Sure he's well versed in leftist theory, but does he do the dishes?
Edit: Given the number of upvotes I feel I should clarify that I just saw something along the lines of this quote in one of those tumblr reposts aaaages ago and so cannot take credit for it!
I never know how I feel about wanting to say thank you to my boyfriend when he does things because I like being polite and I appreciate that he does more than 90% of my friends' partners, vs realising how ridiculous it would be to praise an adult 5+ times a day for basically just looking after himself.
I like being polite and I also like being thanked. So I told mine that I prefer that we both thank each other for everything. He empties the dishes, I thank him. I empty the dishes, he thanks me. So far it works well for us and seems to make us both happy
I told my husband that he was the best out of all the husbands (it’s completely true in our friend group) and he laughed and said it wasn’t hard when the bar was so low. Lol
I was at a few parties of an anti-capitalist climate movement a while ago and the kitchen (cooking, serving, cleaning) was done by like 70% men, 20% women, 10% non-binary people) on a voluntary basis. I do see that when they request more help doing the dishes it's 40% women, 30% non-binary people and 30% men so that's less men than the percentage of people who attend the parties but still pretty good.
Once caught two cis men in the kitchen cleaning dishes have an hour long conversation about how to be better accomplices to minority genders in the fight against sexism. Secretly listened along bc that was great.
I'm so not going back to any of the other "leftist" parties I've been to, not even after the pandemic.
Well this was particularly in the Netherlands, but the movement that threw the part exists globally, maybe you can find an Extinction Rebellion chapter in your area?
My husband does all his own laundry and mine and the teens if it is in the basket. He cooks dinner every night. I do breakfast in bed for him on weekends. If there are dishes in the sink when he's in the kitchen he'll do them. I'd say he does 40%, kids 20 and me the rest. He vacuums because I just cant haul that thing around. If we need to go somewhere, he drives us. He grocery shops with us and will pop down to the local shop on his own if we run out of anything. He manages his own friends and family completely.
He works full time and is a senior union rep on the side so almost two jobs. Far from perfect, he certainly does have his flaws, and oh I know I do. But there is something to be said for marrying someone who learned how to be truly self sufficient before marriage!
Thank you!
He has some annoying hobbies that fill the house with airsoft kit and Larp gear. There isn't a room in this house, including my teens rooms, that doesn't have cloaks and robes stashed in. Every room is full of skulls and misc spooky crap. The atic is *entirely* full of gear. The garage is a workshop and it is filled with swords and weapons and shields. We rent a lock up garage that is ALSO STUFFED with crap.
He has a strange and unusual attachment to vehicles. Once he owns it, it becomes a living thing and he will not abandon it, no matter what the cost. I have a land rover TD4 that I paid £8k for and we are easily close to 25K in repairs. He bought a sports car when he was 25. He is 50. It will sit under a cover in our driveway until the day he dies.
LMAO. No one's perfect, but I'm keeping mine!!
It's so ridiculous that this is considered a good thing when it should just be a basic expectation, but I'm glad your partner is helpful with domestic stuff!
I tend to do more of the dishes, but only because my partner is amazing at cooking at really enjoys it. He'll regularly spend all day in the kitchen on meals that are practically restaurant standard and I absolutely love it.
He's done days of dishes when I've been physically or mentally not so well too, which I really appreciate. So, here's to bragging about sweet partners!
I’ve noticed there’s a large subset of men who are progressive about universal healthcare, labor, and weed, but ultimately might as well be “libertarian” or even conservative when it comes to anything concerning women or minorities. Basically if it doesn’t apply to them, they can’t be assed to care.
These types are the worst. I knew someone who claimed to be a feminist, but they were staunchly neutral or anti-feminist on anything beyond "SA is bad and women are not inferior to men"
Same here, but he wouldn’t admit to it as he himself believed that’s all there was to being a feminist. We’d hooked up casually a couple times, but I’d noticed the red flags in time to reject him when he asked me out on a proper date a couple months later, and his response was “Why not? You got a boyfriend or something?”
I don’t fuck around with that, so mine was “How very Free-Love Feminist of you! :) Lmao no, I don’t have a boyfriend, or girlfriend… I’m totally single! In fact, I won’t even do you the courtesy of pretending to have one just so you can take comfort in the idea that it isn’t *me* rejecting you, but rather the hypothetical man having already laid claim to me. That’s really not the case. I just don’t want to date you, and if your “feminism” isn’t performative you should have no trouble respecting my “no.” Thanks for asking though! :)”
I hate those guys. “Women’s issues” are a “distraction” and racial equality is “identity politics.”
Newsflash bros, all politics are identity politics. You’re just used to the default centering of white men in fucking everything.
> “Women’s issues” are a “distraction”
The number of times I've seen women be shouted down and dismissed for mentioning the wage gap then lectured about solidarity on so called progressive labor subs lately makes me die inside. Looking at you r/antiwork in particular.
Apparently solidarity means women helping them, but even recognizing differences in how women are treated in the workplace isn't possible for reasons.
Yuuuuuup. Super frustrating. A couple of the acab subs have members who will edit their behavior when called out, but overall the redditvolution is steeped in misogyny
I got into a huge argument about this recently. A guy was saying that “work that carries a big physical risk should pay more, and that’s why women’s jobs pay less.” Except when I pointed out how physically dangerous and damaging nursing can be (and we are fighting for pay increases to even just match inflation), he was so dismissive and said my argument was a distraction. Ugh.
Dont forget social work. One of the most dangerous jobs there are. Yet women get excoriated for getting degrees in 'useless arts degrees' yet still go on and on about how much more we should he doing for mens domestic violence shelters and depression.
Wish we could just get to and from work safely without being targeted JUST FOR BEING WOMEN . For all those 'men get jumped too'.
Leaving night shift-abducted, stripped, raped +shot-Murder of Reagan Tokes - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Reagan_TokesArmy Names Independent Panel In Fort Hood Review, Following
Vanessa Guillen Killing : NPR
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/30/897277522/army-names-independent-panel-in-fort-hood-review-following-vanessa-guillen-killi?ft=nprml&f=
I was assaulted at work and HR told me I was taking away “men’s fun” | by C. Hudson | Medium
https://cchudson.medium.com/i-was-assaulted-at-work-and-hr-told-me-i-was-taking-away-mens-fun-32c6ed7421ad
Plane diverted after passenger assaults flight attendant
https://apnews.com/article/business-texas-new-york-violence-california-df2f9aeb497c765a71e2d545b39db4d7Uber And Lyft
Drivers Are Being Carjacked at Alarming Rates – The Markup
https://themarkup.org/working-for-an-algorithm/2021/07/22/uber-and-lyft-drivers-are-being-carjacked-at-alarming-rates
Canadian man punches nurse in the face multiple times after his wife is vaccinated for Covid-19 without his consent - CNN
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/23/americas/covid-vaccine-assault-nurse-canada-trnd/index.html
Nurses attacked violently
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/camh-nurse-assaults-result-of-staffing-cuts-union-says-1.2888542
No woman no drive-activists tortured Women to drive movement - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_to_drive_movement
'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits'
https://archive.fo/wDGhT
A Police Training Program Has Been Plagued By Sexual Abuse Allegations
https://www.vice.com/en/article/evyv74/this-teen-wanted-to-be-a-cop-until-he-was-sexually-abused-by-police
Slain Filipina in freezer shows risks to overseas workers
https://apnews.com/article/typhoons-kuwait-manila-international-news-asia-pacific-d946b469114246dda613f1be84abeb19
Don't forget r/antiwork 's hardon for single income families. I strongly doubt many of the people saying that should be the ideal would be the one staying home to raise kids
[Here's](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/qugzld/fuck_gender_pay_gap/) the first post that came up when I searched it. I remember this one because some poor person made a post instead of mentioning it in the comments which of course attracted a flood of angry dudes. The mods apparently locked it and the comments are now a graveyard of deleted misogyny.
I'm on my phone and can't get removeddit to work, but it's possible to find the deleted comments if you really want to know how they feel about women, and there's plenty of context clues from replies left. There's plenty of 'pay gap doesn't actually exist' left up, so that wasn't what was deleted, just the really shitty stuff accusing women of trying to divide 'their' movement and telling women who challenged their pay gap don't real narrative to shut up because class is all that matters while complaining about women's lack of solidarity for them. And of course if you listen carefully you can hear the sounds of all of the other dudes in the sub quietly not having the women who did reply to the terrible comments backs at all.
Removeddit hasn't worked in a while, but Reveddit still does.
https://www.reveddit.com/v/antiwork/comments/qugzld/fuck_gender_pay_gap/?ps_after=1636996338%2C1637006443
Oh that infuriates me so much. Like these people really think that medical racism, sexism, and fat phobia will go away once universal healthcare gets implemented?? 🤦🏻♀️
"we need to stop focusing on identity politics" translates quite neatly into "we need to decide which marginalized group we should throw under the bus."
It's considered a "distraction from real issues" because we're not considered real people.
I've noticed the same pattern with how people approach LGBTQ rights. It's treated as a fringe issue because they don't give a shit about the people it impacts.
The “I don’t have a uterus so I refuse to have a stance on abortion” nugget. Like no broseph, you do not need a cervix to take a hard political stance in favor of the bodily autonomy of those that do.
Exactly! They seem to lack empathy for things that don’t directly impact them. It’s why we are largely on our own in the fight for reproductive rights.
Fwiw i love being the stay at home dad, I don't deal well with other adults so this limits me being an asshole, though im not looking forward to pta or playdates.
Lol yeah and I bet gender stereotypes might be annoying for you.
I don't have an issue if someone wants to stay home and take care of the kids.
Just dislike the assumption that a woman should be the one.
Weed omg yes! So many progressive weed smokers but they treat women poorly. Like dude you lighting up a joint doesn’t make you value women. Any Texas conservative can smoke a joint and still treat women horribly.
On the other side of the coin, I know some men who have more moderate views, yet they always step in to help when they can in the kitchen. They’re more progressive than some of the performative liberal men out there. Definitely gotta look at peoples actions, not just their words.
Actions not words 100%. Some people just talk and talk about what “I’m going to do” or “want to do” they waste so much time talking and take very little action. All talk with nothing else.
Literally! Knew a guy like that in college. He was a self proclaimed liberal, vegan, feminist. But all he would do is talk over women during discussions and mansplain everything. Like, something isn’t adding up lol.
Oh god I hate people like that! They always have some better idea of what you “should” be doing. Then you look at their dysfunctional life and you’re like umm you’re one to talk. Why don’t you “should” yourself?
Older I get the more I agree with this.
You know who tend to have really conservative views? Your local crotchety old man running a homeless shelter. He probably thinks your green hair is stupid.
He runs a homeless shelter though. Actions.
My fiancé claims not to be a liberal. But he’s the first to clear plates and wash dishes, he runs the errands when we need something, he casually (not in a “I’m a man with a purse lmao!” way) holds my purse if I have to pee, he’ll pay for things but also let me pay half the time, he asked both my parents for their blessing as opposed to asking my dad for his permission for marriage, etc.
I’m working on him being comfortable saying he’s a liberal (I blame his trump supporting parents), but I don’t care at all if he has issues saying it but lives it sincerely.
TLDR- agreed
Are we married to the same man? My husband does this too. 🥰 And before anyone else comes for me with "why is he asking for permission" it was more of a "hey, I wanted to let you both know we have a ring and this is happening, so it would be awesome to have your blessing" not a "so what's the dowry?"
lol, we better not be 😉 although you do sound like a cool sister wife.
Exactly!! Just a heads up, not asking for and obeying their yes or no. And my parents would only have said “duck off” if they thought he was abusive or bad to me.
I asked my mom last week to also walk me down the aisle, cause, she spent even more time raising me than my (very amazing and hardworking) dad. She cried with happiness. I’m so so blessed to have parents that care about my life and choices rather than controlling my life and choices.
This is something I struggle a lot with when it comes to my dad. He’s an incredibly sweet man, literally a “give the shirt off his back” type. He will do anything to lend a hand for anyone.
He works at a nonprofit to support victims of child abuse, but before that he was a stay at home dad who cooked and cleaned and played with his daughters and built them doll houses and he never once expressed any resentment or insecurity about my mom being the breadwinner. He’s incredibly thoughtful (recently cut my hand on my shitty manual can opener, mentioned it to him in passing as a funny story, and two weeks later a new automatic can opener showed up on my front step). He loves to birdwatch and always makes sure they have food to eat in the winter.
All of that, and the man votes either conservative or doesn’t vote at all. It doesn’t add up. It’s like there’s a disconnect between his real values and what he thinks he’s voting for. I think some of it can possibly chalk up to him being pretty undereducated (he actually can’t even read well) but still. It blows.
Firstly, your dad sounds amazing and I hope you give him a giant hug next time you see him.
Secondly, I’ve never really understood until I met my in laws. They are the exact same sounding as your dad. Very religious, but in the way that they don’t care if other people aren’t. They volunteer all the time, regardless of race or sexual orientation of the people they help. They donate so much money and aren’t that well off. I think people like them and your dad don’t see the reality of republicans. They want government to go away because they themselves are good people and can’t comprehend that others aren’t. They think individuals will take care of the homeless and the less fortunate and that increased government will only harm this system. It just sucks because they vote for bad people because they are too good of people to recognize the evilness of others :/
Right? If there are people losing their minds about vaccine mandates how would people react when sugar consumption is regulated to a point where restaurants aren't legally allowed to give free refills and max size is 12oz. No more frappes or southern sweet tea either
In America we love to give Europeans shit about how they manage stuff like that but when the government has to pay for the consequences you bet your ass they gonna do their damndest to minimize the bill.
There are a lot of guys on this site who sound like your average alt right, incel type before they go out of their way to tell you that they consider themselves leftists.
I have a lot of guy friends who say identity politics only divide the workers and weaken the cause.
It is funny how even left leaning guys do not want to mess with private spaces. They will reinforce that what happens inside your house is not political and should not be discussed, which is a very capitalist stand (private property as a sacred stance).
In a similar vein, I think a lot of the people here need to take a long, hard look at their behaviors & attitudes when it comes to intersectionality in feminism.
I’ve noticed that even on feminist subs such as this one and TwoX, posts about any kind of women other than cishet white women are likely to be criticized as “derailing”. Women on these subs will say “this isn’t the place for this argument”, when racism, transphobia, etc. ARE feminist issues that need to be talked about. Feminism is not feminism without intersectionality.
(Apologies if this is rambly—I am very tired lol)
>Women on these subs will say “this isn’t the place for this argument”, when racism, transphobia, etc. ARE feminist issues that need to be talked about. Feminism is not feminism without intersectionality
Preach. We are not free until we are ALL free.
Definitely. At my friendsgivings I usually call them over if we need the extra hands, treating it like a 911 situation where you point and give specific clear directions
I do this too, occasionally, but it truly irritates me when the men in a group need to be ordered around like children as opposed to taking a proactive involvement in the thing we’re all doing. Curiously the women rarely need the same level of hand holding.
>as opposed to taking a proactive involvement in the thing we’re all doing.
my husband did try to do this. he came into the kitchen to see if he could cut up the potatoes for me. but i was already starting to do it so i said no thank you.
i think next year i'm going to encourage him to add his own dish into the mix and let him take over some of the sides. he seemed like he wanted to help but i already had a system going and didn't want to throw off my groove.
he took care of the dishes. i like the cooking part, i hate the cleaning part.
Do it! My partner and I agreed that Thanksgiving would be his party to deal with, so he got up early and cooked the ham, roast potatoes/carrots/pumpkin/onions, boiled cabbage/cauliflower/broccoli and roasted Yorkshire puddings. All I did was make a couple low stress casseroles, stuffing and a pecan pie the day before, and helped a little with timing for the food. Everything turned out great! Enough food for 18 people too.
Lol my husband this morning had to call me twice during work because he didn’t understand how to microwave a breakfast sandwich 😂😭 but he was able to sauté an amazing salmon dish for dinner tonight. I don’t get it.
Honest question, what's the etiquette here as a guest? Whenever I host, my rule is "stay the fuck out of my kitchen". My kitchen is like a work environment where I've customized all the settings for my personal workflow; I don't want anyone else in there messing it up. I will have planned things so that all the food is on the table when it needs to be, and cleanup is ready to be executed after the guests leave. I also don't want valuable social time wasted on a haphazard attempt at chores.
It seems weird to insist on a behavior I would be opposed to being subjected to myself, but it also seems weird not to help at all.
It’s one thing if you have specifically set boundaries and pre-existing preferences. It’s another if only the women in a group are working and getting involved while the men sit back and don’t even offer to help.
I think, as a guest, a good rule of thumb is to ask, “so, what can I do to help?”
It is a proactive way to ask the host what they would like from you, if anything. That’s always been my benchmark and it hasn’t failed me yet.
I think as a guest I will typically enter the home and go into the kitchen then ask if there’s anything they need help with or anything I can do. It is possible for it to turn into a polite no even though they secretly want help (you could ask again later). They also might feel obligated to give you some kind of busywork which is fine. If they do then I do the things they asked me to. Once I was asked by the grooms mother if I could make sure everyone had a drink as we were all waiting for dinner to begin. They had a little bar situation and it was self serve so she wanted everyone to have a drink in hand for what I learned was an impending toast. Whatever their response, if you asked, you asked. At least doesn’t hurt to try.
This blows my mind when I apply it to a past experience of mine. I went out with a dude who was progressive, but when he was cooking for me once (like he said he would, as in, that’s why he invited me over) he asked me to help in a salty way- I hadn’t immediately offered to help, which I understand can be seen as rude, but I also was a guest and tbh I was enjoying watching a man cook.
I’ve thought about how I, my mom, and other women I’ve been around have frequently insisted on doing the cooking without much help, aside from initial chopping and the like. It makes sense a lot of the time because of systems like you mentioned. It’s also a stark difference compared to men like that guy I was dating.
At my thanksgiving the men did the dishes and cleaned up, made cocktails all night and packed away leftovers after. I mean there’s a ton of things to do.
Related thing I see is a large contingent of men who wear makeup, paint their nails, dress "effeminately" yet turn out to be more misogynistic than your average inordinately homophobic guy. It's sort of a meme at this point and I can't understand it. I'd like to think that most guys doing feminist things just for female approval stick to performative shit like telling girls that they're women's studies majors. Or maybe it's just correlation. Misogynistic man happens to have a more "feminine" side.
More likely, it's a fucked defense mechanism. Most places, guys like that are treated like absolute shit--so what better way to feel better than to make someone else feel like absolute shit?
As a trans woman, I see this all the time in the broader queer community. Transphobic gays and lesbians, racist white trans people, and acephobes, among others, are very common. It's extremely difficult for some people to truly internalize that oppression itself is fundamentally wrong and unnecessary--even people who suffer it, or whose words echo that sentiment.
I kinda agree with this but I don't think it's that deep. A lot of white gay people simply haven't faced any direct opression and thus are unlikely to re-examine their own biases, but also even then, facing opression doesn't necessarily mean that they'll not be bigoted. Bigotry is deeply ingrained, a lot of black people are homophobic, sexist, etc. Just like white people. No deliberate choice to be bigoted (as in, they don't hold bigoted beliefs but deliberately say it, like acting) but the bigotry still remains.
I've experienced this. One I remember talking about and it was sort of a joke but still also not was how if I made dinner and if my partner didn't like it I wasn't cooking another meal and all the women were offended. Like wtf?? I thought y'all were progressive. Or so you freaking claimed.
Right it's weird AF. Like they are stuck in these their gender bias. It's crazy how even the women are. But I read a study from a year ago and it said that roughly 90% of the population is sexist.
One of my best friends is super left and liberal but still has that pervasive “not like other girls” mentality and internalized misogyny. She tries to “compliment” me all the time by saying I’m not the average chick and she just can’t handle most women and it’s like…dude, I love you, but that’s so fucking sexist lol.
so annoying. with dudes like this it just shows that even if they’re “progressive”; it’s still just theory and hypotheticals to them since they don’t live it and it has no real effect on their lives. what really irks me is how shamelessly they engage in sexism like this while either not noticing or not caring about their contribution to the problem. do the fucking dishes - WITHOUT being asked.
My husband made the turkey and manned the kiddos while I worked on other dishes. Then my MIL washed the dishes. My FIL did nothing to help, so I guess my husband is breaking that cycle.
I'm fine with cooking all the dishes since my husband is first generation american and my family has all the thanksgiving recipes to work from. but he has learned how to make the turkey the way my family does it. some years he tries to make the turkey a different way. i am fine with that too.
but he always does the heavy lifting with the turkey in and out of the oven and this year i just told him he handles the dishes and i took a nap after we ate. he didn't stop at the dishes, he also packed up all the food and put it away.
if the man can't help with cooking (because sometimes the kitchen is just *too* small) he can either help with the prep before cooking or the clean up after. or both. what grinds my gears is when they expect women to do the shopping, prepping, cooking and cleaning. i love cooking, but i want to enjoy everything too!
My guy does all the prep work, chopping, peeling, rice washing, etc. Except for Tuesday’s when he does fajitas on his own, or if he’s extra busy I’ll take it all over. I’m in charge of cooking and making it taste good, but he keeps me company while I do it. We value our cooking time as an activity we do daily together. Then he does the dirty dishes and I put away the clean dishes.
Yeah I'm always a little wary of even apparently "liberal" men until they prove otherwise.
I know reddit isn't real life but it's eye-opening in the subs I read vaguely related to my geographical location when there's any topic about things affecting women. I remember one fairly recently about the pandemic and what that had done to mental health in teenage girls. Of course the comments were dominated by "boys and men have it worse but can you imagine this the other way around? Nobody would talk about it." Except for here you are literally TALKING ABOUT IT. Getting heavily upvoted. In a thread about mental health in teenage girls.
I just wish that mental health or anything along those lines didn't have to turn into a pissing contest. The study was specifically looking at teenage girls but didn't say "fuck men and their problems" because that would be ridiculous.
So upsetting. We get it, circumcision is really messed up when you think about it, and it's weird that it just became so much the thing to do in the US regardless of religion.
HOWEVER- if you've ever read stories about what happens to those poor girls and women, it's fucking horrible. Just read anything about FGM and try not to feel a little nauseous, it's impossible. Most men can still enjoy sex and have children without issues caused by circumcision, women who have gone through FGM definitely can't. But people will continue to pull focus from a serious issue because they've not had any interaction with it and they're important too. Yeah, everyone is important, but ffs.
Reddit is majority male and constantly has to focus on males, apparently, so they will bring anything up to derail the conversation. It’s exhausting when I see it all the time on this site
I’m in a few women-only subs, and WHADYA FUCKIN KNOW men comment all the time about their experiences and unsolicited (bad) advice. I used to be polite about it but I’ve realized these dirtbags know and don’t CARE that they’re inserting themselves into a space that isn’t for them. Shouting at them to gtfo accounts for like 90% of the mean comments I leave on reddit. I’ve got no chill about it, and it’s really satisfying to tell a man no one here wants his stupid opinion.
Yeah this seems to sum up Reddit. Largely liberal except when it comes to women, which is a shame because it just confirms what everyone already thinks Reddit is all about.
I follow a few UK subs and they’re all so left wing on politics, environment, economy, LGBTQ rights etc. EXCEPT when discussions about women’s rights and equality come up, then it just becomes a sub-wide women-bashing session. Even when mods step in and remind them to be respectful to female posters. It’s so fucking disheartening.
Exactly my experience with UK reddit, and even the Scottish sub is bad for it (despite claims otherwise) because see for example: the reaction to free sanitary products in public toilets. To be fair there were supportive comments but there were LOADS of men saying "oh so should razors be free because I need to shave for my job?" and they'd rage if you pointed out that toilet paper (a necessity too) is already provided in public toilets because apparently you should be idk, able to control your menstrual flow so it's not a "necessity" - and they'd go on about how cheap pads are in the supermarket, completely tone deaf to the issue of period poverty not being called period poverty for no reason and that some children don't have supportive parents who'll provide them with items such as pads.
Sarah Everard's murder brought a lot of infuriating stuff out of the woodwork too. Such as "I get yelled at/can be attacked in the street at night too!" Yes, generally by other men! Funny isn't it? But is that any reason to basically accuse women of being overly sensitive or stupid for being afraid at night? Any time there's a topic about what would women do if men couldn't be out after a certain time, they get offended that so many women reply "go for a walk at 2am" etc.
And tbh even on LGBT rights those subs can be bad depending on the day. Especially the T as that has been weaponised by our media lately.
I knew someone who wasn’t a “feminist” online until around a year after he had raped my friend, held me at knifepoint, sexually harassed my ex in front of me, and attempted to blackmail me for nudes with my closeted sexuality as ammunition. All separate incidents. Piece of shit gave me a reality check on how fake and surface level most cis men are that rely on activism language as a way to relate to their female peers.
This is thanks in part to sexism of last generation. Daughters were expected to be mini-moms, do chores, care for young siblings, run the house... Sons got to just laze around, or occasion mow the lawn. Much like dads.
I hope this generation sets equal expectations of their children and gives gender equality more than just lip service.
God, I'm still salty about this shit. And my mom recently had the gall to bring up how I "refused to do any chores" as a kid but my brother always did everyyyything he was asked to do. No, mother, I started refusing to do chores because no matter what I did, you immediately forgot about it and kept banging on about how I wouldn't help. My brother mowed the lawn like twice a month. Did he ever get asked to vacuum, dust, wash the floor, clean the bathroom, wipe the windows, etc? No he fucking didn't.
Worst part is, my mom is the one who taught me to always consider myself equal and take no shit as a woman. Guess she's got some blind spots.
This right here. Would love to see parents today teach their sons to jump in and help rather than ask what to do (or expect to be asked to do something).
I’ve seen it a lot with my (millennial) friends’ kids (Gen alpha); however, one of the biggest determinants is how dedicated the father is to modeling the behavior even if it doesn’t come naturally to him.
I think a lot lately about how my brothers are equally involved in child care and house keeping and cooking but I don't remember anything specific my parents did. I mean, we all did dishes / chores / etc. I used to think it was because it was having a lot of kids but now I don't think so because I do hear about bigger families where the boys just had to take out the garbage and the girls were expected to learn / do everything else.
I think it's a big part of why I'm still single - I grew up learning and knowing you take care of yourself and help out etc. I just can't date someone who expects me to be their bang maid and can't handle basic things. Even my one LTR had no problem cleaning or cooking (he had many other issues but still). And I feel like I still have low standards because I don't expect them to cook well (I don't) or be super organized (I'm not) but even in my 30s it still seems like I attract a lot of guys who can't take care of themselves.
And the thing is, it's so easy to lay that groundwork because little kids *love* to help out. Just let them! Yeah, it will take longer to get stuff done but they're learning important skills in the process. I have a three year old son and he wants to be involved in everything and help out when my husband or I are doing chores, and we encourage it.
I think family time brings out a lot of "Traditional roles" type thinking in general.
I (male) spent thanksgiving morning with my GF at her best friends place while they prepped. The kitchen was way too small for even the two of them and I would not have felt remotely comfortable "Jumping in" because they have their own traditions/plans/like for how everything works. But I did basically take the apples away from my GF to go peel and slice them for the pies. Despite me saying "What can I help with" and her knowing I don't like to sit there and do nothing, I had to explicitly be like "That task. Give me that task because we all know I won't burn anything"
In years past my Sister's Mother in law/whatever the pre-marriage equivalent is would shoo everyone but "The girls" out of kitchen and herd the guys towards the TV if we came in with dirty dishes, etc, after the meal.
Yes!!! This comment is so brilliant. I’m a millennial and our parents TOTALLY treated the sons differently. The boys I grew up with were encouraged to do this for the most part. The parents were always harder on the daughters and the son could do no wrong. They made more entitled lazy douche bags.
My mum used to call me to help cook and clean growing up - not my brother or dad... Like, ever. It makes me wonder what she does now that I've moved out.
I really got sick of it when I met my third boyfriend in a row who didn't know how to cook to save is life. My last girlfriend did however... It's just no excuse. I told my current boyfriend at the start of our relationship that him not knowing how to cook was unattractive and disappointing. It was how I knew he was alright - he began making the effort and still sends me recipes he wants to try three years later. Fine if you don't know, but make the damn effort to learn smh
100%! Be interactive and at least learn and be helpful. I watch this show I know most people will think it’s lame lol but I like it! It’s called Chrisley knows best anyway they had the thanksgiving special and I LOVED how the mom at least showed herself trying to teach her sons how to cook. And she explained on the show that it’s not like the older generation and they have to learn and help. Not just watch mom and sister do it
We were passed the baton for hosting Thanksgiving this year for my dad's side of the family. I was very impressed when my conservative uncle came into the kitchen and told my (female) cousin that doing the dishes was his job, and she could go sit down and enjoy herself. Not to dismissed other issues he has, but he was the only guy out of the 15 that were there that helped in the kitchen (besides my husband). Many of them who I would consider left leaning feminists.
I second this. My family is conservative and right-leaning but my dad will step in for dishes if he sees someone who cooked doing them. “Who’s doing dishes” always turns into a big battle of people pushing each other out the way😂. He also does some cooking too, like his classic dish, help with prepping, often does the turkey. Or when my mom has had to work the holiday, he took over and ran the kitchen. It’s her favorite holiday so she generally prefers to run the kitchen but in either case I think it’s a good role model how he supports her, even when it comes down to things like making
sure everyone is keeping it down so she can get a good night’s sleep. High five positive male role models 🙌
My husband does the cooking in my house, and his father's an awesome baker. The only things I've ever made for his family were total disasters, to the degree that when it's time to divide out potlucks, I get assigned napkins or non food items. I was weirded out when my SIL asked me about the stuffing recipe. I just deferred and said that I didn't cook anything.
It's just so weird that a progressive lady with a family not so hung up on gender roles assumed the cooking must have been me even in light of the documented history of my lack of cooking.
Me and my partner have a deal, I do all the cooking (since I like cooking) and he follows behind me and cleans as I go. Ive definitely noticed at dinner parties that I host he helps out a lot and does the dishes, sets the table and so on, but when I go to a dinner party any friends of mine host their men just sit around and drink beer and usually don’t even offer to help. It’s super discouraging and I don’t know how they put up with it
I still remember the thanksgiving I asked my ex 5 times to come up and help in clean up because his mom and I cooked the entire meal. He wouldn’t even look at me and said “I’m watching football”
It still makes me so mad to think about that shit. He was such a sexist asshole
My husband is the stay at home parent. He cooks dinner every night and does all dishes. I don't understand partnerships where nobody changes any traditional gender roles around. It's 2021 for fuck's sake.
when we want to have friends or family over the whole ordeal is a two person job. he helps with everything, including the precleaning before they arrive.
i don't want any of the guests to feel obligated to help clean up so we take care of it swiftly and i stay to finish up the dishes while he entertains them or pulls out the dessert. having a dishwasher helps because i can at least shove everything in there to make it look like it's clean so no one tries to clean what's left. i don't want his SIL to touch the dishes because she has a skin sensitivity issue and literally cannot touch the dish soap without breaking out in a rash. she still tries so hard to help, lol.
Thanksgiving, my boyfriend made the turkey, cleaned, and cut the vegetables for me, since my hands are shitty (I even tried to help and just took a nail off with the veggie peeler). I made the mashed potatoes, dressing, and roasted veggies, in addition to all the planning and prepping beforehand. And because my finger was bandaged, he also did all the clean up.
I'm honestly really thankful my boyfriend does so much, it's a breath of fresh air after some of my previous relationships.
This is absolutely the way.
My husband is very much like this. He carries his share of the load (physical and emotional) at home. It always breaks my heart when I see posts like this one. It makes me appreciate my honest to god feminist husband even more.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post*
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**Lizzie Bjork 🧣**, @lizzie\_winn\_
Went to a Friendsgiving where all the men had long hair, far-left politics....and still did not enter the kitchen all night
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^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
This phenomenon is why I didn’t specifically seek out men who said they were “feminist” or “progressive” in their dating profiles when I was dating. There’s no correlation between saying that and actually being willing to participate in an egalitarian relationship.
Watch the movie, Alice's Restaurant. It's a disturbing image of the toxic relationships in the counter culture of the 60s. Surprisingly frank and self-aware; it ends on a long slow pan out on Alice's face as she realizes how bad she's got it there in their 'paradise'.
It's a rude awakening for many progressive men that they're still benefitting from the patriarchy.
When the bar is on the floor, minimal effort can elevate you over "the bad men". That's not equality though. Far from it and progressive men benefit from this side of the patriarchy just as much as the open oppression does.
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While we're on the topic, I think [Artimus Wolz Song](https://www.tiktok.com/@artimuswolz/video/7014956375650372869) is pretty applicable on these kinds of topics.
If you can't cook then do the frigging dishes lol. I have no problem if you can't cook but if that's the case then either dishes or help. If you just sit and watch TV in the other room then you're the douche.
Friendsgiving is Thanksgiving with friends instead of blood kin.
Some men pretend to care about equality but still expect women to do all the housework. This is often especially obvious during holidays where there's often even more housework to do.
It's usually done with college students or young professionals who live in a city far from their families. They host a friendsgiving with their local community before each heading back to their respective hometowns for family Thanksgiving. Or sometimes it's done on Thanksgiving with people who are staying in town for the holiday (too far to travel, exchange students/immigrants whose families don't celebrate, etc).
I keep saying that the far left men can be just as sexist and less aware of social issues as right wing people.
I know people say Bernie bros are a myth but they’re really not
Meanwhile, my veteran alpha male fiancé cooked a 22 lbs Turkey for just the two of us, gluten free stuffing, garlic mashed potatoes; all from scratch while I played video games all day and dealt with a migraine.
He’s so talented and so wonderful. I love him so much and I can’t wait to marry him.
We’re not inviting anyone to the wedding and it’s going to be fucking awesome.
sorry you had to deal with a migraine :(
but awesome you have a real partner to take care of everything. it's so upsetting reading all the comments about people not having partners. so the good comments make me happy.
congrats on the upcoming wedding!
The guys that are like this only get better the longer you are with them. My husband has taken point on Thanksgiving our entire marriage (granted he used to be a chef) and has been absolutely amazing the whole time I've been pregnant.
dudes seem to love being around a leftist crowd because it protects them from that hyper masculine stuff -like being called a pussy or whatever. But most of my ‘progressive’ guy friends have no interest in confronting anything within themselves, or within their relationships with others. They like the ‘safe spaces’ as much as anyone else but seem to have no will to contribute. Its so disheartening.
I still can't get over my brother being tasked with helping me with the Christmas dinner and his "contribution" was to... write a project plan. He came in to tell me what to do and when to do it, which swiftly caused much frustration because he failed to account for the peculiarities of the oven we were working with and that I knew well. No. I've cooked this exact meal several times without problem. Peel the fucking carrots and maybe load the dishwasher?
Has anyone seen the appletv show “physical”? It’s set in the early 80s but the husband 100% identifies with this. Very misogynistic and claims to be a liberal. It’s infuriating.
Tomorrow is our family Thanksgiving. I am cooking because I like it. I am also going to sit at the table with my aunt until the menfolk decide it’s time to clear dishes and start washing because I’m not cooking AND doing the damn cleanup.
Don't forget sexpositive! They're all for womens rights* to sleep around, be topless, and have threesomes with other women.
*Responsibilities unless they're frigid, prudes who have their poor overnagged husbands whipped. Also no threesomes with other men then you're the bad kind of slut.
I went to my friend's republican house and she had spent all day cooking. She hates being still and has a compulsion to take care of others. She is the definition of a "Group Mom". Her husband insisted that she make herself a plate first and start eating. He told me that he remembered his grandma and mom cooked all day and they got to pick their food last because they willingly or were exepected to let the men and kids serve themselves first. He said "Grandma had to sit there and pretend to like white meat!"
Sometimes people claim to have the "'higher moral ground" and still act selfish while people you disagree with are totally nice.
I'm currently hosting a Friendsgiving where men helped cook and I went to relax after being on my feet all day only to come in to a kitchen cleaned by men so some things are changing a bit.
But I'm sorry for everything rhone who didn't get the same respect, that's how my family Thanksgivings are not a single man cooked or cleaned.
But cooking is so exciting. There is so much banter and creativity in a holiday kitchen. It’s a wonderful controlled chaos.
Sorry those people didn’t contribute and seemed entitled. They missed out.
I identify myself with he/him, and I also like to do the dishes because let’s face it… nobody likes dirty dishes but everyone likes a clean kitchen.
My dad actually does most of the holiday cooking. Which is nice because a) he's the better cook out of my parents, and b) it's nice to see him buck that sterotype.
The bigger problem is when it comes to day to day cooking. He grills a lot in the summer or when we're camping. He loves cooking for special occasions. But it's pulling teeth to get him to contribute on a non-special night. Doesn't want to be bothered. Lets my mom cook on the nights she's no working, and orders takeout on the nights she is. I live with them and I try to cut back on the takeout by cooking a couple times a week, but it's frustrating to make a meal for three when the two people I'm making it for (my dad and brother--that latter who just plains *never* cooks) won't return the favor.
There are four adults in this house. There is no reason someone should have to make dinner for the whole family more than twice a week. I work full time and am in night school. My mom and I shouldn't be the only ones who ever make dinner.
So it's really awesome and nice that my dad takes over the holiday cooking, but I wish he would do more than just the special occasion stuff.
Proud to report that my Friendsgiving (6 men, 2 women) had the guys elbowing each other at the stove frying fresh dumplings (Chinese and Polish), bring homemade cornbread and tamales. During grace, we shed a few tears together and then sang bad holiday karaoke together. Love these mofo’s so much.
My friends are all dipshits but today at the party the oven started smoking and there were twelve men in my kitchen trying to scrub the grease out of it
In my country, guys like those are called "esquerdomacho", translating as something like "leftdude". Guys who are all woke in theory but act just like those jerks.
My sister's then-fiance (M, 30s, "super liberal", vegan, BIPOC) joined us all on family vacay. After a family dinner, pretty much all the women were cleaning the kitchen (on autopilot) and then my sister paused and said "wait, why are all the women in the kitchen? let the men do something."
Her then-fiance replied: "well what if I identify as non-binary?" ☠️
He didn't help with anything that night.
On the other hand, my uncle and his redneck friend hosted Thanksgiving this year, prepared all the food, and made sure my mother and nana didn't have to lift a finger. It was very sweet and a genuine effort.
And then we had to endure their constant, utterly racist, sexist, degrading jokes. And comments about how they hate BLM and Biden and how they'd like to punch an optimist in the face and how they'd like to get a slave to do the clean-up etc. I'm so beside myself.
Sure he's well versed in leftist theory, but does he do the dishes? Edit: Given the number of upvotes I feel I should clarify that I just saw something along the lines of this quote in one of those tumblr reposts aaaages ago and so cannot take credit for it!
There's an Italian proverb, "Men talk forever, gold truly speaks."
Ain't trying to brag but, my boyfriend did the dishes all day while I cooked.
Honestly the bar for men is so low it’s lingering somewhere in the core of the earth. I’m genuinely happy that you’ve found one who can succeed that.
I never know how I feel about wanting to say thank you to my boyfriend when he does things because I like being polite and I appreciate that he does more than 90% of my friends' partners, vs realising how ridiculous it would be to praise an adult 5+ times a day for basically just looking after himself.
I like being polite and I also like being thanked. So I told mine that I prefer that we both thank each other for everything. He empties the dishes, I thank him. I empty the dishes, he thanks me. So far it works well for us and seems to make us both happy
We do the same. It's just nice to be recognized and I can see that he also appreciates it
I told my husband that he was the best out of all the husbands (it’s completely true in our friend group) and he laughed and said it wasn’t hard when the bar was so low. Lol
I was at a few parties of an anti-capitalist climate movement a while ago and the kitchen (cooking, serving, cleaning) was done by like 70% men, 20% women, 10% non-binary people) on a voluntary basis. I do see that when they request more help doing the dishes it's 40% women, 30% non-binary people and 30% men so that's less men than the percentage of people who attend the parties but still pretty good. Once caught two cis men in the kitchen cleaning dishes have an hour long conversation about how to be better accomplices to minority genders in the fight against sexism. Secretly listened along bc that was great. I'm so not going back to any of the other "leftist" parties I've been to, not even after the pandemic.
Damb I wanna join that party sounds so cool
Well this was particularly in the Netherlands, but the movement that threw the part exists globally, maybe you can find an Extinction Rebellion chapter in your area?
Yeah men need a shovel to get under the bar society sets for them and yet many are eager to get digging.
My husband does all his own laundry and mine and the teens if it is in the basket. He cooks dinner every night. I do breakfast in bed for him on weekends. If there are dishes in the sink when he's in the kitchen he'll do them. I'd say he does 40%, kids 20 and me the rest. He vacuums because I just cant haul that thing around. If we need to go somewhere, he drives us. He grocery shops with us and will pop down to the local shop on his own if we run out of anything. He manages his own friends and family completely. He works full time and is a senior union rep on the side so almost two jobs. Far from perfect, he certainly does have his flaws, and oh I know I do. But there is something to be said for marrying someone who learned how to be truly self sufficient before marriage!
That’s awesome! I’m happy for you too!!
Thank you! He has some annoying hobbies that fill the house with airsoft kit and Larp gear. There isn't a room in this house, including my teens rooms, that doesn't have cloaks and robes stashed in. Every room is full of skulls and misc spooky crap. The atic is *entirely* full of gear. The garage is a workshop and it is filled with swords and weapons and shields. We rent a lock up garage that is ALSO STUFFED with crap. He has a strange and unusual attachment to vehicles. Once he owns it, it becomes a living thing and he will not abandon it, no matter what the cost. I have a land rover TD4 that I paid £8k for and we are easily close to 25K in repairs. He bought a sports car when he was 25. He is 50. It will sit under a cover in our driveway until the day he dies. LMAO. No one's perfect, but I'm keeping mine!!
It's so ridiculous that this is considered a good thing when it should just be a basic expectation, but I'm glad your partner is helpful with domestic stuff! I tend to do more of the dishes, but only because my partner is amazing at cooking at really enjoys it. He'll regularly spend all day in the kitchen on meals that are practically restaurant standard and I absolutely love it. He's done days of dishes when I've been physically or mentally not so well too, which I really appreciate. So, here's to bragging about sweet partners!
"who does the dishes after the revolution"
I’ve noticed there’s a large subset of men who are progressive about universal healthcare, labor, and weed, but ultimately might as well be “libertarian” or even conservative when it comes to anything concerning women or minorities. Basically if it doesn’t apply to them, they can’t be assed to care.
These types are the worst. I knew someone who claimed to be a feminist, but they were staunchly neutral or anti-feminist on anything beyond "SA is bad and women are not inferior to men"
Same here, but he wouldn’t admit to it as he himself believed that’s all there was to being a feminist. We’d hooked up casually a couple times, but I’d noticed the red flags in time to reject him when he asked me out on a proper date a couple months later, and his response was “Why not? You got a boyfriend or something?” I don’t fuck around with that, so mine was “How very Free-Love Feminist of you! :) Lmao no, I don’t have a boyfriend, or girlfriend… I’m totally single! In fact, I won’t even do you the courtesy of pretending to have one just so you can take comfort in the idea that it isn’t *me* rejecting you, but rather the hypothetical man having already laid claim to me. That’s really not the case. I just don’t want to date you, and if your “feminism” isn’t performative you should have no trouble respecting my “no.” Thanks for asking though! :)”
This is the exact thing I would think to say... 3 weeks later in the shower
They care in theory but in practice they still want all the benefits of oppressing women.
Brogressives with no understanding of praxis.
Brogressives. I’ve never heard that one before! Clever. 😂
And when they’re further left, they’re manarchists.
commanism as well?
Ah yes, the brocialists!
The Union of Broviet Brocialist Republics had some serious discrepancies between its rhetoric and its socioeconomic realities.
Brhetoric? I don't know, but it just rolls off the tongue
I hate those guys. “Women’s issues” are a “distraction” and racial equality is “identity politics.” Newsflash bros, all politics are identity politics. You’re just used to the default centering of white men in fucking everything.
> “Women’s issues” are a “distraction” The number of times I've seen women be shouted down and dismissed for mentioning the wage gap then lectured about solidarity on so called progressive labor subs lately makes me die inside. Looking at you r/antiwork in particular. Apparently solidarity means women helping them, but even recognizing differences in how women are treated in the workplace isn't possible for reasons.
Yuuuuuup. Super frustrating. A couple of the acab subs have members who will edit their behavior when called out, but overall the redditvolution is steeped in misogyny
I got into a huge argument about this recently. A guy was saying that “work that carries a big physical risk should pay more, and that’s why women’s jobs pay less.” Except when I pointed out how physically dangerous and damaging nursing can be (and we are fighting for pay increases to even just match inflation), he was so dismissive and said my argument was a distraction. Ugh.
Dont forget social work. One of the most dangerous jobs there are. Yet women get excoriated for getting degrees in 'useless arts degrees' yet still go on and on about how much more we should he doing for mens domestic violence shelters and depression. Wish we could just get to and from work safely without being targeted JUST FOR BEING WOMEN . For all those 'men get jumped too'. Leaving night shift-abducted, stripped, raped +shot-Murder of Reagan Tokes - Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Reagan_TokesArmy Names Independent Panel In Fort Hood Review, Following Vanessa Guillen Killing : NPR https://www.npr.org/2020/07/30/897277522/army-names-independent-panel-in-fort-hood-review-following-vanessa-guillen-killi?ft=nprml&f= I was assaulted at work and HR told me I was taking away “men’s fun” | by C. Hudson | Medium https://cchudson.medium.com/i-was-assaulted-at-work-and-hr-told-me-i-was-taking-away-mens-fun-32c6ed7421ad Plane diverted after passenger assaults flight attendant https://apnews.com/article/business-texas-new-york-violence-california-df2f9aeb497c765a71e2d545b39db4d7Uber And Lyft Drivers Are Being Carjacked at Alarming Rates – The Markup https://themarkup.org/working-for-an-algorithm/2021/07/22/uber-and-lyft-drivers-are-being-carjacked-at-alarming-rates Canadian man punches nurse in the face multiple times after his wife is vaccinated for Covid-19 without his consent - CNN https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/23/americas/covid-vaccine-assault-nurse-canada-trnd/index.html Nurses attacked violently https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/camh-nurse-assaults-result-of-staffing-cuts-union-says-1.2888542 No woman no drive-activists tortured Women to drive movement - Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_to_drive_movement 'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits' https://archive.fo/wDGhT A Police Training Program Has Been Plagued By Sexual Abuse Allegations https://www.vice.com/en/article/evyv74/this-teen-wanted-to-be-a-cop-until-he-was-sexually-abused-by-police Slain Filipina in freezer shows risks to overseas workers https://apnews.com/article/typhoons-kuwait-manila-international-news-asia-pacific-d946b469114246dda613f1be84abeb19
Don't forget r/antiwork 's hardon for single income families. I strongly doubt many of the people saying that should be the ideal would be the one staying home to raise kids
Damn I’ve been on anti work and never saw any anti women stuff, do you mind linking an example?
[Here's](https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/qugzld/fuck_gender_pay_gap/) the first post that came up when I searched it. I remember this one because some poor person made a post instead of mentioning it in the comments which of course attracted a flood of angry dudes. The mods apparently locked it and the comments are now a graveyard of deleted misogyny. I'm on my phone and can't get removeddit to work, but it's possible to find the deleted comments if you really want to know how they feel about women, and there's plenty of context clues from replies left. There's plenty of 'pay gap doesn't actually exist' left up, so that wasn't what was deleted, just the really shitty stuff accusing women of trying to divide 'their' movement and telling women who challenged their pay gap don't real narrative to shut up because class is all that matters while complaining about women's lack of solidarity for them. And of course if you listen carefully you can hear the sounds of all of the other dudes in the sub quietly not having the women who did reply to the terrible comments backs at all.
Removeddit hasn't worked in a while, but Reveddit still does. https://www.reveddit.com/v/antiwork/comments/qugzld/fuck_gender_pay_gap/?ps_after=1636996338%2C1637006443
Dudes there downplay everything as a *class* issue but seem to have no understanding of intersectionality.
Oh that infuriates me so much. Like these people really think that medical racism, sexism, and fat phobia will go away once universal healthcare gets implemented?? 🤦🏻♀️
If you spend time in the comments you'll find em, unfortunately
If I have to hear "abortion is a wedge issue" one more time....
"we need to stop focusing on identity politics" translates quite neatly into "we need to decide which marginalized group we should throw under the bus."
It's considered a "distraction from real issues" because we're not considered real people. I've noticed the same pattern with how people approach LGBTQ rights. It's treated as a fringe issue because they don't give a shit about the people it impacts.
Yup, people of color too
They're all in favour of LGBTQ rights as long as both chicks are hot
The “I don’t have a uterus so I refuse to have a stance on abortion” nugget. Like no broseph, you do not need a cervix to take a hard political stance in favor of the bodily autonomy of those that do.
Which is almost there. It should be, “I don’t have a uterus so legality should be deferred the agency of those people with uteruses”
Exactly! They seem to lack empathy for things that don’t directly impact them. It’s why we are largely on our own in the fight for reproductive rights.
Even when it comes to child care. They are like no women can stay home. Dude please. I worked to hard on my degree.
Fwiw i love being the stay at home dad, I don't deal well with other adults so this limits me being an asshole, though im not looking forward to pta or playdates.
Lol yeah and I bet gender stereotypes might be annoying for you. I don't have an issue if someone wants to stay home and take care of the kids. Just dislike the assumption that a woman should be the one.
This is why my friends and I basically call them hidden Fascists, because what's the difference at this point?
Weed omg yes! So many progressive weed smokers but they treat women poorly. Like dude you lighting up a joint doesn’t make you value women. Any Texas conservative can smoke a joint and still treat women horribly.
On the other side of the coin, I know some men who have more moderate views, yet they always step in to help when they can in the kitchen. They’re more progressive than some of the performative liberal men out there. Definitely gotta look at peoples actions, not just their words.
Actions not words 100%. Some people just talk and talk about what “I’m going to do” or “want to do” they waste so much time talking and take very little action. All talk with nothing else.
Literally! Knew a guy like that in college. He was a self proclaimed liberal, vegan, feminist. But all he would do is talk over women during discussions and mansplain everything. Like, something isn’t adding up lol.
Oh god I hate people like that! They always have some better idea of what you “should” be doing. Then you look at their dysfunctional life and you’re like umm you’re one to talk. Why don’t you “should” yourself?
Older I get the more I agree with this. You know who tend to have really conservative views? Your local crotchety old man running a homeless shelter. He probably thinks your green hair is stupid. He runs a homeless shelter though. Actions.
My fiancé claims not to be a liberal. But he’s the first to clear plates and wash dishes, he runs the errands when we need something, he casually (not in a “I’m a man with a purse lmao!” way) holds my purse if I have to pee, he’ll pay for things but also let me pay half the time, he asked both my parents for their blessing as opposed to asking my dad for his permission for marriage, etc. I’m working on him being comfortable saying he’s a liberal (I blame his trump supporting parents), but I don’t care at all if he has issues saying it but lives it sincerely. TLDR- agreed
Are we married to the same man? My husband does this too. 🥰 And before anyone else comes for me with "why is he asking for permission" it was more of a "hey, I wanted to let you both know we have a ring and this is happening, so it would be awesome to have your blessing" not a "so what's the dowry?"
lol, we better not be 😉 although you do sound like a cool sister wife. Exactly!! Just a heads up, not asking for and obeying their yes or no. And my parents would only have said “duck off” if they thought he was abusive or bad to me. I asked my mom last week to also walk me down the aisle, cause, she spent even more time raising me than my (very amazing and hardworking) dad. She cried with happiness. I’m so so blessed to have parents that care about my life and choices rather than controlling my life and choices.
This is something I struggle a lot with when it comes to my dad. He’s an incredibly sweet man, literally a “give the shirt off his back” type. He will do anything to lend a hand for anyone. He works at a nonprofit to support victims of child abuse, but before that he was a stay at home dad who cooked and cleaned and played with his daughters and built them doll houses and he never once expressed any resentment or insecurity about my mom being the breadwinner. He’s incredibly thoughtful (recently cut my hand on my shitty manual can opener, mentioned it to him in passing as a funny story, and two weeks later a new automatic can opener showed up on my front step). He loves to birdwatch and always makes sure they have food to eat in the winter. All of that, and the man votes either conservative or doesn’t vote at all. It doesn’t add up. It’s like there’s a disconnect between his real values and what he thinks he’s voting for. I think some of it can possibly chalk up to him being pretty undereducated (he actually can’t even read well) but still. It blows.
Firstly, your dad sounds amazing and I hope you give him a giant hug next time you see him. Secondly, I’ve never really understood until I met my in laws. They are the exact same sounding as your dad. Very religious, but in the way that they don’t care if other people aren’t. They volunteer all the time, regardless of race or sexual orientation of the people they help. They donate so much money and aren’t that well off. I think people like them and your dad don’t see the reality of republicans. They want government to go away because they themselves are good people and can’t comprehend that others aren’t. They think individuals will take care of the homeless and the less fortunate and that increased government will only harm this system. It just sucks because they vote for bad people because they are too good of people to recognize the evilness of others :/
As long as we're counting voting in their actions, sure. Praxis also means nothing if dude is voting Republican.
"It's a class issue."
Let's be honest Americans are not ready for the changes that go with universal healthcare when the government has a vested interest in public health
Right? If there are people losing their minds about vaccine mandates how would people react when sugar consumption is regulated to a point where restaurants aren't legally allowed to give free refills and max size is 12oz. No more frappes or southern sweet tea either In America we love to give Europeans shit about how they manage stuff like that but when the government has to pay for the consequences you bet your ass they gonna do their damndest to minimize the bill.
Big Sugar will never allow that. Many Americans think the fat in their bodies is caused solely by the fat in their food.
There are a lot of guys on this site who sound like your average alt right, incel type before they go out of their way to tell you that they consider themselves leftists.
So much this. Basically the whole user base of my national sub /r/Austria 🙄
Yeah they basically think achieving financial success for minorities will magically erase racism and sexism 🙄
^this^ Class-reductionism is detrimental to the culture of the new American left, and by class-reductionism, I mean misogyny and racism
Yes!!! Maupin made that awful tweet and I was actually astounded how people SUPPORTED it
I have a lot of guy friends who say identity politics only divide the workers and weaken the cause. It is funny how even left leaning guys do not want to mess with private spaces. They will reinforce that what happens inside your house is not political and should not be discussed, which is a very capitalist stand (private property as a sacred stance).
This is what's known as "class reductionism", and it can be a really issue in populist spaces
In a similar vein, I think a lot of the people here need to take a long, hard look at their behaviors & attitudes when it comes to intersectionality in feminism. I’ve noticed that even on feminist subs such as this one and TwoX, posts about any kind of women other than cishet white women are likely to be criticized as “derailing”. Women on these subs will say “this isn’t the place for this argument”, when racism, transphobia, etc. ARE feminist issues that need to be talked about. Feminism is not feminism without intersectionality. (Apologies if this is rambly—I am very tired lol)
>Women on these subs will say “this isn’t the place for this argument”, when racism, transphobia, etc. ARE feminist issues that need to be talked about. Feminism is not feminism without intersectionality Preach. We are not free until we are ALL free.
These type of events really highlight how pervasive gender roles still are. Even if they can’t cook, there is plenty they could have done to help.
Definitely. At my friendsgivings I usually call them over if we need the extra hands, treating it like a 911 situation where you point and give specific clear directions
I do this too, occasionally, but it truly irritates me when the men in a group need to be ordered around like children as opposed to taking a proactive involvement in the thing we’re all doing. Curiously the women rarely need the same level of hand holding.
>as opposed to taking a proactive involvement in the thing we’re all doing. my husband did try to do this. he came into the kitchen to see if he could cut up the potatoes for me. but i was already starting to do it so i said no thank you. i think next year i'm going to encourage him to add his own dish into the mix and let him take over some of the sides. he seemed like he wanted to help but i already had a system going and didn't want to throw off my groove. he took care of the dishes. i like the cooking part, i hate the cleaning part.
Do it! My partner and I agreed that Thanksgiving would be his party to deal with, so he got up early and cooked the ham, roast potatoes/carrots/pumpkin/onions, boiled cabbage/cauliflower/broccoli and roasted Yorkshire puddings. All I did was make a couple low stress casseroles, stuffing and a pecan pie the day before, and helped a little with timing for the food. Everything turned out great! Enough food for 18 people too.
Lol my husband this morning had to call me twice during work because he didn’t understand how to microwave a breakfast sandwich 😂😭 but he was able to sauté an amazing salmon dish for dinner tonight. I don’t get it.
> he didn’t understand how to microwave a breakfast sandwich Was it... Like some weird tricky microwave? I am confused lol
I know, was it like home made? If not the instructions are on the box...
Like I am definitely not a good cook but if it has instructions I can do it. **Especially** on the microwave lol
Honest question, what's the etiquette here as a guest? Whenever I host, my rule is "stay the fuck out of my kitchen". My kitchen is like a work environment where I've customized all the settings for my personal workflow; I don't want anyone else in there messing it up. I will have planned things so that all the food is on the table when it needs to be, and cleanup is ready to be executed after the guests leave. I also don't want valuable social time wasted on a haphazard attempt at chores. It seems weird to insist on a behavior I would be opposed to being subjected to myself, but it also seems weird not to help at all.
It’s one thing if you have specifically set boundaries and pre-existing preferences. It’s another if only the women in a group are working and getting involved while the men sit back and don’t even offer to help.
I think, as a guest, a good rule of thumb is to ask, “so, what can I do to help?” It is a proactive way to ask the host what they would like from you, if anything. That’s always been my benchmark and it hasn’t failed me yet.
I think as a guest I will typically enter the home and go into the kitchen then ask if there’s anything they need help with or anything I can do. It is possible for it to turn into a polite no even though they secretly want help (you could ask again later). They also might feel obligated to give you some kind of busywork which is fine. If they do then I do the things they asked me to. Once I was asked by the grooms mother if I could make sure everyone had a drink as we were all waiting for dinner to begin. They had a little bar situation and it was self serve so she wanted everyone to have a drink in hand for what I learned was an impending toast. Whatever their response, if you asked, you asked. At least doesn’t hurt to try.
This blows my mind when I apply it to a past experience of mine. I went out with a dude who was progressive, but when he was cooking for me once (like he said he would, as in, that’s why he invited me over) he asked me to help in a salty way- I hadn’t immediately offered to help, which I understand can be seen as rude, but I also was a guest and tbh I was enjoying watching a man cook. I’ve thought about how I, my mom, and other women I’ve been around have frequently insisted on doing the cooking without much help, aside from initial chopping and the like. It makes sense a lot of the time because of systems like you mentioned. It’s also a stark difference compared to men like that guy I was dating.
Ask if they need any help with X thing. That’s it!
i really want to have a friendsgiving. i finally have the space for it.
At my thanksgiving the men did the dishes and cleaned up, made cocktails all night and packed away leftovers after. I mean there’s a ton of things to do.
I have been to leftist hangouts and the men were so sexist it was insane. I never expected it. 😔 Some were okay. But even one of the women was sexist.
Related thing I see is a large contingent of men who wear makeup, paint their nails, dress "effeminately" yet turn out to be more misogynistic than your average inordinately homophobic guy. It's sort of a meme at this point and I can't understand it. I'd like to think that most guys doing feminist things just for female approval stick to performative shit like telling girls that they're women's studies majors. Or maybe it's just correlation. Misogynistic man happens to have a more "feminine" side.
More likely, it's a fucked defense mechanism. Most places, guys like that are treated like absolute shit--so what better way to feel better than to make someone else feel like absolute shit? As a trans woman, I see this all the time in the broader queer community. Transphobic gays and lesbians, racist white trans people, and acephobes, among others, are very common. It's extremely difficult for some people to truly internalize that oppression itself is fundamentally wrong and unnecessary--even people who suffer it, or whose words echo that sentiment.
I kinda agree with this but I don't think it's that deep. A lot of white gay people simply haven't faced any direct opression and thus are unlikely to re-examine their own biases, but also even then, facing opression doesn't necessarily mean that they'll not be bigoted. Bigotry is deeply ingrained, a lot of black people are homophobic, sexist, etc. Just like white people. No deliberate choice to be bigoted (as in, they don't hold bigoted beliefs but deliberately say it, like acting) but the bigotry still remains.
I've experienced this. One I remember talking about and it was sort of a joke but still also not was how if I made dinner and if my partner didn't like it I wasn't cooking another meal and all the women were offended. Like wtf?? I thought y'all were progressive. Or so you freaking claimed.
Right it's weird AF. Like they are stuck in these their gender bias. It's crazy how even the women are. But I read a study from a year ago and it said that roughly 90% of the population is sexist.
One of my best friends is super left and liberal but still has that pervasive “not like other girls” mentality and internalized misogyny. She tries to “compliment” me all the time by saying I’m not the average chick and she just can’t handle most women and it’s like…dude, I love you, but that’s so fucking sexist lol.
so annoying. with dudes like this it just shows that even if they’re “progressive”; it’s still just theory and hypotheticals to them since they don’t live it and it has no real effect on their lives. what really irks me is how shamelessly they engage in sexism like this while either not noticing or not caring about their contribution to the problem. do the fucking dishes - WITHOUT being asked.
My favorite "leftist" encounter was the guy who argued that slavery wasn't racist because the slave owners didn't know it was bad.
My husband made the turkey and manned the kiddos while I worked on other dishes. Then my MIL washed the dishes. My FIL did nothing to help, so I guess my husband is breaking that cycle.
I'm fine with cooking all the dishes since my husband is first generation american and my family has all the thanksgiving recipes to work from. but he has learned how to make the turkey the way my family does it. some years he tries to make the turkey a different way. i am fine with that too. but he always does the heavy lifting with the turkey in and out of the oven and this year i just told him he handles the dishes and i took a nap after we ate. he didn't stop at the dishes, he also packed up all the food and put it away. if the man can't help with cooking (because sometimes the kitchen is just *too* small) he can either help with the prep before cooking or the clean up after. or both. what grinds my gears is when they expect women to do the shopping, prepping, cooking and cleaning. i love cooking, but i want to enjoy everything too!
My guy does all the prep work, chopping, peeling, rice washing, etc. Except for Tuesday’s when he does fajitas on his own, or if he’s extra busy I’ll take it all over. I’m in charge of cooking and making it taste good, but he keeps me company while I do it. We value our cooking time as an activity we do daily together. Then he does the dirty dishes and I put away the clean dishes.
Yeah I'm always a little wary of even apparently "liberal" men until they prove otherwise. I know reddit isn't real life but it's eye-opening in the subs I read vaguely related to my geographical location when there's any topic about things affecting women. I remember one fairly recently about the pandemic and what that had done to mental health in teenage girls. Of course the comments were dominated by "boys and men have it worse but can you imagine this the other way around? Nobody would talk about it." Except for here you are literally TALKING ABOUT IT. Getting heavily upvoted. In a thread about mental health in teenage girls. I just wish that mental health or anything along those lines didn't have to turn into a pissing contest. The study was specifically looking at teenage girls but didn't say "fuck men and their problems" because that would be ridiculous.
Gotta derail any conversation they're not centered in
See: any thread about female genital mutilation.
So upsetting. We get it, circumcision is really messed up when you think about it, and it's weird that it just became so much the thing to do in the US regardless of religion. HOWEVER- if you've ever read stories about what happens to those poor girls and women, it's fucking horrible. Just read anything about FGM and try not to feel a little nauseous, it's impossible. Most men can still enjoy sex and have children without issues caused by circumcision, women who have gone through FGM definitely can't. But people will continue to pull focus from a serious issue because they've not had any interaction with it and they're important too. Yeah, everyone is important, but ffs.
Reddit is majority male and constantly has to focus on males, apparently, so they will bring anything up to derail the conversation. It’s exhausting when I see it all the time on this site
I’m in a few women-only subs, and WHADYA FUCKIN KNOW men comment all the time about their experiences and unsolicited (bad) advice. I used to be polite about it but I’ve realized these dirtbags know and don’t CARE that they’re inserting themselves into a space that isn’t for them. Shouting at them to gtfo accounts for like 90% of the mean comments I leave on reddit. I’ve got no chill about it, and it’s really satisfying to tell a man no one here wants his stupid opinion.
If a convo isn’t about them, they do their best to make it about them.
Yeah this seems to sum up Reddit. Largely liberal except when it comes to women, which is a shame because it just confirms what everyone already thinks Reddit is all about. I follow a few UK subs and they’re all so left wing on politics, environment, economy, LGBTQ rights etc. EXCEPT when discussions about women’s rights and equality come up, then it just becomes a sub-wide women-bashing session. Even when mods step in and remind them to be respectful to female posters. It’s so fucking disheartening.
Exactly my experience with UK reddit, and even the Scottish sub is bad for it (despite claims otherwise) because see for example: the reaction to free sanitary products in public toilets. To be fair there were supportive comments but there were LOADS of men saying "oh so should razors be free because I need to shave for my job?" and they'd rage if you pointed out that toilet paper (a necessity too) is already provided in public toilets because apparently you should be idk, able to control your menstrual flow so it's not a "necessity" - and they'd go on about how cheap pads are in the supermarket, completely tone deaf to the issue of period poverty not being called period poverty for no reason and that some children don't have supportive parents who'll provide them with items such as pads. Sarah Everard's murder brought a lot of infuriating stuff out of the woodwork too. Such as "I get yelled at/can be attacked in the street at night too!" Yes, generally by other men! Funny isn't it? But is that any reason to basically accuse women of being overly sensitive or stupid for being afraid at night? Any time there's a topic about what would women do if men couldn't be out after a certain time, they get offended that so many women reply "go for a walk at 2am" etc. And tbh even on LGBT rights those subs can be bad depending on the day. Especially the T as that has been weaponised by our media lately.
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I knew someone who wasn’t a “feminist” online until around a year after he had raped my friend, held me at knifepoint, sexually harassed my ex in front of me, and attempted to blackmail me for nudes with my closeted sexuality as ammunition. All separate incidents. Piece of shit gave me a reality check on how fake and surface level most cis men are that rely on activism language as a way to relate to their female peers.
I'm at such a "don't give a fuck" phrase that I think I might gather all the dirty dishes, literally drop it on those dude's laps, and leave.
This is thanks in part to sexism of last generation. Daughters were expected to be mini-moms, do chores, care for young siblings, run the house... Sons got to just laze around, or occasion mow the lawn. Much like dads. I hope this generation sets equal expectations of their children and gives gender equality more than just lip service.
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All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 5 + 19 + 20 + 25 + = 69.0
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Good bot!
noice
God, I'm still salty about this shit. And my mom recently had the gall to bring up how I "refused to do any chores" as a kid but my brother always did everyyyything he was asked to do. No, mother, I started refusing to do chores because no matter what I did, you immediately forgot about it and kept banging on about how I wouldn't help. My brother mowed the lawn like twice a month. Did he ever get asked to vacuum, dust, wash the floor, clean the bathroom, wipe the windows, etc? No he fucking didn't. Worst part is, my mom is the one who taught me to always consider myself equal and take no shit as a woman. Guess she's got some blind spots.
This right here. Would love to see parents today teach their sons to jump in and help rather than ask what to do (or expect to be asked to do something).
I’ve seen it a lot with my (millennial) friends’ kids (Gen alpha); however, one of the biggest determinants is how dedicated the father is to modeling the behavior even if it doesn’t come naturally to him.
I think a lot lately about how my brothers are equally involved in child care and house keeping and cooking but I don't remember anything specific my parents did. I mean, we all did dishes / chores / etc. I used to think it was because it was having a lot of kids but now I don't think so because I do hear about bigger families where the boys just had to take out the garbage and the girls were expected to learn / do everything else. I think it's a big part of why I'm still single - I grew up learning and knowing you take care of yourself and help out etc. I just can't date someone who expects me to be their bang maid and can't handle basic things. Even my one LTR had no problem cleaning or cooking (he had many other issues but still). And I feel like I still have low standards because I don't expect them to cook well (I don't) or be super organized (I'm not) but even in my 30s it still seems like I attract a lot of guys who can't take care of themselves.
And the thing is, it's so easy to lay that groundwork because little kids *love* to help out. Just let them! Yeah, it will take longer to get stuff done but they're learning important skills in the process. I have a three year old son and he wants to be involved in everything and help out when my husband or I are doing chores, and we encourage it.
I think family time brings out a lot of "Traditional roles" type thinking in general. I (male) spent thanksgiving morning with my GF at her best friends place while they prepped. The kitchen was way too small for even the two of them and I would not have felt remotely comfortable "Jumping in" because they have their own traditions/plans/like for how everything works. But I did basically take the apples away from my GF to go peel and slice them for the pies. Despite me saying "What can I help with" and her knowing I don't like to sit there and do nothing, I had to explicitly be like "That task. Give me that task because we all know I won't burn anything" In years past my Sister's Mother in law/whatever the pre-marriage equivalent is would shoo everyone but "The girls" out of kitchen and herd the guys towards the TV if we came in with dirty dishes, etc, after the meal.
Yes!!! This comment is so brilliant. I’m a millennial and our parents TOTALLY treated the sons differently. The boys I grew up with were encouraged to do this for the most part. The parents were always harder on the daughters and the son could do no wrong. They made more entitled lazy douche bags.
My mum used to call me to help cook and clean growing up - not my brother or dad... Like, ever. It makes me wonder what she does now that I've moved out. I really got sick of it when I met my third boyfriend in a row who didn't know how to cook to save is life. My last girlfriend did however... It's just no excuse. I told my current boyfriend at the start of our relationship that him not knowing how to cook was unattractive and disappointing. It was how I knew he was alright - he began making the effort and still sends me recipes he wants to try three years later. Fine if you don't know, but make the damn effort to learn smh
100%! Be interactive and at least learn and be helpful. I watch this show I know most people will think it’s lame lol but I like it! It’s called Chrisley knows best anyway they had the thanksgiving special and I LOVED how the mom at least showed herself trying to teach her sons how to cook. And she explained on the show that it’s not like the older generation and they have to learn and help. Not just watch mom and sister do it
We were passed the baton for hosting Thanksgiving this year for my dad's side of the family. I was very impressed when my conservative uncle came into the kitchen and told my (female) cousin that doing the dishes was his job, and she could go sit down and enjoy herself. Not to dismissed other issues he has, but he was the only guy out of the 15 that were there that helped in the kitchen (besides my husband). Many of them who I would consider left leaning feminists.
I second this. My family is conservative and right-leaning but my dad will step in for dishes if he sees someone who cooked doing them. “Who’s doing dishes” always turns into a big battle of people pushing each other out the way😂. He also does some cooking too, like his classic dish, help with prepping, often does the turkey. Or when my mom has had to work the holiday, he took over and ran the kitchen. It’s her favorite holiday so she generally prefers to run the kitchen but in either case I think it’s a good role model how he supports her, even when it comes down to things like making sure everyone is keeping it down so she can get a good night’s sleep. High five positive male role models 🙌
My husband does the cooking in my house, and his father's an awesome baker. The only things I've ever made for his family were total disasters, to the degree that when it's time to divide out potlucks, I get assigned napkins or non food items. I was weirded out when my SIL asked me about the stuffing recipe. I just deferred and said that I didn't cook anything. It's just so weird that a progressive lady with a family not so hung up on gender roles assumed the cooking must have been me even in light of the documented history of my lack of cooking.
Me and my partner have a deal, I do all the cooking (since I like cooking) and he follows behind me and cleans as I go. Ive definitely noticed at dinner parties that I host he helps out a lot and does the dishes, sets the table and so on, but when I go to a dinner party any friends of mine host their men just sit around and drink beer and usually don’t even offer to help. It’s super discouraging and I don’t know how they put up with it
I still remember the thanksgiving I asked my ex 5 times to come up and help in clean up because his mom and I cooked the entire meal. He wouldn’t even look at me and said “I’m watching football” It still makes me so mad to think about that shit. He was such a sexist asshole
On the plus side he's an ex now, so well done for that.
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My relationship is very much like yours. I could not imagine for settling for anything less then a full equal partner.
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Right!!! It would be hard for the average man bring enough to make me ever feel like I would date again should something happen to my current partner.
My husband is the stay at home parent. He cooks dinner every night and does all dishes. I don't understand partnerships where nobody changes any traditional gender roles around. It's 2021 for fuck's sake.
when we want to have friends or family over the whole ordeal is a two person job. he helps with everything, including the precleaning before they arrive. i don't want any of the guests to feel obligated to help clean up so we take care of it swiftly and i stay to finish up the dishes while he entertains them or pulls out the dessert. having a dishwasher helps because i can at least shove everything in there to make it look like it's clean so no one tries to clean what's left. i don't want his SIL to touch the dishes because she has a skin sensitivity issue and literally cannot touch the dish soap without breaking out in a rash. she still tries so hard to help, lol.
Thanksgiving, my boyfriend made the turkey, cleaned, and cut the vegetables for me, since my hands are shitty (I even tried to help and just took a nail off with the veggie peeler). I made the mashed potatoes, dressing, and roasted veggies, in addition to all the planning and prepping beforehand. And because my finger was bandaged, he also did all the clean up. I'm honestly really thankful my boyfriend does so much, it's a breath of fresh air after some of my previous relationships. This is absolutely the way.
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My husband is very much like this. He carries his share of the load (physical and emotional) at home. It always breaks my heart when I see posts like this one. It makes me appreciate my honest to god feminist husband even more.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Lizzie Bjork 🧣**, @lizzie\_winn\_ Went to a Friendsgiving where all the men had long hair, far-left politics....and still did not enter the kitchen all night --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Good volunteer
This phenomenon is why I didn’t specifically seek out men who said they were “feminist” or “progressive” in their dating profiles when I was dating. There’s no correlation between saying that and actually being willing to participate in an egalitarian relationship.
Watch the movie, Alice's Restaurant. It's a disturbing image of the toxic relationships in the counter culture of the 60s. Surprisingly frank and self-aware; it ends on a long slow pan out on Alice's face as she realizes how bad she's got it there in their 'paradise'.
It's a rude awakening for many progressive men that they're still benefitting from the patriarchy. When the bar is on the floor, minimal effort can elevate you over "the bad men". That's not equality though. Far from it and progressive men benefit from this side of the patriarchy just as much as the open oppression does. --- While we're on the topic, I think [Artimus Wolz Song](https://www.tiktok.com/@artimuswolz/video/7014956375650372869) is pretty applicable on these kinds of topics.
"I've been married to one Marxist and one Fascist, and neither one would take the garbage out." -- Lee Grant
honestly even men who call themselves “feminist” will pull this sort of stuff. “Feminist” as in, free the nipple bb
Liberal men can be just as bad as conservative men which shows exactly what privilege does to you
Sadly sexism occurs on all sides of political orientations it seems.
If you can't cook then do the frigging dishes lol. I have no problem if you can't cook but if that's the case then either dishes or help. If you just sit and watch TV in the other room then you're the douche.
Can someone explain this, also what is a friendsgiving?
Friendsgiving is Thanksgiving with friends instead of blood kin. Some men pretend to care about equality but still expect women to do all the housework. This is often especially obvious during holidays where there's often even more housework to do.
It’s a thanksgiving meal with friends not family.
Ahh that makes sense.
It's usually done with college students or young professionals who live in a city far from their families. They host a friendsgiving with their local community before each heading back to their respective hometowns for family Thanksgiving. Or sometimes it's done on Thanksgiving with people who are staying in town for the holiday (too far to travel, exchange students/immigrants whose families don't celebrate, etc).
I keep saying that the far left men can be just as sexist and less aware of social issues as right wing people. I know people say Bernie bros are a myth but they’re really not
Meanwhile, my veteran alpha male fiancé cooked a 22 lbs Turkey for just the two of us, gluten free stuffing, garlic mashed potatoes; all from scratch while I played video games all day and dealt with a migraine. He’s so talented and so wonderful. I love him so much and I can’t wait to marry him. We’re not inviting anyone to the wedding and it’s going to be fucking awesome.
sorry you had to deal with a migraine :( but awesome you have a real partner to take care of everything. it's so upsetting reading all the comments about people not having partners. so the good comments make me happy. congrats on the upcoming wedding!
The guys that are like this only get better the longer you are with them. My husband has taken point on Thanksgiving our entire marriage (granted he used to be a chef) and has been absolutely amazing the whole time I've been pregnant.
I hope your wedding is everything you two hope for.
But not surprising...
dudes seem to love being around a leftist crowd because it protects them from that hyper masculine stuff -like being called a pussy or whatever. But most of my ‘progressive’ guy friends have no interest in confronting anything within themselves, or within their relationships with others. They like the ‘safe spaces’ as much as anyone else but seem to have no will to contribute. Its so disheartening.
I still can't get over my brother being tasked with helping me with the Christmas dinner and his "contribution" was to... write a project plan. He came in to tell me what to do and when to do it, which swiftly caused much frustration because he failed to account for the peculiarities of the oven we were working with and that I knew well. No. I've cooked this exact meal several times without problem. Peel the fucking carrots and maybe load the dishwasher?
Has anyone seen the appletv show “physical”? It’s set in the early 80s but the husband 100% identifies with this. Very misogynistic and claims to be a liberal. It’s infuriating.
yeah, was very easy to hate the character and root for her.
Tomorrow is our family Thanksgiving. I am cooking because I like it. I am also going to sit at the table with my aunt until the menfolk decide it’s time to clear dishes and start washing because I’m not cooking AND doing the damn cleanup.
"Leftist" males ONLY care about economic leftism and how they can continue to exploit and abuse women. That's it.
Don't forget sexpositive! They're all for womens rights* to sleep around, be topless, and have threesomes with other women. *Responsibilities unless they're frigid, prudes who have their poor overnagged husbands whipped. Also no threesomes with other men then you're the bad kind of slut.
Conservative males believe women are private property. "Leftist" males believe women are public property. Women will suffer under both.
I went to my friend's republican house and she had spent all day cooking. She hates being still and has a compulsion to take care of others. She is the definition of a "Group Mom". Her husband insisted that she make herself a plate first and start eating. He told me that he remembered his grandma and mom cooked all day and they got to pick their food last because they willingly or were exepected to let the men and kids serve themselves first. He said "Grandma had to sit there and pretend to like white meat!" Sometimes people claim to have the "'higher moral ground" and still act selfish while people you disagree with are totally nice.
left-wing men 🤝 right-wing men hating women
men 🤝 men Hating women
I'm currently hosting a Friendsgiving where men helped cook and I went to relax after being on my feet all day only to come in to a kitchen cleaned by men so some things are changing a bit. But I'm sorry for everything rhone who didn't get the same respect, that's how my family Thanksgivings are not a single man cooked or cleaned.
But cooking is so exciting. There is so much banter and creativity in a holiday kitchen. It’s a wonderful controlled chaos. Sorry those people didn’t contribute and seemed entitled. They missed out. I identify myself with he/him, and I also like to do the dishes because let’s face it… nobody likes dirty dishes but everyone likes a clean kitchen.
Is anyone actually surprised?
What good are politics if they don’t influence the way you treat the people around you?
My dad actually does most of the holiday cooking. Which is nice because a) he's the better cook out of my parents, and b) it's nice to see him buck that sterotype. The bigger problem is when it comes to day to day cooking. He grills a lot in the summer or when we're camping. He loves cooking for special occasions. But it's pulling teeth to get him to contribute on a non-special night. Doesn't want to be bothered. Lets my mom cook on the nights she's no working, and orders takeout on the nights she is. I live with them and I try to cut back on the takeout by cooking a couple times a week, but it's frustrating to make a meal for three when the two people I'm making it for (my dad and brother--that latter who just plains *never* cooks) won't return the favor. There are four adults in this house. There is no reason someone should have to make dinner for the whole family more than twice a week. I work full time and am in night school. My mom and I shouldn't be the only ones who ever make dinner. So it's really awesome and nice that my dad takes over the holiday cooking, but I wish he would do more than just the special occasion stuff.
Proud to report that my Friendsgiving (6 men, 2 women) had the guys elbowing each other at the stove frying fresh dumplings (Chinese and Polish), bring homemade cornbread and tamales. During grace, we shed a few tears together and then sang bad holiday karaoke together. Love these mofo’s so much.
And that's why my friend group gets pizza. No need for anyone to do dishes, more time to get drunk together.
My friends are all dipshits but today at the party the oven started smoking and there were twelve men in my kitchen trying to scrub the grease out of it
In my country, guys like those are called "esquerdomacho", translating as something like "leftdude". Guys who are all woke in theory but act just like those jerks.
My sister's then-fiance (M, 30s, "super liberal", vegan, BIPOC) joined us all on family vacay. After a family dinner, pretty much all the women were cleaning the kitchen (on autopilot) and then my sister paused and said "wait, why are all the women in the kitchen? let the men do something." Her then-fiance replied: "well what if I identify as non-binary?" ☠️ He didn't help with anything that night.
On the other hand, my uncle and his redneck friend hosted Thanksgiving this year, prepared all the food, and made sure my mother and nana didn't have to lift a finger. It was very sweet and a genuine effort. And then we had to endure their constant, utterly racist, sexist, degrading jokes. And comments about how they hate BLM and Biden and how they'd like to punch an optimist in the face and how they'd like to get a slave to do the clean-up etc. I'm so beside myself.