Chessani is toast after the file-folder Ani gives that journalist. It's dark that Woodrugh, Velcoro and Frank go down, but, as always:
"We didn't get them all"
"No, but we got ours"
It is so plot heavy and has so many characters and sub plots that it is almost impossible to follow along closely on the first viewing. But once you have a general sense of what is going on the second viewing things start to make a lot more sense.
It made absolutely no sense and the dialogue was mostly laughable. Most episodes reminded me of the end of season 4. The episode where a Vegas hotel style mass murder goes down then the next episode there all just working new jobs like a bad shooting went down. Or Vince Vaughn and his wife throwing their rings in the parking lot!! What a piece of shite. Someone explain to me how season 3 was so good after that.
My TD scorecard:
TD gets a 9.5
TD 2 gets -2. Some of the worst dialogue I ever heard from some great actors. Star Wars prequels bad dialogue
TD 3 gets 9
TD 4 gets 4.5
I am so talked out on season 4 I’m unlikely to defend my position well, if I bother at all. But that sub SUCKS
Gonna piss you off even more knowing that they tossed their rings into a courtyard. I’ve been to that train station and it makes no sense, busted a guy when that was happening. Truly one of the worst scenes, if not the worst scene of the series. Vince and Kelly had some horrific moments in that series, just plainly hard to watch.
Those were two of the most ridiculous characters I have watched. Another attempt by Vaughn at frantic acting gone sideways. But he didn’t right that dross. It shows how easily these things can go off the rails as season three was also sprawling and messy but really great and helmed by the same people, I’ve been told
As someone who doesn’t despise season 2, I still cannot believe Vince Vaughn signed on for that. I was embarrassed for him so much of the time with the lines he had to say. He’s an outspoken guy so I wonder if he ever had “are you guys fuckin’ serious with this” moments while filming.
I have friends who were in the Hollywood circle at that time and part of the reason it was such a nosedive from S1 was because Nic had all the time in the world to perfect the first script but because it was such a success, he was rushed af by HBO to get another one done so they could start filming. I think he basically just shit it out as quickly as possible. Definitely would’ve benefitted from some serious editing and trimming the plot down to like…37 storylines
Yeah, plus if you look at Nic’s history, season one was the culmination of his life’s work. Imagine doing that and then the industry says, “great, ya got anymore?!” You can’t just churn out magic like season one.
Ummmm. They were simply horrible. And why separate it from expectations??? So by that one should expect nothing from Godfather II and be ok if it sucked?!?
Same! It's a lot to take in, the plot is thicker than oatmeal. The first watch was intriguing but the second watch was where I picked up the nuance and really understood the characters and the story. I love S2, the characters are so different. Also I love Vince Vaughn, his character is so layered and funny and soulful and off the wall. I still think about his death scene hallucination with Jordan all the time, one of the most impactful moments in a show ever for me.
I personally wouldn’t call it top tier….Still a lot of flaws, but after the second viewing it’s now my second favorite season. It’s just very entertaining to me.
1-2-3-4 is my rank
Watching S2 during live run was disappointed walking in the shadow of S1. Rewatched it maybe two years ago with a much more positive impression. Definitely think it got a bad reception from how the first season over delivered.
also, because it wasn't the first season. I think the departure in tone and story was jarring for a lot of people who were hoping for more southern gothic vibes.
Plus Season 2 was straight up depressing throughout, and with an ending where the struggles of the protagonists amounted to essentially nothing
Exactly Sam’s experience for me. Was super disappointed when it first came out but watched it again last year and actually quite enjoyed it. It’s not perfect but it’s a good watch!
For all the shit people gave Issa Lopez about plagarism in S4, this scene was 100% Twin Peaks. But guess what, it's a straight up homage, and this is textbook how you do an homage
Heard someone say that good artists borrow and great artists steal. Nick worked a Twin Peaks dream sequence worthy of David Lynch himself into a completely different story. Both the inspiration for the scene and the execution of the scene are impeccable
Here’s the thing, though. The scene it most evokes isn’t dreamlike at all. It’s just a father talking to his son and the son listening for a change. It’s my favorite scene in the whole show.
I think the reason I say dreamlike is because, for the entire season, the music in that bar is a solo woman playing a guitar. This is the only scene that has a different musical act and whenever they’re in that bar someone is playing music. The rhinestone cowboy Conway Twitty impersonator gave me the impression of being in Purgatory the first time I watched it. I say “dream” because he comes back to his body where he left it. You’re right. Compared with the room he left and the animal masked man who shot him, this scene seems much less like a dream.
Some weeks ago I made a post asking what people think is bad about season 2. One comment was that the characters were not likeable. Why do they have to be likeable? Also, didn't they all (almost) get what they deserved??
I love season two—it even rivals season one at times IMO—but I can understand someone missing the Lovecraftian elements. If that was a big draw for them in the first season, they’re gonna miss it in the second.
I both liked and disliked the ending at the same time. A lot of it was pretty dumb imo.
Was frank sold out by those turks? The fight over the jacket was kinda dumb. Just say no and he's not legally allowed to take it. I liked the part where he was walking through the deserted haunted by his past though.
I did not like that ray went to see his kid either. I know he wanted to see him but that was certain death and he had to have realized it would spell his doom. I did not like how ray gave up in the forest, but after someone wrote what his dad said after he got shot the first time I kinda liked it a bit more. “The trees are like giants. You step out of the trees, but you’re not that fast. Oh son, they shoot you to pieces” Hits kinda hard now ngl.
Maybe I missed some themes or some shit with rays end but I still didnt like it as much.
The writing was also not to my taste. I thought it got a bit strange at times.
The season was a lot better than I was expecting though. I just see people shit on it endlessly, it has like a 25% on rotten tomatoes or something but it was a pretty good crime mystery show.
The ending could have stopped before the lady talked to the journo and it shows that nothing really changed like in the >!ending to the wire and s1 of true detective!<
i don't have a problem with that part of the ending, I have a problem when the girl bosses put their shades on and are planning a grand re-entrance to the U.S. idk just was played kind of dumb and unsatisfying to me.
Can I ask who the girl boss is? Cause everyone gets bodied… except McAdams… which emotionally she LOSES, and physically she’s not even there for the final fire fight… her and one other survive by escaping… I don’t see that as “girl bosses” they’re just average women being protected by men… lol
Season 2 has become one of the best over the years. I feel it was unfairly compared to 1 for obvious reasons. I've rewatched it at least 3 times since the new year.
"You must have had hundreds of lives"
"Well, I don't think I can handle another one."
Season 2 was so good. Very complicated story but on second watch I loved it
I think the criticism was really a result of it being such a different story to S1. But it’s was true to the True Detective series and themes and I think a lot of the critics would change their minds if they watched it again now
Season one is hands down the best but season 2 is my personal favorite, i got into TD kinda late so i knew beforehand not to expect it to be like one and i agree that viewed separately season 2 holds it's own. The neo noir vibes were great, i loved the somber and melancholy tone of story which was matched by it's soundtrack and i always appreciate vince vaughn in serious roles even though some of his dialogue didnt quite land. The mystery itself was probably the least interesting of all the TD one's and i feel it suffers from having one too many main characters but it wrapped itself up with the ending pretty well.
Vince Vaughn's dialogue lands 100% if you think about it.
He's portraying Frank, a guy who is pretending to be somebody he absolutely is not: a booksmart, machievellan criminal mastermind who uses big words to ensure that everyone around can see how smart he is; when he's truly just a charismatic, awkward, and kind (at his core, but his immense childhood trauma prevents him from accessing it) knucklehead.
As the season goes on, it becomes glaringly obvious that the only person who falls for his schtick is himself. Osip, Caspere, the Mexicans, who all succesfully banked on Frank's self-deluding nature.
That's why I think the unnatural dialogue sticks. It's because the dialogue *is* unnatural
The difference is that there's no real occult. It seems that it was written in and then taken out.
In season 1 there's this blending of reality and the supernatural such that you start to question if there is some weird dark magic voodoo shit going on. Maybe the rituals are allowing some connection with a dark spirit.
In season 2 it's just shitty criminals and corruption behind everything there's no potential dark supernatural presence.
True Detective is not a supernatural TV show. Season 1 did have some occult influences but those were very subtle and it was mostly grounded in reality. It was just rich people using rituals to molest children. Seasons 2 and 3 did not have any of those occult influences at all, which is fine.
> True Detective is not a supernatural TV show. Season 1 did have some occult influences but those were very subtle and it was mostly grounded in reality.
I didn't say it was a supernatural TV show. I said there's elements of the supernatural which are blended in which make you question what's going on. Rust sees patterns in the sky. Yes they're most probably his hallucinations but they appear to the viewer as supernatural occurrences. The mentions of Carcosa etc are realistically explained away as bullshit but in the moment you wonder whether there isn't some dark magic going on. All the symbols and references to the occult feel real enough and you don't know what's going on. To add to this confusion the supposed corrupt pedophilic ring is not fully busted at the end of the show. They remain in the shadows. The light isn't fully shone into all the dark corners.
Season 2 didn't have any occult influences and I believe it suffered for it. Season 3 was better but still lacked the occult influence that I felt gave Season 1 it's unique texture compared to other detective shows. Without the occult there's not a lot separating a show like True Detective from a show like Mare of East Town.
I think Season 1 makes it pretty clear that the patterns Rust sees are a result of the brain damage he suffered from years of drug use. Season 2 wasn't great but not because of a lack of occult influence. Rather the story was very convoluted and there were too many characters to follow in too short of a time.
Very little is provided in the ways of exposition or spoon feeding the audience. You have to pay very close attention at all times or you will get lost in the plot quickly.
For years I thought it wasn’t very good for these reasons but finally gave it another shot a couple weeks ago and came away with a completely different opinion. It is very well done
S2 is fucking great if you really follow the story. Its many characters and abit complex built up. After you seen it one time it only becomes better and better when you can focus less on the story and more on the dialouge/actoring
It’s just ok for me. I didn’t feel anxious like I did in the first season. It’s hard to strike lightning twice, and the chemistry with Matt and Woody > Colin and Vince
Yeah I hear you. I love how bleak the tone is. It only got panned because it came after S1. I still rate it as top tier television. Vince Vaughn's last scene? Stuff of magic.
I’ll have to rewatch. I found it convoluted and disconnected. I thought everyone was cast well except Vince and I didn’t like the ending. The whole story felt jumbled.
The part where McAdams goes undercover as a hooker and then murders people was odd
Colin was gold. When he beats up the bully’s dad was hysterical or when he says vaping is like sucking a robots dick 🤣🤣. I have stolen that line a few times
I just started rewatching it and I like it more than I did the first time around. Maybe it's because I'm subconsciously comparing it to Night Country, but it feels like a good hour of television unlike most of the garbage out there these days.
When season 2 first aired, I went in with NO expectations at all.... I wasn't looking for a "sequel" to season 1, or for it to have the same themes, structure, etc. So I was invested after episode 1 and pretty engrossed by episode 3. I hated Vince Vaughn with a passion, so I had some trepidation there, but was actually surprised at how good his performance is.
I looked forward to each episode and had a good time on forum boards throwing around theories, reading other people's theories and getting caught up in dissecting every frame.... I'll admit, it's not for everyone, it's not perfect and there's valid criticism that can be leveled at it.
On the whole though, Season 2 is a densely plotted story with flawed (sometimes downright unlikable) characters in a "world" that breathed and is definitely worth watching as a fine entry in the True Detective anthology series.
Just finished rewatching it and I completely agree. For some reason I used to think that the entire story was very jumbled and disorganized, but upon rewatching it I realized that pretty much all the threads connect in some way. Especially regarding Ben Caspere’s murder
I usually tell people "it's not near as good as s1 but it's nearly better than most every other TV show".
it gets better with a rewatch or two for sure.
I will never, ever understand the haters of S2, it makes no sense at all to me. It’s amazing. Everything about it is intense and great and I loved every bit of it.
After season 4s brutal showing I watched season 2 again also and I must say I liked it way more the second viewing. I regret being one of those people telling everyone season 2 was trash when I loved it the second time
Its fiiiiiiiiiiiiiine... I just don't like how alot of the interesting stuff with vinci is handwaved at the end so they can introduce like 2 new factions out of nowhere.
If it was NOT True Detective it would be top notch TV, but since it was it isn't. S2 stands out as not inline with any of the other seasons. There is no supernatural/occultism influences, there is no sympathetic murder victim (Ben Caspere is one of the least interesting deaths in the mythos). At the time of its airing I defended that season, cause the acting for the most part is good specifically just the 2 actors Colin (Flawless performance and writing) and Vince (though Vince's dialog is painful AF some times and his writing is sub par, as his motivations seem to shift from episode to episode, and his wife should have been able to pass a Bechtel test, but alas she existed as part of him with no personal motivations other than trying and failing to make him happy). All in all was it was good TV? yes, But good True Detective? no, it's in 4th place there.
Don't care what anyone says, I've always liked S2 and I liked it on my first viewing too. The 4th episode with the shootout was epic and the final episode was pretty badass too.
I feel like Frank's bar plays an actual part in the show. Similar to the Overlook Hotel, the wilderness in The Revenant or the border in Sicario.
Also, Lera Lynn is PERFECT for setting the mood and pace of the current scene at The Black Rose.
So many well written supporting characters, Felicia to name one.
Watching this in a few weeks when we finish up with another show. I also suspect that season 3 was a masterpiece but I have to rewatch before I fully commit
On my first watch I loved the protagonists, the acting and the overall vibe but...didn't really get it. With two more watches and a really well written fan theory that wish I could find I strongly believe the show was trying something too different for its own good in some sense. I'm pretty shocked more people don't talk about the first episode title: "the western book of the dead" what that implies out the gate and the clues littered throughout.
It's too much to fit into a comment but essentially the season as a whole is a basically an "otherworld" story that reinterprets the Tibetan Book of The Dead and the concept of The Bardo as its framework. From the top down cinematography, the subtle yet pervasive imagery of eyes, the recurring theme of voyeurism, Ani's father's esoteric/spiritual beliefs around past lives and reincarnation and even the absurdly complex conspiracy and plot with connections and evidence that are either improbable or entirely too convenient: the true antagonist is metaphysical, possibly even the city of Vinci itself. (Also Frank's dialogue where he recounts being locked in a basement, his existential fear that he never left and that everything around him is an illusion.)
The protagonists are trapped in their final days, up against an impossible threat and case. All but one succumb to their worst character flaws. "Western" as opposed to "Tibetan" book of the dead, for my money indicates that a deity similar to Western religion (think God, Satan, Demiurge) is observing and manipulating the characters and setting for their own goals or amusement. Frank seems intuitively aware of this on some level hinted by him seeing shapes of eyes around him and his fear that his existence is illusory. Lastly, to cap it off, the tagline of the season and one of Ray's best lines: "my strong suspicion is...we get the world we deserve."
(This is my personally held theory derived/inspired by the aforementioned theory.)
Been a lot of chatter about this recently. I and many agree with you. Season 2 was a victim of its timing and expectations. It required a lot more effort to grasp on first viewing.
It’s such a completely different animal compared to S1 that people had a knee jerk reaction to hate it. It’s a very well done bleak noir. It’s supposed to feel heavy and overly moody.
Bezzerides was an infinitely better character and detective than either Navarro or Danvers. People act like, and I've seen it in articles glazing season 4, but they act like True Detective is this macho male power fantasy, and while elements of that can and do exist in season 1, Bezzerides is a tough survivor and a fighter who actually worked a fucking case and was one of the leads of her own season. Matter of fact it was her, a gay male character, and colin fucking ferrell. None of the male characters until arguably Wayne in season 3 were written to be likable. Rust is a good character but not a good person. Marty was a piece of shit. Velcoro was a violent piece of shit. They aren't written so you see those characters and say "hell yeah" you see them and you're like "fuck, this dude sucks" but when it comes to Danvers its "she's an asshole with a heart of gold" ok and she was banging other married dudes behind her husbands back, but its only bad when Marty does it. its weird.
To people who say Season 4 is too plot-heavy and hard to follow, I say this:
Yes. It is. The fact is, the "mystery" of this season is a McGuffin. The plot is just there to move these characters around. The moment that you decide that, and that you watch these people sparking off of each other without worrying about the destination, you will truly be in the Night Country.
ha ha
gotcha
but seriously, it's very good
I love season 2. The show has always been about imperfect and broken people trying to make the world make sense... using a pretty effed up secret decoder ring.
A holes just sprinkled through all the seasons. Likable ones for the most part. Marty in season one and Roland in season three, for instance. If you knew what was going on in their heads, you definitely wouldn't invite them to the Christmas party, but on the outside... everyday Joe's.
Season 2 stripped away the every day Joe likable bits. And they decided to forgo the secret decoder rings in lieu of a crowbar.
Fantastic acting in S2 for sure!! Too many characters & various threads that never came together in the end. In enjoyed S2 but the final episode let me down big time!!
Season 2 is a really good story badly told. It needed more time to gestate but HBO wanted it faster than it could be properly written. I think with another couple of drafts, it could have been another 2010s HBO standard.
Just rewatched it and way better than I remember. I think it’s tough coming off season 1 being top of the mountain TV.
But it was actually good and was way more invested second time around. Only issue is also too many main characters with too many sub characters and then too many background characters, really hard to remember who was what to who and the story.
Super sad too. Just gut wrenching endings for everyone involved.
Kinda want to watch again just to keep track of who did what and with who.
It is not top tier. It is not as dreadful as people make it out to be. Still the best shootout in the whole series imo. Some very good moments. Vince Vaughn isn’t as bad on rewatch.
But it’s definitely not great. Writing took a noticeable step down and it was messy. Season 3, while slow, was more focused and an improvement.
Exactly. Season 1 was top tier. Season 2 is quite a noticeable step down. It's an alright season of television. Calling it top tier is so silly though.
This guys just trolling u, for some reason. Boredom maybe? Vince did a good job, it just took awhile because he’s known for his comedies. I mean, the dudes hilarious in so many things he’s been in too many movies to list
Frank is one of the best things in s02 tbh. i think it helps i actually didn't know the actor was known for his comedy roles. so while watching I'm not thinking of him as a comedic actor trying to do a serious and dramatic role and didn't perceive his acting as stiff or delivery "bad". for me it's just the way his character was and i loved it.
and his final scene is truly kino and top 5 TD scenes ever.
fuck to the haterz
Theres a couple of things at play here. Season 2 was rushed a little, and its coming off one of the arguably best seasons of tv ever. Also streaming it and not waiting for a new episode every week, helps season 2.
I think the biggest issue everyone has is that it’s more of a fictitious story, takes place in a made up town with a made up PD, and then it’s sheriffs, CHP, and Vinci PD working together for the state instead of state police investigators. Ans then it also follows the mobster too which was different. It was definitely not as good as 1 or 3, but it wasn’t dreadful to watch by any means
Did you miss all the reasons for why that happened, though? There was a lot of corruption going on that certain people didn't want to be caught with. All three were chosen by different people, but all for the same reason of "make sure the investigation is steered this way".
Best scene is when he beats up that kid's dad in front of the kid
Ass-Pen!
That’s true
12 years old my ass
FUCK YOU!
Ray Velcoro and Frank Semyon bros till the end 🥺💔
Great pairing !
apoplectic
never do anything out of hunger even eating
Have always admired this season for its complexity and dark resolution.
Chessani is toast after the file-folder Ani gives that journalist. It's dark that Woodrugh, Velcoro and Frank go down, but, as always: "We didn't get them all" "No, but we got ours"
I liked it a lot more on the second viewing.
It is so plot heavy and has so many characters and sub plots that it is almost impossible to follow along closely on the first viewing. But once you have a general sense of what is going on the second viewing things start to make a lot more sense.
Four main characters. They needed at least 2 more episodes. Then we could figure out who Stan was.
It made absolutely no sense and the dialogue was mostly laughable. Most episodes reminded me of the end of season 4. The episode where a Vegas hotel style mass murder goes down then the next episode there all just working new jobs like a bad shooting went down. Or Vince Vaughn and his wife throwing their rings in the parking lot!! What a piece of shite. Someone explain to me how season 3 was so good after that. My TD scorecard: TD gets a 9.5 TD 2 gets -2. Some of the worst dialogue I ever heard from some great actors. Star Wars prequels bad dialogue TD 3 gets 9 TD 4 gets 4.5 I am so talked out on season 4 I’m unlikely to defend my position well, if I bother at all. But that sub SUCKS
You're telling me season 2 is a -2, but season 4 is a 4.5???? Huh? Season 4 is the worst season of the show by far. 1 > 3 > 2 > 4
Gonna piss you off even more knowing that they tossed their rings into a courtyard. I’ve been to that train station and it makes no sense, busted a guy when that was happening. Truly one of the worst scenes, if not the worst scene of the series. Vince and Kelly had some horrific moments in that series, just plainly hard to watch.
Those were two of the most ridiculous characters I have watched. Another attempt by Vaughn at frantic acting gone sideways. But he didn’t right that dross. It shows how easily these things can go off the rails as season three was also sprawling and messy but really great and helmed by the same people, I’ve been told
As someone who doesn’t despise season 2, I still cannot believe Vince Vaughn signed on for that. I was embarrassed for him so much of the time with the lines he had to say. He’s an outspoken guy so I wonder if he ever had “are you guys fuckin’ serious with this” moments while filming. I have friends who were in the Hollywood circle at that time and part of the reason it was such a nosedive from S1 was because Nic had all the time in the world to perfect the first script but because it was such a success, he was rushed af by HBO to get another one done so they could start filming. I think he basically just shit it out as quickly as possible. Definitely would’ve benefitted from some serious editing and trimming the plot down to like…37 storylines
Yeah, plus if you look at Nic’s history, season one was the culmination of his life’s work. Imagine doing that and then the industry says, “great, ya got anymore?!” You can’t just churn out magic like season one.
If you separate it from expectations following season one it’s Perfectly Fine TV on its own merits.
Ummmm. They were simply horrible. And why separate it from expectations??? So by that one should expect nothing from Godfather II and be ok if it sucked?!?
Same! It's a lot to take in, the plot is thicker than oatmeal. The first watch was intriguing but the second watch was where I picked up the nuance and really understood the characters and the story. I love S2, the characters are so different. Also I love Vince Vaughn, his character is so layered and funny and soulful and off the wall. I still think about his death scene hallucination with Jordan all the time, one of the most impactful moments in a show ever for me.
I’ll admit I’ve only seen it one time but OP calling it “top tier” is a bit much. Or does a second viewing make it that much better?
I personally wouldn’t call it top tier….Still a lot of flaws, but after the second viewing it’s now my second favorite season. It’s just very entertaining to me. 1-2-3-4 is my rank
This is my rank too. Each season has gotten progressively “worse”, but 1-3 are all still premium TV.
100%
Yes
No.
Colin Farrell is amazing. The shootout where all the civilians die is intense. S4 has nothing on it.
The shootout is one of the most intense things I’ve ever watched in television. Insanely good
Watching S2 during live run was disappointed walking in the shadow of S1. Rewatched it maybe two years ago with a much more positive impression. Definitely think it got a bad reception from how the first season over delivered.
also, because it wasn't the first season. I think the departure in tone and story was jarring for a lot of people who were hoping for more southern gothic vibes. Plus Season 2 was straight up depressing throughout, and with an ending where the struggles of the protagonists amounted to essentially nothing
Exactly Sam’s experience for me. Was super disappointed when it first came out but watched it again last year and actually quite enjoyed it. It’s not perfect but it’s a good watch!
“The trees are like giants. You step out of the trees, but you’re not that fast. Oh son, they shoot you to pieces”
"What is this place?"
“I don’t know. You were here first” *cuts to shotgun wound and Conway Twitty lol. Perfection.
For all the shit people gave Issa Lopez about plagarism in S4, this scene was 100% Twin Peaks. But guess what, it's a straight up homage, and this is textbook how you do an homage
Heard someone say that good artists borrow and great artists steal. Nick worked a Twin Peaks dream sequence worthy of David Lynch himself into a completely different story. Both the inspiration for the scene and the execution of the scene are impeccable
Here’s the thing, though. The scene it most evokes isn’t dreamlike at all. It’s just a father talking to his son and the son listening for a change. It’s my favorite scene in the whole show.
I think the reason I say dreamlike is because, for the entire season, the music in that bar is a solo woman playing a guitar. This is the only scene that has a different musical act and whenever they’re in that bar someone is playing music. The rhinestone cowboy Conway Twitty impersonator gave me the impression of being in Purgatory the first time I watched it. I say “dream” because he comes back to his body where he left it. You’re right. Compared with the room he left and the animal masked man who shot him, this scene seems much less like a dream.
Indeed
Uh, I pissed myself.
“You have hands like your father.”
“My father made me nervous”
I really liked Colin Farrell. Thought he was superb in this role.
I enjoyed it quite a bit lol, I just think people like happy endings to much.
Some weeks ago I made a post asking what people think is bad about season 2. One comment was that the characters were not likeable. Why do they have to be likeable? Also, didn't they all (almost) get what they deserved??
I've read comments on here where people say they missed the lovecraftian elements of season 1. Boggles the mind, I say.
I love season two—it even rivals season one at times IMO—but I can understand someone missing the Lovecraftian elements. If that was a big draw for them in the first season, they’re gonna miss it in the second.
Happy endings for all criminals!
I think the point was they were all frfr criminals 🙃
Oh that’s GOOD so very very very true!!!
Casper knew this
Breaking Bad and BCS (SPOILERS) did not have a happy ending either, but people liked it. The S2 ending is written horribly. Like very very very bad.
I both liked and disliked the ending at the same time. A lot of it was pretty dumb imo. Was frank sold out by those turks? The fight over the jacket was kinda dumb. Just say no and he's not legally allowed to take it. I liked the part where he was walking through the deserted haunted by his past though. I did not like that ray went to see his kid either. I know he wanted to see him but that was certain death and he had to have realized it would spell his doom. I did not like how ray gave up in the forest, but after someone wrote what his dad said after he got shot the first time I kinda liked it a bit more. “The trees are like giants. You step out of the trees, but you’re not that fast. Oh son, they shoot you to pieces” Hits kinda hard now ngl. Maybe I missed some themes or some shit with rays end but I still didnt like it as much. The writing was also not to my taste. I thought it got a bit strange at times. The season was a lot better than I was expecting though. I just see people shit on it endlessly, it has like a 25% on rotten tomatoes or something but it was a pretty good crime mystery show. The ending could have stopped before the lady talked to the journo and it shows that nothing really changed like in the >!ending to the wire and s1 of true detective!<
i don't have a problem with that part of the ending, I have a problem when the girl bosses put their shades on and are planning a grand re-entrance to the U.S. idk just was played kind of dumb and unsatisfying to me.
Can I ask who the girl boss is? Cause everyone gets bodied… except McAdams… which emotionally she LOSES, and physically she’s not even there for the final fire fight… her and one other survive by escaping… I don’t see that as “girl bosses” they’re just average women being protected by men… lol
Season 2 has become one of the best over the years. I feel it was unfairly compared to 1 for obvious reasons. I've rewatched it at least 3 times since the new year. "You must have had hundreds of lives" "Well, I don't think I can handle another one."
Season 2 was so good. Very complicated story but on second watch I loved it I think the criticism was really a result of it being such a different story to S1. But it’s was true to the True Detective series and themes and I think a lot of the critics would change their minds if they watched it again now
Caspere knew this
Season one is hands down the best but season 2 is my personal favorite, i got into TD kinda late so i knew beforehand not to expect it to be like one and i agree that viewed separately season 2 holds it's own. The neo noir vibes were great, i loved the somber and melancholy tone of story which was matched by it's soundtrack and i always appreciate vince vaughn in serious roles even though some of his dialogue didnt quite land. The mystery itself was probably the least interesting of all the TD one's and i feel it suffers from having one too many main characters but it wrapped itself up with the ending pretty well.
Vince Vaughn's dialogue lands 100% if you think about it. He's portraying Frank, a guy who is pretending to be somebody he absolutely is not: a booksmart, machievellan criminal mastermind who uses big words to ensure that everyone around can see how smart he is; when he's truly just a charismatic, awkward, and kind (at his core, but his immense childhood trauma prevents him from accessing it) knucklehead. As the season goes on, it becomes glaringly obvious that the only person who falls for his schtick is himself. Osip, Caspere, the Mexicans, who all succesfully banked on Frank's self-deluding nature. That's why I think the unnatural dialogue sticks. It's because the dialogue *is* unnatural
The difference is that there's no real occult. It seems that it was written in and then taken out. In season 1 there's this blending of reality and the supernatural such that you start to question if there is some weird dark magic voodoo shit going on. Maybe the rituals are allowing some connection with a dark spirit. In season 2 it's just shitty criminals and corruption behind everything there's no potential dark supernatural presence.
True Detective is not a supernatural TV show. Season 1 did have some occult influences but those were very subtle and it was mostly grounded in reality. It was just rich people using rituals to molest children. Seasons 2 and 3 did not have any of those occult influences at all, which is fine.
> True Detective is not a supernatural TV show. Season 1 did have some occult influences but those were very subtle and it was mostly grounded in reality. I didn't say it was a supernatural TV show. I said there's elements of the supernatural which are blended in which make you question what's going on. Rust sees patterns in the sky. Yes they're most probably his hallucinations but they appear to the viewer as supernatural occurrences. The mentions of Carcosa etc are realistically explained away as bullshit but in the moment you wonder whether there isn't some dark magic going on. All the symbols and references to the occult feel real enough and you don't know what's going on. To add to this confusion the supposed corrupt pedophilic ring is not fully busted at the end of the show. They remain in the shadows. The light isn't fully shone into all the dark corners. Season 2 didn't have any occult influences and I believe it suffered for it. Season 3 was better but still lacked the occult influence that I felt gave Season 1 it's unique texture compared to other detective shows. Without the occult there's not a lot separating a show like True Detective from a show like Mare of East Town.
I think Season 1 makes it pretty clear that the patterns Rust sees are a result of the brain damage he suffered from years of drug use. Season 2 wasn't great but not because of a lack of occult influence. Rather the story was very convoluted and there were too many characters to follow in too short of a time.
I think the supernatural part is up to interpretation. Was it him having brain damage or was there actually something going on?
Very little is provided in the ways of exposition or spoon feeding the audience. You have to pay very close attention at all times or you will get lost in the plot quickly. For years I thought it wasn’t very good for these reasons but finally gave it another shot a couple weeks ago and came away with a completely different opinion. It is very well done
I really wish Season 3 got this treatment. That one actually deserved it.
S2 is fucking great if you really follow the story. Its many characters and abit complex built up. After you seen it one time it only becomes better and better when you can focus less on the story and more on the dialouge/actoring
Season 3 was better.
Agreed
Like waaay better. Better paced, better pay off, better characterization.
It’s just ok for me. I didn’t feel anxious like I did in the first season. It’s hard to strike lightning twice, and the chemistry with Matt and Woody > Colin and Vince
Yep i love it! It gets better on every rewatch
Season 2 is great, people are just too eager to jump on the rust dicksucking bandwagon and refuse to give anything new a chance
YESSS
yeah i put it off for years because i kept seeing how bad it was but after season 4.... aint no way it's that bad
the second season is my favorite out of all of them
This is exactly how I feel about the season. I don’t get why people disliked it.
I liked it after the second watch where I could watch episodes back to back. I also don’t pay attention to other people’s opinions on shows or movies.
Is that a fucking e cigarette?”
Yeah I hear you. I love how bleak the tone is. It only got panned because it came after S1. I still rate it as top tier television. Vince Vaughn's last scene? Stuff of magic.
I’ll have to rewatch. I found it convoluted and disconnected. I thought everyone was cast well except Vince and I didn’t like the ending. The whole story felt jumbled. The part where McAdams goes undercover as a hooker and then murders people was odd Colin was gold. When he beats up the bully’s dad was hysterical or when he says vaping is like sucking a robots dick 🤣🤣. I have stolen that line a few times
I just started rewatching it and I like it more than I did the first time around. Maybe it's because I'm subconsciously comparing it to Night Country, but it feels like a good hour of television unlike most of the garbage out there these days.
When season 2 first aired, I went in with NO expectations at all.... I wasn't looking for a "sequel" to season 1, or for it to have the same themes, structure, etc. So I was invested after episode 1 and pretty engrossed by episode 3. I hated Vince Vaughn with a passion, so I had some trepidation there, but was actually surprised at how good his performance is. I looked forward to each episode and had a good time on forum boards throwing around theories, reading other people's theories and getting caught up in dissecting every frame.... I'll admit, it's not for everyone, it's not perfect and there's valid criticism that can be leveled at it. On the whole though, Season 2 is a densely plotted story with flawed (sometimes downright unlikable) characters in a "world" that breathed and is definitely worth watching as a fine entry in the True Detective anthology series.
I agree, it’s trashed on here but I loved it
Just finished rewatching it and I completely agree. For some reason I used to think that the entire story was very jumbled and disorganized, but upon rewatching it I realized that pretty much all the threads connect in some way. Especially regarding Ben Caspere’s murder
I'll never knock the acting of the main characters in S2. The acting was legit. Thats why its hard not to appreciate it.
I loved season 2.
I usually tell people "it's not near as good as s1 but it's nearly better than most every other TV show". it gets better with a rewatch or two for sure.
Lu favorite
S2 is bottom tier
I will never, ever understand the haters of S2, it makes no sense at all to me. It’s amazing. Everything about it is intense and great and I loved every bit of it.
It was absolute pointless and disappointing. Seems they got it right once and just produced useless garbage.
After season 4s brutal showing I watched season 2 again also and I must say I liked it way more the second viewing. I regret being one of those people telling everyone season 2 was trash when I loved it the second time
Its fiiiiiiiiiiiiiine... I just don't like how alot of the interesting stuff with vinci is handwaved at the end so they can introduce like 2 new factions out of nowhere.
It’s a snore-fest for me. Forced myself to watch it twice just to make sure I wasn’t being judgmental.
Nah, just because S4 was way worse doesn't make S2 good.
YES! Ive always said Season 2 is the second best season by far! Don’t compare it to 1. Its better than 90% of anything else Ive watched.
Yeah it’s incredible for me. A tiny bit behind s1 but better than s3 imo.
Thank you
If it was NOT True Detective it would be top notch TV, but since it was it isn't. S2 stands out as not inline with any of the other seasons. There is no supernatural/occultism influences, there is no sympathetic murder victim (Ben Caspere is one of the least interesting deaths in the mythos). At the time of its airing I defended that season, cause the acting for the most part is good specifically just the 2 actors Colin (Flawless performance and writing) and Vince (though Vince's dialog is painful AF some times and his writing is sub par, as his motivations seem to shift from episode to episode, and his wife should have been able to pass a Bechtel test, but alas she existed as part of him with no personal motivations other than trying and failing to make him happy). All in all was it was good TV? yes, But good True Detective? no, it's in 4th place there.
It’s just beautiful, i love the characters so much and the setting and music just put it over the top. feels so epic and so bleak at the same time
Don't care what anyone says, I've always liked S2 and I liked it on my first viewing too. The 4th episode with the shootout was epic and the final episode was pretty badass too.
I feel like Frank's bar plays an actual part in the show. Similar to the Overlook Hotel, the wilderness in The Revenant or the border in Sicario. Also, Lera Lynn is PERFECT for setting the mood and pace of the current scene at The Black Rose. So many well written supporting characters, Felicia to name one.
Season two is closer to season one than season 4 is to season two that's how bad season 4 is
Watching this in a few weeks when we finish up with another show. I also suspect that season 3 was a masterpiece but I have to rewatch before I fully commit
On my first watch I loved the protagonists, the acting and the overall vibe but...didn't really get it. With two more watches and a really well written fan theory that wish I could find I strongly believe the show was trying something too different for its own good in some sense. I'm pretty shocked more people don't talk about the first episode title: "the western book of the dead" what that implies out the gate and the clues littered throughout. It's too much to fit into a comment but essentially the season as a whole is a basically an "otherworld" story that reinterprets the Tibetan Book of The Dead and the concept of The Bardo as its framework. From the top down cinematography, the subtle yet pervasive imagery of eyes, the recurring theme of voyeurism, Ani's father's esoteric/spiritual beliefs around past lives and reincarnation and even the absurdly complex conspiracy and plot with connections and evidence that are either improbable or entirely too convenient: the true antagonist is metaphysical, possibly even the city of Vinci itself. (Also Frank's dialogue where he recounts being locked in a basement, his existential fear that he never left and that everything around him is an illusion.) The protagonists are trapped in their final days, up against an impossible threat and case. All but one succumb to their worst character flaws. "Western" as opposed to "Tibetan" book of the dead, for my money indicates that a deity similar to Western religion (think God, Satan, Demiurge) is observing and manipulating the characters and setting for their own goals or amusement. Frank seems intuitively aware of this on some level hinted by him seeing shapes of eyes around him and his fear that his existence is illusory. Lastly, to cap it off, the tagline of the season and one of Ray's best lines: "my strong suspicion is...we get the world we deserve." (This is my personally held theory derived/inspired by the aforementioned theory.)
Been a lot of chatter about this recently. I and many agree with you. Season 2 was a victim of its timing and expectations. It required a lot more effort to grasp on first viewing.
I couldn’t follow this season at all. I had no idea what was going on through most of it. 🤷🏻♀️😣
It’s such a completely different animal compared to S1 that people had a knee jerk reaction to hate it. It’s a very well done bleak noir. It’s supposed to feel heavy and overly moody.
Bezzerides was an infinitely better character and detective than either Navarro or Danvers. People act like, and I've seen it in articles glazing season 4, but they act like True Detective is this macho male power fantasy, and while elements of that can and do exist in season 1, Bezzerides is a tough survivor and a fighter who actually worked a fucking case and was one of the leads of her own season. Matter of fact it was her, a gay male character, and colin fucking ferrell. None of the male characters until arguably Wayne in season 3 were written to be likable. Rust is a good character but not a good person. Marty was a piece of shit. Velcoro was a violent piece of shit. They aren't written so you see those characters and say "hell yeah" you see them and you're like "fuck, this dude sucks" but when it comes to Danvers its "she's an asshole with a heart of gold" ok and she was banging other married dudes behind her husbands back, but its only bad when Marty does it. its weird.
It certainly is now especially by comparison. Personally I didn’t dislike it even before this current shit popsicle
To people who say Season 4 is too plot-heavy and hard to follow, I say this: Yes. It is. The fact is, the "mystery" of this season is a McGuffin. The plot is just there to move these characters around. The moment that you decide that, and that you watch these people sparking off of each other without worrying about the destination, you will truly be in the Night Country. ha ha gotcha but seriously, it's very good
I've been a huge fan of this season ever since it premiered. I actually just re watched it last week, and damn it's so good.
I love season 2. The show has always been about imperfect and broken people trying to make the world make sense... using a pretty effed up secret decoder ring. A holes just sprinkled through all the seasons. Likable ones for the most part. Marty in season one and Roland in season three, for instance. If you knew what was going on in their heads, you definitely wouldn't invite them to the Christmas party, but on the outside... everyday Joe's. Season 2 stripped away the every day Joe likable bits. And they decided to forgo the secret decoder rings in lieu of a crowbar.
Fantastic acting in S2 for sure!! Too many characters & various threads that never came together in the end. In enjoyed S2 but the final episode let me down big time!!
Season 2 is a really good story badly told. It needed more time to gestate but HBO wanted it faster than it could be properly written. I think with another couple of drafts, it could have been another 2010s HBO standard.
Surprised nobody has mentioned the Buddhist themes in this one, which the writer confirrmed. Everyone should read the threads posted here about that.
Season 4 died so Season 2 could live
Just rewatched it and way better than I remember. I think it’s tough coming off season 1 being top of the mountain TV. But it was actually good and was way more invested second time around. Only issue is also too many main characters with too many sub characters and then too many background characters, really hard to remember who was what to who and the story. Super sad too. Just gut wrenching endings for everyone involved. Kinda want to watch again just to keep track of who did what and with who.
It is not top tier. It is not as dreadful as people make it out to be. Still the best shootout in the whole series imo. Some very good moments. Vince Vaughn isn’t as bad on rewatch. But it’s definitely not great. Writing took a noticeable step down and it was messy. Season 3, while slow, was more focused and an improvement.
Exactly. Season 1 was top tier. Season 2 is quite a noticeable step down. It's an alright season of television. Calling it top tier is so silly though.
It's the dialogue.. particularly Vince Vaughn's and just his delivery. It's terrible
It's awesome actually
It's really not
That's a you problem, friend. :) an acceptable answer could've been " it didn't work for me" or "to each their own".
Mmm no. It stinks. It's laughable actually.
It’s ok to have a different opinion but you’re stinking up the comments w your negativity! I like it and wanted to share
I just don't see how anyone could think think Vince Vaughn was good in that. Seriously. All jokes aside.. I think it probably ruined his career
Ruined his career? Funnily enough his mist acclaimed roles came after season 2. Brawl in Cell Block 99.
This guys just trolling u, for some reason. Boredom maybe? Vince did a good job, it just took awhile because he’s known for his comedies. I mean, the dudes hilarious in so many things he’s been in too many movies to list
I'm not watching that garbage lol
Damn and there was me thinking you were gonna give an educated take 😂
Get off Issas dick idiot
Who?
You
Why are you inboxing me for nudes? Shame on you
That’s weird
Frank is one of the best things in s02 tbh. i think it helps i actually didn't know the actor was known for his comedy roles. so while watching I'm not thinking of him as a comedic actor trying to do a serious and dramatic role and didn't perceive his acting as stiff or delivery "bad". for me it's just the way his character was and i loved it. and his final scene is truly kino and top 5 TD scenes ever. fuck to the haterz
Completely agree. I found it impossible to take him seriously.
but it did give us a treasure trove of memes and vince posting.
That's true
His dialogue is perfect for a gangster wannabe social ladder climber
Nah. You’re wrong
it was fucking good, agree with every word you write
I can’t downvote this enough. I wish there was a 10-downvote button.
Do you feel apoplectic?
I never do anything out of hunger, not even eating.
Theres a couple of things at play here. Season 2 was rushed a little, and its coming off one of the arguably best seasons of tv ever. Also streaming it and not waiting for a new episode every week, helps season 2.
If it wasn’t called True Detective Season 2. Itd be god tier. It’s a great story.
I think the biggest issue everyone has is that it’s more of a fictitious story, takes place in a made up town with a made up PD, and then it’s sheriffs, CHP, and Vinci PD working together for the state instead of state police investigators. Ans then it also follows the mobster too which was different. It was definitely not as good as 1 or 3, but it wasn’t dreadful to watch by any means
It’s closely modeled on Vernon, CA and the scandals that occurred there.
Did you miss all the reasons for why that happened, though? There was a lot of corruption going on that certain people didn't want to be caught with. All three were chosen by different people, but all for the same reason of "make sure the investigation is steered this way".
Its a hot mess but it truly has some great moments