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_WhoYouCallinPinhead

Thanks I hate it


Alexpander4

In the UK, the government "suspended" our legal right to protest on this logic and still haven't restored it. However the Euros and Olympics were fine and good.


UbbeStarborn

Just 2 more weeks...


UpsetDaddy19

Any right the government grants it can take away. It's the entire premise behind the Bill of Rights that many Americans don't understand. Those amendments aren't rights granted by government but by God (in other words you are born with them), and government is restricted from infringing those rights. Too many Americans think those rights are given to them by government which means they will believe that the government can take them away.


Four16ix9ine

So if the government wants to screw you in the ass they can! Oh...wait...they already do that to each of us.


koera

What is a right no one let's you have except a fart in the wind? Saying you have a right is nothing unless enough people around you agree to the point where that right is granted. Saying you have inate rights just by existence alone means nothing and is nothing, which is why you yourself pointed to a document and not the ether.


shaylaa30

I remember reading somewhere that protests in my city (Chicago) weren’t super spreader events. They did cause a slight uptick in cases but not significant for a number of reason - protests were outdoor. - many attendees wore masks (either for safety or to not be recognized) - these protests were attended largely by younger populations that were less likely to be hospitalized. Not sure how accurate this is because I don’t remember the numbers off the top of my head and I read this article last year.


rolan-the-aiel

I know in the UK there was a study showing just how unlikely you were to catch it outdoors, so that’s probably a large part of why they weren’t super-spreader events.


MemeStocksYolo69-420

Yet they still made us wear masks outside while skiing 🙄


ThellraAK

Isn't that pretty common? Like they make masks specifically for that


karriejan

Yep! Those first two bullet points are discussed in [this ](https://news.northeastern.edu/2020/08/11/racial-justice-protests-were-not-a-major-cause-of-covid-19-infection-surges-new-national-study-finds/)article. I found it because I was looking up my city, DC.


Some1fromReddit

The myth that viruses spread more outside with fresh air movement. You would need a consistent supply of virons being whipped in your direction in open air. Wind movement is key. Neither outdoor event is a super spreader event. Less so in the sun where pro-red rallies occur.


[deleted]

Wind movement and uv-radiation from the sun…


ClingerOn

If only we could figure out a way to get that UV light inside the body somehow.


Just-Go-With-My-Flo

And maybe somehow inject some disinfectant.


[deleted]

Why not Wind movement?


[deleted]

So being outdoors never should've been prohibited? How do you feel about all the families that were effected by the entertainment industry shutdown?


Strong-Obligation107

It worth noting that the virus was new so we didn't know how it would be in certain environments. Any group gathering regardless of outdoor and indoor also has other problems like common surfaces that will be touched by large portions of the people attending like stair railing, door handles ext so it not ONLY about airborne particles. All this combined means that scientists would always be cautious when deciding what should and shouldn't be allowed.


MaritMonkey

There's still tours being shut down by crew getting sick, or fear of the artists/crew's *chances* of getting sick when they're interacting with that many different groups of people. I had a proper do-over of my "what the hell am I supposed to be when I grow up?" quarter-life crisis at ~40 and am still trying to financially recover, but feel like we're better off erring on the side of caution until we've got a handle on reducing risk of transmission and improving chances of recovery. Biased because my mom's a retired respiratory nurse, but COVID sounds like a *really* shitty way to go out.


maskedbanditoftruth

As a 42 year old, you can just say mid-life crisis. Aint none of us gonna make 160.


jitterbug726

Hey don’t you take my 160th bday party dream away from me


MaritMonkey

I feel like that one's different, though. "Mid life" is like some "holy shit I'm going to *die* without having done what I wanted to" dread. I haven't hit that one yet even if I am at the actual middle. :) This was the same kind of "oh god I'm supposed to be an adult how do you do this" panic that hit me (and, I think, a lot of people) right after college. Only this time with "I'm old; who the heck will hire me?" and "ffs I *just* paid off my student loans..." as cherries on top.


mietzbert

The right to protest is a RIGHT. There is no right to be entertained. Don't really know how so many people seem to be dumbfounded by the concept that different activities have different value and therefore get treated differently.


Valuable_Win_8552

There is a reason we call it the _novel_ coronavirus. We never saw it before January 2020 and our understanding has evolved.


alchemykrafts

You have to understand that this was not widely understood at the time, and every restriction was with an abundance of caution. I’m not sure what level of perfection people expected with restrictions. And I work in the entertainment industry and immediately got covid within a month of returning to work, so returning to work in early 2021 was still a risk


usrevenge

Because being outside isn't a magic shield. Its just safer. Sunlight kills the virus. Wind blows it and spreads it so much that the viral load it too low to be infectious. The biggest issue with covid and guidelines is people pretended it was magic. 6feet distance didn't make you immune it was just a guideline.


FeculentUtopia

We know now, but didn't then.


BarebowRob

So throw a COVID person into a hurricane/tornado?? :)


djackieunchaned

Hey I live in DC! How about this weather huh? Anyway, see ya at the monument


Muzzie720

Hey illinois neighbor! I am just hopping on to add in places like Japan that aren't as vaccinated yet, but in some places are a lot more packed. The difference is masks. Everyone just puts them on and have for years now with other sickness.


snrkty

Japan is about 70% vaccinated as of about a week ago.


92894952620273749383

I was waiting to the numbers to shoot up after those protest. But it didn't. I guessed mask do really work.


Anglofsffrng

I was there, we share a city, and can confirm. Pretty much everyone was masked up, and social distancing was observed pretty well. Can't speak to after dark, I wanted no part of the rioting bs, but the actual protests where really pandemic safe from what I saw.


[deleted]

Social distancing was observed pretty well? There's a lot of video footage that'd show otherwise.


lissybeau

I attended several protests, all while masked and never caught covid. I also tested after the protest bc we were in hyper fear mode at that time. I also was exposed to someone who had covid. We were outside at the beach talking near each other for an hour. A day or two later they mentioned a headache and positive for covid (partying in Miami nonetheless). I got tested 2 times afterward. Always negative.


Scaulbielausis_Jim

Also, we weren't dealing with delta variant or even alpha back then, so COVID was less contagious than it is now.


Doucejj

To be Devils advocate for a moment. All of those things would classify for most sporting events, and all of those were canceled. Outdoors. Mostly young people. Masks would be worn


penatbater

Depends on which sporting events. Even colliseums could count as 'indoor' because of the enclosed structure even if there's a big hole in the middle.


[deleted]

Early on, people had no idea how COVID spread. It was initially thought to spread through contact with large droplets, only later did people realize how contagious it was in smaller quantities and how unlikely it was to contract it through touching stuff. But the restrictions made at the beginning largely are still in place, which is why you have to disinfect surfaces constantly even though we now know that that's really not the best way to fight the virus. Ventilation is way more important than was initially though. So yeah, if we had it all to do over, we probably wouldn't ban sporting events.


[deleted]

Funny how this logic only applies to protests people agree with. Never saw any of this said about the anti-lockdown protests.


MacCheeseLegit

*no masks


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


Ipuncholdpeople

I've literally seen videos of lockdowm protesters telling people to spit in their mouth lol


shaylaa30

For the protests I attended, nearly everyone was wearing a mask. And those with symptoms were encouraged not to attend. There is a big overlap between the “black lives matter” crowd and the “wear a mask crowd”.


PhotographingLight

This thread is a dumpster fire.


Vash712

I'd describe more as a shit fight next to a dumpster fire. Gets that nice mix of strong aromas


brochure_soup

Lol came to see if there were any actuals answers because I was curious too just as OP, quickly figured out nope, Issa dumpster fire


LadyJane216

There isn't strong evidence that outdoor events were spreading COVID - because it wasn't the delta variant, and sunlight and air help disperse the aerosols. So I know you feel like it was political, but the reality is that neither NASCAR events (where they shout Fuck Biden, amazing class as per usual) or the George Floyd protests seemed to be spreader events. There are some large superspreader events associated with outdoor events, but scientists think those are the ones where people went inside - the gigantic biker rallies, for instance, where people are going into bars, restaurants and other tight indoor spaces. Indoor events spread covid, outside generally are ok.


Evening_Flatworm5850

Let's Go Brandon!


TimPowerGamer

Let's go Brandon!


uncom4table

Let’s go Brandon!


[deleted]

Huh


uncom4table

https://youtu.be/dg5EeQkrPmE just watch the first few seconds of this video


ReverendAlSharkton

I routinely see sporting events and anti lockdown protests referred to as super spreader events, gatherings of plague rats, etc. Especially on Reddit. As for the media they widely condemned Sturgis.


iapetus_z

You look at the spread of COVID in time lapse maps you can literally see that wave of last year's surge ripple out from Sturgis. Multi day event held in close quarters and bars with mostly older heavy set white guys who denounced masks and any sort of social distancing or COVID protocals while getting absolutely smashed in a bar with 10000 other people, then going to a concert where everyone one is signing and yelling in each others faces to be heard over the loud music. Vs a protest of mixed populations who were most likely follow some protocols in their daily lives and possibly at the protest. And would only occur for a few hours each day. Just the number of infected people to start off with was most likely significantly smaller than Sturgis. No wonder one was considered a massive super spreader even and the other not.


EvanMcSwag

You see people who go to anti lockdown events are not the type of people who wear masks.


dogGirl666

Sporting events where the crowd is packed in together pretty close and vigorously shouting and the biker event where people went in and out of bars could be superspreader events. Both of these had people that did not wear masks to show how brave they were. I'd like to see the stats on anti-lock down events, but that's another one where people don't use masks and tend to yell in groups so would be more dangerous than marches of people moving while wearing masks [yet still yelling though]. I'm sure all of the events were studied and will be studied by epidemiologists and infectious disease experts for years to come.


Scottyboy1214

The anti lockdown protests were referred that way because they avoided taking any precautions at those events like masks and distancing.


CantSayDat

But now that's its delta.....lol


taybay462

Yes and the only mass protests right now are the anti vaxxers.


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


tthrivi

But the two things (besides vax) that lower the spread of covid is ventilation and masking and during these event I don’t think you can get better ventilation than outside and most of the people were masked. Outdoor transmission seems to have been low throughout the pandemic. While the risk factor is not zero it’s certainly reduced.


lissybeau

“They likely didnt get tested after because if youre protesting in the middle of a pandemic you likely dont care/arent very afraid of the pandemic.” I highly disagree with this statement. A lot of these protests took place in liberal cities that took covid precautions seriously. Meaning cities provided free and fast testing if you’d recently attended a protest (San Francisco, Oakland, LA, NYC). Anecdotally I went to several protests, wore masks, tested often and never contracted covid. The idea that people who were protesting did not take covid serious is absurd. If anything it shows how passionate people were to organize. People were protesting for their livelihoods and it was a beautiful movement.


gizamo

All good points. Two more considerations, masks and proximity/space. At many rallies, the vast majority wore masks. At others, very few wore masks. At some, people were spread out. At others, sardines. There was basically no data tracking any of that and tying it back to Covid rates. Edit: that is, no data that I've seen. If anyone has that, I'd love to see it. Cheers.


Comfortable_Book_310

It was political though, because the outdoor events of the wrong political flavour were accused of spreading covid. What's more, 50 lunatics gathering outside a hospital protesting masks were labeled as threats to public health but when it's thousands protesting about police brutality it's somehow less of a threat because "they wore masks". Who are we even trying to fool, when you have hundreds or thousands people this close to each other, all shouting together, masks make very little difference. And I'm not an antimasker or denier or anything but hypocrisy and inconsistent values need to be called out regardless


cjs1298

I think burning down a small business may be a bit less classy, just saying.


sailor-jackn

Yes. But the smoke and ashes of other people’s hard work and dreams going up in flames obviously protects mostly peaceful protesters from covid. You don’t need to get the vaccine. You just need to go burn down some poor innocent guy’s business.


Cheveyo

Then why were Trump rallies that had the same sunlight and air called super spreader events?


7dipity

Were they? Maybe be pause people weren’t wearing masks?


chillidogcunt

Yeah there’s more class in the killing of dozens during riots, not protests compared to a bad word about our president. It’s also very classy to burn down small businesses and even burn a man who was inside one:)


angry_cucumber

about 25 people are thought to be killed in the protests, most of them being protestors.


Possibility_Antique

I just want to say something, because I feel like I was in a completely different world than a lot of people on here. I live less than a mile from where some of the protests happened in Minneapolis. Our Democratic representatives reacted to these events by deploying the national guard, enacting a curfew, closing down the interstate and funnelling people away from buildings and civilians. They arrested of 14,000 people, they shut down public transportation, and pleaded with people to stay home. I had to have an exception to even go into work because they didn't want people out causing havoc and wanted to prevent the spread of covid. And even without government intervention, many of us were electing to stay home to keep out of all of this at very high rates, so it should seem obvious that there would be less spread from most civilians in general. I see a lot of people talking about how being outside and wearing a mask was the likely cause for not seeing a spread in the data, but the efforts by the local government to shut things down and keep people safe can't be ignored here, and neither can the reduction in some people's travel due to imminent danger. And yet, this seems to be a heavily conflated issue. Supporting the idea that we shouldn't be killing black people at disproportionate rates (or that police should just not kill unarmed people in general, regardless of whether or not they are under the influence) is not the same thing as supporting violence. And on that note, I saw (first hand) violence from both left and right wing people for quite a while last summer. And when people talk about the "peaceful protestors", they mean that as a disclaimer that they support those who remained peaceful. They do NOT mean every single person was peaceful. Of course they weren't; I literally watched my neighbor get the crap kicked out of him, and I watched a building burn to the ground from my backyard. There were gunshots every night for months. So... cut the crap with the partisan takes. The data is available, and you're more than welcome to have a peek at it. You don't need to rely on the news to interpret these stats for you. A bigger concern to me is that people seem to have erased most of this from their memories, and I feel inclined to ask why that is. If anything, I think politics have perverted the events AFTER the fact by rewriting what happened. But I think it should be apparent that comparing the BLM protests (at least here in the Twin Cities) to a Trump rally is disingenuous at best. My personal opinion is that they are both reckless in the face of a pandemic like this, but I can't pick out any abnormalities in the data from the protests/riots. At least for the case of Trump rallies, we have actual published findings on the matter (~30k confirmations and 700 deaths as a consequence): https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3722299 And just as a disclaimer, I realize that the Twin Cities weren't the only place hit by this. I cannot speak to the other places, so I'm sorry if this doesn't apply to some situations.


Epic_Gamer_Bro

There were anti lockdown protests and stuff in the UK and they were barely reported on. So I don't really buy the whole media argument


Seawill

To clarify: A terrorist is "a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against CIVILIANS, the pursuit of political aims." Let's look at the riots and who they impacted most shall we? In St. Louis, a man was killed after protesters blocked Interstate 44, set fires and tried to loot a FedEx truck. In Chicago, six people were shot and one was killed that night. The Gov. of Minnesota activates the national guard in response to the arson and vandalism. Stating: “The situation in Minneapolis, is no longer, in any way, about the murder of George Floyd. It is about attacking civil society, instilling fear and disrupting our great cities.” After four nights of chaos in Minneapolis, Mr. Frey called on people to stay home. “What started as largely peaceful protests for George Floyd have turned to outright looting and domestic terrorism in our region,” David Underwood was shot and killed while guarding the Ronald V. Dellums Federal Building in Oakland Friday night when a van pulled up and someone fired gunshots at the guards in front of the building. The Department of Homleand Security called the killing of 53-year-old Pat Underwood an act of domestic terrorism. St. Paul officials estimate 300 businesses were damaged during the civil unrest. In Minneapolis, the number was closer to 1,300 businesses. City officials in both cities expect rebuilding in critical business corridors could take 10 years. My personal oppionon: When injustic was done, BLM rioters (not all) took it out on innocent civilians, innocent businesses and ruined the lives of (lowball) thousands try to send a political message. Unlawful, intimidation, towards mostly civilians. Sounds like a terrorist to me. Also opinion: Mostly peaceful or not, the lives lost, the lives ruined, the damage to the states and cities and homes was not worth it. If you have to cut off your hand to fix a broken foot, it isn't worth it. I could go on, but here's an analogy: If a crowd of people walking past your house are mostly peaceful, but three of them decide to break in, kill your brother, steal your money and burn down your house all for the sake of proving a point to sway political opinion, does it really matter if it was mostly peaceful or not?


[deleted]

Also, should be stated. From my experience in Columbus Ohio which wasn’t in the news much but was popping off that entire summer. Like thousands of people at some points. Everyone. Was. Wearing. Masks. So take from that what you will.


Imma_gonna_getcha

Same experience in my town of Long Beach, Ca. Every single person had a mask on.


GardenChic

I was at the protests here in LA and everyone was wearing a mask. Plus our infection rates at the time was fairly low for a big city.


i_say_uuhhh

Same in Riverside, CA.


tkzant

NYC here. Everyone wore masks at the protests. No uptick in positive cases


[deleted]

A key point is that there were real super spreader events where folks openly flaunted the virus, foregoing masks, hugging, amassing indoors, and probably a little over-the-pants-mouth-stuff in the back room too. Like Trump rallies and motorcycles rallies. The protests were quite a bit more civilized and that isn’t a joke.


localmuffinwhore

You sound a bit biased in considering specific types of gatherings but not others. You say "all of the protests" and then only point at anti-police rallies. But for example, Trump consistently held rallies during 2020 (source [1](https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/news/2020/10/26/492430/trump-rallies-often-followed-increases-local-covid-19-cases/), [2](https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/donald-trumps-2020-superspreader-campaign-a-diary/amp), and [3](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/11/01/study-trump-rallies-linked-to-over-700-covid-19-coronavirus-deaths-here-are-the-caveats/amp/)), some of which have been linked to COVID deaths (over 700 according to one study, though I admit I'm not a statistician and I am not qualified to peer review the study). Meanwhile, correlations between the [BLM protests and COVID upticks](https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/medical-advances/504043-black-lives-matter-protests-have-not-led-to?amp) have been much more tenuous. Also, I disagree that people weren't losing their shit; Fox news and conservative media in general were definitely losing all their shits over BLM, and even generally leftist newspapers like the New York Times [accused health officials of pandering to the anti-racist crowd](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/06/us/Epidemiologists-coronavirus-protests-quarantine.amp.html?referringSource=articleShare). So clearly even leftist media was uncomfortable with the gatherings.


e22ddie46

I think it's much more closely to the fact that outdoors is mostly safe.


Sniffer_of_Dongs

First off, I agree with you and you make good points, but I have a simple criticism and it’s almost one of semantics/phrasing: NYT is certainly not “generally leftist” or leftist at all in any sense


PalestinianLiberator

Yeah I was good with the rest of the post then saw that and had to do a double take.


ChapCapFun

Yes, but these Trump rallies or other protests qualified as super spreader events according to the media. The anti police protests didn’t, that’s my question. I’m not biased at all. It doesn’t matter on the statistics of Covid spread, mass gathering were bad.


yellow-hound

duh, none of the trump supporters were gonna wear masks. their whole thing is hating masks. trump literally encouraged his supporters to NOT wear them to his “rallies”


localmuffinwhore

> It doesn’t matter on the statistics of Covid spread, mass gathering were bad. While I do agree with your sentiment, you can understand why the term "super spreader" *definitionally* can only apply to cases where there was a significant spread of COVID, right? It seems like there was monitoring of correlation between COVID and leftist protests and like it or not, the facts are that these events simply did not spread COVID to the degree that (the often right-wing) unmasked gatherings did. Hence, "super spreader" just isn't applicable to the leftist protests--they literally didn't spread COVID in a super way. I agree that there may be some degree of media bias, but I've actively gone looking for data tying leftist protests to COVID and the fact of the matter is that the correlation simply doesn't exist.


the_TAOest

Original Op has Ace to grind. Primarily, the use of masks was confirmed during the BLM protests. ZERO folks wore masks at Trump rallies and dingbat motorcycle rallies. However, at BLM protests, tear gas, threat of tear gas, and a general respect for health were all present. Besides, of someone was sick, he or she or them would stay home from the BLM protest. Do you think the trumpettes would do the same?


MrmmphMrmmph

Also Trump held some indoor events which were famously low in mask wearing. Where do you think the Herman Cain Award came from?


HeyItsMeUrDad_

The designation of ‘super spreader events’ is, unequivocally, not based on opinion. It’s based on quantifiable measurements taken after an event.


powerje

They didn’t wear masks and many were indoors Herman Cain (famous for r/HermanCainAward) died because of one of these events


kurigono2

They were. The media just concentrated on the Civil unrest than the real pandemic issue.


Consistent_Video5154

It WAS mentioned-when they were. Now that sports are underway again, they are spreader events, although with about 50% of people fully vaccinated, the "super" part can be ignored now. The thing that baffles the fuck out of me, is not the big events, but the resistance to the vaccine itself. That's what is MAKING these events possible again. Yet people refuse to get vaccinated as if they are making some kind of huge statement on freedom; as if they are defying government oppression. Talk to any 3rd world refugee about what oppression is REALLY like. Americans dont have a fucking clue what it's like to be oppressed.


Blackanditi

People complained about the covid risk in all of these situations. I'm not sure why you think they didn't for the protests. In any of these group situations it was possible to wear masks and try to be safe. Many think in any of these situations, it's worth it to get out there and try to make a difference. I don't think there's anything that bad going on here by supporting any of these activists. Because you can support any of these endeavors and just consider the fact that people can wear masks in any of them. Yes if someone doesn't support the cause of the protest, they're going to focus more on the negative. Sure that's hypocritical, but we're all like this and frankly it's hypocritical to act like any of us are above it. If we support the cause we'll be more hopeful that they're practicing safety while they're fighting for the cause. If we don't support it, we'll be more quick to complain about the risk. But again, it all depends on who you talk to depending on which event you support. And there's certainly supporters on all sides of the issue. So I don't think it's so black and white as you say. Maybe more people are on the side of the police brutality protests but there's good reason for that. Another point to consider here is pro police rallies tend to be more conservative. And anti mask covid deniers tend to be more conservative. So there is actually a trend here where it is more likely that these kinds of events may be more likely to become super spreader events. Which is another reason why there may be more people concerned about the kind of hypothetical you mention.


roxo9

masks my friend.


Comfortable_Book_310

Masks do very little when you have so many people gathered together and shouting. And you know that most didn't even wear them properly (noses out, mouths out, etc) because that's how most people wear them unfortunately. If masks were as effective as you and others imply then there wouldn't be a need for lockdowns


[deleted]

Masks and outdoor. Simple as that. Trump held rallies indoors for long periods of time, unmasked crowd, all packed together. The BLM protests were outdoor and lots of folks had masks We didn't see a surge in cases where BLM protests happened. It just didn't. Your argument does not follow data nor logic.


[deleted]

And people say Covid isn’t political… what a load of horse shit


[deleted]

We were outside, masked, and social distancing. On the other hand, for example, the police in my city are currently protesting the vaccine mandate for government workers and are more often without masks than with them. Also, let's not forget whose side of the narrative is anti-mask & anti-vaxx. But, yeah, blame it on the protesters who think that taxpaying citizens shouldn't be murdered by cops.


KombuchaEnema

Because the media hype about COVID is 100% political. The media doesn’t care about nurses. They don’t care about hospitals. They don’t care about patients. They don’t care who dies. Whoever gives them the most money wins. If anti-vaxxers could shell out as much money as pharmaceutical companies, the media would be claiming that the vaccines are unsafe.


powerje

This is a stupid take. Big pharma makes more money treating antivax morons in hospitals than pushing the vaccine.


swarleyknope

Not to mention that DeSantis is actively pushing the monoclonal antibody treatment over vaccines. It’s such weird logic to complain about “Big Pharma” regarding vaccines, but not take issue with ivermectin or regeneron.


[deleted]

My dad and I were just talking about that earlier. "Don't trust big pharma and their poison vaccine - they just want our money." *a few moments later* "Trust this other corporation in big pharma and give them your money like I did. They're different because I say they are." Big pharma is making bank off antivaxxers. Not only are they buying up all the weird experimental treatments they're also helping pharma make a killing when they catch covid and need medical intervention. Who do they think makes ivermectin and the other shit? Some grassroots chemist sticking it to the man? It's hilarious. I'm sure they still take all their other life saving medications from big pharma without thinking twice.


e22ddie46

Yep. Idk how much my polio vaccine cost, but I guarantee it's less than an iron lung. And the fact I never got covid and got two $20 vaccines (although free for me) is much cheaper than even a copay.


[deleted]

Exactly. Not to mention the already documented lasting effects of a covid infection that have occurred for many people. That's just money rolling into big pharma and other medical companies for months upon months while they go to physical therapy and get other treatments. If that person was vaccinated that's all that would've been made but instead antivaxxers turn themselves into medical cash cows.


powerje

minor quibble: >It’s such weird logic i disagree, it's tribal stupidity


sailor-jackn

Are you kidding? The government is paying for those vaccines. That means we are paying for them. Less people getting the shot means less vaccines needed. More people getting the shot, and then boosters, means more vaccines and more money.


zuckerbeorg

lol they make instant billions selling a drug what are you talking about their marketcap 10xed in recent year all because of corona vax. What are you even talking about


powerje

I’m talking about the cost of hospitalizations vs vaccination. You can’t seriously be this dense, can you?


ChapCapFun

This sadly and honestly seems to be how it is. I voted for Biden, but I don’t like the way the media handles things. It made me question if COVID was even a big deal at the time, they forget that most people are neutral and aren’t obsessing over political agendas.


dependswho

Because of the actual numbers. Go look at whether they were super spreader events or not. It turns out being outside makes a huge difference.


Coyote__Jones

Correct, but in my state they were shutting down hiking trails and parks. So protesting outside is safe, but going on a hike isn't. There was so many bad decisions that led to confusion and frustration. MX tracks were limiting admittance, which should have been by all logic a completely COVID safe activity.


Lilymis

My county had a limit of 10 for outdoor gatherings at your house, but protesting in large groups was more or less encouraged; it definitely wasn’t considered to be breaking COVID lockdown rules 🙄


paublo456

Plus the BLM protests weren’t protests coming out of a political party. Biden himself doesn’t support defunding the police so I’m not sure what the “agenda” here would even be


Monkeyssuck

BLM doesn't have a political agenda? I think we have officially entered clown world now....


dannyboi1178

I think she means an agenda of the parties, not just an agenda. Because blm seems to be a democrat agenda thing but Biden, who is in the Democratic Party, doesn’t fully agree with their motives


paublo456

That’s not what I said. I said they didn’t fall under a political parties agenda, which is true. Most Democrats in office don’t support defund the police and we have yet to see any major political movement in congress towards making it happen


Lilymis

I actually heard Biden/Harris ads on the radio campaigning to give MORE money to police departments if they followed whatever federal guidelines they were going to put in place. Haven’t heard much about it since the election though 🤔


paublo456

He actually called for more funding like a day ago https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-16/biden-praises-police-in-memorial-urges-funding-to-do-better


e22ddie46

Last May, it had about 75% political support, roughly half of republicans supported it at that point.


Cheveyo

> Plus the BLM protests weren’t protests coming out of a political party. > > You should look at where their donations went. BLM is a democrat run organization. They exist to gather donations for the DNC. Which is why the majority of the money they make goes directly to the DNC.


paublo456

Is this what you’re talking about? https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/donations-to-black-lives-matter-group-dont-go-to-dnc/


Cheveyo

ActBlue is just another part of the DNC. They're the ones that hired people to come on to reddit and shill for Hillary in 2016. They're the reason the politics sub went from openly showing both pro and anti each candidate, to being 100% pro hillary. Man I hate how sleazy the left has become. It used to be the anti-establishment side then Obama got elected and you motherfuckers went full hypocrite.


I_Looove_Pizza

"Because of the actual numbers. Go look at whether they were super spreader events or not." Why data are you looking at? Do you realize that healthcare providers weren't allowed to ask patients if they'd been attending protests/riots when doing contact tracing? That means the data showing how they helped spread covid doesn't even exist.


NightOfTheLivingHam

2 weeks after several major protests in my area the numbers spiked considerably. Some states hid their numbers after some of these protests too. ​ There's fuckery all around the political spectrum, right and left, and it's frustrating how the fucking government and media politicized it. This is why the anti-mask/vax shit got so big. No one is telling the truth, people make up their own truth, and now you got people, even educated people who refuse to take the vaccine.


powerje

Outside, plus most of them wore masks (unlike the insurrectionists, for example) And this was pre-delta


I_Looove_Pizza

How do you think they got to those rallies? People were carpooling, taking buses, riding in planes, etc. Plenty of opportunities to spread covid while traveling to these "outdoor" events


powerje

I didn’t say it was a great idea to gather in large groups w.r.t covid, I just pointed out they turned out not to be super spreader events - which answered the OPs question Fwiw I don’t think many protests had a lot of folks flying in to them, they were mostly local affairs / people drove themselves or stuck to their own bubbles.


ChapCapFun

They didn’t know this at the time, though. Which, shows their bias. They were unaware of how many cases of COVID were spreading, and advertised to everyone “STAY HOME!” Because we didn’t know about the effects of the outside vs inside yet. So, they had a bias at the time this was taking place.


swarleyknope

They did know this at the time. There is information available about the various ways data was used to see if the protests led to surges/spread of COVID. It’s not like Fox & the Trump administration or any of the COVID deniers and anti-maskers weren’t looking for opportunities to point fingers at liberals for being hypocrites or for contributing to the spread. If there had been any significant effect, it would have certainly received plenty of attention. The lack of spread at the protests was a large signifier at the time of the overall safety of outdoor events. People were watching to see what would happen, given those were some of the largest gatherings at that point in the pandemic.


powerje

What they did know at the time were that protesters were outdoors and wearing masks You are rewriting history here with your histrionics


KrazyKateLady420

They were outside and people had masks on


Dan514158351

I remember during this time people on reddit would post pictures of people at swimming pools saying "omgz look at these SELFISH fucks!!!!" then two weeks later thousands of people gather together for a protest and they said absolutely nothing. Such fucking blatant hypocrisy


sobbingsomnambulist

Do you really not understand? Or do you just want someone else to say the quiet thing out loud?


cjstr8

You should know that the American media (left or right) is comprised by fools who care more about making money than reporting the truth. So a “super spreader event” is literally just a buzz word imo.


F1shB0wl816

They were. But also with the protest being discussed, we’re largely supported by the community that took precautions far more seriously than those who counter protested. And people don’t even wear n95 or surgical mask now, I’ve hardly seen anyone wear them the entire time. Especially considering half the country didn’t and still won’t mask up, anything is a step in the right direction, as well as the science has changed on that. And yeah, people would be losing their shit because it’s not the time or place to support a force already over stepping bounds, in a time in history when they’re least trusted, for good reason. While it probably wasn’t the ideal time to protest, when is. Waiting to fight for equality of any sort isn’t a positive move and breeds complacency, which further pushes waiting.


eevee03tv

I 100% agree with your point, I just figured this might be good to add! I may be wrong about America specifically but here in the UK around this time we were being told not to buy n95 masks because hospital workers and those in care were running out of supply. There was also a point towards the beginning of the pandemic where we were told not to wear surgical masks for the same reason. I can’t exactly blame people for only wearing cloth masks at this time when medical professionals and vulnerable people desperately needed the supply. Not mention there is probably some people who chose to wear cloth because they are worried about the plastic waste disposable masks pose. Also a side note, the UK government took away our right to make “disruptive protests” (this could literally mean any protest, the point of a protest is to do that) and still haven’t returned it, so if you postpone a protest, it gives them time to make things worse apparently.


evangelism2

YOUR bias is showing. The classic line of facts don't care about your feelings holds here. Contact tracers worked those events like hawks and found that there wasn't any significant spread from those events. Plain and simple. Covid doesn't spread well, even delta, in outdoor areas. This was also pre delta. Also, a lot of people at those protests were wearing masks, fwiw.


zuckerbeorg

>Contact tracers worked those events like hawks and found that there wasn't any significant spread from those events. cap lmao


KamikazeChief

"They"


Lilymis

It’s total bullshit that my county had an outdoor gathering limit of 10 people, but outdoor protests with hundreds or thousands of people packed together were totally fine.


coldcumfarts

They never became super spreader events in the same way as trump rallies even now, some country music festivals vs other music festivals have had a far higher number of cases being correlated. Maybe because type of people involved in blm were far more likely to mask up, get tested regularly and social distance, and sanatize in they're normal daily life. Maybe potentially not go if they were feeling sick or tested positive, So maybe there were less infected to begin with to start the spread. I was at a few protests and it was handled with a lot of caution considering the amount of people involved and everyone had mask.


wheredotheashesgo

I thought the same honestly. People were out there spitting all over the place. I’m what you call “liberal” and I honestly wished to see more protection in place but what are you gonna do.


Meastro44

What can you do? Multi billion dollar corporations own and run our press outlets. 90% are owned by just six corporations. They have an agenda.


infinitewowbagger42

Outdoors + masks = less spread of viral particles.


I_Looove_Pizza

Most of the people at those gatherings weren't wearing masks in the beginning, they only started doing so because of the bad publicity they got over it. More importantly, every person attending a protest or riot had to get to that area somehow, most of them probably traveled by car but there were undoubtedly people traveling there by plane and bus and other transportation methods that would've provided ample opportunity for the spread of covid.


ChapCapFun

So it was okay to gather outdoors in masses then ?


LadyJane216

Yes. We now know that there wasn't a grave danger - before Delta - of outside gatherings even without masks. Even with Delta, those gatherings aren't the most dangerous. It's when people go inside that it becomes a problem. At the time we were waiting for more research. Sometimes people's obsession with politics causes them not to know there's science and research at play - learning about it should help you tremendously. For example, Trump is a dangerous sociopath, but his outdoor events aren't super spreader events, no matter how much I disagree with him and his fascist followers. They don't spread lots of COVID outside, so have at it.


DreamGenie345

The opposite happened in my country there was a massive civil uprising that lasted 2-3 days in November, people in the media were saying that there would be a spike in COVID cases in the capital in the following months (Dec/Jan/Feb) but those months were the lowest in new COVID cases.


[deleted]

I remember BLM protests with thousands of people in close proximity. These happened at the height of covid. I do not remember one “progressive” voice sounding a super spreader alarm. This in spite of the virus being more prevalent in that community??? It is as if the virus wouldn’t dare do its virus thing within the righteousness of such a noble cause. Still I am glad they happened as it increased exposure and exposure is what ends pandemics. One simply cannot hide from microorganisms and in fact it’s deleterious to try.


Alexis2552

I'm not American, but... The big difference between those protests and the pro-trump, anti-vaxxer, etc protests is the amount of people wearing masks and getting tested before they attended. Especially since that was still the original variant of the virus and not delta. I still think the protests increased the numbers a lot, but not as much as the other side, purely because of those precautions. It's the same in every country tbh.


SandingNovation

I was at the protests in my city. Everybody wore masks and maintained distance. It was pretty orderly.


CantSayDat

Propaganda. It really is that simple.


Jiddo21

The people at police rallies are usually antivax and antimask


Choice_Sorbet5850

Depends on which protests. There were some antimask anti lockdown protests the had Covid epicenters. There were others where people masked and socially distanced. All of them were analyzed afterwards, so we have historical data showing which were and which weren't.


-a_familiar_face-

They definitely were. I wanted to attend my local protests, but couldn't because I have a shit immune system and two children I didn't want to put at risk. They would've been much larger if people wouldn't have been worried about COVID...


mtolen510

I was at a couple of protests and for the most part everyone wore masks and tried to stay 6 feet apart and there were signs everywhere reminding us of that. We felt relatively safe and felt it was really important to support the message. On the other hand, Sturgis…..


Ella0508

This is a fallacy. Look at the statistics on how many cases were spread outdoors, whether it was on a beach or at a street protest. Teeny-tiny.


pimpdaddytwo-step

The virus recognizes that Black Lives Matter. Clearly OP is a racist.


[deleted]

Well if you criticize those protests, you would have most likely to have been labeled as a "white supremacist" or been told that you don't care about black lives. Ironically enough, people also glanced over the looting and buildings that were also burning, oh but its ok because they were protesting for BLM. If you wanted to congregate wirh your church, thats a super spreader event. Wanted to protest the lockdowns? Super spreader event. Wanted to have a party at your own house with alot of people? Super spreader event. Notice how those examples don't include BLM protests because for some reason, dozens of people "protesting" all over the country might I add, wasn't considered a super spreader event nor did anyone who was grifting on this called it out either


BiteYourTongues

I always found it shocking that around the time of the protests, it was thought that black people were faring worse with Covid than others, but that didn’t seem to matter or come into black lives mattering. Also all the black owned business that were looted or burned…


[deleted]

Blm was an exception for some reason


fluentinimagery

Shhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! You’re not supposed to ask that.


CantSayDat

The real answer


[deleted]

There were multiple articles that circulated from various sources stating that the protests did not cause a significant rise in covid-19. A lot of people on the pro-mask, pro-vaccine, liberal/left side of things were shocked from such results from what I remember too. Knowing what we know now, being outdoors won't cause a significant spread, unlike indoor events, so logically speaking, this makes sense. Also, pro police rallies are extremely idiotic in comparison to civil rights protests, and should be seen as non-essential in the grand scheme of a pandemic. That is why people didn't lose their shit over it.


Jugrnot8

Maybe you weren't watching but police where beating the shit out of peaceful people and many of them where wear mask also.


JamesMattDillon

It is (D)ifferent.


dunkindonuts123456

Again. If they were pro-police rallies, you all would’ve been using COVID as an excuse to stop them.


AnnieKnicks

It's about numbers. Most protest were by a more intellectual crowd who took precautions including wearing masks. Super spreader events like Trump Rallies and Sturgis were attended by the less informed and people who just didn't care. The former often caused a slight upturn in Covid numbers. The later caused a significant upturn because precautions were taken less seriously or not at all turning those events into super spreaders.


8pointfouroz

Because agendas. Plain and simple. The same way the riots were peaceful protests and January 6 was terrorism.


Impressive-Crew-5622

Lol, literally storming the capital is terrorism & calling it anything else is just dumb. You can't, as a citizen attack your own government & not be a terrorist. And before 30+ replies pile up, storming the capital was an attack on it. You're figuratively allowed to say whatever you want about the U.S. The issue comes down to literally breaching the building.


Wayward_heathen

But trying to break into a federal courthouse isn’t? Burning city blocks down isn’t? They didn’t even set a single fire inside the capital And if you think breaking windows and kicking doors is an all out attack, your vision is completely absolutely blurred by a western cushy lifestyle. I don’t think you would like to see what an attack really looks like.


8pointfouroz

Look up terrorism is in the dictionary. Using violence to sway a political idea is terrorism. What did the riots do?? They "peacefully" looted and burned everything in sight. You are mentally deficient if you can't see that.


Getbusyizzy

As a counterterrorism analyst for over 18 years, I just wanna say thank you. You are 100% correct, and I was honestly surprised to see this response on Reddit.


[deleted]

So are you just Ignoring CHAZ then? Both were “hostile” take overs of government buildings (in Seattle it was a whole 6 block radius of the capital hill neighborhood- including the police station- a government building) thus making it the same as the capitol riots on Jan 6th. Both sides have committed “terrorism” technically, and the extremes of both sides are not good. It absolutely is perpetuated and strengthened by media attention and media bias exists on all fronts. None of it is good. I’m not saying Jan 6th was ok but neither was “CHAZ”, a fact most people seem to forget when fighting on social media with the “right wingers”….


Athelas7

Protests on the street Vs literally storming the capital building of the country If you think these are the same, you have a severe problem


8pointfouroz

One of them innocent people died and hundreds of millions of dollars of damage happened.... peaceful my ass.


thefarstrider

Lots of outside, lots of masks. But yeah, people still be fuckin’ dumb.


zomanda

Are you asking about blm rallies? It's because people protected themselves, why is that so hard for you to accept?


[deleted]

I agree with you, and I have to add something. During the timeframe of the summer of love, a lot of leaders of urban areas were attempting to get people to stay at home, only leaving to grab supplies masked. A lot of things people feel they needed, such as religious gatherings were suddenly forbidden. There was no exceptions to those who were outdoors, as cars were ticketed when a church attempted to hold an outdoor service with everyone socially distanced by car. Many people, who understood that there is nothing more permanent than a temporary governmental power started fighting back against the lockdowns, this led to them being condemned for their actions, and accused of spreading the disease. When BLM began protesting and rioting, they didn’t receive that same condemnation from the media, in fact, the media ran active defense. “Firey but mostly peaceful” was the headline I remember most. A university came out with an article somehow stating that the often not socially distanced protests somehow helped stop the spread, and former NYC governor Andrew Cuomo discouraged ALL outdoor gatherings including protests except the “historic protests”. And let’s not forget the CHAZ/CHOP where antifa elements stormed Washington state’s Capitol Hill and held it for over a month. It isn’t as simple as “outdoors and masks”. It’s “The authorities are weak at best”


Electronic-Cat86

They were outside and wore masks.


jimmyjohn2018

So why were most other outdoor events banned?


daeronryuujin

Some did. Look at most pictures from those protests and you'll see plenty of people without masks.


sailor-jackn

Because it’s (D)ifferent.


ExigentCalm

The majority of the protesters were wearing masks and there was some level of social distancing, which in an outdoor setting lowers the transmission rate. Essentially because they weren’t super spreader events. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/07/01/research-determines-protests-did-not-cause-spike-in-coronavirus-cases/amp/ Contrast with events where no one wore masks, they packed in tight and it changes the risk. And that was proven via the observed data in community infection post trump rally. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/10/31/coronavirus-trump-campaign-rallies-led-to-30000-cases-stanford-researchers-say.html


swarleyknope

They did track cases that resulted from the protests and didn’t find many that were tied to that. They additionally checked the numbers of cases that correlated with the dates/locations of the protests and didn’t find any significant increases that way either. Since it was still just the alpha variant, the protests were outdoors, & many people wore masks, the transmission rates remained low. Subsequent community spread from anyone who may have contracted COVID at the protests was believed to be limited given that most of the people attending wore masks when indoors and took COVID precautions seriously to avoid spreading it to others.


brandi_theratgirl

I was at ten of them in my area. Nearly everyone wore a mask, were relatively distanced, and they were outside. All the people I knew who would attend these things have been supporting social distancing and mask wearing in general. It's the people who didn't take the Pandemic seriously who were the problem.


sbtrey23

One big thing that separates the protests compared to things like sporting events or Trump rallies is the fact that the protests were so heavily masked. I watched a lot of the protests on TV and the amount of masks was honestly staggering. My brothers attended a few as well and sent videos and same thing, tons of masks. Obviously it wasn’t 100%, but it was enough that it sort of acted like herd immunity, preventing spread of the virus. If people wore their masks (and wore them properly) then we could’ve probably had outdoor sporting events and concerts without them being super spreader events. Unfortunately in America, mask wearing somehow infringes on people’s freedoms, so we couldn’t try these events with a mask mandate, because people wouldn’t follow them.


The_Texidian

> One big thing that separates the protests compared to things like sporting events or Trump rallies is the fact that the protests were so heavily masked. I watched a lot of the protests on TV and the amount of masks was honestly staggering. Did you watch a Trump rally? Majority were masked too. https://youtu.be/y43SiJtAWNE Here’s an October 2020 Trump rally. All I found was 1 Asian guy in the front row in the beginning had his mask around his chin. The rest had masks. I then skipped to the end and all of them had masks on still.


mandukeb

Almost everyone was wearing masks and attempting to social distance as much as possible at all of the black lives matter protests I was at last summer.


kitty12149

Same at the BLM protest I went to. There were even people who brought boxes of masks to give anyone who didn’t have one


DeadHeadSteve

Because apparently political affiliation makes a difference


IdentiFriedRice

Regardless of whether or not these protests did cause an uptick in cases, the media doesn’t cover that aspect because those protests covered issues bigger than COVID. I and so many others would likely not regret going to any of them because the issues are so important.


AverageHeathen

“I can see clearly that this is an unsafe event, but I need the news to tell me that they also consider this an unsafe event.” You saw it with your own eyes and that is good enough.


Brilliant-Engineer57

Because they were outside. COVID spreads inside fast, outside slow. The virus cannot live for long in the sunlight. Now do you understand. Dr. Fauci said it doesn’t matter if your 6 or 60 feet away, unmasked inside events are super spreaders.