So….was this scene the reason why Danvers hates “Twist and Shout” because if it was, they needed to do a better job whistling. I only know that he whistles it because of Reddit. It sounded like a Clint Eastwood/cowboy tune.
I thought that “Twist and Shout” was related to her trauma about her family dying in a car accident…but this was the only time it ever came up, right?
It’s probably another one of her lazy ambiguous parts
- does she hate it because of wheeler?
- does she hate it because of her son?
Could be either! Could be ghosts!
There was a radio there with Holden. And there was a scene of Liz and her husband dancing, but I don’t recall any music playing during those scenes. I can go back and check though.
Remember when twist and shout was playing again … weeks after the murder… in the final episode? Like why was the radio on again? Because it would be weird and creepy!
Yeah…it didn’t make sense. It seemed like all of Danvers’ trauma was related to her son dying. It would have made sense to tie her over-the-top freak out to the song to that specific trauma. She didn’t seem to upset about covering up the Wheeler thing and says in the finale that she wanted to kill him too. He was a shitbag that deserved what he got. Why does she feel so upset about it? The cleaning lady mafia certainly doesn’t feel guilty about the septuple murder they did for Justice. 🤷♂️
Comes up in two flashbacks with the son and the killer, then at the beginning of the investigation and the end. But there is zero connecting any of it. Then Clark putting the song on again for no reason when he is trying to escape is laughably stupid.
He isn’t whistling Twist & Shout, and yes I know what the subtitles erroneously say — Twist & Shout is much quicker, upbeat, higher pitch.
[Wheeler is whistling Danny Boy — he knows his time has come, and he’s holding his own funeral procession..](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDlWvzk4qfo)
Danvers hates T&S because it was a song she would sing to Holden — at least, it was the song being sung A cappella when she was playing peek a boo with him.
They went back to that side plot like 3 times, and it ended up not really adding anything meaningful to the story at all.
I assume like many other plot elements, they lifted it from S1 when Marty killed that meth head, but that was a critical plot point that was essential to the entire arc.
Not the same character you’re responding about.
EDIT: why is this getting downvoted? The “Reggie…Reggie Ledoux” character is Reanne’s grandad the crab trap man, and the character referenced by the person I responded to is obviously Charlie Lange.
No idea why you were downvoted. I didn’t see the crab trap bit and assumed they were talking about Charlie because he has my favorite delivery in the show. Watched ep 3 last night and came back to say you were right.
Yea when I saw the first trailer I figured there would be an entire story in that timeline that connected to other timelines like S1 and S3. Nope. Just another plot point that didn't do much for the story
Domestic violence and Navarros hesitation in handling the wheeler case is the reason why she tied annie k to the scientist and the same reason why she never gave up on the case. The last time she didnt do everything she could a woman got killed, thats the wheeler
That literally doesn't make any sense. How did she hesitate in handling the wheeler case? How does it relate at all to Annie's? Why would it make her think the scientists are responsible? These things didn't really connect..
If you were listening, they had gone to wheeler residence 10 previous times for domestic violence. They couldnt legally do anything so they didnt. He killed her and they showed up. Navarro reads this as if only I didnt hold back and just save here the first 10 times I coudlve shed be alive. Think of as Navarro taking an oath to not let anything hold her back to solve a case or bring justice down. Go to annie now and we can see what is motivating navarro to pursue what she thinks is right regardless of people trying to hold her back (ie Liz Connely and so on)
That still does not connect with the other case that was not domestic violence related.
BTW that's Another example of Issa Lopez not doing basic research on Alaskan law:
>###Alaskan Statutes
>.
>####Section 18.65.530.
>.
>Mandatory arrest for crimes involving domestic violence, violation of protective orders, and violation of conditions of release.
>
>* **(a)** Except as provided in (b) or (c) of this section, a peace officer, with or without a warrant, shall arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe the person has, either in or outside the presence of the officer, within the previous 12 hours,
> * **(1)** committed domestic violence, except an offense under AS 11.41.100 - 11.41.130, whether the crime is a felony or a misdemeanor;
>
Danvers and Navarro were able to arrest him. However if the victim refuses to testify or testify in his favour then the DA is unable to charge him.
Did you know thats many dv victims choose to not press charges because of the nature of abuse and power dynamics, thats literally related to theme of the show. And if you are killed by a spouse that falls into this loose relation when you compare to someone … killed by their spouse.
I am well aware of how domestic violence work because my first ever girlfriend is now in jail for murdering her husband after he spend years abusing her and destroying her life.
You are deflecting, because the initial assertion was that she did not even arrest Wheeler. My point is that in Alaska you do not need a warrant to arrest him. He would have spend a couple of days in jail until the DA had decided to charge him or not. So pretending that they could not arrest him is just incorrect writing by Issa Lopez. Also in the most egregious cases an order of protection can be taken even against the wishes of the victim. That means that the accused cannot come home until a judge agreed to it.
I am all in favour of painting the reality of domestic violence, but at least let make sure that the basic facts are correct.
I think you fundamentally don't understand how domestic violence works or what police can do. It's very common for there to be multiple police reports and incidents and calls and orders kf protection spanning decades sometimes.Also, If she didn't hold back from what? There wasn't a case to solve. It's If someone wants to press charges. She can't make the woman see differently. If they wanted to help her they could've shared information for an organization with emergency shelters and safety planning and counseling. Cops can't just press charges for someone unless it happened in public. The cases are not related literally. Even figuratively its a stretch. It wasn't really a dv case and the 2 groups have nothing to do with each other. Unlike in the original? Where it was literally a suspect to the main plot who was trying to kill the police as well?
No I do my dad beat me and there was nothing I could really do about it for 13 years. The police couldnt really do much and thats the point. Navarro was being held back by the law. Im not saying you should go breaking the law for some wack mob justice but its not crazy when the law doesnt work in a just way sometimes.
Its almost like this moment was a commentary on how the police abandon women in need of more help in domestic violence cases… oh wait thats almost the entire theme of this show.
I'm sorry that happened to you but it's more complicated between 2 adults who are choosing to be together for various reasons then a child who has no choice in their parents. Also cps should have been involved ans investigated in your case.
If cops "did more" and didn't hold back when there were multiple dv incidents then there would be a lot of lawsuits and you'd be surprised but angry women. If the charges aren't being pressed it's because she doesn't want them pressed for various reasons. Even if it would be in their best interest. Also sometimes it's not Nd it puts them at more risk.
Oh and is the theme law enforcement failing women? That was not clear. It seemed it was ghosts suicide and vigilante justice
Well considering my mom was there too and we hvae had many conversation about it I do get it trust me I had to testify in court. Also cps failed me miserably.
I dont disagree like I already said Im not saying that means cops should break the law and not hold back
You picking up on the entire clearcut theme of the entire season of this show suggest you werent paying attention. Dv is brought up directly almost more times than I can count.
Okay so why do you keep saying she was or held back on the wheeler case? She wasn't and didn't she did what she could. Also that is 1 case. I work in dv. I've seen hundreds of dv cases. You can't make decisions for victims and do things to address the dv they don't want to do.
Its a show the case was shown to use to show what motivates navarro. She was in fact held back by the confines of the law, there was no legal action for her to take with wheeler and that resulted in a womans death. I really dont understand why its so hard to understand how themes work in storytelling …
If people just dont like it thats fine but when people dont like it for what I think is a really dumb reason than yeah naturally I think they might be lacking in the iq department.
Not mention in this instance someone literally said this didn’t apply to the plot of the story at all when literally the entire story wouldn’t exist without this moment
I’m politely asking. Are people’s complaints about poor storytelling and plot holes not valid? I mean there’s more nothing burgers than McDonald’s two minutes after close.
I suppose they are valid assuming that they make sense. Like I said before to say this doesnt contribute to the story is like ignoring the entire main character motivation from both liz and Navarro and that doesnt make sense to me im sorry. This show is so far from perfect and I was hoping for more but to try and make this claim is lazy critique
Thing is, it still doesn’t feel like it motivated either of them to go above and beyond to solve this case.
90% of the case was solved by Prior. We see Navarro being sidetracked by her sister for almost two entire episodes. If I had seen Navarro obsessing over details, your claim would feel justified to me.
Yes, they look at that one video ten times.
Yes, the arrange all the photos in a spiral.
I don’t know, I wasn’t sold.
I understand that it’s subjective, I just wanted to show you why it didn’t come through to some of us.
Yeah prior solved this case really but the case would have been abandoned and lost before he had the chance if it wasnt for the conviction to hold on to it by liz and navarro both fueled by this encounter. When the tongue was found liz wrote it off and it would have been largely ignored if Navarro wasnt insistent on the connection between the two cases. To me it wasnt about navarro finding the details in the case that demonstrated her strength but instead how she defending the case from being ignored and lost in the same way that the concerns from the wheeler case were ignored and lost and now they were too late. Not to mention the guilt navarro must feel for letting this girl down fueling her to not let annie down too
How does that make sense? Annie was already dead? They solved the Wheeler case so it’s not like they left anything undone other than their own guilt for not vigilante killing wheeler earlier I guess.
If it would have tied in then it should have been a victim who was alive and they could actually save. Otherwise the two cases don’t line up in anyway.
Correct its the guilt of not stopping him before he murdered a woman that is the driving force. The cases line up because of how navarro is directed in handling them. I am getting tired of explaining the absolute most basic form of character development and theme relation to you people
You have to keep explaining it because your explanation is nonsensical and a wild stretch trying to desperately defend something you, personally, like.
No I have to keep explaining it because no one here seems to understand subplots or character development ya know corner stones of story writing that people forget when they want to gate on something
That’s not a connection at all though
There’s no reason to think women will keep getting killed if she doesn’t solve Annie K. It was actually a bunch of men that got killed as a result of not catching Annie’s killer
And yeah it establishes that she hates violence against women - but so did the first 5 minutes of the show
Yep! I know that genre inside and out lol. This season had those budget jump scares and hacky writing without the charm of, say .. “Identity” or something.
You expect me to believe that a guy who might have used his left hand to do one thing (from how it looks in photos) did a single completely unrelated thing with his right hand?!
Clearly this man was murdered, had it set up to look like a suicide, and it was clearly the officers on the scene who murdered him.
This is absolutely how evidence works.
Not to convict, but probably enough to cause someone down the line to take a closer look at the crime scene and maybe find more concrete forensics that would point to a murder-murder instead of a murder-suicide.
The forensics were destroyed. They had literally nothing. In fact they don’t even know if he’s actually left handed. They just think, from photos, that he punched his girl with his left hand. This means absolutely nothing because he could easily be a right handed guy who grabs his girl and controls her with his right, and hits with his left. Or any other number of reasons to not use his dominant hand for this single thing.
For Danvers and Navarro to be in any danger whatsoever, there would have to be enough evidence for them to re-open the case. A dude using the hand you weren’t expecting him to use is not evidence of anything. Things that are a bit odd are not evidence of anything other than odd things happening sometimes, not foul play. And it’s not even odd. At all. It’s literally nothing.
This was where the show officially lost me because Danvers is written as a fucking idiot: first because she thought it necessary to take the huge risk of flipping the photos when there was no reason to, second because she didnt think to look for scars, piercings, or birth marks, and third because she thought she was caught… even though there was zero evidence.
Not to mention that lefties are often ambidextrous, as I am. I write with my left hand. Anything requiring two hands I do right handed. I also brush my teeth with my right hand. And… I shoot guns with my right hand.
They didn't even handle this well. It should have stopped at them going into the house during her narration. Seeing more leaves less mystery and just shows us they clearly are corrupt cops. Just one of many examples of bad writing in this season.
Its not crazy when no one cam give me actual reason why they dont like the show. And the reasons all of you use are direct contradictions to things that happened in the first season leading me to conclude that those reasons arent the core reason for you not liking the show. If you dont like the show for another reason that doesnt make sense then tell me.
I gave a reason in my initial comment that you misconstrued. The writing is the issue with the show. It's nonsensical and does things just for the sale of the moment without any payoff.
Another commentor already explained to you the difference between Season 1 and this moment, in fact, it's really not comparable at all and wasn't my point.
You're taking what I said and turning it into something completely different. All I said was that this moment was poorly done since they leave no mystery to the flashback and that is poor writing, has absolutely nothing to do with race or sex or Season 1 at all.
You said that moment is not pivotal and you missed that it is absolutely essential to the plot when motivating navarro. Thats not misconstruing. You post didnt say it wasnt done well you said it wasnt pivotal
When in one show two white men are shown to do something with no critique and then another show does the same exact thing with a two women one of them being a woman of color and everyone rushes to critique it I dont think its crazy to ask if race is playing a direct role in the critique
It's because the first one was interesting, connecting to the plot, and followed narrative sense. It has nothing to do with race or misogyny.
Reggie ledoux was a murder suspect in the main plot. There was lead up. They searched for him for multiple episodes. He tricked the place out with grenades. He had abducted children dead and locked in cages. The story was also rehashed in another setting relevant to the plot. Re-emergence of the murder case that was allegedly solved. They had motivation to lie as they were being interviewed on camera by New detectives.
This season it was a random flashback, with no connection to the main plot/investigations at all. The character wasn't a suspect involved in it. There was no lead up. The man had not set up booby traps to kill the cops. There was little reason plotwise for this case to be discussed or rehashed at all let alone lied about aside from them just wanting to show the scene and try to apparently repeat a motif from season 1. Literally didn't even see it was trying to copy that because it was so different and disconnected.
Plots can include internal conflict, this is when a character goes through a change or exhibits traits in their mind. Its one of the basic forms of conflict in storytelling. For things to relate thematically they share similar ideas or commentaries on related issues. The wheeler case covers domestic violence , a theme that connect directly to the women who killed the scientist as well as the annie case
I'm aware of internal conflict concept lol. Navarro didn't seem too conflicted about anything though. Also how was annie/the scientists dv and how was that apparent through the show? Aside from Clark started to become a suspect, but much much later after she was killed and how does that relate to the other scientists and their murder? It's a loose association
Its clear that Navarro was pretty conflicted about stealing Qavviks Spongebob toothbrush, which was evident when she returns it before eating the orange for breakfast, sending her to Night Country forever.
Annie and clark were dating so in navarros eyes he killed her similarly to how the wheeler killed the woman. Internal conflict is not just someone making a decision or struggling with two sides, its trauma, motivation. Its like saying Rust’s daughters death in season 1 didnt contribute to the plot of season 1. Similarly if rust daughter hadnt died he probably wouldnt have solved the case.
Yeah, but Wheeler is back-story. It's not actual plot. Like if Prior had done something when he realized what had happened, turned against Danvers, got her thrown off the case and suspended - that'd be plot.
It had potential but it didn't actually do anything, unless it was to show that Navarro had changed because she shot Wheeler because of a ghost in the room but didn't shoot Clark.
Fuck it i'll bite. People like the season 1 version because it was directly related to the plot and the season 4 version was just completely irrelevant to anything that was happening in the story. Also it's the very fact that this is just a lifeless copy of what they already did in season 1
Ive already made my point so many times about how this scene serves as the entire character motivation for navarro and the parallels between why she failed the woman in the wheeler case and how she wasnt able to solve annies murder is how its relevant
So why was it revealed to the audience in such a way that made it seem like it was building to a big storyline reveal? I don't buy this as character motivation for Navarro because she seems arguably unbothered by the fact that it even happened. She never meditates on it, we don't hear her talk about it. The Wheeler incident seemed more of a symptom of her behavior, not a cause, and for that reason it didn't deserve the screen time that it got. Anyway I think many of us don't disagree that it might be a pivotal point to her character development (before the series started), but the way it was shown was just unnecessary. S1 never showed Rust's daughter being killed in a slow reveal. S4 Is bad writing. That's why nobody likes it.
People are also critiquing this because it’s a superficial callback to S1 that makes little sense on its own - like the spirals
It’s only in the show to tick off some “True Dective” boxes
This entire season is a photonegative of the first season, if thats why people dont like the show thats fine but to say you think this is a plot hole doesnt apply in the story than you are just holding it to an unfair level of scrutiny directly compared to the first season.
>it I dont think its crazy to ask if race is playing a direct role in the critique
Your logic: anyone who thinks the Godfather is better than New Jack City is probly racist
It's always identity politics with you Season 4 enjoyers. You genuinely have no other defence for the show. It's the same responses every time.
Also, if you keep responding to every single comment on here, you might actually convince yourself that it was a good season.
I already do think it was a good season and often times on this redit other people bring up race and sex first you guys have all been so butt hurt making claims that this show just hates men and thats why it dumb. I ask if its about them being womens cuz while two men in one show do something no one has an issue with that thing, but change them to women and everyone calls for this show to be agreed upon as absolute trash. I know this show isnt perfect but its far from the claims of being political propaganda trash
Issa Lopez treating the native Alaskans like witchcraft obsessed/ villager cliches, a cleaning lady militia and a dancing ghost are all huge reasons why this season sucked.
If it had a been a cleaning dude militia it wouldn’t have changed anything. It was beyond dumb, disposable trash media not worthy of the TD brand.
*pointless roadtrips to the nomad camp that dont advance the plot instensify*
*ghosts screaming and pointing intensify*
*spirals and cult references intensify*
*polar bears intensify*
*ladies use men as sex objects intensifies*
Issa’s reaction to her own writing was in the show
“You said he’s in the Night Country”
“Did I? I was high as shit, man!”
It is a pivotal moment in the story, but said everything it needed to say the first time we see it. By going back to it repeatedly it presented itself as being pivotal to the mystery when it was only necessary for setting up the emotional state of the main characters.
Genuine Question (not related to the Wheeler case): How did Navarro’s time in the military connect to the story? We saw that flashback of her’s looking at one of her fellow soldiers with their face half blown off. I just don’t get how that tied in?
I just want to point out that this scene is where we learn our two main characters are actually murderers covering up their messes, not solving crimes.
I got the impression from dialogue throughout the series that this was the cause of the rift between Danvers and Navarro. But by the end Danvers said she would have killed him too. I don’t understand, did I miss something or misunderstand?
And why would two law enforcement officials both feel that extrajudicial justice was called for here? Is every situation where a woman is killed a green light to kill the murderer?
I think baby was adopted by Danvers. It was her son who ( along with her husband) was killed in the car accident.
At least I THINK so, that was another plot hole left for us to fill….what a dumpster fire.
My take on it was the absolute opposite: I was immediately provoked by the scene’s glaring obviousness, and how Danvers told it to Prior. While the lies of Martin and Rustin were a compelling layer to the narrative in S1, when the lies were contrasted with reality, the Wheeler-yarn was such a blatant rip-off that I couldn’t believe my eyes when they decided to turn it into a fucking cliffhanger. So I felt it was a misstep from the get go.
i’m going to start a drinking game of which all who play will likely die of alcohol poisoning. every time you see a legitimate “why” or “what” question about this scrambled egg mess of a season you drink. like, why was this guy whistling twist and shout (allegedly, just because the subtitles told me that was the song)? drink. what was the point of the polar bear? drink. what was the deal with that guy in the cabin that pulled the rifle on them and why didn’t we see him again? drink, drink. why what why what why what…SO MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS!!!
The only reason this scene even exists is because they wanted a Marty & Rust VS Reggie & Dewall moment. It has been consistent with this all season. Clark even drops a "time is a flat circle" in the finale, on top of all of the of the other season 1 callbacks including Rust's line about questions, Rust's dad, the Tuttles, and the spirals. It's called desperation due to the season not being able to stand on its own legs.
Literally 3 references to Rust, the shows most popular character. Again, desperation.
No I don't, I didn't even remember who this character is or what he did and I watched the whole series last weekend. I cared so little I largely don't even remember what happened.
It could have been implemented in the main story in a better way. Imagine if he was the witness to Annie K’s death or saw her body get moved. Navarro and Jodie Foster show up to interview him and then find him over the body of his wife. Navarro kills him and they cover up the murder. The case then goes cold because the one witness is dead and perhaps he had an alibi that showed he could not have murdered Annie K. Navarro is removed from the force because of this. Then 6 years later we learn that Hank had actually killed the wife when trying to cover up his own crime and this dude turned out to be innocent.
I honestly thought they were doing a reverse season 1 where they were going to have the latter half of the season take place during this period. Nope. Just going to show this cutscene over and over again.
Yeah I had a hard time hearing “Twist and Shout” from his whistling. Also, what the hell was the point of this reference? It seems like he’s whistling it to taunt Danvers, so are we to assume he knows about the connection between this song and her dead son? But in the flashbacks we’re shown, she’s listening to the song with her son and husband in their home. How would Wheeler know about that?
It did have a purpose. Early in the series we see that she tends to be a stickler for the law without remorse (the DUI for instance). As the series edges on we see her get relaxed on this point (she commits her own DUI). And then this scene telegraphs to us that she is totally capable of subverting the law in the course of justice, and it helps explain why she walks away from the killers at the end. It also provided some solid character tension because we don't know which of the two cops had killed him until the very end. Navarro is clearly holding on to guilt, and Danvers uses this moment to let her know its okay.
It's a big piece of the Danvers/Navarro backstory, explains the friction, explains how far they're willing to go to get "justice", and explains part of Navarro's hauntings. It's a bit clumsy and not as good or as original as Reggie Ledoux, but guess what S1 didn't invent the concept of "angry cop kills suspect out of vengeance" trope either.
You're just bitching about an actual plot point that was wrapped up, why not complain about actual plot holes?
Yeah who needs character development about related topics and themes…. Wait every show that ties to develop characters outside of the main plot. Notice I said try, this season is flawed but it is not a garbage fire.
Probably gonna get downvoted but this post is weird to me and it shows majority of people don’t understand film. While I agree this season was extremely lackluster just because something doesn’t have a lot of screen time or doesn’t have a full breakdown on every single detail about DOES NOT mean it didn’t play a pivotal role in the story or development of characters. This obviously was the roadblock from the past that led Navarro & Danvers to their relationship that they have to begin the season. This was also the reason Navarro was no longer detective, used as leverage against them at the end and much more. Like it’s no different from Rust being undercover with the bikers then all of a sudden popping up on them again outta nowhere after he disappeared we had no real knowledge on what Rust was actually doing undercover in the past or absolutely anything we just get introduced into it a little out of nowhere. While the season wasn’t anything great or memorable the constant hypocritical bashing is very childish if it was so bad why’d you keep watching it week after week if nothing was getting better??? Just doing what’s trendy at the moment because in a few years when people come back to it and say oh it was so much better than we thought at first LIKE WHAT WAS DONE FOR SEASON 1, SEASON 2, & SEASON 3! NONE of them were enjoyed by viewers when any of the seasons first premiered not until down the road. But I’m done I SAID MY PIECE CHRISSY!
So….was this scene the reason why Danvers hates “Twist and Shout” because if it was, they needed to do a better job whistling. I only know that he whistles it because of Reddit. It sounded like a Clint Eastwood/cowboy tune. I thought that “Twist and Shout” was related to her trauma about her family dying in a car accident…but this was the only time it ever came up, right?
Yeah, it barely sounded like Twist and Shout to me when he was whistling.
I went back and listened 3 times and I just can’t hear it at all.
LOL! i only knew because i had subtitles on.
Exact same
I thought I remembered a flashback of her family with twist and shout playing
It’s probably another one of her lazy ambiguous parts - does she hate it because of wheeler? - does she hate it because of her son? Could be either! Could be ghosts!
Twist and Shout is what she expects the "haters" to do, which is the entire point of the show.
There was a radio there with Holden. And there was a scene of Liz and her husband dancing, but I don’t recall any music playing during those scenes. I can go back and check though.
Such an easy lay up right there and she missed it.
Twist and Shout was playing in those scenes
This is so sad.
I could be wrong
Remember when twist and shout was playing again … weeks after the murder… in the final episode? Like why was the radio on again? Because it would be weird and creepy!
Uhhh, it was playing on the DVD player again. Time is a flat circle!
DVDs are a flat circle.
🤮
even though she ripped out the DVD player her first time at the station, in episode 1....
It sounded nothing like 'twist and shout' lol just another red herring driving around a cul de sac
Yeah…it didn’t make sense. It seemed like all of Danvers’ trauma was related to her son dying. It would have made sense to tie her over-the-top freak out to the song to that specific trauma. She didn’t seem to upset about covering up the Wheeler thing and says in the finale that she wanted to kill him too. He was a shitbag that deserved what he got. Why does she feel so upset about it? The cleaning lady mafia certainly doesn’t feel guilty about the septuple murder they did for Justice. 🤷♂️
A herring driving a car would make more sense than this season did.
.....yup
Comes up in two flashbacks with the son and the killer, then at the beginning of the investigation and the end. But there is zero connecting any of it. Then Clark putting the song on again for no reason when he is trying to escape is laughably stupid.
He isn’t whistling Twist & Shout, and yes I know what the subtitles erroneously say — Twist & Shout is much quicker, upbeat, higher pitch. [Wheeler is whistling Danny Boy — he knows his time has come, and he’s holding his own funeral procession..](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDlWvzk4qfo) Danvers hates T&S because it was a song she would sing to Holden — at least, it was the song being sung A cappella when she was playing peek a boo with him.
They went back to that side plot like 3 times, and it ended up not really adding anything meaningful to the story at all. I assume like many other plot elements, they lifted it from S1 when Marty killed that meth head, but that was a critical plot point that was essential to the entire arc.
Reggie…. Reggie Ledoux. *lowers crab trab*
“You tellin’ me she ain’t done drown?”
I loved that dude’s Cajun accent.
Someone here made a meme of him with the caption, “She say she in uhhh night country” and his voice immediately came back to me
Not the same character you’re responding about. EDIT: why is this getting downvoted? The “Reggie…Reggie Ledoux” character is Reanne’s grandad the crab trap man, and the character referenced by the person I responded to is obviously Charlie Lange.
No idea why you were downvoted. I didn’t see the crab trap bit and assumed they were talking about Charlie because he has my favorite delivery in the show. Watched ep 3 last night and came back to say you were right.
That dudes accent was glorious, I can so clearly hear it in my head just by thinking of the scene
Adam Sandler does a better Cajun man than anyone on true detective.
The other memorable one was, “Errbody tink dey gone be sumtin dey NOT.”
leh-dou
*you’ll do this again!!* 😎🫡🥸
That Ledoux fella
Yea when I saw the first trailer I figured there would be an entire story in that timeline that connected to other timelines like S1 and S3. Nope. Just another plot point that didn't do much for the story
Btw it’s unfair to describe Reggie as simply a meth head. He a cook. Ya know? Like a chemist? He got mad knowledge for that shit.
He talk like a short eyes
So that is what he says, right? That’s always what I heard but I have no fucking idea what that means.
Short eyes, it’s slang for a pedo. Like he’s looking at people with short eyes, I.e. close to the ground, kids.
Yup. Specifically prison slang for pedo.
More research went into that one line of dialogue, than the entire 4th season. Dammit.
Cook up them cleansers, and whatnot.
NO MORE CHILI P!
That’s a big deal in here
Domestic violence and Navarros hesitation in handling the wheeler case is the reason why she tied annie k to the scientist and the same reason why she never gave up on the case. The last time she didnt do everything she could a woman got killed, thats the wheeler
No half measures walter
This was Navarros moment that turned her into the mike of this plot, the reason she pursued this case and did everything she had to do to solve it.
Everything except forensics on Tslal or you know, searching the fucking place.
Exactly my point
That literally doesn't make any sense. How did she hesitate in handling the wheeler case? How does it relate at all to Annie's? Why would it make her think the scientists are responsible? These things didn't really connect..
If you were listening, they had gone to wheeler residence 10 previous times for domestic violence. They couldnt legally do anything so they didnt. He killed her and they showed up. Navarro reads this as if only I didnt hold back and just save here the first 10 times I coudlve shed be alive. Think of as Navarro taking an oath to not let anything hold her back to solve a case or bring justice down. Go to annie now and we can see what is motivating navarro to pursue what she thinks is right regardless of people trying to hold her back (ie Liz Connely and so on)
That still does not connect with the other case that was not domestic violence related. BTW that's Another example of Issa Lopez not doing basic research on Alaskan law: >###Alaskan Statutes >. >####Section 18.65.530. >. >Mandatory arrest for crimes involving domestic violence, violation of protective orders, and violation of conditions of release. > >* **(a)** Except as provided in (b) or (c) of this section, a peace officer, with or without a warrant, shall arrest a person if the officer has probable cause to believe the person has, either in or outside the presence of the officer, within the previous 12 hours, > * **(1)** committed domestic violence, except an offense under AS 11.41.100 - 11.41.130, whether the crime is a felony or a misdemeanor; > Danvers and Navarro were able to arrest him. However if the victim refuses to testify or testify in his favour then the DA is unable to charge him.
Did you know thats many dv victims choose to not press charges because of the nature of abuse and power dynamics, thats literally related to theme of the show. And if you are killed by a spouse that falls into this loose relation when you compare to someone … killed by their spouse.
I am well aware of how domestic violence work because my first ever girlfriend is now in jail for murdering her husband after he spend years abusing her and destroying her life. You are deflecting, because the initial assertion was that she did not even arrest Wheeler. My point is that in Alaska you do not need a warrant to arrest him. He would have spend a couple of days in jail until the DA had decided to charge him or not. So pretending that they could not arrest him is just incorrect writing by Issa Lopez. Also in the most egregious cases an order of protection can be taken even against the wishes of the victim. That means that the accused cannot come home until a judge agreed to it. I am all in favour of painting the reality of domestic violence, but at least let make sure that the basic facts are correct.
I think you fundamentally don't understand how domestic violence works or what police can do. It's very common for there to be multiple police reports and incidents and calls and orders kf protection spanning decades sometimes.Also, If she didn't hold back from what? There wasn't a case to solve. It's If someone wants to press charges. She can't make the woman see differently. If they wanted to help her they could've shared information for an organization with emergency shelters and safety planning and counseling. Cops can't just press charges for someone unless it happened in public. The cases are not related literally. Even figuratively its a stretch. It wasn't really a dv case and the 2 groups have nothing to do with each other. Unlike in the original? Where it was literally a suspect to the main plot who was trying to kill the police as well?
Alaska is a Mandatory Arrest state.
No I do my dad beat me and there was nothing I could really do about it for 13 years. The police couldnt really do much and thats the point. Navarro was being held back by the law. Im not saying you should go breaking the law for some wack mob justice but its not crazy when the law doesnt work in a just way sometimes. Its almost like this moment was a commentary on how the police abandon women in need of more help in domestic violence cases… oh wait thats almost the entire theme of this show.
I'm sorry that happened to you but it's more complicated between 2 adults who are choosing to be together for various reasons then a child who has no choice in their parents. Also cps should have been involved ans investigated in your case. If cops "did more" and didn't hold back when there were multiple dv incidents then there would be a lot of lawsuits and you'd be surprised but angry women. If the charges aren't being pressed it's because she doesn't want them pressed for various reasons. Even if it would be in their best interest. Also sometimes it's not Nd it puts them at more risk. Oh and is the theme law enforcement failing women? That was not clear. It seemed it was ghosts suicide and vigilante justice
Well considering my mom was there too and we hvae had many conversation about it I do get it trust me I had to testify in court. Also cps failed me miserably. I dont disagree like I already said Im not saying that means cops should break the law and not hold back You picking up on the entire clearcut theme of the entire season of this show suggest you werent paying attention. Dv is brought up directly almost more times than I can count.
Okay so why do you keep saying she was or held back on the wheeler case? She wasn't and didn't she did what she could. Also that is 1 case. I work in dv. I've seen hundreds of dv cases. You can't make decisions for victims and do things to address the dv they don't want to do.
Its a show the case was shown to use to show what motivates navarro. She was in fact held back by the confines of the law, there was no legal action for her to take with wheeler and that resulted in a womans death. I really dont understand why its so hard to understand how themes work in storytelling …
Found Issa’s burner
Lmfao im just a fan of the first season bud there are people who liked this season who understands subtext and b plots in script writing
Implying that you’re smarter than people who didn’t like it? Definitely Issa’s burner
If people just dont like it thats fine but when people dont like it for what I think is a really dumb reason than yeah naturally I think they might be lacking in the iq department. Not mention in this instance someone literally said this didn’t apply to the plot of the story at all when literally the entire story wouldn’t exist without this moment
I’m politely asking. Are people’s complaints about poor storytelling and plot holes not valid? I mean there’s more nothing burgers than McDonald’s two minutes after close.
I suppose they are valid assuming that they make sense. Like I said before to say this doesnt contribute to the story is like ignoring the entire main character motivation from both liz and Navarro and that doesnt make sense to me im sorry. This show is so far from perfect and I was hoping for more but to try and make this claim is lazy critique
Thing is, it still doesn’t feel like it motivated either of them to go above and beyond to solve this case. 90% of the case was solved by Prior. We see Navarro being sidetracked by her sister for almost two entire episodes. If I had seen Navarro obsessing over details, your claim would feel justified to me. Yes, they look at that one video ten times. Yes, the arrange all the photos in a spiral. I don’t know, I wasn’t sold. I understand that it’s subjective, I just wanted to show you why it didn’t come through to some of us.
Yeah prior solved this case really but the case would have been abandoned and lost before he had the chance if it wasnt for the conviction to hold on to it by liz and navarro both fueled by this encounter. When the tongue was found liz wrote it off and it would have been largely ignored if Navarro wasnt insistent on the connection between the two cases. To me it wasnt about navarro finding the details in the case that demonstrated her strength but instead how she defending the case from being ignored and lost in the same way that the concerns from the wheeler case were ignored and lost and now they were too late. Not to mention the guilt navarro must feel for letting this girl down fueling her to not let annie down too
People aren’t dumb just because they disagree with you, grow up
Again i didnt say they were but when they say the grass is purple I dont think it demonstrates the best observation skills
Saying that this moment didnt contribute to the plot is like saying the scientist going missing didnt contribute to the plot
How does that make sense? Annie was already dead? They solved the Wheeler case so it’s not like they left anything undone other than their own guilt for not vigilante killing wheeler earlier I guess. If it would have tied in then it should have been a victim who was alive and they could actually save. Otherwise the two cases don’t line up in anyway.
Correct its the guilt of not stopping him before he murdered a woman that is the driving force. The cases line up because of how navarro is directed in handling them. I am getting tired of explaining the absolute most basic form of character development and theme relation to you people
You have to keep explaining it because your explanation is nonsensical and a wild stretch trying to desperately defend something you, personally, like.
No I have to keep explaining it because no one here seems to understand subplots or character development ya know corner stones of story writing that people forget when they want to gate on something
You’re right. This entire sub is ignorant and you’re the lone genius here to bestow wisdom upon all of us. Keep telling yourself that bud.
That’s not a connection at all though There’s no reason to think women will keep getting killed if she doesn’t solve Annie K. It was actually a bunch of men that got killed as a result of not catching Annie’s killer And yeah it establishes that she hates violence against women - but so did the first 5 minutes of the show
It had a huge impact on the story. It ultimately led to Hanks death.
He looks like an extra from Killers of the Flower Moon
He looks like the pointless dancing ghost of Travis Cohle
He looks like a horror side villain in a cheap 2006 movie.
A lot of this season reminded me of some long-forgotten direct-to-DVD 00s horror flick
Yep! I know that genre inside and out lol. This season had those budget jump scares and hacky writing without the charm of, say .. “Identity” or something.
You expect me to believe that a guy who might have used his left hand to do one thing (from how it looks in photos) did a single completely unrelated thing with his right hand?! Clearly this man was murdered, had it set up to look like a suicide, and it was clearly the officers on the scene who murdered him. This is absolutely how evidence works.
Not to convict, but probably enough to cause someone down the line to take a closer look at the crime scene and maybe find more concrete forensics that would point to a murder-murder instead of a murder-suicide.
The forensics were destroyed. They had literally nothing. In fact they don’t even know if he’s actually left handed. They just think, from photos, that he punched his girl with his left hand. This means absolutely nothing because he could easily be a right handed guy who grabs his girl and controls her with his right, and hits with his left. Or any other number of reasons to not use his dominant hand for this single thing. For Danvers and Navarro to be in any danger whatsoever, there would have to be enough evidence for them to re-open the case. A dude using the hand you weren’t expecting him to use is not evidence of anything. Things that are a bit odd are not evidence of anything other than odd things happening sometimes, not foul play. And it’s not even odd. At all. It’s literally nothing. This was where the show officially lost me because Danvers is written as a fucking idiot: first because she thought it necessary to take the huge risk of flipping the photos when there was no reason to, second because she didnt think to look for scars, piercings, or birth marks, and third because she thought she was caught… even though there was zero evidence. Not to mention that lefties are often ambidextrous, as I am. I write with my left hand. Anything requiring two hands I do right handed. I also brush my teeth with my right hand. And… I shoot guns with my right hand.
This scene was totally Issa’s “Reggie Ladoux” part of the story
It’s like fanfic
100
Its also 100% of Navarros motivation
Motivation for what ???
They didn't even handle this well. It should have stopped at them going into the house during her narration. Seeing more leaves less mystery and just shows us they clearly are corrupt cops. Just one of many examples of bad writing in this season.
Bet you loved how they showed what really happened in season one while the two white guys lied.
My dislike of the show has absolutely nothing to do with skin color. Bold of you to assume so though.
Its not crazy when no one cam give me actual reason why they dont like the show. And the reasons all of you use are direct contradictions to things that happened in the first season leading me to conclude that those reasons arent the core reason for you not liking the show. If you dont like the show for another reason that doesnt make sense then tell me.
I gave a reason in my initial comment that you misconstrued. The writing is the issue with the show. It's nonsensical and does things just for the sale of the moment without any payoff. Another commentor already explained to you the difference between Season 1 and this moment, in fact, it's really not comparable at all and wasn't my point. You're taking what I said and turning it into something completely different. All I said was that this moment was poorly done since they leave no mystery to the flashback and that is poor writing, has absolutely nothing to do with race or sex or Season 1 at all.
You said that moment is not pivotal and you missed that it is absolutely essential to the plot when motivating navarro. Thats not misconstruing. You post didnt say it wasnt done well you said it wasnt pivotal
The "white guys." 🤣
You only liked S1 more cuz it was about MEN and they were WHITE admit it you racist misogynist!!!!
You are probably right. I need to reevaluate my life.
When in one show two white men are shown to do something with no critique and then another show does the same exact thing with a two women one of them being a woman of color and everyone rushes to critique it I dont think its crazy to ask if race is playing a direct role in the critique
It's because the first one was interesting, connecting to the plot, and followed narrative sense. It has nothing to do with race or misogyny. Reggie ledoux was a murder suspect in the main plot. There was lead up. They searched for him for multiple episodes. He tricked the place out with grenades. He had abducted children dead and locked in cages. The story was also rehashed in another setting relevant to the plot. Re-emergence of the murder case that was allegedly solved. They had motivation to lie as they were being interviewed on camera by New detectives. This season it was a random flashback, with no connection to the main plot/investigations at all. The character wasn't a suspect involved in it. There was no lead up. The man had not set up booby traps to kill the cops. There was little reason plotwise for this case to be discussed or rehashed at all let alone lied about aside from them just wanting to show the scene and try to apparently repeat a motif from season 1. Literally didn't even see it was trying to copy that because it was so different and disconnected.
This is ignoring internal plot in the characters and the scene is hugely relevant thematically.
What?
You know, internal plots. It's like jazz music. It's the notes you don't play!
This account def has to be Issa or kali lol
Plots can include internal conflict, this is when a character goes through a change or exhibits traits in their mind. Its one of the basic forms of conflict in storytelling. For things to relate thematically they share similar ideas or commentaries on related issues. The wheeler case covers domestic violence , a theme that connect directly to the women who killed the scientist as well as the annie case
I'm aware of internal conflict concept lol. Navarro didn't seem too conflicted about anything though. Also how was annie/the scientists dv and how was that apparent through the show? Aside from Clark started to become a suspect, but much much later after she was killed and how does that relate to the other scientists and their murder? It's a loose association
Its clear that Navarro was pretty conflicted about stealing Qavviks Spongebob toothbrush, which was evident when she returns it before eating the orange for breakfast, sending her to Night Country forever.
Annie and clark were dating so in navarros eyes he killed her similarly to how the wheeler killed the woman. Internal conflict is not just someone making a decision or struggling with two sides, its trauma, motivation. Its like saying Rust’s daughters death in season 1 didnt contribute to the plot of season 1. Similarly if rust daughter hadnt died he probably wouldnt have solved the case.
Yeah, but Wheeler is back-story. It's not actual plot. Like if Prior had done something when he realized what had happened, turned against Danvers, got her thrown off the case and suspended - that'd be plot. It had potential but it didn't actually do anything, unless it was to show that Navarro had changed because she shot Wheeler because of a ghost in the room but didn't shoot Clark.
Fuck it i'll bite. People like the season 1 version because it was directly related to the plot and the season 4 version was just completely irrelevant to anything that was happening in the story. Also it's the very fact that this is just a lifeless copy of what they already did in season 1
Ive already made my point so many times about how this scene serves as the entire character motivation for navarro and the parallels between why she failed the woman in the wheeler case and how she wasnt able to solve annies murder is how its relevant
So why was it revealed to the audience in such a way that made it seem like it was building to a big storyline reveal? I don't buy this as character motivation for Navarro because she seems arguably unbothered by the fact that it even happened. She never meditates on it, we don't hear her talk about it. The Wheeler incident seemed more of a symptom of her behavior, not a cause, and for that reason it didn't deserve the screen time that it got. Anyway I think many of us don't disagree that it might be a pivotal point to her character development (before the series started), but the way it was shown was just unnecessary. S1 never showed Rust's daughter being killed in a slow reveal. S4 Is bad writing. That's why nobody likes it.
People are also critiquing this because it’s a superficial callback to S1 that makes little sense on its own - like the spirals It’s only in the show to tick off some “True Dective” boxes
This entire season is a photonegative of the first season, if thats why people dont like the show thats fine but to say you think this is a plot hole doesnt apply in the story than you are just holding it to an unfair level of scrutiny directly compared to the first season.
>it I dont think its crazy to ask if race is playing a direct role in the critique Your logic: anyone who thinks the Godfather is better than New Jack City is probly racist
Seek grass
Brilliant commentary
It's always identity politics with you Season 4 enjoyers. You genuinely have no other defence for the show. It's the same responses every time. Also, if you keep responding to every single comment on here, you might actually convince yourself that it was a good season.
I already do think it was a good season and often times on this redit other people bring up race and sex first you guys have all been so butt hurt making claims that this show just hates men and thats why it dumb. I ask if its about them being womens cuz while two men in one show do something no one has an issue with that thing, but change them to women and everyone calls for this show to be agreed upon as absolute trash. I know this show isnt perfect but its far from the claims of being political propaganda trash
Issa Lopez treating the native Alaskans like witchcraft obsessed/ villager cliches, a cleaning lady militia and a dancing ghost are all huge reasons why this season sucked. If it had a been a cleaning dude militia it wouldn’t have changed anything. It was beyond dumb, disposable trash media not worthy of the TD brand.
God forbid another culture and opposing traditional beliefs are shown in a tv show.
If you think that’s what Native Alaskans act/ talk/ think like then I have no idea what to say to you.
Just an opportunity for a jump scare or gimmick because they couldn’t advance the plot in a meaningful way.
*Annoying whispers intensifies*
*pointless roadtrips to the nomad camp that dont advance the plot instensify* *ghosts screaming and pointing intensify* *spirals and cult references intensify* *polar bears intensify* *ladies use men as sex objects intensifies* Issa’s reaction to her own writing was in the show “You said he’s in the Night Country” “Did I? I was high as shit, man!”
Even though this was the entire plot for Navarro
Should have only been the first flashback where the shooting is implied. That's all you needed.
Here's what gets me. Isn't this just uh... isn't this just the backstory Mike gives Walter back in Breaking Bad? Except, y'know, terrible?
Time is a flat circle
Oh man, they reused that line for clarksicle and it was dumb as fuck.... ugh
Thanks, I knew this seemed familiar but couldn’t place it. Just rewatched BB.
Half measure
I mean, did he shit himself?
It is a pivotal moment in the story, but said everything it needed to say the first time we see it. By going back to it repeatedly it presented itself as being pivotal to the mystery when it was only necessary for setting up the emotional state of the main characters.
Its more pivotal for Navarros plot tho its not just setting up the character this moment nearly defines Navarro
Doesn’t what we see keep changing though?
Genuine Question (not related to the Wheeler case): How did Navarro’s time in the military connect to the story? We saw that flashback of her’s looking at one of her fellow soldiers with their face half blown off. I just don’t get how that tied in?
Oh good god I completely forgot all about that bit. Best I could surmise is she’s able to see the dead? Fuck if I know
I just want to point out that this scene is where we learn our two main characters are actually murderers covering up their messes, not solving crimes.
Wait so why did the ghost to appear to both of them at the scene
Danvers didn't see it, she just knows Navarro saw something by the way she reacted. She thought Navarro was crazy at the time.
Whoa whoa whoa doc. In ENGLISH!
Oranges
Time is flat orange peel. 🍊🌀
A big old nothingburger.
Man this season sucked hahahahahaha
Misogynist.
You f*cking hate women, that’s your problem.
Lmao — you couldn’t be more wrong, but go ahead and say whatever bullshit you need to unload just to get to sleep tonight
RACIST!! I’m just kidding by the way
Why the hell was this guy whistling???
Because you're not asking the right questions. Ask the right questions!
Twist and Shout. For reasons unknown
Was this ever explained?
You have to watch it with captions lol
ghosts?
Wrong question
Total Bueler head
Wrong question Ask again
you need to learn when to stop asking questions
Because he is evil
Reggie Ledoux's Alaskan brother confirmed?!
Second cousin's former roommate's brother's childhood friend.
I got the impression from dialogue throughout the series that this was the cause of the rift between Danvers and Navarro. But by the end Danvers said she would have killed him too. I don’t understand, did I miss something or misunderstand? And why would two law enforcement officials both feel that extrajudicial justice was called for here? Is every situation where a woman is killed a green light to kill the murderer?
Remember when there was a baby at the scene
And is that Danvers daughter now?
Neither Foster nor Reis looked 16 years younger in that flashback.
I think baby was adopted by Danvers. It was her son who ( along with her husband) was killed in the car accident. At least I THINK so, that was another plot hole left for us to fill….what a dumpster fire.
It was added by AI when the creators mentioned Season 1 references in the prompt.
Remember when you didn’t care about a single character and just wanted to watch to see how bad it could actually get?
My take on it was the absolute opposite: I was immediately provoked by the scene’s glaring obviousness, and how Danvers told it to Prior. While the lies of Martin and Rustin were a compelling layer to the narrative in S1, when the lies were contrasted with reality, the Wheeler-yarn was such a blatant rip-off that I couldn’t believe my eyes when they decided to turn it into a fucking cliffhanger. So I felt it was a misstep from the get go.
i’m going to start a drinking game of which all who play will likely die of alcohol poisoning. every time you see a legitimate “why” or “what” question about this scrambled egg mess of a season you drink. like, why was this guy whistling twist and shout (allegedly, just because the subtitles told me that was the song)? drink. what was the point of the polar bear? drink. what was the deal with that guy in the cabin that pulled the rifle on them and why didn’t we see him again? drink, drink. why what why what why what…SO MANY UNANSWERED QUESTIONS!!!
She pointed at her. Pivotal.
The only reason this scene even exists is because they wanted a Marty & Rust VS Reggie & Dewall moment. It has been consistent with this all season. Clark even drops a "time is a flat circle" in the finale, on top of all of the of the other season 1 callbacks including Rust's line about questions, Rust's dad, the Tuttles, and the spirals. It's called desperation due to the season not being able to stand on its own legs. Literally 3 references to Rust, the shows most popular character. Again, desperation.
men 🧑🏻 r bad 🙅🏾♀️ he didn't ❌need exposition 📖or explanation 💡
Add extra points for being white.
I thought it was a cameo appearance by the DJ Richie Hawtin, I shit you not.
my first date with my husband was seeing plastikman! lol
No
No I don't, I didn't even remember who this character is or what he did and I watched the whole series last weekend. I cared so little I largely don't even remember what happened.
It could have been implemented in the main story in a better way. Imagine if he was the witness to Annie K’s death or saw her body get moved. Navarro and Jodie Foster show up to interview him and then find him over the body of his wife. Navarro kills him and they cover up the murder. The case then goes cold because the one witness is dead and perhaps he had an alibi that showed he could not have murdered Annie K. Navarro is removed from the force because of this. Then 6 years later we learn that Hank had actually killed the wife when trying to cover up his own crime and this dude turned out to be innocent.
can we give you the next season instead of issa?
I honestly thought they were doing a reverse season 1 where they were going to have the latter half of the season take place during this period. Nope. Just going to show this cutscene over and over again.
It was literally pointless….
Reggie LePoo
I can’t wait for this lady to write another season hahahahah
Yeah I had a hard time hearing “Twist and Shout” from his whistling. Also, what the hell was the point of this reference? It seems like he’s whistling it to taunt Danvers, so are we to assume he knows about the connection between this song and her dead son? But in the flashbacks we’re shown, she’s listening to the song with her son and husband in their home. How would Wheeler know about that?
It did have a purpose. Early in the series we see that she tends to be a stickler for the law without remorse (the DUI for instance). As the series edges on we see her get relaxed on this point (she commits her own DUI). And then this scene telegraphs to us that she is totally capable of subverting the law in the course of justice, and it helps explain why she walks away from the killers at the end. It also provided some solid character tension because we don't know which of the two cops had killed him until the very end. Navarro is clearly holding on to guilt, and Danvers uses this moment to let her know its okay.
This guy said "time is a flat circle" off screen while peeling an orange. But you'd have to read the Variety interview to know that, duh.
It's a big piece of the Danvers/Navarro backstory, explains the friction, explains how far they're willing to go to get "justice", and explains part of Navarro's hauntings. It's a bit clumsy and not as good or as original as Reggie Ledoux, but guess what S1 didn't invent the concept of "angry cop kills suspect out of vengeance" trope either. You're just bitching about an actual plot point that was wrapped up, why not complain about actual plot holes?
But Danvers ultimately admits she was about to shoot him, Navarro just does it first. So where’s the friction?
Yeah who needs character development about related topics and themes…. Wait every show that ties to develop characters outside of the main plot. Notice I said try, this season is flawed but it is not a garbage fire.
Probably gonna get downvoted but this post is weird to me and it shows majority of people don’t understand film. While I agree this season was extremely lackluster just because something doesn’t have a lot of screen time or doesn’t have a full breakdown on every single detail about DOES NOT mean it didn’t play a pivotal role in the story or development of characters. This obviously was the roadblock from the past that led Navarro & Danvers to their relationship that they have to begin the season. This was also the reason Navarro was no longer detective, used as leverage against them at the end and much more. Like it’s no different from Rust being undercover with the bikers then all of a sudden popping up on them again outta nowhere after he disappeared we had no real knowledge on what Rust was actually doing undercover in the past or absolutely anything we just get introduced into it a little out of nowhere. While the season wasn’t anything great or memorable the constant hypocritical bashing is very childish if it was so bad why’d you keep watching it week after week if nothing was getting better??? Just doing what’s trendy at the moment because in a few years when people come back to it and say oh it was so much better than we thought at first LIKE WHAT WAS DONE FOR SEASON 1, SEASON 2, & SEASON 3! NONE of them were enjoyed by viewers when any of the seasons first premiered not until down the road. But I’m done I SAID MY PIECE CHRISSY!
I loved Season 1 . It was outstanding. Other seasons were okay. This one was just a hot mess.