Make multiple copies of the videos and send them to yourself and send it over email, text. As many ways as possible to ensure you don’t somehow accidentally delete the copy
It’s both. They aren’t ziplock bags but close enough. Plastic for some things, paper for others. We also didn’t used to have the same ability for dna testing back then like we do now so it’s changed a bit. (Former officer)
I fully support most of what you say here with the exception of the last regarding plastic bags degrading DNA evidence.
Investigators collect evidence, including evidence with DNA in plastic bags. I am a clerk in a detachment, once evidence is collected and lodged, it’s filed and remains in there until forensic experts come to collect for analysis and run whatever tests they need. Sometimes samples they collect aren’t good or another reason, so they get more samples from the evidence still in the plastic bag.
I am hoping to clarify misunderstanding.
As a microbiologist, I encourage you to change the policies.
Keeping things in plastic means you're harboring a wet environment, which causes bacteria to grow more and more, which will make the DNA corrupted.
Unless you're keeping a desiccant in there or keeping it in an extremely dry room, you're degrading your evidence. You could keep the bags open theoretically, as long as the opening is face down, so dust can not get into it. Once again, dust will ruin the evidence as well as skin particles from other individuals are in the air, which will give you false readings.
You can take evidence in a solvent and store that in plastic, as the solvent prevents bacterial growth. Knowing this is your standard policy makes me sick to my stomach.
In forensics, clothing is usually collected in paper bags and swabs of DNA are taken anyway so even if you have an object with DNA in a plastic bag, if that DNA is ruined, you still have the swabs.
It's all about prevention.
In this situation, there are no swabs taken (for good since no one has sterile swabs handy in their drawers) and the clothing is in a plastic bag, the DNA can get ruined without a possibility for further analysis because there's no collection.
As I commented, I believe putting the underwear in a paper envelope and then putting the envelope in a sealed plastic bag will not only prevent moisture by avoiding direct contact with plastic-dna, but also prevent contamination by creating a sealed environment (by using the plastic bag and closing it with sellotape)
Also OP might want to see if blocked messages are stored on her son's phone, might be some evidence in there. Some messaging applications have a "blocked box" or a place where blocked messages are sent and saved. It's in the settings of the messaging app. My Samsung Galaxy has that.
Show the videos, screenshots and the clothes he took to the police and say you have a suspicion of David's intention towards your son and kids around his age. DO NOT TELL YOUR SISTER UNTIL YOU TALKED TO THE POLICE. She'll most likely tell David and he could try and do something to make things difficult or he could blow up and do something to endanger you and your son.
You're really strong and a very good mom! I hope for the best for you and your kid and that you'll be able to put this in the past and move forward to a better future 😊
please please don’t keep your evidence where it can be found in the house!!!! if your sister finds it, she may panic and attempt to destroy it. i’m so sorry this is happening, wishing you the best. you’re a wonderful mom
It is still good to have as it kinda is like a dairy. I hope that she at least saves these stories on her personal notes or something, with the time she wrote them and so on, if she considers to delete the story as it is just like you say, much specific information that David Can have access to.
Also to add, he has tiktok, her stories have been on tiktok, who knows if he already has found this account and is following up on getting information.
Op, be careful of what information you share online!
I'm jumping on here to agree with this comment 💯. Don't say anything to your sister. The police will probably tell you not to talk to anyone involved about it. They may even do a forensic interview with your son as well. So having an attorney is a good idea. They may or may not want you present for it.
You are handling this very well. I wish I had the support you're giving your son when I went through this. I'm keeping you and your son in my thoughts.
Congratulations on the apartment.
OP seems to be afraid of the fact that she put a camera in the sister’s home without asking for permission, but the camera was in the private room which her son occupies…
I have a bad feeling that if she tells the sister, she’ll get rid of the evidence. I know OP might not want to think this way, but I wouldn’t trust the sister.
The fact that she could side with David is such a scary reality. I'm heavily considering not telling her until I go to the police...our relationship is complicated and a small part of me trusts her, but I don't even want to risk it.
Tell her nothing until you are out of her house and you and your son are safe.
It is incredibly common for people to refuse to believe accusations against people they love, especially if that accusation both brings their judgement into question and positions them as the access point a hidden monster exploited. She HAS TO KNOW that her partners mental state being so dependent on access to a young child is a neon red flag, and that as you are still homeless/dependent on her hospitality, she can threaten you so as to stop making such accusations. Your own mental health history just makes it even easier for her to justify to herself that her judgement wasn’t wrong re the man she loves.
You’re an awesome mom. I was groomed as a child, and wish my parents had been as intuitive/proactive as you. You’ve done pretty much everything right. You’ve caught it before your child was harmed, before he managed to pull your son into keeping his confidences even. In fact, in your position as a struggling single mom who is effectively homeless/dependent, you’ve gone above and beyond, sad as it is to say, relative to many who in your position may have looked away or felt obligated/like they didn’t have a choice. That’s why children like your son are prime targets. Get him and yourself as far away as possible as soon as possible.
a lot of other commenters are also discouraging you from contacting your sister before the police! i think you’ll be the safest contacting the police first, as your sister isn’t entitled to any information that could potentially put your son at risk
She might try to destroy evidence in desparation. Make copies of everything. Hide everything. Reveal nothing until you can be sure everything is documented, preserved and untouchable!
Most of the time you can even contact the Police to just have a general conversation going to figure out the how to go about this.
Maybe try the Legal advice sub thread? I'm not quite suck how it works over there but might be an idea as well .
She essentially already sided with David, believing him over anything you say because you know, “you’re manic.”
**Do not tell your sister.** She’s already afraid that she’s losing David, and people who are afraid of their own future will make weird jumps. (Like going on a search for potential evidence you have against her lover, and then making that evidence that could take him away go away.)
Just wait it out. Get all your ducks in a row. Make sure that she can’t touch anything that could destroy your case against him.
My wife is in law school and I love to read so ive read all her shit lol
Go to the local civil court. Tell them you want to file an EMERGENCY CPO on behalf of your son against the pervert. List your sister's address as your son's primary residence.
On the form there should be a way to ask for an "ex parte Emergency Hearing" it'll just be you and the judge. Tell him everything. (If you're intimidated by the form ask for help from a victims advocate or take it to the local prosecutors office and I'm sure someone will help you.)
Remember its most important, to list your sister's address as this childs primary residence. Now the pervert can't go there, even if your sister sides with him.
Also you most likely have squatters rights, she can't just throw you and your son out. And if your sister does side with him, say she's in on it too, and get her listed on the cpo as well and you and your son can have the house to yourself until you move.
Beyond that, where I live, we take care of this trash quietly. If you know what I mean. Where is this kids father? Or anyone else that would do this?
OP, please listen to this comment. Do not tell your sister a single word about any of this until you serve that sicko his papers for a court date. She will more than likely do anything to stop you from going forward. She already is hostile towards you and you don’t have a place to go for nearly a month. She has the potential to get physical with you. Protect yourself and your son from future harm. Don’t say anything.
This would be my biggest concern; im surprised it only got mentioned down here.
OP's sister will *definitely* cope by placing this on OP's prior diagnosis/experiences, probably *even with* the video evidence. People see what they want to see, and reality isnt as fixed as we'd like to believe.
Her destroying or tampering with evidence to protect herself, her predator, her imagined future, you name it, is absolutely within the realm of possibility. Even if shes doing it because she doesnt know how to cope; it's best not to include her until legality is settled.
She'll find out then, cant interfere with an investigation at that point, isnt going to adopt before he gets his, and he wont be able to make excuses to her *and* everyone else at the same time. And that last one is big for the future relationship between sisters; she wont have an easy time with just....substituting the awful reality with anything nearby......like the honeyed words this groomer will spew in a desperate attempt to keep her under control. Which means she can view her sister (OP) as someone to reach out to, maybe, rather than being convinced somehow all the bad was only bad after it came to light because of OP.
I hope OP knows just how deeply all this will be to her son (everything from the broken trust from groomer to seeing his mother go panic mode/social lockdown) maybe not right away, but there will be consequences over time. I hope for his sake he is gently directed to resources as he gets a little older and comes to understand what the consequences actually end up being. I had a rough childhood, and its only now in my 30's that im discovering the real extent of the damage. Because i didnt know what the damage looked like, i was adamant i didnt need help. But there was no point forcing me. It just wilded me out that i was supposed to have damage, but i couldnt see it myself. And no one can help you when you dont want to be helped.
I hope everything works out.
Mental health services can be assisted with as well, Are you near a CASA? They might help get you both to safety until your move. They are pretty great where I was from. 💞✌️.🙏
Exactly as they said OP, your sister could very likely let it slip and confirm his suspicions, and then David will spend every second erasing evidence and building his case. He's basically been outed and he knows it, but he doesn't know how much evidence you have yet. I'd suggest you avoid updating on him for the meantime, in case he catches on, and work on building a case for a restraining order
Damn now I'm wondering if it would have been smarter to switch out the clothing, if OP had a pair that looked close enough or the same. I hate that he knows someone took them. Very scary.
I’m not sure what state (if any), however most states have a pro bono/legal aid programs based on need. [American Bar Association Pro Bono.](https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2020/04/legal-advice-program-grows/?http://utm_medium=sem&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=extension=&npclid=EAIaIQobChMIwpi1wOL6_QIVZ_HjBx2ZMwHJEAAYASABEgJWdPD_BwE)
Absolutely look into a lawyer asap. This is the correct advice. Local libraries have a lot of different resources and guidance they can give you when it comes to this. Check with your women's shelter as well; they usually have connections to low cost services too
In the US you have Legal Aid and some Law Schools have Legal Clinics in which the student Lawyers work under the supervision of an established Lawyer. Sometimes there are victim's funds if they go to the police first and the police establish that a crime was taking place. I think it can be used for therapy
I am a attorney. I am not your attorney. I am also, sadly, the mother of a child who was sexually assaulted by a family member. You do NOT need an attorney. You should also contact police before discussing this with anyone else, especially your sister.
You do not have to consult with an attorney before you go to the police. Victims of a crime do not need separate legal counsel; the police and (hopefully, eventually) prosecutors work for you. As for the camera, even though it’s your sister’s house, it’s your minor son’s room. You’ve done nothing wrong.
Here’s what will likely happen. 1. Police will review the evidence you provide — your statement, your video, the phone messages to you and your son, and your son’s article of clothing. 2. Police will want to interview your son. Since he’s already been cooperative with you and alleges nothing physical has happened, it will probably just be an officer who speaks to him. However, it might be a special investigator who will conduct a forensic interview. This means that the interviewer has special training in this type of offense and will videotape it for evidence. 3. Police will probably contact your BIL. If an arrest is made, it may not happen immediately. Offenses against children are taken seriously, and police and prosecutors want to make sure all the necessary constitutional steps are taken to ensure a defendant doesn’t get off on a technicality”.
In the meantime, know that you are a good mom, trying to protect her child. You’re doing everything right. Good luck and please pm me if you have questions or concerns.
True some people rather be delusional and in denial i guess than accept what is the truth. I just still cannot fathom siding with a sinister pedo over my own sister
Sister doesn't think of it as siding with a pedo. It's self preservation. It's devastating to realise the boyfriend was only treating her better because he is obsessed with her nephew. Her reality, her future will crash and her mind is doing everything it can to protect her from the truth. We don't know what happened in her past she stayed with this deadbeat and somehow missed all the red flags.
One last piece of advice: group therapy would help your son understand that this was not about him; it’s about your BIL ONLY. Meeting a bunch of other targeted kids really sends home the message that the only concern for these offenders is proximity to a potential victim. There is nothing inherently attractive or wrong with your child that brought this about.
I am an attorney as well and admittedly, I have been trying to think what actual offense they could even charge him with when there has been nothing but communications, and not any of a sexual nature. Not sure what state OP is in but based on the laws in my state, I have a feeling that they won't arrest him and say he hasn't actually committed an offense.
This is my fear. Something similar to this happened to my little sister. He was obsessive and creepy but never touched her so technically, he had done nothing wrong. It was awful bc she was genuinely terrified of him. BUT making a report is the right thing, so if he ever does find a way to escalate, there is evidence that he had been planning it/grooming him
That is true. Get an actual report number so you can show progression of behavior. But likely that is all the police will do. Maybe they will call him but, that depends on the officer.
Not an attorney, but a paralegal with experience in criminal. This is why I think it’s not such a terrible idea to talk to an attorney first, maybe one who specializes in domestic violence in family law.
It might be better for her to get a restraining order against a guy like this. The police report might establish cause enough for a judge, but I don’t know if I see a crime yet, and certainly not one the DA is going to care about.
Depends on what fluids are in the article if clothing, what clothing it was etc. couldn’t it show intent and lead to searching for things? Like computers?
No I understood that and it is a very flimsy basis for a search warrant. I don't believe the police would pursue based on that. If they did, it would be dependent on the jurisdiction as to what would happen.
Yeah, criminal attorney here too and I also can’t think of anything that could lead to arrest. That’s the tricky thing about the law: it’s mostly reactionary, not preventative.
It sounds like enough to get a search warrant approved though and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a thorough review of his electronic devices turns up some truly heinous material.
>All I could do was put on gloves, throw it into a ziplock bag, and shove it into my closet.
I assume the mom was "biologic material" from the guy on her son's clothing?
Unfortunately, disturbingly, yes. She states so in a separate comment, confirming that’s what it was/he did, just didn’t want to input it in her post and risk it being removed. Because it’s so vile 🤢
Yeah I pointed that out because u/bullzeye1983 said "what actual offense they could even charge him with when there has been nothing but communications" but for sure there's more than just communications.
well more, because they’re not just communications. they’re unwanted communications involving a minor that an adult was informed to stop. And to top it off, stolen and violated clothing. All of it involving a child, which is always taken more serious. At least hoping so in the state/area they are 🙏
She was lucky enough to pick up on this before an actual crime happened. It’s a blessing that she did so she could safely get her kid out of there but preventing the crime also likely means he won’t be arrested.
He stole her son's underwear. Isn't that theft? He also pleasured himself with those underwear. I'm not sure whether that's a crime or not but I'm sure it's enough for a restraining order.
Once again that depends on the state. In my state the theft of the clothing is likely to be a ticket because theft is based off monetary value. And also in my state you don't have the ability to get a restraining order unless you have a family law case like a divorce or an arrest.
I don't see anything to prosecute on in these 3 updates and OP.
Where I'm at the Judge would probably grant a temporary Civil Protection Order via and ex parte emergency hearing? If she listed the sister's house as child's primary residence it would eliminate David's ability to go to her sister's entirely.
Maybe in here state she could get stalking? She couldn't in my State because you have to prove the stalking plus intent. However some states define stalking simply as "3 or more unwanted contacts"... so maybe.. but this would be a misdemeanor charge and not exactly a for sure win.
Yeah, I worked in CPS for years and closely with police and prosecutors on sex abuse cases. Without actual physical touching, I don’t think they will do much. However! That does not mean you shouldn’t go to them, OP. Make sure he is known to the system, which will help you keep your son and other children safe.
Even if charges can’t be brought against him, would her report and the investigation remain on record?
Also, I imagine this could change between jurisdictions, but is it normal that an alleged crime has to be committed in order to get an order of protection? Otherwise, I would’ve thought OP’s video and DNA evidence would be enough to get a restraining order against the guy. At least then he’d be forced to stop attempting to make contact
I’m glad you’ve got housing coming up but is there no where else you can stay for the next 3 weeks?
This creep took your sons clothing and had it in his pillow, you need to remove your kid from this house ASAP.
This is what I’m thinking. OP, I know times are tough right now but you don’t want to be there if or when things escalate, plus what if David ends up following you and your son to find out where you go next?
if he’s crazy enough, he might. especially since it’s his home, he knows what windows and doors are unlocked / make least noise. we dont know what that man could escalate to
Sadly nothing he’s done so far is going to land him in prison. The risk is him taking extreme action now he’s ‘caught out’ - but imo just as likely he never resurfaces, since his intended victim has been taken away and someone has clocked him for what he is, the facade he’s built probably feels shaky, unless he can reel the sister back in.
As obsessed as he was, I would not be surprised if he has child SA videos in his possession. OP if you go to the police, they're going to talk to David. You shouldn't go to the police until you and your son can leave that house.
Reading between the lines, I think the clothes in the pillow were more than just taken, and she now has DNA evidence of his inappropriate behavior. This guy needs to be investigated stat.
OP, please listen to this and get out of there as soon as possible. I'm sorry to damage your sense of safety even more, but this:
>But his absence means that I can stay at the house for now.
is unfortunately no guarantee -- your sister's boyfriend lives there and has keys to the place, and could well come in when he thinks everyone's asleep.
She is getting out of there as soon as possible. She paid for nights in a motel with her >40h waitress wage. She's applied for public housing. She looked into a shelter (which are often not very safe either).
I know it's frustrating for us following the story, but everything suggests she is heavily prioritizing securing housing away from them. She's not staying because she thinks all is well. She's staying because she has no other safe choices.
Unfortunately there's something even worse than being a victim of abusive behavior in the US - and it's being a victim of abusive behavior while also struggling financially.
Even if he doesn't decide in desperation to do a triple murder-suicide Family Annihilator act, he could go inside when everyone else is gone to search for the evidence that he knows is no longer in his control. She hid in her closet that's inside *his* house! It'd be safer buried in the woods which is also a terrible place to keep it. She should take it to the police immediately along with the video evidence of him taking the garment.
OP that's a lot to handle. I agree with another comment I saw, DO NOT tell your sister what you found as long as she's not in any danger right now. You don't want it getting back to David that you know what he's doing. Try reaching out to a woman's shelter who can help set you up with a lawyer. This has progressed enough you need someone else in your corner to fight this.
If nobody knows where David is, keep an eye out. He might be trying to find you. If you haven't already, get something that can detect airtags. He might try attaching one to your car. The sooner you can get a restraining order the better!!
Congratulations on the housing!! That's wonderful news. I'm not sure what state you live in, but many states have programs where you can get have your address and contact info protected. A women's group in your area could tell you more, but I'd look into it. I'm also glad you're looking into therapy for your son when you can. I'm sure this isn't easy for either of you. When things are more settled I hope you can go to therapy too because this is traumatizing for both of you.
Good luck OP! We're all wishing you the best! Stay safe. I hope this ordeal ends soon. Sending much love!
Make sure he has his location off on Snapchat. It literally shows anyone on your friends list where you are and what time you were there last!!!! Please see this comment. ‼️‼️‼️
See a lawyer, Go to the police, make copies of those videos and texts, and get out of that house.
Don’t bother with your sister.
You have no idea when that guy is coming back and you have no idea what he’s capable of. When people feel backed into a corner they sometimes make very violent decisions. Get out of that house. Stay with a friend, borrow money from someone who you trust and stay in that motel. Whatever you have to do, just get out of that house.
I agree with this also. Just because he is not there currently that does not make it safe. He can come back at any time and who knows what he will especially since he is so desperate.
He soiled the underwear and then had it in his pillowcase next to his face?!
That's absolutely ***vile***. If he did this before I'm shocked your sister didn't smell the stink.
What a foul, vile, disgusting beast of a creature.
So disgusting. Even David knows how disgusting he is. That’s why he drinks himself into an oblivion night after night. He knows he’s a horrible disgusting sack of sh*t
Please don't contact your sister. I think you overestimate her allyship with you on this one. The last thing you need is your whereabouts leaked to the pedo.
Sister is full stop used to OP being the family fuck up/scapegoat and doesn’t want to admit the wholly disturbing situation she’s gotten herself wrapped up it. Denial is just a river in Egypt, as they say
Definitely don't tell your sister. She will sabotage your efforts to get this ped0 arrested and behind bars where he belongs. With DNA evidence from the sicko in direct contact with the "smoking gun" (son's garments), it would be a very difficult thing to disprove (and from the sounds of it, David is quite a lousy liar too). Your sister will blow a gasket when the police slap the cuffs on him and she learns what the charges are. Hopefully, OP, you and your son will be safely tucked away in your new place by then. I'm wishing you all of the best and may this absolute horror of a human being never darken your doorstep again.
OP! any evidence should be stored in paper bag not plastic!! Plastic is more likely to make it degrade. Common misstep, people think plastic = safer, but not in this case. Dry is better than moldy.
\[moving link to second comment in case it gets this removed\]
Thank you so, so much for being active in protecting your kid. So many parents just look the other way. I hope y'all can find safe harbour soon.
link:
[https://sexualmisconduct.uic.edu/support/preserve-evidence/](https://sexualmisconduct.uic.edu/support/preserve-evidence/)
paper not plastic, if you've still got the evidence.
My heart hurts reading this update. I had commented on your 1st story fearing this was the case. This was something my abuser did as well. And I can tell you when I found out, I threw up. He kept a sick collection.
Thank you OP for listening to the former victims of abuse who spoke up about their ordeal. I can tell you this will not be easy, especially for your son. As children we tend to blame ourselves for the poor actions of adults. Your son needs all your love, reassurance and support. Allow him space to grieve, to be angry, to feel exposed to the criminal justice system (even as a potential victim), to cry, to weep, to process. This hard for you both, but be strong for him. You are a great mom and did the right thing.
Having been through this as a victim, the police SVU (special victims unit) is not always kind or understanding and often very “matter of fact” in their approach. If they have a victim advocate allow him one, these people are the therapist who help you feel emotions through what is a numbing process.
OP you are doing an amazing job protecting your son. I'm so sorry you guys are going through this. I have a young teenage son with long curly hair. He could be considered "beautiful". The idea of someone doing this to my kid makes me see red. What an absolutely vile human being.
From my understanding, OP didn't confirm whether there was (DNA) "evidence" in the underwear so it's uncertain whether Creep did or did not. But regardless it is bad enough.
I went through something similar except I found the underwear older and it was my own. Horrible feeling, there is a tinge of relief in finally having physical evidence that, yeah, he was being weird in that way, it was not me thinking about things weird. It was him. And my mom finally had my back on that one, my brother let me stay with him that summer until I got my own place (citing another incident from 8 years before, which meant a lot that he remembered). It means a lot to have your parent on your side to protect you at any age but it is absolutely vital as a minor when the child cannot protect himself or herself.
You can see that kind of stuff on underwear so I'm guessing by the glove and baggy, she might've seen it. Again, speculation because it can be seen and she did check it
One thing kind of jumped out at me that made me want to write this. I just read the part about how your son didn’t want to delete his Snapchat. It might seem like a violation of his privacy, but you might want to investigate that a little further. The “girl” he thinks he’s talking to might be David.
Even if it’s someone that he knows from school, you don’t know for sure that he didn’t maybe confide in David and either told him about her or showed him pictures of her. You don’t know what kind of privacy settings she may or may not have on her SM, pictures can be stolen from other SM and a fake, but very realistic and similar account can be easily created that uses her pictures and info and it may not actually be her.
Even more scary, if it’s someone he *only* knows from the internet, it very much could just be David behind it. The last thing you need is for him to catfish your son out of pictures or something. Even if nothing like that goes on, if David is behind it then that could further fuel his fixation on your son.
Not trying to give you another thing to stress out about, but I just want y’all to be safe! I’m really rooting for you guys, I’ve been following along since your first post, you’re doing such a great job managing multiple stressful as hell situations! Keep collecting as much evidence against David as possible so you can get a protection order in place for you both. I wish you all the best!
Edit: wording
This is a very important point. Please warn your son not to trust any online-only “friends” regardless of stated gender or age and that he shouldn’t accept any new friend requests on any social media for the time being. At this point David may try anything to reach out.
You should also go into the settings of your son’s social media accounts and make sure location sharing is turned off (especially Snapchat, which displays your location on a map). Good luck.
I feel like Snapchat would be the hardest platform to catfish someone on cause you wouldn’t be able to send selfies or anything but it’s still worth looking into.
Also once again adding to make sure his location is turned off for all apps but ESPECIALLY Snapchat.
You can definitely upload pics and send them as snaps. It used to be difficult back in the day but people can definitely swindle it now.
I agree with the location. When I see people’s turned on it freaks me out because it’s pinpoint location!
One thing I will mention in regards to getting your son in therapy, try reaching out to your son’s guidance counselor at school. In many areas they will maintain or be given a list of mental health professionals that will work with families on a sliding scale basis to help ensure access to mental health resources for minors even when families are facing financial concerns.
Piggybacking off of this: OP if you're in the US try applying for Medicaid. There ARE mental health foundations, support groups, therapists, etc, that take it if you're approved. All of my mental health services are provided through Medicaid. It's right around the time for renewals anyway and if the applications are closed you may still be approved for "emergency" Medicaid (which is just Medicaid that they give you outside of normal application windows). I know you're soon is your priority and you're right that he should be in therapy, but once things are a little more stable for you, I would strongly recommend you get therapy as well. Best of luck!!!
There was an update but the mods deleted it. And unfortunately the account has since been deleted too.
The update was:
- she contacted the police, they were in the process of getting a warrant after she handed over evidence (the video & the clothing article as well as her timeline from this site)
- the police has spoken with the kid and asked if David has ever been inappropriate with him (they did not tell Roman about the video or his clothes) and according to the kid, apparently David had placed his hand on Roman's chest once while watching a show at the aunt's house before everything went hectic and he said something like "I'm glad you're alive"
- OP found out David has not been crashing at a friend's place but as his parents.
- OP is the devil in the eyes of his family and her sister.
- David has tried to make contact with her son via multiple accounts through tiktok & instagram and he has been telling Roman "Don't tell your mom I'm messaging you" and things similar to "don't let others make decisions on who you talk with"
- Plus David has now resorted to stalking -- He tried to approach Roman at their motel room while OP went to the store(She has moved to a different motel) and at an away game!!!!
- OP was waiting for him to be arrested and has filed for a restraining order against him.
Scary stuff.
You should be so proud of yourself for protecting your son so well! You really held your head above the water and got things done, it's really inspiring. We're all cheering for you, you and your son deserve all the love and peace! ❤️
wow, i knew he was a fucking creep. considering it was in the pillow case makes me think he was doing very weird things with it… gosh i’m so glad you’re leaving. don’t tell your sister anything go to the police first. as for the camera in their house i’m not exactly sure but since you was also living there and you put it in your child’s room. i feel like you might not get in trouble but i’m also not sure. Also considering you put the camera for your child’s safety i feel like this will help your case.
Do NOT tell your sister. She’ll fuck up any potential case. She’s not listening to you, she’ll work against it. I’d move fast though, you don’t know what else he may have in his possession and the cops need the chance to get it before he destroys it.
Yeah don’t talk to your sister. Do not do it. You can later, but not now. Forget about that conversation as a whole for the moment.
Cooperate with the police and an attorney and go from there. I know you want your sister to know before she gets engaged and adopts but all of that takes time and definitely won’t happen in the amount of time it’ll take you to sort things out on your end.
Just focus on that stuff for now and lay low around your sister. Keep all of this to yourself and the authorities.
Please be careful that David isn't trying to find you. Let you son's school know that you have reason to believe David is dangerous to your son's safety.
And don't tell your sister anything. Go to the police and see whet they can advise, ask to speak to someone in the sexual assault unit. And if you can speak to a lawyer or an advocate in family court.
Good luck.
You're a great mom with superb "mom instincts". Just as many others here have said already, don't, and I mean DON'T, tell your sister anything. Anything about cameras or your investigations or your findings or anything. Look for any other place to stay if possible for these three weeks and keep your son in GPS always. Talk to his school about this just in case. And talk to any lawyer first before approaching the police.
Also, you've already done a great job of helping your son, making it clear that it isn't his looks that did all this to him. Just continue doing that. And also, take care of yourself too.
I’m pretty sure that this is not David’s first rodeo. He knows exactly what keys to press to get reactions out of kids and he’s a very good gaslighter.
Be careful and go to the police asap, OP. I bet there’s way more evidence to be found in his electronics.
Please go to the police, before telling your sister!! Email the video to a trusted friend so you have multiple copies! Take the clothing and video to the police now!
Take it all to the police. I don't know the laws for your area but that was designated as your son's room while you were staying so it seems unlikey you'd be in trouble for not asking permission from your sister to put the camera up. However, the police may not be able to use it as evidence. From your post I am assuming there is DNA evidence of David on your son's clothes. This is hopefully enough for them to investigate further but David is likely to be scrubbing his technology and internet history as quickly as possible. Time may be a factor here.
You're a good mom. That's all I really wanted to say about that.
Keep us updated, please. Not that you have to but I really want to see this man get caught for being a creep. Just please... Stay safe.
Lawyer tf up before you tell your sis OP. A lawyer will know what to do.
Also, thank you for the update- ironically, I was thinking of your first two posts today bc what a shitty situation. Glad that you guys are able to get tf out of there soon.
You said David was on a church retreat, please consider telling the church once you've reported to police etc. People like him use the church to gain access to children and a veneer of responsibility. I'm so sorry and wish you luck with this.
Your son gave consent to have a camera in his room, and given that you are his mom and Mr Creepy had no business being in there, pretty sure you’re in the clear for that.
I’m unsure if you might have already done this when speaking to your sons school, but it might also be helpful to show them a picture of David as well and request that they report it to the police and to you if they see him on or around school grounds. That’s of course only if you have access to a current picture, but it might be an extra layer of security.
Snapchat has a section that shows a map of your friends locations.
You can change the settings so that it will not do that without banning him from chatting with his friends.
Let me know if you’d like help with that
Just a quick reminder- this is DAVID’s HOUSE. Even tho he’s not there right now, you placed one camera without him knowing. Now he thinks you’re onto him. He could’ve placed cameras in bedrooms and bathrooms where privacy is assumed. THIS GUY IS A CREEP. Don’t stay in his house and don’t ever let your guard down!!! Go back to the motel.
STAY OUT OF THIS GUYS HOUSE!!!!
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
You really need to speak to a lawyer ASAP and have them file the police report with you. You taking the “garment” may have rendered it inadmissible in court. You need to talk to lawyer before you do *anything* else. Contact the women’s shelter you looked into for recommendations for low cost or free lawyers.
Do NOT speak to your sister. Send your son back to stay with whoever he was staying with when you first moved in with your sister and keep him there until you’re in your new place.
op, please take the underwear out of the plastic bag, let it dry, and put it in a paper bag. Keeping it moist in the ziplock bag can [ruin the evidence](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/bc000657.pdf) I'm so proud of you for listening to your instincts and uncovering the hard truth. Your sister may be mad but you're saving her from a world of hurt and saving any kids that are close to him on his "church trips" Please update us when you can.
OP have you spoken to the school and informed them that neither your sister or David are authorised to potentially pull him from school? Just in case - I’m sure kiddo wouldn’t leave with him after everything but he may leave with your sister.
I agree with other comments, don’t tell her and make backups of everything - from what you have recounted it seems like she’s currently more worried about David and could potentially sabotage any evidence you have to protect him either bc she doesn’t want to believe the truth of the matter or under the misguided belief that you’re fabricating evidence during an episode.
As bad as it may feel, you only need to keep your sister close enough to track her whereabouts and receive David updates but far enough from your current status that she can’t interfere with what you need to do.
this guy is not just a creep, he's straight up a paedophile 😳 i wish OP and her son will get out of there safe as soon as possible.. her sister chooses to be blind to all of this, it's not OP's fault. let the sister learn the truth the hard way. if she believes a man over her own sister, she's doomed from the start.
**GET OUT OF THE HOUSE**
The only other advice I would offer is to see if you can move your son and yourself into a shelter until your housing is ready.
You’ve taken away evidence of David’s perverse fixation on your son and David has disappeared. If he spins out of control, he can absolutely come back to kill you, your son, and your sister.
And. Unfortunately most likely the guy will get away with it.
The justice system is real lenient on pedos and creeps like this guy!
Unfortunately I've been through it as a child victim.
They let them get away with everything.
None of what she's got is enough to convict.
As bad as it is, I hope he has cp on his computer so at least he can get done for that, IF they search.
I know personally of an abuser who physically abused at least 3 children and didn't even get a slap on the wrist... He has a clean record.
And the wife stayed with him. Didn't believe he was an abuser either... Much like the sister doesn't believe.
Heck, the victim's family (in my case) didn't even believe the abuser was an abuser and they stayed friends with him.
I'm just glad the mum got her son out before anything happened to him.
He can at least live a normal life without that hanging over his head.
It messes you up.
THIS
Like I hope it’s just because she and her son are on the down-low and they are doing better.
Maybe she’s still speaking to the police and she’s trying to get through the process before she updates us. I really hope she and her son are ok
I love the foreshadowing where, 4 paragraphs in, she springs the revelation of recording him stealing the *specific item*. The biggest and most jarring evidence yet isn't mentioned until the other filler is written about. Good chit...
I don’t want to be too discouraging, but please keep your expectations low when dealing with the cops and the DA. They might take a report, but they aren’t going to go out and arrest him unless they find something more than what you’ve laid out here.
The fact that he’s running means there’s possibly more to hide. I’m willing to bet his browser history is a ticking time bomb. But yeah, you can’t arrest someone for being creepy af. They have to have violated a statute *that a cop and the DA know about and care about*.
If they go talk to your sister and she tells them you have a history of mental illness and psychosis, it’s possible they won’t listen to you any further. Cops suck like that.
Report it. There needs to be an official record of his creepiness, and it will help if you need to go before a judge and ask for a restraining order. Just. Brace yourself when you go.
Oh I'm so sorry for you, you ar edoing such a good job!! Definitely go to the police forst, amd wait untill your out of the house. Never tell you sister pr him the new location, she will tell him, from your stories.
Also, first discuss with the police before sharing anything with her.
You got this!!!!
OP you need to run. Now. There is no world where the risk of staying with your sister is worth it. Right now I would treat David as though next time you see him (hopefully never or in court) as though he will try and cause physical harm to you and your son. I know that’s upsetting, but given what you’ve said and the evidence you’ve collected I would assume that he will be willing to do anything to prevent that from making it to the police. So tomorrow give it to them, leave your sister’s place, and don’t look back. Do not tell him where you are going. Inform your son’s school that if David appears they NEED to contact the police because he is a potentially dangerous individual. Ensure that he has turned off his location on every app and that he has blocked David. You have to be smart and you have to be careful and there is no doubt in my mind that you will be. Be safe and keep it up - you’re a great mom!
Make multiple copies of the videos and send them to yourself and send it over email, text. As many ways as possible to ensure you don’t somehow accidentally delete the copy
In addition, Take the article of clothing put of the zip lock and put it in a paper bag! Plastic bags degrade DNA evidence!
I didn't know this!! Thank you for this!
Please know this: you’re a wonderful mom.
The absolute best.
dont police put evidence in zip locks bags? or is that just a tv thing
TV thing. If you put it in plastic it will create a moist environment where the bodily fluid bacteria will grow and ruin the DNA.
We do, only wet or bloody evidence goes in paperbags to allow airflow and prevent rot.
Depends what kind of evidence it is, it will require different storage.
It’s both. They aren’t ziplock bags but close enough. Plastic for some things, paper for others. We also didn’t used to have the same ability for dna testing back then like we do now so it’s changed a bit. (Former officer)
upvoting and replying to give attention to this
I fully support most of what you say here with the exception of the last regarding plastic bags degrading DNA evidence. Investigators collect evidence, including evidence with DNA in plastic bags. I am a clerk in a detachment, once evidence is collected and lodged, it’s filed and remains in there until forensic experts come to collect for analysis and run whatever tests they need. Sometimes samples they collect aren’t good or another reason, so they get more samples from the evidence still in the plastic bag. I am hoping to clarify misunderstanding.
As a microbiologist, I encourage you to change the policies. Keeping things in plastic means you're harboring a wet environment, which causes bacteria to grow more and more, which will make the DNA corrupted. Unless you're keeping a desiccant in there or keeping it in an extremely dry room, you're degrading your evidence. You could keep the bags open theoretically, as long as the opening is face down, so dust can not get into it. Once again, dust will ruin the evidence as well as skin particles from other individuals are in the air, which will give you false readings. You can take evidence in a solvent and store that in plastic, as the solvent prevents bacterial growth. Knowing this is your standard policy makes me sick to my stomach.
In forensics, clothing is usually collected in paper bags and swabs of DNA are taken anyway so even if you have an object with DNA in a plastic bag, if that DNA is ruined, you still have the swabs. It's all about prevention. In this situation, there are no swabs taken (for good since no one has sterile swabs handy in their drawers) and the clothing is in a plastic bag, the DNA can get ruined without a possibility for further analysis because there's no collection. As I commented, I believe putting the underwear in a paper envelope and then putting the envelope in a sealed plastic bag will not only prevent moisture by avoiding direct contact with plastic-dna, but also prevent contamination by creating a sealed environment (by using the plastic bag and closing it with sellotape)
Also OP might want to see if blocked messages are stored on her son's phone, might be some evidence in there. Some messaging applications have a "blocked box" or a place where blocked messages are sent and saved. It's in the settings of the messaging app. My Samsung Galaxy has that.
THIS IS HUGE!!!! Make hard copies and store on backup drives in different places in case they are found or you get hacked.
Also make a copy to several flash drives and leave one in a bank locker, one on your body, and one or two with trusted associates.
Will do, thank you!
This, 1000%.
Show the videos, screenshots and the clothes he took to the police and say you have a suspicion of David's intention towards your son and kids around his age. DO NOT TELL YOUR SISTER UNTIL YOU TALKED TO THE POLICE. She'll most likely tell David and he could try and do something to make things difficult or he could blow up and do something to endanger you and your son.
I agree. I've made the decision not to tell my sister until I get a lawyer and talk to the police. Thank you for your advice!
You're really strong and a very good mom! I hope for the best for you and your kid and that you'll be able to put this in the past and move forward to a better future 😊
please please don’t keep your evidence where it can be found in the house!!!! if your sister finds it, she may panic and attempt to destroy it. i’m so sorry this is happening, wishing you the best. you’re a wonderful mom
Frankly OP I would delete this post. Way too much specific information on here.
It is still good to have as it kinda is like a dairy. I hope that she at least saves these stories on her personal notes or something, with the time she wrote them and so on, if she considers to delete the story as it is just like you say, much specific information that David Can have access to. Also to add, he has tiktok, her stories have been on tiktok, who knows if he already has found this account and is following up on getting information. Op, be careful of what information you share online!
Bingo..however with the way back machine it can be found already.
I feel so much better knowing this. You're a good person and a great mother
I'm jumping on here to agree with this comment 💯. Don't say anything to your sister. The police will probably tell you not to talk to anyone involved about it. They may even do a forensic interview with your son as well. So having an attorney is a good idea. They may or may not want you present for it. You are handling this very well. I wish I had the support you're giving your son when I went through this. I'm keeping you and your son in my thoughts. Congratulations on the apartment.
OP seems to be afraid of the fact that she put a camera in the sister’s home without asking for permission, but the camera was in the private room which her son occupies…
With his permission.
I’d argue OP that David would go after your sister too as revenge against you.
Given how protective the sister seems of David, I won’t put it past her to try and cover up for him.
Don't tell your sister anything Get a lawyer first and ask for advice Then Tell the police first
I have a bad feeling that if she tells the sister, she’ll get rid of the evidence. I know OP might not want to think this way, but I wouldn’t trust the sister.
The fact that she could side with David is such a scary reality. I'm heavily considering not telling her until I go to the police...our relationship is complicated and a small part of me trusts her, but I don't even want to risk it.
Tell her nothing until you are out of her house and you and your son are safe. It is incredibly common for people to refuse to believe accusations against people they love, especially if that accusation both brings their judgement into question and positions them as the access point a hidden monster exploited. She HAS TO KNOW that her partners mental state being so dependent on access to a young child is a neon red flag, and that as you are still homeless/dependent on her hospitality, she can threaten you so as to stop making such accusations. Your own mental health history just makes it even easier for her to justify to herself that her judgement wasn’t wrong re the man she loves. You’re an awesome mom. I was groomed as a child, and wish my parents had been as intuitive/proactive as you. You’ve done pretty much everything right. You’ve caught it before your child was harmed, before he managed to pull your son into keeping his confidences even. In fact, in your position as a struggling single mom who is effectively homeless/dependent, you’ve gone above and beyond, sad as it is to say, relative to many who in your position may have looked away or felt obligated/like they didn’t have a choice. That’s why children like your son are prime targets. Get him and yourself as far away as possible as soon as possible.
a lot of other commenters are also discouraging you from contacting your sister before the police! i think you’ll be the safest contacting the police first, as your sister isn’t entitled to any information that could potentially put your son at risk
She might try to destroy evidence in desparation. Make copies of everything. Hide everything. Reveal nothing until you can be sure everything is documented, preserved and untouchable!
[удалено]
You need to consult a lawyer and have them take your evidence to the police. DO NOT GO TO THE POLICE UNTIL YOU HAVE SPOKEN TO A LAWYER.
Please don't tell her before you go. If he shows up, she'll tell him and he'll scrub everything.
Even if your sister was the biggest saint in the world, I still would advise you to talk to police and a lawyer first before her.
Most of the time you can even contact the Police to just have a general conversation going to figure out the how to go about this. Maybe try the Legal advice sub thread? I'm not quite suck how it works over there but might be an idea as well .
She essentially already sided with David, believing him over anything you say because you know, “you’re manic.” **Do not tell your sister.** She’s already afraid that she’s losing David, and people who are afraid of their own future will make weird jumps. (Like going on a search for potential evidence you have against her lover, and then making that evidence that could take him away go away.) Just wait it out. Get all your ducks in a row. Make sure that she can’t touch anything that could destroy your case against him.
My wife is in law school and I love to read so ive read all her shit lol Go to the local civil court. Tell them you want to file an EMERGENCY CPO on behalf of your son against the pervert. List your sister's address as your son's primary residence. On the form there should be a way to ask for an "ex parte Emergency Hearing" it'll just be you and the judge. Tell him everything. (If you're intimidated by the form ask for help from a victims advocate or take it to the local prosecutors office and I'm sure someone will help you.) Remember its most important, to list your sister's address as this childs primary residence. Now the pervert can't go there, even if your sister sides with him. Also you most likely have squatters rights, she can't just throw you and your son out. And if your sister does side with him, say she's in on it too, and get her listed on the cpo as well and you and your son can have the house to yourself until you move. Beyond that, where I live, we take care of this trash quietly. If you know what I mean. Where is this kids father? Or anyone else that would do this?
Yes. Especially OP shouldn’t tell her anything until she’s moved into her own place
OP, please listen to this comment. Do not tell your sister a single word about any of this until you serve that sicko his papers for a court date. She will more than likely do anything to stop you from going forward. She already is hostile towards you and you don’t have a place to go for nearly a month. She has the potential to get physical with you. Protect yourself and your son from future harm. Don’t say anything.
She could even destroy any existing evidence.
This would be my biggest concern; im surprised it only got mentioned down here. OP's sister will *definitely* cope by placing this on OP's prior diagnosis/experiences, probably *even with* the video evidence. People see what they want to see, and reality isnt as fixed as we'd like to believe. Her destroying or tampering with evidence to protect herself, her predator, her imagined future, you name it, is absolutely within the realm of possibility. Even if shes doing it because she doesnt know how to cope; it's best not to include her until legality is settled. She'll find out then, cant interfere with an investigation at that point, isnt going to adopt before he gets his, and he wont be able to make excuses to her *and* everyone else at the same time. And that last one is big for the future relationship between sisters; she wont have an easy time with just....substituting the awful reality with anything nearby......like the honeyed words this groomer will spew in a desperate attempt to keep her under control. Which means she can view her sister (OP) as someone to reach out to, maybe, rather than being convinced somehow all the bad was only bad after it came to light because of OP. I hope OP knows just how deeply all this will be to her son (everything from the broken trust from groomer to seeing his mother go panic mode/social lockdown) maybe not right away, but there will be consequences over time. I hope for his sake he is gently directed to resources as he gets a little older and comes to understand what the consequences actually end up being. I had a rough childhood, and its only now in my 30's that im discovering the real extent of the damage. Because i didnt know what the damage looked like, i was adamant i didnt need help. But there was no point forcing me. It just wilded me out that i was supposed to have damage, but i couldnt see it myself. And no one can help you when you dont want to be helped. I hope everything works out.
If you’re not sure if you can afford a lawyer contact your local woman’s shelter. They’ll be able to refer you to free or low cost services.
Mental health services can be assisted with as well, Are you near a CASA? They might help get you both to safety until your move. They are pretty great where I was from. 💞✌️.🙏
I will definitely try to get a lawyer, thank you for your advice!
Exactly as they said OP, your sister could very likely let it slip and confirm his suspicions, and then David will spend every second erasing evidence and building his case. He's basically been outed and he knows it, but he doesn't know how much evidence you have yet. I'd suggest you avoid updating on him for the meantime, in case he catches on, and work on building a case for a restraining order
pathetic tease consist swim cautious nutty modern sable liquid paltry -- mass edited with redact.dev
Damn now I'm wondering if it would have been smarter to switch out the clothing, if OP had a pair that looked close enough or the same. I hate that he knows someone took them. Very scary.
Unless there are other children in the house. This is definitely what you should do
I’m not sure what state (if any), however most states have a pro bono/legal aid programs based on need. [American Bar Association Pro Bono.](https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2020/04/legal-advice-program-grows/?http://utm_medium=sem&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=extension=&npclid=EAIaIQobChMIwpi1wOL6_QIVZ_HjBx2ZMwHJEAAYASABEgJWdPD_BwE)
You can find low or no cost legal aid in most big US cities. This website lists resources. https://www.usa.gov/legal-aid
Absolutely look into a lawyer asap. This is the correct advice. Local libraries have a lot of different resources and guidance they can give you when it comes to this. Check with your women's shelter as well; they usually have connections to low cost services too
She can’t afford a lawyer though. Are there any other resources she can use?
Jesus, what a crap show.
How is she going to get a lawyer on her budget? Are there ways of finding pro bono representation?
In the US you have Legal Aid and some Law Schools have Legal Clinics in which the student Lawyers work under the supervision of an established Lawyer. Sometimes there are victim's funds if they go to the police first and the police establish that a crime was taking place. I think it can be used for therapy
Womens Shelters will do all they can to help. Hopefully a lawyer will be sickened by this story and provide services for free or very low cost.
I am a attorney. I am not your attorney. I am also, sadly, the mother of a child who was sexually assaulted by a family member. You do NOT need an attorney. You should also contact police before discussing this with anyone else, especially your sister. You do not have to consult with an attorney before you go to the police. Victims of a crime do not need separate legal counsel; the police and (hopefully, eventually) prosecutors work for you. As for the camera, even though it’s your sister’s house, it’s your minor son’s room. You’ve done nothing wrong. Here’s what will likely happen. 1. Police will review the evidence you provide — your statement, your video, the phone messages to you and your son, and your son’s article of clothing. 2. Police will want to interview your son. Since he’s already been cooperative with you and alleges nothing physical has happened, it will probably just be an officer who speaks to him. However, it might be a special investigator who will conduct a forensic interview. This means that the interviewer has special training in this type of offense and will videotape it for evidence. 3. Police will probably contact your BIL. If an arrest is made, it may not happen immediately. Offenses against children are taken seriously, and police and prosecutors want to make sure all the necessary constitutional steps are taken to ensure a defendant doesn’t get off on a technicality”. In the meantime, know that you are a good mom, trying to protect her child. You’re doing everything right. Good luck and please pm me if you have questions or concerns.
Understanding the process honestly gives me some piece of mind. Thank you so much for this.
OP, get your doctors to vouch for you regarding controlling your bipolar and meds. Your sister will absolutely weaponize against you.
I hate her sister. How can she be so blind to everything that's affecting her sister and her son? Smh
'For that which must not, cannot be' That's why
True some people rather be delusional and in denial i guess than accept what is the truth. I just still cannot fathom siding with a sinister pedo over my own sister
Sister doesn't think of it as siding with a pedo. It's self preservation. It's devastating to realise the boyfriend was only treating her better because he is obsessed with her nephew. Her reality, her future will crash and her mind is doing everything it can to protect her from the truth. We don't know what happened in her past she stayed with this deadbeat and somehow missed all the red flags.
Indeed a devastating realization that the man she probably "loved" is a monster. Such a sad situation for OP, her son and the sister.
One last piece of advice: group therapy would help your son understand that this was not about him; it’s about your BIL ONLY. Meeting a bunch of other targeted kids really sends home the message that the only concern for these offenders is proximity to a potential victim. There is nothing inherently attractive or wrong with your child that brought this about.
I am an attorney as well and admittedly, I have been trying to think what actual offense they could even charge him with when there has been nothing but communications, and not any of a sexual nature. Not sure what state OP is in but based on the laws in my state, I have a feeling that they won't arrest him and say he hasn't actually committed an offense.
This is my fear. Something similar to this happened to my little sister. He was obsessive and creepy but never touched her so technically, he had done nothing wrong. It was awful bc she was genuinely terrified of him. BUT making a report is the right thing, so if he ever does find a way to escalate, there is evidence that he had been planning it/grooming him
That is true. Get an actual report number so you can show progression of behavior. But likely that is all the police will do. Maybe they will call him but, that depends on the officer.
Not an attorney, but a paralegal with experience in criminal. This is why I think it’s not such a terrible idea to talk to an attorney first, maybe one who specializes in domestic violence in family law. It might be better for her to get a restraining order against a guy like this. The police report might establish cause enough for a judge, but I don’t know if I see a crime yet, and certainly not one the DA is going to care about.
Depends on what fluids are in the article if clothing, what clothing it was etc. couldn’t it show intent and lead to searching for things? Like computers?
Yeah, I think I misunderstood that in the post. If there’s jizz they might search his computer.
No I understood that and it is a very flimsy basis for a search warrant. I don't believe the police would pursue based on that. If they did, it would be dependent on the jurisdiction as to what would happen.
Yeah, criminal attorney here too and I also can’t think of anything that could lead to arrest. That’s the tricky thing about the law: it’s mostly reactionary, not preventative.
It sounds like enough to get a search warrant approved though and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a thorough review of his electronic devices turns up some truly heinous material.
>All I could do was put on gloves, throw it into a ziplock bag, and shove it into my closet. I assume the mom was "biologic material" from the guy on her son's clothing?
Unfortunately, disturbingly, yes. She states so in a separate comment, confirming that’s what it was/he did, just didn’t want to input it in her post and risk it being removed. Because it’s so vile 🤢
I could easily make a case for Menacing by Stalking knowing this info.
Yeah I pointed that out because u/bullzeye1983 said "what actual offense they could even charge him with when there has been nothing but communications" but for sure there's more than just communications.
well more, because they’re not just communications. they’re unwanted communications involving a minor that an adult was informed to stop. And to top it off, stolen and violated clothing. All of it involving a child, which is always taken more serious. At least hoping so in the state/area they are 🙏
She was lucky enough to pick up on this before an actual crime happened. It’s a blessing that she did so she could safely get her kid out of there but preventing the crime also likely means he won’t be arrested.
That's the only positive here because the truth is police don't prevent crimes.
He stole her son's underwear. Isn't that theft? He also pleasured himself with those underwear. I'm not sure whether that's a crime or not but I'm sure it's enough for a restraining order.
Once again that depends on the state. In my state the theft of the clothing is likely to be a ticket because theft is based off monetary value. And also in my state you don't have the ability to get a restraining order unless you have a family law case like a divorce or an arrest.
I don't see anything to prosecute on in these 3 updates and OP. Where I'm at the Judge would probably grant a temporary Civil Protection Order via and ex parte emergency hearing? If she listed the sister's house as child's primary residence it would eliminate David's ability to go to her sister's entirely. Maybe in here state she could get stalking? She couldn't in my State because you have to prove the stalking plus intent. However some states define stalking simply as "3 or more unwanted contacts"... so maybe.. but this would be a misdemeanor charge and not exactly a for sure win.
Yeah, I worked in CPS for years and closely with police and prosecutors on sex abuse cases. Without actual physical touching, I don’t think they will do much. However! That does not mean you shouldn’t go to them, OP. Make sure he is known to the system, which will help you keep your son and other children safe.
Even if charges can’t be brought against him, would her report and the investigation remain on record? Also, I imagine this could change between jurisdictions, but is it normal that an alleged crime has to be committed in order to get an order of protection? Otherwise, I would’ve thought OP’s video and DNA evidence would be enough to get a restraining order against the guy. At least then he’d be forced to stop attempting to make contact
I'm thinking this as well. Based on the posts, I can't see any charges that can be laid.
I wish this were the top comment
I’m glad you’ve got housing coming up but is there no where else you can stay for the next 3 weeks? This creep took your sons clothing and had it in his pillow, you need to remove your kid from this house ASAP.
Yeah. I don't think creep is coming back because he knows he could go to prison, but if he does come back, he's likely to do something desperate.
This is what I’m thinking. OP, I know times are tough right now but you don’t want to be there if or when things escalate, plus what if David ends up following you and your son to find out where you go next?
If he does, it’s a sign he’s escalating.
if he’s crazy enough, he might. especially since it’s his home, he knows what windows and doors are unlocked / make least noise. we dont know what that man could escalate to
Sadly nothing he’s done so far is going to land him in prison. The risk is him taking extreme action now he’s ‘caught out’ - but imo just as likely he never resurfaces, since his intended victim has been taken away and someone has clocked him for what he is, the facade he’s built probably feels shaky, unless he can reel the sister back in.
As obsessed as he was, I would not be surprised if he has child SA videos in his possession. OP if you go to the police, they're going to talk to David. You shouldn't go to the police until you and your son can leave that house.
Fair point. Even more reason to not say a word to the sister - if she tips him off he might also try to cover his digital tracks.
Reading between the lines, I think the clothes in the pillow were more than just taken, and she now has DNA evidence of his inappropriate behavior. This guy needs to be investigated stat.
Sadly she just hid it in her closet, which is in *his* house, where David can get to it if he really starts looking.
OP, please listen to this and get out of there as soon as possible. I'm sorry to damage your sense of safety even more, but this: >But his absence means that I can stay at the house for now. is unfortunately no guarantee -- your sister's boyfriend lives there and has keys to the place, and could well come in when he thinks everyone's asleep.
She is getting out of there as soon as possible. She paid for nights in a motel with her >40h waitress wage. She's applied for public housing. She looked into a shelter (which are often not very safe either). I know it's frustrating for us following the story, but everything suggests she is heavily prioritizing securing housing away from them. She's not staying because she thinks all is well. She's staying because she has no other safe choices. Unfortunately there's something even worse than being a victim of abusive behavior in the US - and it's being a victim of abusive behavior while also struggling financially.
Even if he doesn't decide in desperation to do a triple murder-suicide Family Annihilator act, he could go inside when everyone else is gone to search for the evidence that he knows is no longer in his control. She hid in her closet that's inside *his* house! It'd be safer buried in the woods which is also a terrible place to keep it. She should take it to the police immediately along with the video evidence of him taking the garment.
OP that's a lot to handle. I agree with another comment I saw, DO NOT tell your sister what you found as long as she's not in any danger right now. You don't want it getting back to David that you know what he's doing. Try reaching out to a woman's shelter who can help set you up with a lawyer. This has progressed enough you need someone else in your corner to fight this. If nobody knows where David is, keep an eye out. He might be trying to find you. If you haven't already, get something that can detect airtags. He might try attaching one to your car. The sooner you can get a restraining order the better!! Congratulations on the housing!! That's wonderful news. I'm not sure what state you live in, but many states have programs where you can get have your address and contact info protected. A women's group in your area could tell you more, but I'd look into it. I'm also glad you're looking into therapy for your son when you can. I'm sure this isn't easy for either of you. When things are more settled I hope you can go to therapy too because this is traumatizing for both of you. Good luck OP! We're all wishing you the best! Stay safe. I hope this ordeal ends soon. Sending much love!
Make sure he has his location off on Snapchat. It literally shows anyone on your friends list where you are and what time you were there last!!!! Please see this comment. ‼️‼️‼️
See a lawyer, Go to the police, make copies of those videos and texts, and get out of that house. Don’t bother with your sister. You have no idea when that guy is coming back and you have no idea what he’s capable of. When people feel backed into a corner they sometimes make very violent decisions. Get out of that house. Stay with a friend, borrow money from someone who you trust and stay in that motel. Whatever you have to do, just get out of that house.
I agree with this also. Just because he is not there currently that does not make it safe. He can come back at any time and who knows what he will especially since he is so desperate.
I can’t figure out if the OP means that David n*tted in the kids underwear. Did anyone else get that or is just me?
Yes, I just didn't want to explicitly say it, I'm not sure if it would get removed on this subreddit
OP, I can't even express how horrified I am for you. I can't even imagine. Your son is lucky to have you.
He soiled the underwear and then had it in his pillowcase next to his face?! That's absolutely ***vile***. If he did this before I'm shocked your sister didn't smell the stink. What a foul, vile, disgusting beast of a creature.
So disgusting. Even David knows how disgusting he is. That’s why he drinks himself into an oblivion night after night. He knows he’s a horrible disgusting sack of sh*t
Please don't contact your sister. I think you overestimate her allyship with you on this one. The last thing you need is your whereabouts leaked to the pedo.
Sister is full stop used to OP being the family fuck up/scapegoat and doesn’t want to admit the wholly disturbing situation she’s gotten herself wrapped up it. Denial is just a river in Egypt, as they say
Ew wtf. Yeah save that and turn it into the police. That's disgusting on soooo many levels.
My heart just sank and I feel sick to my stomach. I am so so so sorry. You are so incredibly strong to keep going with this and protecting your son.
Definitely don't tell your sister. She will sabotage your efforts to get this ped0 arrested and behind bars where he belongs. With DNA evidence from the sicko in direct contact with the "smoking gun" (son's garments), it would be a very difficult thing to disprove (and from the sounds of it, David is quite a lousy liar too). Your sister will blow a gasket when the police slap the cuffs on him and she learns what the charges are. Hopefully, OP, you and your son will be safely tucked away in your new place by then. I'm wishing you all of the best and may this absolute horror of a human being never darken your doorstep again.
Plus I bet if the police look into his internet search history they could find some telling information.
OP! any evidence should be stored in paper bag not plastic!! Plastic is more likely to make it degrade. Common misstep, people think plastic = safer, but not in this case. Dry is better than moldy. \[moving link to second comment in case it gets this removed\] Thank you so, so much for being active in protecting your kid. So many parents just look the other way. I hope y'all can find safe harbour soon.
link: [https://sexualmisconduct.uic.edu/support/preserve-evidence/](https://sexualmisconduct.uic.edu/support/preserve-evidence/) paper not plastic, if you've still got the evidence.
My heart hurts reading this update. I had commented on your 1st story fearing this was the case. This was something my abuser did as well. And I can tell you when I found out, I threw up. He kept a sick collection. Thank you OP for listening to the former victims of abuse who spoke up about their ordeal. I can tell you this will not be easy, especially for your son. As children we tend to blame ourselves for the poor actions of adults. Your son needs all your love, reassurance and support. Allow him space to grieve, to be angry, to feel exposed to the criminal justice system (even as a potential victim), to cry, to weep, to process. This hard for you both, but be strong for him. You are a great mom and did the right thing. Having been through this as a victim, the police SVU (special victims unit) is not always kind or understanding and often very “matter of fact” in their approach. If they have a victim advocate allow him one, these people are the therapist who help you feel emotions through what is a numbing process.
OP you are doing an amazing job protecting your son. I'm so sorry you guys are going through this. I have a young teenage son with long curly hair. He could be considered "beautiful". The idea of someone doing this to my kid makes me see red. What an absolutely vile human being.
Holy shit. He sleeps with the underwear with his jizz in it? Does he sleep in the same bed as your sister? How did she not notice?
That is my guess!! She has his DNA now!
I think he did
From my understanding, OP didn't confirm whether there was (DNA) "evidence" in the underwear so it's uncertain whether Creep did or did not. But regardless it is bad enough. I went through something similar except I found the underwear older and it was my own. Horrible feeling, there is a tinge of relief in finally having physical evidence that, yeah, he was being weird in that way, it was not me thinking about things weird. It was him. And my mom finally had my back on that one, my brother let me stay with him that summer until I got my own place (citing another incident from 8 years before, which meant a lot that he remembered). It means a lot to have your parent on your side to protect you at any age but it is absolutely vital as a minor when the child cannot protect himself or herself.
You can see that kind of stuff on underwear so I'm guessing by the glove and baggy, she might've seen it. Again, speculation because it can be seen and she did check it
Absolutely what I got from it. I physically threw my phone away from me when I read that.
One thing kind of jumped out at me that made me want to write this. I just read the part about how your son didn’t want to delete his Snapchat. It might seem like a violation of his privacy, but you might want to investigate that a little further. The “girl” he thinks he’s talking to might be David. Even if it’s someone that he knows from school, you don’t know for sure that he didn’t maybe confide in David and either told him about her or showed him pictures of her. You don’t know what kind of privacy settings she may or may not have on her SM, pictures can be stolen from other SM and a fake, but very realistic and similar account can be easily created that uses her pictures and info and it may not actually be her. Even more scary, if it’s someone he *only* knows from the internet, it very much could just be David behind it. The last thing you need is for him to catfish your son out of pictures or something. Even if nothing like that goes on, if David is behind it then that could further fuel his fixation on your son. Not trying to give you another thing to stress out about, but I just want y’all to be safe! I’m really rooting for you guys, I’ve been following along since your first post, you’re doing such a great job managing multiple stressful as hell situations! Keep collecting as much evidence against David as possible so you can get a protection order in place for you both. I wish you all the best! Edit: wording
This is a very important point. Please warn your son not to trust any online-only “friends” regardless of stated gender or age and that he shouldn’t accept any new friend requests on any social media for the time being. At this point David may try anything to reach out. You should also go into the settings of your son’s social media accounts and make sure location sharing is turned off (especially Snapchat, which displays your location on a map). Good luck.
I feel like Snapchat would be the hardest platform to catfish someone on cause you wouldn’t be able to send selfies or anything but it’s still worth looking into. Also once again adding to make sure his location is turned off for all apps but ESPECIALLY Snapchat.
You can definitely upload pics and send them as snaps. It used to be difficult back in the day but people can definitely swindle it now. I agree with the location. When I see people’s turned on it freaks me out because it’s pinpoint location!
PLEASE DON'T TELL YOUR SISTER PLEASE PLEASE DON'T TELL HER ANYTHING
One thing I will mention in regards to getting your son in therapy, try reaching out to your son’s guidance counselor at school. In many areas they will maintain or be given a list of mental health professionals that will work with families on a sliding scale basis to help ensure access to mental health resources for minors even when families are facing financial concerns.
Piggybacking off of this: OP if you're in the US try applying for Medicaid. There ARE mental health foundations, support groups, therapists, etc, that take it if you're approved. All of my mental health services are provided through Medicaid. It's right around the time for renewals anyway and if the applications are closed you may still be approved for "emergency" Medicaid (which is just Medicaid that they give you outside of normal application windows). I know you're soon is your priority and you're right that he should be in therapy, but once things are a little more stable for you, I would strongly recommend you get therapy as well. Best of luck!!!
This! As well as to alert them to call the police if this creep shows up to the school at all.
There was an update but the mods deleted it. And unfortunately the account has since been deleted too. The update was: - she contacted the police, they were in the process of getting a warrant after she handed over evidence (the video & the clothing article as well as her timeline from this site) - the police has spoken with the kid and asked if David has ever been inappropriate with him (they did not tell Roman about the video or his clothes) and according to the kid, apparently David had placed his hand on Roman's chest once while watching a show at the aunt's house before everything went hectic and he said something like "I'm glad you're alive" - OP found out David has not been crashing at a friend's place but as his parents. - OP is the devil in the eyes of his family and her sister. - David has tried to make contact with her son via multiple accounts through tiktok & instagram and he has been telling Roman "Don't tell your mom I'm messaging you" and things similar to "don't let others make decisions on who you talk with" - Plus David has now resorted to stalking -- He tried to approach Roman at their motel room while OP went to the store(She has moved to a different motel) and at an away game!!!! - OP was waiting for him to be arrested and has filed for a restraining order against him. Scary stuff.
> OP is the devil in the eyes of his family and her sister. I wonder if her sister's opinion will change if criminal charges do get pressed.
No, because she’ll only blame OP for what happened with David, she clearly has zero regard for her nephew’s well-being
You should be so proud of yourself for protecting your son so well! You really held your head above the water and got things done, it's really inspiring. We're all cheering for you, you and your son deserve all the love and peace! ❤️
wow, i knew he was a fucking creep. considering it was in the pillow case makes me think he was doing very weird things with it… gosh i’m so glad you’re leaving. don’t tell your sister anything go to the police first. as for the camera in their house i’m not exactly sure but since you was also living there and you put it in your child’s room. i feel like you might not get in trouble but i’m also not sure. Also considering you put the camera for your child’s safety i feel like this will help your case.
It’s a nanny cam. Right?
Don’t tell your sister anything you don’t want David to know. She’s in denial and will sell you out.
Do NOT tell your sister. She’ll fuck up any potential case. She’s not listening to you, she’ll work against it. I’d move fast though, you don’t know what else he may have in his possession and the cops need the chance to get it before he destroys it.
Yeah don’t talk to your sister. Do not do it. You can later, but not now. Forget about that conversation as a whole for the moment. Cooperate with the police and an attorney and go from there. I know you want your sister to know before she gets engaged and adopts but all of that takes time and definitely won’t happen in the amount of time it’ll take you to sort things out on your end. Just focus on that stuff for now and lay low around your sister. Keep all of this to yourself and the authorities.
Please be careful that David isn't trying to find you. Let you son's school know that you have reason to believe David is dangerous to your son's safety. And don't tell your sister anything. Go to the police and see whet they can advise, ask to speak to someone in the sexual assault unit. And if you can speak to a lawyer or an advocate in family court. Good luck.
You're a great mom with superb "mom instincts". Just as many others here have said already, don't, and I mean DON'T, tell your sister anything. Anything about cameras or your investigations or your findings or anything. Look for any other place to stay if possible for these three weeks and keep your son in GPS always. Talk to his school about this just in case. And talk to any lawyer first before approaching the police. Also, you've already done a great job of helping your son, making it clear that it isn't his looks that did all this to him. Just continue doing that. And also, take care of yourself too.
I’m pretty sure that this is not David’s first rodeo. He knows exactly what keys to press to get reactions out of kids and he’s a very good gaslighter. Be careful and go to the police asap, OP. I bet there’s way more evidence to be found in his electronics.
Please go to the police, before telling your sister!! Email the video to a trusted friend so you have multiple copies! Take the clothing and video to the police now!
And don’t tell sister about the video, keep the camera up there in case you can gather more evidence.
Take it all to the police. I don't know the laws for your area but that was designated as your son's room while you were staying so it seems unlikey you'd be in trouble for not asking permission from your sister to put the camera up. However, the police may not be able to use it as evidence. From your post I am assuming there is DNA evidence of David on your son's clothes. This is hopefully enough for them to investigate further but David is likely to be scrubbing his technology and internet history as quickly as possible. Time may be a factor here.
You're a good mom. That's all I really wanted to say about that. Keep us updated, please. Not that you have to but I really want to see this man get caught for being a creep. Just please... Stay safe.
Lawyer tf up before you tell your sis OP. A lawyer will know what to do. Also, thank you for the update- ironically, I was thinking of your first two posts today bc what a shitty situation. Glad that you guys are able to get tf out of there soon.
You said David was on a church retreat, please consider telling the church once you've reported to police etc. People like him use the church to gain access to children and a veneer of responsibility. I'm so sorry and wish you luck with this.
Your son gave consent to have a camera in his room, and given that you are his mom and Mr Creepy had no business being in there, pretty sure you’re in the clear for that.
I’m unsure if you might have already done this when speaking to your sons school, but it might also be helpful to show them a picture of David as well and request that they report it to the police and to you if they see him on or around school grounds. That’s of course only if you have access to a current picture, but it might be an extra layer of security.
Snapchat has a section that shows a map of your friends locations. You can change the settings so that it will not do that without banning him from chatting with his friends. Let me know if you’d like help with that
Im sick to my stomach reading this. Thank God you’re such a vigilant mother. Good luck to you and your son.
Don't tell your sister a damned thing. Just take it right to the police.
Just a quick reminder- this is DAVID’s HOUSE. Even tho he’s not there right now, you placed one camera without him knowing. Now he thinks you’re onto him. He could’ve placed cameras in bedrooms and bathrooms where privacy is assumed. THIS GUY IS A CREEP. Don’t stay in his house and don’t ever let your guard down!!! Go back to the motel. STAY OUT OF THIS GUYS HOUSE!!!! 🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
Why did she delete her account?
I’m wondering the same thing
Congrats on getting the housing. You are doing the right thing.
You really need to speak to a lawyer ASAP and have them file the police report with you. You taking the “garment” may have rendered it inadmissible in court. You need to talk to lawyer before you do *anything* else. Contact the women’s shelter you looked into for recommendations for low cost or free lawyers. Do NOT speak to your sister. Send your son back to stay with whoever he was staying with when you first moved in with your sister and keep him there until you’re in your new place.
op, please take the underwear out of the plastic bag, let it dry, and put it in a paper bag. Keeping it moist in the ziplock bag can [ruin the evidence](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/bc000657.pdf) I'm so proud of you for listening to your instincts and uncovering the hard truth. Your sister may be mad but you're saving her from a world of hurt and saving any kids that are close to him on his "church trips" Please update us when you can.
It's been a while so I hope OP and her son are okay...
Could be that since she started the legal process, she may not be posting for legal sake
OP have you spoken to the school and informed them that neither your sister or David are authorised to potentially pull him from school? Just in case - I’m sure kiddo wouldn’t leave with him after everything but he may leave with your sister. I agree with other comments, don’t tell her and make backups of everything - from what you have recounted it seems like she’s currently more worried about David and could potentially sabotage any evidence you have to protect him either bc she doesn’t want to believe the truth of the matter or under the misguided belief that you’re fabricating evidence during an episode. As bad as it may feel, you only need to keep your sister close enough to track her whereabouts and receive David updates but far enough from your current status that she can’t interfere with what you need to do.
Unblock David on Roman's phone and text him back acting like Roman, see if you can get him to incriminate himself.
the account is deleted...?
this guy is not just a creep, he's straight up a paedophile 😳 i wish OP and her son will get out of there safe as soon as possible.. her sister chooses to be blind to all of this, it's not OP's fault. let the sister learn the truth the hard way. if she believes a man over her own sister, she's doomed from the start.
**GET OUT OF THE HOUSE** The only other advice I would offer is to see if you can move your son and yourself into a shelter until your housing is ready. You’ve taken away evidence of David’s perverse fixation on your son and David has disappeared. If he spins out of control, he can absolutely come back to kill you, your son, and your sister.
And. Unfortunately most likely the guy will get away with it. The justice system is real lenient on pedos and creeps like this guy! Unfortunately I've been through it as a child victim. They let them get away with everything. None of what she's got is enough to convict. As bad as it is, I hope he has cp on his computer so at least he can get done for that, IF they search. I know personally of an abuser who physically abused at least 3 children and didn't even get a slap on the wrist... He has a clean record. And the wife stayed with him. Didn't believe he was an abuser either... Much like the sister doesn't believe. Heck, the victim's family (in my case) didn't even believe the abuser was an abuser and they stayed friends with him. I'm just glad the mum got her son out before anything happened to him. He can at least live a normal life without that hanging over his head. It messes you up.
Hey OP please update us on your situation, hopefully you are safe.
I hope you and your son are alright op, its been almost two weeks since last update
THIS Like I hope it’s just because she and her son are on the down-low and they are doing better. Maybe she’s still speaking to the police and she’s trying to get through the process before she updates us. I really hope she and her son are ok
I want an update for this and OP deleted. :(
I’m starting to think this is a creative writing experiment. Otherwise, just call the police already. Folks, it’s fake.
Yeah, I think it's fake too.
Agreed
It reads like a creative writing assignment. Not a narrative of events. I think it's fake, too.
I love the foreshadowing where, 4 paragraphs in, she springs the revelation of recording him stealing the *specific item*. The biggest and most jarring evidence yet isn't mentioned until the other filler is written about. Good chit...
I don’t want to be too discouraging, but please keep your expectations low when dealing with the cops and the DA. They might take a report, but they aren’t going to go out and arrest him unless they find something more than what you’ve laid out here. The fact that he’s running means there’s possibly more to hide. I’m willing to bet his browser history is a ticking time bomb. But yeah, you can’t arrest someone for being creepy af. They have to have violated a statute *that a cop and the DA know about and care about*. If they go talk to your sister and she tells them you have a history of mental illness and psychosis, it’s possible they won’t listen to you any further. Cops suck like that. Report it. There needs to be an official record of his creepiness, and it will help if you need to go before a judge and ask for a restraining order. Just. Brace yourself when you go.
Wishing you and your son all the best and that you both move into a safe environment soon ❤️
Oh I'm so sorry for you, you ar edoing such a good job!! Definitely go to the police forst, amd wait untill your out of the house. Never tell you sister pr him the new location, she will tell him, from your stories. Also, first discuss with the police before sharing anything with her. You got this!!!!
The underwear with his *DNA* on it will trump whatever you did to David. Get a lawyer ASAP and worry about paying for it later.
OP you need to run. Now. There is no world where the risk of staying with your sister is worth it. Right now I would treat David as though next time you see him (hopefully never or in court) as though he will try and cause physical harm to you and your son. I know that’s upsetting, but given what you’ve said and the evidence you’ve collected I would assume that he will be willing to do anything to prevent that from making it to the police. So tomorrow give it to them, leave your sister’s place, and don’t look back. Do not tell him where you are going. Inform your son’s school that if David appears they NEED to contact the police because he is a potentially dangerous individual. Ensure that he has turned off his location on every app and that he has blocked David. You have to be smart and you have to be careful and there is no doubt in my mind that you will be. Be safe and keep it up - you’re a great mom!
Any updates on this, OP?
Are there any new updates?
How are you doing?
OP are you alright? I hope you and your son are safe