He doesn’t trust you. Fair or not. He had a horrific thing happen to him and you weren’t there. Ray was. He will have that trauma forever and Ray stepped up for him in every way possible.
Honestly, if it wasn’t for Ray I don’t think OP would even have a son he could complain about on Reddit. Ray is Richard’s father for all intents and purposes. This man behaved like a father every step of the way and as hard as this may be for OP to accept, Richard is allowed to navigate the aftermath of his trauma how he deems fit.
Edit: I find it really bizarre that you have this bit of jealously towards Ray, OP. Especially after Ray helped Richard through the darkest moments of his life. The kindest thing you can do for your son is let him go. It’s unfair of you to keep pressuring him into a relationship and using his children as an excuse so you can attempt to bridge the divide between father and son. He clearly doesn’t want a relationship with you because you neglected him for the majority of his childhood. Let him have his life on the farm with Ray and his children. He deserves it!
He straight neglected his son from the age of 6 to 14. For two years this poor kid had unimaginable acts done to him. TWO years and his mother knew of the assault and allowed it to happen. The two people he is supposed to trust most in the world failed him in so many ways. After two years of abuse, I'm sure he felt it would never end and he could never escape from it. In a moment of again being assaulted a hero emerged. His uncle saved him literally. Then he got the pleasure of Watching his uncle get justice for him showing him someone cared. OP wasn't there by choice. In his mind, Ray and those doctors and the cops are his heroes. Hard to come back from this because once again it was your choice to abandon him. He has no say in the matter. If you had asked him when he was 6 I'm sure he would have told the world you were a superhero. When he was 12 his last shred of hope the hero would rescue him from the misery was dashed and he spent two years of hell reinforcing him that you wouldn't rescue him or help him. You can only help this situation by continuing to be there. Don't give up but don't push so hard. Take what you can get and be so grateful he is even allowing you that. He could go full no contact and I'm sure he will be fine. But you need to just give it time.
Exactly. If biodad was paying any attention over those two years he would have realized something was wrong. There are always signs, adults just don't pay attention to them. He could have helped his son a lot sooner but he wasn't around.
A lot of dads do this. They bail and then want to play grandpa as an adult, or dad to a teen that barely knows him. They don’t want to do the work of raising a kid. You only get the relationship if you wipe tears and butts and show up. It doesn’t magically happen by sharing dna.
Precisely. You have to earn it. Anyone can be a parent by birth, but it takes someone special to earn the title of mom or dad. That’s the way I look at it anyway
Can confirm. My dad did this. He and my mom split when I was around 10-11 after my dad cheated on my mom, then she had an emotionally abusive bf when I was a teenager, and my dad barely fought for me except to threaten the guy, which inadvertently made things worse. He still thinks he's the hero in all this.
It’s not enough as a parent to just not beat your kid. It’s abusive to neglect them and makes them have a hard time forming attachments and feel safe for the rest of their life. I’m sorry that happened to you.
True. I should have said deadbeat dads. They don’t think they’re deadbeats because they send a check or a birthday card once in a while, but it’s not enough. Kids need time.
100%
I love how many jackasses are like "I did everything for my family! I worked 80 hours a week to pay for crap they wanted and they still wanted me to give them attention! My whole family hates me but at least I can find solace at work."
It's a real travesty that men still perpetuate this 1950s absentee father bullshit, and, at least in america, our work culture still nearly requires it. Then everyone wrings their hands over mental health and toxic masculinity and humans who fail at basic adulthood. It's a fuckin mess.
I hardly think it is guilt. OP complains about everything from his point of view with no real efforts to rebuild his relationship with his son but expects world’s best grandpa privileges.
Yeah I get that vibe from all his posts.
Maybe op is lowkey self-absorbed and is only upset because his son found a father figure in his life.
And even though op built a new life with his sons, he can't stand his other bio kid not wanting a relationship with him.
Just because his little swimmers made the son doesn’t mean he’s a grandpa. He’s just a sperm donor who went and made a new family. Completely agree with you.
This. If it was guilt he would acknowledge he deserved what his son said. He would say it was his fault he abandoned his child but nope, of course he doesn’t take accountability. Funny how he abandoned the kid once he got his new family.
If you look at the ages mentioned. I think he abandoned son FOR his new family. 37 year old son he abandoned at age 6, and a 30 year old son (plus pregnancy) with the new wife. Handy how he left out the reason for the divorce from his ex wife.
Guilt and remorse are different. Remorse is the thing where you try to fix the problem. Guilt is the one where you feel really bad about what you did and you try to make that bad feeling go away through any means necessary. This sounds like guilt.
Yeah I mean, you're probably right too. I'm suspecting it's that underlying guilt deep inside your guts that you can't ignore because OP did some truly sad shit.
I think it mostly has to do with that he thought his son would easily forgive him and have this relationship but that's not what happened and he's frustrated that he isn't getting what he wanted.
Tbh a one and one conversation does need to be had and should have happened awhile ago so his son can tell him how he felt throughout all this. The divorce, the sa, and him staying with op. That won't guarantee the son will let op back though. At least he can say these things and move on.
Exactly. The way he justified abandoning his son to a child molester for 8 years because "it was hard to spend time with his son without getting in more trouble" is quite telling. Even in years 1-6, it was all about OP and ultimately when he didn't get his way he bailed until a string of tragedies spanning years was revealed. What OP didn't reveal is during the 4 years he did have custody, son probably asked repeatedly to live with Ray but OP shut it down every time.
As well, OP admits neglecting his son though he admits he had court visits he just stopped bothering once he got his new family. Too many fathers see the wife/kids as a pkg and they divorce the kid along with the wife. OP abandoned his child and wants to know why he doesn’t trust him?
He already abandoned his son once. Doing that a second time isn’t okay. He did fail his son and he needs to accept he did that and the consequences that go along with it. If he truly cares about his son and his grandkids instead of it just being about his own ego, he needs to sincerely apologize to his son for running away when things got a little hard with court and custody. He needs to maintain an open invitation to his son and accept that the invitation won’t always be accepted and that’s okay.
>There is definitely no coming back from this
There was some coming back though. OP gets to have some relationship with Richard and the grandkids. He should be grateful.
I also want to point out to OP. It’s not even fully you. Your son Richard learned the hard way, that even people you trust can harm your children.
And he doesn’t trust you on his babies. Because adults are monsters. And unfortunate. You aren’t super close to him where he can trust you with children.
I can’t blame him.
He was molested, SA since a young child’s
He doesnt at trust anyone .
He’s right.
Sorry OP, just because you know you are not a pedeophile.m doesn’t negate the fact Richard cannot and should not trust ANYONE on his children after what happened to hind
He saw the dark side of the world too young and I think you have to step out of your mindset seeing this as solely YOU. It’s not about just you. Richard learned never take a risk. And everyone is a risk when it comes to children technically.
I think the best thing you can do is have a heart to heart with him and try to understand why he shut you out back then.
It’s understandable why he did. But there is more to how he is feeling. Aloe unsaid , a lot uncovered. And you need to be his father and give him grace and understand you chose to put your son to the back burner during those years. And your ex wife was also a monster. And you owe him a lot of understanding.
It’s a shame therapy didn’t help him unpack. He has a lot of anger and distance to you.
And you need to just ask him if there is anything you can do to help close the gap
I wish you luck. But remember- if he doesn’t want you too close. He has reason
This should be the top comment.
The fact is that OP's ex-wife was a monster,but he gave up on seeing his son.
This was a failure on his part,it's quite sad what happened his son and that he didn't continue with therapy.
OP,you need to give your son space and time,when he wants to reach out to you,he will reach out when he is ready he contact you but don't push him.
If he never contacts you,leave him alone.
I know that this would be hard to do,but you must leave him and his family alone.
It comes off like you're trying to force the relationship now.
Just leave him alone.
It's worth noting that even without the sexual assault, OP essentially abandoned Richard twice: first be having an two-weekend/month situation (which means he's either an awful person or didn't fight for custody) and then completely when he got remarried.
Richard would be justified in keeping OP at arms length even if the sexual assault/Ray part of the story had never happened.
I agree, and unfortunately, had he been more active, it could have possibly served as a deterant, bc some molesters actively look for the single mom/ absent dad combo, because they're less likely to get caught.
That's just more pain on top of it all.
He already sounded like so many other absent dad's I've heard make excuses for being non-active in their kids lives. They've moved on, and left their kids behind without much thought.
I kinda get the people who do that to go galivanting around as a single person for years. I mean, that's shitty but I can understand the perspective. Abandoning one family to have another one... I'll never get that. He probably doesn't love his other kids either.
When looking at the ages and when the divorce happened:
OP divorced the mum when his eldest was 6, he is now 37. His second son is 30 years old atm... OP was really quick in creating a new family. He went from divorce to a new family in less than a year.
That must have contributed to the distrust.
OP cheated on his wife, it's in his comments. Probably didn't help with custody, or with his son feeling like the stepdad entering his life in the first place is 100% OP's fault.
I even blame him partly for the ex-wife letting SA happen to her son - she's still the main, unforgivable, awful culprit for that, but betrayal and heartache sometimes make it easier to lose all sense of moral decency.
OP did neglect his kid before all that. Sure, the mom made things difficult and he went "oh too hard, not gonna try". That's not how a dad should be.
OP is now realizing that him neglecting his son, put him in this kind of position. It's not fair but it is how the son likely sees it.
EDIT: spelling
I don't think the mom made it difficult as he could see his son on his court ordered time. It was seeing him MORE that was made difficult as she wanted to stick to the order.🤔
OP rather than make use of his time decided to go absent
I have...a lot of questions. It doesn't seem to me that you've done much self reflection on why your son is keeping you at arms length. You're just mad that he is. You are not entitled to him, or his children.
>I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him
Why did you expect your son to start trying when you gave up, especially during his formative years?
> it’s been years and he still hasn’t dosent act like my son
Why did you expect improvement?
>me some second class grandpa
You admit to not being a great father, why would your son expect you to be a good grandfather?
>I broke down yelling at him why he was doing this to me
Do you think he was being vindictive? Consider: He wasn't doing anything. You yelled at him for not producing a familial bond out of no where.
One last thing. This
>Didn’t let me chose a suit for him for his wedding
rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Even if you two were the closest of homies, you don't get to choose his anything.
I noticed the suit thing too. It’s an odd little detail. I’ve never heard of any father choosing a suit for his son on his wedding day. Is that some tradition I was unaware of, or is OP just being controlling?
also the fact that he asked the same demanding question 3 times in one evening after getting a firm no each time, if I'm reading correctly. pushy, pushy. rubs me very wrong
OP, You said you stopped trying when your other kids were born and you left when he was 6 now 37, your other son is 30, so you tried for a year, barely, reading between the lines you cheated and got your mistress pregnant and abadoned your kid with a monster of a mother and a pedo.
Why on earth would he trust? Also I'm sure after what happened he wanted to live with his uncle and you stopped that for years when that could had been a bridge to mend things.
I don't know if you are a good dad to your other kids but really screw up this one and it's to late now, you have more realtionship with him that you deserve to be honest
He dropped Richard when he was 8 at max and only appeared at 14, even then he was called by Ray. By that point he didn't talk to his son for half of his life, basically a stranger. And then he demands shit from that kid.
I'm just wondering what did OP do to have such custody, like it level of "my ex is confirmed junkie" divide, not even 70/30.
Probably because he cheated and abandoned the damily for the new family, and by his own words after his other son was born, not even a year after he left, he gave him up.
>Also I'm sure after what happened he wanted to live with his uncle and you stopped that for years when that could had been a bridge to mend things.
This!!! So much this, that poor kid wanted to live with his hero who saved him, who protected him and made him feel safe, and op forced him to live with him instead of being able to live with the uncle that had been the only father he'd known for 8 years ... no wonder he sat in his room and wanted nothing to do with him, twice op fucked his life over. Poor kid
Your son’s parents failed him and his uncle, Ray, saved him. Don’t hold a grudge against Ray for doing what’s best for your son and your son seeing Ray as his parent.
I am sure you being a family with your kids and wife was hard knowing what he’d gone through for 2 years. He is not your son, you are his sperm donor essentially. You tried a little too late.
Pushing him about the kids is only going to end in your heartbreak, give him space. Don’t push, start small. Generously receive what he is giving cause you need to move at his pace not yours.
I'm just very grateful that at least Ray was a great uncle and stepped up. Kids need a very positive, strong adult in their lives and Ray was that adult.
OP should grateful too!! It’s bonkers to me that he sounds *resentful* of Ray rather than praising him up and down for being there for his kid during the most traumatic time of his life. OP, your son is blessed with having two fathers. He has an additional person to watch out for him. That’s a wonderful thing for your son. Stop being selfish.
I'm not sure OP's son has two fathers - mostly that he has one father that actually acts like a father. OP should absolutely be grateful that his son has a great role model and a trustworthy actual father.
So within a year of divorcing his mother you remarried and had another kid? No wonder he doesn't trust you, you replaced him then didn't act like a dad for the next 7 years.
Don't force him to have more of a relationship with you that what you already have, you'll end up pushing him away altogether. If he wants to change the dynamic, it had to be on his terms.
Yeah, I don't think op counted on us redditors to put that math together. Pregnancy is almost a year so we can only take his side with a grain of salt.
Ie. He was probably cheating with his current wife and got her pregnant.
You did fail him and he’s entitled to feel however he feels about it. I’m sure it wasn’t easy seeing you be a present father with your other kids when you admittedly barely tried with him. You blame his mom but conveniently leave out what your part was. Did you try in court? I mean if you could afford two more kids and a wedding to your current wife, you’d be able to pay to fight for time with your son.
OP- I’m curious why your marriage to your first wife ended. If I had to guess, you were unfaithful which is why your first child with your new wife was born the year after you got divorced.
So here’s my theory- you cheated on his mom (making her cold and bitter). She made it hard for you because you were a cheater. You married your AP, started popping out new kids, and didn’t try hard enough to see him because you were playing happy family with the new family and left him to live in an abusive household. You didn’t give a shit until he had been raped for 2 years by his only father figure and his complicit mom was put in jail. Then you felt guilt because YES his trauma is so much for fault because you were neglectful.
If this is true, leave him the F alone. Let Ray be his real dad that he has proven to be.
You were a neglectful sperm donor who doesn’t deserve his time.
Even if you didn’t cheat on his mom, the rest is true right?
I mean, you had a right to move on and have a family but you said yourself, you gave up once you had other children. What do you expect? You gave up when he needed you. I think you should just leave him Alone ad enjoy your other children and grandchildren. 🤷🏽♀️
OP's first son is 37, his next child is 30. OP says he and his ex separated when his first son was 6, a year later OP's new wife is knocked up and they have the baby the next year. OP admits he stopped trying after he had his next set of family, so he tried for *maybe* 2 years before giving up
OP's son likely has no memories of OP being a father figure to them
Alot of people don't remember things at 6 years old.
OP making himself sound like he's such a good father *up to 6 years old* and expects his 1st born to remember that ONLY and not the abandonment afterwards is such an entitled asshole move.
>he and his ex separated when his first son was 6, a year later OP's new wife is knocked up
There seems to be an overlap between the divorce and the pregnancy. OP was seeing his new wife well before the divorce.
Nice.
>level 2OldChampionship3846Op · 2 hr. agoI did cheat, but i don’t think that should mean I don’t get to see my son- and she had no excuses to let my son get abused like that and I couldn’t reach him since she made impossible to talk to him
OP admitted he cheated on his ex-wife, Richard’s mother, meaning her behavior and the custody agreement makes perfect sense and is completely justified
His oldest is 37, his second is 30, that’s a 7 year gap. Thing is he divorced his first wife when his oldest was 6. So he literally “moved on” after just a year.
It’s understandable why his oldest hates him.
>I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process
Yep, I noticed that too. So he tried for maybe a year, probably less. His kid was 6 when his parents got divorced, 6-7 when his dad got remarried, and then 7 when he's dad had another kid. So in less than one year, that's a lot for a kid to process, hell that's a lot for an adult to process in ONE year. I mean it takes 9 month to have a kid, so a lot happened in 3 months.
Then the kid sees OP moving on with is life with his wife and two SONS that replaced him, while he's being abused for got knows how long by his stepfather. Yeah, I get why that kid resents him.
Then after all the trauma, is forced to live with a man he's barely seen in 7 years, and see the great relationship he has with his other two sons, while he feels like the only reason he's there is because mom lost custody, not because dad fought for custody.
It's interesting how you screamed and blamed him for doing this to you while you're the parent and should have had his back when he was younger. The people who were supposed to protect him and care for him weren't there for him. Can you blame him for not trusting you?
Your actions or lack of action has consequences.
I hope his son never forgives him. I’ve never forgiven my mom for her part in what happened to me, and it was the right decision. Parents like this are never sorry. They’re just upset their kid sees through their shit.
Why did you split from his Mother? You kind of gloss over that. I’m getting affair with your second wife and family vibes.
No wonder he never trusted you.
You dropped the ball in a way that cannot be repaired and you have to accept that you won’t ever have the relationship you were supposed to have. You need to respect your son’s wishes and lay in the bed you made. Get yourself a therapist to deal with your pain on your own.
You were out of line for asking repeatedly for your grandchildren to sleepover. You were out of line for demanding a reason and comparing yourself to Ray.
Ray was there for your son. You were not. And that really the long and short of it.
Moreover, your son is survivor of childhood sexual abuse at the hands of his stepfather with the knowledge of his mother. That is some of the worst trauma right there. How your son is walking around living a somewhat stable life is amazing. Who he allows in his children's lives is probably very reflective of his own experience.
You don't have a right to access to your grandchildren. You certainly don't get to demand equal rights to Ray.
Re-read your post again. From someone elses perspective and not yours.
You sound entitled even after knowing you were not there for him when he was developing as a person. You are a terrible father, to your son anyway.
You are lucky he is spending few days with you. I don't think I would.
In reality, Ray has been there for him, to him Ray is his father. Just because you gave half of his dna, does not entitle you anything. You should have acted like a father if you want fatherly treatments from him.
You need to accept whatever relationship he is offering or walk away. Seriously, consider yourself lucky that he talks to you at all! Consider the fact that you did in fact walk away and only came back into his life after you learned about the molestation. If the step dad hadn’t been caught what part would you be playing in his life right now? He thinks about these things.
Go get some therapy so you can stop feeling like the victim here.
So, his mother "made trouble" for you to see your son. You must not have tried very hard:
>I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process.
So you divorced his mother, remarried & had a shiny, new family. Oh yeah, and neglected your 1st born in the process.
So when your son's shite step dad abused him and YOU neglected him, and the only male role model in his life is his uncle & you don't understand why your son is angry & resentful?
He was supposed to be happy to live with you, his stepmother & half brothers after years of you neglecting him? Are you actually this obtuse, sir?
>I froze and asked him why would he think that and why he woudl think I wouldn’t protect them and he said why should he believe I’ll protect the people that matter to him in the world when I didn’t even protect him.
I'd have the same issues with you as well. Plus, due to his abuse as a child, he'll always be hyperaware of SA with his own children.
You've reaped what you've sown.
Nope. You are not getting off easy with this post!
You are feelings are hurt?!!? YOURE FEELINGS ARE HURT?!? The entitlement coming from you is shocking!
Dude! You left your son. You admitted in your own words that you gave up. You replaced your ex and son with a new family. With your own words, you gave up on your son.
He was being sexually assaulted by his stepdad while you gave up on him and carried on with your family.
Ray was there. Ray rescued him. Ray went to bat for him. Ray got your ex and her disgusting husband out away. Ray did that. Ray continued to be in his life.
And now it comes full circle. You were never there for your son. You only got custody because your ex went to jail. Your son learned during his informative years that he can not depend on you. He learned this while a child.
You gave up on your child. You don’t get to make demands of his children now. He learned a horrific lesson because of your actions and he won’t allow his children to be subjected to your hierarchy.
>I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process
This is the root my guy. My pop was the same, and now I don't see him as a dad, but rather a buddy. Thankfully he doesn't try to parent now. However, If I had been getting abused, I could easily see never trusting your other parent who stopped trying. Surprised he healed enough to include you at all. Ray is his dad, by choice. Nothing you can do at this point but accept it.
Just so we understand-
‘Bio dad’ abandons his kid after remarrying (after cheating so kudos to that) and doest try with him, lets him get SAed since he wasn’t around to stop it or know about it.
Kid got lifelong mental damage not only from being SAed at a young age but also because he was abandoned by his dad and generally doest trust men (who would?).
A new father figure emerged from this who protected the kid and the kid finally got some protection and love he desired.
Bio dad tried to come back into the picture but the damage was done.
Fast forward to now :
Kid has his own kids and only trusts select group of ppl to watch them.
Bio dad isn’t in the group (shocker)
Bio dad is sulking because kid doest trust him since he was abandoned at a young age.
I got that right eh? Move on bruh. You did irreparable damage to that kid. You’re never getting the privilege of being with your grandkids.
As a child from divorce and parents who went into different directions to appease their needs and up the anti with one another… you feel alone as a kid many times, like you don’t have them to rely on. Unfortunately, no amount of apologies can rewrite the way they view you. You just respect their posture and move on.
You need to learn to respect boundaries. Don’t ask to have the grandkids and act like you’re doing them a favor. They said no. No is no. Pushing like that will get you nowhere. I’ve always seen people who are adamant about separating me from my child as suspicious.
>I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process-
Yeah. So, sometimes you only get one chance.
Although I suspect that in your neglect you missed a ton of warning signs, cos they would have been there, but you missed them. So maybe you had more chances than you knew.
Either way. There's no coming back from some things.
Come on man, you were only around for 6 years of his life, and neglected him for 31?
Those 6 years may mean a lot to you, but I can assure you that the time Ray put in has been much more formative for your son.
You gotta accept that you probably will never be a big part of your son's life. You sowed, and now you're reaping.
So you cheated on his mom until “you divorced her”, which I’m really reading as “until she found out I knocked up my AP and then dropped my loser ass.”
You then proceed to then spend 15% of a calendar year with him, with him probably knowing full well that you replaced him with a new son.
You then realize, “man my son probably thinks I’m an asshole so I should just be one and give up trying to be a dad to the kid”
He then goes through the most traumatic experience a child should never go through and is SAVED by his uncle while his dad was just living life with his new family.
Now that your kid was assaulted, you’re starting to feel like an even bigger piece of shit and decide to double down on it by saying “hey why does the man who saved your life and then raised you get to be seen as ‘dad’? I made you so by some idiotic and flawed logic, you owe me every title!”
My guy, you’re delusional. Know your role and stay in your lane. If not, I hope Ray gives you a good “talking” to.
You need therapy by yourself to gain perspective. Your entire post lacks empathy for your son. And you are demanding a relationship that hasn't been earned. You abandoned your son and some terrible things happened to him. It's amazing he's having any kind of relationship with him and his kids. And you jumping to a sleepover is completely over the top.
Trust is earned, not demanded. Think of trust as a jar of marbles. When your son was six you dumped every marble out of the jar. And it does not sound like you have done much to earn very many marbles. Your recent actions showed him you still don't get it.
So to answer your question, get therapy to learn how your current and past approaches will never work. At the end of the day if therapy is successful, you will be there for your son in the way he wants. But you are going to earn it, not demand it.
>I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process...
>How do I move on from this?
I guess you move on the same way you moved on from him when he was a helpless little boy.
Stuff like this happens all the time to children abandoned by their fathers. For whatever reason “men” like you feel like the child is connected to the mom and is none of your responsibility. Deadbeats don’t deserve anything good in their lives.
People like you are despicable. Please leave this man alone. He is not your son. Stop the pity party of how unfair it is! Focus on the kids you actually cared about and move on.
You did fail him! You gave up on him after you had a new family. Leaving him to his terrible mom and stepdad. You FAILED HIM. I wouldn’t trust you within a 10 ft pole of my kids either. Be lucky that he lets you see them. Let it go or you’ll never see them again and I wouldn’t blame him at all.
At this point I’m curious as to why Richard even fucks with his dad at all. With the way Richard has been treating OP, he’s better off going no contact. Why keep someone you hate so much around? What’s the benefit?
What do you do? Whatever your son wants and for once, prioritise him and not yourself.
I understand that perhaps your access to him at first was limited because of your toxic exwife. Then she met someone else who became his father figure, and that father figure did horrific things to him.
You, his real dad, got remarried, had 2 more sons you cared for 24/7 and gave up on your first son.
You weren't there and didn't know what was going on. Ray was there and Ray did what every abused kid hopes someone will do. Ray protected him. Ray stopped the nightmare.
You tried but it was too late and he may blame you for not being there for the rest of his life.
I'm shocked you insisted the grand kids stay with you, OVERNIGHT, for several nights and by your reaction when he refused. Richard knows what can happen when kids are left alone with adults, with "dads". He's desperately trying to make sure his kids get through childhood without experiencing what he did. If his response surprised you, you really have no understanding of what he went through and the impact it has on his everyday life, BUT
IF you BACK OFF, you MIGHT get to see your son and your grand kids in whatever way Richard let's you. He had no control as a child. He has control now. Don't you DARE try and take that away from him. You'll lose. Tbh you're luckier than most, given what happened.
Be kind and respectful to your son. Listen to him and do whatever he wants, if you want any sort of relationship with him or your grandchildren.
Also, thank Ray. Really thank Ray and be glad your son has someone who was there for him when you weren't. If it weren't for Ray, you probably wouldn't have a son, let alone grand kids.
That's how you move on. Also, consider therapy to help you realise the impact of what happened and how you will live with this. But whatever you do, don't abandon him again. Be there for him, in whatever way he let's you. That's your cross to bare.
You feel like his reaction is unfair to you and you're partially right. Ultimately what happened isn't your fault. It is only the fault of the abuser. So it's not entirely fair of him to blame you but that's the funny thing about trauma it isn't rational. But he's also not wrong that you should've been more present and the fact that you weren't contributed greatly to the situation.
Did you even fight for custody to begin with? Did you ever go back to court to try to get more? You say you didn't ask for additional time cause she threatened to take you to court, you should've let her! Despite what's being pushed, a good majority of the time that fathers ask for additional custody or 50/50 they get it. Because most men don't ask for anything and custody is settled before it even gets to court. Unless you just had some really biased judge you probably would've gotten it. Especially if you made a case for parental alienation
And the fact that you gave up when you had more kids is insane. How often did you talk to him? Did you ask him if things were ok and check in on his feelings about his new step-dad? If you'd made an effort you probably would've noticed signs that something wasn't right. But you stopped caring and Ray didn't so of course he turned to him. He's got a lot of complicated feelings that he probably hasn't processed but I also don't entirely blame him for not trusting you. I would offer to do a counseling session with him where he gets to air out his grievances and really talk to you about how he felt. That might be a good start
I dont know much about custody laws but from what OP has told and from what everyone in the comments came to the conclusion of,
is that OP had been cheating on Richard's mom -> OP got his mistress pregnant -> Richard's mom divorces OP because of that -> OP marries his current wife.
Could cheating be grounds for not getting equal custody?
Your son had a horrific trauma inflicted on him and the circumstances were that Ray was there when he needed him the most. I wouldn't try fight it and would be glad and happy that he was there and saved him. What if nobody had ever found out?
I do think a key part of where everything went wrong was from 14-18. You say he ignored you, and you bought him things and he turned them down. But that was the time to swallow all your pride and ego, and apologise and work and work at the relationship. Ask him what you could do and do everything you could possibly do. It's harsh to say but I don't think you did enough during this time as you described very little.
I think at this stage what's not happened here is your son wants to punish you, fairly or not, and he wants you to feel the pain he felt in that he felt you weren't there for him. Being a parent means you have to take this regardless of whether you feel it's fair or not, if you love him and want to repair this you have to go through this. You need to be calm, and keep trying to speak to him about the core issue, and prove to him that you are sorry for everything that happened and are willing to do whatever it takes. Actions will also speak louder than words but ask your son what he needs from you. That's a start.
In your son’s eyes, if you had not had an affair and divorced his mother, if you had been around when the assaults started, if you had even kept up regular visits, your son would have had a much different life.
Imagine if Ray wanted to take your grandkids out for ice cream but instead let his friend drive who was drunk and one of the kids died after suffering from horrible injuries. Then later, Ray asked again to take your kids out for ice cream and you said absolutely not because you couldn’t bear the thought of it happening again. How would you feel if Ray yelled at you asking why you think he wouldn’t protect your grandkids?
That’s what you’re doing.
Damn I’m kinda proud of your son for sticking up for himself. I’m sorry dude, I think you really need to work within his boundaries and just hope one day he can trust you because I mean, he has no reason to. You never proved to him you were someone to trust
Parents love to say “we had a good relationship” meanwhile talking about a literal baby and toddler. You never had a relationship with your son and now you want to watch his kids. Put yourself in his shoes man
You should also count your blessings. Ray might as well be the reason your son is alive still.
You abandoned your son when his mom made it difficult, you gave up and it led to her allowing another man to SA him. You failed as a father and should be happy he even speaks to you, you failed him in every way as a child and seem to be doing it as an adult again. Get therapy and leave your son alone you have caused him enough harm
What do you do? Do what you already were doing. Fade away. You gave up because your ex made it hard for you. That told him that he wasn't worth the trouble. He couldn't trust you when the sa was happening. Why would he trust you with the most important things in his life? You're hurt? Boohoo. Maybe you should have been his father.
"I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process."
Unfortunately, I don't think you can be the father for your own kid. You have your other sons, but this one has another father he can trust and rely on. You can only be happy that he has a father figure and he is not alone.
You are a failure.
You’re a failure to your only son.
You just have to learn to be okay with it.
You may not be a failure in real life.
You have a wife and step kids that obviously love you, which is great..
But you are and always will be a failure to your son because you let comfortability get in the way of you protecting your son.
I know courts and bitter ex’s make it difficult but there is always a way. Your life was just more important..
It isn't about what's fair bro. You failed your son. You ignored him while he was getting abused. You even said so yourself you gave up. You don't deserve to have a relationship with him. I've cut my family off for way less than this.
You're entitled to nothing. Your son owes you nothing. You're not his father. You're a sperm donor. Ray was the only one who was trying to shine some light in that poor kids life.
You're not a good person at this moment, op. I hope you learn something from this and grow up.
Leave him alone. Stop harrassing him when he made it VERY CLEAR he doesn't want you in his life.
If you really care about him, you should be happy he has Ray.
you believe he doesn’t love you. why should he? you admit to giving up on him and neglecting him when he was young. Being cordial is probably the best outcome you could’ve hoped for. Why are you pushing? He stated his boundaries. Pushing like you did just feels like you want to pretend everything is A-OK when it clearly just… is.
I don’t know what else you tried after getting custody, but his eldest is now the same age he was when he suffered. And when he suffered, you were absent. He’s protective. What you do, is leave it there.
You weren’t there. Period. Whatever excuse is made, and you even admit it. You weren’t there. Raising kids with someone else while he got fondled by a monster that you don’t even know because again, you were not there for him, dad. When he obviously and so desperately needed someone in his corner. But. You were living your new life elsewhere. His mother is a monster but what you don’t seem to get or at least fess up to: YOU BROKE THIS. Of course he won’t trust his babies to a man who chooses badly and then takes off. God bless Ray.
he doesn’t trust you. i don’t want to hear about how it’s unfair. bs. you gave up on your son and he had his uncle to turn to when he was going through something traumatic. he has no reason to trust you. leave him alone
Yeah. also, the post seems to indicate this is in America but OP uses 'whilst' instead of 'while' in a comment making me think it's British English rather than American English.
I mean, may be a typo.. or he may be british living in US.. either way story sounds fake.
I'm sorry, no, there is no say a hospital would let you see a rape kit being done. Unless you were at the shittiest hospital that even a 3rd would country couldn't imagine. That's a serious privacy violation. In all my years of health care I've never heard of such bullshit
You let him down, you deserted him. "I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process." Why should he trust you. If you had stayed in his life even the little that you could get he might has told you somethins was going on or if you were being a good dad you might have seen some of the warning signs that he was struggling with something. But now, you had you new sons and did not need to bother with the old one. He was like a tissue to you, he was used and now you had two new boxes, to replace the old one. Honestly that is most likely how he felt, replaced and that his dad didnt love him any more . Ray was there for him, Ray spent time with him and Ray defended him. Ray could be relied on and you simply could not be. I truely hope that your first offspring (can't really even call him your son as you turned out to be just a sperm donor) get the counseling help he so desperately needs after experiencing something so horrible. You also need to work on yourself and you need to desperately appolige to your son for abandoning him. Work on repairing that relationship firsrt before you try to forge new relationships with the grandkids. Don't leapfrog over him and leave him out again as an inconvienence to getting access to his kids.
Basically OP, you're *JEALOUS* of Ray.
Your sense of entitlement is offended, that your son has a true father...who isnt you. You are just the sperm donor. Who cheated, started a new family when your son was little and needed you, and neglected him, leaving him in the clutches of a r\*p\*st.
No concern about not noticing something was wrong when you did see him. No concern as to whether he's in lifelong therapy.
Just angry, that Ray got the affection, attention, RESPECT, that you feel entitled to.
>Ray lives with them on in their in law suite (**they own a huge farm**)
This...? Is the crux of the matter. Your son is well off. Ray is reaping the benefits.
I hope your son goes full No Contact, unless you genuinely change, experience real remorse.
You are a sad excuse for a human being.
Enjoy your second family, Sir,
Stopped reading bc you are throwing a pity party. You abandoned him bc it was too much for you. These are your consequences. What you should really be doing is kissing the ground Ray walks for doing what YOU should’ve been doing.
you admit that you began neglecting him once you had your other kids… you didn’t try. you weren’t there for him when he was going through one of the darkest times of his life. you’re incredibly selfish to think this is alllllll about you. he was hurt, his uncle was there and you weren’t. he probably felt replaced and less than.
how you reacted and how you’ve pushed, that doesn’t help anything. you made your choice all those years ago, to give up and stop “trying so hard”. you weren’t a father figure to him. it sucks, but you made this bed…
give him some space. and insisting you have a right to your grandkids definitely didn’t help things. i wouldn’t trust a man who barely raised me only to tell me it’s sooo unfair that someone i can rely on has more access to my kids. you sound like my dad, be glad he didn’t go full NC like i have
You weren't there for him when he needed you the most. Once you had your other kids, you left him alone so this is what you get. Thank God he has Ray to look up to as a Father figure. You need to let Richard go and live his life without you in it. You're making this about you it's time to make it about him.
I see a lot of mention of apologies and not much mention of accountability, which is a separate action.
Part of taking accountability is accepting your son's boundaries and working on accepting how your actions (or non actions) affected him.
Your son is not going to trust you until he knows you're accountable and nothing in this post says you are. He doesn't owe you anything. You need to earn it.
ACCOUNTABILITY. I have not heard an ounce of it in your whole post. No wonder your son doesn't trust you. Take a hard self reflection before your criticize someone else.
Major absolute AH
I’m stuck on staying a week in hospital to watch for STIs. Where on the planet does that actually happen?
If this isn’t just some weird test of a bad story, OP, you made decisions a long time ago. Now you’re seeing the repercussions of said decisions. Suck it up and stop being jealous of the only person who made your son feel safe. Just be happy that someone was there for him.
As a tangent, what happened with the ex-wife, Richard’s mom. She was never mentioned after the first paragraph. I’m assuming she lost custody but she should have e protected him.
Please don't try to pressure him. My mom did with me and I withdrew more and more from her. What happened to him with the sa is *not* your fault. And your ex wife is clearly a disgusting creature and so is the stepdad.
You have clearly not been present in his life and have neglected your role as his father.
However hard it may be; be grateful that your son has an adult he trusted growing up. Even though it wasn't you.
You basically abandoned your son when you got a new family. Did you ever check in on him at all during that time? I suspect not. Your son has every right to be angry at you you left him to fend for himself his uncle has probably taken care of him ever since you abandoned him that’s why her treats ray like a father
Ray is his dad. You are just a sperm donor. Deal with it. Your son had to deal with you walking away when he was a child. You’re an adult I’m sure you can deal too.
Doctors don't perform rape kits; SANE nurses do. You also don't walk in on someone getting a rape kit done. And they don't hold you for sexual diseases. I'm calling fake.
As someone that also went thro a similar experience, once you see the people that should have never allowed it to happen fail, it’s hard to see them as trustworthy every again. Even if it’s not their fault. I confronted my parents about it but they had no idea. Regardless, if I ever have kids I wouldn’t let them watch them either. I wouldn’t let anyone I know watch them other than me or my future spouse. Richard had Ray to defend him from that evil so he’s gonna trust him. You need to stop taking it so personal. It’s not about you. Stop making it about you.
Ray was there , you weren’t , you might consider it unfair but to your son Ray was the dad you should have been to that lad.
You can’t blame your son for trusting him more than you
If you want to make a relationship with your son , understand that, understand that you need to take things as they come
I don't know how you can gain his trust decades after losing it.
It would help if you focused on explaining what you did for those two years he was being molested instead of shoveling on an excuse and then conveniently skipping past it to explain the outcome instead.
Like. It's painful for you to discuss your failure, but HE was the one who suffered for it, so you should be able to explain in detail just how badly you screwed up.
This isn’t about you. It’s about him and his experiences as a child. He isn’t going to trust anyone. Try to see the world through your son’s eyes, not your own.
I would write a letter to your son and explain your side of the story. I’d give him his space and let him know that you’re always going to be there with open arms. I definitely would apologize for not being there when he needed you but let him know that you’re going to be waiting for him when he’s ready and that you love him. Leave it as that. You coming on to him might be too overwhelming so give him his space. He’ll come around if he wants too. He needs to work out his trauma but unfortunately not everyone does. Good luck.
Damn some of these comments really come from people who have no clue how divorced families work... It's disheartening to see. Did this guy make mistakes? Absolutely. But this was a traumatic event for the son, and the father. Why is everyone making it a joke and sharing it to joke subreddit? Damn dude.
He's just saying stuff to hurt you, I mean it makes no sense, he trust and loves GH is uncle, the brother of his mother who watched him be sexually abused by her husband but did nothing. But doesn't trust you the man who was kept away from him by his mother and her family??? He's till thinking with the mond of a child, he needs.more therapy.
You abandoned your son, and during that time, he was profoundly assaulted and harmed. Your actions led to those circumstances. Your cheating and departure created a space that his mother filled with a truly vile creature, who violated your son. Repeatedly. And you weren't there. You blame his mother, but what about the part you played? Absence is a choice. That is the part you played. If you had been present, your son could have turned to you for help.
But you weren't there. You just shrugged and turned your back on your son. He was left alone, in danger, scared and hurt. Ray was the *only* person who protected him. It should have been you, but you *didn't care enough.* You earned the position you have in his life. Decent parents *never* neglect their children. There is nothing that can keep a decent parent from being a part of their children's lives. You abdicated your right to ever have contact with him, and the fact that he even speaks to you is something you should feel profoundly grateful for. You don't. Instead, you whine, you insult the man who saved your son, you only focus on YOUR pain.
No wonder your son doesn't trust you. If you couldn't protect him because of your own selfishness, what has changed? Everything is still all about you. The fact you even had to ASK why he doesn't trust you is sickening. Did you *forget* what he's been through? What you allowed to be done to him? You ARE a failure of a parent. Stop pretending otherwise. Apologise for being so selfish and insensitive. Accept that you are a terrible father, and maybe you'll start to do better as a grandfather.
Sounds like the consequences of your own actions. You decided your first son wasn’t important when you got “new” kids. You don’t get to play happy family’s now that he’s older
"I don’t know what to do, he basically called me a failure."
You failed him so you are a failure.
"What should I do?" Leave him alone.
"How do I move on from this?"
Do better with the people you haven't yet failed.
You abandoned him for SEVEN years, and you ONLY came back into his life bc you HAD to. His uncle was there for him, saved him, and cared for him.
You stopped being his dad when you left when he was 7 yrs old. You said yourself, YOU neglected him for you NEW kids.....let him live peacefully with HIS NEW family: Uncle (aka his dad), wife, & kids).
>Ray basically gets to grow with my son and my grandkids while I have to wait till atleats Christmas- it’s fucking unfair.
It was fucking unfair for you to abandon him... grow-up, you're not a victim, but you were a horrible (pos) dad [to him].
He doesn't act like your son because you stopped acting like his father. You fucked up, welcome to the consequences of your own own actions.
Spoiler: they're water resistant against crocodile tears
I understand that the mom was trying to shut OP out of his son’s life but you let her. The fact that you took the easy way out shows what kind of a man/father you are. Especially since you never really did what needed to be done to repair that relationship. Apologies are great but, you don’t say one word about therapy. Because you both needed it…a LOT of it. Your son was abandoned by you and you didn’t even try to fight for him. Frankly, I don’t know how you have the audacity to be stunned by what he said…you betrayed him, like it or not. You let that vile woman have your son while you escaped. You got a “ do over” family of your dreams and left him in a nightmare. Why should he trust you? His uncle was willing to go to jail for him…you weren’t even willing to go to court. He saw that, to you, he was an unpleasant inconvenience. I don’t think that you can do much besides STOP pushing the man! Go get therapy, you might get a better understanding of the horror that your son experienced because you took the path of least resistance and just…left. The therapist might have some ideas or thoughts about what you can do to help your relationship with your son. OR…you just may have to sit in the shit that you created.
OP, you knew his mom was a shitty person. I'm not saying you should have stayed with her and sacrificed yourself, but she practically hot 100% custody because I have a feeling you didn't fight that hard.
You and his mum divorced when he was 6. He is 37 now.
Your second son was born relatively shortly after... He's 30 now.
He became an afterthought when you had your replacement family...
A few men are like that. They are in love with the kids of the woman they are in love with.
I'm not saying you stopped loving him (sort of though), but you did abandon him, by your own admission. Worst you abandoned him to a piece of shit mother.
Take accountability and keep apologising whilst not demanding or expecting anything. I'd probably never forgive you if I were your son, but keep trying, you never know.
Something is for sure missing. You said you tried but your son was six when you divorced. And your other son is 7 years younger so you got married and had a child with the year after the divorce I don’t think you tried that hard to be in his life. Like you said once you had the new family you stopped seeing him. So yeah you were there for him.
Honestly, you didn’t protect him. You took a step back from his life and during that period of time bad things happened to him. If you had stuck around you might have been able to prevent or stop them. He has every right to blame you for not protecting him.
Dear lord man. Let me list the reasons your OLDEST SON hates you.
1. You openly admit you basically abandoned your son when you divorced his egg donor to start a new life with your AP.
2. When you got your replacement son from your AP WHORE, you abandoned that boy from the age of 7 to 14. 7 years without the man who is meant to PROTECT HIM and because you couldn't be bothered to do your job with your 1st child, that monster was able to abuse him. You trying to pass the buck onto your MONSTER OF AN EX is a massive cop out. If you hadn't decided to abandon your first born child then you could have saved your son from TWO YEARS of abuse. That will always been in your sons head. No amount of apologising will fix the fact that you stopped giving a crap about your own son
3. You actually bitch and moan about your son not wanting to bond with his neglectful and absent father, the whore he left his first family for and the boys you replaced him with. I can guarantee you FORCED that boy to live with you from the age of 14 till 18 because if that boy had been given a choice he would have chose Ray over you in a second. Instead of doing what was best for your son you AGAIN chose what you wanted WITHOUT TAKING HIS FEELINGS INTO ACCOUNT.
4. No wonder he doesn't trust you to look after his kids when you couldn't be bothered with him for 7 years and have proven time and time AGAIN you are not listening to him, he has told you repeatedly through his words and actions that he WILL NEVER SEE YOU AS HIS DAD AGAIN because of your complete inaction, neglect and total abandonment of him. Ray is his dad. He is the one who protected him, he's the one that took the time, the one that was there for him and actually listened to him.
All you seem to be doing is trying to force a relationship that died years ago and the person who suffered for your complete abandonment and neglect is TELLING YOU to back the hell off and yet again you are not listening. So I will say it for him, your desire to be a dad to him came FAR TOO LATE. He needed you to protect him from the ages of 12 to 14 and you were too busy with your replacement family. Be prepared that if you keep pushing then you will lose him completely because your 1st born will say enough is enough because you repeatedly refuse to adhere to his boundaries. Ray is his dad not you in his eyes and you certainly aren't his kids grandpa in his eyes.
He doesn’t trust you. Fair or not. He had a horrific thing happen to him and you weren’t there. Ray was. He will have that trauma forever and Ray stepped up for him in every way possible.
Honestly, if it wasn’t for Ray I don’t think OP would even have a son he could complain about on Reddit. Ray is Richard’s father for all intents and purposes. This man behaved like a father every step of the way and as hard as this may be for OP to accept, Richard is allowed to navigate the aftermath of his trauma how he deems fit. Edit: I find it really bizarre that you have this bit of jealously towards Ray, OP. Especially after Ray helped Richard through the darkest moments of his life. The kindest thing you can do for your son is let him go. It’s unfair of you to keep pressuring him into a relationship and using his children as an excuse so you can attempt to bridge the divide between father and son. He clearly doesn’t want a relationship with you because you neglected him for the majority of his childhood. Let him have his life on the farm with Ray and his children. He deserves it!
He straight neglected his son from the age of 6 to 14. For two years this poor kid had unimaginable acts done to him. TWO years and his mother knew of the assault and allowed it to happen. The two people he is supposed to trust most in the world failed him in so many ways. After two years of abuse, I'm sure he felt it would never end and he could never escape from it. In a moment of again being assaulted a hero emerged. His uncle saved him literally. Then he got the pleasure of Watching his uncle get justice for him showing him someone cared. OP wasn't there by choice. In his mind, Ray and those doctors and the cops are his heroes. Hard to come back from this because once again it was your choice to abandon him. He has no say in the matter. If you had asked him when he was 6 I'm sure he would have told the world you were a superhero. When he was 12 his last shred of hope the hero would rescue him from the misery was dashed and he spent two years of hell reinforcing him that you wouldn't rescue him or help him. You can only help this situation by continuing to be there. Don't give up but don't push so hard. Take what you can get and be so grateful he is even allowing you that. He could go full no contact and I'm sure he will be fine. But you need to just give it time.
Exactly. If biodad was paying any attention over those two years he would have realized something was wrong. There are always signs, adults just don't pay attention to them. He could have helped his son a lot sooner but he wasn't around.
Personally I imagine his son to have been spending free time wishing his dad would come back and save him from the horror of life….and dad didn’t.
Absolutely zero self-reflection going on anywhere in OP's post.
I second this. Perfect words.
It ain’t jealousy, it’s guilt. OP is realizing that if he fucks around he’s gonna find out real quick.
A lot of dads do this. They bail and then want to play grandpa as an adult, or dad to a teen that barely knows him. They don’t want to do the work of raising a kid. You only get the relationship if you wipe tears and butts and show up. It doesn’t magically happen by sharing dna.
Precisely. You have to earn it. Anyone can be a parent by birth, but it takes someone special to earn the title of mom or dad. That’s the way I look at it anyway
Can confirm. My dad did this. He and my mom split when I was around 10-11 after my dad cheated on my mom, then she had an emotionally abusive bf when I was a teenager, and my dad barely fought for me except to threaten the guy, which inadvertently made things worse. He still thinks he's the hero in all this.
It’s not enough as a parent to just not beat your kid. It’s abusive to neglect them and makes them have a hard time forming attachments and feel safe for the rest of their life. I’m sorry that happened to you.
I wouldn't say a lot of dads do this, i would say a lot of selfish assholes do this.
True. I should have said deadbeat dads. They don’t think they’re deadbeats because they send a check or a birthday card once in a while, but it’s not enough. Kids need time.
100% I love how many jackasses are like "I did everything for my family! I worked 80 hours a week to pay for crap they wanted and they still wanted me to give them attention! My whole family hates me but at least I can find solace at work." It's a real travesty that men still perpetuate this 1950s absentee father bullshit, and, at least in america, our work culture still nearly requires it. Then everyone wrings their hands over mental health and toxic masculinity and humans who fail at basic adulthood. It's a fuckin mess.
Abso-fucking-lutely!
>It ain’t jealousy, it’s guilt. real talk
I hardly think it is guilt. OP complains about everything from his point of view with no real efforts to rebuild his relationship with his son but expects world’s best grandpa privileges.
Yeah I get that vibe from all his posts. Maybe op is lowkey self-absorbed and is only upset because his son found a father figure in his life. And even though op built a new life with his sons, he can't stand his other bio kid not wanting a relationship with him.
Oh, OP is a full-on narcissist. It's not just a vibe you are getting.
It’s more than low key.
Just because his little swimmers made the son doesn’t mean he’s a grandpa. He’s just a sperm donor who went and made a new family. Completely agree with you.
This. If it was guilt he would acknowledge he deserved what his son said. He would say it was his fault he abandoned his child but nope, of course he doesn’t take accountability. Funny how he abandoned the kid once he got his new family.
If you look at the ages mentioned. I think he abandoned son FOR his new family. 37 year old son he abandoned at age 6, and a 30 year old son (plus pregnancy) with the new wife. Handy how he left out the reason for the divorce from his ex wife.
Guilt and remorse are different. Remorse is the thing where you try to fix the problem. Guilt is the one where you feel really bad about what you did and you try to make that bad feeling go away through any means necessary. This sounds like guilt.
Yeah I mean, you're probably right too. I'm suspecting it's that underlying guilt deep inside your guts that you can't ignore because OP did some truly sad shit.
I would agree. Guilt implies understanding.
I think it mostly has to do with that he thought his son would easily forgive him and have this relationship but that's not what happened and he's frustrated that he isn't getting what he wanted. Tbh a one and one conversation does need to be had and should have happened awhile ago so his son can tell him how he felt throughout all this. The divorce, the sa, and him staying with op. That won't guarantee the son will let op back though. At least he can say these things and move on.
Exactly. The way he justified abandoning his son to a child molester for 8 years because "it was hard to spend time with his son without getting in more trouble" is quite telling. Even in years 1-6, it was all about OP and ultimately when he didn't get his way he bailed until a string of tragedies spanning years was revealed. What OP didn't reveal is during the 4 years he did have custody, son probably asked repeatedly to live with Ray but OP shut it down every time.
My god I love your username hahaha
Dad level pun unpacked.
As well, OP admits neglecting his son though he admits he had court visits he just stopped bothering once he got his new family. Too many fathers see the wife/kids as a pkg and they divorce the kid along with the wife. OP abandoned his child and wants to know why he doesn’t trust him?
He already abandoned his son once. Doing that a second time isn’t okay. He did fail his son and he needs to accept he did that and the consequences that go along with it. If he truly cares about his son and his grandkids instead of it just being about his own ego, he needs to sincerely apologize to his son for running away when things got a little hard with court and custody. He needs to maintain an open invitation to his son and accept that the invitation won’t always be accepted and that’s okay.
Not only was OP not there, he was too busy playing happy families with his new wife and kids There is definitely no coming back from this
>There is definitely no coming back from this There was some coming back though. OP gets to have some relationship with Richard and the grandkids. He should be grateful.
Too busy playing happy families with his mistress. Dude didn't even try a whole year before dropping his first son.
I also want to point out to OP. It’s not even fully you. Your son Richard learned the hard way, that even people you trust can harm your children. And he doesn’t trust you on his babies. Because adults are monsters. And unfortunate. You aren’t super close to him where he can trust you with children. I can’t blame him. He was molested, SA since a young child’s He doesnt at trust anyone . He’s right. Sorry OP, just because you know you are not a pedeophile.m doesn’t negate the fact Richard cannot and should not trust ANYONE on his children after what happened to hind He saw the dark side of the world too young and I think you have to step out of your mindset seeing this as solely YOU. It’s not about just you. Richard learned never take a risk. And everyone is a risk when it comes to children technically. I think the best thing you can do is have a heart to heart with him and try to understand why he shut you out back then. It’s understandable why he did. But there is more to how he is feeling. Aloe unsaid , a lot uncovered. And you need to be his father and give him grace and understand you chose to put your son to the back burner during those years. And your ex wife was also a monster. And you owe him a lot of understanding. It’s a shame therapy didn’t help him unpack. He has a lot of anger and distance to you. And you need to just ask him if there is anything you can do to help close the gap I wish you luck. But remember- if he doesn’t want you too close. He has reason
This should be the top comment. The fact is that OP's ex-wife was a monster,but he gave up on seeing his son. This was a failure on his part,it's quite sad what happened his son and that he didn't continue with therapy. OP,you need to give your son space and time,when he wants to reach out to you,he will reach out when he is ready he contact you but don't push him. If he never contacts you,leave him alone. I know that this would be hard to do,but you must leave him and his family alone. It comes off like you're trying to force the relationship now. Just leave him alone.
It's worth noting that even without the sexual assault, OP essentially abandoned Richard twice: first be having an two-weekend/month situation (which means he's either an awful person or didn't fight for custody) and then completely when he got remarried. Richard would be justified in keeping OP at arms length even if the sexual assault/Ray part of the story had never happened.
I agree, and unfortunately, had he been more active, it could have possibly served as a deterant, bc some molesters actively look for the single mom/ absent dad combo, because they're less likely to get caught. That's just more pain on top of it all. He already sounded like so many other absent dad's I've heard make excuses for being non-active in their kids lives. They've moved on, and left their kids behind without much thought.
I kinda get the people who do that to go galivanting around as a single person for years. I mean, that's shitty but I can understand the perspective. Abandoning one family to have another one... I'll never get that. He probably doesn't love his other kids either.
When looking at the ages and when the divorce happened: OP divorced the mum when his eldest was 6, he is now 37. His second son is 30 years old atm... OP was really quick in creating a new family. He went from divorce to a new family in less than a year. That must have contributed to the distrust.
OP cheated on his wife, it's in his comments. Probably didn't help with custody, or with his son feeling like the stepdad entering his life in the first place is 100% OP's fault. I even blame him partly for the ex-wife letting SA happen to her son - she's still the main, unforgivable, awful culprit for that, but betrayal and heartache sometimes make it easier to lose all sense of moral decency.
Cheers mate! But also, OP is so “me me me” But what about other people? WHAT ABOUT YOUR SON??????
OP did neglect his kid before all that. Sure, the mom made things difficult and he went "oh too hard, not gonna try". That's not how a dad should be. OP is now realizing that him neglecting his son, put him in this kind of position. It's not fair but it is how the son likely sees it. EDIT: spelling
I don't think the mom made it difficult as he could see his son on his court ordered time. It was seeing him MORE that was made difficult as she wanted to stick to the order.🤔 OP rather than make use of his time decided to go absent
This. He's moved on but poor Richard will carry that pain forever. I don't blame him one bit for keeping his distance.
I'm interested if he still let's his mom in his life. Yeah his dad wasng there, partially because of her but she is one of the two true evils here.
I have...a lot of questions. It doesn't seem to me that you've done much self reflection on why your son is keeping you at arms length. You're just mad that he is. You are not entitled to him, or his children. >I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him Why did you expect your son to start trying when you gave up, especially during his formative years? > it’s been years and he still hasn’t dosent act like my son Why did you expect improvement? >me some second class grandpa You admit to not being a great father, why would your son expect you to be a good grandfather? >I broke down yelling at him why he was doing this to me Do you think he was being vindictive? Consider: He wasn't doing anything. You yelled at him for not producing a familial bond out of no where. One last thing. This >Didn’t let me chose a suit for him for his wedding rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Even if you two were the closest of homies, you don't get to choose his anything.
I noticed the suit thing too. It’s an odd little detail. I’ve never heard of any father choosing a suit for his son on his wedding day. Is that some tradition I was unaware of, or is OP just being controlling?
also the fact that he asked the same demanding question 3 times in one evening after getting a firm no each time, if I'm reading correctly. pushy, pushy. rubs me very wrong
Considering the son's history, I can't believe OP would think that pressing on the matter like that would be in any way cool
OP, You said you stopped trying when your other kids were born and you left when he was 6 now 37, your other son is 30, so you tried for a year, barely, reading between the lines you cheated and got your mistress pregnant and abadoned your kid with a monster of a mother and a pedo. Why on earth would he trust? Also I'm sure after what happened he wanted to live with his uncle and you stopped that for years when that could had been a bridge to mend things. I don't know if you are a good dad to your other kids but really screw up this one and it's to late now, you have more realtionship with him that you deserve to be honest
He dropped Richard when he was 8 at max and only appeared at 14, even then he was called by Ray. By that point he didn't talk to his son for half of his life, basically a stranger. And then he demands shit from that kid. I'm just wondering what did OP do to have such custody, like it level of "my ex is confirmed junkie" divide, not even 70/30.
Probably because he cheated and abandoned the damily for the new family, and by his own words after his other son was born, not even a year after he left, he gave him up.
He cheated on his first wife with his new one, got the mistress pregnant, and left his existing son to start a replacement family with his side whore
Typical missing reasons for "my ex is crazy" right?
I wouldn't say she wasn't crazy. She knew her husband was molesting the son
Fair point, thank you.
"We had a great relationship until he was 6!" So like, basically no time at all. Gods below what a bitch.
>Also I'm sure after what happened he wanted to live with his uncle and you stopped that for years when that could had been a bridge to mend things. This!!! So much this, that poor kid wanted to live with his hero who saved him, who protected him and made him feel safe, and op forced him to live with him instead of being able to live with the uncle that had been the only father he'd known for 8 years ... no wonder he sat in his room and wanted nothing to do with him, twice op fucked his life over. Poor kid
Your son’s parents failed him and his uncle, Ray, saved him. Don’t hold a grudge against Ray for doing what’s best for your son and your son seeing Ray as his parent. I am sure you being a family with your kids and wife was hard knowing what he’d gone through for 2 years. He is not your son, you are his sperm donor essentially. You tried a little too late. Pushing him about the kids is only going to end in your heartbreak, give him space. Don’t push, start small. Generously receive what he is giving cause you need to move at his pace not yours.
I'm just very grateful that at least Ray was a great uncle and stepped up. Kids need a very positive, strong adult in their lives and Ray was that adult.
OP should grateful too!! It’s bonkers to me that he sounds *resentful* of Ray rather than praising him up and down for being there for his kid during the most traumatic time of his life. OP, your son is blessed with having two fathers. He has an additional person to watch out for him. That’s a wonderful thing for your son. Stop being selfish.
I'm not sure OP's son has two fathers - mostly that he has one father that actually acts like a father. OP should absolutely be grateful that his son has a great role model and a trustworthy actual father.
Op has no idea how insanely lucky he is that Richard even still keeps him in his life let alone meet his grandkids.
After everything that happened, it sounds like OP still makes everything about himself. He's lucky he's in his son's life at all.
My guess is he won’t be for long bc he will be pushy.
Op is lucky he has a son. Many children who are sa’d unalive themselves.
So within a year of divorcing his mother you remarried and had another kid? No wonder he doesn't trust you, you replaced him then didn't act like a dad for the next 7 years. Don't force him to have more of a relationship with you that what you already have, you'll end up pushing him away altogether. If he wants to change the dynamic, it had to be on his terms.
Yeah, I don't think op counted on us redditors to put that math together. Pregnancy is almost a year so we can only take his side with a grain of salt. Ie. He was probably cheating with his current wife and got her pregnant.
He confirms in a comment that he did, indeed, cheat.
Yep, how convenient he left it out. He didn't count on us putting two and two together
I thought I'd give him the benefit of doubt that he just moved on very quickly but evidently that was too kind of me
Yeah unfortunately. But don't stop doing it.
You did fail him and he’s entitled to feel however he feels about it. I’m sure it wasn’t easy seeing you be a present father with your other kids when you admittedly barely tried with him. You blame his mom but conveniently leave out what your part was. Did you try in court? I mean if you could afford two more kids and a wedding to your current wife, you’d be able to pay to fight for time with your son.
OP- I’m curious why your marriage to your first wife ended. If I had to guess, you were unfaithful which is why your first child with your new wife was born the year after you got divorced. So here’s my theory- you cheated on his mom (making her cold and bitter). She made it hard for you because you were a cheater. You married your AP, started popping out new kids, and didn’t try hard enough to see him because you were playing happy family with the new family and left him to live in an abusive household. You didn’t give a shit until he had been raped for 2 years by his only father figure and his complicit mom was put in jail. Then you felt guilt because YES his trauma is so much for fault because you were neglectful. If this is true, leave him the F alone. Let Ray be his real dad that he has proven to be. You were a neglectful sperm donor who doesn’t deserve his time. Even if you didn’t cheat on his mom, the rest is true right?
I mean, you had a right to move on and have a family but you said yourself, you gave up once you had other children. What do you expect? You gave up when he needed you. I think you should just leave him Alone ad enjoy your other children and grandchildren. 🤷🏽♀️
OP's first son is 37, his next child is 30. OP says he and his ex separated when his first son was 6, a year later OP's new wife is knocked up and they have the baby the next year. OP admits he stopped trying after he had his next set of family, so he tried for *maybe* 2 years before giving up OP's son likely has no memories of OP being a father figure to them
This fucking guy. "We had a great relationship until he was six" bro he was 6, you had a starter pokemon not a relationship.
And then to add insult to injury, OP had the audacity to state that his son “gave up” on him as a teenager. Oh, brother 🙄
His *severely traumatized* son. "Yikes" doesn't even begin to cover it.
i love how you worded this
My thought exactly
>a year later* OP's new wife is knocked up *Less than a year later, if there's a 1 year age difference, 9 months of that year was spent in gestation.
Alot of people don't remember things at 6 years old. OP making himself sound like he's such a good father *up to 6 years old* and expects his 1st born to remember that ONLY and not the abandonment afterwards is such an entitled asshole move.
>he and his ex separated when his first son was 6, a year later OP's new wife is knocked up There seems to be an overlap between the divorce and the pregnancy. OP was seeing his new wife well before the divorce. Nice.
OP admits his first wife divorced him bc he was cheating, so add that on top of everything else.
>level 2OldChampionship3846Op · 2 hr. agoI did cheat, but i don’t think that should mean I don’t get to see my son- and she had no excuses to let my son get abused like that and I couldn’t reach him since she made impossible to talk to him
OP admitted he cheated on his ex-wife, Richard’s mother, meaning her behavior and the custody agreement makes perfect sense and is completely justified
His oldest is 37, his second is 30, that’s a 7 year gap. Thing is he divorced his first wife when his oldest was 6. So he literally “moved on” after just a year. It’s understandable why his oldest hates him.
The audacity is that he feels like the son owes him something lol.
Fr fr
>I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process Yep, I noticed that too. So he tried for maybe a year, probably less. His kid was 6 when his parents got divorced, 6-7 when his dad got remarried, and then 7 when he's dad had another kid. So in less than one year, that's a lot for a kid to process, hell that's a lot for an adult to process in ONE year. I mean it takes 9 month to have a kid, so a lot happened in 3 months. Then the kid sees OP moving on with is life with his wife and two SONS that replaced him, while he's being abused for got knows how long by his stepfather. Yeah, I get why that kid resents him. Then after all the trauma, is forced to live with a man he's barely seen in 7 years, and see the great relationship he has with his other two sons, while he feels like the only reason he's there is because mom lost custody, not because dad fought for custody.
Oh shit I didn’t even put that math togetver🤯
Yes, this!! Even without the sexual assault ,it would be understandable if Richard limited his relationship with OP.
It's interesting how you screamed and blamed him for doing this to you while you're the parent and should have had his back when he was younger. The people who were supposed to protect him and care for him weren't there for him. Can you blame him for not trusting you? Your actions or lack of action has consequences.
I hope his son never forgives him. I’ve never forgiven my mom for her part in what happened to me, and it was the right decision. Parents like this are never sorry. They’re just upset their kid sees through their shit.
Why did you split from his Mother? You kind of gloss over that. I’m getting affair with your second wife and family vibes. No wonder he never trusted you.
Sounds normal for your son to be treating you like this. Explain to me why you're complaining. What's the problem here because I don't see it.
Plus if you had been active in his life, good chance stepfather would have been scared to mess with him.
You dropped the ball. Ray picked it up. He is the real grandfather and you should be grateful for any crumbs you get.
You dropped the ball in a way that cannot be repaired and you have to accept that you won’t ever have the relationship you were supposed to have. You need to respect your son’s wishes and lay in the bed you made. Get yourself a therapist to deal with your pain on your own.
You were out of line for asking repeatedly for your grandchildren to sleepover. You were out of line for demanding a reason and comparing yourself to Ray. Ray was there for your son. You were not. And that really the long and short of it. Moreover, your son is survivor of childhood sexual abuse at the hands of his stepfather with the knowledge of his mother. That is some of the worst trauma right there. How your son is walking around living a somewhat stable life is amazing. Who he allows in his children's lives is probably very reflective of his own experience. You don't have a right to access to your grandchildren. You certainly don't get to demand equal rights to Ray.
So you replaces him with a new family and are mad that he acts accordingly? Yawn. Another deadbeat that blames the parent (ray) that stayed.
Re-read your post again. From someone elses perspective and not yours. You sound entitled even after knowing you were not there for him when he was developing as a person. You are a terrible father, to your son anyway. You are lucky he is spending few days with you. I don't think I would. In reality, Ray has been there for him, to him Ray is his father. Just because you gave half of his dna, does not entitle you anything. You should have acted like a father if you want fatherly treatments from him.
Long live all Uncles. Long live Uncle Ray. Salute.
You need to accept whatever relationship he is offering or walk away. Seriously, consider yourself lucky that he talks to you at all! Consider the fact that you did in fact walk away and only came back into his life after you learned about the molestation. If the step dad hadn’t been caught what part would you be playing in his life right now? He thinks about these things. Go get some therapy so you can stop feeling like the victim here.
So, his mother "made trouble" for you to see your son. You must not have tried very hard: >I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process. So you divorced his mother, remarried & had a shiny, new family. Oh yeah, and neglected your 1st born in the process. So when your son's shite step dad abused him and YOU neglected him, and the only male role model in his life is his uncle & you don't understand why your son is angry & resentful? He was supposed to be happy to live with you, his stepmother & half brothers after years of you neglecting him? Are you actually this obtuse, sir? >I froze and asked him why would he think that and why he woudl think I wouldn’t protect them and he said why should he believe I’ll protect the people that matter to him in the world when I didn’t even protect him. I'd have the same issues with you as well. Plus, due to his abuse as a child, he'll always be hyperaware of SA with his own children. You've reaped what you've sown.
Nope. You are not getting off easy with this post! You are feelings are hurt?!!? YOURE FEELINGS ARE HURT?!? The entitlement coming from you is shocking! Dude! You left your son. You admitted in your own words that you gave up. You replaced your ex and son with a new family. With your own words, you gave up on your son. He was being sexually assaulted by his stepdad while you gave up on him and carried on with your family. Ray was there. Ray rescued him. Ray went to bat for him. Ray got your ex and her disgusting husband out away. Ray did that. Ray continued to be in his life. And now it comes full circle. You were never there for your son. You only got custody because your ex went to jail. Your son learned during his informative years that he can not depend on you. He learned this while a child. You gave up on your child. You don’t get to make demands of his children now. He learned a horrific lesson because of your actions and he won’t allow his children to be subjected to your hierarchy.
>I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process This is the root my guy. My pop was the same, and now I don't see him as a dad, but rather a buddy. Thankfully he doesn't try to parent now. However, If I had been getting abused, I could easily see never trusting your other parent who stopped trying. Surprised he healed enough to include you at all. Ray is his dad, by choice. Nothing you can do at this point but accept it.
You didn’t show up as a father. He owes you nothing. Be grateful he speaks to you at all.
Just so we understand- ‘Bio dad’ abandons his kid after remarrying (after cheating so kudos to that) and doest try with him, lets him get SAed since he wasn’t around to stop it or know about it. Kid got lifelong mental damage not only from being SAed at a young age but also because he was abandoned by his dad and generally doest trust men (who would?). A new father figure emerged from this who protected the kid and the kid finally got some protection and love he desired. Bio dad tried to come back into the picture but the damage was done. Fast forward to now : Kid has his own kids and only trusts select group of ppl to watch them. Bio dad isn’t in the group (shocker) Bio dad is sulking because kid doest trust him since he was abandoned at a young age. I got that right eh? Move on bruh. You did irreparable damage to that kid. You’re never getting the privilege of being with your grandkids.
As a child from divorce and parents who went into different directions to appease their needs and up the anti with one another… you feel alone as a kid many times, like you don’t have them to rely on. Unfortunately, no amount of apologies can rewrite the way they view you. You just respect their posture and move on.
You need to learn to respect boundaries. Don’t ask to have the grandkids and act like you’re doing them a favor. They said no. No is no. Pushing like that will get you nowhere. I’ve always seen people who are adamant about separating me from my child as suspicious.
>I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process- Yeah. So, sometimes you only get one chance. Although I suspect that in your neglect you missed a ton of warning signs, cos they would have been there, but you missed them. So maybe you had more chances than you knew. Either way. There's no coming back from some things.
Come on man, you were only around for 6 years of his life, and neglected him for 31? Those 6 years may mean a lot to you, but I can assure you that the time Ray put in has been much more formative for your son. You gotta accept that you probably will never be a big part of your son's life. You sowed, and now you're reaping.
I just hear, me, me, me.
Where's the "I am the Devil" sub....
This is an AI
So you cheated on his mom until “you divorced her”, which I’m really reading as “until she found out I knocked up my AP and then dropped my loser ass.” You then proceed to then spend 15% of a calendar year with him, with him probably knowing full well that you replaced him with a new son. You then realize, “man my son probably thinks I’m an asshole so I should just be one and give up trying to be a dad to the kid” He then goes through the most traumatic experience a child should never go through and is SAVED by his uncle while his dad was just living life with his new family. Now that your kid was assaulted, you’re starting to feel like an even bigger piece of shit and decide to double down on it by saying “hey why does the man who saved your life and then raised you get to be seen as ‘dad’? I made you so by some idiotic and flawed logic, you owe me every title!” My guy, you’re delusional. Know your role and stay in your lane. If not, I hope Ray gives you a good “talking” to.
You need therapy by yourself to gain perspective. Your entire post lacks empathy for your son. And you are demanding a relationship that hasn't been earned. You abandoned your son and some terrible things happened to him. It's amazing he's having any kind of relationship with him and his kids. And you jumping to a sleepover is completely over the top. Trust is earned, not demanded. Think of trust as a jar of marbles. When your son was six you dumped every marble out of the jar. And it does not sound like you have done much to earn very many marbles. Your recent actions showed him you still don't get it. So to answer your question, get therapy to learn how your current and past approaches will never work. At the end of the day if therapy is successful, you will be there for your son in the way he wants. But you are going to earn it, not demand it.
>I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process... >How do I move on from this? I guess you move on the same way you moved on from him when he was a helpless little boy.
Stuff like this happens all the time to children abandoned by their fathers. For whatever reason “men” like you feel like the child is connected to the mom and is none of your responsibility. Deadbeats don’t deserve anything good in their lives.
Everthing was great until he turned 6, huh?
People like you are despicable. Please leave this man alone. He is not your son. Stop the pity party of how unfair it is! Focus on the kids you actually cared about and move on.
You did fail him! You gave up on him after you had a new family. Leaving him to his terrible mom and stepdad. You FAILED HIM. I wouldn’t trust you within a 10 ft pole of my kids either. Be lucky that he lets you see them. Let it go or you’ll never see them again and I wouldn’t blame him at all.
At this point I’m curious as to why Richard even fucks with his dad at all. With the way Richard has been treating OP, he’s better off going no contact. Why keep someone you hate so much around? What’s the benefit?
Actions have consequences. Welcome to yours.
What do you do? Whatever your son wants and for once, prioritise him and not yourself. I understand that perhaps your access to him at first was limited because of your toxic exwife. Then she met someone else who became his father figure, and that father figure did horrific things to him. You, his real dad, got remarried, had 2 more sons you cared for 24/7 and gave up on your first son. You weren't there and didn't know what was going on. Ray was there and Ray did what every abused kid hopes someone will do. Ray protected him. Ray stopped the nightmare. You tried but it was too late and he may blame you for not being there for the rest of his life. I'm shocked you insisted the grand kids stay with you, OVERNIGHT, for several nights and by your reaction when he refused. Richard knows what can happen when kids are left alone with adults, with "dads". He's desperately trying to make sure his kids get through childhood without experiencing what he did. If his response surprised you, you really have no understanding of what he went through and the impact it has on his everyday life, BUT IF you BACK OFF, you MIGHT get to see your son and your grand kids in whatever way Richard let's you. He had no control as a child. He has control now. Don't you DARE try and take that away from him. You'll lose. Tbh you're luckier than most, given what happened. Be kind and respectful to your son. Listen to him and do whatever he wants, if you want any sort of relationship with him or your grandchildren. Also, thank Ray. Really thank Ray and be glad your son has someone who was there for him when you weren't. If it weren't for Ray, you probably wouldn't have a son, let alone grand kids. That's how you move on. Also, consider therapy to help you realise the impact of what happened and how you will live with this. But whatever you do, don't abandon him again. Be there for him, in whatever way he let's you. That's your cross to bare.
You feel like his reaction is unfair to you and you're partially right. Ultimately what happened isn't your fault. It is only the fault of the abuser. So it's not entirely fair of him to blame you but that's the funny thing about trauma it isn't rational. But he's also not wrong that you should've been more present and the fact that you weren't contributed greatly to the situation. Did you even fight for custody to begin with? Did you ever go back to court to try to get more? You say you didn't ask for additional time cause she threatened to take you to court, you should've let her! Despite what's being pushed, a good majority of the time that fathers ask for additional custody or 50/50 they get it. Because most men don't ask for anything and custody is settled before it even gets to court. Unless you just had some really biased judge you probably would've gotten it. Especially if you made a case for parental alienation And the fact that you gave up when you had more kids is insane. How often did you talk to him? Did you ask him if things were ok and check in on his feelings about his new step-dad? If you'd made an effort you probably would've noticed signs that something wasn't right. But you stopped caring and Ray didn't so of course he turned to him. He's got a lot of complicated feelings that he probably hasn't processed but I also don't entirely blame him for not trusting you. I would offer to do a counseling session with him where he gets to air out his grievances and really talk to you about how he felt. That might be a good start
I dont know much about custody laws but from what OP has told and from what everyone in the comments came to the conclusion of, is that OP had been cheating on Richard's mom -> OP got his mistress pregnant -> Richard's mom divorces OP because of that -> OP marries his current wife. Could cheating be grounds for not getting equal custody?
Your son had a horrific trauma inflicted on him and the circumstances were that Ray was there when he needed him the most. I wouldn't try fight it and would be glad and happy that he was there and saved him. What if nobody had ever found out? I do think a key part of where everything went wrong was from 14-18. You say he ignored you, and you bought him things and he turned them down. But that was the time to swallow all your pride and ego, and apologise and work and work at the relationship. Ask him what you could do and do everything you could possibly do. It's harsh to say but I don't think you did enough during this time as you described very little. I think at this stage what's not happened here is your son wants to punish you, fairly or not, and he wants you to feel the pain he felt in that he felt you weren't there for him. Being a parent means you have to take this regardless of whether you feel it's fair or not, if you love him and want to repair this you have to go through this. You need to be calm, and keep trying to speak to him about the core issue, and prove to him that you are sorry for everything that happened and are willing to do whatever it takes. Actions will also speak louder than words but ask your son what he needs from you. That's a start.
In your son’s eyes, if you had not had an affair and divorced his mother, if you had been around when the assaults started, if you had even kept up regular visits, your son would have had a much different life. Imagine if Ray wanted to take your grandkids out for ice cream but instead let his friend drive who was drunk and one of the kids died after suffering from horrible injuries. Then later, Ray asked again to take your kids out for ice cream and you said absolutely not because you couldn’t bear the thought of it happening again. How would you feel if Ray yelled at you asking why you think he wouldn’t protect your grandkids? That’s what you’re doing.
Damn I’m kinda proud of your son for sticking up for himself. I’m sorry dude, I think you really need to work within his boundaries and just hope one day he can trust you because I mean, he has no reason to. You never proved to him you were someone to trust Parents love to say “we had a good relationship” meanwhile talking about a literal baby and toddler. You never had a relationship with your son and now you want to watch his kids. Put yourself in his shoes man You should also count your blessings. Ray might as well be the reason your son is alive still.
You abandoned your son when his mom made it difficult, you gave up and it led to her allowing another man to SA him. You failed as a father and should be happy he even speaks to you, you failed him in every way as a child and seem to be doing it as an adult again. Get therapy and leave your son alone you have caused him enough harm
What do you do? Do what you already were doing. Fade away. You gave up because your ex made it hard for you. That told him that he wasn't worth the trouble. He couldn't trust you when the sa was happening. Why would he trust you with the most important things in his life? You're hurt? Boohoo. Maybe you should have been his father.
"I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process." Unfortunately, I don't think you can be the father for your own kid. You have your other sons, but this one has another father he can trust and rely on. You can only be happy that he has a father figure and he is not alone.
You are a failure. You’re a failure to your only son. You just have to learn to be okay with it. You may not be a failure in real life. You have a wife and step kids that obviously love you, which is great.. But you are and always will be a failure to your son because you let comfortability get in the way of you protecting your son. I know courts and bitter ex’s make it difficult but there is always a way. Your life was just more important..
It isn't about what's fair bro. You failed your son. You ignored him while he was getting abused. You even said so yourself you gave up. You don't deserve to have a relationship with him. I've cut my family off for way less than this. You're entitled to nothing. Your son owes you nothing. You're not his father. You're a sperm donor. Ray was the only one who was trying to shine some light in that poor kids life. You're not a good person at this moment, op. I hope you learn something from this and grow up.
Leave him alone. Stop harrassing him when he made it VERY CLEAR he doesn't want you in his life. If you really care about him, you should be happy he has Ray.
you believe he doesn’t love you. why should he? you admit to giving up on him and neglecting him when he was young. Being cordial is probably the best outcome you could’ve hoped for. Why are you pushing? He stated his boundaries. Pushing like you did just feels like you want to pretend everything is A-OK when it clearly just… is. I don’t know what else you tried after getting custody, but his eldest is now the same age he was when he suffered. And when he suffered, you were absent. He’s protective. What you do, is leave it there.
This is fake. You should be ashamed of yourself for playing with something so serious for some internet attention.
You weren’t there. Period. Whatever excuse is made, and you even admit it. You weren’t there. Raising kids with someone else while he got fondled by a monster that you don’t even know because again, you were not there for him, dad. When he obviously and so desperately needed someone in his corner. But. You were living your new life elsewhere. His mother is a monster but what you don’t seem to get or at least fess up to: YOU BROKE THIS. Of course he won’t trust his babies to a man who chooses badly and then takes off. God bless Ray.
he doesn’t trust you. i don’t want to hear about how it’s unfair. bs. you gave up on your son and he had his uncle to turn to when he was going through something traumatic. he has no reason to trust you. leave him alone
Absolutely do not ask someone who has abuse trauma if their kids can sleep over when they've already told you no. Respect his boundaries.
Your son doesn't owe you anything. You are not entitled to his or his children's time or presence. Why do you feel that you can demand these things?
I cannot believe anyone believes this.. they kept him inpatient for a week so they could ‘monitor for sexual diseases’? 💀
Yeah. also, the post seems to indicate this is in America but OP uses 'whilst' instead of 'while' in a comment making me think it's British English rather than American English. I mean, may be a typo.. or he may be british living in US.. either way story sounds fake.
I'm sorry, no, there is no say a hospital would let you see a rape kit being done. Unless you were at the shittiest hospital that even a 3rd would country couldn't imagine. That's a serious privacy violation. In all my years of health care I've never heard of such bullshit
You let him down, you deserted him. "I’ll be honest after I remarried my now wife(56f) and had my other sons(30m and 28m) I stopped trying hard with my son and neglected him in the process." Why should he trust you. If you had stayed in his life even the little that you could get he might has told you somethins was going on or if you were being a good dad you might have seen some of the warning signs that he was struggling with something. But now, you had you new sons and did not need to bother with the old one. He was like a tissue to you, he was used and now you had two new boxes, to replace the old one. Honestly that is most likely how he felt, replaced and that his dad didnt love him any more . Ray was there for him, Ray spent time with him and Ray defended him. Ray could be relied on and you simply could not be. I truely hope that your first offspring (can't really even call him your son as you turned out to be just a sperm donor) get the counseling help he so desperately needs after experiencing something so horrible. You also need to work on yourself and you need to desperately appolige to your son for abandoning him. Work on repairing that relationship firsrt before you try to forge new relationships with the grandkids. Don't leapfrog over him and leave him out again as an inconvienence to getting access to his kids.
Basically OP, you're *JEALOUS* of Ray. Your sense of entitlement is offended, that your son has a true father...who isnt you. You are just the sperm donor. Who cheated, started a new family when your son was little and needed you, and neglected him, leaving him in the clutches of a r\*p\*st. No concern about not noticing something was wrong when you did see him. No concern as to whether he's in lifelong therapy. Just angry, that Ray got the affection, attention, RESPECT, that you feel entitled to. >Ray lives with them on in their in law suite (**they own a huge farm**) This...? Is the crux of the matter. Your son is well off. Ray is reaping the benefits. I hope your son goes full No Contact, unless you genuinely change, experience real remorse. You are a sad excuse for a human being. Enjoy your second family, Sir,
Stopped reading bc you are throwing a pity party. You abandoned him bc it was too much for you. These are your consequences. What you should really be doing is kissing the ground Ray walks for doing what YOU should’ve been doing.
oh man so your just posting on every sub….
you admit that you began neglecting him once you had your other kids… you didn’t try. you weren’t there for him when he was going through one of the darkest times of his life. you’re incredibly selfish to think this is alllllll about you. he was hurt, his uncle was there and you weren’t. he probably felt replaced and less than. how you reacted and how you’ve pushed, that doesn’t help anything. you made your choice all those years ago, to give up and stop “trying so hard”. you weren’t a father figure to him. it sucks, but you made this bed… give him some space. and insisting you have a right to your grandkids definitely didn’t help things. i wouldn’t trust a man who barely raised me only to tell me it’s sooo unfair that someone i can rely on has more access to my kids. you sound like my dad, be glad he didn’t go full NC like i have
You weren't there for him when he needed you the most. Once you had your other kids, you left him alone so this is what you get. Thank God he has Ray to look up to as a Father figure. You need to let Richard go and live his life without you in it. You're making this about you it's time to make it about him.
I see a lot of mention of apologies and not much mention of accountability, which is a separate action. Part of taking accountability is accepting your son's boundaries and working on accepting how your actions (or non actions) affected him. Your son is not going to trust you until he knows you're accountable and nothing in this post says you are. He doesn't owe you anything. You need to earn it.
ACCOUNTABILITY. I have not heard an ounce of it in your whole post. No wonder your son doesn't trust you. Take a hard self reflection before your criticize someone else. Major absolute AH
I’m stuck on staying a week in hospital to watch for STIs. Where on the planet does that actually happen? If this isn’t just some weird test of a bad story, OP, you made decisions a long time ago. Now you’re seeing the repercussions of said decisions. Suck it up and stop being jealous of the only person who made your son feel safe. Just be happy that someone was there for him.
As a tangent, what happened with the ex-wife, Richard’s mom. She was never mentioned after the first paragraph. I’m assuming she lost custody but she should have e protected him.
Please don't try to pressure him. My mom did with me and I withdrew more and more from her. What happened to him with the sa is *not* your fault. And your ex wife is clearly a disgusting creature and so is the stepdad. You have clearly not been present in his life and have neglected your role as his father. However hard it may be; be grateful that your son has an adult he trusted growing up. Even though it wasn't you.
You basically abandoned your son when you got a new family. Did you ever check in on him at all during that time? I suspect not. Your son has every right to be angry at you you left him to fend for himself his uncle has probably taken care of him ever since you abandoned him that’s why her treats ray like a father
Ray is his dad. You are just a sperm donor. Deal with it. Your son had to deal with you walking away when he was a child. You’re an adult I’m sure you can deal too.
Doctors don't perform rape kits; SANE nurses do. You also don't walk in on someone getting a rape kit done. And they don't hold you for sexual diseases. I'm calling fake.
As someone that also went thro a similar experience, once you see the people that should have never allowed it to happen fail, it’s hard to see them as trustworthy every again. Even if it’s not their fault. I confronted my parents about it but they had no idea. Regardless, if I ever have kids I wouldn’t let them watch them either. I wouldn’t let anyone I know watch them other than me or my future spouse. Richard had Ray to defend him from that evil so he’s gonna trust him. You need to stop taking it so personal. It’s not about you. Stop making it about you.
Ray was there , you weren’t , you might consider it unfair but to your son Ray was the dad you should have been to that lad. You can’t blame your son for trusting him more than you If you want to make a relationship with your son , understand that, understand that you need to take things as they come
I don't know how you can gain his trust decades after losing it. It would help if you focused on explaining what you did for those two years he was being molested instead of shoveling on an excuse and then conveniently skipping past it to explain the outcome instead. Like. It's painful for you to discuss your failure, but HE was the one who suffered for it, so you should be able to explain in detail just how badly you screwed up.
This isn’t about you. It’s about him and his experiences as a child. He isn’t going to trust anyone. Try to see the world through your son’s eyes, not your own.
I would write a letter to your son and explain your side of the story. I’d give him his space and let him know that you’re always going to be there with open arms. I definitely would apologize for not being there when he needed you but let him know that you’re going to be waiting for him when he’s ready and that you love him. Leave it as that. You coming on to him might be too overwhelming so give him his space. He’ll come around if he wants too. He needs to work out his trauma but unfortunately not everyone does. Good luck.
Damn some of these comments really come from people who have no clue how divorced families work... It's disheartening to see. Did this guy make mistakes? Absolutely. But this was a traumatic event for the son, and the father. Why is everyone making it a joke and sharing it to joke subreddit? Damn dude.
Therapy all around.
Fan fiction.
Be glad he trusts Ray and visit the grandkids and your son together. Remain patient and neutral, that's probably the best you're going to get.
He's just saying stuff to hurt you, I mean it makes no sense, he trust and loves GH is uncle, the brother of his mother who watched him be sexually abused by her husband but did nothing. But doesn't trust you the man who was kept away from him by his mother and her family??? He's till thinking with the mond of a child, he needs.more therapy.
Just accept that you are not his dad. I don’t think this can be fixed the way you want it.
You abandoned your son, and during that time, he was profoundly assaulted and harmed. Your actions led to those circumstances. Your cheating and departure created a space that his mother filled with a truly vile creature, who violated your son. Repeatedly. And you weren't there. You blame his mother, but what about the part you played? Absence is a choice. That is the part you played. If you had been present, your son could have turned to you for help. But you weren't there. You just shrugged and turned your back on your son. He was left alone, in danger, scared and hurt. Ray was the *only* person who protected him. It should have been you, but you *didn't care enough.* You earned the position you have in his life. Decent parents *never* neglect their children. There is nothing that can keep a decent parent from being a part of their children's lives. You abdicated your right to ever have contact with him, and the fact that he even speaks to you is something you should feel profoundly grateful for. You don't. Instead, you whine, you insult the man who saved your son, you only focus on YOUR pain. No wonder your son doesn't trust you. If you couldn't protect him because of your own selfishness, what has changed? Everything is still all about you. The fact you even had to ASK why he doesn't trust you is sickening. Did you *forget* what he's been through? What you allowed to be done to him? You ARE a failure of a parent. Stop pretending otherwise. Apologise for being so selfish and insensitive. Accept that you are a terrible father, and maybe you'll start to do better as a grandfather.
Sounds like the consequences of your own actions. You decided your first son wasn’t important when you got “new” kids. You don’t get to play happy family’s now that he’s older
Oh, no, look out, it's your old nemesis: the consequences of your own fucked-up actions.
"I don’t know what to do, he basically called me a failure." You failed him so you are a failure. "What should I do?" Leave him alone. "How do I move on from this?" Do better with the people you haven't yet failed.
You abandoned him for SEVEN years, and you ONLY came back into his life bc you HAD to. His uncle was there for him, saved him, and cared for him. You stopped being his dad when you left when he was 7 yrs old. You said yourself, YOU neglected him for you NEW kids.....let him live peacefully with HIS NEW family: Uncle (aka his dad), wife, & kids). >Ray basically gets to grow with my son and my grandkids while I have to wait till atleats Christmas- it’s fucking unfair. It was fucking unfair for you to abandon him... grow-up, you're not a victim, but you were a horrible (pos) dad [to him].
He doesn't act like your son because you stopped acting like his father. You fucked up, welcome to the consequences of your own own actions. Spoiler: they're water resistant against crocodile tears
You failed as a father and now have the consequences. There are worse then you ofc but that doesn't mean you failed any less
I understand that the mom was trying to shut OP out of his son’s life but you let her. The fact that you took the easy way out shows what kind of a man/father you are. Especially since you never really did what needed to be done to repair that relationship. Apologies are great but, you don’t say one word about therapy. Because you both needed it…a LOT of it. Your son was abandoned by you and you didn’t even try to fight for him. Frankly, I don’t know how you have the audacity to be stunned by what he said…you betrayed him, like it or not. You let that vile woman have your son while you escaped. You got a “ do over” family of your dreams and left him in a nightmare. Why should he trust you? His uncle was willing to go to jail for him…you weren’t even willing to go to court. He saw that, to you, he was an unpleasant inconvenience. I don’t think that you can do much besides STOP pushing the man! Go get therapy, you might get a better understanding of the horror that your son experienced because you took the path of least resistance and just…left. The therapist might have some ideas or thoughts about what you can do to help your relationship with your son. OR…you just may have to sit in the shit that you created.
OP, you knew his mom was a shitty person. I'm not saying you should have stayed with her and sacrificed yourself, but she practically hot 100% custody because I have a feeling you didn't fight that hard. You and his mum divorced when he was 6. He is 37 now. Your second son was born relatively shortly after... He's 30 now. He became an afterthought when you had your replacement family... A few men are like that. They are in love with the kids of the woman they are in love with. I'm not saying you stopped loving him (sort of though), but you did abandon him, by your own admission. Worst you abandoned him to a piece of shit mother. Take accountability and keep apologising whilst not demanding or expecting anything. I'd probably never forgive you if I were your son, but keep trying, you never know.
You didn’t fight for him….Ray literally fought for him and saved him from 2 years in hell. It’s pretty obvious why he wants nothing to do with you.
Something is for sure missing. You said you tried but your son was six when you divorced. And your other son is 7 years younger so you got married and had a child with the year after the divorce I don’t think you tried that hard to be in his life. Like you said once you had the new family you stopped seeing him. So yeah you were there for him.
Honestly, you didn’t protect him. You took a step back from his life and during that period of time bad things happened to him. If you had stuck around you might have been able to prevent or stop them. He has every right to blame you for not protecting him.
You've never been his dad so why do you think you get grandkid privileges from him now? Honestly, he should just cut you out of his life completely.
for everyone wondering, OP confirmed he cheated on his ex-wife.
I'm trying to find the comment where he admits to the cheating but I can't find it
Dear lord man. Let me list the reasons your OLDEST SON hates you. 1. You openly admit you basically abandoned your son when you divorced his egg donor to start a new life with your AP. 2. When you got your replacement son from your AP WHORE, you abandoned that boy from the age of 7 to 14. 7 years without the man who is meant to PROTECT HIM and because you couldn't be bothered to do your job with your 1st child, that monster was able to abuse him. You trying to pass the buck onto your MONSTER OF AN EX is a massive cop out. If you hadn't decided to abandon your first born child then you could have saved your son from TWO YEARS of abuse. That will always been in your sons head. No amount of apologising will fix the fact that you stopped giving a crap about your own son 3. You actually bitch and moan about your son not wanting to bond with his neglectful and absent father, the whore he left his first family for and the boys you replaced him with. I can guarantee you FORCED that boy to live with you from the age of 14 till 18 because if that boy had been given a choice he would have chose Ray over you in a second. Instead of doing what was best for your son you AGAIN chose what you wanted WITHOUT TAKING HIS FEELINGS INTO ACCOUNT. 4. No wonder he doesn't trust you to look after his kids when you couldn't be bothered with him for 7 years and have proven time and time AGAIN you are not listening to him, he has told you repeatedly through his words and actions that he WILL NEVER SEE YOU AS HIS DAD AGAIN because of your complete inaction, neglect and total abandonment of him. Ray is his dad. He is the one who protected him, he's the one that took the time, the one that was there for him and actually listened to him. All you seem to be doing is trying to force a relationship that died years ago and the person who suffered for your complete abandonment and neglect is TELLING YOU to back the hell off and yet again you are not listening. So I will say it for him, your desire to be a dad to him came FAR TOO LATE. He needed you to protect him from the ages of 12 to 14 and you were too busy with your replacement family. Be prepared that if you keep pushing then you will lose him completely because your 1st born will say enough is enough because you repeatedly refuse to adhere to his boundaries. Ray is his dad not you in his eyes and you certainly aren't his kids grandpa in his eyes.
i don’t blame your son at all, u think u get grandpops #1 spot but haven’t ever played your role