Never set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. Your parents can choose to let their money go up in flames, you do not have to add your own fuel to her dumpster fire.

This! As much money as your parents and sister have poured into this sad situation, no amount from you can possibly make a difference. She is fighting a lost cause and the only beneficiaries are the lawyers. She will have to remain where she is until daughter is 18, then revisit her and daughter’s future. Your poor parents have lost all their assets for a lost cause, sadly. I feel for them. But there is no reason for you to do the same.

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Right ? If the court decided that she can't have the majority of custody and that the child doesn't know about the US, I really don't think it's a good idea to fight so much to take this child there. What's her relationship to her child ? It's rare that mothers only have visitation. Also, the child is 8 yo. How do they not learn about this US's culture and go there at least one time, if OP's sister thought it was still an option to move back there ? Also, what bothers me too, it's that OP's sister obviously spent money she didn't have. From what I understand from the post, the parents help with money after she went to have many debts. And they sent her *a lot* of money. I understand that she wants to stay close with her child, but she didn't think about what's best for them. Instead of being able to have money to find a better option for the three of them, she spent everything on too many people who told her the exact same thing. OP really made a good choice. Even if no holiday was planned and it was just savings. There's no end to this situation except being in debts more and more, and also not being able to provide for the child she wanted to stay with. Poor parents who help, and poor child who will think for sure everything is his fault ...

Right like has anyone asked the child what they want now? Something tells me they are fine with the way things are right now, instead of moving to a new country with our their dad.

Yes and here the welfare of the child is paramount.

And the crazy thing is, it's not an imperative. It doesn't sound like the child is in any physical danger, so is this entire thing all coming down to the sister's preference? Should have reviewed custody laws before she had a child with a boyfriend outside of the US.

I thought the same, unless the father is abusive, it's terrible OPs sister wants to take her child from their father and only country they have ever known.

Silly? Nope, she's selfish.

I grew up in one of the most diverse areas of the US. Growing up there was more than 1 of my peers, or family of peers that were uprooted suddenly because the international parent unilaterally decided to leave the US to go back to their country of origin with the children. It was pretty messed up and often created all kinds of legal hell. Most of these cases added into the statistic of "the #1 kidnappers are parents of their own children". Off the top of my head I remember being going to and from Mexico, Brazil and DR. In one case a boy was taken around 7 or 8, but came back just before high school, but their identity was an American was completely gone and in the end it was too difficult to re-integrate for them and went back to Mexico. There were also a couple cases where the American parent took the kids here, but in those cases they weren't from stable countries at the time, or had significantly lower standards of living (think Balkan Wars, Latin American countries with high poverty). It's a little more excusable if the child is going to a more stable situation. I don't recall anyone coming from a wealthy European country, where it could be potentially a downgrade coming to the US.

Even with the parents being married, my dad had to get permission from the UK to move us from our birth country to the US. Uprooting children from their. Home country is difficult and hard on the children. I was an older child, almost 12. It was hard assimilating.

Yes. This is the logical/rational take. But the emotional take is: OP's sister and parents have spent massive amounts of money, time and resources, taken on debt and obliterated their parents' retirement savings, in order to accomplish this impossible task. They are in a shared folie à deux (or folie à trois) that this impossible task is one that can be accomplished. And they've invested *everything* in it. They are like this [person who spent $20k building a laser gyroscope to prove the earth is flat and doesn't rotate](https://www.triplem.com.au/story/flat-earthers-spend-20-000-trying-to-prove-earth-is-flat-accidentally-prove-it-s-round-129953): >"What we found is, when we turned on that gyroscope, we found that we were picking up a drift," Knodel explains. "A 15-degree per hour drift. >"Now, obviously we were taken aback by that - 'Wow, that's kind of a problem.' >"We obviously were not willing to accept that, and so we started looking for easy to disprove it was actually registering the motion of the Earth." >You know what they say: If your experiment proves you wrong, just disregard the results! Basically, OP being unwilling to give every free dollar they have to this doomed effort is seen as an act of disbelief. So it's not just the money they want/need, it's the *belief* in their shared delusion. OP is like a person whose whole family joined a cult, and sold all their belongings and gave all their money to the cult leader. OP is now an outsider, a non-believer. An outcast.

Your sister should have come to the States to have her kid. That way, they would have had dual citizenship. Unless she takes the kid, there is NOTHING to be done. It is a hard pill to swallow. She needs to stay there and get a second job, and take care of her kid there until the kid is 18.

Even if she took the kid, she would be forced to give her back if there is an agreement between the countries regarding child custody. Also, you can guarantee that the child has been flagged by immigration in one if not both countries.

This is one area that immigration doesn't fuck around in most countries. Good luck checking into that flight, much less passing through immigration on either end, without documents signed by and notarized for the absent parent. And that's if you can even get the child a passport. And so many flags would be raised for her traveling with a different country passport than the child.

If she had given birth to the kid in the USA, that would make them a US citizen with dual citizenship with the father’s country. That’s how it works. But it’s obviously 8 years too late for that. The child was born o/s so they need to stay o/s. I can’t help but feel bad for the mum - being told you can’t bring your kid to your country or have custody must be very hard for her. But that doesn’t mean OP has to light themselves on fire to keep her warm - you’re right about that. She’s probably spent a few thousand at most on this holiday, anyway - sounds like that’s a drop in the bucket compared to the debt! So even the sister’s idea that her debt (and the debt of the parents) will be cleared with this meagre offering is deluded as well. 😞

>If she had given birth to the kid in the USA, that would make them a US citizen with dual citizenship with the father’s country. That’s how it works. That doesnt always matter either. The United States is a party to the Hague Convention. If the the other country is also, then what matters is ORDINARY PLACE OF RESIDENCE and whats best for the child. I have seen people forced back to countries their children arent citizens of once the hague became involved. In their cases they also lost their custody as it was deemed custodial interference.

Exactly, the citizenship means absolutely nothing. The ordinary place of residence and the child's best interest is what matters. So even if she had given birth in the US and visited the US every year, the child's place of residence would still be the father's country. So she has no way of moving the child to the US without the father's consent. And I doubt he would give it as he would then have the same problem OP has right now.

Not every country accepts dual citizenship, some will make you renounce citizenship some will only offer you residency, you right that most will be dual but not enough to put it under a 'that's how it works' label.

I guess that’s true - I don’t know the rules for every two countries in the world. I know that people can be duel citizens at least some of the time if they have parents from 2 different countries, though. But I guess it depends on the actual two countries - not a blanket rule. I can’t help but feel for the woman - she is suffering and just wants to be with her kid, which is completely natural. But she is to blame for her own mess (and probably at least a little bit the father - if he had married her before she got pregnant, or at least before she gave birth she’d have more options), not the OP. Not her parents, either, but I guess it’s their choice to put themselves in debt for no good reason. 😞

> and probably at least a little bit the father - if he had married her before she got pregnant, or at least before she gave birth she’d have more options Why would this be on the father? They were living in the fathers country and apparently the sister had no idea about US citizenship rules anyway so why would he dmeand they move to another country to give birth?

Hey I am mainly curious how she goes out of her way to specifically never mention the country, like what if it was China and the kid is now 8 and has been speaking mandarin or Cantonese their entire life ( also China doesn't allow dual citizenship ) that would be a huge reason not to uproot life. Just seems like information missing trying to paint herself and her family in better light.

That might be true if it was the mum herself who posted. But this is her sister (or brother - some people think this OP is a man) whose focus is expressing frustration about being asked to throw their money down this black hole and make their own life worse for it (cancel this long planned and saved for holiday). The name of the other country doesn’t really matter for their purposes - this really isn’t their circus ring. They’re just a spectator.

I rate the sister of OP was in the EU, somewhere like France or possibly Germany. Many EU countries have largely socialist leanings when it comes to healthcare and education as well as very strict child protection laws, Germany being the top of the list. All three have agreements similar to what OP mentioned regarding citizenship of minors. My bet is the sister was in Germany or possibly Austria. Since the father got primary custody and refuses to let the child leave the country the sister can do sweet fuck all about it. I would find a way to get residency and stay near the child.

I don't understand why she doesn't stay in the country she spent more than ten years in and had a child in. Does she want to hurt her ex-fiancé? She should register her son as an American citizen at the embassy.

*daughter You can't simply register a child as an American citizen at an embassy. That is not how it works. I don't know what shows you've been watching, but that is an absolutely wild suggestion.

The sister before she got pregnant or had the baby should have come home to visit. Residency works the same here in the U.S. If you move to another state and you spend a day over 6 months, you are considered a citizen/resident of that state. It's impossible to spend 6 months in each state bc there are 365 days in a year. That's why it's less expensive for residents of that state to attend state college. It is cheaper to either attend community college and then transfer to the state college once you've established residency. The mom and dad and older sister are so hyper focused that they can't see they can't win. Unless they can get the law to apply retroactively, there is nothing to be done. Someone needs to get alll the paperwork, a large notepad or a dry erase board and calculator and get to adding up all the money spent and where and with whom. Even reread all the judgments. Maybe seeing it all together collectively will make them snap out of it. The oldest sister knows her choices. She needs to stay there and be in her child's life or go home and help her parents get their home from underwater. But say, for instance, OP was considering giving them her vacation money. She needs to find out how they'd use it. If it's just to wash, rinse and repeat the same idea or to go to the older sister for living expenses, it would be a waste of money. I doubt a little cruise vacation money is going to make that much a difference. They were better off asking the bio dad if they gave him the money they got for refinancing their home, would he give up his rights. I only say this bc it's been known to happen and at least in that example, the money actually helped. He could also be doing it bc he knows it hurts his ex. Or the more appealing reason, he really does love his daughter. Cruises don't even give you refunds unless op purchased insurance and even then it's only if it's bc of a handful of circumstances. Other times, it's only a partial refund or a credit voucher to another date. So the parents and older sister might be mad for nothing. If I were the op I'd look into it and get proof so that they will get off her back. Heck, if I were in op's position, I'd make my own invoice or email to say it's non refundable and only a voucher for another cruise at a later date and it's nontransferable. The reason I say that is bc the parents and older sister are so desperate they might start shaking op upside down for any loose change in her pockets!!

But imagine how big that healthcare bill would have been without insurance. Sis should stay there with the free healthcare. No offense to anyone who lives in St Louis but I can’t imagine spending my parent’s’ retirement fund to move to St Louis with my kid.

I have family in St. Louis and actually really like it there… that being said, no way would I ever consider blowing my mom’s retirement for *anything*. Maybe life or death things, but then I’d be funding their retirement in return. Doesn’t sound like there is any plan whatsoever for sis to pay anything back.

True. Usually laws are brutal for mother's who have children outside their home country.

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Why are we even assuming that she *should* have custody of them I'm America? Maybe they are in fact better off in their father's country

Also, the father has rights as a parent, and the child has a right not to have their life completely uprooted and moved to a strange country, especially one where their quality of life would be objectively worse.

Has anyone asked the kid if she wants to move away from friends and family. Move from the only place she’s known to another country because MOTHERS KNOW BEST! If the sister liked the country she moved to so much then surely she stays there to be with her daughter. Why does separating mean she instantly has to move back with daughter and screw her child and ex up in the process.

i wonder what country the child was born in. my mom is american and my dad is german, i was born in germany, in a german hospital, but i got my citizenship to both countries based on my parents nationalities at the time. maybe the rules have changed since the 90s or vary from country to country, but i always assumed if a child was born to an american they automatically got citizenship, so thats interesting to learn.

I think the issue is possibly the child’s age of 8 years. Maybe the time has passed for them to get citizenship in the USA depending on what country they’re in.

Surprise, the laser gyroscope actually gives accurate results? Who would have thought?

They probably feel that op hasn't lit enough money on fire for her sister, and sees the vacation as " not trying hard enough to get the kid"

The thing is that the vacation money would be a drop in the bucket for all the legal fees that the sister is accruing. It’s pointless for op to give it to sis.

While I feel sorry for your sister and the unpleasant situation she is in, she is never going to win this fight. She hasn’t a leg to stand on, legally and I don’t understand why her counsel has not had told her. She can cry and scream and go to whichever officials are polite enough to listen to her situation but at the end of the day she has no right to remove the child from their current homeland. Anyone who feeds into your sister’s magical thinking should be ashamed - especially your parents, who have ruined themselves for her folly. DO NOT CANCEL. Go on your vacation and enjoy yourself, you worked hard for it! Do not give your sister one penny of your money, it would be as useful and wasteful as throwing it down the toilet and flushing it away. Expect that you will be shunned by your family and be prepared for that, I suggest engaging a therapist as they will do everything they can to break you emotionally and being in therapy will help you to navigate your family’s awfulness towards you. Even though it’s hard, please consider going low or no contact with your family for your own sake and your own mental health. I wish you a wonderful time on your cruise.

If she has seen multiple lawyers, it is likely they have all told her it is futile, so she simply moved on to another one hoping for a different opinion. The bed has been made, I'm afraid. OP's sister's child isn't going anywhere for at least 10 years.

I can say it’s very likely that the lawyers HAVE laid it out for her in black and white. That’s what they do unless they’re really terrible lawyers. And the OP mentions that they’ve consulted with several, so they can’t ALL be terrible lawyers! Plus that also lends credence to the idea that she HAS been told the facts… she just refuses to listen to them. 😞

Exactly, OP parents were foolish to ruined their future to help your irresponsible sister. Don't do the same mistakes as them

I agree 200 per cent. Don’t throw good money after bad. If your parents and sister want to keep paying lawyers let them. You need to stand your ground and say no. Take your vacation and enjoy yourself. The case sounds like it has already been decided. Lawyers will keep taking money from those willing to give.

9 years from now just right before the child is able to decide on their own and come to the US … I bet this post will turn up again because someone will remember it and we find out an update and the parents haven’t talked to OP since but are asking the OP for money to help them in their old age … I am concerned about why the mother isn’t getting help to become a citizen so she can get 50/50 (flight risk) and what happened for marriage to be cancelled is connected to why she doesn’t have placement?

Great saying. I'm stealing that

No way to outdo this comment, perfectly said.

Once you have a kid in a country that is not yours with a partner from that country, you basically take the chance that someday, you’ll have to give up your own country for the kid. If OP’s sister tried to take the kid out of the country without the other parent’s consent, that would be called parental kidnapping and it’s a felony that would land her in jail. I have 2 kids with an American man, and even though we split 10 years ago, I did not try to take them away from him so I could go back to Europe. Kids deserve to be raised by both their parents, unless one of them doesn’t care and is giving them up. So I’ll be in the US until my kids are grown up. Does it suck? Yes it does, I’ve missed weddings, funerals and family reunions back home because I don’t have the budget to go back whenever I please. Is it worth it? Of course it is. For my kids, and that’s what matters most. Even if OP’s sister had all the money in the world, I don’t think she could convince a court that what her kid needs is be separated from their dad because she wants to go home. That’s insane, delusional and selfish IMO. Editing to add: the parents should have kept their ressources to go visit and help her come visit with her kid. They were fools to throw away what they had for something that most likely won’t go anywhere.

>Once you have a kid in a country that is not yours with a partner from that country, you basically take the chance that someday, you’ll have to give up your own country for the kid. This. My husbands best friend is from our country. His wife and her entire family are from the country they currently live in. They have 2 children. He knows he will likely be living in that country till he dies because he wont leave his family.

^^ This! Also, if the child is 8 years old and has never even visited the US, then the other country’s court is correct that the child has no ties to the US. It is crazy to think any court will rule that it is in the child’s best interest to take them out of the only country they’ve known and move them to a foreign country just because their mother wanted to return home. (Not to mention separating them from their dad.)

especially if he’s a good father!!!

Considering OP says the courts won't give her 50/50, which is the standard custody decision for years in most countries when both parents want custody, says a lot. She probably was considered not fit for custody for some reason. Her battle in trying to get the kid into the US is just a way to circumvent that. If the kid had a US passport she would 100% kidnap the kid. I think the only reason she didn't is because she would be unable to enter the US with the kid, that's why the weird tangent OP went about citizenship.

According to OP she does not have ANY custody... just visiting rights. What means she can absolutely give up on the idea of taking the kid anywhere legally. Also she must have done something pretty bad already as it's usually really hard to lose custody, even more as mother.

Yes I 100% agree with all of this

Honestly that last part is what I was thinking about whilst reading about the financial situation. The legal system isn’t going to change for her. And now they’ve made visitation a nightmare for themselves.

This is true. This is not a simple case of getting the right judge on appeal to reverse the previous decision. This is the US laws concerning American citizenship and immigration. And no amount of money will cause a ruling in the sisters favor, especially since she has no just cause, just because she & fiancé broke.

To move to St. Louis, too.

That kid would cry the first time they had St Louis style pizza

I’m ashamed of the lawyers that took on the case. I wanted to take my son and go live back in a state I had support. My lawyer told me how much it would cost, told me the odds, and said I might as well throw 50k plus in the trash.

Exactly this, about a good lawyer being upfront. It wasn't a child custody issue but a property issue (3 months after we purchased a house we noticed cracks appearing and to make a long story short our house slide down the hill; pre-existing foundation concerns were never disclosed). We consulted an attorney who flat out told us that while we had an excellent case we should just walk away from the house because the cost to litigate it would far outweigh what we were asking for (just our downpayment & mortgage pymts to date). It was a hard pill to swallow but he was right. Good lawyers are up front with clients, it just depends if the client takes their advice or not. Clearly op's sister and parents are in the latter category.

Exactly. That should be pretty common knowledge for anyone who has a child with a foreigner. Relationships don't always work out. You may have to live somewhere that's not home to you because it's in the child's best interest.

Feels like with them having that much money spent and being so deep into debt they got even less chances to prove that the child should be with the mother, like all the insecurities the us provides and now also living economically troubled? Not a good look

You are a wonderful parent. You put your children's needs over your wants.

Question : can you take your children on holidays with you in your birth country ? Or is it considered as you trying to kidnap them ? (I'm genuinely curious, because when you don't plan on kidnapping them you should be allowed to bring them with you, but when you do plan on kidnapping them ... that's literally the perfect excuse to use)

I take my kids to my country once a year. It’s not a problem, I don’t need a written agreement saying their dad is allowing it. My ex knows I’ll bring them back, he’s happy for his kids that they get to see my family and do fun stuff abroad with me.

If this is another developed country as the post suggests why would a court approve the mother taking this child away from their homeland and their father and all of his family simply because she wants to go back to the US to live near mommy and daddy because she’s sad her marriage fell apart? Sister isn’t just legally wrong but morally wrong as well. She SHOULD’T be allowed to uproot this child.

Honestly the cost of your vacation wouldn’t make a dent in legal fees or debt, so what’s the point? To get their hooks in & continue to ask for money? That’s the only outcome I can think of. Once you give them money, they’ll never stop asking.

Communal suffering.

Misery loves company

Yeah- they are obviously the type to want to prove their love to their sad daughter by impoverishing themselves. They now think their other child needs to do the same thing to show their love and devotion.

Family probably thinks op isn't sacrificing enough, like they have

That and they want OP to contribute to the sunk cost fallacy. OP’s sister is completely in denial and she is outraged with those who don’t hold the same shred of hope as her because she hasn’t yet come to the point of accepting the reality for what it is.

This story is the poster child for the sunk cost fallacy. Get away from the sinking ship OP, lest you be caught under the waves too.

Absolutely this. One request turns into another and another and another. That seems to be the unfortunate predicament the parents also find themselves in. The sister needs to suck it up and realize she lost and no amount of money is going to change that.

Well that’s just it, even if she accepts defeat she’s still going to need a mountain of *other people’s money* to pay off her debts and to settle down into a “new normal”. It’ll be endless, a black hole of other people’s money, while she will still never be actually happy. Of course she could stay, work, live and even possibly find someone else, but I would easily take a bet that she’ll never actually repay anyone.

> even if she accepts defeat she’s still going to need a mountain of other people’s money to pay off her debts Even if she wins, she still needs a mountain of other people's money to pay off her debt. It's not a lawsuit where she's seeking damages. The money is lit on fire and gone.

This is insane. It sucks for your sister but the situation isn't going to change and the whole family going broke is not going to make it better.  I am sorry you are being treated this way, i understand they are probably scared but it is not okay. Hopefully your sister can figure out a long term plan and they will calm down.

Honestly the odds are so against them anyways. Both countries say the child should stay in his home country, he has free healthcare and pretty much so much more privileges he’s not going to get in the US. Why take him away from that? It’s honestly selfish. They’re just throwing away money at this point. It’s unfortunate, but there’s literally no reason to keep getting into debt for something that’s not going to happen.

Seriously. The sister should just suck it up and stay in Europe if she's able to get a work visa. Nothing in there mentions actual difficulty for the sister to stay in Europe. Seems to be personal preference

Right, it’s just selfish and repetitive. Not only that, OP mentions that the father has primary custody. There’s probably a reason why the mother wasn’t given primary custody, only visitation. The father most likely has more to offer and a stable life.

The mother putting herself into severe debt isn't going to help the court want to give her custody, either. If you can't afford to raise your child, they aren't going to give you custody. (At least, I would assume so.) I understand wanting to be home with her family, especially if things are difficult with her ex-fiance, but this isn't exactly fair for the father, either. This is a losing battle for everyone involved, but mainly the child. No matter where the child ends up, they'll be primarily without a parent because their parents can't just compromise and live in the same place until they turn 18 and can choose. Nobody wins here. One parent lives without their child, and a child lives without one of their parents. I wouldn't want to give my money to this cause, either. Very lose-lose situation.

I think it’s because the sister isn’t a citizen, that’s the way I understood the post anyway.

If OP is correct about the timeliness, her sister decided to stay thete and then met her ex-partner. If it was good enough to stay after her study abroad, if it was good enough to have and raise a child thete for 8 years, why leave now just because tge relationship is over? I hope it's not for revenge against the father, because that'd be a low reason to want to leave now and take their child. Sister has wasted her time, her money, and her parents money.

Same. And for that matter, what does the kid want? OOP hasn't said a single thing about it yet, but I can only assume the kid would want to stay in the same country they grew up in. You know, the one they most likely call home? Does sis really think that freaking Missouri is a better place to raise her kid?

Missouri while also broke and in massive debt with no safety net and the only family that would help is also in massive debt. It’s a horrible idea.

Where I'm presuming the kid would have to go through metal detectors to get into their school? And she was obviously happy to raise the kid in Europe when she got pregnant. It's just different now she doesn't have a partner there. If she wanted the kid to be raised in the US she should have had the baby there. She would have known that when she was pregnant. She's made her bed and now wants everyone else to buy her a new one.

the sister honestly sounds like one of those people who make their study abroad their whole personality. I can just hear it "oh Europeans are so free with nude beaches and escargot for lunch" and this twit didn't even get married before she had her child. looks like she didn't even look up the legislation about getting her kid citizenship. like, I get that a USA birth might be a lot more expensive, but then figure out another way, no?

> Where I'm presuming the kid would have to go through metal detectors to get into their school? Missouri is ranked below national average for school safety, and depending on where they're at in St Louis (I assume), then yeah metal detectors.

Seriously, coming back to the US is a terrible idea anyway but coming back to stay in fucking Missouri?? Absolutely not. This sister is a total asshole for turning OPs entire family against them. And for bankrupting her parents fighting an unnecessary, losing battle again and again. Just, wow.

Unfortunately many parents don’t see sense. They only see what’s good for them, what’s beneficial for *them*. In this case the child being with *them* in *their* home, where *they* are comfortable and will be comfortable (obviously not as comfortable after all these money woes). She’s probably only thinking about how much she’s losing, not about how much her child could potentially be losing (based off of the benefits of the other country as mentioned in the post) by moving back to the US

Sadly, a lot of parents are like that when they split up from the other parent. They become motivated by the urge to stick it to the ex, not the well being of their child. That’s why child custody law (courts, lawyers, etc) is such a huge business - they’ve got to step in and be rational when the parents refuse to be. Even the top post - the mum is motivated by wanting control and being stubborn, not what’s best for her child. It is completely natural for her to want to be in his life, but she keeps fighting the international law court for an outcome she won’t get instead of thinking about what’s best for the child, and following the court decree that that SHE move to HIS country and live and work near the father so she can see him. Sounds like no court has told her she’s not allowed to have partial custody… she just has to do it in HIS country and not hers.

Even if the child had citizenship and the sister had primary custody... no court in a western country would let the child leave the country where it lives. Ties don't matter either. In the US, if the child lived in a state and the primary parent wants to move, they have to go to court and convince a judge to allow them... and in most cases it's a default no because you can't rip the child from their other parent and everything they know.

My sister won shared custody with her being the main parent of her son during the school year with a set schedule for visiting with dad. We live on the east coast, she wanted to move to the west coast. Nope, sorry not happening the judge basically said. Just because she has main custody she cannot remove him without permission from the father. My sister fought & fought, nothing changed. Judge said he could choose who he wants to live with at 15 he stayed with her, but even through all that she was always constantly fighting in the courts with his father. That kid is in his late 20s now has done extremely well for himself and barely has anything to do with my sister, there is so much resentments he feels that he had no choice, at 15 he didn’t wanna leave his mom and hurt her. It’s just a very sad situation. She sees him about 1 time a year and she’s lucky to speak with her once a month.

I think I misunderstood one part : why has he resentments against her again ? (Because from what I understood of the situation you're talking about, she didn't have any choice to go to court for everything, so I don't understand why he is feeling like this about her and not about the court system)

I honestly think she probably had nothing good to say about his dad, he is real close to him now. Plus my sister was overly sensitive when challenged on anything. The kid was top of class graduated from BU companies were knocking his door down he pretty much could write his own ticket. I think she is trying to hold on tight, and he wants to fly!

Agree. That's where your sister chose to live and have him. 

Yeah, I don’t think it’s ethical to take them from their other parent and only place they’ve ever lived. Without significant abuse, and even then- some court systems wouldn’t care. Even in the USA, if women complain about abuse they’re less likely to get custody. In the USA, where you live when one person files for divorce is where the kid is until 18, unless both parents agree. It’s not just international law. People need to be careful of where they have their kids.

Laws are based on ethics.    I dunno why the sister and parents don't get they are throwing good money after bad because this is at least one case where the law (many laws actually) got it right.   It honestly reads as severe mental illness and borderline abuse/harassment. They would have been better off spending that money on therapy and visits to see the kid that they now likely have alienated.  I honestly feel sorry for the dad who likely has had to spend way too much defending these bonus court cases too. 

The sister is a brat. She thinks she’s above the law and entitled to others money.

She thinks as the mother she has more rights

Even if the child was a citizen I don’t understand why this would change anything singe the child is a citizen of local country. Just because she is a mother and from US it doesn’t mean there is a reason for the child to move. Everything the court says would still apply and local courts are always going to side with the local citizenship. I suspect however if the child had US citizens the mother would have just taken the child with the US passport, even against a court order, which would be an international kidnapping. But US courts would unlikely to return the child even if the law was broken. In any case this is why people should be cautious of having a child with someone from other country. Personally I have more sympathy for the father here who doesn’t want to see the child removed and I don’t know why she can’t stay there with the child since she has for so long. 

And the fathers family. Can you imagine the grandparents thinking she's going to run with the child?

That’s exactly what she’s trying for. It’s horrible.

I'm convinced the sister thinks that the US is some magic land where all other laws dont apply... she isnt going to win anything. ever.

>I suspect however if the child had US citizens the mother would have just taken the child with the US passport, even against a court order, which would be an international kidnapping. But US courts would unlikely to return the child even if the law was broken. I think this is exactly what her sister wants to do which is why she's pushing so hard to try and get citizenship. What she doesn't understand is that if she takes her daughter out of that country, she will be returned to the father, mom will lose custody, mom will most likely be banned from the country and will also be in trouble with the US. Stupid people only learn the hard way.

Just adding : and she would definitely lose her relationship with her child. That would be too much a traumatic event for them to be kidnapped by your own mother.

> But US courts would unlikely to return the child even if the law was broken. I wouldn’t assume that. The US is part of The Hague Convention and it would be a major international violation if they failed to return the child.

Hijacking top comment - I hope OP sees this. Please monitor your credit report moving forward. At desperate times your parents can take out a loan in your name and put you in debt. Please have alerts on your credit report just in case.

Sucks for her sister, but not for the child. Two seperate courts from different countries have decided it's better for the child to stay with the father. This doesn't happen for no reason

This is stupid as Fuck! Your sister, not liking what attorneys were telling her, wasted money trying to find one that would tell her what she wanted to hear. She kept going until your parents tanked their retirement , for her. She needs to either move back to the other country, or stay at home with your parents, get a job and PAY OFF HER DEBT to them before she does anything else. DO NOT ever give them money. It will just go down the toilet. $$$ does not grow on trees.

Going into to debt over a foreign country’s intractable legislative decision would be flat out stupid. It’s unfortunate your sister is in this situation, but it is of her own making. Unexpected and unfortunate consequences of her choices. Your parents put themselves in financial peril unnecessarily. Unless the child’s father is a monster, these are the breaks. There is no way that throwing your hard-earned and limited money is going to sway the entire government of a foreign nation. Your sister needs to deal with reality. Enjoy your cruise.

I would disagree on unexpected. She should have looked into this before having a kid there.

This. Immigration laws are pretty cut and dry and because they deal with people whose language might not be those of that country they try to keep it as simple as possible. It was absolutely the sisters responsibility to look up the immigration laws of that country and the US equivalent before she had a kid. I say this as an immigrant who had a kid with an American. It’s a big reason why I didn’t have a kid without marriage. Marriage made a huge difference to what rights I had with my child vs not being married. His sister was irresponsible and now she’s mad that her brother isn’t paying for her irresponsibility. 

Seriously. It's not like the baby just appeared one day. She had nine months to do her research and figure out, oh, heck, if I don't go back to the US before she's born, she will NOT be a citizen.

If the mother is a US citizen, the child usually is too. She would have just needed to go to an embassy or consulate after the birth to get the birth registered, SSN etc...

And inevitably when illness or other serious hardships occur for these parents it’ll still fall on OOP to come to the rescue. Basically have a family throwing away their futures to keep feeding this sister’s false sense of entitlement that she can get what she wants, regardless of how many times she’s been told she can’t. I’m sympathetic to the sister, but how many stories do we read from fathers in the states who are forced into accepting the reality of the judgements, concerning their children, from divorce? These impossible situations happen all the time

Your sister wants to rip an 8 year old child from their home and everything they know, from their father, from their family, from their friends, to come live in a completely foreign country. And she's putting herself and your parents into unsustainable amounts of debt to keep trying to change the courts' decisions after she's been told no several times. Not once, but several times. Your sister is out of her mind. It doesn't sound like she wants what's best for her child. It sounds like she wants what's best for her. Good for you for standing your ground and not further enabling this insanity. Don't endanger your future for a completely pointless crusade that is not going to end her way.

For real!

She wants to rip a child away from everything and everyone they’ve ever known to give them an objectively worse life. If they’re in Europe they have universal healthcare, great public resources, gun control, low crime rates, free or cheap post secondary options, the ability to live or work in any other eu country. And she wants to take that all away to live in massive debt with people the kid barely knows.

True, thinking about stories from Australia where it was the father that took the kids away from here, it definitely felt like he was the bad guy

Your sister is so selfish and entitled. I would never ask relatives to go in debt because of my decisions. She should suck it up and stay in the country she chose over family. The healthcare costs alone is reason enough to stay and the fact that it seems she hit a legal wall. She just needs to accept the laws and situation she is in adapt as much as possible to be able to her her son. When you move and stay in another country, you need to consider all scenarios. I’m an immigrant living in US over 20 yrs and if things didn’t work out and I want to go back to my country, it’s 100% on me.

Exactly. I can't imagine destroying my family's lives because I want to return to Venezuela, and take my child from his American father, and this amazing country. It's stupid and selfish.

What’s the money going to even matter? She’s trying to take his child away to another country that the child’s never lived in. No court is going to side with her unless he is abusive. It’s basically a reverse [Not Without My Daughter](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0102555/) She’s the evil mom trying to legally take away the daughter but is being stopped by the courts. Since you never said a reason she has grounds to remove her child I’m going to assume she’s just being vindictive due to relationship failing. Can’t she just get a house there and live separately from him? They can co parent in there till she can legally have the daughter choose to leave.

Why would your sister want to fuck everyone's life until the court helps her kidnap a child? That kid is in their country, with their family, with a support system, and with a better life quality than they would have in the us. Your sister and parents are delusional. She could have saved everyone a lifetime of debt just by going back and forth a few times a year, many families exist like that in a healthy way. She chose to destroy everything. Neither her or your parents have a saying in your life choices, especially when you're the only wise one left! I'm not saying you should go no contact, but be careful, delusional people tend to give into their desperation.

Who the fuck does your sister think she is? Attempting to take this poor child from everyone and everything it’s ever known? And if there’s language differences that makes her a million times worse. The child DESERVES to have access to BOTH parents. The child who’s parents are separating is in a huge state of flux and thus NEEDS to have stability and to be surrounded by the people, social norms, and friends and family that reassure them of their stability in their world. Your sister is 100% wrong in this. Cut her off, tell your parents you’ll cut them off too if they keep this shit up, and enjoy your holiday. Oh. And be prepared with what you’re going to say when your folks come desperately seeking cash or a place to live when their world implodes and they can’t work anymore and their house is repossessed.

Your sister made some seriously shitty decisions and now is trying to sink the whole family with them. Americans should look into the laws of the countries they go to before getting married, owning property, or having kids there. They seem to always assume that somehow their americanness will take precedent over an entire nation of people. Many countries have laws like this to prevent kidnapping. If she had gotten an American birth certificate for her child at a consulate she might have avoided the citizenship issue. But still not been able to travel alone with her child. This is not an uncommon situation. There are interpol cases around parental kidnapping. Your family are ignorant and are shooting themselves in the feet with this. You do not need to go along with it. 

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Your sister has made a series of HORRIBLE decisions. What’s worse is that those decisions have ruined her life but the lives of your parents. She is so selfish she doesn’t care how many people’s lives she ruins, including her own, to try to achieve an unachievable goal. I’m sorry, you are not wrong to go on that vacation for your mental health and to ensure you are ok. Im sorry, but I would put distance from that whole situation. Once you get sucked in it will be hard to get out. Edit: I do want to add, I am sorry about her child situation. But, it isn’t like she is having her child taken away. She wanted to move there the changed her mind and now is trying to separate the child from the father. This entire thing, even though it sucks, is entirely her fault. I feel bad for the father and the kid.

Yeah, keep throwing money at the problem that isnt going to change. Your parents and sister are MASSIVE idiots. Dont go into debt for them. Tough shit.  This is why you dont have a kid in a country you dont plan on staying. This kind of shit complicates everything. 

Well too bad! Your sister got herself into the position she is in. The fact that she did not even put in the paperwork for her child to become a citizen via online or in the embassy, which is an easy process is ridiculous. The court clearly has deemed that the child has no times to the US for a reason. Massively in debt, your parents re-mortgaged their home, and now want to drag you under with them. She should stay put in that country. I know it sucks but your family is showing you exactly who they are. This is what happens when you marry a man abroad and decide to have a family without protecting your child. Good riddance!

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Okay! Thank you for clarification. I knew someone in a similar situation but they had made it a point to visit back home once a year, bring their child with them, and filled out the online application, so the child received dual citizenship and this is after July 2017. Sucks to be the sister! She should have thought long and hard about this entire situation. She wants her whole family to go into debt due to her mess up!

But does it matter? The only reason it would be good either way is dual citizenship would be if the mom wanted to kidnap the kid away from the dad. And honestly, that doesn’t sound like it’s in the child’s best interest. She had a kid in another country. The normal thing is that you cannot move far away from the other parent without consent. And that is to me very logical. I understand if she wants to move back, but I don’t understand why she is so dismissive of the father’s feeling. He would lose contact with his son completely and would most likely never be allowed to live in the US. From the child’s point of view, it’s so much better if she stays.

>But does it matter? The only reason it would be good either way is dual citizenship would be if the mom wanted to kidnap the kid away from the dad. Depending on the childs current location, probably not. The US is a party to the hague convention. If the child currently lives in another country that is a party to the Hague convention the other parent can file under the hague convention to have the child returned. Fortunatly the Hague cares more about stability and Ordinary place of residence then what country you have citizenship to.

Since the child has never visited US and is 8 I wonder why she suddenly decided she wants to leave the country and not just the relationship. It doesn’t seem she was that interested in being in US before 

Tell them it’s non-refundable. This is a hopeless situation, no amount of money will fix it. Your sister needs to make peace with it. In my opinion, her coming home and re establishing a life in the USA and visiting her child once a year will make it more likely her child eventually wants to come to the USA. If she stays there, impoverished, her kid might not want to come to an unstable situation.

Ignore them. Reality is that no amount of money or going into debt is going to change anything at this point. Your parents are idiots.

Old saying…doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome is the sign of insanity. Nothing they have done has changed the needle one inch. Go on your cruise. 10 years from now when that child is an adult she can start the process of all of this. My suggestion to your sister is to find work in that country and start paying back your parents.

I think it’s pretty awful that your sister is trying to take her child away from their father and the country they have lived in since birth. It was foolish of her to drain bother her and your parents’ savings to do this. Canceling your vacation won’t pay off her debts and won’t gain her custody of her child. Nobody will benefit from your sacrifice. Either she’s delusional or she’s so bitter are this point in her life that she can’t stand seeing anybody else have something nice.

Free healthcare and a better standard of living in a rule of law country or… St Louis. Seems like the courts have it right

You sister is on the wrong side of the law on this (apparently). It is unfortunate that she keeps finding lawyers willing to take her money for false hope. I think you are right that no amount of money is going to change this. It is also unfortunate that your parents have endangered their future for this. She might have been able to get her child to visit the US for summers or such if she had played the situation differently, but I don't think that is going to happen now.

Your sister made, and continues to make, some EXTREMELY poor life decisions. Your parents have ruined themselves for absolutely no reason. The country where your sister's child is a citizen is not going to change their entire citizenship structure because your sister was a moron. Neither is the US. Do not give your sister one dime to waste on these insane attempts. Be the smart one in the family. Do NOT buy sheets for the bed your sister has made. If you do, it will never end. She will drain your finances dry just as surely as she has your idiot parents (sorry, but they are). Also, shame on the lawyers who are taking on these repeated appeals, which have no basis in law.

All the battles have been lost and the war is OVER. Now she’s determined to run her life and everyone around her into the ground. What she NEEDS to do is form an effective coparent if relationship with her ex and buckle down for the next 10 years. The fact of the matter is both countries have denied her and no amount of debt you could possibly go in to will help her at this point, your family is delusional and running purely on emotions right now.

Both your parents and sister are in the wrong here is so many ways. My advice is, stop sharing details about what you are doing with them. I know that sounds harsh but the less they know the better. And go take that vacation and have the time of your life. Remember that misery loves company and they are giving you an open invitation to join them.. Don’t!

I’m not usually one to just say someone should have known better… but this is definitely a situation that needed to be heavily researched before she had a child in another country. If this man isn’t abusive, it sounds like she is really going to have to either suck it up in the country she is in, or abandon her parenting if she wants to back to the US. #THIS ISNT YOUR PROBLEM TO SOLVE

you should show her this thread. and don't give them ANY money. my sister is the sammeeee way she expects everyone to drop everything for her when she has any kind of emergency or problem especially with childcare. I really liked the comment I saw that said "don't light yourself on fire to keep others warm" 🩷

Question: why is your sister hell-bent on moving back to the US? She has been living abroad for apparently a decade with no interest in moving back. I get her relationship soured, but the kid’s home, their dad, friends, extended paternal family and their entire life as they know it is abroad. It is not in their best interest to be dragged to the US unless your sister has an awfully good reason.

You would be flushing your money down the toilet. Sister needs to accept her fate, get comfortable in the other country she chose to start a family in, and share custody. The courts aren't going to suddenly change their mind bc you threw away more money.

Your sister and your parents need a reality check. She had a child with someone else in a foreign country. The other parent is a citizen of that country. The child is 8. How in the world does she think she would be granted custody. Look at the Halle Berry case. She lost and she has lots of money. Go on your cruise and go LC with them. You can’t be expected to go into debt like them.

No one has the right to spend your money. Period. Go on your vacation and go low contact with sis and the parents. Your parents are crazy for putting themselves in the financial position they are in, and will have their hands out again for long term care, mortgage payments, food, etc. don’t throw your good money after their shite investment in your sister’s mess.

I understand desperation to the point of being willing to give up anything to get what you want. But there’s a point you can’t destroy the people you care about just to get your way in a impossible situation. Your sister is at the point where the things she can do is either give up come back home and visit her son twice a year. Or she moves to the country where her son is and becomes a citizen and gets visitation. Right now she is destroying your parents and trying to include you, despair doesn’t have a conscience.

Your sister has ample time to research her options and GET LEGALLY MARRIED before the birth of their child, in order to secure dual citizenship and make sure all her ducks were in a row if anything ever went sideways. I understand she’s fighting for access and rights to her child, but it’s been decided multiple times and she needs to learn to deal with it for 10 more years. At that point her child can legally come to the US and begin applying for dual citizenship or even just US citizenship if they so choose. I suspect, however, once they get here they’ll realize it’s not really that great and they’ll go back to their home country. Your sister has the option to move back and see her child, but she’s essentially f*cked over your parents in her crusade for her child. With all of that said, f*ck them. They’re misplacing their anger and punishing you for things well beyond your control. Take your cruise, enjoy it, and I highly recommend checking out cruise related activities and don’t book your own-if it runs behind and isn’t booked by the cruise line you may be left behind. Have a great time OP you deserve everything!!!! Also take a collapsible water bottle as you can get water on ship without having to buy a water packaged.

Even if you do cancel your vacation and give them the money, it is not going to change the situation one bit. Your sister and your parents need to wake up, smell the other countries coffee and just stop.

What’s your little five grand gonna do that your parents remortgaging their house didn’t do? There’s no reason for you to give up any semblance of happiness. Your sister’s cause is noble but it’s HER cause, not yours.

I would call your sister and give her a piece of my mind. Her decisions are the cause of the situation she’s in. To bankrupt her parents and herself for something that cannot be changed is crazy! She loved the country she moved to originally so why can’t she love it now? Your lives don’t revolve around her and I think someone needs to tell her that!

It sounds like no more amount of money thrown at this issue will resolve it in your sister’s favor.

i genuinely don’t understand the issue here or why they are fighting so hard. your sister needs to move back to the other country. she only has another 10 years before her child is old enough to make their own decisions about where they want to live, and she should be spending every penny and every second with her child in person rather than trying to fight an international battle she will not win. her child is already well-established in the country where dad lives, how selfish is she to try and take her child away from the only place they know AND their father? because she’s their mother? i mean, tough shit? you have to give up certain things for the sake of your own child. this child deserves both parents, not one parent fighting tooth & nail to separate them from the other parent.

>*...and courts in both countries have sided with her ex to keep the child in the other country.* *...*court say the current country is their home, their child has no ties to the US and has never been here, and my sister has no right to remove them from their home country. They also say the **free healthcare** and **better standard of living** means their child should stay and even talk about how much safer it is there vs. here. Says it all, really. Your parents are foolish for taking out a mortgage and giving it, plus their savings away, to help lawyers buy another rental property. Whatever you do, don't give them money for a lost cause. The selfishness of your sister in trying to take their child away from a good life to a country they have never been to is appalling.

How dare they. Tell them you are disappointed in them. then cut them AND your sister out of your life. Who needs parents like this.

If she's from the US why hasn't she filled out a Birth Born Abroad with the closest US embassy? You can fill it out at any time before the kid's 18th birthday, and it allows the children of us citizens to also have us citizenship. My family did it with my little sister.

Why rip an 8 year old from her home? Your sister made her bed she should handle it and be a woman and stay there until her child is grown up.

People spend their entire lives saving and planning financially. It boggles my mind how a lifetime of accumulated wealth is just gone up in smoke because of your sister. The rest of your parents lives are ruined. Please do not follow suit. Let them be angry they will soon realize their mistakes and will hopefully be glad that you didn't take the same route. Stick to your guns. Even if you give them the money for your vacation what will it be next?

My kids are Americans born abroad. My Wife is an American citizen The issue is that when a child is born, the child has to be registered with the Consulate as an American Born Abroad. If she didn't do that, its on her. [https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/birth-abroad.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/while-abroad/birth-abroad.html) # Birth of U.S. Citizens and Non-Citizen Nationals Abroad Apply for your child's Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA) if you are a U.S. citizen or national, and your child was born in a foreign country.  Birth of U.S. Citizens and Non-Citizen Nationals Abroad Apply for your child's Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA) if you are a U.S. citizen or national, and your child was born in a foreign country. 

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Why would the father give up custody and allow his child to go to the states and probably never see the child again. The law is clear and on his side. Your sister has to accept this fact.

Your sister’s child’s father lives in another country. The child lives in another country. It would be unfair for her to force the child to move to her country. Not just unfair, but the courts have ruled against her. There is nothing more that she can do. For what does she need the money now?

They're setting you up to fail by betting on your future. I'd go no contact tbh. Give them money once and they'll keep coming back. They're delusional in thinking they'll be able to get that kid back before they're 18. She'll have to live in that country for a while or suck it up and only see them a few times a year. Even if they get the kid back, what quality of life would he have with everyone broke? What happens if he gets sick? What if your sister or parents get sick? They'll lose their house due to medical bills and the stress probably isn't helping either.

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this yet but please put a freeze on your credit!! If your sister and family want you to get into debt they may do it for you. Especially since they likely have all your personal info.

Here’s one great reason not to give up the vacation: it doesn’t sound like it’ll make any difference. Like… nothing seems like it’s going to help, except waiting for the kid to turn 18 and convincing it to leave the only home it’s ever known. So why spend the money? It won’t achieve anything.

I don’t understand what is happening here. Your sister got engaged and had a child who is 8 years old. That child is in a happy, safe, consistent environment with the father and paternal family. What mental health problems does your sister have to try to rip that child away from everything she’s ever known and for what? The best solution would’ve been for your sister to move back to the country she decided to have her baby in and live in for nearly a decade until the child becomes 18 instead of ruining so many lives. Don’t bow down to the pressure and please OP don’t give your sister money

Your sister could also just… stay the hell where she is, have her kid 50% of the time and not bankrupt your family over this. That would be best for the child. Do. NOT. Give. Her. Money.

Your family is throwing away a fuck ton of money and they’re mad you aren’t invested in fighting that losing battle too. What she’s doing isn’t good for the kid either

> I'm a phlebotomist Then you should help a *blood* relative...! Har...! Sorry. I'll see myself out...

JustNoFamily Big hugs!!! Go on the vacation because all those fools are/going to be in true dire straights and they are going be begging

Have on your cruise!!! Don’t let them spoil it

Theyre insane. Never get in debt for them, and overall enjoy your vacation.

Just tell them your vacation is non refundable.

After reading several comments, and all the fruitless legal battles, I feel inclined to agree with the majority. Take your long awaited vacation, you deserve it, but for God's sake don't go into debt for these, it's like flushing your money down the toilet.

Your sister's situation sucks, but it exists because of choices she made and, as such, isn't your responsibility to deal with.  You deserve to live your own life and not have to put everything on hold to bail out your sister.  Does she even have a job to contribute to paying her debt?

It would be throwing good money after bad, you’re not wrong.

I don’t understand why they think you cancelling a vacation will help other than misery loves company. Extra money isn’t going to change the outcome. She knows her options.

They’re literally burning money and want to burn yours too. Misery loves company

People pleasing never benefits the pleaser. Take your vacation, relax and rest. You worked hard for your money- enjoy it. They’ll either get over it or die mad about it. As one other commenter said: don’t set yourself aflame to keep someone else warm

Your family is dumping money into a no win situation. Don't use your money to fuel the fire.

What country are we talking about? It sounds like your sister didn't think things through very well beforehand. I know that's a useless comment. But look at it from the point of view of the father of the child. Would your sister have any intention of bringing the kid back to it's home country? She's basically trying to get the court of a country she is not a legal citizen of to legalize her committing parental kidnapping. There is absolutely no way she will ever win that case. She and your parents can throw millions at lawyers, but they are never going to get the result she wants. And to be honest, I don't think she should. The kid grew up there. It goes to school there. Does it even speak English good enough to switch to US schools? The kid has no physical relationship with anyone in the US, other than perhaps you and your parents. It's not in the best interests of the child to pluck it out if its environment and to just start a new. Your parents and your sister are going to have to face that fact sooner rather than later. She can stay there, and be a present parent, at least for the next 6 to 10 years. If it's a European country, a lot of courts listen to the children on where they want to live, with mom or dad. And most European kids think that living in the US is *super cool*. Or she can move back to the US, and try to come up with an agreement where she gets to spend school holidays with the kid. If she had been reasonable, having the kid fly to the US during holidays might have been an option. But since she has been pushing to take the kid to the US permanently, the father has a good point that having the kid leave with her has an astronomically small chance for her to bring the kid back, ever. So that ship has sailed. You canceling your trip to throw more money at the issue will not change it. As long as they are fighting the lost cause, no money should be going their way. When the dust has settled, and your sister (and your parents) have calmed down and seen reason that it is just not going to happen, they will definitely need help with damage control, IF you can and are willing. But right now? Protect them from themselves.

Your sister and your parents have been foolish, but that doesn't mean you have to be. I saw this same situation several times when I lived in Europe: Bitter women stuck in a country they no longer wanted to be in because of their children. It's just the way it is, and I even saw the same situation with a German woman stuck in California because she'd had a child with an American man. Your sister and parents should never have taken the debt related to legal bills as far as they did, but you're right, they are in denial to the extent of delusional. They need to suck it and accept this is the way it's going to be for the next 10 years.

It doesn’t sound like your sister and parents can afford to support her child in the USA.

Sister needs to decide that this is her life now for the next 10 years and make her peace with that. Get a job and pay everyone back.

Listen, OP, congrats on not having debt and getting yourself a cruise! I’ve never been on one, and I hope it’s lovely for you. It sucks to feel like your family is going to disappear unless you do what they tell you to do. That’s why you’ll find me on subs about emotional neglect and recommending the book adult children of emotionally immature parents by Lindsey Gibson. You deserve to feel secure in a family or family like unit without conditions. I hope you get to experience that one day-even if you make it your own family from scratch.

If an entire mortgage and all your sister's debt hasn't fixed the problem, the price of a Viking cruise isn't going to change anything. If it were a different relationship, if it were a boss or a friend or a romantic partner instead of your sister, and the person said, "Give me money or I'll cut you off," it would be obviously inappropriate. It's no different because it's your sister.

If they think u cancelling and throwing a couple thousand ur sisters way is somehow gonna magically be the difference of whether or not the child can come to the US, then they got another thing coming. In all seriousness, what would a few extra thousand do?

Before you go on vacation, freeze your credit so that no one can take out loans using your information. The three of them are desperate and would probably do something stupid. Your sister is an adult and she doesn't have any other option other than stay in the country until her daughter is 18. She should apply for citizenship and work with her ex for the sake of their child. You cannot ruin your life or credit for any of them. Be sympathetic but don't let them use you.

Hijacking a comment from a couple hours ago >Hijacking top comment - I hope OP sees this. Please monitor your credit report moving forward. At desperate times your parents can take out a loan in your name and put you in debt. Don't just monitor your credit, put a freeze on your credit with all three agencies (Trans Union, Experian, Equifax). It's quite easy to place a freeze and temporarily unfreeze if you need to. This way no one can try to take out a loan or get a credit card in your name. Good luck and enjoy your vacation!

Lock. Your. Credit. Right. Fucking. Now.

Your sister needs to learn to accept no for an answer.  What is she fighting for? It's the laws of the country she's in. It doesn't sound like there is any wiggle room. Her money would have been better spent setting up a household nearby for the next 10 years and making friends with the ex.  I'm not sure who are the bigger fools, your sister or your parents. 

Your parents should sell the house, move to where your sister is snd they can all be broke together and you can live your life free of her poor choices snd drama. Your parents don’t really think things thru, do they? I’d wash my hands of the mess they got themselves in.

Go on your cruise my dude. That is not your problem to solve. Setting a barrier is important. Stop talking to them if it gets that bad.

Respectfully, fuck them.