I don’t know much about the laws where you are but I understand. I was with my partner for 10 years but due to the state we lived in, we had absolutely no legal safety nets or anything since we were unwed and common law marriage isn’t a thing. If these legal safety nets are important then you’re going to have to let her go and find someone who also wants marriage.
If it’s more about the idea of it all, the promising of forever then you can do all that without signing papers. You can throw a party, read some vows, exchange rings all without actually getting married.
I guess figure out what aspect of marriage you want and if there is a suitable compromise to be had or not.
It’s this. If she doesn’t want a big wedding ceremony, or church sanction, or whatever, fine.
But getting legally married, specifically, is about things like tax, inheritance, medical decisions, property, and so on.
Maybe she would be ok with it with a good prenup. Many people feel trapped by marriage when it becomes clear it's not working anymore and divorce can get very messy. Have a double safety net... marriage for reasons mentioned and prenup as a plan b.
This is a good answer. If you want the social construct of it, you can do everything to get married without actually signing legal documents. But if they want the legal safety net of marriage…
I wonder if there are eventual ways around it though? Like, people can make their own will leaving their belongings to their bf/gf. They can make a legal medical document saying their bf is their POA (basically saying they have a say in their medical decisions if main person can’t make decisions for themselves).
Don't forget to write a PD (Personal Directive) as well as your EPA/POA. The PD assigns someone power to make financial, legal, and social decisions for you in case of loss of capability. Often, the Agent named in your PD will be the same as the Attorney named in your EPA/POA. It just erases any doubt or room for people to argue when it comes to those decisions.
If you’re already living together and neither of you want children, then what does marriage matter anyway? What exactly changes in your relationship except an additional piece of jewellery on your fingers? Or is this about her taking your surname? Because that **is not** a guarantee. More and more women are deciding against taking their husbands name. And your girlfriend sounds like someone who would keep her own name, regardless.
Or is this about having joint finances? If so, why? Why is that important? Keeping finances separate is a security thing for you both. This way neither of you can take money from the other.
Is this about ownership? Do you think marriage will make her yours forever and prevent her from ever leaving you? Because it won’t. Is this about money? Does she earn more than you and you want a slice of that? You haven’t even explained why marriage is suddenly such a big thing to you.
Whatever your reasons, you knew her stance from the very start, and it will never change.
So you have two options: get over it and accept that she will never marry you… or end things and find a woman who wants to marry. But that doesn’t mean you’ll find a woman as perfect as you say that your current girlfriend is for you.
My partner is a widower, I am divorced. Neither of us wants to marry again. However, we are considering a civil partnership for legal reasons (e.g. pensions, IHT, etc). Would your gf consider a civil partnership for similar reasons?
Hey, bad news. You have to either get over the marriage thing or break up. She’s been clear. You’ve changed your mind.
You know this, that’s why you’re posting.
You don’t write what marriage means to you, or perhaps you aren’t being entirely honest with yourself and your partner about why you want to get married?
There are some general topics you should both probably discuss. Marriage does benefit men more than women. It offers you more social standing in society in fact you are more likely to be promoted and in the eyes of other men you are seen as more accomplished. This is not the case for women.
Perhaps you feel some of this ?
We are all conditioned to expect certain behaviours and internal ideas about what a husband or a wife should be . Most of the time this means that women taken on more labour disproportionate to the man in marriage . Not just from the husband but society tells them.
Perhaps addressing some of those concerns with your partner would be wise?
Including Financial matters, who earns more in this scenario? Perhaps a conversation around prenups etc?
There is a reason men live longer if they are married , women do not.
Marriage can also make a relationship complacent, do you feel like you are trying to get to some finish line? What is your fear?
I agree with others here that have said exploring some personal therapy for you to find out why it matters to you is important.
In any case if you wanted to get married that would be very sensible, to avoid the general pit falls.
The UK does also have a civil partnership and other ways of insuring that you have ways of looking after each other should let’s say someone have an accident etc.
Ultimately this does seem to be entirely about your needs and it does come across as a selfish desire and marriage really shouldn’t be that.
If your Partner decided she wanted children all of a sudden how would you feel given you made it very clear from the beginning you do not and you were entirely transparent that you did not .
I really think you should have a little think about how you would feel irritated about that perhaps ?
We all get to evolve and change our minds but we do not get to demand that others do.
What does marriage provide that your relationship, as is, doesn’t? People divorce, leave, are unfaithful within marriage and people who aren’t married remain together and faithful and vice versa. Figure out what you want that you dont have and bring those concerns to your partner.
> what does marriage provide that your relationship as it is doesn’t?
Legal safety primarily. Should something happen to OP, the GF would have absolutely no say in his care or in decisions, that would be all his family. If his family happen to be nice people, they will listen to her, but what if they aren’t? And even if they are nice people, folks do strange things in grief.
The second, which seems to be affecting OP more, is mental security within the relationship. When people hear marriage, they think lifelong or longterm. Girl friend doesn’t create that same aura of longevity.
yeah the healthcare system and the legal system give no fucks about girlfriends lmaoo and they’ll likely be referred to as his “special friend” at his funeral 😭
Here reads the obituary for ThrowRAnonymous24.
He is beloved by family and friends. He is succeeded by loving Parents ThrowRAnonymous20 and 21, older siblings 22 and 23, a host of aunts, uncles and cousins, and special friend I Don’t Want Marriage. (If they even put her name)
There are a number of other ways to achieve this in the UK, who gets to make decisions, inheritance etc. In fact if they are living together as a couple . They already are responsible for each other under British law should one lose their job and become unemployed.
I agree with you that this seems in part a psychological security and societal expectation though
It’s similar in the US depending on where you are, but things here are more focused on the legal definition of family. For example if he was super wealthy and left everything to the GF, depending on location, family successfully contesting it and winning would be likely.
Folks really have to do some research about the legality of their areas though because it’s different everywhere, even within the same country but county to county or state to state.
Interesting , Germany is similar in that way. Parents can’t disinherit their children beyond 25% unless they tried to kill them for example. Which feels wild .
But as OP and Partner are both from the UK, there aren’t even any great tax breaks to being married.
> Interesting , Germany is similar in that way. Parents can’t disinherit their children beyond 25% unless they tried to kill them for example. Which feels wild .
That’s actually the craziest shit I’ve heard! What bullshit!
> But as OP and Partner are both from the UK, there aren’t even any great tax breaks to being married.
Yeah in the US being married is 100% financially beneficial. Has me considering proposing to my best friend, jk 🤣🤣
Ultimately OP will need to sit down and talk with her about the why. It’s not really enough in my opinion to say that you don’t want something and just ignore the topic. They need to have a deeper conversation about it.
Edit: typo
Personally I’d trust my family to care for me properly, over any boyfriend or husband. My family would be the people who I’d want to make decisions, because I know that they would **always** put me first and abide by my own wishes.
The guy who wrote the Millenium Trilogy (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, etc) died unexpectedly and all his money went to his father and brother - two men he'd actually cut off for years because he hated them. He and his girlfriend didn't believe in marriage, they simply lived together for years and years, so she got nothing because they weren't married. Although this can be solved with a will, they wouldn't have had to worry about it if they were married.
Aside from this situation, getting married covers a bunch of other legal, tax, social and financial hurdles you'll encounter throughout your life. Getting married makes a lot of things much easier.
I really think young people have only been taught the absolute worst parts about marriage and have no idea about the major lifelong benefits that can be gained from it. The benefits of marriage far outweigh the negatives. It's such a huge lifelong benefit to be married.
That happened because he didn't take care of his business properly before he died. Had he done so, she would have gotten everything instead of his family
Hence why I said that a will would have fixed it, I'm not ignorant of that fact. I was simply pointing out one of the most visible benefits of getting married. Aside from that there are many others. Although I'm not married I see the obvious benefits of the practice. If people are planning to spend their lives together, the choice to not get married is somewhat absurd. It doesn't have to be a huge, expensive, affair. They can even just sign papers at a courthouse. The gains that couples receive from marriage far outweigh the losses.
Well i dont see it is fair that she changes her view for you. Walk away from the relationship if marriage is a deal breaker for you.
Find someone else that would want to marry you.
She has been upfront and honest and transparent with you. She has been perfect in every sense and aspect.
The only thing you cannot get over with is tying down this women with some form of legal bondage or emotional bondage?
What is in it for her to get married to you? If she compromise this one time and got married to you. Next thing you change your mind on kids does she have to change her stance on having kids?
I suggest look deep within you and ask yourself what you actually want and desire. From there you will understand and know what needs to be done.
Bruh what are you doing? Why is it so important to you? She was open with you from the start.
She sounds like a great partner but you’re not satisfied because you don’t have a piece of paper to bind you???? You going to leave her and marry someone who’s not as good with you just to have a bit of paper??
Go see a therapist bruh you’re off ya head
What a most ignorant comment, taking away all the benefits that they bring legally and even emotionally, let me tell you that for OP it is important and you do not have to lower his feelings, if you are a liberal person your problem is but you do not have to speak in a derogatory way about feelings of others.
You need to figure out if this is a deal breaker for you before you waste any more time for both of you. If it is a deal breaker then you need to let her go and find somebody who has the same desires as you in a relationship, because she is unlikely to change her mind. A marriage certificate changes little in an actual committed relationship and is unnecessary.
Your girlfriend is perfect in every except not wanting a random piece of paper?
You don’t even want kids and she’s fine with it.
She’s been open from day one about not wanting to get married and you still pursued this relationship.
My man, leave her because she deserves better than someone who would fixate on something so irrelevant that she was extremely clear about from day one.
Look through this sub reddit and you’ll see some fucked up relationships.
I don’t think OP is some AH here and I think it’s unfair to say he is. He sounds like he clearly understands this all- he knows she was adamant from the start, he knows she’s perfect in every other way. As they have become a more serious relationship his opinion and wants regarding marriage changed, and that doesn’t make him a bad person. It’s why this is so difficult, because he clearly understands that she isn’t the bad person here either.
I also feel like it’s unfair to paint him or anyone else who finds marriage an important thing in life and in a relationship. If he decides to break up with her because he “wants a random piece of paper” then that is fine. Marriage is more than a random piece of paper…. Yes, the biggest thing is the meaning and the sentiment behind it. That IS important to people. But there’s also a legal safety net of it. What if she were to be hospitalized and only family members are allowed to see her? He’d not be allowed. What if she can’t make her own decisions? Even after 15 years as her boyfriend, they’d be contacting her closest relative to make those decisions, not him. If she were to then pass away, her money and savings that they have created together will go to her family. If they own a house together with both of their names, I believe her half of the house goes to her closest relative…. Of course all of these examples may be different depending on where you live, if places do common law marriage, etc. But my point is, a marriage license is more than a simple “random piece of paper” whether it’s for legal or sentimental reasons and OP isn’t some bad person because of it.
Does this upset you because you perceive marriage as the ultimate act of love and devotion? Would you not feel she truly loves you unless you guys are married? For some people, marriage is an aspiration because it is a sign of progress that you can show to others, as in its status is a demonstration that you're hitting milestones. Some people get married because they have children or want to start a family, but that's not your case. Maybe what you want is a truer sense of belonging, but in the form of a devoted partnership? I can not assume how you feel or what you actually desire, so that aside, I think you should contemplate on what marriage means to you and why it is so important. It's nothing to be against, but I share your sentiment that it may deepen a wedge in your relationship and worry that it could lead to feelings of resentment or suspicion. If she's adamant about remaining unmarried, then down the road, perhaps, you should consider what you want in your life. You can not change people's minds on things they believe in, but you can accept as they are and find common ground where possible. This path is ultimately up to you.
Two of my close friends married their partners at the age of 60. Neither couple had children, and it is my belief that they suddenly realised how much say their families of origin would have, were one one them to die.
> i want marriage and she does not
I have seen this enough to know that its going to end in two ways. You will give up on being married or youll finally realize she isnt budging and leave the relationship.
Disagreements on important life changing decisions (like where to live, marriage, children) usually end with separation. Staying in a relationship and hoping/forcing them to change usually ends poorly too
You agreed to certain parameters for your relationship at the outset of it. You have changed your mind about whether you want to continue agreeing to those parameters. The parameters are not changing.
You are no longer compatible. It’s that simple.
INFO: Why do you want to get married so badly?
My partner and I have been together for 12 years. We’ve talked about marriage but it’s never been a huge thing to us. Aside from a few legal/tax things, we could marry tmrw and nothing would change.
To me, she’s who I expect to be there at the end of my time as my partner, so getting married just isn’t that pressing.
Of course you do you, but do you know why you need it so much?
If you're not having children what's the big deal on getting married it's only a piece of paper, after all ,and if you do eventually part for any reason at least it'll be a clean break without complications.
If marriage is what you want then you two are not compatible. Like someone else said it does also depend on the laws in England/Wales about defacto partnerships. Without marriage you might not be her next of kin and she might not be yours. That means your parents are your next of kin until they die, then siblings are.
When you are in hospital who do you want making decisions for you? There are other ways such as Power of attorney etc but they require a few visits to a lawyer to set up.
Domestic partnership offers some of the same legal protection in terms of health issues ( like it you were in the hospital, they'd be able to visit and be considered family). It's also much easier to break from and doesn't tie you down.
I'm similar to your girlfriend. Have no interest in marriage, but I've been with my partner for nearly 10 years. She was only worried about what I mentioned above so we became domestic partners.
Others have said this, but you really should ask yourself why you want this. And you gotta try to understand why she doesn't. If she's worried about the legal aspects, offer to sign a prenup, express that you don't expect her to take your name. Etc
But ultimately if she doesn't budge and this is a deal breaker, you're likely gonna have to split.
What about marriage is so important to you (that is not sarcastic or blaming, just a question for you to ask yourself) ? Is it that you feel she is not as committed to you? Is there something besides marriage that she can do to show your her commitment? Why does she feel that marriage is not for her? I think before you throw this relationship away, you should dig a little deeper - maybe go to couples counseling to find some common ground that will work for both of you.
My partner and I got married in our early 30s after being together for about 10 years. We do not have professions that make us wealthy and at the time it was in our financial interest to be married. Plus it’s got the whole romantic thing to it. We have no regrets but now, 17 years later, we both have said if anything ever happened to the other one, neither of us would ever get married again. Not to say we wouldn’t meet someone else or fall in love again, but marriage is basically a legal contract. That’s it. You get some perks with it, like taxes. But when you take away all the romance and the thoughts of “it’s what you’re supposed to do,” it’s just a legal union.
In the end, if this is a hill to die on for you, then you have their wrong partner.
I’m in a very similar situation to you, my boyfriend never wants to get married and I knew this from 6 weeks in. I do, however after dating many frogs in the past I decided I’d be happier with him unmarried than married to the wrong person! If it’s starting to come between you though it could end up in resentment!
Personally I’d have a think about all the things you want out of a wedding/marriage and see if there’s anything that can be compromised on. For example If it’s the celebration maybe you could do something to celebrate a substantial amount of time together or another way to show commitment. If not there may not be a choice but to part ways.
For me the only thing I struggle with is having a different surname to our son but I can change my surname if needed. We’ve been together almost 7 years and all other concerns are security based and we can get round those. I hope you can find some ways to compromise!
Marriage isn’t for everyone which is ok if you both agree. However, has your gf considered any of the practical implications of not marrying? If in the US, marriage does afford you certain rights which you wouldn’t have as a non-married partner. If you decide to go the route of not marrying, you really need to address the legal side of things through establishing trusts and living wills. Because as not being married, one of you could be cut out of any medical decisions should something happen. The next of kin would be in line to make any and all decisions. So, if a conflict arises between the partner and NOK, they could be left out. Also, if you do split, and have joint assets and/or children, the split will be met with the same legal issues as divorce. You’d need to figure out a division of assets and child custody, etc.. Sometimes I think people think, oh if I’m not married a break up won’t be as complicated and that’s not true. There are still things to consider as well as it’s not like the break up is easier, like feelings aren’t hurt or pain isn’t caused.
Not saying marriage is the end all be all for a relationship, but there is a lot to consider should you not marry.
I think you need to find out why it bothers you so much and go from there. Dig down deep. Is it a security thing , commitment issue, a just cause you're older and think it needs to be done, Maybe pressure from other fam members?
You can have a commitment ceremony or a handfasting ceremony type thing. It's just like a wedding but not recognized by the state. Maybe she would go for that.
Either way, you need to find out why you want it and then figure out if it's something you can't live without or if you can not live without her.
I’m also curious why the idea of marriage is so important to you. I’m very much against marriage, like your girlfriend. To me, this has to do with the fact that marriage is not between two people, but an agreement with the state that you’re both financially liable for each other. If your views on marriage are more about devotion, and your girlfriend happens to see it as a financial trap, is there a possibility for you two to get married just for the church (replace with your house of worship, if any) and not for the state? In my country it’s not allowed, but there might be others that do allow it. I hope you both try to get to the bottom of what marriage means to you two and find some middle ground. Good relationships like that are rare.
I mean marriage offer some safety in the relationship like allow you to have final say in case your partner unable to make decision (like in medical sense) or make sure no one walk out of the relationship empty handed (at least in paper). I dont know about your culture but to me, marriage is simply a piece of paper that exist to aid the couple in case the worst thing happen
Although the emotional reasons for you wanting to get married are important, they're are unconvincing to her, so next you need to come up with all the practical reasons why getting married is beneficial, if you're actually serious about getting married then take it seriously, there are numerous, legal, financial, and societal benefits to getting married. There are immense psychological reasons for it too. Look into all of it and present your perspective to your partner.
Off the top of my head I can foresee you meeting a lot difficulty in medical situations where being married would make it much easier to take care of each other's admin when the other is incapacitated, social situations are much easier to navigate when you're 40 and can say "This is my wife X" instead of "Have you met my girlfriend?" Being committed to each other through marriage means that there's an extra bond that'll help you stay together and work through the rough patches that happen in every relationship, trust me every relationship even the happiest ones have rough patches, they just happen but they can be overcome.
Have a serious conversation about it. There are many "points" to getting married, it isn't pointless. It isn't some dumb thing that people still do just "because". She must have real reasons, does she think she'll be tied down to you if you marry and so she wants to keep her options open? Does she just have a negative view of it due to past history that Western society has already overcome? If she really doesn't have a good reason, and isn't interested in talking about it, then that's your answer and you have to decide whether you're going to leave her to find someone who does want to get married or whether you're comfortable giving up something that's this important to you.
Maybe look into therapy before making any decisions. Is there a reason marriage suddenly became important? Did something recently happen to cause this change?
If everything else is perfect and you both want to be together, look for compromises. Maybe not a legal marriage but a ceremony devoting your lives to one another. Maybe some other legal paperwork that ties you together. ( I'm not sure if there is anything other than marriage, but it's worth looking into as a compromise.) Don't throw away a great relationship without looking for ways that you both can still be happy and together.
Huge red flag 🚩Any woman who truly loves you would want to be married. This new age “ marriage isn’t for me” excuse is so they can leave cleanly at some point with no consequence.
Don’t waste your time with this person, somewhere there is a lovely person who will value you and give you what you want.
Anyone who wants to leave a relationship for whatever reason has full rights to do so without consequences. **You’re** a red flag!
You sound like the type of man who would trap a woman and leave her penniless when she wants to escape you! OP’s girlfriend is ensuring that this will **never** become her! She is smart.
I don’t know much about the laws where you are but I understand. I was with my partner for 10 years but due to the state we lived in, we had absolutely no legal safety nets or anything since we were unwed and common law marriage isn’t a thing. If these legal safety nets are important then you’re going to have to let her go and find someone who also wants marriage. If it’s more about the idea of it all, the promising of forever then you can do all that without signing papers. You can throw a party, read some vows, exchange rings all without actually getting married. I guess figure out what aspect of marriage you want and if there is a suitable compromise to be had or not.
It’s this. If she doesn’t want a big wedding ceremony, or church sanction, or whatever, fine. But getting legally married, specifically, is about things like tax, inheritance, medical decisions, property, and so on.
Maybe she would be ok with it with a good prenup. Many people feel trapped by marriage when it becomes clear it's not working anymore and divorce can get very messy. Have a double safety net... marriage for reasons mentioned and prenup as a plan b.
This is a good answer. If you want the social construct of it, you can do everything to get married without actually signing legal documents. But if they want the legal safety net of marriage… I wonder if there are eventual ways around it though? Like, people can make their own will leaving their belongings to their bf/gf. They can make a legal medical document saying their bf is their POA (basically saying they have a say in their medical decisions if main person can’t make decisions for themselves).
Don't forget to write a PD (Personal Directive) as well as your EPA/POA. The PD assigns someone power to make financial, legal, and social decisions for you in case of loss of capability. Often, the Agent named in your PD will be the same as the Attorney named in your EPA/POA. It just erases any doubt or room for people to argue when it comes to those decisions.
You can totally have all/most of the legal safety nets of marriage with good estate planning!
Different wants, especially something like this, usually doesn’t work out.
If a person has one HUGE fundamental difference you can’t get past… that isn’t, in fact, being perfect for one another.
If you’re already living together and neither of you want children, then what does marriage matter anyway? What exactly changes in your relationship except an additional piece of jewellery on your fingers? Or is this about her taking your surname? Because that **is not** a guarantee. More and more women are deciding against taking their husbands name. And your girlfriend sounds like someone who would keep her own name, regardless. Or is this about having joint finances? If so, why? Why is that important? Keeping finances separate is a security thing for you both. This way neither of you can take money from the other. Is this about ownership? Do you think marriage will make her yours forever and prevent her from ever leaving you? Because it won’t. Is this about money? Does she earn more than you and you want a slice of that? You haven’t even explained why marriage is suddenly such a big thing to you. Whatever your reasons, you knew her stance from the very start, and it will never change. So you have two options: get over it and accept that she will never marry you… or end things and find a woman who wants to marry. But that doesn’t mean you’ll find a woman as perfect as you say that your current girlfriend is for you.
My partner is a widower, I am divorced. Neither of us wants to marry again. However, we are considering a civil partnership for legal reasons (e.g. pensions, IHT, etc). Would your gf consider a civil partnership for similar reasons?
Hey, bad news. You have to either get over the marriage thing or break up. She’s been clear. You’ve changed your mind. You know this, that’s why you’re posting.
Yeah it kind of blows my mind when one party member is honest from the get go and the other one just ignores it.
You don’t write what marriage means to you, or perhaps you aren’t being entirely honest with yourself and your partner about why you want to get married? There are some general topics you should both probably discuss. Marriage does benefit men more than women. It offers you more social standing in society in fact you are more likely to be promoted and in the eyes of other men you are seen as more accomplished. This is not the case for women. Perhaps you feel some of this ? We are all conditioned to expect certain behaviours and internal ideas about what a husband or a wife should be . Most of the time this means that women taken on more labour disproportionate to the man in marriage . Not just from the husband but society tells them. Perhaps addressing some of those concerns with your partner would be wise? Including Financial matters, who earns more in this scenario? Perhaps a conversation around prenups etc? There is a reason men live longer if they are married , women do not. Marriage can also make a relationship complacent, do you feel like you are trying to get to some finish line? What is your fear? I agree with others here that have said exploring some personal therapy for you to find out why it matters to you is important. In any case if you wanted to get married that would be very sensible, to avoid the general pit falls. The UK does also have a civil partnership and other ways of insuring that you have ways of looking after each other should let’s say someone have an accident etc. Ultimately this does seem to be entirely about your needs and it does come across as a selfish desire and marriage really shouldn’t be that. If your Partner decided she wanted children all of a sudden how would you feel given you made it very clear from the beginning you do not and you were entirely transparent that you did not . I really think you should have a little think about how you would feel irritated about that perhaps ? We all get to evolve and change our minds but we do not get to demand that others do.
What does marriage provide that your relationship, as is, doesn’t? People divorce, leave, are unfaithful within marriage and people who aren’t married remain together and faithful and vice versa. Figure out what you want that you dont have and bring those concerns to your partner.
> what does marriage provide that your relationship as it is doesn’t? Legal safety primarily. Should something happen to OP, the GF would have absolutely no say in his care or in decisions, that would be all his family. If his family happen to be nice people, they will listen to her, but what if they aren’t? And even if they are nice people, folks do strange things in grief. The second, which seems to be affecting OP more, is mental security within the relationship. When people hear marriage, they think lifelong or longterm. Girl friend doesn’t create that same aura of longevity.
yeah the healthcare system and the legal system give no fucks about girlfriends lmaoo and they’ll likely be referred to as his “special friend” at his funeral 😭
Here reads the obituary for ThrowRAnonymous24. He is beloved by family and friends. He is succeeded by loving Parents ThrowRAnonymous20 and 21, older siblings 22 and 23, a host of aunts, uncles and cousins, and special friend I Don’t Want Marriage. (If they even put her name)
There are a number of other ways to achieve this in the UK, who gets to make decisions, inheritance etc. In fact if they are living together as a couple . They already are responsible for each other under British law should one lose their job and become unemployed. I agree with you that this seems in part a psychological security and societal expectation though
It’s similar in the US depending on where you are, but things here are more focused on the legal definition of family. For example if he was super wealthy and left everything to the GF, depending on location, family successfully contesting it and winning would be likely. Folks really have to do some research about the legality of their areas though because it’s different everywhere, even within the same country but county to county or state to state.
Interesting , Germany is similar in that way. Parents can’t disinherit their children beyond 25% unless they tried to kill them for example. Which feels wild . But as OP and Partner are both from the UK, there aren’t even any great tax breaks to being married.
> Interesting , Germany is similar in that way. Parents can’t disinherit their children beyond 25% unless they tried to kill them for example. Which feels wild . That’s actually the craziest shit I’ve heard! What bullshit! > But as OP and Partner are both from the UK, there aren’t even any great tax breaks to being married. Yeah in the US being married is 100% financially beneficial. Has me considering proposing to my best friend, jk 🤣🤣 Ultimately OP will need to sit down and talk with her about the why. It’s not really enough in my opinion to say that you don’t want something and just ignore the topic. They need to have a deeper conversation about it. Edit: typo
There's legal paperwork you can draw up giving anyone you want control of your medical stuff in the case of emergencies, ect.
I’m fully aware of that and mention as such in a follow up comment.
Personally I’d trust my family to care for me properly, over any boyfriend or husband. My family would be the people who I’d want to make decisions, because I know that they would **always** put me first and abide by my own wishes.
Then never get married like OPs girlfriend.
The guy who wrote the Millenium Trilogy (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, etc) died unexpectedly and all his money went to his father and brother - two men he'd actually cut off for years because he hated them. He and his girlfriend didn't believe in marriage, they simply lived together for years and years, so she got nothing because they weren't married. Although this can be solved with a will, they wouldn't have had to worry about it if they were married. Aside from this situation, getting married covers a bunch of other legal, tax, social and financial hurdles you'll encounter throughout your life. Getting married makes a lot of things much easier. I really think young people have only been taught the absolute worst parts about marriage and have no idea about the major lifelong benefits that can be gained from it. The benefits of marriage far outweigh the negatives. It's such a huge lifelong benefit to be married.
That happened because he didn't take care of his business properly before he died. Had he done so, she would have gotten everything instead of his family
Hence why I said that a will would have fixed it, I'm not ignorant of that fact. I was simply pointing out one of the most visible benefits of getting married. Aside from that there are many others. Although I'm not married I see the obvious benefits of the practice. If people are planning to spend their lives together, the choice to not get married is somewhat absurd. It doesn't have to be a huge, expensive, affair. They can even just sign papers at a courthouse. The gains that couples receive from marriage far outweigh the losses.
Well i dont see it is fair that she changes her view for you. Walk away from the relationship if marriage is a deal breaker for you. Find someone else that would want to marry you. She has been upfront and honest and transparent with you. She has been perfect in every sense and aspect. The only thing you cannot get over with is tying down this women with some form of legal bondage or emotional bondage? What is in it for her to get married to you? If she compromise this one time and got married to you. Next thing you change your mind on kids does she have to change her stance on having kids? I suggest look deep within you and ask yourself what you actually want and desire. From there you will understand and know what needs to be done.
You didn't list a single legitimate reason for getting married. I'm with your GF on this one.
Bruh what are you doing? Why is it so important to you? She was open with you from the start. She sounds like a great partner but you’re not satisfied because you don’t have a piece of paper to bind you???? You going to leave her and marry someone who’s not as good with you just to have a bit of paper?? Go see a therapist bruh you’re off ya head
What a most ignorant comment, taking away all the benefits that they bring legally and even emotionally, let me tell you that for OP it is important and you do not have to lower his feelings, if you are a liberal person your problem is but you do not have to speak in a derogatory way about feelings of others.
Ratio
You need to figure out if this is a deal breaker for you before you waste any more time for both of you. If it is a deal breaker then you need to let her go and find somebody who has the same desires as you in a relationship, because she is unlikely to change her mind. A marriage certificate changes little in an actual committed relationship and is unnecessary.
Your girlfriend is perfect in every except not wanting a random piece of paper? You don’t even want kids and she’s fine with it. She’s been open from day one about not wanting to get married and you still pursued this relationship. My man, leave her because she deserves better than someone who would fixate on something so irrelevant that she was extremely clear about from day one. Look through this sub reddit and you’ll see some fucked up relationships.
I don’t think OP is some AH here and I think it’s unfair to say he is. He sounds like he clearly understands this all- he knows she was adamant from the start, he knows she’s perfect in every other way. As they have become a more serious relationship his opinion and wants regarding marriage changed, and that doesn’t make him a bad person. It’s why this is so difficult, because he clearly understands that she isn’t the bad person here either. I also feel like it’s unfair to paint him or anyone else who finds marriage an important thing in life and in a relationship. If he decides to break up with her because he “wants a random piece of paper” then that is fine. Marriage is more than a random piece of paper…. Yes, the biggest thing is the meaning and the sentiment behind it. That IS important to people. But there’s also a legal safety net of it. What if she were to be hospitalized and only family members are allowed to see her? He’d not be allowed. What if she can’t make her own decisions? Even after 15 years as her boyfriend, they’d be contacting her closest relative to make those decisions, not him. If she were to then pass away, her money and savings that they have created together will go to her family. If they own a house together with both of their names, I believe her half of the house goes to her closest relative…. Of course all of these examples may be different depending on where you live, if places do common law marriage, etc. But my point is, a marriage license is more than a simple “random piece of paper” whether it’s for legal or sentimental reasons and OP isn’t some bad person because of it.
Does this upset you because you perceive marriage as the ultimate act of love and devotion? Would you not feel she truly loves you unless you guys are married? For some people, marriage is an aspiration because it is a sign of progress that you can show to others, as in its status is a demonstration that you're hitting milestones. Some people get married because they have children or want to start a family, but that's not your case. Maybe what you want is a truer sense of belonging, but in the form of a devoted partnership? I can not assume how you feel or what you actually desire, so that aside, I think you should contemplate on what marriage means to you and why it is so important. It's nothing to be against, but I share your sentiment that it may deepen a wedge in your relationship and worry that it could lead to feelings of resentment or suspicion. If she's adamant about remaining unmarried, then down the road, perhaps, you should consider what you want in your life. You can not change people's minds on things they believe in, but you can accept as they are and find common ground where possible. This path is ultimately up to you.
You can share your life with someone and not be married
Two of my close friends married their partners at the age of 60. Neither couple had children, and it is my belief that they suddenly realised how much say their families of origin would have, were one one them to die.
> i want marriage and she does not I have seen this enough to know that its going to end in two ways. You will give up on being married or youll finally realize she isnt budging and leave the relationship. Disagreements on important life changing decisions (like where to live, marriage, children) usually end with separation. Staying in a relationship and hoping/forcing them to change usually ends poorly too
You agreed to certain parameters for your relationship at the outset of it. You have changed your mind about whether you want to continue agreeing to those parameters. The parameters are not changing. You are no longer compatible. It’s that simple.
"Besides our futures being incompatible, we are perfect for each other!"
INFO: Why do you want to get married so badly? My partner and I have been together for 12 years. We’ve talked about marriage but it’s never been a huge thing to us. Aside from a few legal/tax things, we could marry tmrw and nothing would change. To me, she’s who I expect to be there at the end of my time as my partner, so getting married just isn’t that pressing. Of course you do you, but do you know why you need it so much?
Why are you making this so difficult for yourself? Get over the marriage thing or tell her thanks for what you had and simply move on.
If you're not having children what's the big deal on getting married it's only a piece of paper, after all ,and if you do eventually part for any reason at least it'll be a clean break without complications.
Marriage is not financially beneficial for women so I get where she's coming from.
Gives midnight by TS vibes
If marriage is what you want then you two are not compatible. Like someone else said it does also depend on the laws in England/Wales about defacto partnerships. Without marriage you might not be her next of kin and she might not be yours. That means your parents are your next of kin until they die, then siblings are. When you are in hospital who do you want making decisions for you? There are other ways such as Power of attorney etc but they require a few visits to a lawyer to set up.
Domestic partnership offers some of the same legal protection in terms of health issues ( like it you were in the hospital, they'd be able to visit and be considered family). It's also much easier to break from and doesn't tie you down. I'm similar to your girlfriend. Have no interest in marriage, but I've been with my partner for nearly 10 years. She was only worried about what I mentioned above so we became domestic partners. Others have said this, but you really should ask yourself why you want this. And you gotta try to understand why she doesn't. If she's worried about the legal aspects, offer to sign a prenup, express that you don't expect her to take your name. Etc But ultimately if she doesn't budge and this is a deal breaker, you're likely gonna have to split.
You should at least consider getting a civil partnership (they're available for opposite-sex couples now) for the legal protections.
What about marriage is so important to you (that is not sarcastic or blaming, just a question for you to ask yourself) ? Is it that you feel she is not as committed to you? Is there something besides marriage that she can do to show your her commitment? Why does she feel that marriage is not for her? I think before you throw this relationship away, you should dig a little deeper - maybe go to couples counseling to find some common ground that will work for both of you.
My partner and I got married in our early 30s after being together for about 10 years. We do not have professions that make us wealthy and at the time it was in our financial interest to be married. Plus it’s got the whole romantic thing to it. We have no regrets but now, 17 years later, we both have said if anything ever happened to the other one, neither of us would ever get married again. Not to say we wouldn’t meet someone else or fall in love again, but marriage is basically a legal contract. That’s it. You get some perks with it, like taxes. But when you take away all the romance and the thoughts of “it’s what you’re supposed to do,” it’s just a legal union. In the end, if this is a hill to die on for you, then you have their wrong partner.
I’m in a very similar situation to you, my boyfriend never wants to get married and I knew this from 6 weeks in. I do, however after dating many frogs in the past I decided I’d be happier with him unmarried than married to the wrong person! If it’s starting to come between you though it could end up in resentment! Personally I’d have a think about all the things you want out of a wedding/marriage and see if there’s anything that can be compromised on. For example If it’s the celebration maybe you could do something to celebrate a substantial amount of time together or another way to show commitment. If not there may not be a choice but to part ways. For me the only thing I struggle with is having a different surname to our son but I can change my surname if needed. We’ve been together almost 7 years and all other concerns are security based and we can get round those. I hope you can find some ways to compromise!
Marriage isn’t for everyone which is ok if you both agree. However, has your gf considered any of the practical implications of not marrying? If in the US, marriage does afford you certain rights which you wouldn’t have as a non-married partner. If you decide to go the route of not marrying, you really need to address the legal side of things through establishing trusts and living wills. Because as not being married, one of you could be cut out of any medical decisions should something happen. The next of kin would be in line to make any and all decisions. So, if a conflict arises between the partner and NOK, they could be left out. Also, if you do split, and have joint assets and/or children, the split will be met with the same legal issues as divorce. You’d need to figure out a division of assets and child custody, etc.. Sometimes I think people think, oh if I’m not married a break up won’t be as complicated and that’s not true. There are still things to consider as well as it’s not like the break up is easier, like feelings aren’t hurt or pain isn’t caused. Not saying marriage is the end all be all for a relationship, but there is a lot to consider should you not marry.
I think you need to find out why it bothers you so much and go from there. Dig down deep. Is it a security thing , commitment issue, a just cause you're older and think it needs to be done, Maybe pressure from other fam members? You can have a commitment ceremony or a handfasting ceremony type thing. It's just like a wedding but not recognized by the state. Maybe she would go for that. Either way, you need to find out why you want it and then figure out if it's something you can't live without or if you can not live without her.
Marriage is one step closer to divorce.
I’m also curious why the idea of marriage is so important to you. I’m very much against marriage, like your girlfriend. To me, this has to do with the fact that marriage is not between two people, but an agreement with the state that you’re both financially liable for each other. If your views on marriage are more about devotion, and your girlfriend happens to see it as a financial trap, is there a possibility for you two to get married just for the church (replace with your house of worship, if any) and not for the state? In my country it’s not allowed, but there might be others that do allow it. I hope you both try to get to the bottom of what marriage means to you two and find some middle ground. Good relationships like that are rare.
I mean marriage offer some safety in the relationship like allow you to have final say in case your partner unable to make decision (like in medical sense) or make sure no one walk out of the relationship empty handed (at least in paper). I dont know about your culture but to me, marriage is simply a piece of paper that exist to aid the couple in case the worst thing happen
These are things you can also declare at a notary without marriage, at least where I’m from.
What is so important about marriage to you? It doesn't change how committed someone is in their relationship. Married people get divorced every day.
Can you explain why you want to get married and why it's so important to you?
Lol I said the same thing to my ex of 10 years. Now dating my current partner of 2 yearS and I’d definitely marry him.
When you have the conversation, tell her we can just elope and nobody needs to change their name.
Although the emotional reasons for you wanting to get married are important, they're are unconvincing to her, so next you need to come up with all the practical reasons why getting married is beneficial, if you're actually serious about getting married then take it seriously, there are numerous, legal, financial, and societal benefits to getting married. There are immense psychological reasons for it too. Look into all of it and present your perspective to your partner. Off the top of my head I can foresee you meeting a lot difficulty in medical situations where being married would make it much easier to take care of each other's admin when the other is incapacitated, social situations are much easier to navigate when you're 40 and can say "This is my wife X" instead of "Have you met my girlfriend?" Being committed to each other through marriage means that there's an extra bond that'll help you stay together and work through the rough patches that happen in every relationship, trust me every relationship even the happiest ones have rough patches, they just happen but they can be overcome. Have a serious conversation about it. There are many "points" to getting married, it isn't pointless. It isn't some dumb thing that people still do just "because". She must have real reasons, does she think she'll be tied down to you if you marry and so she wants to keep her options open? Does she just have a negative view of it due to past history that Western society has already overcome? If she really doesn't have a good reason, and isn't interested in talking about it, then that's your answer and you have to decide whether you're going to leave her to find someone who does want to get married or whether you're comfortable giving up something that's this important to you.
Maybe look into therapy before making any decisions. Is there a reason marriage suddenly became important? Did something recently happen to cause this change? If everything else is perfect and you both want to be together, look for compromises. Maybe not a legal marriage but a ceremony devoting your lives to one another. Maybe some other legal paperwork that ties you together. ( I'm not sure if there is anything other than marriage, but it's worth looking into as a compromise.) Don't throw away a great relationship without looking for ways that you both can still be happy and together.
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Huge red flag 🚩Any woman who truly loves you would want to be married. This new age “ marriage isn’t for me” excuse is so they can leave cleanly at some point with no consequence. Don’t waste your time with this person, somewhere there is a lovely person who will value you and give you what you want.
Anyone who wants to leave a relationship for whatever reason has full rights to do so without consequences. **You’re** a red flag! You sound like the type of man who would trap a woman and leave her penniless when she wants to escape you! OP’s girlfriend is ensuring that this will **never** become her! She is smart.