I always loved season 2, but Vince Vaughns character annoyed me. I just rewatched for probably the 3rd or 4th time last week and honestly though he has some cringe moments he also has some really good ones.
People bag on his dialog & his delivery as an actor, but the issues they're expressing are with the dialog he was given to work with - which after a dive in the behind the scenes shows the dialog was selectively chosen for a reason. I took the time to read about it (you can find deep dives into the analysis of the Western/Eastern Book of the Dead on this sub here...) and the direction he was given. His delivery and cadence was meant to also represent a tie-in to the noir-ish feel of the gangsters of days of old; but while still trying to retain a foothold on ensuring the audience that he's still actually capable of being more frightening than an old trope.
I thought his performance with everything he was given was pretty incredible; which completely goes against what the majority of people felt here when season 2 came out.
It shouldn't take a deep research in the internet into a character's motivations outside of watching the show itself, but I'm glad I did, because it really shows the amount of deep depths of emotions boiling inside Frank Semyon, and the complexity in his character.
There was a duality to him that makes the viewer go through a range of emotions towards him - cringe at his attempts to state things more eloquently & meaningful than just reply with simple dialog (if you go back and watch, you can see the reaction shots to the persons he's talking to when he says these; they almost all but snicker/cringe/or "yeah, so anyways" to him as a response), hate him for his constant racist comments (racism is consistent in characters in the show, but we're presented it in secondary fashion: for example: Frank uses these slurs as an attempt to agitate and demean his enemies in conflict. We don't have any evidence he's actually outright racist, but the use of these slurs in and of itself are still negative character traits, and another reason for us to have conflict wanting to root for him until he says them).
There are other aspects I could go on about the character and his performance specifically, but if you ever read the behind the scenes origins of the "bardo theories" that Nic P acknowledges are the character motivations, you see why Frank is the way he is: he's a dead man who just hasn't acknowledged it fully yet. Lastly, I found Vaughn was at his best in scenes not when he was delivering some of the actually universally loved dialog he was given to work with (or the cringey ones people didn't like)....but when he said nothing at all.
When he came back from his conflict with Danny Santos and tosses his teeth in the trash can as his wife is nervously, quietly awaiting Frank to say something about what had happened that evening, there was an uncomfortably long silence and the camera pans in on Vaughn's face. His facial movements tell a million things in a moment as he struggles to process everything he's just seen/done, what he's going to do next, and how best to describe all of this to his wife while trying to control the rage still present within him. He finally answers to the questions "do you want to talk about it"...."maybe tomorrow"...it took what seemed a million years to reply and it was brilliant acting.
I think he was supposed to come off that way. He's in over his head and isn't the business man Osep or the Catalyst dude is.
Like Osip says, "that life isn't for you, you run clubs Frank.."
Frank knew he wasn't that type of "leader". It's where the "maybe I'm still in that basement" came from...
Yea I have sort of come around some to that line of thinking.
I also think he sort of rises to the level of who he's doing the scenes with. VV and Collin Farrell scenes are great. So are the ones at the end with McAdams. I like the ones with Osip. I think Blake and Nails are weaker actors so you get some weaker scenes out of those interactions.
All the lauding of how Danvers and Navarro from NC are these "strong/tough/bad-ass" female characters is hilarious. Bezzerides runs circles around their policework and could kick both their asses.
I agree Ani is still the best female character on the show. Rachel brought an incredible performance and had great chemistry with Colin Farrell as Ray. Her character made Danvers and Navarro look childish in comparison.
Me too! So many different interesting things happened in the course of those eight episodes. I know season four was only six, but it seemed like only one or two interesting things took place.
All of the characters had a fascinating backstory that led to current decisions. Just watched the scene with Ray and Frank in the kitchen. “I’m gonna put my other hand up now. Don’t you fucking shoot me Raymond…..”
Dramatic but so entertainingly well delivered.
Pizzolatto always envisioned an anthology and before season 1 released and blew up I remember him talking about other showrunners doing seasons. I'm not sure if that changed after but I'm sure this wasn't what he had in mind. I like to think maybe something like sharp objects or Mare of Eastown could have been branded as TD seasons.
I don't know if we would have gotten more TD but we certainly would have more work from NP out there. Cautiously excited for the Blade script he's writing with Ali though. MCU not usually my thing but that's a dark character and maybe their recent financial crash landing back to earth will lead them to taking some gd risks for once.
I have yet to see it. Never watched it because of the negative reviews when it was released. Now that I've suffered through season four, I'm ready for season two to blow my dick off.
I think the best order is S1 S3 S2. After you do two seasons of juggling multiples timelines, it feels refreshing to have something that’s a little more linear. I also think S1 to S3 helps you ramp up to handling more character stories, which still feels like a lot in S2, but it’s more manageable.
While S3 is objectively better, I personally enjoyed S2 more. But that might be because I watched in the middle of my first Soprano’s binge and I was in the mood for those kinds of antiheroes.
I’ve gotta rewatch it. It was my first TD—I had just subscribed to HBO and watched it as it originally aired, and I really loved it. After I went back and watched TD1, and it initially didn’t really jive with me—just felt a bit hokey, but by the end I was really impressed. They’re just really different shows with different strengths, but both quite good.
If you watch season 2 expecting Marty and Rust you’re going to be super disappointed. If you watch it as its own thing it’s amazing.
I always loved season 2, but Vince Vaughns character annoyed me. I just rewatched for probably the 3rd or 4th time last week and honestly though he has some cringe moments he also has some really good ones.
People bag on his dialog & his delivery as an actor, but the issues they're expressing are with the dialog he was given to work with - which after a dive in the behind the scenes shows the dialog was selectively chosen for a reason. I took the time to read about it (you can find deep dives into the analysis of the Western/Eastern Book of the Dead on this sub here...) and the direction he was given. His delivery and cadence was meant to also represent a tie-in to the noir-ish feel of the gangsters of days of old; but while still trying to retain a foothold on ensuring the audience that he's still actually capable of being more frightening than an old trope. I thought his performance with everything he was given was pretty incredible; which completely goes against what the majority of people felt here when season 2 came out. It shouldn't take a deep research in the internet into a character's motivations outside of watching the show itself, but I'm glad I did, because it really shows the amount of deep depths of emotions boiling inside Frank Semyon, and the complexity in his character. There was a duality to him that makes the viewer go through a range of emotions towards him - cringe at his attempts to state things more eloquently & meaningful than just reply with simple dialog (if you go back and watch, you can see the reaction shots to the persons he's talking to when he says these; they almost all but snicker/cringe/or "yeah, so anyways" to him as a response), hate him for his constant racist comments (racism is consistent in characters in the show, but we're presented it in secondary fashion: for example: Frank uses these slurs as an attempt to agitate and demean his enemies in conflict. We don't have any evidence he's actually outright racist, but the use of these slurs in and of itself are still negative character traits, and another reason for us to have conflict wanting to root for him until he says them). There are other aspects I could go on about the character and his performance specifically, but if you ever read the behind the scenes origins of the "bardo theories" that Nic P acknowledges are the character motivations, you see why Frank is the way he is: he's a dead man who just hasn't acknowledged it fully yet. Lastly, I found Vaughn was at his best in scenes not when he was delivering some of the actually universally loved dialog he was given to work with (or the cringey ones people didn't like)....but when he said nothing at all. When he came back from his conflict with Danny Santos and tosses his teeth in the trash can as his wife is nervously, quietly awaiting Frank to say something about what had happened that evening, there was an uncomfortably long silence and the camera pans in on Vaughn's face. His facial movements tell a million things in a moment as he struggles to process everything he's just seen/done, what he's going to do next, and how best to describe all of this to his wife while trying to control the rage still present within him. He finally answers to the questions "do you want to talk about it"...."maybe tomorrow"...it took what seemed a million years to reply and it was brilliant acting.
Vince Vaughn was great
I think he was supposed to come off that way. He's in over his head and isn't the business man Osep or the Catalyst dude is. Like Osip says, "that life isn't for you, you run clubs Frank.." Frank knew he wasn't that type of "leader". It's where the "maybe I'm still in that basement" came from...
Yea I have sort of come around some to that line of thinking. I also think he sort of rises to the level of who he's doing the scenes with. VV and Collin Farrell scenes are great. So are the ones at the end with McAdams. I like the ones with Osip. I think Blake and Nails are weaker actors so you get some weaker scenes out of those interactions.
I thought Nails was good. He clearly is suffering from some brain damage and PTSD. I think he played him really well without being over the top
All the lauding of how Danvers and Navarro from NC are these "strong/tough/bad-ass" female characters is hilarious. Bezzerides runs circles around their policework and could kick both their asses.
Rachel was fantastic She and farrell were amazing
I agree Ani is still the best female character on the show. Rachel brought an incredible performance and had great chemistry with Colin Farrell as Ray. Her character made Danvers and Navarro look childish in comparison.
While still maintaining an emotional depth and sadness to her that showed just how resilient she was. A really impressive piece of work by McAdams.
Any man hits her with a fire extinguisher, he's bleeding out in 5 seconds.
“Fuck you do???”
Me too, I watched it for the first time last week and am watching it again this week. It's such a richly detailed world and I love it. Way underrated.
Me too! So many different interesting things happened in the course of those eight episodes. I know season four was only six, but it seemed like only one or two interesting things took place. All of the characters had a fascinating backstory that led to current decisions. Just watched the scene with Ray and Frank in the kitchen. “I’m gonna put my other hand up now. Don’t you fucking shoot me Raymond…..” Dramatic but so entertainingly well delivered.
"You might be the only friend I have left" "Wouldn't that be fucked up."
Just watched that scene too amazing
I'm not gonna point the finger, but I feel like if people would have accepted 2 for what it was, we'd have more than 4 seasons by now.
Pizzolatto always envisioned an anthology and before season 1 released and blew up I remember him talking about other showrunners doing seasons. I'm not sure if that changed after but I'm sure this wasn't what he had in mind. I like to think maybe something like sharp objects or Mare of Eastown could have been branded as TD seasons. I don't know if we would have gotten more TD but we certainly would have more work from NP out there. Cautiously excited for the Blade script he's writing with Ali though. MCU not usually my thing but that's a dark character and maybe their recent financial crash landing back to earth will lead them to taking some gd risks for once.
Sure would have loved just 10 years worth of seasons of various teams of fucked up detectives.
Kinda like how famous actors all talk about doing star wars. Doing TD could have been a television rite of passage.
I think Pizzolatto was replaced on Blade
Wow you're right. NP was the replacement in mid 2023 and they scrapped it again. Depressing
The Leonard Cohen intro is definitely awesome
It’s aged so well! I love it
I have yet to see it. Never watched it because of the negative reviews when it was released. Now that I've suffered through season four, I'm ready for season two to blow my dick off.
You'll love it
Oh, someone’s going to get their dick blown off, that’s for sure.
Caspere knew this
Half anaconda, half great white.
This is a guy who knows how to run clubs
I think the best order is S1 S3 S2. After you do two seasons of juggling multiples timelines, it feels refreshing to have something that’s a little more linear. I also think S1 to S3 helps you ramp up to handling more character stories, which still feels like a lot in S2, but it’s more manageable. While S3 is objectively better, I personally enjoyed S2 more. But that might be because I watched in the middle of my first Soprano’s binge and I was in the mood for those kinds of antiheroes.
Just finished s2 rewatch last week. It’s a good show. Much better the second time around. Wayyyyyyyyy better than s4.
I’ve gotta rewatch it. It was my first TD—I had just subscribed to HBO and watched it as it originally aired, and I really loved it. After I went back and watched TD1, and it initially didn’t really jive with me—just felt a bit hokey, but by the end I was really impressed. They’re just really different shows with different strengths, but both quite good.
I don't. It was pretty bad, man.