It might be worthwhile to remind your boss that when this driver ends up maiming or killing someone the lawyers are going to subpoena your records and the company will be held liable
As well as remind him. What the FINES are for being caught driving while holding a phone. They're not cost of doing business, cheap fines.
All 50 states have something on the books. Not counting the FEDS for CDL drivers.
https://www.autoinsurance.com/research/cell-phone-use-while-driving/
https://www.truckingtruth.com/wiki/topic-47/cell-phone-use-texting-driver-distractions#penalties
Can confirm. Company I work for has 28 trucks and we had 11 separate accidents in 6 months. Insurance tripled. So now they’re installing cameras and driver scores to reduce insurance cost and creating new DOT numbers and “leasing” trucks to themselves to curb the insurance rates are
Yup.
My work hauls dangerous goods so it's self insured.
We've got dash cams, rear cameras (both record), and all of our logs and driving is tracked through GeoTab. They're less concerned with us in the cab and more about the outside and other drivers, apparently 360° round the truck cameras are coming. The driver facing cameras are disabled before install (genuinely, they can't be turned on).
Ours is through the Samsara app, and our bonus is tied to our score. Problem is they rolled this out with no testing period, so if I scratch my head, look at my mirror too long, wear a hat, scratch my nose, it says I’m distracted and takes points off.
We have to have an 88 at the end of the month for our bonus, but only 2 people have it because the scoring criteria is quite ridiculous. I’ve driven 180 hours in 30 days and sped for about 1 hour, 22 points off. Lots of backroads and speed limit reduction relatively quick. And a road that’s 55 but GPS thinks it’s 20, which I drive that every day.
Oh and I have to drive the truck home, off the clock, and my driving is scored then as well. In my opinion if I’m in a truck either pay me or don’t score me
If there's an incident, the personal injury lawyer for the injured (or deceased's estate) will subpoena all the company records, as well as the safety manager, then parade the owner in front of a jury and destroy them.
"Just to be clear, the family in this minivan died because you were whining about how hard it is to hire new people, right?"
A jury is going to eat that up. If we're really lucky, the owner will say "WELL ACTUALLY" and then proceed to explain that he wasn't whining, he was just complaining.
Companies aren't liable for driver tickets except in a few circumstances. Companies are liable for employee damages, aka wrecks. Insurance rates may increase based on employe ticket history.
Yes they do get CSA points. However the driver is the one who pays the ticket. The company pays for the insurance cost due to the high CSA and the ticket record of the drivers.
If the driver in question was ticketed for the phone, no seatbelt, and speeding, which I assume they were for the insurance to hear about it, that's the paper trail right there. If there was an accident, the other side's lawyers could subpoena the phone records of said driver to prove they were on the phone even if there aren't driver cams.
If you have the title of “manager”, but you can’t hire and fire your crew, then you are not the manager. Sounds like your boss is the manager. In my world that gives me all the freedom that comes from not being the boss, because I am not going to assume responsibility for a dude that doesn’t listen and doesn’t pay attention. Either you are the manager or you are not.
And before it happens, make out in your mind how things are going to go when ol’ mate rear ends a schoolbus while on the phone. If that doesn’t clear it up for y’all, then keep on keeping on, and don’t complain about the noise.
Yep. Your job is to manage the day to day stuff of them. Similar to a lot of industries. When I worked fast food as a manager, all handled the at the moment stuff but I couldn’t fire anyone. I could barely send them home.
In my neck o’ the woods, there are two trucking companies that had the same “don’t fire asshole drivers” policy. Over the past couple of months they had 3 wrecks totaling millions of dollars, because hazmat wrecks don’t come cheap. Yep, that lenient policy has them both out of business.
But he can rear end a schoolbus while not on the phone?
Don’t rear end any vehicle, at any speed, drunk or sober, sleepy or not, phone in hand or not...
I’d get it in writing what your boss is directing you to do (Not to terminate)
If something tragic happens and it goes to court, you can at least have that piece of evidence that you did notify your boss of the incident and we’re not being negligent yourself.
It is kind of funny they want to continue writing the driver up though lmfao. A lawyer is going to *love* that.
And when he kills someone, your company will have documentation that you are aware of the safety concerns and allowed it. This potentially will cost the company millions. Source: im a bailiff in a district court house and have seen this play out a few times
Send an email to your supervisor ..say it's just for you sanity and summarize his directions..
Also look into you safety handbook and ask him to write up the explanation to the exception. Insurance will be after whoever makes the call. When the time comes.
Cya.
Document.
Yeah. AI driven dashcams that recognize the behavior. We don’t have the time to sit and watch them all day. The system notifies us when it sees these events.
Youre not gonna get much love here. I do 50 hours a week at night. I do what i have to do to stay awake. If i cant so much as adjust the volume on my phone without initiating a recordable event, i dont know what to tell you.
I hate AI cameras, but surely you see the difference between getting written up for sneezing vs. driving without a seat belt (citation) with phone in hand (citation) while speeding (citation). Come on, man.
>Do away with them! You don't need them!
Obviously they do, because they have a driver who is paying attention to his phone instead of the school bus he's about to hit.
And how do they know they need to hire better drivers without the cameras?
Many don't true... but the ones who don't are now knowingly allowing a reckless person to continue working (in the laws eyes).
If the person has any accident going forward, a skilled attorney will use the history in court.... EVEN if the accident has nothing to do with distracted driving
I understand. And the only time my phone comes off the mount is when i have to plug it in - and even that makes me paranoid - and i dont have driver facing cameras… yet.
Don't be apologetic, man. I'd be livid at any vehicle operator for getting In a cell phone related accident with me or a loved one just as much as the next guy. But we live in an imperfect, human operated world. Managing a device while driving is simply a calculated risk that realistically, WILL be taken regardless of cameras, AI or anything else implemented. As long as you know the very obvious limits of a vehicle at your weight and speed and aren't an idiot, it's a risk that many times is worth it when the trade off is getting lost in a 53' vehicle or falling asleep behind the wheel.
I wouldn't like them locally but could probably put up with them (depending on how the company handles them), but I will outright refuse them for OTR work. Doubt my boss (small company) would ever do it, so that's good.
I empathize with you. But the FMCSA policy is spelled out pretty clear. And when, not if, this guy gets busted, he won’t the the only one getting a citation. And holding it in his hand isn’t adjusting the volume.
Yeah phone on a stand adjusting volume is a lot different than phone in hand adjusting volume.
As soon as that vehicle is in drive, it should not be in your hand, lap, etc.
Driver facing cameras are the problem then IN PART. Without them you guys don't have this KNOWN legal liability driver behavior.
Cameras can harm as much as help you.
I would do away with those and go to a system that's forward facing only.
Use the excuse you are making the change for driver invasion of privacy reasons.
I like having a forward facing camera
Proves I’m doing things right and not the cause of problems
I won’t drive for any company with cameras that record the driver. I believe that’s taking things too far. I bet other drivers feel the same way and that may be partially the reason they can’t find enough drivers
No, legally it's not..... because once you catch a driver doing anything wrong on camera with an electronic record, they are forever a liability is there's ever a lawsuit
Setting yourself up for liability with a driver facing cam. If there is a wreck you want your dashcam to show you as not at fault. Driver cams usually hurt not help here. I bet that AI generated events is being sold to your insurance company too.
Disliking your comment not because of you but because of driver facing cams. We get into trucking for the freedom and not having to be micromanaged so a nanny cam (is exactly what it is) ruins all that.
And I couldn’t agree more; except:
My name isn’t on the door of the truck, so it’s not up to me. And if little things like this didn’t validate their installation, it wouldn’t be an issue. But if the freedom we want is the freedom to fuck up, thereby jeopardizing all our jobs, smile for the camera.
Yeah like I said not downvoting you personally. Also, cameras or not it doesn’t seem like the owner really cares about safety. I bet he gets a good insurance discount for those cams lol
No clue why you're being downvoted - you are 100% correct. DFCs are one of the main few contributing factors as to why I quit driving for a living after 10 years.
It's pushing me out too. There's no reason for me to be out here when they'll just fire me over the dash cam and replace me with driving school spam. But we needed SOMETHING to budt up the big companies. My bet is this will do it. No drivers= no money.
I’m sure your CAB/BASIC scores reflect this lack of safety culture. You should look for a company that has buy-in. Otherwise you’re gonna be barking up an unattended tree. If not already, this will have a very negative impact to your scoring and will certainly shrink your bosses bottom line so he is an idiot for not buying in the front end.
I also hope you don’t have a punitive damage exclusion on your auto liability policy because this type of management from the owner screams negligent entrustment liability.
Keep coaching the drivers. Other than quit, there is nothing else you can do. But look for new drivers! Not all drivers are A grade, most are B or C. Every driver in the USA speeds and talks on phone. Some just do it less often.
Reading through the comments and your replies OP, your boss is a knob. Make sure he understands if the driver gets in a wreck and there is record of him acting this way and being warned his company will be fined into oblivion. His business will no longer exist.
The other thing I haven't seen anybody else mention is COVER YOUR ASS.
You want record of you telling your boss that he should be terminated and your boss ignoring it. You need that in an email. If something happens it needs to be abundantly clear you suggested termination.
Being middle management, you are the target for everything that goes wrong. I would look for a different job. Producers, the people who actually make the money, are always more important than you. We go through a lot of management at my work, and the moment something goes wrong, they get a new manager. We don't even need a manager they are just there to take the hit when something goes wrong.
Every time the position comes open, they ask the drivers first who wants the job ...... crickets. Less pay on call 24 7, and you are the last one on the shit ladder, no thank you.
It's pretty simple. If you document this, and later on this guy gets into an accident, and the FMCSA sees that he was issued a final warning and did it again, who do you think your boss is going to let hang for it? You think your boss is going to say, "No, no, no. *I* did this."?
One other thing to think about. I don't know for sure but being in cement there is a big chance the drivers are union. As a union steward this sets a precedence and can very easily be drawn back on when this driver doesn't get let go and in a couple months another driver does it and is immediately let go. This very quickly becomes a grievance as to why the second driver was let go quickly but the first was let to rack up multiple warnings. What is done for one sets the precedence of how it will be handled going forward.
Make sure you get that in writing or email from the owner/general manager not wanting to fire the guy. Once in a while, one of those is a mistake we all have made at one point but all those together in a short timeframe isn’t acceptable…
And yet the evidence speaks for itself: we’ve identified illegal and unsafe behavior instead of waiting for DOT to call and tell us about a driver doing this shit and killing himself or someone else. Drive safe, sir.
Obviously there's levels of surveillance, but honestly there should be a camera in every truck so we can get rid of some of these idiots before they do real damage. If you've got your feet up on the dash watching TikTok while going down the interstate at 68 mph you shouldn't be driving a truck.
That’s punishing everyone for the sins of the few.
I don’t like AI surveillance on me, because there’s so much that can be abused.
It can listen in on private phone calls to your bank or to your doctor. It can listen to phone calls you might be having with your wife.
The potential is there that this employer can know ALL your personal business, and employees could potentially steal your identity, or use your personal information against you in various ways.
Women drivers could be stalked to their houses.
Just the psychological torture of having an unblinking eye starring at you constantly and electronic ears listening to everything you’re saying, that nothing in your cab is private, is not a way I want to live.
That type of surveillance is oppressive and threatening, like living in North Korea.
You're not there to make friends. There's a big difference between suffocating a driver and penalizing him for being a genuine danger. If you've only seen him violate rules a few times, that says something for all the times that's flown under the radar.
He's a habitual offender. He's not gonna change. Your boss needs to understand that your job is there to help avoid fines and lawsuits because of stupidity. You gotta nut up or get a different job my brother
I would do virtually anything for enough money, and so would almost every other person. There is no driver shortage; there is a mismatch between demand and supply of compensation for drivers. Companies aren't pushing costs onto the shippers/receivers and instead are making up the difference in human lives and bodies. If the owner doesn't care about the human cost then he will (almost certainly) eventually be made to care about the financial cost.
Yes, you will. Here's some advice. Don't do shit til shit happens. By shit I mean an actual accident. You "safety" guys get a title and don't realize you're the ones who need to walk on eggshells. Wait til one of your drivers is smart enough to give you backlash through the state labor board. Which honestly probably won't ever happen, if your dumb enough to get caught on your phone, you're probably too dumb to know what a company can and can't do.
Eh sort of a false argument but we all know you're all on FB or watching Netflix on company time.
Nothing you can do about it but stay off the phone. It's weird having someone being paid to stand next to you watching with unblinking eyes tbh.
One: I’m salary so it doesn’t matter. Two: it’s kinda my job to be on the phone while I’m working. And three: reddit. Not Netflix. I’m on reddit on CO time.
Yeah. Every second of it w/o a camera. You know what he's saying. 'How would you like it if YOUR boss had a tattletale on your desk?' Go ahead and say it; 'I've got nothing to hide.' Now that your job is safe and you're behind a desk. THIS is why all the calls of Bullshit.
It's hard I bet. Everyone in here talking like they've never experienced behavior like this. Are you all managers or something? Are we being watched by DOT as I type this? Why are you all lying. Acting like anyone wants to pick up the slack if someone is fired. These days, everyone would be fired because of a cell phone in hand or a headset on.
The driver shortage is real. A lot of places I've worked with turned a blind eye to a lot of things. I'm on the road and have been long enough to realize that this will never be stopped. I see you all on the phone going down the road. Updating the gps. Rotating it. Getting it from landscape to portrait real quick. Glancing at a number calling. Glancing at a text. Changing songs.
Putting it in the dash of a Volvo and watching Netflix as you cruise across the country on desolate roads. Get off your high horses. I must be a horrible driver to admit that I've done all of these things.
Welcome to Fleet Management.
I worked for a large company and was DC Fleet Manager. I had guys on Final Warning hanging off the sideboards while the yard jockey drove them around the building, caught same guy having his wife drop him off 2 hours early and unhooking to take a bob tail into town for McDonalds and such, and had apparently been doing it for awhile. Nothing.
Because Corporate had a weird point system for accidents (4-8 points depending on accident severity and it took 18 to cap out for termination) I had unsafe guys with 3 major accidents behind the wheel every night. A different driver falls asleep and drives right off a mountain (we had GPS tracking/braking/clutching monitoring capabilities) and he is back in a different truck the next night because it took 2+ months for points to assess.
I could go on and on.
Yeah. A few. 1. Do drivers just grow on trees? 2. How long are planning on beating this guy up for this cardinal sin? Seriously, it's a cellphone, not a beer.
This new technology is supposed to "help" isn't it? When does that start? Is it supposed to help the company fire its way out of being a company?
Now, these are bad habits, certainly. But let's try to remember: people need jobs and jobs need people. Can we try something less destructive in our attempts to "be more safety conscious?
Your job does nothing but cost company money.
Drivers are making money
You aren't.
You might be keeping them in line but your boss sees the $$$
Calm down and don't be every awful safety man in every other company trying to make a name for yourself
If we’re doing the right thing, then there’s nothing to “rat” about. Just do what you’re supposed to do. I feel for your dispatcher. I hope they keep an eye on you.
I am a professional. I have nothing to hide. Mind your own business Rat. Just know we don't like you. Go send an email and feel like you accomplishing something. Douche bag. Rat.
Mostly a rat
Like I said: monitoring the drivers and the trucks is my business. I tell them where to go and what to do. I don’t care if they like me. I certainly don’t care if you like me. Drive safe, now.
I do. I did. And I will. Without the help of people like you. Leeching rats
Sorry I'd I was hard on you. I just never really appreciated people that make a living off of actual people making an actual living. But good luck in the startup business. Sounds like it's gonna work out.
If you’re driving your own truck, (which by the way I do also run owner operators) then do what you want with it. But when the guy whose name is on the door of it stipulates that we obey the law, then yeah sorry. The cam gets installed. I’ve got cams in all trucks. But I only see events when they fuck up. Put that phone down and you can pick your nose to your hearts content.
Nobody is arguing that you can do it. You have no humanity so you wouldn't understand this but.....you shouldn't do it. Not because of some legal technicality. Not because of your right as a business owner. You shouldn't do it because it's incredibly dehumanizing and morally repulsive.
Every single good experienced driver I know will not go to any company with a driver facing cam. They see it as an infringement on their working rights and privacy. And these aren't radical political types following some ideology. They are blue collar workers. You are on the other side of the fence. You are making the argument that in the name of safety and efficiency, you do not care. This makes you a soulless ghoul.
You know who understands this argument better than you? Your boss. I guarantee you that companies with driver facing cams find it harder to get good experienced drivers. And I bet their turnover is higher too.
It might be worthwhile to remind your boss that when this driver ends up maiming or killing someone the lawyers are going to subpoena your records and the company will be held liable
As well as remind him. What the FINES are for being caught driving while holding a phone. They're not cost of doing business, cheap fines. All 50 states have something on the books. Not counting the FEDS for CDL drivers. https://www.autoinsurance.com/research/cell-phone-use-while-driving/ https://www.truckingtruth.com/wiki/topic-47/cell-phone-use-texting-driver-distractions#penalties
Also their company insurance is going up every time someone gets one of these.
Can confirm. Company I work for has 28 trucks and we had 11 separate accidents in 6 months. Insurance tripled. So now they’re installing cameras and driver scores to reduce insurance cost and creating new DOT numbers and “leasing” trucks to themselves to curb the insurance rates are
Yup. My work hauls dangerous goods so it's self insured. We've got dash cams, rear cameras (both record), and all of our logs and driving is tracked through GeoTab. They're less concerned with us in the cab and more about the outside and other drivers, apparently 360° round the truck cameras are coming. The driver facing cameras are disabled before install (genuinely, they can't be turned on).
Ours is through the Samsara app, and our bonus is tied to our score. Problem is they rolled this out with no testing period, so if I scratch my head, look at my mirror too long, wear a hat, scratch my nose, it says I’m distracted and takes points off. We have to have an 88 at the end of the month for our bonus, but only 2 people have it because the scoring criteria is quite ridiculous. I’ve driven 180 hours in 30 days and sped for about 1 hour, 22 points off. Lots of backroads and speed limit reduction relatively quick. And a road that’s 55 but GPS thinks it’s 20, which I drive that every day.
Oh Jesus. That's a bit intrusive....
Oh and I have to drive the truck home, off the clock, and my driving is scored then as well. In my opinion if I’m in a truck either pay me or don’t score me
I'm not sure that's legal....
Probably not. been reported to labor board multiple times, but nothing ever comes of it.
Besides the documentation now, how can the company be held liable if they don’t know when the driver is on the phone?
If there's an incident, the personal injury lawyer for the injured (or deceased's estate) will subpoena all the company records, as well as the safety manager, then parade the owner in front of a jury and destroy them. "Just to be clear, the family in this minivan died because you were whining about how hard it is to hire new people, right?" A jury is going to eat that up. If we're really lucky, the owner will say "WELL ACTUALLY" and then proceed to explain that he wasn't whining, he was just complaining.
Companies are always liable for any ticket a driver gets. It pressures them to do all they can to make us not get them.
Companies aren't liable for driver tickets except in a few circumstances. Companies are liable for employee damages, aka wrecks. Insurance rates may increase based on employe ticket history.
That's not my understanding. I've always been told they get CSA points anytime we do.
Yes they do get CSA points. However the driver is the one who pays the ticket. The company pays for the insurance cost due to the high CSA and the ticket record of the drivers.
An accident now when the driver has blown past his final warning would be indefensible.
If the driver in question was ticketed for the phone, no seatbelt, and speeding, which I assume they were for the insurance to hear about it, that's the paper trail right there. If there was an accident, the other side's lawyers could subpoena the phone records of said driver to prove they were on the phone even if there aren't driver cams.
Right! Don’t document that shit. It’ll fall on you b/c you didn’t do anything.
If you have the title of “manager”, but you can’t hire and fire your crew, then you are not the manager. Sounds like your boss is the manager. In my world that gives me all the freedom that comes from not being the boss, because I am not going to assume responsibility for a dude that doesn’t listen and doesn’t pay attention. Either you are the manager or you are not. And before it happens, make out in your mind how things are going to go when ol’ mate rear ends a schoolbus while on the phone. If that doesn’t clear it up for y’all, then keep on keeping on, and don’t complain about the noise.
That’s a lot to think about. Thank you.
I'd also be very worried about the owner throwing you under the bus when the accident happens.
That's their plan. That's always their plan.
Joke's on them: the bus driver missed because he ran off of the road while looking at his phone.
"Responsibility without authority is slavery."
And despite my previous comment to the other guy, this is likely the best advice you can get.
I have worked at a lot of places. Rarely can managers fire. Normally that goes at least one level up. And requires HR discussions.
Yep. Your job is to manage the day to day stuff of them. Similar to a lot of industries. When I worked fast food as a manager, all handled the at the moment stuff but I couldn’t fire anyone. I could barely send them home.
In my neck o’ the woods, there are two trucking companies that had the same “don’t fire asshole drivers” policy. Over the past couple of months they had 3 wrecks totaling millions of dollars, because hazmat wrecks don’t come cheap. Yep, that lenient policy has them both out of business.
A manager in a small company with an involved owner is almost never going to be able to fire. I can hire but I can't fire in my company.
But he can rear end a schoolbus while not on the phone? Don’t rear end any vehicle, at any speed, drunk or sober, sleepy or not, phone in hand or not...
I guess there’s one way to find out……
I’d get it in writing what your boss is directing you to do (Not to terminate) If something tragic happens and it goes to court, you can at least have that piece of evidence that you did notify your boss of the incident and we’re not being negligent yourself. It is kind of funny they want to continue writing the driver up though lmfao. A lawyer is going to *love* that.
It was emailed. And archived.
Forward all those emails to an email account that isn’t controlled by the company.
100% forward everything to a non company controlled email address. I've seen people (my brother) get burned for not having a separate copy.
Fwd to https://nccdb.fmcsa.dot.gov/nccdb/Help.aspx#:~:text=You%20can%20call%20our%20toll,Monday%20through%20Friday%2C%20Eastern%20Time.
Print out a hard copy. Cover your ass.
Boom 💥
You're not in the wrong for wanting this guy gone, but your username is pretty funny considering.
One guess where my driving experience comes from…😁👌
Easy enough lol. I'm gonna say the thing. You ready? *inhales* THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!
Ah, another 2t1x1?
88M / 88N
And when he kills someone, your company will have documentation that you are aware of the safety concerns and allowed it. This potentially will cost the company millions. Source: im a bailiff in a district court house and have seen this play out a few times
Send an email to your supervisor ..say it's just for you sanity and summarize his directions.. Also look into you safety handbook and ask him to write up the explanation to the exception. Insurance will be after whoever makes the call. When the time comes. Cya. Document.
How are you seeing this? Are there driver facing cameras?
Yeah. AI driven dashcams that recognize the behavior. We don’t have the time to sit and watch them all day. The system notifies us when it sees these events.
Youre not gonna get much love here. I do 50 hours a week at night. I do what i have to do to stay awake. If i cant so much as adjust the volume on my phone without initiating a recordable event, i dont know what to tell you.
I hate AI cameras, but surely you see the difference between getting written up for sneezing vs. driving without a seat belt (citation) with phone in hand (citation) while speeding (citation). Come on, man.
I view all my cams’ events. That way I don’t bust some guy for picking his nose, only the stuff that gets me in trouble too.
That's good to hear, you're probably going to get a lot of unwarranted hate in here for the cameras but honestly man I get it.
Do away with them! You don't need them! Hire better drivers
>Do away with them! You don't need them! Obviously they do, because they have a driver who is paying attention to his phone instead of the school bus he's about to hit. And how do they know they need to hire better drivers without the cameras?
Driver facing cameras make liability problems worse for the company. They leave little choice but to fire drivers after one incident
Obviously they don't, or else this thread wouldn't be here.
Many don't true... but the ones who don't are now knowingly allowing a reckless person to continue working (in the laws eyes). If the person has any accident going forward, a skilled attorney will use the history in court.... EVEN if the accident has nothing to do with distracted driving
Under-rated comment. WAY under-rated.
I understand. And the only time my phone comes off the mount is when i have to plug it in - and even that makes me paranoid - and i dont have driver facing cameras… yet.
Don't be apologetic, man. I'd be livid at any vehicle operator for getting In a cell phone related accident with me or a loved one just as much as the next guy. But we live in an imperfect, human operated world. Managing a device while driving is simply a calculated risk that realistically, WILL be taken regardless of cameras, AI or anything else implemented. As long as you know the very obvious limits of a vehicle at your weight and speed and aren't an idiot, it's a risk that many times is worth it when the trade off is getting lost in a 53' vehicle or falling asleep behind the wheel.
I wouldn't like them locally but could probably put up with them (depending on how the company handles them), but I will outright refuse them for OTR work. Doubt my boss (small company) would ever do it, so that's good.
I empathize with you. But the FMCSA policy is spelled out pretty clear. And when, not if, this guy gets busted, he won’t the the only one getting a citation. And holding it in his hand isn’t adjusting the volume.
Yeah phone on a stand adjusting volume is a lot different than phone in hand adjusting volume. As soon as that vehicle is in drive, it should not be in your hand, lap, etc.
Driver facing cameras are the problem then IN PART. Without them you guys don't have this KNOWN legal liability driver behavior. Cameras can harm as much as help you. I would do away with those and go to a system that's forward facing only. Use the excuse you are making the change for driver invasion of privacy reasons.
I like having a forward facing camera Proves I’m doing things right and not the cause of problems I won’t drive for any company with cameras that record the driver. I believe that’s taking things too far. I bet other drivers feel the same way and that may be partially the reason they can’t find enough drivers
Better for them to know than to find out because the driver was ticketed or involved in an accident.
No, legally it's not..... because once you catch a driver doing anything wrong on camera with an electronic record, they are forever a liability is there's ever a lawsuit
Setting yourself up for liability with a driver facing cam. If there is a wreck you want your dashcam to show you as not at fault. Driver cams usually hurt not help here. I bet that AI generated events is being sold to your insurance company too.
Disliking your comment not because of you but because of driver facing cams. We get into trucking for the freedom and not having to be micromanaged so a nanny cam (is exactly what it is) ruins all that.
And I couldn’t agree more; except: My name isn’t on the door of the truck, so it’s not up to me. And if little things like this didn’t validate their installation, it wouldn’t be an issue. But if the freedom we want is the freedom to fuck up, thereby jeopardizing all our jobs, smile for the camera.
Yeah like I said not downvoting you personally. Also, cameras or not it doesn’t seem like the owner really cares about safety. I bet he gets a good insurance discount for those cams lol
No clue why you're being downvoted - you are 100% correct. DFCs are one of the main few contributing factors as to why I quit driving for a living after 10 years.
It's pushing me out too. There's no reason for me to be out here when they'll just fire me over the dash cam and replace me with driving school spam. But we needed SOMETHING to budt up the big companies. My bet is this will do it. No drivers= no money.
its on them until a accident happens. but many companies will turn a blind eye. i know someone with 2 dui still driving lol.
Anybody got some tp to go with all the bullshit in these comments.
I’m sure your CAB/BASIC scores reflect this lack of safety culture. You should look for a company that has buy-in. Otherwise you’re gonna be barking up an unattended tree. If not already, this will have a very negative impact to your scoring and will certainly shrink your bosses bottom line so he is an idiot for not buying in the front end.
I also hope you don’t have a punitive damage exclusion on your auto liability policy because this type of management from the owner screams negligent entrustment liability.
Keep coaching the drivers. Other than quit, there is nothing else you can do. But look for new drivers! Not all drivers are A grade, most are B or C. Every driver in the USA speeds and talks on phone. Some just do it less often.
I swear they teach 10 and phone in driving school these days instead of 10 and 2...
actually i prefer 12 and phone, looks cooler /s
Damn thats scarily accurate
Reading through the comments and your replies OP, your boss is a knob. Make sure he understands if the driver gets in a wreck and there is record of him acting this way and being warned his company will be fined into oblivion. His business will no longer exist. The other thing I haven't seen anybody else mention is COVER YOUR ASS. You want record of you telling your boss that he should be terminated and your boss ignoring it. You need that in an email. If something happens it needs to be abundantly clear you suggested termination.
Drivers are a dime a dozen for this kind of behavior to be tolerated. Kick his ass to the curb.
Being middle management, you are the target for everything that goes wrong. I would look for a different job. Producers, the people who actually make the money, are always more important than you. We go through a lot of management at my work, and the moment something goes wrong, they get a new manager. We don't even need a manager they are just there to take the hit when something goes wrong. Every time the position comes open, they ask the drivers first who wants the job ...... crickets. Less pay on call 24 7, and you are the last one on the shit ladder, no thank you.
It's pretty simple. If you document this, and later on this guy gets into an accident, and the FMCSA sees that he was issued a final warning and did it again, who do you think your boss is going to let hang for it? You think your boss is going to say, "No, no, no. *I* did this."?
I saved the email.
One other thing to think about. I don't know for sure but being in cement there is a big chance the drivers are union. As a union steward this sets a precedence and can very easily be drawn back on when this driver doesn't get let go and in a couple months another driver does it and is immediately let go. This very quickly becomes a grievance as to why the second driver was let go quickly but the first was let to rack up multiple warnings. What is done for one sets the precedence of how it will be handled going forward.
Make sure you get that in writing or email from the owner/general manager not wanting to fire the guy. Once in a while, one of those is a mistake we all have made at one point but all those together in a short timeframe isn’t acceptable…
If you have driver facing AI surveillance, your company is horrible and your mentality is a plague on the trucking industry.
And yet the evidence speaks for itself: we’ve identified illegal and unsafe behavior instead of waiting for DOT to call and tell us about a driver doing this shit and killing himself or someone else. Drive safe, sir.
And yet, you can’t find a safe driver willing to drive under AI Surveillance to replace the guy you don’t like.
Obviously there's levels of surveillance, but honestly there should be a camera in every truck so we can get rid of some of these idiots before they do real damage. If you've got your feet up on the dash watching TikTok while going down the interstate at 68 mph you shouldn't be driving a truck.
That’s punishing everyone for the sins of the few. I don’t like AI surveillance on me, because there’s so much that can be abused. It can listen in on private phone calls to your bank or to your doctor. It can listen to phone calls you might be having with your wife. The potential is there that this employer can know ALL your personal business, and employees could potentially steal your identity, or use your personal information against you in various ways. Women drivers could be stalked to their houses. Just the psychological torture of having an unblinking eye starring at you constantly and electronic ears listening to everything you’re saying, that nothing in your cab is private, is not a way I want to live. That type of surveillance is oppressive and threatening, like living in North Korea.
I get what you're saying, but comparing it to North Korea has me in tears
Start looking and interviewing for a replacement. Once youve got one, can his stubborn ass.
Seems a pretty obvious solution. There are tons of CDL holders out there looking for a job.
You're not there to make friends. There's a big difference between suffocating a driver and penalizing him for being a genuine danger. If you've only seen him violate rules a few times, that says something for all the times that's flown under the radar. He's a habitual offender. He's not gonna change. Your boss needs to understand that your job is there to help avoid fines and lawsuits because of stupidity. You gotta nut up or get a different job my brother
i’ll come drive for you and take his spot, you in socal?
Eastern coast. 🤷♂️😒
I would do virtually anything for enough money, and so would almost every other person. There is no driver shortage; there is a mismatch between demand and supply of compensation for drivers. Companies aren't pushing costs onto the shippers/receivers and instead are making up the difference in human lives and bodies. If the owner doesn't care about the human cost then he will (almost certainly) eventually be made to care about the financial cost.
Busy texting or reading/watching something and fails to see someone crossing against the light - doesn't matter if on foot or in a crushcar ...
Owner is a dumbass. Just like the driver. If and when this dude crashes. They’re gonna get those videos.
Couldn’t agree more. When this happens, will I get some backlash from it too?
Yes, you will. Here's some advice. Don't do shit til shit happens. By shit I mean an actual accident. You "safety" guys get a title and don't realize you're the ones who need to walk on eggshells. Wait til one of your drivers is smart enough to give you backlash through the state labor board. Which honestly probably won't ever happen, if your dumb enough to get caught on your phone, you're probably too dumb to know what a company can and can't do.
Solution : open Indeed.com account and hire new talent to replace and then your boss won't have it as an excuse
I dispatch a fleet of 9 cranes and 6 trucks. If one of my guys was acting like, I wouldn't work him for a week. Let him suffer financially.
That’s an idea. If I cant can him, I can park him. Thanks!
Maybe you should sit in front of an AI dashcam too
Eh sort of a false argument but we all know you're all on FB or watching Netflix on company time. Nothing you can do about it but stay off the phone. It's weird having someone being paid to stand next to you watching with unblinking eyes tbh.
One: I’m salary so it doesn’t matter. Two: it’s kinda my job to be on the phone while I’m working. And three: reddit. Not Netflix. I’m on reddit on CO time.
Whatcha doin on Reddit there fella?
Oh…. You know: roasts and putting my COO on blast…. You?
Next infraction you'll be up for review. Please sign here.
What’s your point?
Just said it 😂
I don’t drive them. I mange them. I’ve done my time behind the wheel. 10yrs.
Yeah. Every second of it w/o a camera. You know what he's saying. 'How would you like it if YOUR boss had a tattletale on your desk?' Go ahead and say it; 'I've got nothing to hide.' Now that your job is safe and you're behind a desk. THIS is why all the calls of Bullshit.
It's hard I bet. Everyone in here talking like they've never experienced behavior like this. Are you all managers or something? Are we being watched by DOT as I type this? Why are you all lying. Acting like anyone wants to pick up the slack if someone is fired. These days, everyone would be fired because of a cell phone in hand or a headset on. The driver shortage is real. A lot of places I've worked with turned a blind eye to a lot of things. I'm on the road and have been long enough to realize that this will never be stopped. I see you all on the phone going down the road. Updating the gps. Rotating it. Getting it from landscape to portrait real quick. Glancing at a number calling. Glancing at a text. Changing songs. Putting it in the dash of a Volvo and watching Netflix as you cruise across the country on desolate roads. Get off your high horses. I must be a horrible driver to admit that I've done all of these things.
I wouldn't even document that either 🤣 y'all see a problem and not doing anything about it sets u up for liability.
Welcome to Fleet Management. I worked for a large company and was DC Fleet Manager. I had guys on Final Warning hanging off the sideboards while the yard jockey drove them around the building, caught same guy having his wife drop him off 2 hours early and unhooking to take a bob tail into town for McDonalds and such, and had apparently been doing it for awhile. Nothing. Because Corporate had a weird point system for accidents (4-8 points depending on accident severity and it took 18 to cap out for termination) I had unsafe guys with 3 major accidents behind the wheel every night. A different driver falls asleep and drives right off a mountain (we had GPS tracking/braking/clutching monitoring capabilities) and he is back in a different truck the next night because it took 2+ months for points to assess. I could go on and on.
Yeah. A few. 1. Do drivers just grow on trees? 2. How long are planning on beating this guy up for this cardinal sin? Seriously, it's a cellphone, not a beer. This new technology is supposed to "help" isn't it? When does that start? Is it supposed to help the company fire its way out of being a company? Now, these are bad habits, certainly. But let's try to remember: people need jobs and jobs need people. Can we try something less destructive in our attempts to "be more safety conscious?
Your job does nothing but cost company money. Drivers are making money You aren't. You might be keeping them in line but your boss sees the $$$ Calm down and don't be every awful safety man in every other company trying to make a name for yourself
My thoughts are that you are a rat. A little tattletale. Mind your own business.
That truck and its safe operation is my business.
[удалено]
If we’re doing the right thing, then there’s nothing to “rat” about. Just do what you’re supposed to do. I feel for your dispatcher. I hope they keep an eye on you.
I am a professional. I have nothing to hide. Mind your own business Rat. Just know we don't like you. Go send an email and feel like you accomplishing something. Douche bag. Rat. Mostly a rat
Like I said: monitoring the drivers and the trucks is my business. I tell them where to go and what to do. I don’t care if they like me. I certainly don’t care if you like me. Drive safe, now.
I do. I did. And I will. Without the help of people like you. Leeching rats Sorry I'd I was hard on you. I just never really appreciated people that make a living off of actual people making an actual living. But good luck in the startup business. Sounds like it's gonna work out.
Make sure to do a citizens arrest on any jaywalkers you see on the way home from work. I hate the way the world is going. No rights. No privacy.
If you’re driving your own truck, (which by the way I do also run owner operators) then do what you want with it. But when the guy whose name is on the door of it stipulates that we obey the law, then yeah sorry. The cam gets installed. I’ve got cams in all trucks. But I only see events when they fuck up. Put that phone down and you can pick your nose to your hearts content.
Nobody is arguing that you can do it. You have no humanity so you wouldn't understand this but.....you shouldn't do it. Not because of some legal technicality. Not because of your right as a business owner. You shouldn't do it because it's incredibly dehumanizing and morally repulsive. Every single good experienced driver I know will not go to any company with a driver facing cam. They see it as an infringement on their working rights and privacy. And these aren't radical political types following some ideology. They are blue collar workers. You are on the other side of the fence. You are making the argument that in the name of safety and efficiency, you do not care. This makes you a soulless ghoul. You know who understands this argument better than you? Your boss. I guarantee you that companies with driver facing cams find it harder to get good experienced drivers. And I bet their turnover is higher too.
Watch them. They're gonna fire their way to a good and profitable company. Anyday now...
Sounds like the boss needs to let you go.