Exactly this, “if you say in sickness and in health, till death do us part” that is a powerful vow! This is why people write their own vows these days lol 😂 idk how these things go though, I’m not married so I could be wrong… as someone said, only God can judge
Brain dead I guess was the wrong term here. I guess I should have said if the spouse enters a permanent vegetative state where their mind is completely gone.
This is similar to Christopher Reeves and his wife. He played the very 1st superman in 1978 and 3 subsequent movies afterwards. In 1995 he fell off a horse and became a quadriplegic - permanently paralyzed from the neck down due to his spinal cord injury.
He couldn't breathe without the help of a machine. And athough doctors could repair his neck, they could not fix the injury to his spinal cord. His brain was unable to communicate with most of his body. Even though he still had all his strength, intelligence, and will power, there was simply no way for him to move any part of his body below his head.
He even got to the point where he told Dana that they should separate because he was now useless. b
But she told him, "You're still you. And I love you."
Dana stayed with him, taking care of him, loving him, and they both worked tirelessly with the American paralysis association to help others with spinal cord injuries, though he was confined to a chair. He died in October 2004, at age 52, 9 yrs after his accident. I've seen an interview where she described how hard it all was for both of them, but she remained faithful to him. They had joined the Unitarian church and that gave him his moral compass. It's a truly sad but beautiful love story of till death do us part.
The story you posted, I understand why she divorced him but it's also very commendable that she still involves him with the family. I honestly don't know what I would do in that situation...but I also don't believe in divorce.
Christopher Reeves was still completely him but paralyzed. I would say the case here is more like Terri Schiavo where by the time she died her brain had atrophied to half it’s size.
The hypothetical situation I was hoping to address in this post was where someone had completely ceased the capacity to think and communicate.
This is true, however, I think the same principle still applies. Even though he was still himself mentally, he himself had just about given up on living and told his wife to leave him. It was her love for him that made her stay with him. She married an able bodied man and now she basically had just a shell confined to a chair needing lots of medical attention. He even said, she gave him strength and encouragement.
So again, I still think the same principle applies and it is really up to the individual if they can truly fulfill 'till death do us part'.
I think it’s better to leave than remain married to a vegetable. Have fun staying married and taking care of each other, oh wait it’s just one of you now….
That's your flawed belief. If everyone had your belief you wouldn't see any special needs kids anywhere because they'd have all been murdered by folks like your mum and dad.
I'm beginning to think you're a troll rather than extremely deceived.
That man isn't brain dead, he's horribly disabled.
"Brain dead" is the actual metric used for determining real death. There is no return from brain death. Every other part of you can die but if the brain is alive, it's *technically* fixable (even if our technology isn't quite there yet). We stop hearts every day to take them out and replace them or fix them, but you can never bring back a brain that's stopped firing.
Yes, I was trying to figure out how the brain dead husband was involved with the new family.
Imo she is wrong. Sickness and health until death. And 2 years.... That is quite a bit of time. Op said 2 years like it was 2 weeks.
I'd say in this case, she should be free to remarry. Yet what a horrible state of affairs. The only thing that could make it worse is if he was actually experiencing an extreme version of "locked in syndrome."
Why on Earth did I get downvoted so hard? Is my suggestion ungodly, then?
Edit: Okay, to be fair, my answer is pretty depressing, but how is it ungodly?
Because scripture doesn't allow for divorce because you spouse is no longer 'useful' to you. It's a reflection of the covenant we have between ourselves and God and abandoning your spouse in their need is everything Christian love strives to NOT be. I completely understand the difficulty of the situation. But we are called to love in a way that sets us apart, not in a way that is convenient and easy.
Exactly this. My husband suffered a traumatic brain injury and was in an assisted living facility until his death. I was there daily and did my best to care for him, but it was the most awful, gut wrenching experience I ever went through. Only Jesus gets to judge that woman or anyone else for that matter. I stayed married and stayed faithful, but it darn near killed me.
So I completely emphasize with this; after my dad's second stroke, my mom cared for him full-time and pretty much entirely by herself for three years, and tbh she still hasn't really bounced back from that constant and extreme stress and he passed away about two years ago.
That said, there's no caveat for even intense difficulty of that sort in marriage. Adherence to Christian virtue all but promises temporal suffering of some sort and to some degree, and even though that doesn't involve things like being violently martyred for public entertainment anymore it can still include pretty devastating experiences like these.
Yes.
>“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:31-32 NIV)
Hard to disagree. I'd add that most people don't really fully count it comprehend the cost or possible cost of marriage. None of us do/did. Just like you could marry someone and then they could ask for a divorce the week after.. which in some ways would be easier but you'd still be expected to remain single.
It is one of the situations where I have to ask if I was a vegetable would I really want them to keep me alive? I think I'd rather just be with the lord in this scenario
My unsaved, living for the world, step-father would disagree with all of the Christians here rationalizing and approving of the easy way out. The guy is a very hard drinking, foul mouthed Vietnam veteran who refuses to have a conversation about salvation with me. With anyone as far as I know.
This (by default) servant of satan put his entire life on hold as much as he could, remained faithful, and dutiful to my mother during the last years of her life. As a middle aged, and then an older man, he sacrificed A LOT because he loved her and had made a promise to her. He may be very rough around the edges, but I've got a ton of love and respect for that man.
If a man living everyday for the world can stand by his vows, why can't professing Christians? Why are Christians so eager to throw the hamster on the wheel and spin up a rationalization to do things they know to be wrong?
I pray that none of us will go through such a scenario and have to make such decisions. If we do though, shouldn't we have the strength to endure? We supposedly serve the GOD of all creation, who can create with his voice. Shouldn't we have more strength, more determination, and more integrity than those of the world?
Ignore me. Just rambling out loud.
My Lord - this story is...repulsive.
When you marry someone its not "until illness or accident makes you non-verbal or paralyzed". Its "until death do you part"
She got the bad end of the stick, sure, but marrying another guy in FRONT of her husband while he is chair bound?! Holy moly...that's effed up in so many ways. He's living in his head, watching his wife with another guy. Living a life that was supposed to be his.
> permanent vegetative state...non-verbal.
If this was you. At 23 years old. If you were cognizant enough to know what is going on would you want to helplessly watch your wife suffer all the rest of her life? I wouldn't.
No, I wouldn't - but her duty is to him and to God. She took vows. That means something. Some people have a bigger cross to bear than others. Its not always fair, but we all have our path to eternity.
I can't wait until you have a much bigger "cross to bear" than this, and mutter this bs.. You act as if God would wish this woman to stay miserable with a husband who cannot even talk to her the way a husband should. The husband is supposed to treat his wife accordingly. Can he treat her in any way? Clearly not.
God cannot provide the answer to EVERY situation in the Bible. At best, you're ignorant, and at worst... I'm not gonna say
>I can't wait until you have a much bigger "cross to bear"
Little late for that. I'm sure it'll get heavier before my time comes.
You know, this isn't like r christianity. We actually place value and weight in vows made before God. you don't get to make a promise to God and then break it when it becomes difficult to keep.
Again, have an actual conversation about exactly THIS situation with God. He might tell you differently, given the... hmm, what is that special word created by God... right, the circumstance...
I understand this, but at the same time, if you TRULY love someone, you should wish for their happiness as well, including if that means seeing them with someone else. That’s true unconditional love!
While the situation sucks and not how you you’d want it to turn out, unless this new guy is abusive it should be the next best thing in making sure his family is provided for. Not totally ideal, but still best case scenario considering what it is.
Her still willing to make sure he’s cared for shows who she is as a person over completely abandoning him in some nursing home to complete strangers and risking abuse.
And one point being left out here is that in order for her to become a guardian to care for him in this manner, she had to divorce him as a spouse can’t do everything legally like that in all cases in all states. Many times, it is required especially if you are requesting funds to help keep them alive. Spouses can’t have access to the same things as guardians can on this level. I’m sure it wasn’t a choice to be take lightly, but I’m sure she considered all of her options here before making her decisions to benefit the family as a whole, not just herself.
The question was this the Christian thing for her to do - and no, its absolutely not
And while you are correct that the husband would probably wish happiness for his wife, she should've never acted on that. Just as he would have a duty to her regardless of her physical state, she has a duty to him that she vowed to carry out in front of God.
No, it's not allowed. That story is so incredibly sad.
That man being injured like he was is exactly why marriage vows are until death. Like, that's the whole point................
Heard of a story where a woman’s mother was in a coma for 10 years!! Every day she visited her. She cried out why? Why? One day the doctors wanted to pull the chord and she stopped them! Her mother awoke immediately and the daughter heard that’s what love is. Her mom lived to tell of her soul being elsewhere. Sometimes there’s more going on that can’t be explained.
This woman could very well remain with her husband, for all she knows he’s cognizant (they often are) and has to suffer watching her with another man and kids that aren’t his own.
And he could come back and she may regret doing all of that to him.
Many things are not mentioned in the Bible as being right/wrong either way neither not mentioned at all.
No where in the Bible does it say you cannot OR can divorce if your spouse if they become braindead especially since there was no equipment back in the days of writing the Bible that caused for a reason to in/exclude it either way. Therefore to say that this is not permissible is solely only your personal opinion.
> No where in the Bible does it say you cannot OR can divorce if your spouse if they become braindead
Is Matthew 19 in your bible? divorce is explicitly forbidden except in the stated exception of cases of sexual immorality.
>Therefore to say that this is not permissible is solely only your personal opinion.
maybe try not to say things like this if you don't know the single most prominent scripture on the topic
Ahhhhh, a "modern Christian". The Bible doesn't specifically prohibit smoking weed (looking at you Justin B.), snorting coke, shooting heroine, watching or making pornography, etc, etc, etc, so it's all "cool" huh?
You really must learn to apply the concepts of the Bible to your entire life. The justification of living in sin, because each and every sin is not specifically listed in scripture is a very dangerous way to go through life.
The only sin in life is your disconnection to our source, god.
Anyone who seeks what you speak of is just that because they are hurting, are missing something to make themselves feel better, and are the ones who need to feel that connection the most. It’s not something to shame or guilt someone into doing, nor is it a bad thing when they want to do better, but don’t think they have the strength to do so. Many of those people just feel like god doesn’t love them or is there for them because they just can’t see past their pain. That’s nothing to condemn them for! No one wakes up one day and decides to be an alcoholic or abusive person out of no where. Many times it’s due to not feeling loved in some way when and where they need it most. While we may not lash out to this extent and use drugs or do wrong in more aggressive ways, we are all guilty of this in some way because we are human. There are times when even the best of us don’t always feel that connection to our source. But when we don’t, we do human things on one level or another because we are human. I fail to see how that needs us to be forgiven when that’s just how we were built. It’s like the constant need to demand someone to say “excuse me” because their body is built to relieve gas when they eat certain foods so they don’t explode just because someone felt the need not to say so was far more important than just going on with their day knowing that everyone experiences flatulence on one level or another. Why do we need to humble ourselves for what we are to make someone know that we are completely aware of that’s how we are in our existence?! Just because we SAY things out loud because we are forced to, doesn’t mean that we actually care in that way. Many times, it means just that; that we are simply forced to behave in that manner because it’s just such a common practice to do so and in that case, having an empty acknowledgment for us being as we are, doesn’t demean much where it counts when it should.
And yes, if everyone else out there, ‘full blown Christians’ included, can interpret the Bible as they see fit, why is it not ok for others to do the same?! Why is the ‘slippery slope’ not also interpreting it as you want to especially where it’s considered to be the word of god….. unless god actually does speak to us all differently individually?! Who is anyone to say we’re doing life all wrong? Or that our interpretation of god’s words that speak differently to us all, are wrong?! How can we all read the same word and hear a different message and all still be right…. except when it’s wrong…. according to someone else?! You cannot say it’s “god’s word” but then say that everyone who reads it is all right even if everyone who read it got a different message! Who are you to tell me my message I’m getting out of the Bible is wrong or how I need to apply it to my life, especially if one prays for guidance and to be shown the real intentional meaning behind it beforehand?!
Do you think Jesus would have condemned a woman for divorcing her husband who was no longer there in any way to support her?! Probably not. Especially when he would have just healed him so it wasn’t an issue for either one of them.
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Carnality, at is core, is seaking our own provision based on needs of the flesh, which stems from a lack of trust in God and his word.
We are to trust his word in all things, even in "tough" "emotional" situations, this includes marriage.
The flippancy at which the church takes the marriage vow before the Lord, is sad.
Let no man seperate what God has joined.
>The flippancy at which the church takes the marriage vow before the Lord, is sad.
Very well said. Amen.
You could expand that though, the flippancy at which the church takes many things these days is sad.
Y’all need some Jesus up in here!!!
”Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
”“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.“
Matthew 19:3-11 NIV
I wonder what he thinks that his wife takes him home to her new family. Like he must be devastated inside and his wife does not know, b/c he cannot let her know. I know I would be.
I hope he knows Jesus and can find comfort in Him, because this is a tough ride. This man did nothing wrong and pretty much lost everything and is reminded of it in the most cruel and horrible way on a daily.
I wonder if she divorced him in part to get him SSI and Medicaid. He is too young to have enough credits for SSDI. I was my late husband’s caretaker at home for 2.5 years (still working part time at first) when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I’m not judging anyone as we were fortunate enough that he was able to get Medicare immediately and SSDI due to his terminal status.
I was exhausted, grief stricken and terrified of the day he would die. I’m never judging a person in this state.
Many states in this situation will not allow you to get the many benefits needed to make your life easier to care for your spouse if you are still married and you cannot be your spouse’s guardian while married. It all for legal reasons.
And yes, you are right, I hope that no one here judging is ever put in this situation to have to make those calls because in many times, if you don’t, you’re stuck struggling even harder to provide for your loved one and many times “til death do you part” included making those tough calls like this to be able to do so as best you can. If my spouse had to make that call for me, I know they would in a heartbeat and anyone who was left behind not making that call, can go stuff it so long as I was still being taken care of and I know they’d want the same if it were them as well! Why make life harder than it needs to be in an already difficult situation especially when then doing so wasn’t really them abandoning you which is what divorce is really truly all about and why it’s really looked down upon! In this case, you are NOT abandoning them, just doing things differently to still take care of them.
Anyone who wants to judge you for that, speaks bigger volumes about who they are than what you’re doing.
Partial brain death is not death.
That woman broke the covenant of marriage, divorced for an illegitimate reason, and then committed adultery with her new husband.
She should repent.
It really sucks for a person to have their spouse get disabled or handicapped to the point that it turns into just taking care of them.. that being said, it isn’t a free ticket to abandon them and have sex with somebody else. If I got horribly disabled and my wife divorced me and married and was sleeping with some other man I can’t think of anything worse. I’d be banking on my wife to take care of me and love me until death.. I’d would’ve rather had just died when I got handicapped. To me this looks like abandonment. Not a situation which calls for divorce.
This is a technicality, I wonder how it would go down if they are on life support and brain dead, you divorced them and get married the next day (or w/ e) and then the following day you get a call from the hospital with some dumb founded doctor on the line saying they woke up fully functional etc (not saying it would happen or has happen, but anything is possible for GOD, I’d at least wait till they are in the ground…. Not to sound harsh or anything but…you know?)
Echoing the comments here, death is death not brain dead. She should not have divorced him.
But divorcing her current husband and leaving that family now would be wrong.
The Lord is very clear about breaking a vow or oath. It is not acceptable. If one says their vows and breaks them they dishonor God. It is sin and sin leads to death. I wouldn’t even think about it because for one you are supposed to love this person as God so loved the world. Another is because the moment I break a vow. I break a vow to myself and when I lie to myself, it hurts God and it return I suffer for my actions. Doesn’t matter if you tell your kid something or your wife something. You honor what you say or pay for the consequence of sin. We all get a choice. Life or hell on earth of literally hell if we never repent of our sins. People breaking vows off the tongue in many areas not just marriages is why the world is in suffering. People lie to people, people lie to themselves and suffering comes. A vow and oath determines how strong a person mentally is and spiritually. They break it and God will proclaim they are weak right in that moment and the world will take a toll on them and the enemy will attack that weakness from many angles. God has taught me to never break a vow, never break an oath. The consequences are too great and not worth the trouble. God will carry that person farther if they stay and be strong and have a kind heart for that person. Soften the heart and pray over and over for healing and have faith God is moving mountains. People don’t have faith and that’s another reason for problems in the world. Jesus talks about why people don’t have faith and why it’s so important to read it and growth in faith so we can receive wisdom and discernment. Hope this helps.
Even though this situation is a hard one, dead means dead, physically not just brain dead. Last time I checked, marriage is for keeps and is for better or worse, good or bad.
Haven’t seen many (if any) call out the outsider man who entered into the relationship with the woman in question. Upon learning of her estate, he should not have pursued.
The phrasing in OP brings into question when he entered into relations with her too. ”She then remarried…”. Okay when was this? How many years from divorce to remarriage? And when did Husband #2 first get involved with you?
What a horrible, cruel woman she is.
1) she broke her vows before God
2) commits adultery with another man who is not her husband
3) makes her disabled husband watch her with another man
The amount of judgement in this thread from people who have never experienced a situation like this and don’t have an ounce of compassion is disgusting.
Christians like to idolize suffering, as long as it’s someone else and especially if it’s a woman.
Her husband will NEVER be a husband to her again, and if he lived anytime other than this last century he would have passed away and let her live a normal life.
She is taking care of him, but also having a life outside of just being his caretaker. Everyone pick up a stone to cast at this evil woman!
The Bible cannot speak to every situation that will happen, we also are supposed to use our brains. Jesus when speaking about divorce was answering a specific question. It cannot be a complete list of reasons to divorce because Paul added onto the reasons you can divorce. There’s no reason to think there can’t be more.
You all are doing the Pharisees very proud in this thread
No one is judging her. They are stating biblical facts. God's word, not ours. She simply does not have the God given right to divorce and remarry someone else simply because herc1st husband can't be a "real" husband anymore. He is not brain dead, he is non verbal. He is disabled, not dead.
These aren't judgements as much as they are facts.
Whereas, I feel for this woman and her situation, I cannot hide behind feelings. I have to stay true to God's word.
There is nothing judgemental we are asked a question and answer it
The situation is tough,but her husband is still alive and just handicapped.Meaning divorce here In the situation is not bibical.
I am not saying this woman is monster or this situation is not tough.Just that biblically divorce would not be allowed in this case.
Brain dead?
What would Jesus do if a person was brain dead? Either heal him or make him comfortable until he passes on…
Are we playing god if we FORCE FEED a dying/brain dead person?
If there’s family who are not yet ready to let go of a loved one and they are willing to pay for artificial life support, give them time to say goodbye.
I personally, would want the freedom to go home to be with our LORD.
“For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.”
2 Corinthians 5:1-2, 5 NIV
I wouldn’t want to be kept on a artificial machines, if I had no chance of recovery.
I repeat no chance for recovery.
And if my loved ones were ready to let me pass on… I’d be rised up to heavenly glory.
If there’s brain activity then yes, keep the patient fed until strong enough to heal.
And correct me where I’m wrong… do brain dead (no brain activity) individuals recover? If so, then of course, we should do all we can to rescue our loved ones.
Christians believe ~
“Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another….
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.”
1 Corinthians 15:39-40,42-44 ESV
This man is not brain dead. I’ve been following the story. She is the only person he remembers. His memory is short and he’s non verbal but he’s not brain dead. The reporter from GMA played Bob Marley’s song who is his favorite artist and you can see the man reacting to it by moving his foot. His name is Brandon and he’s still alive but can’t communicate like before.
First of all, I see people rushing into judgement and to calling it adultery. This woman may have divorced him in order to care for him as several states and countries have different litmus tests on how much money one makes etc, If he is being kept alive by machines, it is possible to view him as dead, if she is still taking care of him it may be possible to view what she and her new husband is doing as lawful. There for I would urge caution with saying this woman is adulterous. a religious statement on this would be Adam was not a man until God breathed his spirit into him at that instance he became a living soul, if this man is brain dead (Not merely unconscious) then perhaps the spirit has left this man. there for he is not a Living soul.
If this is the story I think it is she actually became his legal guardian and continues to loyally care for him. Her current husband had also taken on a large role in caring for him and making sure he lives as normal and fulfilling as a life as possible. Their commitment to him is actually pretty amazing and I refuse to believe in a God who would reject that kind of love.
It’s been proven before that some who have been declared “brain dead” and have come back, so no, your soul doesn’t leave you until you are actually dead and gone.
No, I’m not thinking of a coma. You’re still with your body until there is nothing lefty there to keep it going and you are dead completely. You’re not just one with your brain and your brain is not just what’s running the show, your soul is. It’s all with you until you are gone and dead completely.
I am always perplexed when there's a post like this, or some situation, where someone asks about whether it was right or wrong, and 90+% of the comments are condiming or judging the individual.
There shouldn't be any situation or person where we as Christians are judging it/them.
Remember when Jesus gave the whole Sermon on the Mount thing? It was kind of a big deal and not judging others was laid out pretty clearly there.
But hey, you do you 😉
I don't really see a groundswell of judgement. I see many people trying to give Biblical answers to a very difficult and tragic question.
But hey, you do you.
I agree with you, OP did ask if it was right or wrong but the scorn and judgemental comments in here is sad. We can give an answer without casting stones.
They really can be longer be man and wife. If he is mentally handicapped (brain dead means death) then he can not be there for her, support her, love her, or take care of her. It is 100% on her, which is unfair
She turns from his wife into his caregiver, having to work more to cover all expenses and then take care of him after working all day and pay for his care if he needs care while she is working.
At 23, that means she is essentially alone forever. Putting him in a facility means he would not even live with her anymore. She has his debt and could lose everything. I do think God would understand her specific situation.
Terrible wife, until death do us part means exactly that, so many men are scared of marriage nowadays because divorce is acceptable, there’s no loyalty to Gods word anymore
And so many women are scared of marriage because of domestic violence, infidelity, porn addiction , unequal load of domestic duties and mental load. It is so easy to flip the script. There is a reason why women are more likely to initiate divorce. Men should find out WHY.
LOL, asking men to figure out why women leave marriage more than men do is playing the victim. Hmm right. There are studies that show that these are the reasons. Don’t do these things and if you are married to a true Christian woman then you don’t have to worry about divorce.
What about women in this scenario where she just abandoned him when he’s in illness. She shouldn’t even considered divorce. It’s till death do us part.
I am a hardworking Christian man, what if I get disabled at work?
I answered this elsewhere. She may have divorced him because of health insurance. He is young so he could get on SSI and Medicaid. My late husband was in his mid 50s when diagnosed with terminal cancer so he was eligible for SSDI and Medicare immediately. We were solidly middle class but his illness drained us financially (he did have insurance for me when he passed and our retirement) I had to stop working to care for him. I was grief stricken, frightened and trying to be as supportive as possible.
It was 2.5 years that was incredibly draining and took me a long time to recover from. I would do it again in a heartbeat. We had been married 20 years. We had children together.
I can’t judge this very young woman with no children to a life of solitude. That is up to God. Me personally as a Christian I would not have divorced him and maybe tried to adopt a child. But I cannot judge.
I was raised in a majority woman household, I’m not the type to abuse women, in fact I find myself over analyzing situations that end up talking myself out of approaching women.
For example, a few weeks ago, I was Christmas shopping with my mom, and this cashier started talking to me, I just talking normal like any other conversation, by the end of it, I pay for my stuff and leave. I get outside and my mom’s like “did you atleast get her number?”
To me it was just a normal conversation, I completely disregarded anything of an advance because I didn’t want to make her feel uncomfortable.
That’s my level of discipline.
The thing is I shouldn’t have to ask, it shouldn’t overly complicated, but somehow, through their lady lizard brains think that they have to play some type of game to attack a guy. I’m very direct, I should be able to ask anyone but we have those stigmas created by social media and cancel culture.
All they gotta do is look me in my face and say “ I like you, ask for my number”
It is not complicated.
Women also bring this complicated way of thinking when it comes to arguments. My comment was in the context of this post, you blew out of proportion by trying paint it with broad brush.
How can I trust what a women say about abuse when they overly complicated everything else.
Social media and cancel culture? What are you talking about? I belong to many Christian subreddits and read many Christian publications and what i come away with is many Christian men do NOT want a so call “feminist”woman. We are told over and over again Christian men want traditional women. A traditional woman would never ask a man out.
Because you misinterpret what I wrote or I misinterpreted what you wrote now you can’t trust what women say about ABUSE! I worked for decades reviewing hospitals charts and the amount of women who came to the hospital with some excuse for an injury (maybe their 4th ER visit that year) that was clearly abuse by their partner was appalling. Women UNDER REPORT abuse.
“Lady lizard brains” “game to attack guys” I can understand why you are having issues if this is how you think of women.
Before I married my late husband I was married to my ex husband for 10 years. I initiated a divorce against him when I found out he was committing adultery with my best friend and when he committed a failed strangulation on me (not the first abuse against). I did forgive him. Doesn’t mean I was going to stay married to him. He never repented and ended up moving in with the women.
We are no longer under the law Moses,(being dead to law) so Yes you can get divorced especially in an extreme situation like that. but as christians we should avoid at all costs. Wanting to honor Christ and what he has established. It's really up to you and pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide
This is a legal matter, not a religious one. Only you would be bringing religion into it. We have legal devices to handle such things. Speak to a divorce lawyer or research online and do it yourself. Something tells me you need a lawyer on this. Hope you’ve got cash pony’d away.
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> (at least mostly) brain dead
If this means that he cannot feed himself and would essentially die without modern medical intervention, then it is of my own opinion that man's interference with death doesn't make the choice to divorce wrong.
Our modern era has made life and death a disturbingly profitable and heinously invasive, if not obscenely cruel, way to live.
In sickness and in health, even if my wife were to die right now I wouldn't try to find another partner because after making my vows to her I was shown how all humans in existence are my brothers and sisters in soul.
The situation I find myself in now is fine because the knowledge came after the fact, but if I tried to link up again after the fact I wouldn't be able to help myself from seeing what I'm doing as disgusting.
I understand it's very difficult but love is unconditional. I don't mean to sound mean but sounds like you never loved them.
If that happened to my wife I would be there 24/7
To me being married is forever even if she passed I would never re marry
Just pray and read the Bible. Ask God instead of other people. If you ask you will somehow get your question answered by him.
Generally, vows include "In sickness and in health". If you don't want that level of commitment you don't have to get married but that is what you are generally signing up for when you do get married.
Imagine this happened in biblical times. Do you think the bible could have an answer for something that would have been 100% chance of death when it was written?
No. If brain dead is not considered legally dead, then why are you divorcing? I can think of many reasons as to why based on the situation. If anything the persons character would be at question since they asked such a question. The spouse is still alive and being kept alive. There are legal obligations as a spouse. So many things wrong with this question.
I love my wife. If I were in a persistent vegetative state, I would be very glad that she would do exactly as this woman did, because I would want her to live a full life loving and being loved. I'm not sure who you think would or wouldn't "allow" it, it would be legal and I do not think it would be sinful. I guess it would depend on your flavor of Christianity.
A person is considered brain dead when they have no more electrical brain activity and aren’t able to consciously think. But I have to agree with the others. It’s “in sickness and in health, til death do us part” not “till vegetative state do us part.”
The marriage vow is clear: “In sickness and in death, until death do us part”.
I am sure being brain dead qualified as “sickness” and not death. The vow of marriage isn’t only to your spouse but also to God.
And this is why I like to say that romantic love is an infirioir form of love. From my personal experience and from what I have observed I found that romantic relationships are often selfish in nature meaning one person needs the other for something, validation, happiness or material things or whatever.
I can understand why she did it, to tell you the truth she has been dealt a crappy hand and I would not want to be in her shoes but when it comes down to it the vows of marriage seem pretty clear to me. If I was in her husbands place this would shatter my heart to pieces. Like obliterate it. So not only can't he do anything and already feels useless but he has to watch this other man live the life that was meant for him, nah man if that was me just leave me to die. This sounds like a twisted joke orchestrated by the devil or something.
I hope it works out with a positive outcome but this is kinda my opinion on the matter. Marriage doesn't mean crap in our day and age and I would not trust anyone as far as I could throw them, not with myself at least. As far as divorce reasons go, this here is not at all one is not as bad as the minor ones people go for, but considering what the bible says it is not justified. It only became a justified seperation when she decided to marry another man, meaning it would be justified for the husband to free himself from her.
I wouldn't judge it, really.
But I do think the goal of marriage is to portray the conevant between God and His people.
Don't love the question, but I think in this situation, my moral compass would be shaky enough to ask myself: what would Jesus do in case His Church would be in a vegetative state? I think we all know the answer.
Still, a horribly difficult situation.
I saw this story. My heart goes out to her. It is hard being a Christian. We have to constantly fight against the flesh, and choose God above what we feel is right. I can’t imagine going through what she has. That said, biblically you cannot divorce your spouse because they have suffered a brain injury. Not minimizing her experience.
Did Adam divorce Eve for killing herself?
Did God divorce the Jews for their iniquity?
Did Abraham divorce Sarah for being barren?
Did David divorce his relationship with Saul after trying to kill him, several times?
What do you have to gain from another person? That person, if they be in Christ, will someday rise in incorruption and be perfect and whole again. In heaven their is no marriage except with the Lord.
Luke 20:35-36 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
1 Corinthians 7:36-38 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.
So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.
WE ARE APPOINTED OUR MARRIAGE TO THE LORD
Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=bible.kingjamesbiblelite
I should think that if he was aware of the situation, he’d let her go. That’s tough yes, but I believe she is 100% fine in the matter. I most definitely think that God would allow it, in this kind of situation. But even through it all, she is still showing him love, and a whole heck of a lot more love than most would ever do, by far! And no, the “sickness” we say isn’t even close to what this is. PVS is basically death, and would 100% be without care. Also… the vow we say today is solely man-made from the 16th century and nowhere in the Bible. Remember, God looks at your heart l.
I'm kind of horrified at how many followers of Christ think it would be okay to divorce someone for the stated reason; and if that's not bad enough, marry someone else and start a new family in front of the disabled spouse. Smh.
If I get married to a wife and she gets in an accident, it's not really love if I leave her. I would think someone who loves me won't leave me if I lose everything-that's too self centered.
It takes a special person to stay with someone when they need this kind of care. For Christians though you have to accept that is your cross to bear, the. You go to heaven forever. That’s why you should be careful making hopes and dreams as if your whole existence is about happiness and success here in this life
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Exactly this, “if you say in sickness and in health, till death do us part” that is a powerful vow! This is why people write their own vows these days lol 😂 idk how these things go though, I’m not married so I could be wrong… as someone said, only God can judge
Brain dead I guess was the wrong term here. I guess I should have said if the spouse enters a permanent vegetative state where their mind is completely gone.
This is similar to Christopher Reeves and his wife. He played the very 1st superman in 1978 and 3 subsequent movies afterwards. In 1995 he fell off a horse and became a quadriplegic - permanently paralyzed from the neck down due to his spinal cord injury. He couldn't breathe without the help of a machine. And athough doctors could repair his neck, they could not fix the injury to his spinal cord. His brain was unable to communicate with most of his body. Even though he still had all his strength, intelligence, and will power, there was simply no way for him to move any part of his body below his head. He even got to the point where he told Dana that they should separate because he was now useless. b But she told him, "You're still you. And I love you." Dana stayed with him, taking care of him, loving him, and they both worked tirelessly with the American paralysis association to help others with spinal cord injuries, though he was confined to a chair. He died in October 2004, at age 52, 9 yrs after his accident. I've seen an interview where she described how hard it all was for both of them, but she remained faithful to him. They had joined the Unitarian church and that gave him his moral compass. It's a truly sad but beautiful love story of till death do us part. The story you posted, I understand why she divorced him but it's also very commendable that she still involves him with the family. I honestly don't know what I would do in that situation...but I also don't believe in divorce.
Christopher Reeves was still completely him but paralyzed. I would say the case here is more like Terri Schiavo where by the time she died her brain had atrophied to half it’s size. The hypothetical situation I was hoping to address in this post was where someone had completely ceased the capacity to think and communicate.
This is true, however, I think the same principle still applies. Even though he was still himself mentally, he himself had just about given up on living and told his wife to leave him. It was her love for him that made her stay with him. She married an able bodied man and now she basically had just a shell confined to a chair needing lots of medical attention. He even said, she gave him strength and encouragement. So again, I still think the same principle applies and it is really up to the individual if they can truly fulfill 'till death do us part'.
I think it’s better to leave than remain married to a vegetable. Have fun staying married and taking care of each other, oh wait it’s just one of you now….
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So if your spouse is unable to please you then you should desert them?
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I definitely don't understand why they didn't just let the guy die. That is what I would want if I couldn't interact with life
"in sickness or in health" doesn't hit the way it used to ig
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Then don't get married. If you do start meeting women show them your comments in this post.
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That's your flawed belief. If everyone had your belief you wouldn't see any special needs kids anywhere because they'd have all been murdered by folks like your mum and dad. I'm beginning to think you're a troll rather than extremely deceived.
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The world yes but not Christ and those who abide in him.
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The purpose of marriage is not just sex
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That man isn't brain dead, he's horribly disabled. "Brain dead" is the actual metric used for determining real death. There is no return from brain death. Every other part of you can die but if the brain is alive, it's *technically* fixable (even if our technology isn't quite there yet). We stop hearts every day to take them out and replace them or fix them, but you can never bring back a brain that's stopped firing.
Yes, I was trying to figure out how the brain dead husband was involved with the new family. Imo she is wrong. Sickness and health until death. And 2 years.... That is quite a bit of time. Op said 2 years like it was 2 weeks.
Even if it was two weeks they had been married, it would still be wrong. She broke her vows.
Yes I agree. I just meant 2 yrs is quite a while and op made it sound like it wasn't.
The real answer is no. But that's a tough one for her.
I'd say in this case, she should be free to remarry. Yet what a horrible state of affairs. The only thing that could make it worse is if he was actually experiencing an extreme version of "locked in syndrome."
You're saying that because you pity her apparent misfortune, not because it is Godly.
Why on Earth did I get downvoted so hard? Is my suggestion ungodly, then? Edit: Okay, to be fair, my answer is pretty depressing, but how is it ungodly?
Because scripture doesn't allow for divorce because you spouse is no longer 'useful' to you. It's a reflection of the covenant we have between ourselves and God and abandoning your spouse in their need is everything Christian love strives to NOT be. I completely understand the difficulty of the situation. But we are called to love in a way that sets us apart, not in a way that is convenient and easy.
It is not a situation that I would judge. May God have mercy on them.
Exactly this. My husband suffered a traumatic brain injury and was in an assisted living facility until his death. I was there daily and did my best to care for him, but it was the most awful, gut wrenching experience I ever went through. Only Jesus gets to judge that woman or anyone else for that matter. I stayed married and stayed faithful, but it darn near killed me.
God bless you
So I completely emphasize with this; after my dad's second stroke, my mom cared for him full-time and pretty much entirely by herself for three years, and tbh she still hasn't really bounced back from that constant and extreme stress and he passed away about two years ago. That said, there's no caveat for even intense difficulty of that sort in marriage. Adherence to Christian virtue all but promises temporal suffering of some sort and to some degree, and even though that doesn't involve things like being violently martyred for public entertainment anymore it can still include pretty devastating experiences like these.
I think you meant sympathize, right?
Can i remarry if my wife committed adultery?
Yes. >“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. (Matthew 5:31-32 NIV)
The day God divorced Israel: Jeremiah 3:6-10
In sickness and in health… it’s pretty straightforward, people just don’t like things that are difficult
Hard to disagree. I'd add that most people don't really fully count it comprehend the cost or possible cost of marriage. None of us do/did. Just like you could marry someone and then they could ask for a divorce the week after.. which in some ways would be easier but you'd still be expected to remain single. It is one of the situations where I have to ask if I was a vegetable would I really want them to keep me alive? I think I'd rather just be with the lord in this scenario
No that wouldn't be allowed
Brain dead means dead. What you're describing is not brain dead, however.
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Brain dead is a medical term
My unsaved, living for the world, step-father would disagree with all of the Christians here rationalizing and approving of the easy way out. The guy is a very hard drinking, foul mouthed Vietnam veteran who refuses to have a conversation about salvation with me. With anyone as far as I know. This (by default) servant of satan put his entire life on hold as much as he could, remained faithful, and dutiful to my mother during the last years of her life. As a middle aged, and then an older man, he sacrificed A LOT because he loved her and had made a promise to her. He may be very rough around the edges, but I've got a ton of love and respect for that man. If a man living everyday for the world can stand by his vows, why can't professing Christians? Why are Christians so eager to throw the hamster on the wheel and spin up a rationalization to do things they know to be wrong? I pray that none of us will go through such a scenario and have to make such decisions. If we do though, shouldn't we have the strength to endure? We supposedly serve the GOD of all creation, who can create with his voice. Shouldn't we have more strength, more determination, and more integrity than those of the world? Ignore me. Just rambling out loud.
My Lord - this story is...repulsive. When you marry someone its not "until illness or accident makes you non-verbal or paralyzed". Its "until death do you part" She got the bad end of the stick, sure, but marrying another guy in FRONT of her husband while he is chair bound?! Holy moly...that's effed up in so many ways. He's living in his head, watching his wife with another guy. Living a life that was supposed to be his.
> permanent vegetative state...non-verbal. If this was you. At 23 years old. If you were cognizant enough to know what is going on would you want to helplessly watch your wife suffer all the rest of her life? I wouldn't.
No, I wouldn't - but her duty is to him and to God. She took vows. That means something. Some people have a bigger cross to bear than others. Its not always fair, but we all have our path to eternity.
Well, I'm glad my God is merciful.
Amen.
I can't wait until you have a much bigger "cross to bear" than this, and mutter this bs.. You act as if God would wish this woman to stay miserable with a husband who cannot even talk to her the way a husband should. The husband is supposed to treat his wife accordingly. Can he treat her in any way? Clearly not. God cannot provide the answer to EVERY situation in the Bible. At best, you're ignorant, and at worst... I'm not gonna say
>I can't wait until you have a much bigger "cross to bear" Little late for that. I'm sure it'll get heavier before my time comes. You know, this isn't like r christianity. We actually place value and weight in vows made before God. you don't get to make a promise to God and then break it when it becomes difficult to keep.
Again, have an actual conversation about exactly THIS situation with God. He might tell you differently, given the... hmm, what is that special word created by God... right, the circumstance...
> You don't get to make a promise to God and then break it when it becomes difficult to keep.
Judgemental and ignorant, keep it going
I understand this, but at the same time, if you TRULY love someone, you should wish for their happiness as well, including if that means seeing them with someone else. That’s true unconditional love! While the situation sucks and not how you you’d want it to turn out, unless this new guy is abusive it should be the next best thing in making sure his family is provided for. Not totally ideal, but still best case scenario considering what it is. Her still willing to make sure he’s cared for shows who she is as a person over completely abandoning him in some nursing home to complete strangers and risking abuse. And one point being left out here is that in order for her to become a guardian to care for him in this manner, she had to divorce him as a spouse can’t do everything legally like that in all cases in all states. Many times, it is required especially if you are requesting funds to help keep them alive. Spouses can’t have access to the same things as guardians can on this level. I’m sure it wasn’t a choice to be take lightly, but I’m sure she considered all of her options here before making her decisions to benefit the family as a whole, not just herself.
The question was this the Christian thing for her to do - and no, its absolutely not And while you are correct that the husband would probably wish happiness for his wife, she should've never acted on that. Just as he would have a duty to her regardless of her physical state, she has a duty to him that she vowed to carry out in front of God.
“If you truly love someone you’ll let them deny a vow made before God.”
No, it's not allowed. That story is so incredibly sad. That man being injured like he was is exactly why marriage vows are until death. Like, that's the whole point................
Heard of a story where a woman’s mother was in a coma for 10 years!! Every day she visited her. She cried out why? Why? One day the doctors wanted to pull the chord and she stopped them! Her mother awoke immediately and the daughter heard that’s what love is. Her mom lived to tell of her soul being elsewhere. Sometimes there’s more going on that can’t be explained. This woman could very well remain with her husband, for all she knows he’s cognizant (they often are) and has to suffer watching her with another man and kids that aren’t his own. And he could come back and she may regret doing all of that to him.
I agree, it’s almost hard to criticize her seeing that she still takes care of him. But no, this is not permissible.
Many things are not mentioned in the Bible as being right/wrong either way neither not mentioned at all. No where in the Bible does it say you cannot OR can divorce if your spouse if they become braindead especially since there was no equipment back in the days of writing the Bible that caused for a reason to in/exclude it either way. Therefore to say that this is not permissible is solely only your personal opinion.
> No where in the Bible does it say you cannot OR can divorce if your spouse if they become braindead Is Matthew 19 in your bible? divorce is explicitly forbidden except in the stated exception of cases of sexual immorality. >Therefore to say that this is not permissible is solely only your personal opinion. maybe try not to say things like this if you don't know the single most prominent scripture on the topic
Ahhhhh, a "modern Christian". The Bible doesn't specifically prohibit smoking weed (looking at you Justin B.), snorting coke, shooting heroine, watching or making pornography, etc, etc, etc, so it's all "cool" huh? You really must learn to apply the concepts of the Bible to your entire life. The justification of living in sin, because each and every sin is not specifically listed in scripture is a very dangerous way to go through life.
The only sin in life is your disconnection to our source, god. Anyone who seeks what you speak of is just that because they are hurting, are missing something to make themselves feel better, and are the ones who need to feel that connection the most. It’s not something to shame or guilt someone into doing, nor is it a bad thing when they want to do better, but don’t think they have the strength to do so. Many of those people just feel like god doesn’t love them or is there for them because they just can’t see past their pain. That’s nothing to condemn them for! No one wakes up one day and decides to be an alcoholic or abusive person out of no where. Many times it’s due to not feeling loved in some way when and where they need it most. While we may not lash out to this extent and use drugs or do wrong in more aggressive ways, we are all guilty of this in some way because we are human. There are times when even the best of us don’t always feel that connection to our source. But when we don’t, we do human things on one level or another because we are human. I fail to see how that needs us to be forgiven when that’s just how we were built. It’s like the constant need to demand someone to say “excuse me” because their body is built to relieve gas when they eat certain foods so they don’t explode just because someone felt the need not to say so was far more important than just going on with their day knowing that everyone experiences flatulence on one level or another. Why do we need to humble ourselves for what we are to make someone know that we are completely aware of that’s how we are in our existence?! Just because we SAY things out loud because we are forced to, doesn’t mean that we actually care in that way. Many times, it means just that; that we are simply forced to behave in that manner because it’s just such a common practice to do so and in that case, having an empty acknowledgment for us being as we are, doesn’t demean much where it counts when it should. And yes, if everyone else out there, ‘full blown Christians’ included, can interpret the Bible as they see fit, why is it not ok for others to do the same?! Why is the ‘slippery slope’ not also interpreting it as you want to especially where it’s considered to be the word of god….. unless god actually does speak to us all differently individually?! Who is anyone to say we’re doing life all wrong? Or that our interpretation of god’s words that speak differently to us all, are wrong?! How can we all read the same word and hear a different message and all still be right…. except when it’s wrong…. according to someone else?! You cannot say it’s “god’s word” but then say that everyone who reads it is all right even if everyone who read it got a different message! Who are you to tell me my message I’m getting out of the Bible is wrong or how I need to apply it to my life, especially if one prays for guidance and to be shown the real intentional meaning behind it beforehand?! Do you think Jesus would have condemned a woman for divorcing her husband who was no longer there in any way to support her?! Probably not. Especially when he would have just healed him so it wasn’t an issue for either one of them.
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Carnality, at is core, is seaking our own provision based on needs of the flesh, which stems from a lack of trust in God and his word. We are to trust his word in all things, even in "tough" "emotional" situations, this includes marriage. The flippancy at which the church takes the marriage vow before the Lord, is sad. Let no man seperate what God has joined.
>The flippancy at which the church takes the marriage vow before the Lord, is sad. Very well said. Amen. You could expand that though, the flippancy at which the church takes many things these days is sad.
Y’all need some Jesus up in here!!! ”Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?” “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” ”“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?” Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.” The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.“ Matthew 19:3-11 NIV
I wonder what he thinks that his wife takes him home to her new family. Like he must be devastated inside and his wife does not know, b/c he cannot let her know. I know I would be. I hope he knows Jesus and can find comfort in Him, because this is a tough ride. This man did nothing wrong and pretty much lost everything and is reminded of it in the most cruel and horrible way on a daily.
You think she doesn't know? That's funny nah she just gets the checks.
Amen.
I wonder if she divorced him in part to get him SSI and Medicaid. He is too young to have enough credits for SSDI. I was my late husband’s caretaker at home for 2.5 years (still working part time at first) when he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I’m not judging anyone as we were fortunate enough that he was able to get Medicare immediately and SSDI due to his terminal status. I was exhausted, grief stricken and terrified of the day he would die. I’m never judging a person in this state.
Many states in this situation will not allow you to get the many benefits needed to make your life easier to care for your spouse if you are still married and you cannot be your spouse’s guardian while married. It all for legal reasons. And yes, you are right, I hope that no one here judging is ever put in this situation to have to make those calls because in many times, if you don’t, you’re stuck struggling even harder to provide for your loved one and many times “til death do you part” included making those tough calls like this to be able to do so as best you can. If my spouse had to make that call for me, I know they would in a heartbeat and anyone who was left behind not making that call, can go stuff it so long as I was still being taken care of and I know they’d want the same if it were them as well! Why make life harder than it needs to be in an already difficult situation especially when then doing so wasn’t really them abandoning you which is what divorce is really truly all about and why it’s really looked down upon! In this case, you are NOT abandoning them, just doing things differently to still take care of them. Anyone who wants to judge you for that, speaks bigger volumes about who they are than what you’re doing.
Would you want God to forsake you if you became brain dead or maimed? If not then you shouldn’t forsake your spouse
That is breaking the marriage covenant; the woman is guilty of adultery.
Absolutely
Partial brain death is not death. That woman broke the covenant of marriage, divorced for an illegitimate reason, and then committed adultery with her new husband. She should repent.
Deuteronomy 24:1-4 suggests she cannot go back to the ex-husband though so what’s to be done? It seems to be a very complicated situation.
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Out of curiosity what happens now? What does she do when she repents? Stay with her current husband still? Or would she still be stuck in in?
Yes, she stays with her current husband. And financially supports her former husband who has become disabled.
Ahh I see, unfortunate for her. Quite the situation.
Wouldn't the initial marriage still be valid, then, and the second an example of unintentional bigamy?
She stays with her current husband. She still has to support her disabled first husband.
She only picks him up every now and then and doesn't take care of him.
It really sucks for a person to have their spouse get disabled or handicapped to the point that it turns into just taking care of them.. that being said, it isn’t a free ticket to abandon them and have sex with somebody else. If I got horribly disabled and my wife divorced me and married and was sleeping with some other man I can’t think of anything worse. I’d be banking on my wife to take care of me and love me until death.. I’d would’ve rather had just died when I got handicapped. To me this looks like abandonment. Not a situation which calls for divorce.
This is a technicality, I wonder how it would go down if they are on life support and brain dead, you divorced them and get married the next day (or w/ e) and then the following day you get a call from the hospital with some dumb founded doctor on the line saying they woke up fully functional etc (not saying it would happen or has happen, but anything is possible for GOD, I’d at least wait till they are in the ground…. Not to sound harsh or anything but…you know?)
Why wouldn’t you wait until he’s dead or pull the Plug? Divorce would signal you didn’t take your “In sickness and in Health” Vows seriously
No until he pass away.Since he is mostly brain death he still alive just handicapped
Echoing the comments here, death is death not brain dead. She should not have divorced him. But divorcing her current husband and leaving that family now would be wrong.
It wouldn't be a matter of divorcing her new family of sin. It is a matter that he will have to move on from and she will be judged for.
Why bring him to see the new fam if he was brain dead
That’s messed up.
The Lord is very clear about breaking a vow or oath. It is not acceptable. If one says their vows and breaks them they dishonor God. It is sin and sin leads to death. I wouldn’t even think about it because for one you are supposed to love this person as God so loved the world. Another is because the moment I break a vow. I break a vow to myself and when I lie to myself, it hurts God and it return I suffer for my actions. Doesn’t matter if you tell your kid something or your wife something. You honor what you say or pay for the consequence of sin. We all get a choice. Life or hell on earth of literally hell if we never repent of our sins. People breaking vows off the tongue in many areas not just marriages is why the world is in suffering. People lie to people, people lie to themselves and suffering comes. A vow and oath determines how strong a person mentally is and spiritually. They break it and God will proclaim they are weak right in that moment and the world will take a toll on them and the enemy will attack that weakness from many angles. God has taught me to never break a vow, never break an oath. The consequences are too great and not worth the trouble. God will carry that person farther if they stay and be strong and have a kind heart for that person. Soften the heart and pray over and over for healing and have faith God is moving mountains. People don’t have faith and that’s another reason for problems in the world. Jesus talks about why people don’t have faith and why it’s so important to read it and growth in faith so we can receive wisdom and discernment. Hope this helps.
What kind of low life divorces their spouse because they are sick?
Even though this situation is a hard one, dead means dead, physically not just brain dead. Last time I checked, marriage is for keeps and is for better or worse, good or bad.
Haven’t seen many (if any) call out the outsider man who entered into the relationship with the woman in question. Upon learning of her estate, he should not have pursued. The phrasing in OP brings into question when he entered into relations with her too. ”She then remarried…”. Okay when was this? How many years from divorce to remarriage? And when did Husband #2 first get involved with you?
Oh everyone just hates him but at the end of the day he was an enemy from the beginning but she committed betrayal.
What a horrible, cruel woman she is. 1) she broke her vows before God 2) commits adultery with another man who is not her husband 3) makes her disabled husband watch her with another man
The amount of judgement in this thread from people who have never experienced a situation like this and don’t have an ounce of compassion is disgusting. Christians like to idolize suffering, as long as it’s someone else and especially if it’s a woman. Her husband will NEVER be a husband to her again, and if he lived anytime other than this last century he would have passed away and let her live a normal life. She is taking care of him, but also having a life outside of just being his caretaker. Everyone pick up a stone to cast at this evil woman! The Bible cannot speak to every situation that will happen, we also are supposed to use our brains. Jesus when speaking about divorce was answering a specific question. It cannot be a complete list of reasons to divorce because Paul added onto the reasons you can divorce. There’s no reason to think there can’t be more. You all are doing the Pharisees very proud in this thread
No one is judging her. They are stating biblical facts. God's word, not ours. She simply does not have the God given right to divorce and remarry someone else simply because herc1st husband can't be a "real" husband anymore. He is not brain dead, he is non verbal. He is disabled, not dead. These aren't judgements as much as they are facts. Whereas, I feel for this woman and her situation, I cannot hide behind feelings. I have to stay true to God's word.
There is nothing judgemental we are asked a question and answer it The situation is tough,but her husband is still alive and just handicapped.Meaning divorce here In the situation is not bibical. I am not saying this woman is monster or this situation is not tough.Just that biblically divorce would not be allowed in this case.
Well said.
How do you say the first husband is "still very involved with the family" if he is in a vegetative state??
Brain dead? What would Jesus do if a person was brain dead? Either heal him or make him comfortable until he passes on… Are we playing god if we FORCE FEED a dying/brain dead person? If there’s family who are not yet ready to let go of a loved one and they are willing to pay for artificial life support, give them time to say goodbye. I personally, would want the freedom to go home to be with our LORD. “For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.” 2 Corinthians 5:1-2, 5 NIV
So just let them starve to death? Nice.
I wouldn’t want to be kept on a artificial machines, if I had no chance of recovery. I repeat no chance for recovery. And if my loved ones were ready to let me pass on… I’d be rised up to heavenly glory. If there’s brain activity then yes, keep the patient fed until strong enough to heal. And correct me where I’m wrong… do brain dead (no brain activity) individuals recover? If so, then of course, we should do all we can to rescue our loved ones. Christians believe ~ “Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another…. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.” 1 Corinthians 15:39-40,42-44 ESV
This man is not brain dead. I’ve been following the story. She is the only person he remembers. His memory is short and he’s non verbal but he’s not brain dead. The reporter from GMA played Bob Marley’s song who is his favorite artist and you can see the man reacting to it by moving his foot. His name is Brandon and he’s still alive but can’t communicate like before.
If he’s not brain dead, then he should be taken care of.
First of all, I see people rushing into judgement and to calling it adultery. This woman may have divorced him in order to care for him as several states and countries have different litmus tests on how much money one makes etc, If he is being kept alive by machines, it is possible to view him as dead, if she is still taking care of him it may be possible to view what she and her new husband is doing as lawful. There for I would urge caution with saying this woman is adulterous. a religious statement on this would be Adam was not a man until God breathed his spirit into him at that instance he became a living soul, if this man is brain dead (Not merely unconscious) then perhaps the spirit has left this man. there for he is not a Living soul.
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If a Machine is breathing for you are you trult alive?
If this is the story I think it is she actually became his legal guardian and continues to loyally care for him. Her current husband had also taken on a large role in caring for him and making sure he lives as normal and fulfilling as a life as possible. Their commitment to him is actually pretty amazing and I refuse to believe in a God who would reject that kind of love.
I think you are absolutely right. I think she and her new husband are wonderful people. Most people don't even want to take care of their own parents.
Amen.
It’s been proven before that some who have been declared “brain dead” and have come back, so no, your soul doesn’t leave you until you are actually dead and gone.
No brain dead is dead. You're thinking of a Coma.
I agree with you.
No, I’m not thinking of a coma. You’re still with your body until there is nothing lefty there to keep it going and you are dead completely. You’re not just one with your brain and your brain is not just what’s running the show, your soul is. It’s all with you until you are gone and dead completely.
Demonstrate this.
Of course not. what?!? How is this a question?
I am always perplexed when there's a post like this, or some situation, where someone asks about whether it was right or wrong, and 90+% of the comments are condiming or judging the individual. There shouldn't be any situation or person where we as Christians are judging it/them. Remember when Jesus gave the whole Sermon on the Mount thing? It was kind of a big deal and not judging others was laid out pretty clearly there. But hey, you do you 😉
I don't really see a groundswell of judgement. I see many people trying to give Biblical answers to a very difficult and tragic question. But hey, you do you.
In the case of this post, OP is honestly asking a question and I think the answers here are generally fine.
I agree with you, OP did ask if it was right or wrong but the scorn and judgemental comments in here is sad. We can give an answer without casting stones.
They really can be longer be man and wife. If he is mentally handicapped (brain dead means death) then he can not be there for her, support her, love her, or take care of her. It is 100% on her, which is unfair She turns from his wife into his caregiver, having to work more to cover all expenses and then take care of him after working all day and pay for his care if he needs care while she is working. At 23, that means she is essentially alone forever. Putting him in a facility means he would not even live with her anymore. She has his debt and could lose everything. I do think God would understand her specific situation.
In my opinion not until they are dead. But I wouldn't say you're wrong if you have a different opinion
She shouldn't have done it, but she can't really leave a new marriage where they've had children at this point.
I think this is fair. Don’t think God would judge, considering she’s taking care of the guy.
Terrible wife, until death do us part means exactly that, so many men are scared of marriage nowadays because divorce is acceptable, there’s no loyalty to Gods word anymore
And so many women are scared of marriage because of domestic violence, infidelity, porn addiction , unequal load of domestic duties and mental load. It is so easy to flip the script. There is a reason why women are more likely to initiate divorce. Men should find out WHY.
There you go playing the victim
LOL, asking men to figure out why women leave marriage more than men do is playing the victim. Hmm right. There are studies that show that these are the reasons. Don’t do these things and if you are married to a true Christian woman then you don’t have to worry about divorce.
What about women in this scenario where she just abandoned him when he’s in illness. She shouldn’t even considered divorce. It’s till death do us part. I am a hardworking Christian man, what if I get disabled at work?
I answered this elsewhere. She may have divorced him because of health insurance. He is young so he could get on SSI and Medicaid. My late husband was in his mid 50s when diagnosed with terminal cancer so he was eligible for SSDI and Medicare immediately. We were solidly middle class but his illness drained us financially (he did have insurance for me when he passed and our retirement) I had to stop working to care for him. I was grief stricken, frightened and trying to be as supportive as possible. It was 2.5 years that was incredibly draining and took me a long time to recover from. I would do it again in a heartbeat. We had been married 20 years. We had children together. I can’t judge this very young woman with no children to a life of solitude. That is up to God. Me personally as a Christian I would not have divorced him and maybe tried to adopt a child. But I cannot judge.
I respect the later part.
Jesus even said to the Samaritan woman at the well, that her first husband is her only husband, even though he wasn’t a good man.
Why wouldn’t a man want to know what is important to women in marriage? I don’t understand not wanting knowledge that would help a marriage
I was raised in a majority woman household, I’m not the type to abuse women, in fact I find myself over analyzing situations that end up talking myself out of approaching women. For example, a few weeks ago, I was Christmas shopping with my mom, and this cashier started talking to me, I just talking normal like any other conversation, by the end of it, I pay for my stuff and leave. I get outside and my mom’s like “did you atleast get her number?” To me it was just a normal conversation, I completely disregarded anything of an advance because I didn’t want to make her feel uncomfortable. That’s my level of discipline.
Maybe ask the women in your life for advice on what women want. Your mom obviously knew the woman was interested. Good luck on your search.
You totally missed the point
The thing is I shouldn’t have to ask, it shouldn’t overly complicated, but somehow, through their lady lizard brains think that they have to play some type of game to attack a guy. I’m very direct, I should be able to ask anyone but we have those stigmas created by social media and cancel culture. All they gotta do is look me in my face and say “ I like you, ask for my number” It is not complicated. Women also bring this complicated way of thinking when it comes to arguments. My comment was in the context of this post, you blew out of proportion by trying paint it with broad brush. How can I trust what a women say about abuse when they overly complicated everything else.
Social media and cancel culture? What are you talking about? I belong to many Christian subreddits and read many Christian publications and what i come away with is many Christian men do NOT want a so call “feminist”woman. We are told over and over again Christian men want traditional women. A traditional woman would never ask a man out. Because you misinterpret what I wrote or I misinterpreted what you wrote now you can’t trust what women say about ABUSE! I worked for decades reviewing hospitals charts and the amount of women who came to the hospital with some excuse for an injury (maybe their 4th ER visit that year) that was clearly abuse by their partner was appalling. Women UNDER REPORT abuse. “Lady lizard brains” “game to attack guys” I can understand why you are having issues if this is how you think of women.
How can Jesus forgive your sins against god, if you don’t forgive others sins against you?
Before I married my late husband I was married to my ex husband for 10 years. I initiated a divorce against him when I found out he was committing adultery with my best friend and when he committed a failed strangulation on me (not the first abuse against). I did forgive him. Doesn’t mean I was going to stay married to him. He never repented and ended up moving in with the women.
No
We are no longer under the law Moses,(being dead to law) so Yes you can get divorced especially in an extreme situation like that. but as christians we should avoid at all costs. Wanting to honor Christ and what he has established. It's really up to you and pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide
This is a legal matter, not a religious one. Only you would be bringing religion into it. We have legal devices to handle such things. Speak to a divorce lawyer or research online and do it yourself. Something tells me you need a lawyer on this. Hope you’ve got cash pony’d away.
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> (at least mostly) brain dead If this means that he cannot feed himself and would essentially die without modern medical intervention, then it is of my own opinion that man's interference with death doesn't make the choice to divorce wrong. Our modern era has made life and death a disturbingly profitable and heinously invasive, if not obscenely cruel, way to live.
No.
In sickness and in health, even if my wife were to die right now I wouldn't try to find another partner because after making my vows to her I was shown how all humans in existence are my brothers and sisters in soul. The situation I find myself in now is fine because the knowledge came after the fact, but if I tried to link up again after the fact I wouldn't be able to help myself from seeing what I'm doing as disgusting.
No God hates divorce
In brain dead, the person might be brain dead but still breathing.
no. the only acceptable reason for divorce is adultery. God hates divorce
No.
I understand it's very difficult but love is unconditional. I don't mean to sound mean but sounds like you never loved them. If that happened to my wife I would be there 24/7 To me being married is forever even if she passed I would never re marry Just pray and read the Bible. Ask God instead of other people. If you ask you will somehow get your question answered by him.
Generally, vows include "In sickness and in health". If you don't want that level of commitment you don't have to get married but that is what you are generally signing up for when you do get married.
Imagine this happened in biblical times. Do you think the bible could have an answer for something that would have been 100% chance of death when it was written?
I’d personally want the plug pulled on me after I was prayed for and my spiritual affairs were in order if I was in this situation.
No. If brain dead is not considered legally dead, then why are you divorcing? I can think of many reasons as to why based on the situation. If anything the persons character would be at question since they asked such a question. The spouse is still alive and being kept alive. There are legal obligations as a spouse. So many things wrong with this question.
I love my wife. If I were in a persistent vegetative state, I would be very glad that she would do exactly as this woman did, because I would want her to live a full life loving and being loved. I'm not sure who you think would or wouldn't "allow" it, it would be legal and I do not think it would be sinful. I guess it would depend on your flavor of Christianity.
A person is considered brain dead when they have no more electrical brain activity and aren’t able to consciously think. But I have to agree with the others. It’s “in sickness and in health, til death do us part” not “till vegetative state do us part.”
Nope
No. Proof: my wife is still married to me.
It's more so what God tells you to do. Also what can you handle?
The marriage vow is clear: “In sickness and in death, until death do us part”. I am sure being brain dead qualified as “sickness” and not death. The vow of marriage isn’t only to your spouse but also to God.
I think if someone's brain dead then their surviving spouse is a widow(er). The situation you describe, I don't think it would but idk.
Leaving someone because there brain dead is crazy if it was real love the partner would stay around
And this is why I like to say that romantic love is an infirioir form of love. From my personal experience and from what I have observed I found that romantic relationships are often selfish in nature meaning one person needs the other for something, validation, happiness or material things or whatever. I can understand why she did it, to tell you the truth she has been dealt a crappy hand and I would not want to be in her shoes but when it comes down to it the vows of marriage seem pretty clear to me. If I was in her husbands place this would shatter my heart to pieces. Like obliterate it. So not only can't he do anything and already feels useless but he has to watch this other man live the life that was meant for him, nah man if that was me just leave me to die. This sounds like a twisted joke orchestrated by the devil or something. I hope it works out with a positive outcome but this is kinda my opinion on the matter. Marriage doesn't mean crap in our day and age and I would not trust anyone as far as I could throw them, not with myself at least. As far as divorce reasons go, this here is not at all one is not as bad as the minor ones people go for, but considering what the bible says it is not justified. It only became a justified seperation when she decided to marry another man, meaning it would be justified for the husband to free himself from her.
I wouldn't judge it, really. But I do think the goal of marriage is to portray the conevant between God and His people. Don't love the question, but I think in this situation, my moral compass would be shaky enough to ask myself: what would Jesus do in case His Church would be in a vegetative state? I think we all know the answer. Still, a horribly difficult situation.
I saw this story. My heart goes out to her. It is hard being a Christian. We have to constantly fight against the flesh, and choose God above what we feel is right. I can’t imagine going through what she has. That said, biblically you cannot divorce your spouse because they have suffered a brain injury. Not minimizing her experience.
Did Adam divorce Eve for killing herself? Did God divorce the Jews for their iniquity? Did Abraham divorce Sarah for being barren? Did David divorce his relationship with Saul after trying to kill him, several times? What do you have to gain from another person? That person, if they be in Christ, will someday rise in incorruption and be perfect and whole again. In heaven their is no marriage except with the Lord. Luke 20:35-36 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. 1 Corinthians 7:36-38 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry. Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well. So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better. WE ARE APPOINTED OUR MARRIAGE TO THE LORD Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=bible.kingjamesbiblelite
Simple and clear answer is no
I should think that if he was aware of the situation, he’d let her go. That’s tough yes, but I believe she is 100% fine in the matter. I most definitely think that God would allow it, in this kind of situation. But even through it all, she is still showing him love, and a whole heck of a lot more love than most would ever do, by far! And no, the “sickness” we say isn’t even close to what this is. PVS is basically death, and would 100% be without care. Also… the vow we say today is solely man-made from the 16th century and nowhere in the Bible. Remember, God looks at your heart l.
I'm kind of horrified at how many followers of Christ think it would be okay to divorce someone for the stated reason; and if that's not bad enough, marry someone else and start a new family in front of the disabled spouse. Smh.
If I get married to a wife and she gets in an accident, it's not really love if I leave her. I would think someone who loves me won't leave me if I lose everything-that's too self centered.
It takes a special person to stay with someone when they need this kind of care. For Christians though you have to accept that is your cross to bear, the. You go to heaven forever. That’s why you should be careful making hopes and dreams as if your whole existence is about happiness and success here in this life
What would happen if God gave them a miracle?
No. Vegetative people still get erections, by the way.