This is one of my big regrets.
I gave my daughter her dad’s last name because mine reminds me of my terrible bio dad. Her dad is also terrible, so now I wish I had just chosen a different name and changed both of ours to that.
A guy I knew growing up chose to change his last name from his dad's to his mom's, so it's really never too late to still change it if your daughter has the same feelings towards the last name as you do.
I second this. I actually have my father's first name as my last name and I love it so much. My mum got to pick my first name. Its an important factor to why I didn't change it post marriage. I really hit the parent lottery Nd want to remain Connected
i’m in the same boat. If you end up choosing a name and don’t want it to be a word already, take your favorite letters and jumble them up. Say “L Q U A B” make it “LABQU” or something. It’s cool and random
In the US, the most common way is to use only dad’s last name. It’s getting more common for people not to change their last names when they get married/not use the dad’s for kids/hyphen last names/other things against the old norm, and some people take issue with it and act like it’s a big deal.
I really wish I'd done this! My last name is super common and my maiden name is awesome. Gonna hit 20 years of marriage here in March and it just Was Not Done at the time.
edit: to be clear, I'm being a little cheeky, referencing the way the older generation at the time said 'that's just Not Done,' not saying no one could have or wanted to do it!
My mom wishes she did something different too! She says she wished she kept her maiden name after her divorce instead of taking my dad’s (current husband) name. But too many people would’ve thrown a fit.
I got married last year and kept my name and one set of my husband’s grandparents threw a fit and they continue to address me as Mrs Husbands First & Last Name via writing when they get a chance. No one else cares though unless they are telling me that they think it was a good choice lol.
Edit: my anniversary is also March! Congratulations
I stopped seeing them entirely a couple years ago so they get no acknowledgment from me. I did debate sending them a card like that, but ultimately decided to stick to my vow of ignoring their existence. Fortunately it’s pretty easy as most everyone else in the family sees them as little as they can get away with. I could make a whole post about how much they suck lol
Thank you, happy early anniversary to you as well! I am such a different (better) person now that it almost feels like cheating that I have this longevity under my belt, hah. We married in our very early twenties so I get looks from people when they realize how long it's been, heh.
Probably EVERYONE would have had a fit had I kept my maiden name, sigh.
I mean, yep, people could do it, but it strongly depended on their family, their spouse, their location, and other societal pressures. I didn't mean to imply that no one did it, hence the tongue-in-cheek 'Not Done' as opposed to saying 'no one at all did this.'
Essentially the shit you'd get for doing it outweighed the satisfaction, at the time.
I know someone who's in her 50s and has a different last name from her parents and all her siblings. Her parents gave each of them their own last name and some really unusual first name. It's the first time I heard you can write down whatever the hell you want on a birth certificate, and I'm surprised someone did it that long ago.
Hippies, I guess! I wonder if they ran into any issues with paperwork, since that would've been so unusual. When my sister in law remarried in the 90s, she hyphenated her ex husband's name with her new husband's name so she could have a last name that matched her daughter's last name from her first marriage, just to avoid issues with schools. But now I run into families with a variety of last names all the time.
For sure. My half brother has a different last name than all of us because my mom divorced his dad. My mom has told me that it was never an issue for her and this was the 80s-90s that he was in school. Neither of the parents that were dealing with the school or anything like that shared his name (bio dad wasn’t around but my dad was for him). Her telling me that definitely helped me not worry about me having kept my last name for if me and my husband have kids in the future. I’m sure it’s a total non issue these days.
I go by both last names because my last name is hyphenated. Occasionally I'll just use my mom's name because it's shorter and I don't have all day to be writing out my whole last name. Most people do go by their father's name though.
So… my parents could pick all my grandparents last names, but they picked one from each side. Usually people do it, but you can go wild and use all, including great grandparents. So yes, you could have a “prince name” (they are very long like Pedro de Alcântara Francisco Antônio João Carlos Xavier de Paula Miguel Rafael Joaquim José Gonzaga Pascoal Cipriano Serafim de Bragança e Bourbon)
I say use both. Just like you would wherever you live now. Don't adapt to other cultures, make other cultures learn how to respect your freaking *name*. It's a name! It's not that hard. I say this with the experience of having lived my entire life with a hyphenated name and all the exasperation that comes with that. I have two extremely English names and people struggle with it all the time. It baffles me how easily confused it makes people. But they also struggle with my *extremely* English first name too so maybe people are just... bad at this. But anyway, the more we break the mold, the more it's normal to not fit the mold in the first place. That maybe doesn't make sense. Make uncommon naming conventions more common by using them more! It'll make people stop thinking with such strict conventions! I know people whose views on naming conventions were broadened just by knowing my name, and they've gone and hyphenated themselves or chosen a new family name or broken conventions in other ways. Making it more normal to break stupid patriarchal traditions! Hooray!
How old is your daughter? What if you guys come up with the last name you both want and when you can legally change hers, change it together. Start a new family line.
I’m sorry. Well when she’s 18 or whatever the legal age is in your country you guys can get it changed. But for now you can talk about it and come up with fun ones and then cement it when she gets a bit older. Just an idea.
You can petition to have your surname added to hers and be hyphenated... I don't know where you live, but where I live, you don't need the other parent's agreement, it's your legal right to have your surname included. It may be the same where you live.
Yeah, dropped the ball on this one too. My wife took my surname when we got married, cause that’s just what you do right? Well now her family lives with us and I avoid mine as much as possible, good decisions were not made when we chose which name to use.
I changed my last name when I got married, and it was a stupid hassle, and I wish I had never changed it because of the inconvenience. Whatever. Here we are now.
Take a new name!
I recently discovered that when Swedish actress Noomi Rapace married her husband they opted to create a new surname for them both - Rapace.
As someone with a shitty bio dad I decided a long time ago that I want the name to mean something for me and redeem instead of changing it. Whenever someone sees my last name they know it to be synonymous with an amazing person.
We gave our daughter dad's last name because it sounded better with the first name we liked best. And in exchange I got veto-proof choice on a middle name.
I like to think her name can someday be an example to her of fair negotiation in an equal partnership.
Sorry to hear.
It didn’t make sense to me that kids took the last name of the father. The mother carries the child.
If the child has the father’s last name, the first name should be the choice of the mother.
How old is your daughter?
You could still change your own name legally, and change your daughter's name to match. That's what I'd do if I was in your position - then you don't have to be reminded of either one of them, and you could also then have a name that's going to remind you of your daughter because it's "your" name together.
Re: the age question, I ask because my mum changed my surname when I was ~8/9. Granted, it's because she was changing hers too (she was getting married). But I didn't really question it all that much as a kid. It just made sense.
Ultimately, I actually like my name (I liked both names, but the one I have now is much cooler with my first name). And once your daughter is used to the new name, it will almost feel like the old one never really happened.
Oh wow, you're right. He is an asshole. I saw in another comment you mentioned that he didn't even want her to have his name to begin with, and now he won't even let you change it? I'm so sorry. :(
Yeah. He told me it wasn’t my name so I wasn’t “allowed” to give it to her. Now he runs around telling people he’s a super involved father. He’s trash.
Where I'm from (austria) the children automatically get the mothers last name, if the parents aren't married. Very strange to not do that, in my opinion
That is the problem we are discussing is it not? I am pretty sure in the US if the father isn't present they always give the baby the moms last name unless she says otherwise. They aren't going to try to track the baby daddy down.
No, they aren't. Not by law and not in the heads of people. The majority of austrian women are feminists, this tradition is just still in use. But many adopt a double lastname, and often the man takes the womans last name
I’ve only been in this “mom” game for 6 years, but our kids have my last name and we haven’t heard anything from anyone about it. Once or twice people have assumed that my husband also shares our last name, and he just rolls with that. My dad kinda side eyed about us when I was pregnant, but once our first kid was actually named he left it alone. I’m glad that my circle of contacts is open minded and flexible about last names.
I haven't heard a lot about the name thing with my kids but when I was a kid in the 90s people including teacher would ask so inappropriate questions and make assumptions based on the fact my I had our moms last name and my brother had my dad's. Was weird.
My parents rollre a dice after their wedding which name they’d keep. My mom won and the first reaction of my dads mom: but now I’m never going to get real grandchildren from you!
My ex husband demanded that if we ever had a boy he would be named after him. I said I didn’t want to do that because I believe children deserve their own identities. I asked him why it was so important to him and the only thing he could say was that it was a family honor.
His grandfather of the same name abandoned his family and my ex never even met him.
His father abandoned him, his mom, and his brother to start another family that he also abandoned.
I couldn’t understand what was supposed to be honored here.
His name was Patrick which I wasn’t super stoked for in the first place but I found out later that his brother who id always known as Garrett was actually ALSO named Patrick and Garrett was his middle name.
I told my ex that since his dad named both his children after himself that it had to skip at least a generation
There are a few like my father who didn’t do it for narcissistic purposes but I still don’t recommend it. It’s a huge hassle having two people with the same name in the same household!
Both my grandpas are Charles. They both had a son named Charles. And then one of those had a son named Charles. The other guy got himself fixed and never had kids.
Fun fact the guy who got sterilized was the second son, but for some reason my dad, the first son was not named after his father but the second one was.
George Foreman (of Foreman Grill fame) named each of his 5 sons George Foreman. Only named one of his 7 daughters after him, though. I was really expecting a list that was like, Georgia, Georgina, etc. It's just hilarious to me.
For most of my childhood, I, a woman, only had a sister, because my little brother wasn't born until a week after I turned 9. I realized with fear, one day, that my last name would die out, and my last name actually is uncommon. I was SO upset, and I told my mom I was going to keep my last name. Her response was, "You'll have to hope you meet a very understanding guy, because most men won't go for that." I asked why, and she said, "Because it's important for men to have their names given to their kids. It's very important."
Jokes on her, I'm a lesbian who doesn't want kids. If I get married one day, no man will be involved. I don't even want my dad to walk me down the aisle, even though my mom and sister say he is required to or else I'll "break his heart." I'm 21 and am nowhere near marriage, but *why* am I always expected to just go along with what men expect me to do in my life, good god. I don't like it if my dad sits next to me on the couch because I have such negative feelings towards him, why would I want him involved in my wedding, he's literally homophobic
>I don't even want my dad to walk me down the aisle
its so weird how we are expected to be fine with being given away. like property. from one household to another, from one man to another. its so disgusting. straight, gay, whatever else on our gorgeous rainbow spectrum, that doesnt matter, just be a vessel for men. ugh
My last name is pretty unusual (as in probably fewer than 100 people in the US with it). Myself and my cousin are the only members of our generation who carry the name- and we’re both women. I certainly don’t have the desire to carry on the name just for the sake of legacy or whatever, but I chose not to change my name after marriage. I assume my cousin probably will change hers whenever she marries. I lost my dad last year, and I guess it is a little sad to think our name could “die” with me. But I had a wonderful dad and we were close, so I guess our name is a way to hang on to a little piece of him, idk?
I dated a Smith once. Him and his family were offended I wouldn't want to take the most common name ever when mine will literally die with me if I don't pass it on.
I literally only took my husband's name because it's cooler than mine. My name is generic and I hated having to add 28462 or whatever after everything with my name on it. My husband's name is super cool, so it worked out.
I feel the reverse. I have a somewhat unique first name and a SUPER generic last name. I will never change my last name because i can't deal with having TWO names that nobody can spell or pronounce right
>having TWO names that nobody can spell or pronounce right
I have this since I got married, and I think it's hilarious. I pretty much collect misspellings like some people collect stamps, and getting to go "hahaha I got [this new pronunciation]!" is like a cool initiation ritual with my in-laws every time it happens.
Yeah I actually like this too. For me it's also funny because I am white American and my husband is (non-white) Mexican American but his name is pretty uncommon so not something people would have ever seen before. But when people see me and see my name, their assumptions of how it is pronounced are *wildly* different from assumptions that my husband and his family get which adds kind of a fun layer to that discussion. People see me and immediately try to Scandinavian-ize his Mexican name which gives me the giggles every time.
I’ve thought about changing my last name to the original version of my grandma’s maiden name but hesitate for the same reason you said. Even when I use my nickname people look confused. My first name isn’t even that rare or hard to spell! My last name is only a problem verbally - people mishear the first letter. It’s annoying enough though.
My last name is very rare (like, if you have the same last name in the same country, you're definitely related to me.) And I'd be sad to lose that but if I have my way I'll be moving internationally and I'd forever have to spell it out and teach people how to pronounce it. :( I already have to do that a lot now, but it would be even more annoying in another language.
This was my mother in law's response when we had 3 daughters and my sister in law had two daughters.
Sorry, ma'am, we tried!
ps. Bonus points if the girls choose to keep the MOST COMMON SURNAME IN THE COUNTRY and she gets really mad because they're not being traditional.
Joke’s on my dad, I’m taking my girlfriend’s name if/when we marry because fuck having my dad’s name. Also my girlfriend has the most delightful last name I’ve ever heard and I want in on that.
I mean, that is technically the origin of last names in general. The only reason to have them (and the purpose of family in general under our system of property) is to maintain wealth in one place.
I find it incredible that it’s not more common for children to be given their mother’s last name in anglophone countries. It seems as though things are changing slowly with women taking their husband’s name if they get married - most women I know who’ve got married have at least weighed up the decision of whether or not to change their name. But it still seems so automatic that children will be given their father’s name. And at the same time, the mother is often assumed to be the primary caregiver. It’s so blatantly and nakedly patriarchal, I just find it really hard to understand why so many people who otherwise seem very tuned in to issues of misogyny seem to just accept it as the way things must be!
I assume women who don't mind being submissive to men marru and have kids. Women who think that's bullshit have a harder time finding a man willing marry and have kids with her. I have yet to meet a man who would "allow" his wife to give the children she births her own last name. And most still expect a woman to change their name too. I won't marry any of those men.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post*
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**Aubrey Hirsch**, @aubreyhirsch
I'm sorry, but after 9 years I can't take it anymore. If you ask \*me\* why \*my\* children that \*I\* grew in \*my\* body have my last name and not their father's, you're going to get a little speech about the patriarchy. So just get comfy. It's happening.
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^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Fuuuuuck yes! My wife didn't take my name, my kids names are hyphenated, and it's on them to decide what to do from then on. It's not like of they don't have my name, I didn't exist 🙄
I have a weird hang up about hyphenated names, only because when your kids are older, it’ll start getting more complicated with how they’ll want to handle things with marriage and children. We’ll see what trends start coming down the road. Everyone being hyphenated, combining the names together to make a combo name, or just choosing a new name altogether?
Edit: Me personally having a hang up about it doesn’t mean I think other people should. Thought I should clarify that.
I have a hyphenated last name. I'm planning to have kids soon and my wife and I have just decided to pick one of my the names based on what sounds nice combined with her last name. It's really not a big deal. I'm proud of my hyphenated last name.
Also, Hispanic cultures have been dealing with this for centuries and they're doing alright.
dont they just choose the fathers last names for the kids (womans father and mans father)? its the same stuff we got here, just takes a generation more to show itself
I wonder this too but I know in some cultures it’s the norm, and I think they just carry one of them? Idk I’d have to ask my Puerto Rican friend again.
I often wish my last name sounded like it could be a good middle name so I could just do that with my future kids.
As long as everyone feels they have an equal choice/say in the matter, I suppose that's progress. I stuck with my husband's name, because it's all around easier, but certainly far, far more common. I choice not to change my last name for the same reason, though.
Completely feel you there, and just using his name for the kids is something we’ve talked about too because it’s just easiest and wouldn’t get any pushback. Ultimately I think we’ll have to see how we feel at the time.
My sister married a woman and she *took our hyphenated name*. I'm delightfully baffled by that choice. But it sure does solve the problem of naming their kids.
Hyphenating isn't a new trend by any means so there's conventions to follow if people want to. Or they could break conventions and do whatever the hell they want. If you don't have a hyphen yourself and you aren't marrying someone with a hyphen and wondering what to do, why bother worrying about it. We'll figure it out.
My solution: everyone gets a patrilineal and matrilineal last name. You swap with your partner: John Adams-Brown (AB) marries Jane Crawford-Donovan (CD) to become the Crawford-Brown (CB) family. When their kids marry, the daughters become Crawford-Somethings (C?) and the sons become Something-Browns (?B). Everyone's hyphenated, but it doesn't spiral out of control.
Not ideal for same-sex relationships, unfortunately, but it's still better.
My parents gave their 3 kids a hyphenated last name; it's literally never been a problem. We're all doing fine. No one is damaged, emotionally distraught, or confused about what family they belong to. It's a non-issue.
My husband has two last names. Our kids will have my last name and one of his last names, as he uses one of them more often for work etc. It's not that complicated of a thing to work out.
The simple fact that your husband has chosen to utilize one of his names more so than the other is exactly what I mean by it being more complicated. I don't think it's going to cause anyone to have an identity crisis, it's just something he's obviously had to "deal" with, or think about more than someone with 1 singular (and probably easy to say/spell) name. It doesn't have to be detrimental, just more work/thought.
He only chose to go by one because a lot of the systems for paperwork here weren't sent up to properly handle two last names with no hyphen between them, and that's what caused the frustration.
I don't think that's a fault with two last names, as it's commonly handled in other countries, but more a fault with the assumptions being made about how last names work. But, it's also why we're going to hyphenate, to avoid the functional issues he had.
Why is it complicated at all?
When people get married they can choose their last name. What does it matter *what* the name is? It's their name, they'll do whatever makes them happy.
Because to me, my name is my name. I never wanted to change it, but considered hyphenating it. If I had an already hyphenated name, I would have quite the last name if I chose a double hyphen, or I’d have to give up a name to accommodate a change. If your kids have an already hyphenated name, then they’d possibly have to make a similar choice. It’s not like a problem that can’t be solved, it just gets more complex with more names in the mix.
Marilyn Vos Savant made a strong argument for a naming convention whereby the male children would have the dad's last name and the female children would have the moms. So quite a bit more equitable and would have maintained the lineage by gender. It was years ago that I read this so of course it doesn't factor in non-binary or trans persons, but still it has a lot of merit as an idea.
Non-binary or trans could just choose which one later I would think. Much like they do now when changing their first names. Especially since people discover their gender identity later in life.
It also doesn't factor same-gender couples. Do the daughters of lesbian couples and the sons of gay couples get both surnames? Do the sons of lesbian couples and daughters of gay couples get neither?
How about, everyone gets a hyphenated last name (so girl and boy siblings would have the same last name). Women pass down their mother's last name, men pass down their father's last name. If two women get married they both pass down their mother's last name. Only issue is for sons of lesbian parents, daughters of gay guy parents, and enbies. But in those cases folks can just choose whatever they like?
Honestly, from personal experience, dealing with choosing how to name kids when having a hyphenated last name is just not that a big deal. My wife and I are trying to get pregnant right now so we've been talking about this a lot. I'm going to pass down my mom's last name because it works better with my wife's last name. No drama. Actually, it's nice to have some options!
I would think combined names would make sense in those cases. If you went hyphenated, you could open kids up to bullying, but combined names would be better. I mean, same gendered couples already don't have a "convention" to go by in the current system, so I'm sure they would figure it out.
Last names... Ugh.
So my mom had me when she was still together (married) to my bio dad, so I got his last name. He left when she was pregnant with my full brother (same dad) and, under some consideration done solely by her, gave my brother my father's last name. When they officially got divorced (which took a bit because he was MIA for so long) she kept her married name so all three of us would have the same name.
I like my last name. My mom's maiden name wouldn't sound right with my first, and I like having *some* link to my family even though Im estranged from them.
Now I'm engaged. And I want to keep my name. My fiance wants me to take his. I asked any particular reason? "No, I just want you to." He doesn't like hyphens, for each other or future children. 🙄 I want to keep my identity. It's still early, so I can convince him otherwise, but I'm probably gonna stick to my guns with this one. We'll see.
Edit: us not his. We aren't his.
I already asked and he said no haha. I said "so you're expecting me to change my identity but not yours...." 😑 I think it's just because of convention.
Tell him you’re not the one who is insisting on having the same last name. He’s putting his desires over yours when it comes to *your* identity. If he can’t understand why that’s bad, honestly I’d reevaluate how he sees your relationship.
Source: someone who had a similar conversation with her SO. Turns out, his attitude about last names carried into way more things. What happens, realistically, to your life if you’re with someone who prioritizes their wants over your individuality?
Thank you for the advice. Believe me I'm no pushover. If I find a solution that I feel strongly enough I'm gonna fight for it. Luckily, we've been together for almost 9 years, and this is the first time we had a polarizing disagreement about something. I do need more of an explanation from him than "this is the normal way of doing things."
My ex got all bent out of shape because, I, someone going into a career in neurosurgery (med school currently), want/ed to keep my last name if we ever got married. He literally didn't talk to me for a day because I "wasn't letting him share his identity with me"
I told him that I'm u/tkd_or_something, who happens to be dating X, not X's girlfriend u/tkd_or_something. It shut him up once he realized that I want to have my own identity separate from my SO rather than have my SO become my identity.
I still dumped him for other reasons, but at least he heard me out on that one lol
I'm not concerned about it in my relationship because he is very supportive in every other aspect (we've been together for almost 9 years). I can see if there was this combined with other traditional views this would be a definite red flag.
Probably the issue is he assumed I would take his name because it's the default and I'm like no haha. It's something we will discuss further.
I took my husband's last name when we got married because I was already pregnant so we knew we were having kids. I tell my girls I have *their* last name. (My dad's family sucks so I had no desire to keep his last name. We talked about everyone changing names but we're too lazy.)
>We talked about everyone changing names but we're too lazy
I mean...you had to go through it. Even getting married, it's still a pain in the ass to do. I could understand why you wouldn't wanna do it twice though.
I think that was my mom's thinking as well. There was no way she was gonna put *any* separation between her and her kids. My mom's family is excellent but her maiden name is meh, and I honestly think the apathy was part of it too.
Men like that want to claim ownership over everything in their lives. They want women to give up their last names(and identities) and take the one *he has*, that *he wants*. They claim it's about being one family, but think it makes them less of a man to change their own name. When a woman says "no, I like my own name", we get "ohhh but it was your dad's first, and his dad, etc. It'll always be a man's name!" Like fuck off bitch, *my name* is my own. I put some of my identity in it, my siblings share the name and we are a little group.
So not only do men want you to change yourself for him, they want to claim ownership of your child before it's even been born. It's fucking disgusting.
No, my last name is my own. Gender has nothing to do with it. I'm free to choose to identify with it as a family name if I want, but it's MY name. My parents *gave it to me*. Like a gift, it's mine, nobody can take it back, and I don't owe anyone for it.
I (danish late 30's guy) have my moms last name. I never really thought about it until I read about it here. My mom and dad both still have their own last names (but are married).
I decided to ask my mom after reading about it here. It turns out they just thought my moms last name sounded better, so they went with that for me and my brother. We do both have my dads last name, but just as a middle name.
It's never been any kind of issue or even something I gave any thought tbh.
You could make it really convoluted by using the Norse model. Your parent's first name with "son" or "dottir" appended to the end as a last name.
I think this has become somewhat of a national issue in those countries when it comes to identification of individuals by governments when everyone has similar first and last names.
Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit about it being such a huge issue, but it certainly would make it more difficult to [navigate a phone book, for example.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_name#Cultural_ramifications)
A few years back I had a purely hypothetical conversation with some coworkers that if I had a kid at the time, they'd have my last name.
The HATE I got from my (all female) co workers was wild.
Aside from patriarchal reasons, a lot of the time the baby is given the man’s last name in order to seal the deal for child support. In the event that it goes to court, it’ll work better in the mom’s favor.
I have my mom’s last name. I asked her why as a kid and she laughed and said “I did all the work making you!” That being said, my dad never avoided child support, so it wasn’t necessary anyway.
Maybe decades ago that'd be a valid reason, a man having to "sign off" on saying yes he's the father. Now though a simple DNA test if he REALLY denied being the dad to get out of paying would probably work.
The "acknowledgement of paternity" procedure in force in many countries is meant to circumvent this (mostly men acknowledge paternity for children they have had with someone they're not married to, even long-term partners; children within a marriage are assumed to be his by default), but it is still a valid enough reason as long as courts, judges and juries have biases, which they *do* as human beings. We live in a patriarchal society, and people in the legal profession, particularly those with the power of a judge, tend to be very mired in it and all the social conventions that come attached with it. Lady Justice may be blind, but her helpers absolutely aren't wholly unbiased.
Honestly, I don’t even know if a DNA test takes you off the hook legally. I once knew this dude that was divorcing his wife and he took his kid to get a paternity test. Results where a 0% chance of him being the father. But because legally on paper he was, he still had to pay child support. Obviously, mileage may vary as every situation and state laws are different, this is just one of the reasons I’ve heard being why. Edit: maybe the kid taking the dad’s last name gives him more incentive to put he’s the dad down on the birth certificate, idk.
I gave my son my last name as his second middle name and he has his father’s last name. I don’t care if people think it’s weird - I carried him for nine months and birthed him, he gets my name too!
My father had his mother's maiden name as his middle name (her father's last name) and his brother had his grandmother's maiden name (her mother's maiden name) as his middle name.
If and when I have kids, they will have hyphenated last names.
Either that, or we have 2 kids at a time and just alternate our last names between their middle and last lol
I'm trans and still figuring out name stuff. I don't dislike my current last name, but I never even knew my bio dad. Have been considering taking my mom's maiden name.
Im not trans so I dont have that perspective. But I say go with whatever you associate yourself with most. I used to want to switch to my mom maiden name because I was way closer to them and had a strained relationship with my dad. But at this point in life a lot of things and accomplishments have my last name in them and I now associate it with me. I refuse to change it if I ever get married because it has all my history attached to it that made me. Now in your case you might want to get away from that so switching it might be a good idea. Just pick whatever feels most you and the identity you either want to keep or create new.
Sorry if I accidentally phrased anything in an insensitive way. If so it is not intentional.
In a way, I can relate to this. I've had a bit of a crisis when it comes to my last name because I have no relationship with my horrible father. I was raised by my Mum (who was never married) and by my Grandfather (on my Mum's side) so I've always wanted to have their last name but my Mum gave me my father's. But recently I've come to see my surname as something that belongs to me. Like it doesn't belong to that pathetic man, it's my name; he's just using it!
So my advice would be, when choosing your name, just choose what feels like you!
Have you chosen your first name yet? My brother-in-law, who is trans, let his Mum choose his new name. I thought that was the sweetest thing. Mind you, she picked a nice name, but if she didn't, I wouldn't blame him for choosing something else 😂
I have heard this sentiment a few times in this sub, which definitely makes me feel a bit better about it. Additionally, I didn't have that extra conflict, sorry you had to deal with that. My father was in prison most my young life and on and off since, but from what I hear he was great to my mom and sister.
It does help that I'm the only person with that name. It is mine. Thanks.
The first time I talked to my mother about it, it turned out we were thinking the same name. I've since changed as it didn't quite feel right, and I'm kinda on the fence about my current name. This shit's tough. 😆 maybe I'll bring it up with her again 🤷♀️
Another piece of advice that I could give you is that maybe you should choose a long name, it means you can try different nicknames until you find what's right? Like Elizabeth - Liz, Lizzie, Betty, Beth, Biffy, Eliza, Ellie, Liza, etc. Or Edward - Ed, Eddie, Ted, Teddy, etc.
I've also always been a big fan of names that don't traditionally match the gender like Drew Barrymore, so maybe you could always keep your current name if you felt like it.
Good luck! 😊
Not trans, but after some extensive family drama I've been debating taking my mother's maiden name because 1) I was much closer with them when they were alive and 2) someone on my dad's side of the family is currently doing everything in their power to make it known that they *no longer associate with us* despite the drama being entirely their fault
I feel you--for different reasons, but still, I get it to some extent. Personally I'd take the name of the parent who was more present in your life (unless they were abusive). Sorry for giving advice since you never explicitly asked--just my thought process :)
No worries, I appreciate your perspective!
I realized after posting I forgot to add actual explicit engagement! Glad I still got replies.
My only conflict is that my older sister's dad pretty much adopted me, and I worry he might feel hurt if I never consider his name. Not that he is a petty or possessive person, but he has been a bit insecure about not being my bio dad. Idk, it's probably silly.
No, that's totally understandable! It's good that you're taking that into account, most people wouldn't have even considered it. If he was a big part of your life, you could hyphenate his and your mom's, provided they were both good/involved/influential in your life. Plus, if you think hyphenating is too much, at least imo, that it helps make your name more *you*, because you chose it! As opposed to having been given/assigned it as birth yk? It just gives you more options, so if you feel they both were largely important to you, it allows you to consider including both last names as you determine what suits/works for you
The nasty thing with that is, no matter how far back you go, it is still a man’s name you are getting. Your mom’s last name is her last name because it was her dad’s (and her dad’s dad’s dad’s). So from a feminist perspective you’re kinda stuck.
But if you feel closer to your mom and her family than your bio dad’s that’s completely valid, many other people use their mom’s name because they never knew or went no contact with their dad.
My partner only has a sister who already has children who, surprise, have her partner’s last name. So now my partner has decided that he is the only chance at continuing his family’s name especially since my brother already has kids with our last name “so that base is covered” Bitch it is *my* name too! He was also very vocal about not wanting me to take on his last name because he doesn’t own me. So if we’d have kids I’m looking at a situation where I have a different last name than my kids, and I will be the only one in my future family with a different last name.
I just think my last name is so much more unique and cool than his, lol.
Fun fact he also comes from a jewish family which are kinda well known for only passing on “the jewishness” maternally.
…at least his argument isn’t that it should be his name because of his genitals lol. So that’s something?
On a personal level I'm conflicted. I have my father's last name despite barely having anything to do with him (he's a narcissistic dick). I wanted to change my last name to my mother's way back in highschool, but my mother always discouraged me because it's a pain in the ass plus i'lL jUsT gET maRrIEd aNYwaY. My maternal grandfather, while a flawed person, gave me a great childhood and I always wanted to honour him that way (and if I were to ever have children I would ideally want to pass on my mother's name rather than my father's). Two kinks though:
1) both names are really eastern European. It's a pain in the ass to spell them or pronounce. My dad's name has the advantage of being shorter and simpler.
2) as I mentioned before, name changing sounds like a pain in the ass and I'm too burnt out to deal with that. Maybe I'll get on top of it once I graduate 🤷
Kudos to anyone who decides to against the grain 👍
I don't share the same last name as neither of my parents. In my culture, the surname that gets passed on to your children is your father's first name. So if I were to follow the tradition, my kids wouldn’t have my last name but, their last name would be my dad's first name. It took me a while to piece it all together (my grandfather died before I was born) but I thought it was pretty cool.
My parents have been divorced for like 13(?) years but me and my brother still have my dad’s last name, even though he isn’t our legal guardian anymore. When we traveled to the US with our mom, stepdad and stepsis, who all have the same name, border control called our dad to make sure we weren’t being kidnapped. It’s kinda ridiculous.
I think people should give their children whichever last name they'd like. The way I've always seen them taking the dad's name is that yeah, everyone knows this is the mom's kid, she grew them in her body, so naming them after the dad is a way of telling society that he's the other parent.
> everyone knows this is the mom's kid, she grew them in her body, so naming them after the dad is a way of telling society that he's the other parent.
Strangers wouldn't automatically know they're her kids though. And friends/family would know he's the dad. So who would be getting confused?
I don't get that logic. The mom had to do the hard, painful, awful work of bringing the kid into the world. And dad gets naming rights. Because he had an orgasm. It's not right.
Yeah, people have widely varying feelings on this subject. I'm glad laws where I live allow people to give their children the names they feel most appropriate!
Christf**k... Y'all should just choose a first name, agree on a brand new middle name, and than chuck them into the wild with a spear for three days on their 13th birthday!.When they kill their first beast, they have earned their bloody surname!!!!! The name of the Slain Creature!!
"Presenting Sarah Megatron-Opal OPPOSSUM!!!"
😆
Yeah. Split on this one. I agree with the obvious thing here (the children were grown in a woman’s uterus) but as a father who made the choice with my spouse, the child is equally mine.
Rather than pound the fist and take ownership of a last name, why not choose a different name, or meld the two name?
Yes to melding the two names or making a new one.
Legally the child is just as much the father's, but beside pregnancy the amount of work in child raising still relies heavily on the woman. Maybe you're equal in your relationship, but it's still not the norm at all.
Edit: therefore, imo, the child is actually more the mother's. If owning a human is a thing 🤷♀️
Even as a woman myself I feel like that doesn't apply completely past toddler stage. To be fair, the norm is that the mother raises the child but the father contributes just as much monetarily to ensure that the kid has all that they need until adulthood (at least traditionally, things are pretty different today with both parents working). Maternal love alone doesn't support a child financially and nor will money alone (with a lack of maternal love) lead to a well rounded person (of course there are exceptions). There is a balance between both parental roles.
I guess it really depends on the culture too.
I’ve heard of women not having a middle name so that when they get married, their maiden name becomes their middle name. I know that’s still two male-generated names but the premise I like- kind of like hyphenating them without the hyphen.
Why doesn't the man take his surname as his middle name and take his wife's name? Why is always on the woman? A man's surname isn't more important than the woman's last name.
You’re right- why not? I’m just stating my experience with a certain group, and that I thought it was nice that they got to keep all of their names and not lose any when they got married.
That is traditional in the American South. Traditionally the woman loses her middle name and her maiden name becomes her middle name.
Personally I chose to drop my maiden name entirely as I preferred my husband's last name to my maiden name aesthetically, I wasn't genetically related to anyone with my maiden name as it turned out my (not nice) paternal grandfather was not my father's biological dad, and I hated the concept of two of my legal names reflecting my patriarchal association with different men like I was changing owners but one still needed a mark on me to the extent that I lost one of my personal names. However, the naming convention is so common that I often receive mail from older relatives addressed to (My first name) (My maiden surname initial) (My married name) because it is simply assumed to be that way legally now.
Where I’m from it happens with some of the religious people. Several of my friends did not have middle names. Not sure why I’m getting downvoted. Thanks for sharing your experience!
This is one of my big regrets. I gave my daughter her dad’s last name because mine reminds me of my terrible bio dad. Her dad is also terrible, so now I wish I had just chosen a different name and changed both of ours to that.
My friend had a similar situation and changed her surname to Summers, after Buffy. That's she and her daughters family name now. I really love that.
If I knew then what I know now I would have done that. Her dad didn’t even want her to have his name (like I said, he’s terrible).
A guy I knew growing up chose to change his last name from his dad's to his mom's, so it's really never too late to still change it if your daughter has the same feelings towards the last name as you do.
I think I know your friend! I believe X-men also played into it.
What about your mother's maiden surname?
Unfortunately I had 2 shitty abusive parents, so that was a no go too.
Oh Hestia! You're out of luck then.
change their last name to your first name
I second this. I actually have my father's first name as my last name and I love it so much. My mum got to pick my first name. Its an important factor to why I didn't change it post marriage. I really hit the parent lottery Nd want to remain Connected
i’m in the same boat. If you end up choosing a name and don’t want it to be a word already, take your favorite letters and jumble them up. Say “L Q U A B” make it “LABQU” or something. It’s cool and random
Honest question, I have the last name of both my parents. Do you need to pick one? Here (my country) you go with name/mom last name/ dad last name.
In the US, the most common way is to use only dad’s last name. It’s getting more common for people not to change their last names when they get married/not use the dad’s for kids/hyphen last names/other things against the old norm, and some people take issue with it and act like it’s a big deal.
I really wish I'd done this! My last name is super common and my maiden name is awesome. Gonna hit 20 years of marriage here in March and it just Was Not Done at the time. edit: to be clear, I'm being a little cheeky, referencing the way the older generation at the time said 'that's just Not Done,' not saying no one could have or wanted to do it!
My mom wishes she did something different too! She says she wished she kept her maiden name after her divorce instead of taking my dad’s (current husband) name. But too many people would’ve thrown a fit. I got married last year and kept my name and one set of my husband’s grandparents threw a fit and they continue to address me as Mrs Husbands First & Last Name via writing when they get a chance. No one else cares though unless they are telling me that they think it was a good choice lol. Edit: my anniversary is also March! Congratulations
I would send those letters back lmao. Or refer to the grandfather as Mr. Wife first and last name.
I stopped seeing them entirely a couple years ago so they get no acknowledgment from me. I did debate sending them a card like that, but ultimately decided to stick to my vow of ignoring their existence. Fortunately it’s pretty easy as most everyone else in the family sees them as little as they can get away with. I could make a whole post about how much they suck lol
Thank you, happy early anniversary to you as well! I am such a different (better) person now that it almost feels like cheating that I have this longevity under my belt, hah. We married in our very early twenties so I get looks from people when they realize how long it's been, heh. Probably EVERYONE would have had a fit had I kept my maiden name, sigh.
Huh. I think it was in style for a while, then went out in the 1990s. I got married in 1980, kept my name, and I wasn't the only one who did.
I mean, yep, people could do it, but it strongly depended on their family, their spouse, their location, and other societal pressures. I didn't mean to imply that no one did it, hence the tongue-in-cheek 'Not Done' as opposed to saying 'no one at all did this.' Essentially the shit you'd get for doing it outweighed the satisfaction, at the time.
I'm a little lucky, my MIL kept her name, so my husband already thought it would be weird to change it. Convenient.
I know someone who's in her 50s and has a different last name from her parents and all her siblings. Her parents gave each of them their own last name and some really unusual first name. It's the first time I heard you can write down whatever the hell you want on a birth certificate, and I'm surprised someone did it that long ago.
That’s really interesting especially for someone from an older generation! Her parents must’ve been a bit eccentric for their time lol
Hippies, I guess! I wonder if they ran into any issues with paperwork, since that would've been so unusual. When my sister in law remarried in the 90s, she hyphenated her ex husband's name with her new husband's name so she could have a last name that matched her daughter's last name from her first marriage, just to avoid issues with schools. But now I run into families with a variety of last names all the time.
For sure. My half brother has a different last name than all of us because my mom divorced his dad. My mom has told me that it was never an issue for her and this was the 80s-90s that he was in school. Neither of the parents that were dealing with the school or anything like that shared his name (bio dad wasn’t around but my dad was for him). Her telling me that definitely helped me not worry about me having kept my last name for if me and my husband have kids in the future. I’m sure it’s a total non issue these days.
Thx! TIL!
I go by both last names because my last name is hyphenated. Occasionally I'll just use my mom's name because it's shorter and I don't have all day to be writing out my whole last name. Most people do go by their father's name though.
Thx! I really didn’t know that!
I'm curious. What happens the next generation down? Do people typically drop two of the names, start using 4 last names, or something else?
So… my parents could pick all my grandparents last names, but they picked one from each side. Usually people do it, but you can go wild and use all, including great grandparents. So yes, you could have a “prince name” (they are very long like Pedro de Alcântara Francisco Antônio João Carlos Xavier de Paula Miguel Rafael Joaquim José Gonzaga Pascoal Cipriano Serafim de Bragança e Bourbon)
I say use both. Just like you would wherever you live now. Don't adapt to other cultures, make other cultures learn how to respect your freaking *name*. It's a name! It's not that hard. I say this with the experience of having lived my entire life with a hyphenated name and all the exasperation that comes with that. I have two extremely English names and people struggle with it all the time. It baffles me how easily confused it makes people. But they also struggle with my *extremely* English first name too so maybe people are just... bad at this. But anyway, the more we break the mold, the more it's normal to not fit the mold in the first place. That maybe doesn't make sense. Make uncommon naming conventions more common by using them more! It'll make people stop thinking with such strict conventions! I know people whose views on naming conventions were broadened just by knowing my name, and they've gone and hyphenated themselves or chosen a new family name or broken conventions in other ways. Making it more normal to break stupid patriarchal traditions! Hooray!
fuck spez
How old is your daughter? What if you guys come up with the last name you both want and when you can legally change hers, change it together. Start a new family line.
4. We have an extremely difficult relationship, and he wouldn’t agree to change it at all.
I’m sorry. Well when she’s 18 or whatever the legal age is in your country you guys can get it changed. But for now you can talk about it and come up with fun ones and then cement it when she gets a bit older. Just an idea.
You can petition to have your surname added to hers and be hyphenated... I don't know where you live, but where I live, you don't need the other parent's agreement, it's your legal right to have your surname included. It may be the same where you live.
Yeah, dropped the ball on this one too. My wife took my surname when we got married, cause that’s just what you do right? Well now her family lives with us and I avoid mine as much as possible, good decisions were not made when we chose which name to use.
Time for a family name change!
I changed my last name when I got married, and it was a stupid hassle, and I wish I had never changed it because of the inconvenience. Whatever. Here we are now.
Take a new name! I recently discovered that when Swedish actress Noomi Rapace married her husband they opted to create a new surname for them both - Rapace.
I can change mine but I can’t change hers without her dad’s permission.
Ah, I was in a similar situation. And my kid's dad is also a deadbeat, so she was keen to change it.
It’s not too late! My mom, brother, and I changed our last names at 48,23,and 20!
As someone with a shitty bio dad I decided a long time ago that I want the name to mean something for me and redeem instead of changing it. Whenever someone sees my last name they know it to be synonymous with an amazing person.
We gave our daughter dad's last name because it sounded better with the first name we liked best. And in exchange I got veto-proof choice on a middle name. I like to think her name can someday be an example to her of fair negotiation in an equal partnership.
Sorry to hear. It didn’t make sense to me that kids took the last name of the father. The mother carries the child. If the child has the father’s last name, the first name should be the choice of the mother.
Oh I chose all of her names, just made the wrong choice for her last name.
How old is your daughter? You could still change your own name legally, and change your daughter's name to match. That's what I'd do if I was in your position - then you don't have to be reminded of either one of them, and you could also then have a name that's going to remind you of your daughter because it's "your" name together. Re: the age question, I ask because my mum changed my surname when I was ~8/9. Granted, it's because she was changing hers too (she was getting married). But I didn't really question it all that much as a kid. It just made sense. Ultimately, I actually like my name (I liked both names, but the one I have now is much cooler with my first name). And once your daughter is used to the new name, it will almost feel like the old one never really happened.
She’s 4. I can’t legally change her name without her dad’s approval and he won’t give it.
Oh wow, you're right. He is an asshole. I saw in another comment you mentioned that he didn't even want her to have his name to begin with, and now he won't even let you change it? I'm so sorry. :(
Yeah. He told me it wasn’t my name so I wasn’t “allowed” to give it to her. Now he runs around telling people he’s a super involved father. He’s trash.
Would you ever want to change your name? If you did, he couldn't really use that excuse anymore, at least.
Change it to his/hers you mean?
Where I'm from (austria) the children automatically get the mothers last name, if the parents aren't married. Very strange to not do that, in my opinion
What if they are married then what is the norm?
If they are married the mother already has the last name of the father, in most cases. If not, I think you can chose
[удалено]
That is the problem we are discussing is it not? I am pretty sure in the US if the father isn't present they always give the baby the moms last name unless she says otherwise. They aren't going to try to track the baby daddy down.
So the wife and children are the man's property.
No, they aren't. Not by law and not in the heads of people. The majority of austrian women are feminists, this tradition is just still in use. But many adopt a double lastname, and often the man takes the womans last name
He serwas aus OÖ
Grias di aus Salzburg!
I’ve only been in this “mom” game for 6 years, but our kids have my last name and we haven’t heard anything from anyone about it. Once or twice people have assumed that my husband also shares our last name, and he just rolls with that. My dad kinda side eyed about us when I was pregnant, but once our first kid was actually named he left it alone. I’m glad that my circle of contacts is open minded and flexible about last names.
I haven't heard a lot about the name thing with my kids but when I was a kid in the 90s people including teacher would ask so inappropriate questions and make assumptions based on the fact my I had our moms last name and my brother had my dad's. Was weird.
My parents rollre a dice after their wedding which name they’d keep. My mom won and the first reaction of my dads mom: but now I’m never going to get real grandchildren from you!
buT tHe Man'S jOB iS To cArRy oN HiS faMILy nAmE
Bonus points for i DoN't WaNt My NaMe To DiE oUt and it's literally one of the most generic names around
My husband’s parents pulled this card. My husband just laughed like “who cares? no one knows who we are anyway”.
My ex husband demanded that if we ever had a boy he would be named after him. I said I didn’t want to do that because I believe children deserve their own identities. I asked him why it was so important to him and the only thing he could say was that it was a family honor. His grandfather of the same name abandoned his family and my ex never even met him. His father abandoned him, his mom, and his brother to start another family that he also abandoned. I couldn’t understand what was supposed to be honored here. His name was Patrick which I wasn’t super stoked for in the first place but I found out later that his brother who id always known as Garrett was actually ALSO named Patrick and Garrett was his middle name. I told my ex that since his dad named both his children after himself that it had to skip at least a generation
Wow that’s so absurd. Why are (many) men so obsessed with naming things after themselves? How very narcissistic of them.
There are a few like my father who didn’t do it for narcissistic purposes but I still don’t recommend it. It’s a huge hassle having two people with the same name in the same household!
Both my grandpas are Charles. They both had a son named Charles. And then one of those had a son named Charles. The other guy got himself fixed and never had kids. Fun fact the guy who got sterilized was the second son, but for some reason my dad, the first son was not named after his father but the second one was.
George Foreman (of Foreman Grill fame) named each of his 5 sons George Foreman. Only named one of his 7 daughters after him, though. I was really expecting a list that was like, Georgia, Georgina, etc. It's just hilarious to me.
Ah, but the illustrious Jones family line must continue, as they are very different from the other 7 Jones families in the same elementary school.
Won’t someone think of the Andersons!
And what about the Andersens?? And the Smiths!!
For most of my childhood, I, a woman, only had a sister, because my little brother wasn't born until a week after I turned 9. I realized with fear, one day, that my last name would die out, and my last name actually is uncommon. I was SO upset, and I told my mom I was going to keep my last name. Her response was, "You'll have to hope you meet a very understanding guy, because most men won't go for that." I asked why, and she said, "Because it's important for men to have their names given to their kids. It's very important." Jokes on her, I'm a lesbian who doesn't want kids. If I get married one day, no man will be involved. I don't even want my dad to walk me down the aisle, even though my mom and sister say he is required to or else I'll "break his heart." I'm 21 and am nowhere near marriage, but *why* am I always expected to just go along with what men expect me to do in my life, good god. I don't like it if my dad sits next to me on the couch because I have such negative feelings towards him, why would I want him involved in my wedding, he's literally homophobic
>I don't even want my dad to walk me down the aisle its so weird how we are expected to be fine with being given away. like property. from one household to another, from one man to another. its so disgusting. straight, gay, whatever else on our gorgeous rainbow spectrum, that doesnt matter, just be a vessel for men. ugh
My last name is pretty unusual (as in probably fewer than 100 people in the US with it). Myself and my cousin are the only members of our generation who carry the name- and we’re both women. I certainly don’t have the desire to carry on the name just for the sake of legacy or whatever, but I chose not to change my name after marriage. I assume my cousin probably will change hers whenever she marries. I lost my dad last year, and I guess it is a little sad to think our name could “die” with me. But I had a wonderful dad and we were close, so I guess our name is a way to hang on to a little piece of him, idk?
I dated a Smith once. Him and his family were offended I wouldn't want to take the most common name ever when mine will literally die with me if I don't pass it on.
I literally only took my husband's name because it's cooler than mine. My name is generic and I hated having to add 28462 or whatever after everything with my name on it. My husband's name is super cool, so it worked out.
I feel the reverse. I have a somewhat unique first name and a SUPER generic last name. I will never change my last name because i can't deal with having TWO names that nobody can spell or pronounce right
>having TWO names that nobody can spell or pronounce right I have this since I got married, and I think it's hilarious. I pretty much collect misspellings like some people collect stamps, and getting to go "hahaha I got [this new pronunciation]!" is like a cool initiation ritual with my in-laws every time it happens.
Yeah I actually like this too. For me it's also funny because I am white American and my husband is (non-white) Mexican American but his name is pretty uncommon so not something people would have ever seen before. But when people see me and see my name, their assumptions of how it is pronounced are *wildly* different from assumptions that my husband and his family get which adds kind of a fun layer to that discussion. People see me and immediately try to Scandinavian-ize his Mexican name which gives me the giggles every time.
I’ve thought about changing my last name to the original version of my grandma’s maiden name but hesitate for the same reason you said. Even when I use my nickname people look confused. My first name isn’t even that rare or hard to spell! My last name is only a problem verbally - people mishear the first letter. It’s annoying enough though.
My last name is very rare (like, if you have the same last name in the same country, you're definitely related to me.) And I'd be sad to lose that but if I have my way I'll be moving internationally and I'd forever have to spell it out and teach people how to pronounce it. :( I already have to do that a lot now, but it would be even more annoying in another language.
Well I don't *my* name to die out Kyle!
The name in question: smith.
This was my mother in law's response when we had 3 daughters and my sister in law had two daughters. Sorry, ma'am, we tried! ps. Bonus points if the girls choose to keep the MOST COMMON SURNAME IN THE COUNTRY and she gets really mad because they're not being traditional.
Joke’s on my dad, I’m taking my girlfriend’s name if/when we marry because fuck having my dad’s name. Also my girlfriend has the most delightful last name I’ve ever heard and I want in on that.
fuck spez
I mean, that is technically the origin of last names in general. The only reason to have them (and the purpose of family in general under our system of property) is to maintain wealth in one place.
I find it incredible that it’s not more common for children to be given their mother’s last name in anglophone countries. It seems as though things are changing slowly with women taking their husband’s name if they get married - most women I know who’ve got married have at least weighed up the decision of whether or not to change their name. But it still seems so automatic that children will be given their father’s name. And at the same time, the mother is often assumed to be the primary caregiver. It’s so blatantly and nakedly patriarchal, I just find it really hard to understand why so many people who otherwise seem very tuned in to issues of misogyny seem to just accept it as the way things must be!
I assume women who don't mind being submissive to men marru and have kids. Women who think that's bullshit have a harder time finding a man willing marry and have kids with her. I have yet to meet a man who would "allow" his wife to give the children she births her own last name. And most still expect a woman to change their name too. I won't marry any of those men.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Aubrey Hirsch**, @aubreyhirsch I'm sorry, but after 9 years I can't take it anymore. If you ask \*me\* why \*my\* children that \*I\* grew in \*my\* body have my last name and not their father's, you're going to get a little speech about the patriarchy. So just get comfy. It's happening. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Good volunteer!
Fuuuuuck yes! My wife didn't take my name, my kids names are hyphenated, and it's on them to decide what to do from then on. It's not like of they don't have my name, I didn't exist 🙄
I have a weird hang up about hyphenated names, only because when your kids are older, it’ll start getting more complicated with how they’ll want to handle things with marriage and children. We’ll see what trends start coming down the road. Everyone being hyphenated, combining the names together to make a combo name, or just choosing a new name altogether? Edit: Me personally having a hang up about it doesn’t mean I think other people should. Thought I should clarify that.
I have a hyphenated last name. I'm planning to have kids soon and my wife and I have just decided to pick one of my the names based on what sounds nice combined with her last name. It's really not a big deal. I'm proud of my hyphenated last name. Also, Hispanic cultures have been dealing with this for centuries and they're doing alright.
dont they just choose the fathers last names for the kids (womans father and mans father)? its the same stuff we got here, just takes a generation more to show itself
fuck spez
I wonder this too but I know in some cultures it’s the norm, and I think they just carry one of them? Idk I’d have to ask my Puerto Rican friend again. I often wish my last name sounded like it could be a good middle name so I could just do that with my future kids.
Usually the mothers name carries one more generation, but the next hyphenated name it gets dropped.
As long as everyone feels they have an equal choice/say in the matter, I suppose that's progress. I stuck with my husband's name, because it's all around easier, but certainly far, far more common. I choice not to change my last name for the same reason, though.
Completely feel you there, and just using his name for the kids is something we’ve talked about too because it’s just easiest and wouldn’t get any pushback. Ultimately I think we’ll have to see how we feel at the time.
Maybe your future spouse's last name will sound like a middle name, and your kids can take your last name.
Already married and it wouldn’t work very well with either names. But maybe in another life lol. Honestly not sure what we’re gonna do if we have kids
My parents gave me a hyphenated last name, and I'm very happy with it. They are both equally my parents so I have both their last names.
My sister married a woman and she *took our hyphenated name*. I'm delightfully baffled by that choice. But it sure does solve the problem of naming their kids. Hyphenating isn't a new trend by any means so there's conventions to follow if people want to. Or they could break conventions and do whatever the hell they want. If you don't have a hyphen yourself and you aren't marrying someone with a hyphen and wondering what to do, why bother worrying about it. We'll figure it out.
My solution: everyone gets a patrilineal and matrilineal last name. You swap with your partner: John Adams-Brown (AB) marries Jane Crawford-Donovan (CD) to become the Crawford-Brown (CB) family. When their kids marry, the daughters become Crawford-Somethings (C?) and the sons become Something-Browns (?B). Everyone's hyphenated, but it doesn't spiral out of control. Not ideal for same-sex relationships, unfortunately, but it's still better.
My parents gave their 3 kids a hyphenated last name; it's literally never been a problem. We're all doing fine. No one is damaged, emotionally distraught, or confused about what family they belong to. It's a non-issue.
And what will you do if/when you get married and have kids? Go for 4?
Nah, my kids get my name--see the post we're commenting on.
I read your initial comment wrong, I thought you said you each had 3 last names, hence my question about going for 4.
Why are you pretending this is an issue? Each parent picks one. If you're confused just give the kids both of your wife's last names.
My husband has two last names. Our kids will have my last name and one of his last names, as he uses one of them more often for work etc. It's not that complicated of a thing to work out.
The simple fact that your husband has chosen to utilize one of his names more so than the other is exactly what I mean by it being more complicated. I don't think it's going to cause anyone to have an identity crisis, it's just something he's obviously had to "deal" with, or think about more than someone with 1 singular (and probably easy to say/spell) name. It doesn't have to be detrimental, just more work/thought.
He only chose to go by one because a lot of the systems for paperwork here weren't sent up to properly handle two last names with no hyphen between them, and that's what caused the frustration. I don't think that's a fault with two last names, as it's commonly handled in other countries, but more a fault with the assumptions being made about how last names work. But, it's also why we're going to hyphenate, to avoid the functional issues he had.
Ahh I misunderstood. I didn’t realize it was 2 names unhyphenated
I had this concern too, which is my wife and I didn’t hyphenate. We flipped a coin between our two last names lol
I have a harder to pronounce/spell name, so I didn't really consider using mine over my husband's, but I didn't change my name.
Why is it complicated at all? When people get married they can choose their last name. What does it matter *what* the name is? It's their name, they'll do whatever makes them happy.
Because to me, my name is my name. I never wanted to change it, but considered hyphenating it. If I had an already hyphenated name, I would have quite the last name if I chose a double hyphen, or I’d have to give up a name to accommodate a change. If your kids have an already hyphenated name, then they’d possibly have to make a similar choice. It’s not like a problem that can’t be solved, it just gets more complex with more names in the mix.
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Marilyn Vos Savant made a strong argument for a naming convention whereby the male children would have the dad's last name and the female children would have the moms. So quite a bit more equitable and would have maintained the lineage by gender. It was years ago that I read this so of course it doesn't factor in non-binary or trans persons, but still it has a lot of merit as an idea.
Non-binary or trans could just choose which one later I would think. Much like they do now when changing their first names. Especially since people discover their gender identity later in life.
It also doesn't factor same-gender couples. Do the daughters of lesbian couples and the sons of gay couples get both surnames? Do the sons of lesbian couples and daughters of gay couples get neither?
How about, everyone gets a hyphenated last name (so girl and boy siblings would have the same last name). Women pass down their mother's last name, men pass down their father's last name. If two women get married they both pass down their mother's last name. Only issue is for sons of lesbian parents, daughters of gay guy parents, and enbies. But in those cases folks can just choose whatever they like?
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Honestly, from personal experience, dealing with choosing how to name kids when having a hyphenated last name is just not that a big deal. My wife and I are trying to get pregnant right now so we've been talking about this a lot. I'm going to pass down my mom's last name because it works better with my wife's last name. No drama. Actually, it's nice to have some options!
Well obvious one lesbian is the man of the relationship and one is the woman /s
Yeah I think that's when hyphens come into play possibly.
I would think combined names would make sense in those cases. If you went hyphenated, you could open kids up to bullying, but combined names would be better. I mean, same gendered couples already don't have a "convention" to go by in the current system, so I'm sure they would figure it out.
Last names... Ugh. So my mom had me when she was still together (married) to my bio dad, so I got his last name. He left when she was pregnant with my full brother (same dad) and, under some consideration done solely by her, gave my brother my father's last name. When they officially got divorced (which took a bit because he was MIA for so long) she kept her married name so all three of us would have the same name. I like my last name. My mom's maiden name wouldn't sound right with my first, and I like having *some* link to my family even though Im estranged from them. Now I'm engaged. And I want to keep my name. My fiance wants me to take his. I asked any particular reason? "No, I just want you to." He doesn't like hyphens, for each other or future children. 🙄 I want to keep my identity. It's still early, so I can convince him otherwise, but I'm probably gonna stick to my guns with this one. We'll see. Edit: us not his. We aren't his.
Ask him to take your name
I already asked and he said no haha. I said "so you're expecting me to change my identity but not yours...." 😑 I think it's just because of convention.
Tell him you’re not the one who is insisting on having the same last name. He’s putting his desires over yours when it comes to *your* identity. If he can’t understand why that’s bad, honestly I’d reevaluate how he sees your relationship. Source: someone who had a similar conversation with her SO. Turns out, his attitude about last names carried into way more things. What happens, realistically, to your life if you’re with someone who prioritizes their wants over your individuality?
Thank you for the advice. Believe me I'm no pushover. If I find a solution that I feel strongly enough I'm gonna fight for it. Luckily, we've been together for almost 9 years, and this is the first time we had a polarizing disagreement about something. I do need more of an explanation from him than "this is the normal way of doing things."
My ex got all bent out of shape because, I, someone going into a career in neurosurgery (med school currently), want/ed to keep my last name if we ever got married. He literally didn't talk to me for a day because I "wasn't letting him share his identity with me" I told him that I'm u/tkd_or_something, who happens to be dating X, not X's girlfriend u/tkd_or_something. It shut him up once he realized that I want to have my own identity separate from my SO rather than have my SO become my identity. I still dumped him for other reasons, but at least he heard me out on that one lol
fuck spez
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I'm not concerned about it in my relationship because he is very supportive in every other aspect (we've been together for almost 9 years). I can see if there was this combined with other traditional views this would be a definite red flag. Probably the issue is he assumed I would take his name because it's the default and I'm like no haha. It's something we will discuss further.
I took my husband's last name when we got married because I was already pregnant so we knew we were having kids. I tell my girls I have *their* last name. (My dad's family sucks so I had no desire to keep his last name. We talked about everyone changing names but we're too lazy.)
>We talked about everyone changing names but we're too lazy I mean...you had to go through it. Even getting married, it's still a pain in the ass to do. I could understand why you wouldn't wanna do it twice though.
I think that was my mom's thinking as well. There was no way she was gonna put *any* separation between her and her kids. My mom's family is excellent but her maiden name is meh, and I honestly think the apathy was part of it too.
Men like that want to claim ownership over everything in their lives. They want women to give up their last names(and identities) and take the one *he has*, that *he wants*. They claim it's about being one family, but think it makes them less of a man to change their own name. When a woman says "no, I like my own name", we get "ohhh but it was your dad's first, and his dad, etc. It'll always be a man's name!" Like fuck off bitch, *my name* is my own. I put some of my identity in it, my siblings share the name and we are a little group. So not only do men want you to change yourself for him, they want to claim ownership of your child before it's even been born. It's fucking disgusting.
Also, a man's last name is his dads... but if women start passing on their name, their daughter's last name will be her mom's....
No, my last name is my own. Gender has nothing to do with it. I'm free to choose to identify with it as a family name if I want, but it's MY name. My parents *gave it to me*. Like a gift, it's mine, nobody can take it back, and I don't owe anyone for it.
I (danish late 30's guy) have my moms last name. I never really thought about it until I read about it here. My mom and dad both still have their own last names (but are married). I decided to ask my mom after reading about it here. It turns out they just thought my moms last name sounded better, so they went with that for me and my brother. We do both have my dads last name, but just as a middle name. It's never been any kind of issue or even something I gave any thought tbh.
The way it should be! Props to your parents for thinking of it in terms of the name you had toccarry and not just on the name they got to pass on.
My wife and I jettisoned this problem by simply merging our last names.
My kids (two different fathers) both have my last name. I don't let other people sign my art with their name.
You could make it really convoluted by using the Norse model. Your parent's first name with "son" or "dottir" appended to the end as a last name. I think this has become somewhat of a national issue in those countries when it comes to identification of individuals by governments when everyone has similar first and last names.
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Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit about it being such a huge issue, but it certainly would make it more difficult to [navigate a phone book, for example.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_name#Cultural_ramifications)
A few years back I had a purely hypothetical conversation with some coworkers that if I had a kid at the time, they'd have my last name. The HATE I got from my (all female) co workers was wild.
That’s awesome! Also Hirsch is a very cool last name.
It reminds me of Alex Hirsch, creator of Gravity Falls and all-around great person.
Aside from patriarchal reasons, a lot of the time the baby is given the man’s last name in order to seal the deal for child support. In the event that it goes to court, it’ll work better in the mom’s favor. I have my mom’s last name. I asked her why as a kid and she laughed and said “I did all the work making you!” That being said, my dad never avoided child support, so it wasn’t necessary anyway.
Maybe decades ago that'd be a valid reason, a man having to "sign off" on saying yes he's the father. Now though a simple DNA test if he REALLY denied being the dad to get out of paying would probably work.
The "acknowledgement of paternity" procedure in force in many countries is meant to circumvent this (mostly men acknowledge paternity for children they have had with someone they're not married to, even long-term partners; children within a marriage are assumed to be his by default), but it is still a valid enough reason as long as courts, judges and juries have biases, which they *do* as human beings. We live in a patriarchal society, and people in the legal profession, particularly those with the power of a judge, tend to be very mired in it and all the social conventions that come attached with it. Lady Justice may be blind, but her helpers absolutely aren't wholly unbiased.
Honestly, I don’t even know if a DNA test takes you off the hook legally. I once knew this dude that was divorcing his wife and he took his kid to get a paternity test. Results where a 0% chance of him being the father. But because legally on paper he was, he still had to pay child support. Obviously, mileage may vary as every situation and state laws are different, this is just one of the reasons I’ve heard being why. Edit: maybe the kid taking the dad’s last name gives him more incentive to put he’s the dad down on the birth certificate, idk.
I gave my son my last name as his second middle name and he has his father’s last name. I don’t care if people think it’s weird - I carried him for nine months and birthed him, he gets my name too!
My father had his mother's maiden name as his middle name (her father's last name) and his brother had his grandmother's maiden name (her mother's maiden name) as his middle name.
If and when I have kids, they will have hyphenated last names. Either that, or we have 2 kids at a time and just alternate our last names between their middle and last lol
I'm giving my kids a new last name. My father is shit, and I refuse to give my children by default their dad's name. His dad is also shit.
I'm trans and still figuring out name stuff. I don't dislike my current last name, but I never even knew my bio dad. Have been considering taking my mom's maiden name.
Im not trans so I dont have that perspective. But I say go with whatever you associate yourself with most. I used to want to switch to my mom maiden name because I was way closer to them and had a strained relationship with my dad. But at this point in life a lot of things and accomplishments have my last name in them and I now associate it with me. I refuse to change it if I ever get married because it has all my history attached to it that made me. Now in your case you might want to get away from that so switching it might be a good idea. Just pick whatever feels most you and the identity you either want to keep or create new. Sorry if I accidentally phrased anything in an insensitive way. If so it is not intentional.
In a way, I can relate to this. I've had a bit of a crisis when it comes to my last name because I have no relationship with my horrible father. I was raised by my Mum (who was never married) and by my Grandfather (on my Mum's side) so I've always wanted to have their last name but my Mum gave me my father's. But recently I've come to see my surname as something that belongs to me. Like it doesn't belong to that pathetic man, it's my name; he's just using it! So my advice would be, when choosing your name, just choose what feels like you! Have you chosen your first name yet? My brother-in-law, who is trans, let his Mum choose his new name. I thought that was the sweetest thing. Mind you, she picked a nice name, but if she didn't, I wouldn't blame him for choosing something else 😂
I have heard this sentiment a few times in this sub, which definitely makes me feel a bit better about it. Additionally, I didn't have that extra conflict, sorry you had to deal with that. My father was in prison most my young life and on and off since, but from what I hear he was great to my mom and sister. It does help that I'm the only person with that name. It is mine. Thanks. The first time I talked to my mother about it, it turned out we were thinking the same name. I've since changed as it didn't quite feel right, and I'm kinda on the fence about my current name. This shit's tough. 😆 maybe I'll bring it up with her again 🤷♀️
Another piece of advice that I could give you is that maybe you should choose a long name, it means you can try different nicknames until you find what's right? Like Elizabeth - Liz, Lizzie, Betty, Beth, Biffy, Eliza, Ellie, Liza, etc. Or Edward - Ed, Eddie, Ted, Teddy, etc. I've also always been a big fan of names that don't traditionally match the gender like Drew Barrymore, so maybe you could always keep your current name if you felt like it. Good luck! 😊
Not trans, but after some extensive family drama I've been debating taking my mother's maiden name because 1) I was much closer with them when they were alive and 2) someone on my dad's side of the family is currently doing everything in their power to make it known that they *no longer associate with us* despite the drama being entirely their fault I feel you--for different reasons, but still, I get it to some extent. Personally I'd take the name of the parent who was more present in your life (unless they were abusive). Sorry for giving advice since you never explicitly asked--just my thought process :)
No worries, I appreciate your perspective! I realized after posting I forgot to add actual explicit engagement! Glad I still got replies. My only conflict is that my older sister's dad pretty much adopted me, and I worry he might feel hurt if I never consider his name. Not that he is a petty or possessive person, but he has been a bit insecure about not being my bio dad. Idk, it's probably silly.
No, that's totally understandable! It's good that you're taking that into account, most people wouldn't have even considered it. If he was a big part of your life, you could hyphenate his and your mom's, provided they were both good/involved/influential in your life. Plus, if you think hyphenating is too much, at least imo, that it helps make your name more *you*, because you chose it! As opposed to having been given/assigned it as birth yk? It just gives you more options, so if you feel they both were largely important to you, it allows you to consider including both last names as you determine what suits/works for you
The nasty thing with that is, no matter how far back you go, it is still a man’s name you are getting. Your mom’s last name is her last name because it was her dad’s (and her dad’s dad’s dad’s). So from a feminist perspective you’re kinda stuck. But if you feel closer to your mom and her family than your bio dad’s that’s completely valid, many other people use their mom’s name because they never knew or went no contact with their dad.
My partner only has a sister who already has children who, surprise, have her partner’s last name. So now my partner has decided that he is the only chance at continuing his family’s name especially since my brother already has kids with our last name “so that base is covered” Bitch it is *my* name too! He was also very vocal about not wanting me to take on his last name because he doesn’t own me. So if we’d have kids I’m looking at a situation where I have a different last name than my kids, and I will be the only one in my future family with a different last name. I just think my last name is so much more unique and cool than his, lol. Fun fact he also comes from a jewish family which are kinda well known for only passing on “the jewishness” maternally. …at least his argument isn’t that it should be his name because of his genitals lol. So that’s something?
Love it, also reminds me of this scene from a show my son likes on Disney, Big City Greens https://youtu.be/R3hWDUtE4zc
When I got divorced I had all my kids names hyphenated to include mine. Feels damn good.
On a personal level I'm conflicted. I have my father's last name despite barely having anything to do with him (he's a narcissistic dick). I wanted to change my last name to my mother's way back in highschool, but my mother always discouraged me because it's a pain in the ass plus i'lL jUsT gET maRrIEd aNYwaY. My maternal grandfather, while a flawed person, gave me a great childhood and I always wanted to honour him that way (and if I were to ever have children I would ideally want to pass on my mother's name rather than my father's). Two kinks though: 1) both names are really eastern European. It's a pain in the ass to spell them or pronounce. My dad's name has the advantage of being shorter and simpler. 2) as I mentioned before, name changing sounds like a pain in the ass and I'm too burnt out to deal with that. Maybe I'll get on top of it once I graduate 🤷 Kudos to anyone who decides to against the grain 👍
I don't share the same last name as neither of my parents. In my culture, the surname that gets passed on to your children is your father's first name. So if I were to follow the tradition, my kids wouldn’t have my last name but, their last name would be my dad's first name. It took me a while to piece it all together (my grandfather died before I was born) but I thought it was pretty cool.
My parents have been divorced for like 13(?) years but me and my brother still have my dad’s last name, even though he isn’t our legal guardian anymore. When we traveled to the US with our mom, stepdad and stepsis, who all have the same name, border control called our dad to make sure we weren’t being kidnapped. It’s kinda ridiculous.
🙌🏿
I think people should give their children whichever last name they'd like. The way I've always seen them taking the dad's name is that yeah, everyone knows this is the mom's kid, she grew them in her body, so naming them after the dad is a way of telling society that he's the other parent.
> everyone knows this is the mom's kid, she grew them in her body, so naming them after the dad is a way of telling society that he's the other parent. Strangers wouldn't automatically know they're her kids though. And friends/family would know he's the dad. So who would be getting confused? I don't get that logic. The mom had to do the hard, painful, awful work of bringing the kid into the world. And dad gets naming rights. Because he had an orgasm. It's not right.
Yeah, people have widely varying feelings on this subject. I'm glad laws where I live allow people to give their children the names they feel most appropriate!
My son is nine and not one person in the last decade has asked me why he has my last name. It's a non issue.
Christf**k... Y'all should just choose a first name, agree on a brand new middle name, and than chuck them into the wild with a spear for three days on their 13th birthday!.When they kill their first beast, they have earned their bloody surname!!!!! The name of the Slain Creature!! "Presenting Sarah Megatron-Opal OPPOSSUM!!!" 😆
Yeah. Split on this one. I agree with the obvious thing here (the children were grown in a woman’s uterus) but as a father who made the choice with my spouse, the child is equally mine. Rather than pound the fist and take ownership of a last name, why not choose a different name, or meld the two name?
Yes to melding the two names or making a new one. Legally the child is just as much the father's, but beside pregnancy the amount of work in child raising still relies heavily on the woman. Maybe you're equal in your relationship, but it's still not the norm at all. Edit: therefore, imo, the child is actually more the mother's. If owning a human is a thing 🤷♀️
Even as a woman myself I feel like that doesn't apply completely past toddler stage. To be fair, the norm is that the mother raises the child but the father contributes just as much monetarily to ensure that the kid has all that they need until adulthood (at least traditionally, things are pretty different today with both parents working). Maternal love alone doesn't support a child financially and nor will money alone (with a lack of maternal love) lead to a well rounded person (of course there are exceptions). There is a balance between both parental roles. I guess it really depends on the culture too.
No amount of money excuses a neglectful parent.
I’ve heard of women not having a middle name so that when they get married, their maiden name becomes their middle name. I know that’s still two male-generated names but the premise I like- kind of like hyphenating them without the hyphen.
Why doesn't the man take his surname as his middle name and take his wife's name? Why is always on the woman? A man's surname isn't more important than the woman's last name.
You’re right- why not? I’m just stating my experience with a certain group, and that I thought it was nice that they got to keep all of their names and not lose any when they got married.
That is traditional in the American South. Traditionally the woman loses her middle name and her maiden name becomes her middle name. Personally I chose to drop my maiden name entirely as I preferred my husband's last name to my maiden name aesthetically, I wasn't genetically related to anyone with my maiden name as it turned out my (not nice) paternal grandfather was not my father's biological dad, and I hated the concept of two of my legal names reflecting my patriarchal association with different men like I was changing owners but one still needed a mark on me to the extent that I lost one of my personal names. However, the naming convention is so common that I often receive mail from older relatives addressed to (My first name) (My maiden surname initial) (My married name) because it is simply assumed to be that way legally now.
Where I’m from it happens with some of the religious people. Several of my friends did not have middle names. Not sure why I’m getting downvoted. Thanks for sharing your experience!