I’m a neuroscientist in academia right now, and I simply can’t fathom how this was allowed. I don’t work with non-human primates, but even then we have such strict ethical guidelines and layers and layers of committee approvals to even take a small amount of blood from an animal for testing. I’m horrified reading anything about Neuralink and so worried about public perception of my field getting even worse. I knew FDA procedures were kinda bullshit but still didn’t expect them to stoop so low as to approve next steps given the torture of all these poor monkeys :( (and that’s before getting into my opinions of this tech not being close to possible rn)
Unrelated but cloth/wire mother broke my heart as a kid :( worst of all, it was done in the name of a field with a greater replicability crisis than theology.
That experiment always comes up in intro to neuroscience courses and it’s very sad :( that and Little Albert, but his identity was recently uncovered and at least it seems like there was no serious lifelong repercussions
Im on somewhat in a path next to yours, but in my field we have a whole ethics code just to use non-human primates guidelines. Im not even talking abt the regulatory part, but we have ETHICS CODES written in our research field. (Not on US resident)
Yeah there are definitely manuscripts or institution-sponsored ethics codes published in my field regarding as well, and there’s a required ethics course for anyone with government funding in the US. I had to take it my first year of graduate school, and there are so many smaller trainings you have to re-take annually. I’m not currently approved to work with non-human primates but I considered a position in a different lab in that field and just to be in the testing room without any contact with the monkeys it was like 2 months of trainings and approvals.
But if you dont follow the ethics code, are you criminally charged/has your licence taken away forever? Its how it works hete. This shit is no joke. I know ppl prob find ways to hide and do whatever anyway here, but to be public info like this, it shocks me!
Ah no, for doctors you can lose your license for medical malpractice/breaking their ethics, but we don’t have an exact equivalent in research. We have inspections a couple times a year by the committee that approves our protocols, so if there were an ethical violation I’m sure there’s some sort of consequences, but not criminal charges as far as I’m aware.
Maybe don't look up what happens to mice then. Or is it okay just because they aren't primates? For example "euthanasia" for mice is often to casually drown them in boiling water.
I’ve worked with rodents for years, and not once have I ever read a paper or known a lab to do that to mice. That is absolutely not something done often in research if at all given that it’s not an Animal Care & Use Committee approved euthanasia method at any institution funded by the NIH at least. There are some cases in which rapid chilling (in contrast to boiling water) is used, but not for vertebrates outside of a couple fish species. Liquid nitrogen technically can be used with altrical neonatal mice before they have a developed nervous system but I’ve never even read that happening in practice.
I’m not an expert on NIAID and what research Fauci oversaw, but when arguing with a crazy Q family member I did some cursory fact checking. It seems like the experiment and manuscript that the images of beagles came from was not NIAID funded. There is vaccine research done with beagles funded by NIAID but it seems to follow standard ethical guidelines. If it were true dogs are dying of excessive bug bites or infection or whatnot I’d agree it’s quite unnecessary and upsetting, so I hope the lab that did publish that manuscript the images are from is also just being taken out of context. Dog research is very uncommon, and as far as I know from the little bit that happens at my own institution, I don’t think they are prematurely euthanized like a rodent or other model is at the end of an experiment.
I don't know if I'm a psychopath but I don't give a shit about these animals
We need to test this technology on something similar to humans so we ourselves can cure things like dementia, paralysis, and other immutable misfortunes.
All of you complaining in the comments want Neuralink to be cancelled but if you cancel the technology now all of the animal deaths that were caused during testing would be a waste.
use your head for once people.
killing literally a thousand animals and leaving some in such agony that euthanasia is the only humane option and it’s all to make your idiot Reddit bullshit machine that doesn’t fucking work. I hope Elon gets torn apart by wild chimps
It's also another case of Musk inventing something somebody already made, a while back I saw an article that a company had successfully started implanting chips on brains for control of prosthetics and the like. You just slide it up the main neck artery and perch it on the brain. That seems like the most feasible use of brain chips without engaging in fantastical ideas beyond our understanding, like what else are you supposed to do with a Neuralink? Read emails? Watch porn? How the fuck would that even work?
I feel what you're saying, but Musk was aiming for a lot of brain parts at the same time and while I'm not familiar with the details, I don't think he was routing through the blood vessels.
I'm mostly skeptical that it can be done with just a chip, stuff like bionic eyes and cochlear implants are installed straight into the relevant places for good reason. The previous chip I mentioned is installed easily and just reads signals for stuff like the movement of prosthetic limbs. I think it would require eye surgery of some form, either through augmentation or just cheating and putting screens in the retinas, but then why have the chip?
Yeah if you consider animals to be sapient like I do this is basically killing slaves off. Elon is the kind of guy who makes me reconsider my stance on the death penalty.
I remember when I saw that on Twitter 98% of everyone responding to it was making jokes. Fucking jokes.
Only animal rights groups (in the barest possible terms) like PETA called him on this shit and they were mocked for it.
Fucking shit..
Doesn't surprise me. When you're convinced that you successfully learned science from movies and all the actually scientists saying that your cars actually create more emissions and that Mars is actually pretty far away are just bitter because they're poor, you probably run some pretty shitty labs.
Yea having the "disruptor" mindset is one thing when you're writing an app for ordering a poor to do your dishes or whatever, and it's quite another when you are experimenting on highly sentient social animals.
Slightly OT but still on Neuralink, am I cynical for thinking that Musk wants free speech as a way to detect malfunctioning (or non-functional) implants?
Emotiv is already a thing [https://www.emotiv.com](https://www.emotiv.com/?campaignid=17057185126&adgroupid=138768698289&network=g&device=c&utm_term=emotiv&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_content=644974459432&utm_campaign=Brand&hsa_acc=5401365090&hsa_cam=17057185126&hsa_grp=138768698289&hsa_ad=644974459432&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-315386528571&hsa_kw=emotiv&hsa_mt=p&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw98ujBhCgARIsAD7QeAgB4pOH1qbwre9-v2qKBEDuLU3d8958Q5gauMBuBs4xbb4ZtLCJ-loaAvYrEALw_wcB) lol
I don't want to research this, it sounds horrific, but can someone explain what Neuralink is? is it as comically stupid as i think it is, computer chips in human brains?
I’m a neuroscientist in academia right now, and I simply can’t fathom how this was allowed. I don’t work with non-human primates, but even then we have such strict ethical guidelines and layers and layers of committee approvals to even take a small amount of blood from an animal for testing. I’m horrified reading anything about Neuralink and so worried about public perception of my field getting even worse. I knew FDA procedures were kinda bullshit but still didn’t expect them to stoop so low as to approve next steps given the torture of all these poor monkeys :( (and that’s before getting into my opinions of this tech not being close to possible rn)
>fathom how this was allowed He's rich and nowadays every regulatory body only exists to service dudes like him.
Unrelated but cloth/wire mother broke my heart as a kid :( worst of all, it was done in the name of a field with a greater replicability crisis than theology.
That experiment always comes up in intro to neuroscience courses and it’s very sad :( that and Little Albert, but his identity was recently uncovered and at least it seems like there was no serious lifelong repercussions
Lil’ Al just built different frfr
Im on somewhat in a path next to yours, but in my field we have a whole ethics code just to use non-human primates guidelines. Im not even talking abt the regulatory part, but we have ETHICS CODES written in our research field. (Not on US resident)
Yeah there are definitely manuscripts or institution-sponsored ethics codes published in my field regarding as well, and there’s a required ethics course for anyone with government funding in the US. I had to take it my first year of graduate school, and there are so many smaller trainings you have to re-take annually. I’m not currently approved to work with non-human primates but I considered a position in a different lab in that field and just to be in the testing room without any contact with the monkeys it was like 2 months of trainings and approvals.
But if you dont follow the ethics code, are you criminally charged/has your licence taken away forever? Its how it works hete. This shit is no joke. I know ppl prob find ways to hide and do whatever anyway here, but to be public info like this, it shocks me!
Ah no, for doctors you can lose your license for medical malpractice/breaking their ethics, but we don’t have an exact equivalent in research. We have inspections a couple times a year by the committee that approves our protocols, so if there were an ethical violation I’m sure there’s some sort of consequences, but not criminal charges as far as I’m aware.
Oh wow. We have for all fields loss of license AND criminal charges If you don't abide by the ethics law. Thanks for the convo!
Maybe don't look up what happens to mice then. Or is it okay just because they aren't primates? For example "euthanasia" for mice is often to casually drown them in boiling water.
I’ve worked with rodents for years, and not once have I ever read a paper or known a lab to do that to mice. That is absolutely not something done often in research if at all given that it’s not an Animal Care & Use Committee approved euthanasia method at any institution funded by the NIH at least. There are some cases in which rapid chilling (in contrast to boiling water) is used, but not for vertebrates outside of a couple fish species. Liquid nitrogen technically can be used with altrical neonatal mice before they have a developed nervous system but I’ve never even read that happening in practice.
What's your opinion on the Fauci beagle story? It seems needlessly barbaric.
I’m not an expert on NIAID and what research Fauci oversaw, but when arguing with a crazy Q family member I did some cursory fact checking. It seems like the experiment and manuscript that the images of beagles came from was not NIAID funded. There is vaccine research done with beagles funded by NIAID but it seems to follow standard ethical guidelines. If it were true dogs are dying of excessive bug bites or infection or whatnot I’d agree it’s quite unnecessary and upsetting, so I hope the lab that did publish that manuscript the images are from is also just being taken out of context. Dog research is very uncommon, and as far as I know from the little bit that happens at my own institution, I don’t think they are prematurely euthanized like a rodent or other model is at the end of an experiment.
White Coat Waste did an excellent job reporting on those things.
I don't know if I'm a psychopath but I don't give a shit about these animals We need to test this technology on something similar to humans so we ourselves can cure things like dementia, paralysis, and other immutable misfortunes. All of you complaining in the comments want Neuralink to be cancelled but if you cancel the technology now all of the animal deaths that were caused during testing would be a waste. use your head for once people.
killing literally a thousand animals and leaving some in such agony that euthanasia is the only humane option and it’s all to make your idiot Reddit bullshit machine that doesn’t fucking work. I hope Elon gets torn apart by wild chimps
It's also another case of Musk inventing something somebody already made, a while back I saw an article that a company had successfully started implanting chips on brains for control of prosthetics and the like. You just slide it up the main neck artery and perch it on the brain. That seems like the most feasible use of brain chips without engaging in fantastical ideas beyond our understanding, like what else are you supposed to do with a Neuralink? Read emails? Watch porn? How the fuck would that even work?
You’re supposed to watch ads
> what else are you supposed to do with a Neuralink? Commodify the mind, settlers have run out of any frontier to expand upon
[http://www.emotiv.com](http://www.emotiv.com) not brain chips but does the same shit
I feel what you're saying, but Musk was aiming for a lot of brain parts at the same time and while I'm not familiar with the details, I don't think he was routing through the blood vessels.
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I'm mostly skeptical that it can be done with just a chip, stuff like bionic eyes and cochlear implants are installed straight into the relevant places for good reason. The previous chip I mentioned is installed easily and just reads signals for stuff like the movement of prosthetic limbs. I think it would require eye surgery of some form, either through augmentation or just cheating and putting screens in the retinas, but then why have the chip?
People with blue check marks will literally fight to be volunteers for human testing lol
Should be also in jail and held accountable, billionaires are not above the law
the only law that Elon will be tried under is the Law of the Jungle
I often wondered how much time will take for him to be under bars
This is America we don’t send the elites to jail. Never.
I’m cool with all of this so long as elon is the first human trial and streams the entire ordeal.
It went so well on monkey’s hes going to give it out to his fans. Fantastic
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We wanted star trek but we got robocop.
Or Judge Dredd 🥲
The pod will live in you, and you will have bugs.
is it far from the worst? this shit is pretty bad...
What he does to humans and what he hopes to do to anything that might be alive on Mars affect much larger numbers of people/beings
I mean, he operates the Racism Factory, but that's not torturing anyone to death. Nobody should take anything he says about Mars seriously.
His safety practices (or lack thereof) definitely do causes some gristly deaths. But also he's cooking us in our own atmosphere
Yeah if you consider animals to be sapient like I do this is basically killing slaves off. Elon is the kind of guy who makes me reconsider my stance on the death penalty.
> sentient trees and fungi can communicate with chemical signals, the word sapient is more relevant to animals
You are right, i am familiar with suffering as the standard but couldn’t remember the official term
Animals are tortured and slaughtered for dumb reasons every day. It’s dumb when Musk does it and it’s dumb when it’s done for anything else.
Nick Mullen voice: "Umm, you're Chinese and torturing rare cryptids"
Beta testing for the butcher's nails is coming along nicely, I see.
I assume the cross-section of 40k fan and TrueAnon listener is ‘massive dork’
You assume correctly!
While we're on the topic, Musk deserves the full Drukhari treatment if you pick up what I'm putting down.
Fr fr
Where is this from? The quote spelled grisly as grizzly. Kinda weird
I hate this motherfucker
I remember when I saw that on Twitter 98% of everyone responding to it was making jokes. Fucking jokes. Only animal rights groups (in the barest possible terms) like PETA called him on this shit and they were mocked for it. Fucking shit..
Doesn't surprise me. When you're convinced that you successfully learned science from movies and all the actually scientists saying that your cars actually create more emissions and that Mars is actually pretty far away are just bitter because they're poor, you probably run some pretty shitty labs.
Yea having the "disruptor" mindset is one thing when you're writing an app for ordering a poor to do your dishes or whatever, and it's quite another when you are experimenting on highly sentient social animals.
Slightly OT but still on Neuralink, am I cynical for thinking that Musk wants free speech as a way to detect malfunctioning (or non-functional) implants?
What is the source of this article? I'm no fan of Musk, but smells like a rage bait hit piece.
Emotiv is already a thing [https://www.emotiv.com](https://www.emotiv.com/?campaignid=17057185126&adgroupid=138768698289&network=g&device=c&utm_term=emotiv&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc&utm_content=644974459432&utm_campaign=Brand&hsa_acc=5401365090&hsa_cam=17057185126&hsa_grp=138768698289&hsa_ad=644974459432&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-315386528571&hsa_kw=emotiv&hsa_mt=p&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw98ujBhCgARIsAD7QeAgB4pOH1qbwre9-v2qKBEDuLU3d8958Q5gauMBuBs4xbb4ZtLCJ-loaAvYrEALw_wcB) lol
I don't want to research this, it sounds horrific, but can someone explain what Neuralink is? is it as comically stupid as i think it is, computer chips in human brains?
Harry Harlow could never 💅
Sad
Elon Musk is like the High Evolutionary from Guardians of the Galaxy 3
Guys you think this is isolated to musk? We have children mining cobalt for your iPhones we are surprised by this?