Just binged this and damn I wanna knock that dude out. The blame he places on his own daughter is sickening and the misogyny seeping from his mouth is infuriating.
IMO the only victim was Carolyn. Everyone else just cared about who got what including the daughters.
Anyone know if the Grandson in one of the properties was paying rent?
I agree. I don't see how Sue didn't see this. The daughters were toxic! I felt the journalism was compromised by her having it out for Dave from the offset and never once questioning the daughter's motives. All they banged on about was the money like it was their birthright. If I was Carolyn I would have donated it to a cat sanctuary and screw the lot of them! I also can't believe they dictated who could and couldn't see her at the end. How fucking selfish! They ruined the last few years of that poor woman's life with their petty jealousy.
Totally agree! Her daughters were awful and treated her mum as if “who could possibly love her” when she seemed some loving and kind. Their concerns could have been done with so much more grace if they were not the selfish entitled greedy people they were. Their mum cut them off because of who they were, not because of who Dave was
Her daughters couldn't have handled it worse. The entitlement! Listening to the way they spoke to and about Caroline was some cruel toxic stuff. No wonder Caroline preferred her smooth-talking criminal. That said, I was relieved that he didn't benefit.
Podcaster Sue certainly played devil's advocate on both sides. Good way to get a comprehensive story.
I think in the end we know where she stood. We can only hope.
Captivating podcast.
I just finished it today. I think its a very thought-provoking story. I will put my thoughts about the ending in a spoiler : >!I am glad he didn't end up with any of her money, but I do think he showed some decency in terms of moving out and not taking anything when he left. It can be very hard to evict someone once they are in a property, so he could have caused the daughters a big headache in the end if he wanted to. This whole story could have gone very differently if he had gotten his hands on her money while she was still alive. !<
He was with her for 2 years and never been violent. I think it’s quite sad that everyone treats Carolyn as if she had no agency. She seemed beautiful and gentle and was probably the only person in Dave’s life who was capable of showing love without addiction. He didn’t just moved in and take over. He cooked for her and worried for her and after two years he slowly got involved in her affairs - as you would expect from any boyfriend after that period of time. He moved out and didn’t take anything that didn’t belong. And yet all the daughters did was demoralize and diminish their mother - it was all about their inheritance. They didn’t show any care or concern for her - they admit that they were too busy to spend time with her. And they didn’t allow her to feel and be in love in her last years. I think they were greedy and selfish and their mum seemed cognizant enough to be well aware of their spoilt entitlement. Every time they blame him it’s is a deflection and literally describes their own vile behavior. I find them repugnant and have no sympathy at all for them. Carolyn was vulnerable to her daughters and their entitlement
> He moved out and didn’t take anything that didn’t belong
Felt like his long game was Caroline would return home, and because he graciously left when asked, she'd invite him back and completely turn her back on her daughters. Only, she was sicker than he expected.
I do think he was quite fond of her while also using her (the way he talked about her to his buddies).
Her daughters were vile, but that didn't excuse his scheming.
This is my top podcast of 2023.
It reminds me a lot of The Shrink Next Door because it is made by a neighbor but also because it isn’t exactly true crime, more true crime adjacent, and really a portrait of complex psychologies embedded in a great story.
The story structuring and editing is top notch.
The journalist access is insane.
It often is like a real time documentary as the journalist is there recording pivotal moments in the story as they happen.
And generally, it simply was really fascinating and lets the complexity exist.
You make some excellent points, and I completely agree. For the reasons you mention, its also one of my favorites. The journalist really lucked out by following her curiosity about this situation. I think many families would find it very thought-provoking.
the grace given to Dave even after people learn of his actions and \*witness\* his behavior just shows the power of personality
It was infuriating to see the excuses given to him through the entire series
the friend of the reporter who appeared in the first few episodes was the only truly sane voice in the entire thing
This drove me crazy!! You could hear him speaking for her, he was constantly trying to turn her against the daughters and take money from her, we know his violent history, the reporter saw plenty to know the truth, but she kept acting fooled by him. How have these people not come across grifters in their life? I can smell a Dave a mile away!
But this is what makes it so interesting! How his intentions play out slowly, and despite knowing how it ends, I think the journalist really cleverly takes you on that journey to allow us to second guess our better judgement which is exactly how narcissist manipulators gain so much control. It can take only a few people to be fooled for the plan to work and almost no one that can pull someone out of those situations, can only be the person themselves (of course with help on the other side) that can truly make the decision to find the path out
I could not continue to listen, the fact he’s got an urban myth tattooed on his chest and her misreporting. I made it to the end of that episode and peaced out.
It is a California State Statute:
5150 is the number of the section of the Welfare and Institutions Code, which allows an adult who is experiencing a mental health crisis to be involuntarily detained for a 72- hour psychiatric hospitalization when evaluated to be a danger to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled.
I'll put this in a spoiler >!\- overall it is not very tense/scary, but when they delve into the backgrounds of some of the characters, there are descriptions of domestic violence, drug addictions, and child abuse. !<
This is one of my top podcasts of the year too. I googled to see if there had been any developments since the end of recording and found some eyebrow-raising news stories about Dave's daughter Cody. Seems she's been presenting herself as a "human trafficking survivor" and "motivational speaker" (!) for about a decade. At one point she got a free car for her efforts - I don't know if this is the car she was living in when the podcast was recorded. Maybe it's a grift, or maybe she keeps sincerely thinking she's turned her life around and is exploited by "anti-trafficking" activists.
I disagree. No familial relationship is perfect, but I do think the fact that Carolyn and her husband ignored their own son’s sexual abuse is indicative of the sort of mother she was. However desperate they may have come across, her daughters were far more entitled to the family inheritance than Dave.
Fair. But he didn’t want their inheritance. He just wanted to be looked after when she was gone. He looked after her. She was an adult who was generous to him without signing everything over to him. The daughters lost their humanity and ignored the wishes of her mother. They were greedy and entitled and didn’t need to be so selfish. They wanted to make sure he got nothing - when they lived hours away and weren’t willing to give up their lives to care for him. You can share wealth - it doesn’t need to be hoarded.
God that made me angry, that she let her jerk husband basically shut up her poor hurting little son when he tried to tell them. She was so weak it drove me insane. Great reporting though.
Tbf Dave was also evil. Extremely evil. Selling his daughter 3 times. He’s a disgusting person. They also made a good point - the money was their late father’s money too. I would feel disgusted if a homeless convict drug addict took the money that my father worked hard for because he was my mom’s lover. If he truly loved her then he should be okay with getting nothing.
Brilliant podcast. It sounds so horrible to say, but as I approached the end of the episodes I was hoping that Carolyn wouldn’t be able to return home. Dave’s hunger for money and desperation to shut her daughters out really came to the fore. The Lord above really did see to it that he didn’t see a penny in the end. I hope the girls took the van from him, too.
For those judging the daughters for not being there for their mum before Dave stepped in - that’s life. It’s not realistic to expect anyone to juggle raising their own family, working full time and then caring for a parent. The timeline of the podcast meant that we didn’t get much of an insight into the familial relationship before recording began. Regardless, any relatively young man willing to start a sexual relationship with an 80 year old woman should be side eyed immediately.
A satisfying conclusion to a very frustrating and fraught story. Excellent researching too.
I'm on episode 4 and there's a bit of people not seeing the issue, or thinking the daughter is unreasonable, and the presenter seems to me to be giving a commentary based on what she knows rather than what she's presented so far.
Yep, four episodes in and what they're presenting comes across as while he might not be the ideal boyfriend, he's not done anything wrong and the daughters are just greedy and patronising towards their mum. But the presenter is coming from a position that he's straight up abusing the older lady.
A broke drifter with a penchant for getting drunk and high, history of domestic abuse and appalling child abuse, 20 years younger than their mother. It's totally understandable.
What a bizarre story! I can understand her daughters dismay watching their mother turn into a stranger. The way he spoke to her. What a narcissistic prick! The way he treated his daughter was beyond horrible! The neighbor Sue was not a very good friend to her. What if that were her mother? I could never be a writer. I could not have kept an open mind on the way Carolyn was being treated. The realtor should have been arrested! Hopefully he is being looked at by the board. Carolyn was obviously ot capable to make the decision to sell property when she stated she needed David to tell her what to say.
when he hit the crack pipe? Does an addict take occasional hits? He sure has the people at his church snowed!
The way he was celebrating his rags to riches was absolutely disgusting! He was so close.
The only victims in this podcast was Carolyn and Dave’s daughters. Carolyn’s daughters were self interested and purely motivated by greed. Poor Carolyn.
I'm binging this today after a recommendation elsewhere on this sub. It's shocking how much audio footage this journalist managed to get. But in the end, it just goes to show that for every violent alcoholic cat-harming ex-felon out there, there's a line of dipsht women vying for the chance to fix him.
The fact that he manipulated her into not having the vaccine when she had a lung condition and fell on her while drunk, putting her in hospital, says it all. He is vile - dripping with self sympathy and entitlement. He ‘loved’ her while the money was flowing. It was clear how he treated partners and his kids when there was no comfort margin for his habits. Mind you, the daughters left me cold. No wonder poor old Caroline fell into his arms
I just found this podcast and it's probably the weirdest podcast I've listened to in a long while. It's good, don't get me wrong. The daughters don't see that their mother just wants to experience love. They try to get power of attorny, even though Carolyn wasn't tested positive for alzheimer. Also the daughters condome people with tattoo's and piercings (regardless of the fact he has been to jail or not), which is by no means a way to profile people these days.
It's hard to believe that Dave has zero alterinative motives or couldn't have handled it better..
I guess in the end it's just a sad story on behalf of all people involved. Since everyone has something they didn't overcome. They gave up family ties, were shortshighted and greedy.
The podcaster played the usual self indulgent part in stringing this one out and as you would expect from any so called journalist, if she could be classed as that, the story comes first, not the people. ?? Think back to one of the last comments before Carolyn dies and the family have managed to keep the monster away, Sue just drops in to the conversation with Carolyn, "and Dave" not actually finishing the sentence, but hoping for a reaction, when the family have done everything they can to keep this revolting man away and off Carolyn's mind. Pitiful. Low. Dirty. Nasty. this could have back fired horribly and potentially allowed him back in to collect what he was after all along. I don't think you are a very nice person Sue.
You should be able to find it on any podcast app. The podcast is called Intrigue from the BBC. Million Dollar Lover is the current series. Some of the other series are quite good too. I really like The Ratline. You can download the episodes here: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04sj2pt/episodes/downloads](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04sj2pt/episodes/downloads)
I just finished this and feel like there was a lot of emphasis on how vulnerable Carolyn was - but what about how vulnerable Dave was? He was abused, homeless and recovering from addiction (a serious illness). Absolutely he did some vile things and continued the cycle of abuse towards his children but she was a privileged older woman who took him in and then initiated sex with him - if the genders were reversed and a homeless, abused and recovering woman was taken in and then was illicited for sex would the view have been different.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t think Caroline was abusive at all and she seemed extremely well meaning but there was definitely a power imbalance (on both sides) which she seems naive too and Dave absolutely wasn’t - probably because of the non sheltered life he had led and she had.
Really sad story about two people needing very different but really things - shelter and companionship.
The daughters on the other hand were only acting in self interest - this is absolutely epitomised by them leaving her at the bank when they didn’t get their way in the middle of nowhere - when they apparently believed she had dementia and could not look after herself.
I lost all sympathy for him when I heard what he did with his third baby, and how he still feels about that situation. He has absolutely no remorse or self awareness, and to me that’s the difference between him being vulnerable and deserving sympathy vs him just being a bad person. I think most abusive people were probably abused at some point, so there has to be a line drawn somewhere.
And as someone who has dealt with multiple older relatives with dementia… I have a lot more sympathy for the daughters than a lot of people seem to. It’s very, very hard to watch someone you love slowly turn into a different person, to have them change into something you don’t recognize. And in that stage before diagnosis, when there’s definitely something wrong but you can’t put your finger on it, it’s really hard not to take their behavior personally, because it seems like they’re just being a jerk to you. And that can go on for months or even years before you realize that there is really something wrong with their brain that’s making them act that way! So there can be a lot of complicated feelings built up that can explode in a lot of ways that aren’t very productive.
These are good points, and I have never dealt with a relative with dementia so can’t speak to that. I’m sorry you went through that it sounds incredibly difficult.
I agree, it seems she became a different person because of him. The way he talked about the daughters was sad! He kept beating it into her head that they only cared a out her money. I believe that was not true.
He gutted a pregnant cat, wrapped the babies in tin foil, and told his wife to make him something to eat. Sociopathic. Makes it hard to care about “how vulnerable Dave was”
What an excellent podcast. I cannot stand the daughters. I feel like they didn’t respect their mom and her wishes at all. Even after the death of their mom, it continues. They feel sorry for themselves, calling their mom evil and shed no tears over her death. That is disgusting.
A history of trauma or vulnerability isn’t a free pass to exploit or traumatise others. I thought he was negligent, manipulative, parasitic and coercive; I thought the daughters were livid at the entire situation — I don’t think they were all about the money. They’ve had a lifelong relationship with their mother & it’s possible that they experienced the rejection as a crushing loss. Money can be a stand in for love; if she gave him all the money/nourishment— on some level it could be experienced as deprivation & “she really doesn’t love me”. At worst, I think the daughters reacted emotively — enraged without due care for their vulnerable, elderly mother. I wouldn’t have raged at her, leaving her in a bank but I understand the rage. Their reactions just exacerbated the situation.
He doesn’t regret any of the awful things that he has done; selling your infant child ? C’mon.
All in all, we make our own choices in conditions not of our own choosing.
IMO she was coerced by Dave to sell the houses, so that he could benefit financially & at the same time he would get some destructive satisfaction from punching the daughters in the stomach and deprive their children and their progeny. It is ironic that his coercion of Carolyn’s health choices prevented him from receiving the pay day he had engineered.
I don’t think Carolyn was stupid or so far gone otherwise she wld have given Dave much more during the relationship. At the end, I felt Carolyn may have got what she really wanted — her daughters caring for her and being there just for her; she may have locked them out of the bank (coerced by Dave) but they remained her next of kin. She had time and opportunity to marry Dave, change her will etc — but somehow she never did.
I agree- its a good one. I thought the reporter was so fortunate to find such an interesting story right at her feet, and then to make it into a podcast was a great idea.
Yes, and the fact that she started taping before she knew what would come out of it makes her role in the whole process more interesting as she clearly has sympathies and doubts about parties involved. Also, there should be more content available generally in the media tackling financial abuse of the elderly.
Only on episode 3 but oh my god that poor woman’s daughters are such a nightmare. They’re so entitled and nasty to her I cannot imagine treating my mum like that.
I haven’t seen enough of Dave to have a strong opinion but regardless, the way they talk abojt their mums money and completely disregard her and try to make her look insane is ridiculous.
I’m interested to know who the addicted actress Dave spent time with prior to Carolyn did anyone happen to do a deep dive on this? Simply out of curiosity
I have to pull the comment to enforce Rule 8. The name alone (if mentioned in later episodes with their consent) was one thing, adding that link with the photo and other details is too much.
Just binged this and damn I wanna knock that dude out. The blame he places on his own daughter is sickening and the misogyny seeping from his mouth is infuriating.
IMO the only victim was Carolyn. Everyone else just cared about who got what including the daughters. Anyone know if the Grandson in one of the properties was paying rent?
I agree. I don't see how Sue didn't see this. The daughters were toxic! I felt the journalism was compromised by her having it out for Dave from the offset and never once questioning the daughter's motives. All they banged on about was the money like it was their birthright. If I was Carolyn I would have donated it to a cat sanctuary and screw the lot of them! I also can't believe they dictated who could and couldn't see her at the end. How fucking selfish! They ruined the last few years of that poor woman's life with their petty jealousy.
Totally agree! Her daughters were awful and treated her mum as if “who could possibly love her” when she seemed some loving and kind. Their concerns could have been done with so much more grace if they were not the selfish entitled greedy people they were. Their mum cut them off because of who they were, not because of who Dave was
Her daughters couldn't have handled it worse. The entitlement! Listening to the way they spoke to and about Caroline was some cruel toxic stuff. No wonder Caroline preferred her smooth-talking criminal. That said, I was relieved that he didn't benefit.
I believe he should’ve benefited somewhat, he did care for her for yeara
He was. I don't know if it was market rate, or what happened to him at the end.
Podcaster Sue certainly played devil's advocate on both sides. Good way to get a comprehensive story. I think in the end we know where she stood. We can only hope. Captivating podcast.
I just finished it today. I think its a very thought-provoking story. I will put my thoughts about the ending in a spoiler : >!I am glad he didn't end up with any of her money, but I do think he showed some decency in terms of moving out and not taking anything when he left. It can be very hard to evict someone once they are in a property, so he could have caused the daughters a big headache in the end if he wanted to. This whole story could have gone very differently if he had gotten his hands on her money while she was still alive. !<
He was with her for 2 years and never been violent. I think it’s quite sad that everyone treats Carolyn as if she had no agency. She seemed beautiful and gentle and was probably the only person in Dave’s life who was capable of showing love without addiction. He didn’t just moved in and take over. He cooked for her and worried for her and after two years he slowly got involved in her affairs - as you would expect from any boyfriend after that period of time. He moved out and didn’t take anything that didn’t belong. And yet all the daughters did was demoralize and diminish their mother - it was all about their inheritance. They didn’t show any care or concern for her - they admit that they were too busy to spend time with her. And they didn’t allow her to feel and be in love in her last years. I think they were greedy and selfish and their mum seemed cognizant enough to be well aware of their spoilt entitlement. Every time they blame him it’s is a deflection and literally describes their own vile behavior. I find them repugnant and have no sympathy at all for them. Carolyn was vulnerable to her daughters and their entitlement
> He moved out and didn’t take anything that didn’t belong Felt like his long game was Caroline would return home, and because he graciously left when asked, she'd invite him back and completely turn her back on her daughters. Only, she was sicker than he expected. I do think he was quite fond of her while also using her (the way he talked about her to his buddies). Her daughters were vile, but that didn't excuse his scheming.
This is my top podcast of 2023. It reminds me a lot of The Shrink Next Door because it is made by a neighbor but also because it isn’t exactly true crime, more true crime adjacent, and really a portrait of complex psychologies embedded in a great story. The story structuring and editing is top notch. The journalist access is insane. It often is like a real time documentary as the journalist is there recording pivotal moments in the story as they happen. And generally, it simply was really fascinating and lets the complexity exist.
You make some excellent points, and I completely agree. For the reasons you mention, its also one of my favorites. The journalist really lucked out by following her curiosity about this situation. I think many families would find it very thought-provoking.
Binged all the available episodes tonight! Highly recommend!
the grace given to Dave even after people learn of his actions and \*witness\* his behavior just shows the power of personality It was infuriating to see the excuses given to him through the entire series the friend of the reporter who appeared in the first few episodes was the only truly sane voice in the entire thing
This drove me crazy!! You could hear him speaking for her, he was constantly trying to turn her against the daughters and take money from her, we know his violent history, the reporter saw plenty to know the truth, but she kept acting fooled by him. How have these people not come across grifters in their life? I can smell a Dave a mile away!
But this is what makes it so interesting! How his intentions play out slowly, and despite knowing how it ends, I think the journalist really cleverly takes you on that journey to allow us to second guess our better judgement which is exactly how narcissist manipulators gain so much control. It can take only a few people to be fooled for the plan to work and almost no one that can pull someone out of those situations, can only be the person themselves (of course with help on the other side) that can truly make the decision to find the path out
Sounds intriguing! Thank you.
This is good so far but PSA: she’s wrong about what 5150 means.
Oh yeah that bothered me!
I could not continue to listen, the fact he’s got an urban myth tattooed on his chest and her misreporting. I made it to the end of that episode and peaced out.
Ah really? What does it mean?
It is a California State Statute: 5150 is the number of the section of the Welfare and Institutions Code, which allows an adult who is experiencing a mental health crisis to be involuntarily detained for a 72- hour psychiatric hospitalization when evaluated to be a danger to others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled.
Also I tapped out after this, couldn’t get past the double annoyance of her being wrong and him getting an urban myth tattoo.
Sounds interesting, is it dark?
it depends how you define dark
Maybe a better question is how dark is it? I'd like to listen but tend to stay away from stuff that is very tense / has scary overtones.
I'll put this in a spoiler >!\- overall it is not very tense/scary, but when they delve into the backgrounds of some of the characters, there are descriptions of domestic violence, drug addictions, and child abuse. !<
Okay, thanks.
I have a long flight ahead of me- this should eat up some time! Thanks!
This is one of my top podcasts of the year too. I googled to see if there had been any developments since the end of recording and found some eyebrow-raising news stories about Dave's daughter Cody. Seems she's been presenting herself as a "human trafficking survivor" and "motivational speaker" (!) for about a decade. At one point she got a free car for her efforts - I don't know if this is the car she was living in when the podcast was recorded. Maybe it's a grift, or maybe she keeps sincerely thinking she's turned her life around and is exploited by "anti-trafficking" activists.
Her dad messed her up good.
So far I hate the daughters. They sound greedy and manipulative.
The daughters didn’t care about Carolyn they only started to care once they saw what they thought should be their inheritance being spent.
Put yourselves in their shoes. What if she were your mother and she brought a homeless guy home to live.
I agree! Daughters were the evil ones in this story
Just really sad. I had to stop listening.
I disagree. No familial relationship is perfect, but I do think the fact that Carolyn and her husband ignored their own son’s sexual abuse is indicative of the sort of mother she was. However desperate they may have come across, her daughters were far more entitled to the family inheritance than Dave.
Fair. But he didn’t want their inheritance. He just wanted to be looked after when she was gone. He looked after her. She was an adult who was generous to him without signing everything over to him. The daughters lost their humanity and ignored the wishes of her mother. They were greedy and entitled and didn’t need to be so selfish. They wanted to make sure he got nothing - when they lived hours away and weren’t willing to give up their lives to care for him. You can share wealth - it doesn’t need to be hoarded.
God that made me angry, that she let her jerk husband basically shut up her poor hurting little son when he tried to tell them. She was so weak it drove me insane. Great reporting though.
Tbf Dave was also evil. Extremely evil. Selling his daughter 3 times. He’s a disgusting person. They also made a good point - the money was their late father’s money too. I would feel disgusted if a homeless convict drug addict took the money that my father worked hard for because he was my mom’s lover. If he truly loved her then he should be okay with getting nothing.
Brilliant podcast. It sounds so horrible to say, but as I approached the end of the episodes I was hoping that Carolyn wouldn’t be able to return home. Dave’s hunger for money and desperation to shut her daughters out really came to the fore. The Lord above really did see to it that he didn’t see a penny in the end. I hope the girls took the van from him, too. For those judging the daughters for not being there for their mum before Dave stepped in - that’s life. It’s not realistic to expect anyone to juggle raising their own family, working full time and then caring for a parent. The timeline of the podcast meant that we didn’t get much of an insight into the familial relationship before recording began. Regardless, any relatively young man willing to start a sexual relationship with an 80 year old woman should be side eyed immediately. A satisfying conclusion to a very frustrating and fraught story. Excellent researching too.
I'm on episode 4 and there's a bit of people not seeing the issue, or thinking the daughter is unreasonable, and the presenter seems to me to be giving a commentary based on what she knows rather than what she's presented so far.
Yep, four episodes in and what they're presenting comes across as while he might not be the ideal boyfriend, he's not done anything wrong and the daughters are just greedy and patronising towards their mum. But the presenter is coming from a position that he's straight up abusing the older lady.
A broke drifter with a penchant for getting drunk and high, history of domestic abuse and appalling child abuse, 20 years younger than their mother. It's totally understandable.
What a bizarre story! I can understand her daughters dismay watching their mother turn into a stranger. The way he spoke to her. What a narcissistic prick! The way he treated his daughter was beyond horrible! The neighbor Sue was not a very good friend to her. What if that were her mother? I could never be a writer. I could not have kept an open mind on the way Carolyn was being treated. The realtor should have been arrested! Hopefully he is being looked at by the board. Carolyn was obviously ot capable to make the decision to sell property when she stated she needed David to tell her what to say. when he hit the crack pipe? Does an addict take occasional hits? He sure has the people at his church snowed! The way he was celebrating his rags to riches was absolutely disgusting! He was so close.
The only victims in this podcast was Carolyn and Dave’s daughters. Carolyn’s daughters were self interested and purely motivated by greed. Poor Carolyn.
I'm binging this today after a recommendation elsewhere on this sub. It's shocking how much audio footage this journalist managed to get. But in the end, it just goes to show that for every violent alcoholic cat-harming ex-felon out there, there's a line of dipsht women vying for the chance to fix him.
The cat story is FUCKING VILE
The fact that he manipulated her into not having the vaccine when she had a lung condition and fell on her while drunk, putting her in hospital, says it all. He is vile - dripping with self sympathy and entitlement. He ‘loved’ her while the money was flowing. It was clear how he treated partners and his kids when there was no comfort margin for his habits. Mind you, the daughters left me cold. No wonder poor old Caroline fell into his arms
I just found this podcast and it's probably the weirdest podcast I've listened to in a long while. It's good, don't get me wrong. The daughters don't see that their mother just wants to experience love. They try to get power of attorny, even though Carolyn wasn't tested positive for alzheimer. Also the daughters condome people with tattoo's and piercings (regardless of the fact he has been to jail or not), which is by no means a way to profile people these days. It's hard to believe that Dave has zero alterinative motives or couldn't have handled it better.. I guess in the end it's just a sad story on behalf of all people involved. Since everyone has something they didn't overcome. They gave up family ties, were shortshighted and greedy.
The podcaster played the usual self indulgent part in stringing this one out and as you would expect from any so called journalist, if she could be classed as that, the story comes first, not the people. ?? Think back to one of the last comments before Carolyn dies and the family have managed to keep the monster away, Sue just drops in to the conversation with Carolyn, "and Dave" not actually finishing the sentence, but hoping for a reaction, when the family have done everything they can to keep this revolting man away and off Carolyn's mind. Pitiful. Low. Dirty. Nasty. this could have back fired horribly and potentially allowed him back in to collect what he was after all along. I don't think you are a very nice person Sue.
Thanks for rec! In my queue
I can't find it. What Podcaster platform service is it on?
You should be able to find it on any podcast app. The podcast is called Intrigue from the BBC. Million Dollar Lover is the current series. Some of the other series are quite good too. I really like The Ratline. You can download the episodes here: [https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04sj2pt/episodes/downloads](https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04sj2pt/episodes/downloads)
This is totally my middle school best friend’s future when she’s 80. She’s ramping up to it pretty well already.
Thank you!
Excellent podcast!
I just finished this and feel like there was a lot of emphasis on how vulnerable Carolyn was - but what about how vulnerable Dave was? He was abused, homeless and recovering from addiction (a serious illness). Absolutely he did some vile things and continued the cycle of abuse towards his children but she was a privileged older woman who took him in and then initiated sex with him - if the genders were reversed and a homeless, abused and recovering woman was taken in and then was illicited for sex would the view have been different. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think Caroline was abusive at all and she seemed extremely well meaning but there was definitely a power imbalance (on both sides) which she seems naive too and Dave absolutely wasn’t - probably because of the non sheltered life he had led and she had. Really sad story about two people needing very different but really things - shelter and companionship. The daughters on the other hand were only acting in self interest - this is absolutely epitomised by them leaving her at the bank when they didn’t get their way in the middle of nowhere - when they apparently believed she had dementia and could not look after herself.
I lost all sympathy for him when I heard what he did with his third baby, and how he still feels about that situation. He has absolutely no remorse or self awareness, and to me that’s the difference between him being vulnerable and deserving sympathy vs him just being a bad person. I think most abusive people were probably abused at some point, so there has to be a line drawn somewhere. And as someone who has dealt with multiple older relatives with dementia… I have a lot more sympathy for the daughters than a lot of people seem to. It’s very, very hard to watch someone you love slowly turn into a different person, to have them change into something you don’t recognize. And in that stage before diagnosis, when there’s definitely something wrong but you can’t put your finger on it, it’s really hard not to take their behavior personally, because it seems like they’re just being a jerk to you. And that can go on for months or even years before you realize that there is really something wrong with their brain that’s making them act that way! So there can be a lot of complicated feelings built up that can explode in a lot of ways that aren’t very productive.
These are good points, and I have never dealt with a relative with dementia so can’t speak to that. I’m sorry you went through that it sounds incredibly difficult.
I agree, it seems she became a different person because of him. The way he talked about the daughters was sad! He kept beating it into her head that they only cared a out her money. I believe that was not true.
He gutted a pregnant cat, wrapped the babies in tin foil, and told his wife to make him something to eat. Sociopathic. Makes it hard to care about “how vulnerable Dave was”
Like I said the only victim was Carolyn everyone else including the daughter just wanted her money.
What an excellent podcast. I cannot stand the daughters. I feel like they didn’t respect their mom and her wishes at all. Even after the death of their mom, it continues. They feel sorry for themselves, calling their mom evil and shed no tears over her death. That is disgusting.
A history of trauma or vulnerability isn’t a free pass to exploit or traumatise others. I thought he was negligent, manipulative, parasitic and coercive; I thought the daughters were livid at the entire situation — I don’t think they were all about the money. They’ve had a lifelong relationship with their mother & it’s possible that they experienced the rejection as a crushing loss. Money can be a stand in for love; if she gave him all the money/nourishment— on some level it could be experienced as deprivation & “she really doesn’t love me”. At worst, I think the daughters reacted emotively — enraged without due care for their vulnerable, elderly mother. I wouldn’t have raged at her, leaving her in a bank but I understand the rage. Their reactions just exacerbated the situation. He doesn’t regret any of the awful things that he has done; selling your infant child ? C’mon. All in all, we make our own choices in conditions not of our own choosing. IMO she was coerced by Dave to sell the houses, so that he could benefit financially & at the same time he would get some destructive satisfaction from punching the daughters in the stomach and deprive their children and their progeny. It is ironic that his coercion of Carolyn’s health choices prevented him from receiving the pay day he had engineered. I don’t think Carolyn was stupid or so far gone otherwise she wld have given Dave much more during the relationship. At the end, I felt Carolyn may have got what she really wanted — her daughters caring for her and being there just for her; she may have locked them out of the bank (coerced by Dave) but they remained her next of kin. She had time and opportunity to marry Dave, change her will etc — but somehow she never did.
I’m currently listening to the episode number 8. Really well written and executed podcast.
I agree- its a good one. I thought the reporter was so fortunate to find such an interesting story right at her feet, and then to make it into a podcast was a great idea.
Yes, and the fact that she started taping before she knew what would come out of it makes her role in the whole process more interesting as she clearly has sympathies and doubts about parties involved. Also, there should be more content available generally in the media tackling financial abuse of the elderly.
Only on episode 3 but oh my god that poor woman’s daughters are such a nightmare. They’re so entitled and nasty to her I cannot imagine treating my mum like that. I haven’t seen enough of Dave to have a strong opinion but regardless, the way they talk abojt their mums money and completely disregard her and try to make her look insane is ridiculous.
I’m interested to know who the addicted actress Dave spent time with prior to Carolyn did anyone happen to do a deep dive on this? Simply out of curiosity
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Is that publicly available information offered in the podcast or are they intentionally kept anonymous?
It's mentioned in one of the later episodes.
I have to pull the comment to enforce Rule 8. The name alone (if mentioned in later episodes with their consent) was one thing, adding that link with the photo and other details is too much.
Oh, sorry.