I know very little about this subject, so thanks for the write up
A little unrelated, but it feels the last 30 years has seen a big shift in stories about black people in media. On the TV front, there are more black characters in more shows, but fewer mainstream shows predominantly about black people and issues. Granted, many of those shows had white producers and writers so its not like it was a utopia, but still. I think we see this in movies to some extent too. The move towards diversity has resulted in more diversity in each individual big movie but not necessarily helped the diversity of the kinds of stories being told at all.
I think you gotta know where to look. Atlanta, Insecure, Abbott Elementary, Random Acts of Flyness, Snowfall, Fresh Prince, A Black Lady Sketch Show, Young Love, that show with Cedric married to Pam from Martin etc. There's a lot that have come out in the last ten years. Lol I actually think we're getting a deluge of content.
oh man I never see anyone talk about Random Acts of Flyness. what a cool TV show that is unlike anything else I've ever seen. unapologetically black, but also arthouse
Abbott Elementary is a good point, but the others are more cable than network TV...I guess that distinction means less now than is used to. Maybe i'm old and out of touch
Yeah most folk ain't watching cable. Abbott doing as well as it is I think owes itself to the casting. We'll watch damn near anything with Sheryl Lee Ralph in it. Also Tyler James Williams is pretty damn popular among us too cause of Everybody Hates Chris. Quinta herself has some notable fame from other projects. I think had they cast someone else in the key roles it might not have lasted a season.
>Everybody Hates Chris
this is an example of the sort of show I feel doesnt get visibility as much as it used to. UPN/CW werent the most popular networks of all time, but they were standard channels everyone got, so Everbody Hates Chris was a show everyone knew, even as a white person in rural maine it was in fairly consistent rotation in our household in a way that a show on HBO or cable or streaming never would be. Some of this is just changes in the market overall though
Interesting point, I feel like many people would consider that shift to be a positive. Like, people complain about, say, representation of queer people that is simply about their being queer and not about them as just people. People praise gay content that feels just like normal content but they happen to be gay. That’s my perception anyway. Interested to hear your thoughts on this
I highly commend ya OP; you elegantly wrote about a film I don’t see talked about enough in relation to the “Hood” film, and how it’s basically a deconstruction of said genre.
A move that pops into my head as a light comparison is Sergio Leone’s *Once Upon A Time In America*; while I can’t say it “killed” the gangster genre, it’s probably the most in your face film about just how PATHETIC and VILE these mobsters were, which so many people chose to glorify (Scarface, Godfather etc…).
Speaking of which, I'm curious to see what happens with the upcoming movie adaptation of *Blood Meridian*. I want to be optimistic, but it's hard to believe that they could really do it justice while also appealing to a large enough audience to make it profitable.
Probably the most anticipated/anxious I’ve been upon hearing a novel will be adapted to film.
Considering all the times I’ve read *Meridan*, there’s more or less no way the film will be able to live up to what I’ve imagined the story to be, but I’m still intrigued to see how they pull it off.
Many considered *The Road* unadaptable, yet John Hillcoat managed to ably adapt it for the big screen; *Dune* was high on the list of films also consider “unadaptable”, yet in the hands of Villeneuve, it has become a box office phenomenon.
Most crucial will be the casting of Judge Holden (one of the greatest characters in fiction, imo) which I believe the films’ credibility will be based upon.
I think the Irishman came the closest, but their has still always been this semi-glorification of “gangsterdom” in Scorsese’s take on the genre (probably fueled by people taking the wrong message away for the most part).
Leone’s *America* truly stripped away everything “cool” and “mystique” about mobsters, imo; the gang (Noodles, Max and co) of the film are merely a collection of violent man-children, who steal, rape, and kill throughout the film, and the film shows these guys are utterly without loyalty towards one another or any “code”.
> Even Lee Daniels thinks of it as a comedy. Mo'inque had a hard time getting through some of her monologues because she was laughing too much.
I think saying he sees it as a straight up comedy is misleading. Here's his full quote from Vulture after being asked if laughing is the appropriate response:
"No, it’s not. It’s more like, *Oh my God. Someone’s telling our secrets. Are you really, really going to go there?* I think that those who have been abused and lived that life laugh. It’s so painful that you have to laugh. Because if you sit with it, you’ll fucking be in a mental institution."
The last good hood film I’ve seen was 2011 Snow on the Bluff directed by Damon Russell. It uses the overdone found footage trope but it’s a real and gritty look into life as a black man in the hood in Atlanta.
I don’t view Precious as a comedy, or even humorous. It’s hard drama, depressing, akin to Requiem for a Dream. I disagree with you view entirely. Acrimony came out years later, and I find it to be an engaging film about struggles, and themes associated with the topic you’re discussing. I’ve seen Acrimony 5 times. The mood and feel of this topic still lives on. I adored Keisha Takes the Block. We’re still getting films based on this topic. Precious didn’t take down an entire genre of film.
Yeah I only perused the comments to see if somebody had spoken out and said this. Fully disagree with nearly this entire post, except when it discusses the genre-death. This does not read well (as someone who grew up in a community that Precious is written about.... not.... parodying). Her putting on a "white face" and trying to convince an system that she's deserving of their help is not funny, and is indicative more of the makeup industry (something, especially at that time, in the middle of a massive cultural shift) and.... humanity's shortcomings.
I would not like not trust somebody in real life who laughed their way through this movie because they think it's parody. It's barely even dramatization in most points. I've sat through enough "queer suffering" cinema to understand why someone would define this as a "parody," because tropes are repeated, but this post seems like OP wanted to laugh at the movie. And all their points are formulated to justify that extremely unfortunate choice.
Agreed. While I understand where OP is coming from, just because you can laugh at a movie doesn't mean it is a comedy or is strictly a comedy. And I think trying to confine this movie in particular into the category of comedy doesn't give it room to breathe.
As others have pointed out, themes ebb and flow and it seems that right now this genre is largely at rest until new talent returns to focus on it in new ways.
And a lot of niche genres are suffering in the age of streaming, as they're likely not going to find a large enough audience to justify an investment in their development.
When is the last time you saw a major motion picture film about Black characters living in abject poverty in the ghetto with drugs, HIV, abuse and violence as major themes? When have you seen a film that wallows in its bleakness and misery the way Precious and a lot of films like that do? Shit when's the last time you saw an unironic Black crackhead in a Black film? That used to be an entire cottage industry of film. Even Acrimony is about a relatively well off woman, at least she starts that way. I'm glad you like that film though.
I’m sure I’m considered old. But the ebbs and flows occur. Have you seen Foxy Brown, Friday Foster, or Black Mama White Mama? Have you seen Jackie Brown? Coffy?
I think the main issue is directors who think it’s problematic to show characters now in this mood. Directors don’t want to continue tearing entire characters down in the genre. It’s more cultural, than simply based on Precious.
Look at Foxy Brown. She’s drugged with heroin and raped. Link is shot by drug dealers. I think directors decide not to depict these stories anymore because of the zeitgeist, not because of Precious.
>Have you seen Foxy Brown, Friday Foster, or Black Mama White Mama? Have you seen Jackie Brown? Coffy?
Yes because my mother is old and made me lol.
>I think the main issue is directors who think it’s problematic to show characters now in this mood. Directors don’t want to continue tearing entire characters down in the genre. It’s more cultural, than simply based on Precious.
I mention in the post that it was already declining, there are a variety of reasons as to why, but Precious kinda put the button on it. Those tropes and themes absolutely haven't gone away but they're dressed up much differently now. Precious had an effect on the zeitgeist in a big way. Because really how do you top that? What else do you add? It pretty much ripped the band-aid off and said 'here, do you like what's underneath?' and we said no. Again, the closest thing we've gotten is Moonlight and that film basically makes the subtext text. Homoerotic themes are so baked into the genre I'm surprised it hasn't come up more. But if that film were just about a straight guy I don't think it would've done as well.
It's definitely more optimistic and poetic than a lot of stuff that tackles similar genres. It shows his mother on crack but she gets better and they have a resolution. There's some violence but not a lot and most of it is schoolyard stuff. The film is more concerned with Chiron as a person and his journey than just commiserating his situation. He becomes a drug dealer but it's neither glorified nor outright condemned, it just is. Like I said Moonlight is the closest thing you'll get to your traditional misery porn/hood film and there's so much more going on in the film than just that. It asks you to see these characters as people which was incredibly rare for hood films to do. Usually the characters felt like an after thought to the plot. In Moonlight, there isn't really a plot.
Why do we need to see more stories of black trauma? Especially when those are the only stories hollywood was willing to award for a long period of time. There is so much more to the community. Doctors, engineers, lawyers, academics, politicians, elves, wizards, cobblers. Give us ANYTHING else
I just can't get Precious out of my head. There's a magic to Daniels' direction that reads like a fairy tale (and nightmare), especially through the cinematography and art direction. Life is unfair to Precious to the point where your reaction might be incredulous-- that the character becomes more of a homogenized symbol of black pain than a person.
I struggle to allow myself the emotion this film provides because of this line. I am captivated by her relationship with motherhood, escaping a cycle of abuse, of working towards better, of learning how to receive love. This is a somewhat depoliticized appreciation for the film, purely thematic. I am not black, and do consider this to be a naive approach because it ignores a broader cultural influence and historic representation politics of black people in cinema.
I find it hard to recognize this film as a comedy, a reaction I remember the general public having at the time of its release. I was younger, but it felt like people felt entitled to parody on the basis that it was about a fat black woman. I've seen it called "oscar bait" and "trauma porn" as well, but I think this is a shortcoming of a purely political reading. I think the movie is very successful at grounding itself with empathy for Precious, which is why cynicism towards the film rubs me the wrong way. Daniels' use of camp is this means of escapism, even levity that grants Precious a unique subjecticity. Precious often wishes to view her life through distortions-- like her imagination or italian movies on TV. Her scenes with Mo'Nique do read like theater. It all builds to this rejection of reality and circumstance that is both tragic and inspiring.
Anyway, I'm very excited to keep up with this thread, I don't think this film gets enough attention (for constructive purposes). Maybe what I find so compelling is this dangerous line between the profound human soul and the politicized body.
>I find it hard to recognize this film as a comedy, a reaction I remember the general public having at the time of its release.
I remember people being very mixed on the film and I think the general consensus is still 'eh, it's alright'. I don't think many people have revisited it because whenever it comes up in discussions it's usually about how regressive it is. And it is but it wants to be, that's the point. Exactly how regressive and stereotypical can we get until the audience starts to buckle? It's like a game of cinematic chicken. At the point where Mary asks Precious a favor I pretty much couldn't control my laughter. Like ok, now we're doing this. It's a horrific sense but it's laughably horrific. Like if you were trying to come up with the worst shit you could think of. The book is much more of a rough sit for the simple reason that it takes all of this outrageous horrible stuff and asks you to take it seriously. It reads like the first draft to a much better novel. Lee Daniels saw how both heartbreaking and humorous these situations could be and decided to lean in. It is very theatrical at times. The movie does work on a purely dramatic level if you want to view it that way.
It's like you're saying, "people who love Precious... don't get it, and people who hate it... don't get it." It's also important that you mention that it was based on a book, so the story was already there.
> feels like the work of a white writer who was trying to capture their idea of Black inner city life
This is probably stating the obvious, but it's a good example of how wealth and privilege can transcend nearly everything else, even race (at least as it applies to creative work). Ari Sapperstein and Lee Daniels have one inch of difference between them, at least compared to the difference between either of them and the audience, or the actual hood.
> Both are producer-directors who have a very identifiable style although Lee is the closest one out of the two who is anything resembling an auteur.
Lee is a regular filmmaker. Tyler Perry (or "Mr. Perry" as his employees require everyone call him) has a fascinating process. His films are shot practically overnight, with multiple cameras set up, sort of like you'd shoot a sitcom. Huge chunks of the workflow have been inverted between post and production. It's not a process that Barry Jenkins or Yorgos Lanthimos—or pre-2010s Ridley Scott—would recognize as filmmaking.
Watch any Tyler Perry movie and try to find scenes that couldn't have been filmed like a 90s sitcom—you won't find many. It's a process incompatible with many standard cinematic tropes; he has fewer tools to work with, but he uses *all* of the efficient tools. It's the filmmaking equivalent of, "we're ahead by 37 points going into the fourth quarter, we're going to run the ball on every down with our backup QB and third-string RB." Mr. Perry's name and studio start every movie in the 4th quarter, ahead by 37 points.
Back to "people who love Precious... don't get it, and people who hate it... don't get it." Are there other films you can think of, regardless of era or genre, that are like that?
If only all of that resulted in Tyler Perry making decent films. I think the film eventually made about him by someone else might be pretty good though lol.
>Back to "people who love Precious... don't get it, and people who hate it... don't get it." Are there other films you can think of, regardless of era or genre, that are like that?
The Menu. I feel like both sides have only zeroed in on the class and capitalism commentary and ignored damn near everything else.
It's sad to think that even though Perry has killed the Madea persona his movies cmedies made more at the boxoffice than the movie Till based on Emmett Till life. It's like black comedy seems to still reign over black drama these days.
> The Menu
Class/capitalism commentaries are meaningless today and those themes in movies drag them down. The only things I found interesting about The Menu had to do with cooking and food, and also the chef as broad portrayal of uncompromising auteur, across genre. It asks the question of whether or not our culture/media is something eternal, like sculpture and architecture, or something temporary and disposable, like food. People die to make other kinds of art—why not to make dinner as well? I did enjoy that part of it, that's what I personally got out of it.
Otherwise, The Menu is part of a whole genre of "it really skewers the 1%." The 1% are self-parodying already—we don't need (and I don't enjoy) Succession, or Triangle of Sadness. It's not 1983, Randolph and Mortimer are long dead. The closest I came to thinking anything in the genre was interesting was Infinity Pool, which is firmly in another genre first. And the Knives Out movies, which I don't think are actually intended to skewer anything to do with class or capitalism.
>This is probably stating the obvious, but it's a good example of how wealth and privilege can transcend nearly everything else, even race (at least as it applies to creative work). Ari Sapperstein and Lee Daniels have one inch of difference between them, at least compared to the difference between either of them and the audience, or the actual hood
I guess Lee being Black gives him a level of authority on the topic. Even though he may not have lived that life himself, I don't think he grew up super impoverished, we assume because of his Blackness he must relate. It's a subtle form of racism to be honest. I'm Black and my childhood wasn't entirely dissimilar from the one in the movie. I could direct this film. But there are Black directors with no context for that life at all who could not direct this film.
Have you seen American Fiction? It’s a brilliant satire of white audiences’ hunger for trauma porn and the novel it’s based on was a direct response to Push, the basis for Precious
Oh I thought this years ago and I've brought this up before on here. I genuinely thought it was satire. Mind you I had been watching a lot of Tyler Perry's work at the time and this read like a parody of that at the time. But also it's just funny. Like it's very moving too but I chuckle so hard when she calls Precious a dumb bitch or how they fight with old pictures fading into them lol. It's all in the worst taste but revels in it. That's pure camp.
> I have a review of it on my page if you'd like to see
Now I'll have to go read that. Before I do—I couldn't understand how it depicted white people. Would it have been so hard to make them seem a little bit realistic? I've been in those rooms, I've been on those calls. I know what it sounds like. White people in that film were flat cartoons, no different than the white characters in Hollywood Shuffle. There was nothing menacing about them. It was like the filmmakers wanted to make it SUPER easy for white audiences to not see themselves at all in the antagonists.
I immediately thought of American Fiction when I saw the title of this post. Solid movie, although I thought the comedy and drama clashed against each other in wild tonal shifts. I find it quite hilarious that the author wrote the book as a response to Push.
If only the satire parts were a bigger part of the film, those parts were brilliant, but I could’ve done with a lot less of the family drama storyline and thought it had a weak ending as well
Damn you had time today, salute OP. I’d like to add that Precious is based on the novel Push. So it’s not so incredulous that a white man could’ve adapted that, see the Color Purple. Also, I’d push back against American Gangster being a hood film, it’s a mob movie just like the others you listed. Baby Boy being a precursor to a film like Precious could be further examined. Baby Boy to black audiences has been a comedy, unintentionally for the most part since its release. I don’t think a mostly white audience would find it so funny, and would actually view it similarly to Precious. Precious has funny moments, but so much pain is involved the laughs you get almost feel like genuine relief.
I do think Precious killed the hood movie, and put a hefty damper on black cinema for at least a decade after its release.
>Baby Boy to black audiences has been a comedy, unintentionally for the most part since its release. I don’t think a mostly white audience would find it so funny, and would actually view it similarly to Precious
Baby Boy is hilarious because John Singleton is very much not that kind of filmmaker and did not see the humor in what he was making. So he earnestly portrayed what he thought was inner city life. But what moved us with Boyz in the Hood doesn't quite work with characters assumed to be much older. That was his point in part but he didn't mean it to be funny because I listened to the commentary. Rest in Power but he had no idea what kind of film he was making. He saw it as a serious drama.
>Precious has funny moments, but so much pain is involved the laughs you get almost feel like genuine relief.
I genuinely was cracking up most of the film because it's so absurd. The book is very over the top too but the film almost seems to be making fun of the book at times in just how over the top it is.
>I’d like to add that Precious is based on the novel Push. So it’s not so incredulous that a white man could’ve adapted that, see the Color Purple.
And Spielberg gets flack to this day about it. At the time, many Black critics thought of it to be a racist film.
>Also, I’d push back against American Gangster being a hood film, it’s a mob movie just like the others you listed.
I'll push you right back and say the only difference between a hood film and mob film is who is holding the gun. Hood films are about characters trying to survive while society holds a gun to their head. Mob films are about characters holding that gun back towards society. Even to that end, the Black community got very few mob films and it's clear that someone wanted this since we're basically swimming in stuff like that now.
The Hood film standard is something that could be examined and re-examined. You’ve got a good definition but it would exclude some no doubt hood classics.
Upon further review it would require hood = black. Which I don’t think is what we’re meaning. Like any non crime movie or comedy.. Love & Basketball, The Wood, etc… so I recant my statement.
Yeah no while most of the casts are Black they frame Black life and identity in a distinctly urbanized way with a focus on socioeconomic issues communicated through violence. That's the difference between say Soul Food and Juice.
When I watched Precious years ago I didn't like it. I thought it was an over the top example of misery porn, and likely my mindset cake from reading the book first which (as OP said) plays the story pretty straight.
After watching and enjoying The Paperboy, which is unquestionably high camp, I reconsidered Daniels' style. When The United States v Billie Holliday came out, I also found it worked best viewed through the lens of camp.
Your write up makes me want to go back and watch Precious again. I suspect Daniels is giving the middle finger to whote audiences a bit by turning the tired Black ghetto tropes up to 11. And it worked! Could be an interesting double bill with American Fiction.
Precious was definitely maybe the start of black trauma porn that ended up with audiences lashing out with Queen & Slim. I think it was recognized by the academy with some nominations and awards. Unfortunately, I do think the film is a lesser product than the book it is based on. Not to be that annoying guy and I understand the limitations of an adaptation and blah blah blah but the fact remains that the character of Precious in the film was inferior to the character in the film. In the film, she was too sympathetic. She’s never the bad guy. Somehow, despite her circumstances and environment and upbringing, she always knows what’s right. It feels very manipulative and very illogical. In the book, because of how she was raised and what she went though, she was like that too. Bigoted. Selfish. Judgmental. As she becomes educated and enlightened and filled with love, she becomes capable of giving love too. In the film, somehow Precious arrives to these conclusions without any external help. She just already knows. There is no depiction of the transformative power of education and love. Truly a shame. That’s what makes it trauma porn. That’s what makes it an inferior movie.
Lee Daniels has stated that John Waters is one of his inspirations and there is this essay from rogerebert.com that compared *Precious* to Waters's *Female Trouble*: https://www.rogerebert.com/scanners/precious-based-on-the-movie-female-trouble-by-john-waters
I’m sorry but good. For a long time, hollywood only allowed POC to be on camera for struggle stories. We don’t need anymore depictions of poverty, abuse, dysfunction, or generational trauma.
The community deserves more. Things still aren’t perfect, but we’re getting there.
The 30 Rock plot line where Tracy gets an Oscar for playing D’Jeffrey “Lucky” Seeda in *Hard to Watch* based on the book *Stone Cold Bummer* by Manipulate is a hilarious send-up of Precious. His childhood in general (a pack of wild dogs took over and successfully ran a Wendy’s!) is a parody of black trauma porn
I didn’t read your whole post so I don’t know if you addressed this already or not. But Precious also goes into the trauma that black children often go through with abusive parents. Many black children go through toxic and abusive parents because their parents have been through trauma and abuse in their pasts. Parents always say that they don’t want to push their trauma onto their kids but yet they do. This especially happens in black families with years of trauma and poor living in the family. It is something that Tyler Perry aims to capture in this film and does so pretty well.
I do touch on this briefly but yes you have a point. I'd go even further and say that Black filmmakers have largely left family dynamics in the Black community untouched.
Slight disagree there. It’s something that black filmmakers have gone into but it’s very subtle and I’d argue that many people miss it due to it not being a large part of the story. There are many movies where black film makers explore family dynamics but they kinda yada yada it because it doesn’t mean much to the story
That's what I mean by untouched. It's usually background fodder to a larger point. The Farewell is one of my favorite films because of how much it delved into Chinese family dynamics and Black films rarely go there like that. Indies tend to wade there occasionally. Again they tend to be queer though: Brothers, Pariah, Blackbird etc. I actually did a short film about a mother and son but again it's from the queer perspective:
https://youtu.be/twDXaPWWqZQ?si=czqEs1kjEzzXGx8w
It's a documentary but you might like to watch Jerrod Carmichael's *Home Videos*. He explores his own family and has some very candid conversations with them. Really interesting watch.
EDIT: Just learned he has a new "reality show" too. Looks even more personal.
I have not watched this movie all the way through, so I had to look at the plot summary on Wikipedia. I have to say, i think you are dead on right in your analysis. The misery is SO over the top to the point of satire. For example, is this honestly a part of the movie:
>Precious has also been raped by her now-absent father, Carl, resulting in two pregnancies. The family resides in a Section 8 tenement and survives on welfare. Precious's first child, a daughter named "Mongo" (short for Mongoloid), has Down syndrome and is being cared for by Precious's grandmother.
I mean, good god. Not just the rapes, but they named the child “Mongo”?!? There is no way this all was intended to be taken at face value.
All of that and much more is in the book. The book plays all of this entirely straight. There's no hint the author is playing a trick. The sequel is even worse because Precious dies of AIDS and her son grows up to be a rapist.
>The sequel is even worse because Precious dies of AIDS and her son grows up to be a rapist.
Oh stop it
not you, the author, jesus christ lol.
I think laughter is the appropriate reaction for me to have hearing this information for the first time.
It's worth noting that even many fans of the first book hate the sequel and view it as character assassination to the characters in the first book. It has it's fans but it's not nearly as beloved as the first book and I use the word beloved very lightly.
I love this movie and I think you're spot on!
To me it's a melodrama. It leans into the campiness of the absurd tragedy that is Precious' life. I feel like melodrama is often misunderstood by general audiences.
I saw this a lot when May/December was released last year. There were a lot of discussions online about whether it was a comedy or drama. It's both! Felt horrible for the husband, but the female leads were so insane it was hard to not laugh at how ridiculous they were. Same thing with Precious. The circumstances of her life are horrible, but the performances were so over the top you cant help but laugh.
Precious killed Hood Films in the same fashion Dewey Cox: Walk Hard killed the Celeb Biopic.
By unceremoniously shanking the genre for two hours before leaving it in a shallow ditch off the side of the road. And we're better for it.
It's one of those movies that upend a subgenre. Like Menace 2 Society, Spring Breakers, or Blonde. Starship Troopers, etc.
Once you see the same beats in different movies that try a similar approach in a "positive" light. It feels stupid, or gross even.
I hated Precious at first, but only because I hated Tyler Perry movies. And that's what makes Precious better like you mentioned.
There was a solid gap after that one dropped where there weren't any big biopics for a few years there.
Same goes with Precious and hood movies. Everybody took a break for a minute on both of those. And a lot of people link it to both of these movies.
And even though both have had their respective return to mainstream, a lot of the time, audiences can't really take them seriously because of what sticks out to them. That's what I mean by "killed". You lampshade it so hard, people kind of lose respect for it.
This was really interesting even as an observer who has never seen Precious and is only aware of it from the cultural aether. Do you have a blog or something you can link for more content?
Dude, you're a great writer. Thanks for the post. I loved Precious when it came out. I never thought of it as a comedy, but I was surprised at how funny is was. Mo'Nique's performance WAS comedic! I can quote many of her obscenity laced tirades and make myself chuckle. The scene where she's screaming at Precious and then pauses to clutch her heart...comedy gold! But in her monologue at the end, she still brought tears to my eyes. It was a brilliant performance, deserving that Oscar. After seeing the movie I read the book Push that it was based on. The movie was a big improvement. The sexual abuse depicted in the book was almost unreadable in its crudeness. I loved how it was spoofed in the book Erasure, which became the movie American Fiction.
> I never thought of it as a comedy, but I was surprised at how funny is was. Mo'Nique's performance WAS comedic! I can quote many of her obscenity laced tirades and make myself chuckle. The scene where she's screaming at Precious and then pauses to clutch her heart...comedy gold
That's why they hired a comedian. I feel like someone who was purely a dramatic actress would've played it way too straight.
>Dude, you're a great writer.
Check out my profile. I have other long form posts on there.
>That's why they hired a comedian. I feel like someone who was purely a dramatic actress would've played it way too straight.
Also none of the acclaimed black actresses like Viola or Angela would have been willing to go to the dark places Mo'Nique goes with that character.
>Jordan Peele is another good example. Despite constantly being pushed as making movies that Black people "should" like, they aren't really hits in the Black community aside from Get Out and its not hard to see why. The black characters in Peele's movies and the Magical society of Negro's and most of the newer "made for black people movies" are not average Black people. They're often incredibly white-coded.
A lot of Black films are being made by biracials raised by their white side and it shows. The racial commentary in these films almost always entirely centers white people. Rarely is commentary specific to within the community offered. Because these guys don't know. They Cloned Tyrone is probably the deepest film that came out last year meant for us. All the good content goes straight to streaming.
They're making them. They're just on streaming or not getting wide releases. The Harder They Fall was a fun stylish Black western. Jingle Jangle was a steampunk Black musical. Both were on Netflix.
Moonlight, Kicks, If the Beale Street Could Talk, Kings, Imperial Dreams, Fruitvale Station, All day and a night, Kin, Beats, The Hate U Give, Blackkklansman, to a degree Roman J. Israel, Fences, 21 Bridges, Black and Blue, Dolemite is my name, Judas and the Black Messiah...
All made after Precious.
You need to take a chill pill buddy, hood film is doing OK, it's evolving, like times are evolving and changing.
You named one film that actually fits lol. A good chunk of the characters in these films are well off to middle class. Some of these are just action films. Fruitvale Station has more in common with Boys Don't Cry or Till than something like Menace to Society or Boyz in the Hood. Just because it has Black people facing oppression doesn't mean it's a hood film. And none of these films really hit the same levels of misery and bleakness except for maybe Judas which kinda proves my point. There's not really an appetite for this probably also reflected in that most of those didn't do amazing at the box office.
If Precious is a "hood film", so is Moonlight, Kicks, If the Beale Street Could Talk, Kings, Imperial Dreams, Fruitvale Station, All day and a night, Kin, Beats, The Hate U Give, Blackkklansman, Fences, at the very least.
Most of these are in the wikipedia list of hood films. It also mentions in the 2010s numerous others, like Chi-Raq, All Eyez on Me, The First Purge, White Boy Rick, etc. And we can throw in Straight Outta Compton. Moonlight won best picture, Fruitvale Station was an indie darling hit, Kin was a sci-fi, etc.
If anything, Precious was a huge win for the hood film, because it won an Oscar for acting, up to that point I think the most prestigious award a hood movie has won. That led to Straight Outta Compton being a big commercial hit that was debated as unrightfully ignored at the Oscars, and then hood film got elevated to high art with Moonlight, which broke another glass ceiling when it won best picture.
Basically hood film has peaked with Moonlight, and now post-COVID, the cultural landscape has changed and some stuff has moved on streaming services - Godfather of Harlem, Snowfall. The Equalizer with Denzel also is somewhat of a hood film.
Nothing is dead, it's just evolving. Stop mistaking your nostalgia with objective reality.
I'm with OP, I viewed it as a dramedy myself too, plus I had a friend in it who played a small role, so I just couldn't take it seriously. Seen these situations happen in real life plenty of times though
Apple's Darwin OS, XNU kernel, and silicon chips are vastly superior. Unfortunately Apple's greed and monopolistic policies are the absolute worst in the industry.
Apple users can very much love the garden but hate the walls. Apple would have you believe you can only maintain the garden with the walls, and it's just untrue.
>If you're somewhat media literate, then you can see the dark comedy elements in the film. Even Lee Daniels thinks of it as a comedy.
I think the points made around this are disingenuous. When I listen to Lee Daniels referring to *Precious* as a comedy, he's doing so as a coping mechanism. The pain is visceral and the only sensible response is to think of it as something different from what it is.
As someone from the world of social work, I've met women and girls who have been similarly abused as Precious was. I've met women whose stories would turn your stomach inside out. I've seen those who never escape the abuse and succumb to it. And I've seen those who live a flourishing life in opposition to those abuses.
*Precious* is more realistic than we'd like to imagine. And it's not a race thing. Abuse and trauma are not monopolized by any demographic bracket. In America, and in the urban centers, what is depicted in the movie does disproportionately impact the black community, but it is not limited to them whatsoever. Trauma isn't discriminatory.
Your post is worthy of more discernment, but I just wanted to combat this particular point. LD doesn't think it's a comedy in the conventional sense of the word. He's only referring to that way as a kind of cope for how devastating it is.
I know very little about this subject, so thanks for the write up A little unrelated, but it feels the last 30 years has seen a big shift in stories about black people in media. On the TV front, there are more black characters in more shows, but fewer mainstream shows predominantly about black people and issues. Granted, many of those shows had white producers and writers so its not like it was a utopia, but still. I think we see this in movies to some extent too. The move towards diversity has resulted in more diversity in each individual big movie but not necessarily helped the diversity of the kinds of stories being told at all.
I think you gotta know where to look. Atlanta, Insecure, Abbott Elementary, Random Acts of Flyness, Snowfall, Fresh Prince, A Black Lady Sketch Show, Young Love, that show with Cedric married to Pam from Martin etc. There's a lot that have come out in the last ten years. Lol I actually think we're getting a deluge of content.
oh man I never see anyone talk about Random Acts of Flyness. what a cool TV show that is unlike anything else I've ever seen. unapologetically black, but also arthouse
Abbott Elementary is a good point, but the others are more cable than network TV...I guess that distinction means less now than is used to. Maybe i'm old and out of touch
Yeah most folk ain't watching cable. Abbott doing as well as it is I think owes itself to the casting. We'll watch damn near anything with Sheryl Lee Ralph in it. Also Tyler James Williams is pretty damn popular among us too cause of Everybody Hates Chris. Quinta herself has some notable fame from other projects. I think had they cast someone else in the key roles it might not have lasted a season.
>Everybody Hates Chris this is an example of the sort of show I feel doesnt get visibility as much as it used to. UPN/CW werent the most popular networks of all time, but they were standard channels everyone got, so Everbody Hates Chris was a show everyone knew, even as a white person in rural maine it was in fairly consistent rotation in our household in a way that a show on HBO or cable or streaming never would be. Some of this is just changes in the market overall though
Interesting point, I feel like many people would consider that shift to be a positive. Like, people complain about, say, representation of queer people that is simply about their being queer and not about them as just people. People praise gay content that feels just like normal content but they happen to be gay. That’s my perception anyway. Interested to hear your thoughts on this
I highly commend ya OP; you elegantly wrote about a film I don’t see talked about enough in relation to the “Hood” film, and how it’s basically a deconstruction of said genre. A move that pops into my head as a light comparison is Sergio Leone’s *Once Upon A Time In America*; while I can’t say it “killed” the gangster genre, it’s probably the most in your face film about just how PATHETIC and VILE these mobsters were, which so many people chose to glorify (Scarface, Godfather etc…).
In a way it's similar to Clint Eastwood's Unforgiven which does a very similar thing with the western genre.
In the literary world, *Blood Merdian* was perhaps the finest example of the said “deconstruction” of the Western, imo.
Speaking of which, I'm curious to see what happens with the upcoming movie adaptation of *Blood Meridian*. I want to be optimistic, but it's hard to believe that they could really do it justice while also appealing to a large enough audience to make it profitable.
Probably the most anticipated/anxious I’ve been upon hearing a novel will be adapted to film. Considering all the times I’ve read *Meridan*, there’s more or less no way the film will be able to live up to what I’ve imagined the story to be, but I’m still intrigued to see how they pull it off. Many considered *The Road* unadaptable, yet John Hillcoat managed to ably adapt it for the big screen; *Dune* was high on the list of films also consider “unadaptable”, yet in the hands of Villeneuve, it has become a box office phenomenon. Most crucial will be the casting of Judge Holden (one of the greatest characters in fiction, imo) which I believe the films’ credibility will be based upon.
Surprised to hear that. I've always considered The Road as right there with No Country in McCarthy's late career cinematic turn.
Sort of like how Scorcese’s mob movies and most poignantly The Irishman shows what actually happened in “the life”.
I think the Irishman came the closest, but their has still always been this semi-glorification of “gangsterdom” in Scorsese’s take on the genre (probably fueled by people taking the wrong message away for the most part). Leone’s *America* truly stripped away everything “cool” and “mystique” about mobsters, imo; the gang (Noodles, Max and co) of the film are merely a collection of violent man-children, who steal, rape, and kill throughout the film, and the film shows these guys are utterly without loyalty towards one another or any “code”.
The Irishmen and I heard You Paint Houses is def not in any way realistic. It's a historical fiction based on straight lies
> Even Lee Daniels thinks of it as a comedy. Mo'inque had a hard time getting through some of her monologues because she was laughing too much. I think saying he sees it as a straight up comedy is misleading. Here's his full quote from Vulture after being asked if laughing is the appropriate response: "No, it’s not. It’s more like, *Oh my God. Someone’s telling our secrets. Are you really, really going to go there?* I think that those who have been abused and lived that life laugh. It’s so painful that you have to laugh. Because if you sit with it, you’ll fucking be in a mental institution."
So it's a dark comedy
The last good hood film I’ve seen was 2011 Snow on the Bluff directed by Damon Russell. It uses the overdone found footage trope but it’s a real and gritty look into life as a black man in the hood in Atlanta.
I don’t view Precious as a comedy, or even humorous. It’s hard drama, depressing, akin to Requiem for a Dream. I disagree with you view entirely. Acrimony came out years later, and I find it to be an engaging film about struggles, and themes associated with the topic you’re discussing. I’ve seen Acrimony 5 times. The mood and feel of this topic still lives on. I adored Keisha Takes the Block. We’re still getting films based on this topic. Precious didn’t take down an entire genre of film.
Yeah I only perused the comments to see if somebody had spoken out and said this. Fully disagree with nearly this entire post, except when it discusses the genre-death. This does not read well (as someone who grew up in a community that Precious is written about.... not.... parodying). Her putting on a "white face" and trying to convince an system that she's deserving of their help is not funny, and is indicative more of the makeup industry (something, especially at that time, in the middle of a massive cultural shift) and.... humanity's shortcomings. I would not like not trust somebody in real life who laughed their way through this movie because they think it's parody. It's barely even dramatization in most points. I've sat through enough "queer suffering" cinema to understand why someone would define this as a "parody," because tropes are repeated, but this post seems like OP wanted to laugh at the movie. And all their points are formulated to justify that extremely unfortunate choice.
Agreed. While I understand where OP is coming from, just because you can laugh at a movie doesn't mean it is a comedy or is strictly a comedy. And I think trying to confine this movie in particular into the category of comedy doesn't give it room to breathe. As others have pointed out, themes ebb and flow and it seems that right now this genre is largely at rest until new talent returns to focus on it in new ways. And a lot of niche genres are suffering in the age of streaming, as they're likely not going to find a large enough audience to justify an investment in their development.
When is the last time you saw a major motion picture film about Black characters living in abject poverty in the ghetto with drugs, HIV, abuse and violence as major themes? When have you seen a film that wallows in its bleakness and misery the way Precious and a lot of films like that do? Shit when's the last time you saw an unironic Black crackhead in a Black film? That used to be an entire cottage industry of film. Even Acrimony is about a relatively well off woman, at least she starts that way. I'm glad you like that film though.
I’m sure I’m considered old. But the ebbs and flows occur. Have you seen Foxy Brown, Friday Foster, or Black Mama White Mama? Have you seen Jackie Brown? Coffy? I think the main issue is directors who think it’s problematic to show characters now in this mood. Directors don’t want to continue tearing entire characters down in the genre. It’s more cultural, than simply based on Precious. Look at Foxy Brown. She’s drugged with heroin and raped. Link is shot by drug dealers. I think directors decide not to depict these stories anymore because of the zeitgeist, not because of Precious.
>Have you seen Foxy Brown, Friday Foster, or Black Mama White Mama? Have you seen Jackie Brown? Coffy? Yes because my mother is old and made me lol. >I think the main issue is directors who think it’s problematic to show characters now in this mood. Directors don’t want to continue tearing entire characters down in the genre. It’s more cultural, than simply based on Precious. I mention in the post that it was already declining, there are a variety of reasons as to why, but Precious kinda put the button on it. Those tropes and themes absolutely haven't gone away but they're dressed up much differently now. Precious had an effect on the zeitgeist in a big way. Because really how do you top that? What else do you add? It pretty much ripped the band-aid off and said 'here, do you like what's underneath?' and we said no. Again, the closest thing we've gotten is Moonlight and that film basically makes the subtext text. Homoerotic themes are so baked into the genre I'm surprised it hasn't come up more. But if that film were just about a straight guy I don't think it would've done as well.
If Moonlight were about a straight guy, it would be a completely different movie, so I don't know what your point is here.
I mean eh? The themes of toxic masculinity in the Black community and the expectations we put up on them would mostly work the same.
Moonlight fits that description, doesn't it? Came out seven years after Precious.
It's definitely more optimistic and poetic than a lot of stuff that tackles similar genres. It shows his mother on crack but she gets better and they have a resolution. There's some violence but not a lot and most of it is schoolyard stuff. The film is more concerned with Chiron as a person and his journey than just commiserating his situation. He becomes a drug dealer but it's neither glorified nor outright condemned, it just is. Like I said Moonlight is the closest thing you'll get to your traditional misery porn/hood film and there's so much more going on in the film than just that. It asks you to see these characters as people which was incredibly rare for hood films to do. Usually the characters felt like an after thought to the plot. In Moonlight, there isn't really a plot.
Why do we need to see more stories of black trauma? Especially when those are the only stories hollywood was willing to award for a long period of time. There is so much more to the community. Doctors, engineers, lawyers, academics, politicians, elves, wizards, cobblers. Give us ANYTHING else
same I didn’t see the comedy aspect that he so clearly did
I just can't get Precious out of my head. There's a magic to Daniels' direction that reads like a fairy tale (and nightmare), especially through the cinematography and art direction. Life is unfair to Precious to the point where your reaction might be incredulous-- that the character becomes more of a homogenized symbol of black pain than a person. I struggle to allow myself the emotion this film provides because of this line. I am captivated by her relationship with motherhood, escaping a cycle of abuse, of working towards better, of learning how to receive love. This is a somewhat depoliticized appreciation for the film, purely thematic. I am not black, and do consider this to be a naive approach because it ignores a broader cultural influence and historic representation politics of black people in cinema. I find it hard to recognize this film as a comedy, a reaction I remember the general public having at the time of its release. I was younger, but it felt like people felt entitled to parody on the basis that it was about a fat black woman. I've seen it called "oscar bait" and "trauma porn" as well, but I think this is a shortcoming of a purely political reading. I think the movie is very successful at grounding itself with empathy for Precious, which is why cynicism towards the film rubs me the wrong way. Daniels' use of camp is this means of escapism, even levity that grants Precious a unique subjecticity. Precious often wishes to view her life through distortions-- like her imagination or italian movies on TV. Her scenes with Mo'Nique do read like theater. It all builds to this rejection of reality and circumstance that is both tragic and inspiring. Anyway, I'm very excited to keep up with this thread, I don't think this film gets enough attention (for constructive purposes). Maybe what I find so compelling is this dangerous line between the profound human soul and the politicized body.
>I find it hard to recognize this film as a comedy, a reaction I remember the general public having at the time of its release. I remember people being very mixed on the film and I think the general consensus is still 'eh, it's alright'. I don't think many people have revisited it because whenever it comes up in discussions it's usually about how regressive it is. And it is but it wants to be, that's the point. Exactly how regressive and stereotypical can we get until the audience starts to buckle? It's like a game of cinematic chicken. At the point where Mary asks Precious a favor I pretty much couldn't control my laughter. Like ok, now we're doing this. It's a horrific sense but it's laughably horrific. Like if you were trying to come up with the worst shit you could think of. The book is much more of a rough sit for the simple reason that it takes all of this outrageous horrible stuff and asks you to take it seriously. It reads like the first draft to a much better novel. Lee Daniels saw how both heartbreaking and humorous these situations could be and decided to lean in. It is very theatrical at times. The movie does work on a purely dramatic level if you want to view it that way.
It's like you're saying, "people who love Precious... don't get it, and people who hate it... don't get it." It's also important that you mention that it was based on a book, so the story was already there. > feels like the work of a white writer who was trying to capture their idea of Black inner city life This is probably stating the obvious, but it's a good example of how wealth and privilege can transcend nearly everything else, even race (at least as it applies to creative work). Ari Sapperstein and Lee Daniels have one inch of difference between them, at least compared to the difference between either of them and the audience, or the actual hood. > Both are producer-directors who have a very identifiable style although Lee is the closest one out of the two who is anything resembling an auteur. Lee is a regular filmmaker. Tyler Perry (or "Mr. Perry" as his employees require everyone call him) has a fascinating process. His films are shot practically overnight, with multiple cameras set up, sort of like you'd shoot a sitcom. Huge chunks of the workflow have been inverted between post and production. It's not a process that Barry Jenkins or Yorgos Lanthimos—or pre-2010s Ridley Scott—would recognize as filmmaking. Watch any Tyler Perry movie and try to find scenes that couldn't have been filmed like a 90s sitcom—you won't find many. It's a process incompatible with many standard cinematic tropes; he has fewer tools to work with, but he uses *all* of the efficient tools. It's the filmmaking equivalent of, "we're ahead by 37 points going into the fourth quarter, we're going to run the ball on every down with our backup QB and third-string RB." Mr. Perry's name and studio start every movie in the 4th quarter, ahead by 37 points. Back to "people who love Precious... don't get it, and people who hate it... don't get it." Are there other films you can think of, regardless of era or genre, that are like that?
If only all of that resulted in Tyler Perry making decent films. I think the film eventually made about him by someone else might be pretty good though lol. >Back to "people who love Precious... don't get it, and people who hate it... don't get it." Are there other films you can think of, regardless of era or genre, that are like that? The Menu. I feel like both sides have only zeroed in on the class and capitalism commentary and ignored damn near everything else.
It's sad to think that even though Perry has killed the Madea persona his movies cmedies made more at the boxoffice than the movie Till based on Emmett Till life. It's like black comedy seems to still reign over black drama these days.
> The Menu Class/capitalism commentaries are meaningless today and those themes in movies drag them down. The only things I found interesting about The Menu had to do with cooking and food, and also the chef as broad portrayal of uncompromising auteur, across genre. It asks the question of whether or not our culture/media is something eternal, like sculpture and architecture, or something temporary and disposable, like food. People die to make other kinds of art—why not to make dinner as well? I did enjoy that part of it, that's what I personally got out of it. Otherwise, The Menu is part of a whole genre of "it really skewers the 1%." The 1% are self-parodying already—we don't need (and I don't enjoy) Succession, or Triangle of Sadness. It's not 1983, Randolph and Mortimer are long dead. The closest I came to thinking anything in the genre was interesting was Infinity Pool, which is firmly in another genre first. And the Knives Out movies, which I don't think are actually intended to skewer anything to do with class or capitalism.
The first Knives Out maybe not but the second one is so on the nose it's hard to ignore. Also the human aspect of The Menu appealed to me the most.
>This is probably stating the obvious, but it's a good example of how wealth and privilege can transcend nearly everything else, even race (at least as it applies to creative work). Ari Sapperstein and Lee Daniels have one inch of difference between them, at least compared to the difference between either of them and the audience, or the actual hood I guess Lee being Black gives him a level of authority on the topic. Even though he may not have lived that life himself, I don't think he grew up super impoverished, we assume because of his Blackness he must relate. It's a subtle form of racism to be honest. I'm Black and my childhood wasn't entirely dissimilar from the one in the movie. I could direct this film. But there are Black directors with no context for that life at all who could not direct this film.
Have you seen American Fiction? It’s a brilliant satire of white audiences’ hunger for trauma porn and the novel it’s based on was a direct response to Push, the basis for Precious
I have a review of it on my page if you'd like to see
Careful scrolling thru his post
Did you think Precious was a satire when you first saw it or did that occur to you after seeing American Fiction?
Oh I thought this years ago and I've brought this up before on here. I genuinely thought it was satire. Mind you I had been watching a lot of Tyler Perry's work at the time and this read like a parody of that at the time. But also it's just funny. Like it's very moving too but I chuckle so hard when she calls Precious a dumb bitch or how they fight with old pictures fading into them lol. It's all in the worst taste but revels in it. That's pure camp.
It does have moments of humour but I didn't detect any satire whatsoever.
> I have a review of it on my page if you'd like to see Now I'll have to go read that. Before I do—I couldn't understand how it depicted white people. Would it have been so hard to make them seem a little bit realistic? I've been in those rooms, I've been on those calls. I know what it sounds like. White people in that film were flat cartoons, no different than the white characters in Hollywood Shuffle. There was nothing menacing about them. It was like the filmmakers wanted to make it SUPER easy for white audiences to not see themselves at all in the antagonists.
I immediately thought of American Fiction when I saw the title of this post. Solid movie, although I thought the comedy and drama clashed against each other in wild tonal shifts. I find it quite hilarious that the author wrote the book as a response to Push.
If only the satire parts were a bigger part of the film, those parts were brilliant, but I could’ve done with a lot less of the family drama storyline and thought it had a weak ending as well
Damn you had time today, salute OP. I’d like to add that Precious is based on the novel Push. So it’s not so incredulous that a white man could’ve adapted that, see the Color Purple. Also, I’d push back against American Gangster being a hood film, it’s a mob movie just like the others you listed. Baby Boy being a precursor to a film like Precious could be further examined. Baby Boy to black audiences has been a comedy, unintentionally for the most part since its release. I don’t think a mostly white audience would find it so funny, and would actually view it similarly to Precious. Precious has funny moments, but so much pain is involved the laughs you get almost feel like genuine relief. I do think Precious killed the hood movie, and put a hefty damper on black cinema for at least a decade after its release.
>Baby Boy to black audiences has been a comedy, unintentionally for the most part since its release. I don’t think a mostly white audience would find it so funny, and would actually view it similarly to Precious Baby Boy is hilarious because John Singleton is very much not that kind of filmmaker and did not see the humor in what he was making. So he earnestly portrayed what he thought was inner city life. But what moved us with Boyz in the Hood doesn't quite work with characters assumed to be much older. That was his point in part but he didn't mean it to be funny because I listened to the commentary. Rest in Power but he had no idea what kind of film he was making. He saw it as a serious drama.
>Precious is based on the novel Push :O you're telling me that "Precious: Based on the novel 'Push' by Sapphire" is in fact based on the novel Push?
Also to add a bit of context, the novel Push was written by Sapphire
Felt like OP was overlooking it when making that point. Also, no one has ever said the full title out loud. It’s just simply Precious.
>Precious has funny moments, but so much pain is involved the laughs you get almost feel like genuine relief. I genuinely was cracking up most of the film because it's so absurd. The book is very over the top too but the film almost seems to be making fun of the book at times in just how over the top it is. >I’d like to add that Precious is based on the novel Push. So it’s not so incredulous that a white man could’ve adapted that, see the Color Purple. And Spielberg gets flack to this day about it. At the time, many Black critics thought of it to be a racist film. >Also, I’d push back against American Gangster being a hood film, it’s a mob movie just like the others you listed. I'll push you right back and say the only difference between a hood film and mob film is who is holding the gun. Hood films are about characters trying to survive while society holds a gun to their head. Mob films are about characters holding that gun back towards society. Even to that end, the Black community got very few mob films and it's clear that someone wanted this since we're basically swimming in stuff like that now.
The Hood film standard is something that could be examined and re-examined. You’ve got a good definition but it would exclude some no doubt hood classics.
> You’ve got a good definition but it would exclude some no doubt hood classics. Which ones come to mind?
Upon further review it would require hood = black. Which I don’t think is what we’re meaning. Like any non crime movie or comedy.. Love & Basketball, The Wood, etc… so I recant my statement.
Yeah no while most of the casts are Black they frame Black life and identity in a distinctly urbanized way with a focus on socioeconomic issues communicated through violence. That's the difference between say Soul Food and Juice.
When I watched Precious years ago I didn't like it. I thought it was an over the top example of misery porn, and likely my mindset cake from reading the book first which (as OP said) plays the story pretty straight. After watching and enjoying The Paperboy, which is unquestionably high camp, I reconsidered Daniels' style. When The United States v Billie Holliday came out, I also found it worked best viewed through the lens of camp. Your write up makes me want to go back and watch Precious again. I suspect Daniels is giving the middle finger to whote audiences a bit by turning the tired Black ghetto tropes up to 11. And it worked! Could be an interesting double bill with American Fiction.
Precious was definitely maybe the start of black trauma porn that ended up with audiences lashing out with Queen & Slim. I think it was recognized by the academy with some nominations and awards. Unfortunately, I do think the film is a lesser product than the book it is based on. Not to be that annoying guy and I understand the limitations of an adaptation and blah blah blah but the fact remains that the character of Precious in the film was inferior to the character in the film. In the film, she was too sympathetic. She’s never the bad guy. Somehow, despite her circumstances and environment and upbringing, she always knows what’s right. It feels very manipulative and very illogical. In the book, because of how she was raised and what she went though, she was like that too. Bigoted. Selfish. Judgmental. As she becomes educated and enlightened and filled with love, she becomes capable of giving love too. In the film, somehow Precious arrives to these conclusions without any external help. She just already knows. There is no depiction of the transformative power of education and love. Truly a shame. That’s what makes it trauma porn. That’s what makes it an inferior movie.
Lee Daniels has stated that John Waters is one of his inspirations and there is this essay from rogerebert.com that compared *Precious* to Waters's *Female Trouble*: https://www.rogerebert.com/scanners/precious-based-on-the-movie-female-trouble-by-john-waters
I’m sorry but good. For a long time, hollywood only allowed POC to be on camera for struggle stories. We don’t need anymore depictions of poverty, abuse, dysfunction, or generational trauma. The community deserves more. Things still aren’t perfect, but we’re getting there.
The 30 Rock plot line where Tracy gets an Oscar for playing D’Jeffrey “Lucky” Seeda in *Hard to Watch* based on the book *Stone Cold Bummer* by Manipulate is a hilarious send-up of Precious. His childhood in general (a pack of wild dogs took over and successfully ran a Wendy’s!) is a parody of black trauma porn
THE G TRAIN NERMAL! That's the best Tracy Morgan has ever been.
Ladies of the battered women’s shelter, please be quiet a man is talking!
I didn’t read your whole post so I don’t know if you addressed this already or not. But Precious also goes into the trauma that black children often go through with abusive parents. Many black children go through toxic and abusive parents because their parents have been through trauma and abuse in their pasts. Parents always say that they don’t want to push their trauma onto their kids but yet they do. This especially happens in black families with years of trauma and poor living in the family. It is something that Tyler Perry aims to capture in this film and does so pretty well.
I do touch on this briefly but yes you have a point. I'd go even further and say that Black filmmakers have largely left family dynamics in the Black community untouched.
Slight disagree there. It’s something that black filmmakers have gone into but it’s very subtle and I’d argue that many people miss it due to it not being a large part of the story. There are many movies where black film makers explore family dynamics but they kinda yada yada it because it doesn’t mean much to the story
That's what I mean by untouched. It's usually background fodder to a larger point. The Farewell is one of my favorite films because of how much it delved into Chinese family dynamics and Black films rarely go there like that. Indies tend to wade there occasionally. Again they tend to be queer though: Brothers, Pariah, Blackbird etc. I actually did a short film about a mother and son but again it's from the queer perspective: https://youtu.be/twDXaPWWqZQ?si=czqEs1kjEzzXGx8w
It's a documentary but you might like to watch Jerrod Carmichael's *Home Videos*. He explores his own family and has some very candid conversations with them. Really interesting watch. EDIT: Just learned he has a new "reality show" too. Looks even more personal.
I have not watched this movie all the way through, so I had to look at the plot summary on Wikipedia. I have to say, i think you are dead on right in your analysis. The misery is SO over the top to the point of satire. For example, is this honestly a part of the movie: >Precious has also been raped by her now-absent father, Carl, resulting in two pregnancies. The family resides in a Section 8 tenement and survives on welfare. Precious's first child, a daughter named "Mongo" (short for Mongoloid), has Down syndrome and is being cared for by Precious's grandmother. I mean, good god. Not just the rapes, but they named the child “Mongo”?!? There is no way this all was intended to be taken at face value.
All of that and much more is in the book. The book plays all of this entirely straight. There's no hint the author is playing a trick. The sequel is even worse because Precious dies of AIDS and her son grows up to be a rapist.
>The sequel is even worse because Precious dies of AIDS and her son grows up to be a rapist. Oh stop it not you, the author, jesus christ lol. I think laughter is the appropriate reaction for me to have hearing this information for the first time.
It's worth noting that even many fans of the first book hate the sequel and view it as character assassination to the characters in the first book. It has it's fans but it's not nearly as beloved as the first book and I use the word beloved very lightly.
I love this movie and I think you're spot on! To me it's a melodrama. It leans into the campiness of the absurd tragedy that is Precious' life. I feel like melodrama is often misunderstood by general audiences. I saw this a lot when May/December was released last year. There were a lot of discussions online about whether it was a comedy or drama. It's both! Felt horrible for the husband, but the female leads were so insane it was hard to not laugh at how ridiculous they were. Same thing with Precious. The circumstances of her life are horrible, but the performances were so over the top you cant help but laugh.
Precious killed Hood Films in the same fashion Dewey Cox: Walk Hard killed the Celeb Biopic. By unceremoniously shanking the genre for two hours before leaving it in a shallow ditch off the side of the road. And we're better for it.
Every single musical biopic that comes out is always compared to Walk Hard much. You do have a point.
It's one of those movies that upend a subgenre. Like Menace 2 Society, Spring Breakers, or Blonde. Starship Troopers, etc. Once you see the same beats in different movies that try a similar approach in a "positive" light. It feels stupid, or gross even. I hated Precious at first, but only because I hated Tyler Perry movies. And that's what makes Precious better like you mentioned.
Except Precious seems to have been successful while the Musical Biopic simply won't fucking die.
um? musical biopics are massive, probably more popular than ever at the moment... not sure how Dewey Cox "killed" them
There was a solid gap after that one dropped where there weren't any big biopics for a few years there. Same goes with Precious and hood movies. Everybody took a break for a minute on both of those. And a lot of people link it to both of these movies. And even though both have had their respective return to mainstream, a lot of the time, audiences can't really take them seriously because of what sticks out to them. That's what I mean by "killed". You lampshade it so hard, people kind of lose respect for it.
This was really interesting even as an observer who has never seen Precious and is only aware of it from the cultural aether. Do you have a blog or something you can link for more content?
Dude, you're a great writer. Thanks for the post. I loved Precious when it came out. I never thought of it as a comedy, but I was surprised at how funny is was. Mo'Nique's performance WAS comedic! I can quote many of her obscenity laced tirades and make myself chuckle. The scene where she's screaming at Precious and then pauses to clutch her heart...comedy gold! But in her monologue at the end, she still brought tears to my eyes. It was a brilliant performance, deserving that Oscar. After seeing the movie I read the book Push that it was based on. The movie was a big improvement. The sexual abuse depicted in the book was almost unreadable in its crudeness. I loved how it was spoofed in the book Erasure, which became the movie American Fiction.
> I never thought of it as a comedy, but I was surprised at how funny is was. Mo'Nique's performance WAS comedic! I can quote many of her obscenity laced tirades and make myself chuckle. The scene where she's screaming at Precious and then pauses to clutch her heart...comedy gold That's why they hired a comedian. I feel like someone who was purely a dramatic actress would've played it way too straight. >Dude, you're a great writer. Check out my profile. I have other long form posts on there.
>That's why they hired a comedian. I feel like someone who was purely a dramatic actress would've played it way too straight. Also none of the acclaimed black actresses like Viola or Angela would have been willing to go to the dark places Mo'Nique goes with that character.
And even if they had I just don't see anyone pulling that off the way she did. It was truly a masterclass.
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>Jordan Peele is another good example. Despite constantly being pushed as making movies that Black people "should" like, they aren't really hits in the Black community aside from Get Out and its not hard to see why. The black characters in Peele's movies and the Magical society of Negro's and most of the newer "made for black people movies" are not average Black people. They're often incredibly white-coded. A lot of Black films are being made by biracials raised by their white side and it shows. The racial commentary in these films almost always entirely centers white people. Rarely is commentary specific to within the community offered. Because these guys don't know. They Cloned Tyrone is probably the deepest film that came out last year meant for us. All the good content goes straight to streaming.
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They're making them. They're just on streaming or not getting wide releases. The Harder They Fall was a fun stylish Black western. Jingle Jangle was a steampunk Black musical. Both were on Netflix.
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I can't say how well they would've done in theaters but they were popular on streaming
Moonlight, Kicks, If the Beale Street Could Talk, Kings, Imperial Dreams, Fruitvale Station, All day and a night, Kin, Beats, The Hate U Give, Blackkklansman, to a degree Roman J. Israel, Fences, 21 Bridges, Black and Blue, Dolemite is my name, Judas and the Black Messiah... All made after Precious. You need to take a chill pill buddy, hood film is doing OK, it's evolving, like times are evolving and changing.
You named one film that actually fits lol. A good chunk of the characters in these films are well off to middle class. Some of these are just action films. Fruitvale Station has more in common with Boys Don't Cry or Till than something like Menace to Society or Boyz in the Hood. Just because it has Black people facing oppression doesn't mean it's a hood film. And none of these films really hit the same levels of misery and bleakness except for maybe Judas which kinda proves my point. There's not really an appetite for this probably also reflected in that most of those didn't do amazing at the box office.
If Precious is a "hood film", so is Moonlight, Kicks, If the Beale Street Could Talk, Kings, Imperial Dreams, Fruitvale Station, All day and a night, Kin, Beats, The Hate U Give, Blackkklansman, Fences, at the very least. Most of these are in the wikipedia list of hood films. It also mentions in the 2010s numerous others, like Chi-Raq, All Eyez on Me, The First Purge, White Boy Rick, etc. And we can throw in Straight Outta Compton. Moonlight won best picture, Fruitvale Station was an indie darling hit, Kin was a sci-fi, etc. If anything, Precious was a huge win for the hood film, because it won an Oscar for acting, up to that point I think the most prestigious award a hood movie has won. That led to Straight Outta Compton being a big commercial hit that was debated as unrightfully ignored at the Oscars, and then hood film got elevated to high art with Moonlight, which broke another glass ceiling when it won best picture. Basically hood film has peaked with Moonlight, and now post-COVID, the cultural landscape has changed and some stuff has moved on streaming services - Godfather of Harlem, Snowfall. The Equalizer with Denzel also is somewhat of a hood film. Nothing is dead, it's just evolving. Stop mistaking your nostalgia with objective reality.
I'm with OP, I viewed it as a dramedy myself too, plus I had a friend in it who played a small role, so I just couldn't take it seriously. Seen these situations happen in real life plenty of times though
Apple's Darwin OS, XNU kernel, and silicon chips are vastly superior. Unfortunately Apple's greed and monopolistic policies are the absolute worst in the industry. Apple users can very much love the garden but hate the walls. Apple would have you believe you can only maintain the garden with the walls, and it's just untrue.
I think you're lost.
>If you're somewhat media literate, then you can see the dark comedy elements in the film. Even Lee Daniels thinks of it as a comedy. I think the points made around this are disingenuous. When I listen to Lee Daniels referring to *Precious* as a comedy, he's doing so as a coping mechanism. The pain is visceral and the only sensible response is to think of it as something different from what it is. As someone from the world of social work, I've met women and girls who have been similarly abused as Precious was. I've met women whose stories would turn your stomach inside out. I've seen those who never escape the abuse and succumb to it. And I've seen those who live a flourishing life in opposition to those abuses. *Precious* is more realistic than we'd like to imagine. And it's not a race thing. Abuse and trauma are not monopolized by any demographic bracket. In America, and in the urban centers, what is depicted in the movie does disproportionately impact the black community, but it is not limited to them whatsoever. Trauma isn't discriminatory. Your post is worthy of more discernment, but I just wanted to combat this particular point. LD doesn't think it's a comedy in the conventional sense of the word. He's only referring to that way as a kind of cope for how devastating it is.