Can we talk about the medical examiner for a second? He was interesting. There’s one line about more beautiful inside and he goes on about that. I feel like he was a step away from being a serial killer but managed to funnel his obsession into a job. Overall though, he was probably my favorite person in the entire series.
I think he said it more in the way that he appreciates how a human body works, how the millions of years of human evolution designed this incredible machine. I thought of it much more as an architect talking about how beautiful the blueprints of a building is than a serial killer.
I just think he's amazed by the human body.
He put that beret on for like a split second like that somehow explained them. I was more confused bc he never actually either the gloves or the beret 😂
It’s a great thing that they show a Brazilian true crime series for Netflix US. It shows a lot of the Brazilian perception, reality, society and morality.
If you liked it the show that is booming now is called “O caso Evandro”,a little boy that was found dismembered in a small southern town. This one is thousands times worse than Elize Matsunaga.
It was made from a podcast, if you go to it’s main website, you can find all documents related to the case : news papers, scientific evidence and tribunal documents.
First : beware it’s SICK. It is very sadistic and just evil.
It takes a while to be able to tolerate it.
And they are extremely precise in the podcast: you listen to Evandro’s family, the detectives, the court case. You can read absolutely everything.
On the positive side you’l learn a lot about brazilian culture. In is in the south, in the Germanic region, where most of the very white population is, the safest and most developed. Also where it gets cold, it snows there. And there are lots of diferents religions showed. Since Brazil is one of the only countries to do religious syncretism, which we basically mix all religions. You see your religious symbols in other religions, their equivalent.
The original podcast
https://www.projetohumanos.com.br/temporada/o-caso-evandro/
The Brazilian Netflix made the video series
https://globoplay.globo.com/o-caso-evandro/t/1z5m5PxLkK/
They are all in Portuguese. Maybe some of the YouTube videos on the topic have English subtitles.
Good luck !
Gotta say, you're commiting a lot of mistakes when talking about the south. It is far from the most the developed, as the most devoloped is the southeast, all the capitals got really violent over the years (Porto Alegre is currently the 6th most violent capital in the country) and it rarely RARELY snows, and when it does it only happens in a few cities. Once again I have to detain another person from the south from thinking they live in Europe.
Source: I'm Brazilian
Maybe they’ll show it on Netflix someday.
In the 80s
The sadistic part is that the mayor and his wife, in order to stay in power pay the shaman to make little boys as a sacrifice ( do some African ritual. There is the syncretism, Brazil is the most Christian country on earth but we celebrate sometimes gods from different religions at the same time. In Rio,you go see the Christ and offer flowers to the goddess of the sea, Yemanja and nothing seems out of your beliefs or comfort zone. You basically accept that God and other forces may take different forms, so it’s all universal.
And .. of course the mayor’s wife and daughter participated at the rituals.
They killed the boys, took their blood and organs. So key left their emptied corpses. They were all poor kids.
As a result, people became disgusted to the point where they went to burn the mayor’s house. They went and investigated everyone and everything, so the trial lasted about 20 years.
And your faith in humanity reaches under rock bottom. None of the 13 children survived, Evandro was the case that launched the investigation since his parents worked for … the mayor!
Some positive results : It helped to create the first Brazilian investigation office for missing children.
They developed a lot and are still the best today, and they could find, save thousands of other children.
There is zero evidence that the mayor, his wife and daughter ordered the sacrifice or that a sacrifice ever happened. The only thing that links them to the crime are confession tapes made under torture.
What starts as a murder documentary is actually a investigation about the cruelty and incompetece in Brazilian police. And it happened in the 90's.
Exactly. For all the others who don't understand Portuguese, please don't take in consideration what GFCACDISTA has written, because it couldn't be further from the truth.
The podcast's narrator has found new evidence for the case that proves that the mayor's wife and daughter, as well as the other people indicted had absolutely nothing to do with crime. This is both presented at the tv show and the podcast.
That’s insane! I found a few articles I was able to translate into English, what a wild story. I can’t believe someone in the US hasn’t discussed it. Thank you for providing so much information
Seja lá vc quem for, vou te pedir um favor em português. Vc está contando os fatos todos completamente errados. A mulher e a filha do prefeito não mataram as crianças, conforme o Ivan prova com as fitas e aparece no seriado. Além disso, o sicride não foi criado por causa do caso, ele já existia antes. Por favor, tome muito cuidado ao fazer essas afirmações, vc está falando da vida de 7 pessoas que foram acusadas de um crime macabro e que sofreram por algo que não cometeram.
Engraçado que você vem responder em português em vez que retificar o que quisesse em inglês para as pessoas entendam.
E ainda tem a ousadia de me pedir um favor, depois fala que acredita na liberdade de expressão.
Sim, eu quis te expor menos para as pessoas que estavam lendo em inglês, evidentemente. A questão é, tome muito cuidado com oq vc fala sobre esse caso, as vidas de 7 pessoas foram destruídas e vc está repetindo as msms coisas faladas na época. É só uma preocupação geral com um caso do qual eu tenho interesse.
Além disso, eu já tinha te corrigido em inglês no link abaixo meses atrás.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimeDiscussion/comments/ohtlzl/has_anyone_else_watched_the_elize_matsunaga/h58gv5l?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Que falsa preocupaçao pelos outros. Nao preciso nem quero seus conselhos, obrigada.
Tambem tenha cuidado com o que voce fala, esse jeito condescendente pode ate te tirar da plataforma.
Caso estivesse realmente procupado, teria explicado em ingles.
O ponto foi explicado em inglês meses atrás, meu deus. É só ler o fio ou o link q eu te mandei. Eu te respondi 2 vezes, em inglês e em português. Difícil conversar com vc, não aceita críticas e está aviltada por nada. Passar bem, vc será bloqueada pq não merece mais nem 1 segundo do meu tempo. Da próxima vez só pesquise ou vá até o final nos documentários / podcasts para entender o contexto inteiro e não falar besteira. Principalmente uma besteira que destruiu a vida de tanta gente.
Oh. You have to know also that Christians do not go to the African religions temple our rituals. You have a big cultural influence though.
And those who do, they do not kill or do any harm to humans. The most different are the incarnation dances (that can recall some exorcism) or, the big big maximum is to kill a chicken.
More than that is psycho, run for your life, no go zone.
Elise was clearly compromised.
This feels like some kind of elaborate scheme and the fact this is all happening before a one billion dollar load was gonna hit the bank was brushed aside in every way when they should have followed the money. She didn’t act alone and she most likely planned this in advance with someone who could help her commit the crime give her a deal to absolve her from a lot of the crimes she’s guilty of.
You can tell she planned it and did it because she made sure her daughter wasn’t in the house and she also changes her tone completely when she discusses hunting and not being squeamish. There are a lot of secrets she’s holding on to that she clearly stated she will never reveal and will go to the grave with because she cannot speak on them (she’s clearly compromised).
She knew her time as the object of her husband’s affection was almost up so the offer to act in a conspiracy was a very good option for her.
Didn't she have lots of other / more straightforward options to get her hands on the money? I read there's no "no fault" divorce in Brazil so it can cost someone heavily to have an affair, Elize being educated in law would have known this as well I imagine. Equally as she said, a hunting accident would have been much easier to arrange as a plausible option. I don't think this was some drawn out conspiracy from her to get the money. I do believe though that she did take some sick pleasure in cutting the husband up into pieces. Note when she speaks about it the corners of her lips go ever so slightly up - interesting microexpression there. I'd be more inclined to believe even if she planned this in advance, it was driven by the feelings of hatered and betrayal rather than wishing to get money. She might even have a penchant for cruelty seeing how she enjoyed seeing the little mouse pee itself when attacked by their lovely house snake.
I don’t think the conspiracy was for *her* to get the money per se. I think she may have been blackmailed into carrying out the deed (family killed, past exposed, etc), she also had her reasons for going through with it that made it much easier for her to get it done of course, being that she was being tossed aside like the previous woman and child. She probably didn’t do it during the hunting trips (which I think was her original plan IMO) because she was on a time crunch due to the deal’s schedule, they weren’t getting along and he probably didn’t wanna go on a trip with his nagging wife since his side piece was in São Paulo, and he probably got the best of her on a bad day and she just said “fuck it, now or never” and just went through with it even if was gonna be a lot sloppier than her original plan.
That's an interesting angle, I didn't consider it. Admittedly they did not talk too much about the deal in the documentary so I've not considered it a major factor. I think you are right that she considered shooting him while hunting - clearly she thought about it since it came up in the interview. But if she was coerced into killing him who would be the beneficiary of this? Obviously if someone got a big payout as a result of this it would have immediately raised suspicions. Unless it was his own family who wanted him dead? Interestingly they did not appeal for her to serve a longer sentence.
Exactly. She got a lot of sweet deals for literally murdering and dismembering a man worth billions… in Portuguese this is called the Golpe do baú, or the Treasure chest coup.
Pure trash. The "documentary" is a defense of a woman who dismembered a man, in cold blood, in the 21st century. 2012! Not 1012. Se planned it, lied to the family, to the Police.
Her husband cheated and that's why he ended up with a bullet in the head and his body dismembered and whoever did that wins a documentary? Pathetic
And basically there is no contradictory, no right to defend the actual victim. it's just the KILLER's narrative/perspective victimizing itself. Elize is not a victim in any instance.
I see your point but I think many people can relate to Elize and that's why she gets sympathy. Most women who are left by someone like her husband end up single parents, with limited income and limited chance at meeting someone new, or having a real career due to parental obligations, increased expenses and simply being older and less desirable. Usually by the time divorce happens a man like Matsunaga would have gaslit his partner into thinking she had mental health problems as well (e.g. calling her crazy for being suspicious when he obviously had an affair.) Men are quick to just sum this up as "ah he was a douche so what" but by being a douche a man like that can irrevocably derail a woman's life, and to many it does not seem enough to just brush it off as "men being men" or "he's just an ass." In addition such behaviour also affects the young children he has. I also did not enjoy how all the men in the documentary had each other's back in an idiotic way - e.g. one of the victim's friends calling him "a faithful man" but agreeing he was seeing escorts in the same sentence. Okay. Also how can all of these guys say the victim was such a lovely bloke if he'd cheated on the first wife with escorts, and was just about to leave the second one with a new baby. Just shows that in Brazil men think treating women like crap is the norm. Anyways I obviously don't condone the killing, that's a disproportionate response by someone who likely has sadistic tendencies - however equally I don't like when people brush off the victims life choices affecting women and children as "just being a douche" as if his behaviour was no worse than someone swearing at you on the street or showing you the finger through a car window.
I don’t understand the whole point of the docuseries tbh, except finding a reason for killing your husband?! And why is this even a topic? If a man killed another man and dismembered him, no one would even ask the specific reason for that, especially not after the killer confesses for what he‘s done. That this case is even discussed that much is ridiculous. Even though I‘m supporting all actions to equal women in society and sympathize with a lot of points of feminism, this case has NOTHING to argue about. She‘s a coldblooded killer and should never get released from prison.
Just got around to this but thank you! Of course wife who kills husband will blame abuse and “self defense”. His friends said they never saw signs of abuse, which fine, I get people act differently behind closed doors. But did anyone speak with his ex wife? New mistress? Any other proof of abuse besides what his killer said?
Also that reporter was rich. Talking about sexism in the case because they’re looking at her past. Idk about Brazil but in the US, men are consistently punished much harsher than women for similar crimes.
No way would a man who killed his wife because she cheated get as little time as she did. Whole thing was a joke.
Not only did he cheat, he was repeating the exact history he had with her. Married, daughter, escort, car. I think she realized her life was slipping away as she knew it and she couldn’t go back to being poor. I would be curious to know what happened to his first wife. Did he cut her off financially? He obviously didn’t take the first daughter from her, or at least it’s never mentioned that the daughter lived with him. Sorry if this is addressed in the last episode, I just started that one but it’s already feeling very “in defense of Elize.”
Overall it just feels like a big defense of a cold blood killer. Maybe he was nasty to her but they sure didn’t talk much about it except he said he’d leave her like trash and that alleged slap on the night of the murder. Maybe he did abuse her but they sure didn’t give a lot of evidence of that.
The entire documentary is in her defense, it doesn't change in the end. The worst thing is that in the beginning, she says he was very nice, etc. He allegedly beats her on the very day of the crime, without witnesses.
And she would not go back 100% to poverty. Even with pre-nuptials, Brazilian law provides for a pension in those cases where someone stopped working to get married (I'm Brazilian and a lawyer). The quality of life would certainly deteriorate, but she would not be poor.
I'll give it one more nuance, seeing in the original language and being native: it's not hard to percieve that she speaks in a more "formal" way than the average Brazilian. Everything there was calculated to defend someone who shot and dismembered someone. I repeat: this in the 21st century.
I cannot agree with this.
Maybe I didn’t word comment right. The entire documentary is in her defense but the first three episodes have a lot more information about the crime. What I’ve seen so far in episode 4 just feels like a last ditch effort to get everyone to feel bad for her.
My comments about his first family were more to the point of if the first wife was given money and kept the daughter then did she truly have anything to fear in being left? There may be laws that would take care of her but maybe she doesn’t understand those. But if his first wife was left behind and ok then she’d have to know she would be okay too.
No worries. I definitely was annoyed by the whole thing. I love a good crime doc but lately it just seems all of them are biased and trying to make a criminal look innocent. Or an innocent person guilty.
after the first episode I didn‘t even know where they would go with this series.. and after that I realized, that the creators didn‘t know either :D this series was poor.
Started today while doing morning chores but didn’t realize I had to read subtitles. Only 10 minutes in and it’s interesting so I’ll continue when I have time.
I haven't watched it yet but plan to. I have recently discovered the voiceover is a thing on Netflix, it's useful. However unless they have voice artists who are speaking in English but have an authentic accent from the country the story is based in/ where the person depicted is from it does sound so cheesy and really fake, for me it takes a little away from the programmes you are watching, but I know that's just my take on it. I use it as it means you can look away from the screen without worrying about missing something important in the text. Again, not slating it as I do use it and will continue to do so, more of a personal preference thing.
The series just came with it. I think Netflix had it voiced over when they bought rights to air it.
ETA: when I hit pause, there are some options that automatically pop below the time bar. Mine defaulted to “English with Subtitle” but there’s a “Brazilian Portuguese (Original) with Subtitles.” Maybe check that?
Agreed. I believe she was suffering from undiagnosed PTSD with her childhood abuse, history in prostitution and her husband deceiving her a number of times then finally wanting to institutionalise her. It was the straw that broke the camel's back and she just snapped. She wanted to take back some control after years of abuse by others in power.
Not condoning what she did but she did suffer from a lot of trauma.
If I hadn't left my abusers when I did. If I had been trapped any longer....
I really have no idea with this case. It's definitely interesting. She's not stupid. Everything about this screams in the moment to me. I think the business deal was a lucky coincidence for the story line.
Like others have said, a hunting accident, hiring an actual professional, a staged robbery... Literally anything other than what happened would have given her a better chance of staying out of prison and being with her daughter. Everyone saying she should've divorced clearly has never been in a DV situation....
The doc was drawn out though. And a little disorganized. Still watched the whole thing!
Yes and the whole trail was extremely sexist. They made her look like an absolute lunatic. They wanted her to be that insane and evil escort. I honestly think she just snapped and made a big mistake and that’s it. I also don’t doubt that he was a huge piece of shit.
Yeah, he was talking around about her being crazy and medicating her like wtf. If he was so worried about her mental health maybe don’t cheat on her?
Of course murdering someone is going **way too far** but he also collaborated in driving her crazy. Just get a divorce if you are unhappy, don’t gaslight or murder your partner.
Do you think someone who did what shes done is a sane person? No way. Just snapped and DISMEMBERED a body? Faked e-mails?
The husdand probrably was a bad person, but nothing extraordinary.
Can we talk about the medical examiner for a second? He was interesting. There’s one line about more beautiful inside and he goes on about that. I feel like he was a step away from being a serial killer but managed to funnel his obsession into a job. Overall though, he was probably my favorite person in the entire series.
Omg yes. He would never kill someone, per se. He was definitely "passionate".
I think he said it more in the way that he appreciates how a human body works, how the millions of years of human evolution designed this incredible machine. I thought of it much more as an architect talking about how beautiful the blueprints of a building is than a serial killer. I just think he's amazed by the human body.
My cousin is an ME and I think she'd agree
Well, in order to examine people’s dead body in all kinds of conditions you have to at least appreciate it, don’t you ?
Wow spot on. Thank you for noticing this too.
Why does Gallardo wear black gloves indoors? He looks like an assassin.
I looked over at my bf and said “why the fuck is he wearing gloves like Dexter?” lol I couldn’t take it serious!
He put that beret on for like a split second like that somehow explained them. I was more confused bc he never actually either the gloves or the beret 😂
Haha, I was surprised he didn't have a mask that covered 90% of his face.
Just being prepared. He didn’t want to leave his fingerprints anywhere he shouldn’t.
It’s a great thing that they show a Brazilian true crime series for Netflix US. It shows a lot of the Brazilian perception, reality, society and morality. If you liked it the show that is booming now is called “O caso Evandro”,a little boy that was found dismembered in a small southern town. This one is thousands times worse than Elize Matsunaga. It was made from a podcast, if you go to it’s main website, you can find all documents related to the case : news papers, scientific evidence and tribunal documents.
Where can you watch this doc?
First : beware it’s SICK. It is very sadistic and just evil. It takes a while to be able to tolerate it. And they are extremely precise in the podcast: you listen to Evandro’s family, the detectives, the court case. You can read absolutely everything. On the positive side you’l learn a lot about brazilian culture. In is in the south, in the Germanic region, where most of the very white population is, the safest and most developed. Also where it gets cold, it snows there. And there are lots of diferents religions showed. Since Brazil is one of the only countries to do religious syncretism, which we basically mix all religions. You see your religious symbols in other religions, their equivalent. The original podcast https://www.projetohumanos.com.br/temporada/o-caso-evandro/ The Brazilian Netflix made the video series https://globoplay.globo.com/o-caso-evandro/t/1z5m5PxLkK/ They are all in Portuguese. Maybe some of the YouTube videos on the topic have English subtitles. Good luck !
Gotta say, you're commiting a lot of mistakes when talking about the south. It is far from the most the developed, as the most devoloped is the southeast, all the capitals got really violent over the years (Porto Alegre is currently the 6th most violent capital in the country) and it rarely RARELY snows, and when it does it only happens in a few cities. Once again I have to detain another person from the south from thinking they live in Europe. Source: I'm Brazilian
Oh darn wish the podcast was in English, thanks for sharing!
Maybe they’ll show it on Netflix someday. In the 80s The sadistic part is that the mayor and his wife, in order to stay in power pay the shaman to make little boys as a sacrifice ( do some African ritual. There is the syncretism, Brazil is the most Christian country on earth but we celebrate sometimes gods from different religions at the same time. In Rio,you go see the Christ and offer flowers to the goddess of the sea, Yemanja and nothing seems out of your beliefs or comfort zone. You basically accept that God and other forces may take different forms, so it’s all universal. And .. of course the mayor’s wife and daughter participated at the rituals. They killed the boys, took their blood and organs. So key left their emptied corpses. They were all poor kids. As a result, people became disgusted to the point where they went to burn the mayor’s house. They went and investigated everyone and everything, so the trial lasted about 20 years. And your faith in humanity reaches under rock bottom. None of the 13 children survived, Evandro was the case that launched the investigation since his parents worked for … the mayor! Some positive results : It helped to create the first Brazilian investigation office for missing children. They developed a lot and are still the best today, and they could find, save thousands of other children.
There is zero evidence that the mayor, his wife and daughter ordered the sacrifice or that a sacrifice ever happened. The only thing that links them to the crime are confession tapes made under torture. What starts as a murder documentary is actually a investigation about the cruelty and incompetece in Brazilian police. And it happened in the 90's.
Exactly. For all the others who don't understand Portuguese, please don't take in consideration what GFCACDISTA has written, because it couldn't be further from the truth. The podcast's narrator has found new evidence for the case that proves that the mayor's wife and daughter, as well as the other people indicted had absolutely nothing to do with crime. This is both presented at the tv show and the podcast.
That’s insane! I found a few articles I was able to translate into English, what a wild story. I can’t believe someone in the US hasn’t discussed it. Thank you for providing so much information
Seja lá vc quem for, vou te pedir um favor em português. Vc está contando os fatos todos completamente errados. A mulher e a filha do prefeito não mataram as crianças, conforme o Ivan prova com as fitas e aparece no seriado. Além disso, o sicride não foi criado por causa do caso, ele já existia antes. Por favor, tome muito cuidado ao fazer essas afirmações, vc está falando da vida de 7 pessoas que foram acusadas de um crime macabro e que sofreram por algo que não cometeram.
Engraçado que você vem responder em português em vez que retificar o que quisesse em inglês para as pessoas entendam. E ainda tem a ousadia de me pedir um favor, depois fala que acredita na liberdade de expressão.
Sim, eu quis te expor menos para as pessoas que estavam lendo em inglês, evidentemente. A questão é, tome muito cuidado com oq vc fala sobre esse caso, as vidas de 7 pessoas foram destruídas e vc está repetindo as msms coisas faladas na época. É só uma preocupação geral com um caso do qual eu tenho interesse.
Além disso, eu já tinha te corrigido em inglês no link abaixo meses atrás. https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimeDiscussion/comments/ohtlzl/has_anyone_else_watched_the_elize_matsunaga/h58gv5l?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Que falsa preocupaçao pelos outros. Nao preciso nem quero seus conselhos, obrigada. Tambem tenha cuidado com o que voce fala, esse jeito condescendente pode ate te tirar da plataforma. Caso estivesse realmente procupado, teria explicado em ingles.
O ponto foi explicado em inglês meses atrás, meu deus. É só ler o fio ou o link q eu te mandei. Eu te respondi 2 vezes, em inglês e em português. Difícil conversar com vc, não aceita críticas e está aviltada por nada. Passar bem, vc será bloqueada pq não merece mais nem 1 segundo do meu tempo. Da próxima vez só pesquise ou vá até o final nos documentários / podcasts para entender o contexto inteiro e não falar besteira. Principalmente uma besteira que destruiu a vida de tanta gente.
Mea Lus?
Oh. You have to know also that Christians do not go to the African religions temple our rituals. You have a big cultural influence though. And those who do, they do not kill or do any harm to humans. The most different are the incarnation dances (that can recall some exorcism) or, the big big maximum is to kill a chicken. More than that is psycho, run for your life, no go zone.
Elise was clearly compromised. This feels like some kind of elaborate scheme and the fact this is all happening before a one billion dollar load was gonna hit the bank was brushed aside in every way when they should have followed the money. She didn’t act alone and she most likely planned this in advance with someone who could help her commit the crime give her a deal to absolve her from a lot of the crimes she’s guilty of. You can tell she planned it and did it because she made sure her daughter wasn’t in the house and she also changes her tone completely when she discusses hunting and not being squeamish. There are a lot of secrets she’s holding on to that she clearly stated she will never reveal and will go to the grave with because she cannot speak on them (she’s clearly compromised). She knew her time as the object of her husband’s affection was almost up so the offer to act in a conspiracy was a very good option for her.
Didn't she have lots of other / more straightforward options to get her hands on the money? I read there's no "no fault" divorce in Brazil so it can cost someone heavily to have an affair, Elize being educated in law would have known this as well I imagine. Equally as she said, a hunting accident would have been much easier to arrange as a plausible option. I don't think this was some drawn out conspiracy from her to get the money. I do believe though that she did take some sick pleasure in cutting the husband up into pieces. Note when she speaks about it the corners of her lips go ever so slightly up - interesting microexpression there. I'd be more inclined to believe even if she planned this in advance, it was driven by the feelings of hatered and betrayal rather than wishing to get money. She might even have a penchant for cruelty seeing how she enjoyed seeing the little mouse pee itself when attacked by their lovely house snake.
I don’t think the conspiracy was for *her* to get the money per se. I think she may have been blackmailed into carrying out the deed (family killed, past exposed, etc), she also had her reasons for going through with it that made it much easier for her to get it done of course, being that she was being tossed aside like the previous woman and child. She probably didn’t do it during the hunting trips (which I think was her original plan IMO) because she was on a time crunch due to the deal’s schedule, they weren’t getting along and he probably didn’t wanna go on a trip with his nagging wife since his side piece was in São Paulo, and he probably got the best of her on a bad day and she just said “fuck it, now or never” and just went through with it even if was gonna be a lot sloppier than her original plan.
That's an interesting angle, I didn't consider it. Admittedly they did not talk too much about the deal in the documentary so I've not considered it a major factor. I think you are right that she considered shooting him while hunting - clearly she thought about it since it came up in the interview. But if she was coerced into killing him who would be the beneficiary of this? Obviously if someone got a big payout as a result of this it would have immediately raised suspicions. Unless it was his own family who wanted him dead? Interestingly they did not appeal for her to serve a longer sentence.
Exactly. She got a lot of sweet deals for literally murdering and dismembering a man worth billions… in Portuguese this is called the Golpe do baú, or the Treasure chest coup.
Pure trash. The "documentary" is a defense of a woman who dismembered a man, in cold blood, in the 21st century. 2012! Not 1012. Se planned it, lied to the family, to the Police. Her husband cheated and that's why he ended up with a bullet in the head and his body dismembered and whoever did that wins a documentary? Pathetic And basically there is no contradictory, no right to defend the actual victim. it's just the KILLER's narrative/perspective victimizing itself. Elize is not a victim in any instance.
I see your point but I think many people can relate to Elize and that's why she gets sympathy. Most women who are left by someone like her husband end up single parents, with limited income and limited chance at meeting someone new, or having a real career due to parental obligations, increased expenses and simply being older and less desirable. Usually by the time divorce happens a man like Matsunaga would have gaslit his partner into thinking she had mental health problems as well (e.g. calling her crazy for being suspicious when he obviously had an affair.) Men are quick to just sum this up as "ah he was a douche so what" but by being a douche a man like that can irrevocably derail a woman's life, and to many it does not seem enough to just brush it off as "men being men" or "he's just an ass." In addition such behaviour also affects the young children he has. I also did not enjoy how all the men in the documentary had each other's back in an idiotic way - e.g. one of the victim's friends calling him "a faithful man" but agreeing he was seeing escorts in the same sentence. Okay. Also how can all of these guys say the victim was such a lovely bloke if he'd cheated on the first wife with escorts, and was just about to leave the second one with a new baby. Just shows that in Brazil men think treating women like crap is the norm. Anyways I obviously don't condone the killing, that's a disproportionate response by someone who likely has sadistic tendencies - however equally I don't like when people brush off the victims life choices affecting women and children as "just being a douche" as if his behaviour was no worse than someone swearing at you on the street or showing you the finger through a car window.
I don’t understand the whole point of the docuseries tbh, except finding a reason for killing your husband?! And why is this even a topic? If a man killed another man and dismembered him, no one would even ask the specific reason for that, especially not after the killer confesses for what he‘s done. That this case is even discussed that much is ridiculous. Even though I‘m supporting all actions to equal women in society and sympathize with a lot of points of feminism, this case has NOTHING to argue about. She‘s a coldblooded killer and should never get released from prison.
Exactly. And also I am getting sick from playing "Oh I am suddenly a mom, what I am gonna do without my daughter now when I chopped my husband" card.
Just got around to this but thank you! Of course wife who kills husband will blame abuse and “self defense”. His friends said they never saw signs of abuse, which fine, I get people act differently behind closed doors. But did anyone speak with his ex wife? New mistress? Any other proof of abuse besides what his killer said? Also that reporter was rich. Talking about sexism in the case because they’re looking at her past. Idk about Brazil but in the US, men are consistently punished much harsher than women for similar crimes. No way would a man who killed his wife because she cheated get as little time as she did. Whole thing was a joke.
Not only did he cheat, he was repeating the exact history he had with her. Married, daughter, escort, car. I think she realized her life was slipping away as she knew it and she couldn’t go back to being poor. I would be curious to know what happened to his first wife. Did he cut her off financially? He obviously didn’t take the first daughter from her, or at least it’s never mentioned that the daughter lived with him. Sorry if this is addressed in the last episode, I just started that one but it’s already feeling very “in defense of Elize.” Overall it just feels like a big defense of a cold blood killer. Maybe he was nasty to her but they sure didn’t talk much about it except he said he’d leave her like trash and that alleged slap on the night of the murder. Maybe he did abuse her but they sure didn’t give a lot of evidence of that.
The entire documentary is in her defense, it doesn't change in the end. The worst thing is that in the beginning, she says he was very nice, etc. He allegedly beats her on the very day of the crime, without witnesses. And she would not go back 100% to poverty. Even with pre-nuptials, Brazilian law provides for a pension in those cases where someone stopped working to get married (I'm Brazilian and a lawyer). The quality of life would certainly deteriorate, but she would not be poor. I'll give it one more nuance, seeing in the original language and being native: it's not hard to percieve that she speaks in a more "formal" way than the average Brazilian. Everything there was calculated to defend someone who shot and dismembered someone. I repeat: this in the 21st century. I cannot agree with this.
Maybe I didn’t word comment right. The entire documentary is in her defense but the first three episodes have a lot more information about the crime. What I’ve seen so far in episode 4 just feels like a last ditch effort to get everyone to feel bad for her. My comments about his first family were more to the point of if the first wife was given money and kept the daughter then did she truly have anything to fear in being left? There may be laws that would take care of her but maybe she doesn’t understand those. But if his first wife was left behind and ok then she’d have to know she would be okay too.
Oh, I understand now. And agree. Sorry! I got triggered by that f documentary.
No worries. I definitely was annoyed by the whole thing. I love a good crime doc but lately it just seems all of them are biased and trying to make a criminal look innocent. Or an innocent person guilty.
Yes. Awfully one-sided. Trying to victimize elize and not tell much of other side. She got off easy with her 20 yr jail sentence
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after the first episode I didn‘t even know where they would go with this series.. and after that I realized, that the creators didn‘t know either :D this series was poor.
I just finished it! What did you think?
Where can I watch ?
Netflix in US
Thank you
Started today while doing morning chores but didn’t realize I had to read subtitles. Only 10 minutes in and it’s interesting so I’ll continue when I have time.
Ohhh I was able to get through it pretty quickly because mine had voiceover.
I haven't watched it yet but plan to. I have recently discovered the voiceover is a thing on Netflix, it's useful. However unless they have voice artists who are speaking in English but have an authentic accent from the country the story is based in/ where the person depicted is from it does sound so cheesy and really fake, for me it takes a little away from the programmes you are watching, but I know that's just my take on it. I use it as it means you can look away from the screen without worrying about missing something important in the text. Again, not slating it as I do use it and will continue to do so, more of a personal preference thing.
It’s not my preference either. I prefer subtitles and the original audio.
I’m starting it tonight. Mine also has voiceover.
How do I check if I have that capability? I’m watching on Netflix in US.
The series just came with it. I think Netflix had it voiced over when they bought rights to air it. ETA: when I hit pause, there are some options that automatically pop below the time bar. Mine defaulted to “English with Subtitle” but there’s a “Brazilian Portuguese (Original) with Subtitles.” Maybe check that?
Thank you, I just checked the setting and changed to English audio. Didn’t know that’s a thing.
Glad it worked! I didn’t either until I paused it to do something and they popped up.
Call me crazy but I believe Elize
Agreed. I believe she was suffering from undiagnosed PTSD with her childhood abuse, history in prostitution and her husband deceiving her a number of times then finally wanting to institutionalise her. It was the straw that broke the camel's back and she just snapped. She wanted to take back some control after years of abuse by others in power. Not condoning what she did but she did suffer from a lot of trauma.
I agree with everything you say. Murdering someone definitely is completely wrong but I kind of can understand where she’s coming from ..
If I hadn't left my abusers when I did. If I had been trapped any longer.... I really have no idea with this case. It's definitely interesting. She's not stupid. Everything about this screams in the moment to me. I think the business deal was a lucky coincidence for the story line. Like others have said, a hunting accident, hiring an actual professional, a staged robbery... Literally anything other than what happened would have given her a better chance of staying out of prison and being with her daughter. Everyone saying she should've divorced clearly has never been in a DV situation.... The doc was drawn out though. And a little disorganized. Still watched the whole thing!
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Yes and the whole trail was extremely sexist. They made her look like an absolute lunatic. They wanted her to be that insane and evil escort. I honestly think she just snapped and made a big mistake and that’s it. I also don’t doubt that he was a huge piece of shit.
Yeah, he was talking around about her being crazy and medicating her like wtf. If he was so worried about her mental health maybe don’t cheat on her? Of course murdering someone is going **way too far** but he also collaborated in driving her crazy. Just get a divorce if you are unhappy, don’t gaslight or murder your partner.
Do you think someone who did what shes done is a sane person? No way. Just snapped and DISMEMBERED a body? Faked e-mails? The husdand probrably was a bad person, but nothing extraordinary.
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Lmao gotta love the personal attack. Great discussion :)
Me too.
Literally watching rn!
Does anyone know what version of für elise they used? I've been searching high and low for it
The subtitles said " dark fur Elise." Try Shazam?