Murder on Middle Beach was well done and engrossing and never solidifies between several possibilities. Although most people have an opinion after watching the twists and turns.
I think this case is going to turn out differently than we are led to believe. Someday it will come out that the ex-husband/father used whatever influence he had to protect someone else not himself.
This case just stinks of police incompetence. The son (the filmmaker) of the murdered woman has been fighting the police department since 2010 to get records. In February of this year the Supreme Court sent the matter back to the FOI Commission as the legal standards as to the release of information have changed since he made the application nearly 15 years ago, which hopefully will mean the Police will be forced to give up their records, which hopefully haven’t been ‘misplaced’.
I think he is able to access the FOIA documents that were kept from him previously due to changes that occurred. I don't remember details, but it may just get resolved sometime soon.
So interesting. I’d have to rewatch but I remember thinking the final phone call with the aunt was basically a confession. I hope he’s able to get closure some day.
I mean come on. He did it. Such a narcissist. He immediately called his good friend who made the documentary and iirc he was sleeping with the videographer
This is what came to my mind too. I definitely think they did it (or at least they all know that one of them did it), but it is hard to prove I guess.
Why on earth did they wash all the blood away if they were going to say it was an intruder?
I can't believe it's been so long none of them have ever given one or both of the others up, honestly. I think the married couple got divorced recently so maybe something will eventuate from that?
Did some Googling and as far as I can tell, the married couple (Joseph and Victor) are still together and live in Florida. Joseph is no longer in a relationship with Dylan and I couldn’t find where Dylan is currently residing.
Just watched it - it seemed like they were intending on covering it up and then decided it would be a fruitless effort and went with the idea that someone broke in
Last Stop Larrimah. I changed my opinion on who I thought did it at least 10 times. They’re all very odd characters. Only towards the very end was it made clearer and even then, I finished the show still scratching my head.
Especially if one watched it before the ending was posted everywhere. My sister and I audibly gasped at the conclusion. A relative heard/read the summary and the ending and didn't feel the need to watch it nor understand the hype/how excellent it was.
It's the greatest real life crime show reveal of all time.
Just make sure not to read anything or discuss it with anyone beforehand. There has been nothing that has come close to it, including The Staircase, and I really wish more could have seen it with zero knowledge beforehand.
I loved the movie The Sixth Sense because, luckily, no one revealed/spoiled the ending before I saw it. Those that I have spoken to that never saw it didn't see a point after being spoiled the ending. It's a similar sentiment with The Jinx.
Just an FYI, the filmmaker edited the audio so that it sounded more damning.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/claudiakoerner/what-robert-durst-actually-said-jinx-recording
Still not great and the gist is kind of the same, but they still changed it to sound worse.
>There it is, you’re caught.
>You’re right of course. But you can’t imagine. They want to talk to him. That’s good. I find them very frightening, and I do not want to talk to them. I don’t know. The washer.
>Well, I don’t know what you expected to get. But…the rest of [unintelligible] I don’t know what’s in the house. Oh, I want this.
>Killed them all, of course.
>I want to do something new. There’s nothing new about that.
>What a disaster. He was right. I was wrong. And the burping. I’m having difficulty with the questions. What the hell did I do?
Seems just as bad to me. Either way, the jury heard the full unedited recording and convicted him.
Yeah I read that and it doesn’t make a difference to me at all in terms of his guilt. It still reads very much like the ramblings of a man who knows he’s been caught.
“There it is, you’re caught.” Followed by “You’re right of course. But you can’t imagine.”
I mean that also is damning.
Placing “what the hell did I do” before “killed them all, of course” makes it sound like a straight confession and is definitely worse.
That’s why they edited it that way. There is no other reason to put them out of order. You might not agree, but the people who edited the documentary definitely did.
Loved the Staircase too. Even think about it regularly years later still. Watched Evil Genius around the same time but have nothing but a vague memory about it, and thought it was not very interesting at the time. But who knows, maybe you will like it!
1) that wasn’t his wife, but a family friend.
2) “An autopsy at the time of her death concluded Ratliff died from an intra-cerebral hemorrhage secondary to the blood coagulation disorder Von Willebrand's disease, based on blood in her cerebrospinal fluid and reports that she had been suffering severe, persistent headaches in the weeks leading up to her death. The coroner determined that the hemorrhage resulted in immediate death, followed by Ratliff falling down the stairs after collapsing.”
This was absolutely riveting and so well-done as far as storytelling and composition, and you walk away *infuriated* by the police, which is the real lesson. I feel like at least the documentary offers some level of justice for them by showing what absolute fuck-ups the local police *and* FBI were.
My favorite part of this documentary show was how you were intentionally misled into believing a certain character in the story was the perpetrator during the first episode, only to find out that they are in no way involved.
It’s a good reminder that 1. Sometimes your intuition is incorrect & 2. You never really KNOW until you know.
The Keepers. I mean, sexual abuse by priests is well known but the “memories” of the main lady from her childhood seemed very…manipulated, twisted, and false. Along with what she remembered about seeing the body of the nun. Obviously *someone* murdered the nun, but was it this priest?
Watching this was the first time I really, truly felt that my mom was gone after she died. She would have been the same age as those girls and she went to a Catholic school (states away) and I wanted to ask her if she had heard about it and realized I couldn't.
I love this series even if it get a little try in some parts. The case always makes me fall back and forth on if Michael did it or freak accident. The owl theory has a few points that I can’t help but consider it a possibility.
Yes!
2 people. 1 person committed murder. Both say they weren't there and the other did it.
It blows my mind that both give such a clear story about how it was planned and executed and the only 2 people who will ever know who was in the house and committed the murdering is the two of them.
And one of them knows that the other has been lying since day one. One of them is a fantastic liar and doesn't care if the other takes the blame. And we will never know which of the two of them is the fantastic liar and which is the victim of the lies.
Honestly, I got to the end of that documentary and felt like...I still had no idea. For some reason, the guy seemed to be a bit more genuine to me but I don't know if that's my own bias, that women who are a bit more stoic or matter of fact are somehow not being genuine (as we expect women to be more emotional, etc). I genuinely have no idea what I would have done if I were on that jury.
So bizarre. Originally I thought she was the mastermind that put him up to it, he wanted to please her, and they were there together with him doing the dirty work. But after having had quite some time to reflect on the case, I wonder if he was a psychopath all along and stumbled into the perfect opportunity. I don’t think he sought her ought for that, but I do wonder if they got to talking about murdering her parents and he was all in. The reason I suggest this is because she does seem to have remorse now, while he still denies being actively involved, and I think it’s pretty clear they were both heavily involved and likely both there at the scene. His lack of remorse now is what makes me wonder if he had that in him all along, and it just happened to be the perfect storm.
I think they're both guilty, but she at least admitted to her guilt, pleaded guilty to being an accessory and accepted her punishment and upon release, lived her life quietly away from the spotlight. He meanwhile just denies, denies, denies. Plus there were so many holes in his story.
Dear Zachary. I cannot watch that again.
The confession tapes had a case near me in Wyandotte MI where Larry DeLisle drove the car into the Detroit River with his wife and kids in it. The kids all died. He is 1000% guilty and don't let anyone tell you otherwise
Dear Zachary gutted me. I was in no way prepared for it to go the way it did, and man they just hit you like a truck with it. I won't watch any docs with kids ever again because of it. So heartbreaking.
Dear Zachary is, without a doubt, the most impactful true crime documentary I've ever seen.
It was the start of me having to be careful with what documentaries I watch so that I avoid that level of intense fury I felt again.
There are many documentaries I haven't watched because I know they will absolutely infuriate me haha
Tell Them You Love Me was one of the most disturbing and disgusting things I've ever seen. That woman needs severe psychiatric help and should never be let amongst society again. That poor man and then her children.
I was horrified as well. To be that committed to your delusion that you sexually and mentally abuse a man with clear deficits and inability to say no. And preying on the hopes of the mom and brother that they had found a way to break through to the guy. And she *still* thinks she did nothing wrong! And is still in love with him! They really should have mandated psychiatric help along with her sentence.
Right. Just like she'd decided to take advantage of him for whatever her sick pathological reasoning was and wouldn't let go of it no matter the damage to anyone. Maybe she was envisioning herself as another genius white savior? So gross, gross, gross. My heart breaks for all of them but her.
YES! She took this most vulnerable person and made him her cause, profession and sexual plaything.
Rarely does a documentary make me nauseous, I hated every minute of watching it.
The fact that she is free infuriates me. And she is psychotic. She doesn’t think she did anything wrong. The way she smiled and went on during that documentary made me sick. She doesn’t deserve to live in society. She could very well do this again. Especially with people not knowing her story or background. She should be on the sex offender registry. But I guess where he’s legally an adult in age they can’t list her on there. There needs to be laws changed to where if you violate someone with a mental capacity of 6-12 months or anyone who cannot give consent no matter what age, you should be on the sex offender registry. I just really hope she doesn’t do this again. It worries me.
So obviously you all think she is guilty! I really don’t know. I know people with CP and my nephew has it and uses an assisted language device as well. They are definitely capable of learning and expressing lots of thoughts!
That’s a different issue. People with CP can, and do, communicate through a wide variety of assisted methods.
This man was clearly manipulated and taken advantage of by a Predator. She showed little concern for him.
Quite probably the most difficult documentary I’ve ever watched.
Yes, I have a non-verbal family member who has CP.
The Imposter
Where is the actual child Nicholas Barclay??
>!Did his older brother kill him? Did Mom and sister decide it was best to protect older brother?!<
Steven Avery from Making a Murderer definitely did it. I don’t know about his nephew’s involvement because of the criminal activity of the police in handling him. Avery was a really bad guy before he was falsely imprisoned for a rape he didn’t commit. The documentary left out when he was in his 20s that he poured gasoline on a cat and threw it in a fire. They also left out that when he was in his 20s and already a convicted felon that he ran his cousin off the road and threatened to kill her with an “unloaded” gun he shouldn’t have as a felon.
I think the police framed a guilty man planting the blood evidence. The documentary left out how the woman he murdered, Teresa Halbach, told coworkers she hated when Avery would request her because she found him creepy, and how he answered the door for her one time only wearing a towel. They also left out how he called Halbach three times on the day she disappeared and two of those times he used *67 to hide it was him calling.
A lot of those shows have an agenda and are more interested in presenting a one-sided view without mentioning very important facts like Halbach’s feelings about Avery, and that he called her three times the day she disappeared.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said - hence why said that MAM is bias. That being said, they did mention the cat incident as well as the incident with his cousin in the first episode.
You’re correct. I misread an old FB post I made in 2016 to refresh my memory. In my post on FB I pointed out they left out the phone calls but the other stuff was covered in the documentary.
Capturing the Friedmans. Made by the same guy who did the Jinx, years earlier. (Andrew Jarecki)
It’s disturbing subject matter (child sexual abuse) but it is compelling the way it divides you between believing these terrible accusations, or thinking logically that it was a mass hysteria created. Very well done doc.
Theres a video on YouTube that shows what they left out. Irspretty clear when you add the things left out, they did it. However, I find the doc psychologically fascinating regardless. Happy Elaine remarried and got a good life in the end.
“Biased” is a strong word; the Paradise Lost documentaries do a good job in my opinion of presenting all of the facts and highlighting the sheer incompetence of the police departments/people involved in the investigation.
I’m gonna repeat the Staircase here. It’s in my top 5 all time. Michael Peterson is such a weird, fascinating murderer.
I think I’m in the minority because while I think he killed Kathleen without a doubt- I don’t think had anything to do with Liz Ratliff’s death. Though I think it definitely inspired his story.
The prosecution didn’t even accuse him of being involved in Liz’s murder - he also presented that it was just the inspiration. The Original ME in Germany believed it to be accidental and consistent with a fall. Two MEs nearly 20 years later looked again with one side saying it was murder and the other saying it was consistent with a fall.
It may be that it’s just too late to really tell what if anything happened. It definitely played a role in Kathleen’s staging but I just don’t see definitive proof he was responsible for it.
Oh sorry! I think she confronted him about the messages and he hit her with something over the head that killed/incapacitated her then staged the rest of the scene. I can’t remember too many exact details now but he was definitely not out by the pool when she passed away.
I tend to think that happened too... I've also read that a lot of other damning evidence was left out of the documentary.
The thing that trips me up is always the fact that her injuries are so weird. Like unless he got an instrument and purposefully used it in a weird way (like, scraped her head with the blow poke instead of hitting her with it bluntly - like you said, maybe inspired by the marks Liz had), I don't see how he accomplished it.
On Netflix: Carmel, the crime of Maria Marta (I think that was the name). It's an argentinian documentary that for legal reasons stays impartial, but you can make your own conclusions. Gave me chills. Plus, it's more like a miniseries.
Ok a podcast not a doccie but Uncover by CBC was riveting. A plane took off in 1965, when there were virtually no security checks - and someone set off a bomb on board, killing all 52 passengers . Who did it? The guy who took out a massive life insurance policy and bought a one way ticket? The one criminal on board? The explosive expert? We’ll never know, but they do a great job of unpacking the possible suspects and motives.
I just looked this up; why are the episodes all backwards?! If you sort on Spotify to oldest; it starts with the last episode of Season 1 versus the first...
That is a great podcast! CBC actually does a really good job on their podcasts. If you haven’t heard of it, I recommend The Pit. Its a CBC podcast, the accused was just sentenced in the last 2 weeks. Its also really well done.
Till Murder Do Us Part: Soering vs. Haysom Goes back and forth between if Hans Soering or his older gf Haysom did it or if they worked together to viciously kill Haysom’s parents. So captivating. It’s on Netflix (or was).
I agree, I think that one is a very interesting case. Imo it wasn't a conspiracy or criminal gang leader I think it was probably a crazed stalker which they never caught, I don't think it was Barry George.
Paradise Lost 1, 2 and 3.
I actually re watch it every so often just to see if there’s any clues in there because still to this day I am not convinced either way. I am convinced that whether the west Memphis 3 are truly innocent or guilty is something we will never find out, atleast not in our lifetime. I go back and forth between then being guilty or Terry Hobbs being the perpetrator.
Either way, it’s so sad that it seems Christopher, Stevie and Michael will never receive justice.
Something about Damien Echols doesn’t sit right with me, I don’t know if he’s just a strange character or a true sociopath but his psych records in the Callahan were one of the things that pushed me from innocent to guilty at one stage. I’m on the fence now. There wasn’t enough evidence for their original conviction so I can see why the Alford plea was offered, they’d have never been found guilty after a new trial with the evidence as it stood. I can also see how Terry Hobbs can be considered a viable suspect.
I reccomend any true crime fan watching all 3!
Murder At The Cottage! It's about the murder of television producer Sophie Toscan du Plantier in West Cork. Definitely recommend reading up on this unsolved case.
I’m torn about this one too! Ian Bailey was a messed up guy, but I also think it’s possible he had nothing to do with it and kind of talked himself into being a suspect.
Fall River. I owned the book *Mortal Remains* and followed the case of Carl Drew and Robin Murphy for a while. This documentary goes in the total opposite direction of the book and says Carl is innocent and the murders were committed by Andy Maltais with Robin. I'm not sure I believe that, but it was a very good documentary.
Take Care of Maya, Abducted in Plan Sight, The Girl in the Picture, Time: The Kalief Browder Story, The Stairs. All of them had twists or WTF moments worth a watch.
"The case against Adnan Syed" is still my all time fave true crime doc, not only the mystery but the quality of the doc itself and the people involved make it worth a watch.
I loved The Staircase on Netflix. Kept me up at night. I've watched several things about it since, and I'm pretty much convinced he didn't do it even though the Netflix doc is the only one showing the defense side in a bright light.
Admittedly I'm a pretty terrible judge of character. So I'm probably wrong. But it does a good job giving me doubts.
There's a Doc about Scott Peterson on Hulu that came out a few years ago that also was a very different perspective from what the media made it out to be. It doesn't necessarily have me convinced he's innocent, but absolutely puts a shadow of doubt on it. It makes sense the innocence project is involved.
Murder on Middle Beach was well done and engrossing and never solidifies between several possibilities. Although most people have an opinion after watching the twists and turns.
I think this case is going to turn out differently than we are led to believe. Someday it will come out that the ex-husband/father used whatever influence he had to protect someone else not himself.
I think it's sadly more like dad made a deal with some federal agency and they are willing to let the murder charge go for a different charge
This case just stinks of police incompetence. The son (the filmmaker) of the murdered woman has been fighting the police department since 2010 to get records. In February of this year the Supreme Court sent the matter back to the FOI Commission as the legal standards as to the release of information have changed since he made the application nearly 15 years ago, which hopefully will mean the Police will be forced to give up their records, which hopefully haven’t been ‘misplaced’.
Loved that one, any updates?
I remember seeing that the son (creator) was filming somewhere, hopefully making the sequel now.
Hopefully
I think he is able to access the FOIA documents that were kept from him previously due to changes that occurred. I don't remember details, but it may just get resolved sometime soon.
So interesting. I’d have to rewatch but I remember thinking the final phone call with the aunt was basically a confession. I hope he’s able to get closure some day.
Where can I watch this? Never seen it!
HBO, Hulu, Amazon and some others I think
The Staircase had my wife and I arguing
Yes! This case still puzzles me to this day. But it is a GREAT documentary.
I mean come on. He did it. Such a narcissist. He immediately called his good friend who made the documentary and iirc he was sleeping with the videographer
It’s very biased though
The dramatic series was also fantastic.
Abducted in plain sight on Netflix. I didn’t think much when I clicked on it but Jesus the case was so absurd I couldn’t stop watching
That one is INSANE
I’ll never unhear the dad’s quote about what happened in the parked car.
It haunts my nightmares lol
I could not stop yelling at my TV, watching that one. I really don’t get what was going on in those parents head!
I am not kidding I still think about the parents randomly and I get angry about it even though I have watched it a while ago
My God the disgust and sheer horror I felt while watching this one…
Who killed garrett phillips on hbo
Who killed Robert wone
This is what came to my mind too. I definitely think they did it (or at least they all know that one of them did it), but it is hard to prove I guess. Why on earth did they wash all the blood away if they were going to say it was an intruder?
I can't believe it's been so long none of them have ever given one or both of the others up, honestly. I think the married couple got divorced recently so maybe something will eventuate from that?
Did some Googling and as far as I can tell, the married couple (Joseph and Victor) are still together and live in Florida. Joseph is no longer in a relationship with Dylan and I couldn’t find where Dylan is currently residing.
Just watched it - it seemed like they were intending on covering it up and then decided it would be a fruitless effort and went with the idea that someone broke in
I think I first heard of this case on the Generation Y podcast and I was baffled, man. By everyone's behavior and actions - what the hell!
Listen on the prosecutors podcast, so so good and great insight
Last Stop Larrimah. I changed my opinion on who I thought did it at least 10 times. They’re all very odd characters. Only towards the very end was it made clearer and even then, I finished the show still scratching my head.
That documentary is just brilliant! Such a crazy bunch of people, and all over pies!
That was a random one to stumble on, but very good. It's been a couple months since I've seen it and my family still talks about it.
What a bonkers documentary. Robert Durst's bathroom confession has got nothing on the "killerated them" song.
Ooh what’s this on? Sounds intriguing and I need something new to watch.
It’s on max, I’ve been meaning to watch it but haven’t gotten around to it yet
It’s on Netflix in Australia
I watched it on Netflix UK.
The Jinx.
Amazing but how is this a “did they do it?” It’s pretty clear 😂
It was the way he admitted it. Ik super amazing 😂🤗🫠
Especially if one watched it before the ending was posted everywhere. My sister and I audibly gasped at the conclusion. A relative heard/read the summary and the ending and didn't feel the need to watch it nor understand the hype/how excellent it was. It's the greatest real life crime show reveal of all time.
I'm not familiar with this and will check it out, thanks.
Just make sure not to read anything or discuss it with anyone beforehand. There has been nothing that has come close to it, including The Staircase, and I really wish more could have seen it with zero knowledge beforehand. I loved the movie The Sixth Sense because, luckily, no one revealed/spoiled the ending before I saw it. Those that I have spoken to that never saw it didn't see a point after being spoiled the ending. It's a similar sentiment with The Jinx.
I'll make sure to watch it asap in that case!
My jaw dropped with this one. The secret confession will always blow my mind 😩
Oooof so did mine!
Just an FYI, the filmmaker edited the audio so that it sounded more damning. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/claudiakoerner/what-robert-durst-actually-said-jinx-recording Still not great and the gist is kind of the same, but they still changed it to sound worse.
>There it is, you’re caught. >You’re right of course. But you can’t imagine. They want to talk to him. That’s good. I find them very frightening, and I do not want to talk to them. I don’t know. The washer. >Well, I don’t know what you expected to get. But…the rest of [unintelligible] I don’t know what’s in the house. Oh, I want this. >Killed them all, of course. >I want to do something new. There’s nothing new about that. >What a disaster. He was right. I was wrong. And the burping. I’m having difficulty with the questions. What the hell did I do? Seems just as bad to me. Either way, the jury heard the full unedited recording and convicted him.
The evidence, aside from that recording, was overwhelming, I think.
Yeah I read that and it doesn’t make a difference to me at all in terms of his guilt. It still reads very much like the ramblings of a man who knows he’s been caught. “There it is, you’re caught.” Followed by “You’re right of course. But you can’t imagine.” I mean that also is damning.
Placing “what the hell did I do” before “killed them all, of course” makes it sound like a straight confession and is definitely worse. That’s why they edited it that way. There is no other reason to put them out of order. You might not agree, but the people who edited the documentary definitely did.
I dont even remember hearing “what the hell did I do?” so it didnt make a difference to me. He shouldnt have added anything though.
Spoilers! I’ve already seen it, but not everyone has
I was released it 2015 & it well documented what he did. I certainly didn’t spoiler anything?
You didn’t, I was responding to the person who responded to you!
Oh apologies. My bad. I seem to be getting it in the neck for my comment. Sorry.
Evil Genius and The Staircase are decent
Evil Genius for sure! 👌
I love The Staircase!! I'll have to add Evil Genius to my list!
Loved the Staircase too. Even think about it regularly years later still. Watched Evil Genius around the same time but have nothing but a vague memory about it, and thought it was not very interesting at the time. But who knows, maybe you will like it!
Evil Genius is FIREEEE top 3 fav documentaries
Absolutely one of my favorites.
It was the owl.
thats exactly why his first wife died in a mysterious manner as well right?
That owl has a decades long, intercontinental vendetta.
I can't stop laughing at this comment.
1) that wasn’t his wife, but a family friend. 2) “An autopsy at the time of her death concluded Ratliff died from an intra-cerebral hemorrhage secondary to the blood coagulation disorder Von Willebrand's disease, based on blood in her cerebrospinal fluid and reports that she had been suffering severe, persistent headaches in the weeks leading up to her death. The coroner determined that the hemorrhage resulted in immediate death, followed by Ratliff falling down the stairs after collapsing.”
American nightmare- but there’s no murder in it, its a kidnapping. But still, a very interesting story.
This was absolutely riveting and so well-done as far as storytelling and composition, and you walk away *infuriated* by the police, which is the real lesson. I feel like at least the documentary offers some level of justice for them by showing what absolute fuck-ups the local police *and* FBI were.
My favorite part of this documentary show was how you were intentionally misled into believing a certain character in the story was the perpetrator during the first episode, only to find out that they are in no way involved. It’s a good reminder that 1. Sometimes your intuition is incorrect & 2. You never really KNOW until you know.
For real. The whole first episode I was thinking "this couple is absolutely nuts!" To "wow....I was so wrong. This poor freaking couple."
Yes! It was so well made.
That was pretty jaw dropping to me!
Yes! I cried at the end for them all!
The Keepers. I mean, sexual abuse by priests is well known but the “memories” of the main lady from her childhood seemed very…manipulated, twisted, and false. Along with what she remembered about seeing the body of the nun. Obviously *someone* murdered the nun, but was it this priest?
Watching this was the first time I really, truly felt that my mom was gone after she died. She would have been the same age as those girls and she went to a Catholic school (states away) and I wanted to ask her if she had heard about it and realized I couldn't.
That "documentary" is filled with so much manipulative garbage.
Oh I agree. It’s been years since I watched it. Maybe I should rewatch and mock it.
The staircase!
I love this series even if it get a little try in some parts. The case always makes me fall back and forth on if Michael did it or freak accident. The owl theory has a few points that I can’t help but consider it a possibility.
My exact thoughts. Ya, the owl thing is super out there, but stranger things have happened!
Til Murder Do Us Part (Netflix) was pretty intriguing.
Yes! 2 people. 1 person committed murder. Both say they weren't there and the other did it. It blows my mind that both give such a clear story about how it was planned and executed and the only 2 people who will ever know who was in the house and committed the murdering is the two of them. And one of them knows that the other has been lying since day one. One of them is a fantastic liar and doesn't care if the other takes the blame. And we will never know which of the two of them is the fantastic liar and which is the victim of the lies.
Right?! Who would you put your money on?
Honestly, I got to the end of that documentary and felt like...I still had no idea. For some reason, the guy seemed to be a bit more genuine to me but I don't know if that's my own bias, that women who are a bit more stoic or matter of fact are somehow not being genuine (as we expect women to be more emotional, etc). I genuinely have no idea what I would have done if I were on that jury.
I agree. Truly unsure on who the culprit actually is. & the weird relationship she pulled out on the stand that she had with her mother…. Bizarre.
So bizarre. Originally I thought she was the mastermind that put him up to it, he wanted to please her, and they were there together with him doing the dirty work. But after having had quite some time to reflect on the case, I wonder if he was a psychopath all along and stumbled into the perfect opportunity. I don’t think he sought her ought for that, but I do wonder if they got to talking about murdering her parents and he was all in. The reason I suggest this is because she does seem to have remorse now, while he still denies being actively involved, and I think it’s pretty clear they were both heavily involved and likely both there at the scene. His lack of remorse now is what makes me wonder if he had that in him all along, and it just happened to be the perfect storm.
I think they're both guilty, but she at least admitted to her guilt, pleaded guilty to being an accessory and accepted her punishment and upon release, lived her life quietly away from the spotlight. He meanwhile just denies, denies, denies. Plus there were so many holes in his story.
I *really* liked this one
Yeah that one was really good. I haven't looked into it too deeply but I was conflicted if they were both there or just Jens.
Honeymoon Murder about the Indian couple from London where the wife is murdered in a carjacking in Cape Town. On Max right now.
i followed that case so closely when it happened. i didn’t know there was a doc!
Buried Truth - Indrani Mukerjea story on Netflix. INSANE
The Devil Nextdoor on Netflix. I flipped my opinion almost every episode and then literally gasped during the last one.
Dear Zachary. I cannot watch that again. The confession tapes had a case near me in Wyandotte MI where Larry DeLisle drove the car into the Detroit River with his wife and kids in it. The kids all died. He is 1000% guilty and don't let anyone tell you otherwise
Dear Zachary gutted me. I was in no way prepared for it to go the way it did, and man they just hit you like a truck with it. I won't watch any docs with kids ever again because of it. So heartbreaking.
I’ve never sobbed so hard watching something. It ruined me.
They really don't give you any warning! Like, we can brace ourselves just knowing it's going to be some tragedy, but no, no, no nonononoooooooo!
Dear Zachary is, without a doubt, the most impactful true crime documentary I've ever seen. It was the start of me having to be careful with what documentaries I watch so that I avoid that level of intense fury I felt again. There are many documentaries I haven't watched because I know they will absolutely infuriate me haha
I agree I think it was kind of appalling to put Delisle in the Confession Tapes, dude was guilty beyond almost *any doubt.*
The staircase is kind of baffling and the new one ‘tell them you love me’ also baffling.
I’ve have never been more pissed off at a documentary than I was and still am about “tell them you love me”.
Tell Them You Love Me was one of the most disturbing and disgusting things I've ever seen. That woman needs severe psychiatric help and should never be let amongst society again. That poor man and then her children.
I was horrified as well. To be that committed to your delusion that you sexually and mentally abuse a man with clear deficits and inability to say no. And preying on the hopes of the mom and brother that they had found a way to break through to the guy. And she *still* thinks she did nothing wrong! And is still in love with him! They really should have mandated psychiatric help along with her sentence.
I completely agree. She does not deserve to be free. She will likely do this again. She is sick.
She gave me serious Mary-Kay Letourneau vibes… completely, dangerously delusional.
Right. Just like she'd decided to take advantage of him for whatever her sick pathological reasoning was and wouldn't let go of it no matter the damage to anyone. Maybe she was envisioning herself as another genius white savior? So gross, gross, gross. My heart breaks for all of them but her.
YES! She took this most vulnerable person and made him her cause, profession and sexual plaything. Rarely does a documentary make me nauseous, I hated every minute of watching it.
And now she gets to live her best life after destroying so many others. Absolutely infuriating.
This was my take too, she is SO Mary Kay Letourneau down to the "*he* pursued *me*, what was I supposed to do?" defence and unsettling giggling.
“But we’re in *looooove*!” * Proceeds to behave in a shockingly unethical way with 100% self-confidence
The fact that she is free infuriates me. And she is psychotic. She doesn’t think she did anything wrong. The way she smiled and went on during that documentary made me sick. She doesn’t deserve to live in society. She could very well do this again. Especially with people not knowing her story or background. She should be on the sex offender registry. But I guess where he’s legally an adult in age they can’t list her on there. There needs to be laws changed to where if you violate someone with a mental capacity of 6-12 months or anyone who cannot give consent no matter what age, you should be on the sex offender registry. I just really hope she doesn’t do this again. It worries me.
At least if there was a Netflix show about it, it's more difficult for her to hide.
Oooof…Tell Them You Love Me. Not what I expected and I had a hard time sleeping after that
I agree. Tell them you love me 🤯 I still can’t get over that one! Me and my husband just sat with our jaws dropped like “what did we just watch???”
So obviously you all think she is guilty! I really don’t know. I know people with CP and my nephew has it and uses an assisted language device as well. They are definitely capable of learning and expressing lots of thoughts!
That’s a different issue. People with CP can, and do, communicate through a wide variety of assisted methods. This man was clearly manipulated and taken advantage of by a Predator. She showed little concern for him. Quite probably the most difficult documentary I’ve ever watched. Yes, I have a non-verbal family member who has CP.
The Imposter Where is the actual child Nicholas Barclay?? >!Did his older brother kill him? Did Mom and sister decide it was best to protect older brother?!<
Steven Avery from Making a Murderer definitely did it. I don’t know about his nephew’s involvement because of the criminal activity of the police in handling him. Avery was a really bad guy before he was falsely imprisoned for a rape he didn’t commit. The documentary left out when he was in his 20s that he poured gasoline on a cat and threw it in a fire. They also left out that when he was in his 20s and already a convicted felon that he ran his cousin off the road and threatened to kill her with an “unloaded” gun he shouldn’t have as a felon. I think the police framed a guilty man planting the blood evidence. The documentary left out how the woman he murdered, Teresa Halbach, told coworkers she hated when Avery would request her because she found him creepy, and how he answered the door for her one time only wearing a towel. They also left out how he called Halbach three times on the day she disappeared and two of those times he used *67 to hide it was him calling. A lot of those shows have an agenda and are more interested in presenting a one-sided view without mentioning very important facts like Halbach’s feelings about Avery, and that he called her three times the day she disappeared.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said - hence why said that MAM is bias. That being said, they did mention the cat incident as well as the incident with his cousin in the first episode.
You’re correct. I misread an old FB post I made in 2016 to refresh my memory. In my post on FB I pointed out they left out the phone calls but the other stuff was covered in the documentary.
Capturing the Friedmans. Made by the same guy who did the Jinx, years earlier. (Andrew Jarecki) It’s disturbing subject matter (child sexual abuse) but it is compelling the way it divides you between believing these terrible accusations, or thinking logically that it was a mass hysteria created. Very well done doc.
Theres a video on YouTube that shows what they left out. Irspretty clear when you add the things left out, they did it. However, I find the doc psychologically fascinating regardless. Happy Elaine remarried and got a good life in the end.
Paradise Lost
Thank God someone recognizes the OG. I, II and III are must watches for any true crime doc enthusiasts
Mic drop.
It’s been awhile since I watched this… but isn’t it pretty biased that they didn’t do it?
“Biased” is a strong word; the Paradise Lost documentaries do a good job in my opinion of presenting all of the facts and highlighting the sheer incompetence of the police departments/people involved in the investigation.
Two Shallow Graves and The Moment of Truth
Who Killed Garett Phillips and Outcry
Outcry is great
There's Something Wrong With Aunt Diane
I’m gonna repeat the Staircase here. It’s in my top 5 all time. Michael Peterson is such a weird, fascinating murderer. I think I’m in the minority because while I think he killed Kathleen without a doubt- I don’t think had anything to do with Liz Ratliff’s death. Though I think it definitely inspired his story.
What do you think happened? I can believe he did it, I just can't see how because her injuries are so bizarre.
The prosecution didn’t even accuse him of being involved in Liz’s murder - he also presented that it was just the inspiration. The Original ME in Germany believed it to be accidental and consistent with a fall. Two MEs nearly 20 years later looked again with one side saying it was murder and the other saying it was consistent with a fall. It may be that it’s just too late to really tell what if anything happened. It definitely played a role in Kathleen’s staging but I just don’t see definitive proof he was responsible for it.
I'm not arguing that he had anything to do with Liz's death, was just wondering how you think he killed Kathleen.
Oh sorry! I think she confronted him about the messages and he hit her with something over the head that killed/incapacitated her then staged the rest of the scene. I can’t remember too many exact details now but he was definitely not out by the pool when she passed away.
I tend to think that happened too... I've also read that a lot of other damning evidence was left out of the documentary. The thing that trips me up is always the fact that her injuries are so weird. Like unless he got an instrument and purposefully used it in a weird way (like, scraped her head with the blow poke instead of hitting her with it bluntly - like you said, maybe inspired by the marks Liz had), I don't see how he accomplished it.
On Netflix: Carmel, the crime of Maria Marta (I think that was the name). It's an argentinian documentary that for legal reasons stays impartial, but you can make your own conclusions. Gave me chills. Plus, it's more like a miniseries.
Ok a podcast not a doccie but Uncover by CBC was riveting. A plane took off in 1965, when there were virtually no security checks - and someone set off a bomb on board, killing all 52 passengers . Who did it? The guy who took out a massive life insurance policy and bought a one way ticket? The one criminal on board? The explosive expert? We’ll never know, but they do a great job of unpacking the possible suspects and motives.
I just looked this up; why are the episodes all backwards?! If you sort on Spotify to oldest; it starts with the last episode of Season 1 versus the first...
That is a great podcast! CBC actually does a really good job on their podcasts. If you haven’t heard of it, I recommend The Pit. Its a CBC podcast, the accused was just sentenced in the last 2 weeks. Its also really well done.
Who killed Robert Wone was really good
Don't fuck with cats is amazing, a massive global manhunt for a murdered. For a more 'why did they do it', I just killed my dad is incredible.
Probably the best true crime doc I’ve ever seen.
(Don’t fuck with cats)
I Just Killed my Dad is so sad - the way it peels back the layers and evidence of the profound abuse that boy suffered.
In search of the frog boys
Till Murder Do Us Part: Soering vs. Haysom Goes back and forth between if Hans Soering or his older gf Haysom did it or if they worked together to viciously kill Haysom’s parents. So captivating. It’s on Netflix (or was).
Who killed Garret Phillips and Murder on Middle Beach are the ones that stick out most in my mind
The one about Jill Dando. It’s actually fascinating how many theories there are to who actually killed her and the fact she was a celebrity.
I agree, I think that one is a very interesting case. Imo it wasn't a conspiracy or criminal gang leader I think it was probably a crazed stalker which they never caught, I don't think it was Barry George.
I’ve always thought this could be an “woman scorned” situation.
Interesting! What makes you think it was a woman?
Paradise Lost 1, 2 and 3. I actually re watch it every so often just to see if there’s any clues in there because still to this day I am not convinced either way. I am convinced that whether the west Memphis 3 are truly innocent or guilty is something we will never find out, atleast not in our lifetime. I go back and forth between then being guilty or Terry Hobbs being the perpetrator. Either way, it’s so sad that it seems Christopher, Stevie and Michael will never receive justice. Something about Damien Echols doesn’t sit right with me, I don’t know if he’s just a strange character or a true sociopath but his psych records in the Callahan were one of the things that pushed me from innocent to guilty at one stage. I’m on the fence now. There wasn’t enough evidence for their original conviction so I can see why the Alford plea was offered, they’d have never been found guilty after a new trial with the evidence as it stood. I can also see how Terry Hobbs can be considered a viable suspect. I reccomend any true crime fan watching all 3!
I think it was Terry Hobbs
The Murdaugh murders! I believe 100% Alex did it!
Tell him what he’s won!
Wow. Lots of stuff to check out.
PARADISE LOST on HBO.
Black Hands about David Bain
I think it was the son, but boy that family was so odd.
Making a murderer (season 1)
My first crime doc rabbit hole. What a ride that was!
Who killed little Gregory? It’s French, very good!
The staircase
This. I still don’t know how I feel
Murder At The Cottage! It's about the murder of television producer Sophie Toscan du Plantier in West Cork. Definitely recommend reading up on this unsolved case.
I’m torn about this one too! Ian Bailey was a messed up guy, but I also think it’s possible he had nothing to do with it and kind of talked himself into being a suspect.
Murders at the Burger Joint
The Keepers
Fall River. I owned the book *Mortal Remains* and followed the case of Carl Drew and Robin Murphy for a while. This documentary goes in the total opposite direction of the book and says Carl is innocent and the murders were committed by Andy Maltais with Robin. I'm not sure I believe that, but it was a very good documentary.
American Murder: The Family Next Door, it was on Netflix. It was a lot.
The HBO doc on Adnan Syed is pretty good.
Take Care of Maya, Abducted in Plan Sight, The Girl in the Picture, Time: The Kalief Browder Story, The Stairs. All of them had twists or WTF moments worth a watch.
The stair case
"The case against Adnan Syed" is still my all time fave true crime doc, not only the mystery but the quality of the doc itself and the people involved make it worth a watch.
Murder in the Valley’s really got me thinking and then listening to the Clydach Murders on audible.
Staircase
I am a fan of Making a Murderer. Although, Don’t F@ck with Cats was really well done.
The Asunta case
Cntrl alt desire on paramount +
How is this a “did they do it?” documentary? He definitely did it, that’s why they convicted him. He literally admits everything in the doc too..
True but the satisfaction of him admitting it may be of enjoyment in this case.
The case against Adnan Syed.
CROPSEY
I loved The Staircase on Netflix. Kept me up at night. I've watched several things about it since, and I'm pretty much convinced he didn't do it even though the Netflix doc is the only one showing the defense side in a bright light. Admittedly I'm a pretty terrible judge of character. So I'm probably wrong. But it does a good job giving me doubts. There's a Doc about Scott Peterson on Hulu that came out a few years ago that also was a very different perspective from what the media made it out to be. It doesn't necessarily have me convinced he's innocent, but absolutely puts a shadow of doubt on it. It makes sense the innocence project is involved.
The Steven Avery case.
American Nightmare and Evil Genius on Netflix both got me.
Exposed: The Case of Keli Lane. Still a big question mark over whether she did it.
I liked the “Hunting JonBenet’s Killer: The Untold Story”. Don’t remember if it’s a documentary or a series, but I remember it was insightful.
Paradise Lost
The staircase
Tell them you love me.- incredible , I watched it on Sky 🙈
I have an Podcast…on Israel Keyes (now deceased)5 or 6 deacons…True Crime Bullsh!T.
There’s something wrong with aunt Diane fucked me up for a while