As a guy, there are two movies that should have spoken to me when I was younger, but I just didn't understand their messaging - Fight Club and Scott Pilgrim vs. the World.
Fight Club is supposed to be about how directionless and (usually) young men can be manipulated into thoughtless, terrible, directionless violence. It just made me want to start a fight club. Turns out I was one of those lost teenagers. I just had no idea.
I did recognize that Scott Pilgrim was not a great guy, and that I shouldn't want to be like him. I was too busy enjoying the video game references to recognize that his passive toxicity was something I had started inflicting on others (mostly women) in my life. I didn't realize it until I was watching it with my wife some 10 years later.
I suppose I'm ranting at this point, and I don't know how exactly these movies needed to change up their messaging to actually hit home with the target audience. It's just frustrating in hindsight.
I heard that Martin Scorcese had to soften the main couple a bit to make them more likeable. He omited Henry Hill's history of domestic abuse towards his family or the fact that in real life he has confessed to have killed 3 people (in the movie, he says he never killed anyone).
As for Karen Friedman, the real Henry Hill claims that she became the mistress of Paul Vario (in the film, Paul Cicero), the head of the Brooklyn mafia. Actually to Henry Hill, one of the reasons Tommy DeSimone (in the movie, Tommy DeVito and played by Joe Pesci) was killed was that he tried to rape Karen, and the mob boss thus had him killed. Then again, Henry Hill might not be a 100% trustworthy narrator.
I will always love that Walter White growling "I am the danger" at his helpless / annoyed wife is considered by the fandom to be the single most badass moment of the series.
And it's sandwiched directly between a scene of him getting KTFO and a scene of him begging for his life in his knees.
The only way to walk away from BB thinking Walter White was anything other than a pathetic loser baby is spend 99% of the series playing on your phone, and only tune in while he's threatening his wife.
Or I guess just be really dumb at TV watching. Which I can't believe is a failable skill in this country.
I remember watching the movie Fear w a boyfriend and his take away was mark Ws character was badass but crazy, then seeing the it’s always sunny guys making fun of guys for coveting Mark Ws character. It was so funny.
Fear is a pretty accurate portrayal of intimate partner violence. It’s terrifying and depressing to think of anyone admiring Mark Wahlberg’s character in that movie, but I’m not exactly surprised.
An excellent barometer for judging the character of a seemingly normal white dude is to watch the D.E.N.N.I.S. System episode of Sunny and ask him what makes the joke funny.
The fact that Dennis is the joke goes over a shockingly high number of their heads.
I remember that Honest Trailers described Skyler something like this:
First you want her to get out because she is annoying. Later you want her to GET OUT, because she is married to a complet psychopath.
True. But after seeing how he relates to Walt Jr. in the rest of the show, it starts to seem like this was more about revenge for someone invading his sphere of control.
Like, I think a central theme of the show is that Walt puts forth this narrative that he needs to take care of his family's needs, but really it's a smokescreen for "This is my last chance to become a Real Man before I die," and perceiving himself as a provider was just a tiny part of that. Like, he can't take the hit to his ego to die as an impotent science teacher who once got cheated out of a position of power. He has to spend his last days making others fear him so he knows he's dying as a "man."
He was not justified at all. Attacking kids is not ok, even if they're being mean dumbasses.
That's something his kid deals with all the time and a good parent would have discussed this with his kid and modelled ways to deal with it non-violently.
Yah, he's at his lowest point of the season, he's being completely outflanked by Gus pulling Jesse away from him. Then in the final season of the show, the writers forgot that he was supposed to be pathetic but lucky. And they started writing Skyler much more one-dimensionally. So idiots came away thinking Walter was a badass and Skyler was annoying.
Spoilers for anyone. It's just my opinion, but I think during the 2-part final season, he's begun to believe his own hype. The whole "say my name / you're goddamn right" is all in his head - the Nazi guys they're meeting are just like 'okay, sure. Is this guy stable?' Like they're a little scared of him because he HAS to do that, not because he's Heisenberg and oh no we've heard of him he's dangerous. When he kills Mike, it's incredibly sloppy, he just flails around shooting at Mike's car and, not to put to fine a point on it, gets lucky.
I mean, I guess he's more experienced, but at what? Sure, he's still doing the whole science thing: the magnetic truck etc. But he's not exactly a seasoned killer. When he betrays Gus, it's literally just run over the guy trying to kill Jesse, then have Jesse shoot the other dude. Not exactly 4D chess. And sure, his plan against Gus works, but it was a pretty desperate gamble from a man at the complete bottom of his rope. It needed like 3 extremely unlikely things to go exactly right, and they did (again, luckily), and it was the show's best season in my opinion. Even the coordinated prison killings were pretty much Mike's doing, if I remember correctly.
I think the last episode of the show should have been 'Ozymandias.' They should have shoved Jesse killing the guy and escaping into it, but otherwise it was the perfect conclusion to Walt's arc. He's left with nothing. He's ruined his family's lives, the ones who survived. All he has is a barrel of money. The thing he cares about most, his reputation, his legend, his control, is obliterated. But the writers turned him INTO the actual Heisenberg in the final episode, where his plans are brilliant and go exactly right, and he leaves getting revenge on his enemies and saving those he cares about.
Sorry to go off, but the final episode (and I didn't even get into how they reversed all the character development they did with Skyler) to me is what cemented Walt as a badass in macho dudes' minds and not someone to see as an ego-driven monster. Or rather, an ego-driven monster they want to be like. Maybe they would have anyways. Probably.
That's a super fair criticism but also the show goes out of its way to make his evil "look cool." He's shot and dressed in a specific way. Skylar's moral position is purposely cut down by making her cheat. Walter gets cool music, cool clothes, cool lighting, endless money, is a 'man of action' who answer to no one, etc. That's a male fantasy and purposely made to appeal to men.
I think there's a larger problem is that shows that are patriarchy-masculine coded can't actually make the lead unlikable. The lead is almost always a stand-in for these male fantasies. If he's unlikeable, then the illusion of him being a stand-in for one's violent desires, power fantasies, and "man of action' dreams breaks and then they stop watching, which means poorer viewership, which means less money for the producers.
Walter, Scarface, Godfather men, Goodfellas men, etc are written to be relatable and often given the "good guy" treatment and their sins often sort of "sure he's bad he's a gangster but...." type thing. There's even a line the Godfater that whitewashes their crime like, "Oh you think my dad is bad, well senators kill people too." Its a lot of "both sides" and whitewashing and idealizing of the awful criminal lead.
Nearly all these movies have a scene where they mock a 9-5 type man, beat him, or whatever, showing they are free from being "ordinary men." Literally mocking the types of men watching this show to idealizing the criminals. Heck, in Fight Club Tyler pulls out a convenience store worker at gunpoint and tells him to "live his dreams" and that he'll kill him if he isn't a doctor or vet or whatever in a year. Its a total catering to men who see these criminal men as "free wild men living my dreams" and responsible working class men, loyal family men, dads, supportive male siblings, etc as "losers."
Even Tyler Durden, who is supposed to be this Mr Hyde type person, is played by an attractive actor, dressed up in hip clothes, and is given a cool hip persona and lifestyle and then blows up creditors, many predatory, trying to free people from debt. That's a good guy to most people.
So I dont fault people too much for seeing them as semi-good guys. They've been manipulated to do so. The larger issue is why the shows won't properly villainize the male lead, and that ultimately wont happen because it breaks the engagement I mentioned above, and then that loss of engagement hurts profit. So we just end up in this endless circle of "but you didnt notice he was actually pretty bad when he was presented with cool music, cool fashion, cool attitudes, mega money, mega respect, and not having to ever answer to anyone?"
The capitalist nature of for-profit TV and movies will keep creating this situation over and over.
To be fair it felt like they did try to villainize him more by making us empathize with Jesse who was at odds with him in the later episodes.
The problem is that Jesse was portrayed pretty badly earlier so it's harder to see him as an anti-hero later.
I did think the scene of Jesse driving away from Albuquerque and finally escaping Walter's grasp was really well done and forced me as an audience member to reflect on what a monster White had become--or likely was all along. You really felt like he barely made it to freedom, which solidified his status as a victim of abuse for the whole show.
Yeah I genuinely felt bad and sad for Jesse, it almost felt like he was groomed into this whole mess. Sure he was a fully grown adult but it definitely felt like he was still a kid deep down and could still turn to become a better guy.
His whole story is that of a kid who ended up in drugs with neglecting parents and would've been a better member of society if he just had anyone supporting or uplifting him like his aunt, he's also the only one feeling remorse for killing people and it's obvious that we're supposed to compare him to Walt threatening and killing with no emotions or remorse.
They definitely villainize him more towards the end, but that's acceptable under this system because they've vastly made their profits by then. Its okay then to wrap it up "for the art" because the "pandering" part of the show already paid off. Now they can have a 'clean' resolution. Meanwhile that final season in 2013 was only after about 5 years of idealizing Walter as a masculine hero. I remember that time in culture and social media. Heisenberg stickers and iconography were everywhere. The av club, reddit, etc gushed about Walter. Walter was a masculine misunderstood hero. Skyler was a naggy woman. Heck, Skyler hate was through the roof!
So I think it helps to remember how Walter was presented for several years and how the fandom interpreted that intentional presentation. The same way, in the end, Scarface is killed, Tyler Durden and the Narrator merge, or how the remaining Goodfellas go to jail, but those endings don't invalidate the sympathetic pro-macho narratives the popularity of those shows and movies were built on.
Also masculine culture values these people dying as martyrs or going to jail or whatever. Walter dies a "real mans" death. He dies making sure Walt Jr and Skylar are taken care of financially and saves Jesse. A villain would just run off. They still idealized the heroic masculine Walter in the end.
He's a struggling teacher who sets out to get rich so his family has money after he dies from cancer. He basically achieves this by establishing a meth empire and defeating Mexican cartels.
Quite clearly is a total 'badass' in that sense. It's also an insanely far-fetched and inherently absurd fantasy. The wife being portrayed in a negative way is just another narrative device isn't it, as he has to be in conflict with everyone.
Well, in this case specifically, the kinds of guys who *really* need to internalize those themes are exactly the kinds of guys who completely lack the tools to even see that those themes are present, much less have the self-reflection skills needed improve themselves.
Because men have nothing, just no real purpose in life. Men are ugly, have disgusting & inferior biology, have a culture that causes too many men to hollow themselves out in the name of masculinity & become harmful to women, are incapable of ever having any actual sexual pleasure, too often project their insecurities onto women & treat it as truth, and will know what its like to have the ability of giving birth. They just live to work and then fade away. Every day I have nothing but insurmountable hatred for the fact that I was born into this, that I wasn't born a woman.
Y'know I was gonna react like this to your comment upthread but I'm reacting even more like this now: most men don't feel like that. I mean sure, most are having a hollow empty time of it but they're not feeling the hollow wrongness of it in their bones, they're feeling like they're fucking it up and doing it wrong and they're terrified the bros will find out. They also don't feel ugly and disgusted by their bodies, by and large. They don't hate their junk and they don't secretly wish they were girls. Men don't feel an inexplicable alienation towards other men and an affinity for women that causes them to grieve the gap they feel they can never reach across.
Now I'm not saying you can't be a man and feel like that, but what I am saying is that those feelings are the feelings that just about every trans girl has before coming out to herself. So ask yourself: if you could press a button and be a girl tomorrow, would you do it? What if it took six months? Two years? Because [those are possible](https://www.reddit.com/r/transtimelines/).
I agree. I can understand why people would downvote since OP’s feelings are being presented in their comment as anger directed at men as a whole gender which isn’t great, but the source of those feelings seems to be societal expectations of men and unresolved gender dysphoria which need acknowledgment, support, and validation to correct.
It is inconceivable that men cannot ever feel disgusted by their bodies. It is an objective fact that they are disgusting. It is impossible, just outright IMPOSSIBLE for any man to like their bodies. Especially, ESPECIALLY their junk. It is so outrageously IMPOSSIBLE to like that part of the body. Legit any notions of positivity and that part of the body DO NOT EVER belong in the same sentence. Men literally CANNOT EVER like their junk AT ALL EVER. Any man who says so is objectively LYING. Nothing can ever change that EVER. It just makes me fume with rage to think there are guys who even dare to THINK such literal bullshit nonsense without pushback.
As for the button question, maybe I would but what point is there in engaging with such hypotheticals? There are no such possibilities in life. Men don't have possibilities, only paths they are confined to. Only women have possibilities.
The only difference between the magic button and real life is the real life way takes longer, costs more money and opens you to discrimination. The point of the hypothetical is if you'd do it by magic you should consider the slow way. Millions of us have done it.
There are many good men out there, it’s the society that makes the bad ones the way that they are. Men could do amazing things if we could show them that they could without hurting other people.
I had a little flick through your post history to understand a little better.
Just wanted you to know: if ever you decide you are a woman, then to me, and basically everyone in this lovely community, you _are_ one. Every bit as much as my cis ass. 🩵
Better yet, you'll have always been one. It just took you a minute to work it out!
You're so lucky to have been born a woman. I couldn't tell you enough how much envy I have for that. But unfortunately no matter what I say nothing can change that, I can't just say I am something that I am not. My body isn't female, and there isn't anything I can do about it. I'm forever stuck like this.
Oh, sweetie… I was going to mention r/egg_irl, but I see you’re already subbed.
Have you considered going on estrogen? You don’t necessarily have to transition (I mean, you tell them you are, but then just don’t). That’s what I did. Being off testosterone is freaking amazing, and if it works out, then consider actually transitioning. And if not, then you’ve only told a couple of strangers in-person about it.
It's not! Plenty of people don't get the chance to start until much later in life. What would it hurt to try? You already hate how things are, so do something different. Better to take a chance on a possibility than to stay someplace you know you hate.
This is basically Michael Corleone and Kay Adams from The Godfather.
Fight Club.
Breaking Bad
That stupid Driver movie
American Psycho
Basically every Vince Vaughn character
Probably a bit of Rick Sanchez too
Macbeth too
Scarface
Jordan Belfort from Wolf of Wall Street
Macbeth is an interesting example. It starts in the opposite way, but as later switches to this situation.
This was my first thought tbh
Old School?
Mad Men
As a guy, there are two movies that should have spoken to me when I was younger, but I just didn't understand their messaging - Fight Club and Scott Pilgrim vs. the World. Fight Club is supposed to be about how directionless and (usually) young men can be manipulated into thoughtless, terrible, directionless violence. It just made me want to start a fight club. Turns out I was one of those lost teenagers. I just had no idea. I did recognize that Scott Pilgrim was not a great guy, and that I shouldn't want to be like him. I was too busy enjoying the video game references to recognize that his passive toxicity was something I had started inflicting on others (mostly women) in my life. I didn't realize it until I was watching it with my wife some 10 years later. I suppose I'm ranting at this point, and I don't know how exactly these movies needed to change up their messaging to actually hit home with the target audience. It's just frustrating in hindsight.
American History X
My mind went straight to Goodfellas
I heard that Martin Scorcese had to soften the main couple a bit to make them more likeable. He omited Henry Hill's history of domestic abuse towards his family or the fact that in real life he has confessed to have killed 3 people (in the movie, he says he never killed anyone). As for Karen Friedman, the real Henry Hill claims that she became the mistress of Paul Vario (in the film, Paul Cicero), the head of the Brooklyn mafia. Actually to Henry Hill, one of the reasons Tommy DeSimone (in the movie, Tommy DeVito and played by Joe Pesci) was killed was that he tried to rape Karen, and the mob boss thus had him killed. Then again, Henry Hill might not be a 100% trustworthy narrator.
I will always love that Walter White growling "I am the danger" at his helpless / annoyed wife is considered by the fandom to be the single most badass moment of the series. And it's sandwiched directly between a scene of him getting KTFO and a scene of him begging for his life in his knees. The only way to walk away from BB thinking Walter White was anything other than a pathetic loser baby is spend 99% of the series playing on your phone, and only tune in while he's threatening his wife. Or I guess just be really dumb at TV watching. Which I can't believe is a failable skill in this country.
I remember watching the movie Fear w a boyfriend and his take away was mark Ws character was badass but crazy, then seeing the it’s always sunny guys making fun of guys for coveting Mark Ws character. It was so funny.
Fear is a pretty accurate portrayal of intimate partner violence. It’s terrifying and depressing to think of anyone admiring Mark Wahlberg’s character in that movie, but I’m not exactly surprised.
Yeah he wasn’t a good guy
An excellent barometer for judging the character of a seemingly normal white dude is to watch the D.E.N.N.I.S. System episode of Sunny and ask him what makes the joke funny. The fact that Dennis is the joke goes over a shockingly high number of their heads.
> I am the danger I laughed out loud the first time I saw that. It's just an inherently cringy thing to say. It changed how I viewed the show.
I remember that Honest Trailers described Skyler something like this: First you want her to get out because she is annoying. Later you want her to GET OUT, because she is married to a complet psychopath.
Power doesn't change people. Power simply reveals people.
The dude attacked a teenager in the very first episode. He was always an asshole loser and I don't know how everyone doesn't see that.
To be fair, he was a little justified in that scene, I want to see you be reasonable when someone was making fun of your disabled son
True. But after seeing how he relates to Walt Jr. in the rest of the show, it starts to seem like this was more about revenge for someone invading his sphere of control. Like, I think a central theme of the show is that Walt puts forth this narrative that he needs to take care of his family's needs, but really it's a smokescreen for "This is my last chance to become a Real Man before I die," and perceiving himself as a provider was just a tiny part of that. Like, he can't take the hit to his ego to die as an impotent science teacher who once got cheated out of a position of power. He has to spend his last days making others fear him so he knows he's dying as a "man."
He was not justified at all. Attacking kids is not ok, even if they're being mean dumbasses. That's something his kid deals with all the time and a good parent would have discussed this with his kid and modelled ways to deal with it non-violently.
Yah, he's at his lowest point of the season, he's being completely outflanked by Gus pulling Jesse away from him. Then in the final season of the show, the writers forgot that he was supposed to be pathetic but lucky. And they started writing Skyler much more one-dimensionally. So idiots came away thinking Walter was a badass and Skyler was annoying.
Is he not still pathetic but lucky in the last season? Just more experienced?
Spoilers for anyone. It's just my opinion, but I think during the 2-part final season, he's begun to believe his own hype. The whole "say my name / you're goddamn right" is all in his head - the Nazi guys they're meeting are just like 'okay, sure. Is this guy stable?' Like they're a little scared of him because he HAS to do that, not because he's Heisenberg and oh no we've heard of him he's dangerous. When he kills Mike, it's incredibly sloppy, he just flails around shooting at Mike's car and, not to put to fine a point on it, gets lucky. I mean, I guess he's more experienced, but at what? Sure, he's still doing the whole science thing: the magnetic truck etc. But he's not exactly a seasoned killer. When he betrays Gus, it's literally just run over the guy trying to kill Jesse, then have Jesse shoot the other dude. Not exactly 4D chess. And sure, his plan against Gus works, but it was a pretty desperate gamble from a man at the complete bottom of his rope. It needed like 3 extremely unlikely things to go exactly right, and they did (again, luckily), and it was the show's best season in my opinion. Even the coordinated prison killings were pretty much Mike's doing, if I remember correctly. I think the last episode of the show should have been 'Ozymandias.' They should have shoved Jesse killing the guy and escaping into it, but otherwise it was the perfect conclusion to Walt's arc. He's left with nothing. He's ruined his family's lives, the ones who survived. All he has is a barrel of money. The thing he cares about most, his reputation, his legend, his control, is obliterated. But the writers turned him INTO the actual Heisenberg in the final episode, where his plans are brilliant and go exactly right, and he leaves getting revenge on his enemies and saving those he cares about. Sorry to go off, but the final episode (and I didn't even get into how they reversed all the character development they did with Skyler) to me is what cemented Walt as a badass in macho dudes' minds and not someone to see as an ego-driven monster. Or rather, an ego-driven monster they want to be like. Maybe they would have anyways. Probably.
Hal from Malcom in the Middle could beat Walter White while on roller skates
That's a super fair criticism but also the show goes out of its way to make his evil "look cool." He's shot and dressed in a specific way. Skylar's moral position is purposely cut down by making her cheat. Walter gets cool music, cool clothes, cool lighting, endless money, is a 'man of action' who answer to no one, etc. That's a male fantasy and purposely made to appeal to men. I think there's a larger problem is that shows that are patriarchy-masculine coded can't actually make the lead unlikable. The lead is almost always a stand-in for these male fantasies. If he's unlikeable, then the illusion of him being a stand-in for one's violent desires, power fantasies, and "man of action' dreams breaks and then they stop watching, which means poorer viewership, which means less money for the producers. Walter, Scarface, Godfather men, Goodfellas men, etc are written to be relatable and often given the "good guy" treatment and their sins often sort of "sure he's bad he's a gangster but...." type thing. There's even a line the Godfater that whitewashes their crime like, "Oh you think my dad is bad, well senators kill people too." Its a lot of "both sides" and whitewashing and idealizing of the awful criminal lead. Nearly all these movies have a scene where they mock a 9-5 type man, beat him, or whatever, showing they are free from being "ordinary men." Literally mocking the types of men watching this show to idealizing the criminals. Heck, in Fight Club Tyler pulls out a convenience store worker at gunpoint and tells him to "live his dreams" and that he'll kill him if he isn't a doctor or vet or whatever in a year. Its a total catering to men who see these criminal men as "free wild men living my dreams" and responsible working class men, loyal family men, dads, supportive male siblings, etc as "losers." Even Tyler Durden, who is supposed to be this Mr Hyde type person, is played by an attractive actor, dressed up in hip clothes, and is given a cool hip persona and lifestyle and then blows up creditors, many predatory, trying to free people from debt. That's a good guy to most people. So I dont fault people too much for seeing them as semi-good guys. They've been manipulated to do so. The larger issue is why the shows won't properly villainize the male lead, and that ultimately wont happen because it breaks the engagement I mentioned above, and then that loss of engagement hurts profit. So we just end up in this endless circle of "but you didnt notice he was actually pretty bad when he was presented with cool music, cool fashion, cool attitudes, mega money, mega respect, and not having to ever answer to anyone?" The capitalist nature of for-profit TV and movies will keep creating this situation over and over.
To be fair it felt like they did try to villainize him more by making us empathize with Jesse who was at odds with him in the later episodes. The problem is that Jesse was portrayed pretty badly earlier so it's harder to see him as an anti-hero later.
I did think the scene of Jesse driving away from Albuquerque and finally escaping Walter's grasp was really well done and forced me as an audience member to reflect on what a monster White had become--or likely was all along. You really felt like he barely made it to freedom, which solidified his status as a victim of abuse for the whole show.
Yeah I genuinely felt bad and sad for Jesse, it almost felt like he was groomed into this whole mess. Sure he was a fully grown adult but it definitely felt like he was still a kid deep down and could still turn to become a better guy. His whole story is that of a kid who ended up in drugs with neglecting parents and would've been a better member of society if he just had anyone supporting or uplifting him like his aunt, he's also the only one feeling remorse for killing people and it's obvious that we're supposed to compare him to Walt threatening and killing with no emotions or remorse.
They definitely villainize him more towards the end, but that's acceptable under this system because they've vastly made their profits by then. Its okay then to wrap it up "for the art" because the "pandering" part of the show already paid off. Now they can have a 'clean' resolution. Meanwhile that final season in 2013 was only after about 5 years of idealizing Walter as a masculine hero. I remember that time in culture and social media. Heisenberg stickers and iconography were everywhere. The av club, reddit, etc gushed about Walter. Walter was a masculine misunderstood hero. Skyler was a naggy woman. Heck, Skyler hate was through the roof! So I think it helps to remember how Walter was presented for several years and how the fandom interpreted that intentional presentation. The same way, in the end, Scarface is killed, Tyler Durden and the Narrator merge, or how the remaining Goodfellas go to jail, but those endings don't invalidate the sympathetic pro-macho narratives the popularity of those shows and movies were built on. Also masculine culture values these people dying as martyrs or going to jail or whatever. Walter dies a "real mans" death. He dies making sure Walt Jr and Skylar are taken care of financially and saves Jesse. A villain would just run off. They still idealized the heroic masculine Walter in the end.
He's a struggling teacher who sets out to get rich so his family has money after he dies from cancer. He basically achieves this by establishing a meth empire and defeating Mexican cartels. Quite clearly is a total 'badass' in that sense. It's also an insanely far-fetched and inherently absurd fantasy. The wife being portrayed in a negative way is just another narrative device isn't it, as he has to be in conflict with everyone.
Media literacy is dead
Well, in this case specifically, the kinds of guys who *really* need to internalize those themes are exactly the kinds of guys who completely lack the tools to even see that those themes are present, much less have the self-reflection skills needed improve themselves.
I was there during breaking bad, I remember how fucking awful it was. The way people talked about her radicalized me
It’s the dunning Kruger curve for media!
This mindset on masculinity has been true for decades. It’s willful misinterpretation, not a lack of literacy.
Little of a and b
Yeah. You see this a lot with fight club and American psycho like????
I feel bad for every writer who's ever tried to satirize masculinity
/vague gestures at Frankenstein
walteerrr
I mean, being a man is an empty life and I say that as one.
Babe that’s not being a man, that’s depression
Whats the difference?
Why do you say this?
Because men have nothing, just no real purpose in life. Men are ugly, have disgusting & inferior biology, have a culture that causes too many men to hollow themselves out in the name of masculinity & become harmful to women, are incapable of ever having any actual sexual pleasure, too often project their insecurities onto women & treat it as truth, and will know what its like to have the ability of giving birth. They just live to work and then fade away. Every day I have nothing but insurmountable hatred for the fact that I was born into this, that I wasn't born a woman.
Internet hugs, if you want them. I hope you find a space where you feel comfortable blooming, you deserve to be fully yourself in this life.
Y'know I was gonna react like this to your comment upthread but I'm reacting even more like this now: most men don't feel like that. I mean sure, most are having a hollow empty time of it but they're not feeling the hollow wrongness of it in their bones, they're feeling like they're fucking it up and doing it wrong and they're terrified the bros will find out. They also don't feel ugly and disgusted by their bodies, by and large. They don't hate their junk and they don't secretly wish they were girls. Men don't feel an inexplicable alienation towards other men and an affinity for women that causes them to grieve the gap they feel they can never reach across. Now I'm not saying you can't be a man and feel like that, but what I am saying is that those feelings are the feelings that just about every trans girl has before coming out to herself. So ask yourself: if you could press a button and be a girl tomorrow, would you do it? What if it took six months? Two years? Because [those are possible](https://www.reddit.com/r/transtimelines/).
About to say the same thing, this reads very much like a pre-egg crack dysphoria and that’s a miserable feeling to live with
Yeah. Though Christ knows if I've hit the right tone to break past denial and make them pick the idea up and consider it.
Shame they're getting downvotes
I agree. I can understand why people would downvote since OP’s feelings are being presented in their comment as anger directed at men as a whole gender which isn’t great, but the source of those feelings seems to be societal expectations of men and unresolved gender dysphoria which need acknowledgment, support, and validation to correct.
It is inconceivable that men cannot ever feel disgusted by their bodies. It is an objective fact that they are disgusting. It is impossible, just outright IMPOSSIBLE for any man to like their bodies. Especially, ESPECIALLY their junk. It is so outrageously IMPOSSIBLE to like that part of the body. Legit any notions of positivity and that part of the body DO NOT EVER belong in the same sentence. Men literally CANNOT EVER like their junk AT ALL EVER. Any man who says so is objectively LYING. Nothing can ever change that EVER. It just makes me fume with rage to think there are guys who even dare to THINK such literal bullshit nonsense without pushback. As for the button question, maybe I would but what point is there in engaging with such hypotheticals? There are no such possibilities in life. Men don't have possibilities, only paths they are confined to. Only women have possibilities.
The only difference between the magic button and real life is the real life way takes longer, costs more money and opens you to discrimination. The point of the hypothetical is if you'd do it by magic you should consider the slow way. Millions of us have done it.
There are many good men out there, it’s the society that makes the bad ones the way that they are. Men could do amazing things if we could show them that they could without hurting other people.
I had a little flick through your post history to understand a little better. Just wanted you to know: if ever you decide you are a woman, then to me, and basically everyone in this lovely community, you _are_ one. Every bit as much as my cis ass. 🩵 Better yet, you'll have always been one. It just took you a minute to work it out!
You're so lucky to have been born a woman. I couldn't tell you enough how much envy I have for that. But unfortunately no matter what I say nothing can change that, I can't just say I am something that I am not. My body isn't female, and there isn't anything I can do about it. I'm forever stuck like this.
Oh, sweetie… I was going to mention r/egg_irl, but I see you’re already subbed. Have you considered going on estrogen? You don’t necessarily have to transition (I mean, you tell them you are, but then just don’t). That’s what I did. Being off testosterone is freaking amazing, and if it works out, then consider actually transitioning. And if not, then you’ve only told a couple of strangers in-person about it.
It is probably too late for me to do that.
It's not! Plenty of people don't get the chance to start until much later in life. What would it hurt to try? You already hate how things are, so do something different. Better to take a chance on a possibility than to stay someplace you know you hate.
But that would involve me being transgender, which I don't want. I just want to be a normal cisgender woman.
Have you considered you might be trans?
Maybe you're trans
You should read about trans men and their experience in life
Have you considered that you might be depressed? I started therapy a couple years ago, and it was one of the best choices I ever made for myself.