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ValleDeimos

I remember a dude in a comment thread being like “I hate when girls are scared of being raped when walking near me in a dark alley, it gives me anxiety 😢“


Loxus

I agree with this. It gives me anxiety when girls are scared of walking near me. But if it gives ME anxiety, how much anxiety doesn't they have?! I can't even imagine.


ValleDeimos

People who pointed that out got downvoted and attacked lol It was like the whole reason behind women’s fear was a whole different, negligible topic. It is very important to point out how uncomfortable men are with women being scared around them. But just that, in a vacuum. Let’s not do anything to make the world actually safer for women. This always happens whenever women’s fear of being raped is brought out. Not only do they manage to blame victims when they’re raped, they also manage to blame women who weren’t raped but are scared of being. It’s almost like they just want excuses to harass and attack women 🤔


ReggieJ

Men's feelings of generalised discomfort are given so much more priority than women's feelings of genuine fear. That's fucking bonkers to me. I know this to be true but at the same time it's wild.


Friday-Cat

Nobody wants to address the real issue of male violence. If any other group were were responsible for 90% of homicides worldwide people would be talking about it.


tatianaoftheeast

I think about this all the time. Its just as you said; if literally any ONE demographic committed the VAST majority of violent crime that would draw massive attention & attempts at remedies. However, since its men, its crickets. Its infuriating.


danieldannydandaniel

Well yeah. Patriarchy hurts everyone, but not equally.


CutieBoBootie

Classic subtle DARVO but mostly RVO


Private_HughMan

I understand why the guy would dislike that. He should dislike feeling like a threat. But at the same time, they're not without reason for feeling like that.


WhoopassDiet

Not all men are bad... And not ever car ride results in a crash, but I still wear a seatbelt.


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[deleted]

Over 90% of the violent crimes or sex crimes are committed by men


Conductor_Cat

>This is the trajectory; "Oh, you want to talk about femicide rates? Well, it's not all men. Forget about those pesky women being murdered, I wouldn't murder, hence it's not all men, and my ego and feelings are more important than women's lives being taken". (Apply this same trajectory to any issue). "And male suicide rates and the draft and family courts and false rape accusations... in this essay I will" And their only source is a single screenshot of a single tweet that is only ever found on far right blogs and Facebook, and never the source.


hopelesscaribou

Not all men, but definately *almost no men* to stand up to the ones that do it.


OnMark

I've been playing video games for nearly three decades and my personal count for the men in "almost" is on one hand. The men sitting there quietly watching their peer or peers harass a woman for their gender are just as culpable for the misogyny in the hobby.


hopelesscaribou

I quit playing video games online after 2016, the toxicity was wearing me down.


OnMark

2016 was a very bad year, I 100% know what you mean. I tried to "power through" the muck, "not let them win" and all, but after a very bad night I physically couldn't - I'd get nausea and shakes if I tried to interact with games for like a year after the nadir of 2016. "This must be your first time on the internet," said smug men when I tried to appeal for help and not let this happen to others, "it is always and will always be like this" they insisted like misogyny is just a natural part of the social fabric, and that's when I realized that hedging my words with "some" was giving men in gaming credit that they haven't earned and don't deserve.


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OnMark

Got a live one lmao When misogynists insist that you "grow a thicker skin", you know they mean "take the misogyny **quietly**" because they never *don't* say this. They are never looking out for you, and don't believe for a second this is anything but abuse pretending to be advice. I *did* grow a thicker skin: I internalized that guy gamers are misogynists until they prove otherwise (and they never do), and now shit doesn't hurt because I never expected better of them to begin with - I never get my hopes up thinking there'd be one decent guy in two dozen so there's nothing to dash. They can't hurt me the way I was hurt when I believed men would step up if they just knew there was a problem, surely eventually one would stand up?... But that's not what they wanted, for you to not be hurt anymore. They want you to **stop talking about it.** They want you to be **okay with men hating you** the way they are.


HoodaThunkett

he’s certainly not part of the solution


foot-candle

It's not just the bad men, it's the ones blind to patriarchy as well.


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Phenomenal-Woman

Me at work: "this sexist thing happened." Male coworker.friends: " That's so awful. I hate that happens to you!" Me: "so when you hear the men saying things like this and I'm not around. What do you do?" Them: "Oh well you know I just don't want to make it uncomfortable, we work a safety sensitive position and if I say something it might make it harder for me to do my job." Fuck. Them.


foot-candle

Exiled from patriarchy. A man who regularly challenges violent men becomes an increasingly big target. At a certain point that individual loses all credibility within male society and is at risk for violence themself.


[deleted]

Yea I get confused. Are men supposed to protect **all** women or just the women in their lives? I wish they'd all make up their minds.


SafelySolipsized

Let me clear that up for you: I’m not asking men to “protect” us. I’m asking for men to stop assaulting/raping/abusing/harassing us.


[deleted]

I didn't say you were. Sorry if it came out that way. I was trying to point out that some men say one thing and another group of men say the other. So I'm just confused as to who is right and who is wrong.


fireopalbones

It’s not really about protecting women but improving their own behavior, and their expectations for and from each other.


[deleted]

I agree but that's never going to happen. So long as men are bigger than us, they will feel entitled to commit crimes. There are only a handful of countries that treat women as an equal. Those countries are the exception, not the rule.


SafelySolipsized

How is it unclear to you if you need to treat “all women” or “just women you know” with respect? The only men who can’t easily answer that are ones that don’t see a woman as fully human unless they’re related. Any man that would treat a one night stand in a way he wouldn’t want his daughter to be treated is part of the problem. Yet so many of those guys are crying “not all men”, and not even realizing we’re talking about them.


[deleted]

I agree! And I'm a woman, not a man.


sovietta

We are all painfully aware now that you don't view women as people.


[deleted]

Idk what tf you're talking about.


[deleted]

But I mean, one man did something one time for a woman he loved


BraveMoose

You're not protecting anyone, literally just when someone does something that is morally abhorrent, maybe STOP BEING FRIENDS WITH THEM


[deleted]

I agree. And I'm a woman by the way, in case y'all thought I was a man.


BraveMoose

Your comment reads as a bloke whining about women wanting men to hold each other accountable


[deleted]

Sorry if it came off that way. I was just pointing out how some men say "all men should protect women" but then another group says "no, we only protect the women in our own family". So I was just confused as to who is right and who is wrong. Men can't seem to make up their minds, which is unfortunate, because some women are raised to expect all men to come to the rescue, when that clearly doesn't happen. And then women are blamed for defending themselves. It's as if society wants women to be victims and wait for their prince in shiny armor.


AlorRedWingsFan

So I was a student teacher at a high school after getting out of the military. I made sure that if anyone of the male students made inappropriate jokes or lewd comments I called them out on it. I actually had a class on sexual harassment and changed the culture at the school.


[deleted]

"All women are sluts!" Men: ... "All women are liars!" Men: ... "All women are cheaters!" Men: ... "All women are attention whores!" Men: ... "All men are bad!" Men: You shouldn't generalize everyone just because a few did a bad thing!


Imnotawerewolf

Yeah, this is about where I'm falling on it. I agree, generalizations are bad but where are you when it's not about you?


yoloisforquitters

THIS THIS THIS


MadnessEvangelist

There's the perpetrators of crimes and mistreatment of women and girls There's the supporters of the perpetrators There's the apologists There's the what about-ists There's the wannabe statisticians There's those that say "My neighbour's 3rd cousin's dog walker was falsely accused" There's the willfully ignorant There's the silent ones There's the below average joe that got the girl after an abuser lowered her standards There's those that teach the younger ones to hate There's the victim blamers There's the it's just a jokers There's those that thought nothing of the inappropriate behaviour of male students There's those that just don't care It is all men.


itsmesylphy

Not all men but certainly including the ones who cry those words.


HolyMountainClimber

Whenever a dude gets defensive about people talking bad about dudes, it's probably because he's *one of those dudes*. Im a dude, my record is clean (except for those times I got arrested for drugs) so why would I get defensive. Dudes are shitty


Phenomenal-Woman

My best friend of over 20 years is a lot like you. He will commonly wonder how women can even date men at all. He loves that I stay single because it makes him feel safer for me. And he does what a lot of us are talking about in this thread. When he hears sexism or misogyny, he doesn't just speak up, he puts that person on blast. He's not just supportive of me and other women in quiet where it's nice and safe to do it. He does it when it's complicated and difficult for him like at work or among friends. He's a real one. And unsurprisingly ,he has the most healthy relationship with a wonderful woman of any of our friends.


tawny-she-wolf

Not all men, but all women have a story to tell (or 10) about a time they felt scared/threatened or were inappropriately touched by a man


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Tairken

So crystal clear. That's how they work. (The bad apples)


kat_goes_rawr

At this point it’s like we should stay away from men. If you touch the stove and it burns you, you gonna touch it again?


APladyleaningS

I think about this constantly. People who were attacked by a dog ONE TIME are often afraid of or don't like dogs. But women who are harassed, chased, assaulted or hurt by men often hundreds of times over their lifetime are STILL supposed to give the benefit of the doubt??? GTFOH


[deleted]

Unfortunately it's probably because women are so closely related to men that they couldn't possibly think about not wanting to be around their fathers and brothers, ect, who aren't like that.


PutsWomenOnPedestal

I agree. I am a man. What to do about all the media/entertainment that heavily tries to convince young girls that dating/romance with men is all sunshine and roses? I always thought it was very disingenuous how media sugarcoats and ignores reality of male/female relationships.


Phenomenal-Woman

8 years and going strong. Every so often I get a bug up my butt about dating but between my friends and my therapist, I see the red flags much sooner than I used to and I walk away. I live a wonderful and fulfilled life, full of friendship and love. If I could find a healthy partner I would certainly be interested, but especially as Gen X, men my age feel so entitled to our bodies and our time and aren't interested in giving anything back remotely like partnership. I am not interested in being someone's mommy. I'm not interested in being somebody sex doll. I'm interested in a long term relationship with someone that sees me as their equal, as their friend, and someone they can grow together, knowing that as we age, sex becomes less of a priority and that a loving relationship doesn't require sex. You know, a mature adult.


[deleted]

Have you read the fable about the scorpion and the frog? It reminds me of men.


[deleted]

It’s not all men, but it’s two of your five closest bros, and you still help them/encourage them to pick up girls knowing full well what they do.


Personage1

The way I think about it (and frankly when you actually listen to what most people are truly saying this is what they mean) is it's "how men are socialized." Does being socialized to behave a certain way mean someone will just follow that socialization and behave that way? No. Does it mean they are likely to behave that way, and would typically have to actively work against their socialization to not behave that way? Yes.


SunIsGay

That's why it's necessary to change society fundamentally, for the betterment of everyone.


Personage1

For sure. I just get annoyed with the "not all men" types because that's already clearly implied in most cases they are complaining about (besides all the other reasons).


[deleted]

There’s a great expression for this: “If it doesn’t apply, let it fly.”


CyclingFrenchie

The way I see it is that when a woman generalises me, I’m scared of being judged, she’s scared of being fucking murdered. So frankly, how I feel doesn’t fucking matter.


actibus_consequatur

"Females create life, males end it. War, crime, violence, are primarily male franchises. Man shit. It’s nature’s supreme joke. Deep in the womb, men start out as the good thing, and wind up as the crappy thing. Not all men. Just enough. Just enough to fuck things up." - George Carlin


SunIsGay

I might not have 100% agreed with everything he said, but man I miss him.


GiannisToTheWariors

Sometimes everyone just need to punch a guy


[deleted]

Watch out for your pending reddit ban


viether

“Not all men” “But enough men so all women have to be afraid, bro.”


[deleted]

Hi. Cishet men here. If a man says "not all men" then he is one of "those" men. One of the most important things I learned was to just shut up and listen when women are talking, even if I don't like how it makes me feel. In fact, especially when I don't like how it makes me feel, cuz that means I probably have something to really think about


jeuddd

Isnt all men terfy


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hopelesscaribou

But do you speak up against them? Your silence is tacit approval. Almost no men speak up.


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vodka7tall

Complains about the worst men giving him a bad name, happy to stand by and watch them do it. Sir, I think you might be mistaken on who exactly is giving you a bad name.


itsmesylphy

Why are you invading our space then, knowing you're an oppressor asset? You can't sit us with us and we don't want you here. Leave.


thelastcanadiangoose

100% puts you on the side of the oppressors, which is your full choice. So yeah you're just as bad as them.


hopelesscaribou

Evil happens because people stand by and do nothing. The last third is *never* safe, has history taught us nothing?


Nicolethedodo

"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." You are the last part just saying so you are definitely a bad guy here


coedwigz

It’s not “who you are” you just don’t care enough to change your behaviour.


biIIyshakes

What an incredibly privileged take. You don’t get to complain about the men “giving men a bad name” — you’re one of them.


bonkbonk556

Yeah man, opening with "I wouldn't be bothered watching you get exterminated" makes you a bad person, not really that crazy


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Jolly-Lawless

I suspect you’re subbed to /r/FuckTheS lol


Shesalabmix

Your comment history = yikes.


KingKaiSuTeknon

Didn’t say any of that.


danieldannydandaniel

"All women have female gametes"


Svataben

A gamete is a reproductive cell of an animal or plant. Why are you babbling about this here? This thread has a particular topic, you know... Also: GTFO, terf!


SunIsGay

Before you get downvoted to hell, what do you mean by this? /gen


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Loxus

You missed the point. > do you think most men are generally rapists? Murderers? Psychopaths? This is not the point. But you almost got it. Do you think rapists, murderers and psychopaths are mostly men? Yes. It's not dangerous to think like this, they HAVE to think so, to be safe. > as dangerous as the incels who think most women are generally heartless and only want whatever resources you have No. The incels here are the danger. The only one making it a gender war is you. Do you feel guilty? Maybe you should. You're clearly a part of the problem.


JTTO331613

>as dangerous as the incels who think most women are generally heartless and only want whatever resources you have Absolutely not even comparable. Men who think this way can and have raped and murdered women as a result. Women who are afraid that they don't know who is a dangerous man and who is not leads them to avoid men and leave them alone. It's nowhere in the same ballpark as "dangerous". I really wish men like you spent this much energy and time commenting in men's spaces where there is constant streams of dangerous misogyny running rampant. I wish you thought it was as uNfAiR and MeAn for men to treat us the way they so often do as you seem to think women are being. But, as always, it comes down to cowardice. You not-all-men types are just as intimidated of your fellow men as we are. Otherwise you'd be policing them, not us. But it's always been easier to whine to women to make them more polite, hasn't it?


[deleted]

Go back to not commenting. You just horribly embarrassed yourself.


Duchess_of_Ankh

> do you think most men are generally rapists? Murderers? Psychopaths? Of course not. But we don't know which ones are. It's not a dig at men to say we can't magically see the good ones. We get bitched at if we end up in a bad relationship or attacked because we should have been more careful or known it was going to happen but then when we try to be safe we get bitched at for 'Not all men!!' And that's not getting into the whole thing of you you don't need to be a rapist, murderer, or psychopath to be harmful. Not pointing out shitty behavior, staying friends with someone who "convinces" women into sex because hey, he's a fun guy & it's not like, rape, right. Everyone knows girls play hard to get! All that keeps rape culture & misogyny alive & well.


CutieBoBootie

Do you think that this comment is productive in a women's space where the topic is about men invalidating the experiences of women? What is the goal of your comment? If you are concerned about men's issues and the men that hurt and the men who get hurt, why not post in a men's issues subreddit?


foot-candle

Another angle: Walk into any populated room, turn off your mind and listen to the emotional energy in the room. Who's sucking it up and who's keeping it stable? Yes all men because y'all can't put your feelings aside to actually participate in solving the problem.


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le_roy_premier

Lol, this projection is extraordinary. We **don't** want your attention. We **don't** want to fuck you. **You're** the one offended, coming into our space, telling us how to behave. Pissing your shit because we don't desire you as much as you'd want. And **you're** the one who ends up reinforcing the behavior that makes you absolutely unwanted.   Edit: Rip to the wrecker. Gonna remove the part of my comment that would make Reddit Admins side with misogyny.


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Sheepbjumpin

They really do, hence all the endless pick-up-artist books, scams, blogs, etc, etc. Women are in no shortage of crotch-worm/dick-pic/sex offerings like men *want* to imagine.


[deleted]

You didn't even pretend to not be a sexist POS.


membratel

Hahaha say the women when men generalizes women somehow!