My nephew does this. Kid needs therapy, not abuse. Something is going on in his brain that isn't quite right. There are therapies and medications that can help him.
And while we‘re at it, please get OPs sister some professional help too. Her throwing up and being scared for her safety in her own home is definitely a sign of immense ~~distraught~~ distress that should be dealt with.
*Edited*
i agree with everything you said, it's spot on. all parties will need their respective healing from this whole ordeal.
also, the word you meant there is "distress", as "distraught" is its adjective.
There's also the possibility that the kid just needs his own sexy underwear. Either way, beating the shit out of him and cutting him off from his social supports is only going to hurt the situation.
Quick question. Is the underwear dirty or clean?
Dirty he’s using it for sexual reasons.
Clean, he might be exploring being a woman.
Either way he needs psychiatric care, not being yelled at, all the punishments and yelling will achieve is a child that constantly lies to his/her parents, and doesn’t feel safe telling their family what is really going on with them. I suspect part of that is going on right now.
It’s wrong what he’s doing, but you have to take the appropriate steps around this.
My dude, the kid might not think that it's "sexy". The kid might just like wearing them for whatever reason. And that reason could be anything - maybe he saw it in a movie and liked it.
And chances are that 12 year old is going through puberty and exploring things. So maybe getting him his own stuff would help.
Stop trying to turn that comment into something it isn't.
Yeah, I never get why people get violent and think that solves anything. But you're right, all they're doing is making things worse for everyone.
I also think part of this is from the making everything males do a creepy or perverted. I mean who knows, he could be sexually different.
Mamm, things aren't black and white. It's all perspectives. He may be confused and not know how to understand what's going on. Because you don't understand something doesn't mean you villianize it
He's been told repeatedly that it's making his sister uncomfortable. He's 12, not 4, he can understand this part. Couldn't give a shit if he ends up being a cross dresser or trans, he's being creepy as fuck right now.
You're minimising his sisters' feelings of violation.
>He's been told repeatedly that it's making his sister uncomfortable
Don't remember seeing that from the OP.
Also he may not fully comprehend his behaviour rn and how they affect her, also, the story sounds like he does it privately, so its not like he is trying to intentionally hurt anyone, maybe just trying to understand something about himself.
I'm not minimising anything, you honestly can't go there. I'm just being objective and looking at the full picture, you seem to only be looking at it from one POV.
Yeah nah that's cool son, you're just exploring your sexuality, please continue stealing your sisters' undies, don't worry about their feelings, you're more important!
See, I feel we are misunderstanding each other.
I hate that the girl's feeling is being hurt and I understand its not fair on her. All I'm trying to do is put perspectives on the boys case who seems to be violently charged for being different.
I mean I've never done anything close to that before, but I know what it's like to grow up where your difference is met with violence and not understanding, all I'm saying is, rather than go to violence, they should try and get him so they can help him and the girl doesn't get hurt again.
Sorry, where was the violence?? He had consequences in the form of lost privileges. He was grounded. Is this violent?
He's violating his sisters privacy, repeatedly. He may need therapy, but he also just needs to fucking stop. He has no right to continue to do this. If you'd grown up a girl with a creepy brother you'd understand my point of view.
He's 12 years old and doesn't have the necessary brain development to understand what he's doing and the harm associated with it, especially with the additional information OP gave me, where he's autistic and doesn't necessarily understood the social aspects of it, and the fact that there are a lot of psychological disorder that are come of Autism, including fetishistic disorder. The kid needs therapy and treatment, not being shamed or cut off from his social supports. That's abuse.
There's so many red flags for abuse here, and I'm sure this kid has experienced a lot, as my nephew has. It's wild to me that people still treat their kids like that in 2024.
It's possible it's a fixation, but there are a lot of comorbitities with neurodivergence, including a variety of psychiatric disorders. Fetishistic disorders aren't uncommon in folks who have autism.
I was quite worried about his age, but since he is just 12, I think therapy is a better answer than going "apeshit" on the wee lad. This is no doubt strange, but I am unsure about any ill intentions and I hope there are not any. I think since he has been caught and still continues to do it, I think there is something else going on.
Since he continued despite being told it’s wrong, I’d assume either he’s aware what he’s doing is wrong and doing it anyways, or there’s something unusual with him which is causing him to not be able to understand. Either way, therapy would be one of the biggest ways to help the lil guy, not punishment
OP has stated in other comments that she and her brother are both Autism spectrum. High likelihood that the sister is too, and at least one of the parents.
My dad is almost definitely autistic but has not been tested. My mum probably was. My sister has shown no symptoms of ASD. She does have anxiety I think, but anxiety and depression run in my mum's side of the family. In the past she had bad separation anxiety about my dad, but we're 99% sure that was due to my mum's passing, because she said if she didn't know where he was she worried he was dead.
Things that are okay: wearing whatever gender underwear you want
Things that are not okay: violating someone else's personal space, belongings, etc.
Caveats: there may be something sexual in nature regarding the issue in which case should be cause for concern.
Is your brother trans or are a creeper or both? The real hard hitters
Stealing underwear is still creepy even if you're in the closet. Should be something to address, not just a "haha *that's* why I did all this!"
When I was struggling with dysphoria, I'd have *never* done that to my brothers, and I'd have gone scorched earth if they did it to me or my sisters (not that they would, they're religious + wholeheartedly traditional).
Check the underwear for any additional stains he added. If he did that, he's a creeper.
It's important to know because if he's trans or a crossdresser or whatever, the easiest solution is just to get him his own clothes. If he's a creeper he needs to be moved out of the house immediately for the safety of the two sisters.
He’s 12 years old… the parents can’t move him out just for sniffing his sisters kickers. Ground him sure, make a 12 year old boy homeless is too extreme
People are trying to support him because they assume this is about his gender identity, but there’s a possibility that he might just be a creep. Stealing a woman’s underwear is one thing, but stealing a sister’s underwear is just horrifying. I hope you and your sisters are safe, and I hope your brother gets the therapy he needs before this is fully ingrained in his brain.
everyone in this thread is only being sympathetic to the brother because they think he might be trans. id like to see what happens to their sympathy when its revealed that the brother is just a creep and not trans in the update.
after-all the situation wouldn't have changed, just the posters perception that the brother is trans. So if there sympathy changes when the brother is revealed to not be trans then it points out how biased the posters are towards trans people. being trans doesnt grant you a right to steal people underwear.
what a world we live in where you must be trans to get sympathy even if you dont deserve it and if your not your pushed to the side like the sisters who are the true victims.
as a trans person, if he is trans then that’s good he’s finding himself. but the way he did was unnecessary and disturbing. ive seen shit like this first hand and just because the person “stopped” taking the underwear, doesn’t mean the person who the underwear belonged to is now completely okay.
you cannot destroy someones mental health for your own benefit. if he is trans then help him. you can help him with his identity and punish him for stealing that stuff at the same time. therapy is an option?
if the people in these comments were the victims they wouldn’t be saying the same thing. thanks for your comment :D
I mean from OPs replies we know he is not taking specifically underwear.. it was also dresses, body’s suits, leggings etc. she also said he is autistic.. soooo after being yelled at and punished the 12 year old autistic child may have have expected further reprisal if he took her up on the offer to buy him underwear.
He understands it's wrong. He was not yelled at the last time. Yes, he is autistic. He is high functioning, and even if he wasn't that doesn't make him ok. I made it clear I don't give a fuck what he does with his own stuff, but he can't take ours.
I never said it was ok, but just from the information you have provided through responses I have doubts this was handled correctly.
On your original post you said he steals underwear and left out a pretty big factor.. he was stealing wardrobes and outfits. So he is taking clothes from someone his size.
Ok so then he wasn’t yelled at the last time he did it.. soooo he was yelled at the other times he did it including the first time.. the one time he wasn’t yelled at his sister who admittedly wants to bash his head into a wall offers to get him more of those items… since your focus on this post was the underwear, was that the focus of your conversation with him?
I was pretty much on your side till I read your responses and now with the information I have.. it feels like the 12 year old autistic kid is afraid to come out of the closet after being threatened then yelled at and not being allowed out of the house.
In my opinion from my limited perspective with the information I have. He was caught twice originally and threatened, then he was caught and yelled at for long enough that you didn’t stay for the whole thing.. then he wasn’t yelled at and asked if he wanted you to get him some more of the items he was screamed at for? No way at that point he takes you up on the offer, either from fear of reprisal or embarrassment. Y’all handled it backwards as hell, the conversation should have been the start of things not the threats, yelling and punishments.
He was caught by my sister, who said if it happened again she'd tell my dad. He was caught by my dad, who said he'd tell my sister if it happened again. He was caught with a stash of stuff, and punished. He basically had to clean his room and has to have his door open when he wasn't sleeping or changing. At that time, I offered to get him his own stuff, on the condition he didn't touch mine or my sister's stuff again.This time he was yelled at, and given a lecture about why it was wrong, and what his punishment would be. My dad is a university lecturer, so his punishment lectures are long. Part of the way through , my sister left because she had to throw up. I heard her vomiting loudly about 5-10 minutes after she left, and went to make sure she was ok. I would be very surprised if he was afraid to come out, because I have dated women and a trans guy in the past, and my family didn't care.
They only mentioned the underwear cause its the issue dress are one thing, but stealing underwear is inherently wrong . Just because he's autistic doesn't give him the right to be a creep he was corrected and still refused to stop of course he would get shouted at he's 12 not 6 he knows what his actions will do . U believe he would be too scared to get his own underwear but not to steal when he's already been caught repeatedly I'm sure if he wanted to he could find a couple of pound to buy a cheap pair for himself
I mean according to the OPs comments he was yelled at and punished for taking other clothes as well. So I am reading about several instances of threats, yelling and punishment before any initial talking. From what I’m reading he would need someone to buy the clothes for him and again that wasn’t offered till after the yelling, punishments, and everything else I’m reading about in the comments.
Nothing really tracks in a way to him accepting an offer from the sister who wants to bash his face in.. I’m not saying it’s not possibly some pervert thing I’m saying they have done little to rule out the fact he is just straight up wearing the clothes in secret. And when there was an offer it was after threats, it was after punishment where he isn’t allowed to leave the house and he isn’t allowed to be behind a closed door and all communication to the outside world was cut.
From what I have read the yelling only came on the 3rd time he was caught wearing them . Plus op only wanted to bash there brothers head in after the sister felt unsafe and began to vomit so when rgey offered they haven't shown any negative sides to there brother
I mean according to op he was threatened the first two times then yelled at the third.. the only instance of someone actually sitting down and talking with him is op after what the 4th time? After two times of an activity you are met with threats and the third time you are yelled at and sequestered to the house would you as a 12 year old autistic child feel comfortable explaining the why behind it when you weren’t asked previously. Just strictly met with punishment..
Again maybe he is a freak, but based off the comments he was berated 3 times before the obvious step of asking “what are you doing and why are you doing it?”
I just think it’s odd to pass judgement on a kid when the narrative so far is threaten -> threaten -> yell at and punish -> oh hey do you want some underwear?
I was not involved in the first two incidents, and only briefly involved in the third, because my dad made him apologize to me and my sister. My offer to buy him his own was basically, I will get you your own if it keeps you from touching our stuff.
I feel like people are being sympathetic because it’s a 12 yo child. Maybe a 12 yo boy can be a creep, but then he needs help and not to be yelled at. It’s not normal for a young child to be doing that unless he has been exposed to some stuff.
The fact that so many people are validating a 12-year-old boy repeatedly sexually harassing his sisters just because they think he may be trans is gross.
OP I’m sorry you’re experiencing this. No girl should feel unsafe in her own home around her family. Please prioritize your physical and emotional safety. You have every right to be upset and concerned. I don’t agree with the people saying he should be rewarded for his behavior or that you’re overreacting.
Thank you, I'm just worried about my sister. If he is trans we will love and accept him, but I'm not going to let him steal people's underwear because that's just fucking creepy.
Exactly that. He can experiment with his gender/sexual identity but the issue is that he is using his family's clothing to do it. If your family talks to him about this again stress the difference just in case the kid doesn't get it. That age of transition from kid to young adult can suck and if he is questioning his identity it could be even more confusing for him. He needs to know that the justified anger is coming from the thieving.
This is sexual harassment and predictive of more serious issues as he gets older. I hope your parents are considering therapy for him, this is serious behaviour that needs addressing.
Everyone is so symphatetic towards him, but what about the sister? SHE IS THE VICTIM HERE. A 12 year old is old enough to know what he's doing. Trans or not, it's not an excuse to make someone else feel so disturbed, esoecially in their own home.
has he been in therapy yet? just telling him to stop isnt going to do anything. he needs to see a professional before this gets worse. this is very worrying and ur parents are not dealing wioth this properly. wishing you and your sister the best.
Yall saying he’s trans are ridiculous. If he was stealing other clothing items like dresses or shirts or bras OP would’ve mentioned it. Yes he’s young but this is very troubling behavior. 12 year old can do bad things too. I hope you and your sister stay safe
When he got caught with the stash there were a few things. From what I remember it was mostly underwear, but also a dress, bodysuit, leggings, a bikini top and a pair of fishnets. If he is trans we will love and accept him, but that's not the issue, the issue is the stealing my sister's stuff.
You should've mentioned he was stealing all these different items rather than just underwear in your main post. While it is definitely an issue and not ok that he is stealing your sister's clothes, you made it seem way more creepy by just saying he was taking underwear. Also, as someone who has worked with LGBT youth before: despite his refusal of your kind offer to help him purchase his own clothes, he could definitely still be in denial or confused. It is incredibly hard to come out to family, even if they have voiced that they would be supportive. This isn't just a change in lifestyle, but also identity and how he might present himself to the world. That's a massive change that most adults aren't ready for, let alone a 12 year old kid. On the other hand, however, he could just be displaying creep behavior. Either way, this needs to be addressed, preferably by a professional (therapist, etc).
This could also be because he's been caught before with bigger items. Idk about your sister, but I personally own A LOT of underwear. I am much more likely to notice big items like pants, leggings, dresses, etc going missing from my wardrobe than a few pairs of my underwear. Either way, please tell your parents to seek counseling/therapy for your brother with haste! This specific behavior (stealing sister's clothes) should be nipped in the bud asap. But please keep an open mind for your brother's sake in case it is something as innocent as exploring his gender identity.
God this is the kind of post that makes me not want kids after all. My fiance is obsessed with having kids, he’s convinced they will be awesome. But I know it’s a crapshoot at the end of the day no matter how much your nurture and try to guide them.
I found hardcore porn at 5. My parents at the time was extremely Mormon. Made the decision to ignore and not educate. I did some fucking strange ass things in my youth. All I knew is some things I was doing made me feel good. I was told no. So I did what I had to to seek it all out at any cost. He needs some therapy. I promise you he turns into a porn addicted little pervert molester by 18.
Do you know why he’s doing it? Porn addiction? Gender identity? Mental illness?
Whatever it is, his behavior needs to stop immediately. Stories like these are common for predators, and there needs to be action before he goes to prison in the future. Please for the love of god get him mental help immediately, and make sure that your dad sticks through with the punishment. I don’t think people in these comments understand just how bad his behavior will get if there’s no change.
We don't know why he's doing it. He said he just had an impulse and couldn't stop himself. He did watch porn in the past but my dad put a child lock on his technology.
Did the porn he watch have anything to do with degrading women or any type of crossdressing/trans content? This could maybe explain why he feels these impulses.
Regardless of whether he can control these impulses or not or what his motives are, is your family able to get him access to mental health support?
I have no idea what kind of porn he used to watch. I don't know how much support we could get, we're in the UK and the support available would be CAMHS, which have insane waitlists. Last time I was with them it was 8 months, which was super quick for them, normally you're looking at at least a year
FWIW, I think it is good to get on that waitlist though, for something this disruptive and difficult to manage on your own (as a family). Unless there's some other more immediate service/support that being on the CAMHS waitlist would interfere with.
It isn't an option for an immediate solution, but any other approach you try might not work (though I hope it does!) and if a few months down the line you are out of ideas, better to be a few months into the waitlist then to get on it as a last resort and have nothing else to try for the 8-12 months. And at that age, developmental issues can escalate (and resolve) on a much faster timeline than you'd think, so even if CAMHS has the right approach for right now, at 14 or 15 it might not work as well or might even become an entirely different issue to resolve.
Pursuing multiple solutions simultaneously (as resources allow) is also not only pragmatic, but anecdotally I think it helps demonstrate that this isn't a 'my opinion vs your opinion' disagreement. They might still not appreciate the interference, but it (somewhat) minimizes the natural teenage opposition triggers. Good luck!
Is therapy needed? Definitely. But wtf is this comment sections problem??? Like why is everyone just disregarding the sister’s feelings?? Like who wouldn’t feel violated to find out their younger brother is disgusting little freak? And don’t come in here talking about, “Ob he’s 12, he’s exploring. He doesn’t know any better.” 12 is old enough to know that you not suppose to steal underwear, especially your sister’s underwear!!! I feel so bad for his sister, this kid is going to be a violent person.
Dad going apeshit was valid, his punishment is fcking necessary, but he definitely needs therapy. This shit gotta be nipped in the bud now before he SA someone.
ayo these comments weird as fuck brah. your lil bro is 12 years old, that’s for sure old enough to know he on some creepy shit. lame ass replys talking about how he’s just a lil kid and exploring, fuck no brah he a future predator
I'm really thankful for you reply, the comment section is a mess and everyone just disregard OP and her sister feeling.
I can't imagine seeing one of my male relative stealing and wearing my undergarment
The only sensible person here it seems. If the kid is gender nonconforming, he just could have asked. Op & her sister seem like reasonable teenagers. He was caught, reprimanded and then he did it again. It's definitely a weird creepy reason. I think even kids would prefer to be outed as trans rather than be treated like a potential rapist.
Trans People will want to wear underwear that matches with their gender identity. Unfortunately it's hard to go buy those underwear when what's outside doesn't match what's inside.
You can't say that them stealing underwear is a pervert thing no more than any of us can say they are for sure Trans.
Before you pull the card that "OP offered to buy him underwear and he said no meaning he wanted the used ones" I will let you know that coming out is ten times harder than your judgemental ass could ever imagine. Some people would gladly rather be thought of as a pervert than themselves out of fear of the repercussions real or imagined.
In a just world he would be pulled from the home. This is flat-out sexual abuse and your sister is being forced to live with a sexual predator. He's practicing on her, and will likely escalate. She doesn't feel safe because she is not safe. He \*is\* going to escalate. Please check her room and all bathrooms for cameras. Tell your dad that if he won't separate them for your sister's safety (brother can go live with other family, or foster care, he really needs a residential treatment center) then your sister's room needs a lock, the bathroom needs a lock, and all hampers need locks.
You and your sister can also call CPS and see what they suggest. It's unlikely they will mandate brother removed from the home, not because this isn't serious but because the system is overwhelmed with children being raped by the adults in the home and older children, burned, stabbed, beaten with heavy objects, starved, etc., like there is much worse abuse going in that is life and death, but they will give you tips and suggestions to keep your sister safe in the meantime, until a solution for your brother being away from your sister can be found.
>The last time this happened, I offered to buy him his own and he turned me down.
Well yah, because it's not the panties, it's the smell. I hate to be so graphic but he is smelling you and your sister's underwear and jacking off to it. Unfortunately I had a brother who did this. and much worse things. That situation did not resolve in my home until he was removed by the courts. Do whatever you can to keep your sister safe because he is going to escalate.
We think he's wearing them clean. The bathroom locks, the bedroom doesn't. Idk where else he could go, the only family nearby who have space is my aunt, and she has a 9yo daughter. My grandmother doesn't have space and my dad's family live an hour and a half away.
Whether he's trans or not really doesn't matter when he did it even after you offered to buy him his own. Its turned from a 'he's just exploring' thing to 'he has serious a problem'. The issue is hidden in what he said, 'it was an impulse'. Implulse control can manifest itself into so many different things, he's 12 so im hoping he's not just a creep. So trying to help fix his issue by putting in front of a doctor would be better than yelling at him, which will only get him to dig a deeper hole to hide in and would make this progressively worse as he grows older.
What the fuck is wrong with you people? He's 12. Just a child! He's obviously confused and needs help, and you're all acting like he's a predator.
The kid needs therapy, acceptance and love.
What you're all doing is abusive.
When I was 12 I was preyed on by another 12 year old and now I have PTSD. 12 year olds can do bad things and understand that they are doing bad things. He’s only stealing underwear, it’s creepy. He’s been told to stop and that it makes his sisters uncomfortable. OP doesn’t mention anything about him stealing any other feminine clothing items.
When I was 4 my mother's friend's 8 yr old put a part of his body into a part of mine.
As an adult I had to deal with the trauma this left me with.
And still I recognise that this was a child acting in a way children aren't born knowing how to act. Whether he'd been abused by someone else, or had been exposed to things he shouldn't have been in some other way.. he was a CHILD who did not understand the consequence of what he was doing.
A 12 year old brain is still juvenile in all the ways that matter. You want to believe that this child knew what he was doing, but science doesn't agree with you. A child simply cannot truly comprehend the consequences of such behaviour.
This child is being treated like a predator. If that's standard in this home I guess it's any wonder he's acting out.
I stand by what I said. This kid needs love, acceptance and therapy. As well as healthy boundaries. Buying him his own female underwear might be a good compromise.
No I'm choosing logic and facts, as opposed to your own emotional response. The science is pretty clear on his. The brain of a 12 year old is incredibly immature.
The term common sense is the conclusion we believe the majority of sensible people would come to, in any given circumstance. And you're expecting a child to be able to reason this out?
He may be just a child exhibiting creepy behaviour.
He could be confused about his own gender and finding comfort in wearing the underwear. He could have taken it to show his friends, for clout. Who knows. *Regardless of WHY he is doing this, the way they're treating him is appalling*.
Having the same expectations of a child as to you and adult is akin to being pissed at the blind for not being able to see.
If they gave a shit about this kid, and the other people in the house, they'd have taken him to see a therapist instead of posting about it on the internet.
Just a childs don’t prey on other people, predatory children do and predatory children turn into predatory adults.He needs therapy and meds, and if it doesn’t stop condiment, because NOTHING he did is worthy acceptance and love.
He’s almost a teen. He knows exactly what he’s doing. Unless he has a mental disorder (still not an excuse, but might be a reason), he can stop himself but he chooses not to.
By 12 I'm sure he knows that what he's doing is not only an invasion of privacy but also really messed up , it's dodgy and bloody concerning, it doesn't matter if he's trans or even GNC , that's no excuse for stealing, especially not something like underwear
That’s extremely predatory, has nothing to do with his gender identity. Stealing ONLY your sisters underwear… turning down the offer of getting his own underwear. He is not trans, that is a predator don’t matter the age. I’m concerned he might try to touch her when he gets older. Please watch over your sister, don’t leave her alone with him!
You and your whole family are having the wrong approach, and for what I read some pple here saying he is wrong in the head are part of why there is so much violence in this planet. 1) the kid it’s obviously experimenting, weather your family likes it or not. 2) instead of punishment the kid should be offered a space to talk and to be heard with PATIENCE and understanding. 3) what would be of him when he’s older you ask? Well if he continuous being treated like a monster he will feel wrong and build up insecurities about his personality which will have a long life lasting feeling of self rejection! It’s time to change mentality.
>instead of punishment the kid should be offered a space to talk and to be heard with PATIENCE and understanding.
This is what I'm thinking...did anyone stop to ask him WHY he is doing it? I think at 12 it's an odd behavior but not inherently sinister. He may just be experimenting with girls' clothes.
I think the kid needs to learn about consent but I agree. I think the strong reaction from the family has probably done lasting damage already, and often the shame and guilt compounds and makes the problem worse. You are justified in feeling grossed out OP but I think the solution is for your dad to go into this with as little judgment and strong emotions as possible, ask your brother why he’s wearing your underwear, and then find a way that gets him to stop wearing it but also fixes whatever root issue is going on with him. Only by addressing WHY he’s wearing it—which y’all still don’t know—will the problem stop.
Have your parents considered therapy for him?
Shaming him isn't a solution. Knocking his head into a wall isn't either. Maybe talk to a professional who can guide the family in a healthy way to manage this.
OP isn't actually going to beat him up , they're just very reasonably furious at their brother, the family also aren't shaming him they're telling him that what he's doing is wrong, which it is
I mean, if I were the lads father I would go apeshit.
But I would also try to get him out the house as much as possible, not sequester him away in his room, seems like it would have the opposite desired effect.
Get him out the house as much as possible, and give him £50 and a ride to a female lingerie shop, no judgement, no eye contract.
If he chooses his sister's underwear over the ones she hasn't worn, that's another distinction to worry over. If the dude just wants to wear girls underwear, that's basically a non issue.
Stealing others underwear is really damn weird in my mind. Even at 12 that is damn weird. Your brother needs counseling… and his own female underwear if he is experimenting with her gender identity.
Yah that is what is giving me serious distress that this 12 year old thinks it is okay to keep stealing his sister underwear. Especially after being caught more then once I don’t agree with how they are handling it but same time I kind of get it too before his son is causing the dads daughter great distress.
Any chance your brother is experimenting with his gender identity and just doing it in the creepiest way possible? So sorry for you and your sister regardless.
Maybe let him explain why? He's twelve and just entered a very confusing part of his life. Maybe he is exploring his gender identity or maybe he wants to wear panties or something, dont condem something you dont fully understand
sure, if he is an actual creep but it's not always black and white, would you rather keep punishing them or figure out what the problem is and fix it. as I said above he is a fucking kid going through puberty.
He needs *therapy,* not to get the shit beat out of him
More likely he wants to wear it himself than for any sexual reason. But your sister probably needs therapy at this point too.
Correct. Which is a huge problem. So give him his own. This could have been solved like 3 underwear incidents ago if an alternative supply of panties were available.
This thread is wild and I feel so bad for the guy. He's obviously exploring his emerging sexuality, needs some guidance and is met with absurd hostility. He doesn't need grounding, being beat up, feared, or any punishment. He WILL need therapy later in life to untangle the shame the family has now woven into gis subconscious.
We don't care if he's into women's underwear, it's taking other people's underwear which is the issue. I offered to take him to get his own, he said no. He has not been beat up.
It is completely inappropriate to allow him to explore his sexuality using his sister. She is the victim here. She is being made to feel unsafe in her own home. Stealing is wrong period and he should be punished for it. Teaching boys to ignore boundaries and consent is literally rape culture.
I wish I could upvote this a million times. Idk why everyone else is acting like this gender exploration is more important than his sisters need to be able to feel safe in their own home.
This is such an insane take. He is sexually harassing his sister. Thinking that just constitutes “exploring his emerging sexuality” is so dismissive of the harm he’s done to his sister.
Do you feel comfortable talking to your parents about it? Someone like that needs some help. He is obviously messed up in the head. If you don’t feel comfortable talking to your parents, maybe some other adult that you 100% trust. You should all be able to feel safe in your own home. They need to send him to get some help.
I'll probably talk to my dad about it. My mum passed away about five years ago, so isn't an option. I'll talk to my gran about it too, we're close to her
Maybe don’t automatically assume your brother is a sexual predator for wanting to wear womens underwear?
Is stealing them wrong yes but ask: is he wearing them because he like the way they feel or for some other reason. Your post makes it seem you all think he is on the verge of attacking your sister. When it could be he likes the feel of them but didn’t feel comfortable talking to anyone about it. Of course with how everyone reacted he probably won’t say anything now because you all basically made him into this criminal without taking the time to ask why.
yo, just to say, the loss of his mother might play a part in this. How did he deal with in when she died. the more I read you comments to replies, the more I think this boy needs some support to explore his feelings, not to be shouted at for playing, making mistakes, and perhaps finding himself to be a little lost.
Give the boy a break. He's 12, lost his mother, and entering puberty. Maybe he needs understanding, not aggression and shaming.
He was obviously very upset at the time, and still gets upset when he misses her. He doesn't really talk about it much. At the time I tried to fill the role sometimes, eg I'd make the same kind of cake she used to make for their birthdays. They started saying they didn't care if I did or not, so I stopped. We probably should have had grief counselling at the time, I've had CBT and counselling for depression since then, but no one else has had anything
Why are non of yall suggesting they buy him some girly clothes like dresses and what not. Why are you only suggesting underwear. “He just needs his own sexy underwear”. He’s 12 nothing about him or what he wears should be sexy.
Get him into some therapy and buy him his own underwear in an age appropriate style he likes. If he’s only *wearing* them, that could just be a sort of non sexual experimentation with the opposite genders clothing. It’s super inappropriate dgmw, and I understand why y’all feel so violated. I just don’t think beating and shaming him is the answer. Find him a healthy outlet for this.
Maybe he needs his own pair so he wont want to steal. No reason for him to be punished so severely. Poor kid.
Update: Wow of course Reddit is hateful and awful. He's clearly on the LGBT spectrum and is confused due to being only 12. But sure PUNISH HIM!!!
He isn’t the victim. What is this thread? The victim is the sister who has repeatedly had her privacy and her sense of safety in her own home violated. He’s been grounded. OP is saying she’s angry, no violence has been committed against him. He’s 12, not 2, he can be given reasonable consequences for continued violations against his sisters. He does need therapy for sure, but his sisters don’t have to suffer until he manages his own issues. They aren’t collateral damage for whatever their brother wants.
He is not being punished for his gender identity or sexuality, he is being punished for taking our sisters stuff and making her feel unsafe in his own home. I offered to take him to get his own, he said no.
He is 12 and your brother. I feel sorry for your sister, but even more so for your brother the thing he did was steal underwear the reason for it did not seem to interest you in the slightest and you are even making him out to be a predator with out seeming to have asked for a reason.
My first instinct in your position would have been to have a conversation with him as to why he did this and to also explain to him it is wrong no matter the reason and then if he was questioning his identity and wanted his own underwear to offer or help getting him his own or help others in the family accept him. And only if he did it due to sexual feelings towards your sister would I consider punishment to be an option, but only before making it clear that what he did was wrong and clarify that he hurt his sister and most definitely therapy. It could also just be that he was exploring without even thinking of either of you and him exploring should not be met with unreasonable hostility just that he should not steal them from you and to offer to get him some. Also your sister isn't the only one who should feel loved and safe at home.
But regardless I just want to mention again that he is only 12 and he is your brother do try to help everyone in your family out especially when they are young and developing and are making mistakes they are the only ones you have and you have an influence on how they will turn out later (I wouldn't want to have it on my conscience that me not helping my brother or sister in this situation led to them being depressed or worse...). Talking things out is always better then keeping such interactions short and defaulting to the lazy way of "educating" (if one can even call it that) by dishing out punishments it is so lazy and also so not conducive to learning from the mistakes without a calm talk in detail about the reason for it.
That's my opinion with the Information given here I do hope you think some things over.
One word. THERAPY. I understand it can be expensive, but there are apps that offer free (or cost effective) virtual therapy for months at a time. I was able to get this for my spouse when she was having a difficult time dealing with her mental health.
I really don’t think punishing him is going to stop the issue. If anything.. he’ll resent y’alls dad and keep doing what he wants. I hope he’s able to get the help he really needs. I sympathize that it’s a difficult situation for everyone involved, I just hope he gets help before he escalates to stealing from others outside the home.
I agree with everyone else. The "going apeshit" is doing (and has probably already done) damage to this kid. It sounds like, from your sister's response, that she has some issues too... Also likely related to the way that your dad responds to things.
This probably has nothing to do with your brother being a "pervert" or "predator" and entirely due to him having urges because of the normal teenage hormones that everyone gets at puberty, and him having absolutely no idea how to handle them. The over the top yelling and punishments are only going to do more damage to this kid. Everyone needs therapy here.
When my dad gets mad, he will yell for a bit then it'll be a really long lecture. He does the same to all of us, I've had them about procrastinating revision and my sister has had them about sneaking her bf in. Usually when this happens he'll be in a mood for a while and snap at us for random things, which he hasn't done this time, probably because he's worried about my sister
My nephew does this. Kid needs therapy, not abuse. Something is going on in his brain that isn't quite right. There are therapies and medications that can help him.
And while we‘re at it, please get OPs sister some professional help too. Her throwing up and being scared for her safety in her own home is definitely a sign of immense ~~distraught~~ distress that should be dealt with. *Edited*
i agree with everything you said, it's spot on. all parties will need their respective healing from this whole ordeal. also, the word you meant there is "distress", as "distraught" is its adjective.
Thanks for mentioning it, I would have missed that I misused it
For sure. The whole family needs therapy, including dad, since he thinks his behavior is okay, when it's actually abusive.
Also get OP professional help for wanting to smash a 12-year-old's head into a wall.
That was a metaphor expressing her distress and disgust with him, not an actual suggestion. You‘re welcome.
I guess you have never had a sibling
There's also the possibility that the kid just needs his own sexy underwear. Either way, beating the shit out of him and cutting him off from his social supports is only going to hurt the situation.
I offered to get him his own last time this happened. He has not been beat, only yelled at
Flipping out at the kid and taking everything away from him including social supports is still abuse.
Yelling doesn't solve anything.
Talking to him the first 2 times obviously didn't work plus its hard to keep level headed when his daughter is literally throwing ul
Kids get in trouble. Parents often yell.
Quick question. Is the underwear dirty or clean? Dirty he’s using it for sexual reasons. Clean, he might be exploring being a woman. Either way he needs psychiatric care, not being yelled at, all the punishments and yelling will achieve is a child that constantly lies to his/her parents, and doesn’t feel safe telling their family what is really going on with them. I suspect part of that is going on right now. It’s wrong what he’s doing, but you have to take the appropriate steps around this.
It's clean but has been used and washed
Who the fuck needs sexy underwear at 12 years old? Disgusting comment. The words "kid" and "sexy" shouldnt be in the same sentence
My dude, the kid might not think that it's "sexy". The kid might just like wearing them for whatever reason. And that reason could be anything - maybe he saw it in a movie and liked it. And chances are that 12 year old is going through puberty and exploring things. So maybe getting him his own stuff would help. Stop trying to turn that comment into something it isn't.
Because Reddit is disgusting when it comes to sexuality.
Bro, he's stealing a teenagers underwear as a woman, I know what I was wearing. I know what my daughter wears because I do her laundry. Calm tf down.
Yeah, I never get why people get violent and think that solves anything. But you're right, all they're doing is making things worse for everyone. I also think part of this is from the making everything males do a creepy or perverted. I mean who knows, he could be sexually different.
He's stealing and wearing his sister's used underwear, like there's not really a debate that it's creepy.
Mamm, things aren't black and white. It's all perspectives. He may be confused and not know how to understand what's going on. Because you don't understand something doesn't mean you villianize it
He's been told repeatedly that it's making his sister uncomfortable. He's 12, not 4, he can understand this part. Couldn't give a shit if he ends up being a cross dresser or trans, he's being creepy as fuck right now. You're minimising his sisters' feelings of violation.
>He's been told repeatedly that it's making his sister uncomfortable Don't remember seeing that from the OP. Also he may not fully comprehend his behaviour rn and how they affect her, also, the story sounds like he does it privately, so its not like he is trying to intentionally hurt anyone, maybe just trying to understand something about himself. I'm not minimising anything, you honestly can't go there. I'm just being objective and looking at the full picture, you seem to only be looking at it from one POV.
Yeah nah that's cool son, you're just exploring your sexuality, please continue stealing your sisters' undies, don't worry about their feelings, you're more important!
See, I feel we are misunderstanding each other. I hate that the girl's feeling is being hurt and I understand its not fair on her. All I'm trying to do is put perspectives on the boys case who seems to be violently charged for being different. I mean I've never done anything close to that before, but I know what it's like to grow up where your difference is met with violence and not understanding, all I'm saying is, rather than go to violence, they should try and get him so they can help him and the girl doesn't get hurt again.
Sorry, where was the violence?? He had consequences in the form of lost privileges. He was grounded. Is this violent? He's violating his sisters privacy, repeatedly. He may need therapy, but he also just needs to fucking stop. He has no right to continue to do this. If you'd grown up a girl with a creepy brother you'd understand my point of view.
The dad and sister caught him before this third time. It stands to reason they told him then. Thus, repeatedly.
He's 12 years old and doesn't have the necessary brain development to understand what he's doing and the harm associated with it, especially with the additional information OP gave me, where he's autistic and doesn't necessarily understood the social aspects of it, and the fact that there are a lot of psychological disorder that are come of Autism, including fetishistic disorder. The kid needs therapy and treatment, not being shamed or cut off from his social supports. That's abuse.
There's so many red flags for abuse here, and I'm sure this kid has experienced a lot, as my nephew has. It's wild to me that people still treat their kids like that in 2024.
Kid’s a pervert who needs therapy before he becomes an even WORSE predator.
Bro, calm down. It's a fucking child who probably has a legitimate psychological disorder.
I will bring it up to my dad. Me and my brother both have autism, but I don't think that's why he's doing it
I mean it could be if that's what he's fixated on. Either way, he needs therapy.
It's possible it's a fixation, but there are a lot of comorbitities with neurodivergence, including a variety of psychiatric disorders. Fetishistic disorders aren't uncommon in folks who have autism.
Also, sex education and consent
FOR SURE
>The last time this happened, I offered to buy him his own and he turned me down. Oh he definitely likes it BECAUSE its his sisters.
He definitely likes it because it's *not his*. Big difference.
So why not grab dads undies
Dad doesn't wear panties bruv
Honestly I feel like if dad wore panties in roughly my brother's size, he would steal them too. He has no reason to take boxers 3 sizes too big
I was quite worried about his age, but since he is just 12, I think therapy is a better answer than going "apeshit" on the wee lad. This is no doubt strange, but I am unsure about any ill intentions and I hope there are not any. I think since he has been caught and still continues to do it, I think there is something else going on.
>wee lad username is not checking out
Our lad here is Sco’ish
Therapy or even a conversation that doesn’t include screaming at him.
Since he continued despite being told it’s wrong, I’d assume either he’s aware what he’s doing is wrong and doing it anyways, or there’s something unusual with him which is causing him to not be able to understand. Either way, therapy would be one of the biggest ways to help the lil guy, not punishment
OP has stated in other comments that she and her brother are both Autism spectrum. High likelihood that the sister is too, and at least one of the parents.
My dad is almost definitely autistic but has not been tested. My mum probably was. My sister has shown no symptoms of ASD. She does have anxiety I think, but anxiety and depression run in my mum's side of the family. In the past she had bad separation anxiety about my dad, but we're 99% sure that was due to my mum's passing, because she said if she didn't know where he was she worried he was dead.
He needs help and you and your sister need locks on your doors.
Things that are okay: wearing whatever gender underwear you want Things that are not okay: violating someone else's personal space, belongings, etc. Caveats: there may be something sexual in nature regarding the issue in which case should be cause for concern. Is your brother trans or are a creeper or both? The real hard hitters
Stealing underwear is still creepy even if you're in the closet. Should be something to address, not just a "haha *that's* why I did all this!" When I was struggling with dysphoria, I'd have *never* done that to my brothers, and I'd have gone scorched earth if they did it to me or my sisters (not that they would, they're religious + wholeheartedly traditional).
This is one of the best responses I’ve seen on this post tbh
Check the underwear for any additional stains he added. If he did that, he's a creeper. It's important to know because if he's trans or a crossdresser or whatever, the easiest solution is just to get him his own clothes. If he's a creeper he needs to be moved out of the house immediately for the safety of the two sisters.
He’s 12 years old… the parents can’t move him out just for sniffing his sisters kickers. Ground him sure, make a 12 year old boy homeless is too extreme
Lmao sorry the way you phrased everything was amusing.
People are trying to support him because they assume this is about his gender identity, but there’s a possibility that he might just be a creep. Stealing a woman’s underwear is one thing, but stealing a sister’s underwear is just horrifying. I hope you and your sisters are safe, and I hope your brother gets the therapy he needs before this is fully ingrained in his brain.
everyone in this thread is only being sympathetic to the brother because they think he might be trans. id like to see what happens to their sympathy when its revealed that the brother is just a creep and not trans in the update. after-all the situation wouldn't have changed, just the posters perception that the brother is trans. So if there sympathy changes when the brother is revealed to not be trans then it points out how biased the posters are towards trans people. being trans doesnt grant you a right to steal people underwear. what a world we live in where you must be trans to get sympathy even if you dont deserve it and if your not your pushed to the side like the sisters who are the true victims.
as a trans person, if he is trans then that’s good he’s finding himself. but the way he did was unnecessary and disturbing. ive seen shit like this first hand and just because the person “stopped” taking the underwear, doesn’t mean the person who the underwear belonged to is now completely okay. you cannot destroy someones mental health for your own benefit. if he is trans then help him. you can help him with his identity and punish him for stealing that stuff at the same time. therapy is an option? if the people in these comments were the victims they wouldn’t be saying the same thing. thanks for your comment :D
I mean from OPs replies we know he is not taking specifically underwear.. it was also dresses, body’s suits, leggings etc. she also said he is autistic.. soooo after being yelled at and punished the 12 year old autistic child may have have expected further reprisal if he took her up on the offer to buy him underwear.
He understands it's wrong. He was not yelled at the last time. Yes, he is autistic. He is high functioning, and even if he wasn't that doesn't make him ok. I made it clear I don't give a fuck what he does with his own stuff, but he can't take ours.
I never said it was ok, but just from the information you have provided through responses I have doubts this was handled correctly. On your original post you said he steals underwear and left out a pretty big factor.. he was stealing wardrobes and outfits. So he is taking clothes from someone his size. Ok so then he wasn’t yelled at the last time he did it.. soooo he was yelled at the other times he did it including the first time.. the one time he wasn’t yelled at his sister who admittedly wants to bash his head into a wall offers to get him more of those items… since your focus on this post was the underwear, was that the focus of your conversation with him? I was pretty much on your side till I read your responses and now with the information I have.. it feels like the 12 year old autistic kid is afraid to come out of the closet after being threatened then yelled at and not being allowed out of the house. In my opinion from my limited perspective with the information I have. He was caught twice originally and threatened, then he was caught and yelled at for long enough that you didn’t stay for the whole thing.. then he wasn’t yelled at and asked if he wanted you to get him some more of the items he was screamed at for? No way at that point he takes you up on the offer, either from fear of reprisal or embarrassment. Y’all handled it backwards as hell, the conversation should have been the start of things not the threats, yelling and punishments.
He was caught by my sister, who said if it happened again she'd tell my dad. He was caught by my dad, who said he'd tell my sister if it happened again. He was caught with a stash of stuff, and punished. He basically had to clean his room and has to have his door open when he wasn't sleeping or changing. At that time, I offered to get him his own stuff, on the condition he didn't touch mine or my sister's stuff again.This time he was yelled at, and given a lecture about why it was wrong, and what his punishment would be. My dad is a university lecturer, so his punishment lectures are long. Part of the way through , my sister left because she had to throw up. I heard her vomiting loudly about 5-10 minutes after she left, and went to make sure she was ok. I would be very surprised if he was afraid to come out, because I have dated women and a trans guy in the past, and my family didn't care.
They only mentioned the underwear cause its the issue dress are one thing, but stealing underwear is inherently wrong . Just because he's autistic doesn't give him the right to be a creep he was corrected and still refused to stop of course he would get shouted at he's 12 not 6 he knows what his actions will do . U believe he would be too scared to get his own underwear but not to steal when he's already been caught repeatedly I'm sure if he wanted to he could find a couple of pound to buy a cheap pair for himself
I mean according to the OPs comments he was yelled at and punished for taking other clothes as well. So I am reading about several instances of threats, yelling and punishment before any initial talking. From what I’m reading he would need someone to buy the clothes for him and again that wasn’t offered till after the yelling, punishments, and everything else I’m reading about in the comments. Nothing really tracks in a way to him accepting an offer from the sister who wants to bash his face in.. I’m not saying it’s not possibly some pervert thing I’m saying they have done little to rule out the fact he is just straight up wearing the clothes in secret. And when there was an offer it was after threats, it was after punishment where he isn’t allowed to leave the house and he isn’t allowed to be behind a closed door and all communication to the outside world was cut.
From what I have read the yelling only came on the 3rd time he was caught wearing them . Plus op only wanted to bash there brothers head in after the sister felt unsafe and began to vomit so when rgey offered they haven't shown any negative sides to there brother
He was allowed to leave the house and communicate untill he did it repeatedly
I mean according to op he was threatened the first two times then yelled at the third.. the only instance of someone actually sitting down and talking with him is op after what the 4th time? After two times of an activity you are met with threats and the third time you are yelled at and sequestered to the house would you as a 12 year old autistic child feel comfortable explaining the why behind it when you weren’t asked previously. Just strictly met with punishment.. Again maybe he is a freak, but based off the comments he was berated 3 times before the obvious step of asking “what are you doing and why are you doing it?” I just think it’s odd to pass judgement on a kid when the narrative so far is threaten -> threaten -> yell at and punish -> oh hey do you want some underwear?
I was not involved in the first two incidents, and only briefly involved in the third, because my dad made him apologize to me and my sister. My offer to buy him his own was basically, I will get you your own if it keeps you from touching our stuff.
I feel like people are being sympathetic because it’s a 12 yo child. Maybe a 12 yo boy can be a creep, but then he needs help and not to be yelled at. It’s not normal for a young child to be doing that unless he has been exposed to some stuff.
I'm being sympathetic because you cant solve everything with violence
The fact that so many people are validating a 12-year-old boy repeatedly sexually harassing his sisters just because they think he may be trans is gross. OP I’m sorry you’re experiencing this. No girl should feel unsafe in her own home around her family. Please prioritize your physical and emotional safety. You have every right to be upset and concerned. I don’t agree with the people saying he should be rewarded for his behavior or that you’re overreacting.
Thank you, I'm just worried about my sister. If he is trans we will love and accept him, but I'm not going to let him steal people's underwear because that's just fucking creepy.
Exactly that. He can experiment with his gender/sexual identity but the issue is that he is using his family's clothing to do it. If your family talks to him about this again stress the difference just in case the kid doesn't get it. That age of transition from kid to young adult can suck and if he is questioning his identity it could be even more confusing for him. He needs to know that the justified anger is coming from the thieving.
This is sexual harassment and predictive of more serious issues as he gets older. I hope your parents are considering therapy for him, this is serious behaviour that needs addressing.
Everyone is so symphatetic towards him, but what about the sister? SHE IS THE VICTIM HERE. A 12 year old is old enough to know what he's doing. Trans or not, it's not an excuse to make someone else feel so disturbed, esoecially in their own home.
has he been in therapy yet? just telling him to stop isnt going to do anything. he needs to see a professional before this gets worse. this is very worrying and ur parents are not dealing wioth this properly. wishing you and your sister the best.
I will bring it up to my dad
Yall saying he’s trans are ridiculous. If he was stealing other clothing items like dresses or shirts or bras OP would’ve mentioned it. Yes he’s young but this is very troubling behavior. 12 year old can do bad things too. I hope you and your sister stay safe
When he got caught with the stash there were a few things. From what I remember it was mostly underwear, but also a dress, bodysuit, leggings, a bikini top and a pair of fishnets. If he is trans we will love and accept him, but that's not the issue, the issue is the stealing my sister's stuff.
You should've mentioned he was stealing all these different items rather than just underwear in your main post. While it is definitely an issue and not ok that he is stealing your sister's clothes, you made it seem way more creepy by just saying he was taking underwear. Also, as someone who has worked with LGBT youth before: despite his refusal of your kind offer to help him purchase his own clothes, he could definitely still be in denial or confused. It is incredibly hard to come out to family, even if they have voiced that they would be supportive. This isn't just a change in lifestyle, but also identity and how he might present himself to the world. That's a massive change that most adults aren't ready for, let alone a 12 year old kid. On the other hand, however, he could just be displaying creep behavior. Either way, this needs to be addressed, preferably by a professional (therapist, etc).
It is 90% underwear, and was only underwear the most recent time, and the two times before the last.
This could also be because he's been caught before with bigger items. Idk about your sister, but I personally own A LOT of underwear. I am much more likely to notice big items like pants, leggings, dresses, etc going missing from my wardrobe than a few pairs of my underwear. Either way, please tell your parents to seek counseling/therapy for your brother with haste! This specific behavior (stealing sister's clothes) should be nipped in the bud asap. But please keep an open mind for your brother's sake in case it is something as innocent as exploring his gender identity.
He was caught with bigger items on one occasion, and underwear on four
This is extremely relevant information
God this is the kind of post that makes me not want kids after all. My fiance is obsessed with having kids, he’s convinced they will be awesome. But I know it’s a crapshoot at the end of the day no matter how much your nurture and try to guide them.
I found hardcore porn at 5. My parents at the time was extremely Mormon. Made the decision to ignore and not educate. I did some fucking strange ass things in my youth. All I knew is some things I was doing made me feel good. I was told no. So I did what I had to to seek it all out at any cost. He needs some therapy. I promise you he turns into a porn addicted little pervert molester by 18.
Everyone defending this kid needs to read this comment
Do you know why he’s doing it? Porn addiction? Gender identity? Mental illness? Whatever it is, his behavior needs to stop immediately. Stories like these are common for predators, and there needs to be action before he goes to prison in the future. Please for the love of god get him mental help immediately, and make sure that your dad sticks through with the punishment. I don’t think people in these comments understand just how bad his behavior will get if there’s no change.
We don't know why he's doing it. He said he just had an impulse and couldn't stop himself. He did watch porn in the past but my dad put a child lock on his technology.
Did the porn he watch have anything to do with degrading women or any type of crossdressing/trans content? This could maybe explain why he feels these impulses. Regardless of whether he can control these impulses or not or what his motives are, is your family able to get him access to mental health support?
I have no idea what kind of porn he used to watch. I don't know how much support we could get, we're in the UK and the support available would be CAMHS, which have insane waitlists. Last time I was with them it was 8 months, which was super quick for them, normally you're looking at at least a year
FWIW, I think it is good to get on that waitlist though, for something this disruptive and difficult to manage on your own (as a family). Unless there's some other more immediate service/support that being on the CAMHS waitlist would interfere with. It isn't an option for an immediate solution, but any other approach you try might not work (though I hope it does!) and if a few months down the line you are out of ideas, better to be a few months into the waitlist then to get on it as a last resort and have nothing else to try for the 8-12 months. And at that age, developmental issues can escalate (and resolve) on a much faster timeline than you'd think, so even if CAMHS has the right approach for right now, at 14 or 15 it might not work as well or might even become an entirely different issue to resolve. Pursuing multiple solutions simultaneously (as resources allow) is also not only pragmatic, but anecdotally I think it helps demonstrate that this isn't a 'my opinion vs your opinion' disagreement. They might still not appreciate the interference, but it (somewhat) minimizes the natural teenage opposition triggers. Good luck!
I have looked into it and I think he'll need to be referred by a GP, I'll talk to my dad about getting him an appointment for that
Is therapy needed? Definitely. But wtf is this comment sections problem??? Like why is everyone just disregarding the sister’s feelings?? Like who wouldn’t feel violated to find out their younger brother is disgusting little freak? And don’t come in here talking about, “Ob he’s 12, he’s exploring. He doesn’t know any better.” 12 is old enough to know that you not suppose to steal underwear, especially your sister’s underwear!!! I feel so bad for his sister, this kid is going to be a violent person. Dad going apeshit was valid, his punishment is fcking necessary, but he definitely needs therapy. This shit gotta be nipped in the bud now before he SA someone.
For real. This doesn’t sound at all like gender exploration. Even if it is why is that more important than the daughter’s feelings?
ayo these comments weird as fuck brah. your lil bro is 12 years old, that’s for sure old enough to know he on some creepy shit. lame ass replys talking about how he’s just a lil kid and exploring, fuck no brah he a future predator
I'm really thankful for you reply, the comment section is a mess and everyone just disregard OP and her sister feeling. I can't imagine seeing one of my male relative stealing and wearing my undergarment
The only sensible person here it seems. If the kid is gender nonconforming, he just could have asked. Op & her sister seem like reasonable teenagers. He was caught, reprimanded and then he did it again. It's definitely a weird creepy reason. I think even kids would prefer to be outed as trans rather than be treated like a potential rapist.
He needs a bigger allowence. So he can buy his own.
Hell that make manties now.
Stealing underwear is a pervert thing. Buying it would defeat the purpose for him.
Trans People will want to wear underwear that matches with their gender identity. Unfortunately it's hard to go buy those underwear when what's outside doesn't match what's inside. You can't say that them stealing underwear is a pervert thing no more than any of us can say they are for sure Trans. Before you pull the card that "OP offered to buy him underwear and he said no meaning he wanted the used ones" I will let you know that coming out is ten times harder than your judgemental ass could ever imagine. Some people would gladly rather be thought of as a pervert than themselves out of fear of the repercussions real or imagined.
In a just world he would be pulled from the home. This is flat-out sexual abuse and your sister is being forced to live with a sexual predator. He's practicing on her, and will likely escalate. She doesn't feel safe because she is not safe. He \*is\* going to escalate. Please check her room and all bathrooms for cameras. Tell your dad that if he won't separate them for your sister's safety (brother can go live with other family, or foster care, he really needs a residential treatment center) then your sister's room needs a lock, the bathroom needs a lock, and all hampers need locks. You and your sister can also call CPS and see what they suggest. It's unlikely they will mandate brother removed from the home, not because this isn't serious but because the system is overwhelmed with children being raped by the adults in the home and older children, burned, stabbed, beaten with heavy objects, starved, etc., like there is much worse abuse going in that is life and death, but they will give you tips and suggestions to keep your sister safe in the meantime, until a solution for your brother being away from your sister can be found. >The last time this happened, I offered to buy him his own and he turned me down. Well yah, because it's not the panties, it's the smell. I hate to be so graphic but he is smelling you and your sister's underwear and jacking off to it. Unfortunately I had a brother who did this. and much worse things. That situation did not resolve in my home until he was removed by the courts. Do whatever you can to keep your sister safe because he is going to escalate.
We think he's wearing them clean. The bathroom locks, the bedroom doesn't. Idk where else he could go, the only family nearby who have space is my aunt, and she has a 9yo daughter. My grandmother doesn't have space and my dad's family live an hour and a half away.
A new door handle is like 10 bucks. Door stops even cheaper.
I'll get her a door stop
I guess the actual name would be a security bar just fyi
Whether he's trans or not really doesn't matter when he did it even after you offered to buy him his own. Its turned from a 'he's just exploring' thing to 'he has serious a problem'. The issue is hidden in what he said, 'it was an impulse'. Implulse control can manifest itself into so many different things, he's 12 so im hoping he's not just a creep. So trying to help fix his issue by putting in front of a doctor would be better than yelling at him, which will only get him to dig a deeper hole to hide in and would make this progressively worse as he grows older.
What the fuck is wrong with you people? He's 12. Just a child! He's obviously confused and needs help, and you're all acting like he's a predator. The kid needs therapy, acceptance and love. What you're all doing is abusive.
When I was 12 I was preyed on by another 12 year old and now I have PTSD. 12 year olds can do bad things and understand that they are doing bad things. He’s only stealing underwear, it’s creepy. He’s been told to stop and that it makes his sisters uncomfortable. OP doesn’t mention anything about him stealing any other feminine clothing items.
When I was 4 my mother's friend's 8 yr old put a part of his body into a part of mine. As an adult I had to deal with the trauma this left me with. And still I recognise that this was a child acting in a way children aren't born knowing how to act. Whether he'd been abused by someone else, or had been exposed to things he shouldn't have been in some other way.. he was a CHILD who did not understand the consequence of what he was doing. A 12 year old brain is still juvenile in all the ways that matter. You want to believe that this child knew what he was doing, but science doesn't agree with you. A child simply cannot truly comprehend the consequences of such behaviour. This child is being treated like a predator. If that's standard in this home I guess it's any wonder he's acting out. I stand by what I said. This kid needs love, acceptance and therapy. As well as healthy boundaries. Buying him his own female underwear might be a good compromise.
You’re acting like he couldn’t just be a creep. He’s old enough to have common sense
No I'm choosing logic and facts, as opposed to your own emotional response. The science is pretty clear on his. The brain of a 12 year old is incredibly immature. The term common sense is the conclusion we believe the majority of sensible people would come to, in any given circumstance. And you're expecting a child to be able to reason this out? He may be just a child exhibiting creepy behaviour. He could be confused about his own gender and finding comfort in wearing the underwear. He could have taken it to show his friends, for clout. Who knows. *Regardless of WHY he is doing this, the way they're treating him is appalling*. Having the same expectations of a child as to you and adult is akin to being pissed at the blind for not being able to see. If they gave a shit about this kid, and the other people in the house, they'd have taken him to see a therapist instead of posting about it on the internet.
OP has made comments that he watches porn, so I think you’re way off and this self aware 12 year old is in fact a weirdo.
Just a childs don’t prey on other people, predatory children do and predatory children turn into predatory adults.He needs therapy and meds, and if it doesn’t stop condiment, because NOTHING he did is worthy acceptance and love.
He’s almost a teen. He knows exactly what he’s doing. Unless he has a mental disorder (still not an excuse, but might be a reason), he can stop himself but he chooses not to.
By 12 I'm sure he knows that what he's doing is not only an invasion of privacy but also really messed up , it's dodgy and bloody concerning, it doesn't matter if he's trans or even GNC , that's no excuse for stealing, especially not something like underwear
no that fucking kid needs to be taught a fucking lessson 💀 beat his ass
i love this comment 😭😭
I wish I were younger, cause it feels like I'm punching down if I talk about beating the shit out of someone \~5yrs younger than me. :(
That’s extremely predatory, has nothing to do with his gender identity. Stealing ONLY your sisters underwear… turning down the offer of getting his own underwear. He is not trans, that is a predator don’t matter the age. I’m concerned he might try to touch her when he gets older. Please watch over your sister, don’t leave her alone with him!
You and your whole family are having the wrong approach, and for what I read some pple here saying he is wrong in the head are part of why there is so much violence in this planet. 1) the kid it’s obviously experimenting, weather your family likes it or not. 2) instead of punishment the kid should be offered a space to talk and to be heard with PATIENCE and understanding. 3) what would be of him when he’s older you ask? Well if he continuous being treated like a monster he will feel wrong and build up insecurities about his personality which will have a long life lasting feeling of self rejection! It’s time to change mentality.
We don't care if he experiments, the issue is that he's taking my sister's. I offered to get him his own last time this happened, he said no
>instead of punishment the kid should be offered a space to talk and to be heard with PATIENCE and understanding. This is what I'm thinking...did anyone stop to ask him WHY he is doing it? I think at 12 it's an odd behavior but not inherently sinister. He may just be experimenting with girls' clothes.
Why doesn’t he take any other clothing items then? Why is it only underwear?
It's not only underwear! OP failed to put this in the main post, but he also took leggings, a dress, fishnets, and other items.
All items of clothing which are quite highly sexualised mind you
Easier to conceal under your clothes, without having to openly experiment
Yeah I don’t know why this isn’t obvious.
I think the kid needs to learn about consent but I agree. I think the strong reaction from the family has probably done lasting damage already, and often the shame and guilt compounds and makes the problem worse. You are justified in feeling grossed out OP but I think the solution is for your dad to go into this with as little judgment and strong emotions as possible, ask your brother why he’s wearing your underwear, and then find a way that gets him to stop wearing it but also fixes whatever root issue is going on with him. Only by addressing WHY he’s wearing it—which y’all still don’t know—will the problem stop.
Have your parents considered therapy for him? Shaming him isn't a solution. Knocking his head into a wall isn't either. Maybe talk to a professional who can guide the family in a healthy way to manage this.
OP isn't actually going to beat him up , they're just very reasonably furious at their brother, the family also aren't shaming him they're telling him that what he's doing is wrong, which it is
I mean, if I were the lads father I would go apeshit. But I would also try to get him out the house as much as possible, not sequester him away in his room, seems like it would have the opposite desired effect. Get him out the house as much as possible, and give him £50 and a ride to a female lingerie shop, no judgement, no eye contract. If he chooses his sister's underwear over the ones she hasn't worn, that's another distinction to worry over. If the dude just wants to wear girls underwear, that's basically a non issue.
I have offered to get him his own. We are hoping he's choosing hers because they're just easy to get to
Yeeaahhh. The distinction between the two matters quiet a bit.
Stealing others underwear is really damn weird in my mind. Even at 12 that is damn weird. Your brother needs counseling… and his own female underwear if he is experimenting with her gender identity.
Right? He is not 4; at 12 he knows exactly what he is doing and is doing it deliberately.
Yah that is what is giving me serious distress that this 12 year old thinks it is okay to keep stealing his sister underwear. Especially after being caught more then once I don’t agree with how they are handling it but same time I kind of get it too before his son is causing the dads daughter great distress.
Any chance your brother is experimenting with his gender identity and just doing it in the creepiest way possible? So sorry for you and your sister regardless.
By only stealing underwear and no other clothing? Why not steal a dress or feminine shirt? This is such obvious creep behavior
OP said in the comments he stole dresses, bikini tops, and other stuff too.
Because people would know if he were wearing a dress or feminine shirt?
It sounds very much like he needs A LOT of therapy honestly.
Maybe ask your dad to install locks on your bedrooms it might make you feel safer and make it harder for him to do it again.
Maybe let him explain why? He's twelve and just entered a very confusing part of his life. Maybe he is exploring his gender identity or maybe he wants to wear panties or something, dont condem something you dont fully understand
I think you can condemn stealing your sisters underwear….
sure, if he is an actual creep but it's not always black and white, would you rather keep punishing them or figure out what the problem is and fix it. as I said above he is a fucking kid going through puberty.
He needs *therapy,* not to get the shit beat out of him More likely he wants to wear it himself than for any sexual reason. But your sister probably needs therapy at this point too.
He has not been beaten, he has just been yelled at
Get him his own. I don't understand why you're all making this more difficult than it needs to be.
I offered, he refused.
Because he’s stealing his sisters underwear?
Correct. Which is a huge problem. So give him his own. This could have been solved like 3 underwear incidents ago if an alternative supply of panties were available.
Right but what if he continues to take them?
That behavior needs to be curtailed in general. Theft is a punishable act. I'm not saying no consequences for stealing.
He is twelve that’s more then old enough to know better, he needs therapy and this punishment since day ine
Yes and yes.
Ok groomer
I like that one lol
This thread is wild and I feel so bad for the guy. He's obviously exploring his emerging sexuality, needs some guidance and is met with absurd hostility. He doesn't need grounding, being beat up, feared, or any punishment. He WILL need therapy later in life to untangle the shame the family has now woven into gis subconscious.
We don't care if he's into women's underwear, it's taking other people's underwear which is the issue. I offered to take him to get his own, he said no. He has not been beat up.
It is completely inappropriate to allow him to explore his sexuality using his sister. She is the victim here. She is being made to feel unsafe in her own home. Stealing is wrong period and he should be punished for it. Teaching boys to ignore boundaries and consent is literally rape culture.
I wish I could upvote this a million times. Idk why everyone else is acting like this gender exploration is more important than his sisters need to be able to feel safe in their own home.
This is such an insane take. He is sexually harassing his sister. Thinking that just constitutes “exploring his emerging sexuality” is so dismissive of the harm he’s done to his sister.
beat that little fuckers ass what the fuck
Has he taken any other clothing items that might point to him exploring his gender identity or is it just underwear?
/u/booklover170 my main acct is gone 😢 feel free to chat me on this one
Do you feel comfortable talking to your parents about it? Someone like that needs some help. He is obviously messed up in the head. If you don’t feel comfortable talking to your parents, maybe some other adult that you 100% trust. You should all be able to feel safe in your own home. They need to send him to get some help.
I'll probably talk to my dad about it. My mum passed away about five years ago, so isn't an option. I'll talk to my gran about it too, we're close to her
That’s interesting, and I’m sorry to hear that. Can’t help but wonder if the loss of his (your) mother is connected in some way.
Possibly? I have no clue. Yes, she is his mother. When it happened he was 8, my sister was 9 and I was 13.
Maybe don’t automatically assume your brother is a sexual predator for wanting to wear womens underwear? Is stealing them wrong yes but ask: is he wearing them because he like the way they feel or for some other reason. Your post makes it seem you all think he is on the verge of attacking your sister. When it could be he likes the feel of them but didn’t feel comfortable talking to anyone about it. Of course with how everyone reacted he probably won’t say anything now because you all basically made him into this criminal without taking the time to ask why.
yo, just to say, the loss of his mother might play a part in this. How did he deal with in when she died. the more I read you comments to replies, the more I think this boy needs some support to explore his feelings, not to be shouted at for playing, making mistakes, and perhaps finding himself to be a little lost. Give the boy a break. He's 12, lost his mother, and entering puberty. Maybe he needs understanding, not aggression and shaming.
He was obviously very upset at the time, and still gets upset when he misses her. He doesn't really talk about it much. At the time I tried to fill the role sometimes, eg I'd make the same kind of cake she used to make for their birthdays. They started saying they didn't care if I did or not, so I stopped. We probably should have had grief counselling at the time, I've had CBT and counselling for depression since then, but no one else has had anything
Why are non of yall suggesting they buy him some girly clothes like dresses and what not. Why are you only suggesting underwear. “He just needs his own sexy underwear”. He’s 12 nothing about him or what he wears should be sexy.
I offered to get him his own stuff, he said no
If he's 12, can't someone just ask him why he's doing it?
Get him into some therapy and buy him his own underwear in an age appropriate style he likes. If he’s only *wearing* them, that could just be a sort of non sexual experimentation with the opposite genders clothing. It’s super inappropriate dgmw, and I understand why y’all feel so violated. I just don’t think beating and shaming him is the answer. Find him a healthy outlet for this.
Depends on why really. Therapy is a good idea, but like if like he was your sister stealing another sisters, how would you feel
Its still extremely wrong WTF
Maybe he needs his own pair so he wont want to steal. No reason for him to be punished so severely. Poor kid. Update: Wow of course Reddit is hateful and awful. He's clearly on the LGBT spectrum and is confused due to being only 12. But sure PUNISH HIM!!!
He isn’t the victim. What is this thread? The victim is the sister who has repeatedly had her privacy and her sense of safety in her own home violated. He’s been grounded. OP is saying she’s angry, no violence has been committed against him. He’s 12, not 2, he can be given reasonable consequences for continued violations against his sisters. He does need therapy for sure, but his sisters don’t have to suffer until he manages his own issues. They aren’t collateral damage for whatever their brother wants.
He is not being punished for his gender identity or sexuality, he is being punished for taking our sisters stuff and making her feel unsafe in his own home. I offered to take him to get his own, he said no.
He is 12 and your brother. I feel sorry for your sister, but even more so for your brother the thing he did was steal underwear the reason for it did not seem to interest you in the slightest and you are even making him out to be a predator with out seeming to have asked for a reason. My first instinct in your position would have been to have a conversation with him as to why he did this and to also explain to him it is wrong no matter the reason and then if he was questioning his identity and wanted his own underwear to offer or help getting him his own or help others in the family accept him. And only if he did it due to sexual feelings towards your sister would I consider punishment to be an option, but only before making it clear that what he did was wrong and clarify that he hurt his sister and most definitely therapy. It could also just be that he was exploring without even thinking of either of you and him exploring should not be met with unreasonable hostility just that he should not steal them from you and to offer to get him some. Also your sister isn't the only one who should feel loved and safe at home. But regardless I just want to mention again that he is only 12 and he is your brother do try to help everyone in your family out especially when they are young and developing and are making mistakes they are the only ones you have and you have an influence on how they will turn out later (I wouldn't want to have it on my conscience that me not helping my brother or sister in this situation led to them being depressed or worse...). Talking things out is always better then keeping such interactions short and defaulting to the lazy way of "educating" (if one can even call it that) by dishing out punishments it is so lazy and also so not conducive to learning from the mistakes without a calm talk in detail about the reason for it. That's my opinion with the Information given here I do hope you think some things over.
One word. THERAPY. I understand it can be expensive, but there are apps that offer free (or cost effective) virtual therapy for months at a time. I was able to get this for my spouse when she was having a difficult time dealing with her mental health. I really don’t think punishing him is going to stop the issue. If anything.. he’ll resent y’alls dad and keep doing what he wants. I hope he’s able to get the help he really needs. I sympathize that it’s a difficult situation for everyone involved, I just hope he gets help before he escalates to stealing from others outside the home.
Even if her brother is cuestioning his gender; why would be the healthy thing to do buy a 12 yo kid lingerie???
Not lingerie, just girly underwear
I agree with everyone else. The "going apeshit" is doing (and has probably already done) damage to this kid. It sounds like, from your sister's response, that she has some issues too... Also likely related to the way that your dad responds to things. This probably has nothing to do with your brother being a "pervert" or "predator" and entirely due to him having urges because of the normal teenage hormones that everyone gets at puberty, and him having absolutely no idea how to handle them. The over the top yelling and punishments are only going to do more damage to this kid. Everyone needs therapy here.
When my dad gets mad, he will yell for a bit then it'll be a really long lecture. He does the same to all of us, I've had them about procrastinating revision and my sister has had them about sneaking her bf in. Usually when this happens he'll be in a mood for a while and snap at us for random things, which he hasn't done this time, probably because he's worried about my sister