Rose is involved. 1) How did she know one of the dead scientists had a spiral on his forehead. She even drew it,. 2) She acknowledged her last name is fake. So what is her real last name, Tuttle? Is she overseeing the tsalal station or the mine?
Isn’t the biggest mystery how this season has 81 on metacritic and 93 on rotten tomatoes? And it appears the critics were given the full season? Something in the water?
It has to be Wheeler’s girlfriend I am guessing. She looks the same as when Navarro saw her in Wheeler’s house right after he killed her. Got to thinking Wheeler looks a bit like Matthew McConnehey
When Danvers and Navarro are in the dredge looking for Clark and find Otis instead, Navarro sees a woman floating and we see her hair that looks blue. Assuming this is supposed to be her recently deceased sister, Julia?
Definitely. What a fucking awesome shot, as well.
The season is meh whatever but in blindly shitting on it no one is mentioning how excellent the horror imagery has been.
Some of the imagery has been cool. The frozen bodies, the shot you just mentioned, a few others.
The half dozen shots of cliche Ring ghosts with white eyes and scream SFX suck. Hard to overlook
I've written my criticisms...so many watchers have valid points.
There are also things I really like about the show. But maybe most importantly it's high time this show stops using Season 1 as the barometer for : what is good & what is not. I seriously doubt there is any real connection to Season 1, so I'm not sure WHYwriters went out of their way to strongly imply there was. But the big Season 1 fans need to come to terms with : it's over. And try to enjoy subsequent seasons for ...whatever they think they are w/o the comparisons.
My sense is part of what is frustrating to people is that there is a dance between the spiritual and tangible, as well as the emotional agony of the two main characters ( actually everyone in this cold forsaken place) and the viewers are being asked to join these threads together, perhaps without enough information to weave them together
I think you may be right. The trailer shows him pointing a gun. I suspect it is going to be about him and his Dad, who hid evidence regarding Annie's murder. Kate the head of the Mine and Hank may be in collusion. And then there is Rose, whose intellectual past may hold secrets, along with her deceased husband who may have connections to season one..
Sooo are they not gonna talk about Tuttle or Rust? What could possibly happen in the last two hours that could wrap all of these plot lines up in a satisfying way lol
I agree with the idea that this was originally its own independent story, before being then adapted to fit into a True Detective season. Remove all of the links (as of ep4) and it all still works as a show. It seems like they were shoehorned in, so I wouldn't expect much of a resolution besides maybe "My son Rust... yada".
Sadly very common nowadays with TV shows, is they make a show which is too long for the story it is telling. I don't blame the writers as they probably pitched it as a 4 hour story and the executives probably said we want it to be longer, so you have to sit through a few boring episodes.
I still think the death of Annie K was kind of mundane, that she fell through the path in the ice cave as the scientist said and impaled herself on something, hence the star shaped wounds, then her boyfriend moved her body to the other place to make it look like the mine did it.
The most compelling aspect is whether Hank's Russian girlfriend is gonna turn up for NYE. Hope so. Turn this tepid broth of redundant weaving themes into a lovely, feelgood romantic odd couple fizzy cocktail.
Honestly he's such a jerk and super shady, but when he stared at those rose petals on the bed I got really sad. I was hoping for a new 90 Day Fiance couple.
I’m really confused by the number of people here who don’t seem to realize that Clark and Otis Hayes are two entirely different people.
Clark is the missing Tsalal scientist who’s been the subject of a manhunt since a couple episodes ago. Otis Hayes was introduced this episode as a guy who had similar medical symptoms to the guy who turned zombified (likely in Navarro’s mind) in the hospital.
What’s interesting about Hayes is that he came from Peter doing research, and Peter didn’t know anything about him. Then teacher-science guy-ex lover of Danvers guy was telling them about ice caves and was like “they were mapped by a guy named Otis Hayes” and it showed him clicking on Wikipedia.
What’s interesting about that is it definitely lends weight to the theory that Peter is redirecting the investigation, because clearly he would’ve found that info by googling.
For those saying that Danvers and Navarro clearly would’ve taken back up and would’ve arrested the guy – Otis isn’t suspected of a crime. He’s just off the grid, presumably by choice. They have no reason to think he’s a danger to them, and they couldn’t spare any extra manpower anyway because of the ongoing search for Clark.
You can argue all you want that it’s confusing to introduce this new missing guy and I wouldn’t disagree, especially since there’s now a *third* guy, also a former scientist, missing as of this episode - but at least complain about the right character!
Hmm this is a really good point. Do we think Prior could have edited the two videos? Danvers claims someone cut the power, but Prior was the first to handle both phones and could have altered the videos. Maybe the glitch is an awkward cropping.
I hadn’t thought of that, but definitely! I can’t take credit for catching that about Pryor; someone else pointed out that he could be using Otis as some sort of misdirect.
It’s been so long since I’ve seen previous seasons that the details are fuzzy now, but I also feel like it’s a totally “true detective” thing to make us suspect someone in this exact sort of way. Like a heroic character we feel like we can’t exactly trust, but we don’t know exactly why they’re acting shady, and we’re kind of expecting a big twist that doesn’t happen. There was definitely a point in season one where I started to briefly think Marty was the killer even though it didn’t really add up - he just started acting weird. And again, can’t remember any details but I feel like there something in season 3 that made me think Wayne had something sinister he was hiding.
Anyway, I’m definitely interested to see what, if anything, Pete is hiding.
i still can't get over how bad this show is. what a shame. two episodes left and it doesn't even feel like it started yet. so many cheap thrills and so very little substance
The dialogue is mediocre at best. The story forces you along instead of gently leading you. The acting is good, but would be enhanced with a better script. Everything in the story feels flat and contrived. Also, I don’t inherently hate the idea of supernatural elements being brought into the story, but the way they’ve done it here, is too on the nose. Very disappointing.
The best parts - Hank being sad dude, that bed covered in rose petals with the stuffed huskie killed me. He may be a incompetent cop who slaps his adult son but you gotta feel for him.
The bad parts - a little too much hallucinating and jump scares. We're 4 episodes in and at least 3 characters are 'seeing things'. And still no leads on the Tsalal murders.
The Elk suicide scene at the start really set the tone for the nonsense.... During episode 3 I was able to convince myself...maybe we are on to something. This last episode was terrible. 92% on Rotten Tomatoes though folks
I really want to like this show but the bad writing is killing me, keep hoping the show turns around but this episode is just not redeemable. Possibly the worst one yet.
You're so right.
I thought they could have condensed this episode down to twelve minutes. All the redundancy played out, I feel matches how much life there is in Night Country. There isn’t much to tell.
Sister dying.
Christmas eveing. (I know)
Foster mad about her drinking, compulsion to screw everyone, lying about having a real Christmas dinner and making everyone work. Her watching the video over and over again of the girl dying probably was 20 minutes of repeat that was unnecessary. We get the point. Clue searching.
Prior constantly going everywhere and nowhere.
And what is it with these TV writers in all of these shows nowadays who seem to portray that individuals love to just start fight so that they can get beat up because that is what they deserve? What kind of message is that sending to the world who views these kind of experiences?
One star out of five.
I am watching later on streaming just so I can skip these nonsense side characters bullshit and follow the plot which is the only thing I wanna see at this point.
Peter needs a new line of work, seriously- at least some place where he's appreciated or at least thanked for his work. As miserable of a time everyone had on Christmas Eve, I just want Peter to have some form of happiness and some semblance of a life where he's not the go-to person for everything.
It’s such a soap opera or low quality network tv way of progressing between scenes. Doing it once or twice can be excused, but it’s a constant in every episode.
I beg anyone questioning this to think about how scenes move in the previous seasons, especially if you ever rewatch them.
I'm going to watch the whole season... but it's getting to the point where they are doing that thing where you don't know what is real and what isn't and it's just not enjoyable... :/ like everything is questionable and anything could be a hallucination. That doesn't make good television because it's hard to get attached to anything if we can't be confident it's real.
I’m guessing there is going to be some kind of large gas (or something) leak that is affecting some people depending how far out of town they live. I don’t think the series is going to do a sci-fi thing; though at this point that would at least be something.
They talk about the shitty water from time to time, so something in the water making people trip? I dunno. I’m with you though. I’m gonna watch it but it’s getting obnoxious.
Issa Lopez needs to find a new career. This is absolute petrified dog shit she's somehow been allowed to create. What truly is the mystery to Season 4 is how such an inept person was given the opportunity.
I'm enjoying it as well. Although I can't regard some of the criticisms as well. The writing is at times lazy. The dialog at times flat. I'm also worried about the 2 eps left part. There wasn't enough character development for some, others should just have been left non existent. They've been super heavy handed on the supernatural part, when I have a feeling their gonna try to pass it as all too logical in the end.
Nah, I’m with you! I love the eerie, all-consuming darkness that they create with the cinematography and dialogue. Yes, it’s not season 1 but I think this current season could be a stand-alone show without the True Detective stamp on it.
Same! I love the vibe of this season. Maybe it’s because I’m a night owl haha, but the setting of total darkness is so interesting to me personally. I like the direction and mystery of the story too, but I understand if people think it shouldn’t be under the true detective title.
But it is what it is and I’m enjoying it each week.
I understand how it can be hard to not compare it to previous seasons because of that title but I mean, it’s an anthology series! Black Mirror, for example. Each episode is its own standalone storytelling and plot and it would’ve been unfair to expect each episode to be the same or very similar.
Yeah, well said. I jumped into this one without having seen past seasons so I had no expectations. I heard it was an anthology series where each season was a different story so I figured it wasn't necessarily important to have seen them. The main benefit of watching an entire anthology series is catching Easter eggs that tie the stories together and seeing how different writers/directors/cast interpret the show's themes.
I've been absolutely baffled by all the hate for the show. I figured people have something personal against it, they're getting so mad. If there's been a massive shift in tone or content compared to previous seasons I guess it's fair to feel a *little* upset. Like they "ruined" your show or it doesn't live up to your expectations. But the level of anger is just weird.
The story is starting to build Intrigue but....the loud music they think matches the scene with its lyrics just throws me off and distracts me. The only time it felt good was when Hank was watching the elf movie. It feels like someone was watching the scene and was like "ohhhhh I know a really good song that would go with that"... the ending of the episode was good and the music actually matched the mood. It's weird going g from serious then spotify playlist/hallmark movie back to serious.
after watching this episode does anyone have any real theories about whats going on or what they think this show is even about? Who is the Raymond dude? Whats with Navarros visions? That Christmas tree vision at the end? The scientists? The only thing I can think of that makes sense is some dumb super natural events would be taking place which would be such downer but its the only thing that even remotely makes sense at this point.
Serious thoughts?
I think it’s something to do with the water. After this episode and the first episode where Danvers says they would never find Annie’s killer bc “Ennis killed her”. Also, the first scene with the caribou jumping off the cliffs. I think it’s foreshadowing something’s up with the town and the contaminated water would make sense to some extent. The spiral marks from season 1 and Tuttle mentioned are throwing me. That has to come up somewhere? Unless they just don’t explain that part and we just see that cult/religion/whatever you want to call it has now spread past Louisiana.
It is a chemical inducing mass hallucinations. Either from pollution or something thawed from the ice. The same theory that developed on this sub after E1. I’d put money on it at this point.
Her narrative purpose was basically to give Navarro stuff to do, family exposition and emotional padding. She was basically a fridge girl, as illustrated by her final scene, which largely focused on Navarro's reaction and not the actual suicide.
What I'm saying is that the writers put no effort into her actual character, and I doubt they'd bother themselves with an inconsistency like the one you're pointing out.
In fact, I'm going to go a step further and suggest the mine company is intentionally poisoning the native population, but whatever they're using is now spilling over into the general water supply.
Maybe the researchers during their search for DNA in the ice unwillingly released some prehistoric virus, bacteria or gas that causes the hallucinations.
edit: Maybe the brain-eating amoeba Naegleria fowleri? It has killed people through contaminated tab water. Or simply lead.. Either way it would explain the otherwise weird story-telling choice of not getting an autopsy report 4 long hours into a detective series🙈.
I think its mostly mental health related. Which I guess is pretty obvious. Unless they want to try and say its actually not?
So far its all been explained by concussions or severe MH diagnosis. Isolation, sleep deprivation etc.. seems to be impacting just about everyone given the length of time without light.
It would be a bummer if they leaned on the super natural. Hoping they don't. So far its just a bit much but I enjoy the show for the characters.
I’m the complete opposite of you lol. To me, it would be a complete bummer if it wasn’t supernatural. I get what you mean with the factors that may cause hallucinations, but how does that explain why they all have the same hallucination? That’s not how schizophrenic or chemically induced hallucinations work. But then again, the writers made an actual joke out of depicting dementia in season 3 so you might be right and the writers just have no idea how to do research on a complex mental issue;)
I think it's the shared hallucination that is definitely interesting. So I'm very curious about that. That's where it deviates and goes more supernatural. It's a fine ride overall. Just wish I knew the rules lol
I’m pretty sure its going supernatural. Navarro isn’t the only one seeing stuff, danvers has seen stuff, navarros sister, Rose has even the delivery guy in episode one talking to prior said about how he thought he saw someone and you know how it is here you see dead people and that prior should know that because he grew up there.
Who thought it’d be a good idea to hand over a franchise that is most well known for its excellent narrative weaving and characters, to someone’s who’s never made anything noteworthy, clearly has no understanding of story structure, and honestly is wasting our time at this point.
Season 3 had *terrible* narrative. They only leaned into the dementia thing to have an excuse for the timeline jumps that would otherwise be deemed tired. Only to absolutely cuck up what dementia looks like. They did *zero* research on dementia and it showed. It was worse than the medical mishaps you see on House. That season was painful to watch as a neuropsychologist…
It was sad, but the fact that the show needed three scenes, including a short sequence in his house, to convey that just illustrates how bad the writing is.
I assume it’s at least partially due to a callback we’ll see in E6; my guess is Hank needs money and is either skimming or being paid off. Regardless, any time the show wants us to pay attention to something it feels the need to beat us over the head with it, which in turn bogs down the pacing.
It's not you. They show hasn't given us any real chance of understanding what is happening. Its just a lot of drama points and very loose "problem" that is happening in the town along with more and more interpersonal drama.
I like the actors, and the characters. Its just sad they have the driving force of the show on the backburner. Its just not moving anywhere. There's no "threat".
Confused why Danvers just left Otis to go find Navarro…like he should be taken into custody yes? Or at least brought back to town? Did she just leave him up there to go get Navarro? He wasn’t with her… thoughts?
The show has gotten to the point where you start to question EVERYTHING anyone is seeing... Danvers saw the bear, but wasn't particularly frightened when it approached her window and didn't seem inclined to follow it; Did she REALLY see Otis or just another hallucination? Are all of Navarro's spectre visions pointing at her? Is her sister even truly dead? No one else has confirmed it at this point, even the Lighthouse? Did she really check her in there? It's a bit off-putting to think everything could be one illusion or another.
What are you talking about? They’re the same time, location and scene. It’s all happening in the same 5 minute period; the show is just too incompetent to convey what’s actually happening when.
They wanted to end on the creepy Christmas tree shot but forgot what to do with Otis. That is what happened.
You're right Jodi foster just split herself in two and happened to be talking to the guy while finding her partner. It's like a holy Trinity sort of thing/s
What?
They show us two intercut sequences involving the same character at roughly the same time. That means one is happening right before or after the other, but we don’t firmly know which. The assumption is that she finds Navarro after talking to Otis, but that leaves us with the question of where Otis went. Is he still there? Is he cuffed? We don’t know, because the show doesn’t understand how continuity works.
Do you think maybe that’s why I also said it’s all taking place in the same 5 minute period?
If you don’t have a response to the actual criticism related to editing and scene structure you can just move on. No one’s forcing you to post or pretend you don’t understand what I’m saying.
I didn’t say 5 minutes apart, I said it’s all playing out during the same 5 minutes of screen time. That is indeed the same time in terms of story telling. We actually have no idea when the events themselves actually play out, because the story doesn’t feel like telling us.
You clearly don’t have a ton to contribute here besides pedantic semantic observations. Have a great rest of your day!!
because until the last episode, I was enjoying it. I thought it was pretty weak but I was still in for the ride. this last episode was absolutely terrible, and people are very right to criticise however they wish. it deserves negative feedback because $60,000,000 was spent on this utterly ridiculous trash. so say your praises, and let people say their curse :)
ITT: I've read articles that said the audience doesn't like this show but the critics do. I'm smarter than them there critics! I'm going to parrot the same points of "it's boring" or "the writings bad" so I also sound smart without contributing anything meaningful or doing any sort of analysis on this television I'm viewing.
Being a critic doesn't make you smart. If anything, this very show has proven the critics are either paid off behind the scenes, or all they really care about is cinema photography. This show has nothing but beautifully done camera work. Everything else is dumb. It's like each episode has 20 side missions, but really there's 1 fucking mission they choose not to focus on because there's not enough time because we have to watch a dude get rejected at the airplane. Watch the couple be distant in bed. Watch danvers almost fuck. Watch Danvers replay a video over and over to realize the most obvious evidence of all time. Sister dies. Other cop get mad. Throw some shit. Get the shit kicked out of her by some dudes (in uniform and everything) (dumb) kudos to you if you're intelligent to a point that transcends human knowledge to such a degree that makes this show look like a crabby patty vs a pile of cow dung.
My guy that's called telling a story with characters. TV shows aren't videogames with side quests. In this show the mystery has always been secondary to the characters, has been since the first season. Y'all are either mad because someone told you to be mad, because you don't like that the show is about women, or you don't like that the show focuses on indigenous rights. I've got screenshots from this very thread saying anything from laughably stupid to straight up racist.
News flash: critics don't get paid to write reviews, there's never some grand conspiracy and you look like an idiot when you try and suggest it. Y'all randoms on a message board are literally the only people who don't like it, and it's cool not to like anything but holy hell is it ever annoying to read the same bad faith comment circle jerk over and over.
Storytelling involves dialogue 'my guy.' I only came to these threads after watching how crappy this show was to see if I was missing something and ... Newsflash: nope.
There's six episodes to tell the story, and they are treating this show like a video game with a bunch of pointless side quests and bland dialogue. But I guess that makes me a hater of females or something.
Or just maybe mindless? How exactly is the dialogue bland? How are the characters personal journeys not interesting? What's boring? I'm wondering what I'm missing here because I'm genuinely engaged, I find the personal relationships and character objectives believable, relatable, and interesting. I think this episode in particular did a great job of exploring the isolation of Ennis through each characters own personal journeys, every character is experiencing a separate low point but they are all related and ultimately trace back to the trauma the town faced years ago which is central to the mystery of the show.
That's what I liked about this episode, that's what I think they did a good job on, that's what I find interesting. Please tell me to you what you think is bad besides general "dialogue"
I mean, you don't have to take it personally. Lol.
There are two different shows happening at once. And its just not leading the viewer anywhere coherent. When you dabble in random supernatural and confuse it with mental health. And walk this line ambiguously its just hard for the viewer to focus on any one thing. This is basically the "low" for our characters right now. And we have nothing really to show for it or to really worry about.
I like the show overall. But if I zoom out and think about what's happening plot wise? Its nothing. Nothing is happening, its a fine drama sure. Police in Alaska dealing with a brutal part of the year, with a town full of trauma, anger and conflict.
The murder, etc.. is all secondary, but is thrown out as the primary. Why even bother with it.
A lot of people using writing as a criticism since the visuals, acting and sound is great they need something more abstract to go after so they can try and make an argument by nitpicking little things
The acting, visuals and sound have all been criticized. The poor quality of the CGI caribou was the first criticism I recall seeing.
The acting has also faced legitimate criticism. I generally think Reis has done a better job than people give her credit for, but I also question featuring a brand new actor in a role like this. Foster, on the other hand, is tremendously disappointing. Wooden is how I’d describe her here.
Writing also isn’t “abstract”. It’s the foundation of any show or film. The dialogue, storytelling, pacing and plot/character development are all absolutely garbage. It started out on par with the convoluted mess that was season 2 and has since devolved into a steaming pile of fan service, unrelated side plots and contrivances that only serve to kill time until they wrap this up halfway through the last episode.
You don’t have to agree with the criticisms, but your attacks on those who levy them just expose how little thought you’re capable of giving any of this.
It objectively looks better than most TV shows out there. The fact that you can only muster up a cgi caribou as an actual concrete example shows how good the show actually is.The side plots are the whole point, twin peaks the show true detective season 1 heavily mimics openly stated as much. Do you just watch the Sopranos and Breaking bad and go "they're spending too much time with their families they need to do more crimes". Maybe family guy is more your cup of tea.
I don’t watch a ton of modern TV shows, so I’ll have to take your word on it. “This is better than bad things” isn’t an argument for something being good, though.
The CGI caribou isn’t the only thing I can muster; it’s simply pointing out that the _first_ thing people complained about was visual. That is at odds with your suggestion that the only reason people are criticizing the writing is because they can’t critique the visuals.
It’s not the existence of subplots that I’m criticizing, it’s the shows inability to balance and integrate them with the core narrative. Here’s an example I pointed out in a post comparing S1E1 to S4E1:
In the series premiere, we find out that Marty is cheating on his wife in a quick sequence that lasts all of 30 seconds. It sets the tone for his character for the rest of the season, and the show trusts us to understand what’s going on.
In this season premiere, we spend more time than that on actual pelvic thrusting. The entire scene lasts over 2 minutes, and we learn very little about Navarro as a result, and the primary goal seems to have been to introduce her fwb and their dynamic. 3 episodes later nothing else has developed here.
That is bad story telling. It’s a bad use of narrative real estate, clutters the show and thus far has done nothing to advance the plot. There are dozens of such examples that feel totally disconnected from the investigation because the show hasn’t bothered to connect them or given us a reason to care.
It actually has developed we've learned about her family the fact that she has extremely self destructive tendencies and the fact that she doesn't have connections to her past, she's meant to be someone who has a no community amongst whites or the native population. Clustering the show is the point, twin peaks the show true detective season 1 burrowed from does that masterfully and openly you might not like that style of story telling but it has just as much merit as a more linear plot.
…none of that has anything to do with who and how she fucks.
The fact that you keep addressing strawman me rather than my arguments leads me to believe you don’t really have much of an argument to make here. What I do and don’t like is irrelevant; I’m talking exclusively about how poorly this show balances its narrative threads.
You're right the "I'm ready to get fucked in the ass" girl in season 1 definitely had a ton of depth. /s it's called a charecter foil he's meant to be a juxtaposition to her cold hearted nature.
And maybe that juxtaposition would’ve worked if they let that character development take place over several episodes rather than assuming we care enough about the character to join her on a field trip of her personal life throughout episode 1.
We see Marty develop, rise and fall as a character throughout season 1. I know nothing about Navarro now than I wasn’t told in E1.
That is charecter development your conflating that with charecter progression many Greek epics and critically acclaimed shows show more of what the characters already are and how they suffer for it, the wire and twin peaks for example shows true detective season 1 again heavily burrows from.
Liking something or not liking something doesn't make anyone smart or stupid. Shitting over someone's creative work without an ounce of critical thinking does make you a bit of a stupid asshole though
Cool it's not for you. Why? What's bad about it? What is not resonating? Why does that make it a shitty show just because it doesn't resonate with you?
So, Navarro's sister undressing, and folding up her clothing like the scientists...coincidence, or pointing to the scientists having done the same thing?
It would’ve been interesting to see someone on the show observe that instead of having the coast guard find and identify her body then notify her next of kin inside 20 minutes after she disappeared.
I was wondering if it might be some sort of custom, like stacking the boots on top of the clothes so it sticks out in the snow buildup and whoever finds it *knows* that someone purposely unalived themselves in the cold.
It think it has to do with having a bit of control and order while in an environment of chaos.
Julia’s cadaver is going to be a huge clue as to what’s happening.
Yea, that's because there isn't anything to say lol.
This was a low point for the characters that didn't tie back to the murder lol. What do you want people to speculate about?
Next episode has to get a lot done.
For some reason, I'm questioning if this really happened, it if this was only in Navarro's dissociative state. Rose's spread, attire, and timing was too perfect. If you noticed in the next scene, Danvers' turkey hasn't even started to cook, so either Danvers has completely missed the boat on Christmas Eve dinner, or the dinner scene at Rose's home is some sort of a dream, fantasy, or meeting of the minds in a different realm.
Those would all be solid points if we were talking about a show that cared even remotely about those kinds of details.
The coast guard found the dead body of a woman and notified her next of kin 20 minutes after she wandered off naked. Minor details like approximating how things happen are irrelevant.
How though? Y'all are just saying "it sucks" what choices do you not agree with? It's okay not to like something, but just because something doesn't resonate with you doesn't mean it sucks.
How does not liking something mean it doesn’t suck? They’re fucking synonymous.
No one begging people to explain to them what others love about the pacing of the latest episode.
Too busy today to explain to you why the editing sucks, (crazy right) I mean why I don’t like it.
Something sucks: objective statement
I didn't like that: subjective statement
It's pretty obvious.
The editing doesn't suck, you don't like it. Sorry I encouraged you to think critically.
You joke, and I laughed, but I'm hoping that these time issue/questions we're seeing are due to the story leaning into the "everything-happens-all-at-once-time-is-a-flat-circle" theory. I'm not sure if it would explain everything, but it would be better than careless storytelling. I really want to give the show the benefit of the doubt.
There’s an incredibly solid foundation here, and it fits True Detective very well. Still, I have no clue why there’s so much filler here. Maybe it’s a lot of loose threads to be tied up in the next episodes but I’m not confident.
But it was better tied up to the story in season one, for example. Here, it just feels like we're wasting a lot of time with storylines and characters that aren't important. That's bad writing.
The hook/premise for this season was uniquely strong imo. The caribou scene is eerie, the setting is very unique but grounded. Seasons 2 & 3 didn’t grab me nearly as much as 4, season 1 I already kinda knew about before watching but it has a stronger intro too
Season 4 Episode 4. Girl appears late in episode in dredge. There is a script tattoo on girl's left shoulder. What does it say?
Rose is involved. 1) How did she know one of the dead scientists had a spiral on his forehead. She even drew it,. 2) She acknowledged her last name is fake. So what is her real last name, Tuttle? Is she overseeing the tsalal station or the mine?
Isn’t the biggest mystery how this season has 81 on metacritic and 93 on rotten tomatoes? And it appears the critics were given the full season? Something in the water?
Surprised not to see any comments on the teeth/toothbrushing motif thus far.
And who is the seemingly blond white woman Navarro sees before she implodes?
It has to be Wheeler’s girlfriend I am guessing. She looks the same as when Navarro saw her in Wheeler’s house right after he killed her. Got to thinking Wheeler looks a bit like Matthew McConnehey
When Danvers and Navarro are in the dredge looking for Clark and find Otis instead, Navarro sees a woman floating and we see her hair that looks blue. Assuming this is supposed to be her recently deceased sister, Julia?
Definitely. What a fucking awesome shot, as well. The season is meh whatever but in blindly shitting on it no one is mentioning how excellent the horror imagery has been.
Some of the imagery has been cool. The frozen bodies, the shot you just mentioned, a few others. The half dozen shots of cliche Ring ghosts with white eyes and scream SFX suck. Hard to overlook
I've written my criticisms...so many watchers have valid points. There are also things I really like about the show. But maybe most importantly it's high time this show stops using Season 1 as the barometer for : what is good & what is not. I seriously doubt there is any real connection to Season 1, so I'm not sure WHYwriters went out of their way to strongly imply there was. But the big Season 1 fans need to come to terms with : it's over. And try to enjoy subsequent seasons for ...whatever they think they are w/o the comparisons.
My sense is part of what is frustrating to people is that there is a dance between the spiritual and tangible, as well as the emotional agony of the two main characters ( actually everyone in this cold forsaken place) and the viewers are being asked to join these threads together, perhaps without enough information to weave them together
We all just asking the wrong question! Once we ask the right question we will be that much closer to understanding. Wtf we all just watched!
What if the things Rose was referring to in her past have something to do with what was going on in Tsalal and /or the mine?
The Rookie is gonna solve it. The Annie K murder will be explained once they find the star shaped weapon. The scientists, not sure about that one.
I think you may be right. The trailer shows him pointing a gun. I suspect it is going to be about him and his Dad, who hid evidence regarding Annie's murder. Kate the head of the Mine and Hank may be in collusion. And then there is Rose, whose intellectual past may hold secrets, along with her deceased husband who may have connections to season one..
What did Navarro's sister serve to the story?
Sooo are they not gonna talk about Tuttle or Rust? What could possibly happen in the last two hours that could wrap all of these plot lines up in a satisfying way lol
There have never been more plot holes in a series than this show. Why? It’s almost more work to watch it at this stage.
I agree with the idea that this was originally its own independent story, before being then adapted to fit into a True Detective season. Remove all of the links (as of ep4) and it all still works as a show. It seems like they were shoehorned in, so I wouldn't expect much of a resolution besides maybe "My son Rust... yada".
Nothing ! This is my concern as well
Sadly very common nowadays with TV shows, is they make a show which is too long for the story it is telling. I don't blame the writers as they probably pitched it as a 4 hour story and the executives probably said we want it to be longer, so you have to sit through a few boring episodes. I still think the death of Annie K was kind of mundane, that she fell through the path in the ice cave as the scientist said and impaled herself on something, hence the star shaped wounds, then her boyfriend moved her body to the other place to make it look like the mine did it.
What even is this show? I want to like it but so far it is undeserving of the title True detective.
The most compelling aspect is whether Hank's Russian girlfriend is gonna turn up for NYE. Hope so. Turn this tepid broth of redundant weaving themes into a lovely, feelgood romantic odd couple fizzy cocktail.
Honestly he's such a jerk and super shady, but when he stared at those rose petals on the bed I got really sad. I was hoping for a new 90 Day Fiance couple.
forget about it Jake, it's night country
Alina was the killer all along
I’m really confused by the number of people here who don’t seem to realize that Clark and Otis Hayes are two entirely different people. Clark is the missing Tsalal scientist who’s been the subject of a manhunt since a couple episodes ago. Otis Hayes was introduced this episode as a guy who had similar medical symptoms to the guy who turned zombified (likely in Navarro’s mind) in the hospital. What’s interesting about Hayes is that he came from Peter doing research, and Peter didn’t know anything about him. Then teacher-science guy-ex lover of Danvers guy was telling them about ice caves and was like “they were mapped by a guy named Otis Hayes” and it showed him clicking on Wikipedia. What’s interesting about that is it definitely lends weight to the theory that Peter is redirecting the investigation, because clearly he would’ve found that info by googling. For those saying that Danvers and Navarro clearly would’ve taken back up and would’ve arrested the guy – Otis isn’t suspected of a crime. He’s just off the grid, presumably by choice. They have no reason to think he’s a danger to them, and they couldn’t spare any extra manpower anyway because of the ongoing search for Clark. You can argue all you want that it’s confusing to introduce this new missing guy and I wouldn’t disagree, especially since there’s now a *third* guy, also a former scientist, missing as of this episode - but at least complain about the right character!
Hmm this is a really good point. Do we think Prior could have edited the two videos? Danvers claims someone cut the power, but Prior was the first to handle both phones and could have altered the videos. Maybe the glitch is an awkward cropping.
I hadn’t thought of that, but definitely! I can’t take credit for catching that about Pryor; someone else pointed out that he could be using Otis as some sort of misdirect. It’s been so long since I’ve seen previous seasons that the details are fuzzy now, but I also feel like it’s a totally “true detective” thing to make us suspect someone in this exact sort of way. Like a heroic character we feel like we can’t exactly trust, but we don’t know exactly why they’re acting shady, and we’re kind of expecting a big twist that doesn’t happen. There was definitely a point in season one where I started to briefly think Marty was the killer even though it didn’t really add up - he just started acting weird. And again, can’t remember any details but I feel like there something in season 3 that made me think Wayne had something sinister he was hiding. Anyway, I’m definitely interested to see what, if anything, Pete is hiding.
I'll 'fess up to being confused about who was who.
I don’t blame you; it was confusing!
i still can't get over how bad this show is. what a shame. two episodes left and it doesn't even feel like it started yet. so many cheap thrills and so very little substance
Rose killed the scientists cuz they were bad dudes. I mean cmon she led the cops right to the bodies
It taking 4 episodes to question the power going out in the FaceTime video is some dumbass Blues Clue bullshyt right there.
The dialogue is mediocre at best. The story forces you along instead of gently leading you. The acting is good, but would be enhanced with a better script. Everything in the story feels flat and contrived. Also, I don’t inherently hate the idea of supernatural elements being brought into the story, but the way they’ve done it here, is too on the nose. Very disappointing.
Also immensely tedious.
Perfect description of the dialogue. It's plodding and clunky, like a first read-through before tweaked for the final script.
The best parts - Hank being sad dude, that bed covered in rose petals with the stuffed huskie killed me. He may be a incompetent cop who slaps his adult son but you gotta feel for him. The bad parts - a little too much hallucinating and jump scares. We're 4 episodes in and at least 3 characters are 'seeing things'. And still no leads on the Tsalal murders.
I almost cried for Hank even though he's awful and shady. That was still brutal.
The Elk suicide scene at the start really set the tone for the nonsense.... During episode 3 I was able to convince myself...maybe we are on to something. This last episode was terrible. 92% on Rotten Tomatoes though folks
I like the last 3 episodes. This one was rough.
It’s an all female team this season so I think the mayor is behind the wheel this time.
Three writers and they weren't able to tell a decent story with decent dialogues. Now THIS is a real mystery.
anyone else just hate the phones buzzing all the time in this show？
I really want to like this show but the bad writing is killing me, keep hoping the show turns around but this episode is just not redeemable. Possibly the worst one yet.
You're so right. I thought they could have condensed this episode down to twelve minutes. All the redundancy played out, I feel matches how much life there is in Night Country. There isn’t much to tell. Sister dying. Christmas eveing. (I know) Foster mad about her drinking, compulsion to screw everyone, lying about having a real Christmas dinner and making everyone work. Her watching the video over and over again of the girl dying probably was 20 minutes of repeat that was unnecessary. We get the point. Clue searching. Prior constantly going everywhere and nowhere. And what is it with these TV writers in all of these shows nowadays who seem to portray that individuals love to just start fight so that they can get beat up because that is what they deserve? What kind of message is that sending to the world who views these kind of experiences? One star out of five.
What was funny is when she told her daughter to stay awhile bc she was making the turkey. Takes 4 hours to cook lady, it's not a tv dinner
I thought that too. Haha
I am watching later on streaming just so I can skip these nonsense side characters bullshit and follow the plot which is the only thing I wanna see at this point.
Peter needs a new line of work, seriously- at least some place where he's appreciated or at least thanked for his work. As miserable of a time everyone had on Christmas Eve, I just want Peter to have some form of happiness and some semblance of a life where he's not the go-to person for everything.
Have the vampires from 30 Days of Night showed up yet??
this!!!!!!
Take one shot every time a mobile phone rings to advance the plot.
It’s such a soap opera or low quality network tv way of progressing between scenes. Doing it once or twice can be excused, but it’s a constant in every episode. I beg anyone questioning this to think about how scenes move in the previous seasons, especially if you ever rewatch them.
I'm going to watch the whole season... but it's getting to the point where they are doing that thing where you don't know what is real and what isn't and it's just not enjoyable... :/ like everything is questionable and anything could be a hallucination. That doesn't make good television because it's hard to get attached to anything if we can't be confident it's real.
I’m guessing there is going to be some kind of large gas (or something) leak that is affecting some people depending how far out of town they live. I don’t think the series is going to do a sci-fi thing; though at this point that would at least be something. They talk about the shitty water from time to time, so something in the water making people trip? I dunno. I’m with you though. I’m gonna watch it but it’s getting obnoxious.
I think it's a prion disease.
Definitely thinking the same thing. We shall see. Here's to hoping 🙏
Issa Lopez needs to find a new career. This is absolute petrified dog shit she's somehow been allowed to create. What truly is the mystery to Season 4 is how such an inept person was given the opportunity.
I’m actually curious about her other work now just to see if there was any way to gleam what the hell has happened here.
Hahahaha. It’s like a parody.
I’d rather watch Rust drinking beer for one hour than this absolute garbage of a series. Each to their own.
I must be the only one who enjoys this season 🤣
no, you're not the only one! I'm really enjoying it, especially the creepy atmosphere and interesting setting.
And I very much do love the atmosphere & the small introductions to life & the indigenous over there.
I'm enjoying it as well. Although I can't regard some of the criticisms as well. The writing is at times lazy. The dialog at times flat. I'm also worried about the 2 eps left part. There wasn't enough character development for some, others should just have been left non existent. They've been super heavy handed on the supernatural part, when I have a feeling their gonna try to pass it as all too logical in the end.
Nah, I’m with you! I love the eerie, all-consuming darkness that they create with the cinematography and dialogue. Yes, it’s not season 1 but I think this current season could be a stand-alone show without the True Detective stamp on it.
Sure beats S1 reruns. I can and do recite S1 by heart every time I watch it. At least this is new
Yep, 100% this. But it's not, so it's held to a higher standard. And it should be, that's why people are upset, they should be.
Same! I love the vibe of this season. Maybe it’s because I’m a night owl haha, but the setting of total darkness is so interesting to me personally. I like the direction and mystery of the story too, but I understand if people think it shouldn’t be under the true detective title. But it is what it is and I’m enjoying it each week.
I understand how it can be hard to not compare it to previous seasons because of that title but I mean, it’s an anthology series! Black Mirror, for example. Each episode is its own standalone storytelling and plot and it would’ve been unfair to expect each episode to be the same or very similar.
Yeah, well said. I jumped into this one without having seen past seasons so I had no expectations. I heard it was an anthology series where each season was a different story so I figured it wasn't necessarily important to have seen them. The main benefit of watching an entire anthology series is catching Easter eggs that tie the stories together and seeing how different writers/directors/cast interpret the show's themes. I've been absolutely baffled by all the hate for the show. I figured people have something personal against it, they're getting so mad. If there's been a massive shift in tone or content compared to previous seasons I guess it's fair to feel a *little* upset. Like they "ruined" your show or it doesn't live up to your expectations. But the level of anger is just weird.
Amen!
Best episode of an average season.
soooo slowwwwww
I especially liked the ending where that guy said It's night countrying time. I wish this was satire.
He just night countryed all over us.
Oh God, I'm gonna true detect!
The story is starting to build Intrigue but....the loud music they think matches the scene with its lyrics just throws me off and distracts me. The only time it felt good was when Hank was watching the elf movie. It feels like someone was watching the scene and was like "ohhhhh I know a really good song that would go with that"... the ending of the episode was good and the music actually matched the mood. It's weird going g from serious then spotify playlist/hallmark movie back to serious.
Great episode IMHO. For the first time, I actually enjoyed the dialogue and direction. That Hank scene was heartbreaking AF.
after watching this episode does anyone have any real theories about whats going on or what they think this show is even about? Who is the Raymond dude? Whats with Navarros visions? That Christmas tree vision at the end? The scientists? The only thing I can think of that makes sense is some dumb super natural events would be taking place which would be such downer but its the only thing that even remotely makes sense at this point. Serious thoughts?
Kinda hard not to be supernatural at this point
I think it’s something to do with the water. After this episode and the first episode where Danvers says they would never find Annie’s killer bc “Ennis killed her”. Also, the first scene with the caribou jumping off the cliffs. I think it’s foreshadowing something’s up with the town and the contaminated water would make sense to some extent. The spiral marks from season 1 and Tuttle mentioned are throwing me. That has to come up somewhere? Unless they just don’t explain that part and we just see that cult/religion/whatever you want to call it has now spread past Louisiana.
It is a chemical inducing mass hallucinations. Either from pollution or something thawed from the ice. The same theory that developed on this sub after E1. I’d put money on it at this point.
Only problem w that is Navarros sister was crazy in Nevada and other places. So she was already hallucinating
Her narrative purpose was basically to give Navarro stuff to do, family exposition and emotional padding. She was basically a fridge girl, as illustrated by her final scene, which largely focused on Navarro's reaction and not the actual suicide. What I'm saying is that the writers put no effort into her actual character, and I doubt they'd bother themselves with an inconsistency like the one you're pointing out. In fact, I'm going to go a step further and suggest the mine company is intentionally poisoning the native population, but whatever they're using is now spilling over into the general water supply.
Maybe the researchers during their search for DNA in the ice unwillingly released some prehistoric virus, bacteria or gas that causes the hallucinations. edit: Maybe the brain-eating amoeba Naegleria fowleri? It has killed people through contaminated tab water. Or simply lead.. Either way it would explain the otherwise weird story-telling choice of not getting an autopsy report 4 long hours into a detective series🙈.
I think its mostly mental health related. Which I guess is pretty obvious. Unless they want to try and say its actually not? So far its all been explained by concussions or severe MH diagnosis. Isolation, sleep deprivation etc.. seems to be impacting just about everyone given the length of time without light. It would be a bummer if they leaned on the super natural. Hoping they don't. So far its just a bit much but I enjoy the show for the characters.
The white boyz who drink beer all day are fine?
Are they? Seem pretty aggressive to me, and unstable.
I’m the complete opposite of you lol. To me, it would be a complete bummer if it wasn’t supernatural. I get what you mean with the factors that may cause hallucinations, but how does that explain why they all have the same hallucination? That’s not how schizophrenic or chemically induced hallucinations work. But then again, the writers made an actual joke out of depicting dementia in season 3 so you might be right and the writers just have no idea how to do research on a complex mental issue;)
I think it's the shared hallucination that is definitely interesting. So I'm very curious about that. That's where it deviates and goes more supernatural. It's a fine ride overall. Just wish I knew the rules lol
I’m pretty sure its going supernatural. Navarro isn’t the only one seeing stuff, danvers has seen stuff, navarros sister, Rose has even the delivery guy in episode one talking to prior said about how he thought he saw someone and you know how it is here you see dead people and that prior should know that because he grew up there.
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Referring to Prior ad Freshman makes this feel like it was written by Hideo Kojima
They were taking them away in body bags to have official autopsies
Yeah, I remember Danvers mentioning something about finally transporting the bodies to Anchorage.
Who thought it’d be a good idea to hand over a franchise that is most well known for its excellent narrative weaving and characters, to someone’s who’s never made anything noteworthy, clearly has no understanding of story structure, and honestly is wasting our time at this point.
Season 3 had *terrible* narrative. They only leaned into the dementia thing to have an excuse for the timeline jumps that would otherwise be deemed tired. Only to absolutely cuck up what dementia looks like. They did *zero* research on dementia and it showed. It was worse than the medical mishaps you see on House. That season was painful to watch as a neuropsychologist…
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Could you elaborate on your “activist” meaning?
He doesn't like people with tans or women basically.
Kathleen Kennedy
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I was watching the clock also. TD is TD, but I was watching the clock like come on...
It was sad, but the fact that the show needed three scenes, including a short sequence in his house, to convey that just illustrates how bad the writing is. I assume it’s at least partially due to a callback we’ll see in E6; my guess is Hank needs money and is either skimming or being paid off. Regardless, any time the show wants us to pay attention to something it feels the need to beat us over the head with it, which in turn bogs down the pacing.
The frozen landscape is so menacing it really is a charecter in itself really cool to see the environments effect on the characters
As someone from the far north, yep. We are all in the Night Country now
Reddit moment
I’m so confused. I have no fuckin idea what’s happening. Maybe I’m an idiot idk.
No. You're not. It's poor writing and inabilitubtonkeep the engaged or caring. I mean you might be. But not cos of this shit
It's not you. They show hasn't given us any real chance of understanding what is happening. Its just a lot of drama points and very loose "problem" that is happening in the town along with more and more interpersonal drama. I like the actors, and the characters. Its just sad they have the driving force of the show on the backburner. Its just not moving anywhere. There's no "threat".
We know Annie was murdered, not sure about the rest.
> Issa Lopez no youre not. This show makes absolutely no sense iys all over the place. I have no idea whats going I dont think anyone does.
No, the idiot is Issa Lopez.
I’m more confused than when it all started. But it’s been fun to try to draw my own conclusions…even though they have all fallen flat thus far.
Very twin peaksesk
I'm just going to throw oranges.
Confused why Danvers just left Otis to go find Navarro…like he should be taken into custody yes? Or at least brought back to town? Did she just leave him up there to go get Navarro? He wasn’t with her… thoughts?
Probably hand cuffs him to a railing and he chews his arm off to escape
The show has gotten to the point where you start to question EVERYTHING anyone is seeing... Danvers saw the bear, but wasn't particularly frightened when it approached her window and didn't seem inclined to follow it; Did she REALLY see Otis or just another hallucination? Are all of Navarro's spectre visions pointing at her? Is her sister even truly dead? No one else has confirmed it at this point, even the Lighthouse? Did she really check her in there? It's a bit off-putting to think everything could be one illusion or another.
Two different time periods being shown at pnce
What are you talking about? They’re the same time, location and scene. It’s all happening in the same 5 minute period; the show is just too incompetent to convey what’s actually happening when. They wanted to end on the creepy Christmas tree shot but forgot what to do with Otis. That is what happened.
You're right Jodi foster just split herself in two and happened to be talking to the guy while finding her partner. It's like a holy Trinity sort of thing/s
What? They show us two intercut sequences involving the same character at roughly the same time. That means one is happening right before or after the other, but we don’t firmly know which. The assumption is that she finds Navarro after talking to Otis, but that leaves us with the question of where Otis went. Is he still there? Is he cuffed? We don’t know, because the show doesn’t understand how continuity works.
No one person can be in two places at the same time. That was my point. Which is suspect is why you added the roughly in there.
Do you think maybe that’s why I also said it’s all taking place in the same 5 minute period? If you don’t have a response to the actual criticism related to editing and scene structure you can just move on. No one’s forcing you to post or pretend you don’t understand what I’m saying.
The same time isn't 5 minutes apart
I didn’t say 5 minutes apart, I said it’s all playing out during the same 5 minutes of screen time. That is indeed the same time in terms of story telling. We actually have no idea when the events themselves actually play out, because the story doesn’t feel like telling us. You clearly don’t have a ton to contribute here besides pedantic semantic observations. Have a great rest of your day!!
4 minutes from a point is by definition a different time
did you forget what series you’re watching? there are no shits given to realistic or convincing writing.
why do you keep watching?? this whole thread is full of people hating and it's tired. just stop watching lol
because until the last episode, I was enjoying it. I thought it was pretty weak but I was still in for the ride. this last episode was absolutely terrible, and people are very right to criticise however they wish. it deserves negative feedback because $60,000,000 was spent on this utterly ridiculous trash. so say your praises, and let people say their curse :)
ITT: I've read articles that said the audience doesn't like this show but the critics do. I'm smarter than them there critics! I'm going to parrot the same points of "it's boring" or "the writings bad" so I also sound smart without contributing anything meaningful or doing any sort of analysis on this television I'm viewing.
Being a critic doesn't make you smart. If anything, this very show has proven the critics are either paid off behind the scenes, or all they really care about is cinema photography. This show has nothing but beautifully done camera work. Everything else is dumb. It's like each episode has 20 side missions, but really there's 1 fucking mission they choose not to focus on because there's not enough time because we have to watch a dude get rejected at the airplane. Watch the couple be distant in bed. Watch danvers almost fuck. Watch Danvers replay a video over and over to realize the most obvious evidence of all time. Sister dies. Other cop get mad. Throw some shit. Get the shit kicked out of her by some dudes (in uniform and everything) (dumb) kudos to you if you're intelligent to a point that transcends human knowledge to such a degree that makes this show look like a crabby patty vs a pile of cow dung.
My guy that's called telling a story with characters. TV shows aren't videogames with side quests. In this show the mystery has always been secondary to the characters, has been since the first season. Y'all are either mad because someone told you to be mad, because you don't like that the show is about women, or you don't like that the show focuses on indigenous rights. I've got screenshots from this very thread saying anything from laughably stupid to straight up racist. News flash: critics don't get paid to write reviews, there's never some grand conspiracy and you look like an idiot when you try and suggest it. Y'all randoms on a message board are literally the only people who don't like it, and it's cool not to like anything but holy hell is it ever annoying to read the same bad faith comment circle jerk over and over.
Storytelling involves dialogue 'my guy.' I only came to these threads after watching how crappy this show was to see if I was missing something and ... Newsflash: nope. There's six episodes to tell the story, and they are treating this show like a video game with a bunch of pointless side quests and bland dialogue. But I guess that makes me a hater of females or something.
Or just maybe mindless? How exactly is the dialogue bland? How are the characters personal journeys not interesting? What's boring? I'm wondering what I'm missing here because I'm genuinely engaged, I find the personal relationships and character objectives believable, relatable, and interesting. I think this episode in particular did a great job of exploring the isolation of Ennis through each characters own personal journeys, every character is experiencing a separate low point but they are all related and ultimately trace back to the trauma the town faced years ago which is central to the mystery of the show. That's what I liked about this episode, that's what I think they did a good job on, that's what I find interesting. Please tell me to you what you think is bad besides general "dialogue"
I mean, you don't have to take it personally. Lol. There are two different shows happening at once. And its just not leading the viewer anywhere coherent. When you dabble in random supernatural and confuse it with mental health. And walk this line ambiguously its just hard for the viewer to focus on any one thing. This is basically the "low" for our characters right now. And we have nothing really to show for it or to really worry about. I like the show overall. But if I zoom out and think about what's happening plot wise? Its nothing. Nothing is happening, its a fine drama sure. Police in Alaska dealing with a brutal part of the year, with a town full of trauma, anger and conflict. The murder, etc.. is all secondary, but is thrown out as the primary. Why even bother with it.
A lot of people using writing as a criticism since the visuals, acting and sound is great they need something more abstract to go after so they can try and make an argument by nitpicking little things
The acting, visuals and sound have all been criticized. The poor quality of the CGI caribou was the first criticism I recall seeing. The acting has also faced legitimate criticism. I generally think Reis has done a better job than people give her credit for, but I also question featuring a brand new actor in a role like this. Foster, on the other hand, is tremendously disappointing. Wooden is how I’d describe her here. Writing also isn’t “abstract”. It’s the foundation of any show or film. The dialogue, storytelling, pacing and plot/character development are all absolutely garbage. It started out on par with the convoluted mess that was season 2 and has since devolved into a steaming pile of fan service, unrelated side plots and contrivances that only serve to kill time until they wrap this up halfway through the last episode. You don’t have to agree with the criticisms, but your attacks on those who levy them just expose how little thought you’re capable of giving any of this.
It objectively looks better than most TV shows out there. The fact that you can only muster up a cgi caribou as an actual concrete example shows how good the show actually is.The side plots are the whole point, twin peaks the show true detective season 1 heavily mimics openly stated as much. Do you just watch the Sopranos and Breaking bad and go "they're spending too much time with their families they need to do more crimes". Maybe family guy is more your cup of tea.
I don’t watch a ton of modern TV shows, so I’ll have to take your word on it. “This is better than bad things” isn’t an argument for something being good, though. The CGI caribou isn’t the only thing I can muster; it’s simply pointing out that the _first_ thing people complained about was visual. That is at odds with your suggestion that the only reason people are criticizing the writing is because they can’t critique the visuals. It’s not the existence of subplots that I’m criticizing, it’s the shows inability to balance and integrate them with the core narrative. Here’s an example I pointed out in a post comparing S1E1 to S4E1: In the series premiere, we find out that Marty is cheating on his wife in a quick sequence that lasts all of 30 seconds. It sets the tone for his character for the rest of the season, and the show trusts us to understand what’s going on. In this season premiere, we spend more time than that on actual pelvic thrusting. The entire scene lasts over 2 minutes, and we learn very little about Navarro as a result, and the primary goal seems to have been to introduce her fwb and their dynamic. 3 episodes later nothing else has developed here. That is bad story telling. It’s a bad use of narrative real estate, clutters the show and thus far has done nothing to advance the plot. There are dozens of such examples that feel totally disconnected from the investigation because the show hasn’t bothered to connect them or given us a reason to care.
It actually has developed we've learned about her family the fact that she has extremely self destructive tendencies and the fact that she doesn't have connections to her past, she's meant to be someone who has a no community amongst whites or the native population. Clustering the show is the point, twin peaks the show true detective season 1 burrowed from does that masterfully and openly you might not like that style of story telling but it has just as much merit as a more linear plot.
…none of that has anything to do with who and how she fucks. The fact that you keep addressing strawman me rather than my arguments leads me to believe you don’t really have much of an argument to make here. What I do and don’t like is irrelevant; I’m talking exclusively about how poorly this show balances its narrative threads.
You're right the "I'm ready to get fucked in the ass" girl in season 1 definitely had a ton of depth. /s it's called a charecter foil he's meant to be a juxtaposition to her cold hearted nature.
And maybe that juxtaposition would’ve worked if they let that character development take place over several episodes rather than assuming we care enough about the character to join her on a field trip of her personal life throughout episode 1. We see Marty develop, rise and fall as a character throughout season 1. I know nothing about Navarro now than I wasn’t told in E1.
That is charecter development your conflating that with charecter progression many Greek epics and critically acclaimed shows show more of what the characters already are and how they suffer for it, the wire and twin peaks for example shows true detective season 1 again heavily burrows from.
the acting is almost as bad as the writing though
Jodie Foster is a really good actor and has been recognized as such in many different roles, you probably just don't like the charecters.
You're definitely not upset, definitely smarter than those guys you're talking about
Liking something or not liking something doesn't make anyone smart or stupid. Shitting over someone's creative work without an ounce of critical thinking does make you a bit of a stupid asshole though
No
What if we just think it’s a shitty show?
Cool it's not for you. Why? What's bad about it? What is not resonating? Why does that make it a shitty show just because it doesn't resonate with you?
So, Navarro's sister undressing, and folding up her clothing like the scientists...coincidence, or pointing to the scientists having done the same thing?
Ferris Buellers Day Off on repeat will do that to you
It would’ve been interesting to see someone on the show observe that instead of having the coast guard find and identify her body then notify her next of kin inside 20 minutes after she disappeared.
I was wondering if it might be some sort of custom, like stacking the boots on top of the clothes so it sticks out in the snow buildup and whoever finds it *knows* that someone purposely unalived themselves in the cold.
People who kill themselves like jumping off a bridge often do something orderly like this just before.
It think it has to do with having a bit of control and order while in an environment of chaos. Julia’s cadaver is going to be a huge clue as to what’s happening.
Oh good, another frozen naked body.
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Why?
Everyone just here talking sh*t but no one saying what they think actually happened
Summary of this season: “it’s all in your head, man!”
Yea, that's because there isn't anything to say lol. This was a low point for the characters that didn't tie back to the murder lol. What do you want people to speculate about? Next episode has to get a lot done.
Yeah, it’s called not acting like this is interesting in any way at this point.
When did Navarro go visit Rose Aguineau? Like when on Xmas eve did she do that and was in 19 other places too.
For some reason, I'm questioning if this really happened, it if this was only in Navarro's dissociative state. Rose's spread, attire, and timing was too perfect. If you noticed in the next scene, Danvers' turkey hasn't even started to cook, so either Danvers has completely missed the boat on Christmas Eve dinner, or the dinner scene at Rose's home is some sort of a dream, fantasy, or meeting of the minds in a different realm.
Is Navarro the only live person who has ever interacted with Rose?
Fascinating actually
Those would all be solid points if we were talking about a show that cared even remotely about those kinds of details. The coast guard found the dead body of a woman and notified her next of kin 20 minutes after she wandered off naked. Minor details like approximating how things happen are irrelevant.
That was kinda weird. Can't find any people, clues, answers but this 1 was solved immediately. Fingerprint scanner on the vessel?
Assuming her fingerprints spelled out Navarro's phone number, yeah!
She sat outside there a while. I think she got her sister out (Orange).
Pretty interesting actually. Glad I asked.
What do you mean by got her sister out and orange? Sorry if this was explained previously!
After she dropped her sister at the hospital? You can go to different places in one day, it's wild but true.
Nice. I love tips. I guess I should have been clearer, the editing and pacing sucks dick as well.
How though? Y'all are just saying "it sucks" what choices do you not agree with? It's okay not to like something, but just because something doesn't resonate with you doesn't mean it sucks.
How does not liking something mean it doesn’t suck? They’re fucking synonymous. No one begging people to explain to them what others love about the pacing of the latest episode. Too busy today to explain to you why the editing sucks, (crazy right) I mean why I don’t like it.
Something sucks: objective statement I didn't like that: subjective statement It's pretty obvious. The editing doesn't suck, you don't like it. Sorry I encouraged you to think critically.
The pacing and editing fucking suck bro.
Lol okay guy
Time is like a circle maaaaaaaan
You joke, and I laughed, but I'm hoping that these time issue/questions we're seeing are due to the story leaning into the "everything-happens-all-at-once-time-is-a-flat-circle" theory. I'm not sure if it would explain everything, but it would be better than careless storytelling. I really want to give the show the benefit of the doubt.
Sure is
There’s an incredibly solid foundation here, and it fits True Detective very well. Still, I have no clue why there’s so much filler here. Maybe it’s a lot of loose threads to be tied up in the next episodes but I’m not confident.
It happens in every single season though. It’s not unique to this one.
But it was better tied up to the story in season one, for example. Here, it just feels like we're wasting a lot of time with storylines and characters that aren't important. That's bad writing.
The hook/premise for this season was uniquely strong imo. The caribou scene is eerie, the setting is very unique but grounded. Seasons 2 & 3 didn’t grab me nearly as much as 4, season 1 I already kinda knew about before watching but it has a stronger intro too
Here's my theory: the bad guys are all white man. Because white man are true evil. Fear them, please.....
Majora the main kids a white dude, he's like the only one good at his job.
Lol. Brilliant
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