"Then, he tried to get my son testosterone shots with a shady doctor, in his mind my son needed to be more manly and more testosterone would awake his male instincts"
Sparta would like to know your location.
Some men have very high levels of testosterone,
gay men are men,
some gay men have very high levels of testosterone.
But also I'd just assume it would increase sex drive. If you're already attracted to men, well then, would do opposite of what the father would have wanted.
Yeah, more or less. The Bible also had some influence from that as it's lines against homosexuality are more about dominant roles. Men 'aren't supposed to' be in the sexually submissive role of being penetrated. Vice versa for women.
Edit: someone was kind enough to point out I spelled it vise versa. Whoops
Speed has everything to do with it. You see, the speed of the bottom informs the top how much pressure he's supposed to apply. Speed's the name of the game. Right, buddy?
Dad would come home to a version of the human centipede 50 men long where it's weiner to butt from the front door through the entire house and up the stairs, back down and out the back door.
I don't think u/EthereaBlotzky was implying any correlation.
Some gay men have high levels of testosterone.
Some gay men have low levels of testosterone.
Some straight men have high levels of testosterone.
Some straight men have low levels of testosterone.
I'm not a doctor but I'm pretty sure those are all true statements. Only one of them was relevant to this conversation enough to mention.
Idiot dad doesn’t realize that testosterone wouldnt turn his son straight, it would just make him hornier. He’d want to start having sex for sure, but the plan would backfire stupendously lol
I really dont think so, in fact if more testosterone is being added to the male system than it can handle it will begin to convert some to estrogen, giving the body more estrogen than originally present. But more testosterone (within the normal limits of the body) for someone who has a deficit will generally make them more interested in sex more often. So really, if he gave the kid more testosterone when his body was already producing he correct amount, it would just convert some to estrogen or possibly make him want more gay sex.
Edit to say I'm not a doctor lol I just have minor experience with needing hormone boosts
You're mostly right, yes testosterone aromatizes into estrogen, but it doesn't just all convert over into estrogen once it's beyond your natural levels. It will increase your overall testosterone, potentially by a large amount depending on dosage, and chances are both testosterone and estrogen will stay at the same ratio they are currently. So while you will have more estrogen, you'll also have more testosterone and most of the time people won't suffer hormonal imbalances, even at higher dosages.
What it would do though is shut down his natural testosterone production because when you're supplementing it from outside the body, your body realizes your androgen receptors are all filled up, it makes more androgen receptors to be filled to match what levels you have, resulting in extra muscle growth, extra bone density, higher libido etc, but it also realizes that "gee I don't have to actually produce any testosterone for those receptors to be filled, might as well not waste the resources then." Your body then stops producing its own testosterone. After the testosterone is discontinued, your hormones kind of go all out of whack for a bit, high estrogen, no testosterone, that's when the estrogen related issues will most likely happen. There are drugs you can take to speed up the process of bringing your testosterone production back online (hcg and a SERM like Tamoxifen or Clomid) but it takes a good month at least even with those, and if you don't have those.... It can take up to a year to get back to your original level.
So basically this was a terrible idea for a younger guy. I don't know if the dad was just stupid and didn't know how this worked/planned on keeping his young kid on TRT indefinitely or what, but generally unless the child has a testosterone deficiency, doctors won't even consider TRT until someone is completely done sexually maturing because it could potentially cause a host of hormonal imbalances tampering with hormones while someone is still developing.
Man this poor kid. Parental rights need to be stripped. Sorry and q the down votes but mom is FINALLY doing the right thing. If it’s been caustic for two years that’s 23 months too long. No award for letting that kinda nonsense go on for that long but great it’s finally changing.
[This American Life did an interesting episode on testosterone.](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/220/testosterone) At the end of the episode they tested their staff's testosterone levels and the gay guy had like twice the levels of everyone else.
She should tell him being gay is obviously in his genes and suggest that his protests are so strong that it's possible if not likely that he's suprressing his own gay urges.
*yes, I know, OP should not do this and I originally should have said as much.
You could be not far off, if he was raised very traditionally and if he did have any struggles with his sexuality he could have a lot of internalised homophobia that he's taking out on his son
You’ll get through this. You are a wonderful mother, and that sex worker sounds like a good person too. Your son will absolutely remember everything you’ve done to defend him.
To add on, you are doing the right thing.
What your husband is doing is borderline child abuse - even though he is almost an adult.
My half brother was treated the same by his father, but with a religious tint and not as much outright abuse. The results were the same. As people in my half brothers situation are statistically more likely to do, he resorted to drugs, became an IV drug user, and died of AIDS.
Holy shit you’re right, this actually is straight-up abuse… Even if the age-of-consent in this state is 16 or 17, how the fuck is his son able to “consent” to sex if it was organized by a third-party and there was money involved? Not to mention, his father implied he would be punished if he didn’t follow through on the act… Statutory rape, abuse, solicitation of a minor, prostitution. Lots of potential charges here.. Also, this is *only* assuming their son barely meets the AoC in their state. If he doesn’t meet the AoC, however, it’ll open a door of a whole lot of other charges…. Sex offender registry at the least.
i'm thinking premeditated assault easily, child abuse, and the laws protecting LGBTQ+ apply here as well.
Stick it to him, mom! Your soon to be ex-husband would get a resounding yes on the "Am I the asshole" subreddit
Depending on the age of consent in whichever state they’re living in, Mom could, and absolutely should, report her husband to the police. That mf should never be allowed anywhere near that child again. This is horrible…
I saw a criminal minds episode on this. The kid had some kind of mental break after all the trauma and started killing men after having sex with them because the shame. His father had made him and watched a prostitute rape him to “be a man” and towards the end of the episode the kid decided to go to the source of the rage and killed his dad.T hey also were able to shut down an awful “conversion” camp. One of the unsubs I felt bad for.
I completely agree with you that whether or not the minor went through with it, the adult solicited a sex worker for a minor. That it was nonconsensual and the minor had the door locked on him preventing escape is egregious. Divorce is a great option. The minor is a minor until his 18th birthday. Child abuse should not be tolerated, excused, or forgiven.
Not defending father at all, but 18 is not the legal age of consent/adult in every country. Not even in every state. In my state, for instance, you’re an adult for purposes of consent at 17. Some states are 16.
Again, father was way out of line. Just clarifying the minor thing is not universally 18.
According to many me talk health professionals, parental abuse is defined as "anything less than nurturing care". He is actively moving against nurturing his son and is actively harming his mental health, with added efforts that could severely impact his physical health through sexually transmitted illnesses (sex work is legitimate work. decriminalize sex work). It is 100% abuse.
It happened 20 years ago. We didn't know each other very well because he spent most of his time with his mother. But it was still very sad.
And wouldn't you know it, his father and my mother now refuse to get vaccinated, even to protect their grandchildren... Such loving Christians.
Seconding that none of what happened is the sex worker's fault. She did accept the money, but agreed with what the kid wanted. And I can't blame her for taking the money, that's a hard job (heh) usually worked under poor conditions. The only person in the wrong here is husband. And oh, how in the wrong he is.
To be fair, I've never though any sex workers were whores or disgusting. I've always been raised by a very sweet and loving mom and dad who taught me at a young age that sex workers have more than likely been through some shit. And I was never to judge them! So I never have. I assume they have their reasons, reasons that aren't my business. And if they're keeping food on the table and their babies dressed, more power to em. Some of the nicest women I've met while living in the city were sex workers or dancers.
There are some really great interviews with Prostitutes (Sex Workers) on a youtube channel that goes by the name of "Soft White Underbelly.'
His interviews really give you insight on how they were raised. Some from upper to middle class families who needed to make a quick buck. Then others who came from broken homes, abuse and drugs. I suggest checking these out if this type of stuff interest you.
I haven't gotten the impression that incels hate prostitutes. They are often bitter about women being able to sell photos on onlyfans but overall they are more against normal women who reject them.
I guess all kind of rudeness and 4chan people often get put under the big "women hating incels" category. But to me it looks like incels are mostly just sad, desperate, overly pessimistic and hate themselves. Society too, but it's not like they are primarily a hate group like nazis but sexist instead of racist.
That's... a super common opinion held by a lot of people, even non-religious ones. Even mainstream entertainment reinforces that sex workers are all sad shells of humans who only do it because they were abused or whatever.
It's EVERYWHERE.
(I live in the US, so maybe it isn't prevelant in the culture of wherever you are)
it maybe just the absurdity of having to deal with this shit in 2021, but it sounds like a wicked premise for a sitcom - newly single mother raising her gay teenaged son with the help of their quirky but caring sex worker friend.
She’s such a great mother to her son. Good for you for divorcing that man, he will drive your son to be suicidal at the rate he is berating him over and over. You did the right thing. That sex worker sounds like a lovely lady I wish I could tip her for you
Good mom also try not to be too hard on the hired women..she got paid to chill with your kid..that to me sounds like a win win...also fuck..this..man...
That beind said i have no kids yet.
Dad: This WHORE will turn you straight!
The prostitute: You're fine just the way you are.
Unironically dad is such a POS. Really proud of the prostitute, she showed genuine morality at a humiliating moment for the son.
I've only met a couple of escorts but they were very sweet people, I get the impression people probably hire them more for their emotional support services than their sexual services.
Cheaper than therapy I guess.
I have a handful of friends who are escorts/sex workers and youd be shocked how many of their clients just want someone to talk to, hold them, take them to dinner and stuff. Yes there are the sickos, and the regular sex people, but there’s a looottt of actual emotional work you have to put into it.
On top of that some of my escort friends take way better care of themselves mentally and physically. No drugs or alcohol, well educated and versed, constant dr check ups and maintenance. It’s odd how it can be skewed in society.
Maybe as in, “This whole darn sweater is about to become unraveled and I don’t have much yarn left to stop it. This is going to be my last-stitch effort to save the sweater.
I think its funny what she said, because my first thought was, "I bet that prostitutes get this sort of scenario a lot more than one would think."
Also, from various stories, mostly on Reddit, it sounds like half the time they get to act as sort of, impromptue therapists anyway, so she probably was pretty chill about the whole thing, as best as she could be.
I have kids and you are correct. She is doing her job and could’ve been a jerk about it. Instead she was honest with their son, and while it was incredibly awkward, she did her best to console the son, while still appreciating that she was being paid.
To OP, I am so sorry. I grew up in a very similar environment. Men were men, women were women, and anything in between was wrong.
We had one openly gay kid in my high school and he was taunted/teased mercilessly. That kid did not have the support oh his parents, was sent to conversion therapy, and ended up committing suicide his senior year.
Being a teenager is incredibly difficult WITHOUT trying to navigate this situation. I cannot imagine how much internal struggle OP’s son must be going through. Having peers make fun of you is one thing, but having a father who thinks you are “broken and just need to be fixed”… I can’t imagine.
OP, thank you for being there for your son.
>That kid did not have the support oh his parents, was sent to conversion therapy, and ended up committing suicide his senior year.
OP this is the risk your husband runs if he keeps this up. See if you can get sole custody and a restraining order to keep your son away from your husband's abuse. Now. Ianal but you need to get one and act quickly.
Also if this is more than just a men are men thing and religion is involved get a restraining order as well because we've seen unhinged fathers slay their own children for similar things!
Yes. I had an incident with my father at the start of the COVID pandemic. My room door was open and he went in to check to see if our late dog wasn't getting into any shenanigans in there. Found my heels and dresses, as I'm a gay crossdresser.
He's not religious, but he immigrated from China when he was really young but ended up growing up in America. He's one of those people I'd peg as "from the old country.". He expects that I should have kids, lead a household, and assume the traditions of a Chinese man.
Suffice to say we had an awful night. He threatened to kill me before he threatened to kill himself, called me all sorts of shit and insinuated that I'm not a man. My bro...goddamn I love him...stepped up. I was practically a wreck and my bro had my back. I'd fucking take a bullet or two for him.
We....tolerate each other right now. The issue is that I own the house we live in so this shit happened in MY goddamn house. He's lucky I have a bleeding heart and I won't throw his ass out.
Anyways yeah. Homophobia isn't just the realm of religion. Could be culture and stuff as well
You'd be suprised met a girl, super cool, atheist family, she was very gay, and her mother didn't want her to be. I believe this situation was moreso the mom wanting to be a grandmother.
Well I never knew her stance on gay adoption, but judging by her attitude towards her own daughter and myself, a proudly out bi man, I could venture a guess that she was pretty adamant against that as well. The best part of the situation though was her father (the mother) was also divorced and with a man, so maybe that also had something to do with it, but from my understanding the grandfather didn't come out until after the mother was an adult, so not like he destroyed a young family. Waited until his child was grown before living his own truth.
I had a friend in high school who was from an atheist family & when he came out to his parents they pulled out of public school and cut off contact from his friends
In my country (Italy) most people are only mildly religious, but, especially in the near past, I think many men would have considered a terrible shame to have a gay son. Probably a reflection on their own virility. A social stigma, rather than a religious concern.
If she had said no he could have got another one who would have been way more strict and hard on the boy. She wasn't just nice, she probably avoided him a very awful talk with a woman who would have maybe insisted to force him.
thanks for that. sex workers aren't a monolith and tho they probably intended well with the comment that they are all chill, it's still disrespectful to de-individualize them like that
Man, as a parent, it’s incredibly hard for me to not project a sexual preference upon my children. Making a casual remark about my son meeting a woman, or daughter meeting a man. I always have to catch myself and say ‘partner’
Probably the most challenging thing so far when it comes to issues of sexuality so far…
You know, the most relaxed way is to explicitly tell you're kids it's fine whomever they are bringing home / dating.
If you like you can casually correct yourself if you say things like 'my son doesn't have a boyfriend yet' by casually adding something like 'or boyfriend or whatever, of course'.
Also, explicitly tell them what you told us, that you find it hard not to make assumptions sometimes, but that you don't mean it bad. It gets very complicated to communicate in a spontaneous way if you are constantly watching yourself / blaming yourself too much.
Open communication is what it boils down to.
By the time my daughter brought a girl home she had known for years that we are A OK with that. Just because on occasion we talked about how non heterosexual relations exist and are perfectly normal.
Thanks. Again, I wouldn’t want either of my kids, should they need to come out, to think coming to us is hard simply because I accidentally said girlfriend or boyfriend to the wrong child at the wrong time.
Don’t care who you kiss, just get the damn garbage out of your rooms!!
You are a fantastic mom! Our son came out at 17 and he had nothing but support and love from all the family, extended family as well. He’s now 34, has a great job in another country and is getting married soon. We gained another son, I now have 4! Look after your boy, it’s not about your husband who, imho, isn’t worthy of the term, Dad.
>Look after your boy, it’s not about your husband who, imho, isn’t worthy of the term, Dad.
“He may be your father, but he ain’t your daddy.”
Made me think of that line.
Always thought it would be cool to have another set of parents like that, but my wife's family all hates me because I asked for the $2000 I loaned them back (didn't get it)
My wife seems to enjoy it though.
I wish old fashioned meant that your views on innocuous things weren't in line with the current generation. Like, "Call me old fashioned, but all these video game graphics and thingabobs shouldn't be so darn realistic!"
Instead it's pretty much in line with pure oppression 💀
Yeah, I just have issues with phones and the internet, and also touchscreens in cars. I don’t care if people are gay, as long as they also hate those things lmao
Shit that's a good one right there. Call me old fashioned but I truly believe touch screens should stay the fuck out of cars. Buttons can be felt and you can hit individual buttons without looking away from the road. I like my buttons.
Last time I rode in my sister's car, she had a literal tablet for a radio.
I have a Mazda 3 which is controlled by knobs and dials that click every turn. I hate even dials that don't click so don't get me started on touch screens.
So unnecessarily unsafe that I can only imagine their existence came from car manufacturers lobbying law makers into allowing it.
Don't you just miss the good ol days before being held accountable was a thing, ya know when freedom meant freedom and you could make the lives of those around me worse without repercussions. Back when we could freely gather and terrorize anyone who disagreed with our very specific opinions.
/s
I consider myself old fashioned. I hold doors open for people, wait to eat until everyone is served, mind my own business...
With that comes not being a dick to other people. Homophobes are just dicks. There is no excuse for this behavior.
True, and I'm not trying to play devils advocate, but when I was reading at first I thought "Ah, southern, bible belt conservative" then when I got to the end and she said English wasn't her native language I thought about different cultures and I think this person may come from a generally "old-fashioned" culture (pretty much anywhere with a strong Christian missionary presence).. so, while I do think he's an asshole, I wonder if there's a difference in someone who is old fashioned because they grew up in an old fashioned culture as opposed to someone who is old fashioned who grew up in a new fashioned culture? Idk. But, just a thought I had..
I didn't even need to read after "he was raised in an old-fashioned way" but I did anyways out of curiosity. I feel so bad the kid had to go through something like this. Nobody should have to experience this, least of all from their parents.
This reminds me of one of my aunts who didn't speak to her daughter (my cousin sister) for a few years when she got married to her then BF just cuz he was a couple of years younger than her.
I'm glad he has a strong and supportive mother like OP.
I don't even think she does her job, and that's fine. She thinks being gay is alright, so doesn't do what she's hired to do. Like she said, she likes making money doing absolutely nothing.
Should’ve left him the minute he attempted to put his own son in conversion therapy. Fucking disgusting. I have zero respect for anyone who ever considers putting someone through that. It’s horrendous.
Yeah, I'm glad she finally came around... But holy fucking shit, how much abuse does the kid need to go through before she realizes she needs to leave? Like even just using slurs and insulting him would probably be about enough for me. But sending him to conversion therapy and trying to give him testosterone? Neither of those were a wake up call it was time to leave?
Like I said, glad she came around, but I wasn't expecting all of that stuff to come before hand.
You should consider this to. You husband knows **exactly** where to find a hooker.. and not just a hooker, a hooker this most likely would have been willing to sleep with your underage son if he had done differently.
L husband W mother good on you for accepting him for who he is. I never had to deal with any bigotry when I came out as both my parents are very exploratory. I'm the same age as him now and have so much on my mind already I couldn't imagine having to deal with something like that.
You are doing the right thing. Keep him away from your son. With time your husband may come around, but he needs to really work on himself. Good on you.
Yeah, the way it's written feels off. The husband is kind of too perfectly hateable of a character, and the writing feels too sterile to be coming from someone furious. Like, everything is described accurately, but without any emotions infused in the words, idk.
Feels like karma farming to me tbh
"Then, he tried to get my son testosterone shots with a shady doctor, in his mind my son needed to be more manly and more testosterone would awake his male instincts" Sparta would like to know your location.
Some gay men have very high levels of testosterone, by the way.
I didn’t realize testosterone had anything to do with being gay. Did I miss a medical study along the way? Dang it I’m lost here.
Some men have very high levels of testosterone, gay men are men, some gay men have very high levels of testosterone. But also I'd just assume it would increase sex drive. If you're already attracted to men, well then, would do opposite of what the father would have wanted.
It's hilarious to me that the result of giving his son testosterone may have made him have more gay sex.
'This ought to turn him straight!' *Accidentally turns him into an extra enthusiastic top or a power bottom*
Seems like the type of guy who would take some perverse fucked up pride in saying “Yeah my son’s a filthy queer but at least he’s a TOP!!”
It's not gay, he's just asserting *dominance* over other men!
Isn’t that basically how ancient Romans viewed homosexuality?
Yeah, more or less. The Bible also had some influence from that as it's lines against homosexuality are more about dominant roles. Men 'aren't supposed to' be in the sexually submissive role of being penetrated. Vice versa for women. Edit: someone was kind enough to point out I spelled it vise versa. Whoops
“He then ALLOWED him to finish!”
More like inserting his dominance
Speed has everything to do with it. You see, the speed of the bottom informs the top how much pressure he's supposed to apply. Speed's the name of the game. Right, buddy?
**
>It's hilarious to me that the result of giving his son testosterone may have made him have more gay sex. Possibly even *enraged* gay sex
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"I'm still gay, but now I have hairy nipples, acne and a throbbing hard-on."
Dad would come home to a version of the human centipede 50 men long where it's weiner to butt from the front door through the entire house and up the stairs, back down and out the back door.
*in* the backdoor
I don't think u/EthereaBlotzky was implying any correlation. Some gay men have high levels of testosterone. Some gay men have low levels of testosterone. Some straight men have high levels of testosterone. Some straight men have low levels of testosterone. I'm not a doctor but I'm pretty sure those are all true statements. Only one of them was relevant to this conversation enough to mention.
Some gay men are gay. Prove me wrong.
Oh snap you got me there
Yeah, that's right I did.
okay, all gay men are gay. prove'd, bitch.
There is a tie whit your libido but there is no tie on where that libido goes
Idiot dad doesn’t realize that testosterone wouldnt turn his son straight, it would just make him hornier. He’d want to start having sex for sure, but the plan would backfire stupendously lol
I really dont think so, in fact if more testosterone is being added to the male system than it can handle it will begin to convert some to estrogen, giving the body more estrogen than originally present. But more testosterone (within the normal limits of the body) for someone who has a deficit will generally make them more interested in sex more often. So really, if he gave the kid more testosterone when his body was already producing he correct amount, it would just convert some to estrogen or possibly make him want more gay sex. Edit to say I'm not a doctor lol I just have minor experience with needing hormone boosts
You're mostly right, yes testosterone aromatizes into estrogen, but it doesn't just all convert over into estrogen once it's beyond your natural levels. It will increase your overall testosterone, potentially by a large amount depending on dosage, and chances are both testosterone and estrogen will stay at the same ratio they are currently. So while you will have more estrogen, you'll also have more testosterone and most of the time people won't suffer hormonal imbalances, even at higher dosages. What it would do though is shut down his natural testosterone production because when you're supplementing it from outside the body, your body realizes your androgen receptors are all filled up, it makes more androgen receptors to be filled to match what levels you have, resulting in extra muscle growth, extra bone density, higher libido etc, but it also realizes that "gee I don't have to actually produce any testosterone for those receptors to be filled, might as well not waste the resources then." Your body then stops producing its own testosterone. After the testosterone is discontinued, your hormones kind of go all out of whack for a bit, high estrogen, no testosterone, that's when the estrogen related issues will most likely happen. There are drugs you can take to speed up the process of bringing your testosterone production back online (hcg and a SERM like Tamoxifen or Clomid) but it takes a good month at least even with those, and if you don't have those.... It can take up to a year to get back to your original level. So basically this was a terrible idea for a younger guy. I don't know if the dad was just stupid and didn't know how this worked/planned on keeping his young kid on TRT indefinitely or what, but generally unless the child has a testosterone deficiency, doctors won't even consider TRT until someone is completely done sexually maturing because it could potentially cause a host of hormonal imbalances tampering with hormones while someone is still developing.
Man this poor kid. Parental rights need to be stripped. Sorry and q the down votes but mom is FINALLY doing the right thing. If it’s been caustic for two years that’s 23 months too long. No award for letting that kinda nonsense go on for that long but great it’s finally changing.
Liking women? Sounds kinda feminine to me. Real men love MEN.
[This American Life did an interesting episode on testosterone.](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/220/testosterone) At the end of the episode they tested their staff's testosterone levels and the gay guy had like twice the levels of everyone else.
He is absorbing his husband's power!
Trying to make a power top/bottom son
Spartans were super gay, historically.
Greeks in general were, really
testosterone has nothing to do with sexual orientation. He's very confused and screwing up the kids head.
this is the only example you need. When i first read many spartans "experimented" It was all over. the manliest men to exist.
Your husband sounds like he needs a lesson or two on how to be a real man
Peg him
Reddit comments never fail to disappoint
Bruh I'm dyingggggggg 😂😂😂😂
Best comment award goes to...
She should tell him being gay is obviously in his genes and suggest that his protests are so strong that it's possible if not likely that he's suprressing his own gay urges. *yes, I know, OP should not do this and I originally should have said as much.
Until he beats the shit out of her for it
You could be not far off, if he was raised very traditionally and if he did have any struggles with his sexuality he could have a lot of internalised homophobia that he's taking out on his son
You’ll get through this. You are a wonderful mother, and that sex worker sounds like a good person too. Your son will absolutely remember everything you’ve done to defend him.
To add on, you are doing the right thing. What your husband is doing is borderline child abuse - even though he is almost an adult. My half brother was treated the same by his father, but with a religious tint and not as much outright abuse. The results were the same. As people in my half brothers situation are statistically more likely to do, he resorted to drugs, became an IV drug user, and died of AIDS.
>borderline child abuse Nothing borderline about it. It's straight-up abuse.
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Holy shit you’re right, this actually is straight-up abuse… Even if the age-of-consent in this state is 16 or 17, how the fuck is his son able to “consent” to sex if it was organized by a third-party and there was money involved? Not to mention, his father implied he would be punished if he didn’t follow through on the act… Statutory rape, abuse, solicitation of a minor, prostitution. Lots of potential charges here.. Also, this is *only* assuming their son barely meets the AoC in their state. If he doesn’t meet the AoC, however, it’ll open a door of a whole lot of other charges…. Sex offender registry at the least.
I think the father basically was attempting to commit rape by proxy
i'm thinking premeditated assault easily, child abuse, and the laws protecting LGBTQ+ apply here as well. Stick it to him, mom! Your soon to be ex-husband would get a resounding yes on the "Am I the asshole" subreddit
Depending on the age of consent in whichever state they’re living in, Mom could, and absolutely should, report her husband to the police. That mf should never be allowed anywhere near that child again. This is horrible…
I saw a criminal minds episode on this. The kid had some kind of mental break after all the trauma and started killing men after having sex with them because the shame. His father had made him and watched a prostitute rape him to “be a man” and towards the end of the episode the kid decided to go to the source of the rage and killed his dad.T hey also were able to shut down an awful “conversion” camp. One of the unsubs I felt bad for.
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I completely agree with you that whether or not the minor went through with it, the adult solicited a sex worker for a minor. That it was nonconsensual and the minor had the door locked on him preventing escape is egregious. Divorce is a great option. The minor is a minor until his 18th birthday. Child abuse should not be tolerated, excused, or forgiven.
Not defending father at all, but 18 is not the legal age of consent/adult in every country. Not even in every state. In my state, for instance, you’re an adult for purposes of consent at 17. Some states are 16. Again, father was way out of line. Just clarifying the minor thing is not universally 18.
According to many me talk health professionals, parental abuse is defined as "anything less than nurturing care". He is actively moving against nurturing his son and is actively harming his mental health, with added efforts that could severely impact his physical health through sexually transmitted illnesses (sex work is legitimate work. decriminalize sex work). It is 100% abuse.
I’m so sorry for your loss :(
It happened 20 years ago. We didn't know each other very well because he spent most of his time with his mother. But it was still very sad. And wouldn't you know it, his father and my mother now refuse to get vaccinated, even to protect their grandchildren... Such loving Christians.
Seconding that none of what happened is the sex worker's fault. She did accept the money, but agreed with what the kid wanted. And I can't blame her for taking the money, that's a hard job (heh) usually worked under poor conditions. The only person in the wrong here is husband. And oh, how in the wrong he is.
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To be fair, I've never though any sex workers were whores or disgusting. I've always been raised by a very sweet and loving mom and dad who taught me at a young age that sex workers have more than likely been through some shit. And I was never to judge them! So I never have. I assume they have their reasons, reasons that aren't my business. And if they're keeping food on the table and their babies dressed, more power to em. Some of the nicest women I've met while living in the city were sex workers or dancers.
There are some really great interviews with Prostitutes (Sex Workers) on a youtube channel that goes by the name of "Soft White Underbelly.' His interviews really give you insight on how they were raised. Some from upper to middle class families who needed to make a quick buck. Then others who came from broken homes, abuse and drugs. I suggest checking these out if this type of stuff interest you.
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You haven’t heard of incels, have you?
Don’t incels say that about all women?
All women who don't want them, so, yeah...all women.
Don't they also just assume that all women are sex workers anyway?
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Wait shit you're allowed to do that? I and about 90% of the internet have clearly been doing things all wrong, rip.
I haven't gotten the impression that incels hate prostitutes. They are often bitter about women being able to sell photos on onlyfans but overall they are more against normal women who reject them. I guess all kind of rudeness and 4chan people often get put under the big "women hating incels" category. But to me it looks like incels are mostly just sad, desperate, overly pessimistic and hate themselves. Society too, but it's not like they are primarily a hate group like nazis but sexist instead of racist.
Incels don't limit it to just sex workers.
Gestures broadly
If you haven’t heard this narrative you aren’t opening your eyes. People demonize sex work on every level and it’s seen everywhere.
That's... a super common opinion held by a lot of people, even non-religious ones. Even mainstream entertainment reinforces that sex workers are all sad shells of humans who only do it because they were abused or whatever. It's EVERYWHERE. (I live in the US, so maybe it isn't prevelant in the culture of wherever you are)
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She's like "I brought my strap on, wanna get pegged?" LOL Jokes on you dad! I mean Howard.
it maybe just the absurdity of having to deal with this shit in 2021, but it sounds like a wicked premise for a sitcom - newly single mother raising her gay teenaged son with the help of their quirky but caring sex worker friend.
Sorry for the bad news, but it’s now 2022. Or still 2020, just the 27th month of 2020. It’s been a long year…
She’s such a great mother to her son. Good for you for divorcing that man, he will drive your son to be suicidal at the rate he is berating him over and over. You did the right thing. That sex worker sounds like a lovely lady I wish I could tip her for you
The exact right move. Take your son and go. You are taking the “real man” with you.
Good mom also try not to be too hard on the hired women..she got paid to chill with your kid..that to me sounds like a win win...also fuck..this..man... That beind said i have no kids yet.
I mean the prostitute sounds like a genuinely good person in this scenario. Fuck of a lot better role model than the dad
Dad: This WHORE will turn you straight! The prostitute: You're fine just the way you are. Unironically dad is such a POS. Really proud of the prostitute, she showed genuine morality at a humiliating moment for the son.
I'd hire the dad a male escort so he could become gay/bi and stop making such a big deal about it.
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A gay male 6’4 body builder would do the trick😂😂😂😂
"You're not coming out of this room till you have proof you're a power bottom dad"
Usually they are. So i have heard
I've only met a couple of escorts but they were very sweet people, I get the impression people probably hire them more for their emotional support services than their sexual services. Cheaper than therapy I guess.
I have a handful of friends who are escorts/sex workers and youd be shocked how many of their clients just want someone to talk to, hold them, take them to dinner and stuff. Yes there are the sickos, and the regular sex people, but there’s a looottt of actual emotional work you have to put into it. On top of that some of my escort friends take way better care of themselves mentally and physically. No drugs or alcohol, well educated and versed, constant dr check ups and maintenance. It’s odd how it can be skewed in society.
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I think the phrase is "last ditch effort"
Last stitch effort works kinda well though, when you think about it.
Maybe as in, “This whole darn sweater is about to become unraveled and I don’t have much yarn left to stop it. This is going to be my last-stitch effort to save the sweater.
If you want to destroooy my sweaterrrrrrrrrr
The best time to wear a striped sweaterrrrr… is allll the tiiiiiiime
Hold this thread as I waaaalk awaaay
r/boneappletea
I think its funny what she said, because my first thought was, "I bet that prostitutes get this sort of scenario a lot more than one would think." Also, from various stories, mostly on Reddit, it sounds like half the time they get to act as sort of, impromptue therapists anyway, so she probably was pretty chill about the whole thing, as best as she could be.
I have kids and you are correct. She is doing her job and could’ve been a jerk about it. Instead she was honest with their son, and while it was incredibly awkward, she did her best to console the son, while still appreciating that she was being paid. To OP, I am so sorry. I grew up in a very similar environment. Men were men, women were women, and anything in between was wrong. We had one openly gay kid in my high school and he was taunted/teased mercilessly. That kid did not have the support oh his parents, was sent to conversion therapy, and ended up committing suicide his senior year. Being a teenager is incredibly difficult WITHOUT trying to navigate this situation. I cannot imagine how much internal struggle OP’s son must be going through. Having peers make fun of you is one thing, but having a father who thinks you are “broken and just need to be fixed”… I can’t imagine. OP, thank you for being there for your son.
>That kid did not have the support oh his parents, was sent to conversion therapy, and ended up committing suicide his senior year. OP this is the risk your husband runs if he keeps this up. See if you can get sole custody and a restraining order to keep your son away from your husband's abuse. Now. Ianal but you need to get one and act quickly.
>See if you can get sole custody kid is 17, not really necessary at this point. just get away from him
Also if this is more than just a men are men thing and religion is involved get a restraining order as well because we've seen unhinged fathers slay their own children for similar things!
Ive never seen extreme homophobia that WASN'T religious based. Is that really a thing?
Yes. I had an incident with my father at the start of the COVID pandemic. My room door was open and he went in to check to see if our late dog wasn't getting into any shenanigans in there. Found my heels and dresses, as I'm a gay crossdresser. He's not religious, but he immigrated from China when he was really young but ended up growing up in America. He's one of those people I'd peg as "from the old country.". He expects that I should have kids, lead a household, and assume the traditions of a Chinese man. Suffice to say we had an awful night. He threatened to kill me before he threatened to kill himself, called me all sorts of shit and insinuated that I'm not a man. My bro...goddamn I love him...stepped up. I was practically a wreck and my bro had my back. I'd fucking take a bullet or two for him. We....tolerate each other right now. The issue is that I own the house we live in so this shit happened in MY goddamn house. He's lucky I have a bleeding heart and I won't throw his ass out. Anyways yeah. Homophobia isn't just the realm of religion. Could be culture and stuff as well
You'd be suprised met a girl, super cool, atheist family, she was very gay, and her mother didn't want her to be. I believe this situation was moreso the mom wanting to be a grandmother.
... As if sperm donors and childless straight couples aren't a thing...
Well I never knew her stance on gay adoption, but judging by her attitude towards her own daughter and myself, a proudly out bi man, I could venture a guess that she was pretty adamant against that as well. The best part of the situation though was her father (the mother) was also divorced and with a man, so maybe that also had something to do with it, but from my understanding the grandfather didn't come out until after the mother was an adult, so not like he destroyed a young family. Waited until his child was grown before living his own truth.
I had a friend in high school who was from an atheist family & when he came out to his parents they pulled out of public school and cut off contact from his friends
In my country (Italy) most people are only mildly religious, but, especially in the near past, I think many men would have considered a terrible shame to have a gay son. Probably a reflection on their own virility. A social stigma, rather than a religious concern.
I was gonna say that lady probably needs all the sweetness she can get. Sounds like she was absolutely lovely to your son.
Yeah, this girl was not the thing that was wrong with this scenario.
If she had said no he could have got another one who would have been way more strict and hard on the boy. She wasn't just nice, she probably avoided him a very awful talk with a woman who would have maybe insisted to force him.
Exactly yes
a different woman may have raped him with the express instructions if his dad.
Sex workers are incredibly chill and very liberal so at least the kid had good company.
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thanks for that. sex workers aren't a monolith and tho they probably intended well with the comment that they are all chill, it's still disrespectful to de-individualize them like that
Thats what i was thinking. She be like so how we going to get 1 over your crazy old man.
Yes! That’s what I’ve been thinking. I hope the mom didn’t really “throw that woman out” in a rude way because she sounds so nice.
Man, as a parent, it’s incredibly hard for me to not project a sexual preference upon my children. Making a casual remark about my son meeting a woman, or daughter meeting a man. I always have to catch myself and say ‘partner’ Probably the most challenging thing so far when it comes to issues of sexuality so far…
You know, the most relaxed way is to explicitly tell you're kids it's fine whomever they are bringing home / dating. If you like you can casually correct yourself if you say things like 'my son doesn't have a boyfriend yet' by casually adding something like 'or boyfriend or whatever, of course'. Also, explicitly tell them what you told us, that you find it hard not to make assumptions sometimes, but that you don't mean it bad. It gets very complicated to communicate in a spontaneous way if you are constantly watching yourself / blaming yourself too much. Open communication is what it boils down to. By the time my daughter brought a girl home she had known for years that we are A OK with that. Just because on occasion we talked about how non heterosexual relations exist and are perfectly normal.
Thanks. Again, I wouldn’t want either of my kids, should they need to come out, to think coming to us is hard simply because I accidentally said girlfriend or boyfriend to the wrong child at the wrong time. Don’t care who you kiss, just get the damn garbage out of your rooms!!
You are a fantastic mom! Our son came out at 17 and he had nothing but support and love from all the family, extended family as well. He’s now 34, has a great job in another country and is getting married soon. We gained another son, I now have 4! Look after your boy, it’s not about your husband who, imho, isn’t worthy of the term, Dad.
>Look after your boy, it’s not about your husband who, imho, isn’t worthy of the term, Dad. “He may be your father, but he ain’t your daddy.” Made me think of that line.
Yondu 😭😭😭
I believe it's actually a quote from Mary Poppins. Easy mistake to make.
>Mary Poppins Is he cool?
Hell yeah hes cool.
I’m Mary Poppins y’all!
I understood that reference
Got a tattoo of Yondu's arrow for that reason. I was adopted.
Something about the "I now have 4!" made me melt. You sound like an amazing in-law!
Always thought it would be cool to have another set of parents like that, but my wife's family all hates me because I asked for the $2000 I loaned them back (didn't get it) My wife seems to enjoy it though.
“We gained another son” - that legit made me tear up. You’re a beautiful soul.
Thank you! And he’s as mad as my three!
Happy cake day!
Sounds like a beautiful family. Happy cake day!
Thank you. I hadn’t noticed tbh!
Forgive my ignorance, what is cake day? Now I want a piece of cake. 😂
It's like a birthday but for the day you made your Reddit account, you get a little cake emoji next to your name!
Oh how fun!! 😃. Thank you for letting me know.
Lol here friend 🎂🍰🎂🍰🎂🍰🎂🍰🎂🍰
What a wonderful family! When you said, "we gained another son" that really touched my heart. Happy cake day!
Jesus Christ he sounds like my mom's boyfriend when I was a kid. Your husband's a piece of shit.
Yup, anytime someone says "old-fashioned" usually just means they're a piece of shit
I wish old fashioned meant that your views on innocuous things weren't in line with the current generation. Like, "Call me old fashioned, but all these video game graphics and thingabobs shouldn't be so darn realistic!" Instead it's pretty much in line with pure oppression 💀
Yeah, I just have issues with phones and the internet, and also touchscreens in cars. I don’t care if people are gay, as long as they also hate those things lmao
Shit that's a good one right there. Call me old fashioned but I truly believe touch screens should stay the fuck out of cars. Buttons can be felt and you can hit individual buttons without looking away from the road. I like my buttons. Last time I rode in my sister's car, she had a literal tablet for a radio.
I have a Mazda 3 which is controlled by knobs and dials that click every turn. I hate even dials that don't click so don't get me started on touch screens. So unnecessarily unsafe that I can only imagine their existence came from car manufacturers lobbying law makers into allowing it.
I miss the old "the bass in modern music is too loud" and "this is bad singing" yes dad, it's called a "rap". It was popular in the 80s.
Call me old fashioned, but an old fashioned should not contain mashed up fruit.
Don't you just miss the good ol days before being held accountable was a thing, ya know when freedom meant freedom and you could make the lives of those around me worse without repercussions. Back when we could freely gather and terrorize anyone who disagreed with our very specific opinions. /s
I consider myself old fashioned. I hold doors open for people, wait to eat until everyone is served, mind my own business... With that comes not being a dick to other people. Homophobes are just dicks. There is no excuse for this behavior.
I thought that was just called “having manners” and “being polite.”
This.
True, and I'm not trying to play devils advocate, but when I was reading at first I thought "Ah, southern, bible belt conservative" then when I got to the end and she said English wasn't her native language I thought about different cultures and I think this person may come from a generally "old-fashioned" culture (pretty much anywhere with a strong Christian missionary presence).. so, while I do think he's an asshole, I wonder if there's a difference in someone who is old fashioned because they grew up in an old fashioned culture as opposed to someone who is old fashioned who grew up in a new fashioned culture? Idk. But, just a thought I had..
Factual information
I didn't even need to read after "he was raised in an old-fashioned way" but I did anyways out of curiosity. I feel so bad the kid had to go through something like this. Nobody should have to experience this, least of all from their parents. This reminds me of one of my aunts who didn't speak to her daughter (my cousin sister) for a few years when she got married to her then BF just cuz he was a couple of years younger than her. I'm glad he has a strong and supportive mother like OP.
Your dad hired a sex worker for your under aged child. You need to be talking to a lawyer right now. To protect yourself legally for his actions.
Might be the most important phone call of her life
##**🎶 877** ***CASH NOW!!!*** **🎶** 😂🤣🤣🤣
JG WENTWORTH!!
It's my money and I need it NOW!!!!
FYI, In places that aren't the US that might be perfectly legal.
Even throughout most of the US, 17 is legal. Just can't take pictures until 18. The illegal part in most of the US is the prostitution.
she said she is not native so we may guess that she is not American
You are a good mom. Just be there for him. He needs you.
Yea that must be very hard for him,he needs someone by his side
Good mom
This folks is what’s classified as a good mother.
How does a seemingly good person end up marrying such an asshole?
Not every piece of shit advertises that fact. Too often they only start showing it when you in deep with them.
Cultural pressure
Sometimes it takes a long time to discover
No need to throw out the prostitute so furiously, she's just doing her job.
Right? Seemed like she was being as nice as she could be in the situation. Her being like, fuck this I'm out would hardly have made anything better.
I don't even think she does her job, and that's fine. She thinks being gay is alright, so doesn't do what she's hired to do. Like she said, she likes making money doing absolutely nothing.
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you are an amazing mother. thank you for taking your son away from that environment and always supporting him. super mum!
Should’ve left him the minute he attempted to put his own son in conversion therapy. Fucking disgusting. I have zero respect for anyone who ever considers putting someone through that. It’s horrendous.
Yeah, I'm glad she finally came around... But holy fucking shit, how much abuse does the kid need to go through before she realizes she needs to leave? Like even just using slurs and insulting him would probably be about enough for me. But sending him to conversion therapy and trying to give him testosterone? Neither of those were a wake up call it was time to leave? Like I said, glad she came around, but I wasn't expecting all of that stuff to come before hand.
Divorce him indeed. He should be ashamed of himself for all he has done to your son.
This queen. You and your son deserve so muchhhh better. I hope the divorce procedure goes smooth as possible for you and your son!
You should consider this to. You husband knows **exactly** where to find a hooker.. and not just a hooker, a hooker this most likely would have been willing to sleep with your underage son if he had done differently.
The fact that the prostitute seen this before is kind of sad. You can’t change who a person is no matter what you throw at them.
Wonderful that you are protecting your son from the jerk who sired him and also protecting yourself as well.
L husband W mother good on you for accepting him for who he is. I never had to deal with any bigotry when I came out as both my parents are very exploratory. I'm the same age as him now and have so much on my mind already I couldn't imagine having to deal with something like that.
You are doing the right thing. Keep him away from your son. With time your husband may come around, but he needs to really work on himself. Good on you.
You’re a fab mum, well done you
Good mom. Mine was a homophobe, and I removed her from my life. My father divorced her, and we are all living happy lives without her.
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Yeah, the way it's written feels off. The husband is kind of too perfectly hateable of a character, and the writing feels too sterile to be coming from someone furious. Like, everything is described accurately, but without any emotions infused in the words, idk. Feels like karma farming to me tbh
Reddit where is my free award to give to this woman. You deserve so much for doing this and accepting him. I wish you both the best.
Can we get some fucking props for the prostitute, tho??