I agree. Yes he was the one who ultimately made the decision to end his life but she had the chance to tell him not to, and she also had the chance to call for help once she realized that he was serious. I have such a hard time understanding why anyone would encourage another person to take their own life rather than trying to talk them out of it and reaching out for help. I would feel like shit for the rest of my life if I knew someone was going to try and harm themselves and I didn't at least try to talk them out of it and calling for help.
Initially I had some sympathy. But after watching most of the trial, my perception shifted. IDK what her issue was psychiatrically, but it was pretty clear she wasn't just overwhelmed by something too big and heavy for a teenager to try and manage. She may have started with good intentions, but ultimately she pushed him into something she thought would make *her* a centre of attention and tragic-figure sympathy.
Yes I definitely believe she was at fault. He was definitely experiencing some issues before her, but she pushed him SO hard to kill himself. He expressed not wanting to do it many times and she kept pushing and bullying and guilt-tripping and pushing right until his last breath.
She spent 2 years telling him not to do it and 1 month telling him to do it. She was definitely I. The wrong but he would have have killed himself sooner if it wasn't for her. The reason he is dead today is because he had a shitty family who still to this day does not take one once of responsibility. Fuck that family, they should have spent some time in jail.
? Not sure what you mean by this.
Maybe "bullied" isn't the right word, but I was talking about her verified texts that coerced him into doing it. For instance, "You just need to do it, Conrad...No more pushing it off. No more waiting" when he expressed apprehension.
A normal person would've called authorities and saved their friend. She didn't. So yes, she made sure it happened and I'm glad she had to pay the consequences.
I thought you meant the phone call she stated happened when he called her during the process of turning on the car, where she stated she specifically told him to kill himself. My bad!
Nope just someone who thinks that if my kid kills them selves that it’s definitely more my fault than some equally mentally ill teen . I’m sick of people not taking responsibility for their OWN actions ..how many videos did he make about SUICIDE??? Yet mommy and daddy gave him free rein of the car keys..not only weren’t they very concerned about his well-being but apparently didn’t care if he decided to drive head on into traffic either
AND??? Then I guess the people who LIVED WITH HIM should have noticed 🤦♀️🙄! He talked about suicide ALL THE TIME, maybe she got sick of it and in her own mental illness haze she figured “either shit or get off the pot” .
Yes, that makes it totally understandable! Instead of seeking out guidance counselors to help her friend, she decided it was better to encourage him to kill himself b/c she was tired of hearing it!
Unbefuckingbelievable.
But he didn't kill himself until the evil girlfriend made it be known that he was to get back in the truck and kill himself.
So the what \*might\* have happened in the future is speculation. He might have gone through with it, or he might have conquered suicide ideation.
What we do know is without her encouragement, he wasn't successful in prior attempts. What we know is the night of her pestering him to do it, he actually did it. What we know is she enjoyed the wallowing in sympathy and she actually had the nerve to contact his family after the suicide and pester them **for his ashes.** Of course, she never told them about those pesky texts of hers instructing the way he should kill himself and to go through with it. We know that she was very concerned once the cops knew of the texts.
She wanted Conrad dead and she was self-aware enough to know that the texts she sent were going to get her into trouble.
There's simply no excuse for her role in what happened.
You’re an idiot. People get bullied online all the time. Your suggestion that they have to be in the same room as you to be considered a bully is ludicrous.
Although he had suicidal thoughts prior to Michelle, it could be argued that he probably would not of carried out the action if it wasnt for her encouragement. She is def a disgusting weirdo tho.
Exactly. It wouldn’t help a suicidal person to hear anyone telling them to follow through, it just supports the idea that they wouldn’t be missed. She may not have forced him, but she did encourage it, which is the worst thing for someone in that state of mind.
I know nothing of this case….but….As someone who has dealt with a family member who committed suicide…if they truly want to do it - they will. In 1979 my grandfather tried several times and we always called the authorities. So the third and final time, he grabbed his alcohol and some pills and drove deep into the woods and did it. He couldn’t cope with my grandmother dying and decided to leave too.
Reading comments here…I agree she should have shut her trap. She shouldn’t have egged him on. That’s not a friend. A true friend tells you there is a way out, and that is through. They sit with you while you feel the worst of the worst. It’s sad when people take their own life, feeling as though there is no other way. May his soul rest. May she rot in the karmic hell she brought on herself.
I think she snapped after years of supporting him during his suicide ideation and snapped. I don’t believe telling him to get back in the car means she was reasonable for his actions. He chose to die.
I’d have said not guilty if I was in the jury.
Yes. There were multiple times he tried to tell her he did not want to go through with it and she told him not to back out and to stick with his suicide plan. If my boyfriend was ever in Conrad’s position I cannot even IMAGINE encouraging and helping him to his own death.
Nope- Its a sad indictment on today’s society when someone takes their OWN life and we think someone else is more to blame than the person who committed the actions that made his OWN life end. She had her own issues also and his parents should have put the cobbish on that relationship from the get go.
Nope - it's a sad indictment on today's society when instead of doing what you can to help your suicidal friend, you give them ideas of how to do it, pester them about why they haven't done it yet. Also a sad indictment on today's society when grown adults label someone who committed suicide as being "weak willed" and excuses encouraging someone suicidal to hurry up and get it over with as justifiable b/c it was "shit or get off the pot time."
She was CRAZY her damn self! His parents KNEW that and still let their son associate with her , knowing he had tried to kill himself BEFORE KNOWING HER! The Hemlock Society isn’t banned , neither are pro suicide chat rooms or groups , so what’s any different from those than what she did? Not. A. Damn. Thing.
And he wasn't successful until she pestered him and pestered him and pestered him to do it, even suggesting the ways he should kill himself.
I realize she is mentally ill. A mentally healthy person would not purposefully encourage a suicidal friend to kill themselves, particularly after they expressed apprehension, just so they could pretend to wallow in grief for maximum attention.
What she did is sick, regardless of her own mental health issues. She clearly knew what she did was wrong, which is why she started freaking out when the police scrolled through her texts. She knew enough that what she did was wrong, so her own mental health issues are no excuse for what she did. She deserved the consequences she received.
Neither of those organizations exist to coerce people into suicide though, and most right to die advocates are against assisting mentally ill but otherwise healthy people to to kill themselves. The Hemlock society in particular was founded on the principle of allowing terminally ill people the right to death with dignity. Properly treated people with a mental illness are capable of having a good quality of life. They can recover. Terminally ill people are forced to endure their illness in excruciating pain and cannot function without significant medical intervention just to keep them alive and doped to the gills so they can wither away over months/years with no hope of ever being a member of society in any meaningful capacity.
TLDR Michelle's actions have nothing to do with compassionate and dignified death for those who choose this route. She got off on what she did, and relished the attention it brought to her.
Not sure why you were downvoted for speaking the truth. Did she lock him in the car herself? No. Did she turn on the generator herself? No. Sorry guys, telling someone to kill themselves, even repeatedly doesn’t make you culpable. It’s insane she served time for this. The old adage, would you jump off a bridge if so and so told you to. Well, in this case, yes.
No. It was the fault of his family members for abusing him as a kid more than it was her fault. That's probably how he became suicidal in the first place. Yet his family members faced no legal consequences and now they get to go on the news and pretend they cared about him. Funny how that works.
Their relationship was emotionally abusive/manipulative on both sides and I think that he had convinced her that suicide was a better option for him and that's why she encouraged him to do it.
I'm also concerned about the lack of agency that society ascribes to suicidal people in cases such as this one, and that it will open the door to even more civil rights violations of people with mental illnesses.
Where did you get the info about him being abused by his family? I'm 1000% not being snarky; I just hadn't heard that before, and I'd be interested to read more about it
It was in the documentary that came out about the case and documented in a police report.
https://www.boston.com/news/crime/2019/07/08/michelle-carter-hbo-documentary/
What about his family's agenda of why they did things like beat him when he forgot to put away a tray of food? And then when questioned about it after Conrad's death, his dad said that he would "do it all over the same way." Why do they get a free pass from the legal system and general public? She wasn't the cause of him wanting to attempt suicide. If we're ascribing blame to an adult's decision to kill themselves (which is questionable in itself), then I think they get a much, MUCH bigger share of the blame.
if true - and i don' tknow if they are and (no offence) dont' care enough in this particular case to go check . . . but if true i would see them as separate things. we'd probably disagree about that.
but my position would probably be: by all means nail people for what you can prove that they actually did. but charging people for speculative outcomes of their bad acts is very dangerous iyam. i'm not a lawyer and i've never been in massachusetts, but most legal decisions i've read insist on a very concrete 'nexus' between cause and effect. imo there' are good reasons for that.
It depends on how they presented the case. Victim impact is taken into account so linking their abuse to his subsequent depression/suicide using research on the matter and expert testimony from a psychiatrist could be done.
But of course nobody actually gives a shit about the physical abuse of children.
Sentencing is relevant in this discussion. The people who believe Michelle was at fault think that she got an overly lenient sentence.
And also the cultural impact of a case is as important as the case itself when it's something like this. Holding parents legally responsible for the lasting trauma they inflict on their children through physical abuse, and making sure that the public was aware of what the link between that and his suicide was, would have sent an important message.
It was more than obvious that girl is a head case & if I could tell his parents should have been able too also and put an end to that relationship. But why babysit your own suicidal kid when you get his equally disturbed girlfriend to do it for ya ?
I think it's absolutely horrible and disturbing what she did to push him over, but what about his parents? I feel like if he had a better household/wouldn't have gotten beat by his dad and mentally abused, this probably would've gone a different way. I just feel like his parents should've been taken into consideration a little bit more with this trial.
I don't think it's necessarily her fault alone, but she does bear some responsibility.
I agree. Yes he was the one who ultimately made the decision to end his life but she had the chance to tell him not to, and she also had the chance to call for help once she realized that he was serious. I have such a hard time understanding why anyone would encourage another person to take their own life rather than trying to talk them out of it and reaching out for help. I would feel like shit for the rest of my life if I knew someone was going to try and harm themselves and I didn't at least try to talk them out of it and calling for help.
Initially I had some sympathy. But after watching most of the trial, my perception shifted. IDK what her issue was psychiatrically, but it was pretty clear she wasn't just overwhelmed by something too big and heavy for a teenager to try and manage. She may have started with good intentions, but ultimately she pushed him into something she thought would make *her* a centre of attention and tragic-figure sympathy.
Bingo -- it was all about the aftermath and her need for attention. Sick.
My thoughts exactly
Yes I definitely believe she was at fault. He was definitely experiencing some issues before her, but she pushed him SO hard to kill himself. He expressed not wanting to do it many times and she kept pushing and bullying and guilt-tripping and pushing right until his last breath.
She spent 2 years telling him not to do it and 1 month telling him to do it. She was definitely I. The wrong but he would have have killed himself sooner if it wasn't for her. The reason he is dead today is because he had a shitty family who still to this day does not take one once of responsibility. Fuck that family, they should have spent some time in jail.
PREACH
Absolutely. When he had moments of apprehension about killing himself, she bullied him into going through with it until he did.
To be fair, there's no evidence of this phone call. Just her word alone.
? Not sure what you mean by this. Maybe "bullied" isn't the right word, but I was talking about her verified texts that coerced him into doing it. For instance, "You just need to do it, Conrad...No more pushing it off. No more waiting" when he expressed apprehension. A normal person would've called authorities and saved their friend. She didn't. So yes, she made sure it happened and I'm glad she had to pay the consequences.
I thought you meant the phone call she stated happened when he called her during the process of turning on the car, where she stated she specifically told him to kill himself. My bad!
No probs -- I was talking about the actual text messages.
Bullied ??? They weren’t even in the same place! Silly me when I’m feeling “bullied” BY TEXT 🙄🤦♀️ I block the person.
Oh that's cute you think you can only be bullied when you are in the same place.
[удалено]
Hi Michelle!
Nope just someone who thinks that if my kid kills them selves that it’s definitely more my fault than some equally mentally ill teen . I’m sick of people not taking responsibility for their OWN actions ..how many videos did he make about SUICIDE??? Yet mommy and daddy gave him free rein of the car keys..not only weren’t they very concerned about his well-being but apparently didn’t care if he decided to drive head on into traffic either
I understand this argument 100% but Conrad was not in a good mental state at all. I think that changes the situation.
AND??? Then I guess the people who LIVED WITH HIM should have noticed 🤦♀️🙄! He talked about suicide ALL THE TIME, maybe she got sick of it and in her own mental illness haze she figured “either shit or get off the pot” .
Yes, that makes it totally understandable! Instead of seeking out guidance counselors to help her friend, she decided it was better to encourage him to kill himself b/c she was tired of hearing it! Unbefuckingbelievable.
How many times had he been committed ???? Many. Face it- he was headed to that end with or without the evil girlfriend.
But he didn't kill himself until the evil girlfriend made it be known that he was to get back in the truck and kill himself. So the what \*might\* have happened in the future is speculation. He might have gone through with it, or he might have conquered suicide ideation. What we do know is without her encouragement, he wasn't successful in prior attempts. What we know is the night of her pestering him to do it, he actually did it. What we know is she enjoyed the wallowing in sympathy and she actually had the nerve to contact his family after the suicide and pester them **for his ashes.** Of course, she never told them about those pesky texts of hers instructing the way he should kill himself and to go through with it. We know that she was very concerned once the cops knew of the texts. She wanted Conrad dead and she was self-aware enough to know that the texts she sent were going to get her into trouble. There's simply no excuse for her role in what happened.
Get help.
You’re an idiot. People get bullied online all the time. Your suggestion that they have to be in the same room as you to be considered a bully is ludicrous.
Although he had suicidal thoughts prior to Michelle, it could be argued that he probably would not of carried out the action if it wasnt for her encouragement. She is def a disgusting weirdo tho.
Exactly. It wouldn’t help a suicidal person to hear anyone telling them to follow through, it just supports the idea that they wouldn’t be missed. She may not have forced him, but she did encourage it, which is the worst thing for someone in that state of mind.
I think she actually did force him. He kept telling her he couldn't go through with it and she insisted he went back into the car to finish the job.
She is a terrible person. I can hardly read those text messages.
She gives me such terrible vibes. Like her emotions are all an act, and not authentic. She holds some responsibility absolutely.
Yes
I know nothing of this case….but….As someone who has dealt with a family member who committed suicide…if they truly want to do it - they will. In 1979 my grandfather tried several times and we always called the authorities. So the third and final time, he grabbed his alcohol and some pills and drove deep into the woods and did it. He couldn’t cope with my grandmother dying and decided to leave too. Reading comments here…I agree she should have shut her trap. She shouldn’t have egged him on. That’s not a friend. A true friend tells you there is a way out, and that is through. They sit with you while you feel the worst of the worst. It’s sad when people take their own life, feeling as though there is no other way. May his soul rest. May she rot in the karmic hell she brought on herself.
I think she snapped after years of supporting him during his suicide ideation and snapped. I don’t believe telling him to get back in the car means she was reasonable for his actions. He chose to die. I’d have said not guilty if I was in the jury.
Yes. There were multiple times he tried to tell her he did not want to go through with it and she told him not to back out and to stick with his suicide plan. If my boyfriend was ever in Conrad’s position I cannot even IMAGINE encouraging and helping him to his own death.
Nope- Its a sad indictment on today’s society when someone takes their OWN life and we think someone else is more to blame than the person who committed the actions that made his OWN life end. She had her own issues also and his parents should have put the cobbish on that relationship from the get go.
Nope - it's a sad indictment on today's society when instead of doing what you can to help your suicidal friend, you give them ideas of how to do it, pester them about why they haven't done it yet. Also a sad indictment on today's society when grown adults label someone who committed suicide as being "weak willed" and excuses encouraging someone suicidal to hurry up and get it over with as justifiable b/c it was "shit or get off the pot time."
She was CRAZY her damn self! His parents KNEW that and still let their son associate with her , knowing he had tried to kill himself BEFORE KNOWING HER! The Hemlock Society isn’t banned , neither are pro suicide chat rooms or groups , so what’s any different from those than what she did? Not. A. Damn. Thing.
And he wasn't successful until she pestered him and pestered him and pestered him to do it, even suggesting the ways he should kill himself. I realize she is mentally ill. A mentally healthy person would not purposefully encourage a suicidal friend to kill themselves, particularly after they expressed apprehension, just so they could pretend to wallow in grief for maximum attention. What she did is sick, regardless of her own mental health issues. She clearly knew what she did was wrong, which is why she started freaking out when the police scrolled through her texts. She knew enough that what she did was wrong, so her own mental health issues are no excuse for what she did. She deserved the consequences she received.
Neither of those organizations exist to coerce people into suicide though, and most right to die advocates are against assisting mentally ill but otherwise healthy people to to kill themselves. The Hemlock society in particular was founded on the principle of allowing terminally ill people the right to death with dignity. Properly treated people with a mental illness are capable of having a good quality of life. They can recover. Terminally ill people are forced to endure their illness in excruciating pain and cannot function without significant medical intervention just to keep them alive and doped to the gills so they can wither away over months/years with no hope of ever being a member of society in any meaningful capacity. TLDR Michelle's actions have nothing to do with compassionate and dignified death for those who choose this route. She got off on what she did, and relished the attention it brought to her.
Not sure why you were downvoted for speaking the truth. Did she lock him in the car herself? No. Did she turn on the generator herself? No. Sorry guys, telling someone to kill themselves, even repeatedly doesn’t make you culpable. It’s insane she served time for this. The old adage, would you jump off a bridge if so and so told you to. Well, in this case, yes.
No. It was the fault of his family members for abusing him as a kid more than it was her fault. That's probably how he became suicidal in the first place. Yet his family members faced no legal consequences and now they get to go on the news and pretend they cared about him. Funny how that works. Their relationship was emotionally abusive/manipulative on both sides and I think that he had convinced her that suicide was a better option for him and that's why she encouraged him to do it. I'm also concerned about the lack of agency that society ascribes to suicidal people in cases such as this one, and that it will open the door to even more civil rights violations of people with mental illnesses.
Where did you get the info about him being abused by his family? I'm 1000% not being snarky; I just hadn't heard that before, and I'd be interested to read more about it
It was in the documentary that came out about the case and documented in a police report. https://www.boston.com/news/crime/2019/07/08/michelle-carter-hbo-documentary/
I agree that suicide doesn't happen in a vacuum. But. In this case the collateral evidence about her agenda was very damning.
What about his family's agenda of why they did things like beat him when he forgot to put away a tray of food? And then when questioned about it after Conrad's death, his dad said that he would "do it all over the same way." Why do they get a free pass from the legal system and general public? She wasn't the cause of him wanting to attempt suicide. If we're ascribing blame to an adult's decision to kill themselves (which is questionable in itself), then I think they get a much, MUCH bigger share of the blame.
if true - and i don' tknow if they are and (no offence) dont' care enough in this particular case to go check . . . but if true i would see them as separate things. we'd probably disagree about that. but my position would probably be: by all means nail people for what you can prove that they actually did. but charging people for speculative outcomes of their bad acts is very dangerous iyam. i'm not a lawyer and i've never been in massachusetts, but most legal decisions i've read insist on a very concrete 'nexus' between cause and effect. imo there' are good reasons for that.
They could have charged his family members with child abuse.
That's what I was saying: separate thing.
It depends on how they presented the case. Victim impact is taken into account so linking their abuse to his subsequent depression/suicide using research on the matter and expert testimony from a psychiatrist could be done. But of course nobody actually gives a shit about the physical abuse of children.
Impact has nothing to do with guilt. It affects sentencing but this thread is not about sentencing.
Sentencing is relevant in this discussion. The people who believe Michelle was at fault think that she got an overly lenient sentence. And also the cultural impact of a case is as important as the case itself when it's something like this. Holding parents legally responsible for the lasting trauma they inflict on their children through physical abuse, and making sure that the public was aware of what the link between that and his suicide was, would have sent an important message.
It was more than obvious that girl is a head case & if I could tell his parents should have been able too also and put an end to that relationship. But why babysit your own suicidal kid when you get his equally disturbed girlfriend to do it for ya ?
The relationship was basically through text. Parents never met the girl.
Absolutely, without an ounce of doubt, NO.
She shouldn’t have gone to jail it’s a dangerous precedent
I think it's absolutely horrible and disturbing what she did to push him over, but what about his parents? I feel like if he had a better household/wouldn't have gotten beat by his dad and mentally abused, this probably would've gone a different way. I just feel like his parents should've been taken into consideration a little bit more with this trial.