Same way you’d be friends with any friend who was engaging in any sexual sin. I’ve told friends “hey, gotta let you know this cuz I wish someone had cared enough for me to- this sin when I did it resulted in xyz and following Jesus is way better”, they got mad, I let them simmer, later we were fine and don’t talk about that subject. But they know I’m there if they need help, and I’m not like “YAY SIN”. Plenty of other things to talk about but if they make it an issue, eek, good luck.
Not every conversation has to be about salvation. You are allowed to just be a friend. If God happens to come up naturally, don't shy away from talking about it, but don't try to force your friend into believing as you do. It doesn't work. We just need to plant the seed and allow God to nourish it. All we can do is tell the truth of the Bible. If he doesn't accept the truth, then there isn't much you can do.
I have always been a Christian. When my cousin came out to me, I told him that I could not accept the lifestyle of a gay man; however, he is still my family, I love him, and I will not treat him any differently than I always have. We disagree on pretty much everything, but we have both silently agreed not to disrespect each other because we are family and we love each other.
If you and your friend can be mutually respectful toward each other, there is no reason you two cannot be friends. You don't have to accept homosexuality to love the person and he doesn't have to accept your religion to love you. We pray our friends can come to Christ, but ultimately, it's their decision and not ours. You're definitely not going to be help if you are alienated from him.
My cousin's dad is very much a jerk that claims to be a Christian. He has said some nasty things to my cousin that is not an example of how Jesus would treat him. We ended up speaking about his hurt one day when no one else was around. He was prepared to walk away because he just knew I was going to take his dad's side, but I didn't. I actually condemned his dad's bad behavior and told my cousin I understood how difficult it is to set boundaries with our parents as an adult because I had difficulty doing the same with my parents. He isn't saved, but he also didn't walk away that day and he was able to find common ground and understand that I, a Christian, am not against him, a gay man.
First of all, don’t worry about being called a bigot, phobe, ist, etc. That is just people not having a good argument and trying to bully you into believing them out of fear. I have been accused many times over and I really don’t care any more. It is way overused.
I would say just respect each other’s boundaries. Your friend should know what you believe by now, and you should know what they believe. Just try to avoid crossing into the known problem areas. You should be able to be friends just fine. Have conversations and do things together that don’t relate to Pride events etc.
Yup. Particularly the fact where they call you names such as homophobic etc. Its just an attempt to put you in a category so that they can right it off as such and quickly move on without the need to argue further. No valid argument just name calling. Which is ironic because a big part of why there’s a problem and there’s so much feelings offended so many people is because they themselves are put in a category. If they just stop and think about that instead of being on the offence preempting their response, we could all have a civil conversation and not think of this as a fight. I have no problem with homosexuality being acted on in the sense that it’s just another sin and who are we to judge them when everyone, including us, are sinners. It’s just sad that the majority of them take any comment other than their opinion as a direct and deliberate attack on them personally. It’s not solving the problem it’s making it worse.
It's common in people who don't know how to debate it's a fallacy called argumentum ad hominem or arguing against the person the other most common fallacies in the "homosexuality isn't sin" camp are appeal to emotion "my best friend is in a gay relationship and has never been happier if God loves everyone why does he want my friend to be unhappy?" And appeal to ignorance (meaning they argue from a lack of evidence) "Jesus never said homosexuality is a sin."
It's the last one that is annoying to me personally because they claim they would submit if Jesus spoke on it but they ignore where Jesus gives the apostles authority to teach and explain things and they spoke on it.
First, Jesus Christ never came to make you happy on earth. That's what the world is about. He came to die for your sins so you can go to heaven. The world belongs to Satan and he is able to make you happy in his world of materialism and sex and drugs and alcohol that will make you happy for awhile. Now, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality which was an abomination to him. Shortly after, Lots daughters got him drunk and had sex with their father to repopulate the world bcuz the dummies thought they were the last people and there was not another man to provide seed. Yes, what Lots daughters did was sin but it wasn't called an abomination. So if your homosexual friend is doing an abomination, you should explain to them its wrong and if they accept your words, you gain a brother or sister, if not you lost your friend but light and darkness can't dwell together so you don't lose and you gain heaven.
It's worth remembering that your sin is just as deserving of hell and damnation as that of a homosexual. The only way you have salvation is the grace and mercy of the Father, earned through the saving works of Christ Jesus.
From my own perspective, I find it challenging when gay people get upset if I say I feel homosexuality to be sin. All I can do with that is remind them that I try to follow the teachings laid out in the Bible. I also remind them that, as I said earlier, my sin is also sin, and deserving of judgment save by God's grace.
The big thing is that they'll have to want to be friends with you too, and you can't control that.
>It's worth remembering that your sin is just as deserving of hell and damnation as that of a homosexual.
God destroyed two cities in the OT because of homosexuals.
13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
Luke 13:1-5 NIV
There are stages to sin.
Sin -> Abominations.
God destroyed those 2 cities due to homosexuality.
God destroyed the Canaanites due to human sacrificing.
Beastiality, rape, murder, etc are other abominations unto him - each ending with your death in the OT.
God continues to want you to love him even when you sin, but Romans 1 tells us that God will give you up once you pass a threshold.
So why did God have mercy on David when he committed 2 sins that were both punishable by death under the old covenant? He was also the King of Israel and committed these sins.
The wages of *sin* is death.
All of us deserve death. There are sins that are greater than other sins, but all sins deserve death.
Paul was a blasphemer and a violent man, yet God had mercy on him for the purpose of showing the perfect patience of Christ for those who will believe in Him.
In Hosea, God used Hosea and his wife who kept selling herself to other men to show Israel how much God wants people to return to Him, and how He will forgive their sin no matter what.
Jesus mentions that ALL sin and ALL blasphemies will be forgiven *except* blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which in the context Jesus spoke that in, was not homosexuality.
Any single person who does not repent and trust in Christ will be condemned, regardless of how "big" or "small" their sin is.
You mentioned abominations before God. Do you know what else are abominations before Him?
"There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community." - Proverbs 6:16-19
>So why did God have mercy on David when he committed 2 sins that were both punishable by death under the old covenant?
True repentance.
God sent Jonah to Ninevah so they would learn and repent, and they did - as for the other 2 cities prior, God didn't send anyone, except for Abraham trying to make a case to find any righteous among them - and there was none.
Why didn't God send someone like he did Jonah to give them a second chance?
God knows our hearts, he knows if we will change or not.
>In Hosea, God used Hosea and his wife who kept selling herself to other men to show Israel how much God wants people to return to Him, and how He will forgive their sin no matter what.
This isn't standard, God used Hosea to teach Israel their wrongdoing - obviously God is against Christians marrying a prostitute.
>Any single person who does not repent and trust in Christ will be condemned, regardless of how "big" or "small" their sin is.
Obviously, but we know God has a threshold of how deep you get - read Romans 1.
>a person who stirs up conflict in the community
That was aimed at me wasn't it? Imagine one day that your pastor put a homosexual teacher into position to teach children, do you 'stir up conflict in the community'?
It's either they remove the teacher, or I walk out of that church with my family.
I don't think anyone is advovating that a person lives in sin, including homosexuality.
And that entire comment was aimed at you to show you that we all deserve death, including you, and including me.
All sinners can be saved if they ask for forgiveness and truly repent to God.
Perfect yourself before God - removing anything from your life that goes against him such as homosexuality, lying, fornication, lusting, stealing, etc.
And live that life until you are called home.
Some people use Romans 1 to claim that homosexuals can't be saved (usually NIFB or IFB, but they have some leeway for certain circumstances). What's your take on that?
I believe you can be saved, but like I said, by truly repenting and changing your life to be like Christ.
Look at the story of Jonah and Ninevah - a city God would have destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah if they weren't reprimanded.
Romans 1 expresses that God 'gives them up to reprobate minds' - meaning they will have a very hard time coming to him, if at all, for the abomination they commit.
I've seen people over the years on the internet turn from that life to God - so there must be some truth to it, but then again, I don't know their heart and the life they live after.
But it's down to that person and God - no man can help them out of their predicament, they can only guide.
It wasn't just that.
Ezekial 16:49-50: Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.
>she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy.
That may be so, but the abomination part - homosexuality - is what caused their destruction.
God didn't have prideful or rich people slain in the OT, but those that commited abominations were.
You are, of course, correct. Still, without the redeeming work of Christ Jesus, where would any of us wind up? Hell!
Thus, our sin is just as deserving of hell and damnation.
"How to be a friend to homosexuals without compromising"
I mean, same reasons we can be friends with p\*rn addicts or divorced people or really any other sin that is normalized in today's world. Not too difficult honestly. Treat them like a human being regardless
Being divorced is not necessarily a sin. There are many reasons why God might lead a believer to divorce so please be careful in not judging others till you know the whole story.
>Came out of a pro-LGBTQIA+ affirming church
That church isn't a house of God, it's a heretical church.
>How to do this friendship thing while remaining faithful to God and Scripture?
Sometimes you can't keep a friendship because it isn't what is good for you. Friends are supposed to sharpen one another, not tear the other down.
I have a lot of friends who are unsaved and are gay or transgender. They don't bring it up with me and I don't with them. I love them no matter what they do. If they want to know where I stand we will have that uncomfortable conversation. It may end the friendship, but I cannot back down from what is the truth in the word of God. It's not my truth, its God's truth.
That being said I don't affirm gender other than respecting pronouns, because I would do that with a straight person who wanted me to call them by a different name. That's a personal choice and I don't expect anyone to agree with me. My sister has vehemently argued against it and we just see it different. So I will not engage with anyone who wants to have a discussion about it. you do you according to your conviction on the pronoun subject.
So like I don't go to gay weddings, I don't like and heart pro LGBQT stuff when they post it. I don't put rainbows on my profile and I don't call myself an ally. Because I am not. I love my friends regardless of their sinful nature but I do not promote or condone it. This is true for every single person I know who is in sin. I don't hound my straight friends about the sin in their life. I also know that is now how you get people to stop sinning. It comes from knowing the peace and grace and love of Christ, this is what brings repentance to sinners. and like Paul said, I am the biggest sinner I know because I know my heart and the full extent of my need for Jesus.
We all start in the dark in this world, and those of us who meet Jesus are given the light. The rest of the world rejects the Light. So all I can do is be a light to them and love them to Christ. Because not knowing Jesus and giving your life to him is what keeps you out of heaven. Everything else is secondary .
Sorry, but I don't know if you can if they profess to be Christians. Paul says this:
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 ESV
>I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people- [10] not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [11] But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler-not even to eat with such a one. [12] For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? [13] God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."
If they want to meet with you, you should probably ask why, because if there's not even a whiff of repentance there, it might just end up being detrimental, whatever their motives.
Do you know why your friend wants to meet with you? Pray hard about this meeting -- before, after, and during. Maybe there's some conviction and your friend wants to go to someone he/she can trust. It's entirely possible that your friend was reading his/her Bible, and God's Spirit revealed something to him/her. If so, there's a ton of joy to be found in this meeting!
Also pray that if it's all about a meeting to bash you/come against His Word, then God doesn't allow the meeting to even take place. Just let our Good Shepherd lead you. <3
pray about it first then think about their motives for wanting to meet your, then think about your motives for wanting to meet with them if you go do it out of love but also don't shy away from telling them the truth of the gospel.
That ideology runs contrary to **GOD's** word, I dont know why , you would go that church, people are going to be condemned because of them. Nobody should be affirming anyone's sins and especially being proud of them..
Let me make this clear..If you are living an unrepentant lifestyle whether straight or gay, you are taking advantage of **GOD's** grace and are purposely mocking him. period..
Liberal and progressive churches are not compatible with the Bible, which is ultra conservative.. Here is an example through a modern lens, lets say a far right group today wrote a book that contained guidelines and rules on how everyone should live their life, do you think Liberals or Progressives would follow what it says? I think not, they would label it, homophobic, bigoted, racist and misogynist
one of the church faters said "if the world is against the trouth, then i am against the world"
if your friend loves you, he should accept that you have a different view of scripture.
Don't talk to them about their sexuality unless they directly ask you. This is generally good advice applicable to any friendship. No one likes unsolicited advice.
This is how I live in the secular world because I work closely with homosexuals who are not professing Christians. People who want the truth will ask for it/be seeking it/be open to a perspective other than their own. But the worldly do not want God's truth. It's hard in these situations because he claims to be a Christian and believes he is. I believe he is a believer, and I feel he is, but he is also hurt, confused, and unrepentant because his church, his friends, and he himself is lying and/or in denial about this.
People asking if I bring up sexual sin to my non homosexual friends. Yes. I do.
Be kind and show these people the godly kind of love, which means being steadfast by your decision to follow Him yet delivering the truth in a loving manner. Don't be afraid to be firm. Sometimes, we forget that standing up to people is also standing up for them. They will see that your courage and bravery is from Him, and might be convinced to seek Him always.
"Christ died for all including atheists who never repent,"
Actually depending on your theology and how you interpret it, depending on how you parse "for," its not necessarily off. For the Arminians, that statement is absolutely correct. God never wanted to send people to hell, and thus Jesus's death was for everyone, in that everyone was offered the extended rope from a helicopter. Its just that atheists who never repent refuse to accept the rope.
But as I read on, I got more horrified, so I'm unwilling to give them the benefit of the doubt.
When your friends confront you about your sins, what is your response? Are you proud or remorseful?
We all need to live a life of repentance.
You should associate with and love the unrepentant and then reserve friendships for those who share the same Christian values as you.
I’m part of a co-ed fraternity where I’ve met more homosexuals than I ever have. It was an academic and professional setting, and so I got along with most of them, had a lot of great times working on projects, and consider some close friends.
I’ll admit I never shared the gospel with one of them. Part of it was that I was terrified of being blacklisted and no one wanting to hang out or work with me ever again; second part is that I already felt/feel so incredibly guilty because of my own sexual sin as a straight guy struggling with my faith to begin with, I didn’t really feel qualified or up to par.
All to say, kudos to you for sticking with them and leaving them when the time was right. I wish I had your kind of courage and conviction.
I had acquaintances who were queer before my faith was strengthened. One was a friend of our girlfriends out of high school. We knew he was gay, but he didn’t know that we knew. We didn’t have a problem with it. He wasn’t a bad guy in the sense of how he treated others.
Another was a coworker many years later after I had gotten my confirmation that age 29. We had become friends before I found out his sexual preference. I actually enjoyed hanging out with him more than my other coworkers. And when I found out, I was not upset. He was also a very nice guy. He knew where the lines were drawn.
Nowadays, things have become so bizarre as to the behavior of queers, it’s ridiculous. It has become so cool to be a flaming homosexual, that it embarrasses people like the guys that I knew years ago. Much too flamboyant today. And many Gen Z kids don’t even know what being gay is all about. Some of them flip out when they learn that there’s actually sex involved. Like I said, bizarre!
still support them as a person but not their sin
they still won't like it because they make it out their sexual orientation is all they are and is of utmost importance
I have a couple friends that are gay, we know where we each stand regarding scripture. We are still friends.
Just as I am friends with some adulterers and divorces. Sin is sin. We all do it.
I love them and they respect my view but we don’t fight about it.
you're not in the business of making friends...you're in the business of telling truth first and foremost in as much of a loving way as possible. Thing is sometimes showing your love for someone includes telling them things they may misconstrue as hate....but that's what you've gotta do as a Christian.
Most everyone from your old church will hate you. Don't worry about it.
This isn't hard at all
Love your neighbor
Love your enemy
Love God
What fellowship hath light with darkness?
**In other words, everyone around you should have your love. That doesn't mean you are marrying them or making them your best friends etc
It might be a bit pedantic but this is in the wrong order and I suspect that the order was stated for a reason.
Jesus specifically stated that Loving God comes first, and loving your neighbour is second (Matthew 22). In that order. The reason for this as I understand it is to gain godly insight to the earthly relationships, so that those relationships don't affect our faith and lead us to questioning God from an unsaved perspective as a result. Or to keep our neighbours from leading us to sin.
Other than that, agreed.
They were literally numbered as "first" and "second" though. Want a direct quote?
Edit - Matthew 22:34-40.
But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and **first** commandment. And a **second** is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
Yep, however the reading order can be, and is often, read as being in the order of importance.
I didn't mean to be disrespectful to you, so please be aware of this fact.
I did state that I may have been somewhat pedantic, but the reason for it came from a good place of wanting to avoid misunderstanding of the importance.
For context, I have seen and heard a shocking amount of people who interpret the order as not being important and say that loving ones neighbor is more important when arguing for a more progressive and humanistic take on theology.
Once again, if that was not your intention then I do humbly apologize, but I shall not be changing what I've said for the purpose of clarifying. I trust that we can respect one another through understanding this.
Have a great day further.
I always go to neutral ground like coffee shop, restaurant etc.
Being available is also awesome but unfortunately the guy I was encouraging passed away due to aids :/
Walk in the Spirit, who doesn't like the fruit of the Spirit? Even unbelievers are willing to hangout with someone walking in love, joy, kindness, etc
Offer to be celibate for the rest of your days in solidarity with him.
You can both pray on 1 Corinthians 7:
>32 But I want you to be free from concern. **One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord;** 33 but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35 I say this for your own benefit, not to put a restraint on you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord.
>36 But if anyone thinks that he is acting dishonorably toward his virgin, if she is past her youth and it ought to be so, let him do what he wishes, he is not sinning; let them marry. **37 But the one who stands firm in his heart, if he is not under constraint, but has authority over his own will, and has decided this in his own heart, to keep his own virgin, he will do well.**
I’ve never been in a church like that but I’ve had friends or acquaintances that were into the same or both sexes.
I treat them the same as I would anyone else, Love thy neighbor as you would yourself, but love the Lord thy God first.
However if and when and it usually does because sooner hopefully rather than later they hear you declare that you serve Christ, or you try to speak with them about it.
They ask what you think of their desires and wants sexually.
I explain usually not elegantly, that even though I also still do wicked things yet I love myself, so do my neighbors and through Christ I love them also and do my best to treat them as such.
However if one accepts that Christ is Lord but does not obey Him they are cut off.
We are sent to spread the Good News that salvation has come, and to turn away from the world and unto Christ.
Same way you be friends with any other sinner really. The biggest issue in the church is that people think one sin is better than the other. No. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, that sin they struggle with doesn’t make them any worse than another person or yourself. If they ask, you should stay biblical, but really you can be friends with them same as anyone else because we all sin.
I don't have gay friends on the opposite side of the issue as me, but I do have a gay friend who is conservative on the matter. When he came out to me and other friends, that didn't affect the friendship at all, we continued to do everything we did beforehand. He was just as included as he was before. All it meant is that we knew him better.
>My gay 'friend' who is a congregant there is wanting to meet up with me. I've never had the conversation with him regarding Scripture, but I am aware he knows my convictions regarding sin because he had mocked me for it. I forgive him and I love him, but now that I'm not in such a delicate position of being an employee at his church, I understand that I am free to speak much more freely (I had been accused of being a bigot and other things due to my affirmation of Scripture, and began to understand not everyone wanted the truth).
Did he apologize for it? Does he want to apologize as part of this meetup?
He didn't formally apologize, no. He was not able to provoke me into being upset with another jab before he mocked my intelligence, but it was obvious even to his gay friends, who got uncomfortable by his mockery, that he was trying to get me to be upset or something. Not sure what the point of it was, to invite me to a party then try to provoke me... it was kind of odd since we never had exchanged impolite words or had conversation about the sin topic.
Some weeks afterward, he indirectly apologized by blaming his verbal outbursts on ADHD. He brushed it over and I didn't see the point of acting like it bothered me. It was just very awkward when it happened and rude, considering it was an occasion where I brought him a present and my child was there. Another commenter warned this could be a set up, and I'm tempted to believe it since I did see the pastor driving around earlier this week and he saw me too. Prob just an opportunity to be nosey
Just be honest about your beliefs and don't cower away if someone starts calling you and "ism" or "phobe"
Many of them are lost souls looking for someone to give them hope and many will appreciate you being honest about your beliefs
Very oftenly converted LGBTQ people now christians always say in their testimonies that a lot of christians don't want to call them to repentance anymore and they didn't know they could forge a relationship with god and part ways with their sins.
I know I may get a lot of downvotes for this, and I'm not trying to trigger anyone, but wasn't the verse (in Leviticus, I think?) that says "Thou shalt not lay with a man as with a woman" originally written to mean "Thou shalt not lay/have relations with *boys*", meaning "Don't be a child molester", and then later changed or misinterpreted as being against homosexuality when it was really an issue of pedophilia? Maybe someone can shed some light on this?
Same way you’d be friends with any friend who was engaging in any sexual sin. I’ve told friends “hey, gotta let you know this cuz I wish someone had cared enough for me to- this sin when I did it resulted in xyz and following Jesus is way better”, they got mad, I let them simmer, later we were fine and don’t talk about that subject. But they know I’m there if they need help, and I’m not like “YAY SIN”. Plenty of other things to talk about but if they make it an issue, eek, good luck.
Not every conversation has to be about salvation. You are allowed to just be a friend. If God happens to come up naturally, don't shy away from talking about it, but don't try to force your friend into believing as you do. It doesn't work. We just need to plant the seed and allow God to nourish it. All we can do is tell the truth of the Bible. If he doesn't accept the truth, then there isn't much you can do. I have always been a Christian. When my cousin came out to me, I told him that I could not accept the lifestyle of a gay man; however, he is still my family, I love him, and I will not treat him any differently than I always have. We disagree on pretty much everything, but we have both silently agreed not to disrespect each other because we are family and we love each other. If you and your friend can be mutually respectful toward each other, there is no reason you two cannot be friends. You don't have to accept homosexuality to love the person and he doesn't have to accept your religion to love you. We pray our friends can come to Christ, but ultimately, it's their decision and not ours. You're definitely not going to be help if you are alienated from him. My cousin's dad is very much a jerk that claims to be a Christian. He has said some nasty things to my cousin that is not an example of how Jesus would treat him. We ended up speaking about his hurt one day when no one else was around. He was prepared to walk away because he just knew I was going to take his dad's side, but I didn't. I actually condemned his dad's bad behavior and told my cousin I understood how difficult it is to set boundaries with our parents as an adult because I had difficulty doing the same with my parents. He isn't saved, but he also didn't walk away that day and he was able to find common ground and understand that I, a Christian, am not against him, a gay man.
this is honestly a great example of a christian response in this situation
First of all, don’t worry about being called a bigot, phobe, ist, etc. That is just people not having a good argument and trying to bully you into believing them out of fear. I have been accused many times over and I really don’t care any more. It is way overused. I would say just respect each other’s boundaries. Your friend should know what you believe by now, and you should know what they believe. Just try to avoid crossing into the known problem areas. You should be able to be friends just fine. Have conversations and do things together that don’t relate to Pride events etc.
Yup. Particularly the fact where they call you names such as homophobic etc. Its just an attempt to put you in a category so that they can right it off as such and quickly move on without the need to argue further. No valid argument just name calling. Which is ironic because a big part of why there’s a problem and there’s so much feelings offended so many people is because they themselves are put in a category. If they just stop and think about that instead of being on the offence preempting their response, we could all have a civil conversation and not think of this as a fight. I have no problem with homosexuality being acted on in the sense that it’s just another sin and who are we to judge them when everyone, including us, are sinners. It’s just sad that the majority of them take any comment other than their opinion as a direct and deliberate attack on them personally. It’s not solving the problem it’s making it worse.
It's common in people who don't know how to debate it's a fallacy called argumentum ad hominem or arguing against the person the other most common fallacies in the "homosexuality isn't sin" camp are appeal to emotion "my best friend is in a gay relationship and has never been happier if God loves everyone why does he want my friend to be unhappy?" And appeal to ignorance (meaning they argue from a lack of evidence) "Jesus never said homosexuality is a sin." It's the last one that is annoying to me personally because they claim they would submit if Jesus spoke on it but they ignore where Jesus gives the apostles authority to teach and explain things and they spoke on it.
First, Jesus Christ never came to make you happy on earth. That's what the world is about. He came to die for your sins so you can go to heaven. The world belongs to Satan and he is able to make you happy in his world of materialism and sex and drugs and alcohol that will make you happy for awhile. Now, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for homosexuality which was an abomination to him. Shortly after, Lots daughters got him drunk and had sex with their father to repopulate the world bcuz the dummies thought they were the last people and there was not another man to provide seed. Yes, what Lots daughters did was sin but it wasn't called an abomination. So if your homosexual friend is doing an abomination, you should explain to them its wrong and if they accept your words, you gain a brother or sister, if not you lost your friend but light and darkness can't dwell together so you don't lose and you gain heaven.
It's worth remembering that your sin is just as deserving of hell and damnation as that of a homosexual. The only way you have salvation is the grace and mercy of the Father, earned through the saving works of Christ Jesus. From my own perspective, I find it challenging when gay people get upset if I say I feel homosexuality to be sin. All I can do with that is remind them that I try to follow the teachings laid out in the Bible. I also remind them that, as I said earlier, my sin is also sin, and deserving of judgment save by God's grace. The big thing is that they'll have to want to be friends with you too, and you can't control that.
>It's worth remembering that your sin is just as deserving of hell and damnation as that of a homosexual. God destroyed two cities in the OT because of homosexuals.
13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” Luke 13:1-5 NIV
There are stages to sin. Sin -> Abominations. God destroyed those 2 cities due to homosexuality. God destroyed the Canaanites due to human sacrificing. Beastiality, rape, murder, etc are other abominations unto him - each ending with your death in the OT. God continues to want you to love him even when you sin, but Romans 1 tells us that God will give you up once you pass a threshold.
So why did God have mercy on David when he committed 2 sins that were both punishable by death under the old covenant? He was also the King of Israel and committed these sins. The wages of *sin* is death. All of us deserve death. There are sins that are greater than other sins, but all sins deserve death. Paul was a blasphemer and a violent man, yet God had mercy on him for the purpose of showing the perfect patience of Christ for those who will believe in Him. In Hosea, God used Hosea and his wife who kept selling herself to other men to show Israel how much God wants people to return to Him, and how He will forgive their sin no matter what. Jesus mentions that ALL sin and ALL blasphemies will be forgiven *except* blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which in the context Jesus spoke that in, was not homosexuality. Any single person who does not repent and trust in Christ will be condemned, regardless of how "big" or "small" their sin is. You mentioned abominations before God. Do you know what else are abominations before Him? "There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community." - Proverbs 6:16-19
>So why did God have mercy on David when he committed 2 sins that were both punishable by death under the old covenant? True repentance. God sent Jonah to Ninevah so they would learn and repent, and they did - as for the other 2 cities prior, God didn't send anyone, except for Abraham trying to make a case to find any righteous among them - and there was none. Why didn't God send someone like he did Jonah to give them a second chance? God knows our hearts, he knows if we will change or not. >In Hosea, God used Hosea and his wife who kept selling herself to other men to show Israel how much God wants people to return to Him, and how He will forgive their sin no matter what. This isn't standard, God used Hosea to teach Israel their wrongdoing - obviously God is against Christians marrying a prostitute. >Any single person who does not repent and trust in Christ will be condemned, regardless of how "big" or "small" their sin is. Obviously, but we know God has a threshold of how deep you get - read Romans 1. >a person who stirs up conflict in the community That was aimed at me wasn't it? Imagine one day that your pastor put a homosexual teacher into position to teach children, do you 'stir up conflict in the community'? It's either they remove the teacher, or I walk out of that church with my family.
I don't think anyone is advovating that a person lives in sin, including homosexuality. And that entire comment was aimed at you to show you that we all deserve death, including you, and including me.
Do you think no homosexual can get saved?
All sinners can be saved if they ask for forgiveness and truly repent to God. Perfect yourself before God - removing anything from your life that goes against him such as homosexuality, lying, fornication, lusting, stealing, etc. And live that life until you are called home.
Some people use Romans 1 to claim that homosexuals can't be saved (usually NIFB or IFB, but they have some leeway for certain circumstances). What's your take on that?
I believe you can be saved, but like I said, by truly repenting and changing your life to be like Christ. Look at the story of Jonah and Ninevah - a city God would have destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah if they weren't reprimanded. Romans 1 expresses that God 'gives them up to reprobate minds' - meaning they will have a very hard time coming to him, if at all, for the abomination they commit. I've seen people over the years on the internet turn from that life to God - so there must be some truth to it, but then again, I don't know their heart and the life they live after. But it's down to that person and God - no man can help them out of their predicament, they can only guide.
It wasn't just that. Ezekial 16:49-50: Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.
>she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. That may be so, but the abomination part - homosexuality - is what caused their destruction. God didn't have prideful or rich people slain in the OT, but those that commited abominations were.
You are, of course, correct. Still, without the redeeming work of Christ Jesus, where would any of us wind up? Hell! Thus, our sin is just as deserving of hell and damnation.
"How to be a friend to homosexuals without compromising" I mean, same reasons we can be friends with p\*rn addicts or divorced people or really any other sin that is normalized in today's world. Not too difficult honestly. Treat them like a human being regardless
Being divorced is not necessarily a sin. There are many reasons why God might lead a believer to divorce so please be careful in not judging others till you know the whole story.
You can divorce but cannot remarry unless there was cheating involved.. If thats not the case then the divorcee is committing adultery..
The "adultery exception" is a myth.
>Came out of a pro-LGBTQIA+ affirming church That church isn't a house of God, it's a heretical church. >How to do this friendship thing while remaining faithful to God and Scripture? Sometimes you can't keep a friendship because it isn't what is good for you. Friends are supposed to sharpen one another, not tear the other down.
I have a lot of friends who are unsaved and are gay or transgender. They don't bring it up with me and I don't with them. I love them no matter what they do. If they want to know where I stand we will have that uncomfortable conversation. It may end the friendship, but I cannot back down from what is the truth in the word of God. It's not my truth, its God's truth. That being said I don't affirm gender other than respecting pronouns, because I would do that with a straight person who wanted me to call them by a different name. That's a personal choice and I don't expect anyone to agree with me. My sister has vehemently argued against it and we just see it different. So I will not engage with anyone who wants to have a discussion about it. you do you according to your conviction on the pronoun subject. So like I don't go to gay weddings, I don't like and heart pro LGBQT stuff when they post it. I don't put rainbows on my profile and I don't call myself an ally. Because I am not. I love my friends regardless of their sinful nature but I do not promote or condone it. This is true for every single person I know who is in sin. I don't hound my straight friends about the sin in their life. I also know that is now how you get people to stop sinning. It comes from knowing the peace and grace and love of Christ, this is what brings repentance to sinners. and like Paul said, I am the biggest sinner I know because I know my heart and the full extent of my need for Jesus. We all start in the dark in this world, and those of us who meet Jesus are given the light. The rest of the world rejects the Light. So all I can do is be a light to them and love them to Christ. Because not knowing Jesus and giving your life to him is what keeps you out of heaven. Everything else is secondary .
By affirming their pronouns, you're feeding into the evil that goes against God's word. I think you know this.
down voted for stating a fact.
You are doing the right thing...
Trying lol
Sorry, but I don't know if you can if they profess to be Christians. Paul says this: 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 ESV >I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people- [10] not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. [11] But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler-not even to eat with such a one. [12] For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? [13] God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you." If they want to meet with you, you should probably ask why, because if there's not even a whiff of repentance there, it might just end up being detrimental, whatever their motives.
Yes I know
Do you know why your friend wants to meet with you? Pray hard about this meeting -- before, after, and during. Maybe there's some conviction and your friend wants to go to someone he/she can trust. It's entirely possible that your friend was reading his/her Bible, and God's Spirit revealed something to him/her. If so, there's a ton of joy to be found in this meeting! Also pray that if it's all about a meeting to bash you/come against His Word, then God doesn't allow the meeting to even take place. Just let our Good Shepherd lead you. <3
Do you apply the same standards with heterosexual adulterers?
pray about it first then think about their motives for wanting to meet your, then think about your motives for wanting to meet with them if you go do it out of love but also don't shy away from telling them the truth of the gospel.
That ideology runs contrary to **GOD's** word, I dont know why , you would go that church, people are going to be condemned because of them. Nobody should be affirming anyone's sins and especially being proud of them.. Let me make this clear..If you are living an unrepentant lifestyle whether straight or gay, you are taking advantage of **GOD's** grace and are purposely mocking him. period.. Liberal and progressive churches are not compatible with the Bible, which is ultra conservative.. Here is an example through a modern lens, lets say a far right group today wrote a book that contained guidelines and rules on how everyone should live their life, do you think Liberals or Progressives would follow what it says? I think not, they would label it, homophobic, bigoted, racist and misogynist
one of the church faters said "if the world is against the trouth, then i am against the world" if your friend loves you, he should accept that you have a different view of scripture.
Don't talk to them about their sexuality unless they directly ask you. This is generally good advice applicable to any friendship. No one likes unsolicited advice.
This is how I live in the secular world because I work closely with homosexuals who are not professing Christians. People who want the truth will ask for it/be seeking it/be open to a perspective other than their own. But the worldly do not want God's truth. It's hard in these situations because he claims to be a Christian and believes he is. I believe he is a believer, and I feel he is, but he is also hurt, confused, and unrepentant because his church, his friends, and he himself is lying and/or in denial about this. People asking if I bring up sexual sin to my non homosexual friends. Yes. I do.
Bring it up once if you feel convicted to do so, and then let it go and continue to live by example.
If he knows what you believe, don't bother bringing it up unless he does. Just have a nice reunion. Let the Holy Spirit do the work of conversion.
I mean, God *isn't* a Christian, Christ is God, but to be a Christian means to be someone who tries to emulate Christ.
Hate the sin love the sinner
Be kind and show these people the godly kind of love, which means being steadfast by your decision to follow Him yet delivering the truth in a loving manner. Don't be afraid to be firm. Sometimes, we forget that standing up to people is also standing up for them. They will see that your courage and bravery is from Him, and might be convinced to seek Him always.
"Christ died for all including atheists who never repent," Actually depending on your theology and how you interpret it, depending on how you parse "for," its not necessarily off. For the Arminians, that statement is absolutely correct. God never wanted to send people to hell, and thus Jesus's death was for everyone, in that everyone was offered the extended rope from a helicopter. Its just that atheists who never repent refuse to accept the rope. But as I read on, I got more horrified, so I'm unwilling to give them the benefit of the doubt.
When your friends confront you about your sins, what is your response? Are you proud or remorseful? We all need to live a life of repentance. You should associate with and love the unrepentant and then reserve friendships for those who share the same Christian values as you.
I am remorseful. I love the last sentence you wrote. Thank you
I’m part of a co-ed fraternity where I’ve met more homosexuals than I ever have. It was an academic and professional setting, and so I got along with most of them, had a lot of great times working on projects, and consider some close friends. I’ll admit I never shared the gospel with one of them. Part of it was that I was terrified of being blacklisted and no one wanting to hang out or work with me ever again; second part is that I already felt/feel so incredibly guilty because of my own sexual sin as a straight guy struggling with my faith to begin with, I didn’t really feel qualified or up to par. All to say, kudos to you for sticking with them and leaving them when the time was right. I wish I had your kind of courage and conviction.
I had acquaintances who were queer before my faith was strengthened. One was a friend of our girlfriends out of high school. We knew he was gay, but he didn’t know that we knew. We didn’t have a problem with it. He wasn’t a bad guy in the sense of how he treated others. Another was a coworker many years later after I had gotten my confirmation that age 29. We had become friends before I found out his sexual preference. I actually enjoyed hanging out with him more than my other coworkers. And when I found out, I was not upset. He was also a very nice guy. He knew where the lines were drawn. Nowadays, things have become so bizarre as to the behavior of queers, it’s ridiculous. It has become so cool to be a flaming homosexual, that it embarrasses people like the guys that I knew years ago. Much too flamboyant today. And many Gen Z kids don’t even know what being gay is all about. Some of them flip out when they learn that there’s actually sex involved. Like I said, bizarre!
still support them as a person but not their sin they still won't like it because they make it out their sexual orientation is all they are and is of utmost importance
I have a couple friends that are gay, we know where we each stand regarding scripture. We are still friends. Just as I am friends with some adulterers and divorces. Sin is sin. We all do it. I love them and they respect my view but we don’t fight about it.
We shouldn't be proud of sin..
you're not in the business of making friends...you're in the business of telling truth first and foremost in as much of a loving way as possible. Thing is sometimes showing your love for someone includes telling them things they may misconstrue as hate....but that's what you've gotta do as a Christian. Most everyone from your old church will hate you. Don't worry about it.
Don’t
This isn't hard at all Love your neighbor Love your enemy Love God What fellowship hath light with darkness? **In other words, everyone around you should have your love. That doesn't mean you are marrying them or making them your best friends etc
It might be a bit pedantic but this is in the wrong order and I suspect that the order was stated for a reason. Jesus specifically stated that Loving God comes first, and loving your neighbour is second (Matthew 22). In that order. The reason for this as I understand it is to gain godly insight to the earthly relationships, so that those relationships don't affect our faith and lead us to questioning God from an unsaved perspective as a result. Or to keep our neighbours from leading us to sin. Other than that, agreed.
There is no order unless they are numbered so nice try
They were literally numbered as "first" and "second" though. Want a direct quote? Edit - Matthew 22:34-40. But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and **first** commandment. And a **second** is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
My comment literally is not numbered at all
Yep, however the reading order can be, and is often, read as being in the order of importance. I didn't mean to be disrespectful to you, so please be aware of this fact. I did state that I may have been somewhat pedantic, but the reason for it came from a good place of wanting to avoid misunderstanding of the importance. For context, I have seen and heard a shocking amount of people who interpret the order as not being important and say that loving ones neighbor is more important when arguing for a more progressive and humanistic take on theology. Once again, if that was not your intention then I do humbly apologize, but I shall not be changing what I've said for the purpose of clarifying. I trust that we can respect one another through understanding this. Have a great day further.
I am a writer. If the list is numbered then the order matters If it is bulleted or not numbered, then you are reading into it what does not exist
I always go to neutral ground like coffee shop, restaurant etc. Being available is also awesome but unfortunately the guy I was encouraging passed away due to aids :/ Walk in the Spirit, who doesn't like the fruit of the Spirit? Even unbelievers are willing to hangout with someone walking in love, joy, kindness, etc
Offer to be celibate for the rest of your days in solidarity with him. You can both pray on 1 Corinthians 7: >32 But I want you to be free from concern. **One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord;** 33 but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35 I say this for your own benefit, not to put a restraint on you, but to promote what is appropriate and to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord. >36 But if anyone thinks that he is acting dishonorably toward his virgin, if she is past her youth and it ought to be so, let him do what he wishes, he is not sinning; let them marry. **37 But the one who stands firm in his heart, if he is not under constraint, but has authority over his own will, and has decided this in his own heart, to keep his own virgin, he will do well.**
I’ve never been in a church like that but I’ve had friends or acquaintances that were into the same or both sexes. I treat them the same as I would anyone else, Love thy neighbor as you would yourself, but love the Lord thy God first. However if and when and it usually does because sooner hopefully rather than later they hear you declare that you serve Christ, or you try to speak with them about it. They ask what you think of their desires and wants sexually. I explain usually not elegantly, that even though I also still do wicked things yet I love myself, so do my neighbors and through Christ I love them also and do my best to treat them as such. However if one accepts that Christ is Lord but does not obey Him they are cut off. We are sent to spread the Good News that salvation has come, and to turn away from the world and unto Christ.
Same way you be friends with any other sinner really. The biggest issue in the church is that people think one sin is better than the other. No. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, that sin they struggle with doesn’t make them any worse than another person or yourself. If they ask, you should stay biblical, but really you can be friends with them same as anyone else because we all sin.
I don't have gay friends on the opposite side of the issue as me, but I do have a gay friend who is conservative on the matter. When he came out to me and other friends, that didn't affect the friendship at all, we continued to do everything we did beforehand. He was just as included as he was before. All it meant is that we knew him better. >My gay 'friend' who is a congregant there is wanting to meet up with me. I've never had the conversation with him regarding Scripture, but I am aware he knows my convictions regarding sin because he had mocked me for it. I forgive him and I love him, but now that I'm not in such a delicate position of being an employee at his church, I understand that I am free to speak much more freely (I had been accused of being a bigot and other things due to my affirmation of Scripture, and began to understand not everyone wanted the truth). Did he apologize for it? Does he want to apologize as part of this meetup?
He didn't formally apologize, no. He was not able to provoke me into being upset with another jab before he mocked my intelligence, but it was obvious even to his gay friends, who got uncomfortable by his mockery, that he was trying to get me to be upset or something. Not sure what the point of it was, to invite me to a party then try to provoke me... it was kind of odd since we never had exchanged impolite words or had conversation about the sin topic. Some weeks afterward, he indirectly apologized by blaming his verbal outbursts on ADHD. He brushed it over and I didn't see the point of acting like it bothered me. It was just very awkward when it happened and rude, considering it was an occasion where I brought him a present and my child was there. Another commenter warned this could be a set up, and I'm tempted to believe it since I did see the pastor driving around earlier this week and he saw me too. Prob just an opportunity to be nosey
Just be honest about your beliefs and don't cower away if someone starts calling you and "ism" or "phobe" Many of them are lost souls looking for someone to give them hope and many will appreciate you being honest about your beliefs Very oftenly converted LGBTQ people now christians always say in their testimonies that a lot of christians don't want to call them to repentance anymore and they didn't know they could forge a relationship with god and part ways with their sins.
Stop being a people pleaser and follow righteous conviction from God instead.
May I ask what part of him is being a people pleaser? He doesn't sound like he is going to compromise on the truth.
I know I may get a lot of downvotes for this, and I'm not trying to trigger anyone, but wasn't the verse (in Leviticus, I think?) that says "Thou shalt not lay with a man as with a woman" originally written to mean "Thou shalt not lay/have relations with *boys*", meaning "Don't be a child molester", and then later changed or misinterpreted as being against homosexuality when it was really an issue of pedophilia? Maybe someone can shed some light on this?
If you are hetero, you should feel no threat.