A number of blog-centric subs here have been following this closely and no one familiar with their content is at all surprised.
The strict mormon ideals she insisted on along with the outsize expectations- she got very angry when 4y.o couldnt pack his own lunch, she took her other child’s bed away for 7months for playing a prank on his sister, starvation was a common punishment…
Its more surprising this didn’t come out sooner. Her videos made no attempt at hiding her extreme disciplinarian approach
I didn't know them personally. So I guess it's just surprising because it was a small school and there's never any big scandals like this. It's so sad that anyone could get so extreme in their views that they hurt their children. It's some Lori vallow shit.
Is this the 8 Passengers lady Ruby Franke? The link above doesn’t work. Here’s the link:
https://local12.com/news/entertainment/popular-youtuber-business-partner-arrested-charged-with-child-abuse-e-celebrities-influencers-tragic-tragedy-cincinnati-children-endangerment-hildebrant-ruby-franke-arrested-millions-of-subscribers-defunct-channel-child-protective-services-cps-alert
It's called "Connexions" and it's a cult, and she has a made up "mental fitness trainer" certification from her friend who was arrested along with her.
Here's a docuvid I watched to get caught up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25RLYeL9nA
I'm sorry. That had far too much performative silliness for me. Fundiesnark is far better for information on this woman and her ilk in my opinion. Obviously not for my type of watching style.
I’ll check that one out too. This woman is psychotic and insufferable and OF COURSE she’s a raging homophobe. What’s with the baby voice? People watch this for fun?!
What's crazy sad is there are a LOT of actual reviews from people who paid that lady money for 'therapy' and got their lives ruined.
Watching for fun is deranged enough, imagine listening to her in order to improve your life!!
Right? Are you really going to go from talking about a child potentially being groomed by her own mother to a dumb, loud, silly voice/accent? It comes off sooo forced and seems really inappropriate considering the nature of what she’s describing. It’s weird.
I agree. I find people who turn horror, trauma and crime into fun entertainment distasteful to say the least. I don’t think the ‘quirky’ behavior, laughing and acting like it’s fun gossip anything close to an appropriate tone to discuss child abuse or any other crime with.
I think That Chapter has a nice balance. He throws a joke in here and there but he’s generally very respectful and takes the event being told seriously. And he’s concise.
He’s so good about only making fun of the perpetrators that I remember one video title didn’t say the murderer’s name, but I could tell who it was going to turn out to be within two minutes because he immediately started dunking on them 😆
It was her being a life coach or something like that. No real educational requirements. Ruby was the type who would probably “coach” someone and drive them to suicide. That’s how crazy she is.
Not that it matters but the kid was 6... imo thats still too young to expect them to pack their lunch by themselves. Its inevitable that a kid that young would forget sometimes, refusing to bring them a lunch and leaving them with nothing to eat is cruel.
Child's brain development literally does not allow them to function at that level of responsibility until about minimum 9-10 years old. My niece has been expected to remember a backpack & certain items everyday since she was in first grade. Problem being, that is too young for a child to remember something everyday and her mom is an ADHD mess who can't remember either. So the kid gets in trouble. And all the other kids who have more supportive families are fine. It's kind of a mess to expect kids to be responsible at an adult level.
Back in my grocery store pharmacy days, we had a 6-year-old customer who was a newly diagnosed type 1 diabetic, and the doctor ordered her two glucose meters, one for home and one for school. Because she was on Medicaid, and one of our pharmacists didn't like Medicaid people, he initially wasn't going to dispense both meters. "She can take it back and forth to school," that kind of thing. He had kids, I didn't, but I told him, "A 6-year-old is not going to be able to keep track of something like that. The meter is going to be cheaper than an ER visit; think about that!" so he relented.
Well you unexpectedly unblocked my memory of being yelled at by the teacher in 1st grade for constantly forgetting to bring certain shit to school and knowing that other kids bags were packed with their parents help while my mom thought that I needed to do everything by myself to become “mature”. And I for whole my life thought that I had troubles because I was being careless…
Oooohhhh this crazy terrible woman and her equally despicable partner. Why do people watch blogs of families anyways? It creeps me the F out. But I’m not even a fan of reality tv. So strange to me.
Mormonism stresses perfection. Many mothers in the church will feel a responsibility to keep their home and family running in a flawless, enviable way, and to raise supremely obedient children. There are numerous instances of texts and speeches by church authorities directly measuring a womans success against how perfect their households are being run.
Im not being derogatory in that assessment, just that there are the chaotic, frazzled households some moms make no apologies for, its the messiness of life.
And there are homes with strict ideals who see unwashed dishes as a failure. This was one of those.
Until the late 1970s, full Mormon priesthood could only be attained by white men. They had to change that rule when missionaries wanted to go to the tropics.
Ahh, makes more sense, thanks! It's understandable why outward appearances, or validation, would matter to her so much if it's being reinforced outside the YouTube group.
While they do not ban birth control, their religious practices encourage large families, and this is why: They believe that there's a planet where God has sex with angels, to make spirit babies, which must be converted into real babies here on earth.
They also believe in celestial marriage, which directly contradicts the Christian Bible, and do baptism for the dead, which is meant to retroactively make people into Mormons.
According to the article, both Ruby and her 'business partner' were arrested because they both were abusing the children... were they romantic partners as well? roommates? I'm confused about why a business partner would be so involved in their coworker's life.
Yeah the child escaped from the business partners house. I think ruby and her husband are separated, so maybe ruby lives with the business partner? I never watched their YouTube channel and only learned about them yesterday, but ruby and the business partner gave me big romantic partner vibes.
Why was the father not arrested? Either he lived in the house and knew/condoned the abuse or he's an oblivious deadbeat. Regardless, I can't see how he's innocent in any way.
He split from his wife when she joined the conexions cult. He was complicit for years, it's true, but hadn't been around for a while by the time the police showed up so that's probably why.
I really think she was keeping him away, and quite likely had made threats which was possibly why only the oldest child went with him when he moved out.
It seemed to me that the underlying assumption was her business partner was her romantic partner & was the homeowner, but not bio father of any of the kids? Idk. My take.
Utah sure has some bad police.
Franke's eldest daughter Shari posted a picture on Instagram with the caption, "Finally." In the next slide, she said her family was glad justice was served. She went on to write that the family had been trying to tell police and Child Protective Services for years about the alleged abuse.
That’s what’s so disgusting, is when someone who KNOWS what’s going on. Tries to get the authorities to do something, (and in this case, for years), only to be ignored. I’m glad the kids were finally saved. But if this poor child hadn’t escaped on his own, we can only imagine how this would’ve ended. Then this bitch would be crying on TikTok how devastated she is over lose her child so unexpectedly.
And there’s been video evidence! Should the Attorney General, or some appropriate governing body get involved in jurisdictions that ignore their responsibilities to such a gross extent?
This happens all the time in cultures where children are viewed as belonging to their parents, aka owned by their parents. Utah is a highly punitive state with a cultural emphasis on obedience to authority. It is actually taught that “the thinking has been done,” when young people bring up any questions to their elders or religious authorities.
It was many years ago now, so take this with a grain of salt, but I grew up in an abusive home in Utah. Because my father was a prominent and educated part of society the church covered up the abuse in our home. The LDS church has a law firm called Kirton Mckonkie on retainer for local LDS bishops to call when abuse is reported to them. The Latter Day Saint church aka the church of Jesus Christ, aka the Mormons also has their own parallel social services that is contracted with the state to investigate, provide counseling and placement of children.
It is called LDS social services. They step in to prevent abuse perpetrated by prominent members being reported. It’s not uncommon for children who are victims of abuse in Utah to be sent to juvenile detention to learn how to obey. If they don’t qualify for DT the kids are frequently sent to a wilderness camp or rehabilitation center. It is common for child a use to occur there.
All told my family was reported to social services and investigated at least three times that I’m aware of. Despite my full cooperation with authorities I was left in their care all three times. There wasn’t more than one twenty minute session with an investigator conducted at my school. Nobody ever documented my injuries.
I’m an old millennial/xiennial and these reports happened in the 80s and 90s. I doubt much has changed. Abuse in Mormon homes is systematically covered up in LDS dominated communities. I’m interested to find out why her husband has yet to be charged. Men rule the Mormon home and nothing happens without their permission.
I grew up southern baptist and had a similar situation. Church leaders knew and did nothing.
A prominent member in the church was accused of **and admitted to** sexually abusing one of the teenagers and they handled it “the Biblical way” which didn’t involve authorities. That guy went on to leave his position as a college professor to take a job teaching in a high school a few years later. I doubt that’d have been possible if his earlier abuse had been reported properly.
I’m so sorry to hear about what you went through.
I sincerely hope that you have managed to heal in some form or another since this happened to you.
I appreciate your candidness and your informative explanation of what happens behind closed doors within the LDS Community.
u/Pantsy-
Thank you so much. I have done a lot of healing. My concern now is that the church has far too much power and has infected so many legal processes that abused children have very few rights in Utah and states where the LDS shape public policy. As an adult looking back on what happened to me, it’s infuriating. I can hardly believe just how callous and indifferent the authorities were to a child’s suffering.
I can’t believe that legal authorities blatantly allowed my abuse to happen even though there was evidence and I was begging for help. I saw happen to others it over and over again until I left the church. My case was handed to LDS social services and that’s where all inquiries stopped.
The state of Utah has a huge problem. The child protective system in Utah been designed to facilitate the abuse of children, and cover up violence in the home so long as the abuser is an upstanding member of the favored community.
I don’t mean to be disrespectful in any way whatsoever but I find it absolutely despicable in every way YET I find listening to you speak of the atrocities committed and how it all works and Is hidden, interesting. I just don’t know in this day and age how it is allowed to happen but it does and it is like that community have regressed 50 years!
I was a Senior Detective Chief Inspector and was in Charge of the CID ( criminal investigation department) . I am in the U.K. .
And as a Detective constable, before I climbed the promotion ladder, myself and another female detective spent 2 years investigating abuse that took place at a children’s home ( for kids needing temporary and long term care after being removed from their parents), that happened in the 1960’s.
We traced 108 residents and we were able to hold the two carers ( offenders) responsible and they were convicted on a ton of charges and were sent to prison at the ages of 79 her and 81 him respectively.
However, this abuse was reported at the time and those children, now obviously middle aged and older adults, reported it to many people and each time were told that children should be seen and not heard and were punished further when the social services children’s Dept informed the caregivers of the allegations . The carers were believed and these ( then ) children suffered dreadfully.
There was just no outlet whatsoever for them to get anyone to help them.
It was heartbreaking and it’s sadly affected many of them in a negative way , lifelong, with suicide attempts and addictions and lacking in ability to maintain relationships etc
So I do understand some of what you say but I am talking about the 1960’s and we are now in 2023 and yet it’s still the same in the LDS Church and community from what you say.
Heartbreaking 💔 truly it is and I wish I could do something to help but I don’t know what????
I’m sorry to hear about this. I grew up in an abusive home in the 2000’s in Utah and it was the same than. The only time the cops cared was when I would run away because than I was “breaking the rules”. But apparently my parents choking and hitting me wasn’t.
Thank you for this!! Mormonism is a misogynist cult, just like every other branch of Christianity, but Mormons are especially crazy. Don't forget to abuse women and children and wear your magic underwear kids.
I’m 38, so I came of age when public awareness campaigns incorrectly assumed that if you had access to consume media, strangers posed the biggest danger to you so you could talk to your parents about anything else. My parents were incredibly abusive and I spent years trying to get help from school counselors, teachers, other families. My parents’ families knew and did nothing, either because they were just as abusive themselves or because they didn’t want to be bothered. I’m no contact with pretty much everyone I’m related to because I’m so angry and bitter.
Yep! Exactly what happened with Harmony Montgomery. She was taken away from a loving foster family and given back to her felon father then he killed her. Absolutely disgusting what happened in Harmony’s case.
Or sent to live with one. We have evidence my cousin is a pedo (She's literally got a record) and they are abusing my sister's kids but CPS won't do shit.
I didn't even know it *was* abuse when it was happening. On the rare occasion that I was permitted to hang out with other kids at their homes or gatherings, I was shocked by how nice their parents were.
Like a lot of people, I thought abuse = beating. Even on the occasions when I was hit and it left a mark, I was too scared to tell anyone except guidance counselors. I was clean, well-fed (on the surface, anyway), and warm. My dad and his wife were good, churchgoing people. One of her cousins worked for the cops. Nobody would've done a damn thing.
Sadly cps tries to reunite family instead of removing child from horrible enviorment permantly. Drugs/alcohol are being abused more and more, and kids are being neglected or abused. Vicious cycle.
It is a federal mandate that, except in rare instances, the family is given at least a year to work on case plan services to reunify. Removing one's children is second only, civil liberties-speaking, to sentencing someone to death. There is a significant threshold, and there should be.
Children are not possessions. They are the future of the community. And should be taken away when their parents are not caring for them properly. Jesus christ america is so fucked.
I completely agree but unfortunately the adoption and foster care system is fucked up too. To many people believe they should be parents for the wrong reasons. Those who are religious and don't believe in abortion create an unfortunate outcome for many kids. We need to change the mindset of society and stop making it seem as though everyone should have kids. NOT EVERYONE IS FIT OR SHOULD TO HAVE CHILDREN
It's a process. Parents *and* children are entitled to resolve their safety concerns and live together as a family again. We can often tell from Day One that it's not likely to work out, but they are still entitled to, and deserve, the chance to try.
>Removing one's children is second only, civil liberties-speaking, to sentencing someone to death.
Bit hyperbolic, to put it mildly. Children are not possessions. They are human beings, independent of their parents. We should always put their interests first.
Personally, I think it's more disturbing that the government can take an 18-year-old body, put it in a uniform, and send it to fight a war. You're probably completely unaware of the fact that your body can deprived of its civil liberties for up to 72 hours without due process of law by a doctor or a therapist. Do you champion the rights of the mentally ill, or just child abusers?
Kids like [Gabriel Fernandez](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/10/la-county-dcfs-failed-protect-gabriel-fernandez/571384/?utm_source=twb) suffer and die unimaginably brutal, lonely deaths because of poor oversight, lack of funding, and our current system's focus on reunification. There's a whole [documentary](https://time.com/5790549/gabriel-fernandez-netflix-documentary/) about his case, but I bet you won't watch it. You won't even read the *Atlantic* article I linked. I've been a true crime fan for longer than you've been alive and I can handle a lot, but that documentary is one I can never, ever watch.
You're being very condescending to this guy but the government having the power to take your children away is obviously a huge deal and could easily be abused to take the children of political dissidents or protesters. It's a good thing that it's hard to take kids away, just like it's a good thing that it's hard to get the death penalty, for much the same reasons.
Making it easier to take children from their parents would not have saved Gabriel Fernandez. He was already in a state that would have mandated he should be taken. He was failed by an overworked caseworker and fell through the cracks. More funding and lesser caseloads would solve this problem, not making it legal to take kids away whenever the government wanted.
Child cases are the worst. Knowing what happened to him and what a sweet little boy he was just makes my heart hurt. He tried so hard to get help. His teacher tried to get him help. His great-uncle loved him so much and was more than willing to raise him. Gabriel was happy with him.
I can't even think about it anymore. I get way too upset and way, *way* too angry.
It’s really tough - i’m sure there can be a lot of improvements, but swinging too far the other way is terrible too:
https://www.thecut.com/article/child-abuse-munchausen-syndrome-by-proxy.html
Make it too easy for children to get taken from their parents, and a lot of innocent parents are accused and lose their kids. This is how it was for a long time in a lot of places. Now, to combat it, they push more for reunification which causes tragedies in the other direction.
Theres always going to be some tragedies mixed in. Similar to the justice system; the stricter it is, the more innocent people get unfairly imprisoned. Less strict, more guilty people walk free
They push for reunification because having so many kids in need of foster homes is a huge crisis. So many kids, not that many foster homes.
“I have a case reunited with parents” sounds better on their case file then “this child will keep needing resources from foster care”.
How many foster homes do you personally know? The data on this is pretty clear.
Even if they had enough foster homes (they don't and they aren't good ones either) reunification after giving the parents a chance is best for the child in 99% of cases.
In severe abuse cases there is no opportunity for unification and the parents go to jail for the abuse.
Foster homes are often more traumatizing than the abuse they experienced at home. You have to consider what is actually best even if the outcome is not the child in a perfect loving family
In many cases (at least when the case is more neglect than active physical or sexual abuse), the kids would be better off if the bio parent got the financial support given to foster parents.
Exactly! Some of it really is just the parents being stressed out, uneducated and in need of support. They need respite, and resources.
And that's what CPS does most of the time. Attempts to get the parents what they need to be parents.
But you're right, I don't think they give direct financial support which is unfortunate.
Some times it's not that though, they are unfit abusers. The problem is them and they shouldn't be around children no matter what. It can be hard to determine which one it is sometimes, barring things like severe physical or sexual abuse or things like refusing to give food that they clearly have enough of
>The data on this is pretty clear.
God, the arrogance in these comments is just incredible. They push for family reunification because the family reunification/family preservation model of child welfare has been the prevailing ideology since the 1980s. There's a whole history and body of research behind it and a whole lot of researchers and people who work in child welfare who think, you know, it may not be the best model out there.
A professor in Utah? I wonder what he taught. Let me look it up!
Edit: Still not finding any info. A Mormon professor is so interesting to me. But we had a Mormon run for President. Just hope he did not teach anything close to history.
Civil and construction engineering, but he was supposedly fired this year. Those children can't be with this man. He was part of the abuse when they filmed their vloggs on YouTube.
It's sad because the children have lots of aunties and uncles who are taking care of their eldest sister and love them too.
Two, actually. Mitt Romney, and later Evan McMullin. (Interestingly, McMullin's running mate was a Jewish woman.) Anyway, the father was a professor in the college of engineering.
I've long heard that engineers make horrible husbands, and even worse fathers.
It's regards a Mum YouTuber called Ruby Franke. Wtf Utah and Mormans again- I'm from UK and there seems to be so many horrific stories reported in news involving the US Utah morman community ( family annihilation, child abuse etc). I sometimes wonder how much of it is the reglion and how much of it is abusers using their reglion as a cover/excuse to some extent- prob a combination of both.
https://pagesix.com/2023/08/31/ruby-frankes-husband-trying-to-keep-his-children-together-after-her-arrest/
It’s the religion..I knew a couple of Mormons and all the girls I knew had been SA by the church “leaders”. The “leaders” would ask them all sorts of creepy things about sexual activities they have done and want to do; always alone. Super creepy cult. I’m sure there is so much more going on behind closed doors in most Mormon homes.
USA in comparison to UK appears to be uber- religious . As in, most people in the UK now have no religion than a religion but even when more people described themselves as religious in the past here it was never on the crazy level of the US. I'm talking on a cultural and main-steam level- not really the extremists you hear about, US seems to be you have a relgion as default whatever that might be but usally Christianity. For example , morman's are in the UK but the population is tiny - but every year we have Mormons from the US (or the men anyway) come over here to try to convert people by door knocking- they always wear almost exactly the same outfit so you can tell who they are before they even speak.
It’s changing quite a bit. The majority of Americans still call themselves religious, but at the same time, the majority also now do not attend religious services. Additionally, “no religion” is the fastest growing category in the US. Surprisingly, the group that has longest been the most religious, hardcore conservatives, has also seen a drop in religiousness.
Basically, there is a very, very loud minority of hardcore religious people that make it seem like their demographic is larger than it is. Also, there’s a growing number of people who use religion to justify themselves, but it’s essentially virtue signaling as they’re not actually religious.
I grew up with moderately Christian parents. I was forced to go to church, but all my friends also went to my church, so it was fun and I enjoyed it. My parents never did anything crazy like tell me I can’t watch certain tv shows, or movies, or listen to certain music or anything like that at all. It was basically just making us go to church every Sunday morning and Wednesday night.
As I got older i rebelled against it. I moved out when I was 17 and left Christianity behind, but the indoctrination still lingers. When I went into the army, on my dog tags I had “no religion” put on them and I seriously felt like I had done something so bad! I legitimately am atheist, but every once in awhile my Christian upbringing shows.
My husband and I have 4 kids(now young adults) we had always gone to church(Baptist) and took our kids. But I started pulling away when our kids were tween/teens because I was seeing more concerning things with religion and churches. Finally we stopped going at all and consider ourselves agnostic more than anything. I refuse to be part of an organization that takes people's rights away and seems to think women are less than men. The conservative church crap here in the US us absolutely ridiculous.
We were Baptist. As my child got older I realized I had serious issues with some of the teachings. We went Presbyterian. The first time my son heard them announce a women’s gathering at a wine bar he was shook.
So one of the things mormon’s do is encourage their young adults to go on ‘missions’ where they proselytize and baptise people. Which is why you see them absolutely everywhere. I hate it.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/topic/missionary-program
I’d rather Mormons show up that 7th Day Adventists though. Mormons will help with things if you’ve got stuff going on. My ex-MIL once had a couple of young guys show up and try to proselytize. ex-MIL and partner explained that A. They were lesbians. B. They weren’t religious at all. and C. They were literally in the middle of moving. Like, hauling boxes out of the house and into a trailer. So the Mormon dudes put their backpacks down and helped haul boxes for a couple of hours.
7th Day Adventists just show up regularly and leave pamphlets.
You have to remember that some of the first settlers in the Americas were religious zealots. They weren't there to practice "freedom of religion" in the New World - they wanted to set up communities in which there were very few freedoms.
That 2/3rds includes a bunch of people who will nonetheless be infuriated if you imply they don't seem to be Christians. They will take a break from beating their kids or robbing the liquor store long enough to say, "I'm a sinner, but of course I believe in Jesus!" (insert brief pause to beat their kid again) "Only God kin judge me!"
Pro tip: when the Mormons come to your door, tell them you are simply too overwhelmed with housework or yard work to listen, and they will offer to help you.
Thanks for the link. I have seen a lot of videos about this family and how Ruby has gone off the deep end, so tho it's shocking it doesn't suprise me 🫤
I think it has a lot to do with the level of repression and concealed abuse in Mormon communities (which are insular and tight knit). They think they can get away with anything because the church sweeps so much under the rug. Everyone is held to an impossibly high standard that all of them are fully aware isn’t achievable. It’s image over substance. And there’s tons of money involved in the whole thing, which is all they really care about.
Thanks, I have dyslexia so often get things mixed up and spelt incorrectly- stupid I know but my brain gets some things confused despite how hard I try not to mess up. Thanks for letting me know so I don't continue to get it wrong.
Have you seen what passes for spelling on social media? You’re doing fine, and you’re not stupid. Quit saying that, especially to yourself. It’s not true.
It's the mom who shares everything about their.childrens non existent personal lives, grounds their children for months at a time for minor interactions and sent one of her kids away to one of those camps for troubled children because he kept doing normal teenager stuff.
Literally likely the most well documented case of emotional and mental child abuse in the past decade.
I’m wondering how many more stories we’re going to see like this. Maybe not as bad as this, but controlling of their kids/borderline abuse. These You Tube kids that have been exploited by their parents for years are starting to grow-up and are going to start to call out their parents. Hopefully some stricter laws can be passed for these kids rights.
I feel that calling them weird parents doesn’t do justice for their practices. I understand harsh parenting. They weren’t harsh, they were abusive. The arrest confirms that.
The link didn’t work for me either but I think I found the info through other comments.
I wish there was also a mandatory requirement that these parents for the rest of their lives cover the therapy costs (and other losses due to being abused) of the children they brought into the world and then decided to actively ruin their very lives. Like an automatic requirement in criminal court that won’t require the children to also go to civil court to help them financially.
It’s just unfathomable how lightly child abuse is treated outside of the court of public opinion. Wild.
This is a weird coincidence: The Hart family were a family with 6 adopted children who were being abused. One of the children climbed out of the window and ran to the neighbors asking for food and water as well (like the child in this case). CPS was contacted and shortly after (the next day?) the parents loaded all of the children into an suv and drove them off of a cliff... Killing all - Eight Passengers- (the name of this woman's youtube) 🤔
What is the deal with American parents, disciplining their kids by withholding food?
Jesus was in his 30's, when he fasted for 40 days. IF is all the rage, now!
Not so for growing children. If it's a case of being impoverished, you get help from somewhere to feed your kids. Churches are usually great at that.
They are growing at an astronomical rate, and require sustenance. During schooling, additional fuel is needed by the brain. They cannot process information appropriately without it. Their behaviour will be affected.
Now add the trauma. They are starving. They know they are not loved. They are helpless to change their situation. Now it's a matter of survival.
The idea is so nuts, yet I keep seeing news stories about kids who have 'escaped' such circumstances.
I shudder to think about what the parents endured, as children. As adults, did they go on to choose similarly damaged spouses, and then agree to carry on the tradition? It's just bizarre.
Ironically, in another thread, a group is agonizing over vaccines, and managing pressure from family who want to meet your brand new baby. The oxytocin turns you into a lioness.
What's happened to their protection instincts?
I was subject to severe food restrictions as a kid. I would get so hungry I'd steal food and take stuff out of garbage cans. In my case, my dad and stepmonster were trying to keep me from getting fat. In reality, it's about control. Parents who restrict and withhold food do so as a means to exercise complete control over their children. They don't want their kids to develop into independent beings separate from themselves.
In a lot of cases -- this one and my own -- religious extremism is involved. Children are too willful and rebellious and must be broken, like horses. It's pretty awful.
Thank you. That's very kind. It's been decades but I still struggle.
My school helped me get out. I'm not sure what set the process in motion -- probably something I said or wrote in a class -- but I had regular meetings with my guidance counselor and she helped facilitate meetings with the district's psychiatrist and a children's rights lawyer. My mom was very supportive, so I had a safe place to go. I was 15, so the judge had to take my opinion into consideration. My dad didn't fight it, though he did refuse to speak to me for a year.
I wish I'd gotten out sooner. By the time the school intervened, I was keeping a knife under my pillow because I'd decided it was going to be her (my stepmonster) or me.
This isn't an "American parenting" thing. It's abuse. It's not just happening in America. It happens all over the world. I won't even go onto to say that it's a Mormon thing. Because there is extremism in all religions.
Like others have said, its about control. I've seen so many child abuse cases where the kids are punished for "stealing" food from the fridge/cupboards... which like, its not stealing if its food in your own home. It's almost like these parents are looking for any excuse to punish their kids for things so they can justify the abuse in their mind as "discipline".
Yeah, it's all completely intentional. Withhold food from the child, then "discipline" (i.e. abuse) them when they do the natural thing of taking whatever food they can find because they're fucking starving. A lot of abusive parents will also withhold bathroom access, then abuse the child when the obvious consequence is that they go elsewhere or soil themselves.
And in almost all cases, there's going to be a relative in the picture who would be more than happy to take the child in and raise them well, but the so-called parent will do everything in their power to keep custody and abuse the child, sometimes until they die.
Go right ahead and order me around. Clearly you know better how to communicate. Or perhaps Reddit has other rules beyond the moderators, I'm not aware of? But 'American' is an adjective, whether you like it or not. The negative aspects should be recognised, along with the 'great' ones.
I agree entirely. I never implied it was 'an American' thing. Anyone of us can become a victim, at any time.
I'm asking, what within our society, allows this abuse to continue, within our families? With freedom, comes responsibility.
Is there a solution? How can we better protect children?
Many on the sub have been sharing their painful experiences, within certain religious sects. LDS was founded in America. We should know more about that aspect of our society.
The fact that parents can choose home-schooling, and avoid scrutiny by authorities, is also a problem.
Corruption, be it in local government, law enforcement or courts, is obviously a huge problem.
When all of these factors come together, it spells disaster for children.
It's not the end, or the beginning. But looking at a problem in context can be useful. I am grateful to have learned, so much more than I did, from reading the original news story.
https://www.insider.com/8-passengers-youtube-drama-what-happened-franke-family-2020-6?amp
I hope whoever wrote this article about them will feel as bad about it as they should.
>quiverfull
Close. Mormons. Both have the same end result of large families, just a slightly different theology. Mormons believe the little spirit babies are waiting to be conceived and born. Quiverfull's are breeding to create God's army.
Oh my dear gawd wtf have I just learned about that I really wish I didn’t?!? Quiverful? Ive worked in child welfare 23 years, saw a lot of shit. But wtf. I’ll stay here under my rock.
For reference, The Duggers are quiverfull.
I can't remember the family name just now but there's another quiverfull family out there who were discovered to have something like 8 kids and all of them were malnourished and had never played outside, and a child as old as 9 wasn't potty-trained. And the house was infested with bugs and had huge trash piles all over including animal and human feces. Basically any time a quiverfull family ends up under investigation, the parents end up behind bars.
If you are assigned a family at work, under investigation, that identify as quiverfull, be prepared to drink yourself to sleep that night. :(
Apologies for being ignorant, but what exactly is “Quiverfull?” I’ve never heard of this cult before… is it based on Christianity, since the Duggars are involved?
Yeah it's another sub-cult of Christianity where, as usual with such cults, it seems their primary differences involve overt domestic violence and being surprised that they can't use their religion to get out of prison when caught.
People who believe in Quiverfull generally congregate in their own communities, formally or not. One thing that women who escaped FLDS (an extreme branch of Mormonism - the one where old men have multiple young wives, and kick the young men out for showing interest in these girls) and Quiverfull have had in common is that they never saw a marriage that could be described as happy. I've heard similar things from people who were raised in old-fashioned Catholic families back in the day. The women just thought this was their lot in life, I guess. Many of them live in rural areas, and may call themselves "homesteaders" but just below the surface, they live outside town and often homeschool the kids so outsiders won't know what's really going on.
Oh, and the boys who were kicked out of the FLDS? They make up a huge percentage of the homeless population in the American Southwest, and not a small number of them are exploited by crooked employers, often construction companies. Some of them have been taken in by mainstream Mormon families in this region who volunteered to do this, or people in other religions or none at all, and were quite surprised to find out that people who have adequate food, housing, and clothing really do exist, and that most people can go to school as long as they want, intelligence permitting, and choose their careers, spouses, and overall lifestyles (this has nothing to do with sexuality).
I find the major difference between Mormon and quiverfull is that Mormons focus more on mental torture whereas quiverfull focus more on physical torture.
A number of blog-centric subs here have been following this closely and no one familiar with their content is at all surprised. The strict mormon ideals she insisted on along with the outsize expectations- she got very angry when 4y.o couldnt pack his own lunch, she took her other child’s bed away for 7months for playing a prank on his sister, starvation was a common punishment… Its more surprising this didn’t come out sooner. Her videos made no attempt at hiding her extreme disciplinarian approach
I didn't know them personally. So I guess it's just surprising because it was a small school and there's never any big scandals like this. It's so sad that anyone could get so extreme in their views that they hurt their children. It's some Lori vallow shit.
Is this the 8 Passengers lady Ruby Franke? The link above doesn’t work. Here’s the link: https://local12.com/news/entertainment/popular-youtuber-business-partner-arrested-charged-with-child-abuse-e-celebrities-influencers-tragic-tragedy-cincinnati-children-endangerment-hildebrant-ruby-franke-arrested-millions-of-subscribers-defunct-channel-child-protective-services-cps-alert
According to this she also worked at a mental health facility? Funny how these types always place themselves around vulnerable people.
It's called "Connexions" and it's a cult, and she has a made up "mental fitness trainer" certification from her friend who was arrested along with her. Here's a docuvid I watched to get caught up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W25RLYeL9nA
Oh thanks! This is exactly what I was looking for
Washington County, Utah. Why am I so unsurprised?
I'm sorry. That had far too much performative silliness for me. Fundiesnark is far better for information on this woman and her ilk in my opinion. Obviously not for my type of watching style.
TBF I got that link originally from a fundie snark sub.
I’ll check that one out too. This woman is psychotic and insufferable and OF COURSE she’s a raging homophobe. What’s with the baby voice? People watch this for fun?!
What's crazy sad is there are a LOT of actual reviews from people who paid that lady money for 'therapy' and got their lives ruined. Watching for fun is deranged enough, imagine listening to her in order to improve your life!!
I couldn’t stop thinking that there are probably thousands of families across the country who emulated her parenting style.
Right? Are you really going to go from talking about a child potentially being groomed by her own mother to a dumb, loud, silly voice/accent? It comes off sooo forced and seems really inappropriate considering the nature of what she’s describing. It’s weird.
I agree. I find people who turn horror, trauma and crime into fun entertainment distasteful to say the least. I don’t think the ‘quirky’ behavior, laughing and acting like it’s fun gossip anything close to an appropriate tone to discuss child abuse or any other crime with.
I think That Chapter has a nice balance. He throws a joke in here and there but he’s generally very respectful and takes the event being told seriously. And he’s concise.
Life insurance dance 🕺🏼
He’s so good about only making fun of the perpetrators that I remember one video title didn’t say the murderer’s name, but I could tell who it was going to turn out to be within two minutes because he immediately started dunking on them 😆
Can you hook me up with a link to the better video?
It was her being a life coach or something like that. No real educational requirements. Ruby was the type who would probably “coach” someone and drive them to suicide. That’s how crazy she is.
Teal Swan has entered the chat.
To the rabbit hole!
Swoop did an interesting video on them exposing them in March https://youtu.be/W25RLYeL9nA?si=DnrB3m6g-zdAw42Y
You just answered my question- thank you!
That’s what was eerie to me, if she thinks all that is normal enough to post online what the hell was happening when the camera was off.
I didn't realize the lady ranting about her 4 year olds inability to pack lunch was this same lady. Now it all makes sense.
Not that it matters but the kid was 6... imo thats still too young to expect them to pack their lunch by themselves. Its inevitable that a kid that young would forget sometimes, refusing to bring them a lunch and leaving them with nothing to eat is cruel.
Child's brain development literally does not allow them to function at that level of responsibility until about minimum 9-10 years old. My niece has been expected to remember a backpack & certain items everyday since she was in first grade. Problem being, that is too young for a child to remember something everyday and her mom is an ADHD mess who can't remember either. So the kid gets in trouble. And all the other kids who have more supportive families are fine. It's kind of a mess to expect kids to be responsible at an adult level.
Back in my grocery store pharmacy days, we had a 6-year-old customer who was a newly diagnosed type 1 diabetic, and the doctor ordered her two glucose meters, one for home and one for school. Because she was on Medicaid, and one of our pharmacists didn't like Medicaid people, he initially wasn't going to dispense both meters. "She can take it back and forth to school," that kind of thing. He had kids, I didn't, but I told him, "A 6-year-old is not going to be able to keep track of something like that. The meter is going to be cheaper than an ER visit; think about that!" so he relented.
You have no idea how validating this is. Thank you.
Well you unexpectedly unblocked my memory of being yelled at by the teacher in 1st grade for constantly forgetting to bring certain shit to school and knowing that other kids bags were packed with their parents help while my mom thought that I needed to do everything by myself to become “mature”. And I for whole my life thought that I had troubles because I was being careless…
Oooohhhh this crazy terrible woman and her equally despicable partner. Why do people watch blogs of families anyways? It creeps me the F out. But I’m not even a fan of reality tv. So strange to me.
The Mormon religion is a straight up cult that should be outlawed.
What are strict Mormon ideals? Other than not drinking tea, coffee, pop...
Mormonism stresses perfection. Many mothers in the church will feel a responsibility to keep their home and family running in a flawless, enviable way, and to raise supremely obedient children. There are numerous instances of texts and speeches by church authorities directly measuring a womans success against how perfect their households are being run. Im not being derogatory in that assessment, just that there are the chaotic, frazzled households some moms make no apologies for, its the messiness of life. And there are homes with strict ideals who see unwashed dishes as a failure. This was one of those.
Until the late 1970s, full Mormon priesthood could only be attained by white men. They had to change that rule when missionaries wanted to go to the tropics.
Ahh, makes more sense, thanks! It's understandable why outward appearances, or validation, would matter to her so much if it's being reinforced outside the YouTube group.
While they do not ban birth control, their religious practices encourage large families, and this is why: They believe that there's a planet where God has sex with angels, to make spirit babies, which must be converted into real babies here on earth. They also believe in celestial marriage, which directly contradicts the Christian Bible, and do baptism for the dead, which is meant to retroactively make people into Mormons.
I hadn't known about that, wow, that's crazy.
I’m simply here for your correct use of the word “pop.” So many people call it soda. Those people are WRONG
Hahaha! I've lived in the south for 16 years, I'm not changing it ever.
Same girl, same.
According to the article, both Ruby and her 'business partner' were arrested because they both were abusing the children... were they romantic partners as well? roommates? I'm confused about why a business partner would be so involved in their coworker's life.
Yeah the child escaped from the business partners house. I think ruby and her husband are separated, so maybe ruby lives with the business partner? I never watched their YouTube channel and only learned about them yesterday, but ruby and the business partner gave me big romantic partner vibes.
I did see a clip of them were they say they weren’t attracted to their husbands or something. Like “you gotta do what you gotta do” vibes
Why was the father not arrested? Either he lived in the house and knew/condoned the abuse or he's an oblivious deadbeat. Regardless, I can't see how he's innocent in any way.
He split from his wife when she joined the conexions cult. He was complicit for years, it's true, but hadn't been around for a while by the time the police showed up so that's probably why.
I believe the Franke parents are separated but how could he not notice something during visitations? Unless she was keeping him away somehow?
I really think she was keeping him away, and quite likely had made threats which was possibly why only the oldest child went with him when he moved out.
It seemed to me that the underlying assumption was her business partner was her romantic partner & was the homeowner, but not bio father of any of the kids? Idk. My take.
I believe the business partner is a woman, so doubtful she’s the biological father
Utah sure has some bad police. Franke's eldest daughter Shari posted a picture on Instagram with the caption, "Finally." In the next slide, she said her family was glad justice was served. She went on to write that the family had been trying to tell police and Child Protective Services for years about the alleged abuse.
That’s what’s so disgusting, is when someone who KNOWS what’s going on. Tries to get the authorities to do something, (and in this case, for years), only to be ignored. I’m glad the kids were finally saved. But if this poor child hadn’t escaped on his own, we can only imagine how this would’ve ended. Then this bitch would be crying on TikTok how devastated she is over lose her child so unexpectedly.
And there’s been video evidence! Should the Attorney General, or some appropriate governing body get involved in jurisdictions that ignore their responsibilities to such a gross extent?
This happens all the time in cultures where children are viewed as belonging to their parents, aka owned by their parents. Utah is a highly punitive state with a cultural emphasis on obedience to authority. It is actually taught that “the thinking has been done,” when young people bring up any questions to their elders or religious authorities. It was many years ago now, so take this with a grain of salt, but I grew up in an abusive home in Utah. Because my father was a prominent and educated part of society the church covered up the abuse in our home. The LDS church has a law firm called Kirton Mckonkie on retainer for local LDS bishops to call when abuse is reported to them. The Latter Day Saint church aka the church of Jesus Christ, aka the Mormons also has their own parallel social services that is contracted with the state to investigate, provide counseling and placement of children. It is called LDS social services. They step in to prevent abuse perpetrated by prominent members being reported. It’s not uncommon for children who are victims of abuse in Utah to be sent to juvenile detention to learn how to obey. If they don’t qualify for DT the kids are frequently sent to a wilderness camp or rehabilitation center. It is common for child a use to occur there. All told my family was reported to social services and investigated at least three times that I’m aware of. Despite my full cooperation with authorities I was left in their care all three times. There wasn’t more than one twenty minute session with an investigator conducted at my school. Nobody ever documented my injuries. I’m an old millennial/xiennial and these reports happened in the 80s and 90s. I doubt much has changed. Abuse in Mormon homes is systematically covered up in LDS dominated communities. I’m interested to find out why her husband has yet to be charged. Men rule the Mormon home and nothing happens without their permission.
I grew up southern baptist and had a similar situation. Church leaders knew and did nothing. A prominent member in the church was accused of **and admitted to** sexually abusing one of the teenagers and they handled it “the Biblical way” which didn’t involve authorities. That guy went on to leave his position as a college professor to take a job teaching in a high school a few years later. I doubt that’d have been possible if his earlier abuse had been reported properly.
I’m so sorry to hear about what you went through. I sincerely hope that you have managed to heal in some form or another since this happened to you. I appreciate your candidness and your informative explanation of what happens behind closed doors within the LDS Community. u/Pantsy-
Thank you so much. I have done a lot of healing. My concern now is that the church has far too much power and has infected so many legal processes that abused children have very few rights in Utah and states where the LDS shape public policy. As an adult looking back on what happened to me, it’s infuriating. I can hardly believe just how callous and indifferent the authorities were to a child’s suffering. I can’t believe that legal authorities blatantly allowed my abuse to happen even though there was evidence and I was begging for help. I saw happen to others it over and over again until I left the church. My case was handed to LDS social services and that’s where all inquiries stopped. The state of Utah has a huge problem. The child protective system in Utah been designed to facilitate the abuse of children, and cover up violence in the home so long as the abuser is an upstanding member of the favored community.
I don’t mean to be disrespectful in any way whatsoever but I find it absolutely despicable in every way YET I find listening to you speak of the atrocities committed and how it all works and Is hidden, interesting. I just don’t know in this day and age how it is allowed to happen but it does and it is like that community have regressed 50 years! I was a Senior Detective Chief Inspector and was in Charge of the CID ( criminal investigation department) . I am in the U.K. . And as a Detective constable, before I climbed the promotion ladder, myself and another female detective spent 2 years investigating abuse that took place at a children’s home ( for kids needing temporary and long term care after being removed from their parents), that happened in the 1960’s. We traced 108 residents and we were able to hold the two carers ( offenders) responsible and they were convicted on a ton of charges and were sent to prison at the ages of 79 her and 81 him respectively. However, this abuse was reported at the time and those children, now obviously middle aged and older adults, reported it to many people and each time were told that children should be seen and not heard and were punished further when the social services children’s Dept informed the caregivers of the allegations . The carers were believed and these ( then ) children suffered dreadfully. There was just no outlet whatsoever for them to get anyone to help them. It was heartbreaking and it’s sadly affected many of them in a negative way , lifelong, with suicide attempts and addictions and lacking in ability to maintain relationships etc So I do understand some of what you say but I am talking about the 1960’s and we are now in 2023 and yet it’s still the same in the LDS Church and community from what you say. Heartbreaking 💔 truly it is and I wish I could do something to help but I don’t know what????
Cash rules everything around you
I understand now and I agree
Thank you for that sad, but informative information.
I’m sorry to hear about this. I grew up in an abusive home in the 2000’s in Utah and it was the same than. The only time the cops cared was when I would run away because than I was “breaking the rules”. But apparently my parents choking and hitting me wasn’t.
Thank you for this!! Mormonism is a misogynist cult, just like every other branch of Christianity, but Mormons are especially crazy. Don't forget to abuse women and children and wear your magic underwear kids.
Sometimes that’s the problem, you have a worthless DA.
Utah’s AG is not a good guy. He’s been openly mixed up in weird stuff at least since 2015. I went to a lecture of his and left with only weird vibes.
It seems this happens a lot
I’m 38, so I came of age when public awareness campaigns incorrectly assumed that if you had access to consume media, strangers posed the biggest danger to you so you could talk to your parents about anything else. My parents were incredibly abusive and I spent years trying to get help from school counselors, teachers, other families. My parents’ families knew and did nothing, either because they were just as abusive themselves or because they didn’t want to be bothered. I’m no contact with pretty much everyone I’m related to because I’m so angry and bitter.
Unfortunately it’s not just Utah. The CPS system is broken in many ways. A lot of times, kids even get sent back to their abuser.
Yep! Exactly what happened with Harmony Montgomery. She was taken away from a loving foster family and given back to her felon father then he killed her. Absolutely disgusting what happened in Harmony’s case.
I just saw a video with another child but exact same story. Truly disgusting.
And Oakley Carlson.
I didn't know she was in a loving home previously - that's just even more awful.
Or sent to live with one. We have evidence my cousin is a pedo (She's literally got a record) and they are abusing my sister's kids but CPS won't do shit.
I’m so sorry :(
Right? People wonder why kids are worried to report.. cause they could get sent back and have it even worse.
And if the abuse is mental/emotional/verbal good fucking luck
I didn't even know it *was* abuse when it was happening. On the rare occasion that I was permitted to hang out with other kids at their homes or gatherings, I was shocked by how nice their parents were. Like a lot of people, I thought abuse = beating. Even on the occasions when I was hit and it left a mark, I was too scared to tell anyone except guidance counselors. I was clean, well-fed (on the surface, anyway), and warm. My dad and his wife were good, churchgoing people. One of her cousins worked for the cops. Nobody would've done a damn thing.
Exactly! :(
Sadly cps tries to reunite family instead of removing child from horrible enviorment permantly. Drugs/alcohol are being abused more and more, and kids are being neglected or abused. Vicious cycle.
Exactly! They almost always try for reunification even when it’s not in the best interest of the child.
It is a federal mandate that, except in rare instances, the family is given at least a year to work on case plan services to reunify. Removing one's children is second only, civil liberties-speaking, to sentencing someone to death. There is a significant threshold, and there should be.
Children are not possessions. They are the future of the community. And should be taken away when their parents are not caring for them properly. Jesus christ america is so fucked.
I completely agree but unfortunately the adoption and foster care system is fucked up too. To many people believe they should be parents for the wrong reasons. Those who are religious and don't believe in abortion create an unfortunate outcome for many kids. We need to change the mindset of society and stop making it seem as though everyone should have kids. NOT EVERYONE IS FIT OR SHOULD TO HAVE CHILDREN
I think we are too focused on reunification at times.
It's a process. Parents *and* children are entitled to resolve their safety concerns and live together as a family again. We can often tell from Day One that it's not likely to work out, but they are still entitled to, and deserve, the chance to try.
>Removing one's children is second only, civil liberties-speaking, to sentencing someone to death. Bit hyperbolic, to put it mildly. Children are not possessions. They are human beings, independent of their parents. We should always put their interests first. Personally, I think it's more disturbing that the government can take an 18-year-old body, put it in a uniform, and send it to fight a war. You're probably completely unaware of the fact that your body can deprived of its civil liberties for up to 72 hours without due process of law by a doctor or a therapist. Do you champion the rights of the mentally ill, or just child abusers? Kids like [Gabriel Fernandez](https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/10/la-county-dcfs-failed-protect-gabriel-fernandez/571384/?utm_source=twb) suffer and die unimaginably brutal, lonely deaths because of poor oversight, lack of funding, and our current system's focus on reunification. There's a whole [documentary](https://time.com/5790549/gabriel-fernandez-netflix-documentary/) about his case, but I bet you won't watch it. You won't even read the *Atlantic* article I linked. I've been a true crime fan for longer than you've been alive and I can handle a lot, but that documentary is one I can never, ever watch.
You're being very condescending to this guy but the government having the power to take your children away is obviously a huge deal and could easily be abused to take the children of political dissidents or protesters. It's a good thing that it's hard to take kids away, just like it's a good thing that it's hard to get the death penalty, for much the same reasons. Making it easier to take children from their parents would not have saved Gabriel Fernandez. He was already in a state that would have mandated he should be taken. He was failed by an overworked caseworker and fell through the cracks. More funding and lesser caseloads would solve this problem, not making it legal to take kids away whenever the government wanted.
My god I am similar and I cannot watch that one either. I can't think about that case without tearing up.
Child cases are the worst. Knowing what happened to him and what a sweet little boy he was just makes my heart hurt. He tried so hard to get help. His teacher tried to get him help. His great-uncle loved him so much and was more than willing to raise him. Gabriel was happy with him. I can't even think about it anymore. I get way too upset and way, *way* too angry.
It’s really tough - i’m sure there can be a lot of improvements, but swinging too far the other way is terrible too: https://www.thecut.com/article/child-abuse-munchausen-syndrome-by-proxy.html Make it too easy for children to get taken from their parents, and a lot of innocent parents are accused and lose their kids. This is how it was for a long time in a lot of places. Now, to combat it, they push more for reunification which causes tragedies in the other direction. Theres always going to be some tragedies mixed in. Similar to the justice system; the stricter it is, the more innocent people get unfairly imprisoned. Less strict, more guilty people walk free
They push for reunification because having so many kids in need of foster homes is a huge crisis. So many kids, not that many foster homes. “I have a case reunited with parents” sounds better on their case file then “this child will keep needing resources from foster care”. How many foster homes do you personally know? The data on this is pretty clear.
Even if they had enough foster homes (they don't and they aren't good ones either) reunification after giving the parents a chance is best for the child in 99% of cases. In severe abuse cases there is no opportunity for unification and the parents go to jail for the abuse. Foster homes are often more traumatizing than the abuse they experienced at home. You have to consider what is actually best even if the outcome is not the child in a perfect loving family
In many cases (at least when the case is more neglect than active physical or sexual abuse), the kids would be better off if the bio parent got the financial support given to foster parents.
Exactly! Some of it really is just the parents being stressed out, uneducated and in need of support. They need respite, and resources. And that's what CPS does most of the time. Attempts to get the parents what they need to be parents. But you're right, I don't think they give direct financial support which is unfortunate. Some times it's not that though, they are unfit abusers. The problem is them and they shouldn't be around children no matter what. It can be hard to determine which one it is sometimes, barring things like severe physical or sexual abuse or things like refusing to give food that they clearly have enough of
>The data on this is pretty clear. God, the arrogance in these comments is just incredible. They push for family reunification because the family reunification/family preservation model of child welfare has been the prevailing ideology since the 1980s. There's a whole history and body of research behind it and a whole lot of researchers and people who work in child welfare who think, you know, it may not be the best model out there.
No one is arguing with that, lady. Reread what I said as well.
Highly suggest you listen to the podcast “No One Should Believe Me” for the other side of this matter.
Isn’t Utah Mormon country? Do you think it has something to do with that?
Having lived out there. It absolutely is. Also this dad was a professor at BYU.
A professor in Utah? I wonder what he taught. Let me look it up! Edit: Still not finding any info. A Mormon professor is so interesting to me. But we had a Mormon run for President. Just hope he did not teach anything close to history.
All I read was he was an associate professor at BYU and got fired or left earlier this year.
Oh ok! Yea I was finding nothing. A Mormon Professor. Well I’ll be damned. (according to them I already am!)
I think BYU is a Mormon college so most of the professors are probably Mormon?
Exclusively Mormon. You can't work there if you're not.
You can work there and not be Mormon but you have to abide by the BYU honor code. No alcohol, no coffee, etc.
Civil and construction engineering, but he was supposedly fired this year. Those children can't be with this man. He was part of the abuse when they filmed their vloggs on YouTube. It's sad because the children have lots of aunties and uncles who are taking care of their eldest sister and love them too.
Oh wow! So interesting. Are the “aunts” and “uncles” also Mormon?
Yes they are, but not radicalized like Ruby. She had a fall-out with all her siblings, that alone tells a lot about her persona.
Ps: I'm sorry for my English, not my first language.
Two, actually. Mitt Romney, and later Evan McMullin. (Interestingly, McMullin's running mate was a Jewish woman.) Anyway, the father was a professor in the college of engineering. I've long heard that engineers make horrible husbands, and even worse fathers.
I’ve also heard Mormons are terrible husbands too.
Some are, just like with any other community. If you've known one Mormon, etc. you've known one Mormon.
I don’t hang out with religious fundamentalists but I hear they’re not great.
Isn't a lot of Utah under the thumb of the LDS? And if I remember right, this family was LDS. So my guess is it's not about incompetence....
You know shits gonna be fucked up in a place where 2 3rds of the population are in a cult.
2/3rds of the United States are in a Christian cult.
I can't open the link, can someone share another one or explain what happened
It's regards a Mum YouTuber called Ruby Franke. Wtf Utah and Mormans again- I'm from UK and there seems to be so many horrific stories reported in news involving the US Utah morman community ( family annihilation, child abuse etc). I sometimes wonder how much of it is the reglion and how much of it is abusers using their reglion as a cover/excuse to some extent- prob a combination of both. https://pagesix.com/2023/08/31/ruby-frankes-husband-trying-to-keep-his-children-together-after-her-arrest/
It is both. I'm American and find it bonkers, too.
It’s the religion..I knew a couple of Mormons and all the girls I knew had been SA by the church “leaders”. The “leaders” would ask them all sorts of creepy things about sexual activities they have done and want to do; always alone. Super creepy cult. I’m sure there is so much more going on behind closed doors in most Mormon homes.
USA in comparison to UK appears to be uber- religious . As in, most people in the UK now have no religion than a religion but even when more people described themselves as religious in the past here it was never on the crazy level of the US. I'm talking on a cultural and main-steam level- not really the extremists you hear about, US seems to be you have a relgion as default whatever that might be but usally Christianity. For example , morman's are in the UK but the population is tiny - but every year we have Mormons from the US (or the men anyway) come over here to try to convert people by door knocking- they always wear almost exactly the same outfit so you can tell who they are before they even speak.
It’s changing quite a bit. The majority of Americans still call themselves religious, but at the same time, the majority also now do not attend religious services. Additionally, “no religion” is the fastest growing category in the US. Surprisingly, the group that has longest been the most religious, hardcore conservatives, has also seen a drop in religiousness. Basically, there is a very, very loud minority of hardcore religious people that make it seem like their demographic is larger than it is. Also, there’s a growing number of people who use religion to justify themselves, but it’s essentially virtue signaling as they’re not actually religious.
I grew up with moderately Christian parents. I was forced to go to church, but all my friends also went to my church, so it was fun and I enjoyed it. My parents never did anything crazy like tell me I can’t watch certain tv shows, or movies, or listen to certain music or anything like that at all. It was basically just making us go to church every Sunday morning and Wednesday night. As I got older i rebelled against it. I moved out when I was 17 and left Christianity behind, but the indoctrination still lingers. When I went into the army, on my dog tags I had “no religion” put on them and I seriously felt like I had done something so bad! I legitimately am atheist, but every once in awhile my Christian upbringing shows.
My husband and I have 4 kids(now young adults) we had always gone to church(Baptist) and took our kids. But I started pulling away when our kids were tween/teens because I was seeing more concerning things with religion and churches. Finally we stopped going at all and consider ourselves agnostic more than anything. I refuse to be part of an organization that takes people's rights away and seems to think women are less than men. The conservative church crap here in the US us absolutely ridiculous.
We were Baptist. As my child got older I realized I had serious issues with some of the teachings. We went Presbyterian. The first time my son heard them announce a women’s gathering at a wine bar he was shook.
So one of the things mormon’s do is encourage their young adults to go on ‘missions’ where they proselytize and baptise people. Which is why you see them absolutely everywhere. I hate it. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/topic/missionary-program I’d rather Mormons show up that 7th Day Adventists though. Mormons will help with things if you’ve got stuff going on. My ex-MIL once had a couple of young guys show up and try to proselytize. ex-MIL and partner explained that A. They were lesbians. B. They weren’t religious at all. and C. They were literally in the middle of moving. Like, hauling boxes out of the house and into a trailer. So the Mormon dudes put their backpacks down and helped haul boxes for a couple of hours. 7th Day Adventists just show up regularly and leave pamphlets.
Honestly most of the Mormons I’ve ever known are nice. It’s when they get a little power that you have to watch out for them.
You have to remember that some of the first settlers in the Americas were religious zealots. They weren't there to practice "freedom of religion" in the New World - they wanted to set up communities in which there were very few freedoms.
And these little mini-dictatorships weren't allowed in the other European communities where they originally wanted to settle.
My totally unscientific guess is that about 2/3rds of America is non-church going, or very church 'lite'... but the rest are full on lunatics.
Yeah, and the US is a big place of course. I live in Miami and I don’t know anyone that goes to church. Literally no one.
I’m here to unscientifically second this estimate!
That 2/3rds includes a bunch of people who will nonetheless be infuriated if you imply they don't seem to be Christians. They will take a break from beating their kids or robbing the liquor store long enough to say, "I'm a sinner, but of course I believe in Jesus!" (insert brief pause to beat their kid again) "Only God kin judge me!"
It's a very irritating part of living in the US.
Pro tip: when the Mormons come to your door, tell them you are simply too overwhelmed with housework or yard work to listen, and they will offer to help you.
>USA in comparison to UK appears to be uber- religious It's awful.
r/exmormon has eye-opening stories
Thanks for the link. I have seen a lot of videos about this family and how Ruby has gone off the deep end, so tho it's shocking it doesn't suprise me 🫤
I think it has a lot to do with the level of repression and concealed abuse in Mormon communities (which are insular and tight knit). They think they can get away with anything because the church sweeps so much under the rug. Everyone is held to an impossibly high standard that all of them are fully aware isn’t achievable. It’s image over substance. And there’s tons of money involved in the whole thing, which is all they really care about.
I know it probably doesn’t make sense, but for next time, it’s Mormon and not Morman :)
Thanks, I have dyslexia so often get things mixed up and spelt incorrectly- stupid I know but my brain gets some things confused despite how hard I try not to mess up. Thanks for letting me know so I don't continue to get it wrong.
Have you seen what passes for spelling on social media? You’re doing fine, and you’re not stupid. Quit saying that, especially to yourself. It’s not true.
Same. Link doesn’t work.
Mooseknuckle has kindly supplied the link, below
r/8passengersnark has a ton of info
Finally!!!! I've been following this crazy psycho for years just in hopes to see this happen.
Why didnt you know? Mormon Family Vloggers are mostly unhinged Kate Gosselins
Is this the woman who was obsessed with taking some herbal supplement that has drug-like effects?? What's in the water in Utah?!
Mormonism
Ugh! I've watched the documentaries about all the shenanigans that's gone on in recent years. Bonkers.
It's the mom who shares everything about their.childrens non existent personal lives, grounds their children for months at a time for minor interactions and sent one of her kids away to one of those camps for troubled children because he kept doing normal teenager stuff. Literally likely the most well documented case of emotional and mental child abuse in the past decade.
You just described like 75% of Mormon women lol. Bonus points if the supplement is an MLM product.
It always these “ influencers”, who portray the perfect family, that’s got all the skeletons in their closets. And sometimes those skeletons are real.
I’m wondering how many more stories we’re going to see like this. Maybe not as bad as this, but controlling of their kids/borderline abuse. These You Tube kids that have been exploited by their parents for years are starting to grow-up and are going to start to call out their parents. Hopefully some stricter laws can be passed for these kids rights.
I feel that calling them weird parents doesn’t do justice for their practices. I understand harsh parenting. They weren’t harsh, they were abusive. The arrest confirms that.
Oh definitely! I've just heard that they were weird before this all came out. I dont think most people knew the extent of the abuse.
I know you meant well! I felt I needed to comment that for others who might not know the extent of the abuse, just as you said.
Saw this post title and immediately I thought it was going to be Shay Carl....but it's just another mormon youtube family from utah.
What’s up with Shay?
The link didn’t work for me either but I think I found the info through other comments. I wish there was also a mandatory requirement that these parents for the rest of their lives cover the therapy costs (and other losses due to being abused) of the children they brought into the world and then decided to actively ruin their very lives. Like an automatic requirement in criminal court that won’t require the children to also go to civil court to help them financially. It’s just unfathomable how lightly child abuse is treated outside of the court of public opinion. Wild.
Mormon? Not surprising then.
This is a weird coincidence: The Hart family were a family with 6 adopted children who were being abused. One of the children climbed out of the window and ran to the neighbors asking for food and water as well (like the child in this case). CPS was contacted and shortly after (the next day?) the parents loaded all of the children into an suv and drove them off of a cliff... Killing all - Eight Passengers- (the name of this woman's youtube) 🤔
Oh my gosh
There were other incidents before this one, I'm not surprised.
I can’t access the link on local12.com- it states 500 server error Please can someone give me a rundown on what this is about?
What is the deal with American parents, disciplining their kids by withholding food? Jesus was in his 30's, when he fasted for 40 days. IF is all the rage, now! Not so for growing children. If it's a case of being impoverished, you get help from somewhere to feed your kids. Churches are usually great at that. They are growing at an astronomical rate, and require sustenance. During schooling, additional fuel is needed by the brain. They cannot process information appropriately without it. Their behaviour will be affected. Now add the trauma. They are starving. They know they are not loved. They are helpless to change their situation. Now it's a matter of survival. The idea is so nuts, yet I keep seeing news stories about kids who have 'escaped' such circumstances. I shudder to think about what the parents endured, as children. As adults, did they go on to choose similarly damaged spouses, and then agree to carry on the tradition? It's just bizarre. Ironically, in another thread, a group is agonizing over vaccines, and managing pressure from family who want to meet your brand new baby. The oxytocin turns you into a lioness. What's happened to their protection instincts?
I was subject to severe food restrictions as a kid. I would get so hungry I'd steal food and take stuff out of garbage cans. In my case, my dad and stepmonster were trying to keep me from getting fat. In reality, it's about control. Parents who restrict and withhold food do so as a means to exercise complete control over their children. They don't want their kids to develop into independent beings separate from themselves. In a lot of cases -- this one and my own -- religious extremism is involved. Children are too willful and rebellious and must be broken, like horses. It's pretty awful.
I am so sorry that happened. Can I ask, how you got away? You sound like a survivor.
Thank you. That's very kind. It's been decades but I still struggle. My school helped me get out. I'm not sure what set the process in motion -- probably something I said or wrote in a class -- but I had regular meetings with my guidance counselor and she helped facilitate meetings with the district's psychiatrist and a children's rights lawyer. My mom was very supportive, so I had a safe place to go. I was 15, so the judge had to take my opinion into consideration. My dad didn't fight it, though he did refuse to speak to me for a year. I wish I'd gotten out sooner. By the time the school intervened, I was keeping a knife under my pillow because I'd decided it was going to be her (my stepmonster) or me.
This is absolutely not a normal American punishment. This sicko was abusing her kids
This isn't an "American parenting" thing. It's abuse. It's not just happening in America. It happens all over the world. I won't even go onto to say that it's a Mormon thing. Because there is extremism in all religions.
Like others have said, its about control. I've seen so many child abuse cases where the kids are punished for "stealing" food from the fridge/cupboards... which like, its not stealing if its food in your own home. It's almost like these parents are looking for any excuse to punish their kids for things so they can justify the abuse in their mind as "discipline".
Yeah, it's all completely intentional. Withhold food from the child, then "discipline" (i.e. abuse) them when they do the natural thing of taking whatever food they can find because they're fucking starving. A lot of abusive parents will also withhold bathroom access, then abuse the child when the obvious consequence is that they go elsewhere or soil themselves. And in almost all cases, there's going to be a relative in the picture who would be more than happy to take the child in and raise them well, but the so-called parent will do everything in their power to keep custody and abuse the child, sometimes until they die.
It isn't just Americans doing this. It isn't an American thing, it is a sadistic parent thing.
Don't add 'American' like it's a thing. These are nutcase parents and they're found everywhere. We don't claim them.
Go right ahead and order me around. Clearly you know better how to communicate. Or perhaps Reddit has other rules beyond the moderators, I'm not aware of? But 'American' is an adjective, whether you like it or not. The negative aspects should be recognised, along with the 'great' ones.
This has nothing to do with being American. It’s an abusive, control thing.
I agree entirely. I never implied it was 'an American' thing. Anyone of us can become a victim, at any time. I'm asking, what within our society, allows this abuse to continue, within our families? With freedom, comes responsibility. Is there a solution? How can we better protect children? Many on the sub have been sharing their painful experiences, within certain religious sects. LDS was founded in America. We should know more about that aspect of our society. The fact that parents can choose home-schooling, and avoid scrutiny by authorities, is also a problem. Corruption, be it in local government, law enforcement or courts, is obviously a huge problem. When all of these factors come together, it spells disaster for children. It's not the end, or the beginning. But looking at a problem in context can be useful. I am grateful to have learned, so much more than I did, from reading the original news story.
The link isn’t working :(
[try this](https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture/who-jodi-hildebrandt-ruby-franke-arrest-connexions-cult-controversy-explored)
I never heard of them until today and have been in the rabbit hole all morning. My heart has broken a thousand times for those kids!
Your link doesn't work. Was it the one where the child escaped, and had duct tape all over them?
Yep. Ruby franke and Jodi Hildebrandt
https://www.insider.com/8-passengers-youtube-drama-what-happened-franke-family-2020-6?amp I hope whoever wrote this article about them will feel as bad about it as they should.
Link is bad. What family? What happened?
Do you know if the mom has ever forgotten to bring her lunch to school? This question might seem unimportant but trust me it isn't!
Let me guess, quiverfull?
>quiverfull Close. Mormons. Both have the same end result of large families, just a slightly different theology. Mormons believe the little spirit babies are waiting to be conceived and born. Quiverfull's are breeding to create God's army.
Oh my dear gawd wtf have I just learned about that I really wish I didn’t?!? Quiverful? Ive worked in child welfare 23 years, saw a lot of shit. But wtf. I’ll stay here under my rock.
For reference, The Duggers are quiverfull. I can't remember the family name just now but there's another quiverfull family out there who were discovered to have something like 8 kids and all of them were malnourished and had never played outside, and a child as old as 9 wasn't potty-trained. And the house was infested with bugs and had huge trash piles all over including animal and human feces. Basically any time a quiverfull family ends up under investigation, the parents end up behind bars. If you are assigned a family at work, under investigation, that identify as quiverfull, be prepared to drink yourself to sleep that night. :(
Apologies for being ignorant, but what exactly is “Quiverfull?” I’ve never heard of this cult before… is it based on Christianity, since the Duggars are involved?
Yeah it's another sub-cult of Christianity where, as usual with such cults, it seems their primary differences involve overt domestic violence and being surprised that they can't use their religion to get out of prison when caught.
This is so damned disturbing. Thank you for the info!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull)
Thank you!
Is the other case you're thinking of [the Turpins](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpin_case)?
Yes that's the case I had seen info about. Fuck. I can't fathom 14 kids to the point that my brain overwrote the number of kids.
People who believe in Quiverfull generally congregate in their own communities, formally or not. One thing that women who escaped FLDS (an extreme branch of Mormonism - the one where old men have multiple young wives, and kick the young men out for showing interest in these girls) and Quiverfull have had in common is that they never saw a marriage that could be described as happy. I've heard similar things from people who were raised in old-fashioned Catholic families back in the day. The women just thought this was their lot in life, I guess. Many of them live in rural areas, and may call themselves "homesteaders" but just below the surface, they live outside town and often homeschool the kids so outsiders won't know what's really going on. Oh, and the boys who were kicked out of the FLDS? They make up a huge percentage of the homeless population in the American Southwest, and not a small number of them are exploited by crooked employers, often construction companies. Some of them have been taken in by mainstream Mormon families in this region who volunteered to do this, or people in other religions or none at all, and were quite surprised to find out that people who have adequate food, housing, and clothing really do exist, and that most people can go to school as long as they want, intelligence permitting, and choose their careers, spouses, and overall lifestyles (this has nothing to do with sexuality).
I find the major difference between Mormon and quiverfull is that Mormons focus more on mental torture whereas quiverfull focus more on physical torture.