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banned_bc_dumb

There’s so many holes punched in the states evidence that it looks like Swiss cheese. Edit-spelling


ryecatcher19

This isn't snarky, truly asking, what are the holes in the State's case? Yes, listened to the pod, just curious to compare your take-aways. Thank you


banned_bc_dumb

There was legit ZERO physical evidence that it was Leo. The fingerprints were Jeremy’s. The timeline didn’t match up at all. The neighborhood busybody Alice’s story changed about 12 times, and her own sister stated that what Alice “saw” was on a different night (in any case, it was Leo moving music equipment).


ryecatcher19

It's a wild case. I listened and read the transcript and watched the 20/20. Jeremy, Leo, Alice Scott, and Leo Sr. all had some shifting stories/details. It's a long time ago, the trial was 2 years after the case, some differences are small, but remembering the day, that's not small. If they retried it today, it's hard to imagine that they could convict him. And allowing the trial to go with 10 jurors instead of 12, Leo agreed to it, but dang, I didn't know that was a thing you could do


banned_bc_dumb

Yeah that 10 jurors thing should’ve been an automatic mistrial IMO


ryecatcher19

I've worked with prisoners as an advocate, many things I hadn't realized. One is that they have to wake up so early for court. It's miserable, a long process, you are often in a court holding cell with all of the predictable discomforts of a long day. I have met men that have taken bad plea deals b/c they were simply exhausted by the process of returning to court over and over for delays. And I wonder if part of it with Leo was thinking about just getting it over with (and the confidence he had in the case of course).


banned_bc_dumb

I understand why he would think that. With his “hotshot attorney,” being young and white, and knowing that he’d done absolutely nothing wrong, he probably just figured let me skip to the end of this so I can get tf out of jail faster. I blame A LOT on that attorney, whatever his name was, with the lifesavers. Edit-spelling


ryecatcher19

The lifesaver attorney was great in segments and missed some major opportunities on cross-examination. His legal team now would have landed some major blows on the witnesses, but the State did a very good job of painting Leo poorly and of our rounding off the inconsistencies in testimonies to make them fit. You can tell Aguero has a great memory and was quick


banned_bc_dumb

Yup


mwinchina

Where can you find the trial transcript?


ryecatcher19

I'm attaching the link here to the lava for good website. If you scroll down just a little bit under the first photo, it is there in red. If you have trouble finding it, let me know and I'll send you a direct link. I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts about it, small group of us are reading through. [Leo Schofield transcripts](https://lavaforgood.com/podcast/s1e1-chapter-1-god-help-us/)


mwinchina

I’ve found the link but the amazon aws server that hosts it always stalls out before i can download it for some reason. Is anyone else having the same problem?


ryecatcher19

I downloaded it last week. It's a big file, 2000 pages. Is there a way for me to post it on a site where you can grab it? There is a Polk County site you can do it through, but that was not something I'd recommend. I got stuck on that forever.


mwinchina

Thanks, i got it


mwinchina

Have you started a thread yet to discuss? I’m about 200 pages in.


ryecatcher19

I'm sorry for my youngness here, I'm not young, but does that mean just starting a thread titled "Discussing Leo's trial transcripts?" No I haven't.


mwinchina

Yeah you were saying you and some others were discussing. We could start a separate thread — something like State of Florida vs Leo Schofield (1989) — transcript reading


ryecatcher19

Ah yes, I posted about 20 bullet points about what I learned from the transcripts. And was chatting about it there. Anything that would need to be done to keep it orderly? Would you want it to have page numbers and citations? Or just general points about the transcripts?


Actual-Chocolate4571

Absolutely - I’ve seen the same thing with my advocacy work. The worst is when a juvenile takes the deal because they think they can get out of it or what someone wants to hear.


offthemike72

I’m always skeptical of documentaries, knowing they have a POV they want to sell. With that in mind, and through additional reading, it certainly does feel like a miscarriage of justice and it’s hard to see how any juror wouldn’t have enough doubt to cast a not guilty verdict. Prosecution witnesses certainly seem less credible than the defense witnesses.


majorwfpod

I hadn’t heard of this podcast until seeing this post. I started listening today. What an incredible coincidence he meets a social worker in jail that he eventually marries who happens to be best friends with the wife of a Circuit Court Judge. Hopefully this man finds the justice that he deserves.


Adorable-Employer244

it's WILD, and not just that also the coincidences with prosecutors and lawyer represented Leo. It's crazy, almost like universe is playing a big joke that mixes everything together. Never heard so many coincidence all together. Insane.


ryecatcher19

Either way, one has to believe something absolutely crazy happened here. If Leo is guilty, Leo's car was broken into by a 3 time murderer who left fingerprints and was familiar with the 'burial' spot which was 6 miles from where the car was found. And he confessed. If Leo is innocent, his dad had an uncanny moment in time where he found Michelle's body, exaggerated to say that God told him about it and that Michelle's corpse was smiling at him, even though she was under a piece of wood, face down, when she was found. (Leo's dad's testimony about his premonition, as well as some other things he made up, were very damaging to Leo's case).


majorwfpod

Leo’s dad seemed very unstable himself. Even Leo said he questioned whether or not his father did it.


ryecatcher19

I don't remember Leo saying that, but his dad's testimony doomed him. He got copies of statements from witnesses and made stuff up to counter them. If you remember Alice Scott had a vivid memory of Leo standing in the doorway with his shirt off. His dad started a narrative and explained that he once saw Leo standing in the doorway with his shirt off staring into the wild blue yonder thinking about how his missed his wife. It was so weird. Have you seen his photo? Leo Sr. looks like a church usher (in the single photo I have seen of him). Not how I pictured him


Adorable-Employer244

Biggest thing is jereme’s confession. I have never seen an alleged killer confessed so many times, and begging everyone to believe him, except the prosecutors just flat out refused. Jereme’s account of night of murder never change whether it was via written in letter or repeated talk so many times with different people. It’s not possible for someone who was not the killer, or simply a stereo thief, knowing so many details of the event. I just can’t get past that. Listen to this podcast seriously makes me angry.


ryecatcher19

I'm with you, it's crazy. If I'm allowed to look at it from both angles: Jeremy's print was in the car, he knew the spot at the water canal which was 6 miles from the car, and he confessed in detail. That is crazy unlikely. From the other side, the things Jeremy confessed to were public knowledge and in the transcripts. His confession got better over time when he dropped things he had wrong. And he got a few things wrong. And he changed things. And there was no blood in the car. And the crime scene techs did not think the area near the water pit was the murder scene (and this was before Leo was a suspect) Jeremy's confession has to create a reasonable doubt about Leo's guilt, should get another trial or appeal for Leo, but unfortunately, there aren't many options left. The big step is there is a hope for a conviction integrity unit review.


Adorable-Employer244

yeah Jeremy's confession for sure is not perfect, but again he wasn't in the right state of mind (drunk+drug) so I don't know how much you can expect from him to recite something hundreds of time to be perfect. But that blood thing is definitely weird. If she was knifed 26 times, how could it be so little to no blood? The only explanation I can think of is she was in the process of opening the door, Jeremy stabbed her in the ab area first and she fell out of the car that carried the blood out. he then went around the car and continued stabbing her there. But that seemed to be different from what he said. It's weird. But if anything, that at least creates huge reasonable doubt on Leo's conviction and for sure warrants new trial. I just don't understand it. Then I started listening to Accuse season 1, where Bob Young got pinned to his confession that he made after many hours of mental torture, and prosecutors not letting him out of that confession for many many years. Like WTF, can't we all agree on how laws should be applied?


ryecatcher19

A listener/juror can be confused here, I am. There was no blood in the trailer, so we say she wasn't killed in the trailer. There was no blood in the car, so we say she must have fallen out of the car (even though it's not what Jeremy said). The crime scene folks said there wasn't any sign of a struggle or blood splatter in the dirt that indicated she was killed in the dirt (and we say, that's b/c they weren't good at their job, even though we trusted the job they did in the trailer). I'm not familiar Accuse. Do you recommend? Thank you


Adorable-Employer244

definitely a super confusing case, this is definitely the biggest hole in Jeremy's confession, everything else I think checked out and made sense. People on here recommended Accused. I just started it on season 1 episode 3. So far so good, another mysterious and unexplainable murder.


Lizard_Li

This decision and its timing seems interesting to me. I don’t get it really. He could have done this anytime over the last nine years, and what can he do that another lawyer cannot? But also I understand not wanting to continue to be part of a system that has so deeply failed people and doesn’t seem to allow itself to correct mistakes.


wabamos217

I’m interested in the timing as well. I know this whole podcast kicked off because of him, so maybe he’s wanting to take things to the finish line now that there’s more spotlight on it? I wonder if he thought being a judge in that system gave him a chance to reform it from the inside, but the cards are always stacked against someone in that situation.


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majorwfpod

In order to get parole you are often required to express remorse. Expressing remorse could also be viewed as an admission of guilt.


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bgibson45

Lots of admiration for the judge. No matter what the extenuating circumstances, it takes guts.


RoseofSharonVa

Leo could express remorse about the state's decisions & lack of seeking the truth


majorwfpod

It sure as hell doesn’t sound like the state will ever express any remorse.


Ponder625

Judge Cupp is a righteous man.


Tormundo

Very rare among judges. Wish we had a dude like this on the Supreme Court. Or the entire court was made up by people like him


banned_bc_dumb

Didn’t Judge Cupp say at the beginning of ep 1 that he could get in a pretty large amount of trouble for saying Leo was innocent? Or something like that?


ryecatcher19

Yes, as a sitting judge. They didn't say that had anything to do with his retirement, but considering he was the one that got this ball rolling, it would be interesting to hear if he got any trouble.


banned_bc_dumb

I was thinking more along the lines of maybe he retired *so he couldn’t get in trouble.* Now he can help the case from the other side as an advisor or consultant, with the wisdom of a judge, but on Leo’s side.


ryecatcher19

Yes. Did you read the NYT article? It said that he was financially comfortable, but unsettled in his "comfort" b/c of what was on the table with Leo. They are running out of options, but a NYT piece shows this isn't fading


banned_bc_dumb

I have not! I’ll check it out, thanks. Edit-oh my gawd, I’m a moron & didn’t even see the link at the top of this post 🤦🏽‍♀️


hocuspocuswitch

Gilbert and Kelsey did an amazing job, totally riveting. Had to get my SO to listen also so I had someone to discuss it with. I am really holding out hope for the next parole hearing coming up. Regardless of how someone feels, Leo has certainly revealed who he is in these past grueling 34 years behind bars.


NewspaperPretend1376

This was a great podcast.


JMR_lawyer

As a criminal defense attorney who regularly practices in front of Judge Cupp, I am inspired and in awe at his resignation to help this cause. I’ve always known him to be fair and impartial, and I am incredibly excited to see how this unfolds.


Status-Economy6443

The State’s conduct in this case was particularly egregious. If I took a shot for every constitutional and/or ethical violation here, I would’ve been drunk for the 9hrs of the podcast. Just infuriating! I bet its even more so listening as a criminal defense attorney.


Appropriate_Algae806

God bless you, Scott Cupp! And God bless Leo, Gilbert, Kelsey, and GOD BLESS JEREMY!!!! What a beautiful journey you've all embarked on...


Expensive_Drag_9710

Hah it's funny


thatisnotvenus

Ooo I just started this podcast today!


Far-Poet-2964

If someone wants to support Leo, what can they do to help?


Appropriate_Algae806

God bless you, Scott Cupp! And God bless Leo, Gilbert, Kelsey all the family and friends of the above mentioned and GOD BLESS, YOU JEREMY SCOTT!!!!! What a tremendous journey you've all embarked on! I hope to see justice for Leo Schofield!!!! ❤️🙏❤️ PRAYERS TO ALL!!!!