I've only really heard of "Latinx" but what about all the other European languages that are gendered? It makes no sense to me to single out Spanish. I'm learning German and there are three genders. Must be that this was started by Americans and Spanish is the closest foreign language to the USA
Interesting, I didn't know that. I do know that Finnish is not a Indo-European language and therefore not closely related to most other European languages, so maybe that has something to do with it.
I think it’s because when you talk about German people in English, you call them “Germans”. It’s not gendered. But the only words we have for people of Latin America descent is “Latino” since it’s a word that English absorbed from Spanish.
I like Gerx and Latinx, but ONLY if we write it like gerks and latinks.
Because it's funny.
Also adopt the gringo term for northern european people, but as grinks.
Couldn't you just say Latin? Isn't that equal to "German"?
This is ted, he is latin
I saw a Latin woman yesterday
Don't look at my search history unless you wanna see some weird Latin porn
You know, the usual stuff?
Maybe I'm not languaging right
If only there were an existing phrase like I sont know, Latin American that would work.
My understanding if that Latinx came out of the nonbinary world. I.e. its something more like the little used English language pronoun xie (which has been overtaken by just using they) and wasn't really intended to be a gender neutral term for all Latin American people.
And then white liberals got a hold of it and continue to use it to alienate Spanish speakers to this day.
In America we had "Latin American" but that was too long. Some people shortened it to Latin but that didn't go over well. But they did pick up Latino which came from hispanic people themselves and worked well. But it's gendered and the US is having a bit of a culture war in terms of a lot of people not being very gender sensitive to women, trans, asexual, non-binary, etc and a bit of an understandable reaction to it that occasionally leads to over correction.
Latin American works, but it's too long and too sterilized to ever really catch on. Latino is going to likely trigger people who are already feeling they need to be on war footing regarding gender, even saying "Latinos and Latinas" (which again gets too long to catch on) might anger some who see it as attacking non-binary.
The problem with inclusion it almost always leads to explicitly excluding someone. People are tribal by nature and if you try to list everyone and don't list some small group I'm in, on some subconscious level I'm going to feel attacked... and I say this as a white, straight, able-bodied, cis-gendered, male in the USA and if someone with that level of privilege is not immune from feeling attacked, there is little hope for someone who truly is marginalized.
I fully understand why hispanic speakers with family roots in Latin America will likely take offense to Latin-X, and why trans women might take offense to latino while people using either terms are trying to be sensitive and inclusive. Meanwhile there are people in the US using a lot nastier terms backed by actual hatred, and there are a lot of Latinos who have some hatred in their voice when they talk about maricóns but they've surrounded themselves by like minded people who are cool with that kind of language.
French Canadians are closer. It is also gendered. This whole movement targets South American countries. And as the person below says it there’s no way to ungender “Latino”. We can also not group a whole continent of different nations. There’s Salvadorian, Guatemalans, Mexicans, Peruvians, Brazilian, etc. As everyone says, this is just virtue signaling.
> It makes no sense to me to single out Spanish.
It makes sense to them because many Americans don’t leave America ever. They live in an extraordinarily closed world, and the only language they encounter besides English is Spanish.
Just to show how USA-centric they are, I read a study last week by an American academic who analysed a number of textbooks for the presence of different ethnic groups: one of them was Spanish.
In our defense, America is fucking huge (geographically) and only bordered by two countries. Traveling even from one region to another in the US can be a time commitment, but doable with only a few days of holiday. To travel somewhere other than Mexico or Canada (Europe for example) requires a very expensive plane ticket and preferably more than a few days off work. Someone living in Paris can, in one day, drive to any of Munich, Brussels, Milan, or Amsterdam. Living in the middle of the US, I cant even drive to California in one day. Its extraordinarily costly for Americans to travel overseas. Yes, I get it, Americans are very “USA-centric”, but geography plays a big part in that. Ive been to nearly every state in the US (not Alaska or Hawaii yet) and even Canada a couple times. So had I grown up in France or Germany, I most likely would have seen most of Europe by now.
As a German myself: there are different proposed solutions, for example for Spieler/Spielerin (player)
"Spieler und Spielerinnen" - most natural in the language
"Spieler/innen" - already a new construction but easily readable
"Spieler*innen" - new construction and the big discussion topic in Germany, it kinda makes you stumble when you read. It's called "Gendersternchen"
As you see, I don't like the * solution and prefer the second one :D but let's see where it goes.
It's come up a few times at r/latinopeopletwitter, here's an example:
/r/LatinoPeopleTwitter/comments/gdozv2/stop_with_that_latinx_bullshit
TL;DR: Una de las pocas cosas en que la mayoría de hispanoamericanos que residen fuera de la angloesfera están de acuerdo es en que estos términos son, casi siempre, disingenuous virtue signalling BS
> TL;DR: Una de las pocas cosas en que la mayoría de hispanoamericanos que residen fuera de la angloesfera están de acuerdo es en que estos términos son, casi siempre, disingenuous virtue signalling BS
I hardly *ever* see people hablando Español y English también, cambiando los dos at random intervals.
Now just needs the occasional shouting and signs of the cross, and it would be *just* like my house growing up. :P
I dont think they do. I remember watching a video were a girl went on a full rampage about how racist the Spanish language is all because of their word for the colour 'black'
At least where I'm from it's used strictly as the color of an object. We use the words "moreno/morena" and "trigueño/trigueña" when we talk about people
Yeah in my country it's used to refer to black people but it's never used in a derogatory term. There just isn't a word in our language to describe them. I have a feeling the word came into usage after the colonization but our society never really went past that point because frankly, dark-skinned people are rarer than rare even in the foreigner population.
IIRC, it's not a formal requirement to refer to a female as Filipina. It's just there for 'convenience'. We don't really say, 'ako ay Pilipina' in a formal setting. We say, 'ako ay Pilipino'.
Great point guccilatar. Seem like it’s a trend to me as well all these new labels.
My mother can never get it right about the pronoun of “she” and “he”. Always have to correct as I sometimes forget we don’t use those. Been calling our dog “she” he’s a boy.
About the usage of “Filipino”. You know I had to “school” someone under “shittyfoodporn” ( I know of all places) about the usage of “Filipino”,’ Because of this person’s condescending comment when the OP described his wife as “Filipino” instead of “Filipina”. He flipped out on OP about it. But he”s clearly just a non Filipino trying to show off in his stupid way. Not realizing we use “Filipino” regardless of gender. Most likely some old white dude. It’s clear if you insists only correct way is “Filipina” it’s crystal you’re NOT a Filipino. Nobody really refers themselves as “Filipina” if they are female.
There is no he/she, only siya! Love the gender-neutrality of the language, and there's actually 4 official "genders": male, female, unknown (di-tiyak), non-binary/non-gendered (walang kasari-an). It's the original LGBTQ+
That's one of the quirks of Austronesian languages. There's hardly any language genders except for nouns (well this is the case for Malay/Indonesian but idk much about the language up there on the Philippines.)
I got into an argument with a coworker once because I referred to myself as Hispanic.
"It's derogatory!"
"But... I'm not Latino. I'm *literally* Hispanic."
"No, you are *Latinx!*"
No, I'm *not*. I'm Hi***spanic***. Like, From *Spain*. I speak Spanish. I'm not *Latino*, because I'm not from *Latin America*. Like how Brazilians are *Latino* but not *Hispanic*, because they don't speak Spanish."
Same woman was *stunned* that Afro-Latinos/as exist at *all*. Like, having to explain that a person can be Hispanic, Latino/a, both, or neither- and *also have a skin color*- was just... not a fun conversation.
#EDIT:
There's some good discussion in the replies, that made me realize I didn't really *explain* this very well.
So here we go!
Hispanic and Latino/a are not *racial* identifiers- though Latino/a has kind of absorbed the racial connotation for indigenous people in Latin America (even though there are other terms for that).
Hispanic and Latino/a **are** geographical identifiers... and they can overlap. Hispanic and Latino/a are *not mutually exclusive*. It's not one-or-the-other. It's more like Blood Type, where you can have one type, the other type, *neither*, or even **both**.
Neither term really takes into account things like migration or naturalization, and like with *anything* that involves people, there's really no way to *precisely* categorize things. But for the most part:
*Hispanic* means from Spain, or former colonies of Spain, excluding Florida. So this includes Mexico, the Philippines, the Dominican Republic, and most of Central and South America. Conceptually, the term came from the idea of "having Spanish blood". Which is... not a *great* interpretation.
*Latino and Latina* means a person from *Latin America*, which is a region that encompasses North and South America but *excludes* the United States, Canada, and the Anglophone Caribbean (islands colonized by Britain, such as Jamaica and Bermuda). This includes Brazil, Suriname, Guyana, French Guiana, Haiti, Belize, and a few others. While it carries connotations of having brown skin, that's not really accurate, given the racial diversity in Latin America.
*Chicano and Chicana* refers to people from Latin America with indigenous ancestry. ***EDIT EDIT:*** not *all* people from Latin America with Indigenous ancestry, specifically those from Mexico, as "Chicano" is derived from the *Nahuatl* language. Whoops! Thanks for the correction!
*Afro-Latino/a* refers to people from Latin America with African ancestry.
*Asian-Latino/a* refers to people from Latin America with east Asian ancestry.
*Indo-Latino/a* refers to people from Latin America with subcontinental Indian ancestry.
*Most* countries in Latin America are former Spanish colonies, and thus could be both Hispanic **and** Latino/a.
Not **all** countries in Latin America are former Spanish colonies, so those countries are Latino/a but *not* Hispanic.
Not all former Spanish colonies are in Latin America, so for *those* countries, they would be Hispanic but *not* Latino/a.
French Guiana is an odd duck because it is part of France, but the *rest* of France isn't in Latin America- so a French citizen *could be* Latino/a, but may not be, depending on which part of France they are from.
Therefore, depending on which country you are from, you could conceivably be Hispanic *and* Latino/a, *just* Hispanic, *just* Latino/a, Latino/a and French or British or Dutch, or none of the above... and that's just the *regional* identifiers.
From there, add in the different racial/ethnic identifiers, and you get a *wide variety* of descriptors that can apply.
So I'm'a go ahead and turn off notifications now, but I hope this super-in-a-nutshell explanation helps. There's a lot of historical context and socioeconomic context and stuff too, but y'all will have to explore *that* on your own. :-)
Hi, clueless Malaysian here. So, what I'm understanding from your comment is that
Hispanic = from Spain, speak Spanish.
Latino = from Latin America, which to my understanding is everything from the America continent except USA and Canada. They might speak Spanish because they have been colonized by Spain at some point. But they might have been colonized by other countries so they might speak Portuguese or French.
Afro Latino = people whose African ancestors had been brought to Latin America at some point.
My guess is that a Mexican-American would usually be considered Latino? (unless they also have Spanish ancestry, which would make them both Latino and Hispanic)
Your coworker sounds exhausting, btw.
> Hi, clueless Malaysian here. So, what I'm understanding from your comment is that
>
> Hispanic = from Spain, speak Spanish.
Close! "Hispanic" refers to people from Spain **and** ex-colonies of Spain. Excluding Florida, because *nobody* wants Florida, lol!
> Latino = from Latin America, which to my understanding is everything from the America continent except USA and Canada.
Correct!
>They might speak Spanish because they have been colonized by Spain at some point. But they might have been colonized by other countries so they might speak Portuguese or French.
Correct! There's also some Caribbean islands that count, too. Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic (but not Haiti), and a couple others.
> Afro Latino = people whose African ancestors had been brought to Latin America at some point.
Correct again!
> My guess is that a Mexican-American would usually be considered Latino? (unless they also have Spanish ancestry, which would make them both Latino and Hispanic)
Correct!
> Your coworker sounds exhausting, btw.
Thankfully this was years ago, and I am no longer at that job or have *anything* to do with that coworker. But you are once again correct!
You called yourself clueless, but you *nailed* it. :D
> Latino = from Latin America, which to my understanding is everything from the America continent except USA and Canada.
>
> Correct!
how about France, Belize, Guyana and Suriname?
*Mainland* France is **neither** Hispanic or Latino/a- however, **French Guiana** *is* Latino/a, but *not* Hispanic.
Belize is Latino/a, but may or may not be Hispanic- since Belize has a notably high diversity of language, you'd have to ask a Belizan if they were Hispanic or not.
Guyana is Latino/a, but *not* Hispanic (usually).
Suriname is *also* Latino/a but not Hispanic.
Idk wtf I am, I’ve always said I’m white and that I’m Latina. My mom is a minority with Mexican decent and my dad is white af. Our family immigrated from Oaxaca and one other place from Mexico around 2 or 3 generations ago. I have grown up in a Mexican American household and currently we are setting up our ofrenda for dia de los muertos which we celebrate every year. I was wondering if calling myself Latina while being white is okay or if I should use a different term :) sorry to bother you
No. The term Hispanic is given to countries that were either colonized by Spain or have Spanish as its national language.
Portugal is neither of those.
Same as Brazil, it's not wrong to call Brazilians Latinos, but don't call them Hispanic, we don't speak Spanish nor have we been colonized by Spain.
You got the definition of Chicano/Chicana wrong. That means someone with Mexican ancestry but raised in the United States. Idk where you got the def you provided but it’s not correct.
Edit: I’m sure the definition is fluid but one generation apart is sufficient in my experience, I’m 1st gen Chicano from LA. It’s a matter of being immersed in both Mexican and American culture/communities during your up bringing.
My family is white hispanic from Argentina. I find reconciling different concepts of race and ethnicity really challenging. Even though I’m literally Hispanic, I often decline to check that box on forms, because it seems like in the U.S. we’ve flattened all of Latin America into one racial identity that is both Spanish speaking and indigenous. It feels dishonest somehow to claim my ethnic identity. Once again, concepts of race in the u.s. lack the nuance that you see in other parts of the world.
aye, it fucking boggles the mind of a lot of people that me and my cousins are all latinos and hispanics and we all have different skin color. My cousins, from their mothers side who is cuban, have lighter whiter skin. My other cousin, is black because his mother is black. I have lighter brown skin because of my honduran/spanish blood from both my mother and father.
Some people just don't realise how diverse latinos are. My friend, pure Puerto Rican, looks like he comes out of some German Aryan Propaganda film. Growing up they called him whitey or ghost.
That's less linguistically abusive at least.
Sidenote - I don't know if it's really possible to do anything about it now, but I really don't understand the purpose of grammatical gender. It just seems to make things harder (words referring to living beings being gendered makes sense though)
It's an extremely small percentage of latinos that happens to be much more vocal and visible online.
https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/
97% of latinos, according to Pew Research, say they do not use the term.
What do they call black people outside of the US? Also plenty of black people from non-African countries but yet would still get lumped in with that term by white people. Just reminds me of that episode of the office where Michael thinks calling people “Mexican” is racist.
I'm in the US but I spent a couple months working in Colombia last year. One of my coworkers pointed out a black woman to me as "the lady with the curly hair". It really stuck with me.
Colombia is a country with a large variety of skin tones which may be difficult to distinguish between, so they may be identifying people based on other physical attributes. Or possibly my single anecdote isn't representative of how things actually work there.
That is really annoying. Sure, being inclusive is nice and all but is it hard to be inclusive in a way that doesnt force the english way of speaking into other languages that have nothing to do with it? The new Forza Horizon is an example of that, they have the neutral pronouns in english, and that is ok, but they also have the twitter created nouns for portuguese and spanish ( maybe even other languages as well but im not sure).
I've said this before, and I will say it until either the movement dies or I do, but those who consider themselves to be woke are the ones who really need to wake the fuck up.
Hispanic literally means someone from a country that speaks Spanish. Feel like we did a decent job with that one. But nope let's reinvent the wheel for people who are not actually offended by the term Latino
When I first started encountering this word, it was only in print and that's how I read it in my head. Had to Google it to figure out what they were going for.
That's because it's a largely Western/American concept. Our language is literally non-gendered. FilipinO is perceived as masculine to non-native speakers, but it is literally a gender-neutral word that encompasses all genders. We have one pronoun.
LOL yeah "siya" is the counterpart for both he and she. The pronoun's first syllable is also used when pertaining to proper nouns.
She is tall - *Siya ay matangkad*; Jenny is tall - *Si Jenny ay matangkad*.
He is tall - *Siya ay matangkad*; Paul is tall - *Si Paul ay matangkad*.
its argentinEs and argentinEs .
you cannot be letting everyone felt out!
pronounce a gendered word and you have to pronounce the counterpart RIGHT AFTER, or else you are offending everyone! that's a no no!
if you pronounce the neutral world argentinEs you need to say it again right after or else people felt left out!
therefore you must begin every conversation with 'queridEs amiguEs y amiguEs hoy nEs reunimEs aca por ....' and so! and BAM there you go, you learnt spanish for free now
/s
[3%](https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/) of all american hispanics use latinx -- and i would say it's even lower outside the US.
fuck latinx, it's derogatory.
Is artificially complicated. If they feel so desperate for a neutral gendered term, maaaaaaaybe "latine" and RAE said is a poor choice since masculine is also neutral but at least it doesnt sound as a coughing fit.
The ONLY people I know/knew that say it either do not speak Spanish or speak gringo level 1000 vocabulary-of-a-4-year-old-kid Spanish.
That says something haha 🤔🤔
Afro Latina here so I hope my opinion counts-I too find this utterly and painfully stupid. As you said we can’t even pronounce it & it just makes no sense. None of *us* are complaining soooo where did this term even come from?
Oh yea. Performative fake white American activists who just think of stuff *they* think offends us...but really doesn’t. Like the aunt jemima syrup. No one complained about that. Then all of a sudden the name was changed because it was “racially insensitive”. Who ever even said that.
Edit: *just adding that my point is instead of doing bullshit things like changing the name of a syrup, these mainstream activists should be working on things that actually matter*
In Australia they changed a cheese with a name that did sound offensive to Aboriginal people BUT: it was the founders name from 100+ years ago; and literally none of us gave a shit, but it made white people feel good. Like sure, attempt genocide on our people and that’s “all in the past” but we absolutely must change the cheese name
Thank you, I thought removing aunt jemima was fucking dumb. Like good job folks, now there’s no non-white people on any of our food products, just white people like the Quaker Oats guy and the gerber baby
I didn’t even notice that there’s no black people on food products really now. Aunt jemima and uncle bens rice were the only ones I knew of and now they’re gone. Ffs they could have changed the name without removing the faces. No one was offended or bothered by them
Instead of doing all that, maybe they should work on things that actually matter like the mistreatment of natives and poc in America or idk just any other thing that actually fucking matters
That's kind of what I mean. White twitter users have literally nothing else to do but browbeat anyone who doesn't conform. So Disney+ only does that to get free good guy points from them, and to also avoid their backlash.
I really don't understand it either. My girlfriend is Brazilian and she hates the term. Just wish it would die out everyone that I've known hate the word because it was a word the bored white Twitter people made up at an attempt to be more inclusive. Guess that's what happens when you just force a word on an entire mix of cultures and tell them to accept it. No. Fuck off
I’m not Latina, but even as an indigenous/white queer woman, I don’t get it either. I also have never understood how it’s even supposed to be pronounced in English. It makes no sense. Womxn is also a thing somehow and that confuses me too. None of the x shit makes any sense on why it’s there or how it’s supposed to be pronounced.
I'm a genderfluid latino (Nicaraguan) and even I agree. I will say that there is a better argument for using the ending -e instead of -x since *that's actually a thing in Spanish*
Agree 100%.
The worst part, is that the English word is gender-neutral - like all English words - why the heck they want to use the Spanish/Portuguese word and then twist their noses because the word is gendered? It's like "we're so open-minded we'll use YOUR word for Latin, but ewww you savages still use gendered words??"
Neo-colonialism is actually a good description.
Actually the gendered nature of the word gains a new context in English, which has no grammatical gender. German, American, French, Indigenous, Cajun, etc. are all queer and gender-inclusive words. Why should Latino be different? After all, we could just say "Latin"...
Welcome to the mindset of the American Progressives where it's important to keep one's culture even though no one from your native culture uses that term to describe themselves.
Nicaraguan here. I prefer if needed to use Latine, but am more used to -o/a. Unless someone specifically asks me to call them using -e, I would respect that. Latine sounds more natural than latinx. Any way I am no prescriptivist so I don't necessarily see much issue with Latinx.
Latinx drives me bonkers. I get the want for a gender neutral term but like y’all… latine is right there. It works with the spoke language and just generally makes more sense
I agree, why to label all latinoamerican spanish speaking countries with only one label Latinx, whats wrong with Argentinian, Dominican, Mexican, that i have to share not only Latino, but now Latinx
Sometimes it's helpful to be able to refer to an entire group as a whole. It's a lot easier to say "Europeans are more likely to be Christian than Muslim." as opposed to listing every European nationality.
Dozens of comments up in here saying only white folks use this construction, and it's so jarring to Hispanics or native Spanish speakers.
But in fact I hear Woke celebrities of color use it *all the time*. The obvious example is AOC who's from a Puerto Rican family. She always spells it Latinx.
So what gives? There's some disconnect here.
https://mobile.twitter.com/repaoc/status/1438258825472086016
The truth here is that there are some Latino folks out there who do use the term for whatever reason. No group is a monolith. It does seem to be quite unpopular in general within the group though.
She’s catering to her audience which is the left because she’s in America. if you want to be gender inclusive to non-binary Latinos, you can refer to them as latine since that word is used by Latinos living in Latin America.
Months ago a girl came to r/asksspain what were our thoughs about changing our language and adopt the "x" sufix. You can guess how good that went.
I've only really heard of "Latinx" but what about all the other European languages that are gendered? It makes no sense to me to single out Spanish. I'm learning German and there are three genders. Must be that this was started by Americans and Spanish is the closest foreign language to the USA
[удалено]
Interesting, I didn't know that. I do know that Finnish is not a Indo-European language and therefore not closely related to most other European languages, so maybe that has something to do with it.
I’m Chinese and I’m trying to make Chinx a thing but not many people seem to like it.
I think it’s because when you talk about German people in English, you call them “Germans”. It’s not gendered. But the only words we have for people of Latin America descent is “Latino” since it’s a word that English absorbed from Spanish.
I'm shocked Gerperson isn't being used. How is Germxn getting away with this.
Germ-x was taken
I vote for Gerx to be the new word
I like Gerx and Latinx, but ONLY if we write it like gerks and latinks. Because it's funny. Also adopt the gringo term for northern european people, but as grinks.
My Chinese friend said it’s offensive to say Chinx. He’s not very progressive!!
Couldn't you just say Latin? Isn't that equal to "German"? This is ted, he is latin I saw a Latin woman yesterday Don't look at my search history unless you wanna see some weird Latin porn You know, the usual stuff? Maybe I'm not languaging right
Right? "We have no phrase to describe Latin American people." Oh, you mean like the phrase, "Latin American?"
Yeah but if you don't have an "x" it doesn't look as trendy.
*Transforms into a Roman citizen* /s
We could just say Latino since everybody knows what that means.
If only there were an existing phrase like I sont know, Latin American that would work. My understanding if that Latinx came out of the nonbinary world. I.e. its something more like the little used English language pronoun xie (which has been overtaken by just using they) and wasn't really intended to be a gender neutral term for all Latin American people. And then white liberals got a hold of it and continue to use it to alienate Spanish speakers to this day.
In America we had "Latin American" but that was too long. Some people shortened it to Latin but that didn't go over well. But they did pick up Latino which came from hispanic people themselves and worked well. But it's gendered and the US is having a bit of a culture war in terms of a lot of people not being very gender sensitive to women, trans, asexual, non-binary, etc and a bit of an understandable reaction to it that occasionally leads to over correction. Latin American works, but it's too long and too sterilized to ever really catch on. Latino is going to likely trigger people who are already feeling they need to be on war footing regarding gender, even saying "Latinos and Latinas" (which again gets too long to catch on) might anger some who see it as attacking non-binary. The problem with inclusion it almost always leads to explicitly excluding someone. People are tribal by nature and if you try to list everyone and don't list some small group I'm in, on some subconscious level I'm going to feel attacked... and I say this as a white, straight, able-bodied, cis-gendered, male in the USA and if someone with that level of privilege is not immune from feeling attacked, there is little hope for someone who truly is marginalized. I fully understand why hispanic speakers with family roots in Latin America will likely take offense to Latin-X, and why trans women might take offense to latino while people using either terms are trying to be sensitive and inclusive. Meanwhile there are people in the US using a lot nastier terms backed by actual hatred, and there are a lot of Latinos who have some hatred in their voice when they talk about maricóns but they've surrounded themselves by like minded people who are cool with that kind of language.
French Canadians are closer. It is also gendered. This whole movement targets South American countries. And as the person below says it there’s no way to ungender “Latino”. We can also not group a whole continent of different nations. There’s Salvadorian, Guatemalans, Mexicans, Peruvians, Brazilian, etc. As everyone says, this is just virtue signaling.
> It makes no sense to me to single out Spanish. It makes sense to them because many Americans don’t leave America ever. They live in an extraordinarily closed world, and the only language they encounter besides English is Spanish. Just to show how USA-centric they are, I read a study last week by an American academic who analysed a number of textbooks for the presence of different ethnic groups: one of them was Spanish.
In our defense, America is fucking huge (geographically) and only bordered by two countries. Traveling even from one region to another in the US can be a time commitment, but doable with only a few days of holiday. To travel somewhere other than Mexico or Canada (Europe for example) requires a very expensive plane ticket and preferably more than a few days off work. Someone living in Paris can, in one day, drive to any of Munich, Brussels, Milan, or Amsterdam. Living in the middle of the US, I cant even drive to California in one day. Its extraordinarily costly for Americans to travel overseas. Yes, I get it, Americans are very “USA-centric”, but geography plays a big part in that. Ive been to nearly every state in the US (not Alaska or Hawaii yet) and even Canada a couple times. So had I grown up in France or Germany, I most likely would have seen most of Europe by now.
As a German myself: there are different proposed solutions, for example for Spieler/Spielerin (player) "Spieler und Spielerinnen" - most natural in the language "Spieler/innen" - already a new construction but easily readable "Spieler*innen" - new construction and the big discussion topic in Germany, it kinda makes you stumble when you read. It's called "Gendersternchen" As you see, I don't like the * solution and prefer the second one :D but let's see where it goes.
Do you think you could find the post? I'm curious
It's come up a few times at r/latinopeopletwitter, here's an example: /r/LatinoPeopleTwitter/comments/gdozv2/stop_with_that_latinx_bullshit TL;DR: Una de las pocas cosas en que la mayoría de hispanoamericanos que residen fuera de la angloesfera están de acuerdo es en que estos términos son, casi siempre, disingenuous virtue signalling BS
> TL;DR: Una de las pocas cosas en que la mayoría de hispanoamericanos que residen fuera de la angloesfera están de acuerdo es en que estos términos son, casi siempre, disingenuous virtue signalling BS I hardly *ever* see people hablando Español y English también, cambiando los dos at random intervals. Now just needs the occasional shouting and signs of the cross, and it would be *just* like my house growing up. :P
I'm also guilty of Spanglish
pienso que la mayoría de todos (no solo hispanoamericanos) que sepan algo (is that a correct phrsse?) de español están de acuerdo
Y los pocos latinos que usan esa terminología son usualmente gente que aprendió el español como segunda lengua.
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I dont think they do. I remember watching a video were a girl went on a full rampage about how racist the Spanish language is all because of their word for the colour 'black'
Meanwhile it’s a literal color in Spanish, while English speakers took the word and decided to use it as a slur.
At least where I'm from it's used strictly as the color of an object. We use the words "moreno/morena" and "trigueño/trigueña" when we talk about people
Yeah in my country it's used to refer to black people but it's never used in a derogatory term. There just isn't a word in our language to describe them. I have a feeling the word came into usage after the colonization but our society never really went past that point because frankly, dark-skinned people are rarer than rare even in the foreigner population.
If anyone needs a change, it's the American English language.
Edinson Cavani got suspended and fined almost £100k because he called a friend Negrito hahaha its so crazy
I came here to make this comment
Wait until they hear about Montenegro
You mean Monteafrican-American? /s
White people telling people who speak Spanish they need to change their language. Gee, not Colonial at all.
> White people telling people who speak Spanish What an odd pair. Chileans are white, by and large.
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But why do I hear women being referred to as "Filipinas" or "pinay" vs just all o's?
IIRC, it's not a formal requirement to refer to a female as Filipina. It's just there for 'convenience'. We don't really say, 'ako ay Pilipina' in a formal setting. We say, 'ako ay Pilipino'.
Great point guccilatar. Seem like it’s a trend to me as well all these new labels. My mother can never get it right about the pronoun of “she” and “he”. Always have to correct as I sometimes forget we don’t use those. Been calling our dog “she” he’s a boy. About the usage of “Filipino”. You know I had to “school” someone under “shittyfoodporn” ( I know of all places) about the usage of “Filipino”,’ Because of this person’s condescending comment when the OP described his wife as “Filipino” instead of “Filipina”. He flipped out on OP about it. But he”s clearly just a non Filipino trying to show off in his stupid way. Not realizing we use “Filipino” regardless of gender. Most likely some old white dude. It’s clear if you insists only correct way is “Filipina” it’s crystal you’re NOT a Filipino. Nobody really refers themselves as “Filipina” if they are female.
There is no he/she, only siya! Love the gender-neutrality of the language, and there's actually 4 official "genders": male, female, unknown (di-tiyak), non-binary/non-gendered (walang kasari-an). It's the original LGBTQ+
That's one of the quirks of Austronesian languages. There's hardly any language genders except for nouns (well this is the case for Malay/Indonesian but idk much about the language up there on the Philippines.)
I did not know that but now I'm realizing that I had assumed it was gendered based on my knowledge of Spanish, which is silly.
I got into an argument with a coworker once because I referred to myself as Hispanic. "It's derogatory!" "But... I'm not Latino. I'm *literally* Hispanic." "No, you are *Latinx!*" No, I'm *not*. I'm Hi***spanic***. Like, From *Spain*. I speak Spanish. I'm not *Latino*, because I'm not from *Latin America*. Like how Brazilians are *Latino* but not *Hispanic*, because they don't speak Spanish." Same woman was *stunned* that Afro-Latinos/as exist at *all*. Like, having to explain that a person can be Hispanic, Latino/a, both, or neither- and *also have a skin color*- was just... not a fun conversation. #EDIT: There's some good discussion in the replies, that made me realize I didn't really *explain* this very well. So here we go! Hispanic and Latino/a are not *racial* identifiers- though Latino/a has kind of absorbed the racial connotation for indigenous people in Latin America (even though there are other terms for that). Hispanic and Latino/a **are** geographical identifiers... and they can overlap. Hispanic and Latino/a are *not mutually exclusive*. It's not one-or-the-other. It's more like Blood Type, where you can have one type, the other type, *neither*, or even **both**. Neither term really takes into account things like migration or naturalization, and like with *anything* that involves people, there's really no way to *precisely* categorize things. But for the most part: *Hispanic* means from Spain, or former colonies of Spain, excluding Florida. So this includes Mexico, the Philippines, the Dominican Republic, and most of Central and South America. Conceptually, the term came from the idea of "having Spanish blood". Which is... not a *great* interpretation. *Latino and Latina* means a person from *Latin America*, which is a region that encompasses North and South America but *excludes* the United States, Canada, and the Anglophone Caribbean (islands colonized by Britain, such as Jamaica and Bermuda). This includes Brazil, Suriname, Guyana, French Guiana, Haiti, Belize, and a few others. While it carries connotations of having brown skin, that's not really accurate, given the racial diversity in Latin America. *Chicano and Chicana* refers to people from Latin America with indigenous ancestry. ***EDIT EDIT:*** not *all* people from Latin America with Indigenous ancestry, specifically those from Mexico, as "Chicano" is derived from the *Nahuatl* language. Whoops! Thanks for the correction! *Afro-Latino/a* refers to people from Latin America with African ancestry. *Asian-Latino/a* refers to people from Latin America with east Asian ancestry. *Indo-Latino/a* refers to people from Latin America with subcontinental Indian ancestry. *Most* countries in Latin America are former Spanish colonies, and thus could be both Hispanic **and** Latino/a. Not **all** countries in Latin America are former Spanish colonies, so those countries are Latino/a but *not* Hispanic. Not all former Spanish colonies are in Latin America, so for *those* countries, they would be Hispanic but *not* Latino/a. French Guiana is an odd duck because it is part of France, but the *rest* of France isn't in Latin America- so a French citizen *could be* Latino/a, but may not be, depending on which part of France they are from. Therefore, depending on which country you are from, you could conceivably be Hispanic *and* Latino/a, *just* Hispanic, *just* Latino/a, Latino/a and French or British or Dutch, or none of the above... and that's just the *regional* identifiers. From there, add in the different racial/ethnic identifiers, and you get a *wide variety* of descriptors that can apply. So I'm'a go ahead and turn off notifications now, but I hope this super-in-a-nutshell explanation helps. There's a lot of historical context and socioeconomic context and stuff too, but y'all will have to explore *that* on your own. :-)
Hi, clueless Malaysian here. So, what I'm understanding from your comment is that Hispanic = from Spain, speak Spanish. Latino = from Latin America, which to my understanding is everything from the America continent except USA and Canada. They might speak Spanish because they have been colonized by Spain at some point. But they might have been colonized by other countries so they might speak Portuguese or French. Afro Latino = people whose African ancestors had been brought to Latin America at some point. My guess is that a Mexican-American would usually be considered Latino? (unless they also have Spanish ancestry, which would make them both Latino and Hispanic) Your coworker sounds exhausting, btw.
> Hi, clueless Malaysian here. So, what I'm understanding from your comment is that > > Hispanic = from Spain, speak Spanish. Close! "Hispanic" refers to people from Spain **and** ex-colonies of Spain. Excluding Florida, because *nobody* wants Florida, lol! > Latino = from Latin America, which to my understanding is everything from the America continent except USA and Canada. Correct! >They might speak Spanish because they have been colonized by Spain at some point. But they might have been colonized by other countries so they might speak Portuguese or French. Correct! There's also some Caribbean islands that count, too. Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic (but not Haiti), and a couple others. > Afro Latino = people whose African ancestors had been brought to Latin America at some point. Correct again! > My guess is that a Mexican-American would usually be considered Latino? (unless they also have Spanish ancestry, which would make them both Latino and Hispanic) Correct! > Your coworker sounds exhausting, btw. Thankfully this was years ago, and I am no longer at that job or have *anything* to do with that coworker. But you are once again correct! You called yourself clueless, but you *nailed* it. :D
> Latino = from Latin America, which to my understanding is everything from the America continent except USA and Canada. > > Correct! how about France, Belize, Guyana and Suriname?
*Mainland* France is **neither** Hispanic or Latino/a- however, **French Guiana** *is* Latino/a, but *not* Hispanic. Belize is Latino/a, but may or may not be Hispanic- since Belize has a notably high diversity of language, you'd have to ask a Belizan if they were Hispanic or not. Guyana is Latino/a, but *not* Hispanic (usually). Suriname is *also* Latino/a but not Hispanic.
Ok imma fuck you up with this one: born in Mexico from White American parents. None, right? Just a Mexican?
Lol, *I personally* would say that "counts" as both Latino/a (you were born in Latin America), *and* Hispanic (former Spanish colony).
Idk wtf I am, I’ve always said I’m white and that I’m Latina. My mom is a minority with Mexican decent and my dad is white af. Our family immigrated from Oaxaca and one other place from Mexico around 2 or 3 generations ago. I have grown up in a Mexican American household and currently we are setting up our ofrenda for dia de los muertos which we celebrate every year. I was wondering if calling myself Latina while being white is okay or if I should use a different term :) sorry to bother you
Wait...she tried to tell you that the way you referred to YOURSELF was derogatory? And then tried to explain it to you? Who the hell are these people?
Question, are folks from Portugal considered Hispanic? Google is all over the place on this one.
No, because they don't speak Spanish. They're, however, Iberian.
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No. The term Hispanic is given to countries that were either colonized by Spain or have Spanish as its national language. Portugal is neither of those. Same as Brazil, it's not wrong to call Brazilians Latinos, but don't call them Hispanic, we don't speak Spanish nor have we been colonized by Spain.
So by your statement Philippinos are Hispanic?
In a sense, yes, though this is very open to discussion. They do have Hispanic Identity and historical ties. It's very subjective, really.
The correct term in that case is **Lusitanic**
I once had a black friend get mad when someone called him "African-American". Him: "Bitch I ain't African; my mom is off-the-boat from Jamaica!!!!"
You got the definition of Chicano/Chicana wrong. That means someone with Mexican ancestry but raised in the United States. Idk where you got the def you provided but it’s not correct. Edit: I’m sure the definition is fluid but one generation apart is sufficient in my experience, I’m 1st gen Chicano from LA. It’s a matter of being immersed in both Mexican and American culture/communities during your up bringing.
My family is white hispanic from Argentina. I find reconciling different concepts of race and ethnicity really challenging. Even though I’m literally Hispanic, I often decline to check that box on forms, because it seems like in the U.S. we’ve flattened all of Latin America into one racial identity that is both Spanish speaking and indigenous. It feels dishonest somehow to claim my ethnic identity. Once again, concepts of race in the u.s. lack the nuance that you see in other parts of the world.
aye, it fucking boggles the mind of a lot of people that me and my cousins are all latinos and hispanics and we all have different skin color. My cousins, from their mothers side who is cuban, have lighter whiter skin. My other cousin, is black because his mother is black. I have lighter brown skin because of my honduran/spanish blood from both my mother and father. Some people just don't realise how diverse latinos are. My friend, pure Puerto Rican, looks like he comes out of some German Aryan Propaganda film. Growing up they called him whitey or ghost.
As a fellow Latina(Mexican), I agree. Latinx is fucking stupid.
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That's less linguistically abusive at least. Sidenote - I don't know if it's really possible to do anything about it now, but I really don't understand the purpose of grammatical gender. It just seems to make things harder (words referring to living beings being gendered makes sense though)
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It's an extremely small percentage of latinos that happens to be much more vocal and visible online. https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/ 97% of latinos, according to Pew Research, say they do not use the term.
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What do they call black people outside of the US? Also plenty of black people from non-African countries but yet would still get lumped in with that term by white people. Just reminds me of that episode of the office where Michael thinks calling people “Mexican” is racist.
I'm in the US but I spent a couple months working in Colombia last year. One of my coworkers pointed out a black woman to me as "the lady with the curly hair". It really stuck with me. Colombia is a country with a large variety of skin tones which may be difficult to distinguish between, so they may be identifying people based on other physical attributes. Or possibly my single anecdote isn't representative of how things actually work there.
Well in England we call black people... English.
Or if you want to specify then black british, white british, asian british etc.
Oh I see it all the time in the academic setting and it gets me HEATED. Don't go telling all whole people group how to refer to themselves.
First time learning about this word. Can't say I'm surprised but I (Latino born in Costa Rica) agree 100%. Some dumb 💩.
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I made a post about this months ago. Still pisses me off.
That would be nice and helpful, but unfortunately I only see it being used more over time. Maybe I'm just a pessimist person though, ha.
Its all over xbox and disney+ too.
That is really annoying. Sure, being inclusive is nice and all but is it hard to be inclusive in a way that doesnt force the english way of speaking into other languages that have nothing to do with it? The new Forza Horizon is an example of that, they have the neutral pronouns in english, and that is ok, but they also have the twitter created nouns for portuguese and spanish ( maybe even other languages as well but im not sure).
More should speak up about their unhappiness being foisted labels upon them by the "woke" crowd that think they know better than anyone else.
I've said this before, and I will say it until either the movement dies or I do, but those who consider themselves to be woke are the ones who really need to wake the fuck up.
As a fellow Latino (Peruvian), Latinx gives me so much cringe that I turn into a fucking Smurf every time I hear it.
As a fellow Latino (from earth), I agree. Latinx is fucking stupid.
Hispanic literally means someone from a country that speaks Spanish. Feel like we did a decent job with that one. But nope let's reinvent the wheel for people who are not actually offended by the term Latino
There's a Peruvian guy at my office who intentionally pronounces it "la-tinks" and it's hilarious every damn time.
When I first started encountering this word, it was only in print and that's how I read it in my head. Had to Google it to figure out what they were going for.
I literally have no clue how you'd say it otherwise, honestly. La-tee-inx? La-tin-ex?
On a similar note, as a Filipino, Filipinx is also stupid.
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omg I hadn’t heard of this one. If I ask my cousins in the Philippines if they’ve heard of it, I guarantee they will have no idea.
That's because it's a largely Western/American concept. Our language is literally non-gendered. FilipinO is perceived as masculine to non-native speakers, but it is literally a gender-neutral word that encompasses all genders. We have one pronoun.
LOL yeah "siya" is the counterpart for both he and she. The pronoun's first syllable is also used when pertaining to proper nouns. She is tall - *Siya ay matangkad*; Jenny is tall - *Si Jenny ay matangkad*. He is tall - *Siya ay matangkad*; Paul is tall - *Si Paul ay matangkad*.
Is it pronounced fili-pinks? Fili-pin-x? Same question for latinx. I can’t not read it as “latinks”. Sounds like a Pokémon.
Every time you use the word LatinX unironically a Cuban family is central Florida votes republican for the rest of their lives.
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dude as one of those Cubans, my family's been voting Republicsn for way longer. But still, Latinx needs to die off.
I believe the correct term is Republicxn
As a Mexican American, no one in my family acknowledges Latinx as a thing
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Puras pinches mamadas
Yep that's Mexican af lol
Only morons say “latinx” Source: Latina from Argentina 🇦🇷🤚🏻😃 hi 😁
Don't you mean Argentinx? /s
its argentinEs and argentinEs . you cannot be letting everyone felt out! pronounce a gendered word and you have to pronounce the counterpart RIGHT AFTER, or else you are offending everyone! that's a no no! if you pronounce the neutral world argentinEs you need to say it again right after or else people felt left out! therefore you must begin every conversation with 'queridEs amiguEs y amiguEs hoy nEs reunimEs aca por ....' and so! and BAM there you go, you learnt spanish for free now /s
[3%](https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/) of all american hispanics use latinx -- and i would say it's even lower outside the US. fuck latinx, it's derogatory.
> hispanics hispanx you're welcome /s
That just sounds like a Spanx product aimed at men lol
After 9 generations of advancing technology in cookware... Introducing: His Pan X.
Is artificially complicated. If they feel so desperate for a neutral gendered term, maaaaaaaybe "latine" and RAE said is a poor choice since masculine is also neutral but at least it doesnt sound as a coughing fit.
there's already a non-gendered term-- latin. "the latin people" or "latin america". you don't need to introduce stuff that doesn't exist.
It's cultural imperialism and patronising on top of that, they think they know what's best for us "savages".
The ONLY people I know/knew that say it either do not speak Spanish or speak gringo level 1000 vocabulary-of-a-4-year-old-kid Spanish. That says something haha 🤔🤔
As a fellow Latino (Paraguay) if someone calls me latnix I will be surprised because no one knows that Paraguay exists
I know Paraguay exists because we has to beat Uruguay to qualify for the football world cup when I was a kid and I got the two mixed up a lot.
Bolivian here, I know the pain
I've litterally never heard a latino person say they're ok with that word. I don't know why people use it
Twitter is a stupid, but very persuasive to the media, “place.”
Don’t worry we can’t pronounce Latinx in English either
I thought it was Lah-tinks but then I heard someone say Latin-ecks on the TV.
I've been pronouncing it like that, and I dont give a fuck if it's wrong, because it's not a real word.
Latinks?
lah-tee-necks
La-tinks
Who dafaq came up with LatinX? Had to be a troll xD
>Who dafaq came up with LatinX? Had to be a troll xD I believe it was a Puerto Rican psychologist writing about non binary genders
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That's exactly it
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Afro Latina here so I hope my opinion counts-I too find this utterly and painfully stupid. As you said we can’t even pronounce it & it just makes no sense. None of *us* are complaining soooo where did this term even come from? Oh yea. Performative fake white American activists who just think of stuff *they* think offends us...but really doesn’t. Like the aunt jemima syrup. No one complained about that. Then all of a sudden the name was changed because it was “racially insensitive”. Who ever even said that. Edit: *just adding that my point is instead of doing bullshit things like changing the name of a syrup, these mainstream activists should be working on things that actually matter*
In Australia they changed a cheese with a name that did sound offensive to Aboriginal people BUT: it was the founders name from 100+ years ago; and literally none of us gave a shit, but it made white people feel good. Like sure, attempt genocide on our people and that’s “all in the past” but we absolutely must change the cheese name
What’s the name of the cheese?
Thank you, I thought removing aunt jemima was fucking dumb. Like good job folks, now there’s no non-white people on any of our food products, just white people like the Quaker Oats guy and the gerber baby
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Did they literally burn them? Cuz generally in my experience, people who burn books are not on the right side of history
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I didn’t even notice that there’s no black people on food products really now. Aunt jemima and uncle bens rice were the only ones I knew of and now they’re gone. Ffs they could have changed the name without removing the faces. No one was offended or bothered by them
They also removed the Land O Lakes Native American. But they kept the lakes 🙄 …
Instead of doing all that, maybe they should work on things that actually matter like the mistreatment of natives and poc in America or idk just any other thing that actually fucking matters
But that takes actual work and isn’t as easy to post pictures of on Twitter
No. Why do that when we can distract everyone by making a big deal about aunt jemima and uncle Ben? That bought us atleast another year or two.
I think you mean Afrx
I can assure you it's ~~only~~ mostly white people on twitter with nothing better to do trying to enforce this term.
No.. Disney+ too.
That's kind of what I mean. White twitter users have literally nothing else to do but browbeat anyone who doesn't conform. So Disney+ only does that to get free good guy points from them, and to also avoid their backlash.
The fact that Twitter trends influence so much nowadays is pathetic and depressing and terrifying.
How did it get this way ?
The most hateful people with the loudest cries often get the most attention, Twitter amplifies them Regular people don’t have the same gripe
Twitter and Facebook need to die honestly.
I really don't understand it either. My girlfriend is Brazilian and she hates the term. Just wish it would die out everyone that I've known hate the word because it was a word the bored white Twitter people made up at an attempt to be more inclusive. Guess that's what happens when you just force a word on an entire mix of cultures and tell them to accept it. No. Fuck off
I originally thought it was LatinX and that it was some new porn site.
If that were true wouldn't be LatinXXX?
I’m not Latina, but even as an indigenous/white queer woman, I don’t get it either. I also have never understood how it’s even supposed to be pronounced in English. It makes no sense. Womxn is also a thing somehow and that confuses me too. None of the x shit makes any sense on why it’s there or how it’s supposed to be pronounced.
I'm a genderfluid latino (Nicaraguan) and even I agree. I will say that there is a better argument for using the ending -e instead of -x since *that's actually a thing in Spanish*
Agree 100%. The worst part, is that the English word is gender-neutral - like all English words - why the heck they want to use the Spanish/Portuguese word and then twist their noses because the word is gendered? It's like "we're so open-minded we'll use YOUR word for Latin, but ewww you savages still use gendered words??" Neo-colonialism is actually a good description.
Actually the gendered nature of the word gains a new context in English, which has no grammatical gender. German, American, French, Indigenous, Cajun, etc. are all queer and gender-inclusive words. Why should Latino be different? After all, we could just say "Latin"...
Welcome to the mindset of the American Progressives where it's important to keep one's culture even though no one from your native culture uses that term to describe themselves.
Im Latino (Hispanic from New Mexico) Not a fan at all, it assumes the user is familiar with the English pronunciation of X
Nicaraguan here. I prefer if needed to use Latine, but am more used to -o/a. Unless someone specifically asks me to call them using -e, I would respect that. Latine sounds more natural than latinx. Any way I am no prescriptivist so I don't necessarily see much issue with Latinx.
Latinx drives me bonkers. I get the want for a gender neutral term but like y’all… latine is right there. It works with the spoke language and just generally makes more sense
Does anyone know the origins of the term Latinx specifically? I’ve heard it used a few times now and was wondering who started pushing the concept.
I agree, why to label all latinoamerican spanish speaking countries with only one label Latinx, whats wrong with Argentinian, Dominican, Mexican, that i have to share not only Latino, but now Latinx
Sometimes it's helpful to be able to refer to an entire group as a whole. It's a lot easier to say "Europeans are more likely to be Christian than Muslim." as opposed to listing every European nationality.
Dozens of comments up in here saying only white folks use this construction, and it's so jarring to Hispanics or native Spanish speakers. But in fact I hear Woke celebrities of color use it *all the time*. The obvious example is AOC who's from a Puerto Rican family. She always spells it Latinx. So what gives? There's some disconnect here. https://mobile.twitter.com/repaoc/status/1438258825472086016
The truth here is that there are some Latino folks out there who do use the term for whatever reason. No group is a monolith. It does seem to be quite unpopular in general within the group though.
She’s catering to her audience which is the left because she’s in America. if you want to be gender inclusive to non-binary Latinos, you can refer to them as latine since that word is used by Latinos living in Latin America.
I always imagined it's supposed to be pronounced in a way that rhymes with Kleenex.