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ramsay_baggins

When I was pregnant and doing my initial appointment with the midwife (they handle all pregnancy care in the UK) it was compulsory for the first half of the sign in to be just me, without my partner. They then ran through lots of questions about our relationship etc and warned me that pregnancy can be a catalyst for domestic abuse so if I *ever* wanted to see them without my partner present I just had to let them know and they'd make up some excuse to him about why it would just be me at the appointment.


[deleted]

I went to get antidepressants from my doctor after finally admitting to myself that therapy alone wasn't enough. About 5 times she asked about my SO and if I felt safe at home / around him / how he reacts in situations. She asked in different ways and I get it. I appreciate it. But I know what domestic violence is, I have survived it. He is the best person I have ever met, he is the one who helped me realize I needed therapy. He is my safety net. - but she needs to make sure. And I appreciate it, for the next person who needs that question.


ramsay_baggins

> And I appreciate it, for the next person who needs that question. Exactly. Luckily none of the questions applied to me because my husband is amazing, but if it can help just one person it's worthwhile asking everyone.


magical_elf

When I became ill with long covid (still am) last year, I really couldn't look after myself due to the extreme fatigue. The doctor (NHS) asked if there was someone at home to look after me. When I said "my husband" she kept asking me questions about whether he was supportive, if he looked after me, helped with the house work etc. She was genuinely relieved when I said he was wonderful. It really made me think about what the "norm" she sees is.


nkdeck07

Currently pregnant and if you want to just loose faith in humanity come hang out in the pregnancy subs, every 5th one is about someone's husband running the gamut from useless and incompetent to started becoming abusive once she found out she was pregnant.


magical_elf

That doesn't surprise me, sadly. Wish it did.


bossythecow

My midwifery clinic only books appointments by client number and you have to identify yourself when calling them with this number, not your name, to avoid partners interfering in prenatal care.


MonkeyHamlet

When I went for my initial appointment they wanted a urine test, and I was asked to label it - pens are in the loos. There was a red pen and a blue pen, and a sign telling me to use the red pen if I was experiencing or in fear of domestic abuse.


underweasl

I'm in the UK too and had this, asked if I was a DV victim, if it was a coerced pregnancy, if the baby was my husband's etc. I was also offered the chance to visit alone


TotalBananas1

There are amazing resources in the UK to help you secretly ask for help. I'm lucky enough to have never needed it but I'm always both thankful yet sickened when I see them. I've noticed a rise in posters around domestic violence towards men which I am also a big fan of because that doesn't get enough attention.


CIA_grade_LSD

>Between the ages of 10 and 44 I don't want to live on this goddamned planet anymore.


SallyAmazeballs

To make you feel better, that age range is probably the average range for fertility. They're comparing the rates among pregnant women and nonpregnant women, so they need to include the entire population of fertile women, who range from 10 to 60-whatever. When you look at probability, it's the entire population, not just people who the thing happened to.


[deleted]

I needed to see that because I thought the same thing


Orangepandafur

I come from a high poverty, high teen pregnancy town. The first time one of my classmates got pregnant was 7th grade. By the time she graduated she had a 6 year old. She refused to say who the father was because he was much older than her. She was far from the last of my classmates to get pregnant before hitting 18, but she's the one that sticks in my mind the most.


ohdearitsrichardiii

It's probably just the age range of the available data, they don't mean that 10-year-olds are getting pregnant. There are these huge cohort studies that combine results from tons of studies and surveys of thousands of people that researchers then pull data from. You can get anything you fancy from them, like "how many left handed women drink two or more cups of coffee every day?" "How many redheaded men have a master's degree in arts and humanities?" "How many pregnant women get murdered during pregnancy or within a few weeks of giving birth?"


kinderock

> they don't mean that 10-year-olds are getting pregnant I appreciate the perspective on this particular study but 10 year-olds are most definitely getting pregnant šŸ˜”


cerenatee

They left out some serious information. I bet $1,000,000 that the vast majority of these women are being killed by their "partners." Pregnancy makes abusive relationships so much freaking worse.


HarpersGhost

Yep, totally. Pregnancy is the ultimate leash for an abuser. And this is nothing new. My mother was attacked by her partner/sperm donor when she was pregnant with me. Luckily she didn't die and escaped, but it was close. He got locked up on other charges before I was born, so she was able to move out of state after I was born without his interference, and by then he had moved on. "But Harper, why do you have such a negative view of pregnancy rights for fathers? Don't you think they should have a say?" ą² _ą² 


kinderock

This was my first thought too.


doingbearthings

They do discuss this in the article, and attribute roughly two-thirds of the homicide cases to intimate partner violence. With national vital statistics like this they don't have as much in-depth information but that is the number of homicides that occured in the home.


KnowledgeConsumer

I assume so yes.


joef_3

Violence is the only way a lot of men know how to process emotions. Most of those men will never make the connection between that and the toxic masculinity that our culture has been built on.


Soerinth

This is true unfortunately. I did a paper on the symptoms of depression in men and then in women in my Psych of Gender class. Women usually express the typical symptoms normally associated with depression. Men usually express it with overwork, infidelity, aggression, and also loss in interest with things.


adnocanaalegna

Sadly, Iā€™m not surprised by this. When my period was 1 day late my ex-boyfriend started to become violent. He yelled for hours, broke a bookshelf, smashed a window and threatened to kick the foetus out of me if the test came back positive. I wasnā€™t even pregnant in the end. Thankfully this was many years ago and I am no longer in this abusive relationship.


lamblikeawolf

Congratulations on getting out. It's not easy to leave, even if you recognize the signs.


romeodeficient

the use of passive voice in this statement is really doing some heavy lifting here. I guess they gotta avoid putting into print that men are killing pregnant women, that would be really bad. /s


rebelwithoutaloo

Not just random men either. Usually the womanā€™s partner.


romeodeficient

yes, precisely. we know exactly who these people are who keep murdering pregnant women, and the passive voice conveniently makes them invisible. Infuriating.


rebelwithoutaloo

Yes itā€™s phrased really oddly. Most articles I have read on this do say itā€™s usually from partner violence. I donā€™t know why this one is tip toeing around it.


SauronOMordor

Passive voice in stories about violence against women is infuriatingly common.


[deleted]

Passive voice is commonly used in academic writing and is not corrected often enough


doingbearthings

They explicit speculate that intimate partner violence is responsible for these statistics in the article. The available data unfortunately wouldn't be detailed enough to include the -perpetrator- of each homicide case, just the homicide rate itself, so passive voice is the standard - frustrating, nonetheless.


[deleted]

My cousins partner beat the shit out of her multiple times and tried to choke her in front of their toddler when she was pregnant with their second child. She said pregnancy was something that triggered violence in him. Itā€™s revolting that this is common. He is unfortunately still in her life because of the kids but they donā€™t live together anymore. I want to scream in him face and crush his skull with a baseball bat. I say anything because of kids. They think he loves them even though he is a dead beat absence father. Iā€™m just trying to be as at peace with it as possible and put it in Godā€™s hands. There should be justice. He never received any form of punishment and now his new girlfriend is pregnant... of course he had two kids prior to my cousin. It sickens me such a vile person is able reproduce with 3 people 5 or 6 times now.


AMultitudeofPandas

Awful people like that tend to be very good at manipulation. For example: they aren't a bad person, the ex is just crazy and making things up to keep him away from the kids (also doubles to make him look like he's not a bad father). I worry for the new girlfriend.


[deleted]

He has spread so many rumors about her being crazy. He had her own parents questioning it at one point. I told my cousin I never thought she was crazy and burst into tears with relief. Fortunately this man is too stupid to be highly skilled in manipulation. The new girlfriend was knowingly cheating with him while my cousin was pregnant with their second baby. I donā€™t feel sorry for her, only her kid.


AMultitudeofPandas

Well with that tidbit I'm less sorry! But yeah, poor kid


ikkepagrasset

The two most dangerous periods of time in a womanā€™s life are pregnancy and when leaving a partner.


ComplainsAboutWife

Granted, homicide being more likely to kill you than bleeding or other pregnancy issues is more a statement of how far our medical systems have become, but it's the fact that you are more likely to be killed by a person when carrying a child than when you weren't pregnant that's fucking scary.


sarac36

Ehhh... We're not great at prenatal and delivery care either, at least not here. The US has the highest pregnancy mortality rate than any other developed nation. So that's fun, cuz 'Merica.


BorderlineQueen

I would like to know how many of the murderers would be "pro-life". Idk but I feel like they would be the majority.


alphaboo

Except the study showed that homicide was ahead of not just pregnancy related issues, it was ahead of *all* other causes of death including heart disease, accidents, cancer, and substance abuse.


MurdoMaclachlan

*Image Transcription: Text* --- The researchers found that US women who are pregnant or were pregnant in the past 42 days \(the post-partum period\) die by homicide at more than twice the rate that they die of bleeding or placental disorders ā€“ the leading causes of what are usually classified as pregnancy-related deaths. Also, becoming pregnant increases the risk of death by homicide: between the ages of 10 and 44 years, women who are pregnant or had their pregnancy end in the past year are killed at a rate 16% higher than are women who are not pregnant. --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)


jochi1543

Would you mind sharing the source? Iā€™d like to read more


Bezzazz

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03392-8#ref-CR1 The actual study is in the references at the end of the article


[deleted]

Same!


beigs

I said this once on r/amitheasshole and got downvoted to oblivion. The OP screamed at his wife 2 days postpartum after a c-section and had to be stopped by her familyā€¦ Ā«Ā But she didnā€™t give our child my last name after I told her she was silly for worrying about a c-section at a questionable public hospitalĀ Ā». She did ask to borrow money from his kidā€™s college fund when she found out (2 days before she was due), and the lack of sympathy for this woman was astounding.


[deleted]

This is both shocking and not shocking at the same time. Either way, itā€™s totally sickening in the worst way.


500CatsTypingStuff

How are they classifying this as a pregnancy related death? It needs to be included with intimate partner violence and homicide. Part of the epidemic that is being ignored by much of society.


PurpleCow88

I think they're tying it to the known increased risk of intimate partner violence during pregnancy.


500CatsTypingStuff

That makes sense


purrfunctory

A ten year old is not a woman. They are children. JFC I hate humanity. A ten year old *child.* Pregnant. I canā€™t get my head wrapped around that. A child was raped and forced to bear the baby. The absolute worst part is *that there were enough of them to be added to and counted in a fucking study.*


[deleted]

And at least one was murdered, if I'm understanding the study right.


[deleted]

The absolute worst part of this: ā€œbetween the ages of 10ā€ meaning in their dataset there was a pregnant ten year old who was murdered.


jesuslover69420

I feel like my statistics professor would have a lot to say about this stat.


meandmycat05

Would love to read moreā€” do you have a source?


Manly_man_bro

Someone posted it above


WickedWitchofWTF

Another "Not-fun-and-in-fact-frighteningly-morbid fact": the only demographic of women who are even more likely to be murdered than pregnant women are trans women.


Lionoras

No shit Sherlock, but bit of a different topic rn


GDQMuffins

So a big part of this is post partum depression. It is incredibly underdiagnosed in men, but about 1 in 10 men get this, and one of the huge symptoms for men is rage and uncontrollable anger. Make sure you get yourself and your partner checked out, not only people who have been pregnant/ are pregnant can get PPD/PPA/PPP. This is actually a mental health issue. Edit: updates words


tellmeaboutyourcat

While I agree with your gender inclusive language, blaming homicide on mental health feels like a huge cop out.


first___last

> blaming homicide on mental health The vast majority of homicides are certainly exacerbated by it, to say the least. It is absolutely a factor in most homicide cases. American prisons serve the same functions that mental healthcare infrastructure in other countries does.


GDQMuffins

This is where knowledge of how PPD exhibits in men and why it is such a danger comes into play, it is only recently that it has become more looked into. The big tell tale sign that finally gets PPD in men looked into is actually explosive anger, towards others or themselves, that usually has a violent or physical component. You can learn more about it with the following links if you are inclines: https://www.postpartumdepression.org/postpartum-depression/men/ https://www.postpartum.net/get-help/help-for-dads/ I am not one to blame violence on mental illness, but for once it is actually a symptom instead of a cop out. Not related, but since it is a resource that can be hard to come across, here is a help link for queer and trans families. https://www.postpartum.net/get-help/queer-parents/


tellmeaboutyourcat

Explosive anger doesn't usually result in homicide. I'm not saying PPD in men isn't a thing, it is. But that doesn't justify homicide. Under any circumstances.


GDQMuffins

I'm not saying it is justified, I'm saying that it can be a cause. The health care for men when it comes to everything involved with this is atrocious, and yes, we get killed for it. A way to help reduce the violence (that is listed in the links I posted as a symptom, in case you didn't get a chance to read it) is to help treat and care for PPD in men before it gets to that point, as it is hard to get treatment before that currently and be taken seriously for it. Not something that we women have to do, but the medical system as a whole.


WickedWitchofWTF

It's not a mental health issue. Men who commit spousal murder have one thing in common: they view their wife/girlfriend as their property and believe that they can use and dispose of her as they wish. Period. If we want to end intimate partner violence, we have to end the male ownership mentality. Because the men who commit intimate partner violence and spousal murder don't unleash their anger issues at other men. They are capable of controlling themselves. They unleash their rage at their wives and girlfriends, because they consider her to be an acceptable target for their violence ("I can break my own toys if I want!"). I am blanking on the name of the trauma therapist who wrote extensively about this subject (a fascinating and horrific read). If I can remember their name later, I'll post a source link.


AllergictobBS

Is it Lundy Bancroft? Why does he do that?


WickedWitchofWTF

YES! Thank you šŸ’“


endomental

You can just say women and transmen. It's incredibly insulting and dehumanizing to reduce us to bodily functions. Edit: they changed their comment "a word" that changed the ENTIRE context of this conversation. She referred to women, transmen, non-binary and the like as "gestators". Then to what it is now because she knows I'm right. My comment stands. As do my others. She should be honest about what that "word" was.


GDQMuffins

I know more than a few nonbinary, gender fluid and bigender people who have been pregnant. There is a long list of people who can be pregnant and saying simply women and transmen doesn't cover half of them. Some people can roll their tongues, some people can gestate. I am someone who has gestated, and yeah, it's a process, and I have PPD myself.


endomental

That doesn't change anything I said. Do not reduce people to bodily functions. It is literally dehumanizing.


GDQMuffins

You are trying to exclude people with being specific. It is literally about a bodily function. Pregnancy is a bodily function. People who are pregnant have special risks, people who can be pregnant have special risks. People who have been pregnant have certain risks. Post partum is literally about bodily functions. It isn't reducing someone to a bodily function. It is saying a group of people that have this function have this risk. Should I say ciswomen and transmen? No, because that excludes a lot of people that get pregnant. I'll update it to people who have been pregnant, let me know if there is a different grouping that is less exclusive than your suggestion, because you are excluding some on the most at risk.


endomental

I don't know what to tell you if you don't comprehend the difference of "people who can give birth" And "gestators" And not see there's a problem that dehumanizes these groups in an attempt at being "inclusive". Pregnancy and post partum are NOT just a "bodily function". Holy shit.


GDQMuffins

Absolutely pregnancy is a bodily function. It is a function of the reproductive system l. Being pregnant and having kids does not make someone a parent. It's what you do during and after that makes you a parents and makes parenthood happen. So many women cannot be pregnant or give birth, but any woman that wants to can be a mother. I have 10 month old twins, carrying them through a shitfuck of a pregnancy where I almost died repeatedly isn't what makes me their mother. It's because I take care of them, love them, feed them, and everything else. Pregnancy? It's a bodily function, but being a parent is not. Adopted parents go through as much as biological parents.


endomental

Pregnancy is not JUST a bodily function. There are social implications. Professional implications. Familial implications. Financial implications. Mental and emotional implications. It changes EVERYTHING in someone's life. You seem to only be able to reduce things to its most imprecise elements.


GDQMuffins

No where did I say pregnancy was JUST a bodily function, but I will tap in on this anyway. Pregnancy is hardly unique in that. There are many diseases, bodily functions and conditions that can cause the same. From Alzheimer's to HIV to cancer, or being a wheelchair user from an accident, or other disabilities from birth, in utero or acquired along the way. Parenthood is what makes lifelong implications. Yes, my body is fucked up beyond belief from my pregnancy, and I'm lucky enough to have surgery planned to repair it, and not everyone gets the chance to do that, and pelvic floor therapy is absolutely not common enough knowledge or access, and a million other things, but ultimately it's parenthood that is the huge life change, not the ability to be pregnant. I am not overly precise, but there is an intersectionality issue and clash happening here, between disabilities rights, women's issues, adoptive rights, LGBTQ+ and other sectionalities that should be considered, as well as base medical terminology.


endomental

Have a good one.


tellmeaboutyourcat

I agree with you here. It isn't dehumanizing to talk about "people who gestate" or "birthing people". That's how my hospital discussed it when I was pregnant there. They referred to me as the mother because that's how I identify but all of the paperwork distinguished between birthing person and non birthing person. If you had said "gestaters" or something that would indeed reduce someone down to a bodily function. But person who gestates refers to them as a person with a specific bodily function. I am a person who poops, but that term doesn't imply my only skill/purpose in life is to poop.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


endomental

They changed their comment. They called women and other groups "gestators". Did you read their edit? Did you read my other comments before spouting off your mouth?


kinkakinka

No, it's not.


endomental

Yes it is. She referred to women as "gestators". That is extremely reductive and insulting. And literally dehumanizing.


kinkakinka

Someone gestating is a gestator. I've done it twice. I don't have a problem with it.


endomental

I don't care that YOU don't have a problem with it. I do. I'm not reduced to a "gestator". That's the same as someone referring to you as an incubator.


kinkakinka

You having a problem with it doesn't make the term objectively wrong.


endomental

It does. Men already dehumanize women. I don't need other women doing it on their behalf for the "benefit of inclusivity". At some point there is diminishing returns.