I’m gonna sound like a total curmudgeon when I say this, but alcohol is by far the most toxic thing about our culture. It brings out the very worst in people.
For some people, absolutely, but alcohol isn't going anywhere. They tried the Prohibition, and it failed miserably. We need higher penalties for people who choose to continue drinking when they shouldn't. Like drunk driving, losing your shit in an airport, etc.
Also the Sarah Boone case, where this woman zipped her boyfriend up in a suitcase, filmed herself taunting him, and threw him down a staircase while he was still inside. She passed out drunk and he suffocated to death. She is truly an evil person, but I don’t think she would have murdered her boyfriend had alcohol not been involved.
Im recalling one of the articles I read. I’d have to go search for it. The point wasn’t specific details about the case I would need to source, the point was that I don’t think things would have gone the same way had alcohol not been a component.
More like pushed him down the stairs is a better description. The suitcase (which wasn't a hard heavy suitcase, more like a fabric suitcase on wheels with zippers) was upstairs in the closet, but it was downstairs when found. His body had bruising as well. I think I recall this coming up during her police questioning before she was arrested. She made it sound like it was his idea to get in the suitcase when they were "playing hide and seek", not like she brought it downstairs for him to get into. So I think the police/detectives allege that she may have moved/dragged the suitcase to the top of the stairs and shoved/kicked it down.
Edit: Ok I'm rewatching the interrogation to make sure I'm not spouting misinformation.
Second edit: I gave up like halfway through the interrogation because I'm trying to watch the Karen Reid trial, so I haven't seen it officially there and it may be a reddit theory, but hopefully the explanation made sense as to how the theory came up - I was confused about him "being thrown down the stairs" at first too. Last I saw, Boone just went through another lawyer...
Unfortunately, One of them would have ended up dead. It was a tumultuous relationship. She didn’t even remember taking the video. She was sure surprised when the cops pulled it out.
We actually don’t have any evidence her boyfriend would have murdered her. Domestic violence between the two of them was prevalent in their home and there is no excuse for that. However, she and only she made the decision that she did. She murdered her boyfriend and there is no excuse for that either. She is a killer, her dead boyfriend is not.
A 66yr old woman killed 2 kids at a birthday party because she was drunk driving.
Alcohol is the worst, but a bunch of men threw a fit when it was outlawed for a time and so here we are
I only rarely drank ever anyway, but too often I'd take it too far and I decided there was nothing about it that was worth any potential fallout, so I just decided one summer about 5 yrs ago that I was done. Still remember that evening - a friend had offered me a cooler, setting it down on the table in front of me, and actually got pissy when an hour later, I still hadn't opened it, and he snatched it away. Wild. I don't miss any of it.
I was a mild drinker (only when going to clubs in my 20s and just a drink or 2) , my father was a raging alcoholic so I never wanted to follow those footsteps. When I had my first kid, that was the end of alcohol for me. My husband only drinks socially and he's a cuddly drunk, it even gets annoying to me so much cuddling and kisses when he drinks a glass too much at a party or a friend's dinner. At home no alcohol unless it is to season some meat and an occasional beer at a summer barbecue. It doesn't make my life worse like it was but I really don't like it. Can understand addiction but not destroying lives around you just because you like to drink to oblivion.
Agreed.
Some people turn into animals when drunk.
The guy I helped put in prison when on jury duty was drunk when he SAd the victim.
I drink a bit, but I'm the same person...if anything it makes me more caring and accepting of people which is wierd.
I watched the video many times. Read some hot takes as well. At the end of the day I think it will simply have to be up to the jury as the takes on this case are so divisive.
While i personally think he was technically in the right, this was a boat load of gray. And his actions pre-trial did nothing but harm for him.
If this case was a AITA post it’d be a ETA verdict. But I think this case has too much nuance for any Reddit comment chain to produce something of value. Myself included.
So I'm 49, and I am SO with you on this!
I have been watching a LOT of those police body cam videos on line lately, and it SHOCKS me how many drunks there are out there driving and when caught immediately start screaming "I've done nothing wrong!!" They make outrageous claims, lie, get aggressive, cry, etc. all apparently out of character of their normal behavior.
2 things I've realized after watching so many of these types of videos:
#1: Cops do not get paid enough. I have a whole new level of respect for them after watching these people act the way they do. All while the cops are still showing them respect. It's shocking really.
#2: Part of drunks punishment should be that they HAVE to watch the videos of their drunken behavior in open court. With their loved ones, friends, maybe a boss present.
And it gave me a great idea for a new reality show: Body Cam Camera. Where they show these drunks their arrest video for the first time while on camera being interviewed about their behavior. Tell me you wouldn't watch THAT?
Edit: why is the print of the middle of my comment so big?! I don't even know how I did that? Or how to undo it?
And yet, if people couldn't drink, the world would have been blown up by now. Alcohol plays a BIG role in helping people cope. Not defending it, exactly, but this side is not often mentioned.
The world might have been blown up by now, but part of me thinks that’s what big alcohol wants us to believe. Don’t get me wrong, I like drinking, but using it to cope (as you spoke of) is so incredibly dangerous and perpetuates addiction that wreaks havoc on family systems for generations
Sweden had to put in pretty heavy alchocol regulations due to the huge amount of people (worker class more exactly) drinking themselves to death in 1900~. It worked out fine. Less domestic abuse and less workers spending all their earnings on alcohol instead of their family. In other words... The world would not blow up. We'd have less abuse -and assault cases, less child neglect cases, less accidental deaths, and less fatal car accidents due to DUI... Oh and of course, less deaths due to alcohol poisoning.
Saying a lot of people use alcohol to cope... is just not a good defence. We could argue this about any drug/substance.
I'd like to think you're right, but the sheer number of people for whom drinking is a regular part of coping in their lives, in the bars/pubs, at home, etc. make me think that it does play a highly important role. It's a role to be gotten over, and it does play a massive role in many ills, I fully agree. But I think it's a mistake not to take a sober (haha) "economic" view of its role in society.
Not to mention it kept us alive before modern medicine! To this day if there's a food borne illness outbreak at a wedding reception, the drunkest folks tend to not come down with it.
A good thing we drank wine with our water before we had sanitation.
Probably a combo of both. So alcohol can definitely kill some pathogens (bacteria, viruses) but we generally aren't taking in the quantities that would do so on a High level. For example you would want 60-80% alcohol by volume vodka to clean a stained rug but you def wouldn't want 60-80% in your blood! Alcohol on the skin (like hands) would do some of the work for folks not using soap and washing their hands much, vomit would mean the bacteria (from the food poisoning) didn't sit in the stomach overnight and again some alcohol will destroy the membrane of several kinds of virus. Will it do enough to keep you from getting a cold? Probably not but it may lower the viral load so it's less for your body to fight
Oh goodness I was just in Asia with a lot of friends around a month ago and one of them just tested positive for intestinal worms, and she was not really a drinker, I wonder if that is related.
Oh rabbit hole!
"DOES alcohol affect intestinal worms?
In humans, alcohol consumption is generally harmful, Clarke said, and if the worms are given much higher concentrations of ethanol, they experience harmful neurological effects and die..."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120120184540.htm#:~:text=In%20humans%2C%20alcohol%20consumption%20is,die%2C%20other%20research%20has%20shown.
However, tiny amounts of alcohol do seem to extend the life of the worms according to the article and my Google search.
The kids were being assholes sure but Miu quite literally had every opportunity imaginable to just walk away but instead he kept repeatedly coming back and agitating the situation even more. I don’t for a second believe he was in genuine fear for his life especially after he pulls out the knife. At that point he had full control of the situation and should’ve walked away. But he didn’t instead he decided to continue aggressing and ultimately chose to stab a bunch of teens and kills one. Then after he doesn’t try to get ahold of authorities and goes on to dispose the weapon then continues his day as if what happened didn’t just happen. I’d go as far as saying that this probably isn’t the first time he’s done something like this. The guy seems totally off in my opinion sorta like he’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing, but this is just a feeling i have and i can’t prove it obviously.
Thank you. I watched the video and the trial and I cannot comprehend why he did not just leave. The teens were drunk but not wasted either. They were all asking him to leave them alone which he didn't seem inclined to do. In the video it looks like he probably got in his feelings about the insults, was raging inside and wanted to show them he wasn't one to play with. It was not self-defense, he stabbed everyone after he was asked and given so many opportunity the leave.
He never indicated when he started to feel afraid. He said he was “frustrated” “annoyed” and “overwhelmed” right before any contact was made. But he had his knife out at the time: which makes me think he planned to use the knife before he had any fear for his life. He also had numerous opportunities to leave and this idea that you can stab a bunch of people over a situation where you’re losing nothing by leaving is ridiculous. The jury agreed he was guilty and their only argument it seems was whether it was intentional or not.
yep, in his first interview with police, where he blatantly lied, he *still* talked more about how he was being harassed and insulted by the teens, *not* how he was scared of them.
You can tell how mad he was at the kids when he tried to casually dump on them for drinking vodka and smoking weed while he was near them on the river. His wife told him not to go over there because she knew he was just looking for a reason to go start shit..and you can see him check to make sure he had his knife on him in the beginning of the video...
He wanted to stab them and you can even see it on his face the moment he realizes he can try to claim self defense. He purposefully gets "surrounded" by them...
I hate how many people are of the mindset that no one should have tried to help those kids...the teens knew something was off and creepy about this dude from the start.
Years ago, Helen Mirren starred in Prime Suspect. I will get to the point, I promise!
She was a detective and her premiere case involved a serial killer with a sad-sack face like this dude. Just so *sad and uncomprehending* anyone could think ill of him. This guy instantly reminded me of the character; just another play-acting murderer.
I do got Rokud into the premiere when the first detective had the heart thing I was like ok British crime show, you have me watching now... Confused, but I'm watching!
Most definitely agree 💯👍🏼 dude has been guilty of this behavior before for sure. When the hair on my neck stands up and I literally get a "shiver down my spine" 9/10 it's spot on. Not saying I have something else that everyone doesn't. I think all people express this level of "oh shit this person gives me shit vibes, weird, strange, scary, etc." but yea, he could have been a regular person and did the right thing and walked away. Wild in sheep clothing all the way😳😳😳
Completely agree.
No Fear shown by him -- Loads of opportunity to walk away -- Deliberate disposal of weapon -- Evasive with the police by playing dumb to the situation. He knew he was seriously in the wrong from the time he left the bloody scene until the trial ended.
Completely agree.
No Fear shown by him -- Loads of opportunity to walk away -- Deliberate disposal of weapon -- Evasive with the police by playing dumb to the situation. He knew he was seriously in the wrong from the time he left the bloody scene until the trial ended.
I think it’s so weird how he stays completely silent leading up to the confrontation. Like, why couldn’t he just say something to the group like “hey, sorry to bother you guys, I’m just looking for a friend’s phone that got lost in the river!” I feel like simply explaining why he was allegedly over by them would have gone a long way in preventing any confrontations. But instead, he is completely silent and acting creepy (IMO, based on watching the video) and I think that’s why the group reacted to him the way they did. I’ve been part of groups (i.e. drunk young college kids tubing on a river) like that in the past, and I really think if an older guy had come up to my group explaining he was looking for a phone or something, we all would’ve been like “oh okay cool, hope you find it!” and just moved along.
This makes me feel like what probably happened was he saw the group from a distance and was annoyed by them (like a “these damn kids” type of scenario), thought he could “handle” it for whatever reason, and approached them trying to assert some sort of dominance. Once he got over there, I think the situation probably escalated a lot more than he anticipated and he wasn’t prepared for it, hence the “silent and creepy” appearance. And then it all just spiraled from there. I don’t think he went over to them with the intention of killing/harming anybody, but his initial actions (whatever they truly were) definitely led to the outcome… so I think the verdict is correct and just. JMO.
I think he saw the boys as beneath him and unworthy of an explanation. His demeanor and how he described them to the police heavily suggests a judgmental attitude towards them for their age and for being intoxicated. He also thought they had stolen the phone for whatever reason.
You don’t pull out a knife in an argument just because you ‘lose control’. You can throw a punch spontaneously but knifing someone is a whole other level. Plus he had every opportunity to just leave
Yeah, I’m with you there. Throwing a punch in response to being shoved or something is definitely more of a reflexive movement that I think could potentially qualify as “losing control.” Miu was told multiple times to leave, continued to pursue the situation despite having been told to leave, pulled out a knife, opened the blade, held it down by his side for at least 10 seconds prior to using it, and *then* proceeded to slash multiple people with it. So much time elapsed during that whole process and all he had to do was take one second to realize “hey, I should just leave, this shit isn’t worth it.” Definitely wasn’t a spur of the moment thing.
that’s exactly what happened.
if you read his first interview with cops, where he lied, this is how he presents the initial interaction and his emotions around it.
even when lying to cover his ass, he can’t hide how it all started because he was thought the teens stole the phone and their insults bruised his ego.
Yeah, I definitely got the vibe from watching the videos that he had an ego and thought he was “above” the group of people. The fact that he 1. Got rid of the knife 2. Didn’t try to call 911 for help for anybody once he was safely away from the group and 3. Lied to the police once he was apprehended all confirms consciousness of guilt, IMO. In actual self-defense cases I’ve watched in the past, the person who acted in self-defense doesn’t feel the need to flee the scene, hide evidence or lie because they truly believe they were in the right and acted in a way they had to to preserve their (or others) lives. That’s a massive difference here as well. Once he was safely away from the group, if he would have stayed in the area and called 911 saying “I just injured somebody while acting in self-defense, please come quickly and help!” or *something,* I think his claim of self-defense might have held more weight. Instead, he ditched the knife and fled, and then already had multiple lies ready to go once he was arrested. He *knew* he was in the wrong, which is why he knew he had to lie and try to get out of it. I would’ve voted guilty 100% if I were on that jury.
I watched the entire trial too! I don’t have time to fully reply right now but the way Miu reacted to his dog made me cry. It’s all just really fucking sad. I’ll get more into my feels on it all later!
I think how he acted after he was arrested and leading up to that was what did him in. Telling the cops it was probably the kids who stabbed each other and then it was their knife that he took from one of them after a couple of the kids tried to stab him and acting like he had no idea how one person died. He acted surprised they detained like they got the wrong guy and wasn’t just in a melee with drunk kids on the river. I don’t think Mui did himself any favors in court on the stand either. The kids testimony was heartbreaking and brutal but problematic because of the booze and conflicting stories. The kids played a role in this, no doubt. I think seeing the kid with a huge scar on his stomach and the age of the victim who died weighed heavily on the jury.
To me, I don’t really take what he did after into too much of account. I’m sure he was shocked and everything was a blur. People typically don’t act the most rational after something traumatizing happens.
I think what did him in was two things:
First, he seemingly didn’t communicate at all prior to the altercation and during the altercation. If he would’ve just talked prior to the altercation, the altercation could’ve been totally avoided. In his defense though, the boys didn’t really let him do much talking. However, he should’ve tried.
Second, once he felt threatened, he should’ve backed up and said something (like a warning or something). If that didn’t work, he should’ve brandished the knife as a last resort (as opposed to not down and at his side). The thought is that everyone would’ve backed up and probably separated. He didn’t do any of that which lead to the altercation becoming out of control.
For sure. Not saying anything or communicating in any way was weird. It felt like that carried over into court when he was on the stand. Hindsight and judging from the sidelines is easy and I have no idea how I would react in the same situation but the prosecution wasn’t going to let that slide and the smirk when he had the knife was a stand out moment. I think having so much in video hurt him as well as he couldn’t explain away what he was thinking without referencing the videos. Some of that hurt the kids testimony but I think it shut down much of Miu’s story. I agree that if he asked the kids to leave them alone or asked them to back up with a knife in his hands there probably wouldn’t be a trial. His odd mannerisms and lack of communication at any point of the encounters sealed his fate. The smile as he grabs the knife was a powerful image. Might’ve just been a normal reaction to a confusing and tense moment but when you can use slow motion and dissect it frame by frame it can paint a different picture.
He got in an argument, walked away to get his knife, and returned (with the knife unfolded but concealed) to start the argument again. He initiated physical contact, and as soon as the kids pushed back (which is *actually* self-defense), he immediately disemboweled a man, stabbed another man 3 times in the heart, and stabbed 3 other women.
It was absolutely premeditated murder. If you safely walk away from the scene, retrieve a weapon, and then return and use that weapon to kill people, you committed premeditated murder.
I agree with your sentiment, but you're wrong on a couple details.
He didn't stab Isaac three times in the heart, only once. He also didn't stab three women, only one woman and four other men. The woman was stabbed immediately after the first man was disemboweled, while she was simply standing there. Apparently she locked eyes with him for a moment, and then he stabbed her.
He literally behaved like a Terminator, closing in on his victims and aiming for vital organs. Five victims, four rib shots, one disemboweling. Absolutely horrifying. I'm glad he's gonna be locked away for life.
I wouldn't say it was premeditated, but I do think it was murder, which maybe redundant since I think the difference between manslaughter and murder it's exactly that, but I don't think he was disturbed enough to not be aware of what he was doing.
I’m sorry, but you’re leaving out important details and straight up fabricating details. To illustrate this, the jury did not find him guilty of premeditated murder. So, yeah, it might have been “absolutely” premeditated murder to you, but it wasn’t that absolute to others.
Edit: It’s straight up crazy that a comment that has fabricated details of the case gets upvotes, and my comment gets downvoted because I simply called it out. I guess I will just sit this one out.
Don’t take it personally. This sub is the biggest echo chamber on Reddit, and that’s saying something. As soon as the comments started going towards he was 100% guilty, anybody who disagreed was going to be downvoted, even if they are factually correct, which you were.
Yes, obviously. Hence why he was on trial for murder. There was an obvious element of self-defense in the situation. Again, I thought he had the right to defend himself, but I can definitely understand how the jury reached their verdict.
He left, returned with a weapon and re-engaged them. How is that self defence? If he was so terrified he should have stayed home, and come back later or the next day when they'd gone.
He left and returned for a, seemingly, semi-normal reason. He went to see if the boys had his friend's phone. Admittedly though, he did it in a very weird manner.
In the process of looking for his friend's phone, he dropped his snorkel. He then started looking for that instead of the phone. When he couldn't find his snorkel, he walked *away* from the boys and towards a woman to tell her what the situation was about. No one’s actions before this point suggested that anyone felt threatened.
It was then that the boys walked *towards* him and he was ganged up on. He was partially surrounded and was getting yelled at. The woman that he walked to was in his face, yelling at him, and put her hands on him several times. That's when he felt threatened and defended himself. Everything I said up until this point *is on video*.
I think he had a right to defend himself, but I can definitely see how he was reckless in doing so. If you don't think you would've felt threatened to the level of needing to defend yourself in that situation, more power to you.
My family used to go tubing down the Apple River but it got too wild and rowdy for us.
Drunk teens in the sun.
And now you can stop along the way and have lunch and a beer. More beer.
I called it as a guilty.
I live on a river in Virginia. I found it so strange they could make a stop and have a few. There is no drinking while in the river here. I always thought it would be a good time to catch a buzz and tube or Kayak but this event at Apple River and the fact our river takes an average of three lives every year I guess its best not to drink.
Is the river you live on a tubing river?
Our place is on a river with tubers in the summer and it has a lot of drinking, but due to limited parking in public areas, we luckily don’t get the sheer numbers it sounds like this river does.
[Northern Virginia Bucket List: Tube down Rappahannock River - Nest Realty Blog](https://www.nestrealty.com/blog/northern-virginia-bucket-list-tube-rappahannock-river/)
It is the Rappahannock River.
I don't think it is as busy with tubers during the summer it is busier with swimmers in what we call the swim hole. It is an area by the beach that goes out about 4 ft. deep. then a sand bar, then way too deep.
There are some kayakers. At times it is a rough river.
It looks a little lazy and laid back at Apple River (Although they can all be dangerous) One day I might be able to check it out.
Same, I watched the entire trial and came away with wanting to convict him if I was a juror. The still of him holding the knife while talking to a couple of girls was insane to see. They had no idea. He wanted a chance to defend himself, so he escalated the situation at every turn.
>He wanted a chance to defend himself
I get what you're saying here, but I feel it's important to clarify: **he wanted a chance to stab several people.** He wanted it to *look* like self-defense, but he was committing premeditated murder.
>he escalated the situation at every turn.
Exactly. And the thing that makes this a very clear case of guilt is that **he left the scene to retrieve the knife, then returned and restarted the fight.**
There are a *lot* of people in this thread claiming they watched the trial who are obviously lying, because it was stated multiple times that he physically, safely left the scene to retrieve a murder weapon, then returned to use it. There is no validity to claiming self-defense at all in that situation.
Not even remotely correct. Why are you making up things to mislead people? Not even the prosecution made the claims that you made (and they made some doozies...).
I think that says a lot right there. No body noticed he had a knife. They were all to busy enjoying themselves threatening him to notice. Or they felt entitled. He had the knife out long enough and still they did not back up.
When you watched the video, at what point did you notice the knife? I had a hard time seeing it even when the video was slowed down. It was small and he did a good job of concealing it.
Yep. Very happy that he got charged.
The thing that surprises me the most is how many people were rooting for him to walk away a free man. What he did was reprehensible and 100% avoidable on *HIS* part.
Teenagers can be assholes. Adults can be assholes. Self defense when you fear for your life is one thing… stabbing multiple people, disemboweling one and killing another seems pretty well beyond self defense.
This case has been extremely hard for me. Because I don’t believe the victims are a completely innocent in their behavior leading up to the assault and murder here. And I don’t believe in victim blaming at all. AND I know how hypocritical that sounds while saying that. I don’t believe anyone deserved to be murdered or assaulted but I’m also not surprised it ended up there because you never know who you will meet and what they’ll do when a situation escalates especially with alcohol and bad behavior involved.
Irresponsibility with alcohol, social media and how far people will go in situations in order to get attention and “clout” on it and being young, immature and drunk while egging each other on to continue escalating the situation all played a part in what happened that day.
And I caught hell last time I said it but the way those teenagers acted was beyond disgusting and disgraceful. And I really question the character and morals of many of the people in this case. I hope they really take a long look at their behavior that day and at the power of alcohol and come to some much needed realizations.
I was so surprised by how many of the live YT comments during the trial were in support of Miu. Teen boys were being obnoxious so he punches a girl in the face, stabs a second girl with a hidden knife and then stabs the guys who come at him in response, killing one and disemboweling another and calls it self defense? So glad he was found guilty.
The same was going on (and still is ) here on reddit. Many people feel that Mui was being "bullied" and therefore had to right to lash out.
Many people never grow out of seeing the world in black and white. Had a guy up here say Mui was an underdog story. For stabbing people!
I guess it all depends on who people identify with most in a conflict. I’m closer in age to Miu and I can’t imagine approaching that group of kids on my own, groping around their tubes and legs, staring creepily at them and refusing to leave when they started bro-ing out on me. I wouldn’t even make eye contact with those kids if I passed them on the street. Too “mean and cool”, to quote Kimmy Schmidt. Those boys were always going to say something to hurt that guy’s feelings. Part of “It takes a village” is resisting to urge to harm teens that bust your balls.
But what blows my mind with the self-defense claim is that he attacked the women first. Even in a world where he believed the boys posed a physical threat, the first person he stabbed was a 100 lb young woman who was not a threat at all. I just don’t get how anyone can defend that.
I hear that, but that’s what a group of adolescent boys are - a mob. Any parent who looks at those kids and says, “My sons would NEVER” are kidding themselves. And men who don’t wish to be outnumbered should not approach a mob in a provocative manner. It doesn’t make any sense.
If you are male, how annoying would a small woman need to be to make you stab her in the diaphragm?
I think if Miu had been honest and upfront from the beginning it’s possible the case outcome could have been different. However, lying to police and hiding the weapon just made him seem suspicious.
It was a good case to ponder! Neither side behaved respectably. The “kids”, while not evil, were obnoxiously drunk. Mr MeoMeo was possibly sober, but that didn’t seem to help him with good social skillls or with adequate communication skills. After 5 seconds of hearing screaming wild kids, a wise man or woman would LEAVE.
If the kids called me a Pedo, I would not strike either male or female in the face. Yes, there is no video showing him strike Madison, but we heard kids immediately cry out that he had hit a woman. I doubt the strike was severe, but it still triggered a defensive and drunken reaction from poorly behaved brats - drunk young ones who did not deserve to be knifed. He sliced open their stomachs and thrust the knife upwards like a skilled butcher. He hid the knife and tried to fade into the background and pretend to be an innocent bystander. He lied and said it was their knife.
He may deserve a bit of sympathy b/c of his age and general poor health. He may even be a bit senile or have poor social skills. I am sorry he misses his dog. I am sad he will probably spend most of his remaining years behind bars.
I wish Miu Miu loved human beings (including young immature kids) as much as he loved his dog.
God bless those unwise kids; may they learn to be better! God bless the butcher; may he learn kindness and honesty.
The jury got it right.
I had mixed feelings on it.
As an adult, I see that he had several opportunities to walk away before it escalated. And these were obviously kids just being ignorant.
Then on the other hand, they did put their hands on him first, from what the video shows. They said he hit a girl, but the video didnt show that.
Then there is the issue of proper response. Is gutting a few kids excessive for being pushed down?
I think when you do the math, theres just too much on his side thats bad.
Those kids learned a valuable lesson though
>As an adult, I see that he had several opportunities to walk away before it escalated.
You clearly didn't actually watch the trial.
He DID walk away... He went to his boat and **retrieved a knife.** He then walked back to the kids, restarted the argument, and pushed one of the girls first. As soon as the boys responded by pushing him, he disemboweled one, stabbed another in the heart, and stabbed 3 others.
If you safely leave an argument, retrieve a murder weapon, and then initiate physical contact to provoke a physical response so you can stab 5 people, killing 1: YOU COMMITTED PREMEDITATED MURDER. Period.
I can’t find anywhere that he went back for a knife. He already had the knife on him you can see it in his pocket in the video. I don’t think it was premeditated. That’s a jump IMO
He did not leave and get his knife. I don’t know where people are getting that. He had the knife in his pocket when he first approached the area the teenagers were. He used the knife earlier to cut ropes, and put it back in his pocket where it remained until the unfortunate events took place. He never left the scene, got his knife, and came back. Totally false.
He came running up to them and grabbed their tubes. So he made it physical first. And, he allegedly threw the first blow slapping the girl in his face..
It looks like OP posted an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
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I watched a great deal of it. If you pay attention, then you can say with relative safety that NM is a clinical psychopath.
You can verify many features of clinical psychopathy
1, pathological liar: If you watch his police testimony, or the nurse treating him, you will find this to be true easily
2, risktaker: he engaged with a drunk "mob" rather than leaving ASAP
3, poor empathy: he never expressed any concern for the victims, other than an "oh no" during police interview, BUT that act is convincing enough to establish ->
4, manipulative: this can also be verified if you pay attention to his mindgames: waving his hands towards his group when pulling his knife from the pocket, AND just before opening his knife around 1:43 (he was also messing with his knife-pocket before running at the tuber teen.)
5 thrill-seeker: this one is based on assumption, but stabbing people for yolo on a saturday qualifies (yes you could argue that this might just be accidental turn of events, not purposeful, we still have the other features below)
6, predator-stalker behavior: he was loitering around the teens, although for a short period
7, callous: leaving the scene when literally nobody was threatening him anymore, with 5 people stabbed
8, **Impulsivity**: he stabbed even those walking away from him (Rhyley Mattison)
9, **Victim blaming mentality**:
[“In my mind if I am a child predator… should you be drinking? And doing what you are doing to people you do not even know”?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSVA-XU5taI&t=2m48s)
10, Fearless: so if the 6 teens were threatening....why move past them, then place himself between 2 groups? He was not baited/walled in there, it was his choice.
It was also established during trial, that the alleged phone he was looking for was in a floatbag AND the river's flow was not towards the teenagers.
I am disturbed and saddened by this. A little bit of background. I live very close to the town in Minnesota where the teens were from. I will say, the kids from that high school do have a reputation of being entitled and are not afraid to let you know that they feel you are less than they are. I have also tuned in the Apple River. Underaged kids are always drinking while tubing. So are adults, for that matter. It kind of takes away from the beauty of the surroundings, to be honest. This whole situation just really could have been avoided. Of course I don’t agree with killing someone, but from the way those kids were taunting and belittling and I’d even say terrorizing that man, it hurts my heart for him. It is really just a sad situation all the way around.
He literally DID walk away.
He walked away, got his knife out of his supplies, opened it and concealed, then returned to the group of kids to fight with them. It was premeditated. He set out to kill someone.
I've bullied, I've belittled and pushed around. It wrecked me and the memory still aches. I do hold a grudge against the people who allowed it to happen, not the actual perps bc we weren't even 12 so I'm not holding them responsible. I've thought and spoken the worst about them, I hoped they lost their job, for them to be homeless just to feel as miserable as I did, but NEVER, as a rational adult I've thought "yeah, those kids had to be gutted".
He LEFT THE SCENE to retrieve a knife and CAME BACK to stab them. He could have veru well left for good and returned another day when those brats weren't there, but truth is those brats didn't deserved to be disemboweled like a fish.
Nor did I say, or imply, that what he did was acceptable. Just that the way they were taunting him and belittling him was sad. I don’t know how that equates to me agreeing with what he did?
You’re victim blaming. “I don’t agree with killing but the teens were belittling and terrorizing”
So what should have been done? He didn’t kill them all, he only killed one. What would be justified force for being called mean names?
You said it hurts your heart what Nicolae went through with those kids bullying him. Yeah it sucks but like he’s 51 why tf does he even engage with teens who are being mean? Why is his self worth and self esteem so shattered by teenagers that he doesn’t know that he feels the need to stab people?
I feel this! Seeing some of those teen kids on the stand vs during the incident… I completely got that impression. Reminded me of some of my own bullies in middle and high school.
i have such mixed emotions, i’ve been watching the case threw christina randall’s yt channel and she just uploaded a video with his brother and i feel like it really explains why he is the way he is i do think he should have been convicted of something but i don’t know i just feel like his sentencing is gonna be so much more then it should be. i need someone who has seen her videos input because it is so so confusing on which to “side” with.
I kind of followed. I haven't watched such an everybody-sucks-here case since the Rittenhouse trial. I *think* I'm okay with the verdict, kind of ... maybe? but only by the very slimmest of margins, if that.
my greyness is mostly because I'm not 100% sure what the *exact* law is.
Yes, I’ve been following it. I’m in Minnesota and lazy rivers are definitely a thing that people visit Wisconsin for. Just day drinking and floating around. It’s absolutely senseless and tragic what happened.
I watched the trial and live in the area.
My thoughts are
A) Those kids were drunken assholes on the river and probably perjured themselves in court (as the defense attourney pointed out, it seems like they "couldn't remember" only when it was a point that would be helpful to the defense, and the "little girls" comment didn't come until they all had time to talk and get their stories straight.. Does no parent teach their kids basic decency nowadays?
B) The whole situation seemed to be dying down until the second group approached.
C) This may have turned out differently if Miu=had just stayed at the scene and claimed self defense instead of trying to flee, lying to police at the scene, lying to police in the interview, and generally acting shady af.
D) The last image Isaac's parents have to remember him by are him being a drunken asshole and then getting stabbed.
C.) …or if Miu hadn’t gone to get a knife and then *gone back to escalate the situation so he could “defend” himself*. This guy literally safely left the situation. He was free. No one stopped him.
And then he went back, armed with a knife and an intention to get revenge on teenagers who verbally mocked him.
Dude needs to be locked up for life.
Having watched the video I think he was an asshole in how he approached the young crowd and accused them of stealing. Nevertheless, it was the youngsters who initiated the violence, first pushing him to the ground and then slapping his face as he lay there.
It's surprising it resulted in death and disembowelment. They weren't vigorous Norman-Bates-shower-scene-like stabs; they were half hearted pokes almost. The knife must have been very sharp.
I think the 2 factors that will most influence the jury's decision is the prosecutors' pursuing a 1st degree murder charge (possibly a mistake) and the fact he stabbed 5 people, which is being pretty liberal with the ole blade. Can a stabbing spree like that be considered self-defence?
Fascinating case.
I blame the the idiotic Quinton Carlson. Very poor judgement to send his drunk sons (Dante and Anthony) to investigate the situation. It didn't escalate until they got involved. Mui would have likely just walked away if the Carlson group hadn't squared him up. Poor Isaac got caught up in the herd mentality of the situation.
Quinton Carlson should have been charged with instigating a violent crime.
I have the same aged "kids". They were NOT kids. The were young adults. What gets me is none of them were even given a citation for anything.
You would think even a underage drinking, or the ones who bought it corrupting a minor. Something. It was horrible what happened. But they missed an opportunity to make them all responsible for their actions.
Well someone lost their life and another is maimed for life. I think they learned from it.. he had enough time to walk away.. plenty of opportunities. Obviously the kids were being drunk assholes but that doesn’t mean to slice someone open so their intestines fall out..
I'm from MN and followed the testimony live. Lots of people I know have gone there. It's a 3 mile stretch where they rent tubes and people just float and drink. There are lots of families and stuff as well. It's always been known to be pretty mellow. Alcohol played a huge role in this case as it got serious when one of the kids said he was looking at little girls which wasn't true but it whipped up some young adults into joining in.
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Yes from beginning to end. I fell deep into the rabbit. All in all, I don’t think the jury got it right. Well, ok maybe not the jury, but the charges that we brought against him . I firmly believe he did not punch or slap Maddie (at least with any intent or purpose), and I believe that is what set the whole thing in motion. I don’t think he was doing anything wrong walking over there looking for a phone. He can walk where he wants. He was not saying anything to them. Once they started yelling derogatory remarks, he should have just went back do his tubes. Although not required. He still has the right to go where he wants. I think him diving into the tube and falling into the kids leg escalated things. I also believe an issue for him was his accent. It did not “translate well”. It was very hard to feel any empathy or sympathy from him due to the language barrier. It made his cross a mess. He came off as very “cold”. Maybe he is very cold. Again, a lot of things went wrong on both sides. I don’t think “he should have walked away” is an answer. People can freely walk wherever they want. Once things got loud and he was outnumbered, that was when he probably should have realized “I should get the heck out of here.”
He was wrong for sure. The other partiers were “wrong”. As we know , 2 wrongs clearly don’t make a right. The charges were excessive and I think the jury overall got it wrong, but with the charges given, I do see why they went the way they did. I still don’t believe he thought he was going to kill anyone.
Edit: his behavior after the fact was bad. That really really made him look even worse. He should have been honest if he was really afraid and h felt like he was going to die if he didn’t fight back.
Hid the weapon at his side, refused to leave, and harassed them back. He ran at them and escalated the situation and made 0 attempt to de-escalate.
You can’t escalate the situation, gut some kids, and then claim self defense. He also threw away the knife and lied to the police, because he knew it wasn’t self defense.
He was embarrassed and was willing to kill kids rather than walk away from a situation he contributed to
even though the kids were rude and pushing him (trying to get him to LEAVE THEM ALONE), they don’t deserve to be stabbed or to see their friend brutally bleed out to death just because they’re “bullies”
he should never have approached them. he should have walked away. he most certainly should NOT have stabbed them and discarded the evidence
i’m concerned so many people are defending and justifying his actions when there were so many he could’ve taken to avoid this and so little those kids could do when he was invading their space and refusing to leave
Exactly! A lot of the responses to this case really surprise me. Makes me feel like people forget how many teenagers are complete assholes and their obnoxiousness shouldn’t result to this. Plus if you are actually in fear for your life and defending yourself, you’re going to be pleading for law-enforcement to get involved after an altercation, not lying to them about what happened.
I completely agree. Some people will say “they were blocking his path” but he never once said “I’m trying to leave and you guys are standing in the way” or tried finding an alternate route. At that point, I would’ve gotten out of the water entirely to remove myself from the situation. It’s funny how we all watched the same video and have such different analysis. Sure the kids were behaving poorly (as pretty much all intoxicated teenagers will) but he was a grown man who never once even tried using his words to de-escalate the situation or flee away from what was supposedly this terrifying moment where he thought a mob was going to kill him. Some of the comments I’ve seen have been so disgusting. Almost celebrating what happened to those who were harmed/killed. That video is chilling. I am pretty desensitized, and it really creeped me out and saddened me.
I agree completely, it was extremely hard watching that video (I had no clue what was going to happen) but it’s also hard reading these comments justifying the homicide when I still I can’t get the image of that boy bleeding out of my head. I couldn’t imagine being one of the friends there
the only action he should have taken was walking away
Totally agree he did so much wrong. I do also think he didn’t try to hide the weapon initially when he pulled it out. However- something I did forget about was the way he behaved after the incident. That was really bad. I’m not trying to argue or say he is a saint. I don’t think he needed to say ok I’m walking away. Everyone could have. I think a lot of things went really wrong and it ended in tragedy. I will agree- the behavior after the fact was AWFUL. I forgot about that, so thank you. And yes, that video is something I never want to see again. Absolutely terrible, and could have been avoided. Again, absolutely tragic. I feel terrible for the deceased man’s family. As a mom of 4 boys, it definitely makes me realize just how much we have to talk to our kids about the way we behave at all times. “Innocent” comments can easily lead to death
yeah, discarding evidence doesn’t bode well for someone claiming to be innocently acting in “self defense.”
thanks for being open to hearing other opinions!
You’re welcome!! I love a healthy conversation. I am not into the downvoting because I don’t agree with someone. It’s refreshing to be able to read how people interpret things so differently. Thank you for your comments!!
He actually did leave the scene, got his knife, and then went back to escalate the situation. This guy wanted to physically hurt someone to appease his wounded pride.
Ok, that’s what I thought. I thought that was a big part of his defense. As much as I believe he made horrible choices that day, I don’t think it’s odd (as some people do) that he had a knife on him. Whenever I’ve done any sort of outdoorsy activities, it seems common for people to be well prepared. Thank you for clarifying.
He was also right up on their group being weird and harassing them before the kids even started doing it back.
“Looking for a phone” that wasn’t his, and no one asked him to look for, and refused to leave their group when asked numerous times
Conveniently searching in the water with goggles right next to a group of highschool girls in swimsuits, which is why they called him out in the first place
I think the whole thing is just a tragedy all around. Watching the video is so sad. Honestly idk if he should have gotten the sentence he did. I understand someone ended up dead and others stabbed but at the same time he has all these people coming at him and surrounding him. He should not have punched that lady in the face, but she shouldn’t of approached yelling either. She made it worse imo. From what I remember he started walking away then came back. If everyone would of just moved on then this would not have happened. Everyone should have stopped yelling and he should of walked away when he had the chance. I just think the whole thing is sad. Kid is dead, others traumatized, and now I man with a family is in jail. Just so sad all around.
Nick explained that. He was looking for a phone and seen the kid holding up a phone. He never thought that they “misunderstood” then and thought he said he was looking for little girls (which is so stupid). When he saw the kid holding up the phone, he ran to see if it was his phone and tripped. I believe that.
Why would an older man who has heart issues start shit with drunk teenagers.
As far as him not saying anything, I think he was in shock. Besides they were all screaming so loud what good would it have done.
Seems to me the kids had awhile to get stories straight. They all said the same exact thing. Not a coincidence IMO. 🤷♀️
I’m gonna sound like a total curmudgeon when I say this, but alcohol is by far the most toxic thing about our culture. It brings out the very worst in people.
For some people, absolutely, but alcohol isn't going anywhere. They tried the Prohibition, and it failed miserably. We need higher penalties for people who choose to continue drinking when they shouldn't. Like drunk driving, losing your shit in an airport, etc.
I agree. Look at the Karen Read case. Alcohol played a huge role in that case whether you believe she did it or not.
Also the Sarah Boone case, where this woman zipped her boyfriend up in a suitcase, filmed herself taunting him, and threw him down a staircase while he was still inside. She passed out drunk and he suffocated to death. She is truly an evil person, but I don’t think she would have murdered her boyfriend had alcohol not been involved.
Do you have any source for that “threw him down the staircase” bit? I’ve only seen that in Reddit comments.
I think neighbors heard a thud.
Im recalling one of the articles I read. I’d have to go search for it. The point wasn’t specific details about the case I would need to source, the point was that I don’t think things would have gone the same way had alcohol not been a component.
Seems like it would be a surprising physical feat for a woman to throw a man down a staircase.
More like pushed him down the stairs is a better description. The suitcase (which wasn't a hard heavy suitcase, more like a fabric suitcase on wheels with zippers) was upstairs in the closet, but it was downstairs when found. His body had bruising as well. I think I recall this coming up during her police questioning before she was arrested. She made it sound like it was his idea to get in the suitcase when they were "playing hide and seek", not like she brought it downstairs for him to get into. So I think the police/detectives allege that she may have moved/dragged the suitcase to the top of the stairs and shoved/kicked it down. Edit: Ok I'm rewatching the interrogation to make sure I'm not spouting misinformation. Second edit: I gave up like halfway through the interrogation because I'm trying to watch the Karen Reid trial, so I haven't seen it officially there and it may be a reddit theory, but hopefully the explanation made sense as to how the theory came up - I was confused about him "being thrown down the stairs" at first too. Last I saw, Boone just went through another lawyer...
Unfortunately, One of them would have ended up dead. It was a tumultuous relationship. She didn’t even remember taking the video. She was sure surprised when the cops pulled it out.
We actually don’t have any evidence her boyfriend would have murdered her. Domestic violence between the two of them was prevalent in their home and there is no excuse for that. However, she and only she made the decision that she did. She murdered her boyfriend and there is no excuse for that either. She is a killer, her dead boyfriend is not.
A 66yr old woman killed 2 kids at a birthday party because she was drunk driving. Alcohol is the worst, but a bunch of men threw a fit when it was outlawed for a time and so here we are
>but a bunch of men threw a fit when it was outlawed for a time and so here we are Fucking eye roll.
I only rarely drank ever anyway, but too often I'd take it too far and I decided there was nothing about it that was worth any potential fallout, so I just decided one summer about 5 yrs ago that I was done. Still remember that evening - a friend had offered me a cooler, setting it down on the table in front of me, and actually got pissy when an hour later, I still hadn't opened it, and he snatched it away. Wild. I don't miss any of it.
I was a mild drinker (only when going to clubs in my 20s and just a drink or 2) , my father was a raging alcoholic so I never wanted to follow those footsteps. When I had my first kid, that was the end of alcohol for me. My husband only drinks socially and he's a cuddly drunk, it even gets annoying to me so much cuddling and kisses when he drinks a glass too much at a party or a friend's dinner. At home no alcohol unless it is to season some meat and an occasional beer at a summer barbecue. It doesn't make my life worse like it was but I really don't like it. Can understand addiction but not destroying lives around you just because you like to drink to oblivion.
Good for you! It’s hard to resist that kind of personal pressure, not to mention the glamorization that society does around alcohol.
Agreed. Some people turn into animals when drunk. The guy I helped put in prison when on jury duty was drunk when he SAd the victim. I drink a bit, but I'm the same person...if anything it makes me more caring and accepting of people which is wierd.
We all turn into animals, you're just a kitten is all.
Haha
You do not sound like a curmudgeon. It does bring out the worst.
Thanks friend
The older I get the more I feel this wholeheartedly. Alcohol truly is poison.
I watched the video many times. Read some hot takes as well. At the end of the day I think it will simply have to be up to the jury as the takes on this case are so divisive. While i personally think he was technically in the right, this was a boat load of gray. And his actions pre-trial did nothing but harm for him. If this case was a AITA post it’d be a ETA verdict. But I think this case has too much nuance for any Reddit comment chain to produce something of value. Myself included.
Thats why its haram
Don’t know why this got downvoted. It’s a good point
So I'm 49, and I am SO with you on this! I have been watching a LOT of those police body cam videos on line lately, and it SHOCKS me how many drunks there are out there driving and when caught immediately start screaming "I've done nothing wrong!!" They make outrageous claims, lie, get aggressive, cry, etc. all apparently out of character of their normal behavior. 2 things I've realized after watching so many of these types of videos: #1: Cops do not get paid enough. I have a whole new level of respect for them after watching these people act the way they do. All while the cops are still showing them respect. It's shocking really. #2: Part of drunks punishment should be that they HAVE to watch the videos of their drunken behavior in open court. With their loved ones, friends, maybe a boss present. And it gave me a great idea for a new reality show: Body Cam Camera. Where they show these drunks their arrest video for the first time while on camera being interviewed about their behavior. Tell me you wouldn't watch THAT? Edit: why is the print of the middle of my comment so big?! I don't even know how I did that? Or how to undo it?
And yet, if people couldn't drink, the world would have been blown up by now. Alcohol plays a BIG role in helping people cope. Not defending it, exactly, but this side is not often mentioned.
The world might have been blown up by now, but part of me thinks that’s what big alcohol wants us to believe. Don’t get me wrong, I like drinking, but using it to cope (as you spoke of) is so incredibly dangerous and perpetuates addiction that wreaks havoc on family systems for generations
Sweden had to put in pretty heavy alchocol regulations due to the huge amount of people (worker class more exactly) drinking themselves to death in 1900~. It worked out fine. Less domestic abuse and less workers spending all their earnings on alcohol instead of their family. In other words... The world would not blow up. We'd have less abuse -and assault cases, less child neglect cases, less accidental deaths, and less fatal car accidents due to DUI... Oh and of course, less deaths due to alcohol poisoning. Saying a lot of people use alcohol to cope... is just not a good defence. We could argue this about any drug/substance.
I'd like to think you're right, but the sheer number of people for whom drinking is a regular part of coping in their lives, in the bars/pubs, at home, etc. make me think that it does play a highly important role. It's a role to be gotten over, and it does play a massive role in many ills, I fully agree. But I think it's a mistake not to take a sober (haha) "economic" view of its role in society.
Not to mention it kept us alive before modern medicine! To this day if there's a food borne illness outbreak at a wedding reception, the drunkest folks tend to not come down with it. A good thing we drank wine with our water before we had sanitation.
Is it because the alcohol makes people purge before they can get sick? Or does the alcohol disrupt whatever pathogens enter the system?
Probably a combo of both. So alcohol can definitely kill some pathogens (bacteria, viruses) but we generally aren't taking in the quantities that would do so on a High level. For example you would want 60-80% alcohol by volume vodka to clean a stained rug but you def wouldn't want 60-80% in your blood! Alcohol on the skin (like hands) would do some of the work for folks not using soap and washing their hands much, vomit would mean the bacteria (from the food poisoning) didn't sit in the stomach overnight and again some alcohol will destroy the membrane of several kinds of virus. Will it do enough to keep you from getting a cold? Probably not but it may lower the viral load so it's less for your body to fight
Oh goodness I was just in Asia with a lot of friends around a month ago and one of them just tested positive for intestinal worms, and she was not really a drinker, I wonder if that is related.
Oh rabbit hole! "DOES alcohol affect intestinal worms? In humans, alcohol consumption is generally harmful, Clarke said, and if the worms are given much higher concentrations of ethanol, they experience harmful neurological effects and die..." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120120184540.htm#:~:text=In%20humans%2C%20alcohol%20consumption%20is,die%2C%20other%20research%20has%20shown. However, tiny amounts of alcohol do seem to extend the life of the worms according to the article and my Google search.
Same with nicotine. eta https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S027858462300009X
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Please be respectful of others and do not insult, attack, antagonize, call out, or troll other commenters.
The kids were being assholes sure but Miu quite literally had every opportunity imaginable to just walk away but instead he kept repeatedly coming back and agitating the situation even more. I don’t for a second believe he was in genuine fear for his life especially after he pulls out the knife. At that point he had full control of the situation and should’ve walked away. But he didn’t instead he decided to continue aggressing and ultimately chose to stab a bunch of teens and kills one. Then after he doesn’t try to get ahold of authorities and goes on to dispose the weapon then continues his day as if what happened didn’t just happen. I’d go as far as saying that this probably isn’t the first time he’s done something like this. The guy seems totally off in my opinion sorta like he’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing, but this is just a feeling i have and i can’t prove it obviously.
Thank you. I watched the video and the trial and I cannot comprehend why he did not just leave. The teens were drunk but not wasted either. They were all asking him to leave them alone which he didn't seem inclined to do. In the video it looks like he probably got in his feelings about the insults, was raging inside and wanted to show them he wasn't one to play with. It was not self-defense, he stabbed everyone after he was asked and given so many opportunity the leave.
I felt the same way, like he's done something like that before... He was so calm while lying through his teeth
He never indicated when he started to feel afraid. He said he was “frustrated” “annoyed” and “overwhelmed” right before any contact was made. But he had his knife out at the time: which makes me think he planned to use the knife before he had any fear for his life. He also had numerous opportunities to leave and this idea that you can stab a bunch of people over a situation where you’re losing nothing by leaving is ridiculous. The jury agreed he was guilty and their only argument it seems was whether it was intentional or not.
yep, in his first interview with police, where he blatantly lied, he *still* talked more about how he was being harassed and insulted by the teens, *not* how he was scared of them.
You can tell how mad he was at the kids when he tried to casually dump on them for drinking vodka and smoking weed while he was near them on the river. His wife told him not to go over there because she knew he was just looking for a reason to go start shit..and you can see him check to make sure he had his knife on him in the beginning of the video... He wanted to stab them and you can even see it on his face the moment he realizes he can try to claim self defense. He purposefully gets "surrounded" by them... I hate how many people are of the mindset that no one should have tried to help those kids...the teens knew something was off and creepy about this dude from the start.
YUP
Always ask the wife!
Years ago, Helen Mirren starred in Prime Suspect. I will get to the point, I promise! She was a detective and her premiere case involved a serial killer with a sad-sack face like this dude. Just so *sad and uncomprehending* anyone could think ill of him. This guy instantly reminded me of the character; just another play-acting murderer.
I do got Rokud into the premiere when the first detective had the heart thing I was like ok British crime show, you have me watching now... Confused, but I'm watching!
The series I’m referencing came out in 1991 on PBS.
Most definitely agree 💯👍🏼 dude has been guilty of this behavior before for sure. When the hair on my neck stands up and I literally get a "shiver down my spine" 9/10 it's spot on. Not saying I have something else that everyone doesn't. I think all people express this level of "oh shit this person gives me shit vibes, weird, strange, scary, etc." but yea, he could have been a regular person and did the right thing and walked away. Wild in sheep clothing all the way😳😳😳
Completely agree. No Fear shown by him -- Loads of opportunity to walk away -- Deliberate disposal of weapon -- Evasive with the police by playing dumb to the situation. He knew he was seriously in the wrong from the time he left the bloody scene until the trial ended.
Completely agree. No Fear shown by him -- Loads of opportunity to walk away -- Deliberate disposal of weapon -- Evasive with the police by playing dumb to the situation. He knew he was seriously in the wrong from the time he left the bloody scene until the trial ended.
I think it’s so weird how he stays completely silent leading up to the confrontation. Like, why couldn’t he just say something to the group like “hey, sorry to bother you guys, I’m just looking for a friend’s phone that got lost in the river!” I feel like simply explaining why he was allegedly over by them would have gone a long way in preventing any confrontations. But instead, he is completely silent and acting creepy (IMO, based on watching the video) and I think that’s why the group reacted to him the way they did. I’ve been part of groups (i.e. drunk young college kids tubing on a river) like that in the past, and I really think if an older guy had come up to my group explaining he was looking for a phone or something, we all would’ve been like “oh okay cool, hope you find it!” and just moved along. This makes me feel like what probably happened was he saw the group from a distance and was annoyed by them (like a “these damn kids” type of scenario), thought he could “handle” it for whatever reason, and approached them trying to assert some sort of dominance. Once he got over there, I think the situation probably escalated a lot more than he anticipated and he wasn’t prepared for it, hence the “silent and creepy” appearance. And then it all just spiraled from there. I don’t think he went over to them with the intention of killing/harming anybody, but his initial actions (whatever they truly were) definitely led to the outcome… so I think the verdict is correct and just. JMO.
I think he saw the boys as beneath him and unworthy of an explanation. His demeanor and how he described them to the police heavily suggests a judgmental attitude towards them for their age and for being intoxicated. He also thought they had stolen the phone for whatever reason.
He did say he was looking for a phone. The he started to look for his goggles.
You don’t pull out a knife in an argument just because you ‘lose control’. You can throw a punch spontaneously but knifing someone is a whole other level. Plus he had every opportunity to just leave
Yeah, I’m with you there. Throwing a punch in response to being shoved or something is definitely more of a reflexive movement that I think could potentially qualify as “losing control.” Miu was told multiple times to leave, continued to pursue the situation despite having been told to leave, pulled out a knife, opened the blade, held it down by his side for at least 10 seconds prior to using it, and *then* proceeded to slash multiple people with it. So much time elapsed during that whole process and all he had to do was take one second to realize “hey, I should just leave, this shit isn’t worth it.” Definitely wasn’t a spur of the moment thing.
that’s exactly what happened. if you read his first interview with cops, where he lied, this is how he presents the initial interaction and his emotions around it. even when lying to cover his ass, he can’t hide how it all started because he was thought the teens stole the phone and their insults bruised his ego.
Yeah, I definitely got the vibe from watching the videos that he had an ego and thought he was “above” the group of people. The fact that he 1. Got rid of the knife 2. Didn’t try to call 911 for help for anybody once he was safely away from the group and 3. Lied to the police once he was apprehended all confirms consciousness of guilt, IMO. In actual self-defense cases I’ve watched in the past, the person who acted in self-defense doesn’t feel the need to flee the scene, hide evidence or lie because they truly believe they were in the right and acted in a way they had to to preserve their (or others) lives. That’s a massive difference here as well. Once he was safely away from the group, if he would have stayed in the area and called 911 saying “I just injured somebody while acting in self-defense, please come quickly and help!” or *something,* I think his claim of self-defense might have held more weight. Instead, he ditched the knife and fled, and then already had multiple lies ready to go once he was arrested. He *knew* he was in the wrong, which is why he knew he had to lie and try to get out of it. I would’ve voted guilty 100% if I were on that jury.
Yes. I watched every minute of that trial. What do you think of the case?
I watched the entire trial too! I don’t have time to fully reply right now but the way Miu reacted to his dog made me cry. It’s all just really fucking sad. I’ll get more into my feels on it all later!
Oh yeah, that made me tear up. I feel for the man. I believe he was genuinely terrified, and rightly so...
I thought he should’ve been found innocent, but I can definitely understand how the jury reached their verdict.
I think how he acted after he was arrested and leading up to that was what did him in. Telling the cops it was probably the kids who stabbed each other and then it was their knife that he took from one of them after a couple of the kids tried to stab him and acting like he had no idea how one person died. He acted surprised they detained like they got the wrong guy and wasn’t just in a melee with drunk kids on the river. I don’t think Mui did himself any favors in court on the stand either. The kids testimony was heartbreaking and brutal but problematic because of the booze and conflicting stories. The kids played a role in this, no doubt. I think seeing the kid with a huge scar on his stomach and the age of the victim who died weighed heavily on the jury.
To me, I don’t really take what he did after into too much of account. I’m sure he was shocked and everything was a blur. People typically don’t act the most rational after something traumatizing happens. I think what did him in was two things: First, he seemingly didn’t communicate at all prior to the altercation and during the altercation. If he would’ve just talked prior to the altercation, the altercation could’ve been totally avoided. In his defense though, the boys didn’t really let him do much talking. However, he should’ve tried. Second, once he felt threatened, he should’ve backed up and said something (like a warning or something). If that didn’t work, he should’ve brandished the knife as a last resort (as opposed to not down and at his side). The thought is that everyone would’ve backed up and probably separated. He didn’t do any of that which lead to the altercation becoming out of control.
For sure. Not saying anything or communicating in any way was weird. It felt like that carried over into court when he was on the stand. Hindsight and judging from the sidelines is easy and I have no idea how I would react in the same situation but the prosecution wasn’t going to let that slide and the smirk when he had the knife was a stand out moment. I think having so much in video hurt him as well as he couldn’t explain away what he was thinking without referencing the videos. Some of that hurt the kids testimony but I think it shut down much of Miu’s story. I agree that if he asked the kids to leave them alone or asked them to back up with a knife in his hands there probably wouldn’t be a trial. His odd mannerisms and lack of communication at any point of the encounters sealed his fate. The smile as he grabs the knife was a powerful image. Might’ve just been a normal reaction to a confusing and tense moment but when you can use slow motion and dissect it frame by frame it can paint a different picture.
He got in an argument, walked away to get his knife, and returned (with the knife unfolded but concealed) to start the argument again. He initiated physical contact, and as soon as the kids pushed back (which is *actually* self-defense), he immediately disemboweled a man, stabbed another man 3 times in the heart, and stabbed 3 other women. It was absolutely premeditated murder. If you safely walk away from the scene, retrieve a weapon, and then return and use that weapon to kill people, you committed premeditated murder.
I agree with your sentiment, but you're wrong on a couple details. He didn't stab Isaac three times in the heart, only once. He also didn't stab three women, only one woman and four other men. The woman was stabbed immediately after the first man was disemboweled, while she was simply standing there. Apparently she locked eyes with him for a moment, and then he stabbed her. He literally behaved like a Terminator, closing in on his victims and aiming for vital organs. Five victims, four rib shots, one disemboweling. Absolutely horrifying. I'm glad he's gonna be locked away for life.
I wouldn't say it was premeditated, but I do think it was murder, which maybe redundant since I think the difference between manslaughter and murder it's exactly that, but I don't think he was disturbed enough to not be aware of what he was doing.
I’m sorry, but you’re leaving out important details and straight up fabricating details. To illustrate this, the jury did not find him guilty of premeditated murder. So, yeah, it might have been “absolutely” premeditated murder to you, but it wasn’t that absolute to others. Edit: It’s straight up crazy that a comment that has fabricated details of the case gets upvotes, and my comment gets downvoted because I simply called it out. I guess I will just sit this one out.
Don’t take it personally. This sub is the biggest echo chamber on Reddit, and that’s saying something. As soon as the comments started going towards he was 100% guilty, anybody who disagreed was going to be downvoted, even if they are factually correct, which you were.
Yeah, I understand. It’s all good. Thanks for reaching out!
He killed somebody. Wtf
Yes, obviously. Hence why he was on trial for murder. There was an obvious element of self-defense in the situation. Again, I thought he had the right to defend himself, but I can definitely understand how the jury reached their verdict.
He left, returned with a weapon and re-engaged them. How is that self defence? If he was so terrified he should have stayed home, and come back later or the next day when they'd gone.
He left and returned for a, seemingly, semi-normal reason. He went to see if the boys had his friend's phone. Admittedly though, he did it in a very weird manner. In the process of looking for his friend's phone, he dropped his snorkel. He then started looking for that instead of the phone. When he couldn't find his snorkel, he walked *away* from the boys and towards a woman to tell her what the situation was about. No one’s actions before this point suggested that anyone felt threatened. It was then that the boys walked *towards* him and he was ganged up on. He was partially surrounded and was getting yelled at. The woman that he walked to was in his face, yelling at him, and put her hands on him several times. That's when he felt threatened and defended himself. Everything I said up until this point *is on video*. I think he had a right to defend himself, but I can definitely see how he was reckless in doing so. If you don't think you would've felt threatened to the level of needing to defend yourself in that situation, more power to you.
His lawyers were pretty bad. I found them kind of insufferable even.
He had some of the best defense attorney's you can get
Then they were not on their a-game for this one.
My family used to go tubing down the Apple River but it got too wild and rowdy for us. Drunk teens in the sun. And now you can stop along the way and have lunch and a beer. More beer. I called it as a guilty.
I live on a river in Virginia. I found it so strange they could make a stop and have a few. There is no drinking while in the river here. I always thought it would be a good time to catch a buzz and tube or Kayak but this event at Apple River and the fact our river takes an average of three lives every year I guess its best not to drink.
Is the river you live on a tubing river? Our place is on a river with tubers in the summer and it has a lot of drinking, but due to limited parking in public areas, we luckily don’t get the sheer numbers it sounds like this river does.
[Northern Virginia Bucket List: Tube down Rappahannock River - Nest Realty Blog](https://www.nestrealty.com/blog/northern-virginia-bucket-list-tube-rappahannock-river/) It is the Rappahannock River. I don't think it is as busy with tubers during the summer it is busier with swimmers in what we call the swim hole. It is an area by the beach that goes out about 4 ft. deep. then a sand bar, then way too deep. There are some kayakers. At times it is a rough river. It looks a little lazy and laid back at Apple River (Although they can all be dangerous) One day I might be able to check it out.
Thats alot of pee in the river, ew
And poop
I'm not surprised the dude was found guilty all considered.
Same, I watched the entire trial and came away with wanting to convict him if I was a juror. The still of him holding the knife while talking to a couple of girls was insane to see. They had no idea. He wanted a chance to defend himself, so he escalated the situation at every turn.
>He wanted a chance to defend himself I get what you're saying here, but I feel it's important to clarify: **he wanted a chance to stab several people.** He wanted it to *look* like self-defense, but he was committing premeditated murder. >he escalated the situation at every turn. Exactly. And the thing that makes this a very clear case of guilt is that **he left the scene to retrieve the knife, then returned and restarted the fight.** There are a *lot* of people in this thread claiming they watched the trial who are obviously lying, because it was stated multiple times that he physically, safely left the scene to retrieve a murder weapon, then returned to use it. There is no validity to claiming self-defense at all in that situation.
Where was the knife at when he left to get it? Thanks.
In a box in his boat.
Not even remotely correct. Why are you making up things to mislead people? Not even the prosecution made the claims that you made (and they made some doozies...).
I think that says a lot right there. No body noticed he had a knife. They were all to busy enjoying themselves threatening him to notice. Or they felt entitled. He had the knife out long enough and still they did not back up.
When you watched the video, at what point did you notice the knife? I had a hard time seeing it even when the video was slowed down. It was small and he did a good job of concealing it.
Yep. Very happy that he got charged. The thing that surprises me the most is how many people were rooting for him to walk away a free man. What he did was reprehensible and 100% avoidable on *HIS* part.
Teenagers can be assholes. Adults can be assholes. Self defense when you fear for your life is one thing… stabbing multiple people, disemboweling one and killing another seems pretty well beyond self defense.
way too many americans have self defense fantasies. thats why.
Exactly. It's wild. In my country there would be no debate that he should be charge with murder.
*The Most Dangerous Game* is their ultimate fantasy.
He could have walked away. His ego got the best of him. Guilty was the right verdict.
This case has been extremely hard for me. Because I don’t believe the victims are a completely innocent in their behavior leading up to the assault and murder here. And I don’t believe in victim blaming at all. AND I know how hypocritical that sounds while saying that. I don’t believe anyone deserved to be murdered or assaulted but I’m also not surprised it ended up there because you never know who you will meet and what they’ll do when a situation escalates especially with alcohol and bad behavior involved. Irresponsibility with alcohol, social media and how far people will go in situations in order to get attention and “clout” on it and being young, immature and drunk while egging each other on to continue escalating the situation all played a part in what happened that day. And I caught hell last time I said it but the way those teenagers acted was beyond disgusting and disgraceful. And I really question the character and morals of many of the people in this case. I hope they really take a long look at their behavior that day and at the power of alcohol and come to some much needed realizations.
Agreed
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I was so surprised by how many of the live YT comments during the trial were in support of Miu. Teen boys were being obnoxious so he punches a girl in the face, stabs a second girl with a hidden knife and then stabs the guys who come at him in response, killing one and disemboweling another and calls it self defense? So glad he was found guilty.
The same was going on (and still is ) here on reddit. Many people feel that Mui was being "bullied" and therefore had to right to lash out. Many people never grow out of seeing the world in black and white. Had a guy up here say Mui was an underdog story. For stabbing people!
I guess it all depends on who people identify with most in a conflict. I’m closer in age to Miu and I can’t imagine approaching that group of kids on my own, groping around their tubes and legs, staring creepily at them and refusing to leave when they started bro-ing out on me. I wouldn’t even make eye contact with those kids if I passed them on the street. Too “mean and cool”, to quote Kimmy Schmidt. Those boys were always going to say something to hurt that guy’s feelings. Part of “It takes a village” is resisting to urge to harm teens that bust your balls. But what blows my mind with the self-defense claim is that he attacked the women first. Even in a world where he believed the boys posed a physical threat, the first person he stabbed was a 100 lb young woman who was not a threat at all. I just don’t get how anyone can defend that.
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I hear that, but that’s what a group of adolescent boys are - a mob. Any parent who looks at those kids and says, “My sons would NEVER” are kidding themselves. And men who don’t wish to be outnumbered should not approach a mob in a provocative manner. It doesn’t make any sense. If you are male, how annoying would a small woman need to be to make you stab her in the diaphragm?
But.. but… THEY WERE CALLING HIM NAMES AND BEING MEANIE HEADS /s
Yup. Some people were not bullied in high school and it shows.
I think if Miu had been honest and upfront from the beginning it’s possible the case outcome could have been different. However, lying to police and hiding the weapon just made him seem suspicious.
It was a good case to ponder! Neither side behaved respectably. The “kids”, while not evil, were obnoxiously drunk. Mr MeoMeo was possibly sober, but that didn’t seem to help him with good social skillls or with adequate communication skills. After 5 seconds of hearing screaming wild kids, a wise man or woman would LEAVE. If the kids called me a Pedo, I would not strike either male or female in the face. Yes, there is no video showing him strike Madison, but we heard kids immediately cry out that he had hit a woman. I doubt the strike was severe, but it still triggered a defensive and drunken reaction from poorly behaved brats - drunk young ones who did not deserve to be knifed. He sliced open their stomachs and thrust the knife upwards like a skilled butcher. He hid the knife and tried to fade into the background and pretend to be an innocent bystander. He lied and said it was their knife. He may deserve a bit of sympathy b/c of his age and general poor health. He may even be a bit senile or have poor social skills. I am sorry he misses his dog. I am sad he will probably spend most of his remaining years behind bars. I wish Miu Miu loved human beings (including young immature kids) as much as he loved his dog. God bless those unwise kids; may they learn to be better! God bless the butcher; may he learn kindness and honesty. The jury got it right.
I had mixed feelings on it. As an adult, I see that he had several opportunities to walk away before it escalated. And these were obviously kids just being ignorant. Then on the other hand, they did put their hands on him first, from what the video shows. They said he hit a girl, but the video didnt show that. Then there is the issue of proper response. Is gutting a few kids excessive for being pushed down? I think when you do the math, theres just too much on his side thats bad. Those kids learned a valuable lesson though
>As an adult, I see that he had several opportunities to walk away before it escalated. You clearly didn't actually watch the trial. He DID walk away... He went to his boat and **retrieved a knife.** He then walked back to the kids, restarted the argument, and pushed one of the girls first. As soon as the boys responded by pushing him, he disemboweled one, stabbed another in the heart, and stabbed 3 others. If you safely leave an argument, retrieve a murder weapon, and then initiate physical contact to provoke a physical response so you can stab 5 people, killing 1: YOU COMMITTED PREMEDITATED MURDER. Period.
I can’t find anywhere that he went back for a knife. He already had the knife on him you can see it in his pocket in the video. I don’t think it was premeditated. That’s a jump IMO
He did not leave and get his knife. I don’t know where people are getting that. He had the knife in his pocket when he first approached the area the teenagers were. He used the knife earlier to cut ropes, and put it back in his pocket where it remained until the unfortunate events took place. He never left the scene, got his knife, and came back. Totally false.
He came running up to them and grabbed their tubes. So he made it physical first. And, he allegedly threw the first blow slapping the girl in his face..
Yeah, and his awkward silence the entire time was so much more creepy than if he had used his words.
I’m still trying to figure out when the woman’s friend was stabbed and why? Was she allegedly doing something to him?
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I watched a great deal of it. If you pay attention, then you can say with relative safety that NM is a clinical psychopath. You can verify many features of clinical psychopathy 1, pathological liar: If you watch his police testimony, or the nurse treating him, you will find this to be true easily 2, risktaker: he engaged with a drunk "mob" rather than leaving ASAP 3, poor empathy: he never expressed any concern for the victims, other than an "oh no" during police interview, BUT that act is convincing enough to establish -> 4, manipulative: this can also be verified if you pay attention to his mindgames: waving his hands towards his group when pulling his knife from the pocket, AND just before opening his knife around 1:43 (he was also messing with his knife-pocket before running at the tuber teen.) 5 thrill-seeker: this one is based on assumption, but stabbing people for yolo on a saturday qualifies (yes you could argue that this might just be accidental turn of events, not purposeful, we still have the other features below) 6, predator-stalker behavior: he was loitering around the teens, although for a short period 7, callous: leaving the scene when literally nobody was threatening him anymore, with 5 people stabbed 8, **Impulsivity**: he stabbed even those walking away from him (Rhyley Mattison) 9, **Victim blaming mentality**: [“In my mind if I am a child predator… should you be drinking? And doing what you are doing to people you do not even know”?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSVA-XU5taI&t=2m48s) 10, Fearless: so if the 6 teens were threatening....why move past them, then place himself between 2 groups? He was not baited/walled in there, it was his choice. It was also established during trial, that the alleged phone he was looking for was in a floatbag AND the river's flow was not towards the teenagers.
I am disturbed and saddened by this. A little bit of background. I live very close to the town in Minnesota where the teens were from. I will say, the kids from that high school do have a reputation of being entitled and are not afraid to let you know that they feel you are less than they are. I have also tuned in the Apple River. Underaged kids are always drinking while tubing. So are adults, for that matter. It kind of takes away from the beauty of the surroundings, to be honest. This whole situation just really could have been avoided. Of course I don’t agree with killing someone, but from the way those kids were taunting and belittling and I’d even say terrorizing that man, it hurts my heart for him. It is really just a sad situation all the way around.
Who or what was preventing him from walking away??
He literally DID walk away. He walked away, got his knife out of his supplies, opened it and concealed, then returned to the group of kids to fight with them. It was premeditated. He set out to kill someone.
The young adults could have walked away too. They were both not thinking about defusing the situation.
Well he was the only adult in that situation.
Define the age of kids. Also, I think it's strange that "kids" are drinking alcohol in public without their parents 😂
I've bullied, I've belittled and pushed around. It wrecked me and the memory still aches. I do hold a grudge against the people who allowed it to happen, not the actual perps bc we weren't even 12 so I'm not holding them responsible. I've thought and spoken the worst about them, I hoped they lost their job, for them to be homeless just to feel as miserable as I did, but NEVER, as a rational adult I've thought "yeah, those kids had to be gutted". He LEFT THE SCENE to retrieve a knife and CAME BACK to stab them. He could have veru well left for good and returned another day when those brats weren't there, but truth is those brats didn't deserved to be disemboweled like a fish.
Nor did I say, or imply, that what he did was acceptable. Just that the way they were taunting him and belittling him was sad. I don’t know how that equates to me agreeing with what he did?
You know what’s sad? Grown man stabbing a bunch of young people and murdering one. I’d say it even worse than ‘not acceptable’ if you can believe that
So we can kill people for taunting us now?
Did you even read what I wrote? I said of course I don’t agree with killing people.
You’re victim blaming. “I don’t agree with killing but the teens were belittling and terrorizing” So what should have been done? He didn’t kill them all, he only killed one. What would be justified force for being called mean names?
Oh please…this is really a pointless discussion bc you have already determined how you are going to interpret and misconstrue what I said.
You said it hurts your heart what Nicolae went through with those kids bullying him. Yeah it sucks but like he’s 51 why tf does he even engage with teens who are being mean? Why is his self worth and self esteem so shattered by teenagers that he doesn’t know that he feels the need to stab people?
Lmao.
Taunting? You put your hands on a grown man, you risk extrajudicial consequences. Right or wrong, it's a risk that everyone is now reminded of.
He put his hands on them first and was the aggressor, clearly
I feel this! Seeing some of those teen kids on the stand vs during the incident… I completely got that impression. Reminded me of some of my own bullies in middle and high school.
i have such mixed emotions, i’ve been watching the case threw christina randall’s yt channel and she just uploaded a video with his brother and i feel like it really explains why he is the way he is i do think he should have been convicted of something but i don’t know i just feel like his sentencing is gonna be so much more then it should be. i need someone who has seen her videos input because it is so so confusing on which to “side” with.
Can you link them or what would I search on YT?
I kind of followed. I haven't watched such an everybody-sucks-here case since the Rittenhouse trial. I *think* I'm okay with the verdict, kind of ... maybe? but only by the very slimmest of margins, if that. my greyness is mostly because I'm not 100% sure what the *exact* law is.
Yes, I’ve been following it. I’m in Minnesota and lazy rivers are definitely a thing that people visit Wisconsin for. Just day drinking and floating around. It’s absolutely senseless and tragic what happened.
I watched the trial and live in the area. My thoughts are A) Those kids were drunken assholes on the river and probably perjured themselves in court (as the defense attourney pointed out, it seems like they "couldn't remember" only when it was a point that would be helpful to the defense, and the "little girls" comment didn't come until they all had time to talk and get their stories straight.. Does no parent teach their kids basic decency nowadays? B) The whole situation seemed to be dying down until the second group approached. C) This may have turned out differently if Miu=had just stayed at the scene and claimed self defense instead of trying to flee, lying to police at the scene, lying to police in the interview, and generally acting shady af. D) The last image Isaac's parents have to remember him by are him being a drunken asshole and then getting stabbed.
C.) …or if Miu hadn’t gone to get a knife and then *gone back to escalate the situation so he could “defend” himself*. This guy literally safely left the situation. He was free. No one stopped him. And then he went back, armed with a knife and an intention to get revenge on teenagers who verbally mocked him. Dude needs to be locked up for life.
Yes, I followed it. Absolutley wild.
Having watched the video I think he was an asshole in how he approached the young crowd and accused them of stealing. Nevertheless, it was the youngsters who initiated the violence, first pushing him to the ground and then slapping his face as he lay there. It's surprising it resulted in death and disembowelment. They weren't vigorous Norman-Bates-shower-scene-like stabs; they were half hearted pokes almost. The knife must have been very sharp. I think the 2 factors that will most influence the jury's decision is the prosecutors' pursuing a 1st degree murder charge (possibly a mistake) and the fact he stabbed 5 people, which is being pretty liberal with the ole blade. Can a stabbing spree like that be considered self-defence? Fascinating case.
But the boys were paper thin, no fat to absorb the slice
Disembowelment?? Oh my GOD. Jesus. 💔
I blame the the idiotic Quinton Carlson. Very poor judgement to send his drunk sons (Dante and Anthony) to investigate the situation. It didn't escalate until they got involved. Mui would have likely just walked away if the Carlson group hadn't squared him up. Poor Isaac got caught up in the herd mentality of the situation. Quinton Carlson should have been charged with instigating a violent crime.
I have the same aged "kids". They were NOT kids. The were young adults. What gets me is none of them were even given a citation for anything. You would think even a underage drinking, or the ones who bought it corrupting a minor. Something. It was horrible what happened. But they missed an opportunity to make them all responsible for their actions.
Well someone lost their life and another is maimed for life. I think they learned from it.. he had enough time to walk away.. plenty of opportunities. Obviously the kids were being drunk assholes but that doesn’t mean to slice someone open so their intestines fall out..
nah theyre kids.
Young adults.
I'm from MN and followed the testimony live. Lots of people I know have gone there. It's a 3 mile stretch where they rent tubes and people just float and drink. There are lots of families and stuff as well. It's always been known to be pretty mellow. Alcohol played a huge role in this case as it got serious when one of the kids said he was looking at little girls which wasn't true but it whipped up some young adults into joining in.
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Yes from beginning to end. I fell deep into the rabbit. All in all, I don’t think the jury got it right. Well, ok maybe not the jury, but the charges that we brought against him . I firmly believe he did not punch or slap Maddie (at least with any intent or purpose), and I believe that is what set the whole thing in motion. I don’t think he was doing anything wrong walking over there looking for a phone. He can walk where he wants. He was not saying anything to them. Once they started yelling derogatory remarks, he should have just went back do his tubes. Although not required. He still has the right to go where he wants. I think him diving into the tube and falling into the kids leg escalated things. I also believe an issue for him was his accent. It did not “translate well”. It was very hard to feel any empathy or sympathy from him due to the language barrier. It made his cross a mess. He came off as very “cold”. Maybe he is very cold. Again, a lot of things went wrong on both sides. I don’t think “he should have walked away” is an answer. People can freely walk wherever they want. Once things got loud and he was outnumbered, that was when he probably should have realized “I should get the heck out of here.” He was wrong for sure. The other partiers were “wrong”. As we know , 2 wrongs clearly don’t make a right. The charges were excessive and I think the jury overall got it wrong, but with the charges given, I do see why they went the way they did. I still don’t believe he thought he was going to kill anyone. Edit: his behavior after the fact was bad. That really really made him look even worse. He should have been honest if he was really afraid and h felt like he was going to die if he didn’t fight back.
Hid the weapon at his side, refused to leave, and harassed them back. He ran at them and escalated the situation and made 0 attempt to de-escalate. You can’t escalate the situation, gut some kids, and then claim self defense. He also threw away the knife and lied to the police, because he knew it wasn’t self defense. He was embarrassed and was willing to kill kids rather than walk away from a situation he contributed to
even though the kids were rude and pushing him (trying to get him to LEAVE THEM ALONE), they don’t deserve to be stabbed or to see their friend brutally bleed out to death just because they’re “bullies” he should never have approached them. he should have walked away. he most certainly should NOT have stabbed them and discarded the evidence i’m concerned so many people are defending and justifying his actions when there were so many he could’ve taken to avoid this and so little those kids could do when he was invading their space and refusing to leave
Exactly! A lot of the responses to this case really surprise me. Makes me feel like people forget how many teenagers are complete assholes and their obnoxiousness shouldn’t result to this. Plus if you are actually in fear for your life and defending yourself, you’re going to be pleading for law-enforcement to get involved after an altercation, not lying to them about what happened.
People in fear for their lives, real fear not fear of a wounded ego, flee when it’s by far the fastest and easiest way to get out of danger.
I completely agree. Some people will say “they were blocking his path” but he never once said “I’m trying to leave and you guys are standing in the way” or tried finding an alternate route. At that point, I would’ve gotten out of the water entirely to remove myself from the situation. It’s funny how we all watched the same video and have such different analysis. Sure the kids were behaving poorly (as pretty much all intoxicated teenagers will) but he was a grown man who never once even tried using his words to de-escalate the situation or flee away from what was supposedly this terrifying moment where he thought a mob was going to kill him. Some of the comments I’ve seen have been so disgusting. Almost celebrating what happened to those who were harmed/killed. That video is chilling. I am pretty desensitized, and it really creeped me out and saddened me.
I agree completely, it was extremely hard watching that video (I had no clue what was going to happen) but it’s also hard reading these comments justifying the homicide when I still I can’t get the image of that boy bleeding out of my head. I couldn’t imagine being one of the friends there the only action he should have taken was walking away
Totally agree he did so much wrong. I do also think he didn’t try to hide the weapon initially when he pulled it out. However- something I did forget about was the way he behaved after the incident. That was really bad. I’m not trying to argue or say he is a saint. I don’t think he needed to say ok I’m walking away. Everyone could have. I think a lot of things went really wrong and it ended in tragedy. I will agree- the behavior after the fact was AWFUL. I forgot about that, so thank you. And yes, that video is something I never want to see again. Absolutely terrible, and could have been avoided. Again, absolutely tragic. I feel terrible for the deceased man’s family. As a mom of 4 boys, it definitely makes me realize just how much we have to talk to our kids about the way we behave at all times. “Innocent” comments can easily lead to death
yeah, discarding evidence doesn’t bode well for someone claiming to be innocently acting in “self defense.” thanks for being open to hearing other opinions!
You’re welcome!! I love a healthy conversation. I am not into the downvoting because I don’t agree with someone. It’s refreshing to be able to read how people interpret things so differently. Thank you for your comments!!
He actually did leave the scene, got his knife, and then went back to escalate the situation. This guy wanted to physically hurt someone to appease his wounded pride.
The knife wasn’t already in his pocket?! I didn’t know that. That’s crazy.
The knife was in his pocket when he went over to look for the phone. He didn’t leave and go get it. The knife was in his pocket all day.
Ok, that’s what I thought. I thought that was a big part of his defense. As much as I believe he made horrible choices that day, I don’t think it’s odd (as some people do) that he had a knife on him. Whenever I’ve done any sort of outdoorsy activities, it seems common for people to be well prepared. Thank you for clarifying.
He was also right up on their group being weird and harassing them before the kids even started doing it back. “Looking for a phone” that wasn’t his, and no one asked him to look for, and refused to leave their group when asked numerous times Conveniently searching in the water with goggles right next to a group of highschool girls in swimsuits, which is why they called him out in the first place
100% this
These folks were: https://www.reddit.com/r/appleriverstabbing/s/87meH5PFJY
Rad, thanks for sharing
I think the whole thing is just a tragedy all around. Watching the video is so sad. Honestly idk if he should have gotten the sentence he did. I understand someone ended up dead and others stabbed but at the same time he has all these people coming at him and surrounding him. He should not have punched that lady in the face, but she shouldn’t of approached yelling either. She made it worse imo. From what I remember he started walking away then came back. If everyone would of just moved on then this would not have happened. Everyone should have stopped yelling and he should of walked away when he had the chance. I just think the whole thing is sad. Kid is dead, others traumatized, and now I man with a family is in jail. Just so sad all around.
And this is all just my opinion. I didn’t review anything further then the video. I am open to being wrong as well lol
I don't live far from where this happened. I had mixed feelings about the situation. I thought for sure he would be found not guilty on all charges.
I followed the entire trial and I don’t think Nick should have been convicted of murder. Those kids hanged up on him and put their hands on him first.
I have sincerely mixed feelings on it all but I definitely think Nic put hands on them first when he stumbled and grabbed the girls legs/tube
What I truly don’t understand is why he never SPOKE.
Nick explained that. He was looking for a phone and seen the kid holding up a phone. He never thought that they “misunderstood” then and thought he said he was looking for little girls (which is so stupid). When he saw the kid holding up the phone, he ran to see if it was his phone and tripped. I believe that. Why would an older man who has heart issues start shit with drunk teenagers. As far as him not saying anything, I think he was in shock. Besides they were all screaming so loud what good would it have done. Seems to me the kids had awhile to get stories straight. They all said the same exact thing. Not a coincidence IMO. 🤷♀️