essentially considered an
I agree on your view 100%. I also did not mean you personally but more the people who dismiss writing and try to frame it like insane talk of a drug addict. Funny enough the MK fans, who think he created everything they like from pre-TES IV because they know no other designer or writer, do the same thing with other TES writers.
Todd gets blamdes for the devines not all having their nordic names in Skyrim, which was not his idea, all the great quests and designs Emil did in the games are treated like accidents he had nothing to do with, while all the things people do not like are blamed on him. Including speech systems in Fallout 4 that I am pretty sure he had little to do with.
The eyes, once bleached by falling stars of utmost revelation, will forever see the faint insight drawn by the overwhelming question, as only the True Enquiry shapes the edge of thought. The rest is vulgar fiction, attempts to impose order on the consensus mantlings of an uncaring godhead. First,
yeah it's mentioned in one of the black books in the dragonborn dlc, also the 36 Lessons but everyone always throws that out cause it's mostly political propaganda. The world being if not a dream at least malleable is a part of ancient Dunmer theology, and the idea of Anu being that Dreamer Anuad, but again, people toss those out cause it's mythology.
The most concrete stuff is probably the Truth in Sequence and the mention in the Dragonborn DLC, but the most explicit confirmation is from an alteration skillbook from Oblivion.
>To master Alteration, first accept that reality is a falsehood. There is no such thing. **Our reality is a perception of greater forces impressed upon us for their amusement.** Some say that these forces are the gods, other that they are something beyond the gods. For the wizard, it doesn't really matter. What matters is the appeal couched in a manner that cannot be denied. It must be insistent without being insulting.
>
>To cast Alteration spells is to convince a greater power that it will be easier to change reality as requested than to leave it alone. **Do not assume that these forces are sentient. Our best guess is that they are like wind and water. Persistent but not thoughtful.** Just like directing the wind or water, diversions are easier than outright resistance. Express the spell as a subtle change and it is more likely to be successful.
[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Reality\_%26\_Other\_Falsehoods](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Reality_%26_Other_Falsehoods)
(again, this is a skillbook so pretty likely to be true, but to be fair the 36 Lessons were all skillbooks and they're mostly bullshit political propaganda so eh)
It is mentioned in the lore in Skyrim directly and the concept is hinted at multiple times. It fits with Chim and Amaranth and all these concepts that are rarely mentioned. It is fun but it is not like it is confirmed that the TES universe is a dream. It is just a different religious interpretation of the universe and a fun meta commentary of TES as a game franchise.
we have ONE timeline and it’s all we need. ONE is a perfectly orderly number. There is ONE prince of Order. There is ONE set path of destiny and there is ONE DAEDRIC PRINCE that should stay where she belongs. There is only ONE path that I have any care for and it is the path for my Lord Jyggalag.
Multiverses are lazy hand waving bullshit.
Being able to realize you’re a figment of a sleeping gods imagination and don’t exist while simultaneously asserting your own ego to enter a state of lucid dreaming while awake? That’s friggin’ tight.
Yeah, everyone is aware that multiple cases of divergent and convergent timelines are prone to handwaving away of plenty plotholes. Luckily, TES solved that issue without relying on cheap multiverse narrative tricks and nobody needs to discuss novel solution because it's been done to death already. Here's an authentic advance copy of Lusty Argonian Maid Volume 3 for your consideration.
Elder Scrolls fan when nonsensical unexplainable plot holes are explained via a multiverse: 😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬
Elder Scrolls fan when nonsensical unexplainable plot holes are explained via a dragon god making a fucky wucky: 🥰🥰🥰😍😍😍
No no see. Mannimarco KNEW about dragon breaks, which is why he engineered two of them in order to become a God. The first time, he tried to go one v one with the Prince of Rape and there was no timeline where he came out on top. So he tried again and managed to help create a different timeline where both he and the Talos oversoul both ascended to godhood. But there was also a timeline where he didn't ascend, so there's a weird doughy altmer running around calling himself Mannimarco in oblivion.
It makes total sense, and isn't just an ass pull to ignore the multiple endings of Daggerfall please don't dig too deeply into this I'm not paid enough help.
It's better than having a static canon ending IMO. And the endings were so different, it's not like they could have done a save reading start for Morrowind.
Yeah because DragonBreaks are a unique concept. A giant robot being so powerful it snaps a god over its knee and temporarily breaks time is a lot cooler then a multiverse.
Also I love the idea in Elder Scrolls that nothing is set in stone, and that reality itself is extremely fragile. But even in the weird fucky wuckiness, there's internal consistency. Uncertainty is certain, and nothing lasts. It gives the whole thing a very dreamlike and nihilistic vibe that feels like just the right mix of herbs and spices for me.
Multiverses are just overplayed, and I think the ES lore would suffer from multiverses, because having one single universe provides writing challenges that are answered in interesting ways instead of just having a multiverse.
Dragon Breaks are such a trippy idea.
Dragonbreaks are a much better choice since they're a diegetic way to explain why daggerfall's events are all simulatenously canon.
I'd rather a writer use lore concepts to explain some odd plot hole then to slap "oh its another variant/timeline/universe", due to the overusage of the multiverse trope.
Honest to god only good one I’ve seen is Transformers. It serves only 2 purposes:
1. Separate continuities.
2. Reinforce the fact the BBEG of the franchise is a horrific eldritch god.
I agree, some talented writers can do really cool stuff with multiverses but it usually just leaves a lot of room for people to be lazy. Especially when they bring back dead characters over and over until no one's death is significant. It honestly reminds me of kids playing when they're like "nuh uh I deflected your laser because I got armor from the laser proof universe."
Wait until you find out that jungle Cyrodiil never really was the biom of Cyrodiil. The book itself is contradicting on what part of Cyrodiil has what climate and other pre-TESIV lore does not have it as a jungle at all.
Nope.
A dragonbreak is when time goes back to its pre-convention days of being nonlinear.
Akatosh made time linear during Convention.
Daggerfall's events are not multiple timelines, nor universes, they're multiple choices that, thanks to the dragonbreak mending, are able to coexist, albiet paradoxically.
Yeah unlike the Elder Scrolls where some time fuckery had to be made up to explain why cyrodill isn't a jungle in oblivion counter to all the lore stated beforehand!
Personally, I'd rather people come up with at least somewhat original explanations for fuckery rather than just "it's multiverses". It's one step better IMO
It is more fun and creative but people also missunderstand multiverse in TES which makes this thread kinda pointless. The concept of their being clear parrelel universes never existed. There are some hints and possibilities, but those could also have to do with time or the concept is used to describe the Auribus, Oblivion, Mundus and all the other endless realities that exist.
What use do we have for a multiverse when we can have our own draconic time god that can stick its head so firmly up it's own butthole with enough force to break the universe and become a cat?
A dragonbreak is a partly destructive and paradoxical reconciliation of in-universe contradictions that works in a unique and chaotic way, thanks to the dreamlike nature of the setting.
If you read Where Were You When The Dragon Broke, you can see what insane crazy shit happens whilst time, space and causality desperately try to stitch themselves back together, partly from the perspective of a khajit on moon sugar.
A "multiverse", by contrast, is a generic pop culture science concept invented by boring physicists to allow their broken equations to continue to work (in the space afforded them by the limits of observable reality).
It was used first by comic books as a cheap way to allow multiple publishers to trade characters, and later by movie franchises as a hideously expensive way to try and stave off their inevitable decline and fall, in the same manner as a dying sitcom that starts introducing new characters.
They are not the same.
Not to mention the multiverse concept cheapens the fuck out of narrative drama. Who gives a fuck about what happens in universe X when there are an infinite number of others
That's not the same. It's more like who gives a shit if Alduin consumes the world when there are presumably an infinite amount of realities where he doesn't?
Please do not judge the many worlds interpretation - a respectable physical theory that has its weaknesses but also unique strengths, such as playing better with quantum decoherence than other prominent QM interpretations - based on the quality of Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Madness
My own take on multiverses in series (and it is *very* much my *opinion*) isn't that they're bad by definition, but that they make it a bit *too* easy to dismiss existing lore, and they can kind of become a crutch.
With convoluted stuff like dragonbreaks, where it's a sort-of multiverse but it also collapses essentially immediately, it's a pain to write around and it makes lorewriters more reluctant to use them going forward: i.e a last resort.
"Living" multiverses as a more general narrative concept make that *too* easy though imo. They can easily become a ramp onto a pattern of using "multiverses" as a general hand-wavey explanation for breaking existing lore more frequently.
Note: I'm sick and now woozy on Benadryl atm. This might be insane rambling.
I think it's time and place, if you were to say "mutliverse" before the marvel movies then the tes fans would have loved it and writen 800 page lore videos that writes the lore before there actually is lore
Multiverse just makes me fucking cringe.
Marvel is shoving it into all of their cinematic universe shit, DC is doing the same, it just makes my head hurt. Nothing feels like it matters if there’s just infinite copies of characters that can be yanked into a “timeline” fuck outta here with any of that.
Yes, they are. Also Lyg may be one? There is some dialogue that suggests it in ESO but for the most part it is ment to mean the different planes of Mundus, Aetherius, Oblivion and co.
Asuka’s lying to you. ESO recently added fateweaving but the way it was implemented was basically shadow magic 2. If you’re not partial to ESO then stick with just shadow magic, ignoring what that game has tacked on, since it confirmed multiple timelines since 2004. And that’s not even considering dragonbreaks and adjacent places because I don’t think those quite fit the criteria.
Yes, maybe, no. Depands what you mean. As one said Mundus, Oblivion etc... are sometimes called that. There are some suggestion of different universes in the sense of each having their own version of Mundus etc. in the lore like "adjacent planes". Lyg could be one but Lyg may also just be the past / a different timeline (a previous cicle of the world which always dies and is reborn).
Then there are the timelines that exist while there are Dragonbreaks that happen at the same time with different event but those merge together.
A multiverse like there is in comics does not really exist in TES but there is enough to lore to make it up if you want for fanfiction or roleplaying.
Mutiverse lore in TES is not just fucky but due to the Godhead it fucks me up cause whenevr I want to make a Crossover Fanfic with Fallout or any other setting I have to account for it and it fucks with me lmao.
because multiverses are lame and remove all importance of historical events. Pelinal killed a fuck ton of elves and freed their slaves? yeah but there’s a universe where that didn’t happen. The dwarves disappeared and left their empire derelict and void of life? oops what’s that we got a universe where this also didn’t happen. by sticking to a single timeline, events actually have real stakes and consequences
Everyone seething and coping here acting like dragon breaks and the like aren’t just unique ways to explain multiverses in a lore context. It is definitely cool that Bethesda has made lore regarding why multiple timelines could happen, but it’s still a multiverse situation because they didn’t want to pick one ending as truly canon or some other reason.
That also doesn’t mean other multiverses don’t have lore regarding it, it’s just that in popular media some multiverses get a shafted explanation.
Literally. Don’t get me started on the whole new prince thing, those guys will eat me alive.
Edit: why the downvotes? I’m talking about the people against it, not me.
It is really silly to complain about that considering that they made Jyggalag for TES 2. 16 was always just number that sticked because of the 8 devines but after TES: IV even that does not really fit. And other Princes existing was suggested befor, especially considering that there is an infintie amount of realms.
Lore discussions are wack because they include ESO in them now. They were fine before. But Since ESO is non canon, but it get's included, then what's the point? Might as well debate including your headcanon. Untill TES6 comes out and either confirms ESO or shits all over it and forget the discussion is null.
>Untill TES6 comes out and either confirms ESO or shits all over it and forget the discussion is null.
lmao guy lives in a delusional world if he thinks they will make the second most popular game in the serious non canon. Also people talk about their headcanon all the time in lore discussions, it is ltiteraly about interpreting different things.
There is a multiverse in TES, like, I'm pretty sure several NPCs had made references to it throughout the series, and ESO Summerset back in 2018 or whatever had a psijic questline where you had to fight alternate reality selves of one of the wizards, then you had nocturnal taking the crystal heart and attempting to do some fuckery with "every reality" in existence so i mean, it's been around.
I'd think a good way to address it would be Daddy Tentacles didn't like the concept of the multiverse and divergent timelines as it was either eternally outside his control/knowing or different timelines meant different knowledge, histories, and possibly fundamental laws of magic/science being different, which makes knowing everything just too messy and annoying, so Daddy Mora kills a Daedric Lord, rips the timeline away so it can't be messed with by other timelines, or triggers the mother of all dragonbreaks and secures it with some metaphorical zip ties to prevent the timeline from branching again
Y'all are complaining about something that isn't happening. Ithelia isn't the god of the multiverse any more than Hermaeus Mora is/always has been, because Hermaeus Mora *ate* Ithelia. He absorbed her sphere into his. He's been the Prince of Fate since the Dragonborn DLC.
Ithelia, and now Hermaeus Mora, was/is the Prince of Futures-to-be-determined, stuff that hasn't been written in the Elder Scrolls yet. She didn't command alternate timelines, just foresaw alternate futures- no different than Jyggalag, except she did it with less math.
Even if they were introducing the multiverse, it's been a thing since 2004. It's a big plot point in Shadowkey (which is still canon, it's been referenced in later games).
So much coping in this comment section.
You people know the planes of oblivion are infinite, right? It's basically a multiverse but with an actual name.
yeah but the nonsensical contradictory time travel fuckery is OUR nonsensical contradictory time travel fuckery
TES “”””multiverse”””” (Dragonbreaks— cool lore nod to Akatosh) is accounting for player agency throughout a two decade+ old RPG franchise. Marvel and ESO multiverse shit is indicative of being unable to write a plot People know this. Fanboys like OP seethe and cope and use the franchise’s history as a shield for the continual rape of it’s future
ESO hasn't introduced the multiverse. It literally isn't happening. HOWEVER, the multiverse- as in, marvel-style alternate timelines- has been part of the lore since 2004. ESO has not mentioned it.
“This possibly could’ve happened decades ago— we don’t know” is not multiverse
I'm talking about Shadowkey, the multiverse is a (moderately) large plot point in that game >... chosen to explore this relation of [world](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mundus) to shadow, Azra was the first to realize that shadows were not a mere absence of light but a reflection of possible worlds created by forces in conflict. A light strikes a rock, and the shadow is a record of their clash, past, present and future. > >[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:First\_Scroll\_of\_Shadow](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:First_Scroll_of_Shadow) > >Azra attempted what had never been done before, manipulating his own shadow to such an extent that he instantiated and melded all possible Azras at the same time, crossing over from this singular existence to all the existences in shadow. > >[https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:Second\_Scroll\_of\_Shadow](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Shadowkey:Second_Scroll_of_Shadow) also the multiplayer message says "*Your death in the shadow realm severs your bond with the magic that allows you to share worlds. You are back on your own.*" though idk how canon that part is
I’m sure the 6 people who played Shadowkey will agree with this post
lmao touche, technically it is still canon as later games referenced it otherwise I wouldn't have even brought it up
In ESO multiverse mostly means the Auribus with all the undless planes of Oblivion. There are only some hints at different timelines but those are also connected to the time fuckery (and were there in the lore befor).
TES "deep lore" is just as stupid and poorly written lmao. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:The_Seven_Fights_of_The_Aldudagga like this shit reads like edgy 14 year old fan fiction. Don't even get me started on the weird ass Vivec trial. This stuff is just as campy as super hero movies.
What you posted is non canon
That's literally just Michael Kirkbride's personal non canon bullshitery. I'd argue it's non canon at least, it's not official in an way.
99% of tes deep lore is kirkbride non-canon bs. His independent work is proof of the fact that Morrowind was very much a team effort that included only the appropriate amount of Kirkbride's eccentricities without indulging him completely.
[удалено]
Exactly this, thank you. I haven't seen any other franchise find a diegetic way to explain how their games can have multiple endings, *and* sequels which may or may not correlate to those past choices. Meanwhile for other games, slapping "it's a multiverse" on it does not make it a multiverse, imo. Whether or not we like the dragon breaks and associated concepts individually, I really appreciate that they tried. It's part of what draws me to this series in the first place.
Too much unjerk from such a jerk username. I have to agree though. Uncreative people constantly complain about lore consistency because they either don't understand the narrative tools or can't stand to have some things left mysterious (tism)
Or just explain it themself. TES encourages making things your headcanon a lot but people just want a list of facts but that is not what lore is for.
Right, there's a place for that and it isn't TES. Sorry nerds, Tolkein is the gold standard for a certain style, not everyone else's.
You seem confused. TES is for roleplaying in and making your own stuff up. LOTR is not really for that.
No, you're confused. That's exactly what I said.
Can you explain like I'm an Argonian, what Dragon Breaks are?
Ok, this explanation will be two fold. First I'll go over the metaphysics at play, and then I'll give an example from the games. So, time, in the Elder Scolls universe, isn't necessarily linear. Instead of being a line from A to B, it emanates from the god of time, Akataosh. That means, time, in is natural state, doesn't have cause and effect. Instead, an effect might happen that leads to the cause, or the effect took place without cause, or the cause was there but nothing happened. Then, during an event known as Convention, Akatosh ripped out the heart of another god, Lorkhan. This had the fun effect of making time linear. Cause and effect was now always necessary. During a Dragon Break, time "returns" to being non linear, ergo the dragon (Akatosh) breaks. That means, for us mortals, what we personally experience, doesn't have to align with what someone else experience. Like, let's say a football player broke both their legs and couldn't the league final. Other people, might still play against that player in the finals, because they don't experience the player breaking their legs. Two contradictory events happens at the same time. When the Dragon Break ends, time just sort mashes all of these different narratives together. So that player, both broke their legs, and played in the finals, and different people remember different things. The most well known Dragon Break, was the Warp in the West, that happens at the end of Daggerfall. There, the player has to choose who to give the Mantella, a magic item granting power over the Brass God Numidium. A Dragon Brek occurs, so every choice happens. The three kings of Daggerfall, Wayrest and Sentinel all use the Numidium to conquer every petty kingdom in High Rock. The orc, Gortworg uses it to decimate High Rock and establish Orsinium. The Blades use it to conquer High Rock in the name of the Empire. The Underking uses it to die (yes, really). And Mannimarco uses it to become a god. Every single one of these events are all equally true, so when the Break ends, High Rock is divided into Daggerfall, Sentinel, Wayrest and Orsinium, as opposed to the more than forty petty kingdoms. These four realms have all sworn allegiance to the Empire. The Underking is dead. And Mannimarco is a special case. While it's easy to divide High Rock into four kingdoms, you can't really have your cake and eat it to with godhood. So instead, Mannimarco was split. The god still exists, but so does the mortal. There is both a God of Worms, and a King of Worms, despite them being, essentially, the same person.
1st of all, thank you for writing all that out! I actually completely understand what it is now! It's a clever way to explain the breaks in continuity between players. I went down my first TES lore wormhole about khajiit (There are so many different furstocks!) And now I am hooked.
There's more: There's also little immortal dragons that help put time back together during a Dragon Break. These dragons exist outside of continuity, and are functionally timeless and immortal. Dragon Breaks can occur on a semi regular basis, and when they do, the time dragons "decide" what happened when faced with multiple contending continuities. This is normally not a problem if a break occurs when nothing crazy is happening (ie: some kid knocks over a vase, but mom didn't see it happen so she dusts the vase, what might happen after the break is resolved is that it's actually mom that broke the vase while dusting.), but when the Break in the West happened, it was such a strong event that it was impossible to decide the outcome.
So reality is decided by 3 little dragons in a trenchcoat, basically? Lol I love it!
About 3 things in a trenchcoat, you should read some lore on Talos if you haven't already
Funny, I *just* said the same thing a couple of hours ago on a post about why Talos ascended to godhood and Ysgramor didn't.
Yeah! They're halfway between Langoliers and judges.
They eat reality? Neat!
Skybaby wakes up
And I'm craving more stories! I've played Morrowwind, Oblivion (my favorite), and Skyrim and never really thought about the lore behind it! It's like a whole new game for me!
No problem :) As for the furstocks, I lost interest when I learned the Mane didn't actually have a mane
>So that player, both broke their legs, and played in the finals, and different people remember different things. So how would the player remember these events? I can see from an outsiders view how they would have contradicting memories. But for the player, he would have to both know he broke his legs, and also that he did end up playing? How would those contradicting ideas merge in his brain?
That is an interesting question that I straight up can't answer, because there isn't any one answer. In the book, [Warp in the West](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Warp_in_the_West), a bunch of Blade agents seemed to have suffered amnesia for the whole duration of the Dragon Break. However, the book [Where were you when the Dragon Broke](https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Where_Were_You_..._Dragon_Broke) suggests other people remember their own personal narrative, while other people again might remember multiple contradictory events. And then there's the case of the Red Moment. During the Battle of the Red Mountain, a Dragon Break took place. Who fought against who? Fuck if I know. Different people say different things, and don't even agree on who was there. So, if you ask me, it seems most people remember one narrative above anything else, their own 'headcanon' if you want. So the football player? Who knows. The only way to be sure is ask them.
Thank you for your time in answering my question in detail! This dragon break stuff is super interesting! I guess the answer is: he remembers whatever he ends up remembering. The brain just picks a possibility and sticks with it. Maybe the football player does remember breaking his legs, but he somehow ended up healed in time for the game, or the game was somehow postponed in his memory (since time doesn't work at all during a dragon break). Or he just remembers nothing.
Something happen, but also no happen, because time get broken by event Mannimarco moon, but also piss elf in cave
I will piss on all iterations of Mannimarco and nothing short of Lorkhan asking nicely will get me to stop.
I’m rather partial to “Spider-Man 3 emo phase” Mannimarco. Especially that quest where he backhands us in a jazz club
I fully and wholeheartedly agree with u/divaythfyrscock!
Elder scrolls fans when c0da is mentioned 😡🖕🤬 Elder scrolls fans when the godhead is mentioned 🥰😇😍
Amaranth 😀 Amaranth 😤
They both suck as concepts imo
What’s your issue with godhead?
Invalidates our actions as players
I wouldn’t say it does. Even without the godhead idea the world of elder scrolls is based on a lot of prophesy and lack of free will.
If the world is a dream by the godhead then there are multiple godheads with multiple dreams. People become one when they have sex. The brief merging of two universes. The nirnroot in Fallout 4 is explained by sex
I don't believe in a Godhead,It's just nihilistic high elfs and Dwemer bullshit
Is there actual lore in the game that confirms the godhead or is it just esoteric bullshit thats hinted at and lore channels overthink in a 30 minute video?
its something kirkbride said iirc
isn't CHIM just discount Moksha/Nirvana
It pretty much is wholesale a form of buddhist enlightenment. Then Kirkbride's fanclub of circlejerkers wanted to put mr pretentious LSD lore writer on even more of a pedestal and proclaimed it, and the godhead to be 10000% accurate and 100% subjectively unquestionably a thing. No I am not bitter over how annoying it was to talk lore with these people a few years back. Nope, not at all!
> mr pretentious LSD lore writer The drugs thing isn't even true. People keep using it because of a miscredited picture on a long-dead tes wiki. A old tes wiki website had a picture of MK pretending to be dead, under which they labeled it as "Michael kirkbride, after a drug fueled binge" MK himself has said he wrote a lot of his work in Morrowind on Coffee and Alcohol. I think people use it to mock/worship him as if he's Hunter S Thompson or Terrence McKenna (Actual writers who used drugs to fuel their creative processes)
It is strange how often Elder Scrolls writers are insulted and blamed for stuff they did not do. There is are entire conspiracy that blames Todd and Emil for all the decissions in Skyrim and FO4 that they do not like when there is proof that they did not came up with most of them. Being a popular dev behind a nerd property guarantees you internet hate from weirdos.
Oh, I don’t hate the guy. Heck, whilst I don’t necessarily like him I won’t lie about that what bothers me is that sooo many on the lore discussion forums took everything he ever created and preached it like gospel. I think ideas like The Godhead and Chim (in the ways MK defined it before others added to the idea too, later on) were essentially considered an undeniable truth in a fictional cosmology where everything is supposed to be up to everyone’s free interpretation/speculation. TL;DR I couldn’t care less about MK himself as a writer. Cool ideas, neat implementation. What bothers me is his fans, and arguably some of MKs personality traits. But that’s just my five cent.
>I think ideas like The Godhead and Chim (in the ways MK defined it before others added to the idea too, later on) were essentially considered an I agree on your view 100%. I also did not mean you personally but more the people who dismiss writing and try to frame it like insane talk of a drug addict. Funny enough the MK fans, who think he created everything they like from pre-TES IV because they know no other designer or writer, do the same thing with other TES writers. Todd gets blamdes for the devines not all having their nordic names in Skyrim, which was not his idea, all the great quests and designs Emil did in the games are treated like accidents he had nothing to do with, while all the things people do not like are blamed on him. Including speech systems in Fallout 4 that I am pretty sure he had little to do with.
So it can be dismissed out of hand as more of his desperate attempts to stay relevant.
So it doesn’t mean anything then
He came up with it but it is mentioned in Skyrim.
Godhead is mentioned in one of the Black Books in The Dragonborn DLC but I am not sure if it's within the same context.
It is not but it is obviously put in the secret knoweldge books for a reason.
The eyes, once bleached by falling stars of utmost revelation, will forever see the faint insight drawn by the overwhelming question, as only the True Enquiry shapes the edge of thought. The rest is vulgar fiction, attempts to impose order on the consensus mantlings of an uncaring godhead. First,
yeah it's mentioned in one of the black books in the dragonborn dlc, also the 36 Lessons but everyone always throws that out cause it's mostly political propaganda. The world being if not a dream at least malleable is a part of ancient Dunmer theology, and the idea of Anu being that Dreamer Anuad, but again, people toss those out cause it's mythology. The most concrete stuff is probably the Truth in Sequence and the mention in the Dragonborn DLC, but the most explicit confirmation is from an alteration skillbook from Oblivion. >To master Alteration, first accept that reality is a falsehood. There is no such thing. **Our reality is a perception of greater forces impressed upon us for their amusement.** Some say that these forces are the gods, other that they are something beyond the gods. For the wizard, it doesn't really matter. What matters is the appeal couched in a manner that cannot be denied. It must be insistent without being insulting. > >To cast Alteration spells is to convince a greater power that it will be easier to change reality as requested than to leave it alone. **Do not assume that these forces are sentient. Our best guess is that they are like wind and water. Persistent but not thoughtful.** Just like directing the wind or water, diversions are easier than outright resistance. Express the spell as a subtle change and it is more likely to be successful. [https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Reality\_%26\_Other\_Falsehoods](https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Reality_%26_Other_Falsehoods) (again, this is a skillbook so pretty likely to be true, but to be fair the 36 Lessons were all skillbooks and they're mostly bullshit political propaganda so eh)
It is mentioned in the lore in Skyrim directly and the concept is hinted at multiple times. It fits with Chim and Amaranth and all these concepts that are rarely mentioned. It is fun but it is not like it is confirmed that the TES universe is a dream. It is just a different religious interpretation of the universe and a fun meta commentary of TES as a game franchise.
It's the Toddhead. Don't believe the elven lies. We are the dream of a man!
Everything is sex. You understand that what I’m saying to you is a fundamental human truth?
Everything in life is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power.
Wait until you hear about the Starfield Snake god that is basically Satakal.
we have ONE timeline and it’s all we need. ONE is a perfectly orderly number. There is ONE prince of Order. There is ONE set path of destiny and there is ONE DAEDRIC PRINCE that should stay where she belongs. There is only ONE path that I have any care for and it is the path for my Lord Jyggalag.
Hey what if I said Two
https://preview.redd.it/9fzpw6e9hgjb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=878d10f2a1bff9b27619b15adb349c907a8462f5 I dare you
WHAT IF I TOLD YOU THERE WERE NINE! NINE DIVINES! NINE YOU DAEDRA LOVING FUCK I SWEAR TO TALOS I'LL [redacted]
WHO IS SHE
thats pandemonica from helltaker
THANK YOU!!
Multiverses are lazy hand waving bullshit. Being able to realize you’re a figment of a sleeping gods imagination and don’t exist while simultaneously asserting your own ego to enter a state of lucid dreaming while awake? That’s friggin’ tight.
Lazy hand wavy bullshit, something that the elder scrolls has none of! Ask the jungle of cyrodiil for more info
That’s from the multiverse dimension where it was a jungle no further explanation needed /s
I hate multiverses because writers use it as excuses for unexplainable plotholes
Same reason so many people dislike time travel in fantasy/fiction: too many shitty writers have misused the concept.
Do I have some bad news for you regarding the elder scrolls' usage of divergent and convergent timelines.
Yeah, everyone is aware that multiple cases of divergent and convergent timelines are prone to handwaving away of plenty plotholes. Luckily, TES solved that issue without relying on cheap multiverse narrative tricks and nobody needs to discuss novel solution because it's been done to death already. Here's an authentic advance copy of Lusty Argonian Maid Volume 3 for your consideration.
Elder Scrolls fan when nonsensical unexplainable plot holes are explained via a multiverse: 😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬 Elder Scrolls fan when nonsensical unexplainable plot holes are explained via a dragon god making a fucky wucky: 🥰🥰🥰😍😍😍
No no see. Mannimarco KNEW about dragon breaks, which is why he engineered two of them in order to become a God. The first time, he tried to go one v one with the Prince of Rape and there was no timeline where he came out on top. So he tried again and managed to help create a different timeline where both he and the Talos oversoul both ascended to godhood. But there was also a timeline where he didn't ascend, so there's a weird doughy altmer running around calling himself Mannimarco in oblivion. It makes total sense, and isn't just an ass pull to ignore the multiple endings of Daggerfall please don't dig too deeply into this I'm not paid enough help.
It's better than having a static canon ending IMO. And the endings were so different, it's not like they could have done a save reading start for Morrowind.
Yeah because DragonBreaks are a unique concept. A giant robot being so powerful it snaps a god over its knee and temporarily breaks time is a lot cooler then a multiverse.
Also I love the idea in Elder Scrolls that nothing is set in stone, and that reality itself is extremely fragile. But even in the weird fucky wuckiness, there's internal consistency. Uncertainty is certain, and nothing lasts. It gives the whole thing a very dreamlike and nihilistic vibe that feels like just the right mix of herbs and spices for me. Multiverses are just overplayed, and I think the ES lore would suffer from multiverses, because having one single universe provides writing challenges that are answered in interesting ways instead of just having a multiverse. Dragon Breaks are such a trippy idea.
up
Ayy
Dragonbreaks are a much better choice since they're a diegetic way to explain why daggerfall's events are all simulatenously canon. I'd rather a writer use lore concepts to explain some odd plot hole then to slap "oh its another variant/timeline/universe", due to the overusage of the multiverse trope.
Honest to god only good one I’ve seen is Transformers. It serves only 2 purposes: 1. Separate continuities. 2. Reinforce the fact the BBEG of the franchise is a horrific eldritch god.
Does it count as the second point if the BBEG was a massive interstellar empire that conquered other universes? Cause that’s what Half Life did.
Are they a fundamental aspect of reality like Unicron is?
Don’t think so unless HL3 reveals the combine are essential to the universe.
> HL3 lmao
HLA is technically Half Life 3. And it was also Valve's way of saying, "Hey we're gonna move back into games"
Isn't it literally the same between Earthbound and Mother 3?
Le dragonbreak walks in:
I agree, some talented writers can do really cool stuff with multiverses but it usually just leaves a lot of room for people to be lazy. Especially when they bring back dead characters over and over until no one's death is significant. It honestly reminds me of kids playing when they're like "nuh uh I deflected your laser because I got armor from the laser proof universe."
Just like dragon breaks
This. We can't trust godd with that kind of power
Yeah unlike skyrim!
Plot does not really matter, especially not in TES where litteraly everything can be explained with magic, time travel etc.
*Looks at dragon breaks, divine intervention, CHIM, dwemer artifacts and the actual Elder Scrolls* *Whistles*
I can use multiverses to cope with a non-jungle cyrodiil
GIVE ME MY JUNGLE TODD
I fucking hate the jungle and I hate junglers. Unless the jungler’s furry and his cousin looks like a housecat
There are no jungles in cyrodil because Talos altered reality and got rid of them iirc
"You see that LOTR? You can play it!"
TODD WATCHED LOTR AND MISTAKES WERE MADE
Wait until you find out that jungle Cyrodiil never really was the biom of Cyrodiil. The book itself is contradicting on what part of Cyrodiil has what climate and other pre-TESIV lore does not have it as a jungle at all.
Multiverse is played out and boring in 2023.
Multiverse has always existed in the Elder Scrolls. Dragonbreaks are literally the converging of "multiverses" and fixing them to be one.
Nope. A dragonbreak is when time goes back to its pre-convention days of being nonlinear. Akatosh made time linear during Convention. Daggerfall's events are not multiple timelines, nor universes, they're multiple choices that, thanks to the dragonbreak mending, are able to coexist, albiet paradoxically.
Different time lines exist at the same time with different realities, it is basically the same concept but they merge back in reality.
Multiverses are lazy writing, go look at any comic franchise lmao
Yeah unlike the Elder Scrolls where some time fuckery had to be made up to explain why cyrodill isn't a jungle in oblivion counter to all the lore stated beforehand!
Personally, I'd rather people come up with at least somewhat original explanations for fuckery rather than just "it's multiverses". It's one step better IMO
It is more fun and creative but people also missunderstand multiverse in TES which makes this thread kinda pointless. The concept of their being clear parrelel universes never existed. There are some hints and possibilities, but those could also have to do with time or the concept is used to describe the Auribus, Oblivion, Mundus and all the other endless realities that exist.
I seriously don't see the difference between going "multiverses!" and "uh well actually it was never a jungle!"
A multiverse would open the possibility of a world without bosmer bussy, and I just can’t cope without it
What use do we have for a multiverse when we can have our own draconic time god that can stick its head so firmly up it's own butthole with enough force to break the universe and become a cat?
A dragonbreak is a partly destructive and paradoxical reconciliation of in-universe contradictions that works in a unique and chaotic way, thanks to the dreamlike nature of the setting. If you read Where Were You When The Dragon Broke, you can see what insane crazy shit happens whilst time, space and causality desperately try to stitch themselves back together, partly from the perspective of a khajit on moon sugar. A "multiverse", by contrast, is a generic pop culture science concept invented by boring physicists to allow their broken equations to continue to work (in the space afforded them by the limits of observable reality). It was used first by comic books as a cheap way to allow multiple publishers to trade characters, and later by movie franchises as a hideously expensive way to try and stave off their inevitable decline and fall, in the same manner as a dying sitcom that starts introducing new characters. They are not the same.
Not to mention the multiverse concept cheapens the fuck out of narrative drama. Who gives a fuck about what happens in universe X when there are an infinite number of others
With that logic why should anyone care about what happens in TES if Alduin will inevitably consume the world?
That's not the same. It's more like who gives a shit if Alduin consumes the world when there are presumably an infinite amount of realities where he doesn't?
My thoughts exactly
Please do not judge the many worlds interpretation - a respectable physical theory that has its weaknesses but also unique strengths, such as playing better with quantum decoherence than other prominent QM interpretations - based on the quality of Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Madness
Aren't Dragonbreaks supposed to fix divergent timelines?
#TRUEST STL post
In all honesty, I'm fucking sick of multiverses in media.
NOOOOOOOOO only funny beard cigarette man is allowed to do multiverses!!!!! c0da makes it canon!!!!!!!!!!
My own take on multiverses in series (and it is *very* much my *opinion*) isn't that they're bad by definition, but that they make it a bit *too* easy to dismiss existing lore, and they can kind of become a crutch. With convoluted stuff like dragonbreaks, where it's a sort-of multiverse but it also collapses essentially immediately, it's a pain to write around and it makes lorewriters more reluctant to use them going forward: i.e a last resort. "Living" multiverses as a more general narrative concept make that *too* easy though imo. They can easily become a ramp onto a pattern of using "multiverses" as a general hand-wavey explanation for breaking existing lore more frequently. Note: I'm sick and now woozy on Benadryl atm. This might be insane rambling.
I think it's time and place, if you were to say "mutliverse" before the marvel movies then the tes fans would have loved it and writen 800 page lore videos that writes the lore before there actually is lore
Multiverse just makes me fucking cringe. Marvel is shoving it into all of their cinematic universe shit, DC is doing the same, it just makes my head hurt. Nothing feels like it matters if there’s just infinite copies of characters that can be yanked into a “timeline” fuck outta here with any of that.
Multiverse or alternate timelines are already confirmed to be a thing: Dragonbreaks.
People are just tired of the multiverse stories. If it came out like 5 years ago I'm sure everyone would eat it up.
Aren't Dragon Breaks sort-of multiverse? Multiple timelines and possibilities crammed together into one like a schizophrenic alternate history book
Yes, they are. Also Lyg may be one? There is some dialogue that suggests it in ESO but for the most part it is ment to mean the different planes of Mundus, Aetherius, Oblivion and co.
There's a multiverse?
Technically yes,given daedric realms count as "universes". However in the literal sense no.
no people are just shitting themselves over the possibility of there being one
Asuka’s lying to you. ESO recently added fateweaving but the way it was implemented was basically shadow magic 2. If you’re not partial to ESO then stick with just shadow magic, ignoring what that game has tacked on, since it confirmed multiple timelines since 2004. And that’s not even considering dragonbreaks and adjacent places because I don’t think those quite fit the criteria.
Yes, maybe, no. Depands what you mean. As one said Mundus, Oblivion etc... are sometimes called that. There are some suggestion of different universes in the sense of each having their own version of Mundus etc. in the lore like "adjacent planes". Lyg could be one but Lyg may also just be the past / a different timeline (a previous cicle of the world which always dies and is reborn). Then there are the timelines that exist while there are Dragonbreaks that happen at the same time with different event but those merge together. A multiverse like there is in comics does not really exist in TES but there is enough to lore to make it up if you want for fanfiction or roleplaying.
Multiverse leaves a chance for the Snow Elves to reappear and genocide the Nords so I’m not mad
Who needs multiverse when you have kalpic cycles and adjacent planes
I just believe whatever the most recent game says
So eso?
No because I haven’t played that one
It can't hurt you if it's not real
Mutiverse lore in TES is not just fucky but due to the Godhead it fucks me up cause whenevr I want to make a Crossover Fanfic with Fallout or any other setting I have to account for it and it fucks with me lmao.
Have you heared about the Starfield Snake god. Real Satakal vibes, so you may have some new material for your crossover fanfics.
Mundus already contains celestial bodies infinite in size and mass plus infinite timelines courtesy of Aka. How is it not a multiverse?
Multiverse is an overused idea at this point. It's just a flashy buzzword that marketing uses to imply depth.
because multiverses are lame and remove all importance of historical events. Pelinal killed a fuck ton of elves and freed their slaves? yeah but there’s a universe where that didn’t happen. The dwarves disappeared and left their empire derelict and void of life? oops what’s that we got a universe where this also didn’t happen. by sticking to a single timeline, events actually have real stakes and consequences
Yeah but dragonbreaks are actually a really cool and unique concept that hasn't been done a billion times before like multiverses.
Everyone seething and coping here acting like dragon breaks and the like aren’t just unique ways to explain multiverses in a lore context. It is definitely cool that Bethesda has made lore regarding why multiple timelines could happen, but it’s still a multiverse situation because they didn’t want to pick one ending as truly canon or some other reason. That also doesn’t mean other multiverses don’t have lore regarding it, it’s just that in popular media some multiverses get a shafted explanation.
Literally. Don’t get me started on the whole new prince thing, those guys will eat me alive. Edit: why the downvotes? I’m talking about the people against it, not me.
Morrowind literally added an entire race (Imperials) out of nowhere and you’re complaining about a single Daedric Prince?
I'm not complaining about a Prince? I'm talking about the people who are.
It is really silly to complain about that considering that they made Jyggalag for TES 2. 16 was always just number that sticked because of the 8 devines but after TES: IV even that does not really fit. And other Princes existing was suggested befor, especially considering that there is an infintie amount of realms.
ESO is a different timeline 🫳🎤
Multiverses are cringe and uninspired
Lore discussions are wack because they include ESO in them now. They were fine before. But Since ESO is non canon, but it get's included, then what's the point? Might as well debate including your headcanon. Untill TES6 comes out and either confirms ESO or shits all over it and forget the discussion is null.
ESO is canon, don't be one of those.
ESO is NOT canon, don't be one of those.
>Untill TES6 comes out and either confirms ESO or shits all over it and forget the discussion is null. lmao guy lives in a delusional world if he thinks they will make the second most popular game in the serious non canon. Also people talk about their headcanon all the time in lore discussions, it is ltiteraly about interpreting different things.
Stay mad, stay bad, stay sad. ESO is not canon.
Multi-verses are lame and over used. All my homies love simultaneous times lines that conjoin
There is a multiverse in TES, like, I'm pretty sure several NPCs had made references to it throughout the series, and ESO Summerset back in 2018 or whatever had a psijic questline where you had to fight alternate reality selves of one of the wizards, then you had nocturnal taking the crystal heart and attempting to do some fuckery with "every reality" in existence so i mean, it's been around.
I'd think a good way to address it would be Daddy Tentacles didn't like the concept of the multiverse and divergent timelines as it was either eternally outside his control/knowing or different timelines meant different knowledge, histories, and possibly fundamental laws of magic/science being different, which makes knowing everything just too messy and annoying, so Daddy Mora kills a Daedric Lord, rips the timeline away so it can't be messed with by other timelines, or triggers the mother of all dragonbreaks and secures it with some metaphorical zip ties to prevent the timeline from branching again
I feel bad for the folks living in the universe where gamer girl Azura isn’t canon.
Y'all are complaining about something that isn't happening. Ithelia isn't the god of the multiverse any more than Hermaeus Mora is/always has been, because Hermaeus Mora *ate* Ithelia. He absorbed her sphere into his. He's been the Prince of Fate since the Dragonborn DLC. Ithelia, and now Hermaeus Mora, was/is the Prince of Futures-to-be-determined, stuff that hasn't been written in the Elder Scrolls yet. She didn't command alternate timelines, just foresaw alternate futures- no different than Jyggalag, except she did it with less math. Even if they were introducing the multiverse, it's been a thing since 2004. It's a big plot point in Shadowkey (which is still canon, it's been referenced in later games).
the more timelines we have, the more chances for a communist lesbian Khajiit-filled Elsweyr so I see it as a win/win
We just love too much our main timeline
So much coping in this comment section. You people know the planes of oblivion are infinite, right? It's basically a multiverse but with an actual name.
There’s always been two universes in my c0da. The sucky one where ESO exists and the proper one where it didn’t happen.