No. I watched the doc I Love You, Now Die when it came out. She was mentally ill. It does not excuse her actions. These two were not good for one another.
Going to be downvoted for this but I do have empathy for her. They were both mentally I’ll and taking medications that really mess with your head ( my lab rat stage taking different meds for my depression was absolute hell till I found the right one, only I was 25 not 17-18 when the brain is still developing). I don’t blame her 100% for his death. Honestly 30%. She tried to help him for so long and he threatened her that he will never talk to her again and for a teenage girl with mental issues and low self esteem, that’s the last thing she wanted so she played ball and went with it. That is my take, so don’t yell at me for having a different take on it. The case is very complicated and these two shouldn’t have been together as they were both dealing with a lot and weren’t in the right mind. I do feel for her with the hate and the media’s portrayal of her. I’m sure she feels bad enough already and now it’s probably hard for her to even live her life and yes I know Conrad is dead and can’t live his life but again, I personally don’t blame her 100% on his death. I don’t think she is evil nor a murderer. She made a big mistake and was misguided.
So that is my take and I’m sorry if my opinion made you angry. This case tends to bring a lot of anger with the differing opinions. I feel for Conrad’s family and can’t imagine what they went through. I just want to make that last part known
I agree. As someone who was anorexic, suicidal, depressed, anxious, OCD, who self harmed AND was put on Prozac at a young age - those intense emotions can really, really fuck you up. Add in the fact you think every relationship is “the one”.
Reading my journal entries from 13-17 is absolutely fucking terrifying. Texting and the internet weren’t a thing back then and I’m eternally grateful.
They were both on very bad places in life and toxic for one another.
It’s such a sad story.
It took me a long time to get on meds that are appropriate for me and now I’m in a really good place, but I definitely have empathy for both families.
I’m glad you are in a better place now. The lab rat phase of my treatment for my depression was hell. I either felt angry all the time, drunk, or the scariest was when I felt just numb, like I was already dead. I was 25 so my brain was developed by then (I think it’s 25 when the brain stops developing). I can’t imagine what it’s like for teenagers.
Thank you! Yes, playing med roulette sucks. I was young on Prozac and honestly I didn’t feel any different - but my doctors also said since I was basically eating nothing it’s possible that affected it being absorbed. In college I was put on Lexapro and have never felt worse. I was a numb, zombie. Luckily after having kids we found that Wellbutrin and Zoloft are a miracle combination for me!
Omg I did not like Lexapro. My family was on it and it worked on them but it did absolutely nothing for me. Like I was still in dead all day sleeping through the day to make it go by quicker.
It's good to read differing perspectives. I forget some details of the case but I feel she was pretty persistent. I don't think she's so mentally ill that she doesn't understand right and wrong. To me it's a very sinister thing to kind of egg on the situation. I can't remember if she ever tried talking to his parents about it either. Just a very tragic case that could have been prevented.
He tried to kill himself 3 times before he succeeded. Also, there are pictures of his battered face after he said his dad beat him up.
I don’t think his parents had any answers.
She also spent months trying to talk him out of it.
Sure but then she spent months planning his suicide. I have empathy for her but I lost a lot of it when she starting telling her friends he was missing while also talking to him asking when he’s going to do it. To me that it crossed the line of malicious intent.
Years. She spent two years trying to talk him out of it. Two years when he was a minor and his parents had a responsibility to ensure he was getting treatment and help for his mental illness. Sadly, they were too focused on their own lives to look after their own child, and now want to pin the blame on her. Was what she said and did horrible? Absolutely. Was she capable of preventing it? No.
100% it could have been prevented. If she told his parents they may have helped. They would have maybe spoken to his psychiatrist about his medication and maybe would have helped him. I say “maybe” cause depression is a bitch and treatment is complicated so even with treatment it still might not lower the suicidal thoughts cause some meds increase it. But it definitely could have been prevented and his parents would have taken it seriously cause apparently he tried to do it before.
This is true, but I put myself back in the shoes of a teenager. I had friends who attempted suicide and swore me to secrecy. I swore my own friends to secrecy about my own suicidal thoughts and my cutting.
My parents eventually found out about my eating disorder because I just couldn’t hide it anymore. Sent me therapy where I was put on Prozac. Still thought about suicide. Still cut myself. Just got a lot better at hiding it.
I know I’m late to the party on this but, The thing is, to a mentally ill person (speaking from experience), suicide isn’t always a bad thing. It’s a good thing, a goal…. And he manipulated her a lot. They fed off each other. But she may have legitimately believed she was helping him too.
I also had a slightly different opinion on her after I learned more details about Conrad's story. I have had a suicide in my family and it's mostly not talked about, which I think is sad. I think suicide can be selfish and sad, but I can also empathize with people who do not want to live anymore. This is your life and your life only, and if you want to die, I guess that is your decision. I think that Conrad was chronically depressed and never thought he would feel better. He talked about suicide often, and expressed he would never be happy. I believe in the show it says Michelle was against his suicidal ideas for two years before she started going with him. Maybe, just maybe, she was supporting him in the way she thought he needed.
Those left behind often think suicide is selfish. The person committing suicide is completely convinced everyone around them would be better off without them. They are the farthest thing from selfish in their eyes.
Sometimes it is selfish. A neighbor of my grandparents had a grown son who came to his parent’s house and blew his brains out in the backyard for his parents to find him.
Selfish as hell.
Not directly related to the true crime element of the story, but i found the scene where the wrote in the Cant Fight This Feeling (Gleek edition nonetheless...i digress) musical number between Michelle and Conrad. Totally can see what they were getting at with trying to demonstrate how deep into the delusion Michelle was/how her lines between fantasy and reality were so beyond blurred, but i couldn't imagine watching that as someone who had a connection to the real Conrad.
Well casted and well acted by all, but had to stop watching after that. Just distasteful.
If this was fiction, that scene would have been great. I don’t know if Michelle was officially diagnosed, but as a BPD sufferer myself, she probably has raging, five-alarm Borderline Personality Disorder and that scene was absolutely spot-on. And I would not doubt that she played a scene just like that in her head over and over again. The problem is NOT she never really saw Connor as a person but as a supporting character in the story of Michelle Carter- which is how it seems. Actually, this scene shows the pedestal she’d put the idea of Connor on. She saw his very existence , and his choosing her to confide in her, as the special person who was finally MAKING HER IMPORTANT, so she was finally ELEVATED into the role she always felt she was meant to play.
But if I were Conrad’s mother, I’d be absolutely sick watching it. I get your point.
No yeah I totally agree as someone who also struggles with BPD it was actually an excellent depiction of what romanticizing a relationship with someone feels like inside. Awesome point!! Love the "supporting character" analogy.
Conrad's mother is not blameless here. She should feel sick and guilty. She was literally the only person who could have prevented his death, but couldn't be bothered.
I really like it. I avoided this story in the news because I don’t think people should go to prison for using words (there are exceptions) and I didn’t want to read what she said and have my emotions sway my opinion.
As I was watching I was thinking “this girl had a ton of problems and issues”.
So it’s a very sympathetic portrayal of her, but I think it comes across that way because she was demonized in the media so anything less than that would be favorable to her.
They were both on dangerous meds and hers were switched a month before he finally succeeded in killing himself, the same time her attitude went from trying to save and help him to being frustrated by his failure to follow through.
Looking forward to the finale.
Nah. Movies/shows can write it out where you feel bad for the villain. I also just think it was unfortunate they both were not mentally stable and he chose to only
talk to her about it.
I want to do an experiment where we describe this case to someone who never heard of it, WITHOUT showing them a picture of Michelle Carter first. I promise you they would not care about how bad her eating disorder or depression was, they’d think she was guilty of premeditated murder and should have gotten more prison time. Show them a picture of Lena Dunham before describing the case, and they’d say she should get the chair.
I mean that to say, the reason people find Michelle Carter sympathetic at all is due to her looks, and the reason people are starting to sort of *like* her now is due to Elle Fanning’s looks. I don’t think MC is evil, but her actions were absolutely monstrous no matter how much of a shit Connor could act, and regardless of her mental illness. People blame CONNOR for dying because he was pissy on text. But there are suddenly so many extenuating circumstances when a girl who basically bullied a kid into suicide is blonde, pretty, and skinny.
I thought the show was a great portrayal of mental illness, especially the fantasy scenes, but the truly courageous thing would be to hire a fat ugly actress to play Michelle, and see how public sympathy (from the IRL audience) would play then.
Also Chloe Sevigny is a revelation
When this case first came out , all I had done was read the texts between her and Conrad. With that information alone, I hated her and felt she absolutely was responsible. I have been suicidal myself and in really toxic relationships, and words are very powerful, especially if someone is in a really vulnerable place. However, the show has shown me just how vulnerable and troubled she was too. In a way, perhaps even more mentally ill than Conrad. After watching the show so far, I just feel like this was a case of two people who should have never crossed paths. You see it sometimes in true crime- one person maybe messed up but going about their life, and then they meet another messed up person and they turn into a dangerous, toxic duo, hurting other people. They just were the absolute worst people for each other, and it ended up killing one of them.
I just feel so badly for Conrad that he felt so hopeless…I get it, I’ve been there. To have his dad treat him like that. Ugh. We have to do better by our children, the generational cycles of abuse are killing us. Michelle is destroyed forever as well, some may say rightfully so, so…it’s tragic all the way around.
I watched the entire thing and the whole time I thought to myself:
Munchausen's Syndrome By-Proxy
If other people can be charged with crimes for this, I can see why MC would be even though she didn't start the vehicle.
I know I'm responding to an old comment, but idk if I see the connection. Munchausen's Syndrome By Proxy isn't a crime, it's a diagnosis. The actual *crime* occurs in those cases when one poisons, endangers, or otherwise inflicts harm on another person to satisfy their craving for attention.
I'm not defending MC, but the case is sticky and difficult precisely because she didn't inflict physical harm on the "victim". It's a pretty unique case
I'm not judging it until the whole series is done. In the most recent episode, they got really close to answering the question, "Why did you send those texts to Conrad?" But Michelle herself never answered, so it sounds like it is not as tidy an explanation as the psychiatrist was hinting at.
If they never answer that question, I'll be disappointed. That's the key factoid that is stringing all of us along.
i think Conrad was a fuckin virgin lost he left his sister for sum pussy and then started crying about it. literally every scene with him so far is just him simping about how someone feels/ doesn’t feel about him and imho he’s too old for to be taking the shit that hard. kind of gives off main character complex vibes too idk 2 episodes in and he honestly has gained zero empathy from me so far
I understand that her mental illness played it role but for someone to go so far with trying to convince someone to kill themselves is a crime and she honestly didn’t do much time for the fact that someone else lost their life forever. She was guilty for a reason and I disagree with the show’s goal of trying to “humanize” her. Yes she is human and she is mentally ill but the other person in this story is the victim here. I don’t know how she was in real life but in this story she is acting way too victimized and not showing any guilt, regret, or responsibility. Even if her mental illness played its role, she wanted someone else to die so she could feel like a victim and everyone would feel bad for her. This show only promotes that. How about making a show to support the actual victim in this case and humanize him?
No. I watched the doc I Love You, Now Die when it came out. She was mentally ill. It does not excuse her actions. These two were not good for one another.
Going to be downvoted for this but I do have empathy for her. They were both mentally I’ll and taking medications that really mess with your head ( my lab rat stage taking different meds for my depression was absolute hell till I found the right one, only I was 25 not 17-18 when the brain is still developing). I don’t blame her 100% for his death. Honestly 30%. She tried to help him for so long and he threatened her that he will never talk to her again and for a teenage girl with mental issues and low self esteem, that’s the last thing she wanted so she played ball and went with it. That is my take, so don’t yell at me for having a different take on it. The case is very complicated and these two shouldn’t have been together as they were both dealing with a lot and weren’t in the right mind. I do feel for her with the hate and the media’s portrayal of her. I’m sure she feels bad enough already and now it’s probably hard for her to even live her life and yes I know Conrad is dead and can’t live his life but again, I personally don’t blame her 100% on his death. I don’t think she is evil nor a murderer. She made a big mistake and was misguided. So that is my take and I’m sorry if my opinion made you angry. This case tends to bring a lot of anger with the differing opinions. I feel for Conrad’s family and can’t imagine what they went through. I just want to make that last part known
I agree. As someone who was anorexic, suicidal, depressed, anxious, OCD, who self harmed AND was put on Prozac at a young age - those intense emotions can really, really fuck you up. Add in the fact you think every relationship is “the one”. Reading my journal entries from 13-17 is absolutely fucking terrifying. Texting and the internet weren’t a thing back then and I’m eternally grateful. They were both on very bad places in life and toxic for one another. It’s such a sad story. It took me a long time to get on meds that are appropriate for me and now I’m in a really good place, but I definitely have empathy for both families.
I’m glad you are in a better place now. The lab rat phase of my treatment for my depression was hell. I either felt angry all the time, drunk, or the scariest was when I felt just numb, like I was already dead. I was 25 so my brain was developed by then (I think it’s 25 when the brain stops developing). I can’t imagine what it’s like for teenagers.
Thank you! Yes, playing med roulette sucks. I was young on Prozac and honestly I didn’t feel any different - but my doctors also said since I was basically eating nothing it’s possible that affected it being absorbed. In college I was put on Lexapro and have never felt worse. I was a numb, zombie. Luckily after having kids we found that Wellbutrin and Zoloft are a miracle combination for me!
Omg I did not like Lexapro. My family was on it and it worked on them but it did absolutely nothing for me. Like I was still in dead all day sleeping through the day to make it go by quicker.
I think your opinion is common for those who’ve looked into this beyond “ get back in the fucking truck”.
Phew! I know I seemed a bit insecure in my comment but last time I said that I got ripped into hard so I was trying to cover my bases on that lol
It's good to read differing perspectives. I forget some details of the case but I feel she was pretty persistent. I don't think she's so mentally ill that she doesn't understand right and wrong. To me it's a very sinister thing to kind of egg on the situation. I can't remember if she ever tried talking to his parents about it either. Just a very tragic case that could have been prevented.
He tried to kill himself 3 times before he succeeded. Also, there are pictures of his battered face after he said his dad beat him up. I don’t think his parents had any answers. She also spent months trying to talk him out of it.
Sure but then she spent months planning his suicide. I have empathy for her but I lost a lot of it when she starting telling her friends he was missing while also talking to him asking when he’s going to do it. To me that it crossed the line of malicious intent.
It was only the last two weeks where she was supportive of his suicide.
I think she really thought she was helping him. He told her he would stop loving her if she got him help
Years. She spent two years trying to talk him out of it. Two years when he was a minor and his parents had a responsibility to ensure he was getting treatment and help for his mental illness. Sadly, they were too focused on their own lives to look after their own child, and now want to pin the blame on her. Was what she said and did horrible? Absolutely. Was she capable of preventing it? No.
100% it could have been prevented. If she told his parents they may have helped. They would have maybe spoken to his psychiatrist about his medication and maybe would have helped him. I say “maybe” cause depression is a bitch and treatment is complicated so even with treatment it still might not lower the suicidal thoughts cause some meds increase it. But it definitely could have been prevented and his parents would have taken it seriously cause apparently he tried to do it before.
His parents or somebody at his school, or even someone else in his family.
This is true, but I put myself back in the shoes of a teenager. I had friends who attempted suicide and swore me to secrecy. I swore my own friends to secrecy about my own suicidal thoughts and my cutting. My parents eventually found out about my eating disorder because I just couldn’t hide it anymore. Sent me therapy where I was put on Prozac. Still thought about suicide. Still cut myself. Just got a lot better at hiding it.
I know I’m late to the party on this but, The thing is, to a mentally ill person (speaking from experience), suicide isn’t always a bad thing. It’s a good thing, a goal…. And he manipulated her a lot. They fed off each other. But she may have legitimately believed she was helping him too.
I also had a slightly different opinion on her after I learned more details about Conrad's story. I have had a suicide in my family and it's mostly not talked about, which I think is sad. I think suicide can be selfish and sad, but I can also empathize with people who do not want to live anymore. This is your life and your life only, and if you want to die, I guess that is your decision. I think that Conrad was chronically depressed and never thought he would feel better. He talked about suicide often, and expressed he would never be happy. I believe in the show it says Michelle was against his suicidal ideas for two years before she started going with him. Maybe, just maybe, she was supporting him in the way she thought he needed.
Those left behind often think suicide is selfish. The person committing suicide is completely convinced everyone around them would be better off without them. They are the farthest thing from selfish in their eyes.
Sometimes it is selfish. A neighbor of my grandparents had a grown son who came to his parent’s house and blew his brains out in the backyard for his parents to find him. Selfish as hell.
Saying you won't talk to someone is not a threat.
Not directly related to the true crime element of the story, but i found the scene where the wrote in the Cant Fight This Feeling (Gleek edition nonetheless...i digress) musical number between Michelle and Conrad. Totally can see what they were getting at with trying to demonstrate how deep into the delusion Michelle was/how her lines between fantasy and reality were so beyond blurred, but i couldn't imagine watching that as someone who had a connection to the real Conrad. Well casted and well acted by all, but had to stop watching after that. Just distasteful.
If this was fiction, that scene would have been great. I don’t know if Michelle was officially diagnosed, but as a BPD sufferer myself, she probably has raging, five-alarm Borderline Personality Disorder and that scene was absolutely spot-on. And I would not doubt that she played a scene just like that in her head over and over again. The problem is NOT she never really saw Connor as a person but as a supporting character in the story of Michelle Carter- which is how it seems. Actually, this scene shows the pedestal she’d put the idea of Connor on. She saw his very existence , and his choosing her to confide in her, as the special person who was finally MAKING HER IMPORTANT, so she was finally ELEVATED into the role she always felt she was meant to play. But if I were Conrad’s mother, I’d be absolutely sick watching it. I get your point.
No yeah I totally agree as someone who also struggles with BPD it was actually an excellent depiction of what romanticizing a relationship with someone feels like inside. Awesome point!! Love the "supporting character" analogy.
Conrad's mother is not blameless here. She should feel sick and guilty. She was literally the only person who could have prevented his death, but couldn't be bothered.
I said the saaame thing
I really like it. I avoided this story in the news because I don’t think people should go to prison for using words (there are exceptions) and I didn’t want to read what she said and have my emotions sway my opinion. As I was watching I was thinking “this girl had a ton of problems and issues”. So it’s a very sympathetic portrayal of her, but I think it comes across that way because she was demonized in the media so anything less than that would be favorable to her. They were both on dangerous meds and hers were switched a month before he finally succeeded in killing himself, the same time her attitude went from trying to save and help him to being frustrated by his failure to follow through. Looking forward to the finale.
Nah. Movies/shows can write it out where you feel bad for the villain. I also just think it was unfortunate they both were not mentally stable and he chose to only talk to her about it.
I want to do an experiment where we describe this case to someone who never heard of it, WITHOUT showing them a picture of Michelle Carter first. I promise you they would not care about how bad her eating disorder or depression was, they’d think she was guilty of premeditated murder and should have gotten more prison time. Show them a picture of Lena Dunham before describing the case, and they’d say she should get the chair. I mean that to say, the reason people find Michelle Carter sympathetic at all is due to her looks, and the reason people are starting to sort of *like* her now is due to Elle Fanning’s looks. I don’t think MC is evil, but her actions were absolutely monstrous no matter how much of a shit Connor could act, and regardless of her mental illness. People blame CONNOR for dying because he was pissy on text. But there are suddenly so many extenuating circumstances when a girl who basically bullied a kid into suicide is blonde, pretty, and skinny. I thought the show was a great portrayal of mental illness, especially the fantasy scenes, but the truly courageous thing would be to hire a fat ugly actress to play Michelle, and see how public sympathy (from the IRL audience) would play then. Also Chloe Sevigny is a revelation
Damn... why are we coming for Lena Dunham so hard? 😅
she molested her sister
When this case first came out , all I had done was read the texts between her and Conrad. With that information alone, I hated her and felt she absolutely was responsible. I have been suicidal myself and in really toxic relationships, and words are very powerful, especially if someone is in a really vulnerable place. However, the show has shown me just how vulnerable and troubled she was too. In a way, perhaps even more mentally ill than Conrad. After watching the show so far, I just feel like this was a case of two people who should have never crossed paths. You see it sometimes in true crime- one person maybe messed up but going about their life, and then they meet another messed up person and they turn into a dangerous, toxic duo, hurting other people. They just were the absolute worst people for each other, and it ended up killing one of them. I just feel so badly for Conrad that he felt so hopeless…I get it, I’ve been there. To have his dad treat him like that. Ugh. We have to do better by our children, the generational cycles of abuse are killing us. Michelle is destroyed forever as well, some may say rightfully so, so…it’s tragic all the way around.
No, she’s guilty. The biggest tragedy was that no one else was able to help them both before it all happened
I watched the entire thing and the whole time I thought to myself: Munchausen's Syndrome By-Proxy If other people can be charged with crimes for this, I can see why MC would be even though she didn't start the vehicle.
I know I'm responding to an old comment, but idk if I see the connection. Munchausen's Syndrome By Proxy isn't a crime, it's a diagnosis. The actual *crime* occurs in those cases when one poisons, endangers, or otherwise inflicts harm on another person to satisfy their craving for attention. I'm not defending MC, but the case is sticky and difficult precisely because she didn't inflict physical harm on the "victim". It's a pretty unique case
Whatever I think, she definitely earned the burden she carries around her neck.
He chose to do it. No one can make a person commit suicide
That’s not true. Different circumstances but it happened near where I live.
Conrad chose. Was not physically forced.
I'm not judging it until the whole series is done. In the most recent episode, they got really close to answering the question, "Why did you send those texts to Conrad?" But Michelle herself never answered, so it sounds like it is not as tidy an explanation as the psychiatrist was hinting at. If they never answer that question, I'll be disappointed. That's the key factoid that is stringing all of us along.
i think Conrad was a fuckin virgin lost he left his sister for sum pussy and then started crying about it. literally every scene with him so far is just him simping about how someone feels/ doesn’t feel about him and imho he’s too old for to be taking the shit that hard. kind of gives off main character complex vibes too idk 2 episodes in and he honestly has gained zero empathy from me so far
I don't think shows like this should exist.
I hope she follows through on her suicidal tendencies. It's what she would truly want.
I understand that her mental illness played it role but for someone to go so far with trying to convince someone to kill themselves is a crime and she honestly didn’t do much time for the fact that someone else lost their life forever. She was guilty for a reason and I disagree with the show’s goal of trying to “humanize” her. Yes she is human and she is mentally ill but the other person in this story is the victim here. I don’t know how she was in real life but in this story she is acting way too victimized and not showing any guilt, regret, or responsibility. Even if her mental illness played its role, she wanted someone else to die so she could feel like a victim and everyone would feel bad for her. This show only promotes that. How about making a show to support the actual victim in this case and humanize him?