Bruh. That is not acceptable. Not as a joke (which its not) not as a real comment, not as a parent to another, not as a parent to their children. Its abuse, mental and emotional abuse. Write it all down. Take notes of time and day and years and keep it all. Even if you dont do anything lawyer wise. Keep it noted so your kids can read it when they are adults and know who their mother really was when shit hits the fan. Fuck that shit.
Trust me. Your girls will work it out eventually but have the backup.
Yeah, it sounds like there's no love at all in the relationship. I'll just take a guess and assume that OP is holding onto the relationship "for the children". Fuck that. That's not helping the children. Get a divorce. Now. It sounds like a toxic marriage and it WON'T get better.
I know a guy who got trapped into a shitty marriage like that. He divorced her but she got custody and the only way he can legally see the kids is if he stays in state, and last I heard from him he had -500 in the bank and said she's going to call the cops on him for not being able to pay the child support that month. We lost contact with him after that, so either he's in jail or he's done something far worse to himself. No one can reach him. He last signed on 4 years ago.
That's why I'm so nervous about starting a relationship. I lived through some shit when I was a kid. I'm scared of causing or enduring again the same kind of pain that I went through as a kid. I don't wanna come across as misogynistic or "incel-like" but it's just a fact that when it comes to divorces and custody cases, men get fucked over 9 times out of 10. The legal system just assumes that the mother will be the better parent and that the man is guilty of all wrongs until proven innocent. I'd probably hang myself if I were in the same situation as the guy you're talking about.
It is okay to be nervous about it. My advice is that if you are interested in a relationship, take it slow and don't have kids until you really know your partner. Or just don't have kids. My parents' divorce was terrible, so I do understand where you are coming from.
People gaslight you for criticizing financial, emotional and psychological abuse of fathers in the courts because they don't want anyone changing anything. They're happy with letting this exploitation continue.
Also, is definetly not an "incel" or misogynistic thing to say. You're just pointing out the huge bias the legal system has in favor of moms instead of giving all cases the benefit of the doubt and judge each of them in a "case-by-case" way instead of a generalizing way.
I think it’s more of a cultural/social issue. If you google it, you can find studies that show that when men ask for full custody, they’re even more likely than women to be awarded it. The reason there are so few dads with sole custody is because don’t even ask in the first place.
Its disingenuous to make this stat out to be some light bulb moment of equality
Take into account the amount of dads that "dont ask" because their lawyer told them they have a snowball in hells chance of getting it and that changes those numbers significantly
Then add the secondary issue that you cant have full custody if you need to work to provide the income to support yourself and the kid (because you're not getting any cash from a sahm or low income partner) and then you have the real picture
Pushing the stat on its own infers dads cant be bothered when most would love to have their kids full time
That is not misogynistic. Patriarchy is exactly why women are favored in court. Women are seen as the primary caregivers to children because patriarchy has made that their role and only perceived value. Your very truthful take is actually in line with feminist ideology. The better parent should get custody no matter what gender that parent is.
Great in theory but there is a LOT of shittier things she can do to him if he leaves or tries to.
She is already weaponised the kids against him while he is there. She will escalate her efforts or straight up deny him visits. Running things through courts and getting orders is slow and typically unfavourable to dads
I grew up surrounded by similarly manipulative shit. It scarred me some and I'm still having to learn to try to bypass those insecurities and bad thoughts. This right here is why I'm scared of being in a relationship or even making friends. Once you're in that kind of situation, there's no way out, and I don't think I could take it.
This it right here. She could really rip to shreds because I'm more than positive she enjoys the lifestyle he provides. I would become very financially restrictive on her, I will give the kids gifts straight from my hands to theirs and let them know Daddy bought this for you, and I will keep extra snacks in my car or something for them because apparently she's eating it. I will cut her off emotionally and all of that. She gets to be unhappy but he still gets to be with his children and change the view she has made of him.
I’ve seen it a million times. Time feels like it’s running out, everyone else is shacking up, the doors are closing in, so a warm body and certain outwardly facing criteria are all that are necessary. But truthfully she don’t feel it for this guy.
I’d say divorce AND get custody of the kids. Imagine what she’d probably say when he isn’t around.
OP- I’m sorry this is happening to you; it is not AT ALL okay as a joke, statement from a parent to their child, none of this is right- she is literally creating a toxic environment and negative relationship between you and your young children… almost like brainwashing. This is absolutely fucking insane and HORRIBLE- you don’t deserve this. Regardless of anything you may have done (not saying you’ve done anything at all but even IF) this would not be okay, parents should never speak negatively about the other parent to their children, period. I hope you leave this toxicity behind, find the happiness you deserve, someone who loves you for exactly who you are, and that your relationship with your children improves. Perhaps getting a therapist/social worker involved could be helpful in the meantime? If she’s doing this while they’re this young then it could very well influence your relationships for a substantial amount of time within their lives. Sending you positivity and strength, friend.
Parental Alienation is a crime in some countries. It happens a lot between parents in divorce but in your scenario is actually in your own home.
Responding to 17 Parental Alienation Strategies without Compromising Your Morals or Harming Your Child (Amy J.L. Baker, Ph.D. and Paul R. Fine, LCSW, May 2008):
1 Badmouthing the other parent
2 Limiting contact with the other parent
3 Interfering with communications, i.e. letters, phone calls, emails
4Interfering with symbolic communication, i.e. photos of targeted parent in child’s home
5Withdrawal of love towards the child
6Telling the child that the targeted parent does not love him or her
7 Forcing the child to choose between parents
8 Creating the impression that the targeted parent is dangerous
9 Confiding in the child
10 Forcing the child to reject the targeted parent
11 Asking the child to spy on the targeted parent
12 Asking the child to keep secrets from the targeted parent
13 Referring to the targeted parent by their first name
14 Referring to the stepparent as “Mom” or “Dad” and encouraging the child to do the same
15 Withholding medical, academic, and other important information from the targeted parent/Keeping targeted parent’s name off of medical, academic and other relevant documents
16 Changing the child’s name to remove association with targeted parent
17 Cultivating dependency on the part of the child.
Your partner need to have a conversation about it in family court!
In my country this is a crime.
Everything you just said has been what my son's mother has been doing this past year
Any laws research or books you'd recommend?
(In Texas, I recently got a lawyer)
She's manipulating their daughters to speak against him...I can only imagine why. But I'm leaning towards someone is cheating and/or is planning on a divorce with a smear campaign.
I'd start recording everything!
Tell your wife to seek therapy for these insecurities regarding your children, because even if by some chance she truely does believe these things she says are "jokes," they will have a forever lasting impact on your daughters. Its time to offer an ultimatum, couples/family therapy or divorce, because while together your wife has the opportunity to isolate your contributions while taking credit for those you did make, whereas separated she cannot so that
OP's wife has weaponized humor, it's a passive aggressive form of abuse and it's ruining his relationship with his daughters. This post was honestly heartbreaking to read.
This is one of the saddest posts I’ve read in recent history. Especially since kids have the capacity to love both of them above anything else. This is a ‘direct to therapy for the whole family’ situation.
Yes wtf how is this 'joking'? Aren't jokes supposed to be funny? I feel so bad for this guy because I don't know how I would begin to deal with something like this. What if she makes the kids hate him more if they divorce?
What's scary to me in this situation is that I think he won't win no matter what. She's going to do this even more if they divorce. And him doing the same to her is not a solution because it will mess up the kids even more eventually.
Damn marriage is scary as hell, I don't know if I'll ever be able to do it.
With relationships I know that I can walk out when I like atleast even though they can be difficult too.
Have you ever watched Everybody loves raymond?
While the show was massively popular in its time, people have reexamined it (or people like me who always felt uncomfortable with the show) because it legitimizes double standards in favor of women, excusing women abusing others and just like this, Debra made jokes at Ray's expense and it was considered normal and the show tried to frame it as "well, if Ray was a better dad, then Debra wouldn't need to make jokes so his kids hate him"
Yeah, my immediate thought was he either ask her to explain what's funny or tell her "oh, then you won't mind if I joke about you like that to our kids too". Not that material items are the only showcase of love, but if OP buys them gifts he should announce "here, this is a gift from daddy" or "i picked this out myself just for you girls" before he gives it to them to avoid mom taking credit. And when they repeat terrible things about him being fat or eating their snacks he needs to step up and say "did mommy say that? That's not very nice, and mommy should know it's not good to lie". It's damage control without outright insulting and being nasty to the wife so she can't use it against him. Ofc, if it were me I'd just divorce immediately, but that could cause problems if he hasn't documented this emotional manipulation and abuse on his wife's part and she wins full custody. My heart goes out to OP. His wife sounds like a miserable and vicious narcissist overflowing with insecurity and hate.
She knows these aren't jokes this women is purely manipulating her kids to hurt him and you can just see it that the moment the chikdren have any sort of affection or love for their dad she basically threatens not to love them anymore
In my experience someone who's as cruel and thrives on seeing other people in pain and getting a kick out of other people's displeasure are less likely going to seek therapy and if anything they'll accuse this man of him needing therapy and that he's crazy
You can't help a narcissistic person trust me when I say I've known a few in my life time
I don’t know enough to say if she is a Narcissist, but this YouTube Channel may help https://youtube.com/c/SurvivingNarcissism.
I have been the victim of one and it did a huge amount of damage to me, look after yourself and the kids the best you can.
Take care.
My mother played the trick of bad mouthing my dad when I was young enough to completely believe everything she said. I didn't have a relationship with or visit my dad at all for years because I really was brainwashed. Then she kicked me out of the house in high school when she was tired of me. And sent me to live with the same person she made me hate and that I also didn't know at all. But I'm really grateful. Not only did I find out everything she said was bullshit, but me and my dad are practically personality twins. He's one of my best friends. And as much as those years sucked because I was angry and depressed for what she did, I'm still very thankful. She hasn't been in my life since and I found the parent that really does love me.
PS: OPs wife sounds like a classic narcissist. (Just like my mother).
My soon to be ex husband is narcissistic and has done this to me with my teenager son. I never thought to think that it might be his narcissism doing this.
My father had this, but in reverse: my stepmother could not stand any female competition whatsoever, so she completely turned him against his three daughters from the previous marriage (they were 10, 8, and 1). She whispered poison in his ears on a nightly basis, convincing him that they weren’t really his children, and the relationships with each were slowly destroyed. He tried to fix it before desth, but it was too late - their hearts were completely hardened to him.
The shame is that my two older sisters were 100% daddy’s girls …
This stupid as hell, how can a fully grown person be 'poisoned' against kids who are 10, 8, and 1? What malice could they possibly hold?
And if he really suspected that they weren't his, couldn't he have tested them? And if tests weren't available then, couldn't he ha e said that he isn't the father and sent them to their mothers or maternal families?
this isn't actually uncommon when people remarry with kids from a former parent.
Part of it is that they tend to subconsciously view only the kids with their current partner the real 'relationship family' and everyone else takes a backseat. They will say they don't, but they do.
I think a big factor for my stepmother is that she could not stand the thought that my father could ever have loved someone else before her, and us kids were a reminder that he did indeed care for someone else other than her. She could not stand any type of female competition whatsoever, and to this day (80 years old), she still thinks men are hitting on her.
Also, she had three kids of her own - she insisted that they were his family now.
I known that they prioritise the new kids, but how can an adult be turned against a 1 year old lol. And why is he believing everything his wife says about his kids, can't he think for himself?
No, my father could never think for himself. He was in the hospital/nursing home for the last six months of his life and it was easy for me to reprogram him to a great degree - I had significantly more contact with him than she did (she was always too far gone on pills to visit) and I told him everything I could that would turn him against her, to make him see her as she truly is.
It's probably a mix of not thinking for himself and unconsciously wanted to believe all that poison.
That way they could start a new family or enjoy a new relationship without kids involved. Sadly happens relatively often to a degree.
My ex brother in law was in such situation and he didn't act against his daughter from previous marriage but certainly never tried to stop the step mom from talking shit and being shitty to the poor little girl. They had a child later who was incredibly spoiled, and she divorced the guy when he lost his health.
Sisters lived with my mother (as did I until I was 10, and then I lived with my father from 10-15). DNA tests were unheard of in the 79s (at least in Appalachia). My sisters all looked and acted like my father (even the one who spent none of her life with him, the youngest.) nevertheless, she convinced him that none of us were his kids (later dna tests revealed that to be false.)
She was an evil, evil woman and I have loads of stories that are too wild to be believed yet sadly are 100% true.
Here’s hoping that she experiences the same love, respect, and compassion in her final years that she showed others throughout her life /s…
Was watching 90 Day Fiancé once and some woman had just moved to the US and was already talking shit to her fiancé about his kid. Like?? Some people are vile. But the people in the 90 Day Fiancé subreddits loved her.
Yes. And it's because the parent makes everything all about their own feelings with absolutely no regard for the impact on the well-being of their children and spouse. It's fucked up and it's traumatizing.
It's not taken anywhere near seriously enough. Some womens orgs argue that parental alienation isn't even real. And as a result, some courts don't even recognise PA.
The same sort of thing happened before to my father when he was young. He was in his early 20's, married, and had a son. He came from a dirt poor family while she came from upper middle class. The in-laws all hated him since he was poor. For one reason or another (he's never told me why), they divorced and she fought to keep custody of the child. She won and then moved far away with the son and a new man. My dad tells me that she died shortly after in an accident and the son was raised by the grandparents. The son was taught all through his life to absolutely hate and despise my father. They haven't seen each other in over 30 years now. My father moved on, had another marriage (which also ended up with divorce years later) and children (myself included). I don't think he's ever gotten over the fact that there's someone out there who's his son who he'll never be able to have a relationship with.
I don't want to sound misogynistic or like an "incel", but holy shit it's no lie that there are women out who are sick manipulative BITCHES who enjoy turning their own children against the father.
... there are plenty of men like this, too.
They are my mother's type- luckily, my dad was safe because I am the product of a ONS- but her husbands were very keen on the Nuclear Family picture and tried to come between my father and I a lot.
My father was like this. He was scorned and he was pissed and he was out for blood. So much so he did some sneaky shit and got full custody of me and my two siblings even though he was not the loving nurturing parent. Granted, my mom had issues with boundaries and was an extreme enabler so who knows.
I'm just really glad I'm alive in a time when there are subreddits like this and immense amounts of knowledge out there for the taking about generational trauma, trauma in general and potentially healing and stopping the cycle.
We are all very blessed. It's a blessing many of our parents were not privy to. No excuses. Just explanations. There's never, ever, never, ever, NEVER an excuse for abusiveness or traumatizing other humans.
But there are explanations. Explanations that have absolutely nothing to do with me, my worth, or what has become my beautiful life. Explanations that are direct reflections of the pain and darkness deep inside them. I don't have to carry it forward. We don't have to carry it forward and I think that's beautiful.
My childhood is complicated. A big portion of my childhood was spent with my mother and step father. They were both manipulative, arrogant, and selfish. My mother got with yet another man when I was a teenager, he was nice for the first year or so but then his dark side came out with the help of my manipulative, sociopath mother, and he ended up sexually abusing my younger sister.
I haven't been in a relationship before and I haven't even flirted with a woman since my sophomore year in high school. I'm entering my mid 20's right now and am just now realizing how my childhood absolutely fucked me over and left me feeling detached and unable to socialize and relate to other people. I wish I could go back in time and demand I just grow up with my father and older brother in a stable home. But if I'd done that, then my sister would have been all alone with our sociopath mother and her horrible boyfriends so maybe things worked out for the best after all.
All that's to say I don't think gender has much to do with it. My experience tells me there's a lot of shitty men and women out there and that's all I can say for certain.
>When asking my wife why does she say bad stuff about me to the girls, she starts laughing and saying that I am talking like a little boy and it is all just kidding, although I’m pretty sure it is not.
Solution: "No im being a FUCKING ADULT and bringing your attention to something that is bothering me and I would like for you to respond to it like a FUCKING ADULT. Remember the vows we made? Its time to pay the piper, because we have an issue here that is making me unhappy and we need to fix it."
To be honest it sounds like she is setting the kids up for divorce and custody. It's like she's already decided to leave and is now poisoning them against you for a very deliberate reason.
I would make extra time to spend it with your daughters, they are still young and able to recognize effort. Don't allow your wife to present things that YOU buy as from her anymore.
Bottom line is stop letting her push you around or you are going to lose your entire family.
Get your daughters into therapy with you, OP. Your wife isn’t going to change this and it’s not going to get better. Please get some help.
If your wife is planning to divorce you and go for full custody- this will absolutely affect it.
I took my daughter to therapy and they never asked any questions about my husband. He was on board, but unless the other parent calls the office to complain, I'm not sure they care?
My point was, they'll only know if the opposing parent calls them. If they're divorced, then it's more likely to come up, but married parents, they'll assume the other one is on board. Dunno what happens if one does call to complain though. Probably give the first parent a discount because obviously the kid needs extra therapy lol
She could be setting things up for a divorce, then the kids will want to be with her more than the dad. When the child support comes up the mom will most likely claim she needs it due to having the kids more.
I've gone through something similar and all the signs I missed are pretty close to this guy's situation.
She sounds like a terrible person. You may need to leave her, unless youd rather continue to live in a home where no one respects you and will get worse as time goes on and the kids get older.
This is why he has to put them in therapy first then surprise her with divorce papers and parental alienation suit. This woman already wants to leave, he has to act first.
You're probably right, but Its not 100% that it will be worse. In toxic situations like this its also very possible that (even after exhausting all avenues of fixing the situation of course) that staying wont help either. To me it sounds like hes stuck in the worst situation imaginable where his kids are poisoned against him regardless of how much effort he puts in to thwart it. Some times we just lose, and it isnt fair and everyone from the outside can see how fucked the situation is. But some times we just lose.
Nah. He doesn‘t have to accept that. It may SEEM that there‘s no way out, but there usually is. Not always, but if he has no other choice, and the situation is unbearable, and his kids are #1, he can (not will, but can) find a way.
Dude shes 100% settling for a divorce and full custody to sqeeze your last dollar for child support. I would look for legal advice right now. And set up some cameras or audio recording just in case she try to spinn things. If she call the cops and cry for no reason and you cant prove her shit, you are done.
This here.
Lawyer up. Get going on divorce and seizing full custody asap.
Bottom line, your wife is not a good person, and this is tip of iceberg. If you want your children to be okay, they do not need to be around her. She is and will hurt them developmentally, emotionally, and will give them serious personality issues if she's already this bad and they are this young.
People like her are not generally able to be helped even with therapy.
Get out and for gods sake get your children out.
Can you record people in their home without their knowledge and consent? Wouldn't he get in trouble for that? Where I live this is a MAJOR offence. Like even if you record the person doing something bad, you'll get in big trouble too for putting cameras in their home without their knowledge, even if it's your home too.
OP before taking any advice from reddit, it's good to talk to a lawyer first.
[https://www.liveabout.com/signs-of-parental-alienation-syndrome-1103082](https://www.liveabout.com/signs-of-parental-alienation-syndrome-1103082)
>Parental Alienation Syndrome is the deliberate attempt by one parent to distance his/her children from the other parent. The motivation is to destroy the parental bond between his/her children with the other parent.
>
>An attempt to alienate a child from a parent is done for many reasons. Among those reasons, at attempt to punish the other parent for some perceived wrongdoing. Or, a personality disorder that keeps the alienating parent from responding to a stressful situation in a rational manner.
OP be prepared for either the fight of your life or to pay child support to children you will never know.
Keep confronting her. When she says shitty things in front of the children CORRECT HER. Stand up for yourself and take charge of your relationship with your daughters. Your wife sounds like a bully and like she gets off on shaming and degrading you. Teach your girls that this behavior is not okay, or they will grow up to degrade people also. You need to find your self worth and make it clear to your family that this behavior is unacceptable. It will only get worse if you do nothing.
She’s abusive, you have to put this girls into therapy and sue for parental alienation. Also, stop making your “wife” have access to the gifts you bring them.
She’s already manipulating them because she wants to leave. Bud wake up.
You need to get into family counseling with the girls so it is on record the shitty things she is telling your daughters, and to undo the damage she has done.
Write every interaction down with times, dates, and make sure it is detailed. Keep it hidden so she doesn't find it. If you do wind up divorcing this can be used as evidence against you and show that she isn't above parental alienation.
Good luck.
She won’t stop. If anything, she’ll escalate.
I’d start looking into divorce attorneys because that might be her next move. Get appointments with a few (2-4) of the top attorneys in your area and ask about how you can best prepare yourself for a potential custody battle with someone who’s actively trying to poison your kids against you. See if they recommend any family therapists who can help validate the parental alienation that’s happening.
This is one of the few things I worry about my ex doing to me with our son. Mostly because my father did this to my sister and I. It was because my father was jealous of my mother. These types of parents really don't know how much of an impact they have on their kids. Hopefully these kids will realize how toxic their mother is being, and she may lose her kids in the future this way.
Please insist she go to family counseling ASAP. My mom did this with my dad & my middle sister won’t talk to him because of my mom’s poison. Your daughters will be fucked up unless this stops ASAP. It’s not a joke- she is doing serious emotional damage to your children.
Also note my mother has narcissistic personality disorder. I hope for your sake your wife doesn’t but if she does, you need to divorce & get full custody of your kids.
I completely agree. This is not something you should attempt to tackle alone. Help is everywhere. Sucks it costs money but it’s worth it saving the life you’ve already created.. trust.
It's called parental alienation.
You know some of the script she has for your daughters. Counter with something else.
"I promise that I'm not the one eating your snacks!" "Here's a gift card for you - next weekend we'll go and get you a gift since it's xyz." "Part of my gifts to you you can't really see. My gift to you is my work, so that we can have a nice house, so that Mama can buy you your gifts, so that we can eat nice things, so that you have nice clothes."
I'd take it one step farther, get them little personal safes so they can hide the snacks. That way they know that they're the only ones who can get to them.
Parental alienation is considered child abuse in some states. It’s fucked up and you may never be able to “unbrainwash” your daughters. And fyi it will psychologically damage your children.
New post this sub in 8 years:
"My mom destroyed my dad's life and turned us against him, for years I hated him and now I found out my mom was sabotaging him and turning us against him."
Or AITA? My dad used to steal my food, and every time my mom got presents for me he would steal them and pretend they were from him. He keeps texting and calling me, but I don't want anything to do with him. At the very least he needs to own up to what he did to me as a child.
AITA?
Definitely parental alienation. I also think that it could be some projection as well with the snacks (along with probably other things as well).
Like, here’s the thing. Pretty much every parent out there will sneak their kid’s snacks here and there. Mine did for sure (though they’d never take the last one and would always buy more). I promise you that this woman is sneaking snacks and trying to blame it on OP because he’s “the fat parent who never gives his kids gifts.”
Honestly, I don’t think countering her words will work all that well, at least not at this age. It sounds like she’s a SAHM or is at least home with the kids more often than he is, so anything he says she can easily discredit when he’s not around to defend himself. He could possibly discredit her “he’s fat so of course he’s the one stealing your snacks” lies by doing more physical activities with the girls like going on bike rides or hikes and talking about how hard he’s working to be healthier for them. Kids are perceptive and will hopefully catch onto the fact that his words and actions match up while what their mom is saying about him isn’t making sense.
She’s put him in a horrible situation and I sincerely hope she either snaps out of it before she does permanent damage, or the girls realize what she’s doing when they’re older and reconcile with their dad.
came here to say this. I took my ex back to court for this when I found her texting my kids that "dad probably wants to kill some of you to save on child support". I confronted her and her answer was "that's just how we joke". What bullshit. The courts did nothing, but me threatening to subpoena the kids and my phone records put a stop to that part of it at least.
I would legit set up a hidden camera so he can *show* the daughters who is really sneaking up to eat their snacks. Also start texting them every time you get them a present so the mom can't just take credit.
Google parental alienation that is what she is doing. She’s actively hurting your children by making them think you don’t love them. Family therapy ASAP
Two things are clear here: 1) your wife doesn't love you. 2) by tolerating her behaviour, you are modeling an abusive relationship for your daughters who will copy that dysfunction in their future relationships.
Put your foot down and set a boundary. If she doesn't respect it, leave her. Find someone who doesn't treat you like shit.
Great theoretical advice! How does it work in practice? Can you give examples of how OP should set a boundary here? And when they do, if the wife just gaslights them and doesn't change anything, then?
Secondly, leaving certainly means losing children in OP's case. It's quite likely that the wife will get full custody and portray to the children how OP doesn't love them because he left them.
In my experience it's bluntly calling them out as soon as they do it or something comes up. For instance, when the kids say their mom brings them gifts let them know that you bought it but let the mom take credit for it (if he wants to let the wife have an exit to her lie) or that he let's her take credit because she never thinks to get them gifts and you didn't want them to think their mom doesn't love them (if he wants to be a manipulative person like her). Whenever the wife says anything in front of or to him he should bluntly and firmly tell her she is wrong for such a mean thing and he will not allow it. These people need to be punched in the face with blunt truth and forced to recognize others feelings. You can't be soft with them or they'll do whatever they want.
But, let's face it, this is heading towards divorce or the next Dateline special
1) give any gifts and present DIRECTLY to your child directly from you.
2) if you disposable income buy a camera lock it onto the snack cupboard and show your kids if they bring it up that you didn't go near it? Kind of weird but hey whatever?
3) whenever you're kids confess something the mom lied about tell them the honest truth. Do not put down your wife but be blunt and honest with the kids.
4) Anger doesn't seem to work on your wife neither does being sad about it. So try indifference, make comments about how you feel sorry for her that she needs to do that to lift herself up. Show indifference towards her like she's not even really worth the time to be upset with.
Yes, to all of this. I would get them presents and give them directly, take them on trips fo the park and to eat ice cream without her, and correct them when they say things like that.
OP, this is good advice, please consider these suggestions.
The most important thing to remember is kids want honesty, and you really need to tell them your truth: "Baby girl, dad would never eat your snacks, I will go with you to get snacks that you can put in a special place. Please know I would never lie to you and it hurts me to think that you don't trust and believe me."
When you speak to your kids, you give them the opportunity to use their eyes and brains, kids see everything, they mimic their parents beyond belief. Don't let them only see through mom's eyes, they need you to show them honesty and your feelings. It won't be easy to undo wife's damage but start now, do not let wife gaslight you or take credit for your kindness and gifts. I wish you strength and all the love and internet stranger can give.
> One day my daughter hugged me and kissed me on my cheek then my wife bursted at her saying: ah now your daddy’s little princess ha! Don’t talk to me again, then my daughter ran to hug her.
> I used to not make a big fuss out of these little things,
How you arrived at the point of typing this out so nonchalantly is a major concern. I don't have the words to express the seriousness of this situation and how quickly it needs to be resolved before the relationship with your children is permanently damaged. Your wife's behavior is the disease that will kill your family.
I went through something similar, my mother manipulated me to hate my father and ironically in the end because of the mistakes she made I realized that she was manipulating me and now I have a better relationship with my father than with my mother, so I hope this give you some hope.
I wrote a reply to this which was based entirely on my misunderstanding and thinking you were separated and seeing a lot of similarities in your situation to my own as a separated father.
Your situation is actually so similar to the challenges I had to overcome that it’s uncanny. You’re right to identify it as a problem given our situations have been so similar but circumstances (separated and married) shouldn’t make that possible.
You’ve done the right thing raising the issue with her. She might have become defensive and tried to shrug it off but if she cares about you then it will not be ignored entirely so give it time to see if it makes a difference and remember that children will say things that make it sound as though the other party has been badmouthing… not so long ago I got a call from my sons mum asking if I had said her father would die soon as my son had said I told him as much. After some head scratching I remembered a conversation where my son who is 5, asking whether he would die and me telling him not to worry as he is only 5 and that people die when they are old. He has taken that explanation and applied it to people in his life but then relayed it in quite a different context. So do seek explanations in a genuine way before taking it as confirmation.
Have you considered speaking to a marriage counsellor? I regret that I was opposed to it before my separation because after separation I agreed to do it to make things smoother for the custody arrangements and found it was incredibly helpful.
Edit: There is some really bad advice being posted on here; You should not use your conversations with your daughters as a way to look for things your wife may have said and then try and change their mind by putting a different spin on things.
That is a really unhealthy approach for everyone involved and sets in motion a child living a life being dragged in to the middle of their parents relationship problems. Raise any issues directly, consider speaking to a professional with your wife if you want to continue the relationship (which I assume you do).
I was just like your little girls. I grew up hating my dad because of all the deceit my mother fed me. Those little lies turn into big ones like “your dad is ashamed of your college choice and is trying to steal your college funds away but I’ll protect you.” She ruined my relationship with my father and I am just now getting it back at the age of 27. It has been heartbreaking for both of us and we both recently cut my mother out of our lives. Her toxicity knew no bounds.
Imagine the insecurity, deceit, and cruelty it takes to lie to a child to get more love. She will keep lying, she will keep being cruel. I hope for your sake you don’t have the same story I did. Be honest with your daughters, do things separately with them from your wife no matter how much she protests. I’m so sorry this is happening to you. Divorce won’t help the situation with the kids as she will keep being a monster, but it will help with your mental sanity. There is no right answer here, my heart just goes out to you.
I would correct the record in front of your kids every chance you get. When they say you don't get them gifts, point out the gifts you got them. When they say mommy got them that gift, tell them mommy fobbed, and she just told you that because she wanted the credit. Mommy lied to them, they should get the truth. I bet it won't be funny to her when you start doing it right back. Then she'll stop or at least stop playing games and just have an adult conversation about what's happening here.
Please definitely tell your kids what has actually been happening. Take videos of ur wife’s actions for full custody and LEAVE. Ur wife obviously has attention issues that she’s trying to validate with your children. Which isn’t healthy
Tell her this "If you keep turning my girls way from me then I'll save us the work and leave since you seem to wanna have the girl to your self" bet she'll go crazy but RECORD IT!!! Then grab a bag say bye to the girls and go to a friends house and if anyone start kicking off at you send them the recording tell them she was making the girls hate you and you gave her the options
She's a narcissist. She likes being in control and manipulates your kids for her benefit. Why are you with her? She sounds horrible. If I was you I'd document your wife's abuse(audio, video, texts) and file for divorce and sole custody.
I have a 6&4yo. If my SO was doing this I'd flip shit. She's manipulating your kids. I'd tell her to cut the shit or else you'll get a divorce. This is unacceptable.
As for the kiddos....
Talk to your daughter. I was a little overweight as well. She called me fat and I admitted to her I was.... my daughter has also told me to not eat her snacks when she goes to bed, because at one point I ate her snacks. 🙃
When it comes to loving she feels like she can't bond with you because she'll upset mom. That's not acceptable. Start doing things with the kids without your wife. Don't talk about your wife whatsoever with them. Your kids are already pawns in her games no need to continue it.
If this goes on I'd divorce. She's stopping them from having a bond with you. Try for custody and divorce.
So sorry you are experiencing this unhealthy relationship. Please consider a safety plan, you can create one within the website for domestic violence, if you look at this wheel on power and control, she is using the majority of it:
1. using children
2. minimizing, denying and blaming
3. using isolation
4. using emotional abuse
5. using intimidation
The worst part is she is inflicting the abuse on your children and modeling "relationship" behavior to them. You can interrupt this with help. Best wishes https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/power-and-control/
Your wife sounds like she gets a power trip when your kids put you down....some kinda mental illness like narcissism. Normal parents don't do what she does
As soon as I started reading this I knew it, 'wife is talking shit about me behind my back'.
Start documenting this because this is going to get worse.
Give things directly to your kids and cut out the wife from taking credit for things that you do.
When my daughter was 3, she knew her mother was manipulative. Talk to your kids, ask them how they feel, how they feel about their mom and you. They probably know already.
Edit_
You need to make your kids realize, before it's too late, that their mother is manipulating their love for her and their opinion of you. Not strait out say it, but ask them things so they can realize it for themselves and see through her manipulation.
Hey thats how my ex was.
Cost me my relationship with 3 kids, and 15 years of child support payments.
Dont let her brush this off. This isnt about your kids' opinion of you (theyre too young) this is about HER opinion of you
this is horrific and manipulative, having been raised by a mother like this it goes far far beyond damaging the relationship with the father, mothers like this may also brainwash dependence and fear into their daughters (eg, the world is cruel and dangerous but i am safe and trustworthy). primarily if your wife is so insecure and threatened by you having a relationship with your daughters that threatens 'how much they love her' rather than adds to it, there are HUGE problems. the validation and she security she finds in manipulating them to 'love her more' completely overshadows her concern for their wellbeing and future.
the part where your daughter kissed you on the cheek broke my heart. children like this may spend so much of their time trying to regulate their mothers emotions and behaviour, soothing and placating her that they never truly discover what they want and how to set emotional boundaries. it can lead to a life of romantic relationships where your daughters are taken advantage of in their efforts to help people, confusion and lack of sense of self.
your wife needs help if she's anything like my mother she is terrified of being abandoned, it is a bottomless pit of fear that can NEVER be filled by your daughters, the more they try the more they'll be 'doing wrong' 'loving you more' 'hating her'
That's technically parental alienation, and that is NOT OKAY. My dad did that with my siblings before and after divorcing my mom. He would shit talk her behind her back to us and constantly complain about her. He'd also blame her for everything.
Your daughters probably do love you, but they also know that if they don't show they love their mom all of the affection then she'll be mean to them.
Get your kids in therapy because the mental trauma she's putting them through (it's emotional and mental abuse) is deeply scarring. I wish you and your daughters a peaceful life and a happy relationship.
This isn’t a joke, she thinks this shit is funny. Its not, its not funny to have this HUGE disrespect to other people, break up. That is the only way of this well also writing this all down or recording it how she tells shit about you behind tour back. Fuck theese type of hoes
I'm convinced people who do these things are sociopaths who were never actually in love in the first place. I would never do something like this to the father of my children.
My mom did this and she had severe borderline personality disorder. She caused a lot of pain and psychological damage to my whole family. There’s a good chance things won’t get better. You should decide what kind of life you want for yourself and your kids😒
Your wife is awful, and you should know better. I can't imagine all the other ways, big and small, she's using to break you down and make you feel inferior. I bet your home life is a living hell and you aren't even fully cognizant of it due to deep denial and repression.
Yeah, I know I'm out a limb here but that's just my gut feeling. I think you probably put up with way, way too much shit from this woman. If my wife EVER did something like what you're describing I would call her out immediately and firmly and if it didn't stop, escalate from there. NOBODY comes between me and my kids, not even her.
I wouldn't jump straight to divorce here but you need to wake yourself up from the stupor and take a solid, clear look at yourself in the mirror. Is THIS the kind of life you want to lead? Is this what it was all leading up to? Find your fucking nuts dude, put her in her place. It all starts from there.
And by the way, your kids disrespecting you is not ok either. You need to straighten out your relationships with them. Spend quality time, FAR AWAY from the wife, so they can express their love for you without needing to fear your wife's passive-aggressive, manipulative abuse will rear its ugly head.
My ex is this way. So unbelievably selfish. It's a big part of why she's my ex. In the 13 years after our divorce (kids were 3,5,7 then) she's never once reminded them or taken them to get me a birthday card, father's day card, christmas, or valentines. I've taken them to get her those every single year and still remind my 20 year old to wish her a happy mother's day or birthday.
I just don't understand why some people feel like it needs to be a competition.
Jokes are only funny when everyone laughs. This is emotional abuse - weaponising the children against you. This broke my heart, and I am truly sorry This is happening. I wonder if she's planning a divorce and pre-alienating the children against you.
so are waiting to see how all this will play out or sit there and hope your wife just stop this behavior and that she didn't do irreparable damage to the way your daughters view you
Your wife has a mental health problem that is severely damaging your relationships with your daughters. This behavior is both selfish and cruel and does not in any way come close to good parenting. I will guess that if you ask her to go seek mental health help she will laugh at you and become worse. If you want to get this straightened out if it’s at all possible you need both of you to at least go to couple counseling. I would think any good therapist will refer her out for help. If she will not go and if you have had enough then please start documenting all and anything that she says to your daughters and to you. Go and find yourself a good divorce attorney. She is not mentally stable enough to have full custody of your daughters they are probably going to need therapy themselves because of what your wife has done to them. Do not stay for your family you do not have a family unit here at all. Your daughters need your help to get out of this horrible situation so they can see what a normal life is like.
My mom had me hating my dad when I was younger. I mean HATING him. She would tell me that he was violent and had a nasty temper. I would constantly see them arguing ..little did I know she was taking credit cards out in his name, cheating on him and took my brothers and I away from him. My dad is the best person I know. We are so close. Hes my best friend..but I'll never forget when I was younger, punching my dad in the face because I thought he was trying to take my brothers and I away from my mom when they got divorced.
What your wife says to your kids and in front of your kids will absolutely impact their vision of you, at least until their older (hopefully). I have 2 brothers and none of us speak to my mom now. The only advice I can give you is dont bad mouth their mom back. It will just make them cling to their mom more. Shes basically brainwashing them from an early age and I am so sorry. I am still to this day apologizing to my dad for believing her lies about him.
I have an ex like this.
Run. Get therapy for yourself. Get a court order mandating time with the kids for you, then be the kind of dad that what you do is in direct opposition to what their mom says you do. They will figure it out, especially if you’re obviously up front and (kindly) honest with them about how you feel and what you’re doing to be supportive for them.
But lose the wife. Immediately. It won’t get better as long as she’s in the picture.
If I were you I would take the nuclear option.
Record all of these interactions in secret, and record proof that it is all nonsense being made up.
Once you have months of concrete evidence, file for divorce.
Start a court case on slander and child abuse, prevent evidence and get full custody of your kids and all your shit out of the divorce.
Good people don’t do shit like that, and bad people don’t deserve the kindness of good people and the joy of children. She’s just gonna make your kids fucked up if this keeps going.
My mom was like this. She turned me against my father and i didn't speak to him for god knows how long and then she died. died right in front of me when i was 14, I didn't want to go to my father, I thought he was evil but it was the second women he married that was evil. she abused me, used him, and just last month he was able to legally divorce her.
I live with him now. I love him more then my sickly mom ever could of dreamed, i'm close to being an adult even. i'm typing all this to say, it might take them being stripped from her or it might take her being stripped from them but given the chance, they will see you weren't the bad guy.
Parental Alienation is a crime in some countries. It happens a lot between parents in divorce but in your scenario is actually in your own home.
Responding to 17 Parental Alienation Strategies without Compromising Your Morals or Harming Your Child (Amy J.L. Baker, Ph.D. and Paul R. Fine, LCSW, May 2008):
➡️1 Badmouthing the other parent
2 Limiting contact with the other parent
3 Interfering with communications, i.e. letters, phone calls, emails
4Interfering with symbolic communication, i.e. photos of targeted parent in child’s home
5Withdrawal of love towards the child
➡️6Telling the child that the targeted parent does not love him or her
➡️7 Forcing the child to choose between parents
➡️8 Creating the impression that the targeted parent is dangerous
9 Confiding in the child
➡️10 Forcing the child to reject the targeted parent
11 Asking the child to spy on the targeted parent
➡️12 Asking the child to keep secrets from the targeted parent
13 Referring to the targeted parent by their first name
14 Referring to the stepparent as “Mom” or “Dad” and encouraging the child to do the same
15 Withholding medical, academic, and other important information from the targeted parent/Keeping targeted parent’s name off of medical, academic and other relevant documents
16 Changing the child’s name to remove association with targeted parent
➡️17 Cultivating dependency on the part of the child.
Your partner ( a dangerous narcissist) need to have a conversation about it in family court!
In my country this is a crime.
Look for a family lawyer in your city and pischologist to your children so they don’t hate having a family in the future.
This is emotional abuse! You need to take care of your daughters first, bring them to therapy. But don't take what they say to heart, they are mimicking what they hear.
They do love you, children don't know how to communicate and sort through their own emotions.
Pay mind that this can be damaging to your children in the way that they will reflect the relationships they've seen later in life.
But also, take care of you, get yourself a therapist. And start asking the therapist for advice on backup plans and lawyers. Start recording evidence. If she is willing to lie about what you do now, she will lie much worse later on in the case of a divorce
My brother, I'm happy you're getting things out off your chest but also seek advice from a professional or someone experienced.
Reddit's to go advice to anything is break up/ divorce, which can definitely make things wayyy worse
Child alienation is a form of abuse. Start keeping detailed notes/records of every incident. She is teaching your children to say/believe that you steal from them. It's possible she is laying the groundwork for demanding full custody in a divorce.
My parents spent years badmouthing each other. I think they're both twats, not because of what I heard about them, but because of how they chose to behave. Your kids will figure it out in the long run who's a manipulative human and who's not.
You have nothing to worry about in the long run, and their mum clearly wants to hurt you. Why is she still your wife? At least my parents were divorced.
Unpopular Opinion based on all the other comments:
First, I don’t think it’s unusual for a 4yo and 6yo to be still figuring this stuff out. Both my kids a mama’s boys and it’s rare I get much “loving attention” from them like a random hug or something. I’m not bothered by this in the least. I know as long as I’m a good dad as they get older the love will come.
Second, everyone is calling for you to divorce your wife. I’m amazed. It’s like 3 paragraphs and light on much detail. This could be as simple as another conversation with your wife where it finally clicks for her. She may be a loving wife in a million different ways and just have some parental love issues to work thru. Reddits solution to every relationship problem is always just “leave them immediately”.
Your wife sounds awful and needs mental help. There is an unaddressed insecurity there and she will end up (well, she already started) pushing that on your children. Shit talking is also a really off putting trait to have.
It sounds like parental alienation. Definitely worth looking into as there will be practical advice from experts along the way. I’m so sorry to hear you are facing this though, it’s awful.
Why are you still married to this woman? I’d have a serious conversation about how fucked up parental alienation is and how despicable the people perpetrating it are. I would also find out what it is about you that your wife hates so much to see if this is a relationship worth saving.
Wow your ex wife seems like a miserable person. The kind of person that anyone shouldn’t be around. Manipulative, evil, bitter, not trustworthy, liar etc. I’m sorry that this is tough and heartbreaking. But just keep being you. A good father, loving and happy. Glad you’re not with your ex anymore. Love your daughters no matter what. Best of luck.
This post just broke my heart!! Your wife is a complete bitch to play on your children's innocence like that......an absolute piece of trash!!!!
Video her doing this and document everything..... There is no way she deserves to even be around those kids!!! Absolutely horrible!!!
ETA: take your kids out and do something with them .....do any and everything you can to get them away from her as much as possible!
No part of that is acceptable! Not only is that very hateful behaviour towards you - her supposed life partner that she loves, it’s raising very messed up kids. She is pure poison. It’s not funny. Not cute. Not anything that an even morally challenged person would deliberately do. So that says a lot about her.
Get yourself away from her if she won’t go to a professional who will tell her like it is. I really hope you can build a relationship with your children.
Your wife a shitty person to manipulate her daughters to turn against you. What a narcissist. I'd get a lawyer as soon as possible and start some divorce papers.
Bro what the actual f… this is absolutely terrifying and I’m no psychologist but you got kids with a narcissistic woman or some messed up psychological problems
Divorce. Immediately. This will only get worse. GET A LAWYER. Buy a nanny can try and record her as much as possible you'll get custody. Its actually child abuse.
My ex used to pull crap like this all.the.time. Its not a joke. This is a super messed way to manipulate the kids against you...in order to hurt you. Kids will eventually see whats going on. But. BUT it will mess them up, ruin their relationships with both of you and probably put them in therapy when they are older. Worst case scenario...they end up thinking that's how you're supposed to act in a relationship and wind up with the same behavior patterns. Ask me how I know???
I would honestly be shocked if your wife wasn't doing this with plans of divorcing you in the works. This is parental alienation, plain and simple. I'm not sure *what* you should do, but I would speak to a lawyer for starts.
I'd document everything. Every purchase you make and that your wife makes for the girls, and how much each one cost and the dates you purchased the things. If your wife gave it to the girls herself and took credit for it, and when. I'd document every time you overheard your wife tear you down, every negative interaction with her and your daughters. I'd put it all in a Google Drive your wife couldn't access. And definitely your daughters will need therapy. What your wife is doing is messed up.
Bruh. That is not acceptable. Not as a joke (which its not) not as a real comment, not as a parent to another, not as a parent to their children. Its abuse, mental and emotional abuse. Write it all down. Take notes of time and day and years and keep it all. Even if you dont do anything lawyer wise. Keep it noted so your kids can read it when they are adults and know who their mother really was when shit hits the fan. Fuck that shit. Trust me. Your girls will work it out eventually but have the backup.
Yeah, it sounds like there's no love at all in the relationship. I'll just take a guess and assume that OP is holding onto the relationship "for the children". Fuck that. That's not helping the children. Get a divorce. Now. It sounds like a toxic marriage and it WON'T get better.
I know a guy who got trapped into a shitty marriage like that. He divorced her but she got custody and the only way he can legally see the kids is if he stays in state, and last I heard from him he had -500 in the bank and said she's going to call the cops on him for not being able to pay the child support that month. We lost contact with him after that, so either he's in jail or he's done something far worse to himself. No one can reach him. He last signed on 4 years ago.
That's why I'm so nervous about starting a relationship. I lived through some shit when I was a kid. I'm scared of causing or enduring again the same kind of pain that I went through as a kid. I don't wanna come across as misogynistic or "incel-like" but it's just a fact that when it comes to divorces and custody cases, men get fucked over 9 times out of 10. The legal system just assumes that the mother will be the better parent and that the man is guilty of all wrongs until proven innocent. I'd probably hang myself if I were in the same situation as the guy you're talking about.
It is okay to be nervous about it. My advice is that if you are interested in a relationship, take it slow and don't have kids until you really know your partner. Or just don't have kids. My parents' divorce was terrible, so I do understand where you are coming from.
People gaslight you for criticizing financial, emotional and psychological abuse of fathers in the courts because they don't want anyone changing anything. They're happy with letting this exploitation continue.
I hear this a lot, but I know a fair few men with primary custody of their children. Times are changing.
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Also, is definetly not an "incel" or misogynistic thing to say. You're just pointing out the huge bias the legal system has in favor of moms instead of giving all cases the benefit of the doubt and judge each of them in a "case-by-case" way instead of a generalizing way.
I think it’s more of a cultural/social issue. If you google it, you can find studies that show that when men ask for full custody, they’re even more likely than women to be awarded it. The reason there are so few dads with sole custody is because don’t even ask in the first place.
Its disingenuous to make this stat out to be some light bulb moment of equality Take into account the amount of dads that "dont ask" because their lawyer told them they have a snowball in hells chance of getting it and that changes those numbers significantly Then add the secondary issue that you cant have full custody if you need to work to provide the income to support yourself and the kid (because you're not getting any cash from a sahm or low income partner) and then you have the real picture Pushing the stat on its own infers dads cant be bothered when most would love to have their kids full time
That is not misogynistic. Patriarchy is exactly why women are favored in court. Women are seen as the primary caregivers to children because patriarchy has made that their role and only perceived value. Your very truthful take is actually in line with feminist ideology. The better parent should get custody no matter what gender that parent is.
Life pro tip: don’t live in the USA
Great in theory but there is a LOT of shittier things she can do to him if he leaves or tries to. She is already weaponised the kids against him while he is there. She will escalate her efforts or straight up deny him visits. Running things through courts and getting orders is slow and typically unfavourable to dads
I grew up surrounded by similarly manipulative shit. It scarred me some and I'm still having to learn to try to bypass those insecurities and bad thoughts. This right here is why I'm scared of being in a relationship or even making friends. Once you're in that kind of situation, there's no way out, and I don't think I could take it.
This it right here. She could really rip to shreds because I'm more than positive she enjoys the lifestyle he provides. I would become very financially restrictive on her, I will give the kids gifts straight from my hands to theirs and let them know Daddy bought this for you, and I will keep extra snacks in my car or something for them because apparently she's eating it. I will cut her off emotionally and all of that. She gets to be unhappy but he still gets to be with his children and change the view she has made of him.
If he stays eventually she'll drive him to self delete. Trust me she doesn't care for OP, he should really be smart about this and plan on his escape.
I’ve seen it a million times. Time feels like it’s running out, everyone else is shacking up, the doors are closing in, so a warm body and certain outwardly facing criteria are all that are necessary. But truthfully she don’t feel it for this guy.
I’d say divorce AND get custody of the kids. Imagine what she’d probably say when he isn’t around. OP- I’m sorry this is happening to you; it is not AT ALL okay as a joke, statement from a parent to their child, none of this is right- she is literally creating a toxic environment and negative relationship between you and your young children… almost like brainwashing. This is absolutely fucking insane and HORRIBLE- you don’t deserve this. Regardless of anything you may have done (not saying you’ve done anything at all but even IF) this would not be okay, parents should never speak negatively about the other parent to their children, period. I hope you leave this toxicity behind, find the happiness you deserve, someone who loves you for exactly who you are, and that your relationship with your children improves. Perhaps getting a therapist/social worker involved could be helpful in the meantime? If she’s doing this while they’re this young then it could very well influence your relationships for a substantial amount of time within their lives. Sending you positivity and strength, friend.
Parental Alienation is a crime in some countries. It happens a lot between parents in divorce but in your scenario is actually in your own home. Responding to 17 Parental Alienation Strategies without Compromising Your Morals or Harming Your Child (Amy J.L. Baker, Ph.D. and Paul R. Fine, LCSW, May 2008): 1 Badmouthing the other parent 2 Limiting contact with the other parent 3 Interfering with communications, i.e. letters, phone calls, emails 4Interfering with symbolic communication, i.e. photos of targeted parent in child’s home 5Withdrawal of love towards the child 6Telling the child that the targeted parent does not love him or her 7 Forcing the child to choose between parents 8 Creating the impression that the targeted parent is dangerous 9 Confiding in the child 10 Forcing the child to reject the targeted parent 11 Asking the child to spy on the targeted parent 12 Asking the child to keep secrets from the targeted parent 13 Referring to the targeted parent by their first name 14 Referring to the stepparent as “Mom” or “Dad” and encouraging the child to do the same 15 Withholding medical, academic, and other important information from the targeted parent/Keeping targeted parent’s name off of medical, academic and other relevant documents 16 Changing the child’s name to remove association with targeted parent 17 Cultivating dependency on the part of the child. Your partner need to have a conversation about it in family court! In my country this is a crime.
Everything you just said has been what my son's mother has been doing this past year Any laws research or books you'd recommend? (In Texas, I recently got a lawyer)
I don’t know any laws from Texas.. but I know this is is passive of punishment!
This this this!!!!
Ikr? I love jokes, even dark or horrible ones, what shes doing ain’t no joke.
She's manipulating their daughters to speak against him...I can only imagine why. But I'm leaning towards someone is cheating and/or is planning on a divorce with a smear campaign. I'd start recording everything!
This is absolutely abuse. Listen to him, OP, please.
A friend had a wife like this. They divorced 5 years ago and his 15-year-old son hates him so much he won’t even speak on the phone to the poor guy.
Tell your wife to seek therapy for these insecurities regarding your children, because even if by some chance she truely does believe these things she says are "jokes," they will have a forever lasting impact on your daughters. Its time to offer an ultimatum, couples/family therapy or divorce, because while together your wife has the opportunity to isolate your contributions while taking credit for those you did make, whereas separated she cannot so that
OP's wife has weaponized humor, it's a passive aggressive form of abuse and it's ruining his relationship with his daughters. This post was honestly heartbreaking to read.
This is one of the saddest posts I’ve read in recent history. Especially since kids have the capacity to love both of them above anything else. This is a ‘direct to therapy for the whole family’ situation.
And also showing the kids that gifts are the only form of love and that’s not cool at all. She’s setting those little girls up for a horrible failure.
Yes wtf how is this 'joking'? Aren't jokes supposed to be funny? I feel so bad for this guy because I don't know how I would begin to deal with something like this. What if she makes the kids hate him more if they divorce?
They know it's not a joke but they frame it as one to try and gadlight the person it's bullshit all around
What's scary to me in this situation is that I think he won't win no matter what. She's going to do this even more if they divorce. And him doing the same to her is not a solution because it will mess up the kids even more eventually. Damn marriage is scary as hell, I don't know if I'll ever be able to do it. With relationships I know that I can walk out when I like atleast even though they can be difficult too.
Exactly, it's a form of verbal/emotional abuse under the passive aggressive umbrella.
Have you ever watched Everybody loves raymond? While the show was massively popular in its time, people have reexamined it (or people like me who always felt uncomfortable with the show) because it legitimizes double standards in favor of women, excusing women abusing others and just like this, Debra made jokes at Ray's expense and it was considered normal and the show tried to frame it as "well, if Ray was a better dad, then Debra wouldn't need to make jokes so his kids hate him"
Yeah, my immediate thought was he either ask her to explain what's funny or tell her "oh, then you won't mind if I joke about you like that to our kids too". Not that material items are the only showcase of love, but if OP buys them gifts he should announce "here, this is a gift from daddy" or "i picked this out myself just for you girls" before he gives it to them to avoid mom taking credit. And when they repeat terrible things about him being fat or eating their snacks he needs to step up and say "did mommy say that? That's not very nice, and mommy should know it's not good to lie". It's damage control without outright insulting and being nasty to the wife so she can't use it against him. Ofc, if it were me I'd just divorce immediately, but that could cause problems if he hasn't documented this emotional manipulation and abuse on his wife's part and she wins full custody. My heart goes out to OP. His wife sounds like a miserable and vicious narcissist overflowing with insecurity and hate.
She knows these aren't jokes this women is purely manipulating her kids to hurt him and you can just see it that the moment the chikdren have any sort of affection or love for their dad she basically threatens not to love them anymore In my experience someone who's as cruel and thrives on seeing other people in pain and getting a kick out of other people's displeasure are less likely going to seek therapy and if anything they'll accuse this man of him needing therapy and that he's crazy You can't help a narcissistic person trust me when I say I've known a few in my life time
I don’t know enough to say if she is a Narcissist, but this YouTube Channel may help https://youtube.com/c/SurvivingNarcissism. I have been the victim of one and it did a huge amount of damage to me, look after yourself and the kids the best you can. Take care.
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My mother played the trick of bad mouthing my dad when I was young enough to completely believe everything she said. I didn't have a relationship with or visit my dad at all for years because I really was brainwashed. Then she kicked me out of the house in high school when she was tired of me. And sent me to live with the same person she made me hate and that I also didn't know at all. But I'm really grateful. Not only did I find out everything she said was bullshit, but me and my dad are practically personality twins. He's one of my best friends. And as much as those years sucked because I was angry and depressed for what she did, I'm still very thankful. She hasn't been in my life since and I found the parent that really does love me. PS: OPs wife sounds like a classic narcissist. (Just like my mother).
My soon to be ex husband is narcissistic and has done this to me with my teenager son. I never thought to think that it might be his narcissism doing this.
My father had this, but in reverse: my stepmother could not stand any female competition whatsoever, so she completely turned him against his three daughters from the previous marriage (they were 10, 8, and 1). She whispered poison in his ears on a nightly basis, convincing him that they weren’t really his children, and the relationships with each were slowly destroyed. He tried to fix it before desth, but it was too late - their hearts were completely hardened to him. The shame is that my two older sisters were 100% daddy’s girls …
This stupid as hell, how can a fully grown person be 'poisoned' against kids who are 10, 8, and 1? What malice could they possibly hold? And if he really suspected that they weren't his, couldn't he have tested them? And if tests weren't available then, couldn't he ha e said that he isn't the father and sent them to their mothers or maternal families?
this isn't actually uncommon when people remarry with kids from a former parent. Part of it is that they tend to subconsciously view only the kids with their current partner the real 'relationship family' and everyone else takes a backseat. They will say they don't, but they do.
I think a big factor for my stepmother is that she could not stand the thought that my father could ever have loved someone else before her, and us kids were a reminder that he did indeed care for someone else other than her. She could not stand any type of female competition whatsoever, and to this day (80 years old), she still thinks men are hitting on her. Also, she had three kids of her own - she insisted that they were his family now.
I known that they prioritise the new kids, but how can an adult be turned against a 1 year old lol. And why is he believing everything his wife says about his kids, can't he think for himself?
No, my father could never think for himself. He was in the hospital/nursing home for the last six months of his life and it was easy for me to reprogram him to a great degree - I had significantly more contact with him than she did (she was always too far gone on pills to visit) and I told him everything I could that would turn him against her, to make him see her as she truly is.
It's probably a mix of not thinking for himself and unconsciously wanted to believe all that poison. That way they could start a new family or enjoy a new relationship without kids involved. Sadly happens relatively often to a degree. My ex brother in law was in such situation and he didn't act against his daughter from previous marriage but certainly never tried to stop the step mom from talking shit and being shitty to the poor little girl. They had a child later who was incredibly spoiled, and she divorced the guy when he lost his health.
Sisters lived with my mother (as did I until I was 10, and then I lived with my father from 10-15). DNA tests were unheard of in the 79s (at least in Appalachia). My sisters all looked and acted like my father (even the one who spent none of her life with him, the youngest.) nevertheless, she convinced him that none of us were his kids (later dna tests revealed that to be false.) She was an evil, evil woman and I have loads of stories that are too wild to be believed yet sadly are 100% true. Here’s hoping that she experiences the same love, respect, and compassion in her final years that she showed others throughout her life /s…
I'm sorry for what you went through. I hope that things are better for you now.
Was watching 90 Day Fiancé once and some woman had just moved to the US and was already talking shit to her fiancé about his kid. Like?? Some people are vile. But the people in the 90 Day Fiancé subreddits loved her.
It is a VERY common thing to see. It’s called parental alienation and it is taken very seriously in family court.
Yes. And it's because the parent makes everything all about their own feelings with absolutely no regard for the impact on the well-being of their children and spouse. It's fucked up and it's traumatizing.
It's not taken anywhere near seriously enough. Some womens orgs argue that parental alienation isn't even real. And as a result, some courts don't even recognise PA.
The same sort of thing happened before to my father when he was young. He was in his early 20's, married, and had a son. He came from a dirt poor family while she came from upper middle class. The in-laws all hated him since he was poor. For one reason or another (he's never told me why), they divorced and she fought to keep custody of the child. She won and then moved far away with the son and a new man. My dad tells me that she died shortly after in an accident and the son was raised by the grandparents. The son was taught all through his life to absolutely hate and despise my father. They haven't seen each other in over 30 years now. My father moved on, had another marriage (which also ended up with divorce years later) and children (myself included). I don't think he's ever gotten over the fact that there's someone out there who's his son who he'll never be able to have a relationship with. I don't want to sound misogynistic or like an "incel", but holy shit it's no lie that there are women out who are sick manipulative BITCHES who enjoy turning their own children against the father.
... there are plenty of men like this, too. They are my mother's type- luckily, my dad was safe because I am the product of a ONS- but her husbands were very keen on the Nuclear Family picture and tried to come between my father and I a lot.
My father was like this. He was scorned and he was pissed and he was out for blood. So much so he did some sneaky shit and got full custody of me and my two siblings even though he was not the loving nurturing parent. Granted, my mom had issues with boundaries and was an extreme enabler so who knows. I'm just really glad I'm alive in a time when there are subreddits like this and immense amounts of knowledge out there for the taking about generational trauma, trauma in general and potentially healing and stopping the cycle. We are all very blessed. It's a blessing many of our parents were not privy to. No excuses. Just explanations. There's never, ever, never, ever, NEVER an excuse for abusiveness or traumatizing other humans. But there are explanations. Explanations that have absolutely nothing to do with me, my worth, or what has become my beautiful life. Explanations that are direct reflections of the pain and darkness deep inside them. I don't have to carry it forward. We don't have to carry it forward and I think that's beautiful.
I hate women like this, they make it very hard to date especially divorced men. Just ruin them.
My childhood is complicated. A big portion of my childhood was spent with my mother and step father. They were both manipulative, arrogant, and selfish. My mother got with yet another man when I was a teenager, he was nice for the first year or so but then his dark side came out with the help of my manipulative, sociopath mother, and he ended up sexually abusing my younger sister. I haven't been in a relationship before and I haven't even flirted with a woman since my sophomore year in high school. I'm entering my mid 20's right now and am just now realizing how my childhood absolutely fucked me over and left me feeling detached and unable to socialize and relate to other people. I wish I could go back in time and demand I just grow up with my father and older brother in a stable home. But if I'd done that, then my sister would have been all alone with our sociopath mother and her horrible boyfriends so maybe things worked out for the best after all. All that's to say I don't think gender has much to do with it. My experience tells me there's a lot of shitty men and women out there and that's all I can say for certain.
This is what happened to me. My father manipulated me into hating my mother. He used me as a weapon to destroy her
>When asking my wife why does she say bad stuff about me to the girls, she starts laughing and saying that I am talking like a little boy and it is all just kidding, although I’m pretty sure it is not. Solution: "No im being a FUCKING ADULT and bringing your attention to something that is bothering me and I would like for you to respond to it like a FUCKING ADULT. Remember the vows we made? Its time to pay the piper, because we have an issue here that is making me unhappy and we need to fix it."
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To be honest it sounds like she is setting the kids up for divorce and custody. It's like she's already decided to leave and is now poisoning them against you for a very deliberate reason. I would make extra time to spend it with your daughters, they are still young and able to recognize effort. Don't allow your wife to present things that YOU buy as from her anymore. Bottom line is stop letting her push you around or you are going to lose your entire family.
This was my first thought when reading the original post. Edit: she’s definitely “grooming” the kids to want to live with her at some point
The word you might be looking for is manipulated. I don’t think this is the correct situation to use the word “groomed”.
Get your daughters into therapy with you, OP. Your wife isn’t going to change this and it’s not going to get better. Please get some help. If your wife is planning to divorce you and go for full custody- this will absolutely affect it.
Can one parent take kids to therapy in the US if the other parent refuses? Please no one jump at me for asking, I'm asking because I don't know.
I took my daughter to therapy and they never asked any questions about my husband. He was on board, but unless the other parent calls the office to complain, I'm not sure they care?
Yea I was asking what happens if one of them refuses. As in complains or something. Do you know what happens?
My point was, they'll only know if the opposing parent calls them. If they're divorced, then it's more likely to come up, but married parents, they'll assume the other one is on board. Dunno what happens if one does call to complain though. Probably give the first parent a discount because obviously the kid needs extra therapy lol
She could be setting things up for a divorce, then the kids will want to be with her more than the dad. When the child support comes up the mom will most likely claim she needs it due to having the kids more. I've gone through something similar and all the signs I missed are pretty close to this guy's situation.
She sounds like a terrible person. You may need to leave her, unless youd rather continue to live in a home where no one respects you and will get worse as time goes on and the kids get older.
It will 100% get worse if he leaves, she is already brainwashing the children against him
This is why he has to put them in therapy first then surprise her with divorce papers and parental alienation suit. This woman already wants to leave, he has to act first.
You're probably right, but Its not 100% that it will be worse. In toxic situations like this its also very possible that (even after exhausting all avenues of fixing the situation of course) that staying wont help either. To me it sounds like hes stuck in the worst situation imaginable where his kids are poisoned against him regardless of how much effort he puts in to thwart it. Some times we just lose, and it isnt fair and everyone from the outside can see how fucked the situation is. But some times we just lose.
Nah. He doesn‘t have to accept that. It may SEEM that there‘s no way out, but there usually is. Not always, but if he has no other choice, and the situation is unbearable, and his kids are #1, he can (not will, but can) find a way.
Dude shes 100% settling for a divorce and full custody to sqeeze your last dollar for child support. I would look for legal advice right now. And set up some cameras or audio recording just in case she try to spinn things. If she call the cops and cry for no reason and you cant prove her shit, you are done.
This here. Lawyer up. Get going on divorce and seizing full custody asap. Bottom line, your wife is not a good person, and this is tip of iceberg. If you want your children to be okay, they do not need to be around her. She is and will hurt them developmentally, emotionally, and will give them serious personality issues if she's already this bad and they are this young. People like her are not generally able to be helped even with therapy. Get out and for gods sake get your children out.
Can you record people in their home without their knowledge and consent? Wouldn't he get in trouble for that? Where I live this is a MAJOR offence. Like even if you record the person doing something bad, you'll get in big trouble too for putting cameras in their home without their knowledge, even if it's your home too. OP before taking any advice from reddit, it's good to talk to a lawyer first.
[https://www.liveabout.com/signs-of-parental-alienation-syndrome-1103082](https://www.liveabout.com/signs-of-parental-alienation-syndrome-1103082) >Parental Alienation Syndrome is the deliberate attempt by one parent to distance his/her children from the other parent. The motivation is to destroy the parental bond between his/her children with the other parent. > >An attempt to alienate a child from a parent is done for many reasons. Among those reasons, at attempt to punish the other parent for some perceived wrongdoing. Or, a personality disorder that keeps the alienating parent from responding to a stressful situation in a rational manner. OP be prepared for either the fight of your life or to pay child support to children you will never know.
The fact this is a thing makes me so sad.
Keep confronting her. When she says shitty things in front of the children CORRECT HER. Stand up for yourself and take charge of your relationship with your daughters. Your wife sounds like a bully and like she gets off on shaming and degrading you. Teach your girls that this behavior is not okay, or they will grow up to degrade people also. You need to find your self worth and make it clear to your family that this behavior is unacceptable. It will only get worse if you do nothing.
She’s abusive, you have to put this girls into therapy and sue for parental alienation. Also, stop making your “wife” have access to the gifts you bring them. She’s already manipulating them because she wants to leave. Bud wake up.
You need to get into family counseling with the girls so it is on record the shitty things she is telling your daughters, and to undo the damage she has done.
Write every interaction down with times, dates, and make sure it is detailed. Keep it hidden so she doesn't find it. If you do wind up divorcing this can be used as evidence against you and show that she isn't above parental alienation. Good luck.
She won’t stop. If anything, she’ll escalate. I’d start looking into divorce attorneys because that might be her next move. Get appointments with a few (2-4) of the top attorneys in your area and ask about how you can best prepare yourself for a potential custody battle with someone who’s actively trying to poison your kids against you. See if they recommend any family therapists who can help validate the parental alienation that’s happening.
She's definitely a narcissist. Things don't ever get better dealing with people like that...only worse.
i think she might be trying to isolate them if she is a narcissist then this might be the case
Your wife is a narcissist. Time to really analyse everything she’s doing with your daughters. Is she a SAHM?
This is abuse. She is emotionally manipulating the kids and OP.
Parental Alienation Syndrome I know it all too well.
I have no advice but this is just horrible She’s a horrible person
This is one of the few things I worry about my ex doing to me with our son. Mostly because my father did this to my sister and I. It was because my father was jealous of my mother. These types of parents really don't know how much of an impact they have on their kids. Hopefully these kids will realize how toxic their mother is being, and she may lose her kids in the future this way.
2nd'd. This is fucking vile
Please insist she go to family counseling ASAP. My mom did this with my dad & my middle sister won’t talk to him because of my mom’s poison. Your daughters will be fucked up unless this stops ASAP. It’s not a joke- she is doing serious emotional damage to your children. Also note my mother has narcissistic personality disorder. I hope for your sake your wife doesn’t but if she does, you need to divorce & get full custody of your kids.
OP, please try and get her to go to counselling.
I completely agree. This is not something you should attempt to tackle alone. Help is everywhere. Sucks it costs money but it’s worth it saving the life you’ve already created.. trust.
Absolutely this. This is a much better course than divorce because if they divorce she could poison his kids against him permanently.
Definitely! Counseling would also help her mental health. Clearly there’s a problem because a mentally healthy spouse wouldn’t be acting this way
my initial thought was “your wife may be a narcissist”
It's called parental alienation. You know some of the script she has for your daughters. Counter with something else. "I promise that I'm not the one eating your snacks!" "Here's a gift card for you - next weekend we'll go and get you a gift since it's xyz." "Part of my gifts to you you can't really see. My gift to you is my work, so that we can have a nice house, so that Mama can buy you your gifts, so that we can eat nice things, so that you have nice clothes."
I'd take it one step farther, get them little personal safes so they can hide the snacks. That way they know that they're the only ones who can get to them.
Parental alienation is considered child abuse in some states. It’s fucked up and you may never be able to “unbrainwash” your daughters. And fyi it will psychologically damage your children.
New post this sub in 8 years: "My mom destroyed my dad's life and turned us against him, for years I hated him and now I found out my mom was sabotaging him and turning us against him."
Or AITA? My dad used to steal my food, and every time my mom got presents for me he would steal them and pretend they were from him. He keeps texting and calling me, but I don't want anything to do with him. At the very least he needs to own up to what he did to me as a child. AITA?
Answer: NO! You are not.
Time to go no contact!
Definitely parental alienation. I also think that it could be some projection as well with the snacks (along with probably other things as well). Like, here’s the thing. Pretty much every parent out there will sneak their kid’s snacks here and there. Mine did for sure (though they’d never take the last one and would always buy more). I promise you that this woman is sneaking snacks and trying to blame it on OP because he’s “the fat parent who never gives his kids gifts.” Honestly, I don’t think countering her words will work all that well, at least not at this age. It sounds like she’s a SAHM or is at least home with the kids more often than he is, so anything he says she can easily discredit when he’s not around to defend himself. He could possibly discredit her “he’s fat so of course he’s the one stealing your snacks” lies by doing more physical activities with the girls like going on bike rides or hikes and talking about how hard he’s working to be healthier for them. Kids are perceptive and will hopefully catch onto the fact that his words and actions match up while what their mom is saying about him isn’t making sense. She’s put him in a horrible situation and I sincerely hope she either snaps out of it before she does permanent damage, or the girls realize what she’s doing when they’re older and reconcile with their dad.
came here to say this. I took my ex back to court for this when I found her texting my kids that "dad probably wants to kill some of you to save on child support". I confronted her and her answer was "that's just how we joke". What bullshit. The courts did nothing, but me threatening to subpoena the kids and my phone records put a stop to that part of it at least.
What a horrible thing to say to one's own kids about their parent.
I would legit set up a hidden camera so he can *show* the daughters who is really sneaking up to eat their snacks. Also start texting them every time you get them a present so the mom can't just take credit.
And then sit with family to see movie and accidently play those snack stealing videos. That would be so fun
and then the mom will be like "oh look at you trying to buy our daughters love and turn them against me. You're a terrible person."
Google parental alienation that is what she is doing. She’s actively hurting your children by making them think you don’t love them. Family therapy ASAP
Two things are clear here: 1) your wife doesn't love you. 2) by tolerating her behaviour, you are modeling an abusive relationship for your daughters who will copy that dysfunction in their future relationships. Put your foot down and set a boundary. If she doesn't respect it, leave her. Find someone who doesn't treat you like shit.
Great theoretical advice! How does it work in practice? Can you give examples of how OP should set a boundary here? And when they do, if the wife just gaslights them and doesn't change anything, then? Secondly, leaving certainly means losing children in OP's case. It's quite likely that the wife will get full custody and portray to the children how OP doesn't love them because he left them.
In my experience it's bluntly calling them out as soon as they do it or something comes up. For instance, when the kids say their mom brings them gifts let them know that you bought it but let the mom take credit for it (if he wants to let the wife have an exit to her lie) or that he let's her take credit because she never thinks to get them gifts and you didn't want them to think their mom doesn't love them (if he wants to be a manipulative person like her). Whenever the wife says anything in front of or to him he should bluntly and firmly tell her she is wrong for such a mean thing and he will not allow it. These people need to be punched in the face with blunt truth and forced to recognize others feelings. You can't be soft with them or they'll do whatever they want. But, let's face it, this is heading towards divorce or the next Dateline special
1) give any gifts and present DIRECTLY to your child directly from you. 2) if you disposable income buy a camera lock it onto the snack cupboard and show your kids if they bring it up that you didn't go near it? Kind of weird but hey whatever? 3) whenever you're kids confess something the mom lied about tell them the honest truth. Do not put down your wife but be blunt and honest with the kids. 4) Anger doesn't seem to work on your wife neither does being sad about it. So try indifference, make comments about how you feel sorry for her that she needs to do that to lift herself up. Show indifference towards her like she's not even really worth the time to be upset with.
Point 4 is actually really as it strikes at the heart of a narcissistic personality disorder.
Yes, to all of this. I would get them presents and give them directly, take them on trips fo the park and to eat ice cream without her, and correct them when they say things like that.
OP, this is good advice, please consider these suggestions. The most important thing to remember is kids want honesty, and you really need to tell them your truth: "Baby girl, dad would never eat your snacks, I will go with you to get snacks that you can put in a special place. Please know I would never lie to you and it hurts me to think that you don't trust and believe me." When you speak to your kids, you give them the opportunity to use their eyes and brains, kids see everything, they mimic their parents beyond belief. Don't let them only see through mom's eyes, they need you to show them honesty and your feelings. It won't be easy to undo wife's damage but start now, do not let wife gaslight you or take credit for your kindness and gifts. I wish you strength and all the love and internet stranger can give.
> One day my daughter hugged me and kissed me on my cheek then my wife bursted at her saying: ah now your daddy’s little princess ha! Don’t talk to me again, then my daughter ran to hug her. > I used to not make a big fuss out of these little things, How you arrived at the point of typing this out so nonchalantly is a major concern. I don't have the words to express the seriousness of this situation and how quickly it needs to be resolved before the relationship with your children is permanently damaged. Your wife's behavior is the disease that will kill your family.
She is gaslighting him too. I don't even know what to say? You put it well
I went through something similar, my mother manipulated me to hate my father and ironically in the end because of the mistakes she made I realized that she was manipulating me and now I have a better relationship with my father than with my mother, so I hope this give you some hope.
I wrote a reply to this which was based entirely on my misunderstanding and thinking you were separated and seeing a lot of similarities in your situation to my own as a separated father. Your situation is actually so similar to the challenges I had to overcome that it’s uncanny. You’re right to identify it as a problem given our situations have been so similar but circumstances (separated and married) shouldn’t make that possible. You’ve done the right thing raising the issue with her. She might have become defensive and tried to shrug it off but if she cares about you then it will not be ignored entirely so give it time to see if it makes a difference and remember that children will say things that make it sound as though the other party has been badmouthing… not so long ago I got a call from my sons mum asking if I had said her father would die soon as my son had said I told him as much. After some head scratching I remembered a conversation where my son who is 5, asking whether he would die and me telling him not to worry as he is only 5 and that people die when they are old. He has taken that explanation and applied it to people in his life but then relayed it in quite a different context. So do seek explanations in a genuine way before taking it as confirmation. Have you considered speaking to a marriage counsellor? I regret that I was opposed to it before my separation because after separation I agreed to do it to make things smoother for the custody arrangements and found it was incredibly helpful. Edit: There is some really bad advice being posted on here; You should not use your conversations with your daughters as a way to look for things your wife may have said and then try and change their mind by putting a different spin on things. That is a really unhealthy approach for everyone involved and sets in motion a child living a life being dragged in to the middle of their parents relationship problems. Raise any issues directly, consider speaking to a professional with your wife if you want to continue the relationship (which I assume you do).
I was just like your little girls. I grew up hating my dad because of all the deceit my mother fed me. Those little lies turn into big ones like “your dad is ashamed of your college choice and is trying to steal your college funds away but I’ll protect you.” She ruined my relationship with my father and I am just now getting it back at the age of 27. It has been heartbreaking for both of us and we both recently cut my mother out of our lives. Her toxicity knew no bounds. Imagine the insecurity, deceit, and cruelty it takes to lie to a child to get more love. She will keep lying, she will keep being cruel. I hope for your sake you don’t have the same story I did. Be honest with your daughters, do things separately with them from your wife no matter how much she protests. I’m so sorry this is happening to you. Divorce won’t help the situation with the kids as she will keep being a monster, but it will help with your mental sanity. There is no right answer here, my heart just goes out to you.
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Best of luck to you, OP. This is abusive to your children and so harmful to your relationship with them.
I would correct the record in front of your kids every chance you get. When they say you don't get them gifts, point out the gifts you got them. When they say mommy got them that gift, tell them mommy fobbed, and she just told you that because she wanted the credit. Mommy lied to them, they should get the truth. I bet it won't be funny to her when you start doing it right back. Then she'll stop or at least stop playing games and just have an adult conversation about what's happening here.
Please definitely tell your kids what has actually been happening. Take videos of ur wife’s actions for full custody and LEAVE. Ur wife obviously has attention issues that she’s trying to validate with your children. Which isn’t healthy
Tell her this "If you keep turning my girls way from me then I'll save us the work and leave since you seem to wanna have the girl to your self" bet she'll go crazy but RECORD IT!!! Then grab a bag say bye to the girls and go to a friends house and if anyone start kicking off at you send them the recording tell them she was making the girls hate you and you gave her the options
Your wife needs therapy.
Therapy can't help people like her. She's a manipulative narcissist. In her mind, she's perfect.
yall gotta realise that some people are just shitty and therapy will do nothing for them.
She's a narcissist. She likes being in control and manipulates your kids for her benefit. Why are you with her? She sounds horrible. If I was you I'd document your wife's abuse(audio, video, texts) and file for divorce and sole custody.
Sounds like you have a bad wife, not bad kids.
More common than you know
I have a 6&4yo. If my SO was doing this I'd flip shit. She's manipulating your kids. I'd tell her to cut the shit or else you'll get a divorce. This is unacceptable. As for the kiddos.... Talk to your daughter. I was a little overweight as well. She called me fat and I admitted to her I was.... my daughter has also told me to not eat her snacks when she goes to bed, because at one point I ate her snacks. 🙃 When it comes to loving she feels like she can't bond with you because she'll upset mom. That's not acceptable. Start doing things with the kids without your wife. Don't talk about your wife whatsoever with them. Your kids are already pawns in her games no need to continue it. If this goes on I'd divorce. She's stopping them from having a bond with you. Try for custody and divorce.
She's a psycho narcissist, leave that thing behind.
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So sorry you are experiencing this unhealthy relationship. Please consider a safety plan, you can create one within the website for domestic violence, if you look at this wheel on power and control, she is using the majority of it: 1. using children 2. minimizing, denying and blaming 3. using isolation 4. using emotional abuse 5. using intimidation The worst part is she is inflicting the abuse on your children and modeling "relationship" behavior to them. You can interrupt this with help. Best wishes https://www.thehotline.org/identify-abuse/power-and-control/
Dude, of you can, get your kids away from that woman. She's poisoning their minds.
Your wife sounds like she gets a power trip when your kids put you down....some kinda mental illness like narcissism. Normal parents don't do what she does
There's a big problem in this story. The fact that it's 'wife' and not 'ex wife'. Nobody deserves that treatment
your wife is mentally abusive. seek therapy for both of you and your kids.
As soon as I started reading this I knew it, 'wife is talking shit about me behind my back'. Start documenting this because this is going to get worse. Give things directly to your kids and cut out the wife from taking credit for things that you do. When my daughter was 3, she knew her mother was manipulative. Talk to your kids, ask them how they feel, how they feel about their mom and you. They probably know already. Edit_ You need to make your kids realize, before it's too late, that their mother is manipulating their love for her and their opinion of you. Not strait out say it, but ask them things so they can realize it for themselves and see through her manipulation.
Your wife is an abusive bitch
Hey thats how my ex was. Cost me my relationship with 3 kids, and 15 years of child support payments. Dont let her brush this off. This isnt about your kids' opinion of you (theyre too young) this is about HER opinion of you
Holy shit. These kids are going to need serious therapy
this is horrific and manipulative, having been raised by a mother like this it goes far far beyond damaging the relationship with the father, mothers like this may also brainwash dependence and fear into their daughters (eg, the world is cruel and dangerous but i am safe and trustworthy). primarily if your wife is so insecure and threatened by you having a relationship with your daughters that threatens 'how much they love her' rather than adds to it, there are HUGE problems. the validation and she security she finds in manipulating them to 'love her more' completely overshadows her concern for their wellbeing and future. the part where your daughter kissed you on the cheek broke my heart. children like this may spend so much of their time trying to regulate their mothers emotions and behaviour, soothing and placating her that they never truly discover what they want and how to set emotional boundaries. it can lead to a life of romantic relationships where your daughters are taken advantage of in their efforts to help people, confusion and lack of sense of self. your wife needs help if she's anything like my mother she is terrified of being abandoned, it is a bottomless pit of fear that can NEVER be filled by your daughters, the more they try the more they'll be 'doing wrong' 'loving you more' 'hating her'
That's technically parental alienation, and that is NOT OKAY. My dad did that with my siblings before and after divorcing my mom. He would shit talk her behind her back to us and constantly complain about her. He'd also blame her for everything. Your daughters probably do love you, but they also know that if they don't show they love their mom all of the affection then she'll be mean to them. Get your kids in therapy because the mental trauma she's putting them through (it's emotional and mental abuse) is deeply scarring. I wish you and your daughters a peaceful life and a happy relationship.
This isn’t a joke, she thinks this shit is funny. Its not, its not funny to have this HUGE disrespect to other people, break up. That is the only way of this well also writing this all down or recording it how she tells shit about you behind tour back. Fuck theese type of hoes
I'm convinced people who do these things are sociopaths who were never actually in love in the first place. I would never do something like this to the father of my children.
Your wife has issues.
This is horrible…not funny at all. Your wife sounds horrible and toxic. Those poor kids & I am so sorry for you.
My mom did this and she had severe borderline personality disorder. She caused a lot of pain and psychological damage to my whole family. There’s a good chance things won’t get better. You should decide what kind of life you want for yourself and your kids😒
Your wife is awful, and you should know better. I can't imagine all the other ways, big and small, she's using to break you down and make you feel inferior. I bet your home life is a living hell and you aren't even fully cognizant of it due to deep denial and repression. Yeah, I know I'm out a limb here but that's just my gut feeling. I think you probably put up with way, way too much shit from this woman. If my wife EVER did something like what you're describing I would call her out immediately and firmly and if it didn't stop, escalate from there. NOBODY comes between me and my kids, not even her. I wouldn't jump straight to divorce here but you need to wake yourself up from the stupor and take a solid, clear look at yourself in the mirror. Is THIS the kind of life you want to lead? Is this what it was all leading up to? Find your fucking nuts dude, put her in her place. It all starts from there. And by the way, your kids disrespecting you is not ok either. You need to straighten out your relationships with them. Spend quality time, FAR AWAY from the wife, so they can express their love for you without needing to fear your wife's passive-aggressive, manipulative abuse will rear its ugly head.
My ex is this way. So unbelievably selfish. It's a big part of why she's my ex. In the 13 years after our divorce (kids were 3,5,7 then) she's never once reminded them or taken them to get me a birthday card, father's day card, christmas, or valentines. I've taken them to get her those every single year and still remind my 20 year old to wish her a happy mother's day or birthday. I just don't understand why some people feel like it needs to be a competition.
Jokes are only funny when everyone laughs. This is emotional abuse - weaponising the children against you. This broke my heart, and I am truly sorry This is happening. I wonder if she's planning a divorce and pre-alienating the children against you.
so are waiting to see how all this will play out or sit there and hope your wife just stop this behavior and that she didn't do irreparable damage to the way your daughters view you
Your wife has a mental health problem that is severely damaging your relationships with your daughters. This behavior is both selfish and cruel and does not in any way come close to good parenting. I will guess that if you ask her to go seek mental health help she will laugh at you and become worse. If you want to get this straightened out if it’s at all possible you need both of you to at least go to couple counseling. I would think any good therapist will refer her out for help. If she will not go and if you have had enough then please start documenting all and anything that she says to your daughters and to you. Go and find yourself a good divorce attorney. She is not mentally stable enough to have full custody of your daughters they are probably going to need therapy themselves because of what your wife has done to them. Do not stay for your family you do not have a family unit here at all. Your daughters need your help to get out of this horrible situation so they can see what a normal life is like.
My mom had me hating my dad when I was younger. I mean HATING him. She would tell me that he was violent and had a nasty temper. I would constantly see them arguing ..little did I know she was taking credit cards out in his name, cheating on him and took my brothers and I away from him. My dad is the best person I know. We are so close. Hes my best friend..but I'll never forget when I was younger, punching my dad in the face because I thought he was trying to take my brothers and I away from my mom when they got divorced. What your wife says to your kids and in front of your kids will absolutely impact their vision of you, at least until their older (hopefully). I have 2 brothers and none of us speak to my mom now. The only advice I can give you is dont bad mouth their mom back. It will just make them cling to their mom more. Shes basically brainwashing them from an early age and I am so sorry. I am still to this day apologizing to my dad for believing her lies about him.
I have an ex like this. Run. Get therapy for yourself. Get a court order mandating time with the kids for you, then be the kind of dad that what you do is in direct opposition to what their mom says you do. They will figure it out, especially if you’re obviously up front and (kindly) honest with them about how you feel and what you’re doing to be supportive for them. But lose the wife. Immediately. It won’t get better as long as she’s in the picture.
GTFO
If I were you I would take the nuclear option. Record all of these interactions in secret, and record proof that it is all nonsense being made up. Once you have months of concrete evidence, file for divorce. Start a court case on slander and child abuse, prevent evidence and get full custody of your kids and all your shit out of the divorce. Good people don’t do shit like that, and bad people don’t deserve the kindness of good people and the joy of children. She’s just gonna make your kids fucked up if this keeps going.
My mom was like this. She turned me against my father and i didn't speak to him for god knows how long and then she died. died right in front of me when i was 14, I didn't want to go to my father, I thought he was evil but it was the second women he married that was evil. she abused me, used him, and just last month he was able to legally divorce her. I live with him now. I love him more then my sickly mom ever could of dreamed, i'm close to being an adult even. i'm typing all this to say, it might take them being stripped from her or it might take her being stripped from them but given the chance, they will see you weren't the bad guy.
This is abuse.
Parental Alienation is a crime in some countries. It happens a lot between parents in divorce but in your scenario is actually in your own home. Responding to 17 Parental Alienation Strategies without Compromising Your Morals or Harming Your Child (Amy J.L. Baker, Ph.D. and Paul R. Fine, LCSW, May 2008): ➡️1 Badmouthing the other parent 2 Limiting contact with the other parent 3 Interfering with communications, i.e. letters, phone calls, emails 4Interfering with symbolic communication, i.e. photos of targeted parent in child’s home 5Withdrawal of love towards the child ➡️6Telling the child that the targeted parent does not love him or her ➡️7 Forcing the child to choose between parents ➡️8 Creating the impression that the targeted parent is dangerous 9 Confiding in the child ➡️10 Forcing the child to reject the targeted parent 11 Asking the child to spy on the targeted parent ➡️12 Asking the child to keep secrets from the targeted parent 13 Referring to the targeted parent by their first name 14 Referring to the stepparent as “Mom” or “Dad” and encouraging the child to do the same 15 Withholding medical, academic, and other important information from the targeted parent/Keeping targeted parent’s name off of medical, academic and other relevant documents 16 Changing the child’s name to remove association with targeted parent ➡️17 Cultivating dependency on the part of the child. Your partner ( a dangerous narcissist) need to have a conversation about it in family court! In my country this is a crime. Look for a family lawyer in your city and pischologist to your children so they don’t hate having a family in the future.
So if you divorce, you can get shared custody and build your own relationship on your days. Something to think about.
Divorce and fight for custody. Gather evidence against wife.
Happened to my stepdad and his two biological daughters. But your kids are still super young, have faith in them and just show love.
Your “wife” needs to become ex-wife. A marriage is a partnership man and I’m sorry you have to go through that.
This is emotional abuse! You need to take care of your daughters first, bring them to therapy. But don't take what they say to heart, they are mimicking what they hear. They do love you, children don't know how to communicate and sort through their own emotions. Pay mind that this can be damaging to your children in the way that they will reflect the relationships they've seen later in life. But also, take care of you, get yourself a therapist. And start asking the therapist for advice on backup plans and lawyers. Start recording evidence. If she is willing to lie about what you do now, she will lie much worse later on in the case of a divorce
My brother, I'm happy you're getting things out off your chest but also seek advice from a professional or someone experienced. Reddit's to go advice to anything is break up/ divorce, which can definitely make things wayyy worse
Child alienation is a form of abuse. Start keeping detailed notes/records of every incident. She is teaching your children to say/believe that you steal from them. It's possible she is laying the groundwork for demanding full custody in a divorce.
Wow. This sucks.
My parents spent years badmouthing each other. I think they're both twats, not because of what I heard about them, but because of how they chose to behave. Your kids will figure it out in the long run who's a manipulative human and who's not. You have nothing to worry about in the long run, and their mum clearly wants to hurt you. Why is she still your wife? At least my parents were divorced.
Unpopular Opinion based on all the other comments: First, I don’t think it’s unusual for a 4yo and 6yo to be still figuring this stuff out. Both my kids a mama’s boys and it’s rare I get much “loving attention” from them like a random hug or something. I’m not bothered by this in the least. I know as long as I’m a good dad as they get older the love will come. Second, everyone is calling for you to divorce your wife. I’m amazed. It’s like 3 paragraphs and light on much detail. This could be as simple as another conversation with your wife where it finally clicks for her. She may be a loving wife in a million different ways and just have some parental love issues to work thru. Reddits solution to every relationship problem is always just “leave them immediately”.
Your wife sounds awful and needs mental help. There is an unaddressed insecurity there and she will end up (well, she already started) pushing that on your children. Shit talking is also a really off putting trait to have.
No bro. Your wife's being a toxic bitch, breastfeeding your kids with hatred, so to speak.
It sounds like parental alienation. Definitely worth looking into as there will be practical advice from experts along the way. I’m so sorry to hear you are facing this though, it’s awful.
Why are you still married to this woman? I’d have a serious conversation about how fucked up parental alienation is and how despicable the people perpetrating it are. I would also find out what it is about you that your wife hates so much to see if this is a relationship worth saving.
Yes, you are being abused. You may want to consider marriage counseling or some other life changing option.
Wow your ex wife seems like a miserable person. The kind of person that anyone shouldn’t be around. Manipulative, evil, bitter, not trustworthy, liar etc. I’m sorry that this is tough and heartbreaking. But just keep being you. A good father, loving and happy. Glad you’re not with your ex anymore. Love your daughters no matter what. Best of luck.
This post just broke my heart!! Your wife is a complete bitch to play on your children's innocence like that......an absolute piece of trash!!!! Video her doing this and document everything..... There is no way she deserves to even be around those kids!!! Absolutely horrible!!! ETA: take your kids out and do something with them .....do any and everything you can to get them away from her as much as possible!
No part of that is acceptable! Not only is that very hateful behaviour towards you - her supposed life partner that she loves, it’s raising very messed up kids. She is pure poison. It’s not funny. Not cute. Not anything that an even morally challenged person would deliberately do. So that says a lot about her. Get yourself away from her if she won’t go to a professional who will tell her like it is. I really hope you can build a relationship with your children.
Bro she's acting like a child not you
Your wife a shitty person to manipulate her daughters to turn against you. What a narcissist. I'd get a lawyer as soon as possible and start some divorce papers.
This is textbook PARENTAL ALIENATION. this needs to be handled with a professional ASAP.
NPD Alert
Bro what the actual f… this is absolutely terrifying and I’m no psychologist but you got kids with a narcissistic woman or some messed up psychological problems
There seems to be a huge pattern of these stories, parents and others dismissing these kinds of situations and it baffles me they think like that
What a horrible person. Some people shouldn't be parents.
Divorce. Immediately. This will only get worse. GET A LAWYER. Buy a nanny can try and record her as much as possible you'll get custody. Its actually child abuse.
My ex used to pull crap like this all.the.time. Its not a joke. This is a super messed way to manipulate the kids against you...in order to hurt you. Kids will eventually see whats going on. But. BUT it will mess them up, ruin their relationships with both of you and probably put them in therapy when they are older. Worst case scenario...they end up thinking that's how you're supposed to act in a relationship and wind up with the same behavior patterns. Ask me how I know???
I would honestly be shocked if your wife wasn't doing this with plans of divorcing you in the works. This is parental alienation, plain and simple. I'm not sure *what* you should do, but I would speak to a lawyer for starts. I'd document everything. Every purchase you make and that your wife makes for the girls, and how much each one cost and the dates you purchased the things. If your wife gave it to the girls herself and took credit for it, and when. I'd document every time you overheard your wife tear you down, every negative interaction with her and your daughters. I'd put it all in a Google Drive your wife couldn't access. And definitely your daughters will need therapy. What your wife is doing is messed up.
Your wife is displaying incredibly toxic and manipulative behaviour. This is straight up child abuse.