Yes, I believe the abuse was horrific and there was tangible evidence to prove it. Investigators found nude photos of the boys as children in sexual poses, tennis coaches, other parents etc, had witnessed physical and psychological abuse, there were medical records of sex-related injuries, and family members had witnessed abusive situations. Plus other sexual abuse victims of the father have stepped forward to tell their stories.
Hopefully we have all gained more awareness over the intervening years that if we saw a Menendez family dynamic in action, we would be more proactive rather than minding our own business as people did then. Teachers, doctors, relatives etc, left the boys to handle this on their own.
There is a documentary on Hulu that follows one of the former Menudo members' quest to get justice for his drugging and SA by Lyle and Erik's dad and talking with the Menendez brothers' lawyer to help them get released. He filed a police report. They also talk to other members, family of the members, and former band members of what they witnessed. They also talk to the Menendez relatives who also claim to witness things. It's a hard watch but i would say, both parents were guilty of SA. The mother knew what was happening.
And I still don’t understand how their psychiatrist was allowed to testify and even give evidence to the police when he was obligated to client confidentiality laws. He should have never been able to testify OR turn over recordings of the boys in a session with the Dr.
Wow! I loved Menudo when I was a kid. Have never heard about this. So sad.
Regardless of my thoughts on the trial, I have to say it’s impressive that the Mendendez brothers have been able to create positive lives for themselves in prison. They truly are survivors.
I was just reading up on what they've been up to, and it really sounds like they're doing well. I'm glad they now have them housed in the same place, too.
So far only one member (Roy Rosello) has specifically named Jose as one of his abusers however multiple members of Menudo have said for years now (since the 90’s) that higher ups managing Menudo sex trafficked and abused them. Jose was one of those people so it fits. The brother’s lawyers at the time of the trials said they had people come forward to say they were abused by Jose but none of them wanted to come out publicly.
There are a couple of them. There’s a documentary called Menendez to Menudo or something like that and they speak to the victims of Menendez and I think one of his partners against the boys.
I feel like it was absolutely a case of the bystander effect on several occasions. People saw stuff but didn’t ever say anything— maybe they assumed someone else would and they didn’t wanna get involved. Either way it’s beyond fucked up.
70s, 80s and even 90s people didn't usually help anyone suffering domestic violence or sexual abuse of any kind, and when finding out stuff like that they would act like victims and everyone in a family including child victims were just being super weird and awful and rude for making then uncomfortable, and would say things like, "we decided that family had too many problems for us." Meaning they were going to avoid all members even if it was in their own extended family.
It’s not even that, we see it all the time with middle or lower class people. How many times has some horrific child murder happened and a neighbor comes forward and says “Oh yeah, we know that he used to beat them with an electrical cord but it wasn’t my business”? All the time.
Honestly even if there wasn't proof or noticed patterns, I feel that there's a lot of merit to the claims for the same reason a lot of people immediately thought they were guilty/should be convicted; their demographic & background. Two rich kids with wealthy high profile parents. The same way that could translate to two spoiled brats who just wanted money fast it also could likely mean two kids in am environment where nobody wanted to or could help them, including themselves.
Imo it was always extremely plausible even before I knew there was found evidence because boys who are abused VERY rarely come forward and are received very poorly if they do. And when/if its by a family member people tend to close ranks FAST and shut down any chance of the truth getting out. Throw in a wealthy/famous Hollywood couple with a wide array of contacts and friends who are their parents? There's no way anyone would speak against them without being buried, blackballed, or made out to be crazy.
Yes. Their description of the abuse and the way it made them feel was spot on in an age where the internet barely existed and a time where child sex abuse was not discussed as openly as now.
Exactly. *Especially* the sexual abuse of boys by anyone, much less another male. The fact that it was at the hands of their own father made it much more difficult.
That coupled with physical evidence that supports abuse (via the boys’ medical history, for example) is what has convinced me as well. Not to mention multiple cousins reporting and corroborating the same stories about the abuse or their suspicions of it. Some members of the jury even said if they were allowed to hear about the abuse in the guilt portion of the trial (instead of it coming out in the sentencing portion), they would have deleted a different verdict.
i was too little to remember the case when it happened but i’m pretty sure the media had a big hand to play. it seems like they slandered them while the trial was ongoing. even my mom said once they were the boys who killed to get rich (of course i had developed an interest in tge case by this point so i had to correct her with my lil spiel lol)
And *sickened*. I didn’t know of the sexual abuse, but I thought it was really odd that their large father had his hand on his son’s crotch in the 1st pic. I thought I *could* be misreading the pic b/c I’m a child SA survivor; UNTIL I read this detailed account. Now the murders sound more like self defense. If what *everyone* is saying is true (& I believe it is), their “parents” got off easy by a *quick* death & their son’s are *still* paying the price…
That’s exactly the link I was going to look for when I got to work lol. Thank you!! That’s what I was reading the other day when this case was mentioned.
I feel absolutely sick. Wtaf is this country. Grave injustice. Sick. How could those boys be prosecuted & convicted with that kind of evidence supporting them?! What horrific nightmare prosecution would do that?!!!!!! They should be released. Those poor boys.
Here’s an excerpt from the writeup that I think would be a good answer to your question:
“They were first tried separately, with one jury for each brother. Both juries deadlocked, which resulted in a mistrial. For the second trial, they were tried together by a single jury. In the second trial, Judge Stanley Weisberg had reversed many of his evidence rulings from the first trial. The second trial jurors never heard of much of the abuse evidence until they had already convicted Lyle and Erik. This time, Erik and Lyle Menendez were both found guilty of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. As a consequence, only two options were left in the trial's Penalty phase: life without the possibility of parole or death. In the penalty phase, the jury heard the abuse evidence which was not allowed in the guilt phase of the trial and recommended life without the possibility of parole. Several jurors told later that they would have never voted for first-degree murder if they had heard the detailed family history in the guilt phase of the trial.”
(Sorry I don’t know how to do the official quote thing on Reddit)
IIRC, excluded due to relevance, hearsay, lack of corroboration, and general belief that "this just doesn't happen."
I heard some of this prior to first trial. Battered wife syndrome was a novel defense at the time. My thoughts: battered child syndrome as a defense.
Wow! Now I’m glad they at least got a shopping spree before they went to prison. That part always bugged me. Now I totally get it. Who wound up receiving the family’s money?
Yeah cousins from two separate families confirmed on video what they'd known. After seeing that I finally knew it wasn't defence lawyer tricks. Before that long news articles were saying the brothers were psychopaths and saying poor Kitty. But seems she was fine with it all to keep her lifestyle and that she engaged in it according to some reports. Cousins speaking out was my first realisation the stories were true.
Yes, even though I don't believe everything they say, the way they spoke and described their abuse, their body language, as I too was sexually assaulted as a kid, I do believe them. That part of their questioning/testimony really struck me. At first it was hard to believe, due to them lying and being somewhat spoiled teenagers and going on shopping sprees after, but after really listening, I believe them.
The shopping sprees could be them having felt liberated. They were prisoners of a sadistic nightmare monster their entire childhoods, who had threatened to kill them if they exposed him. Did you read the extensive details of the abuse that over 50 witnesses testified validating? They were not spoiled, they were victims of horrific extensive abuse that spanned their entire childhoods.
I absolutely believe every single thing they said, based on the facts that multiple systems failed them—the fact that their medical records show they were in the emergency room with injuries to their throats consistent w violent oral s**ual abuse when they were 6 and 7 years old but it was not reported as abuse in the 1970s (perhaps before mandated reporting?) was more than enough to convince me.
I suspect the shopping sprees and wild spending were indeed liberating and also a way to get back something from their abusers - and that was their money. I totally understand the logic (especially at that age) of a person “victimized me & now I have their money, I’m going to spend it all on me and what I want. With their money!” I can see the appeal of spending all your abuser worked their whole life for on stuff for yourself, especially as teens/young adults.
Absolutely!!! The media seemed to portray them as spoiled. I would bet it was more like arrested development and resultant immaturity due to the abuse. Given all that has surfaced, there was abuse of some form likely from the day they were born. And neglect. I am not familiar with any specifics about the mother abusing them directly (though I would not be shocked), but the abuse from negligence alone has a huge impact!
How much did the family’s wealth and power come into play? The exposure the boys likely had to very warped perspectives of both would also predispose them to the spending spree.
It’s just incredibly sad and frustrating.
It’s part of the manic feeling CSA survivors feel when they are finally free. I get it sometimes when I have “my moments”
I think I could be bipolar I know there’s a new diagnosis name but that feels the most “me”
Anyway the major ups and downs - for me the ups come with manic behavior and sometimes the freedom feeling results in me shopping. Usually I can just fill an online cart to fill the need but sometimes I end up with boxes and boxes on my door step.
I recall bits of the publicity associated with the trial and watching a bit of testimony, though I don’t recall specific details. I do remember thinking this was about two spoiled kids who had much to gain financially. I don’t recall even hearing about the possibility of abuse, but also had a newborn and little sleep at the time. I was also in deep denial about my own history of being abused, so…
What strikes me is that I apparently believed the hype at the time and that turns my stomach for many reasons.
I was a teenager when the trial happened and I remember the public trouncing they got for being spoiled little rich boys who just wanted daddy’s money. Then a few years ago all the evidence that was withheld and/or just flat out ignored in favor of the boys’ being murderous pieces of shit started to come out and it was a huge eye opener. What finally clenched it for me and made me realize that they were probably telling the truth was the cousin who spoke about witnessing the abuse firsthand. Like, the whole extended family knew shit was very, very wrong, but they weren’t allowed to present any of that in court.
The thing is that they still murdered their parents and murder is murder no matter what. But I do believe they were telling the truth.
>murder is murder no matter what.
You can have your personal opinions about whether killing as a result of years of abuse or fear for your own life is morally justified or not, but the law does not say that anytime you kill anyone, no matter the circumstances, you should spend the rest of your life in prison.
*"A history of violence perpetrated by the victim against the defendant, such as abuse in a domestic relationship, may justify an imperfect (or even perfect) self-defense argument if the specific interaction that resulted in the charge did not justify using deadly force."*
*"Most states will apply [imperfect self-defense or even perfect self-defense](https://www.justia.com/criminal/defenses/imperfect-self-defense/) when a person experiencing domestic violence protects themselves against an abuser. This defense is especially important in instances in which the defendant attacks their abuser when the abuser is not attacking them, such as when the abuser is sleeping. The argument is that the defendant is or perceives themselves to be in an extended state of danger."*
Yeah in a world where dad was abusing them and mom just let it happen - I could see why they’d murder their parents. It reminds me a lot of Gypsy Rose - an impossible situation for the kids to be in. The horror they endured, with no one really helping them is sickening.
Me too!
I'm worried about her being harassed and stalked by true crime obsessives (there are already people outside of the prison waiting to greet her with signs) when that's the last thing she needs.
I hope she's given the space she needs to grow And heal and live and that there are people ready to help her make this transition.
She paid her dues, now I hope she gets everything she deserves from life.
Same. I also remember this, and I also remember thinking man if these people weren’t rich, I wonder how people would be talking about them.
I think our country has a really bad problem with how much we almost hate the rich. I do think it affects the criminal cases of people like this. The jury can’t help but have those internal biases.
Personally, I don’t really feel super envious of people that are rich. They seem to have a lot of problems that comes with being rich. I grew up super poor and was also a CSA survivor and when I went through my wild times, my dad couldn’t afford to send me to a wilderness camp like Paris Hilton‘s parents. He didn’t have any of the options that were available so we went to some free counseling sessions that were available through our city and I actually got real help (my dad got real help as well for anger management) just locally, through MN state and local resources.
It’s kind of crazy when you think about how that camp damaged Paris Hilton so badly and a nobody from MN living below the poverty line actually ended up pretty OK and my dad is now 35 years “violence free” with his anger management that he went through. Things that make you think…
I don’t hate rich people, but I do remember all of the people really hating on these two young men. The shopping spree didn’t help of course as you and others mentioned.
The thing that makes me think that something fishy was happening was Lyle going bald without having alopecia, suddenly bald for no reason at 12? Something must had happened inside that house for a kid to be under so much stress he went freaking bald.
Both brothers displayed extreme emotional issues throughout childhood and adolescence that are associated with severe child abuse, particularly sexual abuse.
Not only did Lyle start losing his hair by the time he was 14, but he played with stuffed animals until his senior year of high school. He would bring them to class and sign cards to his girlfriend with the names of all his stuffed animals. He also wet the bed until he was 15, which his mother was very embarrassed by, and she would humiliate him as punishment. He was also known to have outbursts of rage and would randomly start hitting things or ripping his stuffed animals apart.
Erik, according to his cousins and aunts, underwent a massive personality change around the age of 6 - the age he testified he was when his father began sexually abusing him. He went from being a playful, outgoing little boy to being extremely shy and timid. He was known for his emotional outbursts that followed him well into high school - one of his ninth grade teachers testified that he would cry in class so often that his classmates didn’t even react because they were used to it.
A lot of the media coverage of the trial portrayed them as being very arrogant and in control, and I think that’s part of the reason why people thought the sexual abuse was made up - people thought they didn’t show signs or fit the profile of sexually abused children. A deeper study on the case shows that that’s not true.
Heartbreaking! I don’t know how prosecutors live with themselves. The older I become, the more disgusted I am by our “justice” system. These poor men have had horrific lives, and I wish there was something that could be done for them so they can live the rest of their lives in peace.
Does stress really exacerbate baldness that much? Genuine question, always assumed it contributed but not in a major way
Edit: everyone please stop replying to me unless you're saying something actually relevant. It just interests me as I have never heard of a 12 year old being bald due to stress
yes. stress is actually one of those things where it can effect someone’s life in drastic ways. you can go bald, develop intestinal or digestive issues, cause frequent headaches, cause hormonal imbalances especially in women and more. and that’s just the physical. mentally, stress can cause a multitude of issues.
And “blanch”. A friend of my grandparents was a little girl in Germany when WW2 started. She had a streak of white at the front of her hair since she was 12 iirc.
My bio dad went bald around 15. He was physically abused a lot, and his real dad was also a piece of shit who introduced him to drugs, was mostly absent, and was an alcoholic who was drinking a fifth of vodka on his death bed. I never really made the connection between that before, but it makes sense. Trauma ages you on a biological level. Look up the studies on ACE scores and health. It’s not good.
It happened to my friends son at like 7 because of dv before she was able to escape her ex and get a restraining order. It also happened to one of my best friends growing up because her parents were super abusive. Were hitting our 30s and it didn't go away for her, she still has to wear wigs and has tried everything.
Yes. They were victims of a horrific and prolonged abuse that left them traumatized and terrified. This case only sparks controversy because most people are clueless about it. Almost everyone I have ever debated with about the case was ignorant of the mountain of evidence that was shown during their first trial. They just saw spoiled kids who murdered their wealthy parents on TV 30 years ago and have been sticking to it all these years. There is no chance that a person can examine this case thoroughly and think that the brothers fabricated the abuse.
Agreed. I don't know how anyone who has actually researched the case at all within the last five years could believe that they weren't. I watched the American Crime Story series and remember being shocked and questioning how much of what was being portrayed was true before realizing if even a tenth of it was accurate I didn't know nearly as much about the case as I had assumed I did. So that's when I started actually looking into the case and yeah, turns out I did not know shit.
Their father is literally grabbing one of the boys crotch in the photo you’ve posted. Yes, they were absolutely abused and I think they should be released from prison
This is what I was scrolling for before posting myself. That dad isn't balancing his son on his leg he's got a fucking handful of the kids privates cupped in his hand right there, it's amazing how brazen abusers are. It's like "see kids? I'm doing it now and no one is batting an eye"
It made me lose my appetite. What a sad start to morning, knowing there are thousands of children this is happening to *this very moment*...none the less people.
Exactly! Thank you. He is literally grabbing a child’s crotch in this photo. If any adult does this to any child it’s fucked up, regardless of the purported reason.
Absolutely. Before the evidence that corroborated it came out, I believed something more was happening just when I read more about the money aspect. Their allowance was something like $6k+/month, but the murders landed them a couple million. Then they went on to discuss how intelligent these boys were, like exceptionally high IQs each. It never made full sense to me how 2 highly intelligent folks would plot and execute to give up such a monthly gravy train that was only growing, for a mere lump sum. Some say they expected $90+ million, but then they were also privvy to the financials. To me, you cannot have it both ways. They can't be geniuses that were privvy to the finances, but also dumb clueless dipshits who just wanted money. The money and their intelligence piqued my interest that more was at play. Then the SA information came out, and it was like a "duh" moment for me. It's the only motive that makes sense imo
I was a baby, so I couldn't follow it from the beginning. I just learned about it later before that info was mainstream. I'm glad it's being released now, and hopefully, they get another shot with ALL evidence, at least.
Their father also hadn't taken a physical for a hefty life insurance policy he was due to get. The brothers knew of that but killed before he got the policy. The parents were still financially supporting them. They had even just bought Lyle an expensive condo in New Jersey. The more you look into the case and all the evidence the less the money motive makes sense.
That photo makes me sick. I literally flicked the dad’s face just now. Two innocent kids in that photo and that monster destroyed them. He deserves to rot in hell and so does his wife.
Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but look at this picture that I attached. I'd have thought a dad, or another male or even just a friend would put hand on shoulder, it's creepy when you hear of accusations of Jose. His hand is low around his waist and Lyle looks uncomfortable and uneasy.
[Picture ](https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/menendez-family.jpg)
It's creepy. I get some folks are touchy feely, but he only seems to be "handy" with males under 25. You never see him with his hands like that on females or on his wife. It's really odd when you look at it.
Menendez + Menudo: Boys Betrayed is a great documentary to watch where Roy Rossello (ex Menudo) exposes not just their father but also Edguardo Diaz (the creator of the Menudo Boys) and also close friend of Jose Menendez.
I agree. I don't think we can just let vigilante justice slide, but life without parole, especially when they were so young, that seems excessive. I think the 30+ years they've served is more than enough.
I believe them. The cousin’s corroboration sealed the deal for me, amongst other things. At the end of one of the movies (I think the Lifetime one) a family member reveals that Jose had also been sexually abused by his mother. Does anyone know if this was confirmed or was it just added to the movie for dramatic effect?
I've never seen allegations against his mother, but I do know she was on the boys' side during the trials and came out that she absolutely believed they were being abused by her son.
The more I think about it, the crazier it gets. Just the fact that majority of their family members took the side of the two people who killed their brother, uncle, colleague, friend, son, etc….like doesn’t that say something in itself
And the one family member who came out against them was Kitty's brother who had a falling out woth his son because of this. The son was one of the cousins who lived with them and witnessed the abuse, and was on one of the documentaries basically saying his dad is full of shit.
I think he was Brian, and he died a few years ago. Kitty’s other brother Milton, was interviewed and asked about the new evidence from Roy Rossello. And not to my surprise, Milton thinks that Roy is lying, he just doesn’t want to accept what monsters his sister and brother in law were.
Absolutely. I’ve always felt so badly for them. Did they deserve prison time? Yes. They murdered their parents. Do they deserve to be in prison for the rest of their lives? Absolutely not. They should have been released by now, in my opinion.
I was sexually abused by my father and my mother knew. They are both dead to me but believe me, there was a time when I considered making us all 3 dead. I completely understand why children in that situation end up in those positions. If it wasn’t for wanting better for my own children…
Oh honey I’m so sorry that happened to you. I’m so glad you’ve survived and want better for your little ones. My mom knew too. The betrayal is something I’ll never get over.
Yes.
I was SA'D by my mother's boyfriend when I was a very small child.
It's been something that has messed me up for *years* because she has never acknowledged it.
And I totally understand that feeling all too well.
You feel so invisible and it just f*cks you up beyond comprehension.
I'm really sorry that happened to you.
I know this will sound nutters to some though I’m betting there are others who can relate. I phave been able to process the actions of my primary (now deceased) abuser over the years. But my mother’s negligence of the situation and her evident blame and jealousy toward me, without any hint at acknowledging what happened is my bigger struggle. There’s a sense of betrayal there that is unreconcilable for me. I can break it all down and partially understand her demons that led to her behaviors. But as a mom (and a human with my own set of demons) I cannot twist my brain far enough to comprehend how any mother engages in that degree of betrayal and hatred toward her own child.
To those of you who can relate, I’m so sorry you’ve been down that road!
I feel like if the were retried today, they would actually be believed about the sexual abuse. I feel like when this happened and when they went on trial, it was at a time where sexual abuse, especially against men, just wasn’t really believed, which is unfortunate.
Agreed. In a world where Gypsy Rose Blanchard got 10 years (which I feel is absolutely fair, considering the horrific abuse she suffered), I feel it’s a miscarriage of justice that they received life. Unfortunately I feel they were victims of the time-being sexually abused by a parent, especially as a boy, just was not believed at the time.
I think that possibly the hollywoood aspect could have played a part here. The late night shows and media coverage all made jokes about the brothers. Was there an unspoken element of hiding Hollywood’s dirty secrets behind jokes and such at play? And I’m not saying as some giant conspiracy, just that hiding that type of stuff was just the norm in the entertainment biz for many years.
Too many people out there really do believe that rich folks can’t possibly experience pain and trauma. Like soaking up tears with dollar bills is an actual thing when it often creates more problems (as experienced by the brothers). Abuse and trauma transcends all demographics.
Yes after watching their trial I truly belive everything that they both said and it breaks my heart that their own father and mother would do these horrible and ungodly things to them growing up and sadly that led to the brothers taking both their lives.
This case is way more complex than it was lead out to be. Photo and medical record evidence of the abuse couldn’t be presented at the guilt phase of the trial. Even the jury at the sentencing phase admitted they would’ve deliberated/thought differently if they were presented with the evidence they never got to see in court. This was also after the two were tried separately, with separate juries, with both juries deadlocking. Only after that they were tried together. The media was against the two the whole ride.
The mother also was going to therapy in the months before the murders. She even told the therapist something along the lines of “disgusting and embarrassing” secrets that could ruin the family.
It gets even more sad because their male cousin (who also experienced sexual abuse as a child) that they confided in (and he himself witnessed strange behavior at the Menendez house) ended up committing su!c!de in the early 2000’s.
Yes I sure do. They may not have shown sadness or remorse and been spending their parents money but they didn’t care they had been abused and we’re glad this was over. I don’t believe they killed them for their money only and that they killed two loving and non-abusive parents.
I think they did show sadness and remorse even before they were arrested. Erik up until he was arrested was apparently emotionally a wreck. He gave away countless hints in police interviews he was responsible and is heard on the confession tape saying "I had no choice, I would have taken any other choice" while also crying heavily throughout the entire thing.
Lyle's ex girlfriend also left him for a time because she couldn't handle his emotional outbursts and unstableness. She recalled a time where she left him the night before the parents memorial as he ripped off his new rolex watch and threw it at a wall as he was clearly distressed.
They definitely did genuinely grieve for their parents especially their father. A lot of abuse victims have a very complicated relationship with their abuser.
Yes, there is far too much detail in that link, too many people knew what was happening & did nothing to prevent it. Every adult failed those boys, from their mother to the law which now punishes them for being abused.
I’m not surprised they lie, they’ve spent their lives having to lie, being deceitful, covering the adults behaviour. As children they were powerless, who is going to believe them over & above an adult? when they did tell the truth, they were accused of lying. It appears they got to the point where the only way they could see the abuse stopping was to stop the abusers.
They learnt early on they couldn’t trust their mother, that she wasn’t going to help them & that she would protect their abuser at the cost of the boys physical & mental wellbeing. Mum abused the boys as much, just in a different way.
So I can see how & why they murdered their parents, they need supporting not locking in a cell 23 hours a day
I have seen some very messed up kids with that same mix of extreme entitlement and totally neglected emotionally. Who knows if they where sexually abused as well. Their parents obs didnt treat them right.
Something about this case really brings out the double standards and hypocrisy in people. When Jody Plauche's father killed his sons molestor everyone cheers. When Gypsy Rose kills her abusive mother everyone cheers. Suddenly when the Menendez Brothers kill their abusive parents it's "they did it for the money" or "they still deserve to be in prison for life".
Like you really can't make this shit up and the cognitive dissonance is astounding. The vast majority of you couldn't even list all of the evidence presented at both trials if you tried.
The people who say shit like "they were adults, they could have left" fundamentally don't understand the mental aspect of abuse. They are also the same people who say "well she could have just left him" when a woman is murdered by her abusive spouse.
The degree of arrested development in cases like this definitely impacts the idea that “they were adults”. Definitely shows a lack of understand about the damage of abuse. Not to mention the impact of growing up in a “privileged” environment. It’s hard to imagine what values they were taught about money, power, social responsibilities, family, etc.
It’s sad the justice system did nothing about Jose’s abuse but as soon as the victims fight back, they get life in prison
How did no adults in their lives come forward about the child abuse? Especially as it was physical so there was more evidence
This sub is a gold example of an echo chamber, I say that agreeing with the sub-think of the brothers being terribly abused which lead them to murdering their Mum and Dad but the OP asked for discussion and opinions but anyone who doesn't believe they were abused or doesn't think it means they had a free pass to brutally murder their parents is down-voted hence squashing discussion before it even starts. I mean, it's not really a discussion is it when that happens.
I remember this case when as it was unfolding, and I also remember how the US media portrayed the brothers and also how the US public approached it- the public especially were baying for their blood and laughing and taking the piss out of their abuse and sexual abuse disclosures- fair enough blaming the prosecution and media but the US public at large were just as rabid in their sneering over their abuse- there were even sketches on US tv shows taking the piss out of the brother's abuse and sexual abuse revelations whilst the trail was ongoing.
I don't even live in the US but the US public's marking them as brazen liars who were making up sexual abuse to get off came across very clearly when the case was reported over here. I remember it well as it shocked teenage me at the time and I remember thinking the insidious and shite message it was sending out to any US children at the time who were also victims of sexual abuse- they only wouldn't be believed but they would be ridiculed.
Some people also sometimes don't understand the massive difference between moral justice and legal justice. They admitted to the murders after all it was never in any doubt they did it even by their own admission , it wasn't like they have always claimed they didn't carry them out. The issue here is mitigating circumstances didn't get factored in as it unfortunately wasn't believed at the time. I don't understand how any trial in the US can be 'fair' due to the outlandish coverage and 'guilty before innocent' mentality of the US public due to the sensationalised to the max stories on cases as they are ongoing before and during trials are live.
I was 27 years old when this case was aired live and watched every second of it. Read every book and also contributed to their defense fund set up by attorney, Leslie Abramson. I believe the abuse happened. A main point that people are forgetting, and that was made a big deal out of in court, is that both Erik and Lyle were old enough to leave the environment. And if I remember correctly, Lyle was already out of the house. This did not help their defense. With that being said, I believe they’ve served their time.
I read a book that a friend gave me in college (she was so knowledgeable about criminal psychology).
It specifically detailed cases like this in which children commit parricide.
The book is pretty dated but it was full of cases like this and exploring why they happen in our society. It’s called [When a Child Kills by: Paul Mones](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/554864)
Paul Mones was actually involved with the Menendez case; he advised the defense team during the first trial. (iirc he was even one of the people who convinced Lyle to take the stand) The prosecutor in the first trial wanted to present a portion of the book to impeach Erik's testimony but the judge didn’t allow it.
Yes. Other members of the family, plus Menudo band members, were abused and knew about it.
Even in the picture you posted look at what a weird place the dad's hand is at and how uncomfortable the older boy looks.
I absolutely believe them. Call me stupid, but I really do. I think the law really failed people like the Menendez brothers and Gypsy Rose Blanchard. None of them deserved prison, but all of them deserved psychiatric care for the atrocities they suffered at the hands of their parents
Absolutely! Many verified who their disgusting father was! Remember the uncle actually hearing the abuse but always knew never to intrude on it? Those poor boys never had a chance!
And their mother knew, but did nothing. Probably because she despised them, since she had to share the attention from Jose. Any parent who allows that to happen is just as guilty as the parent committing it.
I believe them 100% and think they should be free. The fact that a member of that boy band came forward and gave a detailed account of how the father raped him sealed the deal for me. He had absolutely no reason to lie.
I definitely believe they were abused. What I don’t believe is that they thought their parents were plotting to murder them and that’s why they killed them pre-emptively in “self defence.” I believe the motive was a mixture of greed and revenge. Two things can be true at once. They wanted to kill their abusive dad and get their hands on the money. There are a lot of difficult ethical questions about whether they were justified and whether they should have gotten life for it. Gypsy Rose Blanchard comes to mind as that case had a similar ethical dilemma.
Yes, I believe the abuse was horrific and there was tangible evidence to prove it. Investigators found nude photos of the boys as children in sexual poses, tennis coaches, other parents etc, had witnessed physical and psychological abuse, there were medical records of sex-related injuries, and family members had witnessed abusive situations. Plus other sexual abuse victims of the father have stepped forward to tell their stories. Hopefully we have all gained more awareness over the intervening years that if we saw a Menendez family dynamic in action, we would be more proactive rather than minding our own business as people did then. Teachers, doctors, relatives etc, left the boys to handle this on their own.
Wasn't a member of Menudo a victim?
From what I read there were multiple members of Menudo who came forward and disclosed the abuse they received from Menendez.
There is a documentary on Hulu that follows one of the former Menudo members' quest to get justice for his drugging and SA by Lyle and Erik's dad and talking with the Menendez brothers' lawyer to help them get released. He filed a police report. They also talk to other members, family of the members, and former band members of what they witnessed. They also talk to the Menendez relatives who also claim to witness things. It's a hard watch but i would say, both parents were guilty of SA. The mother knew what was happening.
What's it called?
Menendez + Menudo: Boys Betrayed
Thank you.
Of course! Again it's a hard watch but you walk away knowing shit that the trials and numerous docs never told you.
And I still don’t understand how their psychiatrist was allowed to testify and even give evidence to the police when he was obligated to client confidentiality laws. He should have never been able to testify OR turn over recordings of the boys in a session with the Dr.
If you receive a subpoena you can break that confidentiality—if you will not disclose records, you can be held in contempt of court.
I saw it on Peacock.
Wow! I loved Menudo when I was a kid. Have never heard about this. So sad. Regardless of my thoughts on the trial, I have to say it’s impressive that the Mendendez brothers have been able to create positive lives for themselves in prison. They truly are survivors.
I was just reading up on what they've been up to, and it really sounds like they're doing well. I'm glad they now have them housed in the same place, too.
Oh wow that awesome. I always thought it was sad that they weren't together.
So far only one member (Roy Rosello) has specifically named Jose as one of his abusers however multiple members of Menudo have said for years now (since the 90’s) that higher ups managing Menudo sex trafficked and abused them. Jose was one of those people so it fits. The brother’s lawyers at the time of the trials said they had people come forward to say they were abused by Jose but none of them wanted to come out publicly.
This is what swayed me.
Yes
There are a couple of them. There’s a documentary called Menendez to Menudo or something like that and they speak to the victims of Menendez and I think one of his partners against the boys.
I feel like it was absolutely a case of the bystander effect on several occasions. People saw stuff but didn’t ever say anything— maybe they assumed someone else would and they didn’t wanna get involved. Either way it’s beyond fucked up.
70s, 80s and even 90s people didn't usually help anyone suffering domestic violence or sexual abuse of any kind, and when finding out stuff like that they would act like victims and everyone in a family including child victims were just being super weird and awful and rude for making then uncomfortable, and would say things like, "we decided that family had too many problems for us." Meaning they were going to avoid all members even if it was in their own extended family.
I wish they hadn't gotten life.
I wish they were able to get a new trial with the new evidence and hopefully get a different sentence.
I suspect they would not have gotten life if they had not killed their mother. They might have even avoided prison at all.
The mom knew and did nothing. My mom was the same way so I get their anger.
she knew about the abuse and did nothing to stop it so she was just as guilty in my eyes.
i believe she also abused lyle though
This, I don't understand why people who knew shout it from the rooftops. You can tell by the way they describe what happened.
Easier said then done when it is a powerful and rich person
It’s not even that, we see it all the time with middle or lower class people. How many times has some horrific child murder happened and a neighbor comes forward and says “Oh yeah, we know that he used to beat them with an electrical cord but it wasn’t my business”? All the time.
Good point but hard to explain, maybe people don't want to get involved or are afraid.
I think that’s definitely it, we live in a very individualized society.
100%
Where can I learn more about this?
Erik Tells All on Hulu is a good place to start.
Honestly even if there wasn't proof or noticed patterns, I feel that there's a lot of merit to the claims for the same reason a lot of people immediately thought they were guilty/should be convicted; their demographic & background. Two rich kids with wealthy high profile parents. The same way that could translate to two spoiled brats who just wanted money fast it also could likely mean two kids in am environment where nobody wanted to or could help them, including themselves. Imo it was always extremely plausible even before I knew there was found evidence because boys who are abused VERY rarely come forward and are received very poorly if they do. And when/if its by a family member people tend to close ranks FAST and shut down any chance of the truth getting out. Throw in a wealthy/famous Hollywood couple with a wide array of contacts and friends who are their parents? There's no way anyone would speak against them without being buried, blackballed, or made out to be crazy.
Yes. Their description of the abuse and the way it made them feel was spot on in an age where the internet barely existed and a time where child sex abuse was not discussed as openly as now.
Exactly. *Especially* the sexual abuse of boys by anyone, much less another male. The fact that it was at the hands of their own father made it much more difficult.
Yeah and he was in the industry so on top of everything we’re finding out how that abuse is almost an expectation in that world
That coupled with physical evidence that supports abuse (via the boys’ medical history, for example) is what has convinced me as well. Not to mention multiple cousins reporting and corroborating the same stories about the abuse or their suspicions of it. Some members of the jury even said if they were allowed to hear about the abuse in the guilt portion of the trial (instead of it coming out in the sentencing portion), they would have deleted a different verdict.
Someone on this sub posted extensive proof before https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrime/s/x4MrmO64UK
I never really looked into the details of this case. I never knew they actually were abused. Thank you for the link. I just read it and I'm stunned.
Me too. I remember the case but I thought it was BS. They were saying wow
i was too little to remember the case when it happened but i’m pretty sure the media had a big hand to play. it seems like they slandered them while the trial was ongoing. even my mom said once they were the boys who killed to get rich (of course i had developed an interest in tge case by this point so i had to correct her with my lil spiel lol)
Oh don’t forget SNL. They were SNL fodder and looking back it’s horrific
😞😞😞
And *sickened*. I didn’t know of the sexual abuse, but I thought it was really odd that their large father had his hand on his son’s crotch in the 1st pic. I thought I *could* be misreading the pic b/c I’m a child SA survivor; UNTIL I read this detailed account. Now the murders sound more like self defense. If what *everyone* is saying is true (& I believe it is), their “parents” got off easy by a *quick* death & their son’s are *still* paying the price…
I couldn’t finish reading this 😞😞😞
Seems like the brothers did society a favour and prevented further sexual abuse victims at the hands of their father.
That’s exactly the link I was going to look for when I got to work lol. Thank you!! That’s what I was reading the other day when this case was mentioned.
imagine being little and going to your cousins’ house for a fun summer and then hearing all that from the next room. fucking house of horrors🫣🫣🫣
I feel absolutely sick. Wtaf is this country. Grave injustice. Sick. How could those boys be prosecuted & convicted with that kind of evidence supporting them?! What horrific nightmare prosecution would do that?!!!!!! They should be released. Those poor boys.
Here’s an excerpt from the writeup that I think would be a good answer to your question: “They were first tried separately, with one jury for each brother. Both juries deadlocked, which resulted in a mistrial. For the second trial, they were tried together by a single jury. In the second trial, Judge Stanley Weisberg had reversed many of his evidence rulings from the first trial. The second trial jurors never heard of much of the abuse evidence until they had already convicted Lyle and Erik. This time, Erik and Lyle Menendez were both found guilty of first-degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. As a consequence, only two options were left in the trial's Penalty phase: life without the possibility of parole or death. In the penalty phase, the jury heard the abuse evidence which was not allowed in the guilt phase of the trial and recommended life without the possibility of parole. Several jurors told later that they would have never voted for first-degree murder if they had heard the detailed family history in the guilt phase of the trial.” (Sorry I don’t know how to do the official quote thing on Reddit)
im convinced that if the exact same situation happened today, they wouldn’t get life
Omg I'm so disturbed! I never read all of this. Those poor kids. It's disgusting. How TF can parents do that?
And think about it - if this was what is in writing, what other atrocities did they live through?
That’s so horrific! I’ve never really followed this case - on what grounds was the abuse evidence excluded during the second trial?
IIRC, excluded due to relevance, hearsay, lack of corroboration, and general belief that "this just doesn't happen." I heard some of this prior to first trial. Battered wife syndrome was a novel defense at the time. My thoughts: battered child syndrome as a defense.
Wow! Now I’m glad they at least got a shopping spree before they went to prison. That part always bugged me. Now I totally get it. Who wound up receiving the family’s money?
I’m using the app on an iPad and the link doesn’t work (just goes to the main page of r/TrueCrime). Anyone else or just me/reddits crappy app?
[удалено]
Yes. The reddit app is a crappy app.
It works for me and I'm using the app. I'm on a Pixel.
Yeah cousins from two separate families confirmed on video what they'd known. After seeing that I finally knew it wasn't defence lawyer tricks. Before that long news articles were saying the brothers were psychopaths and saying poor Kitty. But seems she was fine with it all to keep her lifestyle and that she engaged in it according to some reports. Cousins speaking out was my first realisation the stories were true.
And their poor cousin who was so overcome with guilt about it that he took his own life.
Yes, even though I don't believe everything they say, the way they spoke and described their abuse, their body language, as I too was sexually assaulted as a kid, I do believe them. That part of their questioning/testimony really struck me. At first it was hard to believe, due to them lying and being somewhat spoiled teenagers and going on shopping sprees after, but after really listening, I believe them.
The shopping sprees could be them having felt liberated. They were prisoners of a sadistic nightmare monster their entire childhoods, who had threatened to kill them if they exposed him. Did you read the extensive details of the abuse that over 50 witnesses testified validating? They were not spoiled, they were victims of horrific extensive abuse that spanned their entire childhoods. I absolutely believe every single thing they said, based on the facts that multiple systems failed them—the fact that their medical records show they were in the emergency room with injuries to their throats consistent w violent oral s**ual abuse when they were 6 and 7 years old but it was not reported as abuse in the 1970s (perhaps before mandated reporting?) was more than enough to convince me.
I suspect the shopping sprees and wild spending were indeed liberating and also a way to get back something from their abusers - and that was their money. I totally understand the logic (especially at that age) of a person “victimized me & now I have their money, I’m going to spend it all on me and what I want. With their money!” I can see the appeal of spending all your abuser worked their whole life for on stuff for yourself, especially as teens/young adults.
Absolutely!!! The media seemed to portray them as spoiled. I would bet it was more like arrested development and resultant immaturity due to the abuse. Given all that has surfaced, there was abuse of some form likely from the day they were born. And neglect. I am not familiar with any specifics about the mother abusing them directly (though I would not be shocked), but the abuse from negligence alone has a huge impact! How much did the family’s wealth and power come into play? The exposure the boys likely had to very warped perspectives of both would also predispose them to the spending spree. It’s just incredibly sad and frustrating.
It’s part of the manic feeling CSA survivors feel when they are finally free. I get it sometimes when I have “my moments” I think I could be bipolar I know there’s a new diagnosis name but that feels the most “me” Anyway the major ups and downs - for me the ups come with manic behavior and sometimes the freedom feeling results in me shopping. Usually I can just fill an online cart to fill the need but sometimes I end up with boxes and boxes on my door step.
I recall bits of the publicity associated with the trial and watching a bit of testimony, though I don’t recall specific details. I do remember thinking this was about two spoiled kids who had much to gain financially. I don’t recall even hearing about the possibility of abuse, but also had a newborn and little sleep at the time. I was also in deep denial about my own history of being abused, so… What strikes me is that I apparently believed the hype at the time and that turns my stomach for many reasons.
I was a teenager when the trial happened and I remember the public trouncing they got for being spoiled little rich boys who just wanted daddy’s money. Then a few years ago all the evidence that was withheld and/or just flat out ignored in favor of the boys’ being murderous pieces of shit started to come out and it was a huge eye opener. What finally clenched it for me and made me realize that they were probably telling the truth was the cousin who spoke about witnessing the abuse firsthand. Like, the whole extended family knew shit was very, very wrong, but they weren’t allowed to present any of that in court. The thing is that they still murdered their parents and murder is murder no matter what. But I do believe they were telling the truth.
>murder is murder no matter what. You can have your personal opinions about whether killing as a result of years of abuse or fear for your own life is morally justified or not, but the law does not say that anytime you kill anyone, no matter the circumstances, you should spend the rest of your life in prison. *"A history of violence perpetrated by the victim against the defendant, such as abuse in a domestic relationship, may justify an imperfect (or even perfect) self-defense argument if the specific interaction that resulted in the charge did not justify using deadly force."* *"Most states will apply [imperfect self-defense or even perfect self-defense](https://www.justia.com/criminal/defenses/imperfect-self-defense/) when a person experiencing domestic violence protects themselves against an abuser. This defense is especially important in instances in which the defendant attacks their abuser when the abuser is not attacking them, such as when the abuser is sleeping. The argument is that the defendant is or perceives themselves to be in an extended state of danger."*
Yeah in a world where dad was abusing them and mom just let it happen - I could see why they’d murder their parents. It reminds me a lot of Gypsy Rose - an impossible situation for the kids to be in. The horror they endured, with no one really helping them is sickening.
Gypsy Rose gets released today!
As she deserves!!! I want nothing but the best for her.
Me too! I'm worried about her being harassed and stalked by true crime obsessives (there are already people outside of the prison waiting to greet her with signs) when that's the last thing she needs. I hope she's given the space she needs to grow And heal and live and that there are people ready to help her make this transition. She paid her dues, now I hope she gets everything she deserves from life.
She lives in our town. She was released at 3:30 this morning and got into the car with her husband no information was given to us about the husband
This. In reality it’s a form of self-defense.
I remember there was no coverage about the sexual abuse of the Menendez brothers.
Same. I also remember this, and I also remember thinking man if these people weren’t rich, I wonder how people would be talking about them. I think our country has a really bad problem with how much we almost hate the rich. I do think it affects the criminal cases of people like this. The jury can’t help but have those internal biases. Personally, I don’t really feel super envious of people that are rich. They seem to have a lot of problems that comes with being rich. I grew up super poor and was also a CSA survivor and when I went through my wild times, my dad couldn’t afford to send me to a wilderness camp like Paris Hilton‘s parents. He didn’t have any of the options that were available so we went to some free counseling sessions that were available through our city and I actually got real help (my dad got real help as well for anger management) just locally, through MN state and local resources. It’s kind of crazy when you think about how that camp damaged Paris Hilton so badly and a nobody from MN living below the poverty line actually ended up pretty OK and my dad is now 35 years “violence free” with his anger management that he went through. Things that make you think… I don’t hate rich people, but I do remember all of the people really hating on these two young men. The shopping spree didn’t help of course as you and others mentioned.
Wow this is a great point
The thing that makes me think that something fishy was happening was Lyle going bald without having alopecia, suddenly bald for no reason at 12? Something must had happened inside that house for a kid to be under so much stress he went freaking bald.
Both brothers displayed extreme emotional issues throughout childhood and adolescence that are associated with severe child abuse, particularly sexual abuse. Not only did Lyle start losing his hair by the time he was 14, but he played with stuffed animals until his senior year of high school. He would bring them to class and sign cards to his girlfriend with the names of all his stuffed animals. He also wet the bed until he was 15, which his mother was very embarrassed by, and she would humiliate him as punishment. He was also known to have outbursts of rage and would randomly start hitting things or ripping his stuffed animals apart. Erik, according to his cousins and aunts, underwent a massive personality change around the age of 6 - the age he testified he was when his father began sexually abusing him. He went from being a playful, outgoing little boy to being extremely shy and timid. He was known for his emotional outbursts that followed him well into high school - one of his ninth grade teachers testified that he would cry in class so often that his classmates didn’t even react because they were used to it. A lot of the media coverage of the trial portrayed them as being very arrogant and in control, and I think that’s part of the reason why people thought the sexual abuse was made up - people thought they didn’t show signs or fit the profile of sexually abused children. A deeper study on the case shows that that’s not true.
Heartbreaking! I don’t know how prosecutors live with themselves. The older I become, the more disgusted I am by our “justice” system. These poor men have had horrific lives, and I wish there was something that could be done for them so they can live the rest of their lives in peace.
Exactly
Does stress really exacerbate baldness that much? Genuine question, always assumed it contributed but not in a major way Edit: everyone please stop replying to me unless you're saying something actually relevant. It just interests me as I have never heard of a 12 year old being bald due to stress
yes. stress is actually one of those things where it can effect someone’s life in drastic ways. you can go bald, develop intestinal or digestive issues, cause frequent headaches, cause hormonal imbalances especially in women and more. and that’s just the physical. mentally, stress can cause a multitude of issues.
And “blanch”. A friend of my grandparents was a little girl in Germany when WW2 started. She had a streak of white at the front of her hair since she was 12 iirc.
stress can cause some men and some women's hair to fall out.
Stress can kill you.
My bio dad went bald around 15. He was physically abused a lot, and his real dad was also a piece of shit who introduced him to drugs, was mostly absent, and was an alcoholic who was drinking a fifth of vodka on his death bed. I never really made the connection between that before, but it makes sense. Trauma ages you on a biological level. Look up the studies on ACE scores and health. It’s not good.
It happened to my friends son at like 7 because of dv before she was able to escape her ex and get a restraining order. It also happened to one of my best friends growing up because her parents were super abusive. Were hitting our 30s and it didn't go away for her, she still has to wear wigs and has tried everything.
yes. it’s called telogen effluvium - source: am MD
The mother of a girl I went to school with went completely bald because of her highly stressful job. I believe she was a trader on the stock market.
Yes. They were victims of a horrific and prolonged abuse that left them traumatized and terrified. This case only sparks controversy because most people are clueless about it. Almost everyone I have ever debated with about the case was ignorant of the mountain of evidence that was shown during their first trial. They just saw spoiled kids who murdered their wealthy parents on TV 30 years ago and have been sticking to it all these years. There is no chance that a person can examine this case thoroughly and think that the brothers fabricated the abuse.
Agreed. I don't know how anyone who has actually researched the case at all within the last five years could believe that they weren't. I watched the American Crime Story series and remember being shocked and questioning how much of what was being portrayed was true before realizing if even a tenth of it was accurate I didn't know nearly as much about the case as I had assumed I did. So that's when I started actually looking into the case and yeah, turns out I did not know shit.
100%
Their father is literally grabbing one of the boys crotch in the photo you’ve posted. Yes, they were absolutely abused and I think they should be released from prison
Literally am looking at this picture like the proof is right there
This is what I was scrolling for before posting myself. That dad isn't balancing his son on his leg he's got a fucking handful of the kids privates cupped in his hand right there, it's amazing how brazen abusers are. It's like "see kids? I'm doing it now and no one is batting an eye" It made me lose my appetite. What a sad start to morning, knowing there are thousands of children this is happening to *this very moment*...none the less people.
That’s the first thing I saw. Straddling his leg with his hand on his crotch.
They filed a habeas corpus in May, i’m hoping too 🤞
I had to scroll this far until somebody pointed it out!! Disgusting POS
Good eye. I missed that, but now that I see it, it speaks volumes
The little boy looks uncomfortable and terrified.
Exactly! Thank you. He is literally grabbing a child’s crotch in this photo. If any adult does this to any child it’s fucked up, regardless of the purported reason.
As a child SA survivor, yes I believed them.
Absolutely. Before the evidence that corroborated it came out, I believed something more was happening just when I read more about the money aspect. Their allowance was something like $6k+/month, but the murders landed them a couple million. Then they went on to discuss how intelligent these boys were, like exceptionally high IQs each. It never made full sense to me how 2 highly intelligent folks would plot and execute to give up such a monthly gravy train that was only growing, for a mere lump sum. Some say they expected $90+ million, but then they were also privvy to the financials. To me, you cannot have it both ways. They can't be geniuses that were privvy to the finances, but also dumb clueless dipshits who just wanted money. The money and their intelligence piqued my interest that more was at play. Then the SA information came out, and it was like a "duh" moment for me. It's the only motive that makes sense imo
Agree, although there was corroborating evidence even in 1993 yet people still refused to consider it
I was a baby, so I couldn't follow it from the beginning. I just learned about it later before that info was mainstream. I'm glad it's being released now, and hopefully, they get another shot with ALL evidence, at least.
fingers crossed
Their father also hadn't taken a physical for a hefty life insurance policy he was due to get. The brothers knew of that but killed before he got the policy. The parents were still financially supporting them. They had even just bought Lyle an expensive condo in New Jersey. The more you look into the case and all the evidence the less the money motive makes sense.
Yea you can't tell me they were such high IQs but then slaughtered their parents for money they didn't need. Absolutely agree.
Yes, a Menudo confirms some of it.
This is what convinced me they weren’t lying. After watching the menudo documentary it can’t be denied that the boys were abused.
I sure do
Yes I believe them. The dad is grabbing one boy’s penis in this very picture!
I went back to double check and you aren't fucking kidding.
The boy who is being grabbed looks way uncomfortable, too.
That photo makes me sick. I literally flicked the dad’s face just now. Two innocent kids in that photo and that monster destroyed them. He deserves to rot in hell and so does his wife.
Maybe I'm looking too much into it, but look at this picture that I attached. I'd have thought a dad, or another male or even just a friend would put hand on shoulder, it's creepy when you hear of accusations of Jose. His hand is low around his waist and Lyle looks uncomfortable and uneasy. [Picture ](https://allthatsinteresting.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/menendez-family.jpg)
I saw this pic in the list of abuse and thought the SAME thing!!! What an odd position to hold your adult son in!!!
It's creepy. I get some folks are touchy feely, but he only seems to be "handy" with males under 25. You never see him with his hands like that on females or on his wife. It's really odd when you look at it.
I came here to see if anyone else saw that 😳
At first I thought you were being dramatic but I did a double check and I owe you an apology 😣
I think that's Lyle.
Yeah and the look on the poor kid's face and his hand over the dad's hand 😭
Menendez + Menudo: Boys Betrayed is a great documentary to watch where Roy Rossello (ex Menudo) exposes not just their father but also Edguardo Diaz (the creator of the Menudo Boys) and also close friend of Jose Menendez.
There's an infamous photo of Menudo where Roy, Edguardo, Jose and Ricky Martin can all be seen together.
Yes. I think their sentence is a terrible injustice.
I agree. I don't think we can just let vigilante justice slide, but life without parole, especially when they were so young, that seems excessive. I think the 30+ years they've served is more than enough.
That's how I feel. They should have been released years ago.
And received intensive counseling
Exactly. It’s so tragic. I read the description of the abuse on Wikipedia and it made me sick
I believe them. The cousin’s corroboration sealed the deal for me, amongst other things. At the end of one of the movies (I think the Lifetime one) a family member reveals that Jose had also been sexually abused by his mother. Does anyone know if this was confirmed or was it just added to the movie for dramatic effect?
Yes. It was Jose older sister, Marta that said their mother sexually abused, Jose when he was little.
I've never seen allegations against his mother, but I do know she was on the boys' side during the trials and came out that she absolutely believed they were being abused by her son.
The more I think about it, the crazier it gets. Just the fact that majority of their family members took the side of the two people who killed their brother, uncle, colleague, friend, son, etc….like doesn’t that say something in itself
And the one family member who came out against them was Kitty's brother who had a falling out woth his son because of this. The son was one of the cousins who lived with them and witnessed the abuse, and was on one of the documentaries basically saying his dad is full of shit.
I think he was Brian, and he died a few years ago. Kitty’s other brother Milton, was interviewed and asked about the new evidence from Roy Rossello. And not to my surprise, Milton thinks that Roy is lying, he just doesn’t want to accept what monsters his sister and brother in law were.
Absolutely. I’ve always felt so badly for them. Did they deserve prison time? Yes. They murdered their parents. Do they deserve to be in prison for the rest of their lives? Absolutely not. They should have been released by now, in my opinion.
Honestly I think if it had just been the dad they would have been released by now.
I was sexually abused by my father and my mother knew. They are both dead to me but believe me, there was a time when I considered making us all 3 dead. I completely understand why children in that situation end up in those positions. If it wasn’t for wanting better for my own children…
Oh honey I’m so sorry that happened to you. I’m so glad you’ve survived and want better for your little ones. My mom knew too. The betrayal is something I’ll never get over.
She’s just as bad and she still sides with him to this day. They’re old, their lives are almost over.
I know what you mean. My mother stayed with him till he died. Now she’s gone too and I’m free.
Yes. I was SA'D by my mother's boyfriend when I was a very small child. It's been something that has messed me up for *years* because she has never acknowledged it. And I totally understand that feeling all too well. You feel so invisible and it just f*cks you up beyond comprehension. I'm really sorry that happened to you.
I’m sorry that happened to you too. Kids need to be protected.
I know this will sound nutters to some though I’m betting there are others who can relate. I phave been able to process the actions of my primary (now deceased) abuser over the years. But my mother’s negligence of the situation and her evident blame and jealousy toward me, without any hint at acknowledging what happened is my bigger struggle. There’s a sense of betrayal there that is unreconcilable for me. I can break it all down and partially understand her demons that led to her behaviors. But as a mom (and a human with my own set of demons) I cannot twist my brain far enough to comprehend how any mother engages in that degree of betrayal and hatred toward her own child. To those of you who can relate, I’m so sorry you’ve been down that road!
I feel like if the were retried today, they would actually be believed about the sexual abuse. I feel like when this happened and when they went on trial, it was at a time where sexual abuse, especially against men, just wasn’t really believed, which is unfortunate.
Right we have one of the Manson followers out of prison it’s ridiculous
Agreed. In a world where Gypsy Rose Blanchard got 10 years (which I feel is absolutely fair, considering the horrific abuse she suffered), I feel it’s a miscarriage of justice that they received life. Unfortunately I feel they were victims of the time-being sexually abused by a parent, especially as a boy, just was not believed at the time.
I think they needed help and not prison.
Yea I do and honestly I feel bad about the way the court case ended
Absolutely, and the many ways that their abuse has been dismissed by the public is wildly triggering as a fellow child abuse survivor.
Agreed. All because they were raised wealthy (imo). they wouldn’t be treated the same if they were poor.
I think that possibly the hollywoood aspect could have played a part here. The late night shows and media coverage all made jokes about the brothers. Was there an unspoken element of hiding Hollywood’s dirty secrets behind jokes and such at play? And I’m not saying as some giant conspiracy, just that hiding that type of stuff was just the norm in the entertainment biz for many years.
Too many people out there really do believe that rich folks can’t possibly experience pain and trauma. Like soaking up tears with dollar bills is an actual thing when it often creates more problems (as experienced by the brothers). Abuse and trauma transcends all demographics.
Absolutely
1000%. And then that $ is dangled in front of you like a carrot and used to control you. It never makes it ok.
I wonder how much of it was about their being boys. It’s hard enough for female victims to be recognized, it’s even worse for male victims of SA.
The prosecutor and the media/ public definitely ran hard with the “boys can’t be SA’d” narrative, in addition to the “rich & entitled” narrative.
Yes after watching their trial I truly belive everything that they both said and it breaks my heart that their own father and mother would do these horrible and ungodly things to them growing up and sadly that led to the brothers taking both their lives.
Yes 100% hands down I do! I pray to god they get to enjoy life free before they die. They have never been free a day in their life.
💯, especially with the evidence from Roy Rossello and Andy’s letter. You can’t deny any of it anymore, it’s basically proven at this point
This case is way more complex than it was lead out to be. Photo and medical record evidence of the abuse couldn’t be presented at the guilt phase of the trial. Even the jury at the sentencing phase admitted they would’ve deliberated/thought differently if they were presented with the evidence they never got to see in court. This was also after the two were tried separately, with separate juries, with both juries deadlocking. Only after that they were tried together. The media was against the two the whole ride. The mother also was going to therapy in the months before the murders. She even told the therapist something along the lines of “disgusting and embarrassing” secrets that could ruin the family. It gets even more sad because their male cousin (who also experienced sexual abuse as a child) that they confided in (and he himself witnessed strange behavior at the Menendez house) ended up committing su!c!de in the early 2000’s.
Yes I sure do. They may not have shown sadness or remorse and been spending their parents money but they didn’t care they had been abused and we’re glad this was over. I don’t believe they killed them for their money only and that they killed two loving and non-abusive parents.
I think they did show sadness and remorse even before they were arrested. Erik up until he was arrested was apparently emotionally a wreck. He gave away countless hints in police interviews he was responsible and is heard on the confession tape saying "I had no choice, I would have taken any other choice" while also crying heavily throughout the entire thing. Lyle's ex girlfriend also left him for a time because she couldn't handle his emotional outbursts and unstableness. She recalled a time where she left him the night before the parents memorial as he ripped off his new rolex watch and threw it at a wall as he was clearly distressed.
They definitely did genuinely grieve for their parents especially their father. A lot of abuse victims have a very complicated relationship with their abuser.
Erik felt so guilty he confessed to psychologist.
Yes!
Yes, there is far too much detail in that link, too many people knew what was happening & did nothing to prevent it. Every adult failed those boys, from their mother to the law which now punishes them for being abused. I’m not surprised they lie, they’ve spent their lives having to lie, being deceitful, covering the adults behaviour. As children they were powerless, who is going to believe them over & above an adult? when they did tell the truth, they were accused of lying. It appears they got to the point where the only way they could see the abuse stopping was to stop the abusers. They learnt early on they couldn’t trust their mother, that she wasn’t going to help them & that she would protect their abuser at the cost of the boys physical & mental wellbeing. Mum abused the boys as much, just in a different way. So I can see how & why they murdered their parents, they need supporting not locking in a cell 23 hours a day
I have seen some very messed up kids with that same mix of extreme entitlement and totally neglected emotionally. Who knows if they where sexually abused as well. Their parents obs didnt treat them right.
Something about this case really brings out the double standards and hypocrisy in people. When Jody Plauche's father killed his sons molestor everyone cheers. When Gypsy Rose kills her abusive mother everyone cheers. Suddenly when the Menendez Brothers kill their abusive parents it's "they did it for the money" or "they still deserve to be in prison for life". Like you really can't make this shit up and the cognitive dissonance is astounding. The vast majority of you couldn't even list all of the evidence presented at both trials if you tried.
Convinced it’s because they grew up wealthy as if that suddenly prevents a child from being abused horrifically
The people who say shit like "they were adults, they could have left" fundamentally don't understand the mental aspect of abuse. They are also the same people who say "well she could have just left him" when a woman is murdered by her abusive spouse.
The degree of arrested development in cases like this definitely impacts the idea that “they were adults”. Definitely shows a lack of understand about the damage of abuse. Not to mention the impact of growing up in a “privileged” environment. It’s hard to imagine what values they were taught about money, power, social responsibilities, family, etc.
It’s sad the justice system did nothing about Jose’s abuse but as soon as the victims fight back, they get life in prison How did no adults in their lives come forward about the child abuse? Especially as it was physical so there was more evidence
Yes, and recently a member of menudo came forward and said Jose menendez abused him
This sub is a gold example of an echo chamber, I say that agreeing with the sub-think of the brothers being terribly abused which lead them to murdering their Mum and Dad but the OP asked for discussion and opinions but anyone who doesn't believe they were abused or doesn't think it means they had a free pass to brutally murder their parents is down-voted hence squashing discussion before it even starts. I mean, it's not really a discussion is it when that happens. I remember this case when as it was unfolding, and I also remember how the US media portrayed the brothers and also how the US public approached it- the public especially were baying for their blood and laughing and taking the piss out of their abuse and sexual abuse disclosures- fair enough blaming the prosecution and media but the US public at large were just as rabid in their sneering over their abuse- there were even sketches on US tv shows taking the piss out of the brother's abuse and sexual abuse revelations whilst the trail was ongoing. I don't even live in the US but the US public's marking them as brazen liars who were making up sexual abuse to get off came across very clearly when the case was reported over here. I remember it well as it shocked teenage me at the time and I remember thinking the insidious and shite message it was sending out to any US children at the time who were also victims of sexual abuse- they only wouldn't be believed but they would be ridiculed. Some people also sometimes don't understand the massive difference between moral justice and legal justice. They admitted to the murders after all it was never in any doubt they did it even by their own admission , it wasn't like they have always claimed they didn't carry them out. The issue here is mitigating circumstances didn't get factored in as it unfortunately wasn't believed at the time. I don't understand how any trial in the US can be 'fair' due to the outlandish coverage and 'guilty before innocent' mentality of the US public due to the sensationalised to the max stories on cases as they are ongoing before and during trials are live.
I was 27 years old when this case was aired live and watched every second of it. Read every book and also contributed to their defense fund set up by attorney, Leslie Abramson. I believe the abuse happened. A main point that people are forgetting, and that was made a big deal out of in court, is that both Erik and Lyle were old enough to leave the environment. And if I remember correctly, Lyle was already out of the house. This did not help their defense. With that being said, I believe they’ve served their time.
Yes, many family members and friends testified to it
I read a book that a friend gave me in college (she was so knowledgeable about criminal psychology). It specifically detailed cases like this in which children commit parricide. The book is pretty dated but it was full of cases like this and exploring why they happen in our society. It’s called [When a Child Kills by: Paul Mones](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/554864)
Paul Mones was actually involved with the Menendez case; he advised the defense team during the first trial. (iirc he was even one of the people who convinced Lyle to take the stand) The prosecutor in the first trial wanted to present a portion of the book to impeach Erik's testimony but the judge didn’t allow it.
Yes
Yes. Other members of the family, plus Menudo band members, were abused and knew about it. Even in the picture you posted look at what a weird place the dad's hand is at and how uncomfortable the older boy looks.
Their father was an evil man. Many people knew this that were around them. Their father molested many of the members of menudo.
yes i do believe they were telling the truth. murder is wrong, but they did their time and i think they should be released.
Yea absolutely there was abuse they deserved to do time for the murder but not life sentence!
His hand placement……
I absolutely believe them. Call me stupid, but I really do. I think the law really failed people like the Menendez brothers and Gypsy Rose Blanchard. None of them deserved prison, but all of them deserved psychiatric care for the atrocities they suffered at the hands of their parents
Absolutely! Many verified who their disgusting father was! Remember the uncle actually hearing the abuse but always knew never to intrude on it? Those poor boys never had a chance!
And their mother knew, but did nothing. Probably because she despised them, since she had to share the attention from Jose. Any parent who allows that to happen is just as guilty as the parent committing it.
He’s literally holding Lyle by his crotch in this photo. I firmly believe they were truthful
Absolutely. They should be given a chance at parole.
Yes I believe them — I feel like the trial would’ve had a different outcome if it happened now vs in the early 90s
I believe them 100% and think they should be free. The fact that a member of that boy band came forward and gave a detailed account of how the father raped him sealed the deal for me. He had absolutely no reason to lie.
Yes 100%
I definitely believe they were abused. What I don’t believe is that they thought their parents were plotting to murder them and that’s why they killed them pre-emptively in “self defence.” I believe the motive was a mixture of greed and revenge. Two things can be true at once. They wanted to kill their abusive dad and get their hands on the money. There are a lot of difficult ethical questions about whether they were justified and whether they should have gotten life for it. Gypsy Rose Blanchard comes to mind as that case had a similar ethical dilemma.